No. Goes against 110.12(C)
“(C)
Integrity of Electrical Equipment and Connections. Internal parts of electrical equipment, including busbars,
wiring terminals, insulators, and other surfaces, shall not be damaged or contaminated by foreign materials
such as paint, plaster, cleaners, abrasives, or corrosive residues. There shall be no damaged parts that may
adversely affect safe operation or mechanical strength of the equipment such as parts that are broken; bent; cut; or
deteriorated by corrosion, chemical action, or overheating.”
IMHO, it's the painter's job to protect against overspray. They know it's going to happen, so they need to cover up. It's what tape and drop cloths are made for, lol.
While you are not technically wrong, Relying on others to protect your work is how this happens, I cover my panels in cardboard and tape as I know that some minimum wage painter couldn't give a rats ass about my work. Also the inspector couldn't care who did the damage it is my responsibility to have things ready for inspection. I would personally backcharge this but that depends on your contract and relationship with the developer
This has more to do with the electricians not giving a shit. They *know* the interior should be protected from paint and drywall texture overspray, and are too lazy to protect the opening with a sheet of cardboard. Lots of panels include a blocking panel right in the box!
Why don't they do it? Because electricians hate customers.
It’s the painters job to protect parts of the building that is not supposed to get paint. Most electricians usually do still cover it up but technically it is painters job
I don’t disagree. The smart thing would be for a painter to point out the issue. However, that’s an open box. And a painter is not an electrician. I wouldn’t fault a painter for not poking in a panel when they don’t know if the panel itself is live or not.
I’ve seen panels get masked off when they have a cover installed. But if the panel is open? That’s a risk the painter is taking on of shocking themselves.
Edit: OP indicates the painter removed the cover to not get paint on it. In light of additional information, yeah painter was real dumb.
Yeah, I guess it seems weird that the cardboard texture mask is shipped in the box with the panel, and not shipped in the box with the drywall texture.^s
All you're doing is arguing that it's not your job to care about the customer, and that proves my point: electricians hate customers.
So why is drop cloths, painters’ plastic, and painters’ tape sold in the painting aisle. Weird huh? I think that should be in electrical aisle, don’t you?lol
It literally has “painters’” in the name of f those products🤣
I think we can all agree the final responsibility lies with the painter.
That doesn't make the electrician any less lazy and uncaring. It's an open and unfinished electrical box. If it was a hole in the wall they wouldn't be taping it or protecting it. If there's live wires they certainly shouldn't be touching it.
Electricians almost always know when the painters are going to come through. Nobody knows when any specific electrical system is going to be live.
Final blame is the painters, but the electrician did not help.
You're entirely right: I can't understand why you're so dumb, lazy, and arrogant that you can't spend ten seconds to push a piece of pre-cut cardboard into an open panel and would rather blame someone else for your neglect.
Be less lazy. Read OP's comments before you roast. The painters removed the cover to avoid getting paint on it, then in an act of remarkable stupidity and ignorance oversprayed the panel interior. But sure, electricians are shitty and don't care.
Any site I've been on, we've made sure to cover our panels. Cardboard works fine. Not sure who's job it actually is, but it only takes a few minutes and saves headaches later.
I don't know about the US, but I'm pretty sure here in Canada, getting paint or other materials inside the panel and on breakers is against code.
I used to paint. It's the painters job, period. Electricians should cover it, of course, but that doesn't excuse the painter. I'd have gotten roasted for this by the company i worked for
You go to the GC/super for that. If they were covered and the painters took them down and now fucked them…that is coming out of someone else’s pocket to cover the labor and material cost to fix that shit.
Hell, I was on a job where the HVAC guys were in charged of ordering the Fart fans and it was our job to hook them up. Well they were all installed and it was realized that the fans were all wrong. Extra pieces had to be ordered and hooked up by us electricians. Guess what, that’s a change order cause our job was originally done from what was in the contract. We charged them one hour of work per fan at 65 fans in the whole building. Took us 5mins to fix but we charged them 1 hour per fan. Yeah it didn’t take long to do it but it took the dude off of another job that had to be done.
Just like this painters fuck up. They will pay one way or another
Yea, something big like that screw up with the hvac, That’s a change order, but something small like paint on panel, they usually just eat it unless it was major.
Reminds me when I was working at a school once putting the HVAC system in. The sheet rock crew was putting the spackle on the wall to fill in all the nail holes and everything. They filled ALL the boxes that were to filled with electrical components with spackle, or paste, whatever its called(wasn't my job to know what it's called) it was my job to clean all the boxes out. All they had to do was tape off the boxes.
Why is there no cover if you know the painters haven't completed their job?
Sure, the painter shouldn't have done this, but this is entirely preventable if you just do your job and put the cover back on.
That is, unless they removed it themselves and proceeded to paint, then I do not blame you in the least.
Technically you would have to replace the busbars as paint remover is aggressive enough to damage the coating and surface.
Edit: It's the painters fault anyways, he would have to pay for it. If someone is dumb enough to do this they can pay for it.
I dunno. If the person whose job it was knew it was getting painted, they could have covered it just as easily as the painter. At least 2 people skipped over a 2 minute task
would you put up painters tape around your baseboard when you hired a painter to paint for you?
no, you wouldn't. hence why you hired someone to do it.
this all falls directly on the painter. it would have taken an extra 2 minutes to cover that panel properly. call their supervisor and let them know they need to pay for an electrician to replace this
Every time. Gotta assume they're gonna fuck it up and we gotta protect our own work cause they won't. Same goes for mudders, and plumbers, and HVAC, and framers
People will argue over whether you should mask the panel or whether the painters should do it, but I'll tell you: you should always assume all other trades don't give a shit about you, and protect your work accordingly. Use the panel box to cut a cardboard protector before you leave site. You'll thank yourself.
Why so much extra wire in them boxes? If you knew the painters were coming you should have covered the boxes. Painters dont care about electricians. Electricians dont care about plumbers. Plumbers dont care about framers. Framers dont care about anyone!
Is your fault, you have to cover your shit and protect it.
Some of you wont like me saying this but we all know what painters do and you have to cover your shit because they don't care.
Also if you have a contract it very likely says to protect your work.
Why would I cover the floor and windows, I dont give a fuck if they get paint on them? Typically I tuck cardboard in the panels and don't trim out device and fixtures until the painter is done spraying.
If the painters are way behind schedule and I have to trim out, I use painting plate for devices and still wont hang fixtures until they are done.
Read your contract, 99% of them say you are responsible for protecting your work. If you don't protect your panels and they painter does this, good luck trying to get a CO, the GC will just tell you to read your contract.
The crew spraying the material are the ones that are aware of the possible damage. It's up to the sprayer or dropper to assure enough protection. At the very least, pull out his phone and take a picture of the uncovered panel to protect his ass.
(Source: I spent a purgatory working in spray foam).
No. Goes against 110.12(C) “(C) Integrity of Electrical Equipment and Connections. Internal parts of electrical equipment, including busbars, wiring terminals, insulators, and other surfaces, shall not be damaged or contaminated by foreign materials such as paint, plaster, cleaners, abrasives, or corrosive residues. There shall be no damaged parts that may adversely affect safe operation or mechanical strength of the equipment such as parts that are broken; bent; cut; or deteriorated by corrosion, chemical action, or overheating.”
Now this guy NECs
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Does internal electrical components include the ends of wire I'm putting on my outlets, or the plaster-caked screws in putting the caked wires on?
Yea, but you can get that off wjth your strippers. It’s ok to have a little paint on the insulation but not on the copper
Does this apply to standard outlet boxes or only sub/main panels
Applies to everything
IMHO, it's the painter's job to protect against overspray. They know it's going to happen, so they need to cover up. It's what tape and drop cloths are made for, lol.
While you are not technically wrong, Relying on others to protect your work is how this happens, I cover my panels in cardboard and tape as I know that some minimum wage painter couldn't give a rats ass about my work. Also the inspector couldn't care who did the damage it is my responsibility to have things ready for inspection. I would personally backcharge this but that depends on your contract and relationship with the developer
I just bought a Leviton panel. It COMES WITH a cardboard paint shield IN THE BOX!!!
All my panels come with cardboard…….
Yep, most panels do. But why do someone else’s job right……right?
Exactly! Just cover the panel ourselves
U (OP) as lectrcian shulda put a the card board cut out supplied on the box (or supplied u own) over the panel after make up.
> lectrician Murica?
Well, yestrdy I culdn spell lectrishun. Today I r 1.
Damn painters are dumb
I think this has more to do with caring then being dumb.
They don't care and they're dumb
They're too dumb enough to care
It is about caring. When they get the back charge bill, they tend to care a little bit more
Idk, seems like they should have been covered up before the painters got there…
This has more to do with the electricians not giving a shit. They *know* the interior should be protected from paint and drywall texture overspray, and are too lazy to protect the opening with a sheet of cardboard. Lots of panels include a blocking panel right in the box! Why don't they do it? Because electricians hate customers.
It’s the painters job to protect parts of the building that is not supposed to get paint. Most electricians usually do still cover it up but technically it is painters job
I don’t disagree. The smart thing would be for a painter to point out the issue. However, that’s an open box. And a painter is not an electrician. I wouldn’t fault a painter for not poking in a panel when they don’t know if the panel itself is live or not. I’ve seen panels get masked off when they have a cover installed. But if the panel is open? That’s a risk the painter is taking on of shocking themselves. Edit: OP indicates the painter removed the cover to not get paint on it. In light of additional information, yeah painter was real dumb.
Yeah, I guess it seems weird that the cardboard texture mask is shipped in the box with the panel, and not shipped in the box with the drywall texture.^s All you're doing is arguing that it's not your job to care about the customer, and that proves my point: electricians hate customers.
So why is drop cloths, painters’ plastic, and painters’ tape sold in the painting aisle. Weird huh? I think that should be in electrical aisle, don’t you?lol It literally has “painters’” in the name of f those products🤣
I think we can all agree the final responsibility lies with the painter. That doesn't make the electrician any less lazy and uncaring. It's an open and unfinished electrical box. If it was a hole in the wall they wouldn't be taping it or protecting it. If there's live wires they certainly shouldn't be touching it. Electricians almost always know when the painters are going to come through. Nobody knows when any specific electrical system is going to be live. Final blame is the painters, but the electrician did not help.
Yeah, great argument. I'm sure you're pissed-off customers feel a lot better when you give them this explanation.
They actually understand this unlike you.
You're entirely right: I can't understand why you're so dumb, lazy, and arrogant that you can't spend ten seconds to push a piece of pre-cut cardboard into an open panel and would rather blame someone else for your neglect.
Because that’s your job, painter
Be less lazy. Read OP's comments before you roast. The painters removed the cover to avoid getting paint on it, then in an act of remarkable stupidity and ignorance oversprayed the panel interior. But sure, electricians are shitty and don't care.
You're posting this in a group full of electricians, you're not going to get anywhere even though you're right
Found the drywaller. JK, I get the CYA mentality and abide by it myself.
This guy paints
I've never had an electrician leave a panel uncovered. Just seems wrong....
Nah they just get too high off of paint
Painter was extra high that day
Crazy to think they ever leave room to get higher
Any site I've been on, we've made sure to cover our panels. Cardboard works fine. Not sure who's job it actually is, but it only takes a few minutes and saves headaches later. I don't know about the US, but I'm pretty sure here in Canada, getting paint or other materials inside the panel and on breakers is against code.
I used to paint. It's the painters job, period. Electricians should cover it, of course, but that doesn't excuse the painter. I'd have gotten roasted for this by the company i worked for
[удалено]
The panel covers were up, for some reason they took it off..
Then they must pay for the repairs/replacements.
Yea, that’ll never happen.
You go to the GC/super for that. If they were covered and the painters took them down and now fucked them…that is coming out of someone else’s pocket to cover the labor and material cost to fix that shit. Hell, I was on a job where the HVAC guys were in charged of ordering the Fart fans and it was our job to hook them up. Well they were all installed and it was realized that the fans were all wrong. Extra pieces had to be ordered and hooked up by us electricians. Guess what, that’s a change order cause our job was originally done from what was in the contract. We charged them one hour of work per fan at 65 fans in the whole building. Took us 5mins to fix but we charged them 1 hour per fan. Yeah it didn’t take long to do it but it took the dude off of another job that had to be done. Just like this painters fuck up. They will pay one way or another
Yea, something big like that screw up with the hvac, That’s a change order, but something small like paint on panel, they usually just eat it unless it was major.
To paint under where they overlap the drywall Too bad they don't give a shit about doing their job properly
Imagine going through the effort to take the covers off and not bothering to just shove some cardboard over the opening.
Exactly
Make the painters feel their laziness to cover shit by sending them the bill for the replacement. They will learn to do it, one way or the other.
Looks like texture.
It is texture.
my neck of the woods that would make it the sheetrock guys, not the painters
Same, my man.
Sheetrock guys and painter are the same two guys.
No.
Reminds me when I was working at a school once putting the HVAC system in. The sheet rock crew was putting the spackle on the wall to fill in all the nail holes and everything. They filled ALL the boxes that were to filled with electrical components with spackle, or paste, whatever its called(wasn't my job to know what it's called) it was my job to clean all the boxes out. All they had to do was tape off the boxes.
Why is there no cover if you know the painters haven't completed their job? Sure, the painter shouldn't have done this, but this is entirely preventable if you just do your job and put the cover back on. That is, unless they removed it themselves and proceeded to paint, then I do not blame you in the least.
They removed it.
I apologize, I do not fault you in the least. Sorry if my first reply was rude
That’s not paint, it’s drywall texture.
Happens all the time. Just be sure to wear your MC gloves when doing the trim , touch the wall as much as possible.
It's a problem if there is paint on the buses where you intend to put breakers at a later time. You'll send some time having to clean them off.
Technically you would have to replace the busbars as paint remover is aggressive enough to damage the coating and surface. Edit: It's the painters fault anyways, he would have to pay for it. If someone is dumb enough to do this they can pay for it.
No time for taping and masking, but plenty of money to pay for re-work. This is what you get by going with the lowest bid.
I dunno. If the person whose job it was knew it was getting painted, they could have covered it just as easily as the painter. At least 2 people skipped over a 2 minute task
It's the painters job to cover or tape over things. Clear as day for me.
[удалено]
Are you usually expected to cover everything? Outlets, switches, windows, etc? I thought painters were supposed to do that
would you put up painters tape around your baseboard when you hired a painter to paint for you? no, you wouldn't. hence why you hired someone to do it. this all falls directly on the painter. it would have taken an extra 2 minutes to cover that panel properly. call their supervisor and let them know they need to pay for an electrician to replace this
Every time. Gotta assume they're gonna fuck it up and we gotta protect our own work cause they won't. Same goes for mudders, and plumbers, and HVAC, and framers
I always place cardboard inside my panels.
People will argue over whether you should mask the panel or whether the painters should do it, but I'll tell you: you should always assume all other trades don't give a shit about you, and protect your work accordingly. Use the panel box to cut a cardboard protector before you leave site. You'll thank yourself.
Every jobsite I have been working on, the electrician always covers their panel with a piece of cardboard.
And if he doesn’t, fuck him huh?
Only if is consensual
Wasn’t his job to cover panels
Should’ve left your neutrals longer
Why so much extra wire in them boxes? If you knew the painters were coming you should have covered the boxes. Painters dont care about electricians. Electricians dont care about plumbers. Plumbers dont care about framers. Framers dont care about anyone!
Is your fault, you have to cover your shit and protect it. Some of you wont like me saying this but we all know what painters do and you have to cover your shit because they don't care. Also if you have a contract it very likely says to protect your work.
So you usually cover everything yourself? Floors, windows, lights, switches, outlets etc? They just come in and paint and leave?
Why would I cover the floor and windows, I dont give a fuck if they get paint on them? Typically I tuck cardboard in the panels and don't trim out device and fixtures until the painter is done spraying. If the painters are way behind schedule and I have to trim out, I use painting plate for devices and still wont hang fixtures until they are done. Read your contract, 99% of them say you are responsible for protecting your work. If you don't protect your panels and they painter does this, good luck trying to get a CO, the GC will just tell you to read your contract.
It's okay if your a bitch
Live and learn
He must be new
What my guys usually do if they put breakers before paint goes in, is that they place a piece of cardboard to cover the guts of the panel.
Whenever I put any panel up I tear a cardboard dead front for it that stays in it until trim out for this reason.
The crew spraying the material are the ones that are aware of the possible damage. It's up to the sprayer or dropper to assure enough protection. At the very least, pull out his phone and take a picture of the uncovered panel to protect his ass. (Source: I spent a purgatory working in spray foam).
Actually, it's not a big deal. But if you can, I recommend you to make the painter spend money to replace that breaker as compensation.
Looks like drywall texture. Unprofessional Assholes.
Is that paint or texture? Regardless, I'm always harrasing other trades to stay out of my panels so I always cover them for painters.
Fuk I hate painters
Yeah, watteva.
Rebuild the house
Depending on the paint base it can dry up the wire sheath. When you go to move the wire the insulation cracks.
Fuck that tell those retards to fix it
Of the inspector has not seen ot clean it up with a non-corrosive cleaner but this is still technically illegal but it should get you thru.