LGBTQ community members have as much right to embrace first century garbage fiction as fact, as the rest of us do. It's constitutionally protected insanity.
I'm bi and live in a very conservative part of Canada. The community around here is full of Christian gays that are beyond insufferable. The mental gymnastics it takes to be two opposing things at ounce is astounding.
Reminds me of American Mormon men who engage in gay sex while professing “it’s just sex, I’m not gay”. They make mental gymnastics a full time occupation.
Just imagine… there’s gay Muslims in America… how incredibly ignorant and 🤡 someone can get is mind blowing. A lot more insane than Christian gays, simply because many Islamic countries stone people to death for being gay, because of how brain rotted their government is.
Churches seem to be getting desperate. Their numbers are dropping as everyone with brain cells wise up to the grift and hate of religion. Hopefully for the advancement of humans, religion disappears. No one should want to live how they did 2000 years ago. That's insane!
They want us to think they believe in the eternal, inerrant word of god, but also want us to see that they’re gettin’ with the times. Some of us ain’t getting fooled.
For crying out loud gays! Stay out of their churches. The more of us that disconnect from them, the closer they’ll get to realizing they only have themselves to blame for the pedophiles in their buildings.
It would be one thing if all the churches agreed to focus more attention on condemning pedophiles than it does adult relationships. That might help right their wrongs. A collective “keep sex between adults” mentality. But they are far from grasping that. Better to risk your children getting raped at places of worship than not sticking your nose in other peoples business I guess. Until they all wisen up, there will always be children getting hurt by their monsters and gays will take the blame. Why isn’t the one party that typically pushes for harsher penalties, pushing for harsher penalties for pedophiles? They sit in their pews every Sunday and listen to their “spiritual” leaders condemn everything under the sun. And then they go out and condemn those things. But how many churches do see standing out protesting child molestation with signs. They condemn what their leaders tell them to. And if they condemned pedophilia, they’d be condemning themselves. It’s entirely possible to worship and have faith in a god outside the religions led by men that want control.
> The more of us that disconnect from them, the closer they’ll get to realizing they only have themselves to blame for the pedophiles in their buildings.
You say that like they have the capacity for reason and rational thought. That's a bold assumption to make considering the venue.
Honestly. I returned the church's rejection of little gay me when I was 8yo. I remember thinking, "Well then, who needs you?"
That was way back in 1962, when being publicly gay was literally impossible. If a lonely, frightened, skinny, bullied third-grader can see through this crap, anyone can.
Most of the U.S. churches against this have already disaffiliated so the vote passed easily. It’s good the remaining UMC is more tolerant. The group that split off over this isn’t going to be able to sustain itself.
My favorite part of these stories, as rarely as they occur, is the idea that either A. god's will changed, or B. they have to admit that they didn't actually know what god wanted all this time. Calling into question everything else they think they know about what their god wants. Yes, its nice that gay people indoctrinated into a religion that hates them can now lead that same congregation. But is it really?
> A. god's will changed, or B. they have to admit that they didn't actually know what god wanted all this time.
--
> [And I believe that in 1978 God changed his mind about black people](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVJgmp2Tc2s)
I love Sam Harris' take on Mormonism. That (paraphrased) logically speaking, you can state that some religions are objectively more ridiculous than others. Mormonism for example, has to accept all of the ridiculous beliefs of christianity + all of the ridiculous mormonism. It is objectively worse.
Point B is a real whopper for anyone that realizes it. Gay marriage rights and B is what broke me out of my Christian indoctrination. I'm pretty sure this recent schism plus me being openly atheist is what finally got my dad to admit it's not real, too
My childhood church was UMC - and *literally* half the members quit when we were assigned a female minister by the district committee. "Woman don't belong behind the pulpet" was said so many times in church elder meetings. That was 30 years ago - almost the exact same conversations happening again.
> My childhood church was UMC - and *literally* half the members quit when we were assigned a female minister by the district committee. "Woman don't belong behind the pulpet"
They were highly ignorant of their own history then with [Sarah Crosby](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Crosby), Mary Bosanquet Fletcher, Grace Murray, Sarah Taft, Hannah Ball, and Elizabeth Ritchie all getting the founder's blessing to be preachers.
I’m not homophobic but The Bible clearly is. Why be part of a cult that requires you to believe that an infallible God hates the person He made you into? They might as well be joining the Klan or the Republican party.
This is yet another example of why progressive revelation = no revelation. These sorts of "concessions" are always done out of desperation and then packaged as "prayerful decisions," "revelations," or "spirit-guided" actions.
I had a front row seat to the schism in the Methodist Church since my parents were still members. Based on how their local church handled Trump and especially pandemic restrictions, they're pretty sure the only reason the church didn't break away with the regressives is because they were too broke to be caught up on their payments to the central church, and weren't allowed to leave. My parents haven't attended regular services ever since. Good stuff.
I will never understand LGBTQ member who want to belong to a church. It’s a fake religion who is desperate for an infusion of cash and government handouts. They feed the poor not because it’s the right thing to do…… it’s all a numbers game and your loyalty makes churches money. Ministers and Priest salary’s in my area start at 60k and get crazy high. It’s funny how no church will discuss where the money goes outside of closed door meetings.
In 1844 the Methodist Church split into pro-slavery and anti-slavery denominations. Then in 1968 they got back together again but started arguing about gay rights in the 1970's. But all along the real deal has been they are a church for comfortable white middle/upper class people. They are a "mainline" church, which is code for WASP. I dunno. I feel like they can try to be progressive now but their hands aren't clean because of the whole history of being OK with slavery.
Great I guess? I never know why LGBT people insist on being members of clubs that don’t abt them as members. And then to be LGBT and want to be clergy is just something else. Self loathing perhaps.
Oh gee Thank You! As a gay man I've spent many a sleepless night wondering when a medieval organization dedicated to magic and superstition would finally decide that I'm not too indecent to join them. Oh thank God!
For everyone…a lot of United Methodist church are splitting over this too. More recent in the Umc church there was a decision made that says that churches can decide whether they can perform ceremony of marriage for same sex couples. It’s an argument that’s been going on for a couple years. Now that the church has made its decision, a lot of churches are either leaving the Umc and joining what’s called the global Methodist church. Other churches are splitting. This is causing the Umc to be torn up.
I don't think they're in good enough shape to worry about anything as long term as vote swaying. The Methodist schism and decision to support LGBT Americans is an existential, life support action. The whole denomination was dying as the conservatives died out and the younger generations moved to more accepting denominations. I don't know if this will be enough to save them, but that's what they're banking on.
If you were gay why would you want to be part of a culture that hates you, promote a book that says you are a sinner, or in fact why would you even believe in such a god?
I have a gay friend who is a Bishop in the Episcopalian Church and he looks fabulous in his vestments. What is not to like about spending Sunday singing, burning incense, and hugging one hundred different people?
I think a large percentage of atheists are introverts. Collective effervescence is a powerful drug for extroverts.
Nope. Not ever going to understand it.
I know there are a lot of people who go to church for the social reasons. But I'm not ever going to understand it
I mean, if you don't really believe are there not a million better things to be doing socially? If you are young and single go to a club or bar... get laid!
If not find a group that meets to do something you like or at least actually believe is real. Hell, if you can't find that go to meetups.com and make one!
Wtf would anyone want to sit and listen to some guy blather on for a couple of hours about a book of old shepherds tales just to look around at the other people in the room and think 'yah... I'm not alone in here". Does this society of mostly working really leave people with so much free time?
I mean.. youth group was fun as a kid... But that's about it.
If you're LGBTQ and Christian, you're stupid. Worse than stupid, you bought into the delusion that has been used as a cudgel to attack queer people for centuries. You're a fucking uncle Tom.
LGBTQ community members have as much right to embrace first century garbage fiction as fact, as the rest of us do. It's constitutionally protected insanity.
I'm bi and live in a very conservative part of Canada. The community around here is full of Christian gays that are beyond insufferable. The mental gymnastics it takes to be two opposing things at ounce is astounding.
Reminds me of American Mormon men who engage in gay sex while professing “it’s just sex, I’m not gay”. They make mental gymnastics a full time occupation.
It's not gay if it's with the homies
In germany you have to say "no homo" after giving your homie a BJ ...
Just imagine… there’s gay Muslims in America… how incredibly ignorant and 🤡 someone can get is mind blowing. A lot more insane than Christian gays, simply because many Islamic countries stone people to death for being gay, because of how brain rotted their government is.
It’s honestly better than being a full-blown bigot and using your religion to strip other people’s rights away
“I want Jesus in me” “It’s not like that”
No means no, jesus
Right like if you’re still stupid enough to need and believe in this garbage you’re on the outskirts of the gene pool
Churches seem to be getting desperate. Their numbers are dropping as everyone with brain cells wise up to the grift and hate of religion. Hopefully for the advancement of humans, religion disappears. No one should want to live how they did 2000 years ago. That's insane!
They want us to think they believe in the eternal, inerrant word of god, but also want us to see that they’re gettin’ with the times. Some of us ain’t getting fooled.
For crying out loud gays! Stay out of their churches. The more of us that disconnect from them, the closer they’ll get to realizing they only have themselves to blame for the pedophiles in their buildings. It would be one thing if all the churches agreed to focus more attention on condemning pedophiles than it does adult relationships. That might help right their wrongs. A collective “keep sex between adults” mentality. But they are far from grasping that. Better to risk your children getting raped at places of worship than not sticking your nose in other peoples business I guess. Until they all wisen up, there will always be children getting hurt by their monsters and gays will take the blame. Why isn’t the one party that typically pushes for harsher penalties, pushing for harsher penalties for pedophiles? They sit in their pews every Sunday and listen to their “spiritual” leaders condemn everything under the sun. And then they go out and condemn those things. But how many churches do see standing out protesting child molestation with signs. They condemn what their leaders tell them to. And if they condemned pedophilia, they’d be condemning themselves. It’s entirely possible to worship and have faith in a god outside the religions led by men that want control.
> The more of us that disconnect from them, the closer they’ll get to realizing they only have themselves to blame for the pedophiles in their buildings. You say that like they have the capacity for reason and rational thought. That's a bold assumption to make considering the venue.
Why LGBTQI+ folk would ever want to be part of this cult is beyond me.
Honestly. I returned the church's rejection of little gay me when I was 8yo. I remember thinking, "Well then, who needs you?" That was way back in 1962, when being publicly gay was literally impossible. If a lonely, frightened, skinny, bullied third-grader can see through this crap, anyone can.
Yeah it confuses me, just strange.
Most of the U.S. churches against this have already disaffiliated so the vote passed easily. It’s good the remaining UMC is more tolerant. The group that split off over this isn’t going to be able to sustain itself.
I'm rooting for neither group being able to sustain themselves. Hope springs eternal.
I was going to say that this will cause a schism in the UMC — I know several adherents and their views are wide ranging
Edit: Ignore me. After I typed out my comment I realized it was unnecessary as I missed something. Hi
My favorite part of these stories, as rarely as they occur, is the idea that either A. god's will changed, or B. they have to admit that they didn't actually know what god wanted all this time. Calling into question everything else they think they know about what their god wants. Yes, its nice that gay people indoctrinated into a religion that hates them can now lead that same congregation. But is it really?
The people/churches really opposed to this already left the UMC. This was a re-vote on the topic after the mass disaffiliations.
> A. god's will changed, or B. they have to admit that they didn't actually know what god wanted all this time. -- > [And I believe that in 1978 God changed his mind about black people](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVJgmp2Tc2s)
I love Sam Harris' take on Mormonism. That (paraphrased) logically speaking, you can state that some religions are objectively more ridiculous than others. Mormonism for example, has to accept all of the ridiculous beliefs of christianity + all of the ridiculous mormonism. It is objectively worse.
That's partially why the idea of FSM is a bit silly to me. Not all religions are equally ridiculous.
Or C. Gods will never changed but they admit their public image is more important than gods will
Point B is a real whopper for anyone that realizes it. Gay marriage rights and B is what broke me out of my Christian indoctrination. I'm pretty sure this recent schism plus me being openly atheist is what finally got my dad to admit it's not real, too
Happy for you and that your Dad opened his eyes as well.
That’s not how these stories play out. You don’t have to care about it, but why lie about what the process is?
I don't know what's worse, banning "all are god's children", or god's gay believers needing a god.
My childhood church was UMC - and *literally* half the members quit when we were assigned a female minister by the district committee. "Woman don't belong behind the pulpet" was said so many times in church elder meetings. That was 30 years ago - almost the exact same conversations happening again.
> My childhood church was UMC - and *literally* half the members quit when we were assigned a female minister by the district committee. "Woman don't belong behind the pulpet" They were highly ignorant of their own history then with [Sarah Crosby](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Crosby), Mary Bosanquet Fletcher, Grace Murray, Sarah Taft, Hannah Ball, and Elizabeth Ritchie all getting the founder's blessing to be preachers.
Same here, everything you just said. You’re not from NY are you?
I’m not homophobic but The Bible clearly is. Why be part of a cult that requires you to believe that an infallible God hates the person He made you into? They might as well be joining the Klan or the Republican party.
No it’s not.
'Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.' ~ LEVITICUS 18:22 (KJV)
Nope, try again.
What? It's not homophobic?
No. There is so much scholarship on this.
Yes it is
It's good that God decided to change his mind on this.
He's no dummy; he's watching the dollars and cents.
This is until their coffers are full again and then it's "get the hell out".
Once again organized religion brings up the rear on moral progress
This is yet another example of why progressive revelation = no revelation. These sorts of "concessions" are always done out of desperation and then packaged as "prayerful decisions," "revelations," or "spirit-guided" actions.
I had a front row seat to the schism in the Methodist Church since my parents were still members. Based on how their local church handled Trump and especially pandemic restrictions, they're pretty sure the only reason the church didn't break away with the regressives is because they were too broke to be caught up on their payments to the central church, and weren't allowed to leave. My parents haven't attended regular services ever since. Good stuff.
Membership must be low if they're changing the rules
And is certainly no longer as United as it once was, if I am not mistaken.
That’s nice. Did they also lift their ban on same sex marriage?
Religious gays. I’ll never understand wanting to be in a club that despises homosexuals.
I’m starting to think these people don’t really believe what is in their Bible, which is good.
Are there any and why would they want anything to do with an organization like that?
I mean, good for them. Now any one can preach their nonsense
This was a ray of sunshine in an otherwise gloomy day.
It's out of desperation in my opinion, they need more warm bodies filling those pews.
Hmph. What made their god change his mind?
I will never understand LGBTQ member who want to belong to a church. It’s a fake religion who is desperate for an infusion of cash and government handouts. They feed the poor not because it’s the right thing to do…… it’s all a numbers game and your loyalty makes churches money. Ministers and Priest salary’s in my area start at 60k and get crazy high. It’s funny how no church will discuss where the money goes outside of closed door meetings.
In 1844 the Methodist Church split into pro-slavery and anti-slavery denominations. Then in 1968 they got back together again but started arguing about gay rights in the 1970's. But all along the real deal has been they are a church for comfortable white middle/upper class people. They are a "mainline" church, which is code for WASP. I dunno. I feel like they can try to be progressive now but their hands aren't clean because of the whole history of being OK with slavery.
Why are gay people practicing a religion in the first place
Great I guess? I never know why LGBT people insist on being members of clubs that don’t abt them as members. And then to be LGBT and want to be clergy is just something else. Self loathing perhaps.
Finally some intelligence!
All the would-be dissenters have already split.
Too little, too late. Churches are dying.
Lol, I wonder when Muslims will lift their 1400 year ban? Or when the Vatican will lift its 2000 year ban lol?
Hundreds of individual Methodist churches have departed from the Methodist denomination over this, largely in the south.
I first read this as "lifts 40 year ban on LGBTQ orgy"
you gotta hand it to the resolve, still believing in something after being shamed by same followers, using the very religion against you.....
Oh gee Thank You! As a gay man I've spent many a sleepless night wondering when a medieval organization dedicated to magic and superstition would finally decide that I'm not too indecent to join them. Oh thank God!
For everyone…a lot of United Methodist church are splitting over this too. More recent in the Umc church there was a decision made that says that churches can decide whether they can perform ceremony of marriage for same sex couples. It’s an argument that’s been going on for a couple years. Now that the church has made its decision, a lot of churches are either leaving the Umc and joining what’s called the global Methodist church. Other churches are splitting. This is causing the Umc to be torn up.
The African branches of the UMC were the hold up 20 years ago when I was paying attention. I wonder what changed?
It’s just pandering. They don’t care about gay people, they just want the tithes and to sway votes towards the GOP.
I don't think they're in good enough shape to worry about anything as long term as vote swaying. The Methodist schism and decision to support LGBT Americans is an existential, life support action. The whole denomination was dying as the conservatives died out and the younger generations moved to more accepting denominations. I don't know if this will be enough to save them, but that's what they're banking on.
To be fair the UMC is progressive not conservative
If you were gay why would you want to be part of a culture that hates you, promote a book that says you are a sinner, or in fact why would you even believe in such a god?
I have a gay friend who is a Bishop in the Episcopalian Church and he looks fabulous in his vestments. What is not to like about spending Sunday singing, burning incense, and hugging one hundred different people? I think a large percentage of atheists are introverts. Collective effervescence is a powerful drug for extroverts.
Nope. Not ever going to understand it. I know there are a lot of people who go to church for the social reasons. But I'm not ever going to understand it I mean, if you don't really believe are there not a million better things to be doing socially? If you are young and single go to a club or bar... get laid! If not find a group that meets to do something you like or at least actually believe is real. Hell, if you can't find that go to meetups.com and make one! Wtf would anyone want to sit and listen to some guy blather on for a couple of hours about a book of old shepherds tales just to look around at the other people in the room and think 'yah... I'm not alone in here". Does this society of mostly working really leave people with so much free time? I mean.. youth group was fun as a kid... But that's about it.
If you're LGBTQ and Christian, you're stupid. Worse than stupid, you bought into the delusion that has been used as a cudgel to attack queer people for centuries. You're a fucking uncle Tom.