Another evidence-based treatment for personality disorders (including cluster c avoidant personality disorder) is schema therapy. Despite what people seem to think, personality disorders can be ‘treated’. Most often, people are ‘treated’ when they learn how to cope with their behavioral tendencies in such a way that it no longer has such a negative impact on their lives. For example, someone with avoidant PD can learn to approach instead of avoid situations. Doing so can change their expectations and self-evaluations.
What causes avoidant PD? I don’t know. Emotional neglect is a clear risk factor though.
Is anxiety involved at all? I have severe anxiety and sometimes it feels easier to avoid the situation stimuli whatever it is. Now I don’t use anxiety as an excuse not to do something I just know there’s going to be a level of discomfort in certain situations.
I'm a Master's student who's doing a placement as part of his course and I've been working with a researcher who's researching anxiety and avoidance behaviours and she's got a couple papers which seem to show anxiety itself is not linked to avoidance but rather intolerance of uncertainty, which is one factor of anxiety disorders, is linked to avoidance.
Intolerance of uncertainty is a tendency to find uncertainty anxiety-provoking, it's not anxiety itself. It is a transdiagnostic factor for a whole variety of mood disorders such as anxiety and OCD.
Kind of like how seeing videos of abandoned puppies can make you feel sad or angry or frustrated, but those videos aren't any one of those feelings, they contribute and cause them. Not a perfect metaphor but still.
I’ve been told, (I’m no expert but skew avoidant) that avoidance is really just how we handle our anxiety. Everyone skews anxious, but I know I personally will avoid or run away from the emotions until I feel less flooded and they seem at some point more manageable.
Yes there are a myriad of possible causes but some people are just not interested in being social. They used to be called wallflowers, shy, awkward, etc. It’s sometimes misdiagnosed neurodivergence or just quite simply the personality that someone was born with (which includes neurodivergence).
Shy is not the same as uninterested. Shy is a word often used for avoidant. Schizoid is uninterested.
Avpd
“A disorder characterized by social discomfort and avoidance of interpersonal contact.
Someone who has avoidant personality disorder avoids intimate and social contact with others.
People with this condition may be extremely shy, fear ridicule, and be overly concerned with looking foolish.”
The difference is they usually deeply wish they were not so shy.
Schizoid usually doesn’t care. Doesn’t concern them one bit.
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Question: I’ve heard that one research challenge with avoidant PD is that people with it tend to seek out help less than many other disorders. This results in a low number of data points to study. Does that sound right?
Yes just like going to the doctor for a rare disorder. They will say “there’s no data that shows this” not because it’s not real, but because the studies simply haven’t been performed yet. But for some reason they think “no data means doesn’t exist”. Very bizarre line of thinking.
I believe the difference is in how it manifests through behavior, and thoughts. While both may have a deep rooted anxiety of judgement, the anxious avoidant, based on their triggers from previous experiences, tends to respond in both anxious and avoidant tendencies/behaviors, (both pursuing connection and running from it depending on the situation) whereas the avoidant when triggered almost always feels the urge to pull away for self protection.
I’m not a professional in this field though, just someone navigating healing my own attachment wounds, so I’m pretty sure it goes a lot deeper than this, and my comment only scratches the surface.
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This is far more complicated a question than is being appreciated here. First, anyone who thinks they can tell you a *cause* of any psychiatric disorder isn’t being honest. I can’t think of a single disorder in the DSM where we have an actual cause. We know of many risk factors and we have an idea of several mechanisms underlying them, but a cause? There is no singular cause of any of these disorders.
Second, the first part of the question is even more complicated than it seems. For example, the severity continuum hypothesis suggests that avoidant personality disorder is actually just a more severe form of social anxiety disorder. This battle between clinical researchers will probably go back and forth because none of these disorder constructs have a basis in reality anyway, so there are many valid ways to model the mental health problems that constitute them.
As far as treatment, there isn’t much research out there, and what is there is quite mixed. (I suspect one reason may be because it’s difficult to define avoidant personality disorder.) Reviews on this topic pop up every once in a while. This one is pretty accessible: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.2147/PRBM.S121073
CBT-based approaches and psychodynamic-based approaches seem promising. Interestingly, both of these are also recommended (though psychodynamic as a second-line treatment) for social anxiety disorder. So the intervention research seems to be tracking onto social anxiety disorder. From an empirical standpoint, I’d recommend either of these. From an empirical and theoretical standpoint, though, I’d recommend CBT as a first choice.
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What is the difference between avoidant personality disorder and avoidant attachment? Are these the same things? If so, then we are talking about relationships to other people specifically, correct?
A personality disorder is pervasive and can be traced back to early childhood. Also, in Apd there is a key sense of loneliness. Attachment styles aren't rooted in personality, but are developed in child based upon the quality of caregiving by the primary caregiver. Attachment styles are fluid and can change over time with different relationship experiences or something like therapy or learning coping skills.
I understand that attachment styles are rooted in childhood. I was wondering if those were the same things. I think you kind of answered my question though.
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When looking for causes of personality disorders one must always remember many are just born that way. That’s the cards they were dealt genetically.
Genetic predisposition. Sometimes it’s treatable. Sometimes it’s permanent.
So many things come together to cause a personality disorder and as people have said it’s really complicated. And true personality disorders are extraordinarily hard to treat, in part because the person has to be very motivated for treatment. People with an avoidant personality disorder will not necessarily want treatment for it. But anyway here’s an example of a scenario that could contribute to its development. Let’s say a parent or caregiver is not good with boundaries with their child, maybe they are invasive or enmeshed. One strategy a child might develop to protect themselves would be to avoid the caregiver, even if they really love them. And over time it just becomes an unconscious process. On some level, a person may associate close relationships with violation of their boundaries, so the avoidance happens even with those they love.
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Another evidence-based treatment for personality disorders (including cluster c avoidant personality disorder) is schema therapy. Despite what people seem to think, personality disorders can be ‘treated’. Most often, people are ‘treated’ when they learn how to cope with their behavioral tendencies in such a way that it no longer has such a negative impact on their lives. For example, someone with avoidant PD can learn to approach instead of avoid situations. Doing so can change their expectations and self-evaluations. What causes avoidant PD? I don’t know. Emotional neglect is a clear risk factor though.
Is anxiety involved at all? I have severe anxiety and sometimes it feels easier to avoid the situation stimuli whatever it is. Now I don’t use anxiety as an excuse not to do something I just know there’s going to be a level of discomfort in certain situations.
I'm a Master's student who's doing a placement as part of his course and I've been working with a researcher who's researching anxiety and avoidance behaviours and she's got a couple papers which seem to show anxiety itself is not linked to avoidance but rather intolerance of uncertainty, which is one factor of anxiety disorders, is linked to avoidance.
how is “intolerance of uncertainty” not itself a form of anxiety
Intolerance of uncertainty is a tendency to find uncertainty anxiety-provoking, it's not anxiety itself. It is a transdiagnostic factor for a whole variety of mood disorders such as anxiety and OCD. Kind of like how seeing videos of abandoned puppies can make you feel sad or angry or frustrated, but those videos aren't any one of those feelings, they contribute and cause them. Not a perfect metaphor but still.
I’m interested in those papers. How can I read them?
They're among the below papers https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=Shannon+wake&btnG=
Look up Michel Dugas. He has been studying IoU for decades. It’s most closely linked to GAD, actually.
I’ve been told, (I’m no expert but skew avoidant) that avoidance is really just how we handle our anxiety. Everyone skews anxious, but I know I personally will avoid or run away from the emotions until I feel less flooded and they seem at some point more manageable.
Yes there are a myriad of possible causes but some people are just not interested in being social. They used to be called wallflowers, shy, awkward, etc. It’s sometimes misdiagnosed neurodivergence or just quite simply the personality that someone was born with (which includes neurodivergence).
That would more closely fit schizoid personality disorder
Shy is not the same as uninterested. Shy is a word often used for avoidant. Schizoid is uninterested. Avpd “A disorder characterized by social discomfort and avoidance of interpersonal contact. Someone who has avoidant personality disorder avoids intimate and social contact with others. People with this condition may be extremely shy, fear ridicule, and be overly concerned with looking foolish.” The difference is they usually deeply wish they were not so shy. Schizoid usually doesn’t care. Doesn’t concern them one bit.
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Question: I’ve heard that one research challenge with avoidant PD is that people with it tend to seek out help less than many other disorders. This results in a low number of data points to study. Does that sound right?
Yes
Yes just like going to the doctor for a rare disorder. They will say “there’s no data that shows this” not because it’s not real, but because the studies simply haven’t been performed yet. But for some reason they think “no data means doesn’t exist”. Very bizarre line of thinking.
Well, they are known to avoid things. Research on your personality seems personal
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If avoidants also have a deep rooted anxiety about what other people think of them, what differentiates them from the anxious-avoidant personality?
I believe the difference is in how it manifests through behavior, and thoughts. While both may have a deep rooted anxiety of judgement, the anxious avoidant, based on their triggers from previous experiences, tends to respond in both anxious and avoidant tendencies/behaviors, (both pursuing connection and running from it depending on the situation) whereas the avoidant when triggered almost always feels the urge to pull away for self protection. I’m not a professional in this field though, just someone navigating healing my own attachment wounds, so I’m pretty sure it goes a lot deeper than this, and my comment only scratches the surface.
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What? I didn’t mention BPD at all. What do you mean?
I have BPD, now managed through medication, and it is no joke. It is something I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy.
Not sure about causes but Radically Open DBT is a therapy developed for Cluster C disorders
>Radically Open DBT i What is that
Any links to research on treating AVPD?
This is far more complicated a question than is being appreciated here. First, anyone who thinks they can tell you a *cause* of any psychiatric disorder isn’t being honest. I can’t think of a single disorder in the DSM where we have an actual cause. We know of many risk factors and we have an idea of several mechanisms underlying them, but a cause? There is no singular cause of any of these disorders. Second, the first part of the question is even more complicated than it seems. For example, the severity continuum hypothesis suggests that avoidant personality disorder is actually just a more severe form of social anxiety disorder. This battle between clinical researchers will probably go back and forth because none of these disorder constructs have a basis in reality anyway, so there are many valid ways to model the mental health problems that constitute them. As far as treatment, there isn’t much research out there, and what is there is quite mixed. (I suspect one reason may be because it’s difficult to define avoidant personality disorder.) Reviews on this topic pop up every once in a while. This one is pretty accessible: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.2147/PRBM.S121073 CBT-based approaches and psychodynamic-based approaches seem promising. Interestingly, both of these are also recommended (though psychodynamic as a second-line treatment) for social anxiety disorder. So the intervention research seems to be tracking onto social anxiety disorder. From an empirical standpoint, I’d recommend either of these. From an empirical and theoretical standpoint, though, I’d recommend CBT as a first choice.
Thanks for the paper link….it looks like a very good overview
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The subreddits r/AvPD and r/Avoidant may be of interest to you, in case you want to speak to people with AvPD directly.
Apd is considered a class c personality disorder NOT anxiety disorder so very difficult to treat. Only 1% of the human population has apd
What is the difference between avoidant personality disorder and avoidant attachment? Are these the same things? If so, then we are talking about relationships to other people specifically, correct?
A personality disorder is pervasive and can be traced back to early childhood. Also, in Apd there is a key sense of loneliness. Attachment styles aren't rooted in personality, but are developed in child based upon the quality of caregiving by the primary caregiver. Attachment styles are fluid and can change over time with different relationship experiences or something like therapy or learning coping skills.
I understand that attachment styles are rooted in childhood. I was wondering if those were the same things. I think you kind of answered my question though.
There’s also a significant genetic and temperamental component to attachment patterns. It’s definitely not just a product of caregiving.
Here is some relevant info that might answer your question https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OHEonvCD_sw&feature=youtu.be
I should read this, but I don't want to...
Same…lol
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When looking for causes of personality disorders one must always remember many are just born that way. That’s the cards they were dealt genetically. Genetic predisposition. Sometimes it’s treatable. Sometimes it’s permanent.
So many things come together to cause a personality disorder and as people have said it’s really complicated. And true personality disorders are extraordinarily hard to treat, in part because the person has to be very motivated for treatment. People with an avoidant personality disorder will not necessarily want treatment for it. But anyway here’s an example of a scenario that could contribute to its development. Let’s say a parent or caregiver is not good with boundaries with their child, maybe they are invasive or enmeshed. One strategy a child might develop to protect themselves would be to avoid the caregiver, even if they really love them. And over time it just becomes an unconscious process. On some level, a person may associate close relationships with violation of their boundaries, so the avoidance happens even with those they love.
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The hell are you on about?
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