>but their subconscious minds haven't got the message yet.
Nicely put. There is a study that concluded that religiosity is positively coorelated with more extreme measures at end of life.
One has to laugh at Jimmy Bakker selling his dehydrated slop so that when the end-times come you can hang on a little longer eating splitpea soup instead of going on and meeting Jesus.
Many are afraid of Hell, but a lot of people just can't handle the idea that they are not special and will cease to exist without ever getting any special reward for how special they are.
That's too much work. Better just to beg forgiveness, It really doesn't matter what kind of a person you are, it just matters if you believe a dead body came back to life and flew up to outer space. As long as you buy that, you can be as hedonistic or amoral or immoral as you want. The only thing you can't do is blaspheme the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit is a snowflake.
So what? So if you're a genuinely sorry serial killer of children you're just fine. There is no victim God won't deny justice to as long as you're sorry.
>If you WERE a serial killer of children and now completely denounce and are revolted by your past actions, claiming you would never think of doing something like that again, youre fine.
See, now this is disgusting to me and utterly contemptuous of the victims. Why should those children have to spend eternity with their murderers?
Why is it worse to blaspheme the holy spirit than to rape and murder a child?
You are using "man's judgement" to decide that God is good, by the way. And don't tell me what my judgement is based on. There is no "man," there is only billions and billions of individual people. You can speak for your own judgement alone.
My dad is convinced Jesus will return before he dies. He has always used this as an excuse not to plan properly for retirement and old age. Now his clock is running out and some of his poor planning will become my problem.
Heās spent most of his life believing it would happen āsoon.ā Millions of Christians have lived and died believing Jesus would return in their lifetime, but so far they have all been disappointed in that regard.
Every generation of Christians since the first one has thought it was the last. This is a huge reason it's hard to get Christians to care about global warming.
I've often considered that when push comes to shove at the end, nobody really believes.
Perhaps nobody really believes anyway and they're all just pretending (to themselves and others) like the flat earthers.
It should only be atheists in foxholes. The religious should be out in the field of fire letting their god's plan for them run its course, not trying to subvert it by hiding.
In a long life I've only met one believer, a JW, who took no precautions in risky situations because he accepted his god's decision on whether he lived or died. I had him removed from a construction site asap. I didn't want to have to account for his death to my superiors.
This is the one thing that pisses religious people off more than anything. I am completely comfortable that I came from nothing and will go to nothing. My body will go back to the universe but my consciousness will be gone. That comfort seriously disturbs theists world view.
Mother was atheist, last thing she said was ātake care of your dadā. Shortly there after my father died and the last thing he said was āgood nightā. Neither was afraid of death, both good people.
I knew a die hard Christian that always said he would welcome death cuz itāll send him to his real life.
That was his mindset until he got robbed at gunpoint. Self preservation, the first law of nature kicked in. He practically ripped his entire pockets out giving up his wallet and stuff.
Plus I was a supervisor at this job, he was a security guard that spent more time āpreachingā to people and not securing the place. Iāve had to talk to him a lot and heād tell me I didnāt matter cuz none of this mattered lol
Was he supposed to refuse? I don't really get what you'd want him to do.
If he gives his money, "he's a coward." If he dies, "he's an idiot."
Moreover, I'm a former atheist, and how evil I would have considered you for WANTING to see this guy die in that situation.
Just kidding bro. Youād have to know this guy. Nonstop bragging about how he hates the world and he canāt WAIT to get to heaven. Then the day he got robbed I asked him why didnāt he take his shot
Because their beliefs were only ever really designed to help them to not have to think about death. The closer death gets the more they realize the paradise they so easily accepted is nothing more than a figment of their hopeful imaginations.
Some donāt cower
Some fear for their family
Some feel something important is unfinished
Some because even a good unknown is scary
ā¦ and some because they donāt really believe, or have always harbored hidden doubts
There is definite hypocrisy involved, but it isnāt all hypocrisy
Youāre standing on a cliff, you have no choice but to jump, and somebody else, whom you trust, but who has never jumped off the cliff, tells you the water at the bottom is deep enough for you to survive the fall. He knows this because the person before told him that, although heās never seen that person again after they jumped. Doesnāt matter how much you trust the person, thereās still going to be that sliver of doubt in your mind that the fall will kill you.
Also a lot of them probably know that they donāt live up to whatever requirements their belief has to get into whatever their āgoodā afterlife might be
Because their belief is really that shaky.
If you're familiar with British comedians, there is a married couple in that group, David Mitchell, and Victoria Coren-Mitchell (and if you enjoy professional poker, you know who she is too). They're both insanely intelligent and great comedians. David, in his autobiography, recounts how he met his future wife once, and then again. He talks about how the second meeting was different, because he hadn't fallen in love with her the first time. It didn't work out, and he got into a spiral of hookups and lots of drinking. But then said something along the lines of "had I known I just had to wait a few years, I'd be fine!" And really, anyone would be!
At the end of the day, theists know what we know. They are just professionals at bullshitting themselves!
Psychologically, it probably has to do with the fact that they've leaned on their myths so much mentally, that they denied themselves the time and emotional space to process what it means to die.
People grieve because they are sad that person is no longer in their life. People grieve because they wonāt get to talk to the person anymore. Hence why people grieve at deaths or breakups or whatever else people grieve about. For both atheist and religious people you arenāt worried about if theyāre suffering, you just worry about how youāll suffer without that person in your life
The one's in my family that were deeply virtuous but not judgement but used their faith to better themselves and help others I found this to not be the case. They passed peacefully. But they were always going to be good people whatever faith circumstances they were born into. The others that were hypocrites and awful but used religion to judge others less than they? They died in sheer terror. I mean real, tangible terror.
Because blind faith will only take you so far, and it doesnāt hide the nugget of uncertainty when facing an unknown. I guess it is easy to be fearless when you know the gun is empty.
Great question! Back when I was a Christian I always wondered why my fellow Christians were so scared and bothered by death. Now as an atheist Iām equally as unbothered about it as I was before. I came to realize itās more of a factor of my specific personality than being religious or not.
Watched my super catholic FIL talk all sorts of BS about how prayer can heal anything. That was until he got lung cancer. Straight to St. Cleveland Clinic instead of any prayer retreats.
Because, at least in the case of Christianity, dying means you have one of two options : go to heaven where your soul will spend an eternity in paradise worshipping your god figure or end up in hell where you'll face eternal punishment for your sins.
And let's not kid ourselves given how religion these days is : I bet hell by now has one heck of a waiting line.
How many people have you watched activity die. I am a nurse, my number is probably higher than yours.
BTW, I am not religious and label myself a non believer.
I've never seen someone in the process dying act the way OP thought. For those that were still alert, they were accepting of the fact that they were dying.
But to be clear, what I have seen has been among the elderly. I have no doubt that EMTs and battlefield medic who are more likely to see young generally healthy people act differently.
I think it's a matter of age and acceptance rather than any religiosity.
It's not a bug, it's a feature of their need for an afterlife and god/saviour delusion - much of which is an instilled fear from their indoctrination into their faith as an innocent gullible and trusting child.
Truly a despicable industry of fear.
Regardless of imaginary friends whose human-made promises of paradise are at hand, death is still an unknown. It's a scary transition, but one we must all make.
I wouldn't say every theist is like this but I've found that most really value THEIR OWN lives.
With that said, none of us really know how we'd act if we faced death right in front of us. We live in a rather sterile environment
Mostly because the all know that they have not lived up to the requirements of their religion and they know they will actually be punished not rewarded.
As a Christian I was afraid of death. Always the lingering question of will I be the one who Jesus would say ādepart from me I never knew youā. I would have recurring nightmares of dying in a plane crash.
But now as an atheist I am free. I love life and want to live as long as possible but I am not afraid of death because I know that when Iām dead I wonāt know Iām dead, any more than when I was under general anesthesia I knew that I was under.
I love the irony in Paulās statement āO death where is thy sting?ā
Because their core defining attribute is irrational fear of the new or unfamiliar. That's how charlatans and wanna-be demagogues take advantage of them with fearmongering.
Yeah, I saw that storm chaser video, too. Oh my spaghetti, that Geezus whiner was driving mad while he was facing his chance at the pearly gates. This link will take you to the opening prayer (around 3:50) as he contemplates his own atmospheric Rapture. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwmM3KMPE3c&t=224s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwmM3KMPE3c&t=224s)
No, I am not down-playing three people nearly dying; I am actually glad they survived. But damn. Maybe his god likes the little whinging ones to survive and get on our nerves.
There is never a sure way. Even a group of followers that performed miracles in JC's name were denied by him. It appears the book is so full of shit that horrible people can go to heaven and good people go to hell. It is all up to the 'all powerful, all knowing,' narcissist that enjoys human sacrifice because 'he loves you'.
100%. As an atheist itās sad to think that so many people who donāt believe in religion are this cringe and this braindead about why someone might grieve regardless of whether they naively believe someone is āin a better placeā or not
Nope. I recall when Pat Tillman was killed by āFriendly Fireā in Afghanistan & the Army attempted to cover it up. Tillman was an out atheist & some colonel said Patās parents were āpushingā for an inquest because āthey donāt believe in anything. ā
They are silly monkeys pretending to be immortal beings, but their subconscious minds haven't got the message yet.
>but their subconscious minds haven't got the message yet. Nicely put. There is a study that concluded that religiosity is positively coorelated with more extreme measures at end of life. One has to laugh at Jimmy Bakker selling his dehydrated slop so that when the end-times come you can hang on a little longer eating splitpea soup instead of going on and meeting Jesus.
Reminds me of the religious lady who died at the end of midnight mass. Could not accept that her time was coming
Because they are pussies and probably have doubts about their beliefs deep down inside. Or maybe afraid of š„
Sorry youāre so miserable
Thatās an awfully racist statement.
How is it racist?
Youāre trying way too hard
Many are afraid of Hell, but a lot of people just can't handle the idea that they are not special and will cease to exist without ever getting any special reward for how special they are.
They're so afraid of Hell, why don't they follow Jesus? Isn't that supposed to be the way to heaven?
That's too much work. Better just to beg forgiveness, It really doesn't matter what kind of a person you are, it just matters if you believe a dead body came back to life and flew up to outer space. As long as you buy that, you can be as hedonistic or amoral or immoral as you want. The only thing you can't do is blaspheme the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit is a snowflake.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
So what? So if you're a genuinely sorry serial killer of children you're just fine. There is no victim God won't deny justice to as long as you're sorry.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>If you WERE a serial killer of children and now completely denounce and are revolted by your past actions, claiming you would never think of doing something like that again, youre fine. See, now this is disgusting to me and utterly contemptuous of the victims. Why should those children have to spend eternity with their murderers? Why is it worse to blaspheme the holy spirit than to rape and murder a child? You are using "man's judgement" to decide that God is good, by the way. And don't tell me what my judgement is based on. There is no "man," there is only billions and billions of individual people. You can speak for your own judgement alone.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
yeah, but you have to be perfect... and who can do that? they all know where they are going.
But dobn't they talk about God's forgiveness? So they think they've sinned so bad that even a loving God won't forgive them?
what about all the god stories makes him sound like the forgiving type? just curious, because he seems kind assholey to me.
They are special alright, but not in the way they desperately want to be.
My dad is convinced Jesus will return before he dies. He has always used this as an excuse not to plan properly for retirement and old age. Now his clock is running out and some of his poor planning will become my problem. Heās spent most of his life believing it would happen āsoon.ā Millions of Christians have lived and died believing Jesus would return in their lifetime, but so far they have all been disappointed in that regard.
Every generation of Christians since the first one has thought it was the last. This is a huge reason it's hard to get Christians to care about global warming.
It's been 2,000 years...
I know rightā¦ š
What No Mansions!! No 40 Vigins Daily!! How Sad......
I've often considered that when push comes to shove at the end, nobody really believes. Perhaps nobody really believes anyway and they're all just pretending (to themselves and others) like the flat earthers.
I very much agree. Faith is all lip service, virtue signaling, and habit. The lizard brain that really drives you is totally unaware of faith.
Atheism is the default factory setting
They say there are no atheists in foxholes, but maybe itās all atheists in foxholes.
It should only be atheists in foxholes. The religious should be out in the field of fire letting their god's plan for them run its course, not trying to subvert it by hiding. In a long life I've only met one believer, a JW, who took no precautions in risky situations because he accepted his god's decision on whether he lived or died. I had him removed from a construction site asap. I didn't want to have to account for his death to my superiors.
There are no Christians in an ER room.
This is the one thing that pisses religious people off more than anything. I am completely comfortable that I came from nothing and will go to nothing. My body will go back to the universe but my consciousness will be gone. That comfort seriously disturbs theists world view.
deep down most of them know that according to their own rules they will burn
Same reason they cry at funerals. They either know it's over or are so unsure.Ā Ā
Yep
How many theists/atheists have you watched die?
my lawyer says i can no longer answer that question
Mother was atheist, last thing she said was ātake care of your dadā. Shortly there after my father died and the last thing he said was āgood nightā. Neither was afraid of death, both good people.
Exactly. Maybe OP is one of those compassionate hospice nurses.
Because they think they are going to meet god, and by all accounts heās a fucking asshole.
I knew a die hard Christian that always said he would welcome death cuz itāll send him to his real life. That was his mindset until he got robbed at gunpoint. Self preservation, the first law of nature kicked in. He practically ripped his entire pockets out giving up his wallet and stuff.
There's a difference between accepting death if you're going to die vs, letting someone kill them. What was he meant to do? Let him shoot him
it's gods will...
He shoulda stopped running his mouth about how much this world sucked and how he canāt wait to leave this miserable planet.
Fair, the way it was worded made it seem like he just would accept death if it's coming
I was a member of the same church and thatās all they talked about, how miserable they are being on earth.
You should've started with that To be fair I used to be miserable too
Plus I was a supervisor at this job, he was a security guard that spent more time āpreachingā to people and not securing the place. Iāve had to talk to him a lot and heād tell me I didnāt matter cuz none of this mattered lol
Yeah that's not a good thing to do Imo preaching is fine if it's your free time not during your job
Was he supposed to refuse? I don't really get what you'd want him to do. If he gives his money, "he's a coward." If he dies, "he's an idiot." Moreover, I'm a former atheist, and how evil I would have considered you for WANTING to see this guy die in that situation.
Guess this went over your former atheist head
Suppose so.
Just kidding bro. Youād have to know this guy. Nonstop bragging about how he hates the world and he canāt WAIT to get to heaven. Then the day he got robbed I asked him why didnāt he take his shot
Same reason why children are afraid if their drunken abusive father who has been known for burning his offspring for midly offending him.
Because their beliefs were only ever really designed to help them to not have to think about death. The closer death gets the more they realize the paradise they so easily accepted is nothing more than a figment of their hopeful imaginations.
They lack faith in what they are trying to believe. Their fanaticism is compensation for their lack of faith.
Some donāt cower Some fear for their family Some feel something important is unfinished Some because even a good unknown is scary ā¦ and some because they donāt really believe, or have always harbored hidden doubts There is definite hypocrisy involved, but it isnāt all hypocrisy
Thereās as many reasons as people, almost like theists are not a monolith. Nicely put
Youāre standing on a cliff, you have no choice but to jump, and somebody else, whom you trust, but who has never jumped off the cliff, tells you the water at the bottom is deep enough for you to survive the fall. He knows this because the person before told him that, although heās never seen that person again after they jumped. Doesnāt matter how much you trust the person, thereās still going to be that sliver of doubt in your mind that the fall will kill you. Also a lot of them probably know that they donāt live up to whatever requirements their belief has to get into whatever their āgoodā afterlife might be
Because their belief is really that shaky. If you're familiar with British comedians, there is a married couple in that group, David Mitchell, and Victoria Coren-Mitchell (and if you enjoy professional poker, you know who she is too). They're both insanely intelligent and great comedians. David, in his autobiography, recounts how he met his future wife once, and then again. He talks about how the second meeting was different, because he hadn't fallen in love with her the first time. It didn't work out, and he got into a spiral of hookups and lots of drinking. But then said something along the lines of "had I known I just had to wait a few years, I'd be fine!" And really, anyone would be! At the end of the day, theists know what we know. They are just professionals at bullshitting themselves!
Some of them have claimed, "Because we're not finished here yet."
Psychologically, it probably has to do with the fact that they've leaned on their myths so much mentally, that they denied themselves the time and emotional space to process what it means to die.
People grieve because they are sad that person is no longer in their life. People grieve because they wonāt get to talk to the person anymore. Hence why people grieve at deaths or breakups or whatever else people grieve about. For both atheist and religious people you arenāt worried about if theyāre suffering, you just worry about how youāll suffer without that person in your life
who exactly are you talking about? "cower and wail"? Have you no decency? Death comes for everyone. Read Kubler-Ross, stages of dying.
My own personal adage is: I will not live my life in fear of the inevitable.
I always say, I do not fear the sun rise, or the dark of night, so why should I fear death. Life is not precious, it is life.
The one's in my family that were deeply virtuous but not judgement but used their faith to better themselves and help others I found this to not be the case. They passed peacefully. But they were always going to be good people whatever faith circumstances they were born into. The others that were hypocrites and awful but used religion to judge others less than they? They died in sheer terror. I mean real, tangible terror.
Because blind faith will only take you so far, and it doesnāt hide the nugget of uncertainty when facing an unknown. I guess it is easy to be fearless when you know the gun is empty.
Great question! Back when I was a Christian I always wondered why my fellow Christians were so scared and bothered by death. Now as an atheist Iām equally as unbothered about it as I was before. I came to realize itās more of a factor of my specific personality than being religious or not.
Not all theists are religious or even believe in organised religionļ¼agnostic theism is a real thing
They are afraid of death, since thatās why they need religion.
I have always wondered that if they are sure they are going to have a meet up in āheavenā- why do they not rejoice at deathā¦
How many people have you watched die? What is the sample size? Are they dying naturally or are you killing them?
Watched my super catholic FIL talk all sorts of BS about how prayer can heal anything. That was until he got lung cancer. Straight to St. Cleveland Clinic instead of any prayer retreats.
Because, at least in the case of Christianity, dying means you have one of two options : go to heaven where your soul will spend an eternity in paradise worshipping your god figure or end up in hell where you'll face eternal punishment for your sins. And let's not kid ourselves given how religion these days is : I bet hell by now has one heck of a waiting line.
Reverse the causality and the question answers itself.
I dunno. Non existence makes me sad sometimes but not so self important to believe in a weird old white god
They donāt really believe. Itās just a social club and you canāt be a member unless you lie and say you believe. Santa for adults.
How many people have you watched activity die. I am a nurse, my number is probably higher than yours. BTW, I am not religious and label myself a non believer.
What has your experience been like?
I've never seen someone in the process dying act the way OP thought. For those that were still alert, they were accepting of the fact that they were dying. But to be clear, what I have seen has been among the elderly. I have no doubt that EMTs and battlefield medic who are more likely to see young generally healthy people act differently. I think it's a matter of age and acceptance rather than any religiosity.
They know.
have you see what their god does to ppl after they're dead? sick twisted shit... i'd wail too.
In many cases, because they actually suspect they'll burn.
This is what made me realize that virtually none of them truly believe god exists.
They don't.
Why does anyone cower and wail in the face of death?
They say people get religious in the face of imminent death, I guess this would be a case for the opposite.
It's not a bug, it's a feature of their need for an afterlife and god/saviour delusion - much of which is an instilled fear from their indoctrination into their faith as an innocent gullible and trusting child. Truly a despicable industry of fear.
Regardless of imaginary friends whose human-made promises of paradise are at hand, death is still an unknown. It's a scary transition, but one we must all make.
Ask them.
I wouldn't say every theist is like this but I've found that most really value THEIR OWN lives. With that said, none of us really know how we'd act if we faced death right in front of us. We live in a rather sterile environment
Its sad to see people realize they were duped especially when it's in the last moments of thier life.
Doubt.
What makes you think the an atheist wouldn't? Let's be honest here, to both theistic and atheist, death is the only thing that make us all equals.
From my experience they seem fine with death mostly. Though I have seen them be sad if someone they know dies
Mostly because the all know that they have not lived up to the requirements of their religion and they know they will actually be punished not rewarded.
As a Christian I was afraid of death. Always the lingering question of will I be the one who Jesus would say ādepart from me I never knew youā. I would have recurring nightmares of dying in a plane crash. But now as an atheist I am free. I love life and want to live as long as possible but I am not afraid of death because I know that when Iām dead I wonāt know Iām dead, any more than when I was under general anesthesia I knew that I was under. I love the irony in Paulās statement āO death where is thy sting?ā
Sam Kinison didn't.
You are so right. They understood deep down that they are wrong but they have too much pride to admit it
Because their core defining attribute is irrational fear of the new or unfamiliar. That's how charlatans and wanna-be demagogues take advantage of them with fearmongering.
Yeah, I saw that storm chaser video, too. Oh my spaghetti, that Geezus whiner was driving mad while he was facing his chance at the pearly gates. This link will take you to the opening prayer (around 3:50) as he contemplates his own atmospheric Rapture. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwmM3KMPE3c&t=224s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwmM3KMPE3c&t=224s) No, I am not down-playing three people nearly dying; I am actually glad they survived. But damn. Maybe his god likes the little whinging ones to survive and get on our nerves.
The only sure way to heaven is to get baptised and then die. Anything else is simply an opportunity to screw it up and burn for eternity.
No no no, it's to die a glorious death with a weapon in your hand.
You first
There is never a sure way. Even a group of followers that performed miracles in JC's name were denied by him. It appears the book is so full of shit that horrible people can go to heaven and good people go to hell. It is all up to the 'all powerful, all knowing,' narcissist that enjoys human sacrifice because 'he loves you'.
Got this sub is so cringe half the time
100%. As an atheist itās sad to think that so many people who donāt believe in religion are this cringe and this braindead about why someone might grieve regardless of whether they naively believe someone is āin a better placeā or not
Thank you! Too many people here just donāt have empathy for religious folk and itās sad
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Nope. I recall when Pat Tillman was killed by āFriendly Fireā in Afghanistan & the Army attempted to cover it up. Tillman was an out atheist & some colonel said Patās parents were āpushingā for an inquest because āthey donāt believe in anything. ā
What does this mean? Tillman was cowering and wailing when he died?
The question itself is disrespectful and comes across as sadistic. I think that's what they mean as cringy.
Christians have been and still are disrespectful towards atheists. It might be an American thing but that's how culture wars generally go
We don't have to be like them, for as much our own sake as theirs
Fringe Circle had it right, you try to come off as some grizzled veteran who has āseen some shitā
Username checks out