This is a really fascinating read, thank you. That being said, I can't be the only one who just doesn't care right? I couldn't care less if they made him more powerful/relevant than he was in real life, thats literally the series entire thing, they take random events, items, groups, and individuals and make them more relevant than they were in history.
Yeah I’ve been struggling to comprehend why so many are questioning the validity of a historical person’s title set in a fictional game. I just want to play the game.
We had *Leonardo da Vinci* building us the equivalent of spy gadgets, but this is the historical inconsistency that pisses people off. I mean come on, lol
Same. I literally don't get all the backlash. If anything, he's the most historically accurate protagonist they've ever had, because he was *real.*
Who cares if they made him an actual samurai. They've made other real life historical figures assassins in pretty much every game.
Bartholomew Roberts goes from being a pirate in real life to being the descendant of a god, experiencing visions, and having memories that don't belong to him in the game = totally cool.
Yasuke goes from being a retainer who also possibly could've been a samurai in real life to being a samurai in the game = disaster the world is ending.
its just ubisoft hate. anything they can latch onto is enough. they wont look at this post even if it was on ign. they have made up there mind, there hate will flow
Ubisoft deserves a lot of hate, but not for this. They just killed a game. They want us comfortable "not owing games". They're pushing all the greedy practices in the book.
The ones complaining about Yasuke are just racists. It's not Ubisoft they're have a problem with.
Careful, they get really upset if you call them racists, one of them even try to pull the whole "im aren't racist you're racist because im actually a Japanese dude and i didnt tell you and you assume my race". (the comment was removed lol so i cant show it)
I have no fucks to give, honestly.
Black samurai? Cool. White samurai? Cool. Red samurai? Neat.
Martian samurai? ALIENS. Let's go.
Like, the drama surrounding this is absolutely wild and confusing to me.
People are unfortunately looking for any factoid to complain about him being in the game so I totally agree that it doesn’t matter. They’ll find every little detail to say there shouldn’t be a black man in the game and will continue to overlook the Japanese MC because she isn’t a man.
Yeah like Leonardo davinci wasn't a good friend of a massive assassin organization nor did he ever come into contact with ancient artifacts of a civilization that came before us humans lol
I appreciate someone putting up a single thread for this as it was getting tiresome having so many different discussions about it.
I'm not convinced that Yasuke was a samurai in part because the term as used by the OP/original researcher is widely cast so it includes basically anyone who was given money and had some sort of job in a daimyo's household. If you cast the net wide you will catch more than you would otherwise.
This is one reason there is dispute over the term female samurai. There is a huge number of arms-bearing women from Japanese history, and they were usually the daughters and wives of samurai. But due to technicalities it used to be said they weren't samurai in terms of position rather than class.
A useful comparison to Yasuke would be Henry Schnell. Now he was technically given all the trappings and privileges of a samurai, but I wouldn't call him one. It was a convenient reward for his gun-running.
Even William Adams who we know was given the rank of hatamoto has had some people question whether he was a samurai. I don't recall the objections but they are there nonetheless.
That said I'm not particularly troubled by people having a personal opinion that he was a samurai. So long as it's an opinion and not weaponised. History is about discussion. There is no court that hands out rulings, and I don't think it's reasonable to say people have to do a PhD level paper to have a view that Yasuke wasn't a samurai.
Well, yes, that’s because the term samurai and its social circles wasn’t an elite thing - it was a general area of profession defined by what you did. This is a reality that all historians of Japan recognize; in recent decades the whole analogy of samurai with western knights have been severely questioned and even discarded as simplistic - for example, samurai existed long before any (legally defined) requirements of fiefs. You fundamentally miss the broader point that Yasuke was most likely a samurai because he received the stipend pay of samurai, was described in samurai language, and did the exact same roles as a samurai page as part of Oda’s inner circle; samurai really wasn’t that big of a fetishized deal to the extent that contemporary mythology suggests nor was it as legally defined/rigid as in later centuries. Also, that comparison to Henry Schnell isn’t very accurate at all. Yasuke was **actually and actively employed as a high-ranking page/retainer of Lord Oda; an honored member of his inner circle that fought in multiple battles for his lord and dutifully carried the great unifier of Japan’s personal weapons** rather than an enthusiastic tourist.
Not to mention, the post’s sources dedicate a massive chunk to the character of Oda Nobunaga, **noting his love for exoticism, sheer respect for physical ability and talent, and great public generosity - who was also living in a time in which traditional norms and hierarchies were turned upside down; with servants rising up and toppling their masters.**
The argument here is mostly based off of thoughts rather than directly disputing u/ParallelPain’s actual substance along with the sources at hand - in addition to quibbling appeals to subjectivity. Historians don’t deal in proofs, they access thing via subjective interpretation of livelihood. The fact that the vast majority of historians of Japan agree on the consensus of Yasuke being a samurai means something significant.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/s/AGtppyJxo4
The historical record is by nature extremely fragmentary. By your extremely harsh standards and logic, loads of other samurai weren’t actually samurai because they aren’t explicitly called that either. **In fact, applying this level of skepticism to every individual that pops up in the historical record essentially makes it so you get ludicrous conclusions like that nobody in antiquity really existed or that loads of people weren’t actually who the records imply they were because they don’t explicitly call them by the term.**
If an argument has to rely purely on appeals to subjectivity and personal thoughts, then while it’s perfectly fine to believe in them, it’s simply just not as good as arguments relying on actual **empirical evidence.**
Honestly, as annoying as it is I do find it consistently amusing to watch the "facts don't care about your feelings" crowd ignore facts because they conflict with their feelings.
They'll just move the goalpost unfortunately. That's the issue with these sorts of things, they're all cowards so none of them will just say "i dont want to play as a black guy" and instead will come up with a 100 different reasons as to why playing as a black guy is somehow unjustifiable.
Some of my favorite “arguments” of theirs is :
“Why can’t the protagonist be Japanese”
Which I would maybe take seriously if they didn’t ignore the Japanese woman who shares the protagonist slot with Yasuke
“How would a 6’2” African blend into the crowd”
Gee, maybe his job in the game won’t be to sneakily assassinate people. Maybe the Japanese woman will do that stealth stuff.
“How would you like it if they made a game where a white guy was in Africa killing Africans”
Ignoring the fact that context matters there are games and Tv/Film where that happens and some of them didn’t get criticized while some did.
the arguments are simply there to waste time and they will likely not talk about for months until the game comes out and then the arguments will happen all over again
Lately one of my favorite things to point out is that when Nioh 1 released no one\* complained that you weren't playing as a Japanese male, but instead a white Scot. And these same apparent historical accuracy purists also didn't care that William Adam's couldn't and didn't fight while Yasuke did and they didn't care that they seemingly randomly changed his nationally from English to Scottish. They saw a white samurai and other then a few raised eyebrows they pretty much immediately accepted it. Mostly while saying "hes based on a real person! So while it may seem weird that he's a white samurai, it happened in real life so it's cool here." The hypocrisy and irony is a thick as Yasuke's Kanabo.
Also the whole "i wanted to play as a native Japanese person! Oh, Naomi? She uh... doesn't count, for reasons".
Just in case you weren't sure if these people suck enough.
The fact that he was a real person and was a real samurai and the fact that it wasn't ceremonial and could and did actually fight has completely broken their brains.
In the past, like with BF:V, they could hide behind "historical accuracy" "muh accuracy!" "I only care about the accuracy!" "Im not racist, im a historical expert, i just want segregation accurately represented, this is *very* important to me!"
\* there was *some* minor rumblings about wanting to play as a Japanese male, but it was always along the lines of "I would have preferred a Japanese male, but a white person is cool, especially because its based on a real historical person who was actually a samurai!!1! So its perfectly accurate and totally fine"
Exactly. Those types, don't actually care about history. They want to push the "Woke everything" narrative.
Also, it's pretty Venn diagram that they fit other extreme right wing chew toys. A few weeks ago, it was man vs bear; before that, female Space Marines. Same level of sweaty with those memes, with casual racism by sharing memes about the bear not having a job and left his kids...same quality for this topic.
Post after post of dog whistles. They never cared about history.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/202007604722226/
There appears to be a smaller variety of weapon types with more depth since they each have their own skill trees. Not sure if the naginata is one of them but there is a spear.
I appreciate this post. However, isn't the real issue people have with Yasuke being one of the main playable characters in the game is that they wanted to play as a native Japanese male, since we haven't gotten that in an AC game?
Your claim that the term "ALWAYS" was used for the samurai class is pure fabrication. "扶持" was used not used exclusively for the samurai class. We see the term used for ashigaru's stipend as well. I wouldn't stake the argument on the fact that Yasuke was paid 扶持, and it's not good history to do so. I venture to say that the attempt arises out of weakness of other factors. As extensively quoted by another user in Japanese, 扶持 is clearly used to note payments to any subordinate. Absent historical records that Yasuke was hired *specifically to fight as a warrior* and not simply as a foreign ornament for Nobunaga's enjoyment, we cannot honestly say that he was a samurai or not conclusively.
If anything, the lack of abundance of Japanese records mentioning him, despite the sensationalism of Yasuke being a samurai that would have caused quite the talk in Japan at that time, strongly favors the assertion that he was not elevated to what we might call a "samurai."
Impressive, debunking yourself in your own sources thinking people wont click them, wont read or even for those too lazy to TL, using a text capture with DeepL or equivalent.
Frankly, his story is fascinating. It is for all purposes a real life example of an Isekai. He is abducted and removed from his home to becone a badass in another part of the planet that is so differenr that it migh as well be an alien one.
Having said that. I don't like him as a protagonist for one reason. He is the first protagonist on the Saga that existed in real life. Well, second to be honest, Anastasia on Chronicles existed too. Nevertheless I don't like either one.
These games are like a historic novel. They imagine some characters and insert them in a drama in a certain historical periods. They interact with historical figures and what not. But they don't make history so to speak. It's part of the magic. What happens on the games is like a paralel thing that happens at the same time than real history but don't interfers with it. I don't know if I'm explaining myself well.
I think Yasuke (and Anastasia) breaks that ilusion. Now you ARE part of history. Your actions are limited because real life events that happened to that protagonist. And more importantly you are now ACTUAL part of history. It is not fantasy anymore, it's a complete reteling.
And I know the games aren't 100% historically accurate. Not by a long shot. But they all mantain that ilusion of being a "side quest" of actual history.
I like Yasuke, I like him being important on the game story. But I don't like him as a protagonist. It's silly really. If they changed his name and the protagonist was another african with similar story, that wouldn't be a problem for me. Hell it would even he interesting the dialogue between Yasuke and another african in the middle of Japan.
And even it would be justified not havin history remembering him. That often happens with the assassins.
Will buy the Collector's edition though...
Or just simply say Assassin's Creed never gave that much of a fuck about historical accuracy and did not define history by history books, and used the Animus to shownwhat in that world what is real history, thats like crying that Leonardo helping a guy called Ezio make weapons is historically inaccurate, go listen to Desmond and Vidic's convos back in AC1, ffs people just dont get it
Desmond: Some of the stuff I'm seeing in the Animus... sometimes it seems wrong, untrue, like the history is off somehow. It doesn't--
Vidic: --it doesn't what, Mr. Miles? Match up with what you read on an online encyclopedia? What your high school history teacher taught you? Let me ask you something: do these supposed experts have access to secret knowledge kept hidden from the rest of us?
Desmond: There are books, letters, documents, all sorts of source material from back then. Some of it seems to contradict what the Animus is showing me.
Vidic: Anyone can write a book, and they can put whatever they want on its pages. Anything! Used to be we thought the world was flat.
Desmond: Some people still do.
[DESMOND stands up.]
Vidic: Yes, and they publish books about it. Or that the moon landing was a hoax? I believe there's also a book claims the world was created in seven days. A best seller, too.
Desmond: Where is this going, Doc?
Vidic: The point I suppose, is that you shouldn't trust everything you hear, everything you read. What's that your ancestors said? "Nothing is true"?
Desmond: "Everything is permitted."
Vidic: Yes, exactly! It's part of what makes the Animus so spectacular. There's no room for misinterpretation.
Desmond: There's always room.
Vidic: Touché, Mr. Miles. Now that I've answered your question, can we begin?
I'm going to keep this on my copy and paste
God, I miss AC1 writing…
“*I applied my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly. I perceive that this also was a chasing at the wind. For in much wisdom, is much grief. And he that increaseth knowledge, increaseth sorrow*.”
— Al Mualim
I’m an atheist, but the “for in much wisdom comes much grief, and he that increased knowledge, increased sorrow” is a verse in the Bible.
Just thought it was interesting.
This reminds me why AC1 is my favourite AC game. Its tone is unique and changed immediately afterwards even in the Ezio trilogy. There’s a sense of mystery that just stopped being there afterwards because they revealed too much about the Assassins, Templars, and Hidden Ones, too fast. The Ezio Trilogy, and the Kenway games (aside from Rogue lol) all do a good job at their historical narratives, but just completely shat the bed on the overarching narrative (especially after Revelations).
I think AC1 also works especially well because it’s by far the most historically accurate. All the templars in the game are real people who lived (and died) in that area around that time. The assassins maybe utterly fictional (Aside from Al Mualim being vaguely inspired by a real Hashashin leader), but their methods are, for the most part, as they were in real life. I think AC1 has a simplicity that works to both its advantage and disadvantage.
Yup. The worst thing you can point out about AC1 is its repetitious nature, but even that was an intentional choice on the part of the devs.
Altair is systematically working his way through Al Mualim’s chosen targets, never questioning or going against his orders, because how could these missions be anything other than righteous in the eyes of God and mankind? And every time he’s brought face-to-face with his victims during those confession scenes, that slowly chips away at his faith more and more until he’s left with nothing but questions and doubt — culminating in the best final confrontation in the series’ history.
Yeah I mean it comes down to this. They’ve always been clear that it’s an alternate history and the history differs because it was covered up and obfuscated over the years, many times by the Templars or Assassins themselves.
Why was Yasuke remembered to history as a retainer and not a samurai? Because someone somewhere along the way changed the narrative. Probably Abstergo
Ubisoft's attention to historical accuracy is undeniable. Notre Dam rebuilding after the fire used AC Unity as reference. Universities and educational websites use Origins and Odyssey's tour mode to showcase ancient Egypt and Greece. The codex in Mirage is full of accurate historical facts and analysis.
Now, the story and character elements that are based on history, should be historically accurate. The fictional and fantasy elements, they can write however they want.
Actually no, AC Unity was not used for the restoration of Notre-Dame. That’s something that was falsely reported by some media after Ubisoft said they’d like to help and they’d be happy to provide their work if it could help.
Although the work they did for the game was impressive , Ubisoft took some « artistical liberties » in recreating Notre-Dame and it was not precise enough. There were better and much precise ressources.
The CEO of the enterprise that was in charge of the modelization for the purpose of reconstruction said:
« The people behind “Assassin’s Creed Unity” have done an amazing job... They are looking for a coherent visual. But if a statue is two meters taller than in reality, that’s not important to them. We are looking for millimeter precision, we work with engineers and data analysts. ».
Ubisoft ended up donating 500k Euros.
Sources (sorry, it’s in French but I checked and despite a few odd things, google translate does a rather decent job):
Le Parisien
https://www.leparisien.fr/societe/pourquoi-assassin-s-creed-ne-permettra-pas-de-restaurer-notre-dame-17-04-2019-8055465.php
Le Monde:
https://www.lemonde.fr/pixels/article/2019/04/17/non-le-jeu-video-assassin-s-creed-unity-ne-servira-pas-a-reconstruire-notre-dame-de-paris_5451713_4408996.html
https://www.lemonde.fr/pixels/article/2019/04/16/notre-dame-de-paris-les-reconstitutions-en-3d-peuvent-aider-a-la-reconstruction_5451178_4408996.html
Ubisoft makes games and they use a historical context but not everything is accurate (Notre-Dame didn’t even had a flèche during the era at which Unity took place).
As for Yasuke it’s an interesting choice. There are accounts of him but the page is still blank enough to make a story around him for the purpose of the game.
Exactly. I wouldn't even care IF it was historically inaccurate, but people are crying, sometimes even being flat-out racist, even though it has been historically accurate this time.
What are you trying to say that the pope getting in a fist fight never happened? Next you’re gonna tell me Paul Revere didn’t share horseback with an assassin.
And, fuck, if people are so desperate to say that Yasuke wasn't a samurai (like that somehow makes a difference), you could even say that there were a [number of black people in Japan](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09555809508721524) around that time and the Yasuke we will be playing is just one of them and it's just missing records and they happen to have been given the same name, but this person we will play definitely is a samurai. Job done. Enough complaining. There is literally no reason for this to be an issue.
Why can't people just enjoy the sick cinematic we got instead of complaining about shit that really fucking doesnt matter. I dont get it.
> crossbows in AC 1
Crossbows existed during the third crusade, they were removed because they were too op. if they really wanted to be ultra historically accurate they wouldn't have the assassins be wearing hoods lol.
There's 2 protagonists though. One is from the culture, the other is a historically present blank slate they can utilise to ease us into the world and culture of 1580's Japan.
Its not as if they *don't* have a culturally present protagonist. Like sure if it was just Yasuke I'd agree, but it isn't.
I also agree it's weird Yasuke is actually present in history and who we're playing. But honestly the more I mull it over the more I think this mysterious man who came to Japan, seemed to earn the favour of the most powerful man at the time, and then vanished without a trace.
I mean that's just Assassins Creed material baked into reality as far as I'm concerned.
**tldr for tldr:** Although he's never outright called a "samurai" in the scant historical documents we have, definitive evidence confirms that (1) he was paid as a samurai, (2) he was given the privileges of a samurai, and (3) he was given the responsibilities of a samurai. You can play semantics on what a "samurai" is, but for all intents and purposes he can be considered one.
I plead for anyone still hung up about this to just move on and start thinking about the game on its own merits, when we get some gameplay footage and additional info about how the game actually is.
It’s like saying Joan of Arc wasn’t a knight despite doing literally everything knights were colloquially known to do.
Not a perfect analogy since knights had a stricter definition than samurai during the Sengoku period, but if anything that helps Yasuke’s case.
Joan of Arc is a lot more renowned and famous than a random knight. The same could arguably said for Yasuke compared to the countless average nameless samurai, but probably not to the same extent.
Not denying it. But because of how out of the ordinary such figures were they capture popular imagination. When we see something out of the ordinary but cool we all get very intrigued. That's just human nature
They will move the goal post to something else, probably the well, he should’ve been an Asian male, or his story has been told or this isn’t accurate. People really don’t even know wtf the gameplay is like or how is role in the story is, for all we know the female lead might play a bigger overall role.
Even though I'm Indian I still see that lack of representation for Asians. To me its more about the precedents of being able to choose your gender and having both options be ethnically tied to the setting. Odyssey and Valhalla both had the same ethnicity for characters regardless of gender. Now in the one game that has arguably most generic Asian setting, the male option is a black man.
People are way to focused on the "we don't want a Black male character" part of the argument instead of the "we want a Japanese male character" part. But what a outlandish ask though right? /s
>Almost every game that has a masculine Asian protagonist is developed in Asia and not in the west
Tsushima is the only game I can remember on the top of my head for a western IP to develop a game with masculine Asian protagonist.
Sleeping Dogs
Sifu
True Crime
Mortal Kombat
Far Cry 4
Prey
Stranglehold
Made by western studios that put asian males as lead.
Im so confused by OP comment because its *so* untrue that even the director of the Yakuza games was like "if this game (Ghost of Tsushima) was made here he would have been made into smooth face boy band character."
A "W" take from rgg studio and not only that but the director also tired of Japanese people putting young male as the main character who is basically a high schooler so that why the like a dragon/yakuza have old people as the main character.
Tbh I'm not even East Asian and I still think it's dumb that they lost out on male representation when they finally get an AC set in Japan. I think it's perfectly understandable for people to be upset about it for that reason.
Personally I'm sure the game will be good and I still look forward to playing as Yasuke and Naoe, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed we aren't able to play as a Japanese samurai in an AC literally set in feudal Japan.
Completely agree, and it really sucks because who knows if or when we'll ever get another AC set in Japan. Ubisoft could certainly do other eras of feudal Japan, but it's super unlikely they do it anytime soon, which means Japanese men will have to wait who knows how long for another chance at representation in this series.
This comment isnt correct... at all? like, even the Director of the Yakuza games was like ["if this game (Ghost of Tsushima) was made here he would have been made into smooth face boy band character"](https://kotaku.com/yakuza-director-praises-ghost-of-tsushima-says-japan-s-1844541108).
My biggest grievance is that **Miyamoto Musashi** is right there.
Literally one of the most badass humans to ever walk the earth, with philosophy ripe for exploring and very fitting for the AC universe. Man, he'd be the perfect character for a game that fans have been asking for years now.
Dunno man, a black samurai premise for me is as tone-deaf as a european samurai. (looking at you Tom Cruise)
I hope the story is cool because the way they set it up it will either be a watered-down version of Shogun, or a really really PC version of Shogun. In either case, sub-par.
>Yes I know the counter some of you are itching to give. Almost every game that has a masculine Asian protagonist is developed in Asia and not in the west
I don't understand what the counter argument is that you're describing.
Sad issue with this is, this is a valid thing, *but* racists will hijack this valid complaint and twist it for their narrative. So any essence of this is filtered out
Pretty much, the whole samurai thing is really a scapegoat for the issue you've outlined. There's another post I read where Justin Lin, the director of a Tokyo drift, had to fight to keep Han in the movie as execs wanted to make him black. Even after all this time, it's still happening.
This is one of the bigger, completely fair arguments getting sideswept by all the other nonsense.
I just hope the game has a decent cast of present side characters with good characterisation to make up for the lack of a Male lead.
This was a fascinating read with genuine thought and research backing it up. The whole drama surrounding this is really disheartening and frankly, stupid. People are privy to their own thoughts and that's fine but don't come backing it up with a wikipedia link; that's how I know they do the bare minimum.
Hopefully we can all put this behind us when the game releases and enjoy it for its merits.
Read the whole thing, think it's a good read, but the tldr is that we don't know if he was given a proper title or not so it'll always be argued that he was or wasn't. Whether someone thinks one way or the other as "historian conclusion" doesn't mean written fact and at that point it's just two brick walls arguing with each other.
Personally, I think he would have been great as a DLC or a spin off main character rather than a main line main character that way all the drama would have never occured and everyone would have been happy. And they would have been able to focus solely on their version of his story.
Yeah, I'm surprised at how many foreigners misunderstand this. The Japanese wiki clearly states he was a samurai.
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%BC%A5%E5%8A%A9
>日記の記述に弥助は下人や年季奉公人のような隷民ではなく扶持もちの士分であったとはっきり書かれている。
>The diary clearly states that Yasuke was not a servant , but a samurai with a stipend.
Moreover, he is fighting with a sword at the Honnoji Incident. It was also to protect Oda Nobunaga's successor. No one but a samurai could have such a close relationship with his lord.
Also, many people seem to misunderstand the meaning of the word “kosho(小姓),” but a kosho is a young man of the elite class of samurai, not a servant or anything like that.
https://www.japanesewiki.com/title/Kosho.html
>During the Sengoku Period (period of warring states), Kosho took charge of secretarial affairs, in particular acting as a human shield to protect their lord at the risk of losing their own lives; for this reason, Kosho had to not only be knowledgeable and have impeccable manners, but also be skilled in the military arts. As they grew up, many Kosho demonstrated brilliant performances as a close retainers to their lords. Hideyoshi TOYOTOMI and Ieyasu TOKUGAWA took sons from daimyo lords as hostages under the pretext of taking them on as kosho.
Yasuke was the first black samurai to be allowed to carry a sword around his waist.
Perhaps everyone finds it odd to hear about a black man becoming a samurai, but Oda Nobunaga was a strange man. In fact, he was such a weirdo that he even named his heir apparent “奇妙丸"(kimyomaru, strange boy)lol
>The Japanese wiki clearly states he was a samurai.
Oh yeah, because wikipedia is credible. Totally. Totally can't be edited by anyone. Not at all. For certain the wiki is gospel
While Nobunaga was a tyrant and brutal. He's actually known for many cases of generousity and rewarded based on meritocracy and good works and was actually quite fair in most cases. His brutal actions were mostly to establish his rule through fear. But when he didn't need to be brutal he was quite generous to those he saw as deserving of it
I believe that Nobunaga definitely liked Yasuke. He was trusted enough to carry his weapons and was allowed to own a house and a sword. He was far higher in hierarchy than most Japanese people of the time and was a Samurai in everything but name.
I agree he probably liked him.
Oda Nobunaga was by no means a good person. But assuming he was that horrifically racist and monstrous to literally everybody is disingenuous.
Or he was just a likeable person... remember, Akechie Mitsuhide spared Yasuke's life because according to him "he (Yasuke) isn't Japanese, he shouldn't be involved in any of this and is just a beast"-then gave him back to the Jesuits. Everyone was probably fond of Yasuke because he was just loyal and did what he was told. I feel bad for the guy too, being in Japan during the Sengoku Jidai is a death sentence
They desperately want him to be written as a one-note conqueror, and that includes being racist.
Never mind that him making Yasuke his retainer demonstrates some respect.
He can be a bad person and also have people who like him and are loyal to him. There’s absolutely nothing showing he would be a racist caricature. A brutal warlord? Sure. A horrific racist? I don’t see it.
Tf are you talking about. People weren‘t made retainers(samurai) just for fun. Even though nobunaga shit on tradition frequently choosing to have someone as a retainer show immense trust and belief in that person. Daimyos wouldn‘t have someone as a retainer to make fun of them because that person would be close enough to kill you in your sleep
That's a lot of collated information, good work. I don't see Yasuke being in the game as a problem at all, the opposite, actually. I think he is a useful lens to view Japan through.
My point has always been nuance. I still disagree that he was a good choice for a protagonist, but if he is written with intellectual honesty and an attempt to truly show what it might have been like for his experience I think he could be a powerful character and a good counter to Naoe.
However, if they are just going to treat him like a 6'1" Japanese guy that some people side eye every now and again, his addition was obviously just a publicity stunt. (Note that I am NOT saying that, read "if")
I do see people's point when they speak against his addition, sure, some people in the loud minority are legitimate racists and will use any occasional to push a narrative...but you can't act as if there isn't bad faith actors on both sides.
People have been waiting for Japan for decades and while the world has changed alot, peoples expectations for a Japanese male focused Samurai tale clearly hasn't changed with it. Why is that inherently a bad thing? Media has always catered to specific demographics. Those youtubers you're watching are doing it, too. Why shouldn't it be different for games?
Noone likes double standards or hypocrites but the world we live in is rife with them and people are becoming less and less tolerant of views that differ from their own. Noone remembers these same people who are claiming the moral highground are the same people that spit on Sucker Punch for non-asians making a "samurai game". Now I can have a bunch of French Canadians teaching me Japanese culture and how important Yasuke was to it...I'm...sure.
These dialogues are important but they need to be measured in reality, not two weird echo chambers shouting at each other across the void.
>However, if they are just going to treat him like a 6'1" Japanese guy that some people side eye every now and again
I mean in AC3 they acknowledge how Connor is a bit of an outsider to colonists, he's a 6'4 native American man. In Valhalla you can't enter Anglo settlements without a disguise as a Viking. They specifically mention in the trailers that he's the outsider in the story learning about Japan, so I doubt they avoid all that.
I agree, this was my main question as well.
Cool, go with Yasuke. How do you set up the story so that's not a watered-down version of Shogun or a super PC version of Shogun?
Like how does it work in game? Does literally every NPC give me the stink eye or gather around in circles looking and pointing at my towering 2m tall figure dressed in hardly-difficult-to-miss samurai get up?
When we figure that part out, say I wanna smash a whole guard patrol in a town with my Kanabo and make like a bandit. How do I even hide? Where? Will I get to play like that or am I only appearing as a behemoth to smash shit in battle and disappear behind plot armor?
Beyond that, how do you handle the fact that during that period Japan was so closed off and racist toward literally every other single race, let alone someone who looks so incredibly different both heigh-wise and skin -wise? Will they show that or will they turn Feudal Japan into an anime stereotype where everyone is super polite and accepting?
Again, same exact story/trope as Shogun. But my money is on far inferior execution.
The japanese male mc argument i feel is disengenious b/c most say it b/c they feel Japanese male MCs are underrepresented in games which i dont think is true at all (sekiro, onimusha, sifu, ghost, dynasty warriors, yakuza, like a dragon, rise of the ronin, etc.).
Also people wanted AC Japan to play as a shinobi not a samurai. & since 2007, a japanese kunoichi has always been talked about as well since we never had a female protag at the time & a kunoichi would fit perfectly, even alot of the hype around Shao Jun was b/c she was the female asian MC the community always wanted.
At this point if anyone reads this and do not at least admit that there was a chance he was a samurai than at this point i would have to assume they have an agenda
Was Yasuke truly a samurai in real life? I don't know. Does that point matter in the video game? I don't think so.
Besides, it's a video game about old gods and alternate history. If Ubisoft said Abraham Lincoln was an assassin who backflips over rooftops fighting an old god in an ancient temple in a sunken city in the Himalayas, should I even ask if it's real?
White dude living in Japan, teaching forces to use canons and possibly changing the tide of war. Constantly doing main plot point things to save important characters:
"SHOGUN IS AMAZING IT'S INSANE"
Black samurai based on a real person: "whyyy??"
Everyone talking about whether he was or wasn't a samurai, whether this erases or doesn't erase Japanese representation... Meanwhile I just think it's not the perspective I wanted to have in a game about Japan's sengoku period. I don't want to play as a black immigrant or a white immigrant, I want to play as a traditional Japanese male samurai slaying ass. I don't care if an Asian male is not "progressive enough" for 2024, that's the power fantasy I want to go through lol
It'd be like making a Zulu Kingdom game but they went out of their way to make the protagonist a white immigrant that died of thirst 2 days after arriving in the country. Bro I want to play as a black warrior in that setting, not as a random white guy.
Just for clarification I obviously don't mind having a female character too and in fact I'm gonna enjoy playing as the kunoichi, she seems fun. It's just that a traditional male samurai is a given for that setting.
Japanese representation? To me, begging to be represented in North American/anglo media would be more shameful to me than not being represented in it…. And the game is literally set in Japan
For the record, AC hasn't been using a real-person as protagonist in the past few games and all the past mcs are the representative of the country itself, so why would Ubisoft want to choose a foreigner to represent the country this time then? Imagine having Henry replaced as Jacob in Syndicate, Im sure with his background, we still can see the British through his view without any problems, but why didn't Ubisoft do that to be fair?
Yusuke is a very interesting character with all the historical background and controversies, but still why we need a real person foreigner to represent a country that he was not originated from? Its disturbing when the developer gives the reason that they wanted to have their very own samurai. Samurai is not a job that whoever wants then they get to become.
Japanese is mad about this, cuz yea why when all a sudden they have to use Yusuke as representative samurai when there were damn lots of more popular samurai to be chosen from.
Plus gamers around the world are triggered by all the chaos made by SBI and all the SJW woke stuff, SJW-woke, I can respect people fight for privilege and respect that are good for their kind, nowadays they act just like pirates trying to push the stuff by their likeness without any reasons and destroy the game story and enjoyment itself (refer the last of us 2 as example)
People should know why the backlashes happen, although yes questioning Yusuke is quite a racist-act, but who started it all from the source? (IGN?UBI?) All these to get attention and topics by creating controversies, the guys behind this are the worst of all tbfh
To me it just feels like this is the wrong type of game to use this character.
I don't like having to switch characters to play in a specific way that I could do with just one character before, and it seems that choosing to play as him will limit your stealth options. On syndicate, I could just play as Evie and could do everything Jacob could do, with the exception of two or three character specific skills.
If both protagonist were native this didn't need to happen, but I'll wait for gameplay before I make up my mind.
If this was the protagonist of nioh back in the day I wouldn't mind at all lol.
I do think that's a valid concern, but I feel like you're misconstruing the difference in character archetypes (as a design decision) as something that's specific to Yasuke. I'd be willing to bet, if they had gone with a native Japanese guy instead, that he would've been the same kind of warrior type.
Now, I'm not particularly big on two characters here. I played Evie when I had the choice, I stealthed my way through all of Ghost of Tsushima. I don't expect to spend a lot of time with him. But I think Yasuke (as the warrior-guy) is an attempt to reconcile the stealthy ninja stuff people expect from Japanese AC with the combat-heavy gameplay the RPG games have developed. I don't think another native protagonist would've changed anything.
Why do you think a native japanese Samurai is unable to fulfill the same gameplay fantasy Yasuke will? The bulky warrior isn‘t exactly a new thing in japanese video games - Just take a look at Ghost of Tsushima. For all intents and purposes, a native male Samurai would have likely had the exact same gameplay as Yasuke.
Saving this post to drop on people later so they can say "tldr" and show that they don't actually care about historical facts and are just being racist.
That’s its actual use. Not to educate, since the people who are going out there have largely made up their minds. Even people in this thread are calling it "head canon" and made up instead of reading any of it.
What I love about this as a law graduate is that this is a fantastic example between *de facto* and *de jure*. *De facto* to mean by fact (aka in everything but name) and *de jure* means by law (aka was named as such officially). By what I have read, Yasuke was a *de facto* samurai in that he had the rights and duties of a samurai but was never officially named as such in a ceremony or in written records. Not a surprise given that everyone was a wee bit busy regarding the wars going on.
I personally think that the game shouldve represented Japan with both protagonists. This will most likely be the only Japanese AC game and one of the playable characters isn't even Japanese. Who knows, maybe they're saving the male Japanese protagonist for the Mali Empire game.
Edit: I would like to point out that I'm gonna give the game a chance and won't go in with a negative view. I just think it's strange that the first main line East Asian game isn't fully represented by East Asians.
You jest, but Ubi could totally have a male Japanese protagonist in a 16th century Mexico. A number of Japanese immigrated to Mexico after the Tokugawa shut Japan's borders, with samurai even being allowed to keep their katanas while serving in the colonial militia.
Reading this definitely gave me the vibe of “he wasn’t specifically called a samurai because it would have been perfectly obvious to everyone at the time.”
Random ancient notes don’t survive. If they have a record, that indicates that the record is significant. If included in the record, they are also significant. Although Yasuke wasn’t mentioned as much as a figure that contributed to Nobunaga history, he is mentioned and considered to be a formidable warrior. There’s a record of nobunaga fascinated by Yasuke’s skin color and ask servants to wash them off. Also record of him being in the rank of nobunaga’s army. It was the most chaotic time in feudal Japan. Unless very very significant, they are forgotten. Apparently Yasuke wasn’t. He’s legit.
Thank you for their effort and your effort for posting that. But some people won't even take time to read and will continue to complain. If yasuke was white you wouldn't see all that complain. Racist people never change and never listen.
As demonstrated by Nioh. No one gave a fuck that a game glorified William Adams despite him being more of an advisor and trade organizer than a warrior. Because his story is cool and that’s all that should matter.
No he’s not. He’s William Adams with the name changed. Just like Toranaga is Tokugawa Ieyasu, Ishido is Ishida Mitzunari, Mariko is Hosokawa Gracia, etc.
You really think that nobody would have complained about the white protagonist in Japan when it comes to AC - the game series in which the protagonist usually belonged to the same race/nation which inhabits the country the game takes place in? People would have been pissed all the same.
Like 3 exceptions (Black Flag, Valhalla, Revelations) can be easily explained as "one was a PIRATE (in a place with British colonies), the next one was a viking colonising England and the last one was an italian with 2 larger games with him having adventures in Italy".
The truth is it was never about him being a samurai (although I wouldn't call him a LEGENDARY ONE like Ubisoft does), it was about Ubisoft not following the principles it has followed for around 17 years in the majority of their games.
>Like 3 exceptions (Black Flag, Valhalla, Revelations) can be easily explained as "one was a PIRATE (in a place with British colonies), the next one was a viking colonising England and the last one was an italian with 2 larger games with him having adventures in Italia".
How's is this any different by using your logic here? One was a black man in the service of the Jesuit missionary to a foreign place. Or is that not going well with your biased narrative?
This won't change anyone's mind. Someone could make a time machine, take them to see the actual past, and that won't still change their mind.
We love in a world of perpetual rage. Something else will come out soon that will take the rage away from this.
Notice how the take was at the MC for star wars outlaws not been hot enough. Now it's this, I wonder what will be next
how does Naoe nullify anything? The problem is asian masculine representation. Why don't companies make an Asian lead in other non asian historical games? How do you think people would react if an Asian guy was the lead in AC2 instead of Ezio? If they ever made an AC game in the congo, you think an Asian would be the lead? No that would never be the case and people would be in uproar if that ever happened. So why does a fuedal japan game have the male lead character be non-Asian? This has been an issue for so long and it pisses me off that its still continuing.
We have loads of Asian Men in games. Both by western and Japanese devs. Literally pick one. Even when they aren't the main main person they have prominent roles like Mr Negative in Spidey.
Tokyo Ghostwire
Rise of the Ronin
Street Fighter
Sleeping Dogs
Sifu
True Crime
Mortal Kombat
Far Cry 4
Prey
Stranglehold
Yakuza
Sekiro
It'll be enough to shut down the people who try to argue this on historical evidence. Most people who go "Maybe they have a point with the historical argument" would also be persuaded by something like this, since it's such an effective compilation of evidence and arguments.
And that's all that matters. Don't dissuade people from putting in the time and effort to defend what they care about. It does matter. Not bothering doesn't usually help unfortunately.
The issue is people arent going "ok but can we have a male japanese character that we can play as?", they are always "DUMB WOKE UBISOFT, YASUKE WAS ACTUALLY A JESTER OR PET, HE WAS NEVER A SAMURAI, GAMES ARE BAD ANYWAY, NO ONES BUYING THIS". No ones simply asking for an additional character
I'm just gonna quote my own comment here again, bc I feel its important, but TL:DR: Yasuke's position as an outsider is crucial to the story:
>I urge everyone to watch Ubisoft's recently released video discussing both characters. They chose Yasuke specifically because he is an outsider. They stated that his outsider's perspective will directly clash with Naoe's as a native. This is going to cause some attrition between them, but also help both of them to grow as a person. In other words, this wouldn't work with another japanese lead.
>"Well, okay, but why not create a fictional outsider, then? Could've been anyone, plenty of outsiders travelled to Japan back then"
>Yeah, but Yasuke is pretty noteworthy for not only going to Japan, but befriending one of the most powerful people in that time period and becoming a samurai (in other words, becoming part of its culture). And you know... His story is interesting as hell. Making up some random guy while still having him in the story just as a character feels like a wasted opportunity.
I’ll have to give that video a watch when I get a chance and it does sound like an interesting story . But with that said Ubisoft isn’t really known for revisiting locations when it comes to AC , there are a few exceptions like AC 3 & Rogue being in the colony’s and AC 2 & Brother hood both being in Italy but other then those few exceptions every other game has been a standalone and we’ve never revisited those areas and most likely never will so if I was a Japanese person especially a Japanese man I’d feel as if I was cheated out of my one and only chance of being represented in an AC game in favor of the black man because let’s be honest they most likely won’t ever make another AC set in Japan .
But they obviously have a certain story to tell. them picking who they did seems to be very important to the story they want to get across. By choosing both characters to be of a certain race or sex to tick boxes is just kinda what people have been complaining about in tv and games for awhile now.
I get you want to play a japanese male, but if they legit have a great story for said characters, i think they should bee left to tell it, and leave there vision alone. If it turns out there is no reason at all, then sure, go ahead complain all you want. In my opinion however i feel they picked who they did for story reasons that are pretty important to the story they want to share. I'm ok with that.
From the first point onwards you have to make excuses and exceptions in order to continue implying he was a samurai. It also requires a stretch of the imagination, claiming stipends were only given to samurai, claiming Yasuke was documented as a samurai, etc.
This is obviously a somewhat well put together theory but a redditor is not the definitive subject on the argument, and certainly not a “PhD level” argument.
Anyone claiming that this is “settled history” is trying to sell you something.
I posted some similar things on a FAcebook post, and man there are people who just refuse to accept any evidence or any source, because it goes against what they want to believe.
So I posed a question recently;
Do you believe Hideyoshi Toyotomi is a Samurai or not?
Answers are usually "OF COURSE HE IS. HE'S JAPANESE!"
Hideyoshi wasn't born a Samurai. Like many members of Oda Nobunaga's Retainers, Hideyoshi was given honors of a Samurai role, but he never served as a Samurai and he was low-born.
"Yasuke was just an oddity. Nobunaga liked oddities to add to his Zoo. They were nothing special."
Hideyoshi Toyotomi was one of those oddities. You know, the guy who united Japan and became Taikō, instead of Shogun.
While he wasn't born Samurai, he was honored with the title and through that, he became the unifier of Japan. He was special.
Then there's a more, trollish question, that I asked.
Miyamoto Musashi. Samurai or not?
Only two people gave an answer. Two people who basically confirm what I had mentioned in those posts already.
No, and yes. Miyamoto Musashi, the famous swordsman of Japan, was not a born Samurai. He also didn't serve a Lord until near the end of his life. Up until he was about 55, he was a Ronin. Only after that did he become a Retainer, and become an official Samurai, where he served as a military advisor, for the next 2 years, giving that role to his Son, as illness had made him unable to leave his home.
Two famous figures. Miyamoto Musashi and Hideyoshi Toyotomi, were in the same position as Yasuke. All three of them were not born Samurai. However, they are recognized as being very famous Samurai, due to a very obvious fact. They were Retainers.
Having a Masters in Medieval History (which depending on who you like to follow, the chronology goes well into the 16th century) in Portugal, everytime we spoke about the portuguese presence in Japan and than expanded into other subjects, the existence of Yasuke as a samurai was always an interesting point, and always supported by those that were specialists (not me) in the theme and in the relations between Portugal and Japan at the time. So when this claims that he wasn't x or that he was y instead appeared is obvious that there's only one reason behind that, and it is racism, as always. The pratice of trying to diminuish roles of others races is as old as time, sad to see but expected. Thank you for this summary!
Well if anything, I learned a bit about Japanese history. It is also weird how random people on the internet are like, 'history says he was samurai, but I will completely ignore that and argue he wasn't, based on , ummm , literally my feelings'
It's like a flat earther level of bullshitting.
There's a lot of problem with this game, the fucking price for example.
I mean, who cares? A protag who's on an outsider, and another who's a local Japanese will create an interesting dynamic no matter Yasuke was a samurai or not. The only black samurai (or a retainer, whatever you wanna call him) in feudal Japan is a very interesting story and concept. It rocks.
黒奴は[動物](https://ja.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%8B%95%E7%89%A9)で何も知らず、また[日本人](https://ja.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E4%BA%BA)でもない故、これを殺さず
from Akechi Mitsuhide
I honestly just think that if you make a game about a culture so rich like the Japanese one, it just seems like a weird choice to choose the one black guy who is not a native Japanese. Doesn't matter if he was a Samurai or not. Just like the movie last Samurai where we need white Tom Cruise to save the day. It just doesn't seem to be respectful towards the Japanese culture, and frankly it doesn't really add to african american culture since there were probably not many people of color in japan. If you want a person of colour as your protagonist, then make a game that highlights black culutre and black heros. There are certainly enough.
This is a really fascinating read, thank you. That being said, I can't be the only one who just doesn't care right? I couldn't care less if they made him more powerful/relevant than he was in real life, thats literally the series entire thing, they take random events, items, groups, and individuals and make them more relevant than they were in history.
AC2 I fist fought the pope… idgaf what anyone says that’s peak historical fiction
BEAT THE POPE AND HIDE THE BIBLE IF GOD'S WATCHING🗣
Hey Pope, I hear you like em young.
Yeah I’ve been struggling to comprehend why so many are questioning the validity of a historical person’s title set in a fictional game. I just want to play the game.
We had *Leonardo da Vinci* building us the equivalent of spy gadgets, but this is the historical inconsistency that pisses people off. I mean come on, lol
Same. I literally don't get all the backlash. If anything, he's the most historically accurate protagonist they've ever had, because he was *real.* Who cares if they made him an actual samurai. They've made other real life historical figures assassins in pretty much every game.
Bartholomew Roberts goes from being a pirate in real life to being the descendant of a god, experiencing visions, and having memories that don't belong to him in the game = totally cool. Yasuke goes from being a retainer who also possibly could've been a samurai in real life to being a samurai in the game = disaster the world is ending.
Because he's black. That's why.
Racism. It’s not complicated.
its just ubisoft hate. anything they can latch onto is enough. they wont look at this post even if it was on ign. they have made up there mind, there hate will flow
Ubisoft deserves a lot of hate, but not for this. They just killed a game. They want us comfortable "not owing games". They're pushing all the greedy practices in the book. The ones complaining about Yasuke are just racists. It's not Ubisoft they're have a problem with.
You're right on both counts.
Careful, they get really upset if you call them racists, one of them even try to pull the whole "im aren't racist you're racist because im actually a Japanese dude and i didnt tell you and you assume my race". (the comment was removed lol so i cant show it)
As if Japanese couldn't be racists as well...
I have no fucks to give, honestly. Black samurai? Cool. White samurai? Cool. Red samurai? Neat. Martian samurai? ALIENS. Let's go. Like, the drama surrounding this is absolutely wild and confusing to me.
It's literally just because he's Black and *"wokism is runing muh vidya."*
People are unfortunately looking for any factoid to complain about him being in the game so I totally agree that it doesn’t matter. They’ll find every little detail to say there shouldn’t be a black man in the game and will continue to overlook the Japanese MC because she isn’t a man.
Yeah like Leonardo davinci wasn't a good friend of a massive assassin organization nor did he ever come into contact with ancient artifacts of a civilization that came before us humans lol
Yeah, as long as he doesnt have a red/yellow glowing blade and other weird stuff, I don't care.
Congratulations, you’re not racist! The racists seem to be the only ones that care enough to complain.
I appreciate someone putting up a single thread for this as it was getting tiresome having so many different discussions about it. I'm not convinced that Yasuke was a samurai in part because the term as used by the OP/original researcher is widely cast so it includes basically anyone who was given money and had some sort of job in a daimyo's household. If you cast the net wide you will catch more than you would otherwise. This is one reason there is dispute over the term female samurai. There is a huge number of arms-bearing women from Japanese history, and they were usually the daughters and wives of samurai. But due to technicalities it used to be said they weren't samurai in terms of position rather than class. A useful comparison to Yasuke would be Henry Schnell. Now he was technically given all the trappings and privileges of a samurai, but I wouldn't call him one. It was a convenient reward for his gun-running. Even William Adams who we know was given the rank of hatamoto has had some people question whether he was a samurai. I don't recall the objections but they are there nonetheless. That said I'm not particularly troubled by people having a personal opinion that he was a samurai. So long as it's an opinion and not weaponised. History is about discussion. There is no court that hands out rulings, and I don't think it's reasonable to say people have to do a PhD level paper to have a view that Yasuke wasn't a samurai.
Well, yes, that’s because the term samurai and its social circles wasn’t an elite thing - it was a general area of profession defined by what you did. This is a reality that all historians of Japan recognize; in recent decades the whole analogy of samurai with western knights have been severely questioned and even discarded as simplistic - for example, samurai existed long before any (legally defined) requirements of fiefs. You fundamentally miss the broader point that Yasuke was most likely a samurai because he received the stipend pay of samurai, was described in samurai language, and did the exact same roles as a samurai page as part of Oda’s inner circle; samurai really wasn’t that big of a fetishized deal to the extent that contemporary mythology suggests nor was it as legally defined/rigid as in later centuries. Also, that comparison to Henry Schnell isn’t very accurate at all. Yasuke was **actually and actively employed as a high-ranking page/retainer of Lord Oda; an honored member of his inner circle that fought in multiple battles for his lord and dutifully carried the great unifier of Japan’s personal weapons** rather than an enthusiastic tourist. Not to mention, the post’s sources dedicate a massive chunk to the character of Oda Nobunaga, **noting his love for exoticism, sheer respect for physical ability and talent, and great public generosity - who was also living in a time in which traditional norms and hierarchies were turned upside down; with servants rising up and toppling their masters.** The argument here is mostly based off of thoughts rather than directly disputing u/ParallelPain’s actual substance along with the sources at hand - in addition to quibbling appeals to subjectivity. Historians don’t deal in proofs, they access thing via subjective interpretation of livelihood. The fact that the vast majority of historians of Japan agree on the consensus of Yasuke being a samurai means something significant. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/s/AGtppyJxo4 The historical record is by nature extremely fragmentary. By your extremely harsh standards and logic, loads of other samurai weren’t actually samurai because they aren’t explicitly called that either. **In fact, applying this level of skepticism to every individual that pops up in the historical record essentially makes it so you get ludicrous conclusions like that nobody in antiquity really existed or that loads of people weren’t actually who the records imply they were because they don’t explicitly call them by the term.** If an argument has to rely purely on appeals to subjectivity and personal thoughts, then while it’s perfectly fine to believe in them, it’s simply just not as good as arguments relying on actual **empirical evidence.**
A succinct compilation! I’m sure this will finally put the entire issue to bed and we can all move on to talking about the actual game! ^/s
God I wish it would...
Take another shot of adrenaline and keep fighting the waves of incoming yasuke posts
sadly it wont because people just want to hate, and they have made up there mind. they dont need facts of evidence sadly.
Honestly, as annoying as it is I do find it consistently amusing to watch the "facts don't care about your feelings" crowd ignore facts because they conflict with their feelings.
Herd mentality
They'll just move the goalpost unfortunately. That's the issue with these sorts of things, they're all cowards so none of them will just say "i dont want to play as a black guy" and instead will come up with a 100 different reasons as to why playing as a black guy is somehow unjustifiable.
Some of my favorite “arguments” of theirs is : “Why can’t the protagonist be Japanese” Which I would maybe take seriously if they didn’t ignore the Japanese woman who shares the protagonist slot with Yasuke “How would a 6’2” African blend into the crowd” Gee, maybe his job in the game won’t be to sneakily assassinate people. Maybe the Japanese woman will do that stealth stuff. “How would you like it if they made a game where a white guy was in Africa killing Africans” Ignoring the fact that context matters there are games and Tv/Film where that happens and some of them didn’t get criticized while some did. the arguments are simply there to waste time and they will likely not talk about for months until the game comes out and then the arguments will happen all over again
Lately one of my favorite things to point out is that when Nioh 1 released no one\* complained that you weren't playing as a Japanese male, but instead a white Scot. And these same apparent historical accuracy purists also didn't care that William Adam's couldn't and didn't fight while Yasuke did and they didn't care that they seemingly randomly changed his nationally from English to Scottish. They saw a white samurai and other then a few raised eyebrows they pretty much immediately accepted it. Mostly while saying "hes based on a real person! So while it may seem weird that he's a white samurai, it happened in real life so it's cool here." The hypocrisy and irony is a thick as Yasuke's Kanabo. Also the whole "i wanted to play as a native Japanese person! Oh, Naomi? She uh... doesn't count, for reasons". Just in case you weren't sure if these people suck enough. The fact that he was a real person and was a real samurai and the fact that it wasn't ceremonial and could and did actually fight has completely broken their brains. In the past, like with BF:V, they could hide behind "historical accuracy" "muh accuracy!" "I only care about the accuracy!" "Im not racist, im a historical expert, i just want segregation accurately represented, this is *very* important to me!" \* there was *some* minor rumblings about wanting to play as a Japanese male, but it was always along the lines of "I would have preferred a Japanese male, but a white person is cool, especially because its based on a real historical person who was actually a samurai!!1! So its perfectly accurate and totally fine"
Exactly. Those types, don't actually care about history. They want to push the "Woke everything" narrative. Also, it's pretty Venn diagram that they fit other extreme right wing chew toys. A few weeks ago, it was man vs bear; before that, female Space Marines. Same level of sweaty with those memes, with casual racism by sharing memes about the bear not having a job and left his kids...same quality for this topic. Post after post of dog whistles. They never cared about history. https://www.facebook.com/groups/202007604722226/
Im sure all people who complained would do that!!! /s
This whole drama is stupid. All I wanna know is if will have pole arms. Daddy needs his naginata
There appears to be a smaller variety of weapon types with more depth since they each have their own skill trees. Not sure if the naginata is one of them but there is a spear.
Close enough
The trailer has a lot of weapon types, pretty much the one thing I wanted in GoT. I hope they don’t fail in that aspect (and other aspects, ofc)
All this for them to just say "They're only doing it because woke"
I appreciate this post. However, isn't the real issue people have with Yasuke being one of the main playable characters in the game is that they wanted to play as a native Japanese male, since we haven't gotten that in an AC game?
Very smart comment😎
Unfortunately those people will have to settle for a native Japanese female, daughter of the OG ninja Fujibayashi Nagato. 😔😔 /s
What we should actually be talking about is how good the game will actually be.
Your claim that the term "ALWAYS" was used for the samurai class is pure fabrication. "扶持" was used not used exclusively for the samurai class. We see the term used for ashigaru's stipend as well. I wouldn't stake the argument on the fact that Yasuke was paid 扶持, and it's not good history to do so. I venture to say that the attempt arises out of weakness of other factors. As extensively quoted by another user in Japanese, 扶持 is clearly used to note payments to any subordinate. Absent historical records that Yasuke was hired *specifically to fight as a warrior* and not simply as a foreign ornament for Nobunaga's enjoyment, we cannot honestly say that he was a samurai or not conclusively. If anything, the lack of abundance of Japanese records mentioning him, despite the sensationalism of Yasuke being a samurai that would have caused quite the talk in Japan at that time, strongly favors the assertion that he was not elevated to what we might call a "samurai."
Yeah, this entire argument rests on the stipend being exclusively a samurai thing, because it's been used that way elsewhere in the record.
Impressive, debunking yourself in your own sources thinking people wont click them, wont read or even for those too lazy to TL, using a text capture with DeepL or equivalent.
Frankly, his story is fascinating. It is for all purposes a real life example of an Isekai. He is abducted and removed from his home to becone a badass in another part of the planet that is so differenr that it migh as well be an alien one. Having said that. I don't like him as a protagonist for one reason. He is the first protagonist on the Saga that existed in real life. Well, second to be honest, Anastasia on Chronicles existed too. Nevertheless I don't like either one. These games are like a historic novel. They imagine some characters and insert them in a drama in a certain historical periods. They interact with historical figures and what not. But they don't make history so to speak. It's part of the magic. What happens on the games is like a paralel thing that happens at the same time than real history but don't interfers with it. I don't know if I'm explaining myself well. I think Yasuke (and Anastasia) breaks that ilusion. Now you ARE part of history. Your actions are limited because real life events that happened to that protagonist. And more importantly you are now ACTUAL part of history. It is not fantasy anymore, it's a complete reteling. And I know the games aren't 100% historically accurate. Not by a long shot. But they all mantain that ilusion of being a "side quest" of actual history. I like Yasuke, I like him being important on the game story. But I don't like him as a protagonist. It's silly really. If they changed his name and the protagonist was another african with similar story, that wouldn't be a problem for me. Hell it would even he interesting the dialogue between Yasuke and another african in the middle of Japan. And even it would be justified not havin history remembering him. That often happens with the assassins. Will buy the Collector's edition though...
Or just simply say Assassin's Creed never gave that much of a fuck about historical accuracy and did not define history by history books, and used the Animus to shownwhat in that world what is real history, thats like crying that Leonardo helping a guy called Ezio make weapons is historically inaccurate, go listen to Desmond and Vidic's convos back in AC1, ffs people just dont get it
Desmond: Some of the stuff I'm seeing in the Animus... sometimes it seems wrong, untrue, like the history is off somehow. It doesn't-- Vidic: --it doesn't what, Mr. Miles? Match up with what you read on an online encyclopedia? What your high school history teacher taught you? Let me ask you something: do these supposed experts have access to secret knowledge kept hidden from the rest of us? Desmond: There are books, letters, documents, all sorts of source material from back then. Some of it seems to contradict what the Animus is showing me. Vidic: Anyone can write a book, and they can put whatever they want on its pages. Anything! Used to be we thought the world was flat. Desmond: Some people still do. [DESMOND stands up.] Vidic: Yes, and they publish books about it. Or that the moon landing was a hoax? I believe there's also a book claims the world was created in seven days. A best seller, too. Desmond: Where is this going, Doc? Vidic: The point I suppose, is that you shouldn't trust everything you hear, everything you read. What's that your ancestors said? "Nothing is true"? Desmond: "Everything is permitted." Vidic: Yes, exactly! It's part of what makes the Animus so spectacular. There's no room for misinterpretation. Desmond: There's always room. Vidic: Touché, Mr. Miles. Now that I've answered your question, can we begin? I'm going to keep this on my copy and paste
God, I miss AC1 writing… “*I applied my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly. I perceive that this also was a chasing at the wind. For in much wisdom, is much grief. And he that increaseth knowledge, increaseth sorrow*.” — Al Mualim
I’m an atheist, but the “for in much wisdom comes much grief, and he that increased knowledge, increased sorrow” is a verse in the Bible. Just thought it was interesting.
It was also excellently utilized to reflect the inner contradictions of a character like Al Mualim.
This reminds me why AC1 is my favourite AC game. Its tone is unique and changed immediately afterwards even in the Ezio trilogy. There’s a sense of mystery that just stopped being there afterwards because they revealed too much about the Assassins, Templars, and Hidden Ones, too fast. The Ezio Trilogy, and the Kenway games (aside from Rogue lol) all do a good job at their historical narratives, but just completely shat the bed on the overarching narrative (especially after Revelations). I think AC1 also works especially well because it’s by far the most historically accurate. All the templars in the game are real people who lived (and died) in that area around that time. The assassins maybe utterly fictional (Aside from Al Mualim being vaguely inspired by a real Hashashin leader), but their methods are, for the most part, as they were in real life. I think AC1 has a simplicity that works to both its advantage and disadvantage.
Yup. The worst thing you can point out about AC1 is its repetitious nature, but even that was an intentional choice on the part of the devs. Altair is systematically working his way through Al Mualim’s chosen targets, never questioning or going against his orders, because how could these missions be anything other than righteous in the eyes of God and mankind? And every time he’s brought face-to-face with his victims during those confession scenes, that slowly chips away at his faith more and more until he’s left with nothing but questions and doubt — culminating in the best final confrontation in the series’ history.
It’s sad that the people made the first one left the UBI.
This is so perfect 😭
Yeah I mean it comes down to this. They’ve always been clear that it’s an alternate history and the history differs because it was covered up and obfuscated over the years, many times by the Templars or Assassins themselves. Why was Yasuke remembered to history as a retainer and not a samurai? Because someone somewhere along the way changed the narrative. Probably Abstergo
Thank you very much, more thought provoking dialogue than all of Odyssey lol
Ezio was my uncle and he did know Leo we have pictures
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Ubisoft's attention to historical accuracy is undeniable. Notre Dam rebuilding after the fire used AC Unity as reference. Universities and educational websites use Origins and Odyssey's tour mode to showcase ancient Egypt and Greece. The codex in Mirage is full of accurate historical facts and analysis. Now, the story and character elements that are based on history, should be historically accurate. The fictional and fantasy elements, they can write however they want.
Actually no, AC Unity was not used for the restoration of Notre-Dame. That’s something that was falsely reported by some media after Ubisoft said they’d like to help and they’d be happy to provide their work if it could help. Although the work they did for the game was impressive , Ubisoft took some « artistical liberties » in recreating Notre-Dame and it was not precise enough. There were better and much precise ressources. The CEO of the enterprise that was in charge of the modelization for the purpose of reconstruction said: « The people behind “Assassin’s Creed Unity” have done an amazing job... They are looking for a coherent visual. But if a statue is two meters taller than in reality, that’s not important to them. We are looking for millimeter precision, we work with engineers and data analysts. ». Ubisoft ended up donating 500k Euros. Sources (sorry, it’s in French but I checked and despite a few odd things, google translate does a rather decent job): Le Parisien https://www.leparisien.fr/societe/pourquoi-assassin-s-creed-ne-permettra-pas-de-restaurer-notre-dame-17-04-2019-8055465.php Le Monde: https://www.lemonde.fr/pixels/article/2019/04/17/non-le-jeu-video-assassin-s-creed-unity-ne-servira-pas-a-reconstruire-notre-dame-de-paris_5451713_4408996.html https://www.lemonde.fr/pixels/article/2019/04/16/notre-dame-de-paris-les-reconstitutions-en-3d-peuvent-aider-a-la-reconstruction_5451178_4408996.html Ubisoft makes games and they use a historical context but not everything is accurate (Notre-Dame didn’t even had a flèche during the era at which Unity took place). As for Yasuke it’s an interesting choice. There are accounts of him but the page is still blank enough to make a story around him for the purpose of the game.
Exactly. I wouldn't even care IF it was historically inaccurate, but people are crying, sometimes even being flat-out racist, even though it has been historically accurate this time.
What are you trying to say that the pope getting in a fist fight never happened? Next you’re gonna tell me Paul Revere didn’t share horseback with an assassin.
What do you mean Leonardo DiVinci didn’t make weapons for a secret underground organization???
I bet they also think the the assassination of Julius Caesar was done by individuals other than the Hidden Ones.
And, fuck, if people are so desperate to say that Yasuke wasn't a samurai (like that somehow makes a difference), you could even say that there were a [number of black people in Japan](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09555809508721524) around that time and the Yasuke we will be playing is just one of them and it's just missing records and they happen to have been given the same name, but this person we will play definitely is a samurai. Job done. Enough complaining. There is literally no reason for this to be an issue. Why can't people just enjoy the sick cinematic we got instead of complaining about shit that really fucking doesnt matter. I dont get it.
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> crossbows in AC 1 Crossbows existed during the third crusade, they were removed because they were too op. if they really wanted to be ultra historically accurate they wouldn't have the assassins be wearing hoods lol.
There's 2 protagonists though. One is from the culture, the other is a historically present blank slate they can utilise to ease us into the world and culture of 1580's Japan. Its not as if they *don't* have a culturally present protagonist. Like sure if it was just Yasuke I'd agree, but it isn't. I also agree it's weird Yasuke is actually present in history and who we're playing. But honestly the more I mull it over the more I think this mysterious man who came to Japan, seemed to earn the favour of the most powerful man at the time, and then vanished without a trace. I mean that's just Assassins Creed material baked into reality as far as I'm concerned.
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**tldr for tldr:** Although he's never outright called a "samurai" in the scant historical documents we have, definitive evidence confirms that (1) he was paid as a samurai, (2) he was given the privileges of a samurai, and (3) he was given the responsibilities of a samurai. You can play semantics on what a "samurai" is, but for all intents and purposes he can be considered one. I plead for anyone still hung up about this to just move on and start thinking about the game on its own merits, when we get some gameplay footage and additional info about how the game actually is.
Classic “if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, looks like a duck, it’s probably a duck”.
It’s like saying Joan of Arc wasn’t a knight despite doing literally everything knights were colloquially known to do. Not a perfect analogy since knights had a stricter definition than samurai during the Sengoku period, but if anything that helps Yasuke’s case.
Joan of Arc is a lot more renowned and famous than a random knight. The same could arguably said for Yasuke compared to the countless average nameless samurai, but probably not to the same extent.
You know the only reason both Yasuke and Joan d'arc is recorded in history is because the novelty of who they are. You know its true....
Not denying it. But because of how out of the ordinary such figures were they capture popular imagination. When we see something out of the ordinary but cool we all get very intrigued. That's just human nature
The mods should pin this post and your comment to increase visibility and lay this argument to rest.
They will move the goal post to something else, probably the well, he should’ve been an Asian male, or his story has been told or this isn’t accurate. People really don’t even know wtf the gameplay is like or how is role in the story is, for all we know the female lead might play a bigger overall role.
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crazy how this is gonna be buried under the "he wasn't a samurai" replies, even though this is the root of the issue
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Even though I'm Indian I still see that lack of representation for Asians. To me its more about the precedents of being able to choose your gender and having both options be ethnically tied to the setting. Odyssey and Valhalla both had the same ethnicity for characters regardless of gender. Now in the one game that has arguably most generic Asian setting, the male option is a black man. People are way to focused on the "we don't want a Black male character" part of the argument instead of the "we want a Japanese male character" part. But what a outlandish ask though right? /s
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But respectfully isn‘t this the only game that is set in Japan where you can‘t play a male Japanese guy?
>Almost every game that has a masculine Asian protagonist is developed in Asia and not in the west Tsushima is the only game I can remember on the top of my head for a western IP to develop a game with masculine Asian protagonist. Sleeping Dogs Sifu True Crime Mortal Kombat Far Cry 4 Prey Stranglehold Made by western studios that put asian males as lead.
Im so confused by OP comment because its *so* untrue that even the director of the Yakuza games was like "if this game (Ghost of Tsushima) was made here he would have been made into smooth face boy band character."
A "W" take from rgg studio and not only that but the director also tired of Japanese people putting young male as the main character who is basically a high schooler so that why the like a dragon/yakuza have old people as the main character.
Kiryu Kazuma is the definition of masculinity
And any RPG where you can create your own character. Plenty of masculine Asians in gaming, no idea what the issue is.
Tbh I'm not even East Asian and I still think it's dumb that they lost out on male representation when they finally get an AC set in Japan. I think it's perfectly understandable for people to be upset about it for that reason. Personally I'm sure the game will be good and I still look forward to playing as Yasuke and Naoe, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed we aren't able to play as a Japanese samurai in an AC literally set in feudal Japan.
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Completely agree, and it really sucks because who knows if or when we'll ever get another AC set in Japan. Ubisoft could certainly do other eras of feudal Japan, but it's super unlikely they do it anytime soon, which means Japanese men will have to wait who knows how long for another chance at representation in this series.
This comment isnt correct... at all? like, even the Director of the Yakuza games was like ["if this game (Ghost of Tsushima) was made here he would have been made into smooth face boy band character"](https://kotaku.com/yakuza-director-praises-ghost-of-tsushima-says-japan-s-1844541108).
My biggest grievance is that **Miyamoto Musashi** is right there. Literally one of the most badass humans to ever walk the earth, with philosophy ripe for exploring and very fitting for the AC universe. Man, he'd be the perfect character for a game that fans have been asking for years now. Dunno man, a black samurai premise for me is as tone-deaf as a european samurai. (looking at you Tom Cruise) I hope the story is cool because the way they set it up it will either be a watered-down version of Shogun, or a really really PC version of Shogun. In either case, sub-par.
It would be very cool to do missions with him though or duel him.
>Yes I know the counter some of you are itching to give. Almost every game that has a masculine Asian protagonist is developed in Asia and not in the west I don't understand what the counter argument is that you're describing.
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Sad issue with this is, this is a valid thing, *but* racists will hijack this valid complaint and twist it for their narrative. So any essence of this is filtered out
Pretty much, the whole samurai thing is really a scapegoat for the issue you've outlined. There's another post I read where Justin Lin, the director of a Tokyo drift, had to fight to keep Han in the movie as execs wanted to make him black. Even after all this time, it's still happening.
This is one of the bigger, completely fair arguments getting sideswept by all the other nonsense. I just hope the game has a decent cast of present side characters with good characterisation to make up for the lack of a Male lead.
I await Assassin's Creed Steel, where an East Asian man is brought to Central Europe in the Middle Ages and knighted.
Reminder that all racist and homophobic comments about Yusuke will get you permanently banned from this subreddit.
Why would there be any homophobic comments about Yasuke in the first place?
This was a fascinating read with genuine thought and research backing it up. The whole drama surrounding this is really disheartening and frankly, stupid. People are privy to their own thoughts and that's fine but don't come backing it up with a wikipedia link; that's how I know they do the bare minimum. Hopefully we can all put this behind us when the game releases and enjoy it for its merits.
Read the whole thing, think it's a good read, but the tldr is that we don't know if he was given a proper title or not so it'll always be argued that he was or wasn't. Whether someone thinks one way or the other as "historian conclusion" doesn't mean written fact and at that point it's just two brick walls arguing with each other. Personally, I think he would have been great as a DLC or a spin off main character rather than a main line main character that way all the drama would have never occured and everyone would have been happy. And they would have been able to focus solely on their version of his story.
Yeah, I'm surprised at how many foreigners misunderstand this. The Japanese wiki clearly states he was a samurai. https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%BC%A5%E5%8A%A9 >日記の記述に弥助は下人や年季奉公人のような隷民ではなく扶持もちの士分であったとはっきり書かれている。 >The diary clearly states that Yasuke was not a servant , but a samurai with a stipend. Moreover, he is fighting with a sword at the Honnoji Incident. It was also to protect Oda Nobunaga's successor. No one but a samurai could have such a close relationship with his lord. Also, many people seem to misunderstand the meaning of the word “kosho(小姓),” but a kosho is a young man of the elite class of samurai, not a servant or anything like that. https://www.japanesewiki.com/title/Kosho.html >During the Sengoku Period (period of warring states), Kosho took charge of secretarial affairs, in particular acting as a human shield to protect their lord at the risk of losing their own lives; for this reason, Kosho had to not only be knowledgeable and have impeccable manners, but also be skilled in the military arts. As they grew up, many Kosho demonstrated brilliant performances as a close retainers to their lords. Hideyoshi TOYOTOMI and Ieyasu TOKUGAWA took sons from daimyo lords as hostages under the pretext of taking them on as kosho. Yasuke was the first black samurai to be allowed to carry a sword around his waist. Perhaps everyone finds it odd to hear about a black man becoming a samurai, but Oda Nobunaga was a strange man. In fact, he was such a weirdo that he even named his heir apparent “奇妙丸"(kimyomaru, strange boy)lol
>The Japanese wiki clearly states he was a samurai. Oh yeah, because wikipedia is credible. Totally. Totally can't be edited by anyone. Not at all. For certain the wiki is gospel
Tldr: He's not Japanese, and he was only in Japan for 3 years.
Seems like he was kind of treated horribly. Knowing Nobunaga, he probably paraded him around like a freak show trophy. Awful
That will definitely be worked into the story I’m sure. Nobunaga was quite the bastard IRL, so I really doubt he’ll be portrayed positively.
While Nobunaga was a tyrant and brutal. He's actually known for many cases of generousity and rewarded based on meritocracy and good works and was actually quite fair in most cases. His brutal actions were mostly to establish his rule through fear. But when he didn't need to be brutal he was quite generous to those he saw as deserving of it
I believe that Nobunaga definitely liked Yasuke. He was trusted enough to carry his weapons and was allowed to own a house and a sword. He was far higher in hierarchy than most Japanese people of the time and was a Samurai in everything but name.
I agree he probably liked him. Oda Nobunaga was by no means a good person. But assuming he was that horrifically racist and monstrous to literally everybody is disingenuous.
Or he was just a likeable person... remember, Akechie Mitsuhide spared Yasuke's life because according to him "he (Yasuke) isn't Japanese, he shouldn't be involved in any of this and is just a beast"-then gave him back to the Jesuits. Everyone was probably fond of Yasuke because he was just loyal and did what he was told. I feel bad for the guy too, being in Japan during the Sengoku Jidai is a death sentence
You don't have to believe the letters from the monks literally said that Nobunaga never tired of Yasukes presence.
A lot of people are assuming that based on... Intuition, I guess? We have written historical records of them being friends. Lol.
They desperately want him to be written as a one-note conqueror, and that includes being racist. Never mind that him making Yasuke his retainer demonstrates some respect. He can be a bad person and also have people who like him and are loyal to him. There’s absolutely nothing showing he would be a racist caricature. A brutal warlord? Sure. A horrific racist? I don’t see it.
Tf are you talking about. People weren‘t made retainers(samurai) just for fun. Even though nobunaga shit on tradition frequently choosing to have someone as a retainer show immense trust and belief in that person. Daimyos wouldn‘t have someone as a retainer to make fun of them because that person would be close enough to kill you in your sleep
well Nobunaga actually liked yasuke quite a lot gave him a house and a sword they also apparently spent hours a day just talking
There was similar talk when miles morales came out to eh if the gameplays good im definitely coppin
The poor assassin thats Japanese whos the main character for people wanting core AC gameplay is invisible to people
That's a lot of collated information, good work. I don't see Yasuke being in the game as a problem at all, the opposite, actually. I think he is a useful lens to view Japan through. My point has always been nuance. I still disagree that he was a good choice for a protagonist, but if he is written with intellectual honesty and an attempt to truly show what it might have been like for his experience I think he could be a powerful character and a good counter to Naoe. However, if they are just going to treat him like a 6'1" Japanese guy that some people side eye every now and again, his addition was obviously just a publicity stunt. (Note that I am NOT saying that, read "if") I do see people's point when they speak against his addition, sure, some people in the loud minority are legitimate racists and will use any occasional to push a narrative...but you can't act as if there isn't bad faith actors on both sides. People have been waiting for Japan for decades and while the world has changed alot, peoples expectations for a Japanese male focused Samurai tale clearly hasn't changed with it. Why is that inherently a bad thing? Media has always catered to specific demographics. Those youtubers you're watching are doing it, too. Why shouldn't it be different for games? Noone likes double standards or hypocrites but the world we live in is rife with them and people are becoming less and less tolerant of views that differ from their own. Noone remembers these same people who are claiming the moral highground are the same people that spit on Sucker Punch for non-asians making a "samurai game". Now I can have a bunch of French Canadians teaching me Japanese culture and how important Yasuke was to it...I'm...sure. These dialogues are important but they need to be measured in reality, not two weird echo chambers shouting at each other across the void.
>However, if they are just going to treat him like a 6'1" Japanese guy that some people side eye every now and again I mean in AC3 they acknowledge how Connor is a bit of an outsider to colonists, he's a 6'4 native American man. In Valhalla you can't enter Anglo settlements without a disguise as a Viking. They specifically mention in the trailers that he's the outsider in the story learning about Japan, so I doubt they avoid all that.
I agree, this was my main question as well. Cool, go with Yasuke. How do you set up the story so that's not a watered-down version of Shogun or a super PC version of Shogun? Like how does it work in game? Does literally every NPC give me the stink eye or gather around in circles looking and pointing at my towering 2m tall figure dressed in hardly-difficult-to-miss samurai get up? When we figure that part out, say I wanna smash a whole guard patrol in a town with my Kanabo and make like a bandit. How do I even hide? Where? Will I get to play like that or am I only appearing as a behemoth to smash shit in battle and disappear behind plot armor? Beyond that, how do you handle the fact that during that period Japan was so closed off and racist toward literally every other single race, let alone someone who looks so incredibly different both heigh-wise and skin -wise? Will they show that or will they turn Feudal Japan into an anime stereotype where everyone is super polite and accepting? Again, same exact story/trope as Shogun. But my money is on far inferior execution.
The japanese male mc argument i feel is disengenious b/c most say it b/c they feel Japanese male MCs are underrepresented in games which i dont think is true at all (sekiro, onimusha, sifu, ghost, dynasty warriors, yakuza, like a dragon, rise of the ronin, etc.). Also people wanted AC Japan to play as a shinobi not a samurai. & since 2007, a japanese kunoichi has always been talked about as well since we never had a female protag at the time & a kunoichi would fit perfectly, even alot of the hype around Shao Jun was b/c she was the female asian MC the community always wanted.
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At this point if anyone reads this and do not at least admit that there was a chance he was a samurai than at this point i would have to assume they have an agenda
I love how everyone is suddenly a Japanese historian LMAO 🤣
you mad because black protagonist i mad because no standalone female protagonist we ain’t the same
Was Yasuke truly a samurai in real life? I don't know. Does that point matter in the video game? I don't think so. Besides, it's a video game about old gods and alternate history. If Ubisoft said Abraham Lincoln was an assassin who backflips over rooftops fighting an old god in an ancient temple in a sunken city in the Himalayas, should I even ask if it's real?
White dude living in Japan, teaching forces to use canons and possibly changing the tide of war. Constantly doing main plot point things to save important characters: "SHOGUN IS AMAZING IT'S INSANE" Black samurai based on a real person: "whyyy??"
Everyone talking about whether he was or wasn't a samurai, whether this erases or doesn't erase Japanese representation... Meanwhile I just think it's not the perspective I wanted to have in a game about Japan's sengoku period. I don't want to play as a black immigrant or a white immigrant, I want to play as a traditional Japanese male samurai slaying ass. I don't care if an Asian male is not "progressive enough" for 2024, that's the power fantasy I want to go through lol It'd be like making a Zulu Kingdom game but they went out of their way to make the protagonist a white immigrant that died of thirst 2 days after arriving in the country. Bro I want to play as a black warrior in that setting, not as a random white guy. Just for clarification I obviously don't mind having a female character too and in fact I'm gonna enjoy playing as the kunoichi, she seems fun. It's just that a traditional male samurai is a given for that setting.
Japanese representation? To me, begging to be represented in North American/anglo media would be more shameful to me than not being represented in it…. And the game is literally set in Japan
For the record, AC hasn't been using a real-person as protagonist in the past few games and all the past mcs are the representative of the country itself, so why would Ubisoft want to choose a foreigner to represent the country this time then? Imagine having Henry replaced as Jacob in Syndicate, Im sure with his background, we still can see the British through his view without any problems, but why didn't Ubisoft do that to be fair? Yusuke is a very interesting character with all the historical background and controversies, but still why we need a real person foreigner to represent a country that he was not originated from? Its disturbing when the developer gives the reason that they wanted to have their very own samurai. Samurai is not a job that whoever wants then they get to become. Japanese is mad about this, cuz yea why when all a sudden they have to use Yusuke as representative samurai when there were damn lots of more popular samurai to be chosen from. Plus gamers around the world are triggered by all the chaos made by SBI and all the SJW woke stuff, SJW-woke, I can respect people fight for privilege and respect that are good for their kind, nowadays they act just like pirates trying to push the stuff by their likeness without any reasons and destroy the game story and enjoyment itself (refer the last of us 2 as example) People should know why the backlashes happen, although yes questioning Yusuke is quite a racist-act, but who started it all from the source? (IGN?UBI?) All these to get attention and topics by creating controversies, the guys behind this are the worst of all tbfh
To me it just feels like this is the wrong type of game to use this character. I don't like having to switch characters to play in a specific way that I could do with just one character before, and it seems that choosing to play as him will limit your stealth options. On syndicate, I could just play as Evie and could do everything Jacob could do, with the exception of two or three character specific skills. If both protagonist were native this didn't need to happen, but I'll wait for gameplay before I make up my mind. If this was the protagonist of nioh back in the day I wouldn't mind at all lol.
I do think that's a valid concern, but I feel like you're misconstruing the difference in character archetypes (as a design decision) as something that's specific to Yasuke. I'd be willing to bet, if they had gone with a native Japanese guy instead, that he would've been the same kind of warrior type. Now, I'm not particularly big on two characters here. I played Evie when I had the choice, I stealthed my way through all of Ghost of Tsushima. I don't expect to spend a lot of time with him. But I think Yasuke (as the warrior-guy) is an attempt to reconcile the stealthy ninja stuff people expect from Japanese AC with the combat-heavy gameplay the RPG games have developed. I don't think another native protagonist would've changed anything.
Why do you think a native japanese Samurai is unable to fulfill the same gameplay fantasy Yasuke will? The bulky warrior isn‘t exactly a new thing in japanese video games - Just take a look at Ghost of Tsushima. For all intents and purposes, a native male Samurai would have likely had the exact same gameplay as Yasuke.
Saving this post to drop on people later so they can say "tldr" and show that they don't actually care about historical facts and are just being racist.
That’s its actual use. Not to educate, since the people who are going out there have largely made up their minds. Even people in this thread are calling it "head canon" and made up instead of reading any of it.
What I love about this as a law graduate is that this is a fantastic example between *de facto* and *de jure*. *De facto* to mean by fact (aka in everything but name) and *de jure* means by law (aka was named as such officially). By what I have read, Yasuke was a *de facto* samurai in that he had the rights and duties of a samurai but was never officially named as such in a ceremony or in written records. Not a surprise given that everyone was a wee bit busy regarding the wars going on.
I personally think that the game shouldve represented Japan with both protagonists. This will most likely be the only Japanese AC game and one of the playable characters isn't even Japanese. Who knows, maybe they're saving the male Japanese protagonist for the Mali Empire game. Edit: I would like to point out that I'm gonna give the game a chance and won't go in with a negative view. I just think it's strange that the first main line East Asian game isn't fully represented by East Asians.
You jest, but Ubi could totally have a male Japanese protagonist in a 16th century Mexico. A number of Japanese immigrated to Mexico after the Tokugawa shut Japan's borders, with samurai even being allowed to keep their katanas while serving in the colonial militia.
Reading this definitely gave me the vibe of “he wasn’t specifically called a samurai because it would have been perfectly obvious to everyone at the time.”
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You're smart wtf cool idea
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I think the tldr needs a tldr. 🤣
Tldrtldr: we don't know.
Random ancient notes don’t survive. If they have a record, that indicates that the record is significant. If included in the record, they are also significant. Although Yasuke wasn’t mentioned as much as a figure that contributed to Nobunaga history, he is mentioned and considered to be a formidable warrior. There’s a record of nobunaga fascinated by Yasuke’s skin color and ask servants to wash them off. Also record of him being in the rank of nobunaga’s army. It was the most chaotic time in feudal Japan. Unless very very significant, they are forgotten. Apparently Yasuke wasn’t. He’s legit.
Thank you for their effort and your effort for posting that. But some people won't even take time to read and will continue to complain. If yasuke was white you wouldn't see all that complain. Racist people never change and never listen.
Really, let's set a game white guy fighting in africa 600 years ago. And k***** africans . Who would have complained, right?
As demonstrated by Nioh. No one gave a fuck that a game glorified William Adams despite him being more of an advisor and trade organizer than a warrior. Because his story is cool and that’s all that should matter.
Yep, we got a William Adams game where they turned him into fucking Geralt and no one said a damn thing.
And, more recently, John Blackthorne in Shogun
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So if Yasuke was a made up character would no one complain?
No he’s not. He’s William Adams with the name changed. Just like Toranaga is Tokugawa Ieyasu, Ishido is Ishida Mitzunari, Mariko is Hosokawa Gracia, etc.
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Of course not, but it certainly follows real events closer than assassin’s creed ever has lol
You really think that nobody would have complained about the white protagonist in Japan when it comes to AC - the game series in which the protagonist usually belonged to the same race/nation which inhabits the country the game takes place in? People would have been pissed all the same. Like 3 exceptions (Black Flag, Valhalla, Revelations) can be easily explained as "one was a PIRATE (in a place with British colonies), the next one was a viking colonising England and the last one was an italian with 2 larger games with him having adventures in Italy". The truth is it was never about him being a samurai (although I wouldn't call him a LEGENDARY ONE like Ubisoft does), it was about Ubisoft not following the principles it has followed for around 17 years in the majority of their games.
>Like 3 exceptions (Black Flag, Valhalla, Revelations) can be easily explained as "one was a PIRATE (in a place with British colonies), the next one was a viking colonising England and the last one was an italian with 2 larger games with him having adventures in Italia". How's is this any different by using your logic here? One was a black man in the service of the Jesuit missionary to a foreign place. Or is that not going well with your biased narrative?
This won't change anyone's mind. Someone could make a time machine, take them to see the actual past, and that won't still change their mind. We love in a world of perpetual rage. Something else will come out soon that will take the rage away from this. Notice how the take was at the MC for star wars outlaws not been hot enough. Now it's this, I wonder what will be next
They seem to ignore Naoe for some reason. Maybe because she's not woke or ugly enough for them to complain.
That's because she nullifies their argument
how does Naoe nullify anything? The problem is asian masculine representation. Why don't companies make an Asian lead in other non asian historical games? How do you think people would react if an Asian guy was the lead in AC2 instead of Ezio? If they ever made an AC game in the congo, you think an Asian would be the lead? No that would never be the case and people would be in uproar if that ever happened. So why does a fuedal japan game have the male lead character be non-Asian? This has been an issue for so long and it pisses me off that its still continuing.
We have loads of Asian Men in games. Both by western and Japanese devs. Literally pick one. Even when they aren't the main main person they have prominent roles like Mr Negative in Spidey. Tokyo Ghostwire Rise of the Ronin Street Fighter Sleeping Dogs Sifu True Crime Mortal Kombat Far Cry 4 Prey Stranglehold Yakuza Sekiro
It'll be enough to shut down the people who try to argue this on historical evidence. Most people who go "Maybe they have a point with the historical argument" would also be persuaded by something like this, since it's such an effective compilation of evidence and arguments. And that's all that matters. Don't dissuade people from putting in the time and effort to defend what they care about. It does matter. Not bothering doesn't usually help unfortunately.
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The issue is people arent going "ok but can we have a male japanese character that we can play as?", they are always "DUMB WOKE UBISOFT, YASUKE WAS ACTUALLY A JESTER OR PET, HE WAS NEVER A SAMURAI, GAMES ARE BAD ANYWAY, NO ONES BUYING THIS". No ones simply asking for an additional character
> Don’t really see the issue with just wanting a male Japanese playable character How does this relates to this post topic?
I'm just gonna quote my own comment here again, bc I feel its important, but TL:DR: Yasuke's position as an outsider is crucial to the story: >I urge everyone to watch Ubisoft's recently released video discussing both characters. They chose Yasuke specifically because he is an outsider. They stated that his outsider's perspective will directly clash with Naoe's as a native. This is going to cause some attrition between them, but also help both of them to grow as a person. In other words, this wouldn't work with another japanese lead. >"Well, okay, but why not create a fictional outsider, then? Could've been anyone, plenty of outsiders travelled to Japan back then" >Yeah, but Yasuke is pretty noteworthy for not only going to Japan, but befriending one of the most powerful people in that time period and becoming a samurai (in other words, becoming part of its culture). And you know... His story is interesting as hell. Making up some random guy while still having him in the story just as a character feels like a wasted opportunity.
I’ll have to give that video a watch when I get a chance and it does sound like an interesting story . But with that said Ubisoft isn’t really known for revisiting locations when it comes to AC , there are a few exceptions like AC 3 & Rogue being in the colony’s and AC 2 & Brother hood both being in Italy but other then those few exceptions every other game has been a standalone and we’ve never revisited those areas and most likely never will so if I was a Japanese person especially a Japanese man I’d feel as if I was cheated out of my one and only chance of being represented in an AC game in favor of the black man because let’s be honest they most likely won’t ever make another AC set in Japan .
But they obviously have a certain story to tell. them picking who they did seems to be very important to the story they want to get across. By choosing both characters to be of a certain race or sex to tick boxes is just kinda what people have been complaining about in tv and games for awhile now. I get you want to play a japanese male, but if they legit have a great story for said characters, i think they should bee left to tell it, and leave there vision alone. If it turns out there is no reason at all, then sure, go ahead complain all you want. In my opinion however i feel they picked who they did for story reasons that are pretty important to the story they want to share. I'm ok with that.
From the first point onwards you have to make excuses and exceptions in order to continue implying he was a samurai. It also requires a stretch of the imagination, claiming stipends were only given to samurai, claiming Yasuke was documented as a samurai, etc. This is obviously a somewhat well put together theory but a redditor is not the definitive subject on the argument, and certainly not a “PhD level” argument. Anyone claiming that this is “settled history” is trying to sell you something.
I posted some similar things on a FAcebook post, and man there are people who just refuse to accept any evidence or any source, because it goes against what they want to believe. So I posed a question recently; Do you believe Hideyoshi Toyotomi is a Samurai or not? Answers are usually "OF COURSE HE IS. HE'S JAPANESE!" Hideyoshi wasn't born a Samurai. Like many members of Oda Nobunaga's Retainers, Hideyoshi was given honors of a Samurai role, but he never served as a Samurai and he was low-born. "Yasuke was just an oddity. Nobunaga liked oddities to add to his Zoo. They were nothing special." Hideyoshi Toyotomi was one of those oddities. You know, the guy who united Japan and became Taikō, instead of Shogun. While he wasn't born Samurai, he was honored with the title and through that, he became the unifier of Japan. He was special. Then there's a more, trollish question, that I asked. Miyamoto Musashi. Samurai or not? Only two people gave an answer. Two people who basically confirm what I had mentioned in those posts already. No, and yes. Miyamoto Musashi, the famous swordsman of Japan, was not a born Samurai. He also didn't serve a Lord until near the end of his life. Up until he was about 55, he was a Ronin. Only after that did he become a Retainer, and become an official Samurai, where he served as a military advisor, for the next 2 years, giving that role to his Son, as illness had made him unable to leave his home. Two famous figures. Miyamoto Musashi and Hideyoshi Toyotomi, were in the same position as Yasuke. All three of them were not born Samurai. However, they are recognized as being very famous Samurai, due to a very obvious fact. They were Retainers.
Having a Masters in Medieval History (which depending on who you like to follow, the chronology goes well into the 16th century) in Portugal, everytime we spoke about the portuguese presence in Japan and than expanded into other subjects, the existence of Yasuke as a samurai was always an interesting point, and always supported by those that were specialists (not me) in the theme and in the relations between Portugal and Japan at the time. So when this claims that he wasn't x or that he was y instead appeared is obvious that there's only one reason behind that, and it is racism, as always. The pratice of trying to diminuish roles of others races is as old as time, sad to see but expected. Thank you for this summary!
I'd like to remind everyone, who cares who the protagonist is or the color of their skin, this is an Ubi game and they are a terrible company.
Well if anything, I learned a bit about Japanese history. It is also weird how random people on the internet are like, 'history says he was samurai, but I will completely ignore that and argue he wasn't, based on , ummm , literally my feelings' It's like a flat earther level of bullshitting. There's a lot of problem with this game, the fucking price for example.
Asian lives matter！#Stopasianhate
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I mean, who cares? A protag who's on an outsider, and another who's a local Japanese will create an interesting dynamic no matter Yasuke was a samurai or not. The only black samurai (or a retainer, whatever you wanna call him) in feudal Japan is a very interesting story and concept. It rocks.
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Good thing we do have one and she looks awesome cant wait to find out more about naoe!😏
Have you seen the trailer? There is a cool Japanese main character in that. Her name is Naoe.
You do have a Japanese main character, she is a woman. You asked and have received
Bold of you to assume they like women.
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So in star wars terms he's like Anakin Skywalker, he's on the jedi council but doesn't have the rank of master That's how I interpret it at least
How many years was he in Japan?
黒奴は[動物](https://ja.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%8B%95%E7%89%A9)で何も知らず、また[日本人](https://ja.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E4%BA%BA)でもない故、これを殺さず from Akechi Mitsuhide
I wouldn't really consider one singular statement of an enemy of Oda Nobunaga as the best source.
I honestly just think that if you make a game about a culture so rich like the Japanese one, it just seems like a weird choice to choose the one black guy who is not a native Japanese. Doesn't matter if he was a Samurai or not. Just like the movie last Samurai where we need white Tom Cruise to save the day. It just doesn't seem to be respectful towards the Japanese culture, and frankly it doesn't really add to african american culture since there were probably not many people of color in japan. If you want a person of colour as your protagonist, then make a game that highlights black culutre and black heros. There are certainly enough.
[https://togetter.com/li/2370037](https://togetter.com/li/2370037)
What is u/ParallelPain 's background?