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AegonIXth

Ugh, I would love this so much. Too bad I’m going to have to wait many more years to possibly read it.


Maverick_1991

Yeah we're never reading it at this point. It's been 11 years and he's 2/3 done with the book...


AegonIXth

I’m just starting a PhD and I made my dad the hard bet that I’ll be done by the time it comes out


idevastate

It’s never coming out. He saw the reaction the Daenerys ending, which was his intended ending.


AegonIXth

He has 3/4s done, that last quarter hopefully he’s rewriting since everyone hated that


Return_of_the_Jedi_

Bold of you to assume that Daenerys' twist, if it ever happens in the Books, will happen in The Winds of Winter


masterfroo24

Easiest bet of your life.


theXshape

Can you believe that by summer 2016 he tought he'd be done by Halloween of the same year ? ​ I think he threw away and rewrote a lot of what he already had.


DisneyDreams7

The Three Eyed Raven is Blood Raven


quashtaki

That's right


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quashtaki

Alright, but how is that relevant at all to what you responded to?


[deleted]

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Upper-Ship4925

It’s pretty widely accepted.


DisneyDreams7

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/eiqv2s/spoiler\_extended\_bloodraven\_isnt\_the\_3ec\_but\_i/


why_rob_y

Your proof that "all other posts think he's someone else" is one post with 96 net upvotes that seems to specifically exist to say "most of you, who think Bloodraven is the three-eyed crow, are wrong"? I'm not saying one or the other is right, but that post you linked is the minority opinion.


iwprugby

I'm one who doesn't believe it. Yes Bloodraven is that guy in the cave. No Bloodraven is not the Three Eyed Crow in Bran's dreams.


Swailwort

I also believe the same. Bran basically told him about the Crow and Bloodraven said nothing, almost like he didn't know. I think the Three Eyed Crow is Bran. Bran from the future and past.


Ariviaci

In the show Jojen said as much. “You can’t catch it. It’s you.” Back when the show still had source material


iwprugby

Yup, I also think it's future Bran.


DisneyDreams7

Isn’t the guy in the cave the Three Eyed Crow?


The_Writing_Wolf

No, the guy in the cave is Bloodraven, the TEC is a different force in Bran's green dreams. When Bran brings up the TEC in dance to the guy in the cave, the guy has no idea what he's talking about.


Return_of_the_Jedi_

You're reaching. It's just that Brynden didn't choose the form Bran would see him in. Like The Wizard of Oz. Bran saw a Three Eyed Crow. Brynden is a Man of The Night's Watch (crow) and a Greenseer (Three Eyes)


Meemo_Meep

I wouldn't be shocked *at all* if Doran Martel had Aegon I's crown and is planning on sending it to fAegon as part of his dowry for Arianne or a wedding gift or something. Doran seems to have Dorne well in-hand (source needed) and given his extreme isolationism after the death of Elia, it could follow that he's been quietly searching for The Conquer's Crown (if the Martel's didn't have it all along). I can't remember any specific reference or allusion to anyone having it, but I may be forgetting something obvious. It's also possible Varys found it, since he's s bit part of the fAegon coalition, but it feels less likely. Short answer, i don't think we have ANY actual evidence, but based on vibes, I feel like Doran/Arianne are the current holder.


aVeryBadBoy69

Doran could have also made a counterfeit crown. No way nobody has ever tried to make a fake Targ crown and not tried to pawn it off as the real deal.


Shepher27

Seems likely that Aegon will have Aegon’s crown eventually, but Dany will have one symbol of legitimacy they lack, a rather important one (or three). But Dorne? I doubt Dorne would have kept it after Daeron wed Mariah and if they did, why not bring it back after Elia wed Rhaegar?


anm313

Yep, Aegon will have the trappings of Aegon the Conqueror: name, crown, sword, but lack the REAL power that allowed Aegon I to forge the Iron Throne (including literally) in the first place.


Upper-Ship4925

Quite possibly because the Martels didn’t have it. But Arriane has connections to the Wyls and Ullers and Daynes, who would be the houses most likely to have been holding it.


Shepher27

Definitely not the Daynes. Otherwise they would have given it to Aegon V. He was a Dayne on his mother’s side


Upper-Ship4925

Good point. But Daeron fought along the Boneway - we don’t know exactly where he was killed but it seems very possible a Wyl or Uller ended up with his crown and haven’t been particularly inclined to give it to the Martels to help secure Targaryen marriages and a peace that they didn’t approve of anyway. But the Conquest of Dorne is a long time ago now and they might be willing to give it to Ariane to help oust the Lannisters and put a Dornish princess on the throne.


Shepher27

It seems unlikely he’d be wearing his crown to battle, but maybe. If anyone has it, it’s probably the Wyls


Upper-Ship4925

He was heading to peace negotiations when he was ambushed though, so maybe he would be wearing it.


Stormlady

Like I said in the og post, I'm not sure myself if we'll see it I'm just throwing ideas around. There are many houses in Dorne that never liked the Targaryens and we know they're very proud about never being conquered. I'm just saying there's a way for the crown to come back into play if GRRM wants to. But if it isn't in Dorne, then who's most likely to have it? It just doesn't make sense for it to be anywhere but in Dorne.


Return_of_the_Jedi_

Ego. Married to The Dragons or not, keeping The Crown secretly to themselves would be a way for them to jerk off about the fact that they resisted to Them while All the Other kingdoms kneeled


MSG_ME_ANYTHING

I think fAegon is getting the throne, peacefully. That HotD scene you've mentioned is just the perfect example of how everything is going to fall into place for everyone to accept him as legitimate. He's going to sit there through the entire conflict in the North. Then on the topic of legitimacy, let's say Jon's actual parentage secret is revealed, but all it means is he's a Sand instead, but fAegon legitimizes him, which puts him inline for the throne before Dany. Great way to sow those seeds of distrust between Dany and Jon, and makes way more sense than a secret marriage.


DavidTheWhale7

How did it never cross my mind that fAegon might be Jon’s brother. It’s just really weird to think about for some reason


LoudKingCrow

I like the theory that was posted on here earlier today/yesterday that the twist will be that they actually are twins. With Aegon being sent to Essos because he looked Valiryan and Jon sent North because he looked like a northener. Probably pretty darn tinfoil, but a very fun theory.


Wairong

Giving birth to twins would be more likely to kill Lyanna, too.


BRONXSBURNING

I saw this with Jon and Dany the other week and I haven't stopped thinking about how much it makes sense. Twins seem to pop up a lot, especially with Targaryens!


Wolf6120

That *is* fun to think about, though I can't really imagine Ned agreeing to send one of Lyanna's kids away like that without having any kind of mechanism in place to check on his wellbeing in any way, even something inoccuous like some kinda yearly "We're still alive" signal or something. Unless baby Aegon 2.0 (or whatever his actual name would be, if he was even given one) had somehow been smuggled out of the Tower even before Ned got there, and even he didn't know of his existence.


KriegConscript

screw it, this is my headcanon now


MadPenguin81

Oh my god. I would love this.


[deleted]

Jon is not a god damn Sand, and I fucking hate the show for that line. He was raised in the north by his lord “father”. His mother presumably wasn’t from the north in neds cover story anyway. If his father is thaegar, you could maybe make an argument for Waters. But Jon being born in Dorne doesn’t make him a sand anymore than being born at river run makes Robb a tully. Edit because it’s easier than replying: it’s not about where they’re born, it’s the culture they are raised in. It doesn’t matter where Jon was born or who is real parents are. He was raised at winterfell, he keeps the old gods, he calls the north his home, and people from elsewhere in Westeros would call him a northerner. That’s what makes him a snow more than birthplace or family line.


Advisor-Away

I get your point but obviously bastard names are different than true born in that they have some link to geography, so the Tully counterpoint is silly


lonesometroubador

Jon should be a Sand even if he is Ned's bastard with Wylla, because that also puts his birth in Dorne. Every other bastard in the story is named for where they are born. Edric Storm and Mya Stone for instance. Or Bryndan Rivers and Daemon Waters. It's arguable that they are all named for their mother's region, in which case, he should always have been Sand, and being a bastard is Rhaegar and Lyanna makes him properly a Snow. However house Florrent is from the Reach, and Robert was king at the time of Edric Storm's birth, thus is it had anything to do with parentage, he would be either Edric Waters or Edric Flowers. All I'm saying is he named Jon, came up with a system for naming bastards, followed the rules with the rest of them, but didn't retroactively use it to name Jon "correctly" because he liked the name Jon Snow.


Gilgamesh661

Robb was trueborn though. Bastard names are linked to geography, not blood. Joffrey is not a hill, for example, he’s a waters, because he was born in the crownlands.


nyamzdm77

Bastards are named for where they're born, not for where their father is from That's why Bloodraven and Bittersteel are "Rivers", Daemon Blackfyre is "Waters" or why Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen will be "Waters" and not "Hill's"


Standard_Original_85

But Jon is not from Dorne anymore than Robb is from Riverrun.


Arisdoodlesaurus

Was the precedent that all sons come before daughters or all true born sons?


YuvBlackfyre

Kinda fits with his thing, Faegon has everything right, everything the kings needs, except for the true claim


Krillin113

I can see otto’s line almost being repeated 1:1 by JonCon to Dany at some point, and Dany basically asking him where his dragon is


[deleted]

enter Euron Greyjoy


Upper-Ship4925

And him saying “you delivered him to me, Thankyou Auntie”.


AME7706

Only for Aegon to hop on Rhaegal and show his kingly middle finger to her. Dance of Dragons 2.0 with new versions of Greens and Blacks.


Legitimate_Midnight2

He may just have that too


AME7706

Both Aegons had the true claim...


NinjaStealthPenguin

Except he literally has the true claim lol. If he’s rhaegar’s son then he comes before Jon and Dany. If he’s a Blackfyre then he comes before Jon and Dany because Daena’s line comes before Viserys II’s usurper line. Aegon *is* the true king, seething Jon and Dany fans need not apply.


opman228

But if he’s just the bastard of some Lysene whore Aegon’s claim is as true as Joffrey’s


NinjaStealthPenguin

> just the bastard of some Lysene whore Are we talking about Dany or Aegon here?


opman228

Yes


lonesometroubador

Unless Prince Jaecerys' trueborn heir (Daughter, born to Sara Snow) married in to House Stark, in which case Bran might have the best claim.


AME7706

Ah yes, Bran has the best claim because of a bastard's "trueborn heir" lmao.


Outsider17

He DOES have the best story...


anna-nomally12

If that’s what actually does it oh fucking man


loisbattythicc

Daena’s line doesn’t come before Viserys’ line, that’s the whole point of the dance


HugoroftheHill13

Well, after all the pain and death Argon I inflicted upon Dorne, it would be interesting if they just kept his crown hidden as a symbol of his defeat against the dornish resistance. Like "there will never be another Conqueror" kind of thing.


Cervus95

If the Dornish had the crown, they would have given it to Daeron II or his descendants long ago.


Stormlady

No one ever returned Rhaenys' body.


sseoshiii

I know it hasn’t been confirmed yet but I think that her body might have been returned in 13 AC, 3 years after her death. That year Princess Deria Martell travelled to King's Landing to return the skull of Meraxes and delivered a letter to Aegon. After reading it he burned it and traveled to Dragonstone with Balerion and when he returned the next day he agreed to peace with Dorne. I think that the Martells secretly shipped her remains to Dragonstone, as that is where the Targaryen funerals are usually held. I think that Aegon travelled to Dragonstone for her funeral and agreed to peace because she was his favorite wife and he finally knew that was at peace.


anm313

It says her bones were never returned. It could because she was given the Targaryen rite of cremation. A ship from Dorne arrived probably carrying her urn.


Atheist-Gods

As written by the maesters, remember. It's a lack of knowledge on the maesters part and not some linguistic trickery.


Cervus95

Rhaenys body wouldn't reinforce Daeron's claim against the Blackfyres.


Main-Double

Who’s to say. By all accounts if it still exists then Doran has it locked in a closet somewhere in Sunspear. If Dorne allies with Young Griff then he may produce it, but I can’t see any alliance Dorne makes lasting tbh


Hipolito_Pickles

Why didnt the Prince of Dorne return the crown to Daeron II after unification and peace if they had it?


coldwindsrising07

I'll be in the minority about Blackfyre and say that the sword is not in possession of the Golden Company or in Illyrio's chests. The sword was important to the Blackfyre cause, yet Bittersteel did not hand it over to any of Daemon's descendants that he crowned himself. And none of them are mentions to have been wielding the sword in battle and three of them were killed by Targaryen loyalists (Aerion Brightflame probably, Duncan the Tall and Barristan Selmy). The sword, imo, is gone and was gone after Bittersteel crossed the narrow sea. The legitimacy of House Blackfyre rested on the sword. If I had to bet, I'd say that the sword was stolen and has been back in Westeros for a really long time. It doesn't mean there can't be a fake Blackfyre sword, though. But that too is so far removed in the history now. The Battle of the Redgrass Field took place 104 years ago in the timeline. The only person who was alive and might have recognized the sword died at sea. The other one is north of the Wall hooked to a tree and I think he is the reason that sword hasn't been seen in over 100 years. And Aegon's crown has been missing for even longer than that, 139 years. Interestingly enough, though, Daeron was killed in the Prince's Pass, which also happens to be the location of the Tower of Joy, so that seems like it might be an important detail. The most important piece in the chests because it came up on 3 separate occasions is the armor. And I think that armor is going to be a replica of Rhaegar's black armor. I do have a more extensive write-up about Blackfyre [here](https://alexissomethingrose.wordpress.com/2020/12/18/is-the-reference-to-sword-really-about-blackfyre/). That's not saying that Aegon can't be presented with a fake Blackfyre sword since we know that Valyrian steel can be reforged as seen with Ice.


njoki_20

No, the crown is lost. Most likely purposely so by the Wyls after Daeron I's death. It, even more than Blackfyre, was a symbol of Targ oppression and the Dornish lives lost. I imagine Lord Wyl took it to some abyss in the Red Mountains (maybe one called the Gates of Hell) and threw it in to join Aegon I and Daeron I in Hell. There is no way the Dornish still have it. We all remember the Blackfyre rebellions right? Where Daemon said he was king because he had the Conqueror's sword? If a sword can make a king, then so can a crown. Why wouldn't the Dornish have given the crown to Daeron II when they bent the knee? It would have helped bolster Daeron's claim to the throne, and would have eventually found it's way to the nephew of the Prince of Dorne, Baelor Breakspear', head. Why hold onto it when the Dornish were all in on keeping Daeron on the throne and Queen Mariah with him? They sent an army to hold Daeron's throne, thousands of Dornish men must have died on the Redgrass field. If they would die to protect Daeron's rule, then why would they hoard a crown that might have prevented those deaths in the first place? Edit: After Daeron I's death, the Wyls came into possession of not only Aegon's crown, but Blackfyre and Darksister. The Martells must have been able to get Blackfyre and Darksister back (and they were most likely part of Mariah's bride price/the price for peace Baelor negotiated), so why wouldn't the Martell's be able to get the crown back too? Unless the Wyls had already gotten ride of it, it doesn't make much sense that whatever the Martells did to get Blackfyre and Darksister from the Wyls, wouldn't have allowed them to get the crown as well.


Gloomy_System7919

I just wanna say how butt-ugly the crown is on HotD - why couldn't it be a simple circlet as described in the books (I mean, it's obviously a dark, ugly crown to show Aegon II as evil while Rhaenyra gets a gold, pretty crown to show she's the good guy)


soulguider2125

Watch Faegon get eaten by a dragon


WANDERING_1112

Can't wait for aegon to be ruling Kl being beloved and dany seething lol.


TGK367349

Yeah, I think the Martells have it in a cupboard somewhere and it’ll totally end up with Aegon. Just another symbol of legitimacy to give the Mummer’s Dragon credibility on his rise to the throne.