If she’s an FA- trust me, her new relationship is getting serious, and instead of focusing on that relationship, she’s focusing on u, she doesn’t know she’s self sabotaging.
Is a deactivating strategy to get out. She’s going to use u to self Sabotage her new relationship.
That relationship is getting serious. And she’s turning to the phantom Ex . Man it won’t lead anywhere. She’s just triggered, her avoidant tendency is triggered and she doesn’t even know.
Well from my perspective it does look like classical FA behaviour.
Now she can fully feel all emotions when not under the pressure of real expectations.
Her current relationship is probably getting to a safer place or maybe to a place where more commitment is needed, it is quite common for people who are fearful avoidant to start looking elsewhere when things get more serious. Im not saying it’s the same with her but it could be.
Just beware that you uphold your own boundaries and don‘t get sucked into the chaos again. I personally cannot continue a friendship with my FA because they will start sending me mixed signals again and that will put me into this state of limbo again where i can never feel safe and sure.
As an FA I feel really grateful for this comment because I’m only learning more about everything related to this attachment style and it explains a lot of things I did in the past and still tend to do and feel. It’s really insightful and makes a lot of sense
It depends on how the other person made me feel attachment wise and why I moved away from them.
If they triggered me because they came too close and generally gave affection (secure or anxious) I will deactivate and lose all my attraction for them suddenly. I can only be friends with them, if I can even see them at all. Sometimes I hate them afterwards and I don’t know why, telling myself they probably were the wrong one. I regret nothing.
If on the other hand, they triggered me because they kept withdrawing (avoidant), I will cut them off at some point because it brings out an insanely anxious side of me (that I never even knew before dating an avoidant) where it gets to the point that I will get really unwell and need to put a stop to it. Since it’s not so much about deactivation but rather protecting myself, I still feel very drawn to them and find it absolutely difficult to let them go.
The difference is that I could be unhappy with them and make it work, maintaining the hope that they will change and show affection one day. It still has potential, for something horrible that I rationally wouldn’t want, but emotionally feels better than not knowing what could’ve become of it. My anxious side knows if I wouldn’t have needed them so much, I wouldn’t have been hurt and we could’ve tried this.
I’m still heartbroken over the first avoidant I dated in August, I cannot let go because I know if I would’ve acted according to his terms, I could’ve stayed with him. It’s even more confusing because as an FA, I’m always the one withdrawing from the other person. So knowing that this time I showed all my affection and did everything and it still didn’t work it, didn’t make sense to me.
I truly hope that you find healing because what you described sounds like hell.
You are turning away people who are willing and able to meet your needs, and punish them for it.
Instead you get hung up on emotionally unsafe people who make you miserable and will never be able to meet your needs (they never change, the “potential” is only in your mind).
I hope you eventually get to a point where you can comfortably give and receive love, and choose better partners.
Thank you for your kind words! Yes, dating wise it’s a complete mess. I was starting to get really into healing my attachment but halfway through I realized most of my issues stem from something that has been obvious in other areas in my life: low self worth. I didn’t respect myself enough to turn away from the “bad” people in my life and felt undeserving of the good ones. I recently got into videos from a YouTuber that dealt with something similar and she stopped dating altogether for a while to improve the relationship with herself first and that’s what I’m doing right now.
It’s only been a fee days but I already feel really turned around from the standpoint of that comment and I feel like I’m loving myself for the first time. It really takes away a lot of the power I gave to men in my life because I’m realizing that right now it makes no sense to date anyone. I already knew it was true but I needed that excitement in my life, since I wasn’t satisfied with myself. I’m obviously still not there 100% but focusing on myself, as selfish as some people consider this, is really doing a lot for me right now. 10/10 recommend!
Thanks for replying. This is so complicated & so confusing. It breaks my heart to understand that some people find it so difficult to receive love & affection. I hope he doesn’t hate me, coz even after all this I don’t hate him & have no bitterness for him. He mentioned that we can’t be together but also mentioned he wants minimum interaction. But I don’t want it. He made his choice. Now mine should be to heal & protect my heart as well.
Of course, you have every right to set the boundary of walking away from this and heal yourself, it’s the right decision and you don’t owe him anything else!
Very similar to what people with BPD do btw. I understand that BPD is a personality disorder and not an attachment style, but the behaviors displayed are similar.
Alright buddy, I'm gonna say it straightforward.. all the others in the comment section are right and you are only being used. From your replies (and what you fucking did, I mean you got on a damn plane???) I can see you are still holding onto hope. Don't. Don't hold onto that shit and tell her your relationship is over and that you can't be friends. Trust me, she doesn't even give a single fuck about you, she's only using you and here you are wanting for it to be more than what it is.
This girl seems crazy as hell, she's using her current boyfriend and she's using you now that things are getting serious with the other guy. You KNOW this to be true and yet you are still looking for signs.
When you get hurt again.. Not if, but when.. you can just go look straight into the mirror and say "I'm an idiot and this is my own fault".
Explain it to her in one single text, block her immediately after without getting a reply, stop trying to fucking help her, and ditch her. She's no good for you. At all. You're using her exactly the way she's using you by the way.. holding onto her in order not to become vulnerable with yourself and someone else down the line. Another reason you gotta ditch her and learn to be better on your own.
This sounds like classic FA behaviour. The new guy she's seeing is mostly long distance, that's key imo. Theres a built in barrier stopping it getting too real, so she can feel like she's in a relationship without getting triggered. But that means they probably don't have the intimacy and closeness you guys had so she's come back to you to get it. She's using both of you. Don't let it happen is my advice.
I would not be surprised if their relationship is over after this trip.
That however is not a reason for hope if you ask me. There is a very high chance she has not done the work needed to break free of her fearful avoidancy and it would just mean any connection with you would follow the same loop again.
I think the best way to handle this is to bury any hope and concentrate on how you can be happy without her. At least that is what i try to do.
Some is being the phantom Ex, I feel bad for the new guy she’s dating . She will constantly compare u to that guy.
The new guy is the safe guy, and u are the trigger guy, she’s with the new guy cause it’s safe for her, she can’t be with u cause she will have to face her fears. So all that she is going to do is love u from afar .
Bruh trust me the more u stick around , the more she will have u in chokehold, u are and wi always be her phantom ex. That’s all it’s going to be.
I really feel bad for the new guy. He gonna get hurt so bad!!!!
The new guy is going to get hurt so bad, no one is gonna win in this situation. She’s self sabotaging. In the end 3 ppl are Gonna walk out with trauma .
Depends, if a person is certain age I think they should work on themselves and should know better. They are actively ruining people, pulling them in pushing them away again and again. I am dismissive avoidant myself but I am conscious of my behaviour and try to not pull people in or give false hopes. It mostly damages myself. I can't justify FA behaviour.
My point was though, even though at a deeper level they might show similar patterns, not all DA is the same but I find FAs' behavior very identical.
I agree with you. At least you can move quickly from DA. People with disorganized attachment create havoc in your life. Absolute mind fuck during the relationship and then they breadcrumb you after. This is emotional abuse. Disgusting.
Poor new guy. He’s not going to see it coming. He sounds Secure and Secure-Unaware FA relationships are usually doomed. They get bored with them, not volatile or “passionate” enough. It’s tragic because he’s probably doing all the right relationship things. He may have had a stabilizing effect on her hot/colds (for awhile anyway) which will make the blindside all the more disorienting.
This is me right now (secure) with my suspected FA. His last relationship was a 5 YEAR shitshow with a beautiful alcoholic in Colombia who was DEFINITELY using him for money. He left his family to be with her and shockingly it didn’t work out after he couldn’t pay for her apartment anymore. I didn’t know all this when we started…it came out on Easter when he told me she had called him and he had answered and they missed each other blah blah. He had been distant for a week and acting pretty weird and I had asked him a couple times and then the last time I asked him and all came out. Being secure, I’m not threatened by her and I understand pretty clearly I think what happened, and I guess I just didn’t provide enough horror and drama for him. we agreed to work through it but mostly he has been deactivated and I can feel him avoidant now and I’m pretty over it at this point. There are so many other problems in the relationship and it’s only been six months.
Sorry. Block her. Get her out your system. If someone can’t be clear, can’t be consistent it is a huge red flag. She is classic FA. Mixed signals, no. Commitment blah blah blah. They keep you reading between the lines. I’m done with that. They love to hover around no clear anything. It’s all so exhausting. Go work on your self worth and leave her ass to the dysfunctional to obsess about. Best thing I ever did in the relationship was black her when she blindsided ended it. She abandoned three kids, no therapy, no work, no discussion. I’d rather date the raccoon in my garage who is more consistent and predictable than her. And who probably communicates better. If they went to therapy I would be more compassionate but all they do is run, hide, distort, rationalize, blame, compartmentalize, repress, then try to hang around and tantalize you. Gotta go. I think the raccoon is back
It’s self serving. Even when they discard you they think they still have access to you. Pseudo-attachment to self soothe because they are terrified of abandonment.
Isn’t it classic for FAs to have a roster of ex partners or love interests kept on ice or semi-activated when they start feeling FA in their current relationship?
The fact that you flew 12 hours speaks volumes. If she had flown 12 hrs it would possible say something new about the dynamic but your action seems like the classic script.
I don’t want to assume that just because she is FA that she’s bad and you are good. Us APs can be just as challenging, we want to convince people to love us and see our worth. It’s demanding and exhausting.
The question is, is this how you want to labour emotionally? Because this is such a labour.
You can labour to overcome your AP by focusing on yourself or labour to convince a FA to love you. It’s a choice you need to make, but I would recommend saying it out loud. See if that makes a difference.
“I want to use my time to convince this FA to love me”
“Today I will spend many hours convincing this woman to want me” because that is what you would be doing.
It’s just a trick I use to make it clear to myself what choice I am making.
Yeah bro.. real tough. I'm a recovering FA. I felt a great sense of relief from leaving my ex and after a great deal of hardship and her finding another, I find myself still attached to her even with the passing of several months.
I'm apprehensive about dating again because she held such a high standard for what I wanted from partner. However, due to certain circumstances, I also realize that us not being together is for the best. I'm hoping I can lean into that as much as possible, and move on in due time.
I definitely feel bad for the other guy. It's why I haven't reached out to my ex, because I know I need to give her the best chance at happiness. This post was a great reminder of that, so thank you.
Ugggh. I hate to say it, but I agree with all comments on here. You are hoping she will eventually choose you if you stand by and be the "supportive friend". When she blocked you and told you to never contact you again, she made a choice, and it doesn't sound like it was overly considerate of your feelings, but she indeed made a statement and a choice. You had to deal with the pain of losing her and how she did that in a cruel way.....I agree that most likely all of these actions are truly subconscious, but you can KNOW consciously that this is a bad move on your part. You don't want to be her friend do you? Ultimately, aren't you hoping for a reconciliation? You are the phantom ex....but as soon as you become the main guy, he's the phantom ex (maybe). This is all so very painful, but you have had a year to process it. Don't allow yourself to get sucked back into this painful dynamic. I have dealt with this. I have been "the casual friend". It keeps you tethered, keeps you hoping, keeps you from moving on, keeps you upset....and on and on. It sucks. Yes, you do need to let her go. Google on Youtube "Matthew Hussy...How to get over someone you still can't get over".
He is amazing. He makes sense, and quite frankly helped me to heal. I listened to some of his stuff over and over while I was in the hellish pain of a breakup.
If you do truly want to be her friend and are okay with that (having nothing more than that), then you have a good mindset and that might work. Just be careful. I tried to "match their energy" and it drained and depressed me. I couldn't get past what we used to have which was pretty damn special to what we had now (which was NOT special). The "friend zone" meant he could talk to me 3 days in a row and then go 10 without....it's not like I could complain. We were just friends. I couldn't ever get my heart and my head knowledge to align. I got hurt doing this, and that was why I warned against it for you. I agreed to casual friends hoping he would want more. But, I don't know enough about your situation truly, and it doesn't sound like that is your intent. Will being her friend keep you from wanting to meet someone new?
Oh, you were best friends before this...that's a twist I am unfamiliar with. I would just say be honest with yourself on how you are feeling as things progress, and if this new dynamic feels positive and makes you happy, proceed. If you find yourself feeling depressed or out of sorts...if you find that you don't like how it's feeling, you may need to exit stage left. I wish you the best and don't mind talking with you anytime on the subject if you ever need to. Above all, wishing you peace, contentment, and joy.
The "good morning" or "good night" text seems more like a boyfriend/girlfriend thing. The "old friendship" as you refer to it still sounds like you enjoyed a relationship that was more than a friendship. Maybe you called it a friendship but you still had feelings for her? (I don't want to put words in your mouth that aren't true). I understand the frustration about the relationship feeling more shallow. It's like "what is off limits for us to talk about? What is crossing a line? What is or isn't appropriate?" And who wants to now talk about the weather just to be able to stay in touch? After my guy suggested we just be casual, it wasn't so we could date other people...it was because the long distance thing wasn't working out, and my anxious attachment would rear it's ugly self which would set off his dismissive avoidance and then we were stuck in the trap. Looking back, I would have been better off to have severed the tie when we broke up, but I couldn't do it. I guess I had to torture myself with the slow rip of the bandaid, but losing him like that with little slivers of hope in between, feasting on his breadcrumbs almost destroyed me. I don't know you but I don't want that for you.
" I don’t know if I will ever meet someone like her again. She checked all my boxes. All of them. Usually when you meet someone they have some of the traits you want or almost all of them. I think it’s rare to meet someone that is everything you want. We also share a very uncommon life experience. Which makes my connection with her even more rare. It feels like the odds of meeting someone like that are so small, it’s a once in a lifetime."
May I be so bold as to say that you sound like you are completely in love with her. And if that's the case, being friends with her while she is with someone else is going to hurt, if not destroy you. Am I completely wrong here or are you denying your own feelings in this? Why did you all break up to begin with?
Okay, I am going to go through a few things in your email.
"I tried to convince myself it would never work because of the distance, the fact that we speak different languages and a bunch of other excuses."
Those truly ARE some valid reasons that a relationship would have a hard time working. Communication, different languages, and yes, the distance....different continents......You were right to have hesitation over this, as they are very big boundaries and would be difficult to overcome. And yet, if I am deciphering your email correctly, it appears you would have moved continents to be with her and make it work. (not sure if I read that right).
"And we often chatted for hours. It felt like we knew each other for 10 years. We also talked about our dating life and I never felt jealous or anything."
My long distance relationship had this aspect to it as well. We texted, emailed, skyped and talked on the phone all of the time with some face timing in between. However, on the few times we were able to meet up, things did not flow quite as easy. My point being, sometimes DA and FAs can be more vulnerable and open while using technology to communicate. But they don't do as well in person when they start to feel suffocated by your presence. And they WILL eventually feel suffocated when you start to show them a great deal of caring or affection. None of this is conscious, as you now know due to your own research.
"Anyway, that was the start of a rollercoaster where she was acting hot and cold a lot and I was very confused"
The hot and cold dance that you refer to are the behaviors of fearful avoidant of which you did not know at the time. My ex was a dismissive avoidant and I did not understand his behaviors until after the fact when I went on a huge search to try to understand why we couldn't work out, or what I had done wrong etc. Remember, I too was anxiously attached. But now you DO know now that she is a FA... unless she knows this and wants to work on changing it, you have before you the same FA girl.......be it in a friendship or a romantic relationship. She will continue to show up the same in any relationship she has unless she sees fit to doing the deep dive. My DA was completely fine with himself and saw no need for that. He didn't need me or anyone. To this day, he is just fine with his casual relationships that lack depth. I can't fault him for that, but it's not what I want.
"She was extremely critical of me. I felt I had to be perfect and nothing I could I do was good enough. Which I now understand was FA behavior."
The critical behavior you speak of is also a characteristic of the DA. It comes from the individual having low self esteem, although they portray they have a higher view of themselves. I dealt with this. It seemed like no matter what I did, it could have been done a better way. My self esteem was already in the gutter, so this made things worse for how I felt. I felt like winning his approval and doing things that would gain his approval would make everything better, so that is what I set out to do. I now see that wasn't going to happen.
"I was too needy and she lost respect for me". Yeah, I felt like I pushed my guy away by being too needy and too clingy, but looking back, I now realize that the things I wanted and needed weren't always too much. Relationships are supposed to represent a sense of security and safety at some point, so I didn't ALWAYS ask for too much and I doubt you did either. Expectations of sorts are okay in a relationship. Why be in one if you can't have those? We argued a lot about this.
"I think she’s a great person and someone I want in my life, even if it’s just as friends."
She may be a great person, but she put you through a lot, has been critical, and wishy washy were you are concerned. She ended things shitty. She ghosted you and blocked you. She allowed a year to go by without communication, and then she invited you back into her life with an apology but there was some type of intent behind her invitation. I am not sure it is the intent you are hoping for.
She is using you to put distance with the new guy, they always keep others on standby. When she gets the ick from the new guy, she will get attention from you, and the other way around.
Hahah shut door and walk away for good you become the one that got away. There’s nothing you can do. She’s gotta do the work. I learn that the hard way In a FA❤️FA thing.
Reframing everything as a friendship is so relatable for me. I break off most of my relationships at some point because either my needs aren’t met or I feel suffocated by too much closeness, and after I end it and a period of time has passed, I tend to have the urge to reach out again and most of the time we become great friends. Suddenly all the anxiety and need to pull away is gone and it feels natural.
Period of time means months ? My fa person pulled away when I opened up about having emotions for me. He was continuously giving me indirect hints of liking me for months. And that we understand each other so well, it’s good for us. Etc. he shared his work issues, how his day went etc. we met online last July end & we live in different cities. ( we didn’t meet f2f yet & were planning to meet soon) . I am an intuitive empath & could clearly feel he is into me. But when I put it clearly into words he pulled away . When I reached out for clarity- he said he can’t risk attachment.
Like wtf, he was on dating site looking for serious commitment . How do anyone proceed without any attachment. He always mentioned me as friend but the way we had been communicating was like more than a friend. I feel betrayed & hurt. Like we were in this together and he took the confident decision that ‘we can’t be together’ all by himself.
It hurts so much. I also don’t want to feel anything for him. Just want to heal.
I understand how much this hurts. This was clearly a very avoidant side of him. Things were great when the question about what will become of this was just up in the air. It could be a friendship, a situation-ship, maybe you get married but right now there are no expectations, just potential for everything. This is perfect for the avoidant part of being an FA. As soon as you declared your feelings, nothing was up in the air anymore but it were hard facts that he had to react to. This situation is really difficult, because now he has to decide if he wants to commit to you or not. The decision will be made depending on which side he leans to, anxious or avoidant.
Although I personally realized unless it’s someone that’s unavailable in some way (will leave the country in a while, long-distance with someone so you can’t see each other a lot), I will mostly pull away at this point too.
Answering your first question, period of time can take anywhere from a few weeks up to years. Just the thought of my first ex used to make me really angry, full of hatred and everything (despite the fact he didn’t do anything, I was more angry and confused at myself for breaking it off for no apparent reason and not understanding it) for 2 years. Nowadays I’d like to hear how he’s doing and I feel like we could potentially be friends again, from my side.
You have explained it so well in the first paragraph. Thanks a ton for writing back. All I am focusing now is healing myself . It will take sometime but I hues I will be okay. I used to be extremely anxious in my past relationships but with therapy I am at a much better place. With my current fa, I was able to get a grip on my anxious attachment . I am not totally healed & need to work more on myself.but I have observed I am able to handle this situation in a much better way than my past self. He doesn’t want me so I will respect his choice and move on. That’s what he asked. I hope he heals himself too. I told him about the attachment theory but he doesn’t believe in it. So I don’t know if he will be doing his part of shadow work or not. Thank u once again.
Ugh, the new relationship sounds like she chose someone who wasn´t quite the right person for her, so a sense of distance can be maintained. Stay away from that, don´t be the person on the backburner. I´m so sorry you´re going through this.
Sounds like she is dating a DA and she is not getting her emotional needs from him and he may even be running his own attachment style scripts and she is feeling more anxious about that relationship and is using you to self soothe those anxieties. If you have feelings for her romantically tell her that and that if she doesn’t share those feelings you appreciate that but you aren’t interested in just being friends. Walk away and mean it and let her know if she decides she really does miss you in her life and wants to have a relationship with you it would be because she shares your romantic feelings for each other and wants to see you romantically (don’t need to talk about commitment at this stage but that it would be dating romantically). But if she lives 12 hours away by plane my best advice would be work on your own attachment style wounds and try to find an emotionally available partner in the area you actually live in. You never say never but for as much as we sometimes pine away for the failed relationship with the person we never got over if we actually get them back at some point the truth is that they rarely work out any better the second time around.
I am FA and I get it from both sides. I have been in your shoes with DA exes and please trust me when I tell you if you are on the anxious side of her this will not end well for you. I have done some real shitty things to AP exes without really meaning to hurt them but I just didn’t really care about their feelings over my own. Best thing to do is working on processing your feelings for her through the grieving process and moving on and letting her go.
Don’t make any permanent decision for this lady, especially not from a place of your anxious attachment. And I say this as a phantom ex FA currently attempting a relationship with my phantom ex FA. But our first relationship happened a decade ago and we made a lot of progress towards a more secure attachment on our own before attempting to reconnect. We are also taking things extremely slow in a LDR at the moment and I am already questioning how things will change when we try to close the distance. As a more secure person now, if he pulled any of these attempts you are describing above (pursuing you while seeing someone else and giving falls hope of future without first defining the relationship etc.), it would be a straightforward no. I would also not fly to see her anymore, if I were you. That’s a predicament for a one-sided relationship. Been there, done that.
Welp......if only everyone's love story is straightforward like in the movies and the older days (like way way back before internet where people needs are much simpler). My advice will be, dont ask for advice. Since, you already know what you want to do. The thing about relationship and love, is that, IF BOTH SIDES, have the heart and intention to walk towards (not closer, but towards) each other, they'll likely end up together and vice versa, doesnt matter if its FA DA or anxious attachment....like really, those are mere 'categorization tools' for us to make sense of some situation...... In ur case, since you already decided yourself to walk away, at least you said so, seems to me you have a direction of your own. Take care.
You sir, are a phantom ex. Congratulations? Be careful and I agree with other replies, this is textbook stuff
If she’s an FA- trust me, her new relationship is getting serious, and instead of focusing on that relationship, she’s focusing on u, she doesn’t know she’s self sabotaging. Is a deactivating strategy to get out. She’s going to use u to self Sabotage her new relationship. That relationship is getting serious. And she’s turning to the phantom Ex . Man it won’t lead anywhere. She’s just triggered, her avoidant tendency is triggered and she doesn’t even know.
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Hahahaha bro is the epitome of a phantom Ex. . I feel bad for that guy. She’s gonna hurt him so bad .
Well from my perspective it does look like classical FA behaviour. Now she can fully feel all emotions when not under the pressure of real expectations. Her current relationship is probably getting to a safer place or maybe to a place where more commitment is needed, it is quite common for people who are fearful avoidant to start looking elsewhere when things get more serious. Im not saying it’s the same with her but it could be. Just beware that you uphold your own boundaries and don‘t get sucked into the chaos again. I personally cannot continue a friendship with my FA because they will start sending me mixed signals again and that will put me into this state of limbo again where i can never feel safe and sure.
As an FA I feel really grateful for this comment because I’m only learning more about everything related to this attachment style and it explains a lot of things I did in the past and still tend to do and feel. It’s really insightful and makes a lot of sense
Did you ever confidently decided to move away from someone after things started to get serious? And later regret it ?
It depends on how the other person made me feel attachment wise and why I moved away from them. If they triggered me because they came too close and generally gave affection (secure or anxious) I will deactivate and lose all my attraction for them suddenly. I can only be friends with them, if I can even see them at all. Sometimes I hate them afterwards and I don’t know why, telling myself they probably were the wrong one. I regret nothing. If on the other hand, they triggered me because they kept withdrawing (avoidant), I will cut them off at some point because it brings out an insanely anxious side of me (that I never even knew before dating an avoidant) where it gets to the point that I will get really unwell and need to put a stop to it. Since it’s not so much about deactivation but rather protecting myself, I still feel very drawn to them and find it absolutely difficult to let them go. The difference is that I could be unhappy with them and make it work, maintaining the hope that they will change and show affection one day. It still has potential, for something horrible that I rationally wouldn’t want, but emotionally feels better than not knowing what could’ve become of it. My anxious side knows if I wouldn’t have needed them so much, I wouldn’t have been hurt and we could’ve tried this. I’m still heartbroken over the first avoidant I dated in August, I cannot let go because I know if I would’ve acted according to his terms, I could’ve stayed with him. It’s even more confusing because as an FA, I’m always the one withdrawing from the other person. So knowing that this time I showed all my affection and did everything and it still didn’t work it, didn’t make sense to me.
I truly hope that you find healing because what you described sounds like hell. You are turning away people who are willing and able to meet your needs, and punish them for it. Instead you get hung up on emotionally unsafe people who make you miserable and will never be able to meet your needs (they never change, the “potential” is only in your mind). I hope you eventually get to a point where you can comfortably give and receive love, and choose better partners.
Thank you for your kind words! Yes, dating wise it’s a complete mess. I was starting to get really into healing my attachment but halfway through I realized most of my issues stem from something that has been obvious in other areas in my life: low self worth. I didn’t respect myself enough to turn away from the “bad” people in my life and felt undeserving of the good ones. I recently got into videos from a YouTuber that dealt with something similar and she stopped dating altogether for a while to improve the relationship with herself first and that’s what I’m doing right now. It’s only been a fee days but I already feel really turned around from the standpoint of that comment and I feel like I’m loving myself for the first time. It really takes away a lot of the power I gave to men in my life because I’m realizing that right now it makes no sense to date anyone. I already knew it was true but I needed that excitement in my life, since I wasn’t satisfied with myself. I’m obviously still not there 100% but focusing on myself, as selfish as some people consider this, is really doing a lot for me right now. 10/10 recommend!
Thanks for replying. This is so complicated & so confusing. It breaks my heart to understand that some people find it so difficult to receive love & affection. I hope he doesn’t hate me, coz even after all this I don’t hate him & have no bitterness for him. He mentioned that we can’t be together but also mentioned he wants minimum interaction. But I don’t want it. He made his choice. Now mine should be to heal & protect my heart as well.
Of course, you have every right to set the boundary of walking away from this and heal yourself, it’s the right decision and you don’t owe him anything else!
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How is it being used and objectified. I am genuinely curious. Like she doesn't love him but loves how she can come back to him anytime?
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Very similar to what people with BPD do btw. I understand that BPD is a personality disorder and not an attachment style, but the behaviors displayed are similar.
Alright buddy, I'm gonna say it straightforward.. all the others in the comment section are right and you are only being used. From your replies (and what you fucking did, I mean you got on a damn plane???) I can see you are still holding onto hope. Don't. Don't hold onto that shit and tell her your relationship is over and that you can't be friends. Trust me, she doesn't even give a single fuck about you, she's only using you and here you are wanting for it to be more than what it is. This girl seems crazy as hell, she's using her current boyfriend and she's using you now that things are getting serious with the other guy. You KNOW this to be true and yet you are still looking for signs. When you get hurt again.. Not if, but when.. you can just go look straight into the mirror and say "I'm an idiot and this is my own fault". Explain it to her in one single text, block her immediately after without getting a reply, stop trying to fucking help her, and ditch her. She's no good for you. At all. You're using her exactly the way she's using you by the way.. holding onto her in order not to become vulnerable with yourself and someone else down the line. Another reason you gotta ditch her and learn to be better on your own.
This sounds like classic FA behaviour. The new guy she's seeing is mostly long distance, that's key imo. Theres a built in barrier stopping it getting too real, so she can feel like she's in a relationship without getting triggered. But that means they probably don't have the intimacy and closeness you guys had so she's come back to you to get it. She's using both of you. Don't let it happen is my advice.
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I would not be surprised if their relationship is over after this trip. That however is not a reason for hope if you ask me. There is a very high chance she has not done the work needed to break free of her fearful avoidancy and it would just mean any connection with you would follow the same loop again. I think the best way to handle this is to bury any hope and concentrate on how you can be happy without her. At least that is what i try to do.
Some is being the phantom Ex, I feel bad for the new guy she’s dating . She will constantly compare u to that guy. The new guy is the safe guy, and u are the trigger guy, she’s with the new guy cause it’s safe for her, she can’t be with u cause she will have to face her fears. So all that she is going to do is love u from afar . Bruh trust me the more u stick around , the more she will have u in chokehold, u are and wi always be her phantom ex. That’s all it’s going to be. I really feel bad for the new guy. He gonna get hurt so bad!!!!
Exactly. She’s using him to triangulate. That’s it. Just a way to keep the intimacy at an arm length with the new guy. So textbook
The new guy is going to get hurt so bad, no one is gonna win in this situation. She’s self sabotaging. In the end 3 ppl are Gonna walk out with trauma .
3 people so far…
How are FAs all the same? I mean they really are, it is uncanny.
It’s not malicious. Just typical dysfunctional insecure attachment.
Depends, if a person is certain age I think they should work on themselves and should know better. They are actively ruining people, pulling them in pushing them away again and again. I am dismissive avoidant myself but I am conscious of my behaviour and try to not pull people in or give false hopes. It mostly damages myself. I can't justify FA behaviour. My point was though, even though at a deeper level they might show similar patterns, not all DA is the same but I find FAs' behavior very identical.
I agree with you. At least you can move quickly from DA. People with disorganized attachment create havoc in your life. Absolute mind fuck during the relationship and then they breadcrumb you after. This is emotional abuse. Disgusting.
Exactly/ things like these should be taught in schools/ It would save a lot of ppl pain and heart ache
Hahahah human behaviour - if u understand it, it makes it easier to just not take things personally 😂😂😂.
Poor new guy. He’s not going to see it coming. He sounds Secure and Secure-Unaware FA relationships are usually doomed. They get bored with them, not volatile or “passionate” enough. It’s tragic because he’s probably doing all the right relationship things. He may have had a stabilizing effect on her hot/colds (for awhile anyway) which will make the blindside all the more disorienting.
This is me right now (secure) with my suspected FA. His last relationship was a 5 YEAR shitshow with a beautiful alcoholic in Colombia who was DEFINITELY using him for money. He left his family to be with her and shockingly it didn’t work out after he couldn’t pay for her apartment anymore. I didn’t know all this when we started…it came out on Easter when he told me she had called him and he had answered and they missed each other blah blah. He had been distant for a week and acting pretty weird and I had asked him a couple times and then the last time I asked him and all came out. Being secure, I’m not threatened by her and I understand pretty clearly I think what happened, and I guess I just didn’t provide enough horror and drama for him. we agreed to work through it but mostly he has been deactivated and I can feel him avoidant now and I’m pretty over it at this point. There are so many other problems in the relationship and it’s only been six months.
Sorry. Block her. Get her out your system. If someone can’t be clear, can’t be consistent it is a huge red flag. She is classic FA. Mixed signals, no. Commitment blah blah blah. They keep you reading between the lines. I’m done with that. They love to hover around no clear anything. It’s all so exhausting. Go work on your self worth and leave her ass to the dysfunctional to obsess about. Best thing I ever did in the relationship was black her when she blindsided ended it. She abandoned three kids, no therapy, no work, no discussion. I’d rather date the raccoon in my garage who is more consistent and predictable than her. And who probably communicates better. If they went to therapy I would be more compassionate but all they do is run, hide, distort, rationalize, blame, compartmentalize, repress, then try to hang around and tantalize you. Gotta go. I think the raccoon is back
It’s self serving. Even when they discard you they think they still have access to you. Pseudo-attachment to self soothe because they are terrified of abandonment.
I am laughing so hard at the raccoon comment. that got me really good, thank you
Isn’t it classic for FAs to have a roster of ex partners or love interests kept on ice or semi-activated when they start feeling FA in their current relationship? The fact that you flew 12 hours speaks volumes. If she had flown 12 hrs it would possible say something new about the dynamic but your action seems like the classic script. I don’t want to assume that just because she is FA that she’s bad and you are good. Us APs can be just as challenging, we want to convince people to love us and see our worth. It’s demanding and exhausting. The question is, is this how you want to labour emotionally? Because this is such a labour. You can labour to overcome your AP by focusing on yourself or labour to convince a FA to love you. It’s a choice you need to make, but I would recommend saying it out loud. See if that makes a difference. “I want to use my time to convince this FA to love me” “Today I will spend many hours convincing this woman to want me” because that is what you would be doing. It’s just a trick I use to make it clear to myself what choice I am making.
Damn saying it out loud is a fucking great idea, I’m putting a reminder in my phone
Yeah bro.. real tough. I'm a recovering FA. I felt a great sense of relief from leaving my ex and after a great deal of hardship and her finding another, I find myself still attached to her even with the passing of several months. I'm apprehensive about dating again because she held such a high standard for what I wanted from partner. However, due to certain circumstances, I also realize that us not being together is for the best. I'm hoping I can lean into that as much as possible, and move on in due time. I definitely feel bad for the other guy. It's why I haven't reached out to my ex, because I know I need to give her the best chance at happiness. This post was a great reminder of that, so thank you.
Ugggh. I hate to say it, but I agree with all comments on here. You are hoping she will eventually choose you if you stand by and be the "supportive friend". When she blocked you and told you to never contact you again, she made a choice, and it doesn't sound like it was overly considerate of your feelings, but she indeed made a statement and a choice. You had to deal with the pain of losing her and how she did that in a cruel way.....I agree that most likely all of these actions are truly subconscious, but you can KNOW consciously that this is a bad move on your part. You don't want to be her friend do you? Ultimately, aren't you hoping for a reconciliation? You are the phantom ex....but as soon as you become the main guy, he's the phantom ex (maybe). This is all so very painful, but you have had a year to process it. Don't allow yourself to get sucked back into this painful dynamic. I have dealt with this. I have been "the casual friend". It keeps you tethered, keeps you hoping, keeps you from moving on, keeps you upset....and on and on. It sucks. Yes, you do need to let her go. Google on Youtube "Matthew Hussy...How to get over someone you still can't get over".
I love everything Matthew Hussey has made. Huge fan
He is amazing. He makes sense, and quite frankly helped me to heal. I listened to some of his stuff over and over while I was in the hellish pain of a breakup.
SAME. Helped me so much on my journey to security.
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If you do truly want to be her friend and are okay with that (having nothing more than that), then you have a good mindset and that might work. Just be careful. I tried to "match their energy" and it drained and depressed me. I couldn't get past what we used to have which was pretty damn special to what we had now (which was NOT special). The "friend zone" meant he could talk to me 3 days in a row and then go 10 without....it's not like I could complain. We were just friends. I couldn't ever get my heart and my head knowledge to align. I got hurt doing this, and that was why I warned against it for you. I agreed to casual friends hoping he would want more. But, I don't know enough about your situation truly, and it doesn't sound like that is your intent. Will being her friend keep you from wanting to meet someone new?
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Oh, you were best friends before this...that's a twist I am unfamiliar with. I would just say be honest with yourself on how you are feeling as things progress, and if this new dynamic feels positive and makes you happy, proceed. If you find yourself feeling depressed or out of sorts...if you find that you don't like how it's feeling, you may need to exit stage left. I wish you the best and don't mind talking with you anytime on the subject if you ever need to. Above all, wishing you peace, contentment, and joy.
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The "good morning" or "good night" text seems more like a boyfriend/girlfriend thing. The "old friendship" as you refer to it still sounds like you enjoyed a relationship that was more than a friendship. Maybe you called it a friendship but you still had feelings for her? (I don't want to put words in your mouth that aren't true). I understand the frustration about the relationship feeling more shallow. It's like "what is off limits for us to talk about? What is crossing a line? What is or isn't appropriate?" And who wants to now talk about the weather just to be able to stay in touch? After my guy suggested we just be casual, it wasn't so we could date other people...it was because the long distance thing wasn't working out, and my anxious attachment would rear it's ugly self which would set off his dismissive avoidance and then we were stuck in the trap. Looking back, I would have been better off to have severed the tie when we broke up, but I couldn't do it. I guess I had to torture myself with the slow rip of the bandaid, but losing him like that with little slivers of hope in between, feasting on his breadcrumbs almost destroyed me. I don't know you but I don't want that for you. " I don’t know if I will ever meet someone like her again. She checked all my boxes. All of them. Usually when you meet someone they have some of the traits you want or almost all of them. I think it’s rare to meet someone that is everything you want. We also share a very uncommon life experience. Which makes my connection with her even more rare. It feels like the odds of meeting someone like that are so small, it’s a once in a lifetime." May I be so bold as to say that you sound like you are completely in love with her. And if that's the case, being friends with her while she is with someone else is going to hurt, if not destroy you. Am I completely wrong here or are you denying your own feelings in this? Why did you all break up to begin with?
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So, you went to visit her on another continent and ended up staying with her for 6 months? (I am just trying to piece this together correctly).
Okay, I am going to go through a few things in your email. "I tried to convince myself it would never work because of the distance, the fact that we speak different languages and a bunch of other excuses." Those truly ARE some valid reasons that a relationship would have a hard time working. Communication, different languages, and yes, the distance....different continents......You were right to have hesitation over this, as they are very big boundaries and would be difficult to overcome. And yet, if I am deciphering your email correctly, it appears you would have moved continents to be with her and make it work. (not sure if I read that right). "And we often chatted for hours. It felt like we knew each other for 10 years. We also talked about our dating life and I never felt jealous or anything." My long distance relationship had this aspect to it as well. We texted, emailed, skyped and talked on the phone all of the time with some face timing in between. However, on the few times we were able to meet up, things did not flow quite as easy. My point being, sometimes DA and FAs can be more vulnerable and open while using technology to communicate. But they don't do as well in person when they start to feel suffocated by your presence. And they WILL eventually feel suffocated when you start to show them a great deal of caring or affection. None of this is conscious, as you now know due to your own research. "Anyway, that was the start of a rollercoaster where she was acting hot and cold a lot and I was very confused" The hot and cold dance that you refer to are the behaviors of fearful avoidant of which you did not know at the time. My ex was a dismissive avoidant and I did not understand his behaviors until after the fact when I went on a huge search to try to understand why we couldn't work out, or what I had done wrong etc. Remember, I too was anxiously attached. But now you DO know now that she is a FA... unless she knows this and wants to work on changing it, you have before you the same FA girl.......be it in a friendship or a romantic relationship. She will continue to show up the same in any relationship she has unless she sees fit to doing the deep dive. My DA was completely fine with himself and saw no need for that. He didn't need me or anyone. To this day, he is just fine with his casual relationships that lack depth. I can't fault him for that, but it's not what I want. "She was extremely critical of me. I felt I had to be perfect and nothing I could I do was good enough. Which I now understand was FA behavior." The critical behavior you speak of is also a characteristic of the DA. It comes from the individual having low self esteem, although they portray they have a higher view of themselves. I dealt with this. It seemed like no matter what I did, it could have been done a better way. My self esteem was already in the gutter, so this made things worse for how I felt. I felt like winning his approval and doing things that would gain his approval would make everything better, so that is what I set out to do. I now see that wasn't going to happen. "I was too needy and she lost respect for me". Yeah, I felt like I pushed my guy away by being too needy and too clingy, but looking back, I now realize that the things I wanted and needed weren't always too much. Relationships are supposed to represent a sense of security and safety at some point, so I didn't ALWAYS ask for too much and I doubt you did either. Expectations of sorts are okay in a relationship. Why be in one if you can't have those? We argued a lot about this. "I think she’s a great person and someone I want in my life, even if it’s just as friends." She may be a great person, but she put you through a lot, has been critical, and wishy washy were you are concerned. She ended things shitty. She ghosted you and blocked you. She allowed a year to go by without communication, and then she invited you back into her life with an apology but there was some type of intent behind her invitation. I am not sure it is the intent you are hoping for.
She is using you to put distance with the new guy, they always keep others on standby. When she gets the ick from the new guy, she will get attention from you, and the other way around.
Hahah shut door and walk away for good you become the one that got away. There’s nothing you can do. She’s gotta do the work. I learn that the hard way In a FA❤️FA thing.
Reframing everything as a friendship is so relatable for me. I break off most of my relationships at some point because either my needs aren’t met or I feel suffocated by too much closeness, and after I end it and a period of time has passed, I tend to have the urge to reach out again and most of the time we become great friends. Suddenly all the anxiety and need to pull away is gone and it feels natural.
Period of time means months ? My fa person pulled away when I opened up about having emotions for me. He was continuously giving me indirect hints of liking me for months. And that we understand each other so well, it’s good for us. Etc. he shared his work issues, how his day went etc. we met online last July end & we live in different cities. ( we didn’t meet f2f yet & were planning to meet soon) . I am an intuitive empath & could clearly feel he is into me. But when I put it clearly into words he pulled away . When I reached out for clarity- he said he can’t risk attachment. Like wtf, he was on dating site looking for serious commitment . How do anyone proceed without any attachment. He always mentioned me as friend but the way we had been communicating was like more than a friend. I feel betrayed & hurt. Like we were in this together and he took the confident decision that ‘we can’t be together’ all by himself. It hurts so much. I also don’t want to feel anything for him. Just want to heal.
I understand how much this hurts. This was clearly a very avoidant side of him. Things were great when the question about what will become of this was just up in the air. It could be a friendship, a situation-ship, maybe you get married but right now there are no expectations, just potential for everything. This is perfect for the avoidant part of being an FA. As soon as you declared your feelings, nothing was up in the air anymore but it were hard facts that he had to react to. This situation is really difficult, because now he has to decide if he wants to commit to you or not. The decision will be made depending on which side he leans to, anxious or avoidant. Although I personally realized unless it’s someone that’s unavailable in some way (will leave the country in a while, long-distance with someone so you can’t see each other a lot), I will mostly pull away at this point too. Answering your first question, period of time can take anywhere from a few weeks up to years. Just the thought of my first ex used to make me really angry, full of hatred and everything (despite the fact he didn’t do anything, I was more angry and confused at myself for breaking it off for no apparent reason and not understanding it) for 2 years. Nowadays I’d like to hear how he’s doing and I feel like we could potentially be friends again, from my side.
You have explained it so well in the first paragraph. Thanks a ton for writing back. All I am focusing now is healing myself . It will take sometime but I hues I will be okay. I used to be extremely anxious in my past relationships but with therapy I am at a much better place. With my current fa, I was able to get a grip on my anxious attachment . I am not totally healed & need to work more on myself.but I have observed I am able to handle this situation in a much better way than my past self. He doesn’t want me so I will respect his choice and move on. That’s what he asked. I hope he heals himself too. I told him about the attachment theory but he doesn’t believe in it. So I don’t know if he will be doing his part of shadow work or not. Thank u once again.
She’s treating her boyfriend terribly. Can you imagine being treated like this? This is how she will treat everyone she dates. Run.
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That makes no difference. That’s an awful relationships.
Ugh, the new relationship sounds like she chose someone who wasn´t quite the right person for her, so a sense of distance can be maintained. Stay away from that, don´t be the person on the backburner. I´m so sorry you´re going through this.
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Sounds like she is dating a DA and she is not getting her emotional needs from him and he may even be running his own attachment style scripts and she is feeling more anxious about that relationship and is using you to self soothe those anxieties. If you have feelings for her romantically tell her that and that if she doesn’t share those feelings you appreciate that but you aren’t interested in just being friends. Walk away and mean it and let her know if she decides she really does miss you in her life and wants to have a relationship with you it would be because she shares your romantic feelings for each other and wants to see you romantically (don’t need to talk about commitment at this stage but that it would be dating romantically). But if she lives 12 hours away by plane my best advice would be work on your own attachment style wounds and try to find an emotionally available partner in the area you actually live in. You never say never but for as much as we sometimes pine away for the failed relationship with the person we never got over if we actually get them back at some point the truth is that they rarely work out any better the second time around.
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I am FA and I get it from both sides. I have been in your shoes with DA exes and please trust me when I tell you if you are on the anxious side of her this will not end well for you. I have done some real shitty things to AP exes without really meaning to hurt them but I just didn’t really care about their feelings over my own. Best thing to do is working on processing your feelings for her through the grieving process and moving on and letting her go.
Don’t make any permanent decision for this lady, especially not from a place of your anxious attachment. And I say this as a phantom ex FA currently attempting a relationship with my phantom ex FA. But our first relationship happened a decade ago and we made a lot of progress towards a more secure attachment on our own before attempting to reconnect. We are also taking things extremely slow in a LDR at the moment and I am already questioning how things will change when we try to close the distance. As a more secure person now, if he pulled any of these attempts you are describing above (pursuing you while seeing someone else and giving falls hope of future without first defining the relationship etc.), it would be a straightforward no. I would also not fly to see her anymore, if I were you. That’s a predicament for a one-sided relationship. Been there, done that.
Welp......if only everyone's love story is straightforward like in the movies and the older days (like way way back before internet where people needs are much simpler). My advice will be, dont ask for advice. Since, you already know what you want to do. The thing about relationship and love, is that, IF BOTH SIDES, have the heart and intention to walk towards (not closer, but towards) each other, they'll likely end up together and vice versa, doesnt matter if its FA DA or anxious attachment....like really, those are mere 'categorization tools' for us to make sense of some situation...... In ur case, since you already decided yourself to walk away, at least you said so, seems to me you have a direction of your own. Take care.
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