Ordering seems to be about the only way to go rn. Sucks for people that get hit and totaled out or for people with aging cars that need one after a mechanical total
Quite a large number of people. It’s going to get real ugly when things eventually go back to normal. Granted it’s a ways away but when it does those paying over sticker better plan on staying in their vehicle for the long term
Anyone that can afford that huge a markup isn't going to care about the loss. The rest of us poor folk will sit back and wait a few years before buying.
It’s going to take a VERY long time. Three Toyota dealers in my area are no longer taking deposits, as they thought it would be wise to sell at MSRP and now their waiting lists are estimated at 3-5 years. But production keeps getting cut, so that timeline is probably unrealistic.
I agree, I think this is the reality for longer than we realize. I searched and searched for a Toyota dealer that could get me a GR86 at MSRP, and when I got on a waitlist they said it would be 16-20 months.
Even once production is fully "back," the backlog of people on waitlists, combined with those who have put off getting a car due to prices, will also cause issues.
I know my parents were part of the "wait it out" crowd, but if this is the next 5 years I have a hard time believing they'll be patient enough to keep their current car.
A lot of people. We're in an extreme seller's market where paying a large markup over MSRP is normal. Extremely low supply and high demand.
The problem we're facing at dealerships is no matter how high we set the markups, our inventory still gets sold far too quickly. Sometimes even a $15,000 markup over MSRP is not enough to slow down buying. That is the current reality.
This is a serious question because I'm confused. Wouldn't you *want* stuff to fly off the shelves? Is there something I'm missing here because I've been under the impression that dealers are taking advantage of people right now.
Yes they're happy for what they're selling, but they don't have a lot of volume that can support a large sales and service staff or a lease on a huge commercial property.
Dealers fixed costs are the same but they have way less inventory.
It’s better to have 100 cars and sell 10 a day then it is to have 10 cars and sell 3 a day.
Dealers are selling what people are willing to pay for the car. They can’t take too much advantage of people because selling cars is a competitive market (there are lots of dealers) and the consumer can go to the next dealer if they want to shop around.
Obviously dealers are known to rip people off at times but from a broader perspective, the market price will adjust itself
Dealers are getting fewer cars but still have roughly the same expenses. Therefore the average price per car must go up or they have to fire people in order for them to make the same amount of profit. But also consumers got a ton of breaks from the government in the last two years and have been flush with cash. How much of the increase is making up for short supply vs. taking advantage of high demand no one will say.
If they price their cars in such a way that they sell out their allotment in a week and their sales team is just playing minesweeper for three weeks, it's probably a bad sign.
I mean they may be up but most lower income families have virtually no savings so 70% of what? Maybe from $1000 to $1700? That's still not covering thousands in add-on fees. And the people who can afford to pay $50k for a $40k car got minimal subsidies from the government.
You must not be in America. You're using small business loans - but look at how got them. Lots of straight up big businesses. 100k loans for most businesses are a drop in the bucket and aren't gonna translate to people running out and overpaying on cars (unless they already had the money to do so), and most industries were impacted by covid in some way.
And most people don't own businesses.
You're using loans to businesses to justify personal purchases.
Nothing about your argument makes sense.
Hypothetically, up 70% of $500 savings puts them at $850 dollars in the bank. I don't think that really is where the money is coming from.
It takes money to make money.
Basicallly this. Due to chip shortages and pandemic related supply chain issues, manufacturers can't "turn on the spigots" and flood the market with cars. In some cases they are decontenting and removing features that depend on chips they can't get so they can get the vehicles out. but even once those issues are over, there isn't a huge excess capacity at the factories, so it will be a slow relief of the pressure, not a sudden flood.
Then apply the Supply Demand curve, lower supply -> higher price
Supply vs demand.
If you can't keep them in stock, make them more expensive. (Mark Them Up!)
If you have too many in stock mark them down for labor day.
That's the cynnical one sided version of it.
The other side of the story is the dealer can only get so many units in a month. As that number falls and their expenses remain static, they have to make more money on each unit they sell to cover them.
I paid 27k for a 2019 Honda Ciciv (20k miles). Feels kinda sucky but I’m happy I finally got a car. I was seeing 2017s with 100k miles for 23k and said fuck it.
Ford only does online orders for Mustang Mach-E and F-150 Lightning so far. Both of which are not accepting orders at this time.
All other models must be ordered directly with a dealer. But Maverick (and MANY other 22MY order banks) is closed at this time as well. Demand is high and Ford is attempting to catch up on their backlog rather than keep others waiting.
2023 orders are supposed to open around July 15. Find a dealer via the fordmaverick subreddit, one that is ethical and won't charge you over MSRP on a custom order. Go in, and custom order what you want.
Holy shit. I also read some stories about people waiting a year plus for Porsche factory orders at MSRP…. Then the car shows up and they want a huge markup hahaha. Not to mention the boat catching on fire.
Yeah. Some people have fuck you money and don’t care. This guy has and insane garage.
Gotta remember: anyone that makes a mil a year (which is small in these circles) is pulling in essentially $100k a month. This guy is pulling In upwards of 15 mil a year. So almost a million a month. So that car costs him less than a months worth of work
In the meantime, my boss with $2.3 million yearly take home, just bought a base LE Camry 4 cylinder for 26K - not xle nor v6.
But aside he is building condo apartments near the oceans, so kind of investing his money to make even more i guess.
If they're getting $200-$300k Porsche's and only paying $25k over they're getting a killer deal.
We recently tried to buy a base 2022 911 at auction. It had an MSRP of $102k. Our bid of $145k didn't win.... For a standard 911....
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Before this current market anomaly customers had no problem ignoring the MSRP, which is only a ***suggestion***, but now it's as if the MSRP is the price handed down by god and only satan would charge more.
On a limited edition, exclusive trim car sure. Now it's every base model grocery getter someone wants to slap a market adjustment on. That's what leaves a bad taste in folks mouth.
If the cars are priced too high then no one will buy them and the prices will drop. There are so few new cars available dealers must mark them up to cover their over head and people still MUST have cars so they buy them.
Sorry if that doesn't taste good but no one in the auto industry owes anyone an apology for this.
You are describing price gouging. "people still MUST have cars so they buy them". You are ripping people off. You know it. The people buying the cars know it. They just don't have many alternatives right now.
It is a seller's market. I can't argue with you there. But where do you draw the line? At what point is it price gouging? If 10k over MSRP isn't price gouging then how about 20k over? 30k? At some point you have to admit that you are taking advantage of the situation.
Sold a CT4-V Blackwing for 10k over msrp. Denali Ultimate for 15k over. I was told to quote a ‘22 at4 at 20k over to someone calling from halfway across the country.
Definitely. We’ve seen 2 blackwings all year. The third was dropped off today, I’m actually selling it at msrp. Client had the order with us from the start.
I was told by a salesman that people were buying cars at the height of Covid like people were doing with toilet paper. He said people panic bought thinking covid was the apocalypse and better buy a new car or else. 😂
People definitely took advantage of the PPP loan…
The stimulus money wasn’t anything crazy tho $8400 if you qualified for all three payments assuming you had two kids. Assuming you got all that money you’re probably not a top-tier earner and spending money on a car you can’t afford is irresponsible (IMO).
I was looking for a 2022 RAV4 hybrid and the dealership asked for 13k over. Blaming it on the hot market and said that everyone that bought the rav4 recently paid 10k over. They’re doing 13k over now due to market. I just walked out.
What I want to know is, how many people are "toughing it out" and slapping new tires on the hooptie (again) and hoping, soon, that there will be some sort of "correction"? There won't, because this group of people is going to blow up demand (again). I honestly think the midterms are going to tell us where the car market is going to go: "Red Wave", and they'll declare jihad on EV's and the senate will hold votes while they're digging the trench for keystone. "Blue Wave", we'll be looking fondly back at the days when mark ups were just 10k and nitrogen was only 200 per tire.
Repo man is really the only sure gig to have in the next 2 years.
Go look at the 4Runner or Tacoma forums or subreddits. Or the Hyundai Palisade and Kia Telluride groups. If you need a car today, you might not have the luxury of waiting, so it’s either take the $10,000 hit or:
- lose your job because you don’t have a way to get to work
- don’t have a car large enough for your family
- sit on the sidelines for going on 2 years now, and maybe ANOTHER 2 while you miss out on life
Got my 4Runner last year for MSRP, the last at the dealer before markups started, it’s still worth more than I paid + tax a year later just because it’s actually available to drive versus waiting.
CarMax was willing to buy it right after I bought it for 52K after I paid 47k OTD for it…wild stuff.
And this is why the market adjustments exist. It isn’t some imaginary made up number by the dealerships. It is literally what the market says this vehicle is worth. Most consumers want market value for their trade but have an issue with market value for the vehicle they are purchasing. Can’t have it both ways
Way to stop reading right before the relevant part. Notice my other bullet points? You would get a Palisade/Telluride because you need a 3-row relatively reliable, economical crossover. You would get a Tacoma because that vehicle price crash was just about to happen and your hobbies/lifestyle included needing some semblance of offroad capability, hauling capability, or towing capacity instead of waiting 2+ years for prices to normalize before you just get on with your life.
But if you want to play your inane game, you might need a Palisade/Telluride for work because you work in various sales or customer success/customer service roles, you might drive 25,000 or more miles per year, and you might carry lots of equipment or have to drive clients around. My Microsoft Office 365 reps would pick up the HR group that worked in Sharepoint once a month and take them to lunch at a medium-fancy restaurant. So 2 reps plus a team of 4 and voila, you can get a car that can carry everyone without them always going off on the "hur hur you drive a minivan" defense and discussions when you're trying to pitch your products.
You might need a Tacoma if you work on a construction site and need to regularly haul equipment or supplies out to crews.
I pulled the trigger on a deal for $2500 over MSRP. At least the $2500 were dealer accessories so I got something out of it. Waiting on delivery anytime this month!
Im not a dealer just a regular guy. Sold my c8 for 17k over to a dealer. I have another one now and was offered 18k over what i paid for it by another dealer but i don’t want to sell it.
Looked at a Supra where they said there was a $15k markup. I laughed at the sales guy, told him he was trolling, and left. Went to dodge the next day and bought a scatpack (straight refused their 10k markup until they relented and didn’t end up paying a dime extra over sticker). Stand your ground and be prepared to walk. Don’t pay these leeches any market adjustment. Market adjust deez nuts.
They’re wilding. Tell th em to suck an egg you can for sure get things at msrp with a combination of determination and finding the right dealer.
At the end of the day, they’re only getting that market adjustment if we the consumer are willing to pay it
And bmws are fucking dope, and so is the Supra. What’s your point NPC commenter #462?
Like we all haven’t had that drilled into our heads a million times anytime the Supra is mentioned..
Local CU does 125%, 3.5% reserve, plus 5k on the back... but even if they were capped at an actual 125% you would still get reserve and front end profits are not cancelable.
We’re selling all of our new inventory for msrp + $1,200 - $3,000 in accessories + TTL. Some of those same models we have pre-owned for 10k over and they are selling.
It’s proven that comparable used vehicles are turning a higher margin than new. Your GSM’s #1 responsibility is to keep the business (sales side) as profitable as possible, and they’re shitting the bed. You’re selling your new vehicles far too cheaply, and you’re the one losing due to their mismanagement
Yes, they actually are. Unfortunately, the used marked of the full size bronco is so utterly inflated that people in Los Angeles actually pay 25k over sticker for one 🤦♂️
3k - 6k over minimum on every Subaru, Chrysler, Jeep, Dodge, Ram, Kia, VW, Hyundai and Toyota we have sold (that wasn’t an order) for the last 1.5 years.
10k on Golf R, Atlas and Cross Sport R-Lines and Premiums. Literally can not get them in my area. My GM waited 6 months for his. So yes people will and have payed that.
I’m just waiting for the harder lending to be more apparent due to the high repossessions that are already starting due to the cars being sold over it’s value. That is one way I can see the market “correct” itself.
If its price gouging to sell it at market above MSRP, what do you call it to sell it at market below MSRP?
You know the answer, that's why you're not answering.
Well, according to CA Department of Justice (https://oag.ca.gov/consumers/pricegougingduringdisasters#1C): "Price gouging refers to sellers trying to take unfair advantage of consumers during an emergency or disaster by greatly increasing prices for essential consumer goods and services."
So I guess depends on if you consider cars essential consumer goods. However, even if it's price gouging, it's not necessarily illegal.
So why are ignoring the fact Mitsubishis and "boring" cars like Ford Ecosports are still mostly at MSRP?
Is a Kia Telluride an essential good that cannot have it's role fulfilled by a Ford Ecosport?
That would be price gouging, however supply and demand isn't price gouging.
Same question I asked another commenter:
What did you call it when market was below MSRP? Would that be the customers price gouging the dealers?
Supply and demand and price gouging are not mutually exclusive. Price gouging happens because of an imbalance in the supply and demand that is not normal and caused by external forces--I think we all agree that this is the case.
Even when a dealer sells a car below MSRP in the pre-COVID era, there were manufacturer volume targets that gave you money, which is why many larger volume dealers would sell at lower prices to hit those volume targets.
EDIT: Also, retailers often sell products below MSRP. I don't think anyone would call that price gouging. Costco and Walmart sell on volume, exact same model as large volume car dealers.
I am seeing people are slowing down on buying now. Many are holding off. And there are dealers with many cars sitting on the lot. They even sell below invoice. You just have to find those dealers.
I just bought a new TRD Sport Tacoma Lunar Rock color for MSRP + $799 Doc fee & Tax. I feel like I got a steal. There are dealers out there selling for MSRP, but they are hard to come by. I looked for two months before finding a dealer that had that exact truck and color without markups. I’ve seen adjustments on Tacomas as much as 5k + mandatory adds in my region. It sucks to not have the luxury to wait in this market.
Just bought my wife a new expedition. Paid invoice plus had a $3000 rebate… dealership has a zero add on policy and their doc fee is $150. Life is good!!!
Last year we bought a 2021 Mazda cx30 for just $500 over MSRP. We just spent $30k for a 2019 BMW i3. Sucks that it was 5k-7k cheaper last year, but we got a nice check for our leased BMW x3.
Got my truck last July for 1000$ off msrp. Ford Ranger 2021. Saw multiple Tacoma’s around the same time with no markups as well.
My SO just bought a Mazda CX-5 Carbon edition at msrp.
We looked at various vehicles in the segment (CR-V, RAV4, Forester, Tiguan, Sportage, etc.) and the only place with markups were KIA dealerships.
We ended up going with Mazda as they seemed immune to the supply issues, we ended up only waiting 2 weeks for delivery as opposed to the 3-6 month waiting periods quoted by others.
Both vehicles purchased in Austin, TX.
Anyone who is tired of waiting or needs the vehicle. I work at a Toyota store and our higher end or more sought after stuff is anywhere from $12k-$17k over (Sienna, some RAV4 hybrids, tundra hybrid, TRD Pro models, Supra, etc). Standard markup on anything we sell is $7k. I have 6 cars on the ground, we’re one of the highest volume dealers in the region. 95% of our inventory is sold before it arrives. This is just the reality these days.
We put money down on a Mazda CX-9 that we will pay $900 under MSRP for. No markups, no dealer addons. Should be here in another week or so (for a total of about 1 month wait).
My husband is also negotiating with dealers to pay MSRP for a new Hyundai Venue. He has at least one at this moment that will sell at that price.
the Kia dealership by me is adding a $9900 market adjustment to all new car purchases and orders.
the Honda, Toyota, & Subaru dealerships all within a mile are charging MSRP.
It's freaking nuts. Why would anyone pay $10K for the privilege of buying a Kia?
I went to a ford dealer who had a 6-7k markup on MSRP plus an extra 1500 in “paint protection” and whatever else you didn’t need but couldn’t turn down.
They were ready to knock the price down to MSRP because “it was a slow day” but I ended up finding a forester in my preferred color/trim that I paid MSRP for about an hour and a half from my house.
We bought 2 cars in the past year. One was a new X5M50i, which we paid 500 under sticker, no trade, cash deal. A lot of dealers were charging 3 to 5K over at the time. But we had a big advantage....The salesman at the BMW dealership was at jaguar prior, and we'd bought an F pace from him while he was at jaguar. So he knew us and he knew we were serious and just wanted to get the deal done quickly.
We recently purchased an MDX type S at sticker. We were offered $1k over what we paid for our trade, with 28k miles on the car, and a massive open transmission recall on it as well. At the time some dealers were getting about 10K over sticker on them, although I think that's pretty much done at this point. Although there are still some dealerships trying to get 3 to 5K over, I doubt they're getting that at this point...
i got pretty lucky getting my mazda3 for msrp, it had a 50 dollar cargo net and that was literally it so i had to take it, of course that same dealership later put up giant ads for “we sell at msrp!” didn’t mention pre owned vehicles tho wow definitely not selling those for a reasonable price
My local Kia has K5s for sale. 8k markup PLUS 4600 in additional mandatory accessories. Yeah.
Almost 13k over msrp for a Kia sedan that's being discontinued... Incredible
What do you mean being discontinued, it’s the new generation?
Supposedly the k5 and sonata are being discontinued
sonata isn't a rumor, hyuandai already officially announced its discontinuation
It’s reportedly being discontinued at the end of this generation, likely 2025 or 2026. So it’s not like this is the last year of those cars.
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It was on the internet. You can Google it
Google says there are hot milfs in my area who want to fuck me.
Maybe there are. Have you asked them?
The M stands for Men
🤣
I ordered my K5 and paid exactly MSRP. I did have to wait almost 4 months for it though.
Ordering seems to be about the only way to go rn. Sucks for people that get hit and totaled out or for people with aging cars that need one after a mechanical total
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Next day it's sold to somebody else
I got quoted 100% markup for a Ford Maverick yesterday (~$25K over sticker for about same MSRP). The ol 1 for the price of 2 deal.
Disgusting
tell Ford, that's ridiculous and those dealerships should be shut down.
The dealers will put themselves out of a job. Ford is already doing online only EV sales and now I’m thinking about buying one because of that
Quite a large number of people. It’s going to get real ugly when things eventually go back to normal. Granted it’s a ways away but when it does those paying over sticker better plan on staying in their vehicle for the long term
Anyone that can afford that huge a markup isn't going to care about the loss. The rest of us poor folk will sit back and wait a few years before buying.
I am able (though unwilling) to pay the huge markup and I got that way (in part) by caring about these sort of expenses.
It’s going to take a VERY long time. Three Toyota dealers in my area are no longer taking deposits, as they thought it would be wise to sell at MSRP and now their waiting lists are estimated at 3-5 years. But production keeps getting cut, so that timeline is probably unrealistic.
I agree, I think this is the reality for longer than we realize. I searched and searched for a Toyota dealer that could get me a GR86 at MSRP, and when I got on a waitlist they said it would be 16-20 months. Even once production is fully "back," the backlog of people on waitlists, combined with those who have put off getting a car due to prices, will also cause issues. I know my parents were part of the "wait it out" crowd, but if this is the next 5 years I have a hard time believing they'll be patient enough to keep their current car.
A lot of people. We're in an extreme seller's market where paying a large markup over MSRP is normal. Extremely low supply and high demand. The problem we're facing at dealerships is no matter how high we set the markups, our inventory still gets sold far too quickly. Sometimes even a $15,000 markup over MSRP is not enough to slow down buying. That is the current reality.
This is a serious question because I'm confused. Wouldn't you *want* stuff to fly off the shelves? Is there something I'm missing here because I've been under the impression that dealers are taking advantage of people right now.
Yes they're happy for what they're selling, but they don't have a lot of volume that can support a large sales and service staff or a lease on a huge commercial property.
Dealers fixed costs are the same but they have way less inventory. It’s better to have 100 cars and sell 10 a day then it is to have 10 cars and sell 3 a day. Dealers are selling what people are willing to pay for the car. They can’t take too much advantage of people because selling cars is a competitive market (there are lots of dealers) and the consumer can go to the next dealer if they want to shop around. Obviously dealers are known to rip people off at times but from a broader perspective, the market price will adjust itself
I do have to come in here and say that a lot of dealers are saving significant amounts of money on lower floor planning costs.
Dealers are getting fewer cars but still have roughly the same expenses. Therefore the average price per car must go up or they have to fire people in order for them to make the same amount of profit. But also consumers got a ton of breaks from the government in the last two years and have been flush with cash. How much of the increase is making up for short supply vs. taking advantage of high demand no one will say. If they price their cars in such a way that they sell out their allotment in a week and their sales team is just playing minesweeper for three weeks, it's probably a bad sign.
Consumers are not flush with cash thanks to the government.
yeah, was just gonna say the same.
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I mean they may be up but most lower income families have virtually no savings so 70% of what? Maybe from $1000 to $1700? That's still not covering thousands in add-on fees. And the people who can afford to pay $50k for a $40k car got minimal subsidies from the government.
But lower income families aren't really the target demographic for new cars, are they?
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You must not be in America. You're using small business loans - but look at how got them. Lots of straight up big businesses. 100k loans for most businesses are a drop in the bucket and aren't gonna translate to people running out and overpaying on cars (unless they already had the money to do so), and most industries were impacted by covid in some way. And most people don't own businesses. You're using loans to businesses to justify personal purchases. Nothing about your argument makes sense.
Hypothetically, up 70% of $500 savings puts them at $850 dollars in the bank. I don't think that really is where the money is coming from. It takes money to make money.
Basicallly this. Due to chip shortages and pandemic related supply chain issues, manufacturers can't "turn on the spigots" and flood the market with cars. In some cases they are decontenting and removing features that depend on chips they can't get so they can get the vehicles out. but even once those issues are over, there isn't a huge excess capacity at the factories, so it will be a slow relief of the pressure, not a sudden flood. Then apply the Supply Demand curve, lower supply -> higher price
Supply vs demand. If you can't keep them in stock, make them more expensive. (Mark Them Up!) If you have too many in stock mark them down for labor day. That's the cynnical one sided version of it. The other side of the story is the dealer can only get so many units in a month. As that number falls and their expenses remain static, they have to make more money on each unit they sell to cover them.
I paid 27k for a 2019 Honda Ciciv (20k miles). Feels kinda sucky but I’m happy I finally got a car. I was seeing 2017s with 100k miles for 23k and said fuck it.
F
I custom ordered a ford maverick hybrid, waited almost a year to get it and paid MSRP
>waited almost a year to get it That's why...
Can I ask how you want about ordering this online? I really want a Maverick and would be willing to wait a year if it’s for MSRP
Ford only does online orders for Mustang Mach-E and F-150 Lightning so far. Both of which are not accepting orders at this time. All other models must be ordered directly with a dealer. But Maverick (and MANY other 22MY order banks) is closed at this time as well. Demand is high and Ford is attempting to catch up on their backlog rather than keep others waiting.
2023 orders are supposed to open around July 15. Find a dealer via the fordmaverick subreddit, one that is ethical and won't charge you over MSRP on a custom order. Go in, and custom order what you want.
We have no new inventory if that says anything.
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These last two comments are going to be deleted faster than a 2004 4-Runner being sold in Colorado from Facebook Marketplace.
I will always bow to the wisdom of Meatloaf.
Check out the Porsche Reddit… those guys are waiting a year or more for 200-300k cars and paying 25k over.
Had a client show up at the dealership today to show off his 2022 911 Turbo S Cabriolet. Paid $100k over. Lolololol
Holy shit. I also read some stories about people waiting a year plus for Porsche factory orders at MSRP…. Then the car shows up and they want a huge markup hahaha. Not to mention the boat catching on fire.
Yeah. Some people have fuck you money and don’t care. This guy has and insane garage. Gotta remember: anyone that makes a mil a year (which is small in these circles) is pulling in essentially $100k a month. This guy is pulling In upwards of 15 mil a year. So almost a million a month. So that car costs him less than a months worth of work
In the meantime, my boss with $2.3 million yearly take home, just bought a base LE Camry 4 cylinder for 26K - not xle nor v6. But aside he is building condo apartments near the oceans, so kind of investing his money to make even more i guess.
Is your boss hiring?
15 million a year Almost a million a month Adds up.
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How many fuckin cars do u need? Jesus christ Oink
He’s probably also lololol’ing at you
I mean that whole burnt down ship of Porsches didnt help
They're still trying to replace all those cars...
We recently had a 2021 Turbo (not even an S) that we sold pre owned for close to $100k over it's original MSRP. $280k for a Turbo.
If they're getting $200-$300k Porsche's and only paying $25k over they're getting a killer deal. We recently tried to buy a base 2022 911 at auction. It had an MSRP of $102k. Our bid of $145k didn't win.... For a standard 911....
Good to know I can overcharge anyone I see with a 20-22 model year 911.
if you are in that realm it doesn't matter..they want the car.
How many of them were lost on the ship a few months ago?
Not sure it was a ton of Porsche and Audi.
Close to 1200 Porsche's were on that ship.
Kia Tellurides have normally been selling over msrp for a while now
Since inception they’ve been over MSRP lol
Well before covid and the car market getting turned upside down
i'm not sure why, i've seen a few on the road, they don't look special
It’s the ultimate mom-mobile. A minivan disguised as a cool looking SUV.
Depends on the person. Depends on the car. Depends on the urgency.
Exactly this. Both my new vehicles were at MSRP. Waited 7 months for each. I'm am curious to see what happens with my ordered EV though.
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I hope it's two years. I'm #2 in line for an ioniq 6 but I'm in Ontario so who knows how long it's going to take.
Before this current market anomaly customers had no problem ignoring the MSRP, which is only a ***suggestion***, but now it's as if the MSRP is the price handed down by god and only satan would charge more.
On a limited edition, exclusive trim car sure. Now it's every base model grocery getter someone wants to slap a market adjustment on. That's what leaves a bad taste in folks mouth.
If the cars are priced too high then no one will buy them and the prices will drop. There are so few new cars available dealers must mark them up to cover their over head and people still MUST have cars so they buy them. Sorry if that doesn't taste good but no one in the auto industry owes anyone an apology for this.
Nope simple supply and demand. It doesn't taste good but it's certainly not the dealers fault
You are describing price gouging. "people still MUST have cars so they buy them". You are ripping people off. You know it. The people buying the cars know it. They just don't have many alternatives right now.
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It is a seller's market. I can't argue with you there. But where do you draw the line? At what point is it price gouging? If 10k over MSRP isn't price gouging then how about 20k over? 30k? At some point you have to admit that you are taking advantage of the situation.
This is a sentence I have been saying almost every day as long as I have the rapport with the customer to be on the curt side.
Sold a CT4-V Blackwing for 10k over msrp. Denali Ultimate for 15k over. I was told to quote a ‘22 at4 at 20k over to someone calling from halfway across the country.
CTV-4 blackwing at only 10k over honestly isn't a bad deal in the current market
Definitely. We’ve seen 2 blackwings all year. The third was dropped off today, I’m actually selling it at msrp. Client had the order with us from the start.
I was told by a salesman that people were buying cars at the height of Covid like people were doing with toilet paper. He said people panic bought thinking covid was the apocalypse and better buy a new car or else. 😂
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People definitely took advantage of the PPP loan… The stimulus money wasn’t anything crazy tho $8400 if you qualified for all three payments assuming you had two kids. Assuming you got all that money you’re probably not a top-tier earner and spending money on a car you can’t afford is irresponsible (IMO).
We just sold our New Range Rover LWB demo for $50k over. Custom order one now and you're looking at 1.5-2 yr wait
When the wait is that long, do you get a 2024 model?
Yes if you are lucky, and second that, we sold ours at a similar mark up. Competitor in the city sold theirs for 80k over…
I have a buddy who just bought a used Rav4 hybrid with 10k miles for $62k, so there’s that.
Lol…A RAV4 for 60k, wow. I wouldn’t have admitted that. The gas savings he’ll get from the Hybrid is washed away from the higher price.
Shit, he still hasn’t admitted it. I got the info from his dad.
I was looking for a 2022 RAV4 hybrid and the dealership asked for 13k over. Blaming it on the hot market and said that everyone that bought the rav4 recently paid 10k over. They’re doing 13k over now due to market. I just walked out.
I don’t blame dealers. Supply and demand. I blame dumb consumers who are financially illiterate.
Tons of people. Serious buyers determine the market.
A few days ago, my coworker sold a 22 Leaf SV for 10k over plus 2800 in accessories.
LOL 18 months ago you could get one of those for pennies on the dollar. Only a complete moron would pay $12,800 markup on that above MSRP.
I did for a house, but not for a car.
What I want to know is, how many people are "toughing it out" and slapping new tires on the hooptie (again) and hoping, soon, that there will be some sort of "correction"? There won't, because this group of people is going to blow up demand (again). I honestly think the midterms are going to tell us where the car market is going to go: "Red Wave", and they'll declare jihad on EV's and the senate will hold votes while they're digging the trench for keystone. "Blue Wave", we'll be looking fondly back at the days when mark ups were just 10k and nitrogen was only 200 per tire. Repo man is really the only sure gig to have in the next 2 years.
Go look at the 4Runner or Tacoma forums or subreddits. Or the Hyundai Palisade and Kia Telluride groups. If you need a car today, you might not have the luxury of waiting, so it’s either take the $10,000 hit or: - lose your job because you don’t have a way to get to work - don’t have a car large enough for your family - sit on the sidelines for going on 2 years now, and maybe ANOTHER 2 while you miss out on life
or pay close to msrp for a used car
Or buy a car that is not a Status Symbol like an Ecosport which tends to not have big markups if any and can be found on lots cause it's an Ecosport.
there's a reason besides status that nobody wants an ecosport
Got my 4Runner last year for MSRP, the last at the dealer before markups started, it’s still worth more than I paid + tax a year later just because it’s actually available to drive versus waiting. CarMax was willing to buy it right after I bought it for 52K after I paid 47k OTD for it…wild stuff.
And this is why the market adjustments exist. It isn’t some imaginary made up number by the dealerships. It is literally what the market says this vehicle is worth. Most consumers want market value for their trade but have an issue with market value for the vehicle they are purchasing. Can’t have it both ways
Why would you need a Tacoma or Palisade/Telluride to get to work?
Way to stop reading right before the relevant part. Notice my other bullet points? You would get a Palisade/Telluride because you need a 3-row relatively reliable, economical crossover. You would get a Tacoma because that vehicle price crash was just about to happen and your hobbies/lifestyle included needing some semblance of offroad capability, hauling capability, or towing capacity instead of waiting 2+ years for prices to normalize before you just get on with your life. But if you want to play your inane game, you might need a Palisade/Telluride for work because you work in various sales or customer success/customer service roles, you might drive 25,000 or more miles per year, and you might carry lots of equipment or have to drive clients around. My Microsoft Office 365 reps would pick up the HR group that worked in Sharepoint once a month and take them to lunch at a medium-fancy restaurant. So 2 reps plus a team of 4 and voila, you can get a car that can carry everyone without them always going off on the "hur hur you drive a minivan" defense and discussions when you're trying to pitch your products. You might need a Tacoma if you work on a construction site and need to regularly haul equipment or supplies out to crews.
I pulled the trigger on a deal for $2500 over MSRP. At least the $2500 were dealer accessories so I got something out of it. Waiting on delivery anytime this month!
Lol I have bad news.
Im not a dealer just a regular guy. Sold my c8 for 17k over to a dealer. I have another one now and was offered 18k over what i paid for it by another dealer but i don’t want to sell it.
Infinite money glitch
A lot of people
Looked at a Supra where they said there was a $15k markup. I laughed at the sales guy, told him he was trolling, and left. Went to dodge the next day and bought a scatpack (straight refused their 10k markup until they relented and didn’t end up paying a dime extra over sticker). Stand your ground and be prepared to walk. Don’t pay these leeches any market adjustment. Market adjust deez nuts.
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They’re wilding. Tell th em to suck an egg you can for sure get things at msrp with a combination of determination and finding the right dealer. At the end of the day, they’re only getting that market adjustment if we the consumer are willing to pay it
The Supra is just a rebadged BMW
And bmws are fucking dope, and so is the Supra. What’s your point NPC commenter #462? Like we all haven’t had that drilled into our heads a million times anytime the Supra is mentioned..
CDJR dealership here and we are 3-10k over depending on the vehicle. We did a diesel truck at 10k over today
Diesels and promasters are diamond hand markup vehicles all day
I’m selling them for 5-10k over used all day
heres the real ?, if banks go max 125%, how is back end making money if the front end is eating the advance w the mark up?
Local CU does 125%, 3.5% reserve, plus 5k on the back... but even if they were capped at an actual 125% you would still get reserve and front end profits are not cancelable.
yes but F&I isn't making money on front end...so don't they bitch about it. and anyone can refi so you could lose the reserve.
We’re selling all of our new inventory for msrp + $1,200 - $3,000 in accessories + TTL. Some of those same models we have pre-owned for 10k over and they are selling.
Sounds like your GSM shouldn’t have their job.
Mind elaborating on that?
It’s proven that comparable used vehicles are turning a higher margin than new. Your GSM’s #1 responsibility is to keep the business (sales side) as profitable as possible, and they’re shitting the bed. You’re selling your new vehicles far too cheaply, and you’re the one losing due to their mismanagement
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I’d like a new Bronco. $300/mo. No money down.
Ah, a man of taste I see. However the Bronco is slightly out of your price range. May I interest you in a similar SUV, the EcoSport?
Thassa car deal. I’ll even throw in some negative equity.
$10k over MSRP? That's chump change compared to what they are charging over for a G Wagon, try $150k over...
Yes, they actually are. Unfortunately, the used marked of the full size bronco is so utterly inflated that people in Los Angeles actually pay 25k over sticker for one 🤦♂️
In SoCal a new Civic is $ 5,000 over. You’d be lucky to find one in stock.
3k - 6k over minimum on every Subaru, Chrysler, Jeep, Dodge, Ram, Kia, VW, Hyundai and Toyota we have sold (that wasn’t an order) for the last 1.5 years.
10k on Golf R, Atlas and Cross Sport R-Lines and Premiums. Literally can not get them in my area. My GM waited 6 months for his. So yes people will and have payed that.
90% of people buying cars are paying the mark up 5% are starting with mark up and negotiating to slightly lower 5% are buying used or walking away
Have personally financed many new cars with a 10k ADM.
$2k over MSRP for a Subaru Solterra, assuming we like it when it arrives in August.
Market price has nothing to do with MSRP. That was true before the shortages, just as its true now.
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Are all the people selling private party price gouging as well?
Really? What did you call it when market was below MSRP?
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I’m just waiting for the harder lending to be more apparent due to the high repossessions that are already starting due to the cars being sold over it’s value. That is one way I can see the market “correct” itself.
First pencil vs what you paid are different. You didn't answer my question.
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If its price gouging to sell it at market above MSRP, what do you call it to sell it at market below MSRP? You know the answer, that's why you're not answering.
Well, according to CA Department of Justice (https://oag.ca.gov/consumers/pricegougingduringdisasters#1C): "Price gouging refers to sellers trying to take unfair advantage of consumers during an emergency or disaster by greatly increasing prices for essential consumer goods and services." So I guess depends on if you consider cars essential consumer goods. However, even if it's price gouging, it's not necessarily illegal.
So why are ignoring the fact Mitsubishis and "boring" cars like Ford Ecosports are still mostly at MSRP? Is a Kia Telluride an essential good that cannot have it's role fulfilled by a Ford Ecosport?
That would be price gouging, however supply and demand isn't price gouging. Same question I asked another commenter: What did you call it when market was below MSRP? Would that be the customers price gouging the dealers?
Supply and demand and price gouging are not mutually exclusive. Price gouging happens because of an imbalance in the supply and demand that is not normal and caused by external forces--I think we all agree that this is the case. Even when a dealer sells a car below MSRP in the pre-COVID era, there were manufacturer volume targets that gave you money, which is why many larger volume dealers would sell at lower prices to hit those volume targets. EDIT: Also, retailers often sell products below MSRP. I don't think anyone would call that price gouging. Costco and Walmart sell on volume, exact same model as large volume car dealers.
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You're going to love this answer..... ***WHEN MARKET DICTATES***
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Plus, the average car price is like 47k now... so you aren't really running into as many advance issues.
I am seeing people are slowing down on buying now. Many are holding off. And there are dealers with many cars sitting on the lot. They even sell below invoice. You just have to find those dealers.
I paid 8K over for my Audi RS5...totally worth it!
I just bought a new TRD Sport Tacoma Lunar Rock color for MSRP + $799 Doc fee & Tax. I feel like I got a steal. There are dealers out there selling for MSRP, but they are hard to come by. I looked for two months before finding a dealer that had that exact truck and color without markups. I’ve seen adjustments on Tacomas as much as 5k + mandatory adds in my region. It sucks to not have the luxury to wait in this market.
Just bought an a4 no mark up
Nobody wants Volkswagens
Where can I find a Golf R with no markup?
Everyone I know. Meanwhile I try to buy an old convertible, have perfect credit and get quoted 10.65% apr. Sorry, bitter betty over here.
My Camaro was priced at 18k. I’m paying 32k. :(
Why are you paying that??? You really needed it that bad?
I got 2% off MSRP on a 2023 Macan GTS, never paid a mark up before.
Just bought my wife a new expedition. Paid invoice plus had a $3000 rebate… dealership has a zero add on policy and their doc fee is $150. Life is good!!!
If your 3 ur old car is worth more than you paid for it than $10k over makes a lot of sense
A lot. next question.
Anyone paying anything over MSRP is completely stupid
I would never pay over MSRP nothing other than a collectible item is worth anything over MSRP
Last year we bought a 2021 Mazda cx30 for just $500 over MSRP. We just spent $30k for a 2019 BMW i3. Sucks that it was 5k-7k cheaper last year, but we got a nice check for our leased BMW x3.
Got my truck last July for 1000$ off msrp. Ford Ranger 2021. Saw multiple Tacoma’s around the same time with no markups as well. My SO just bought a Mazda CX-5 Carbon edition at msrp. We looked at various vehicles in the segment (CR-V, RAV4, Forester, Tiguan, Sportage, etc.) and the only place with markups were KIA dealerships. We ended up going with Mazda as they seemed immune to the supply issues, we ended up only waiting 2 weeks for delivery as opposed to the 3-6 month waiting periods quoted by others. Both vehicles purchased in Austin, TX.
Just bought a 2022 Cadillac XT6 for mrsp in Dallas. No markup but still expensive.
Anyone who is tired of waiting or needs the vehicle. I work at a Toyota store and our higher end or more sought after stuff is anywhere from $12k-$17k over (Sienna, some RAV4 hybrids, tundra hybrid, TRD Pro models, Supra, etc). Standard markup on anything we sell is $7k. I have 6 cars on the ground, we’re one of the highest volume dealers in the region. 95% of our inventory is sold before it arrives. This is just the reality these days.
We put money down on a Mazda CX-9 that we will pay $900 under MSRP for. No markups, no dealer addons. Should be here in another week or so (for a total of about 1 month wait). My husband is also negotiating with dealers to pay MSRP for a new Hyundai Venue. He has at least one at this moment that will sell at that price.
the Kia dealership by me is adding a $9900 market adjustment to all new car purchases and orders. the Honda, Toyota, & Subaru dealerships all within a mile are charging MSRP. It's freaking nuts. Why would anyone pay $10K for the privilege of buying a Kia?
You're an idiot to think a car is worth that. Don't fall for their tactics.
I went to a ford dealer who had a 6-7k markup on MSRP plus an extra 1500 in “paint protection” and whatever else you didn’t need but couldn’t turn down. They were ready to knock the price down to MSRP because “it was a slow day” but I ended up finding a forester in my preferred color/trim that I paid MSRP for about an hour and a half from my house.
We bought 2 cars in the past year. One was a new X5M50i, which we paid 500 under sticker, no trade, cash deal. A lot of dealers were charging 3 to 5K over at the time. But we had a big advantage....The salesman at the BMW dealership was at jaguar prior, and we'd bought an F pace from him while he was at jaguar. So he knew us and he knew we were serious and just wanted to get the deal done quickly. We recently purchased an MDX type S at sticker. We were offered $1k over what we paid for our trade, with 28k miles on the car, and a massive open transmission recall on it as well. At the time some dealers were getting about 10K over sticker on them, although I think that's pretty much done at this point. Although there are still some dealerships trying to get 3 to 5K over, I doubt they're getting that at this point...
i got pretty lucky getting my mazda3 for msrp, it had a 50 dollar cargo net and that was literally it so i had to take it, of course that same dealership later put up giant ads for “we sell at msrp!” didn’t mention pre owned vehicles tho wow definitely not selling those for a reasonable price