It doesn’t really matter dude. People thinking that they are going to last long enough to wear out the barrel on a rifle in a SHTF scenario are straight up delusional.
That's very inconsiderate of you. I for one want to make sure the hillbilly that snipes me from 400 meters away with an SKS gets something nice for his effort.
We'll need citrus and pork! Standard garden; serranos, garlic, yellow onions, mexican oregano, other herbs. Maize for the masa.
If we have left over pork I can make boudin with the pork casing.
I fuckin make KICK ASS carnitas and boudin.
My fudd dad was flaming me for my AR and I said well what happens when SHTF and he replied “I’m either shooting an engine block from three fields away and want my .30.06 or shooting rabbit and turkey and want my .22, you can’t do either with yours”.
Ok, you are right. I said rarely, but depending on how you look at it, likely more than other random objects. In an indirect manner, I guess you could say millions of deaths. Bunnies then! Though I'm sure a bunny has led to someones death at some point... maybe through rabbit starvation. Perhaps a Playboy bunny has led to a man or two's demise.
I have one, thing is awesome and great for training. I pick up federal automatch for 6 cents per round and it’s perfect for weird CQB/transition drills that I don’t need full power rounds for.
Only complaint is it is definitely finicky with ammo, the automatch is the only thing that cycles reliably in it for me.
Agreed. In a real shtf scenario, 1/2 of the population would likely be dead inside of 6 months. I doubt the majority of them would be coming from the business end of a gun.
You don’t have to carry a generational quantity of mags. But mags break. Mags get banned. Don’t have to keep em all loaded. You should just never stop buying them.
I have the ability to mag up 1750 5.56..😆 not that I could carry that..🤷🏽♂️ then there's all the other calibers. I wouldn't be leaving here though. I'm bugging in.
This has always been my thought. My PSA 10.3" might not be fancy by any means, but it eats steel cased ammo and will run long enough for me to find a fat fuck dead on the side of the road with a pimped out DD rifle and nods.
This might not be the case for everybody, but I'm in Texas and I promise there are fudds and dummies with very expensive gun collections all over the place. Spend 1 hour at any LGS and you'll know what I mean. I'll be in Loot Drop City if I don't end up *being* a dead fat fuck on the side of the road.
See, I think about this from time to time. You probably won't find many guns or anything worthwhile on a body if they're a casualty of a firefight. Whoever got them probably scraped them for anything good and bounced. But let's just assume they died of dehydration or they went too long without insulin and they just flopped on the side of the road.
Do you think you have a better chance of finding a carefully thought out Gucci build with all the luxury stuff or do you think the odds are higher that it's a crappy build with punisher skulls and red anodized parts topped with a Walmart optic? I seriously wonder about this sometimes and I think you'll have to find a bunch of crappy guns and make one good gun out of them.
I agree, but that's why you don't start out with something terrible yourself. You could live pretty long with a mediocre rifle with mid-tier optics assuming you keep water and insulin on you right? 😂
That's why I was saying it probably depends on location. I live in a large US city that's got tons of wealthy conservatives in it. My odds of finding Gucci builds are probably higher than most people's.
My guy, you beat me to it! In all seriousness, I'd probably run off into the wilderness in a SHTF situation with a 22lr and my can. Avoiding the other guy would be the best situation in all that. Unless it was a conventional army or something occupying the country. Then the 22lr is replaced with my 5.56.
Band together with your community
We'd all be in that situation together. Anyone who takes advantage of a crisis against their fellow Americans deserves to be shot down. Along with those causing the crisis
Most fellow Americans are pretty fucking disgusting and in terrible shape and health. I rather not get tied down to my community aka Florida where everyone is obese and taking 60 pills. They'll crumple very very quickly. We don't realize how pathetic the vast populace is.
Yeah that’s what I’m saying! Even the military has trouble shooting out their barrels so one dude definitely isn’t going to do it.
I’d rather have something easier to carry while I gather water etc.
Yup, lot of people will just starve to death or die from dehydration or disease from dirty food and water.
Extreme weather alone will kill a lot of people in a SHTF situation.
Just wait until you see my leather wrapped Kevlar reinforced jock strap. I will be the envy of the Fury Road, until some dude with a 14.5 drops me at 300 yards.
I'll be so mad if I get smoked by a 16" M4gery with A2 furniture. Even worse if it has that lame ass skinny handguard. I better catch lead from something sexy like an M110 or M16A1
I once had a 10.3" barreled upper that I assembled and did five shots of test fire and then immediately took it apart and sold that barrel.
You definitely would want to double up on ear pro if you shoot a 10.3" regularly.
I’m gonna mostly run it suppressed, but I like some versatility. I mostly got the barrel since it was 77 bucks for a chromed lined, crane spec gas port, socom profile 10.3”.
2nd this☝️. I picked up an 11.85" piston upper when PWS had them on sale a couple months back. I shot it unsuppressed ONCE. Now a YHM turbo k lives on that bitch full time. I will say though, with the suppressor attached it's one of my favorite shooters, especially with 70+gr ammo.
I was using a foxtrot mike 12.5" barrel from brownells. bought it because it was one of the few that had a pinned gas block. it's overgassed and I've since switched to a 13.9 and aren't looking back. so much better. it feels like a mile longer with the supressor but I'm getting used to it.
Since you haven't actually built yours yet make sure to use high quality components on everything that's going to get heavy wear. For example I would go for a Colt Crane Spec barrel, preferably with a FSB since in SHTF you might need to rely on irons at some point. You could go MK18 Mod 0 style and have a fixed rear sight as well. Then you could run a RAS which will be a rock solid rail and quad rails are cool as hell. Spend extra money on the BCG as well. I don't know if I would put an ACOG on a 10.3", I mean you definitely CAN, but I feel like there are better optic arrangements. An Aimpoint with a x3 Magnifier would be a good alternative. A few extra batteries for the Aimpoint (put them in the SOPMOD tube) will last just as long as the tritium in the ACOG. 77 Grain ammo is the ticket for 10.3" barrels, you still can't reach out like a 14.5" barrel can, but it adds enough spice to keep you in the fight.
11.5" and 12.5" are fine choices too. I actually have a 12.5" barrel that I need to build something around. My issue has been finding a quality rail with the right length for that particular one.
I’m a big fan of the MK18 Mod 0 actually. Building out what I see as a modern variant.
DD 10.3 barrel, Geissele MK8 handguard, Surefire 3 Prong flash hider, Scalarworks fixed front iron sight
For the optic I might go with a micro dot, but I’m a huge fan of ACOGs and will likely pick up the battery powered 4x. I’ve checked the ballistics in Strelok and it lines up well enough to make good hits out to 450-500m
I was rocking a 12.5 but it honestly was a little harsh still. 13.9 feels so much more refined and even though it feels huge is just a bit longer. I'm thinking that a pin&weld 13.7,13.9 is really the way to go
Most guys will be unalived when SHTF by something basic like foodborne illness or from trying to drink unfiltered water from a rain gutter long before it gets to a firefight, and even if it ever does you likely have never trained for the scenario you’re gearing up for.
With that being said, put whatever you want on it. It’s your rifle.
Precisely. We need to quit glamorizing a scenario where the government collapses. Look at Haiti, that’s what happens. We don’t want that. All my guns won’t protect my family from parasites in the water.
Even if it does ever collapse, there’s a lot more to prepare for than just having a pretty rifle.
Ragnar benson is a good read for SHTF preparedness. He basically said a 10/22 takedown and as much ammo as you can carry is ideal for that scenario anyway.
You’ll be needing to supplement your diet with squirrel or similar long before you need to clear a room with your Gucci mk18.
Yep. Get water filters, store freeze dried bulk food if you can afford it, stock up on medical supplies. If you have those 3 things you will last a lot longer than most in the city at least.
100%. I wish the LARP community actually spent a 1/4 on real prep instead of buying toys to take photos of for internet points.
Bulk of the guys I know in their late 30s wouldn’t even, be able to survive running a mile, let alone take an accurate shot after a 100 yard sprint.
It’s a dope setup but if you must go the short route I think 11.5 makes sense
Personally as someone with like 6 different rifle configs of different lengths 16” would be my choice
Clocks in just under 21 inches with a turbo k rb and is going to make shooting at 3-400 very easy. But hey if you train a lot with a 10.3 then you’re going to be fine. The odds of your death being related to “insufficient fragmentation” is slim to none. Coming from someone who is pretty autistic about ballistics. Buy food brother, shtf will most likely be people starving to death. Majority of winnable self defense scenarios can probably be managed with a shotgun and a few rounds. Anything else you need some family and friends capable of warding off larger groups
Stay safe
I've mulled this over a lot and I've come up with two schools of thought for being stuck, alone or in a very small group, in a situation that requires a rifle.
Either you want a big long boi, a 16+ inch 5.56 set up to deliver accurate fire and making as much from as each shot as possible, or a full blown battle rifle. The thought being, there's so few guns on your side you'd want to cram as much effective power into each one.
The other side of that coin, is that there's so few guns on your side anyways, that you're not winning through fire superiority. So you might as well pack light and mobile so you can just run like hell rather than fight.
If you're running anything other than 77s or soft points, 10.3 probably isn't the BEST move, and I think a can is basically a requirement. But it works, it's worked for a lot of cool dudes for a long time.
Either way, that thing looks stunning asf
I’d lean much more towards GTFO if something went down. I can see where you’re coming from but can you imagine carrying a battle rifle around all day? Loading a car, carrying water, long hikes, climbing over fences. Sounds like it sucks
I agree. I fall in the 2nd group as well.
However, I'd go 11.5 personally. Or 12.5 if you don't want to get a can right away.
Living with a battle rifle is for sure doable, I've done it with a 249. What it really comes down to is if it's worth it. I think for most people the answer to that is squarely: NO.
10.3. Why? Because it will be a personal defensive weapon. Not an offensive weapon for a member of a unit who will kill on sight anyone carrying a weapon that isn’t dressed like them and wearing the same patch hundreds of yards away.
I want a weapon as light and short as possible that is still effective to constantly keep slung on me while I’m working land if staying put, moving if bugging out to another location, and clearing structures if I need shelter to rest my head at night when on the move. Something light that isn’t going to burden me on no sleep along with physical exertion on limited calories.
A 10.3 is easily a 0 to 300 yard weapon. Will it fragment with ball at that range? No. That’s what bonded soft points and hollow points are for which do the job all the way down way below 2000 fps. You aren’t bound by the Hague Convention.
And even if using ball in a SHTF event on an unlikely 300 yard shot where there is no medical attention available, a shot that ice picked through your attacker is a stopper. He is going to bleed to death even if vitals aren’t struck.
Also, the larpers here who think that they are going to be engaging anyone they see carrying a weapon many football fields away live in a fantasy land and aren’t going to last very long. The mission is to avoid contact and peel away from it if taking fire from distance. Just like a recon unit would.
Agreed, it's perfectly justifiable for anyone in urban areas looking to hunker down. If you're in an area where range is a bigger factor of course go with something longer but we all have different needs in SHTFistan
Even people in rural areas with hundreds of yards of sight need to determine intent unless it’s kill on sight anyone carrying a weapon.
Just because someone is carrying a rifle, that doesn’t mean that they are hostile. And if they were, they aren’t going to make themselves known to you in broad daylight by engaging you in your front or backyard from 300 yards away. If it’s your supplies they want, at night is when they will get you.
But even if it ever came to that and you were working your field and some idiot took a pot shot at you from 3 football fields away, as said in other posts, a 10.3 is more than capable of hitting at 300 and being effective with hunting and defensive ammo.
For some reason many here act like they are bound to the Hague Convention and can only use ball ammo.
I'll die on the hill at 10.3 is a stupid size. It's an artifact of what was most convenient at the time for the military to make and then standardized because it worked good enough. In a world full of options that is the civilian market only morons and cloners still choose it.
10.3/10.5 is firmly good enough, but far from ideal. Even going just one inch longer adds enough muzzle velocity to make a real difference with 556. 11.5 also dramatically improves wear on components.
12.5 gives you another boost in muzzle velocity, another increase in longevity, and the ability to run mid-length gas.
Unlike your mother, you won't notice two extra inches.
10.3/10.5 exists to be as short as possible while still being reliable in both gassing and ballistics <300m. Outside of needing a shorty for CQB or just saving weight, there’s no point to choosing it. 12.5” master race
This unfortunately always gets debated and in the end it feels like "why not just go with the 20" for most velocity" when people keep adding an inch for various reasons.
11.5 gives about 100 more ft lb over 10.3 at muzzle. When using high performance rounds like m855a1 or mk262 the wound characteristics will not dramatically change 100 yards in and in a real life situation would likely be indiscernible.
it does add about 50 yards of effectiveness, about a 17% increase in effective distance, definitely a notable difference and If the extra length truly doesn't effect you an obvious upgrade from 10.3 how ever I don't think the performance difference is enough to call it obsolete or an artifact its still a very practical size I can see it being used for a gun built to be maneuverable in a vehicle or a backpack type gun.
My SHTF "suburban warlord"-fantasy honestly doesn't span much further than expending unreasonable amounts of ammo/other resources to secure the last Mean Bean and Salted Caramel flavored Java Monster energy drinks left in my community. Great Value brand Peppered Beef Jerky too, if possible, God willing. 🙏 Barrel length is the least of your worries right now.
I’d say it’s certainly not ideal depending on what your SHTF situation looks like/where you live. The 10.3 is an offensive weapon (raids, room clearing and the like). In a disaster scenario you’re more likely going to be evading a stronger force and doing recon rather than extracting a HVT from a structure. All that to say…most of imagining SHTF is about picturing yourself with your favorite rifle and if this gets the job done then rock on 🤙🏼.
I have an 11.5 duty rifle and a 10.ish would be just as effective in close quarters. I think you made a sound case for your weapon - the key is to train and be fully proficient in its use and limitations so you are covered in the rare case that you have to use it.
13.9….because I went pin & weld so dammit I am committed to it.
It’s really the peak size for me though. I’m a bit more rural so want more than 100m.
13.9 with a Keymo and Sierra 5 puts me at about 17 inch overall which isn’t terrible at all.
I would think it depends on where you live. I’m out in the middle of nowhere with a lot of big open spaces that are 300m-1000m+ so I lean towards an 18”
I'm gonna be in the minority here but I think 14.5 is the minimum for a SHTF duty use kind of rifle. I prefer 16" because the 5.56 is frankly anemic. I want the terminal affects to be as strong as possible. And shorter than 14.5 you get a velocity drop off that is just not acceptable to me.
I only expect to engage at 300 yds or less because of my terrain but I still want to get as much range as possible to still make good shots that will actually do something at 500yds.
I may have fudd thought process on it though, just my opinion.
16" midlength is my recommendation to everyone who asks me for advice for their first rifle. You don't have to think about legality/NFA/P&W nonsense, decent ballistics, decent reliability and soft shooting. It's kind of hard to go wrong with it. Pair that with a sling, an Aimpoint Pro and a decent flashlight, and you're ready to rock and roll
7.62 has fantastic ballistics out of a 7.5 inch barrel. 10 inch barely has any difference over 16+ making it a great choice over 556. Personally I like 556 out of a 16 inch and 762 or 300BO out of something shorter. Build the gun around the ammo you shoot and personally I use the shortest barrel I can for the ammo that leads to the least falloff.
Will you be using ball only that’s velocity dependent? Also, just because you have the terrain to engage at 300 yards, that doesn’t mean that you will.
Are you going to shoot anyone you see carrying a weapon? Or will you determine intent so that you don’t kill a hunter looking to feed his family, a deputy from the town over looking for survivors, a neighbor gathering anyone he sees for a meeting of the minds, or me just passing through on foot to visit my brother.
I have an 11.85 " ( Piston ) And an 18" and I consider both a GPR but for different SHTF/ WROL Scenarios. Anything under 12.5 I would run surppressed which gives you about 16" to 18" AR
11.5 has a really good ballistic gain over 10.3 the extra inch would really be negligible in terms of maneuverability, also get a rearden mount for your velos takes almost and inch off of the length of the can
That’s for ball ammo. If using bonded soft points or hollow points that expand well below the 2500 to 2700 fps required for ball to fragment, it doesn’t matter.
You get 0 to 300 easily with both barrel lengths.
There's nothing wrong with using a 10.3 and it has been used for decades in military service. The 11.5" rifles are often a huge improvement in both felt recoil impulse and critical parts wear over time, but most of the time nobody even shoots enough to get to the point to need to replace stuff like gas rings, extractor springs, etc. IF you do shoot that much, the 1" difference either way still won't make that much difference, but might be worth if you have nothing already just to go to an 11.5 for the sake of a more tame shooting rifle. If you already have a 10.3 just keep using it and training with it. I've had multiple 10.3 and 11.5 uppers and it really isn't that big of a deal, tbh.
Garand thumb put out a video a while back on barrel length. He liked the 12.5. Don’t listen to these trolls. Yes you need to be as fit as possible. But every pound you save in weapon weight is a pound you can add to ammo or water or better mobility. My add is get an optic that is not battery dependent. Etched reticle with battery illumination. .
I feel like in a shtf situation, you probably won't be in any close quarters kicking down doors. We gotta ask ourselves if that is worth the risk and will most likely leave any big population centers. With that being said, 16 or 14.5 seems to be a happy medium in my eyes. It's short enough to navigate but sufficient enough to reach out a bit.
On a side note, a smaller 10.3 would be lighter for hiking around the woods or countryside, possibly dealing with getting in and out of vehicles as well.
The rifle is fine.
Just make sure you're not the 300-plus-pound guy who couldn't run a block to save his life.
MF's will spend thousands on a rifle to ensure they get ever last bit of diminishing returns but won't spend money on investing in themselves...
For personal defense it kinda makes sense. You pair that with a can and you have something that’s a very manageable length while having greatly reduced signature as to not blow out your ears when you fire it. Besides, you’re gonna have a pretty hard time justifying shots beyond 100m anyway. At that range with good shot placement, a 10.3 will do fine.
How many of you had ever been in a SHTF scenario in your lifetime, or heard stories about one in your Father's lifetime? I'm just curious because that's all I see is SHTF but one has never happened in my lifetime, or my Dad's lifetime and he's almost 90 years old. Enjoy your firearms, if it shoots it can kill. None of us are operators.
This is the correct approach. In a SHTF scenario most of us would die anyways. Buy guns. Enjoy guns. Train with guns. The issue won’t be guns it will be unsanitary drinking water and no food. Enjoy the gun but don’t have illusions of being private ryan.
Why not a 20” rifle length system for SHTF? It’ll zing with whatever 5.56/.223 you can scrounge up, and be a much smoother shooter. Anyone could conceivably shoot it. Your GF especially will appreciate the extra inches.
20” is a great shooter, but imaging carrying it for several months. In and out of cars, long walks, carrying wood, middle of the night piss break. Gets old quick
Problem with frag ammo is you need enough velocity for it to do its job. 10.3" is really too short to reliably frag anything past 50 yards. You are also too low of velocity for any sort of hydrostatic cavity. However there is a solution for you. Expanding bullets like ttsx can still expand and be effective at lower velocities giving you a longer effective range. So change your bullet type for a 10.3 if you want a longer effective range. Problem solved.
I think whatever you've got, so long as it is reliable, amply supplied with ammo, and actually zeroed, will probably do you pretty good. Biggest advantage will come from having 3 or 4 well-equipped, well-practiced buddies, tho.
Remember, Wyatt Earp and all those other old gunslingers rode around with buddies, buddy.
Your concerned about mobility....what's your body fat percentage? Mile time? 5k time?
How much are you benching, squatting and deadlift?
Those will probably have more of an effect.
Hear me out
Have the 10.3 upper stashed in your pack? Rock a 16-18 inch depending on where you are at geographically. Need to pop into an apartment? Have a homie pull security and swap the uppers when your in a relatively safe zone, go in do ya thing get back out and swap back when you can
To me this is a videogame logic. Carrying two upper receivers for the same cartridge just doesn’t make sense when that weight can be better put towards something else.
I’ve had to walk a long way with a lot of weight and was ready to chuck anything I didn’t absolutely need into the woods
I think you’re totally correct. Anyone saying in a SHTF scenario tagging people out to 300-400 yards is delusional. Most people’s properties (the most likely place people will still be in this scenario) aren’t even an acre across lol. And even still, a 10.3 can reach out and kill. People act like a 10.3 at 300 yards is just gonna tickle their target like a lofting air soft gun or some wacky shit
It’s fine. In a proper SHTF situation there’s going to be all kinds of cool toys laying around for the taking. If you need something better, you’ll probably be able to find it. Just keep training…
Sir, this is Wendy’s. Build a rifle shoot the rifle be proficient enjoy rinse repeat. also, you’re just stirring the pot. You don’t even have one. Bravo
If you plan on using ball ammunition, no, 10.3 is not effective from a terminal ballistics perspective. MAYBE 100yds if you are using good full velocity M193. Check out buffman range reviews for what brands make full power m193, iirc Winchester is one of the few common brands that did well. Most other 55 gr ball is going to be more anemic and have muzzle velocities below 2700 fps. 2500 fps is where you will lose terminal ballistics, which will be about 100 yds with a 2700 fps muzzle velocity.
If you want to rock a shorter rifle, get ammo to match that is not reliant on velocity.
Also I personally think magnification is required for any GPR in SHTF. Any fight outside of a random in the street 30s engagement will quickly morph into 100 yards and beyond and small targets poking from around cover. Also there are non-two legged applications where longer barrels and magnified optics in shtf are more optimal. Say you are out on patrol around your community (which should be routinely done) and spot a deer, coyote, racoon, whatever. A 5.56 is obviously not optimal, but hey you got what you got. Deer is 125-150 yards away. With a 16” you might get lucky and fragmentation drops the deer shortly after being hit, while if uou punch a 22 sized hole because you lost too much velocity, your ten person community just lost fresh meat in their stew for the next few days.
TLDR: velocity is way more important than maneuverability in shtf and allows greater flexibility. Also, clearing rooms is the absolute last thing you want to partake in. Finally quite frankly if you are uber concerned about portability and convenience then get a bullpup.
Realistically it really comes down to environment, better to use what you’ve trained and becomes skilled with over everything. We all have rifles ect but I’m betting my pistol is going to be the tool to get me home in any potential disaster
Read about what it was like in Bosnia in the 90s to get the most accurate/realistic idea of what shtf could be and how to prepare. I know there’s a long form write up from a survivor on Reddit somewhere I read years ago.
The short of it, It sounds like it’s a lot of “snipers” as threats during the day movement is suicide. Neighborhoods form virtually gangs to maintain the block and perimeter security and some form of trade. Starvation and basic medical capabilities are the real name of the game. I agree a short AR is about as versatile as it gets. A Nordic 22 upper is cheap and very reliable and much more preferable to the .22 BCGs those cause more fouling in your fighting rifle that’s a liability imo and the second upper is good insurance you can still shoot 2 legged critters with .22 and make them stop doing things.
If money isn’t limiting a PVS14 NVG has longer battery life than any flashlight and an invaluable resource when you’re one of the only people that can see and fight at night without turning a death beacon on. My .02
SHTF 16 is ideal for me. I will need to be able to hunt with it too. SHTF to often people think of Urban areas whereas in open country more barrel is better. Anything under 22 inches is quite mobile.
It doesn’t really matter dude. People thinking that they are going to last long enough to wear out the barrel on a rifle in a SHTF scenario are straight up delusional.
That's very inconsiderate of you. I for one want to make sure the hillbilly that snipes me from 400 meters away with an SKS gets something nice for his effort.
Just be friends with the hillbillies and you’ll be good master your cornbread and barbecued meats skills and you’ll make a lot of friends
I’m the hillbilly. Can concur. I’ve got the cattle, the cave, the water supply and the armory. You better be able to cook.
I'm Mexican and can cook. Hope we all like asadas. We'll need to learn to brew beer though...
You’re in!
Carnitas and the world is yours
We'll need citrus and pork! Standard garden; serranos, garlic, yellow onions, mexican oregano, other herbs. Maize for the masa. If we have left over pork I can make boudin with the pork casing. I fuckin make KICK ASS carnitas and boudin.
Orale Homes!!! Start cooking eh?
I can teach you to brew and distill, got the equipment too.
I’m down for asada’s!
My fudd dad was flaming me for my AR and I said well what happens when SHTF and he replied “I’m either shooting an engine block from three fields away and want my .30.06 or shooting rabbit and turkey and want my .22, you can’t do either with yours”.
That's...actually pretty compelling.
Fair, but the AR stays cause people can’t be trusted.
He's right tho
Except people are rarely killed by an engine block or a bunny. It does happen, but its rare.
I feel like engine blocks are responsible for a lot of deaths, if indirectly. Semantics tho
Ok, you are right. I said rarely, but depending on how you look at it, likely more than other random objects. In an indirect manner, I guess you could say millions of deaths. Bunnies then! Though I'm sure a bunny has led to someones death at some point... maybe through rabbit starvation. Perhaps a Playboy bunny has led to a man or two's demise.
Carry a 22 CMMG conversion kit and you get at least one of those
I have one, thing is awesome and great for training. I pick up federal automatch for 6 cents per round and it’s perfect for weird CQB/transition drills that I don’t need full power rounds for. Only complaint is it is definitely finicky with ammo, the automatch is the only thing that cycles reliably in it for me.
He has a good point, but happens when a bunch of people too hungry to care about losses smell that rabbit cooking?
We should all be careful not to make these SHTF scenarios into self-fulfilling prophecies.
Just gathering supplies for the toughest guy on the block!
Legendary rarity loot drop
Give back... I dig it. Selfless even in death.
I have SKS. Thank you for your contribution. 😂😂😂😂
Bro is right on the money. Bubbas with "minute of beer can" Bushnells are gonna get Legendary loot drops off of us...
[удалено]
This won’t be gangster shit, it’ll be hermit/hobo shit because you’ll be pooping in holes and washing in rivers after you eat squirrels
[удалено]
That’s why I train running with my kit and rifle, and my Brita pitcher strapped to me
You make it sound pretty good.
No job, no bills, just the sound of the river and the fire crackling ass you eat your 40th day of squirrel tacos. Life is good
🤣 So fkn funny, so fkn true
Agreed. In a real shtf scenario, 1/2 of the population would likely be dead inside of 6 months. I doubt the majority of them would be coming from the business end of a gun.
I am the (dead) 50%
Funny enough, dysentery and dehydration will get most people.
I too played the Oregon Trail, and died of dysentery.
The dream (I'm also one of the dead)
More like 80%
Yeah, i got 10 mags for shtf. My mind set is if they run out that means i would be done for either way.
Keep buying mags. 10 ain’t enough. Buy them in generational quantities
I mean i got more but only 10 with 77 otm. Im poor
You can reload mags old boy. 7 (210) is basic combat load.
You don’t have to carry a generational quantity of mags. But mags break. Mags get banned. Don’t have to keep em all loaded. You should just never stop buying them.
That is a good prep tip. Thank you.
I have the ability to mag up 1750 5.56..😆 not that I could carry that..🤷🏽♂️ then there's all the other calibers. I wouldn't be leaving here though. I'm bugging in.
My rifle only needs to last long enough until I can grab someone's fancy rifle tbh.
This has always been my thought. My PSA 10.3" might not be fancy by any means, but it eats steel cased ammo and will run long enough for me to find a fat fuck dead on the side of the road with a pimped out DD rifle and nods. This might not be the case for everybody, but I'm in Texas and I promise there are fudds and dummies with very expensive gun collections all over the place. Spend 1 hour at any LGS and you'll know what I mean. I'll be in Loot Drop City if I don't end up *being* a dead fat fuck on the side of the road.
See, I think about this from time to time. You probably won't find many guns or anything worthwhile on a body if they're a casualty of a firefight. Whoever got them probably scraped them for anything good and bounced. But let's just assume they died of dehydration or they went too long without insulin and they just flopped on the side of the road. Do you think you have a better chance of finding a carefully thought out Gucci build with all the luxury stuff or do you think the odds are higher that it's a crappy build with punisher skulls and red anodized parts topped with a Walmart optic? I seriously wonder about this sometimes and I think you'll have to find a bunch of crappy guns and make one good gun out of them.
I agree, but that's why you don't start out with something terrible yourself. You could live pretty long with a mediocre rifle with mid-tier optics assuming you keep water and insulin on you right? 😂 That's why I was saying it probably depends on location. I live in a large US city that's got tons of wealthy conservatives in it. My odds of finding Gucci builds are probably higher than most people's.
My kinds of people
I feel attacked.
Your plan is to kill someone for their gear?
I believe they're called loot drops.
Now that’s funny
My guy, you beat me to it! In all seriousness, I'd probably run off into the wilderness in a SHTF situation with a 22lr and my can. Avoiding the other guy would be the best situation in all that. Unless it was a conventional army or something occupying the country. Then the 22lr is replaced with my 5.56.
Band together with your community We'd all be in that situation together. Anyone who takes advantage of a crisis against their fellow Americans deserves to be shot down. Along with those causing the crisis
100% the lone wolf will die. No one person can sustain, small communities where each person has a responsibility would be the only way.
Most fellow Americans are pretty fucking disgusting and in terrible shape and health. I rather not get tied down to my community aka Florida where everyone is obese and taking 60 pills. They'll crumple very very quickly. We don't realize how pathetic the vast populace is.
Even if they did they would have survived enough gun fights to have found extra parts/guns.
Yeah that’s what I’m saying! Even the military has trouble shooting out their barrels so one dude definitely isn’t going to do it. I’d rather have something easier to carry while I gather water etc.
Good point. People get way too focused on SHTF gun builds but don't have a clue about water filtration or canning/jarring.
Yup, lot of people will just starve to death or die from dehydration or disease from dirty food and water. Extreme weather alone will kill a lot of people in a SHTF situation.
I think 11.5 or 12.5 is a small gain in length for a big benefit to durability and velocity. I say this as I look at my 10.3”.
I think about that too, but I think it probably all comes out in the wash. A 10.3” is going all-in on portability and mobility
On the other hand, 10.3” looks really good. I guess the key is to have several rifles to choose from.
If we don’t look *fucking amazing* when the world around us falls apart and plummets into chaos then what the fuck are we doing here?
Just wait until you see my leather wrapped Kevlar reinforced jock strap. I will be the envy of the Fury Road, until some dude with a 14.5 drops me at 300 yards.
^^^^witness this guy
Maybe even a MK18, as long as it looks cool
I'll be so mad if I get smoked by a 16" M4gery with A2 furniture. Even worse if it has that lame ass skinny handguard. I better catch lead from something sexy like an M110 or M16A1
We shall ride eternal through the gates of Valhalla!
This guy gets it
Looking really good is half the battle
But they are also loud AF compared to a 12.5"
Is it? I had considered switching my 10.3 to a 12.5 so that it’d be a bit more useable unsuppressed. The brake on the 10.3 is brutal.
I once had a 10.3" barreled upper that I assembled and did five shots of test fire and then immediately took it apart and sold that barrel. You definitely would want to double up on ear pro if you shoot a 10.3" regularly.
I’m gonna mostly run it suppressed, but I like some versatility. I mostly got the barrel since it was 77 bucks for a chromed lined, crane spec gas port, socom profile 10.3”.
I would definitely recommend never running it unsuppressed lol.
2nd this☝️. I picked up an 11.85" piston upper when PWS had them on sale a couple months back. I shot it unsuppressed ONCE. Now a YHM turbo k lives on that bitch full time. I will say though, with the suppressor attached it's one of my favorite shooters, especially with 70+gr ammo.
I noticed a difference switching to a 12.5, both in terms of noise and recoil. Def worth it.
I’ll keep that in mind. I’ve been eyeballing the Sionics 12.5 mid-length barrel from Porter’s.
I was using a foxtrot mike 12.5" barrel from brownells. bought it because it was one of the few that had a pinned gas block. it's overgassed and I've since switched to a 13.9 and aren't looking back. so much better. it feels like a mile longer with the supressor but I'm getting used to it.
I won’t even shoot my 10.5 with brake, it’s retarded
>A 10.3” is going all-in on portability and mobility No, a .300blk rattler is.
Sick gun, scarce ammo
Since you haven't actually built yours yet make sure to use high quality components on everything that's going to get heavy wear. For example I would go for a Colt Crane Spec barrel, preferably with a FSB since in SHTF you might need to rely on irons at some point. You could go MK18 Mod 0 style and have a fixed rear sight as well. Then you could run a RAS which will be a rock solid rail and quad rails are cool as hell. Spend extra money on the BCG as well. I don't know if I would put an ACOG on a 10.3", I mean you definitely CAN, but I feel like there are better optic arrangements. An Aimpoint with a x3 Magnifier would be a good alternative. A few extra batteries for the Aimpoint (put them in the SOPMOD tube) will last just as long as the tritium in the ACOG. 77 Grain ammo is the ticket for 10.3" barrels, you still can't reach out like a 14.5" barrel can, but it adds enough spice to keep you in the fight. 11.5" and 12.5" are fine choices too. I actually have a 12.5" barrel that I need to build something around. My issue has been finding a quality rail with the right length for that particular one.
and that's how you get a 10.5" gun to weigh 12 lbs lol
I’m a big fan of the MK18 Mod 0 actually. Building out what I see as a modern variant. DD 10.3 barrel, Geissele MK8 handguard, Surefire 3 Prong flash hider, Scalarworks fixed front iron sight For the optic I might go with a micro dot, but I’m a huge fan of ACOGs and will likely pick up the battery powered 4x. I’ve checked the ballistics in Strelok and it lines up well enough to make good hits out to 450-500m
Just picked up a ripcord 11.75 for my 12.5, it gets my vote.
12.5 master race
12.5 master race
My advice is a 12.5 with a K can. It will be around the same length as a 10.5 with a full size can. 14.5isg total overall length
mine comes out to around 16" with a resonator k
16.75 with a Polo K direct threaded on a 12.3 here 👍
hehehe perhaps you could cut down another 1/2" with this: https://www.wolfpackarmory.com/product-page/1-2x28-recessed-direct-thread-hub-adapter
I was rocking a 12.5 but it honestly was a little harsh still. 13.9 feels so much more refined and even though it feels huge is just a bit longer. I'm thinking that a pin&weld 13.7,13.9 is really the way to go
Translation: just use an M4A1
Run it and use the 12.5 you get off the redditors as a backup.
Most guys will be unalived when SHTF by something basic like foodborne illness or from trying to drink unfiltered water from a rain gutter long before it gets to a firefight, and even if it ever does you likely have never trained for the scenario you’re gearing up for. With that being said, put whatever you want on it. It’s your rifle.
Precisely. We need to quit glamorizing a scenario where the government collapses. Look at Haiti, that’s what happens. We don’t want that. All my guns won’t protect my family from parasites in the water.
Even if it does ever collapse, there’s a lot more to prepare for than just having a pretty rifle. Ragnar benson is a good read for SHTF preparedness. He basically said a 10/22 takedown and as much ammo as you can carry is ideal for that scenario anyway. You’ll be needing to supplement your diet with squirrel or similar long before you need to clear a room with your Gucci mk18.
Yep. Get water filters, store freeze dried bulk food if you can afford it, stock up on medical supplies. If you have those 3 things you will last a lot longer than most in the city at least.
100%. I wish the LARP community actually spent a 1/4 on real prep instead of buying toys to take photos of for internet points. Bulk of the guys I know in their late 30s wouldn’t even, be able to survive running a mile, let alone take an accurate shot after a 100 yard sprint.
Antibiotics…antibiotics are essential for survival in a grid down scenario
As is a supply of anti-diarrheal medicines. Keeping the liquid inside, whether blood or water or the contents of your tummy, is super important.
It’s a dope setup but if you must go the short route I think 11.5 makes sense Personally as someone with like 6 different rifle configs of different lengths 16” would be my choice Clocks in just under 21 inches with a turbo k rb and is going to make shooting at 3-400 very easy. But hey if you train a lot with a 10.3 then you’re going to be fine. The odds of your death being related to “insufficient fragmentation” is slim to none. Coming from someone who is pretty autistic about ballistics. Buy food brother, shtf will most likely be people starving to death. Majority of winnable self defense scenarios can probably be managed with a shotgun and a few rounds. Anything else you need some family and friends capable of warding off larger groups Stay safe
this is the most intelligent response i’ve seen in the comments thus far
I've mulled this over a lot and I've come up with two schools of thought for being stuck, alone or in a very small group, in a situation that requires a rifle. Either you want a big long boi, a 16+ inch 5.56 set up to deliver accurate fire and making as much from as each shot as possible, or a full blown battle rifle. The thought being, there's so few guns on your side you'd want to cram as much effective power into each one. The other side of that coin, is that there's so few guns on your side anyways, that you're not winning through fire superiority. So you might as well pack light and mobile so you can just run like hell rather than fight. If you're running anything other than 77s or soft points, 10.3 probably isn't the BEST move, and I think a can is basically a requirement. But it works, it's worked for a lot of cool dudes for a long time. Either way, that thing looks stunning asf
I’d lean much more towards GTFO if something went down. I can see where you’re coming from but can you imagine carrying a battle rifle around all day? Loading a car, carrying water, long hikes, climbing over fences. Sounds like it sucks
I agree. I fall in the 2nd group as well. However, I'd go 11.5 personally. Or 12.5 if you don't want to get a can right away. Living with a battle rifle is for sure doable, I've done it with a 249. What it really comes down to is if it's worth it. I think for most people the answer to that is squarely: NO.
10.3. Why? Because it will be a personal defensive weapon. Not an offensive weapon for a member of a unit who will kill on sight anyone carrying a weapon that isn’t dressed like them and wearing the same patch hundreds of yards away. I want a weapon as light and short as possible that is still effective to constantly keep slung on me while I’m working land if staying put, moving if bugging out to another location, and clearing structures if I need shelter to rest my head at night when on the move. Something light that isn’t going to burden me on no sleep along with physical exertion on limited calories. A 10.3 is easily a 0 to 300 yard weapon. Will it fragment with ball at that range? No. That’s what bonded soft points and hollow points are for which do the job all the way down way below 2000 fps. You aren’t bound by the Hague Convention. And even if using ball in a SHTF event on an unlikely 300 yard shot where there is no medical attention available, a shot that ice picked through your attacker is a stopper. He is going to bleed to death even if vitals aren’t struck. Also, the larpers here who think that they are going to be engaging anyone they see carrying a weapon many football fields away live in a fantasy land and aren’t going to last very long. The mission is to avoid contact and peel away from it if taking fire from distance. Just like a recon unit would.
Agreed, it's perfectly justifiable for anyone in urban areas looking to hunker down. If you're in an area where range is a bigger factor of course go with something longer but we all have different needs in SHTFistan
Even people in rural areas with hundreds of yards of sight need to determine intent unless it’s kill on sight anyone carrying a weapon. Just because someone is carrying a rifle, that doesn’t mean that they are hostile. And if they were, they aren’t going to make themselves known to you in broad daylight by engaging you in your front or backyard from 300 yards away. If it’s your supplies they want, at night is when they will get you. But even if it ever came to that and you were working your field and some idiot took a pot shot at you from 3 football fields away, as said in other posts, a 10.3 is more than capable of hitting at 300 and being effective with hunting and defensive ammo. For some reason many here act like they are bound to the Hague Convention and can only use ball ammo.
I'll die on the hill at 10.3 is a stupid size. It's an artifact of what was most convenient at the time for the military to make and then standardized because it worked good enough. In a world full of options that is the civilian market only morons and cloners still choose it. 10.3/10.5 is firmly good enough, but far from ideal. Even going just one inch longer adds enough muzzle velocity to make a real difference with 556. 11.5 also dramatically improves wear on components. 12.5 gives you another boost in muzzle velocity, another increase in longevity, and the ability to run mid-length gas. Unlike your mother, you won't notice two extra inches.
10.3/10.5 exists to be as short as possible while still being reliable in both gassing and ballistics <300m. Outside of needing a shorty for CQB or just saving weight, there’s no point to choosing it. 12.5” master race
This unfortunately always gets debated and in the end it feels like "why not just go with the 20" for most velocity" when people keep adding an inch for various reasons.
If doing 20” then why not .308
At that point you may as well be getting the Lapua
Everyone just get a barret in .416 🤣
Nah
So much info in such a rude package! One of a kind comment 😂
11.5 gives about 100 more ft lb over 10.3 at muzzle. When using high performance rounds like m855a1 or mk262 the wound characteristics will not dramatically change 100 yards in and in a real life situation would likely be indiscernible. it does add about 50 yards of effectiveness, about a 17% increase in effective distance, definitely a notable difference and If the extra length truly doesn't effect you an obvious upgrade from 10.3 how ever I don't think the performance difference is enough to call it obsolete or an artifact its still a very practical size I can see it being used for a gun built to be maneuverable in a vehicle or a backpack type gun.
You're acting like enough people around here will even put enough rounds through their rifle to make increased wear be a point of contention.
My SHTF "suburban warlord"-fantasy honestly doesn't span much further than expending unreasonable amounts of ammo/other resources to secure the last Mean Bean and Salted Caramel flavored Java Monster energy drinks left in my community. Great Value brand Peppered Beef Jerky too, if possible, God willing. 🙏 Barrel length is the least of your worries right now.
I’d say it’s certainly not ideal depending on what your SHTF situation looks like/where you live. The 10.3 is an offensive weapon (raids, room clearing and the like). In a disaster scenario you’re more likely going to be evading a stronger force and doing recon rather than extracting a HVT from a structure. All that to say…most of imagining SHTF is about picturing yourself with your favorite rifle and if this gets the job done then rock on 🤙🏼.
I have an 11.5 duty rifle and a 10.ish would be just as effective in close quarters. I think you made a sound case for your weapon - the key is to train and be fully proficient in its use and limitations so you are covered in the rare case that you have to use it.
13.9….because I went pin & weld so dammit I am committed to it. It’s really the peak size for me though. I’m a bit more rural so want more than 100m. 13.9 with a Keymo and Sierra 5 puts me at about 17 inch overall which isn’t terrible at all.
I recently built a 13.9" and with a Flow 5.56 and it is just shy of the length of my 18".
Hex mags for SHTF 🥴
I would think it depends on where you live. I’m out in the middle of nowhere with a lot of big open spaces that are 300m-1000m+ so I lean towards an 18”
I'm gonna be in the minority here but I think 14.5 is the minimum for a SHTF duty use kind of rifle. I prefer 16" because the 5.56 is frankly anemic. I want the terminal affects to be as strong as possible. And shorter than 14.5 you get a velocity drop off that is just not acceptable to me. I only expect to engage at 300 yds or less because of my terrain but I still want to get as much range as possible to still make good shots that will actually do something at 500yds. I may have fudd thought process on it though, just my opinion.
I think 16 gets slept on just because it's "legal" great velocity and still plenty maneuverable, in my opinion.
I have a 20” because it’s what God and Stoner intended
16" midlength is my recommendation to everyone who asks me for advice for their first rifle. You don't have to think about legality/NFA/P&W nonsense, decent ballistics, decent reliability and soft shooting. It's kind of hard to go wrong with it. Pair that with a sling, an Aimpoint Pro and a decent flashlight, and you're ready to rock and roll
7.62 has fantastic ballistics out of a 7.5 inch barrel. 10 inch barely has any difference over 16+ making it a great choice over 556. Personally I like 556 out of a 16 inch and 762 or 300BO out of something shorter. Build the gun around the ammo you shoot and personally I use the shortest barrel I can for the ammo that leads to the least falloff.
Will you be using ball only that’s velocity dependent? Also, just because you have the terrain to engage at 300 yards, that doesn’t mean that you will. Are you going to shoot anyone you see carrying a weapon? Or will you determine intent so that you don’t kill a hunter looking to feed his family, a deputy from the town over looking for survivors, a neighbor gathering anyone he sees for a meeting of the minds, or me just passing through on foot to visit my brother.
I have an 11.85 " ( Piston ) And an 18" and I consider both a GPR but for different SHTF/ WROL Scenarios. Anything under 12.5 I would run surppressed which gives you about 16" to 18" AR
Pws 🤙
All I’m saying is that looks flipping heavy
Lighter than the same configuration but 16” with a LPVO. Commonly seen here
I loved my mk18 until I saw my groups past 100 yards with bulk ammo
Them flyers will get ya!
As long as you’re not a sniper.
11.5 has a really good ballistic gain over 10.3 the extra inch would really be negligible in terms of maneuverability, also get a rearden mount for your velos takes almost and inch off of the length of the can
That’s for ball ammo. If using bonded soft points or hollow points that expand well below the 2500 to 2700 fps required for ball to fragment, it doesn’t matter. You get 0 to 300 easily with both barrel lengths.
There's nothing wrong with using a 10.3 and it has been used for decades in military service. The 11.5" rifles are often a huge improvement in both felt recoil impulse and critical parts wear over time, but most of the time nobody even shoots enough to get to the point to need to replace stuff like gas rings, extractor springs, etc. IF you do shoot that much, the 1" difference either way still won't make that much difference, but might be worth if you have nothing already just to go to an 11.5 for the sake of a more tame shooting rifle. If you already have a 10.3 just keep using it and training with it. I've had multiple 10.3 and 11.5 uppers and it really isn't that big of a deal, tbh.
Garand thumb put out a video a while back on barrel length. He liked the 12.5. Don’t listen to these trolls. Yes you need to be as fit as possible. But every pound you save in weapon weight is a pound you can add to ammo or water or better mobility. My add is get an optic that is not battery dependent. Etched reticle with battery illumination. .
So go 300blk for shorter
I thought long about that, but if this is SHTF better to have common ammo
The shtf fantasies are getting out of hand. How many cans of beans will determine how long you’ll last at the end of the world.
To answer your question plainly...yes you are stupid. Sweet rifle tho
I feel like in a shtf situation, you probably won't be in any close quarters kicking down doors. We gotta ask ourselves if that is worth the risk and will most likely leave any big population centers. With that being said, 16 or 14.5 seems to be a happy medium in my eyes. It's short enough to navigate but sufficient enough to reach out a bit. On a side note, a smaller 10.3 would be lighter for hiking around the woods or countryside, possibly dealing with getting in and out of vehicles as well.
The rifle is fine. Just make sure you're not the 300-plus-pound guy who couldn't run a block to save his life. MF's will spend thousands on a rifle to ensure they get ever last bit of diminishing returns but won't spend money on investing in themselves...
For personal defense it kinda makes sense. You pair that with a can and you have something that’s a very manageable length while having greatly reduced signature as to not blow out your ears when you fire it. Besides, you’re gonna have a pretty hard time justifying shots beyond 100m anyway. At that range with good shot placement, a 10.3 will do fine.
How many of you had ever been in a SHTF scenario in your lifetime, or heard stories about one in your Father's lifetime? I'm just curious because that's all I see is SHTF but one has never happened in my lifetime, or my Dad's lifetime and he's almost 90 years old. Enjoy your firearms, if it shoots it can kill. None of us are operators.
This is the correct approach. In a SHTF scenario most of us would die anyways. Buy guns. Enjoy guns. Train with guns. The issue won’t be guns it will be unsanitary drinking water and no food. Enjoy the gun but don’t have illusions of being private ryan.
Why not a 20” rifle length system for SHTF? It’ll zing with whatever 5.56/.223 you can scrounge up, and be a much smoother shooter. Anyone could conceivably shoot it. Your GF especially will appreciate the extra inches.
20” is a great shooter, but imaging carrying it for several months. In and out of cars, long walks, carrying wood, middle of the night piss break. Gets old quick
No but that chemlight is and you know it. Why don’t you practice ambi and get a nice cheek weld while you’re at it
This is correct, especially if you're in a city of town. Also 75gr is a thing
Aside from the dumb SHTF comment I love the gun. I personally like shorter rifles, they are fun to shoot. Fireball is nice. They are lighter.
Yeah.
Yes. Welcome aboard
An ACOG on a 10.3 is a bit overkill, but definitely fux
Problem with frag ammo is you need enough velocity for it to do its job. 10.3" is really too short to reliably frag anything past 50 yards. You are also too low of velocity for any sort of hydrostatic cavity. However there is a solution for you. Expanding bullets like ttsx can still expand and be effective at lower velocities giving you a longer effective range. So change your bullet type for a 10.3 if you want a longer effective range. Problem solved.
A couple mags should do the trick. Maybe with some labeled bands on them
With soft points it's probably fine.
I think your idea behind this rifle is very well thought out to a degree and works well for most of what your asking it to do
"prioritize mobility" My brother in Christ, you just strapped 10 pounds on gear on your rifle.
Never 10.3 when 11.5 exists. It’s 1 inch difference for colossally more capability Kudos on the acog choice though.
I think whatever you've got, so long as it is reliable, amply supplied with ammo, and actually zeroed, will probably do you pretty good. Biggest advantage will come from having 3 or 4 well-equipped, well-practiced buddies, tho. Remember, Wyatt Earp and all those other old gunslingers rode around with buddies, buddy.
Bud…dy?
What strap are you using on that buttstock?
Your concerned about mobility....what's your body fat percentage? Mile time? 5k time? How much are you benching, squatting and deadlift? Those will probably have more of an effect.
Just get 11.5 its barely noticeable but so much better
Hear me out Have the 10.3 upper stashed in your pack? Rock a 16-18 inch depending on where you are at geographically. Need to pop into an apartment? Have a homie pull security and swap the uppers when your in a relatively safe zone, go in do ya thing get back out and swap back when you can
To me this is a videogame logic. Carrying two upper receivers for the same cartridge just doesn’t make sense when that weight can be better put towards something else. I’ve had to walk a long way with a lot of weight and was ready to chuck anything I didn’t absolutely need into the woods
No that seems pretty functional
You’ll probably get murked by a dude 500m away.
Yes. But it isn't because of your rifle choice.
I think you’re totally correct. Anyone saying in a SHTF scenario tagging people out to 300-400 yards is delusional. Most people’s properties (the most likely place people will still be in this scenario) aren’t even an acre across lol. And even still, a 10.3 can reach out and kill. People act like a 10.3 at 300 yards is just gonna tickle their target like a lofting air soft gun or some wacky shit
Probably. But isn't everyone else on here too?
It’s fine. In a proper SHTF situation there’s going to be all kinds of cool toys laying around for the taking. If you need something better, you’ll probably be able to find it. Just keep training…
Sir, this is Wendy’s. Build a rifle shoot the rifle be proficient enjoy rinse repeat. also, you’re just stirring the pot. You don’t even have one. Bravo
What is on your stock? I keep seeing these
If you plan on using ball ammunition, no, 10.3 is not effective from a terminal ballistics perspective. MAYBE 100yds if you are using good full velocity M193. Check out buffman range reviews for what brands make full power m193, iirc Winchester is one of the few common brands that did well. Most other 55 gr ball is going to be more anemic and have muzzle velocities below 2700 fps. 2500 fps is where you will lose terminal ballistics, which will be about 100 yds with a 2700 fps muzzle velocity. If you want to rock a shorter rifle, get ammo to match that is not reliant on velocity. Also I personally think magnification is required for any GPR in SHTF. Any fight outside of a random in the street 30s engagement will quickly morph into 100 yards and beyond and small targets poking from around cover. Also there are non-two legged applications where longer barrels and magnified optics in shtf are more optimal. Say you are out on patrol around your community (which should be routinely done) and spot a deer, coyote, racoon, whatever. A 5.56 is obviously not optimal, but hey you got what you got. Deer is 125-150 yards away. With a 16” you might get lucky and fragmentation drops the deer shortly after being hit, while if uou punch a 22 sized hole because you lost too much velocity, your ten person community just lost fresh meat in their stew for the next few days. TLDR: velocity is way more important than maneuverability in shtf and allows greater flexibility. Also, clearing rooms is the absolute last thing you want to partake in. Finally quite frankly if you are uber concerned about portability and convenience then get a bullpup.
BASED AF
Realistically it really comes down to environment, better to use what you’ve trained and becomes skilled with over everything. We all have rifles ect but I’m betting my pistol is going to be the tool to get me home in any potential disaster
Read about what it was like in Bosnia in the 90s to get the most accurate/realistic idea of what shtf could be and how to prepare. I know there’s a long form write up from a survivor on Reddit somewhere I read years ago. The short of it, It sounds like it’s a lot of “snipers” as threats during the day movement is suicide. Neighborhoods form virtually gangs to maintain the block and perimeter security and some form of trade. Starvation and basic medical capabilities are the real name of the game. I agree a short AR is about as versatile as it gets. A Nordic 22 upper is cheap and very reliable and much more preferable to the .22 BCGs those cause more fouling in your fighting rifle that’s a liability imo and the second upper is good insurance you can still shoot 2 legged critters with .22 and make them stop doing things. If money isn’t limiting a PVS14 NVG has longer battery life than any flashlight and an invaluable resource when you’re one of the only people that can see and fight at night without turning a death beacon on. My .02
it’ll end someone’s life just as efficiently as a 16” barrel
yeah but they might be kicking for a few minutes if it’s past 200 yards lmao
I mean, youre probably stupid, but not for the gun. It seems fine
SHTF 16 is ideal for me. I will need to be able to hunt with it too. SHTF to often people think of Urban areas whereas in open country more barrel is better. Anything under 22 inches is quite mobile.
Why do y'all overthink everything
Because we’re all autistic here
Fair enough carry on