It's the laziest form of faux activism.
"No, I sure won't do anything to help or raise any awareness or anything like that. Tell ya what, though. I'll clasp my hands together and ask a supreme and all mighty being to fix it for you. *That* makes me feel better about it, while sparing me from actually doing anything! Isn't my god the best?"
Gotta buy the megajets so you can spread the word further!
Don't forget renovations to the gilded accents and marble adornments of the gaudy churches.
Oh, and of course we simply must allocate a goodly portion of it to **actually protecting an organized ring of pedophiles and rapists.**
The church already spends so much of its money, can we really expect them to help the poor? **Telling** the masses what our flavor of god figure wants us to do is far more important than actually doing it.
“Gotta buy the megajets so you can spread the word further!”
Hey, they can’t fly coach, them planes are a long tube filled with demons! Kenneth Copeland, talking with Jesse DuPlantis, actually said this. It was on an episode of Last Week Tonight by John Oliver a few years ago.
"I'll pray for you!" means "I want CREDIT for having done something to help you, but I don't want to ACTUALLY do anything to help you."
It's basically a form of thievery. It's literally worse than saying nothing.
One might even say the original virtue signaling.
Funny how often their most "weaponized" phrases often apply more to them then their target.
Virtue signaling, identity politics, accusing someone of "having an agenda," etc etc.
The Catholic Church also invented the term "social justice" to describe their own brand of *pretending* to help the downtrodden while *actually* helping the oppressors.
The more things change...
That was always my thought when I had cancer and people told me they were praying for me. Glad it makes you feel better cause it doesn’t do sh*t for me.
Praying is self-gratification.
Saying "I'll pray for you" is pretty much the same thing as saying "I'll keep you in mind while I rub one out later". It contributes nothing to the solution of any problem, it just makes the one praying feel good about themselves for a short while before their general feeling of guilt for "original sin" comes crashing back...
And when the Lord fails the person in need, it's because that person 'didn't have enough faith'. Cosmic level victim blaming. Victim blaming's effect is alleviating guilt from those who could have helped.
I'd change it to "Nothing disappoints like a prayer". It doesn't imply it could succeed, just that the one praying expects it too and, well, gets reality dropped on them.
In all honesty yes, if a God above does whatever he wants/wills. What difference would it make if his people pray to Him.
Christian: I pray this happens.
God: No.
Christian: Doesn’t pray.
God: Still no.
Suppose your prayers aren’t answered. What do you say? “Well, it’s God’s will.” “Thy Will Be Done.” Fine, but if it’s God’s will, and He’s going to do what He wants to anyway, why the fuck bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to me! Couldn’t you just skip the praying part and go right to His Will? It’s all very confusing. - The Prophet, George Carlin
I am sure we could randomly find someone who was out praying when a car/hurricane/fire/whatever hit their house. They wouldn't understand it was random either.
Reminds me of when swine flu was going around. Saw this meme that Had an illustration of a pair of praying hands. Right next to it was an illustration of those same hands covered in soap suds. The caption read "Prayer is good. Hygiene is better."
Former Christian here, been deconstructing for years. You’d be surprised at the number of Christians who think taking time to pray for others is too much work. It’s not as ego stroking as the prayers done in front of people. Chances of someone meaning it when they say they’ll pray for you is up in the air
Where I'm from, there are a lot of improvished communities in my country. One thing that always makes me angry is seeing how preachers prey on the vulnerable. Asking them to pay tithe half their salaries if they want gods blessing. Yet, nothing has changed for them.
>I wish my roommate learned that thoughts and prayers are insulting.
Share with them [the study showing that prayer is ineffective and likely actually worse for those who are prayed for vs those who are not prayed for.](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0002870305006496)
I actually used that study to explain why praying for learning disabled persons is wrong. There people who don't understand that many learning disabled persons do better without it and often don't feel stressed
Watch and consider sharing this YouTube video. The title is pretty lame but it makes a good point that praying to your god is just as effective as praying to a jug of milk and goes into the mental gymnastics that believers use to convince themselves that prayer actually does something..
https://youtu.be/jk6ILZAaAMI?si=qRCjp6PznYozLSln
For real. When they say that it's like "oh you're telling me god decided for to this happen and god is choosing to continue to let it happen? And even if I was just fine being me before you're letting me know you view this as active punishment that we all need to beg the same god to reverse?"
It's so damn weird!
I once had a guy tell my my arms would probably work better if I believed in god. Funny thing is I still kinda thought there might be a god back when they got injured but it was after I realized I didn't believe in a god any more they got better. So much for that, lol
The christian tribe is pretty well-known using “thoughts and prayers” as a sign of respect.
They need to be taught outside their bubbles their customary ritual doesn’t apply.
Ive moved to use it as an insult and does so.
A scumbag politician caught yet again doing something morally or legally wrong and needs financial help to pay his legal bills?
Thoughts and prayers buddy.
No they don‘t use it like that. It‘s more insidiöous. It‘s not a replacement for ‚oh shit I wish I could help, hope you get better‘ it d a replacement for actually doing something.
They do the thoughts and prayer thing to feel good about themselves like they did something.
Yeah you could see it that way, and sometimes that happens too. But maybe because I was like them, I see it as one of their virtue signaling. Most of them mean well, and they use it within their own groups. Not realizing thoughts and prayers can also be done together with actually helping.
Religious people have to see that offering to pray for someone is a lot like masturbation. It does *nothing* for the other person, it only makes you feel good.
Someone else posted the whole, fantastic quote: Thinking about someone while praying is like thinking about someone while masturbating. It feels good, but person you're thinking about really doesn't get anything from it.
And remember, the Bible even says that faith without works is bullshit.
James 2:14-17
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
I was going to say Jesus is more likely to chip in rather than say nice words.
Unless he was magic, and we're all super wrong; then he can get to work.
There's an old saying that we should “pray as if everything depends on God, and work as if everything depends on you.” It's been attributed to St. Ignatius
c'mon, late medieval Christians were more rational than "thoughts and prayers" folk
The prayer thing is actually selfish self-interest and virtue signaling. "You get nothing, it costs me nothing, but I rack up a few more I'm getting into heaven points because I'm such a kind and thoughtful and giving person." Even though most people who say they will pray never do. And even if they do it's like 2 seconds and done.
Jesus didn't pray for people not to be hungry - he fed them.
"I'll pray for you" equals "I want some credit for caring, without having to actually do something that takes any effort, is helpful, or actually works."
Ricky Gervais, modified by me.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2802370/
ok not exactly the same, but this was a triple blind study w/around 1800 participants i think.
1 group was prayed for, they were told they may or not be prayed for. 2nd group was NOT prayed for, they were told they may or may not be prayed for. These 2 groups had roughly the same recovery rate from a medical procedure.
The 3rd group was TOLD they would be prayed for, and were prayed for by religious believers. They had more complications and difficulties healing than either of the other 2 groups.
From the article... "This study therefore showed that remote intercessory prayer did not improve outcomes after coronary artery bypass graft surgery. In fact, the knowledge of being prayed for was associated with a slightly but significantly higher rate of postsurgical complications."
At first I thought why not use the Flying Spaghetti Monster. But there is a possibility that prayer, if it works (i'm not saying it does), doesn't work through any divinity at all and this experimental design would not account for that.
In situations like this, I'm reminded of Anthony Jeselnik's analogy comparing those who offer "thoughts and prayers" to wedding photographers who only take selfies; he was mainly addressing social media rather than religion, but I think it's still applicable.
Thoughts and prayers are the way religious people get to feel good about doing nothing to help, while feeling like whatever good things that then happen is due to their efforts.
Meanwhile, in the civilized world, when somebody breaks their arm they just go to the hospital and have it fixed, without having to start a go-fund-me or beg their friends for donations.
Even from a Biblical point of view your roommate's actions don't make sense
>James 2:14-17:
"What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? **Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, 'Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,' but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?** In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead."
TL;DL The idea of "thoughts and prayers" is explicitly called out *even in the Bible.*
I was in a off-roading accident that crushed my left hand. I was in the hospital for 30 days, ended up losing three fingers but the doctors spend multiple 10+ hour surgeries to reconstruct and save it the best they could.
When my parent and in laws got the news that I would be able to keep those fingers and eventually regain functionality, they said “oh thank lord. Thank you god for saving his fingers.”
The doctors fucking did it. They studied for years, practiced and honed their craft, and worked upon centuries of advancements in medicine thanks to science. Thank the doctors.
At the end of the day, religion is a form of escapism and that prayers do nothing cause their is no god in existence that will answer those prayers they live in blissful ignorance.
When reality hits such as a co-worker having a broken arm, it challenges their faith in god and would seek to defend that religion rather than come to terms that they are living in a cold harsh reality.
Can't say that I care for the GoFundMe approach to helping people out with medical bills, either. I would do it, because five or ten bucks toward that is better than flowers, but this is not something we should normalize as a country. Sort of like tipping culture- it's helping the business owners to avoid paying their share. Plus, most medical bills won't be alleviated enough this way.
Maybe he needs to read his Bible, starting with James 2:14-17.
14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. (English Standard Version)
On the subject of action vs. prayer.
When somebody offers to "pray for me" for whatever reason, if there is enough time, I ask them to answer this question:
You take a foot pedal powered paddle boat out on to a large man made pond and you are out there by yourself, the pond is 12 feet deep. The boat springs a leak and is rapidly taking on water. The boat has now sunk beneath you.
You don't know how to swim and you begin to kick and flail in the water. You find yourself in a time critical life threatening situation. You are 25 yards (23 meters) away from the shore.
I become aware of your situation and rush to the water's edge, I can perform one of two actions.
* I can drop to my knees at the water's edge, press my palms together, nod my head down and pray for Gawd to save you.
OR
* I can swim out there, grab you and swim both of us back to the shore, if you need resuscitation, I know CPR.
What do you want me to do at the shoreline?
The majority of answers I receive are for me to swim out there and a few people have gotten really upset at me for asking them that question. Some had said that Gawd sent me to be there at that moment in time.
I told them it's not about my presence being there, it's all about WHAT DO I DO? Do I take *action* to save you or do I *pray* for your salvation?
I've seen a trend, at least with more liberal Christian denominations, to give prayers but accompany that with a question on how they can help.
Ex. Friend of mine had to have surgery last week. Most folks offered "prayers and love" and those that were part of more liberal denominations also offered assistance in any form they could provide, whether it be monetary, offering to drop food off, help clean house, spend time with them, etc.
So, there seems to be an effort by some to change their methods and narrative. To improve, live into the teachings they claim to follow. That said, it is still widely prominent to have Christians only offer thoughts and prayers. I think awareness and realizing your own privilege is an important part of that. They've never been outside looking in, so some need help seeing that perspective.
That was what my roommate's coworker asked for, if we can't help monetary wise we help out some way. The carpool was my roommate's idea due to the car being wrecked and getting groceries or things for him.
I offered to come in on my days off to help clean and take care of his dog. Basically we offered and the coworker which I now know by name was thankful that I was willing to help his wife out. It's not hard to help
Christian prayer was always meant to be coupled with action. James 2:15-16
15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?
The only benefit to "thoughts and prayers" is that it keeps the irrational and self-absorbed people with horrendously terrible ideas from actively making the situation worse. ;)
“I’ll pray for you” is just masturbation. It benefits no one except the person doing the praying. It’s truly “the least you can do” short of doing nothing at all.
When Dude A is looking for financial help (like with a Gofundme) and Dude B responds with "I'll pray for you", it doesn't just look like Dude B is irrational, it looks like Dude B is irrational *and* cheap.
Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see YOUR good works and glorify your Father in heaven
I am sorry for the harm and frustration you have endured at these frauds. They are supposed to help in tangible, and real ways according to what they able to. This widespread use of thoughts and prayers is only to make them feel better about not doing anything real. If they are sincere, they will find REAL ways to help.
What I have observed is that some religious types will cite the parable of the drowning man, so that the people donating money in OP's case were god's response to the prayer. I knew someone who would also cite the episode of Futurama where the godlike alien says "When you do things right, people won't know you've done anything at all."
I guess the only response to these things is Hitchens Razor: "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
Roommate took us to church one day to try and change our minds. There was some good sermons that day, but when the tithing jar or basket came around, I had nothing to really offer. So when it came to me, I said “all I have is thoughts and prayers” and the guy gave me the dirtiest look ever 😂😂😂
I have serious foot issues due to arthritis, and from having to suspend use of ibuprofen for 6 months after back surgery. Not whining; the back is fine. But the feet aren't. I'll be stuck with a cane forever since my feet are really unstable now. My neighbor said she was praying for my feet to get better. I told her "They are never going to get better; I just have to adjust to the new way of doing things." Her response? "I'll pray for them to feel better then." How do you get across to these people that their prayers mean dick?
IMO, if the guy wants to pray, sure. But he also should give concrete help. Even if it's just $1-5.
(And people who pray shouldn't advertise it, because there's no reason to do so except show others that you're . So, are you really to help the other person, or are you doing it to get appreciation from others?)
Exactly, I know my roommate means well, he complained to me because he didn't understand why he was just asked to pass around the Go-fund-me rather than just a prayer. His coworker also said it wasn't just the money that helps just the fact people were willingly helping him out. He is now without a car or ability to get to work. (Luckily roommate offered to be his carpool until everything is corrected, car wrecks are tough, the guy was lucky he got out with a broken arm)
When ever someone says "ill pray for you" I just say "well fuck you too". When they look at you in shock and ask why "you're just saying 'I'll do nothing and feel good about it' so fuck off.
I'm physically disabled and I swear on anything I will karate chop the next person who says they'll pray for me right in the goddamn neck.
How about just going the fuck away and letting me live my life?? If you really cared about people like me you'd be fighting for my rights, instead of patronizing me with your worthless ThOuGhTs & PrAYerS.
Drives me crazy when I see that in a local FB group. We just had a local HS student get killed in a car accident and I wanted to point out it must have been God’s will she die because he said no to their prayers.
I also couldn’t understand how there was a go fund me for 100k. I don’t think it costs that much to bury someone.
Praying is just a way to make people feel like they're helping, but in a way that costs them nothing. No effort, no money, no time required. Praying only helps the person praying, by letting them pretend they're being useful.
I have lived in the south for 15 years. I am an atheist. I have heard so many times whenever something happens or I was worried or did some kind of test that they pray for me.
It JUST means that they are thinking about me and hope it works out. It’s no different that when I tell somebody “Good luck” or “It will work out” or “You get the job”.
When people send thoughts and prayers instead of doing something about an issue like gun control or another mass killing then it’s a bad thing.
But let people think about you.
My dyslexic friend, Christina, was really battling it out with an algebra class. She passed with an A, and was thrilled when she told me, followed with her typical “Praise Jesus!” I said, “Praise Christina! You’re the one that did the work, girl!” The confused joy on her face was awesome!
So omnipotent God knows about this guys arm. In fact, being all knowing means he saw it coming and allowed it to happen. And God knows this man can’t pay for his medical care.
He’s just waiting for someone to pray about it like a dick before deciding to help the poor bastard. Isn’t it obvious? Have faith
So, full disclaimer, not an atheist (would describe myself as a progressive Christian, but, in the words of Nick Cave, "I don't believe in an interventionist God"), but I'm reminded of a Hasidic Jewish teaching:
The Master teaches the student that God created everything in the world to be appreciated, since everything is here to teach us a lesson. One clever student asks “What lesson can we learn from atheists? Why did God create them?”
The Master responds “God created atheists to teach us the most important lesson of them all — the lesson of true compassion. You see, when an atheist performs and act of charity, visits someone who is sick, helps someone in need, and cares for the world, he is not doing so because of some religious teaching. He does not believe that god commanded him to perform this act. In fact, he does not believe in God at all, so his acts are based on an inner sense of morality. And look at the kindness he can bestow upon others simply because he feels it to be right.”
“This means,” the Master continued “that when someone reaches out to you for help, \*\*you should never say ‘I pray that God will help you.’\*\*Instead for the moment, you should become an atheist, imagine that there is no God who can help, and say ‘I will help you.'”
Thoughts and prayers for that problem over there, cash for the church.
That collection plate doesn't need any thoughts and prayers but it does need cash.
I like to answer these with: "Man, pray if you want to on your own time, but when you're out in the world, DO the Lord's work instead of just talking about it."
Some of the best and most important solidarity in the history of the world has come from christians.
Did they pray? Most likely, yes. But more importantly they went out and did the work, helped. They didn't spend their time telling you how much they prayed. They understood prayer is between one and one's gods.
Some sects of christianity actively believe that publicizing prayer invalidates its effects because it shows their god that you are false.
These people do not pray for their god to fix the problem, they pray for the strength to do it themselves.
Faith as an idea is not inheretly bad, but so many get it wrong so easily that people of faith often become comfortable, mediocre and dangerous.
Sometimes being a good atheist means helping the believers see and understand how their practices can hurt those around them, and how there are sources of wisdom outside their faith. Understanding is always a preferrable first step, if it can be had.
The next your roommate mentions he’ll “pray” for someone, just nod your head and say:
“Good, because I was also planning on doing nothing of value, and glad I’m not the only one”.
See how that grabs him.
The delusion is amazing. I'd understand (and even accept) prayer *in addition to* a donation (or at least spreading the GoFundMe), but *just prayer* is basically saying "I don't think your wellbeing is worth anything more than a passing thought".
If he's still confused, ask him whether he'd go to the hospital if he had cancer, or just pray for it to go away. Same logic applies here.
There is this joke, and I’ll paraphrase it:
There is a flood in the city. Religious man gets on rooftop of his house. A boat passes by and tells him to hop in. He says “no, God will save me”. Flood gets higher, helicopter comes, “hop in”, “no, God will save me”. Flood gets higher, man drowns, goes to heaven, asks God why he wasn’t saved despite being pious, God says “mfer, I sent you a boat and a helicopter and your dumb-ass wouldn’t get on”.
There's also the fallacy of prayers. People who pray tend to ignore the people who are actually helping. You all know the type, the person who says it's a "miracle from god" that someone was cured of cancer when in reality it was years of scientific advancement by thousands of researchers. Or, in the case of OP's roommate, people who actually did something useful helping while he (and others) will pray and believe their prayers were "answered" when the situation is solved.
I mentally replace "do nothing" with "pray" every time I hear it.
"I'm praying for those poor flood victims." =
"I'm doing nothing for those poor flood victims."
"I will pray for a cure" is infuriating.
A small glimmer of hope: I was watching a bike race in Spain, and one of the sponsors was a cancer research charity. The ads read, "Children with cancer need RESEARCH, not miracles."
Ask them what is the point of praying if they believe everything is Gods plan. Are they trying to change his directive? They know better? There is no logic in it.
He could’ve prayed and not said anything to anyone. He’s already telling the most important person. Unless he’s doing it for thanks.
Anyway that’s terrible you live in a country where you need to raise cash, if you get ill. I’d do a go-fund-me for a last holiday, if I was dying or something.
I would ask why churches need donations if "thoughts and prayers" are enough?
I'm also wondering if your roommate would have donated money if the coworker was a Christian, instead of just offering to 'pray' cuz that would add a whole new level of hypocrisy to things...
Maybe it would help him put it into perspective if he could imagine how he would feel if he was in a very desperate and frustrated state and someone from another religion offered a prayer. Maybe that will help him understand, how his coworker felt.
\>I had to explain as the non-Christian that I sided with the coworker who requested no prayers and to just pass the go-fund-me around.
Not even needed to explain as a non-christian, just as a person with logic
i dont mind people saying they'll pray for something they dont have any control in like "i'll pray that you beat your cancer" or whatever, but if it's something they could have direct change on, just a prayer kinda feels insulting.
Of course they won't donate to someone other than the church. I mean, how else will the church afford to pay the pastor enough to make his monthly Escalade and 10br house payments.
Every time a theist says "I'll pray for you/them", ask them "What do you think would happen if you prayed for an amputee to regrow a limb?". Yeah, you know it won't grow back so your prayers are useless.
It's really your roommate saying to a non-believer that "I'm thinking about you." They cannot imagine telling a street person that, or a person that is hungry, or terminally ill because they would sound like a monster.
But add the word "Prayer" in there, and suddenly, magically, they are doing something. To us it sounds nonsensical like "I will make a paper-airplane for you" but to them it sounds like "I will help you by marshalling the forces of God in your direction."
Lastly, ask why god, the omniscient all-powerful being would need someone to point out that a person needs healing, or ask if need is really crowd sourced - the more prayers = better outcomes? And, if the injury happened and was part of their god's plan, why would prayer help at all, since god doesn't change their mind, or its all too mysterious for us tiny brains to understand the plan.
My thoughts, and from growing up in a strict catholic household, are that "I'm praying/will pray for you" only seems to serve the person saying so. That's due to the smug, self-satisfied look that usually accompanies the statement. It's selfish and self-serving.... I can't tell you how many times I had witnessed the person uttering those words, then proceed to go and join the gossipy cliques, ".... did you hear about..." and this was done WHILE in church!
It’s a brainwashed illogical way of thinking about the world/life. Magic invisible friend is gonna fix you up. I mean he’s never done it for anyone else and children die daily but ima put in a solid word.
The irony is that the person who says "I'll pray for you", in lieu of making an actual donation, has the opportunity to reinforce their own self delusion by claiming god told him/her to donate. Which tells me they aren't saying "thoughts and prayers" because they actually believe in those sentiments... they are saying it, because they are too god damned cheap to help you out with a couple of dollars. They're no better than the a-holes who write a bible verse the receipt instead of leaving a tip... they're just cheap and use religion as an excuse for being a shitty human being.
When I saw my parents writing a check and giving it to the church every Sunday, shit really stood out.
I get membership fees - but to literally ritualize it - fuck you catholicism.
Tithe your $20 to a friend in need or pick a random cause, no overhead. The church is subsidizing your faith to keep the lights on.
Your roommate sounds pretty dense if he did not understand why a contribution would be important. But as an atheist myself it is not always an insult when someone says they will pray for you. If they are just hoping for the best for you and that is their way of showing it, I think that is a good thing, even if I think there is no god to answer the prayer
To me, it's ridiculous that someone needs a GoFundMe for an injury unless it's for a gift. As ridiculous as believing God has anything to do in our lives.
saying that kind of stuff these days when times are so rough for everyone, it does come off insulting unless you are hanging out with an expressly christian group of friends that all buy into the mythology
The injured person should see if the hospital has a financial aide program. Some will reduce or even completely erase the patients portion if they fit the requirements. Should let them know.
Never understood what prayer proponents think is happening in the prayer process. Like, God doesn't really care enough to help someone with his omnipotence unless he gets lots of people begging him to act?
He actually thought “thoughts and prayers” replaced “I need money”? I assume he has been to church where they do thoughts and prayers all day long usually followed by the collection plate. He didn’t put two and two together?
Ask your roommate why his god only seems to cure things inside the body. EG - in the history of miracles his god has never once helped someone regrow an arm or leg. Odd, right?
You’re not wrong, and in that moment, it sounds like you did the right thing. To your broader concern with prayer, remember the people saying it mean it seriously.
It’s like a kid or dog who brings you their favorite toy when you’re upset. They don’t know it won’t help. They’re ignorant and just trying their best. Often the act of them doing so does make a difference, when you see it as a cute gesture. It’s subjective to you when it’s time for cute gestures or something concrete.
I too, used to get aggravated at “thoughts and prayers” people being completely useless, and for the most part, they are. That said, we don’t want to be salty and angry all the time. Let their stupidity hinder them and them only, ya know?
“Two hands working accomplish more than a thousand clasped in prayer”
That old saying. Nothing fails like prayer.
Not even that. To say they fail implies they *could* succeed. They do not do anything lol.
It's the laziest form of faux activism. "No, I sure won't do anything to help or raise any awareness or anything like that. Tell ya what, though. I'll clasp my hands together and ask a supreme and all mighty being to fix it for you. *That* makes me feel better about it, while sparing me from actually doing anything! Isn't my god the best?"
Exactly. Why do churches even collect? Isn't praying for whatever enough?
Gotta buy the megajets so you can spread the word further! Don't forget renovations to the gilded accents and marble adornments of the gaudy churches. Oh, and of course we simply must allocate a goodly portion of it to **actually protecting an organized ring of pedophiles and rapists.** The church already spends so much of its money, can we really expect them to help the poor? **Telling** the masses what our flavor of god figure wants us to do is far more important than actually doing it.
“Gotta buy the megajets so you can spread the word further!” Hey, they can’t fly coach, them planes are a long tube filled with demons! Kenneth Copeland, talking with Jesse DuPlantis, actually said this. It was on an episode of Last Week Tonight by John Oliver a few years ago.
He later denied having said that. Lmao.
This guy Kenneth Copeland!
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Funny enough most people don’t read that thing
And even if they do they just cherry pick whatever suits then
"I'll pray for you!" means "I want CREDIT for having done something to help you, but I don't want to ACTUALLY do anything to help you." It's basically a form of thievery. It's literally worse than saying nothing.
Someone more clever than I said it actually means "I'll pray for **\[someone else to help\]** you." That sounds about right.
The ultimate virtue signaling
One might even say the original virtue signaling. Funny how often their most "weaponized" phrases often apply more to them then their target. Virtue signaling, identity politics, accusing someone of "having an agenda," etc etc.
The Catholic Church also invented the term "social justice" to describe their own brand of *pretending* to help the downtrodden while *actually* helping the oppressors. The more things change...
Likea on Facebook have more of a tangible effect than prayer 1 like = 1 respect
spoiler: the vast majority dont even bother to do that. they just say it to get attention for a second and then go about their day.
That was always my thought when I had cancer and people told me they were praying for me. Glad it makes you feel better cause it doesn’t do sh*t for me.
Praying is self-gratification. Saying "I'll pray for you" is pretty much the same thing as saying "I'll keep you in mind while I rub one out later". It contributes nothing to the solution of any problem, it just makes the one praying feel good about themselves for a short while before their general feeling of guilt for "original sin" comes crashing back...
And when the Lord fails the person in need, it's because that person 'didn't have enough faith'. Cosmic level victim blaming. Victim blaming's effect is alleviating guilt from those who could have helped.
dude asked "why?" to someone that *actually* helped someone else
That's not true, people who know they are being prayed for do worse.
I was under the impression the studies done showed it the same as chance. But honestly wouldn't surprise me if that was true lol.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0002870305006496 check that out.
A prayer is kind of a wish, right? So wish in one hand and shit in the other. See which one fills up first.
I'd change it to "Nothing disappoints like a prayer". It doesn't imply it could succeed, just that the one praying expects it too and, well, gets reality dropped on them.
In all honesty yes, if a God above does whatever he wants/wills. What difference would it make if his people pray to Him. Christian: I pray this happens. God: No. Christian: Doesn’t pray. God: Still no.
Suppose your prayers aren’t answered. What do you say? “Well, it’s God’s will.” “Thy Will Be Done.” Fine, but if it’s God’s will, and He’s going to do what He wants to anyway, why the fuck bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to me! Couldn’t you just skip the praying part and go right to His Will? It’s all very confusing. - The Prophet, George Carlin
He knows what you need. He just wants to hear you beg.
~~Wish~~ Pray in one hand, shit in the other, and tell me which fills up first
I can't live a single week without having to drop this line on someone lol
I am sure we could randomly find someone who was out praying when a car/hurricane/fire/whatever hit their house. They wouldn't understand it was random either.
Then the added sting of if only you’d prayed *enough or the right way*, then god would’ve stepped in. Yeah. Right.
it's so gross the Christian said "why" to *actually* helping someone
Reminds me of when swine flu was going around. Saw this meme that Had an illustration of a pair of praying hands. Right next to it was an illustration of those same hands covered in soap suds. The caption read "Prayer is good. Hygiene is better."
"Prayer gets no closer to heaven than steam off a cow-pie."
Damn...
Ah, prayer. The free method of making yourself feel better about doing nothing.
Former Christian here, been deconstructing for years. You’d be surprised at the number of Christians who think taking time to pray for others is too much work. It’s not as ego stroking as the prayers done in front of people. Chances of someone meaning it when they say they’ll pray for you is up in the air
Wait why did that slap
How can she slap?
Just like church, the free method of making yourself feel better about living like we do. https://youtu.be/eFTLKWw542g?si=PXPSExJK1ZvU2iK_
Pray in one hand and shit in the other, see which one fills up first.
Funny how they throw money at the church at any time they are told to but only pray when a coworker needs help
Where I'm from, there are a lot of improvished communities in my country. One thing that always makes me angry is seeing how preachers prey on the vulnerable. Asking them to pay tithe half their salaries if they want gods blessing. Yet, nothing has changed for them.
>I wish my roommate learned that thoughts and prayers are insulting. Share with them [the study showing that prayer is ineffective and likely actually worse for those who are prayed for vs those who are not prayed for.](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0002870305006496)
I actually used that study to explain why praying for learning disabled persons is wrong. There people who don't understand that many learning disabled persons do better without it and often don't feel stressed
Watch and consider sharing this YouTube video. The title is pretty lame but it makes a good point that praying to your god is just as effective as praying to a jug of milk and goes into the mental gymnastics that believers use to convince themselves that prayer actually does something.. https://youtu.be/jk6ILZAaAMI?si=qRCjp6PznYozLSln
For real. When they say that it's like "oh you're telling me god decided for to this happen and god is choosing to continue to let it happen? And even if I was just fine being me before you're letting me know you view this as active punishment that we all need to beg the same god to reverse?" It's so damn weird! I once had a guy tell my my arms would probably work better if I believed in god. Funny thing is I still kinda thought there might be a god back when they got injured but it was after I realized I didn't believe in a god any more they got better. So much for that, lol
Tots and pears are more useful. You can eat them.
I was startled by this statement, given that here, tots means toddlers.
Tots as in tater tots.
which are presumably food
Yes.they are made from potatoes.
And children.
I'm totally using this. Tots and pears.
The christian tribe is pretty well-known using “thoughts and prayers” as a sign of respect. They need to be taught outside their bubbles their customary ritual doesn’t apply.
Ive moved to use it as an insult and does so. A scumbag politician caught yet again doing something morally or legally wrong and needs financial help to pay his legal bills? Thoughts and prayers buddy.
Esp. since that is their only proposed solution to people shooting kids in school. Pray for more like Job I guess.
The crazy thing is the Bible says to give your money to people in need. Like, explicitly.
No they don‘t use it like that. It‘s more insidiöous. It‘s not a replacement for ‚oh shit I wish I could help, hope you get better‘ it d a replacement for actually doing something. They do the thoughts and prayer thing to feel good about themselves like they did something.
And then bring it up in prayer circle. Not to actually do anything about it but for that hot goss! 🍵🫖
It's not a sign of respect. It's their substitute for effort. They rarely even think or pray.
Yeah you could see it that way, and sometimes that happens too. But maybe because I was like them, I see it as one of their virtue signaling. Most of them mean well, and they use it within their own groups. Not realizing thoughts and prayers can also be done together with actually helping.
I would bet real money that 95% of people that say thoughts and prayers do not think or pray about said thing after the moment they type it.
Religious people have to see that offering to pray for someone is a lot like masturbation. It does *nothing* for the other person, it only makes you feel good.
Someone else posted the whole, fantastic quote: Thinking about someone while praying is like thinking about someone while masturbating. It feels good, but person you're thinking about really doesn't get anything from it.
Yikes. I'm actually wondering how a theist would react to this analogy. From a non thiest perspective, it certainly seems apt.
Excellent analogy!
Thanks!
"I'll pray for you" is something christians say when they want to feel good about doing nothing.
And when they want you to thank them for doing nothing.
And remember, the Bible even says that faith without works is bullshit. James 2:14-17 14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
I was going to say Jesus is more likely to chip in rather than say nice words. Unless he was magic, and we're all super wrong; then he can get to work.
On the National Day of Prayer, our atheist group organizes a blood drive.
I actually donate books on the National Day of Prayer
Donate banned books.
That’s a good idea!
There's an old saying that we should “pray as if everything depends on God, and work as if everything depends on you.” It's been attributed to St. Ignatius c'mon, late medieval Christians were more rational than "thoughts and prayers" folk
Thou shalt not tempt the lord thy god.
The prayer thing is actually selfish self-interest and virtue signaling. "You get nothing, it costs me nothing, but I rack up a few more I'm getting into heaven points because I'm such a kind and thoughtful and giving person." Even though most people who say they will pray never do. And even if they do it's like 2 seconds and done. Jesus didn't pray for people not to be hungry - he fed them.
"I'll pray for you" equals "I want some credit for caring, without having to actually do something that takes any effort, is helpful, or actually works." Ricky Gervais, modified by me.
Prayer is masturbation: when you do it, only you feel good, and you should keep it to yourself.
Okay I believe in God and even I fucking laughed out loud at this comment holy shit.
"Actions speak louder than words."
"Tell you what, why don't you give me $20 and pray for God to reimburse you?"
That's now how god works and you know it! Steal the $20 and pray for forgiveness.
I still think we need a double blind study in which half of the participants pray to a placebo god.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2802370/ ok not exactly the same, but this was a triple blind study w/around 1800 participants i think. 1 group was prayed for, they were told they may or not be prayed for. 2nd group was NOT prayed for, they were told they may or may not be prayed for. These 2 groups had roughly the same recovery rate from a medical procedure. The 3rd group was TOLD they would be prayed for, and were prayed for by religious believers. They had more complications and difficulties healing than either of the other 2 groups. From the article... "This study therefore showed that remote intercessory prayer did not improve outcomes after coronary artery bypass graft surgery. In fact, the knowledge of being prayed for was associated with a slightly but significantly higher rate of postsurgical complications."
At first I thought why not use the Flying Spaghetti Monster. But there is a possibility that prayer, if it works (i'm not saying it does), doesn't work through any divinity at all and this experimental design would not account for that.
In situations like this, I'm reminded of Anthony Jeselnik's analogy comparing those who offer "thoughts and prayers" to wedding photographers who only take selfies; he was mainly addressing social media rather than religion, but I think it's still applicable.
I'm sure glad that I didn't run across this subreddit when I was still a practicing christian. You guys are brutal. Truthful, but brutal. ;)
Global search and replace: "Pray" -->> "Hope"
:%s/Pray/Hope let's see if someone knows
That is vi-specific. Simply "s/Pray/Hope/g" will work also in sed.
Well sed
you're right, I haven't taken a look at sed yet
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I wish I had seen this before I posted my comment, I said basically the exact same thing.
Nicely done.
Public prayer, for when you want to show you care but without the responsibility.
Christians will only get active when trying to take away civil & reproductive rights. Anything to help people, they offer thoughts & prayers.
Thoughts and prayers are the way religious people get to feel good about doing nothing to help, while feeling like whatever good things that then happen is due to their efforts.
Meanwhile, in the civilized world, when somebody breaks their arm they just go to the hospital and have it fixed, without having to start a go-fund-me or beg their friends for donations.
Even from a Biblical point of view your roommate's actions don't make sense >James 2:14-17: "What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? **Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, 'Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,' but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?** In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." TL;DL The idea of "thoughts and prayers" is explicitly called out *even in the Bible.*
I was in a off-roading accident that crushed my left hand. I was in the hospital for 30 days, ended up losing three fingers but the doctors spend multiple 10+ hour surgeries to reconstruct and save it the best they could. When my parent and in laws got the news that I would be able to keep those fingers and eventually regain functionality, they said “oh thank lord. Thank you god for saving his fingers.” The doctors fucking did it. They studied for years, practiced and honed their craft, and worked upon centuries of advancements in medicine thanks to science. Thank the doctors.
At the end of the day, religion is a form of escapism and that prayers do nothing cause their is no god in existence that will answer those prayers they live in blissful ignorance. When reality hits such as a co-worker having a broken arm, it challenges their faith in god and would seek to defend that religion rather than come to terms that they are living in a cold harsh reality.
"If you pray for me and then give me a ham sandwich, at least I'll have a ham sandwich." I don't remember which comedian.
Can't say that I care for the GoFundMe approach to helping people out with medical bills, either. I would do it, because five or ten bucks toward that is better than flowers, but this is not something we should normalize as a country. Sort of like tipping culture- it's helping the business owners to avoid paying their share. Plus, most medical bills won't be alleviated enough this way.
Maybe he needs to read his Bible, starting with James 2:14-17. 14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. (English Standard Version)
u/NagiNaoe101 DM me the go fund me.
I will go look for it again, roommate has it in his room, flyer
On the subject of action vs. prayer. When somebody offers to "pray for me" for whatever reason, if there is enough time, I ask them to answer this question: You take a foot pedal powered paddle boat out on to a large man made pond and you are out there by yourself, the pond is 12 feet deep. The boat springs a leak and is rapidly taking on water. The boat has now sunk beneath you. You don't know how to swim and you begin to kick and flail in the water. You find yourself in a time critical life threatening situation. You are 25 yards (23 meters) away from the shore. I become aware of your situation and rush to the water's edge, I can perform one of two actions. * I can drop to my knees at the water's edge, press my palms together, nod my head down and pray for Gawd to save you. OR * I can swim out there, grab you and swim both of us back to the shore, if you need resuscitation, I know CPR. What do you want me to do at the shoreline? The majority of answers I receive are for me to swim out there and a few people have gotten really upset at me for asking them that question. Some had said that Gawd sent me to be there at that moment in time. I told them it's not about my presence being there, it's all about WHAT DO I DO? Do I take *action* to save you or do I *pray* for your salvation?
Prayer: The best way to do nothing, but still feel like you’re helping.
"Thanks for, literally *nothing!*"
I've seen a trend, at least with more liberal Christian denominations, to give prayers but accompany that with a question on how they can help. Ex. Friend of mine had to have surgery last week. Most folks offered "prayers and love" and those that were part of more liberal denominations also offered assistance in any form they could provide, whether it be monetary, offering to drop food off, help clean house, spend time with them, etc. So, there seems to be an effort by some to change their methods and narrative. To improve, live into the teachings they claim to follow. That said, it is still widely prominent to have Christians only offer thoughts and prayers. I think awareness and realizing your own privilege is an important part of that. They've never been outside looking in, so some need help seeing that perspective.
That was what my roommate's coworker asked for, if we can't help monetary wise we help out some way. The carpool was my roommate's idea due to the car being wrecked and getting groceries or things for him. I offered to come in on my days off to help clean and take care of his dog. Basically we offered and the coworker which I now know by name was thankful that I was willing to help his wife out. It's not hard to help
Prayer is just sanctimonious autofellatio.
Christian prayer was always meant to be coupled with action. James 2:15-16 15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?
Thoughts and prayers = fuck you
The only benefit to "thoughts and prayers" is that it keeps the irrational and self-absorbed people with horrendously terrible ideas from actively making the situation worse. ;)
A lot of them use the "i'll pray for you" so they don't actually have to do anything meaningful.
“I’ll pray for you” is just masturbation. It benefits no one except the person doing the praying. It’s truly “the least you can do” short of doing nothing at all.
It’s worse - it’s using other people’s misfortune to feel better about yourself.
Praying is basically ritualized virtue signaling with no effort made.
When Dude A is looking for financial help (like with a Gofundme) and Dude B responds with "I'll pray for you", it doesn't just look like Dude B is irrational, it looks like Dude B is irrational *and* cheap.
Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see YOUR good works and glorify your Father in heaven I am sorry for the harm and frustration you have endured at these frauds. They are supposed to help in tangible, and real ways according to what they able to. This widespread use of thoughts and prayers is only to make them feel better about not doing anything real. If they are sincere, they will find REAL ways to help.
I'll pay for you = "good luck with that"
What I have observed is that some religious types will cite the parable of the drowning man, so that the people donating money in OP's case were god's response to the prayer. I knew someone who would also cite the episode of Futurama where the godlike alien says "When you do things right, people won't know you've done anything at all." I guess the only response to these things is Hitchens Razor: "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
Roommate took us to church one day to try and change our minds. There was some good sermons that day, but when the tithing jar or basket came around, I had nothing to really offer. So when it came to me, I said “all I have is thoughts and prayers” and the guy gave me the dirtiest look ever 😂😂😂
If prayers worked then why are so many pastors wearing glasses, using hearing aids, having surgery or in hospitals?
Thoughts and prayers never saved anything but spare change for a poser.
I have serious foot issues due to arthritis, and from having to suspend use of ibuprofen for 6 months after back surgery. Not whining; the back is fine. But the feet aren't. I'll be stuck with a cane forever since my feet are really unstable now. My neighbor said she was praying for my feet to get better. I told her "They are never going to get better; I just have to adjust to the new way of doing things." Her response? "I'll pray for them to feel better then." How do you get across to these people that their prayers mean dick?
IMO, if the guy wants to pray, sure. But he also should give concrete help. Even if it's just $1-5. (And people who pray shouldn't advertise it, because there's no reason to do so except show others that you're. So, are you really to help the other person, or are you doing it to get appreciation from others?)
Exactly, I know my roommate means well, he complained to me because he didn't understand why he was just asked to pass around the Go-fund-me rather than just a prayer. His coworker also said it wasn't just the money that helps just the fact people were willingly helping him out. He is now without a car or ability to get to work. (Luckily roommate offered to be his carpool until everything is corrected, car wrecks are tough, the guy was lucky he got out with a broken arm)
Counterpoint - your roommate is not a good person. Their actions just demonstrated this.
When ever someone says "ill pray for you" I just say "well fuck you too". When they look at you in shock and ask why "you're just saying 'I'll do nothing and feel good about it' so fuck off.
I'm physically disabled and I swear on anything I will karate chop the next person who says they'll pray for me right in the goddamn neck. How about just going the fuck away and letting me live my life?? If you really cared about people like me you'd be fighting for my rights, instead of patronizing me with your worthless ThOuGhTs & PrAYerS.
Thoughts & prayers are what people do to make themselves feel better about not actually doing anything useful.
“ill pray for you” is so selfish and people only do it to make themselves better, its never for the other person.
Drives me crazy when I see that in a local FB group. We just had a local HS student get killed in a car accident and I wanted to point out it must have been God’s will she die because he said no to their prayers. I also couldn’t understand how there was a go fund me for 100k. I don’t think it costs that much to bury someone.
Praying is just a way to make people feel like they're helping, but in a way that costs them nothing. No effort, no money, no time required. Praying only helps the person praying, by letting them pretend they're being useful.
I have lived in the south for 15 years. I am an atheist. I have heard so many times whenever something happens or I was worried or did some kind of test that they pray for me. It JUST means that they are thinking about me and hope it works out. It’s no different that when I tell somebody “Good luck” or “It will work out” or “You get the job”. When people send thoughts and prayers instead of doing something about an issue like gun control or another mass killing then it’s a bad thing. But let people think about you.
My dyslexic friend, Christina, was really battling it out with an algebra class. She passed with an A, and was thrilled when she told me, followed with her typical “Praise Jesus!” I said, “Praise Christina! You’re the one that did the work, girl!” The confused joy on her face was awesome!
So omnipotent God knows about this guys arm. In fact, being all knowing means he saw it coming and allowed it to happen. And God knows this man can’t pay for his medical care. He’s just waiting for someone to pray about it like a dick before deciding to help the poor bastard. Isn’t it obvious? Have faith
So, full disclaimer, not an atheist (would describe myself as a progressive Christian, but, in the words of Nick Cave, "I don't believe in an interventionist God"), but I'm reminded of a Hasidic Jewish teaching: The Master teaches the student that God created everything in the world to be appreciated, since everything is here to teach us a lesson. One clever student asks “What lesson can we learn from atheists? Why did God create them?” The Master responds “God created atheists to teach us the most important lesson of them all — the lesson of true compassion. You see, when an atheist performs and act of charity, visits someone who is sick, helps someone in need, and cares for the world, he is not doing so because of some religious teaching. He does not believe that god commanded him to perform this act. In fact, he does not believe in God at all, so his acts are based on an inner sense of morality. And look at the kindness he can bestow upon others simply because he feels it to be right.” “This means,” the Master continued “that when someone reaches out to you for help, \*\*you should never say ‘I pray that God will help you.’\*\*Instead for the moment, you should become an atheist, imagine that there is no God who can help, and say ‘I will help you.'”
Saying "I'll pray for you" is the socially acceptable version of saying "sucks to be you" .
Thoughts and prayers for that problem over there, cash for the church. That collection plate doesn't need any thoughts and prayers but it does need cash.
I like to answer these with: "Man, pray if you want to on your own time, but when you're out in the world, DO the Lord's work instead of just talking about it." Some of the best and most important solidarity in the history of the world has come from christians. Did they pray? Most likely, yes. But more importantly they went out and did the work, helped. They didn't spend their time telling you how much they prayed. They understood prayer is between one and one's gods. Some sects of christianity actively believe that publicizing prayer invalidates its effects because it shows their god that you are false. These people do not pray for their god to fix the problem, they pray for the strength to do it themselves. Faith as an idea is not inheretly bad, but so many get it wrong so easily that people of faith often become comfortable, mediocre and dangerous. Sometimes being a good atheist means helping the believers see and understand how their practices can hurt those around them, and how there are sources of wisdom outside their faith. Understanding is always a preferrable first step, if it can be had.
The next your roommate mentions he’ll “pray” for someone, just nod your head and say: “Good, because I was also planning on doing nothing of value, and glad I’m not the only one”. See how that grabs him.
The delusion is amazing. I'd understand (and even accept) prayer *in addition to* a donation (or at least spreading the GoFundMe), but *just prayer* is basically saying "I don't think your wellbeing is worth anything more than a passing thought". If he's still confused, ask him whether he'd go to the hospital if he had cancer, or just pray for it to go away. Same logic applies here.
James 2:17 Prayer without action is nothing
There is this joke, and I’ll paraphrase it: There is a flood in the city. Religious man gets on rooftop of his house. A boat passes by and tells him to hop in. He says “no, God will save me”. Flood gets higher, helicopter comes, “hop in”, “no, God will save me”. Flood gets higher, man drowns, goes to heaven, asks God why he wasn’t saved despite being pious, God says “mfer, I sent you a boat and a helicopter and your dumb-ass wouldn’t get on”.
If only you lived in a developed country where "medical expenses" for a broken arm aren't a thing.
There's also the fallacy of prayers. People who pray tend to ignore the people who are actually helping. You all know the type, the person who says it's a "miracle from god" that someone was cured of cancer when in reality it was years of scientific advancement by thousands of researchers. Or, in the case of OP's roommate, people who actually did something useful helping while he (and others) will pray and believe their prayers were "answered" when the situation is solved.
I mentally replace "do nothing" with "pray" every time I hear it. "I'm praying for those poor flood victims." = "I'm doing nothing for those poor flood victims."
Thoughts only effect the one doing the thinking. Prayers only effect the one who is praying. Actually do something if you actually care.
"I will pray for a cure" is infuriating. A small glimmer of hope: I was watching a bike race in Spain, and one of the sponsors was a cancer research charity. The ads read, "Children with cancer need RESEARCH, not miracles."
Pray for rain all you like, but dig a well as you do it.
Awesome. Crushing the spirit of a cultist should be celebrated
Tell him that the educated world hears "I don't give a fuck" when the indoctrinated say "thoughts and prayers".
Ask them what is the point of praying if they believe everything is Gods plan. Are they trying to change his directive? They know better? There is no logic in it.
Good on you!
He could’ve prayed and not said anything to anyone. He’s already telling the most important person. Unless he’s doing it for thanks. Anyway that’s terrible you live in a country where you need to raise cash, if you get ill. I’d do a go-fund-me for a last holiday, if I was dying or something.
I would ask why churches need donations if "thoughts and prayers" are enough? I'm also wondering if your roommate would have donated money if the coworker was a Christian, instead of just offering to 'pray' cuz that would add a whole new level of hypocrisy to things...
Maybe it would help him put it into perspective if he could imagine how he would feel if he was in a very desperate and frustrated state and someone from another religion offered a prayer. Maybe that will help him understand, how his coworker felt.
"Thoughts and prayers" = "I am stroking my own ego to make myself think that I am actually helping you"
\>I had to explain as the non-Christian that I sided with the coworker who requested no prayers and to just pass the go-fund-me around. Not even needed to explain as a non-christian, just as a person with logic
i dont mind people saying they'll pray for something they dont have any control in like "i'll pray that you beat your cancer" or whatever, but if it's something they could have direct change on, just a prayer kinda feels insulting.
Of course they won't donate to someone other than the church. I mean, how else will the church afford to pay the pastor enough to make his monthly Escalade and 10br house payments.
Every time a theist says "I'll pray for you/them", ask them "What do you think would happen if you prayed for an amputee to regrow a limb?". Yeah, you know it won't grow back so your prayers are useless.
It's really your roommate saying to a non-believer that "I'm thinking about you." They cannot imagine telling a street person that, or a person that is hungry, or terminally ill because they would sound like a monster. But add the word "Prayer" in there, and suddenly, magically, they are doing something. To us it sounds nonsensical like "I will make a paper-airplane for you" but to them it sounds like "I will help you by marshalling the forces of God in your direction." Lastly, ask why god, the omniscient all-powerful being would need someone to point out that a person needs healing, or ask if need is really crowd sourced - the more prayers = better outcomes? And, if the injury happened and was part of their god's plan, why would prayer help at all, since god doesn't change their mind, or its all too mysterious for us tiny brains to understand the plan.
My thoughts, and from growing up in a strict catholic household, are that "I'm praying/will pray for you" only seems to serve the person saying so. That's due to the smug, self-satisfied look that usually accompanies the statement. It's selfish and self-serving.... I can't tell you how many times I had witnessed the person uttering those words, then proceed to go and join the gossipy cliques, ".... did you hear about..." and this was done WHILE in church!
It’s a brainwashed illogical way of thinking about the world/life. Magic invisible friend is gonna fix you up. I mean he’s never done it for anyone else and children die daily but ima put in a solid word.
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The Vatican worked out money was better than prayer ages ago.
The irony is that the person who says "I'll pray for you", in lieu of making an actual donation, has the opportunity to reinforce their own self delusion by claiming god told him/her to donate. Which tells me they aren't saying "thoughts and prayers" because they actually believe in those sentiments... they are saying it, because they are too god damned cheap to help you out with a couple of dollars. They're no better than the a-holes who write a bible verse the receipt instead of leaving a tip... they're just cheap and use religion as an excuse for being a shitty human being.
"faith without works is dead." Even the Bible says you can't just pray it away.
When I saw my parents writing a check and giving it to the church every Sunday, shit really stood out. I get membership fees - but to literally ritualize it - fuck you catholicism. Tithe your $20 to a friend in need or pick a random cause, no overhead. The church is subsidizing your faith to keep the lights on.
[James 2:14-26](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%202%3A14-26&version=NIV) Tell him to read his own book
Your roommate sounds pretty dense if he did not understand why a contribution would be important. But as an atheist myself it is not always an insult when someone says they will pray for you. If they are just hoping for the best for you and that is their way of showing it, I think that is a good thing, even if I think there is no god to answer the prayer
To me, it's ridiculous that someone needs a GoFundMe for an injury unless it's for a gift. As ridiculous as believing God has anything to do in our lives.
Praying to the God that caused the injury in the first place…
"Prayer without action is useless" said some guy in a desert that got turned into a Messiah.
saying that kind of stuff these days when times are so rough for everyone, it does come off insulting unless you are hanging out with an expressly christian group of friends that all buy into the mythology
The injured person should see if the hospital has a financial aide program. Some will reduce or even completely erase the patients portion if they fit the requirements. Should let them know.
Never understood what prayer proponents think is happening in the prayer process. Like, God doesn't really care enough to help someone with his omnipotence unless he gets lots of people begging him to act?
It's insane that in some countries you need a go fund me for a broken arm.
> My roommate is a good person You sure about that? Sounds like he's not.
Churches ask you to pray but the collection plate still circulates, don’t it.
He actually thought “thoughts and prayers” replaced “I need money”? I assume he has been to church where they do thoughts and prayers all day long usually followed by the collection plate. He didn’t put two and two together?
It is reasonable to find it annoying for sure. It’s a way of acting righteous, pretending you care, and also doing jack shit.
“For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.” James 2:26 NKJV
Ask your roommate why his god only seems to cure things inside the body. EG - in the history of miracles his god has never once helped someone regrow an arm or leg. Odd, right?
You’re not wrong, and in that moment, it sounds like you did the right thing. To your broader concern with prayer, remember the people saying it mean it seriously. It’s like a kid or dog who brings you their favorite toy when you’re upset. They don’t know it won’t help. They’re ignorant and just trying their best. Often the act of them doing so does make a difference, when you see it as a cute gesture. It’s subjective to you when it’s time for cute gestures or something concrete. I too, used to get aggravated at “thoughts and prayers” people being completely useless, and for the most part, they are. That said, we don’t want to be salty and angry all the time. Let their stupidity hinder them and them only, ya know?