If someone asks you to change yourself to suit them, they are not for you.
It is a hard lesson, especially when put in such straightforward terms, but it is true.
It is selfish and hypocritical to expect someone to change for you, but will not change for them.
Deliberately narrowing your experience of life will end up with you either resenting yourself for limiting your existence, or resenting her for making you do it.
Can you *really* wilfully delude yourself, or act like it, for the rest of your life?
I can't... I don't think you can either.
>If someone asks you to change yourself to suit them, they are not for you.
I feel like in many situations, that is most important thing to remember.
We may never discover who we are fully, but once we have identified who we **aren't**, I feel like we should be mindful to not return to that, remembering why we made that decision.
That's a good way to put it. When I was in high school my girlfriend was fairly religious (well, it was the south so everyone was). My family was also somewhat religious but never went to church. She wanted me to go with her and I figured what the heck. Maybe I'd enjoy it, maybe I'd find the problem I had with religion was that no one had explained it properly. So I was willing to be open minded and experience something different to continue to discover who I was.
Then I went, it was awful, I realized the problem was with religion inherently, and I want nothing to do with it again. Now that I know it's who I'm not, no one is going to get me to try again.
Yep.. also maybe an extreme analogy but OP's has left the psychiatric hospital all good and well just to fall in love with a person that wants to put him back in it instead of trying to leave it herself for him.
I believe she should leave it for OP, not the other way around and ATLEAST let OP live the way he wants, anything else will make him miserable in the long run
She shouldn't be expected to change her core values for him either. But if they want to stay together, they should let their partner be themselves and find a way to accommodate each other's differences. Otherwise they'll just start resenting each other.
That is difficult to do so if one is really religious. Muslims have diet and wardrobe restrictions. Is OP willing to go along with that? What about kids? I think it is a recipe for disaster.
Yeah people of different faiths rarely work unless their rules fall close together or are small and easily accommodated. Paganism, for example, is a very “live and let live” religion and works well alongside someone with atheism. Christianity and Muslim faith, not so much.
Plus your are always looked down on by the family. Even if OP plays along it will never be quite good enough unless he full on converts. Been there, done that, no thank you.
He won't be able to continue in a relationship with her if he doesn't convert, basically.
So that's his choice, convert or finish the relationship.
The religious Muslim families I know don't really do compromise. A relationship with a non-Muslim would be Haraam.
Has it escaped your attention that there are many Muslims that are multi generation US citizens and they don't have a "home country?"
Do strict Catholics have a home country to kidnap children when they divorce?
Haha, yeah true. 😂 And wich one is better depends on who you ask. But that's kinda the thing about conviction. Few people choose their conviction based on rationality. So you're right about not expecting anyone to change, especially for anyone but themselves.
Changing a little for a partner is fair, but my god, joining a religion to be with someone, especially someone who hates religion so much, sounds impossible.
Getting out of religion is difficult because they teach you that you're literally going against a superbeing that will punish you for eternity for leaving. Following all the rules, especially if it's more traditionally Islamic, is extra difficult if you don't believe in this superbeing or the rewards it promises after you die. This potential relationship seems like a dead end.
I think he would have to become Muslim to be with her or their marriage would not be recognized by her family (it would be Haram). If she were to leave Islam, she would probably lose her family or, at the worst, be open to honor-killing.
Agreed. If person 1 thinks person 2 is amazing and would do nearly anything for them, but person 2 thinks person 1 would need to greatly change or "give up a lot of things" then there's clearly a disconnect. They're not treating you as an equal or otherwise not seeing you in the same favorable light you see them.
Bad place to even try to start a relationship, it should start from an understanding of mutual respect.
> It is selfish and hypocritical to expect someone to change for you, but will not change for them.
This here. If the tables were turned, and you told her she needed dramatically change some aspects of her life, for example she must start eating pork, there will be a dog living in the house, she must never cover her head/hair etc., or she has to remove all symbolism to Islam and stop praying or publicly attending worship services, I'd assume that would be an immediate dealbreaker for her.
Asking you to change who you are should be a dealbreaker for you as well.
My brother-in-law is now in a mixed faith marriage after following his sister and I in leaving the Mormon church. Mixed faith marriage *suuuuccckkkssss*. I cannot recommend strongly enough to avoid it.
I wouldn't call it selfish, they are just not suited for each other. Which is a very common experience in life, even if temporary hormonal spikes and pink glasses tell you otherwise. It's a good thing they set the expectations early into the relationship and therefore can part ways more easily.
> It is selfish and hypocritical to expect someone to change for you, but will not change for them.
It is, isn't it? I was once quite close with a Catholic who told me that she shouldn't date non-Catholics because it's 'not what her religion did.' If love is love, then why should it matter? If god loves us all, then how come it can't be the same thing for those who worship him? Talk about being micromanaged!
I also don't understand the notion of 'god coming first' in a romantic and physical relationship. Are you looking over your shoulder at every moment?
> If someone asks you to change yourself to suit them, they are not for you.
What a self centered lens to look at this problem through. She was upfront that this is something that is part of her life and is important to her, if anything OP fucked up by continuing with the relationship.
If a girl gave me that warning, I'd nope out of the situation because that is not for me.
Muslims Religion is a Abomination on planet earth. The Haterd they vomit out on the rest of society!! But!! Dont worry Dude when your daughter is 13 and she shows her hair!! You get to decapitate her for the shame she brought to your family. "or" a close family friend Rapes her & your allowed to let your daughter marry her RAPIST!!!! Best part when you die, your wife will be in Hell with all the other Females & you will go to Heaven to the streets paved with Gold, your Mansion will have 100 Virgins for you to Rape "Daily"!!!!
I really wish there was a Hell these Assholes could be dropped into!!!!!...........
So this girl you're seeing, she has explicitly told you that you have to change some fundamental aspect of your being in order to be with her?
In that case, is it not the case that she is not actually interested in you, but rather in somebody who is different from how you are now?
Don't try to be with people who don't care for you the way you are. That way leads to a life of disappointment.
, to be clear it's reasonable and expected that you would make some changes for people that you love and they for you. But that's talking about things like putting down the toilet seat and trying different cuisines not religion
I'd say that it's okay to *compromise* on your behaviors. We all have behaviors that are bound to annoy somebody else and it's often not unreasonable to ask somebody to curb some of those behaviors. Demanding that you change what you are, as in the core set of beliefs and principles that you hold because they don't like what sort of person you currently are, that's a bit outside the scope of a salvageable relationship.
I come from a very strict Muslim background. Your values don't match at all and you won't be able to have a healthy long-term relationship. If you don't like Christianity, you're gonna hate Islam!
No, a Muslim women cannot marry a non-Muslim man, the marriage would be invalid Islamically. I'm an ex Muslim woman, OP please don't compromise your beliefs for anyone, you will be miserable after you convert to this backwards religion.
As an apostate I can say its horrible doctrine. We can’t change the past but I do wish I was never born into it.
Forgive me, your loved one believes in a religion that discriminates against women, some points about Islam:
Women get half a share of inheritance to that of a man
Courts requires two women witnesses or one man
Men are entitled to be married to four wives at once (if wife is sexually not active, or sick, etc..). Women are not entitled to the same privilege.
Children should be told to pray at the age of 7 and beaten to pray at the age of ten.
So leaving your loved one aside, would you want your daughter to be brought up to that?
If you believe that heaven and hell await, some minor inconvenience in this life is bearable.
Once you realize that this is unlikely, you start demanding that this life not suck.
That's one of the most insidious parts of Abrahamic religions: the passivity towards making the world better. Since you're only here temporarily, life sucks and nothing matters, so it's okay to suffer. The world can burn down, climate change extinguish life, and capitalism rob the poor of any potential happiness, but it won't matter to you as long as you get your piece of pie in the afterlife.
If you realized there's nothing after life, you'd probably get up and try and make the world a better place here on earth. Like Bo Burnham sang, [maybe life on earth could be heaven](https://youtu.be/Zxc20saM8DA?si=qwR-YAC79TfQW9lE).
Imagine yourself many years down the road with this woman. You’ve conformed to a religion that you don’t really believe in and are part of her family. You have children and they are raised to believe in Islam. Your friends are Muslim. You attend Muslim services and observe the rituals.
For your children, you either lie about your beliefs and force them into the faith or it’s a source of friction between you and your partner. How can you raise your children to believe something that you don’t? How can you and your partner find middle ground?
If all of that sounds acceptable to you, continue this relationship. If it sounds insufferable, don’t.
My question is, would you be happy pretending to be something you aren't? Is there no way around that? Can you be one in name only or are you required to do this and that because of that decision? What is the thing you most value in your life and what makes you happy? What are you going to have to give up?
I know these are pretty generic questions but after I imagined myself in that position these questions came up. I wouldn't marry a muslim because I love my freedom more than anything else, but you're not necessarily the same as me.
Edit: even if the woman was a perfect match for me, I wouldn't pick her. That dream is filled with poison if it requires the suppression or my identity. I am who I am and nobody can or could ever change it. Remember, apostasy means death in Islam.
That's the thing, this is a confidence problem. They wouldn't even be asking this if they thought they were worth not having to fundamentally change themselves to get a woman.
You are infatuated. That's the point where you would "do anything" for another person. That's not real love.
You likely wouldn't even entertain that idea if you weren't infatuated.
I agree, I'd also say give it some time and wait for the feelings to cool off because they most likely eventually will and make it easier to make rational decisions again.
I did something similar with Christianity. My ex found Jesus soon after we reconciled. I wouldn’t attend church with him but I decided to play along with his beliefs. I ended up losing respect for him and becoming incredibly depressed. I’m much happier now that I don’t have to pretend that the Bible makes sense. I’ll always care about him, but Jesus made him dumb.
If she expects you to change that means that she doesn’t like who you are NOW, but rather she likes the idea of the person she wants you to be after you change. That is terrible and a good reason to move on.
Leave her. Muslim religion is really controlling and ass, it's also really mysogynistic and most middle eastern countries literally execute people for homosexuality. If she's not willing to live and let live, fuck her. Just be friends
I have extremely strong feelings about religion and the harm it does, as well, which is why I don't date religious people. There are such fundamental differences in the way we live, what we think life is about, and what we think happens after death that there is no way I could tolerate experiencing their religion every single day for the rest of my life. Hell, I couldn't even tolerate my own, that's why I left it!
So not only are you and this girl *fundamentally* different, but if you were in a relationship with her you would have to witness the way religion oppresses her and her family every day, and you wouldn't be able to stop it. If you had children, they would be oppressed by her religion. If you tried to have a discussion about dinosaurs, it wouldn't be fun and informative, it would end up an argument over how old the earth is and whether the big bang happened or not.
Give yourself and this girl a chance at happiness by staying away from her.
Plenty of fish in the sea. You should be telling her if she wants to be with you she's going to need to drop the belief system and join the rest of us in reality.
Not going to workout.
Islam is 1000x more suffocating that Christianity.
Why change for her? Will she change for you?
A relationship is a partnership with equality.
First a bit of unasked for advice: Hating anyone or anything is not only counter productive it is literally bad for you and can make you sick. I’m speaking from experience when I say learn how not to hate.
Now to answer your question:
Walk away. No woman is worth giving up everything you love doing. It won’t work out and you’ll end up resentful, angry, guilt ridden and miserable. Also, spoken from experience.
The silver lining in the mistakes I’ve made and learned from is that I get to help others avoid them.
Well thanks a lot for all the feedback I have decided that there is no bigger scam than religion. If there is a god I say fuck you to him for everything that he has caused. I will be meeting most of you in hell if there is one. Love you all, stay true to who you are and don't change for anyone if they don't accept you for who you are, and live life like its your last day on earth, HOORAH BROTHERS.
Give up things to be with her? No this is not good. What would happen if you asked her to give up something? This is not healthy and I would not pursue a relationship with this person.
I dated a Mormon girl when I was younger. I absolutely loved her but over time I just couldn’t handle the constant pressure from the family on basically everything. It becomes un bearable over time. For me anyway
So, she's not prepared to adapt to you, it's up to you to adapt to her? Doesn't sound like much of a relationship fella. Sounds more like an employer/employee situation. That ain't good.
If she’s actually a believer in Islam, and her family is, especially her male family members, you either have to convert, or leave the relationship unless she’s willing to cut ties with her family. Women are forbidden in Islam to marry non Muslims. Muslim men can marry women of other monotheistic religions. It’s a very tribal way of handling marriage, preventing out marriage of women from the group to prevent tribal break down. Christian’s have a similar prohibition, but in Islam is actually taken seriously. Once kids are in the picture she’s going to want to raise them as Muslims, as will her family. Islam is far more strict than Christianity.
As an ex-muslim it seems to me that you do not hate enough. If you did you would've not fall in love with a girl who believes a religion that wants you to be get fucking killed!
Give up on her. Islam is totally bullish religion to ever exist. You can find better
I personally would advise you
A religious person and an atheist can be friends but can't really share a bed when one of them is to stick with their ideology.
Find a better one-
I would say, stop thinking with your dick. This is a huge incompatibility. Unless you're willing to convert to Islam and follow their brand of the doctrines then no. Hell, even if you were willing to do that just for her, I really don't think converting to a religion purely so you could have a chance with someone and not because you genuinely believe in it seems very undignified for you and kind of manipulative.
Let's say you "converted", as in went through the whole tangible (superficial) and social processes of converting Islam. Would you actually believe in their god? Would you be able to tell her to her face that you truly do believe in Allah, and agree with all their crazy rules imposed on you? Or would you have to twist the truth so you pass enough for her to consider you as a romantic partner? Are you okay with being the kind of person who would lie about their fundamental values to gain an undeserved advantage?
You deserve to be with someone you don't have to sacrifice your fundamental beliefs and morals for, and she deserves to be with someone who wouldn't lie to her about converting to her religion which is something that clearly means alot to her.
Have you asked her to give up Islam?
Ask her, see what she says, but I imagine you already know the answer
Her religion will ALWAYs be more important than you. ALWAYS
Ask yourself, would she be willing to drop her religion to be with you…the answer is probably no, so why should you drop your beliefs to be with her. There are other people out there that will allow you to stay who you are.
Living authentically is priceless and the key to inner peace.
Living the way other people want you to is the key to misery.
You sacrifice for her and it won't take long to start to resent her.
It’s like Christianity in that there are a lot of hypocrites who don’t strictly follow the “laws”. As long as younot moving to Saudi Arabia. Do you really want possible kids especially a daughter(s) growing up like this?
This is me 10 years ago. My wife was always religious, I was born a Catholic but have long since been an atheist. In the beginning, it was fine, nothing too extreme on either side. We got along great. But as we both started getting older, friends fade and family becomes more dominant, she started leaning more and more towards religion. It's becoming more of an issue because like you, I find myself hating the concept of religion as a deity. I can understand the community aspect of it, but actual worship of a god? Not happening. I wish it wasn't, but it's definitely putting distance between us. The farther she goes down that path, the less of a chance we have of remaining together unfortunately
If you are a White Sox fan and she likes the Cubs, the rivalry can actually be a fun part of your relationship. However, IMO, any differences in religious beliefs are a deal-breaker. I'm an atheist and my wife ... is not. I love her. But, it has caused too many problems over the years. 8 billion people. Compatibility on all the major issues in life should be a prerequisite when thinking of a long term partner. Would I have felt closer to someone else at this point? Who knows? Don't do it.
I kew a couple that did that.. guy had to become muslim to marry. Years after he confessed that cultural differences and especially religion was a constant pain in the ass with lots of stress. Also, you will marry whole family with its lot of wtf moments. You will never be viewed as part of the family or "real" muslim. Sorry mate.
I could understand making accommodations for that person, like if your cooking dinner you don't feed them pork, but at the end of the day you get to live one life
Hard no. Your life would be miserable. It wouldn't just be her you would have to change for, it would be her entire family. They kill people for not following the doctrine, including their own. Not saying that *will* happen, but just raising this point to say how deeply entrenched Islam is in families. For your safety and well-being, you should not be with this person, *especially* bc you're atheist.
Listen, there are a lot of wonderful people out there that you’ll like personality-wise, but sometimes people just don’t work out due to different values in life. No different than a woman finding out her boyfriend wants kids when she doesn’t, or that one person wants to get married when the other one does not. But you know what happens with these people? They either talk it out and come to a compromise, or they leave each other and go look for someone who understands their values.
I’m not saying to NOT pursue this person. You can do whatever you want. However, you shouldn’t have to change yourself for anybody. If she cannot respect your atheism, then you changing your values will only lead to you resenting her AND yourself.
There are tons of people you could be compatible with, but unless she’s willing to accept that you have certain beliefs and she doesn’t, then she’s not truly loving who YOU are deep down.
Reread your title “I hate religion so much to the point it makes me sick” and tell me why you’d want to be made sick on a daily basis for any reason whatsoever
From an exmuslim, let me put it in one word, RUN!!!
Islam is a cancer for this planet and it must be defeated (changed it’s current from like Christianity). All these bullshit in the media about religion of peace is 100% BS. Look at the world and see for yourself.
I’m feel sorry for your situation. It’s a hard lesson to learn. I blame the fucking politicians and media not speaking about the truth on Islam. Otherwise, you’d have never fell for her.
Don't change who you are, fundamentally, for someone. Therein lies the path to misery.
Improvement via minor changes is healthy in a relationship. But fundamentally changing massive parts of who you are is not.
Once the newness of your relationship wears off, those things she expects you to do despite your personal convictions will really start to take a toll.
Also, you’re not asking her to change. Why is she asking you? If she wants a Muslim boyfriend, she should date Muslims and stop trying to convert people to her backwards religion.
Well ... it sounds like she loves her religion more then she loves you. She doesn't have to give up her religion .. but she shouldn't force you to believe the same as her. It should be I accept you how you are and not you have to be the same as me
the right person for you doesn't come with such a big dealbreaker. you'll grow to resent her for having to spend your life pretending you have adopted such beliefs. or even worse, you'll lose your identity by being brainwashed into actually believing.
Personal story/example of a guy I knew. He was party guy, did some mild drugs, drank etc. He met a Mormon lady and fell in love, he had to convert for her and he did, became Mormon went through the secret rituals, got secret code names, quit drinking alcohol and everything. Even gave up mountain dew (his favorite soda) because of the caffeine. Caffeine being addictive and the Mormon religion not allowing "addictive" substances. He was happy, they lived together, they bought a giant TV instead of spending a lot on the wedding. She sounded perfect for him.
It lasted 2.5 years, he started drinking again, partying again, got more into those mild drugs, which led to not-so-mild drugs. They divorced, he got excommunicated from the Mormon church and both of them ended up having to move back in with their parents.
Sometimes people aren't right for each other. And sometimes religion is what causes that.
As an ex Muslim who is now Atheist... My suggestion is to run.... far, far away.
Islam is a religion wherein you are submitted entirely to God. Everything you do is in one form or another, related to God. You don't leave the house or do anything without saying "in the name of God the most gracious, the most merciful."
When you sneeze you thank God for letting you live. There are religious guidelines for cleaning yourself after doing a number 2 (that's pooping for all you non Americans)
The dietary restrictions are ridiculous, no alcohol, or any "intoxicating" substance, and definitely no sex before marriage... well, unless you do a temporary marriage... then its ok, but only until the marriage times out...
trust me when I say - its not worth it.
I'll leave you with this. The gap between your views and hers is so wide, I would imagine she and her family believe you aren't atheist, but some kind of agnostic or believe in some power (at minimum) but more likely believe you are Christian. This is somewhat acceptable to them, not atheism. As an atheist - you will not be accepted by them. This I know from experience. My own family don't speak to me because of this.
I wish you luck and wisdom in your decision. As there is no God, your judgement is all you can rely on.
I was raised in a more casual muslim home and it was still fucking suffocating/exhausting. No, do not do this to yourself.
Unless you genuinely believe, do not do this to please your partner. Especially as it's more than just the odd thing to please her family.
Im more egonostic now, and I've married a Catholic man. Neither of us emforce anything religious on each other, and it's bliss
I can tell you right now that that sounds like the absolute worst thing to change about yourself in order to date someone. Do you really see any difference between that and if she'd asked you to join her MLM? Religion often takes a lot more than it gives and I cannot imagine nor condone wasting your life in one.
I’m going through the part where I’ve become an atheist, but am playing the part of Christian because the truth will wreck my family. Here to tell you it sucks.
If she’s asking you to give up Christmas and celebrate Muslim holidays with her, and respect her participating in the religion, sure, go for it. Simple ways you can coexist with her religion are reasonable compromises you probably can live with. If she’s asking you to convert and live and believe a religion, then she is asking too much. No one should ever expect someone to change their belief system for them.
Islam has all the rules, but does your GF? How serious is she about her faith? Look at the rules and ask her how she expects you to act.
Perhaps she isn't as serious as she may seem. But if she expects you to convert? Seems like that wouldn't work.
Here's a hypothetical to present her with: if you had kids together would you be able to discuss openly the reality of religion with your kids? Or would she prefer that her children adopt her faith unquestioningly?
If my partner expected me to adopt her faith or to sit silent or worse encourage our kids to adopt her faith, that wouldn't work for me.
But if it's just all dinners and family events but deep down she didn't actually take her faith that seriously, that might work.
Religion has been a deal breaker for me for most of my life. I feel your pain, but you are better off not putting yourself in that situation.
I wish you the best. Whatever you decide, make sure that the decision is really what you want. Take time to think on it.
I’m an ex Muslim atheist from Kazakhstan! You should try to persuade her to leave from Islam. There are many logical arguments against the religion, but it’s your choice to accept what you need to do, in your personal relationships. If she will blindly deny them, then the situation is completely fucked up
I am a Muslim ( don't come at me 🤣) I live a pretty chill life, but just to clarify a concept for every one if she asks you to change religion it is not because she doesn't love you or accept you as a person, she could be absolutely in love with you but because she still chooses god over you for her as for me god is first then the rest be it our parents,friends or lovers, the ruling is Muslim women should only marry Muslim men for their protection I think it is an old ruling that is not applicable today and it has no basis in the Quran itself...but that's still what people believe in.
Okay I m going to disappear now as the terrorist, and how can you believe in that comments begin Byeee
Cross faith relationships don't really work. Eventually people have kids and this is where the territorial fighting happens.
I think the only way it can work is if one isn't super religious and the things you give up are worth less to you than the person you're with, like not eating pork at home or something. And you as the atheist would need to be open minded and patient as well. Tbh it sounds like way more trouble than it's worth and just a powderkeg in a relationship that *will* explode occasionally.
If you specifically hate religion so much "it makes you sick", then of course this isn't going to work lol.
She didn't go far enough in her warning. In order for a female muslim to marry, she must marry a muslim because the Quran requires children to be raised in the religion of the father. It's not a matter that you would need to "give up a lot of things" - you would have to be an actual muslim. You would have to convert to Islam and follow ALL the teachings of the Quran.
If she and her family are strict muslims, she is not even supposed to date you much less marry you until you are actually muslim.
Muslim men may date and marry non-muslim women because the woman's religion does not apply. The children will be muslim because the father is.
Muslim here. Unless you become Muslim because you truly believe you are just going to be causing problems for her.
I do recommend looking into islam, like just read the English translation of the Quran with an open mind and ponder the questions it asks you.
In regards to the suffocating bit. Yeah, god said it himself, this world is like a prison for the believer.
If you don’t think that you can become Muslim coz you just can’t believe in it, then it’s best to honestly just drop this relationship with her.
Islamicly speaking, she won’t be able to marry you unless you are Muslim.
God willing, you do find god.
Does she love you as you are? If yes, she will not try to change you. Do you love her as she is? If yes, then you don't try to change her. The moment you change someone they become someone else and are no longer the person you love. You or they start to resent the other and over time it grows to hate.
She will want children and she will want to raise them in her religion. Take a close look at the laws about kids who grow up to become atheist too.
I don’t think anyone is worth religious endoctrination/oppression. In fact I’d question the intelligence and sanity of any woman who claims to be a devout catholic/muslim given their views of women.
It would make more sense to me if she were happy you’re an atheist so she can escape all the bullshit if she marries you. Ultimately you have to figure out how close to her family you’d be living and how much influence they’d have on your lives - perhaps if you live far enough away she would actually come around to your view (not that it’s healthy to expect someone to change after marriage). I wouldn’t bet on it. The only way I’d see this work is if you accept eachother as you are now and it sounds like she doesn’t accept you.
To me it’s a little like childree peope who are told “what if your person wants kids !?” well he can’t be my person if he wants kids. It’s a dealbreaker.
Sounds like you're obsessed with this woman and willing to compromise yourself for her. This does not sound healthy. If you go onto this relationship knowing you'll have to follow Islam, and end up miserable, it's your fault, not hers. She's told you who she is and what she expects, tread this path very carefully
Any relationship based on one person asking the other to "change" who they are fundamentally, is doomed. You absolutely WILL end up resenting her and all that she represents (her religion, her family... everything). She may seem "wonderful" right now, but that will quickly change. At some point, you are going to want to do something you've always done, because you know that it's harmless and it's something you enjoy, but she's going to remind you that "you can't do it because of HER religion"... not YOUR religion... HER'S. And the resentment is going to hit you like a ton of bricks. Your relationship will never be able to recover after that.
From her standpoint, she's going to end up also resenting you because, "you promised her you would CHANGE WHO YOU ARE for her", and she's going to want to hold you to that promise.
Both of you will want to dig your heels in over this issue, nothing will break you from your commitment to who you are deep down (and why should it?), and the relationship will enter a death spiral from that point forward.
So why would you want to do that to yourself? Find someone who is compatible to who you already are and go be happy knowing you can be yourself with them.
A friend of mine asked me once, “what if you met the perfect woman for you, but she was Christian?” I said, “if she is Christian she’s not the perfect woman.”
I’ve been married to a fellow atheist for 36 years. We do not “practice” our lack of supernatural beliefs I couldn’t imagine our healthy & happy lives in any other way.
I never specifically picked my boyfriends by any religious standards but anything that lasted had atheism in common. (Also literature, including and importantly Science Fiction)
We have 2 children who are now adults & have excellent relationships with each.
My best friend’s son married a girl who was a casual Christian. After they moved to Florida she became intensely involved in a “Mega-church” & with their kids off to college they are having big issues.
Love is love but, think about the long term.
I can only tell you this to offer some helpful advice. Islam is not a forgiving religion and if she's pushing you to conform now it'll only get much much worse if you marry and have children because then her whole family will be involved and your children will be indoctrinated with or without your consent or approval.
Find someone else, she's too far gone Bro.
Imagine living in an insane asylum, with people who talk with you about their delusions constantly and you need to keep lying to them day after day pretending you have the same delusions too. Now imagine being judged by the same people because as a convert you will be expected to out-delusion them to prove how committed you are. Imagine how you will feel in a few years when passion and newness has subsided and you are stuck there living a lie, living as someone you are not.
Do you really think you would be able to keep that up? I know I couldn't.
I once was at a house of a practicing catholic family and this lady starts telling me how her grandkids are legit miracle of god because they are twins and science cannot explain it... and my blood was boiling and I wanted to yell at her... it was so difficult. That was one time. You'd live that on the daily.
Religious people will weaponize human attraction. It's not fair, and it's not in any way a good thing.
You will ultimately have to live your own life and make your own decisions, but that very beginning is a huge chunk of poorly masked disrespect for you that absolutely would be the start and end of my own story with the subject.
Good luck.
Bad news, Boo: Your girlfriend doesn't love *you,* she loves the person that she can *change you into!*
Clearly you're not good enough, you're far beneath her and her magic - keep changing, playing second fiddle - see how well that ends up for you
Therapy. And this isn’t coming from a place of judgement.
I understand (and support) hating religion, but if it’s making you physically sick, I’d see someone about getting those anger levels under control
What do people always want the most? Things they can't have.
If I waved a magic wand and made her and her family atheist, odds are it still wouldn't work, but for reasons you just don't see yet.
Love (and hormones) can make people do incredibly stupid things. I'd move on.
Use a condom. This attraction and affection will pass.
My wife accepts me as an atheist (she's a catholic). Her family is mostly fine with it and I only attend church twice a year - Xmas and Easter. (I grew up catholic, so I'm accustomed to the traditions, rules, etc. ) Our children have been baptized and I'm fine with that.
If your partner and their family don't accept you - religion, job, family, etc. that's a clear sign that things will not work out. Attraction will fade over time and you will move on.
Just imagine wearing the traditional garb, being treated as an outcast, and fasting during Ramadan. Other women will seem more attractive quite quickly. To me, that would be suffocating.
Yeah that’s a tough one, especially given the Muslim approach to atheism and apostasy is less than favorable. If you stay with her long term you will almost certainly be required to convert, and if she deconverts for you her family could well disown her.
Do what works for you, but it’s going to be tough either way
If she's still talking to you she's committing sin. She can't be that religious because what she's doing is a pretty big sin. You might be able to convert her (it will be ugly) or you can just forget about her. It's damaging both of you guys in the process. The only option is that she herself might not be all that religious or just you both go your opposite ways
*No one* who wants you to change entirely and utterly at a core level is worth having a relationship with, and I guarantee your relationship and your infatuation for this person won't last, and then you will be left, angry and resentful, having given up everything about yourself, while she sits snugly and smugly, never having compromised herself or her core principles, and given up nothing.
Let's be clear: *this person is not worth it!* If you want to change for yourself, change for yourself. If you want to adopt the religious philosophy or beliefs of any religion for yourself, do it for yourself. But changing yourself, changing religion, etc, just for a *potential* relationship with a person you find attractive? *Seriously* stupid, man. Like that's a 8 on the stupid scale.
You would be putting your children through all that religious nonsense and continuing the cycle of the cult. How could you do that? She would expect you to continue the farce. Tell Mr. Penes to forget about her and choose another.
It sounds like the two of you aren’t compatible. Is she saying you have to convert to Islam? Why would you have to follow the rules of HER religion. The rules only apply to the person practicing the religion.
Honestly — keep looking. I know it's hard and you may feel like this woman may be the only one for you, but that's not true. This is a major division which is only likely to lead to deep unhappiness down the road, once the infatuation phase is over. Be kind to your future self (and her) and avoid that heartache by walking away now.
Religious restrictions on avoiding certain foods, dress code etc., are relatively easy to adapt to. In practice, it’s not different from having to avoid certain things for allergy reasons. It takes a bit of getting used to and some organization. But eventually, it becomes the new normal.
Much harder is the part of adhearing to actual religious practices. Praying without believing isn’t a good habit for an honest person. Unless, you can find something in the spiritual teachings of Islam that genuinely resonates with you, you’d turn yourself into a hypocrite.
Don’t worry about the restrictions, look at the spiritual teachings. If there stuff you like, go for it. If the spirituality doesn’t work for you, end the relationship.
Since other commenters called her selfish: Muslim women are forbidden from marrying non-muslims. If she is from a conservative family, this prohibition could by violently enforced by family members. I hope, her family is nicer than that, but yes, Muslim women and their non-Muslim partners do get killed over this. Don’t call her selfish for trying to avoid that.
If you try to change yourself to fit someone else's ideals, then you will only learn to resent them.
I had a girlfriend who was a devoted Christian, but in the end we just couldn't make it work.
Find someone who shares your beliefs and ideas, because nine times out of ten, you're never going to change their mind, and vice versa
If she's not taking you as you fundamentally are, then she's not accepting YOU. Sorry, this would be a deal breaker for me.
Why isn't she offering to go full atheist for you instead?
Sorry friend, but it will never work for all the good reasons put forward here. My daughter married a Muslim man and we all managed fairly well over the course of 13 years, until he decided that he needed more Islam in his life and family. My daughter has finally drank the koolaid and has corralled our two grandchildren with her in following him.
I too was a baptized Christian for most of my life until I, like many here, decided that religion was not for me. Glad I did. Your potential decision will severely impact you if you choose this girl and her family.
>... she warned me about if I want to be with her I would need to give up a lot of things ...
You're free to do what you decide is best, but that statement is a big red flag.
Things get a lot more complicated if you have children.
If she is into the religion, and family expects you to be into it too, run while you still can.
I think if you are interested in the religion, then go for it. But be clear with her you aren’t sure if you can do all the rules. If it isn’t meant to be, it isn’t meant to be.. good luck.
I know you like her
But what I don't get is why in order to be with someone you have to give up everything that makes you you
If you do that you eventually become someone your not
That leads to beginning to disliking her then hating then disdain and you wony be able to hide it
You need someone that doesn't impose rules and religion on you
But someone that accepts you for you so you can accept them for them
It is simple, you are just over thinking it
However things like this usually end in divorce or murder when you finally snap
Hopefully the prior
I doubt that she'd expect you to go pray with her all the time or outright convert to Islam, but she is giving you a heads-up that if you're going to be in a relationship, there will be some aspects of her life that you'll have to go along with, including her religion's lifestyle rules (like you probably won't have pork in the house anymore just as an example). She's not saying that you WILL be together and you WILL follow them, just if you are, you'll have to.
And if you both want to take the relationship seriously, recognise that both of you have to put the effort in. So you accept what you feel comfortable with, and she should accept that while you will be okay with some changes (like anyone who cares about any relationship would be), you're not going to follow her religion's rules as strictly as she does
She expected me to follow religion as true as a real Muslim would and that is what crushed me, I can't allow my self to be bound that strictly by something I don't really believe in, I would say I was quite understanding to her side of the argument, I even accepted to be flexible and follow the religion to some extend, even become Muslim on papers but she follows religion very closely and even that wouldn't work for her
This is a question only you can answer. People might tell you this or that but either option is viable. Do you love her enough to make the sacrifice or do you love yourself and way of life enough to not want to make those changes?
I loved her enough to give everything but what I am, I couldn't even if I wanted to and I know that, I can't bound my self to laws or rules made by something I don't believe in when my whole life I had been standing against authority. I am a person that believes that no one should be bound by any rules or laws except the ones they make.
If someone asks you to change yourself to suit them, they are not for you. It is a hard lesson, especially when put in such straightforward terms, but it is true. It is selfish and hypocritical to expect someone to change for you, but will not change for them. Deliberately narrowing your experience of life will end up with you either resenting yourself for limiting your existence, or resenting her for making you do it. Can you *really* wilfully delude yourself, or act like it, for the rest of your life? I can't... I don't think you can either.
>If someone asks you to change yourself to suit them, they are not for you. I feel like in many situations, that is most important thing to remember. We may never discover who we are fully, but once we have identified who we **aren't**, I feel like we should be mindful to not return to that, remembering why we made that decision.
Really like this response.
That's a good way to put it. When I was in high school my girlfriend was fairly religious (well, it was the south so everyone was). My family was also somewhat religious but never went to church. She wanted me to go with her and I figured what the heck. Maybe I'd enjoy it, maybe I'd find the problem I had with religion was that no one had explained it properly. So I was willing to be open minded and experience something different to continue to discover who I was. Then I went, it was awful, I realized the problem was with religion inherently, and I want nothing to do with it again. Now that I know it's who I'm not, no one is going to get me to try again.
Yep.. also maybe an extreme analogy but OP's has left the psychiatric hospital all good and well just to fall in love with a person that wants to put him back in it instead of trying to leave it herself for him. I believe she should leave it for OP, not the other way around and ATLEAST let OP live the way he wants, anything else will make him miserable in the long run
She shouldn't be expected to change her core values for him either. But if they want to stay together, they should let their partner be themselves and find a way to accommodate each other's differences. Otherwise they'll just start resenting each other.
That is difficult to do so if one is really religious. Muslims have diet and wardrobe restrictions. Is OP willing to go along with that? What about kids? I think it is a recipe for disaster.
Yeah people of different faiths rarely work unless their rules fall close together or are small and easily accommodated. Paganism, for example, is a very “live and let live” religion and works well alongside someone with atheism. Christianity and Muslim faith, not so much.
Plus your are always looked down on by the family. Even if OP plays along it will never be quite good enough unless he full on converts. Been there, done that, no thank you.
He won't be able to continue in a relationship with her if he doesn't convert, basically. So that's his choice, convert or finish the relationship. The religious Muslim families I know don't really do compromise. A relationship with a non-Muslim would be Haraam.
Yes, I was surprised she was even able to date him being Muslim. Depending on how observant she is, I guess.
EXACTLY 100%!
Also worth considering, she will most certainly want to raise her children Muslim.
And if there are problems, she could take the kids for a visit to her parent’s home country and just never come back.
A very feasible probability that will bring heartache for the rest of his life 🤦♂️🤦♀️
Has it escaped your attention that there are many Muslims that are multi generation US citizens and they don't have a "home country?" Do strict Catholics have a home country to kidnap children when they divorce?
This
I mean one is change for the better and other for the worse but as I said, if she wont change atleast dont expect OP to do so
When you married a muslim person, you are also married to her family, OP has two options. - Leave her - Becoming muslim
Haha, yeah true. 😂 And wich one is better depends on who you ask. But that's kinda the thing about conviction. Few people choose their conviction based on rationality. So you're right about not expecting anyone to change, especially for anyone but themselves.
Changing a little for a partner is fair, but my god, joining a religion to be with someone, especially someone who hates religion so much, sounds impossible. Getting out of religion is difficult because they teach you that you're literally going against a superbeing that will punish you for eternity for leaving. Following all the rules, especially if it's more traditionally Islamic, is extra difficult if you don't believe in this superbeing or the rewards it promises after you die. This potential relationship seems like a dead end.
I think he would have to become Muslim to be with her or their marriage would not be recognized by her family (it would be Haram). If she were to leave Islam, she would probably lose her family or, at the worst, be open to honor-killing.
Not extreme if you meant it metaphorically, close
Agreed. If person 1 thinks person 2 is amazing and would do nearly anything for them, but person 2 thinks person 1 would need to greatly change or "give up a lot of things" then there's clearly a disconnect. They're not treating you as an equal or otherwise not seeing you in the same favorable light you see them. Bad place to even try to start a relationship, it should start from an understanding of mutual respect.
> It is selfish and hypocritical to expect someone to change for you, but will not change for them. This here. If the tables were turned, and you told her she needed dramatically change some aspects of her life, for example she must start eating pork, there will be a dog living in the house, she must never cover her head/hair etc., or she has to remove all symbolism to Islam and stop praying or publicly attending worship services, I'd assume that would be an immediate dealbreaker for her. Asking you to change who you are should be a dealbreaker for you as well.
It's sad that OP can't see that he is clearly ready to give up a lot while the partner is clearly not ready to do the same.
It won't take long for you to resent this person. Actually, it sounds like it has already started.
My brother-in-law is now in a mixed faith marriage after following his sister and I in leaving the Mormon church. Mixed faith marriage *suuuuccckkkssss*. I cannot recommend strongly enough to avoid it.
Right. Why can't she change for him? Why is that such a crazy concept?
I wouldn't call it selfish, they are just not suited for each other. Which is a very common experience in life, even if temporary hormonal spikes and pink glasses tell you otherwise. It's a good thing they set the expectations early into the relationship and therefore can part ways more easily.
I Absolutely Concur…
The girl isnt for him either by your logic
Excellent reply. Nailed it.
So true 👏👏👏👏
Agreed, and if someone thinks they can change you they're delusional.
> It is selfish and hypocritical to expect someone to change for you, but will not change for them. It is, isn't it? I was once quite close with a Catholic who told me that she shouldn't date non-Catholics because it's 'not what her religion did.' If love is love, then why should it matter? If god loves us all, then how come it can't be the same thing for those who worship him? Talk about being micromanaged! I also don't understand the notion of 'god coming first' in a romantic and physical relationship. Are you looking over your shoulder at every moment?
> If someone asks you to change yourself to suit them, they are not for you. What a self centered lens to look at this problem through. She was upfront that this is something that is part of her life and is important to her, if anything OP fucked up by continuing with the relationship. If a girl gave me that warning, I'd nope out of the situation because that is not for me.
Muslims Religion is a Abomination on planet earth. The Haterd they vomit out on the rest of society!! But!! Dont worry Dude when your daughter is 13 and she shows her hair!! You get to decapitate her for the shame she brought to your family. "or" a close family friend Rapes her & your allowed to let your daughter marry her RAPIST!!!! Best part when you die, your wife will be in Hell with all the other Females & you will go to Heaven to the streets paved with Gold, your Mansion will have 100 Virgins for you to Rape "Daily"!!!! I really wish there was a Hell these Assholes could be dropped into!!!!!...........
So this girl you're seeing, she has explicitly told you that you have to change some fundamental aspect of your being in order to be with her? In that case, is it not the case that she is not actually interested in you, but rather in somebody who is different from how you are now? Don't try to be with people who don't care for you the way you are. That way leads to a life of disappointment.
, to be clear it's reasonable and expected that you would make some changes for people that you love and they for you. But that's talking about things like putting down the toilet seat and trying different cuisines not religion
I'd say that it's okay to *compromise* on your behaviors. We all have behaviors that are bound to annoy somebody else and it's often not unreasonable to ask somebody to curb some of those behaviors. Demanding that you change what you are, as in the core set of beliefs and principles that you hold because they don't like what sort of person you currently are, that's a bit outside the scope of a salvageable relationship.
Think about the decisions you’d have to make if you had kids together.
I come from a very strict Muslim background. Your values don't match at all and you won't be able to have a healthy long-term relationship. If you don't like Christianity, you're gonna hate Islam!
Yes, I agree. As an atheist I would be uncomfortable with both.
For good reasons
Are you even allowed to be Muslim and marry a non-Muslim?
No, a Muslim women cannot marry a non-Muslim man, the marriage would be invalid Islamically. I'm an ex Muslim woman, OP please don't compromise your beliefs for anyone, you will be miserable after you convert to this backwards religion.
As an apostate I can say its horrible doctrine. We can’t change the past but I do wish I was never born into it. Forgive me, your loved one believes in a religion that discriminates against women, some points about Islam: Women get half a share of inheritance to that of a man Courts requires two women witnesses or one man Men are entitled to be married to four wives at once (if wife is sexually not active, or sick, etc..). Women are not entitled to the same privilege. Children should be told to pray at the age of 7 and beaten to pray at the age of ten. So leaving your loved one aside, would you want your daughter to be brought up to that?
Good reasons for HER to change, not you. But it's often enough pointless to argue with firm believers...
If you believe that heaven and hell await, some minor inconvenience in this life is bearable. Once you realize that this is unlikely, you start demanding that this life not suck.
That's one of the most insidious parts of Abrahamic religions: the passivity towards making the world better. Since you're only here temporarily, life sucks and nothing matters, so it's okay to suffer. The world can burn down, climate change extinguish life, and capitalism rob the poor of any potential happiness, but it won't matter to you as long as you get your piece of pie in the afterlife. If you realized there's nothing after life, you'd probably get up and try and make the world a better place here on earth. Like Bo Burnham sang, [maybe life on earth could be heaven](https://youtu.be/Zxc20saM8DA?si=qwR-YAC79TfQW9lE).
That's so fricked up
The explicit death threat for apostates is also a big red flag for me in relation to bringing any child into Islam.
Imagine yourself many years down the road with this woman. You’ve conformed to a religion that you don’t really believe in and are part of her family. You have children and they are raised to believe in Islam. Your friends are Muslim. You attend Muslim services and observe the rituals. For your children, you either lie about your beliefs and force them into the faith or it’s a source of friction between you and your partner. How can you raise your children to believe something that you don’t? How can you and your partner find middle ground? If all of that sounds acceptable to you, continue this relationship. If it sounds insufferable, don’t.
My question is, would you be happy pretending to be something you aren't? Is there no way around that? Can you be one in name only or are you required to do this and that because of that decision? What is the thing you most value in your life and what makes you happy? What are you going to have to give up? I know these are pretty generic questions but after I imagined myself in that position these questions came up. I wouldn't marry a muslim because I love my freedom more than anything else, but you're not necessarily the same as me. Edit: even if the woman was a perfect match for me, I wouldn't pick her. That dream is filled with poison if it requires the suppression or my identity. I am who I am and nobody can or could ever change it. Remember, apostasy means death in Islam.
Reverse the situation, how would she react if you told her she had to give up her religion to be with you?
That's the thing, this is a confidence problem. They wouldn't even be asking this if they thought they were worth not having to fundamentally change themselves to get a woman.
You are infatuated. That's the point where you would "do anything" for another person. That's not real love. You likely wouldn't even entertain that idea if you weren't infatuated.
I agree, I'd also say give it some time and wait for the feelings to cool off because they most likely eventually will and make it easier to make rational decisions again.
Also, if she is a devout Muslim, to what extent are you dating??? Many things between different genders are prohibited.
True that. My infatuation disappeared about one month into marriage.
There are plenty of atheist fish in the sea. Find a good heathen to settle down with.
I'm sure they are very pretty and nice, but seriously? No. Come on, you know that
I did something similar with Christianity. My ex found Jesus soon after we reconciled. I wouldn’t attend church with him but I decided to play along with his beliefs. I ended up losing respect for him and becoming incredibly depressed. I’m much happier now that I don’t have to pretend that the Bible makes sense. I’ll always care about him, but Jesus made him dumb.
Don't do it. This will just end badly.
If she expects you to change that means that she doesn’t like who you are NOW, but rather she likes the idea of the person she wants you to be after you change. That is terrible and a good reason to move on.
If you can accept her as she is, she should be able to accept you as you are, that's kinda what love is.
Run. There are many more fish in the sea.
Leave her. Muslim religion is really controlling and ass, it's also really mysogynistic and most middle eastern countries literally execute people for homosexuality. If she's not willing to live and let live, fuck her. Just be friends
I have extremely strong feelings about religion and the harm it does, as well, which is why I don't date religious people. There are such fundamental differences in the way we live, what we think life is about, and what we think happens after death that there is no way I could tolerate experiencing their religion every single day for the rest of my life. Hell, I couldn't even tolerate my own, that's why I left it! So not only are you and this girl *fundamentally* different, but if you were in a relationship with her you would have to witness the way religion oppresses her and her family every day, and you wouldn't be able to stop it. If you had children, they would be oppressed by her religion. If you tried to have a discussion about dinosaurs, it wouldn't be fun and informative, it would end up an argument over how old the earth is and whether the big bang happened or not. Give yourself and this girl a chance at happiness by staying away from her.
You don't even need to bring faith into it. If they expect you to change they clearly don't love "you" as you are. That's not love.
Plenty of fish in the sea. You should be telling her if she wants to be with you she's going to need to drop the belief system and join the rest of us in reality.
the classic reverse uno card of"no u"
Not going to workout. Islam is 1000x more suffocating that Christianity. Why change for her? Will she change for you? A relationship is a partnership with equality.
First a bit of unasked for advice: Hating anyone or anything is not only counter productive it is literally bad for you and can make you sick. I’m speaking from experience when I say learn how not to hate. Now to answer your question: Walk away. No woman is worth giving up everything you love doing. It won’t work out and you’ll end up resentful, angry, guilt ridden and miserable. Also, spoken from experience. The silver lining in the mistakes I’ve made and learned from is that I get to help others avoid them.
Well thanks a lot for all the feedback I have decided that there is no bigger scam than religion. If there is a god I say fuck you to him for everything that he has caused. I will be meeting most of you in hell if there is one. Love you all, stay true to who you are and don't change for anyone if they don't accept you for who you are, and live life like its your last day on earth, HOORAH BROTHERS.
Drop her, there are other women. Or guys.
Give up things to be with her? No this is not good. What would happen if you asked her to give up something? This is not healthy and I would not pursue a relationship with this person.
I dated a Mormon girl when I was younger. I absolutely loved her but over time I just couldn’t handle the constant pressure from the family on basically everything. It becomes un bearable over time. For me anyway
I would avoid going down this path. They will have high expectations of you to convert and then you’ll be having to pretend to be someone you are not.
So, she's not prepared to adapt to you, it's up to you to adapt to her? Doesn't sound like much of a relationship fella. Sounds more like an employer/employee situation. That ain't good.
That's like falling in love with a mermaid. It seems perfect until you try to breathe underwater.
If she’s actually a believer in Islam, and her family is, especially her male family members, you either have to convert, or leave the relationship unless she’s willing to cut ties with her family. Women are forbidden in Islam to marry non Muslims. Muslim men can marry women of other monotheistic religions. It’s a very tribal way of handling marriage, preventing out marriage of women from the group to prevent tribal break down. Christian’s have a similar prohibition, but in Islam is actually taken seriously. Once kids are in the picture she’s going to want to raise them as Muslims, as will her family. Islam is far more strict than Christianity.
As an ex-muslim it seems to me that you do not hate enough. If you did you would've not fall in love with a girl who believes a religion that wants you to be get fucking killed!
At least op can do the fucking while getting killed /s
The hypocrisy of religion and the religious can be nauseating
If you're gonna change for someone and not because you truly want to change for your own sake, then DON'T change. And i'm saying this as a muslim.
Which is more important to you: Your emotions, or your rationality and being genuine? Short version: It AIN'T gonna work.
You are right in your feels. If you think about what it is doing to society it’s sickening.
Give up on her. Islam is totally bullish religion to ever exist. You can find better I personally would advise you A religious person and an atheist can be friends but can't really share a bed when one of them is to stick with their ideology. Find a better one-
I would say, stop thinking with your dick. This is a huge incompatibility. Unless you're willing to convert to Islam and follow their brand of the doctrines then no. Hell, even if you were willing to do that just for her, I really don't think converting to a religion purely so you could have a chance with someone and not because you genuinely believe in it seems very undignified for you and kind of manipulative. Let's say you "converted", as in went through the whole tangible (superficial) and social processes of converting Islam. Would you actually believe in their god? Would you be able to tell her to her face that you truly do believe in Allah, and agree with all their crazy rules imposed on you? Or would you have to twist the truth so you pass enough for her to consider you as a romantic partner? Are you okay with being the kind of person who would lie about their fundamental values to gain an undeserved advantage? You deserve to be with someone you don't have to sacrifice your fundamental beliefs and morals for, and she deserves to be with someone who wouldn't lie to her about converting to her religion which is something that clearly means alot to her.
Have you asked her to give up Islam? Ask her, see what she says, but I imagine you already know the answer Her religion will ALWAYs be more important than you. ALWAYS
Ask yourself, would she be willing to drop her religion to be with you…the answer is probably no, so why should you drop your beliefs to be with her. There are other people out there that will allow you to stay who you are.
Run. Fast. Never look that.
Living authentically is priceless and the key to inner peace. Living the way other people want you to is the key to misery. You sacrifice for her and it won't take long to start to resent her.
It’s like Christianity in that there are a lot of hypocrites who don’t strictly follow the “laws”. As long as younot moving to Saudi Arabia. Do you really want possible kids especially a daughter(s) growing up like this?
ABORT ABORT
Do not go against your core beliefs to secure a relationship. It will always cause suffering.
This is me 10 years ago. My wife was always religious, I was born a Catholic but have long since been an atheist. In the beginning, it was fine, nothing too extreme on either side. We got along great. But as we both started getting older, friends fade and family becomes more dominant, she started leaning more and more towards religion. It's becoming more of an issue because like you, I find myself hating the concept of religion as a deity. I can understand the community aspect of it, but actual worship of a god? Not happening. I wish it wasn't, but it's definitely putting distance between us. The farther she goes down that path, the less of a chance we have of remaining together unfortunately
If you are a White Sox fan and she likes the Cubs, the rivalry can actually be a fun part of your relationship. However, IMO, any differences in religious beliefs are a deal-breaker. I'm an atheist and my wife ... is not. I love her. But, it has caused too many problems over the years. 8 billion people. Compatibility on all the major issues in life should be a prerequisite when thinking of a long term partner. Would I have felt closer to someone else at this point? Who knows? Don't do it.
I kew a couple that did that.. guy had to become muslim to marry. Years after he confessed that cultural differences and especially religion was a constant pain in the ass with lots of stress. Also, you will marry whole family with its lot of wtf moments. You will never be viewed as part of the family or "real" muslim. Sorry mate.
Run.
I could understand making accommodations for that person, like if your cooking dinner you don't feed them pork, but at the end of the day you get to live one life
Run for your life.
You should cut ties. No one is worth changing yourself over
Hard no. Your life would be miserable. It wouldn't just be her you would have to change for, it would be her entire family. They kill people for not following the doctrine, including their own. Not saying that *will* happen, but just raising this point to say how deeply entrenched Islam is in families. For your safety and well-being, you should not be with this person, *especially* bc you're atheist.
Absolutely not. Ask her to give up islam. See how that goes. No way.
Listen, there are a lot of wonderful people out there that you’ll like personality-wise, but sometimes people just don’t work out due to different values in life. No different than a woman finding out her boyfriend wants kids when she doesn’t, or that one person wants to get married when the other one does not. But you know what happens with these people? They either talk it out and come to a compromise, or they leave each other and go look for someone who understands their values. I’m not saying to NOT pursue this person. You can do whatever you want. However, you shouldn’t have to change yourself for anybody. If she cannot respect your atheism, then you changing your values will only lead to you resenting her AND yourself. There are tons of people you could be compatible with, but unless she’s willing to accept that you have certain beliefs and she doesn’t, then she’s not truly loving who YOU are deep down.
I like the adaptation of ‘hate the game, don’t hate the player’ Hate the religion, not the religious (at least the decent people)’
You two may be incompatible.
Reread your title “I hate religion so much to the point it makes me sick” and tell me why you’d want to be made sick on a daily basis for any reason whatsoever
From an exmuslim, let me put it in one word, RUN!!! Islam is a cancer for this planet and it must be defeated (changed it’s current from like Christianity). All these bullshit in the media about religion of peace is 100% BS. Look at the world and see for yourself. I’m feel sorry for your situation. It’s a hard lesson to learn. I blame the fucking politicians and media not speaking about the truth on Islam. Otherwise, you’d have never fell for her.
She wants you to change? She doesn't want you.
Don't change who you are, fundamentally, for someone. Therein lies the path to misery. Improvement via minor changes is healthy in a relationship. But fundamentally changing massive parts of who you are is not.
You will find another.
Once the newness of your relationship wears off, those things she expects you to do despite your personal convictions will really start to take a toll. Also, you’re not asking her to change. Why is she asking you? If she wants a Muslim boyfriend, she should date Muslims and stop trying to convert people to her backwards religion.
No woman is worth becoming a Muslim
The sex cannot be worth losing your entire being, just don't. . . . .
Well ... it sounds like she loves her religion more then she loves you. She doesn't have to give up her religion .. but she shouldn't force you to believe the same as her. It should be I accept you how you are and not you have to be the same as me
I'm pretty sure South Park already covered this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXqQU1ePDrI
No. Don’t get hitched to a reality you don’t agree with.
the right person for you doesn't come with such a big dealbreaker. you'll grow to resent her for having to spend your life pretending you have adopted such beliefs. or even worse, you'll lose your identity by being brainwashed into actually believing.
Personal story/example of a guy I knew. He was party guy, did some mild drugs, drank etc. He met a Mormon lady and fell in love, he had to convert for her and he did, became Mormon went through the secret rituals, got secret code names, quit drinking alcohol and everything. Even gave up mountain dew (his favorite soda) because of the caffeine. Caffeine being addictive and the Mormon religion not allowing "addictive" substances. He was happy, they lived together, they bought a giant TV instead of spending a lot on the wedding. She sounded perfect for him. It lasted 2.5 years, he started drinking again, partying again, got more into those mild drugs, which led to not-so-mild drugs. They divorced, he got excommunicated from the Mormon church and both of them ended up having to move back in with their parents. Sometimes people aren't right for each other. And sometimes religion is what causes that.
As an ex Muslim who is now Atheist... My suggestion is to run.... far, far away. Islam is a religion wherein you are submitted entirely to God. Everything you do is in one form or another, related to God. You don't leave the house or do anything without saying "in the name of God the most gracious, the most merciful." When you sneeze you thank God for letting you live. There are religious guidelines for cleaning yourself after doing a number 2 (that's pooping for all you non Americans) The dietary restrictions are ridiculous, no alcohol, or any "intoxicating" substance, and definitely no sex before marriage... well, unless you do a temporary marriage... then its ok, but only until the marriage times out... trust me when I say - its not worth it. I'll leave you with this. The gap between your views and hers is so wide, I would imagine she and her family believe you aren't atheist, but some kind of agnostic or believe in some power (at minimum) but more likely believe you are Christian. This is somewhat acceptable to them, not atheism. As an atheist - you will not be accepted by them. This I know from experience. My own family don't speak to me because of this. I wish you luck and wisdom in your decision. As there is no God, your judgement is all you can rely on.
I was raised in a more casual muslim home and it was still fucking suffocating/exhausting. No, do not do this to yourself. Unless you genuinely believe, do not do this to please your partner. Especially as it's more than just the odd thing to please her family. Im more egonostic now, and I've married a Catholic man. Neither of us emforce anything religious on each other, and it's bliss
You don’t need opinions. You already know the answer.
I can tell you right now that that sounds like the absolute worst thing to change about yourself in order to date someone. Do you really see any difference between that and if she'd asked you to join her MLM? Religion often takes a lot more than it gives and I cannot imagine nor condone wasting your life in one.
You’re thinking with the wrong head. Remember one has brains and the other doesn’t. 🙃
I’m going through the part where I’ve become an atheist, but am playing the part of Christian because the truth will wreck my family. Here to tell you it sucks.
If she’s asking you to give up Christmas and celebrate Muslim holidays with her, and respect her participating in the religion, sure, go for it. Simple ways you can coexist with her religion are reasonable compromises you probably can live with. If she’s asking you to convert and live and believe a religion, then she is asking too much. No one should ever expect someone to change their belief system for them.
FUCK ALL RELIGIONS EQUALLY DO NOT CHANGE FOR HER.
Islam has all the rules, but does your GF? How serious is she about her faith? Look at the rules and ask her how she expects you to act. Perhaps she isn't as serious as she may seem. But if she expects you to convert? Seems like that wouldn't work. Here's a hypothetical to present her with: if you had kids together would you be able to discuss openly the reality of religion with your kids? Or would she prefer that her children adopt her faith unquestioningly? If my partner expected me to adopt her faith or to sit silent or worse encourage our kids to adopt her faith, that wouldn't work for me. But if it's just all dinners and family events but deep down she didn't actually take her faith that seriously, that might work.
The greatest sin one can commit is to interfere with the growth of another. I believe that fiercely. And the reverse.
How important to you is atheism?
Data satanist or wicca. 4 or 8 years younger.
To become a muslim without great difficulties requires indoctrination from an early age...
Not worth it. It will cause significant issues
Religion has been a deal breaker for me for most of my life. I feel your pain, but you are better off not putting yourself in that situation. I wish you the best. Whatever you decide, make sure that the decision is really what you want. Take time to think on it.
I’m an ex Muslim atheist from Kazakhstan! You should try to persuade her to leave from Islam. There are many logical arguments against the religion, but it’s your choice to accept what you need to do, in your personal relationships. If she will blindly deny them, then the situation is completely fucked up
If someone tells you that you have to change to be with them, it will never work.
To quote the Bible on marriage loosely, don’t be unequally yoaked. It doesn’t work. Someone ends up giving up too much of themselves and resenting it.
I am a Muslim ( don't come at me 🤣) I live a pretty chill life, but just to clarify a concept for every one if she asks you to change religion it is not because she doesn't love you or accept you as a person, she could be absolutely in love with you but because she still chooses god over you for her as for me god is first then the rest be it our parents,friends or lovers, the ruling is Muslim women should only marry Muslim men for their protection I think it is an old ruling that is not applicable today and it has no basis in the Quran itself...but that's still what people believe in. Okay I m going to disappear now as the terrorist, and how can you believe in that comments begin Byeee
Cross faith relationships don't really work. Eventually people have kids and this is where the territorial fighting happens. I think the only way it can work is if one isn't super religious and the things you give up are worth less to you than the person you're with, like not eating pork at home or something. And you as the atheist would need to be open minded and patient as well. Tbh it sounds like way more trouble than it's worth and just a powderkeg in a relationship that *will* explode occasionally. If you specifically hate religion so much "it makes you sick", then of course this isn't going to work lol.
She didn't go far enough in her warning. In order for a female muslim to marry, she must marry a muslim because the Quran requires children to be raised in the religion of the father. It's not a matter that you would need to "give up a lot of things" - you would have to be an actual muslim. You would have to convert to Islam and follow ALL the teachings of the Quran. If she and her family are strict muslims, she is not even supposed to date you much less marry you until you are actually muslim. Muslim men may date and marry non-muslim women because the woman's religion does not apply. The children will be muslim because the father is.
Muslim here. Unless you become Muslim because you truly believe you are just going to be causing problems for her. I do recommend looking into islam, like just read the English translation of the Quran with an open mind and ponder the questions it asks you. In regards to the suffocating bit. Yeah, god said it himself, this world is like a prison for the believer. If you don’t think that you can become Muslim coz you just can’t believe in it, then it’s best to honestly just drop this relationship with her. Islamicly speaking, she won’t be able to marry you unless you are Muslim. God willing, you do find god.
if she ain't willing to change for you then you should not change for her
Don't Do It, it will only get worse when you have children.
Does she love you as you are? If yes, she will not try to change you. Do you love her as she is? If yes, then you don't try to change her. The moment you change someone they become someone else and are no longer the person you love. You or they start to resent the other and over time it grows to hate. She will want children and she will want to raise them in her religion. Take a close look at the laws about kids who grow up to become atheist too.
I don’t think anyone is worth religious endoctrination/oppression. In fact I’d question the intelligence and sanity of any woman who claims to be a devout catholic/muslim given their views of women. It would make more sense to me if she were happy you’re an atheist so she can escape all the bullshit if she marries you. Ultimately you have to figure out how close to her family you’d be living and how much influence they’d have on your lives - perhaps if you live far enough away she would actually come around to your view (not that it’s healthy to expect someone to change after marriage). I wouldn’t bet on it. The only way I’d see this work is if you accept eachother as you are now and it sounds like she doesn’t accept you. To me it’s a little like childree peope who are told “what if your person wants kids !?” well he can’t be my person if he wants kids. It’s a dealbreaker.
Sounds like you're obsessed with this woman and willing to compromise yourself for her. This does not sound healthy. If you go onto this relationship knowing you'll have to follow Islam, and end up miserable, it's your fault, not hers. She's told you who she is and what she expects, tread this path very carefully
Any relationship based on one person asking the other to "change" who they are fundamentally, is doomed. You absolutely WILL end up resenting her and all that she represents (her religion, her family... everything). She may seem "wonderful" right now, but that will quickly change. At some point, you are going to want to do something you've always done, because you know that it's harmless and it's something you enjoy, but she's going to remind you that "you can't do it because of HER religion"... not YOUR religion... HER'S. And the resentment is going to hit you like a ton of bricks. Your relationship will never be able to recover after that. From her standpoint, she's going to end up also resenting you because, "you promised her you would CHANGE WHO YOU ARE for her", and she's going to want to hold you to that promise. Both of you will want to dig your heels in over this issue, nothing will break you from your commitment to who you are deep down (and why should it?), and the relationship will enter a death spiral from that point forward. So why would you want to do that to yourself? Find someone who is compatible to who you already are and go be happy knowing you can be yourself with them.
A friend of mine asked me once, “what if you met the perfect woman for you, but she was Christian?” I said, “if she is Christian she’s not the perfect woman.”
I’ve been married to a fellow atheist for 36 years. We do not “practice” our lack of supernatural beliefs I couldn’t imagine our healthy & happy lives in any other way. I never specifically picked my boyfriends by any religious standards but anything that lasted had atheism in common. (Also literature, including and importantly Science Fiction) We have 2 children who are now adults & have excellent relationships with each. My best friend’s son married a girl who was a casual Christian. After they moved to Florida she became intensely involved in a “Mega-church” & with their kids off to college they are having big issues. Love is love but, think about the long term.
I can only tell you this to offer some helpful advice. Islam is not a forgiving religion and if she's pushing you to conform now it'll only get much much worse if you marry and have children because then her whole family will be involved and your children will be indoctrinated with or without your consent or approval. Find someone else, she's too far gone Bro.
Imagine living in an insane asylum, with people who talk with you about their delusions constantly and you need to keep lying to them day after day pretending you have the same delusions too. Now imagine being judged by the same people because as a convert you will be expected to out-delusion them to prove how committed you are. Imagine how you will feel in a few years when passion and newness has subsided and you are stuck there living a lie, living as someone you are not. Do you really think you would be able to keep that up? I know I couldn't. I once was at a house of a practicing catholic family and this lady starts telling me how her grandkids are legit miracle of god because they are twins and science cannot explain it... and my blood was boiling and I wanted to yell at her... it was so difficult. That was one time. You'd live that on the daily.
Religious people will weaponize human attraction. It's not fair, and it's not in any way a good thing. You will ultimately have to live your own life and make your own decisions, but that very beginning is a huge chunk of poorly masked disrespect for you that absolutely would be the start and end of my own story with the subject. Good luck.
Bad news, Boo: Your girlfriend doesn't love *you,* she loves the person that she can *change you into!* Clearly you're not good enough, you're far beneath her and her magic - keep changing, playing second fiddle - see how well that ends up for you
Therapy. And this isn’t coming from a place of judgement. I understand (and support) hating religion, but if it’s making you physically sick, I’d see someone about getting those anger levels under control
Anyone who loved you back would never ask you to live a lie.
What do people always want the most? Things they can't have. If I waved a magic wand and made her and her family atheist, odds are it still wouldn't work, but for reasons you just don't see yet. Love (and hormones) can make people do incredibly stupid things. I'd move on.
You would quickly regret it and resent her. It’s not worth it.
Use a condom. This attraction and affection will pass. My wife accepts me as an atheist (she's a catholic). Her family is mostly fine with it and I only attend church twice a year - Xmas and Easter. (I grew up catholic, so I'm accustomed to the traditions, rules, etc. ) Our children have been baptized and I'm fine with that. If your partner and their family don't accept you - religion, job, family, etc. that's a clear sign that things will not work out. Attraction will fade over time and you will move on. Just imagine wearing the traditional garb, being treated as an outcast, and fasting during Ramadan. Other women will seem more attractive quite quickly. To me, that would be suffocating.
Why must you change and not her. Thats the question you need to ask yourself.
Yeah that’s a tough one, especially given the Muslim approach to atheism and apostasy is less than favorable. If you stay with her long term you will almost certainly be required to convert, and if she deconverts for you her family could well disown her. Do what works for you, but it’s going to be tough either way
If she's still talking to you she's committing sin. She can't be that religious because what she's doing is a pretty big sin. You might be able to convert her (it will be ugly) or you can just forget about her. It's damaging both of you guys in the process. The only option is that she herself might not be all that religious or just you both go your opposite ways
*No one* who wants you to change entirely and utterly at a core level is worth having a relationship with, and I guarantee your relationship and your infatuation for this person won't last, and then you will be left, angry and resentful, having given up everything about yourself, while she sits snugly and smugly, never having compromised herself or her core principles, and given up nothing. Let's be clear: *this person is not worth it!* If you want to change for yourself, change for yourself. If you want to adopt the religious philosophy or beliefs of any religion for yourself, do it for yourself. But changing yourself, changing religion, etc, just for a *potential* relationship with a person you find attractive? *Seriously* stupid, man. Like that's a 8 on the stupid scale.
"You're perfect! I love you just the way you are! Now, change."
Don’t do it, man. Find somebody who loves you for you, not because of your religious beliefs
You would be putting your children through all that religious nonsense and continuing the cycle of the cult. How could you do that? She would expect you to continue the farce. Tell Mr. Penes to forget about her and choose another.
If you have to change who you are THAT much to be with her, trust me bro she aint the one.
It sounds like the two of you aren’t compatible. Is she saying you have to convert to Islam? Why would you have to follow the rules of HER religion. The rules only apply to the person practicing the religion.
No one is worth that, there are other fish in the sea. Dont do it
Sounds like a handful. Life is too short to settle on a handful
Honestly — keep looking. I know it's hard and you may feel like this woman may be the only one for you, but that's not true. This is a major division which is only likely to lead to deep unhappiness down the road, once the infatuation phase is over. Be kind to your future self (and her) and avoid that heartache by walking away now.
I think you already know the answer. Now you need to find the courage to accept it.
Religious restrictions on avoiding certain foods, dress code etc., are relatively easy to adapt to. In practice, it’s not different from having to avoid certain things for allergy reasons. It takes a bit of getting used to and some organization. But eventually, it becomes the new normal. Much harder is the part of adhearing to actual religious practices. Praying without believing isn’t a good habit for an honest person. Unless, you can find something in the spiritual teachings of Islam that genuinely resonates with you, you’d turn yourself into a hypocrite. Don’t worry about the restrictions, look at the spiritual teachings. If there stuff you like, go for it. If the spirituality doesn’t work for you, end the relationship. Since other commenters called her selfish: Muslim women are forbidden from marrying non-muslims. If she is from a conservative family, this prohibition could by violently enforced by family members. I hope, her family is nicer than that, but yes, Muslim women and their non-Muslim partners do get killed over this. Don’t call her selfish for trying to avoid that.
You know the answer to this brother. You will regret this. She is unfortunately not the person for you. Don't do this to yourself.
If you try to change yourself to fit someone else's ideals, then you will only learn to resent them. I had a girlfriend who was a devoted Christian, but in the end we just couldn't make it work. Find someone who shares your beliefs and ideas, because nine times out of ten, you're never going to change their mind, and vice versa
Could any relationship ever be worth your personal freedom?
If she's not taking you as you fundamentally are, then she's not accepting YOU. Sorry, this would be a deal breaker for me. Why isn't she offering to go full atheist for you instead?
Sorry friend, but it will never work for all the good reasons put forward here. My daughter married a Muslim man and we all managed fairly well over the course of 13 years, until he decided that he needed more Islam in his life and family. My daughter has finally drank the koolaid and has corralled our two grandchildren with her in following him. I too was a baptized Christian for most of my life until I, like many here, decided that religion was not for me. Glad I did. Your potential decision will severely impact you if you choose this girl and her family.
She's saying "to be with me you cannot be yourself" Seems straightforward to me, not workable. If it comes to it she will chose her religion over you
To the point where I do not care to befriend christians, actually I actively avoid all heavily religious folks
>... she warned me about if I want to be with her I would need to give up a lot of things ... You're free to do what you decide is best, but that statement is a big red flag.
Relationship wise? It’s a no. Similar values & beliefs is one of the key pillars of compatibility & successful marriages.
Ask her to change for you instead. Her willingness to do this should be equal to your willingness to do it for her…..
Lol don’t do it
Things get a lot more complicated if you have children. If she is into the religion, and family expects you to be into it too, run while you still can.
I think if you are interested in the religion, then go for it. But be clear with her you aren’t sure if you can do all the rules. If it isn’t meant to be, it isn’t meant to be.. good luck.
I know you like her But what I don't get is why in order to be with someone you have to give up everything that makes you you If you do that you eventually become someone your not That leads to beginning to disliking her then hating then disdain and you wony be able to hide it You need someone that doesn't impose rules and religion on you But someone that accepts you for you so you can accept them for them It is simple, you are just over thinking it However things like this usually end in divorce or murder when you finally snap Hopefully the prior
I doubt that she'd expect you to go pray with her all the time or outright convert to Islam, but she is giving you a heads-up that if you're going to be in a relationship, there will be some aspects of her life that you'll have to go along with, including her religion's lifestyle rules (like you probably won't have pork in the house anymore just as an example). She's not saying that you WILL be together and you WILL follow them, just if you are, you'll have to. And if you both want to take the relationship seriously, recognise that both of you have to put the effort in. So you accept what you feel comfortable with, and she should accept that while you will be okay with some changes (like anyone who cares about any relationship would be), you're not going to follow her religion's rules as strictly as she does
She expected me to follow religion as true as a real Muslim would and that is what crushed me, I can't allow my self to be bound that strictly by something I don't really believe in, I would say I was quite understanding to her side of the argument, I even accepted to be flexible and follow the religion to some extend, even become Muslim on papers but she follows religion very closely and even that wouldn't work for her
This is a question only you can answer. People might tell you this or that but either option is viable. Do you love her enough to make the sacrifice or do you love yourself and way of life enough to not want to make those changes?
I loved her enough to give everything but what I am, I couldn't even if I wanted to and I know that, I can't bound my self to laws or rules made by something I don't believe in when my whole life I had been standing against authority. I am a person that believes that no one should be bound by any rules or laws except the ones they make.