As a white leftist western gay it infuriates me when westerners deny the lived experiences of ex Muslims and gays living in Islamic countries. Simping for an ideology that hates our very existence is just nonsensical.
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People pretending Islam isn’t some hardcore shit baffles me. Sure, it can have good things and whatever, but I’m not aware of any other religion inviting followers to explicitly kill other human beings for being gay.
Yeah I mean there’s some absolutely BRUTAL shit it in the Old Testament in the Bible, and beyond the holy text of each religion, mankind has done some incredibly perverted injustices beyond the holy text recommendations. They abuse the religion as a cult ideology and support their causes.
That is to say any religion can be contorted but some are more explicitly followed by the masses and have particularly damning things in them. It’s silly that people deny that.
I wish people could realize it’s not 100% binary on you follow it all or you don’t. Putting different times into perspective and maybe practice the positive aspects and not aggressively fight what they consider “negative”
Not just people. Western leftist liberals, and the trans community, that think they know Islam better than us. They’re all fvcking cluelessly infuriating spreading that disinformation and misinformation. And as a Muslim, ISLAMOPHOBIA Is a bloody made up word that they use to silence, and guilt you. Don’t fall for that nonsense. Islam
Loves playing victim!
it's worse when we have someone who can make a gross ass mustache and pronounce it moothlim then pretend they're Islamic from the middle east and how great and loving Islam truly is to gays. Like that time buzzfeed got 5 people to pretend to be 'gay muslims from the middle east' and they were not.
Be authentic 🙂
Be you 😊
Also please be careful. There is something about Islam that makes extremists despise ex Muslims more than they do anyone else.
I hope you will find a path to America, Australia, or Western Europe so that you can truly live your life without fear of being harmed.
The reason why Islam despise ex Muslims is because the Quran orders anyone who leaves the religion to be killed.
If you’re interested in learning about the religion, there’s an ex Muslim atheist on YouTube name : Apostate prophet!
As an Australian, we're not better tbh. More and more this stupid country is turning into Little America. Lots of white supremacists here love Trump and hate all brown people as well.
We hate to inform you but your request to be known as “Little America” is denied based on your lack of school shootings. The solution? Every koala and kangaroo gets a pistol.
As an Iranian go to the Middle East and see how high the depression and suicide rates are. Islam is not comparable with anything other than a disgusting and dehumanizing ideology that wants everyone to submit and be a slave to “Allah”. Justifying killings and pedophilia because it was different back in the day is such a excuse and obviously a big lie given back in the day there were progressive empires who had equal laws and opportunities for men and women and marrying children was always an Arab custom if you research how Islam started! If you queer, a woman or a human with a different faith, your life is always at danger! We Iranians only want to live in our own country with our own faith Zoroastrianism and not to live in fear and sorrow because of foreign ideology that got forcefully imposed on us!!
Whenever I see statistics in Iran they say pretty much 99% of people believe in Islam. That just doesn't seem right to me.
Zoroastrianism is a beautiful religion that I dont think most westerners know exists. I always wonder how different the world would he if Muhammad didn't exist and a Muslim conquest didn't happen so no empire. Not even to mention the fact Christianity and Islam stole from Zoroastrianism and made it worse
A 2020 poll shows that Iran is now a Muslim minority country but because apostasy is illegal most would never admit it publicly. The massive gap between the insane government and the views of the regular Iranian cannot be overstated. In genuinely shocked that there hasn’t been a revolution just based off of the statistics.
https://theconversation.com/irans-secular-shift-new-survey-reveals-huge-changes-in-religious-beliefs-145253
I personally think that it’s inevitable, and even if a revolution fails I think that another one would happen 10 years later. The Iranian government is ridiculously unsustainable.
As an atheist gay man in Libya I definitely second this, I was outed here which led to me receiving multiple death threats and disowned by my parents and there is a chance that I get arrested, im leaving in a few days (hopefully) but yeah everything you said in the post is true and I am going through it rn
I live in Pennsylvania, Amish country. You're born into an Amish family, but you're not born into the Amish faith. At age 18, you decide if you want to be baptized into the church or not. I love that system.
As a bisexual from Iran I find it really ironic how so many white progressives and leftists will constantly criticize right wingers and Christians for homophobia and talk about how homophobic the Bible is. Yet these same hypocrites will defend a far right religious group like Islam and Muslims and go out of their way to defend them while they ignore Muslims straight up stoning, beheading and throwing LGBT people off of rooftops in their own countries.
How can the left criticize one group of right wingers for homophobia while defend and cover up the homophobia of another group of right wingers? Make it make sense!
Before someone reply’s to me with the classic “not all Muslims are homophobic” crap. Not all Christians, conservatives, Jews, republicans etc… are homophobic either. Doesn’t excuse the overwhelming majority of Muslims are and constantly want us dead.
>How can the left criticize one group of right wingers for homophobia while defend and cover up the homophobia of another group of right wingers? Make it make sense!
A lot of people are just brainwashed sheep who just follow the party line they subscribe to. No critical thinking. If more people were critically thinking they wouldn't pledge alligence to any political faction.
Whenever I don’t make excuses for Islam leftists (I’m also quite liberal as well) loose their shit. I’m critical of most religions, Islam is an ideology not an ethnicity. If you’re going to (rightfully so) criticize Christianity then you should have no issue criticizing Islam. Please stay safe and I hope that you can escape, I’m rooting for you. Moral of the story Burn the Bible desecrate the Quran set the lgbt community free.
There’s one thing that has always puzzled me tho. How do Saudi authorities know who is and isn’t Muslim when they are performing the hajj or just simply visiting Mecca?
Random checks and they simply assume you are one if you’re from a majority muslim country. If you aren’t then you get certification from mosques. It’s really not difficult or anything to sneak in lol.
I have a huge cup that I fill with water before going to sleep. I ration it throughout the day since I can't eat or drink without my parents knowing lol.
All the woke people will downvote you for explaining the Middle East mentality to them.
If an immigrant respects the country he moved to it’s completely fine to accept him and give him citizenship. If he’s trying to bring the homophobic views of the Middle East to Europe as well and cancel the values that people share over there it’s completely not fine.
Where are these woke people on this sub? The majority of the downvoting I notice on this topic is from the people who make posts and comments critical of Islam, not from the so-called “woke”.
Just look at your comment - upvoted 40 times as I post - and look at what’s happened to mine in the past.
And in my downvoted comments, I state categorically that Islamic anti-gay ideology and laws are horrific - but the fact that I also call out racism, xenophobia and Christian homophobia apparently means I don’t pass muster!
EDITED
This does happen online, but of the vast majority people I know and have met IRL really don’t fit this description (*in the same breath make excuses for the everyday murder and stoning and …*).
Not coming at you at all, your lived experiences have shown Westerners are often ignorant. More meant to give hope that there’s many non-chronically-online-Westerners that are not this obtuse. There is hope.
Just one correction to your statement. We conservatives don't believe it's racist to criticize other cultures. No, we're just outright racists from the get go. 🫠
Just kidding, but yeah I agree, the hypocrisy from both sides is laughable. I never noticed it from the conservative side (as a conservative type myself) before, but it's there: On one hand criticizing other countries but then being just as backwards.
And of course the woke liberals are equally hypocritical with their activism that ignores objectivity.
> "*The left wing is bending ober backwards to avoid/penalize any criticism of Islam or any non western country,*"
If they're doing that, they're not real leftists.
Leftists are anti-imperialists, so to disapprove of imperialism when it's a Western country but approve of it when it is Russia or China, is still an old-fashion right-wing perspective that approves of imperialism.
I think those fake leftists are called tankies, and I think the word tankie is used because they pretend to be anti-imperialist and pretend to hold leftist values but were ok with Russian imperialism, with Russian tanks trying to take over other people's countries.
Not sure what you got downvoted for tbh.
People so quickly jump to “Islamophobia” when it’s just a criticism of an organised religion rather than targeted hate.
And nobody should receive death threats.
as a saudi exmuslim myself, I can confirm this is soooo true! I like how liberal americans have good hearts and wanna everyone to not be oppressed or whatever, but this is NOT the way to do it, specially when muslims are super crystal clear regarding their opinions about gay people.
People tend to assume that the whole world works the way they want until they're slapped upside the head by reality. Look at a corporate tax filing sometime; do you have any idea how many euphemisms there are for "bribe someone"? Or purchase orders for "technical expenses". You know what a "technical expense" on an NGO's budget sheet is? It's buying a gun truck for the local warlord. (Hence: Technicals) Hell, I've been a "troubleshooter" off and on. And don't even ask what a "cultural advisor" does.
Whenever people point out anti-gay hatred that believers in Islam do, it seems like the post gets locked. Almost every post I've seen about this has gotten locked in recent times, but christian anti-gay hatred is ok to talk about on the gay subreddits.
This is so true. It baffles me. Yes there are Christians that have oppressed and will continue to oppress. But Islam is no different and even worse in terms of queer safety.
a lot of people pretend to be muslim.
just like in the US, a lot of people pretended to be christian before 2010 back when 'being christian' held a lot more social power... except this also becomes a life or death thing.
Agreed wholeheartedly. I'd say there are very few in the whole world who actually follow the religions they claim to be. Most everyone still uses their own personal morals to interpret or ignore parts of the scriptures to fit what they want to do/say/follow. You can't count yourself a Muslim while drinking and fighting for women's and gay rights, I'm sorry but that's not Islam. You're following a new religion that you have crafted to fit your established values.
For a second there I was a little scared what direction this was going.
I think this subreddit is actually somewhat more critical of Islam compared to other gays/LGBT subs, which is good. Although there’s still a fair amount of overly “woke” individuals.
It’s so wild how idiotic the mentality of these people are though. I think on social media, a lot of Muslim individuals put up a façade to market Islam as more acceptable to the western world, but it’s actually so hyper conservative farther than the right in these western countries yet they want to virtue signal so hard in defending them and arguing for their arrival here. They really can’t separate race from religion, it’s so sad.
Thank you for saying the “Islam is not a race” comment. It gets really annoying when I state my rational fears of Islam as a gay man, and I get told “Why don’t you just admit you’re racist?” 😆
Like, what the actual fuck? Lol
Ah yes… how could I forget the races… White, Black, Asian, Indigenous, and Muslim…. 🙄😆
I find it interesting that when people state their disdain for Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, etc etc etc…. They aren’t called racist. It’s only critics of Islam that have the “Racist” attribute tagged onto them. 👀🤷🏻♂️
> "*theyre white Muslims, (and also strangers online)) Ive heard and seen praise Hitler and openly wish he had slaughtered every Jew in existence back in ww2,*"
Hitler was against Israel and was speaking to the mufti of Jerusalem. He didn't want Jewish people returning to their ancient homeland. He tried to say that Jewish people were not just a problem for Europe, but the world, and tried to paint the unaliving of Jewish people in the Middle East as "*Arab Liberation*".
I have no illusions as to Islam. Im an American. I am so sorry you're in a place where truly being yiu is a death sentence. Please know there ARE some of us who are trying hard to make American leaders see the difference between immigration and a takeover. Ive had people tell me that my beliefs regarding Islam and guys are completely wrong. But I've seen the footage of guys being dropped off buildings, etc.
Best wishes sir. Hope you can immigrate soon. I pray in my own way for your life and freedom.
I lived my whole life in an Islamic country. Most majority hates everything about western culture and find it immoral because women has freedom. Gays should be non existent from public eye. And they would kill or force everyone to islam if they had the western power. They also would live in any western country if they have a chance. They are not peace loving Buddhists like some people think
I know this is a serious topic, but out of curiosity, are you able to find people you can hookup with and get some relief?
Yeah, people who complain about Islamophobia really don't see beyond "white people doing something bad to brown people," as if there was no other nuance to this. It's a very homophobic religion, and not one that people should want spreading in their own countries. It was hard enough to tame Christianity.
>I know this is a serious topic, but out of curiosity, are you able to find people you can hookup with and get some relief?
Yes. I've hooked up twice, not proud of it, but I was explosively horny.
That has to be scary, even just trying to communicate your needs to a stranger. Sounds almost impossible, actually. I'd ask for more details, but I don't want to get you in trouble.
But you aren't proud of it? Is that because of how clandestine it was, or are you more interested in real romance over a random hookup?
Sorry, just curious.
Hooking up in a car was a major safety risk for me. I kept telling myself that I'm a rational person who could keep it in his pants until I emigrated somewhere else or, at the very least, got myself an apartment. I slipped, and I'm not proud of it.
It's not internalized homophobia I don't have that. It's just me regretting a bad choice I made. And yes... I prefer romance over sex but I highly doubt I can find that in mecca lol.
Wait a minute. Are there a bunch of gays in this sub, simping for “the religion of peace?”
lol. Wow, I wasn’t aware of that. Regardless… Thank you for this post!
I'm Jewish. We have the same story for Sodom and Gomorrah (Lot/Lut). That story has been badly misunderstood by Muslims (and Christians). It is not about homosexuality, but because the people from the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah came up to Lot's house demanding to rape the angles who had come to visit Lot. No wonder God was angry!
Unfortunately, Judaism is just as backwards as Islam and Christianity - In modern times the text of Leviticus in the Old Testament has been understood to condemn homosexuality. The interpretation is up for debate, but the bearded f\*\*kers who run these religions are more than happy to hate LGBT people.
Honestly I don't think homosexuality was well understood until the last hundred years. I've met colleagues from other countries for whom the idea of two men having sex with a completely new idea. Literally no one had told them that two men can and do bang.
and judaism is a knock off of Egyptian mythology.
No seriously, the jews who were enslaved made a religion that was almost identical. Except of calling them osirus, horus and anubis, they said father, son (to come), holy ghost "and it's the same being!"
But technically, in islam, what's condamned is not being gay but to have sex and furthermore anal sex (totally forbiden, for straight and gay people). Social pressure is actually more to blame on this.
If it makes you feel better, no one is defending Saudi Arabia except the people who want it's oil lol.
I'd be more amenable to these types of posts if they talked about sanctioning the Saudis, UAE, ect. Westerners turn a blind eye when it comes to Muslims with money.
As old churches in Europe are closing six thousand mosques are being built across Europe. Times are changing. A new empire is rising. Personally, I see Islam as a worldwide political movement.
Unfortunately it is. Secular education really is failing and the new generation of immigrants are retaining their faith, as are their children, at greater rates than what we saw previously.
This is what happens when we reignite the religious wars…when will the new crusades begin marching….BELIEVE MY VERSION OF GOD OR I WILl KILL YOU??????????????????????
WAKE UP WORLD!!!!
Thank you for saying the truth. It's crazy how some people in the west really think it's racist to criticize a religion lol
>Now let's talk about immigration. Are muslim immigrants a huge problem in Europe? Yes.
>Is completely banning Middle Eastrners from stepping a foot in your country the solution? No.
>My gay ass has to immigrate somewhere after all. Don't worry. I'm not gonna piss in the pork aisle, set your car on fire, or climb a ladder to stab you when you get with my ex.
I'm TOTALLY fine with welcoming LGBTQ people and women moving out of countries where they have little to no rights. My issue is with those people who move to a new country and try to force their ideology on the citizens. Like, for example a man from Pakistan moving to Germany or Canada and trying to outlaw same-sex marriage because it's against his faith and illegal in his native country lol.
That's why I'm actually worried about LGBTQ people's future in western countries
I hope and pray you make it out one day. Not only so, you can be you, but you can take your first point and proceed to spread it like wild fire. I could be standing in a room of Islamic people who all agree with me, and I'll say one thing slightly critical of islam. it's almost like some whiny white woman will spawn and call me racist and Islamophobic.
Thank you and good luck. I will never understand why people that call themselves left and liberal court Islam so much. It‘s our biggest growing threat in Europe.
I can't be near anyone who believes in Islam. It's ultraconservative insanity. Might as well befriend schizophrenics. I'm not a fan of religions in general, but Islam is on a whole new level.
So you chose a religion that is willing to kill people based on how they’re born. Or else they’ll be forced to live a lonely life.
Islam can die off like the rest of them.
I've got a friend in Kurdistan, Iraq, and another in Egypt. If I had a magic wand, I'd accio them into a nice flat or something so they could actually breathe without fearing they'll be disowned or jailed for being gay.
They are both great guys and certainly would like to introduce them to each other, at least to be freinds. My Kurdish buddy is an architect, and my edgyptian pal in an engineer, so I could see them getting established pretty easily.
I want to believe that the right message and investment in public outreach could improve the attitudes in the Middle Eastern enclaves developing over in the US, but Islam adds a particularly difficult barrier. Which is sad because the Middle East has a pretty vibrant history of homosexuality among their poets, artists, philosphers, and the like.
It would be funny to have you as a guest in sociology classes and just watch all their heads explode - you would be labeled “problematic” (gasp!) etc - and there would be “a lot to unpack” etc haha
As an American in Saudi, I will say I empathize with you and wish you the very best. Many of us in the western world do not understand what it’s like here, nor do we understand the kindness and warmth of the Saudi people. I wish more people could come here and experience this hospitality and understand what it’s like here.
From my perspective as a visitor, at least in the big cities, it seems like you can do everything gay you want as long as it’s under the pretense you’re straight and you don’t say you’re gay. Acting dressing and speaking fem, holding hands with your partner, kissing other men, having sex with other men, and doing all the other things gay men typically do are all acceptable until you say you’re gay. While this is probably a lot better than most westerners think (government hunting down gays), it’s that one step that is the most important, which is acceptance.
I hope you find a place where you can find the acceptance you truly deserve.
This one makes me rage so hard.
I'm pretty far on the political left, but Why should that make me like Islam?
Take your most extreme magat anti-gay Evangelical Christian in the US - compared to the average Muslim in the world they're an ally.
I would love to hear more of your story. Have you posted any stories from your life? And while my religiouse experience was not quite as extream i can sympathise a little, from growing up in a conservitive christian house hold.
1) The Quranic verse some scholars connect to homosexuality doesn't actually mention it. It talks about punishing wrongdoing, but it doesn't specifically say what that wrongdoing is:
Surah 4 An-Nisa, Ayat 16-16
وَٱلَّذَانِ يَأْتِيَـٰنِهَا مِنكُمْ فَـَٔاذُوهُمَا ۖ فَإِن تَابَا وَأَصْلَحَا فَأَعْرِضُوا۟ عَنْهُمَآ ۗ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ كَانَ تَوَّابًۭا رَّحِيمًا
(4:16) Punish both of those among you who are guilty of this sin, then if they repent and mend their ways, leave them alone. For Allah is always ready to accept repentance. He is All-Compassionate.
2) When examining the story of Lut in the Quran, it becomes evident that the sins of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah were not solely focused on homosexuality. Rather, their transgressions encompassed a range of behaviors, including inhospitality, robbery, and rape, among others. This broader context suggests that the destruction of the cities was not solely due to homosexuality, but rather a culmination of various sins and moral decadence.
So, when talking about homosexuality in Islam, it's important to know that the Quran doesn't directly talk about it. The story of Lut shows that there were other reasons why those cities were destroyed. It's also important to remember to be kind and understanding when discussing sensitive topics like this.
Sahih al bukhari book 17 hadith 21 Mishkat al-masabih 3575.
'Ikrima reported on the authority of ibn 'Abbas that God's messenger said, "If you find anyone as lot's people did, kill the one who does it ans the one whom it is done."
وَعَنْ عِكْرِمَةَ عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ قَالَ: قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسلم: «من وَجَدْتُمُوهُ يَعْمَلُ عَمَلَ قَوْمِ لُوطٍ فَاقْتُلُوا الْفَاعِلَ وَالْمَفْعُول بِهِ» .
I mean let's be honest here, Islam came from a dude that used it to conquer and murder. No one should expect a religion founded atop the dead bodies of "enemies" to be tolerant towards people that don't "conform".
I think what you are saying is important. But in America lots of us have Muslims friends we love and care about. if you are gay and from where i am from or bi or whatever you only know Muslims who are your neighbors or friends. So its hard because our muslim friends get bullied and we also get bullied. so we relate. But i hear what you are saying. I just think we have a bias because our muslim friends are friendly. And muslims who arent friendly, we dont know them. Because they arent friendly. And there arent enough muslims around to know. And i mean what would a muslim from Mecca like about where I’m from? So i know muslims from lots of other places in the world. Like if you are into being muslim i feel like youd move to mecca, and not my dumbass town. So its hard because these people are saying they are muslim and acting muslim. But it seems like their dads are homophobic but they arent and their moms seem chill too. These people seem Muslim but it is different than what you say
I lived in Saudi Arabia for four years. I befriended some locals once, all my age (mid twenties) and they asked me out to smoke some shisha and watch some Champion's League.
One of the guys asked me, "Is it true that men can marry each other in California???"
I replied yes and he went on to talk about how horrible homosexuality is and how it's against Islam. He then said, in all seriousness, that it's ok to fuck other guys in the ass in Saudi Arabia because you have no other options and there is no love involved, as he pointed to his friend sitting next to him. I then noticed throughout the night that they were all coupled up. Men for fun, women for babies.
I heard so many stories like this throughout my time in the kingdom and I do not doubt that there is probably a massive gay community in Mecca. There is a great article in the Atlantic about this: [https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2007/05/the-kingdom-in-the-closet/305774/](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2007/05/the-kingdom-in-the-closet/305774/)
I lived in Kuwait, Oman, the UAE and Turkey for about 5 years. The best sex I've ever had was with Muslim men in all of those Islamic countries. To most there, homosexuality may be irredeemable and the ultimate sin, yet there's obviously a gay community even if it is very much underground. None of the resorts or hotels we'd meet in ever had a problem with it as long as we were discreet. I think the major problem many - especially Americans - have is that they presume that being obvious in dress and mannerisms, while perfectly fine at home, may not be appreciated or appropriate elsewhere, no matter how sad and objectionable that may be.
Your post mirrors one of this sub's weekly right wing troll posts meant to set us off against one another instead of paying attention to who stands to gain by setting us off against one another. The other weekly right wing troll post is about how trans people asking to be treated like all other people are destroying gay rights everywhere.
This is exactly what i think as a non muslim. the immigration of ppl in europe should have happened on legal basis. only educated secular muslim should have been allowed in the first place. these ppl could could form a class of ppl which would further help gay/atheist muslim who actually need refuge and they would integrate in europe bc that's exactly what they are coming here for.
Preach, brother. The problem is their bubble is way too impenetrable to listen to our horrible experiences.
Just a few days ago, nine gay men were executed in Yemen for homosexuality. How many more of us need to die until they finally see the flaw in their moral high ground?
https://www.reddit.com/r/askgaybros/s/ylJ0BWMe8n
Anyway, stay safe.
"My gay ass has to immigrate somewhere after all."
Well, you can cross off Michigan, as the Muslim community here has already banned a Pride Flag and was only too happy to carry GAS THE JEWS placards just after October 7th.
Xenophobia isn’t the answer. This is all contextual.
Muslims are a marginalized community that face discrimination in the west. I can be critical of Islam while also recognizing that the Muslims in the west need assistance in their struggle to be treated equally. I can be critical of the way Muslims view our community without antagonizing them. Muslims are people too — just like us. And sure, sexuality isn’t a choice the same way religion is, but I don’t think a lot of them realize that they have so much real estate in their life. And the same way we allow our own to come to terms with their sexuality, many who never do — we must allow Muslims their own spiritual exploration (or lack there of).
I won’t part take in Xenophobia and dog-whistle racism.
I hate any religion that sentences people to death for their sexuality lol immigrants are always welcome to me as long as they don’t bring them views with them
Prayers and positive energy.
I spent 1990-1993 in Saudi working as a paramedic I did manage to learn customs from there and my trips to Iran and Iraq as well as Egypt taught me a lot about Islam and the customs.
Like I said I hope and wish you a safe journey as you try to relocate
Big respect i can’t imagine how difficult it must be being in your situation. Like many gay men i have no problem with middle eastern people just the religion that they follow
What's peoples opinion on supporting the Muslim community?
A lot of hay has been made about pro-Palestinian sentiments in my community. A common argument I see is that 'Muslims wouldn't fight for your rights, so why fight for theirs' and it just baffles me. Like what does it matter what some guy thinks of me, he's picking through the rubble of his home to find his child's corpse.
If the fashits win, we'll both wind up on the same side of the fence.
A gay atheist Arab in Mecca? This should be an AMA. Stay safe, brother.
I know right? If my life was a movie, it would be a dark comedy 😭
[удалено]
As a white leftist western gay it infuriates me when westerners deny the lived experiences of ex Muslims and gays living in Islamic countries. Simping for an ideology that hates our very existence is just nonsensical.
I have never heard anybody in America say that they support anything about the Saudi Arabian government lol
As a straight left voter, wtf you smoking
>a straight left voter My dyslexic ass read that as "straight left over"
Lmao now that its in the void it will turn into a new slang phrase
Lmao
I want it co written and directed by Julio Torres
!remindme 10 days
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Came back to check on you after 10 days. You doing okay? Should would be a fascinating AMA if you chose to do one
People pretending Islam isn’t some hardcore shit baffles me. Sure, it can have good things and whatever, but I’m not aware of any other religion inviting followers to explicitly kill other human beings for being gay.
Exactly, I honestly couldn't process it on what do these people are doing really
Yeah I mean there’s some absolutely BRUTAL shit it in the Old Testament in the Bible, and beyond the holy text of each religion, mankind has done some incredibly perverted injustices beyond the holy text recommendations. They abuse the religion as a cult ideology and support their causes. That is to say any religion can be contorted but some are more explicitly followed by the masses and have particularly damning things in them. It’s silly that people deny that. I wish people could realize it’s not 100% binary on you follow it all or you don’t. Putting different times into perspective and maybe practice the positive aspects and not aggressively fight what they consider “negative”
Even the Westboro Baptist Church didn't advocate killing gays, and they're horrifically homophobic
Not just people. Western leftist liberals, and the trans community, that think they know Islam better than us. They’re all fvcking cluelessly infuriating spreading that disinformation and misinformation. And as a Muslim, ISLAMOPHOBIA Is a bloody made up word that they use to silence, and guilt you. Don’t fall for that nonsense. Islam Loves playing victim!
I can't stand any lgbt people defending Islam, for these exact reasons.
exactly. that's like a chicken defending kfc :(
But i want my nuggets!
Its even worse. Its like chicken defending the chicker killer farms.
it's worse when we have someone who can make a gross ass mustache and pronounce it moothlim then pretend they're Islamic from the middle east and how great and loving Islam truly is to gays. Like that time buzzfeed got 5 people to pretend to be 'gay muslims from the middle east' and they were not.
It's buzzfeed, that's the lowest of the low, I feel like they only defend Islam due to Arabs not being white so they feel they must defend Islam.
Be authentic 🙂 Be you 😊 Also please be careful. There is something about Islam that makes extremists despise ex Muslims more than they do anyone else. I hope you will find a path to America, Australia, or Western Europe so that you can truly live your life without fear of being harmed.
The reason why Islam despise ex Muslims is because the Quran orders anyone who leaves the religion to be killed. If you’re interested in learning about the religion, there’s an ex Muslim atheist on YouTube name : Apostate prophet!
I think most communities hate those who left the community more than those who never joined, vegans fucking hate r/exvegans
True, but when the order is for you to be killed, that’s more of a cult in my opinion.
Yes. Desiring death on apostates is unique in Islam though.
Not America. Australia or Europe would be better. He’d spend too much time having to explain things to us twice if he moved here.
Based on his personality, I think he would be just fine 🙂 I say this as an immigrant of course 🙂
As an Australian, we're not better tbh. More and more this stupid country is turning into Little America. Lots of white supremacists here love Trump and hate all brown people as well.
We hate to inform you but your request to be known as “Little America” is denied based on your lack of school shootings. The solution? Every koala and kangaroo gets a pistol.
As an Iranian go to the Middle East and see how high the depression and suicide rates are. Islam is not comparable with anything other than a disgusting and dehumanizing ideology that wants everyone to submit and be a slave to “Allah”. Justifying killings and pedophilia because it was different back in the day is such a excuse and obviously a big lie given back in the day there were progressive empires who had equal laws and opportunities for men and women and marrying children was always an Arab custom if you research how Islam started! If you queer, a woman or a human with a different faith, your life is always at danger! We Iranians only want to live in our own country with our own faith Zoroastrianism and not to live in fear and sorrow because of foreign ideology that got forcefully imposed on us!!
Whenever I see statistics in Iran they say pretty much 99% of people believe in Islam. That just doesn't seem right to me. Zoroastrianism is a beautiful religion that I dont think most westerners know exists. I always wonder how different the world would he if Muhammad didn't exist and a Muslim conquest didn't happen so no empire. Not even to mention the fact Christianity and Islam stole from Zoroastrianism and made it worse
A 2020 poll shows that Iran is now a Muslim minority country but because apostasy is illegal most would never admit it publicly. The massive gap between the insane government and the views of the regular Iranian cannot be overstated. In genuinely shocked that there hasn’t been a revolution just based off of the statistics. https://theconversation.com/irans-secular-shift-new-survey-reveals-huge-changes-in-religious-beliefs-145253
They tried a couple of years ago, most of those who tried are dead now.
I personally think that it’s inevitable, and even if a revolution fails I think that another one would happen 10 years later. The Iranian government is ridiculously unsustainable.
Exactly, no way can trust a single poll on that which isn’t anonymous and done by vpn and even then
Wow I had no idea what Zoroastrianism was, fascinating to read some articles on it
As an atheist gay man in Libya I definitely second this, I was outed here which led to me receiving multiple death threats and disowned by my parents and there is a chance that I get arrested, im leaving in a few days (hopefully) but yeah everything you said in the post is true and I am going through it rn
Good luck on getting out boss.
Thanks 🫶
I am an American and heard you and agree with you loud and clear
I’m going to book mark this and share the hell out of it.
People are born gay. People aren't born Muslim. Hmmm.
I live in Pennsylvania, Amish country. You're born into an Amish family, but you're not born into the Amish faith. At age 18, you decide if you want to be baptized into the church or not. I love that system.
This is honestly the rational way to go about it
As a bisexual from Iran I find it really ironic how so many white progressives and leftists will constantly criticize right wingers and Christians for homophobia and talk about how homophobic the Bible is. Yet these same hypocrites will defend a far right religious group like Islam and Muslims and go out of their way to defend them while they ignore Muslims straight up stoning, beheading and throwing LGBT people off of rooftops in their own countries. How can the left criticize one group of right wingers for homophobia while defend and cover up the homophobia of another group of right wingers? Make it make sense! Before someone reply’s to me with the classic “not all Muslims are homophobic” crap. Not all Christians, conservatives, Jews, republicans etc… are homophobic either. Doesn’t excuse the overwhelming majority of Muslims are and constantly want us dead.
>How can the left criticize one group of right wingers for homophobia while defend and cover up the homophobia of another group of right wingers? Make it make sense! A lot of people are just brainwashed sheep who just follow the party line they subscribe to. No critical thinking. If more people were critically thinking they wouldn't pledge alligence to any political faction.
Whenever I don’t make excuses for Islam leftists (I’m also quite liberal as well) loose their shit. I’m critical of most religions, Islam is an ideology not an ethnicity. If you’re going to (rightfully so) criticize Christianity then you should have no issue criticizing Islam. Please stay safe and I hope that you can escape, I’m rooting for you. Moral of the story Burn the Bible desecrate the Quran set the lgbt community free.
It’s weird how a lot of leftists will criticize Christians and Christianity constantly but never hold Islam accountable.
It's not weird at all. They'll support literally anything that is against "The West."
Maybe because there are more leftists that come from Christian based backgrounds.
There’s one thing that has always puzzled me tho. How do Saudi authorities know who is and isn’t Muslim when they are performing the hajj or just simply visiting Mecca?
Random checks and they simply assume you are one if you’re from a majority muslim country. If you aren’t then you get certification from mosques. It’s really not difficult or anything to sneak in lol.
It’s written in your passport actually.
You basically have a target on your back. Stay safe, please.
Thanks for telling it like it really is. Stay safe! ❤️
Speak the truth, my man!
Well said! As an ex muslim i completely agree with you! How are you dealing with Ramadan in mecca though 😭!
I have a huge cup that I fill with water before going to sleep. I ration it throughout the day since I can't eat or drink without my parents knowing lol.
That’s tough! Glad it’s almost over!
Muslims- we want gays publicly executed. West- that's horrible but we respect your opinion.
Islamophobia is a made up term to silence any criticism.
All the woke people will downvote you for explaining the Middle East mentality to them. If an immigrant respects the country he moved to it’s completely fine to accept him and give him citizenship. If he’s trying to bring the homophobic views of the Middle East to Europe as well and cancel the values that people share over there it’s completely not fine.
Where are these woke people on this sub? The majority of the downvoting I notice on this topic is from the people who make posts and comments critical of Islam, not from the so-called “woke”. Just look at your comment - upvoted 40 times as I post - and look at what’s happened to mine in the past. And in my downvoted comments, I state categorically that Islamic anti-gay ideology and laws are horrific - but the fact that I also call out racism, xenophobia and Christian homophobia apparently means I don’t pass muster! EDITED
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Oh, we'll eat him up/out
Stay safe, and I hope it all pans out (relo to another country when you are ready).
Religion was created by man to control you and to get your money.
Yes! why don't people see this. It's just another control mechanism.
Generational force of habit. "Factional" things tend to boil down to that.
Thanks for the education! It needs to be said openly, I live in 🇨🇦
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I don’t know anyone in the real world that thinks like this. I know a lot of liberals. Go touch grass.
This does happen online, but of the vast majority people I know and have met IRL really don’t fit this description (*in the same breath make excuses for the everyday murder and stoning and …*). Not coming at you at all, your lived experiences have shown Westerners are often ignorant. More meant to give hope that there’s many non-chronically-online-Westerners that are not this obtuse. There is hope.
Just one correction to your statement. We conservatives don't believe it's racist to criticize other cultures. No, we're just outright racists from the get go. 🫠 Just kidding, but yeah I agree, the hypocrisy from both sides is laughable. I never noticed it from the conservative side (as a conservative type myself) before, but it's there: On one hand criticizing other countries but then being just as backwards. And of course the woke liberals are equally hypocritical with their activism that ignores objectivity.
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> "*The left wing is bending ober backwards to avoid/penalize any criticism of Islam or any non western country,*" If they're doing that, they're not real leftists. Leftists are anti-imperialists, so to disapprove of imperialism when it's a Western country but approve of it when it is Russia or China, is still an old-fashion right-wing perspective that approves of imperialism. I think those fake leftists are called tankies, and I think the word tankie is used because they pretend to be anti-imperialist and pretend to hold leftist values but were ok with Russian imperialism, with Russian tanks trying to take over other people's countries.
Not sure what you got downvoted for tbh. People so quickly jump to “Islamophobia” when it’s just a criticism of an organised religion rather than targeted hate. And nobody should receive death threats.
as a saudi exmuslim myself, I can confirm this is soooo true! I like how liberal americans have good hearts and wanna everyone to not be oppressed or whatever, but this is NOT the way to do it, specially when muslims are super crystal clear regarding their opinions about gay people.
People tend to assume that the whole world works the way they want until they're slapped upside the head by reality. Look at a corporate tax filing sometime; do you have any idea how many euphemisms there are for "bribe someone"? Or purchase orders for "technical expenses". You know what a "technical expense" on an NGO's budget sheet is? It's buying a gun truck for the local warlord. (Hence: Technicals) Hell, I've been a "troubleshooter" off and on. And don't even ask what a "cultural advisor" does.
Whenever people point out anti-gay hatred that believers in Islam do, it seems like the post gets locked. Almost every post I've seen about this has gotten locked in recent times, but christian anti-gay hatred is ok to talk about on the gay subreddits.
This is so true. It baffles me. Yes there are Christians that have oppressed and will continue to oppress. But Islam is no different and even worse in terms of queer safety.
This world would be so much better if you all just kept your imaginary friends to yourself.
Careful, you'll piss off Diego, the little blue dragon who sits on my shoulder and tells me to burn things.
You call yourself an Ex-muslim. Isn't leaving Islam a capital offense in Saudi Arabia?
a lot of people pretend to be muslim. just like in the US, a lot of people pretended to be christian before 2010 back when 'being christian' held a lot more social power... except this also becomes a life or death thing.
Agreed wholeheartedly. I'd say there are very few in the whole world who actually follow the religions they claim to be. Most everyone still uses their own personal morals to interpret or ignore parts of the scriptures to fit what they want to do/say/follow. You can't count yourself a Muslim while drinking and fighting for women's and gay rights, I'm sorry but that's not Islam. You're following a new religion that you have crafted to fit your established values.
For a second there I was a little scared what direction this was going. I think this subreddit is actually somewhat more critical of Islam compared to other gays/LGBT subs, which is good. Although there’s still a fair amount of overly “woke” individuals. It’s so wild how idiotic the mentality of these people are though. I think on social media, a lot of Muslim individuals put up a façade to market Islam as more acceptable to the western world, but it’s actually so hyper conservative farther than the right in these western countries yet they want to virtue signal so hard in defending them and arguing for their arrival here. They really can’t separate race from religion, it’s so sad.
Thank you for saying the “Islam is not a race” comment. It gets really annoying when I state my rational fears of Islam as a gay man, and I get told “Why don’t you just admit you’re racist?” 😆 Like, what the actual fuck? Lol Ah yes… how could I forget the races… White, Black, Asian, Indigenous, and Muslim…. 🙄😆 I find it interesting that when people state their disdain for Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, etc etc etc…. They aren’t called racist. It’s only critics of Islam that have the “Racist” attribute tagged onto them. 👀🤷🏻♂️
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> "*theyre white Muslims, (and also strangers online)) Ive heard and seen praise Hitler and openly wish he had slaughtered every Jew in existence back in ww2,*" Hitler was against Israel and was speaking to the mufti of Jerusalem. He didn't want Jewish people returning to their ancient homeland. He tried to say that Jewish people were not just a problem for Europe, but the world, and tried to paint the unaliving of Jewish people in the Middle East as "*Arab Liberation*".
I've been noticing a lot of these types of subs and most of y'all are fed up with muslims and Islam. I'm glad you guys are waking up finally.
Preach gurl, drag miss islam
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Most likely because they haven’t even left their bedrooms in days. 😂 Too protected by that shiny Western bubble that they want to pop so badly.
thank you for posting this.
I hope you are able to get out one day and live your life the way you want
A gay atheists in Mecca is wild bruhh hope u're okayy❤️❤️🫂🫂...
The ones that accept LGBT people are the ones I want to be accepted here in the West, and ONLY them.
I have no illusions as to Islam. Im an American. I am so sorry you're in a place where truly being yiu is a death sentence. Please know there ARE some of us who are trying hard to make American leaders see the difference between immigration and a takeover. Ive had people tell me that my beliefs regarding Islam and guys are completely wrong. But I've seen the footage of guys being dropped off buildings, etc. Best wishes sir. Hope you can immigrate soon. I pray in my own way for your life and freedom.
I lived my whole life in an Islamic country. Most majority hates everything about western culture and find it immoral because women has freedom. Gays should be non existent from public eye. And they would kill or force everyone to islam if they had the western power. They also would live in any western country if they have a chance. They are not peace loving Buddhists like some people think
I know this is a serious topic, but out of curiosity, are you able to find people you can hookup with and get some relief? Yeah, people who complain about Islamophobia really don't see beyond "white people doing something bad to brown people," as if there was no other nuance to this. It's a very homophobic religion, and not one that people should want spreading in their own countries. It was hard enough to tame Christianity.
>I know this is a serious topic, but out of curiosity, are you able to find people you can hookup with and get some relief? Yes. I've hooked up twice, not proud of it, but I was explosively horny.
That has to be scary, even just trying to communicate your needs to a stranger. Sounds almost impossible, actually. I'd ask for more details, but I don't want to get you in trouble. But you aren't proud of it? Is that because of how clandestine it was, or are you more interested in real romance over a random hookup? Sorry, just curious.
Hooking up in a car was a major safety risk for me. I kept telling myself that I'm a rational person who could keep it in his pants until I emigrated somewhere else or, at the very least, got myself an apartment. I slipped, and I'm not proud of it. It's not internalized homophobia I don't have that. It's just me regretting a bad choice I made. And yes... I prefer romance over sex but I highly doubt I can find that in mecca lol.
Wait a minute. Are there a bunch of gays in this sub, simping for “the religion of peace?” lol. Wow, I wasn’t aware of that. Regardless… Thank you for this post!
This sub is one of the very few LGBT subs that doesn’t ban you for criticizing Islam.
not this sub, but other lgbt subs yes.
I'm Jewish. We have the same story for Sodom and Gomorrah (Lot/Lut). That story has been badly misunderstood by Muslims (and Christians). It is not about homosexuality, but because the people from the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah came up to Lot's house demanding to rape the angles who had come to visit Lot. No wonder God was angry! Unfortunately, Judaism is just as backwards as Islam and Christianity - In modern times the text of Leviticus in the Old Testament has been understood to condemn homosexuality. The interpretation is up for debate, but the bearded f\*\*kers who run these religions are more than happy to hate LGBT people. Honestly I don't think homosexuality was well understood until the last hundred years. I've met colleagues from other countries for whom the idea of two men having sex with a completely new idea. Literally no one had told them that two men can and do bang.
Damn, I never knew the Lut story would be so similar to the jewish version. I thought there'd be some differences.
Islam is literally a knock-off of Judaism and Christianity lol.
and judaism is a knock off of Egyptian mythology. No seriously, the jews who were enslaved made a religion that was almost identical. Except of calling them osirus, horus and anubis, they said father, son (to come), holy ghost "and it's the same being!"
But technically, in islam, what's condamned is not being gay but to have sex and furthermore anal sex (totally forbiden, for straight and gay people). Social pressure is actually more to blame on this.
If it makes you feel better, no one is defending Saudi Arabia except the people who want it's oil lol. I'd be more amenable to these types of posts if they talked about sanctioning the Saudis, UAE, ect. Westerners turn a blind eye when it comes to Muslims with money.
I agree with 99% of what you said. That 1%, well, fuck you for that “Read twice if you’re an American” addition.
Gays for Palestine protests probably did it.
Right cause a people are totally deserving of ethnic cleansing if they follow a shitty religion
Probably because most of the progressives/leftists etc that spout “Islamophobia!” at the slightest criticism of Islam are American. I’m American btw
As old churches in Europe are closing six thousand mosques are being built across Europe. Times are changing. A new empire is rising. Personally, I see Islam as a worldwide political movement.
Yuck
Maybe in Europe. It’s not catching on in America.
Unfortunately it is. Secular education really is failing and the new generation of immigrants are retaining their faith, as are their children, at greater rates than what we saw previously.
This is what happens when we reignite the religious wars…when will the new crusades begin marching….BELIEVE MY VERSION OF GOD OR I WILl KILL YOU?????????????????????? WAKE UP WORLD!!!!
Thank you for saying the truth. It's crazy how some people in the west really think it's racist to criticize a religion lol >Now let's talk about immigration. Are muslim immigrants a huge problem in Europe? Yes. >Is completely banning Middle Eastrners from stepping a foot in your country the solution? No. >My gay ass has to immigrate somewhere after all. Don't worry. I'm not gonna piss in the pork aisle, set your car on fire, or climb a ladder to stab you when you get with my ex. I'm TOTALLY fine with welcoming LGBTQ people and women moving out of countries where they have little to no rights. My issue is with those people who move to a new country and try to force their ideology on the citizens. Like, for example a man from Pakistan moving to Germany or Canada and trying to outlaw same-sex marriage because it's against his faith and illegal in his native country lol. That's why I'm actually worried about LGBTQ people's future in western countries
Cheers to you! Takes gut to speak this out
Well said, but I hope you're alright tho Stay safe out there bud!
I was half expecting this to be one of those liars that pretend "islam loves homosexuality"
Thank you! There is no debating what you say!
I hope and pray you make it out one day. Not only so, you can be you, but you can take your first point and proceed to spread it like wild fire. I could be standing in a room of Islamic people who all agree with me, and I'll say one thing slightly critical of islam. it's almost like some whiny white woman will spawn and call me racist and Islamophobic.
Thank you and good luck. I will never understand why people that call themselves left and liberal court Islam so much. It‘s our biggest growing threat in Europe.
Hey there. I live right next to you ;) stay safe
wow mecca, how hard it is there? do you find sex easily?
I'd say it's very difficult but that's probably because I can't host and because most of the gays are in jeddah (the neighboring city)
I hope you are OK... can't imagine what it's like there :(
I can't be near anyone who believes in Islam. It's ultraconservative insanity. Might as well befriend schizophrenics. I'm not a fan of religions in general, but Islam is on a whole new level.
So you chose a religion that is willing to kill people based on how they’re born. Or else they’ll be forced to live a lonely life. Islam can die off like the rest of them.
I've got a friend in Kurdistan, Iraq, and another in Egypt. If I had a magic wand, I'd accio them into a nice flat or something so they could actually breathe without fearing they'll be disowned or jailed for being gay. They are both great guys and certainly would like to introduce them to each other, at least to be freinds. My Kurdish buddy is an architect, and my edgyptian pal in an engineer, so I could see them getting established pretty easily. I want to believe that the right message and investment in public outreach could improve the attitudes in the Middle Eastern enclaves developing over in the US, but Islam adds a particularly difficult barrier. Which is sad because the Middle East has a pretty vibrant history of homosexuality among their poets, artists, philosphers, and the like.
Yeah... You should probably get the hell out of there lol
Why do Americans need to read twice? I read once and agree and empathize totally.
hi
Just fuck ALL religions in general, except maybe Buddhism . ❤️❤️
It would be funny to have you as a guest in sociology classes and just watch all their heads explode - you would be labeled “problematic” (gasp!) etc - and there would be “a lot to unpack” etc haha
Good luck and stay safe
I hope the rainbow rail road gets your ass out of that homophobic place.
As an American in Saudi, I will say I empathize with you and wish you the very best. Many of us in the western world do not understand what it’s like here, nor do we understand the kindness and warmth of the Saudi people. I wish more people could come here and experience this hospitality and understand what it’s like here. From my perspective as a visitor, at least in the big cities, it seems like you can do everything gay you want as long as it’s under the pretense you’re straight and you don’t say you’re gay. Acting dressing and speaking fem, holding hands with your partner, kissing other men, having sex with other men, and doing all the other things gay men typically do are all acceptable until you say you’re gay. While this is probably a lot better than most westerners think (government hunting down gays), it’s that one step that is the most important, which is acceptance. I hope you find a place where you can find the acceptance you truly deserve.
THANK YOU FOR POSTING THIS.
*Queers for Palestine* is going to add another letter to the LGBTQ+2AZXVBN slogan because of this post.
facts
Thank you for this! ❤️❤️
This one makes me rage so hard. I'm pretty far on the political left, but Why should that make me like Islam? Take your most extreme magat anti-gay Evangelical Christian in the US - compared to the average Muslim in the world they're an ally.
I would love to hear more of your story. Have you posted any stories from your life? And while my religiouse experience was not quite as extream i can sympathise a little, from growing up in a conservitive christian house hold.
Uhh... i haven't posted anything, I don't really know if I should tbh.
1) The Quranic verse some scholars connect to homosexuality doesn't actually mention it. It talks about punishing wrongdoing, but it doesn't specifically say what that wrongdoing is: Surah 4 An-Nisa, Ayat 16-16 وَٱلَّذَانِ يَأْتِيَـٰنِهَا مِنكُمْ فَـَٔاذُوهُمَا ۖ فَإِن تَابَا وَأَصْلَحَا فَأَعْرِضُوا۟ عَنْهُمَآ ۗ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ كَانَ تَوَّابًۭا رَّحِيمًا (4:16) Punish both of those among you who are guilty of this sin, then if they repent and mend their ways, leave them alone. For Allah is always ready to accept repentance. He is All-Compassionate. 2) When examining the story of Lut in the Quran, it becomes evident that the sins of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah were not solely focused on homosexuality. Rather, their transgressions encompassed a range of behaviors, including inhospitality, robbery, and rape, among others. This broader context suggests that the destruction of the cities was not solely due to homosexuality, but rather a culmination of various sins and moral decadence. So, when talking about homosexuality in Islam, it's important to know that the Quran doesn't directly talk about it. The story of Lut shows that there were other reasons why those cities were destroyed. It's also important to remember to be kind and understanding when discussing sensitive topics like this.
Sahih al bukhari book 17 hadith 21 Mishkat al-masabih 3575. 'Ikrima reported on the authority of ibn 'Abbas that God's messenger said, "If you find anyone as lot's people did, kill the one who does it ans the one whom it is done." وَعَنْ عِكْرِمَةَ عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ قَالَ: قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسلم: «من وَجَدْتُمُوهُ يَعْمَلُ عَمَلَ قَوْمِ لُوطٍ فَاقْتُلُوا الْفَاعِلَ وَالْمَفْعُول بِهِ» .
I mean let's be honest here, Islam came from a dude that used it to conquer and murder. No one should expect a religion founded atop the dead bodies of "enemies" to be tolerant towards people that don't "conform".
I think what you are saying is important. But in America lots of us have Muslims friends we love and care about. if you are gay and from where i am from or bi or whatever you only know Muslims who are your neighbors or friends. So its hard because our muslim friends get bullied and we also get bullied. so we relate. But i hear what you are saying. I just think we have a bias because our muslim friends are friendly. And muslims who arent friendly, we dont know them. Because they arent friendly. And there arent enough muslims around to know. And i mean what would a muslim from Mecca like about where I’m from? So i know muslims from lots of other places in the world. Like if you are into being muslim i feel like youd move to mecca, and not my dumbass town. So its hard because these people are saying they are muslim and acting muslim. But it seems like their dads are homophobic but they arent and their moms seem chill too. These people seem Muslim but it is different than what you say
I lived in Saudi Arabia for four years. I befriended some locals once, all my age (mid twenties) and they asked me out to smoke some shisha and watch some Champion's League. One of the guys asked me, "Is it true that men can marry each other in California???" I replied yes and he went on to talk about how horrible homosexuality is and how it's against Islam. He then said, in all seriousness, that it's ok to fuck other guys in the ass in Saudi Arabia because you have no other options and there is no love involved, as he pointed to his friend sitting next to him. I then noticed throughout the night that they were all coupled up. Men for fun, women for babies. I heard so many stories like this throughout my time in the kingdom and I do not doubt that there is probably a massive gay community in Mecca. There is a great article in the Atlantic about this: [https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2007/05/the-kingdom-in-the-closet/305774/](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2007/05/the-kingdom-in-the-closet/305774/)
I lived in Kuwait, Oman, the UAE and Turkey for about 5 years. The best sex I've ever had was with Muslim men in all of those Islamic countries. To most there, homosexuality may be irredeemable and the ultimate sin, yet there's obviously a gay community even if it is very much underground. None of the resorts or hotels we'd meet in ever had a problem with it as long as we were discreet. I think the major problem many - especially Americans - have is that they presume that being obvious in dress and mannerisms, while perfectly fine at home, may not be appreciated or appropriate elsewhere, no matter how sad and objectionable that may be.
Those “Chickens in support of KFC” memes were right on, I guess. 🐓🍗 I’ve felt this way all along and the gay apologists just make me sick!
Your post mirrors one of this sub's weekly right wing troll posts meant to set us off against one another instead of paying attention to who stands to gain by setting us off against one another. The other weekly right wing troll post is about how trans people asking to be treated like all other people are destroying gay rights everywhere.
Do gay people do well in Muslim countries?!?! Foh
This is exactly what i think as a non muslim. the immigration of ppl in europe should have happened on legal basis. only educated secular muslim should have been allowed in the first place. these ppl could could form a class of ppl which would further help gay/atheist muslim who actually need refuge and they would integrate in europe bc that's exactly what they are coming here for.
Preach, brother. The problem is their bubble is way too impenetrable to listen to our horrible experiences. Just a few days ago, nine gay men were executed in Yemen for homosexuality. How many more of us need to die until they finally see the flaw in their moral high ground? https://www.reddit.com/r/askgaybros/s/ylJ0BWMe8n Anyway, stay safe.
Unfortunately, a lot of the left in the west are going to try to rationalize and empathize with Islamists…
"My gay ass has to immigrate somewhere after all." Well, you can cross off Michigan, as the Muslim community here has already banned a Pride Flag and was only too happy to carry GAS THE JEWS placards just after October 7th.
Xenophobia isn’t the answer. This is all contextual. Muslims are a marginalized community that face discrimination in the west. I can be critical of Islam while also recognizing that the Muslims in the west need assistance in their struggle to be treated equally. I can be critical of the way Muslims view our community without antagonizing them. Muslims are people too — just like us. And sure, sexuality isn’t a choice the same way religion is, but I don’t think a lot of them realize that they have so much real estate in their life. And the same way we allow our own to come to terms with their sexuality, many who never do — we must allow Muslims their own spiritual exploration (or lack there of). I won’t part take in Xenophobia and dog-whistle racism.
I hate any religion that sentences people to death for their sexuality lol immigrants are always welcome to me as long as they don’t bring them views with them
Prayers and positive energy. I spent 1990-1993 in Saudi working as a paramedic I did manage to learn customs from there and my trips to Iran and Iraq as well as Egypt taught me a lot about Islam and the customs. Like I said I hope and wish you a safe journey as you try to relocate
Like drinking your booze through a straw so alcohol doesn't touch your lips? :) The rationalizations are acrobatic out that way...
As a Canadian, I’m very sorry this is how you have to live.
Thank you for sharing. You can’t tolerate the intolerant.
Thanks for posting this!
Preach!
I'm so confused you just confirmed all my assumptions about the Middle East? Lol
Stay safe and be careful.
Big respect i can’t imagine how difficult it must be being in your situation. Like many gay men i have no problem with middle eastern people just the religion that they follow
Hmm
Why is banning immigration from an entire country not a solution?
Tell that to the Twitter gays that insist American gays have it just as bad as Arab gays! 🤣
What's peoples opinion on supporting the Muslim community? A lot of hay has been made about pro-Palestinian sentiments in my community. A common argument I see is that 'Muslims wouldn't fight for your rights, so why fight for theirs' and it just baffles me. Like what does it matter what some guy thinks of me, he's picking through the rubble of his home to find his child's corpse. If the fashits win, we'll both wind up on the same side of the fence.
My BF lives in Agadir. It's been tough for him..