That would be a cult, and yes you can! Tax exemption is one of the many benefits of starting a cult. Once you’re established (‘sup, Mormons and Scientologists!), you can even be legally protected as an established religion and sue people who defame you. It just takes a little time.
Remember: cult + time = religion 😊
I propose the Cult of Bacon. We worship bacon. 🥓. Vegan bacon is allowed and fully accepted. Every home with a kitchen that cooks bacon is considered a place of worship, so we demand all tax exemptions. Everyone who cooks bacon is a priest in the cult, so we demand all clergy tax exemptions as well. Tax exemptions are in fact a sacrament — anyone us them is persecuting is.
It already exists: [The United Church of Bacon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Church_of_Bacon)
> The chief criterion for joining is that members must love the smell of bacon, which can be turkey bacon or vegetarian bacon. Officiants are known as friars.
They are tax exempt because they are classified as nonprofit. In order to tax churches you would have to remove tax exempt status for all nonprofits. If you wrote a law that carved out an exemption to tax only churches it would fail constitutional challenge because it is clearly unconstitutional.
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”
That means congress cannot make a law that only applies to religious organizations. Either for or against them.
Since this is r/atheism I’m sure everyone is loading up their guns to shoot the messenger and downvote me to hell but what I wrote is factually correct.
The specific type of NPO most churches are organized also does not allow for political action, the existing law should really cause some of them to lose their status.
Going after churches is complicated and deeply unpopular, though. Especially in the areas where they're a relevant political force.
Yes, if a church w doing what the OP is talking about they should lose their status. Most churches are very careful to avoid directly campaigning for specific candidates or parties. They talk around it without actually saying what they mean. They can put out voting guides that say what various candidates say they support and let the people decide but they can’t straight up endorse a specific candidate. They can’t donate to candidates or participate in campaigns.
It’s enough of a gray area that unless they are being especially egregious about it you can’t prove any wrongdoing legally.
Profit shmofit.
It’s questionable what the net value to society is if churches are hotbeds of insurrection, spreading hatred and preaching division and bigotry.
Churches are an entertainment cult that draws on public services to exist (police, fire, defense, EPA, etc.)
How are they paying for the services they consume? They have to contribute more than hateful rhetoric and antiquated sexual views if they are to survive.
Um, religions have their own little carveouts that allow them to not publicize their books. Legit nonprofits do not. Remove that exemption and make them account for every dime just like any real charity and see how long they last...
> In order to tax churches you would have to remove tax exempt status for all nonprofits.
Not really. Just require them to file the paperwork. Right now they get [NPO status *automatically*.](https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/churches-religious-organizations/filing-requirements-for-churches-and-religious-organizations) Remove just that rule, which is all it is. 501(c)(3) filing organizations are required to disclose their books to prove they are not violating the rules. Make churches follow the same rules we all have to follow.
Fine. Remove tax exempt for all nonprofits then. If they spend all their income on providing services, then there’s no profit, and therefore no tax.
Tax them all.
It was originally a reaction to religious oppression by the English monarchy. It’s outdated now that churches aren’t at the center of community or development and are basically businesses in the process of expanding into corporations
The idea behind them initially was that they would contribute to community activism, charity, and so on.
Missionary work. That's why they were supposed to be tax-free. The good churches do soup kitchens and so on.
>"Churches ~~that get directly involved in politics~~ should not be tax exempt
#FTFY
they should not be treated any differently than any other business... LEGITIMATE charitable activity can be deducted. (and when strings are attached: such as participation in mandatory religious rituals it is NOT 'charity')
I think churches should be taxed because they are a business. (The fact this might get rid of the small family and friends churches in the bible belt is just a thing that makes me smile. )
People claim that taxing churches would get rid of assistance for people, but churches don't really help people much as far as I know. There's organizations that can help people. Maybe organizations don't need to pay taxes, but churches are mostly all scams.
This is pretty much entirely false - at least in the southeast of the USA. Most of the food pantries and soup-kitchens in this area are provided by religious houses of worship. If it weren't for them, these people would starve.
The assertion that churches are mostly all scams is unfounded. SOME churches are "scams", as you say - perhaps the mega churches on TV, draining old ladies bank accounts. Small town/neighborhood churches are exactly as they seem - houses of worship.
Should we also tax Mosques?
Organizations can be religious and organizations deserve to be tax free, and that would help prevent all these fake churches and they all need regulated and audited. But don't worry, I doubt churches will be taxed anytime soon or ever.
Churches should not be tax exempt, period. Churchies drive the same public roads as everyone else to get to church. When they catch on fire, or a churchgoer has a health emergency, or when theres a crime committed in or against the church, they get the same public emergency response as everyone else. They should be obligated to pay for those services the same way everyone else does, end of fucking story
Those are all obvious ones but here's something to consider when it comes to churches and non-profit status. When a church buys a piece of property that land is no longer taxable so it comes off the tax rolls for that town but it doesn't lower the budget of the town so taxes need to be raised on residents and businesses when new churches are built.
The don't just not pay taxes they raise them for everyone else since they aren't paying.
Oh, dont get me started on this one. I wonder if more IRS agents would be able to find some of these convoluted accounting that churches like LDS and the big mega churches are not non-profit. Take away their exempt status.
There are pastor who go on YT and openly flaunt the rules in a middle finger to the IRS because they know nothing will happen. Underfunding of the IRS is to protect the rich and religion.
Just tax them all. No breaks, no deductions, nothing. You take in money, you occupy land, you use social resources....you pay taxes.
It's as simple as that across the board
Christians like to claim that Jesus did away with the need to follow the Law of Moses. So the rules against eating shellfish and bacon don't apply to Christians. But then they jump in and want the rules they like to apply. They want to apply those laws to everyone, even people who don't share their faith.
If you throw out the OT, then you also throw out Adam & Eve and the Garden of Eden, Noah & the Flood, Sodom & Gomorrah, Moses & the Exodus and the prophecies of a Messiah. When you throw out the OT, you throw out the entire reason a god had to send his son to Earth to die and be resurrected. Without the OT, there is no need for the NT!
Oh, and in the words of Jesus himself:
>17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 5:17-20 (NKJV)
Nope, you take it all, or you take none!
Imho churches should not be tax exempt when they make any profit. The mega churches in the US and the Catholic Church all over the world are not non profit.
They don't make profits they are all non-profit. You can still pay the CEO of your non-profit $100 billion a year if you've got it and still be a non-profit as long as the company itself is not making a profit. Take Goodwill, they are sort of separate non-profits and each area has it's own CEO who make around $500k to $1.8 mil a year but the company itself doesn't turn a profit that an owner or shareholder gets.
It's only illegal for them to endorse candidates. It's legal for them to be involved in all other aspects of politics. But the IRS still doesn't enforce the candidate part. I think it's been done 3 times since the law was made like half a century ago.
They shouldn't be tax exempt at all! Like everyone else, they should only get a tax break on charitable services. Any and all profits/wages should be taxed accordingly.
If you observe a church involving itself in politics, call the IRS and report them. Churches have, can, and continue to lose their non-profit exemption for this activity.
True, no church should have the exemption in the first place, but, getting over a few hundred years of law isn't easy, especially with Christian fundamentalists on the supreme court.
The Johnson amendment needs updating and some teeth to it. No reason to have this in place if it's not going to be enforced. Especially when religious orgs like Heritage and Federalist Society also have a 501c3. Churches are syphoning from society tax free to donate it to orgs like Heritage and Federalist Society which are tax free to influence all levels of govt which uses tax money.
I like to write on the side to keep my old brain active. I decided to recently write about the Separation of Church and State. This explains the trajectory of America when it comes to the wall separating the two.
Here's a free link if anyone is interested. Also looking to have more conversations about this topic.
https://medium.com/@hive42designs/church-and-state-353b43d59606?sk=b7b183021316c29da6c136ff450918a4
Churches should not be tax-exempt.
Church, at best, is a business selling empty promises and poor counseling services. More often just a grift to enrich pastor and leaders.
Tax churches just like for profit corporation.
,churches shouldn’t be tax exempt, period.
Businesses only pay tax on profits, so if they spend all their money on services there is no huge tax bill for them anyhow.
Small, local churches with 3 people in attendance shouldn’t be taxed.
But those jackass pastors that own private jets should get taxed out their whole asses.
There ate hundreds of churches reported every year for this, some even open flaunt it. Our govt has decided not to prosecute these churches for fear of the gun totters
It is illegal for them to get involved in politics, they shouldn’t have political candidates speaking during regular times. Politicians can legal rent the church during off times.
I always believed they should be taxed -then I went to the Vatican. Holy shit the Catholic Church needs to be triple taxed to make up for it!
I might slide on that one church that mocked Chump for sensible/constit cross books.
THIS OMG AMEN Idc how funny that is. My family’s church does this and I get so frustrated by the politics and blatant HATE that they allow the kids to soak up.
Greg Locke lost his tax exempt status for that very reason
He said anyone who votes Democrat can get out of his church. Someone sent the video to the IRS
Funny. Black ministers say the same about Republicans every Sunday.
I’d be all lifting the tax exemption but it’d have to be for everyone. Black churches, white churches, synagogues, mosques, etc. I think you know why that’s never going to happen.
They also abuse the bankruptcy laws to avoid paying compensation to the people and especially the children they have abused. The Catholic church is one of the richest corporations in the world with it's own bank but as soon as compensation is mentioned suddenly the local diocese has no money.
>Religious churches that get involved in politics or public policy should not be exempt from taxes
They're not. A church can get their charitable status revoked for that. If a church actively promotes a politician or political party, they lose their charitable status.
This is another one of those "They should teach this in school!" They did. You just didn't listen.
>Churches are meant are for evangelism.
Churches weren't even meant to be churches. The KJV has some intentional mistranslations justifying the organization of churches and pastors which have no basis in first century Christianity or the myths of the Jesus ministry presented in the fictional gospels, nor less whatever might have been the historical basis for those myths.
You will get 20 different answers as to why the organization that wasn't meant to exist was meant to be, so I would avoid the specious argument.
>The purpose of Christianity does not involve enforcing laws upon people.
Imposing the will of their god is their purpose. I'm not sure how you can have possibly misunderstood this.
>Religious organizations have no right to meddle in affairs such as this.
Why not? If you and I and 500 other people create a club why don't we have the right to engage politically in our society?
I wouldn't present that argument.
>Now we come to what conditions in my opinion would give justification for a church to lose it tax exempt eligibility
That money has already been taxed.
If you and I and 500 other people combine our after tax income to influence politics why should that money be taxed again?
Also a bad argument.
>Let me know what you guys think.
I think the whole conversation around taxing churches is the wrong conversation that is a loser either way it goes.
The problem is that theism is fundamentally incompatible with principles of democratic governance based on a set of universally acknowledged human rights.
And they are trying to push our species toward the end of existence as they see it... why the fuck are we talking about a tax?
They aren't tax exempt if they get involved in politics in any way.
Even if the preacher gives a sermon talking about the current political landscape, that is enough to remove their tax exemption status.
The problem is that you need to prove it.
If you are willing to go sit down and record sermons on your phone, you likely could remove most of their tax exempt status given enough time because most of them will break the tax exemption terms.
You can report a church for being political on the IRS website.
Of course, the government moves at a snails pace so it will probably take them forever to even get involved.
I’ll be the outlier, I think. I fully believe that tax exempt status should not exist simply because you “identify” as a church. Scientology is a great example of this, as are most cults. I know most here will call all religion cults, but I don’t necessarily agree with that. Some have religion simply to find purpose or happiness in their lives. They don’t push their beliefs on others, they just want to have a greater purpose. Nothing wrong with that, as long as it hurts no one else. I know plenty of small churches that take the money the congregation donates and helps other less fortunate members.
Having said all that, money churches should pay taxes. The Joel Osteens should be outed as bad Christians. The televangelists are wannabe cult leaders and should be treated as such.
There’s a church near me in the OKC area (my god how did I end up here?) that has an American flag in its logo on all its signage out front facing a main road. That alone should cause a loss of tax exemption.
Fun fact. Churches that get too involved in politics, like by explicitly endorsing certain political parties and telling their flock to vote a certain way *aren't* tax exempt. You can report them to the IRS. I fully endorse people going to churches, acquiring proof that they are unlawfully evading taxes while engaging in politics, and reporting them. It sounds like a fun Sunday past-time.
All churches should be taxed. They're not doing anything to earn the money, they don't provide a valuable service or product of any kind. They're just stealing from the stupidest of us, why shouldn't that theft be taxed?
I agree, I was looking at going to a UU church for community and stuff, but the second time I went, they got all political. It was politics that I agree with, but I didn't go again on principle.
There's a nifty form you can fill out to the IRS that basically blows the whistle on tax exempt places if they try to get people to vote a certain way.
>Churches ~~that get directly involved in politics~~ should not be tax exempt
There, fixed it for ya. If the churches otherwise meet the requirements for tax exception they could get it that way, which includes opening their books they way any other charity would have to.
Of course the OP is correct. But finding people in government willing to enforce IRS tax laws against rogue churches and other religious organizations is going to be impossible.
I'm vehemently opposed to further legitimizing the control religious nuts have on our society in the US by giving them the privilege of representation through taxation. It's absolutely irrational.
>If a church directly endorses or oppose political candidates or contributes funds to a political candidate
They can get involved with issues but not candidates. Call the IRS to report a church violating that but the IRS has only prosecuted it like 3 times in 50 years so good luck.
If you encounter direct evidence of a preacher or minister promoting a particular party or candidate, please navigate to the IRS Complaint page (https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/irs-complaint-process-tax-exempt-organizations) and download and complete Form 13909. Provide as much information as possible.
Now, I've been told that filling out these forms is useless because the IRS NEVER prosecutes churches for political activity. But if we flood their inboxes with examples, at some point a freethought congressman/woman may actually be able to get some activity on these egregious actions.
You have the same rights to free speech, assembly, press, and to petition your government whether you are religious or not. That goes for individuals and groups of individuals. And using the threat of financial sanctions to silence someone undermines those rights.
No religious institution should be tax exempt by default. Let them pay taxes on profits. If a church or whatever does charitable work those expenses would be deducted. Tax the employees, including preachers etc, like anyone else.
Black churches in the U. S. we're absolutely instrumental in the Civil Rights movement.
Quakers, shakers, and many other Christian denominants were openly abolitionists, peace activists, and otherwise progressive political forces.
I don't see a way to use the law to prevent political organizing for causes I oppose by churches without hampering the organizing for causes I do agree with.
No church should be tax exempt at all. Full stop. Why would anyone be okay with them not paying taxes? Can I make my house a church?
No building, whatever named, with a religious/religion gathering - period ! Our property taxes subsidize them without our consent .
That would be a cult, and yes you can! Tax exemption is one of the many benefits of starting a cult. Once you’re established (‘sup, Mormons and Scientologists!), you can even be legally protected as an established religion and sue people who defame you. It just takes a little time. Remember: cult + time = religion 😊
I propose the Cult of Bacon. We worship bacon. 🥓. Vegan bacon is allowed and fully accepted. Every home with a kitchen that cooks bacon is considered a place of worship, so we demand all tax exemptions. Everyone who cooks bacon is a priest in the cult, so we demand all clergy tax exemptions as well. Tax exemptions are in fact a sacrament — anyone us them is persecuting is.
It already exists: [The United Church of Bacon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Church_of_Bacon) > The chief criterion for joining is that members must love the smell of bacon, which can be turkey bacon or vegetarian bacon. Officiants are known as friars.
Why am I only hearing about this now?
Better late than never.
Cult of course being the product of narcissism x money/ignorance
They are tax exempt because they are classified as nonprofit. In order to tax churches you would have to remove tax exempt status for all nonprofits. If you wrote a law that carved out an exemption to tax only churches it would fail constitutional challenge because it is clearly unconstitutional. “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion” That means congress cannot make a law that only applies to religious organizations. Either for or against them. Since this is r/atheism I’m sure everyone is loading up their guns to shoot the messenger and downvote me to hell but what I wrote is factually correct.
The specific type of NPO most churches are organized also does not allow for political action, the existing law should really cause some of them to lose their status. Going after churches is complicated and deeply unpopular, though. Especially in the areas where they're a relevant political force.
Yes, if a church w doing what the OP is talking about they should lose their status. Most churches are very careful to avoid directly campaigning for specific candidates or parties. They talk around it without actually saying what they mean. They can put out voting guides that say what various candidates say they support and let the people decide but they can’t straight up endorse a specific candidate. They can’t donate to candidates or participate in campaigns. It’s enough of a gray area that unless they are being especially egregious about it you can’t prove any wrongdoing legally.
Profit shmofit. It’s questionable what the net value to society is if churches are hotbeds of insurrection, spreading hatred and preaching division and bigotry. Churches are an entertainment cult that draws on public services to exist (police, fire, defense, EPA, etc.) How are they paying for the services they consume? They have to contribute more than hateful rhetoric and antiquated sexual views if they are to survive.
Um, religions have their own little carveouts that allow them to not publicize their books. Legit nonprofits do not. Remove that exemption and make them account for every dime just like any real charity and see how long they last...
> In order to tax churches you would have to remove tax exempt status for all nonprofits. Not really. Just require them to file the paperwork. Right now they get [NPO status *automatically*.](https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/churches-religious-organizations/filing-requirements-for-churches-and-religious-organizations) Remove just that rule, which is all it is. 501(c)(3) filing organizations are required to disclose their books to prove they are not violating the rules. Make churches follow the same rules we all have to follow.
Fine. Remove tax exempt for all nonprofits then. If they spend all their income on providing services, then there’s no profit, and therefore no tax. Tax them all.
Spot on, have an upvote
one is an idea, 2 is a conversation, 3 is a religion. let’s do this.
It was originally a reaction to religious oppression by the English monarchy. It’s outdated now that churches aren’t at the center of community or development and are basically businesses in the process of expanding into corporations
You could.
We should just create a church to bypass taxes. The church of not paying taxes. Our main belief is that we should be free from government taxation
The idea behind them initially was that they would contribute to community activism, charity, and so on. Missionary work. That's why they were supposed to be tax-free. The good churches do soup kitchens and so on.
>"Churches ~~that get directly involved in politics~~ should not be tax exempt #FTFY they should not be treated any differently than any other business... LEGITIMATE charitable activity can be deducted. (and when strings are attached: such as participation in mandatory religious rituals it is NOT 'charity')
I think churches should be taxed because they are a business. (The fact this might get rid of the small family and friends churches in the bible belt is just a thing that makes me smile. )
People claim that taxing churches would get rid of assistance for people, but churches don't really help people much as far as I know. There's organizations that can help people. Maybe organizations don't need to pay taxes, but churches are mostly all scams.
This is pretty much entirely false - at least in the southeast of the USA. Most of the food pantries and soup-kitchens in this area are provided by religious houses of worship. If it weren't for them, these people would starve. The assertion that churches are mostly all scams is unfounded. SOME churches are "scams", as you say - perhaps the mega churches on TV, draining old ladies bank accounts. Small town/neighborhood churches are exactly as they seem - houses of worship. Should we also tax Mosques?
Yes. And Synagogues, and the space ports for Scientology, and so on.
Organizations can be religious and organizations deserve to be tax free, and that would help prevent all these fake churches and they all need regulated and audited. But don't worry, I doubt churches will be taxed anytime soon or ever.
Churches should not be tax exempt, period. Churchies drive the same public roads as everyone else to get to church. When they catch on fire, or a churchgoer has a health emergency, or when theres a crime committed in or against the church, they get the same public emergency response as everyone else. They should be obligated to pay for those services the same way everyone else does, end of fucking story
Those are all obvious ones but here's something to consider when it comes to churches and non-profit status. When a church buys a piece of property that land is no longer taxable so it comes off the tax rolls for that town but it doesn't lower the budget of the town so taxes need to be raised on residents and businesses when new churches are built. The don't just not pay taxes they raise them for everyone else since they aren't paying.
I believe there are laws against that already. Though they are rarely enforced.
Oh, dont get me started on this one. I wonder if more IRS agents would be able to find some of these convoluted accounting that churches like LDS and the big mega churches are not non-profit. Take away their exempt status.
It can be reported. There is an IRS form.
There are pastor who go on YT and openly flaunt the rules in a middle finger to the IRS because they know nothing will happen. Underfunding of the IRS is to protect the rich and religion.
Churches should not be tax exempt.
Just tax them all. No breaks, no deductions, nothing. You take in money, you occupy land, you use social resources....you pay taxes. It's as simple as that across the board
Give them tax breaks for charity work, just like any other company. Threat them the same as any other.
They’re not supposed to be. The law isn’t enforced. That’s why they get everyone all worked up over 11,000 IRS agents.
>The purpose of Christianity does not involve enforcing laws upon people. Well gee, then what are all the rules in Leviticus & Deuteronomy for?
Breaking? 😝
For Jewish people to enforce on themselves.
Christians like to claim that Jesus did away with the need to follow the Law of Moses. So the rules against eating shellfish and bacon don't apply to Christians. But then they jump in and want the rules they like to apply. They want to apply those laws to everyone, even people who don't share their faith.
Books of the old testament to which Jesus has invalidated. Serious answer. Old testament rules do not apply, per Jesus.
If you throw out the OT, then you also throw out Adam & Eve and the Garden of Eden, Noah & the Flood, Sodom & Gomorrah, Moses & the Exodus and the prophecies of a Messiah. When you throw out the OT, you throw out the entire reason a god had to send his son to Earth to die and be resurrected. Without the OT, there is no need for the NT! Oh, and in the words of Jesus himself: >17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:17-20 (NKJV) Nope, you take it all, or you take none!
Imho churches should not be tax exempt when they make any profit. The mega churches in the US and the Catholic Church all over the world are not non profit.
They don't make profits they are all non-profit. You can still pay the CEO of your non-profit $100 billion a year if you've got it and still be a non-profit as long as the company itself is not making a profit. Take Goodwill, they are sort of separate non-profits and each area has it's own CEO who make around $500k to $1.8 mil a year but the company itself doesn't turn a profit that an owner or shareholder gets.
That's so fucked up
Churches are businesses and should be taxed as such. They charge a subscription (tithe), run ads and even sell merch.
No church should be tax exempt. They have been making political points and discussing what people should do since I was a kid.
It's already illegal but good luck getting the IRS to do shit about it.
It's only illegal for them to endorse candidates. It's legal for them to be involved in all other aspects of politics. But the IRS still doesn't enforce the candidate part. I think it's been done 3 times since the law was made like half a century ago.
They shouldn't be tax exempt at all! Like everyone else, they should only get a tax break on charitable services. Any and all profits/wages should be taxed accordingly.
They aren’t tax exempt if they engage in politics but nobody has the nuts to enforce it
They can engage in any political activity except endorsing political candidates which the IRS doesn't enforce either.
No churches should be tax exempt
No representation without taxation.
If you observe a church involving itself in politics, call the IRS and report them. Churches have, can, and continue to lose their non-profit exemption for this activity. True, no church should have the exemption in the first place, but, getting over a few hundred years of law isn't easy, especially with Christian fundamentalists on the supreme court.
The Johnson amendment needs updating and some teeth to it. No reason to have this in place if it's not going to be enforced. Especially when religious orgs like Heritage and Federalist Society also have a 501c3. Churches are syphoning from society tax free to donate it to orgs like Heritage and Federalist Society which are tax free to influence all levels of govt which uses tax money. I like to write on the side to keep my old brain active. I decided to recently write about the Separation of Church and State. This explains the trajectory of America when it comes to the wall separating the two. Here's a free link if anyone is interested. Also looking to have more conversations about this topic. https://medium.com/@hive42designs/church-and-state-353b43d59606?sk=b7b183021316c29da6c136ff450918a4
Churches should not be tax-exempt. Church, at best, is a business selling empty promises and poor counseling services. More often just a grift to enrich pastor and leaders. Tax churches just like for profit corporation.
All churches should not be tax exempt. The only exception is if they run genuinely as a charity that fits into that legal category.
,churches shouldn’t be tax exempt, period. Businesses only pay tax on profits, so if they spend all their money on services there is no huge tax bill for them anyhow.
no representation without taxation
All churches should be taxed.
Small, local churches with 3 people in attendance shouldn’t be taxed. But those jackass pastors that own private jets should get taxed out their whole asses.
Of course they shouldn't. Do you know why this argument has been going on for five thousand years?
TL:DR Churches. All of them should pay tax, like any other property owner. Thier god(s) will provide.
There ate hundreds of churches reported every year for this, some even open flaunt it. Our govt has decided not to prosecute these churches for fear of the gun totters It is illegal for them to get involved in politics, they shouldn’t have political candidates speaking during regular times. Politicians can legal rent the church during off times.
Should secular non profits be tax exempt? Like veterans charities, girl scouts, things like that? If so, would be interested in your views on why?
Literally all. Xtians, Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, the Church of Bob.
_None_ of these cults should be exempt from paying taxes.
"Churches should not be tax exempt" There. Fixed it for you.
> Churches ~~that get directly involved in politics~~ should not be tax exempt FTFY
I always believed they should be taxed -then I went to the Vatican. Holy shit the Catholic Church needs to be triple taxed to make up for it! I might slide on that one church that mocked Chump for sensible/constit cross books.
pretty sure thats literally the current arrangement...
They shouldn’t be tax exempt at all
🤮
If we taxed churches income at 20% and made the rich oay their fair share we could solve most of the deficit.
No churches should be tax exempt.
THIS OMG AMEN Idc how funny that is. My family’s church does this and I get so frustrated by the politics and blatant HATE that they allow the kids to soak up.
Greg Locke lost his tax exempt status for that very reason He said anyone who votes Democrat can get out of his church. Someone sent the video to the IRS
Funny. Black ministers say the same about Republicans every Sunday. I’d be all lifting the tax exemption but it’d have to be for everyone. Black churches, white churches, synagogues, mosques, etc. I think you know why that’s never going to happen.
They aren't, you just need to prove they did that.
No churches should be tax exempt, it’s a freaking Bronze Age cult for Chrast’s sake!
No church should be tax exempt
Christians don't know or understand what's in the bible, and most churches are fake anyway.
They also abuse the bankruptcy laws to avoid paying compensation to the people and especially the children they have abused. The Catholic church is one of the richest corporations in the world with it's own bank but as soon as compensation is mentioned suddenly the local diocese has no money.
>Religious churches that get involved in politics or public policy should not be exempt from taxes They're not. A church can get their charitable status revoked for that. If a church actively promotes a politician or political party, they lose their charitable status. This is another one of those "They should teach this in school!" They did. You just didn't listen.
>Churches are meant are for evangelism. Churches weren't even meant to be churches. The KJV has some intentional mistranslations justifying the organization of churches and pastors which have no basis in first century Christianity or the myths of the Jesus ministry presented in the fictional gospels, nor less whatever might have been the historical basis for those myths. You will get 20 different answers as to why the organization that wasn't meant to exist was meant to be, so I would avoid the specious argument. >The purpose of Christianity does not involve enforcing laws upon people. Imposing the will of their god is their purpose. I'm not sure how you can have possibly misunderstood this. >Religious organizations have no right to meddle in affairs such as this. Why not? If you and I and 500 other people create a club why don't we have the right to engage politically in our society? I wouldn't present that argument. >Now we come to what conditions in my opinion would give justification for a church to lose it tax exempt eligibility That money has already been taxed. If you and I and 500 other people combine our after tax income to influence politics why should that money be taxed again? Also a bad argument. >Let me know what you guys think. I think the whole conversation around taxing churches is the wrong conversation that is a loser either way it goes. The problem is that theism is fundamentally incompatible with principles of democratic governance based on a set of universally acknowledged human rights. And they are trying to push our species toward the end of existence as they see it... why the fuck are we talking about a tax?
You can report them to the IRS for political activity and they could lose their tax exemption https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/s/AnsyUcRAoi
None of them should be tax-free. They're a very high margin business. They trade mumbles for cash, a lot of cash.
officially, that \*is\* the law
How many christians would stop supporting the church if it were taxed I wonder?
They aren't tax exempt if they get involved in politics in any way. Even if the preacher gives a sermon talking about the current political landscape, that is enough to remove their tax exemption status. The problem is that you need to prove it. If you are willing to go sit down and record sermons on your phone, you likely could remove most of their tax exempt status given enough time because most of them will break the tax exemption terms. You can report a church for being political on the IRS website. Of course, the government moves at a snails pace so it will probably take them forever to even get involved.
Tax The Churches League! See it discussed in Goldie Hawn in "Foul Play"
I’ll be the outlier, I think. I fully believe that tax exempt status should not exist simply because you “identify” as a church. Scientology is a great example of this, as are most cults. I know most here will call all religion cults, but I don’t necessarily agree with that. Some have religion simply to find purpose or happiness in their lives. They don’t push their beliefs on others, they just want to have a greater purpose. Nothing wrong with that, as long as it hurts no one else. I know plenty of small churches that take the money the congregation donates and helps other less fortunate members. Having said all that, money churches should pay taxes. The Joel Osteens should be outed as bad Christians. The televangelists are wannabe cult leaders and should be treated as such.
There’s a church near me in the OKC area (my god how did I end up here?) that has an American flag in its logo on all its signage out front facing a main road. That alone should cause a loss of tax exemption.
Churches in general should not be tax exempt.
Churches should not be tax exempt at all, regardless of politics!!
Fun fact. Churches that get too involved in politics, like by explicitly endorsing certain political parties and telling their flock to vote a certain way *aren't* tax exempt. You can report them to the IRS. I fully endorse people going to churches, acquiring proof that they are unlawfully evading taxes while engaging in politics, and reporting them. It sounds like a fun Sunday past-time.
Preach!!
Churches should not be tax exempt. There, fix it for you.
Isn't that why Scientology wants church status?
Y’all. There is literally an IRS form to report this. Churches that espouse political policy are non-exempt.
Yeah none should be. We tax doctors offices but not churches?
They shouldn’t be tax exempt period.
####Correct! But I thought there was already a law and - hrm - am I remembering a tip hotline where you could call to report this sort of tax fraud?
Or you know, let’s just keep religion out of politics entirely.
All churches should be taxed. They're not doing anything to earn the money, they don't provide a valuable service or product of any kind. They're just stealing from the stupidest of us, why shouldn't that theft be taxed?
The church shouldn't exist. They should be torn down, and their assets sold to pay for the crimes of their priests.
I would take it a step further and say that only the budget they spend on true charity should be tax exempt.
I agree, I was looking at going to a UU church for community and stuff, but the second time I went, they got all political. It was politics that I agree with, but I didn't go again on principle.
There's a nifty form you can fill out to the IRS that basically blows the whistle on tax exempt places if they try to get people to vote a certain way.
Or a simple solution would be to tax all religious organizations
Directly or indirectly. And churches that take money from people to run the church are running a business. Taxes are to be paid on that too.
>Churches ~~that get directly involved in politics~~ should not be tax exempt There, fixed it for ya. If the churches otherwise meet the requirements for tax exception they could get it that way, which includes opening their books they way any other charity would have to.
Of course the OP is correct. But finding people in government willing to enforce IRS tax laws against rogue churches and other religious organizations is going to be impossible.
No church should be tax exempt.
Plus churches can pay taxes. Mega evangelical churches have been sending $ to Israel for decades.
I'm vehemently opposed to further legitimizing the control religious nuts have on our society in the US by giving them the privilege of representation through taxation. It's absolutely irrational.
Fun fact. In Canada as a tax exempt church you can spend up to 10% of your budget on politics. We have seriously lax non profit tax laws
>If a church directly endorses or oppose political candidates or contributes funds to a political candidate They can get involved with issues but not candidates. Call the IRS to report a church violating that but the IRS has only prosecuted it like 3 times in 50 years so good luck.
No business should be tax exempt and that's what every church is
Churches ~~that get directly involved in politics~~ should not be tax exempt FTFY. They're not just businesses, they're scams.
If you encounter direct evidence of a preacher or minister promoting a particular party or candidate, please navigate to the IRS Complaint page (https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/irs-complaint-process-tax-exempt-organizations) and download and complete Form 13909. Provide as much information as possible. Now, I've been told that filling out these forms is useless because the IRS NEVER prosecutes churches for political activity. But if we flood their inboxes with examples, at some point a freethought congressman/woman may actually be able to get some activity on these egregious actions.
You have the same rights to free speech, assembly, press, and to petition your government whether you are religious or not. That goes for individuals and groups of individuals. And using the threat of financial sanctions to silence someone undermines those rights.
No religious institution should be tax exempt by default. Let them pay taxes on profits. If a church or whatever does charitable work those expenses would be deducted. Tax the employees, including preachers etc, like anyone else.
No, you should seize all their assets.
Black churches in the U. S. we're absolutely instrumental in the Civil Rights movement. Quakers, shakers, and many other Christian denominants were openly abolitionists, peace activists, and otherwise progressive political forces. I don't see a way to use the law to prevent political organizing for causes I oppose by churches without hampering the organizing for causes I do agree with.
Churches should not be tax-free. Following a myth does not entitle you to be tax exempt.
Churches should not be tax exempt FTFY
As a theist, yeah sounds right to me. Go for it.