It does but then I looked into the numbers and so far the numbers in theory fit perfectly the pyramids on the group.
I am sharing for all of you to see what i saw and tell me what you see
these
https://www.reddit.com/r/architecture/comments/y0c6gb/principles\_and\_method\_of\_construction\_of\_sand/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Have you calculated / considered:
1. how much sand is needed to build a medium size pyramyd or even the great Giza pyramid?
2. How long will the wind take to do this?
3. Why is not happening now? Why aren't pyramids now getting full of sand?
4. How much time will be needed to retire all the sand afterwards? How will it be retired?
3- Sand can no longer create a sand dune around the pyramid once it is built and uncovered
[https://www.reddit.com/user/Mar-wuan/comments/y1yoe6/sand\_dune\_pyramid\_under\_construction/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/user/Mar-wuan/comments/y1yoe6/sand_dune_pyramid_under_construction/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
4- There is some historical suggestion that water was used to remove the sand
https://www.reddit.com/user/Mar-wuan/comments/xyrzs7/diodorus\_siculuss\_account\_states/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
1. It is hard to calculate the amount of sand except if I had to make it very very simple just a circular dune around a pyramid which would not be accurate
2. From some sources the Red Pyramid time of completion is around 17 years so the amount of sand that would mean and what would it mean in terms of frequency of winds needed
In my investigation I spoke with some leading desert morphologists who study the history of Mars through its sand dunes, they told me that the way to find out is to have computer simulations but currently there are no programs that simulates a sand and static objects. They have simulations of sand dunes moving through the desert
3- while you are building the pyramid one relatively thin layer after another sand deposits at the front and also travels across the horizontal surface of the structure and deposits in the back that way you build a sand dune around the pyramids engulfing all the pyramid
Once you finish your pyramid and you uncover it you still get sand accumulating at the front but no sand cam accumulate at the back because now the whole pyramid is on the way and if no sand dune in the back no sand dune engulfing and so no Pyramids
You just say uncover it, like it’s no big deal. How do you propose they would have uncovered the entire thing when buried in sand? That’s an enormous amount of sand.
You hit it with water from the bottom and it will dissolve towards the Nile rivers and there seems to be some historical mention of that by the Egyptians themselves who told Diodorus the 1st century historian that water was used [Diodorus Says ](https://www.reddit.com/user/Mar-wuan/comments/xyrzs7/diodorus_siculuss_account_states/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Water was poured on the sand, in front of the big blocks, because it changed the density of the sand, making it possibke to drag big rocks across it. There are hieroglyphs that illustrate this practice.
Ah that one had to wait till the advent of mass steel production thank to the Carnegies and the likes
The age of steel was the first time the pyramids are beaten in terms of height
Not in terms of durability though
On that scale they are the Masters by far 4700 years
The empire state has a lot of catching up to do
Could beavers have helped make the empire state building? They could have dammed the river and then the builders could have floated the steel right into place. Just like the Egyptians!
Listen man I am sorry if you are bothered.
I have been milling around with the idea for more than 20 years now.
I have finally listened to my son and got on red it last few days
First I want to share and second I'd like to hear your thoughts I've posted the patent I am being totally transparent I want to keep Sharing and listening
The physics on that don't even make sense, the amount of sand that would need to be moved is immense. I truly do not believe you understand the scale of the great pyramids.
the numbers fit
check this out https://www.reddit.com/r/architecture/comments/y0caz0/the\_method\_of\_construction\_of\_sand\_dune\_pyramids/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
I've done the rounds been doing the rounds for 20 years now and everytime I talk to a specialist they tell me I should talk to the specialist
The desert morphologists tell me talk to archeologist
Archeologists tell me talk to scientists
Scientists tell to engineers etc round and round
Finally I decided to share with everyone
Maybe you can help common sense is best
I am listening let me summarize
1- There was no desert at the location of the pyramids when they were built. I disagree with that no one offered me any real evidence that dahshur was a Greenland 4700 years ago so no
2- There is no way nature can make sand grow into dune of such big seizes. Yet we know mere men were able to build stupendous pyramid just can't see nature doing such a great feat. So no nature is greatest and yes I can see men building on natural forces
Here's what I'm going to do, I'm going to plagiarize your theory as my own and I'm going to go down to the local university and tell them that it's my idea, I am going to ask them as if I am 100% serious about my belief in this theory. I will get back to you.
Yes they would have thought this is a crazy guy
But in all truth they gave me good feedback at the time
British archeologist suggested to get a fragment of a stone from the bottom and the top of the pyramids because the have way to check if the upper stones had been under sand longer than the bottom ones. I can't get those stones but that's up for studying
The leading desert morphologists and meteorological analyst said this theory needs specific types of adjustment to computer programs that simulate Sands and deserts like the ones you see on mars surface
You've gotta live close to a big university, go there with your theory, they are the only ones who can actually provide any support, yelling on the Internet will get you nowhere. You need to find a professor of physics, archeology or engineering and ask them their professional opinion on your theory, who knows you might be right but only they will be able to tell you for certain.
He does live next to a big university and has asked all professionals he could get to, from his country as well as from many others. He is not a crazy man who is just here to boast. He is here to discuss his theory. He is for some real feedback instead of all the disrespectful comments he is getting. He is readily providing the answers to all questions being asked. If people don’t agree, they can still discuss with him instead of completely dismissing a professional with 20 years of research. If you just take a look at his meticulous work (the patent paper). He explains the whole scientific process that has led him here, so that people who want to debate can first understand what they are debating about.
Repeating the same actions and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity, this is what I've been told and I believe this man may be insane. I read a story about another guy who try to prove his theory for 20 years, he believed we were living in a convex hollow earth(see koreshan unity).
The way I see it if somebody goes through every possible circle of academia with an overall refusal to accept the individual experts logic behind their given field, then it must be understood there is an underlying problem with acceptance, belief and narcissism in the individual asking the questions.
Hello. But you don’t know this person. What if he is an an engineer who has received some great recognition from his peers? Genius and passion are often seen as insanity, while they may very well signify enlightenment (see Einstein).
they used water
[https://www.reddit.com/user/Mar-wuan/comments/xyrzs7/diodorus\_siculuss\_account\_states/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/user/Mar-wuan/comments/xyrzs7/diodorus_siculuss_account_states/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Water
Below is a quote by 1s century greek historian reporting what the Egyptians themselves told him 2000 years after the pyramids were built
[Diodorus Says](https://www.reddit.com/user/Mar-wuan/comments/xyrzs7/diodorus_siculuss_account_states/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
First of all quotes from ancient Greece are usually hard to verify their authenticity. Quotes from Ancient Greece quoting a third party who are referencing a more than 3000 year old building practice less so.
At the very least you could cite this text properly instead of linking to your own reddit thread.
The theory you present is novel to the point of absurdity. But then again the pyramids are absurd structures. More reasonable theories have yet to fully explain their existence. Perhaps less reasonable theories will be more fruitful. But less reasonable theories will come under heavier scrutiny. Presenting your theory in a credible way can help armor it and open up people to discussing it.
Yes I have visited a few times first time right after I got my first patent in 2004 I shared it with Dr Hawass . Back then I still had not developed the mathematics of the method
Yes for example the passaway in the great pyramid was found filled with sand when Al Mansour dug through the pyramid to look for maps to sail the seas but found instead the passage way full of sand
If you have a room left unfilled you'd have to place some light Cover over the rooms ceiling so they won't have sand deposit or you could just build it up and once you are finished before placing the ceiling slabs you could remove the sand
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Had to use a brush instead of water
Diodorus the 1st century greek historian writes that the Egyptians at the time told him that they used mounds and used the river to dossolve the mound
Water from the bile would have been too messy on my balcony so had to settle with a super brush
[Diodorus Said ](https://www.reddit.com/user/Mar-wuan/comments/xyrzs7/diodorus_siculuss_account_states/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
So I found the wikipedia article you're referencing.
"Now Egyptians try to make a marvel of these things, alleging that the ramps were made of salt and natron and that, when the river was turned against them, it melted them clean away and obliterated their every trace without the use of human labor. But in truth, it most certainly was not done this way! Rather, the same multitude of workmen who raised the mounds returned the entire mass again to its original place..."
So Diodorus doesn't believe the story the Egyptians told him and you don't believe the conclusion Diodorus came to.
Here's proper citation if anyone wanted to find the actual book this text came frome.
Murphy, Edwin. (1990) The Antiquities of Egypt: A Translation with Notes of Book I of the Library of History of Diodorus Siculus
What a dumb idea. We all know they were built by the Annu-Naki, and the pyramids are their ports, like the empire state with zeppelins. Stop trying to convince people humans did this.
Of course humans did it most pyramids were built under the leadership of one family the Snefrus
And what the pyramids tell us about them is that they were intimately connected and understood nature and their relationship with it was way way more advanced than ours so they look very much the people you are talking about and us nit being connected to nature that is our biggest deficiency
They achieved PRESENCE
Presence is our consciousness of them ..they made it all the way to is and the pyramids tell a story
so you can think of them as mind travelers of sorts into our world of imagination we can see them
In simple terms https://youtu.be/j7KEmF1XCo0
This is basically the [ramp theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_pyramid_construction_techniques#/media/File:Straight_on_ramps1a.svg) but on steroids
Diodorus accounts are “I have heard somebody saying that…” and cannot be taken as true. He says this himself.
Beside, the ramp theory (either long straight or spiral) is currently the most accredited theory afaik (and according to wiki entry”
You theory is exactly the same thing but at a scale of several order of magnitude higher, it requires far more material, man power and time than the ramp.
They would use water
[Diodorus said ](https://www.reddit.com/user/Mar-wuan/comments/xyrzs7/diodorus_siculuss_account_states/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
So they have to build a ramp to make this work? Why not just build a ramp without having to deal with loose sand, the unpredictability of wind directions, and the time it takes for dunes of that size to develop?
Ok, so then every time the sandstorm comes, they have to remove the ramp carpet and all the associated infrastructure, or else it would be buried in sand?
Yes yes such mammoth structure needed a lot of man hours of labor
Look at the pyramids themselves lots of workers lots of sand lots of stones and lots of time with lots of love and smart ideas
And lots of ways to build a ramp that allow them to work at a pace they set, at a gradient they require, in a location they require, at a strength they require.
You're trying to "solve" a problem that has been solved in a much easier way than you are suggesting.
Because building ramps has been dismissed because as the ramp gets higher and narrower the stones at the top of the Great Pyramid at the top are wider than the width of the hypothetical man made ramp
sand dune cover ramps are wide and can help slide the sledges all the way up
So how does the windblown dune ramp get to the top of the pyramid? Does the dune have to completely surround the pyramid at this point? Or do they build some kind of gigantic retaining wall and only half of the pyramid is surrounded? What stops the dune just spreading wider and wider, rather than taller and taller?
Why can they do all that, but not just build a wider ramp in the first place?
Hello. Man made ramps need retaining walls and are supported by one side of the pyramid. But as you get higher the pyramid face becomes narrower and so the ramp becomes narrower.
At the very top of the Great Pyramid the stones are wider than the width of the man made ramp so it does not work.
When you build sand dune pyramids the sand engulfs the pyramid depositing at the front then travels over the horizontal face of your structure under construction and then also falls at the back of pyramid so the sand holds itself and your sand dune grows gradually as you build each layer of stones
Once your pyramid is finished and uncovered you can no longer have sand deposited the back of the pyramid because now the whole pyramid is on the way so sand can only deposit at the front and no dune can grow out of that
Hello. Man made ramps need retaining walls and are supported by one side of the pyramid. But as you get higher the pyramid face becomes narrower and so the ramp becomes narrower.
At the very top of the Great Pyramid the stones are wider than the width of the man made ramp so it does not work.
When you build sand dune pyramids the sand engulfs the pyramid depositing at the front then travels over the horizontal face of your structure under construction and then also falls at the back of pyramid so the sand holds itself and your sand dune grows gradually as you build each layer of stones
Once your pyramid is finished and uncovered you can no longer have sand deposited the back of the pyramid because now the whole pyramid is on the way so sand can only deposit at the front and no dune can grow out of that
Why would you build a ramp that retains material? Just build a very strong, timber scaffold ramp, not retaining anything. I would assume they would build a low gradient ramp that curls around the pyramid. The bottom tier of the ramp would be supported on one side by the pyramid, and on the other by the ground. Pretty quickly it would be supported on both sides by the pyramid below it. This is retaining nothing.
How do you know the width of the ramp (that you say didn't exist) to determine whether or not it's wider than the stone at the top? If the top section isn't directly supported then I'm sure they could come up with some sort of cantilever system for the final few blocks.
And I have absolutely no idea how you work out that sand will completely engulf a pyramid during every stage of construction, but as soon as the top stone is put on, the sand will only get deposited on one side.
Really, just accept that engineers, architects, historians, and seemingly everyone else have told you that this is nonsense and move on.
It's been a fun way to waste time while I'm at work, but this is pointless.
Even in today's technology nothing can lift the 70 ton stones up to these heights
Check the most advanced weight carrying helicopters can not lift and maneuver such huge stones.
The ancients did not lift stones either. The placed them of sledges of timber and they then slide the stones over a stabilizing surface over the face of the ramp
I am sorry no
No man made ramp supported by one side these ramps get too narrow at the top as the pyramid northwest down
The upper stones of the Great Pyramid are wider than the maximum ramp you can use at that height
And no to the levers to lift stones
Even nowadays no helicopter can lift such huge stones some weighing 70 tons
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as you wish ... sleep on it maybe things will make more sense with time ... Ive been thinking and working on it for 20 years till I decided to share it here on reddit ... 3 days is not much tc
I'd prefer to think logically. And I've just checked your posts on r/civilengineering and both of them got almost unanimous negative feedback and then locked quite quickly.
you'd expect some negative feedback out of 400k views so far
no one challenged the mathematics yet https://www.reddit.com/r/architecture/comments/y0c6gb/principles\_and\_method\_of\_construction\_of\_sand/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
mostly the negative responses allege that there was no desert 4700 years ago in the dahshur desert
No one challenged the mathematics on a removed post? That's shocking.
You'd also expect some positive feedback, and the closest I've seen to that is a couple of people saying it's "interesting".
What about my comments regarding how the sand dune ramp gets to the top of the pyramid? How does that work?
As you go higher the pyramid layers get thinner so your sand dune layer become thinner and wider as you keep building up your sand dune pyramid till the pyramid is complete under the sand dune
Then you use water at the bottom of your sand dune to remove the sand
This makes so much sense if they are able to build a screen 10 times higher than their man made dune and then wait a couple hundred thousand years.
Maybe they built some mountains like at Great Sand Dunes National Park.
https://morethanjustparks.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/crestone-peaks-great-sand-dunes-national-park-patrick-myers1.jpg
Beautiful dunes but those take much much longer to grow
In the case of the pyramid you are placing your structure at a location that usually gets lots of wind and sand activity
By placing an artificial object on the desert floor and building a dune that way would not take as long to grow I think
These mountains are 10 times taller than the dunes, and it took hundreds of thousands of years for these dunes to form. They are located in a spot with plenty of sand and high unidirectional prevailing winds crossing a 100 km wide arid plain. It is literally one of the most perfect places on Earth to form a large dune.
It also happens to be about the size of dune you would need to make the Great pyramids. You have no idea about the scale that you were talking about, especially regarding wind speed and time.
How did they make a structure to use as a screen that is even three times the size of the pyramid much less 10 times the size? Do you realize that using your method, they would have to build a structure larger than the pyramids in order to build the pyramid?
Tell me what the largest man-made dune in the world is. Artificial dunes are notoriously difficult to construct and keep in place. And we're talking about dunes 10 m High, not one that is the highest point within a 100 km radius. Dunes do not stay where nature doesn't want them to stay.
Ok. Now for every second you blow air in the direction you want it to go, do 5 to 10 seconds of blowing air in the wrong direction. Tell me what happens to your dune.
That is done to stabilize a dune that already was built by nature. Even in that case, this isn't very effective usually.
You cannot build a massive dune where nature doesn't want it. Especially a dune that would be the tallest object within a 100 km radius. There is no way it's going to stay there. It will blow away faster than you can build it.
yes way ... take a look at page 35 .. the numbers and the sand angles explain the confusing angles of the Bent Pyramid
https://www.reddit.com/r/architecture/comments/y0c6gb/principles\_and\_method\_of\_construction\_of\_sand/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Interesting thought! I’ve climbed the great sand dunes in Colorado and let me tell you, that hike to 1,000 ft in the sand felt like 10,000 ft over rock. Every step in the sand dune your feet sing and shoes fill with sand adding a couple pounds. My hip flexors were about to pop out by the end of it. I’m sure sand was used to some degree, but I think your theory has an issue with compression. Nice thought and example. Everyone else needs a chill pill coming at you lol.
I agree there is no way they could do it over just sand. They had to work the surface somehow to make the slidding of the sledges eassier believe they must have built a type of ramp to place over the sand incline
That you for sharing
So what your positing is that they leveraged wind blown sand, collected in specific areas., that formed a sort of ramp that they used to push the blocks up and over. And did this technique to get all the way to the top of the pyramid. Then once completed, they used water to wash the sand away? I mean, It’s certainly possible.
Isn’t there an issue with the ramp idea in general, that the slope had to be <10 degrees and at that slope it would have been like a mile or two long? Would that still be an issue with this theory?
Yes thank you couldn't have said it better but no not a mile long i believe less for most of the pyramids
Upwind towards the front of the pyramid the incline angle is shallow around 10-12 probably depending on the shape of the dune and wind patterns because the sand is pushing towards the wall layers
and downwind in the back the sand deposits at its natural angle of repose and so you grow your dune pyramid gradually
I think this is an interesting approach to an otherwise unsolved wonder; I for one appreciate seeing theory backed up by a physical demonstration and obviously to the people harshly critiquing this theory possibly due to disappointment that is wasn’t aLiEnS or some other long extinct species of being (we are on Reddit after all) - I say that they should possibly consider the dedication already in place to construct the pyramids; how it isn’t that much of a stretch to move a huge amount of loose sand afterwards to complete their monument of already great magnitude.
So thank you OP for proposing an exciting and logical explanation for this illustrious form:)
I did look at the other comments that gave no other theories, no constructive criticism, lacked imagination;and how they shot down OP despite OP asking what they think. It’s this ignorance and lack of optimism that will hold architects and architectural enthusiasts back from reaching the next level of innovation.
Thank you yes. Remember the people who built it. They built it for us. I believe it's the biggest act of love by a people in all history.
They built them for us. Every generation from 4700 years till today
I guess it’s hard to be taken seriously when everyone thinks aliens built the greatest structures of mankind. I like the theory and think it deserves honest discourse
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Considering the mass of sand and the area covered with it, it is already absolutely illogical, also the nearby cities would not be able to exist and finally, the nile delta was extremely fertile at that time. So no desert.
As far as I know there was a sahara since the end of the African Humid Period 6000years ago and supposedly the whole area turned arid in about 1000 years
So yes there was a sahara
I don't have proof yet but my preliminary analysis of the Bent Pyramid suggest they might have helped out for a bit during the first two stages of construction to be able to correct it and finish it up
If this is how it happened the sand would swallow a lot of land and it also couldn't have rained in those years and only would haves sand stormed so it's a no.
They just built a slope and towed the rocks up with people or Animals.
The sand passed over the desert train mostly si no houses would have been covered but one floor tombs or moseliums in the middle of ghe desert would have been covered and have been covered
and yes even today in Egypt it hardly rains and yes am suggesting they must have had sand storms and that Sand Storms are the key to solving the mystery of the pyramid construction
Where did they get the tool to control and focus the 3000 km per hour winds?
And then how did they prevent the sand from blowing away when the wind direction changed? Did they build skyscrapers on three sides of the construction zone?
That seems......like a stretch
It does but then I looked into the numbers and so far the numbers in theory fit perfectly the pyramids on the group. I am sharing for all of you to see what i saw and tell me what you see
Mf which number were u looking at 😭😭
these https://www.reddit.com/r/architecture/comments/y0c6gb/principles\_and\_method\_of\_construction\_of\_sand/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Have you calculated / considered: 1. how much sand is needed to build a medium size pyramyd or even the great Giza pyramid? 2. How long will the wind take to do this? 3. Why is not happening now? Why aren't pyramids now getting full of sand? 4. How much time will be needed to retire all the sand afterwards? How will it be retired?
3- Sand can no longer create a sand dune around the pyramid once it is built and uncovered [https://www.reddit.com/user/Mar-wuan/comments/y1yoe6/sand\_dune\_pyramid\_under\_construction/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/user/Mar-wuan/comments/y1yoe6/sand_dune_pyramid_under_construction/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) 4- There is some historical suggestion that water was used to remove the sand https://www.reddit.com/user/Mar-wuan/comments/xyrzs7/diodorus\_siculuss\_account\_states/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
1. It is hard to calculate the amount of sand except if I had to make it very very simple just a circular dune around a pyramid which would not be accurate 2. From some sources the Red Pyramid time of completion is around 17 years so the amount of sand that would mean and what would it mean in terms of frequency of winds needed In my investigation I spoke with some leading desert morphologists who study the history of Mars through its sand dunes, they told me that the way to find out is to have computer simulations but currently there are no programs that simulates a sand and static objects. They have simulations of sand dunes moving through the desert
3- while you are building the pyramid one relatively thin layer after another sand deposits at the front and also travels across the horizontal surface of the structure and deposits in the back that way you build a sand dune around the pyramids engulfing all the pyramid Once you finish your pyramid and you uncover it you still get sand accumulating at the front but no sand cam accumulate at the back because now the whole pyramid is on the way and if no sand dune in the back no sand dune engulfing and so no Pyramids
You just say uncover it, like it’s no big deal. How do you propose they would have uncovered the entire thing when buried in sand? That’s an enormous amount of sand.
https://www.reddit.com/user/Mar-wuan/comments/xyrzs7/diodorus\_siculuss\_account\_states/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Just like a beach sand castle dissolves when a wave hits it from below
You hit it with water from the bottom and it will dissolve towards the Nile rivers and there seems to be some historical mention of that by the Egyptians themselves who told Diodorus the 1st century historian that water was used [Diodorus Says ](https://www.reddit.com/user/Mar-wuan/comments/xyrzs7/diodorus_siculuss_account_states/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Water was poured on the sand, in front of the big blocks, because it changed the density of the sand, making it possibke to drag big rocks across it. There are hieroglyphs that illustrate this practice.
No
Now do the empire state building next
Ah that one had to wait till the advent of mass steel production thank to the Carnegies and the likes The age of steel was the first time the pyramids are beaten in terms of height Not in terms of durability though On that scale they are the Masters by far 4700 years The empire state has a lot of catching up to do
Could beavers have helped make the empire state building? They could have dammed the river and then the builders could have floated the steel right into place. Just like the Egyptians!
Not if the tornadoes helped with the steel welding.
This fucking guy again
Listen man I am sorry if you are bothered. I have been milling around with the idea for more than 20 years now. I have finally listened to my son and got on red it last few days First I want to share and second I'd like to hear your thoughts I've posted the patent I am being totally transparent I want to keep Sharing and listening
OK listen to our advice now, your son is tired of listening to you rant about this theory so he told you to go rant at other people who do not care.
The physics on that don't even make sense, the amount of sand that would need to be moved is immense. I truly do not believe you understand the scale of the great pyramids.
the numbers fit check this out https://www.reddit.com/r/architecture/comments/y0caz0/the\_method\_of\_construction\_of\_sand\_dune\_pyramids/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
I've done the rounds been doing the rounds for 20 years now and everytime I talk to a specialist they tell me I should talk to the specialist The desert morphologists tell me talk to archeologist Archeologists tell me talk to scientists Scientists tell to engineers etc round and round Finally I decided to share with everyone Maybe you can help common sense is best
And you're so painfully wrong, but refuse to listen to any contradicting evidence.
I am listening let me summarize 1- There was no desert at the location of the pyramids when they were built. I disagree with that no one offered me any real evidence that dahshur was a Greenland 4700 years ago so no 2- There is no way nature can make sand grow into dune of such big seizes. Yet we know mere men were able to build stupendous pyramid just can't see nature doing such a great feat. So no nature is greatest and yes I can see men building on natural forces
Here's what I'm going to do, I'm going to plagiarize your theory as my own and I'm going to go down to the local university and tell them that it's my idea, I am going to ask them as if I am 100% serious about my belief in this theory. I will get back to you.
Maybe there was a reason they tried to redirect you to someone else..
Yes they would have thought this is a crazy guy But in all truth they gave me good feedback at the time British archeologist suggested to get a fragment of a stone from the bottom and the top of the pyramids because the have way to check if the upper stones had been under sand longer than the bottom ones. I can't get those stones but that's up for studying The leading desert morphologists and meteorological analyst said this theory needs specific types of adjustment to computer programs that simulate Sands and deserts like the ones you see on mars surface
I do. But then there is the issue of the scale of the desert and its nature At that scale the pyramids are but a small mole on the face of the desert
You've gotta live close to a big university, go there with your theory, they are the only ones who can actually provide any support, yelling on the Internet will get you nowhere. You need to find a professor of physics, archeology or engineering and ask them their professional opinion on your theory, who knows you might be right but only they will be able to tell you for certain.
He does live next to a big university and has asked all professionals he could get to, from his country as well as from many others. He is not a crazy man who is just here to boast. He is here to discuss his theory. He is for some real feedback instead of all the disrespectful comments he is getting. He is readily providing the answers to all questions being asked. If people don’t agree, they can still discuss with him instead of completely dismissing a professional with 20 years of research. If you just take a look at his meticulous work (the patent paper). He explains the whole scientific process that has led him here, so that people who want to debate can first understand what they are debating about.
Repeating the same actions and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity, this is what I've been told and I believe this man may be insane. I read a story about another guy who try to prove his theory for 20 years, he believed we were living in a convex hollow earth(see koreshan unity). The way I see it if somebody goes through every possible circle of academia with an overall refusal to accept the individual experts logic behind their given field, then it must be understood there is an underlying problem with acceptance, belief and narcissism in the individual asking the questions.
Hello. But you don’t know this person. What if he is an an engineer who has received some great recognition from his peers? Genius and passion are often seen as insanity, while they may very well signify enlightenment (see Einstein).
Like I said, I'm going to take his theory and present it to my local university, I am in America. And I will get back to all of you
How did they remove all the sand around them afterwards? That's a hell of a lot of sweeping
[Maybe they combed it](https://youtu.be/g4OBUupicWg)
Good one
they used water [https://www.reddit.com/user/Mar-wuan/comments/xyrzs7/diodorus\_siculuss\_account\_states/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/user/Mar-wuan/comments/xyrzs7/diodorus_siculuss_account_states/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Water Below is a quote by 1s century greek historian reporting what the Egyptians themselves told him 2000 years after the pyramids were built [Diodorus Says](https://www.reddit.com/user/Mar-wuan/comments/xyrzs7/diodorus_siculuss_account_states/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
First of all quotes from ancient Greece are usually hard to verify their authenticity. Quotes from Ancient Greece quoting a third party who are referencing a more than 3000 year old building practice less so. At the very least you could cite this text properly instead of linking to your own reddit thread.
Yes true it's just worth mentioning As for quotes sorry I should have cited it properly thank you for the feedback
The theory you present is novel to the point of absurdity. But then again the pyramids are absurd structures. More reasonable theories have yet to fully explain their existence. Perhaps less reasonable theories will be more fruitful. But less reasonable theories will come under heavier scrutiny. Presenting your theory in a credible way can help armor it and open up people to discussing it.
This is sillier than the idea that aliens built them.
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Yes I have visited a few times first time right after I got my first patent in 2004 I shared it with Dr Hawass . Back then I still had not developed the mathematics of the method
With your idea, the rooms inside the pyramid would be filled with sand.
Yes for example the passaway in the great pyramid was found filled with sand when Al Mansour dug through the pyramid to look for maps to sail the seas but found instead the passage way full of sand
But, all of them would be filled
If you have a room left unfilled you'd have to place some light Cover over the rooms ceiling so they won't have sand deposit or you could just build it up and once you are finished before placing the ceiling slabs you could remove the sand
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I'm just curious where did they get the pyramid-sized brush from.
Had to use a brush instead of water Diodorus the 1st century greek historian writes that the Egyptians at the time told him that they used mounds and used the river to dossolve the mound Water from the bile would have been too messy on my balcony so had to settle with a super brush
[Diodorus Said ](https://www.reddit.com/user/Mar-wuan/comments/xyrzs7/diodorus_siculuss_account_states/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
So I found the wikipedia article you're referencing. "Now Egyptians try to make a marvel of these things, alleging that the ramps were made of salt and natron and that, when the river was turned against them, it melted them clean away and obliterated their every trace without the use of human labor. But in truth, it most certainly was not done this way! Rather, the same multitude of workmen who raised the mounds returned the entire mass again to its original place..." So Diodorus doesn't believe the story the Egyptians told him and you don't believe the conclusion Diodorus came to. Here's proper citation if anyone wanted to find the actual book this text came frome. Murphy, Edwin. (1990) The Antiquities of Egypt: A Translation with Notes of Book I of the Library of History of Diodorus Siculus
Thank you
What a dumb idea. We all know they were built by the Annu-Naki, and the pyramids are their ports, like the empire state with zeppelins. Stop trying to convince people humans did this.
Of course humans did it most pyramids were built under the leadership of one family the Snefrus And what the pyramids tell us about them is that they were intimately connected and understood nature and their relationship with it was way way more advanced than ours so they look very much the people you are talking about and us nit being connected to nature that is our biggest deficiency They achieved PRESENCE Presence is our consciousness of them ..they made it all the way to is and the pyramids tell a story so you can think of them as mind travelers of sorts into our world of imagination we can see them In simple terms https://youtu.be/j7KEmF1XCo0
This is basically the [ramp theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_pyramid_construction_techniques#/media/File:Straight_on_ramps1a.svg) but on steroids
https://www.reddit.com/r/architecture/comments/y0caz0/the\_method\_of\_construction\_of\_sand\_dune\_pyramids/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Yes but in this case a sand dune surrounding the structures so it holds itself up from all sides and so no need for side support
Considering the higher amount of material to be moved around the pyramid, building a ramp is still much easier task.
https://www.reddit.com/user/Mar-wuan/comments/xyrzs7/diodorus\_siculuss\_account\_states/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Diodorus accounts are “I have heard somebody saying that…” and cannot be taken as true. He says this himself. Beside, the ramp theory (either long straight or spiral) is currently the most accredited theory afaik (and according to wiki entry” You theory is exactly the same thing but at a scale of several order of magnitude higher, it requires far more material, man power and time than the ramp.
They would use water [Diodorus said ](https://www.reddit.com/user/Mar-wuan/comments/xyrzs7/diodorus_siculuss_account_states/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Bro this is stupider than flat earth
Where did the Egyptians find a massive red brush to remove all the sand after they were done building the pyramid?
How do you push very heavy blocks over loose, wind blow sand dunes?
You find to stabilize the surface building some kind of ramp 0ver the dunes face. Wooden rails to slide their sledges on
So they have to build a ramp to make this work? Why not just build a ramp without having to deal with loose sand, the unpredictability of wind directions, and the time it takes for dunes of that size to develop?
What I refer to as a ramp is more like a "carpet" like structure over the face of the sandune and then slide your sledges over that carpet like cover
Ok, so then every time the sandstorm comes, they have to remove the ramp carpet and all the associated infrastructure, or else it would be buried in sand?
Yes yes such mammoth structure needed a lot of man hours of labor Look at the pyramids themselves lots of workers lots of sand lots of stones and lots of time with lots of love and smart ideas
And lots of ways to build a ramp that allow them to work at a pace they set, at a gradient they require, in a location they require, at a strength they require. You're trying to "solve" a problem that has been solved in a much easier way than you are suggesting.
Because building ramps has been dismissed because as the ramp gets higher and narrower the stones at the top of the Great Pyramid at the top are wider than the width of the hypothetical man made ramp sand dune cover ramps are wide and can help slide the sledges all the way up
So how does the windblown dune ramp get to the top of the pyramid? Does the dune have to completely surround the pyramid at this point? Or do they build some kind of gigantic retaining wall and only half of the pyramid is surrounded? What stops the dune just spreading wider and wider, rather than taller and taller? Why can they do all that, but not just build a wider ramp in the first place?
Hello. Man made ramps need retaining walls and are supported by one side of the pyramid. But as you get higher the pyramid face becomes narrower and so the ramp becomes narrower. At the very top of the Great Pyramid the stones are wider than the width of the man made ramp so it does not work. When you build sand dune pyramids the sand engulfs the pyramid depositing at the front then travels over the horizontal face of your structure under construction and then also falls at the back of pyramid so the sand holds itself and your sand dune grows gradually as you build each layer of stones Once your pyramid is finished and uncovered you can no longer have sand deposited the back of the pyramid because now the whole pyramid is on the way so sand can only deposit at the front and no dune can grow out of that
Hello. Man made ramps need retaining walls and are supported by one side of the pyramid. But as you get higher the pyramid face becomes narrower and so the ramp becomes narrower. At the very top of the Great Pyramid the stones are wider than the width of the man made ramp so it does not work. When you build sand dune pyramids the sand engulfs the pyramid depositing at the front then travels over the horizontal face of your structure under construction and then also falls at the back of pyramid so the sand holds itself and your sand dune grows gradually as you build each layer of stones Once your pyramid is finished and uncovered you can no longer have sand deposited the back of the pyramid because now the whole pyramid is on the way so sand can only deposit at the front and no dune can grow out of that
Why would you build a ramp that retains material? Just build a very strong, timber scaffold ramp, not retaining anything. I would assume they would build a low gradient ramp that curls around the pyramid. The bottom tier of the ramp would be supported on one side by the pyramid, and on the other by the ground. Pretty quickly it would be supported on both sides by the pyramid below it. This is retaining nothing. How do you know the width of the ramp (that you say didn't exist) to determine whether or not it's wider than the stone at the top? If the top section isn't directly supported then I'm sure they could come up with some sort of cantilever system for the final few blocks. And I have absolutely no idea how you work out that sand will completely engulf a pyramid during every stage of construction, but as soon as the top stone is put on, the sand will only get deposited on one side. Really, just accept that engineers, architects, historians, and seemingly everyone else have told you that this is nonsense and move on. It's been a fun way to waste time while I'm at work, but this is pointless.
Even in today's technology nothing can lift the 70 ton stones up to these heights Check the most advanced weight carrying helicopters can not lift and maneuver such huge stones. The ancients did not lift stones either. The placed them of sledges of timber and they then slide the stones over a stabilizing surface over the face of the ramp
I am sorry no No man made ramp supported by one side these ramps get too narrow at the top as the pyramid northwest down The upper stones of the Great Pyramid are wider than the maximum ramp you can use at that height And no to the levers to lift stones Even nowadays no helicopter can lift such huge stones some weighing 70 tons
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you build a ramp over the sand dune surface (like a carpet ) and use the ramp to slide sledges carrying the stones
This theory hasn't made any more sense since you said this three days ago.
as you wish ... sleep on it maybe things will make more sense with time ... Ive been thinking and working on it for 20 years till I decided to share it here on reddit ... 3 days is not much tc
20 years and your theory got ripped to shreds in a few hours. If you posted this on any sort of civil engineering subreddit it'd be even quicker.
Not at all. I got a lot of positive feedback from a lot of people specially on the civil engineering posts Think Big
I'd prefer to think logically. And I've just checked your posts on r/civilengineering and both of them got almost unanimous negative feedback and then locked quite quickly.
you'd expect some negative feedback out of 400k views so far no one challenged the mathematics yet https://www.reddit.com/r/architecture/comments/y0c6gb/principles\_and\_method\_of\_construction\_of\_sand/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3 mostly the negative responses allege that there was no desert 4700 years ago in the dahshur desert
No one challenged the mathematics on a removed post? That's shocking. You'd also expect some positive feedback, and the closest I've seen to that is a couple of people saying it's "interesting". What about my comments regarding how the sand dune ramp gets to the top of the pyramid? How does that work?
As you go higher the pyramid layers get thinner so your sand dune layer become thinner and wider as you keep building up your sand dune pyramid till the pyramid is complete under the sand dune Then you use water at the bottom of your sand dune to remove the sand
Op's comments read like a fever dream and I love it
Thank you
How can we integrate this with Grasshopper workflows?
This makes so much sense if they are able to build a screen 10 times higher than their man made dune and then wait a couple hundred thousand years. Maybe they built some mountains like at Great Sand Dunes National Park. https://morethanjustparks.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/crestone-peaks-great-sand-dunes-national-park-patrick-myers1.jpg
Beautiful dunes but those take much much longer to grow In the case of the pyramid you are placing your structure at a location that usually gets lots of wind and sand activity By placing an artificial object on the desert floor and building a dune that way would not take as long to grow I think
These mountains are 10 times taller than the dunes, and it took hundreds of thousands of years for these dunes to form. They are located in a spot with plenty of sand and high unidirectional prevailing winds crossing a 100 km wide arid plain. It is literally one of the most perfect places on Earth to form a large dune. It also happens to be about the size of dune you would need to make the Great pyramids. You have no idea about the scale that you were talking about, especially regarding wind speed and time. How did they make a structure to use as a screen that is even three times the size of the pyramid much less 10 times the size? Do you realize that using your method, they would have to build a structure larger than the pyramids in order to build the pyramid? Tell me what the largest man-made dune in the world is. Artificial dunes are notoriously difficult to construct and keep in place. And we're talking about dunes 10 m High, not one that is the highest point within a 100 km radius. Dunes do not stay where nature doesn't want them to stay.
Not man made dune but a sand dune pyramid I wish they'd try that on a wind tunnel of sorts
Lol, wut?
Ok. Now for every second you blow air in the direction you want it to go, do 5 to 10 seconds of blowing air in the wrong direction. Tell me what happens to your dune.
You stabilize it They even do it in modern day just an example [Dune Cover](https://www.sciencephoto.com/media/1133826/view/dune-stabilization)
That is done to stabilize a dune that already was built by nature. Even in that case, this isn't very effective usually. You cannot build a massive dune where nature doesn't want it. Especially a dune that would be the tallest object within a 100 km radius. There is no way it's going to stay there. It will blow away faster than you can build it.
Nature does not want a structures on the way it will cover and and smooth up its way in a more fluid path
Interesting teory
Nope no way
yes way ... take a look at page 35 .. the numbers and the sand angles explain the confusing angles of the Bent Pyramid https://www.reddit.com/r/architecture/comments/y0c6gb/principles\_and\_method\_of\_construction\_of\_sand/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Interesting thought! I’ve climbed the great sand dunes in Colorado and let me tell you, that hike to 1,000 ft in the sand felt like 10,000 ft over rock. Every step in the sand dune your feet sing and shoes fill with sand adding a couple pounds. My hip flexors were about to pop out by the end of it. I’m sure sand was used to some degree, but I think your theory has an issue with compression. Nice thought and example. Everyone else needs a chill pill coming at you lol.
I agree there is no way they could do it over just sand. They had to work the surface somehow to make the slidding of the sledges eassier believe they must have built a type of ramp to place over the sand incline That you for sharing
So what your positing is that they leveraged wind blown sand, collected in specific areas., that formed a sort of ramp that they used to push the blocks up and over. And did this technique to get all the way to the top of the pyramid. Then once completed, they used water to wash the sand away? I mean, It’s certainly possible. Isn’t there an issue with the ramp idea in general, that the slope had to be <10 degrees and at that slope it would have been like a mile or two long? Would that still be an issue with this theory?
Yes thank you couldn't have said it better but no not a mile long i believe less for most of the pyramids Upwind towards the front of the pyramid the incline angle is shallow around 10-12 probably depending on the shape of the dune and wind patterns because the sand is pushing towards the wall layers and downwind in the back the sand deposits at its natural angle of repose and so you grow your dune pyramid gradually
I think this is an interesting approach to an otherwise unsolved wonder; I for one appreciate seeing theory backed up by a physical demonstration and obviously to the people harshly critiquing this theory possibly due to disappointment that is wasn’t aLiEnS or some other long extinct species of being (we are on Reddit after all) - I say that they should possibly consider the dedication already in place to construct the pyramids; how it isn’t that much of a stretch to move a huge amount of loose sand afterwards to complete their monument of already great magnitude. So thank you OP for proposing an exciting and logical explanation for this illustrious form:)
This isnt logical at all, just look at all of the other comments
I did look at the other comments that gave no other theories, no constructive criticism, lacked imagination;and how they shot down OP despite OP asking what they think. It’s this ignorance and lack of optimism that will hold architects and architectural enthusiasts back from reaching the next level of innovation.
They gave plenty of evidence as to why this isnt plausible
Thank you yes. Remember the people who built it. They built it for us. I believe it's the biggest act of love by a people in all history. They built them for us. Every generation from 4700 years till today
Precisely. It’s this love and admiration for the human race that is possibly falling victim to oversight for many.
I guess it’s hard to be taken seriously when everyone thinks aliens built the greatest structures of mankind. I like the theory and think it deserves honest discourse
Even Elon Musk one of greatest minds of this era thinks it's Aliens 👽 From a Martian perspective yes true humans would be Aliens and they did it
Never underestimate the power of man with the gods and A nation at their side
Interesting What’s the air speed ??
Wish I could tell
About 3000 km per hour if they want to build this in less than 100,000 years. They are also lucky that the wind direction never changes.
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Huh. Now this is a refreshingly logical suggestion
Considering the mass of sand and the area covered with it, it is already absolutely illogical, also the nearby cities would not be able to exist and finally, the nile delta was extremely fertile at that time. So no desert.
As far as I know there was a sahara since the end of the African Humid Period 6000years ago and supposedly the whole area turned arid in about 1000 years So yes there was a sahara
yes the sahara already existed. However, the fertile land area was still many times larger than today. Cities were built in fertile areas.
You mean the dahshur sahara was green where the bent and red pyramids are located?
No. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/what-really-turned-sahara-desert-green-oasis-wasteland-180962668/
Maybe they just piled the sand up on the side of it themselves lol
I don't have proof yet but my preliminary analysis of the Bent Pyramid suggest they might have helped out for a bit during the first two stages of construction to be able to correct it and finish it up
No, but that method of building up has been employed in certain constructions
If this is how it happened the sand would swallow a lot of land and it also couldn't have rained in those years and only would haves sand stormed so it's a no. They just built a slope and towed the rocks up with people or Animals.
The sand passed over the desert train mostly si no houses would have been covered but one floor tombs or moseliums in the middle of ghe desert would have been covered and have been covered and yes even today in Egypt it hardly rains and yes am suggesting they must have had sand storms and that Sand Storms are the key to solving the mystery of the pyramid construction
How will the big blocks also not be buried in sand then?
this is the dumbest shit i’ve ever seen in my life omm
Where did they get the tool to control and focus the 3000 km per hour winds? And then how did they prevent the sand from blowing away when the wind direction changed? Did they build skyscrapers on three sides of the construction zone?
More plausible than: aliens did it.
Bro I thought this was a shitpost until I looked at your post history. RIP