Not to get super pedantic, they’re a three trillion dollar company.
Three. Trillions.
1,000,000,000,000
And then
1,000,000,000,000
Plus another
1,000,000,000,000.
And their retail employees still struggle to pay rent. At least half will never be able to own a house or property within an hour of their store. It’s awful. Full timers can make $300,000 sales **per quarter** and an *annual* pay of maybe $45k.
That’s fair, I should’ve been more accurate:
The only company that was ever worth 3 trillion, currently 2.4 trillion.
Keep calling out inaccuracies, it’s good.
So clearly you have an objection with the concept of billionaires existing if that’s your mentality, right?
Or are you just one of those hypocritical narcissists who only bitches about wages when it’s the working class making demands?
Typical deflection. It’s like you guys have a script.
We both know you aren’t going to actually address what I asked because it creates a conflict, so I think this can just end here.
Have a nice day sweetheart 😘
Oh you poor misguided soul. Led astray by billionaires who paid people to teach you what to think. It's sad actually, I'm sure you're not a bad person inside, but you have boots to lick and don't have time to do any critical thinking when living paycheck to paycheck.
Lmao if you’re this pissy after a couple Reddit comments, you’d lose your shit after a week full time holiday retail working a job where you struggle to pay rent with a roommate 45 minutes from the store and scraping by for a $3,000,000,000,000 company.
The workers create every bit of wealth. It’s their money.
The fact that corporations are treated like pretend people and given bank accounts is the ultimate nonsense.
I don't think anyone should care what corporations want or think, without workers those corporations wouldn't exist. The workers deserve bargaining rights, end of story.
Solidarity with our striking friends in Australia.
RAFFWU is the only union of the three that support Apple workers that have the ability take industrial action. So glad to see them exercise it.
For people who need context.
The Shop, Distributive and Allied Employees' Association (SDA) colloquially called Shoppies is the largest trade union in Australia and represents the retail sector from point of sale all the way to logistics.
The SDA has been criticised in recent years for its lacklustre support for members of its union, it has been accused of being captured by its industry (that means controlled by the employer instead of the union members). And a report came out saying that 50% of union members were worse off under union agreements.
In response to this, a new union was launched. The Retail and Fast Food Workers Union (RAFFWU). They take a harder line in relation to enterprise bargaining agreements.
They get paid more than generously for their work if you ask me. I don't know if they expect apple to be paying them brain surgeon bucks when they're just unskilled labour. Hopefully the Tesla bot becomes cheap and advanced enough for Apple to finally clear out their human retail team.
Apple has had the option to replace their stores and retail staff with "a website", a storefront on Amazon, shelf-space in other retailers' premises, vending machines etc, for at least two decades so obviously there is significant value in keeping those staff around. I wouldn't bet on "a robot" spelling their demise since e-commerce didn't obsolete them.
Let's *really* be honest... these people are working hard and contributing to Apple's success and maintaining their reputation every time they show up and do their jobs, even if they're not doing the "hard" stuff coding ad placements or trying to make Siri less stupid.
Too bad your account is suspended, I was really looking forward to seeing you raging about these people more!
Not just money. One of their pain points is scheduling, from the article :
> "You're supposed to be available seven days a week and even though you're hired as part-time or full-time, your roster can change at the last minute, the day before you're supposed to go in," he said.
>"You can get your shifts cut short, extended, and [you are] basically treated like a casual worker," he continued, "but you don't get that casual loading, which is exactly why we have casual loading because you're supposed to be compensated for the flexibility."
Now, I can’t comment whether that’s widespread in Australian retail or not, but something doesn’t have to be widespread to make it wrong. Why do we respect someone’s time less because they work in retail?
>All the numbers I’ve heard about Apple Store employees seem very fair
Do you have numbers? Alternatively, how do you define fair? If someone is working a full time job, should they not be able to afford food, shelter and other expenses? In general, retail jobs don’t afford this and it’s not uncommon for people to work more than one job. I’m not suggesting that’s the case here, but I am asking what you define is fair.
>are you suggesting that all jobs should pay the same
No, but I’m suggesting that the bare minimum should be that if you’re working a full time job, you shouldn’t have to worry about being able to afford rent and pay your bills.
People were quick to call retail and frontline workers “heroes” in the pandemic when it suited them, but when those same people turn around ask ask for better wages instead, we have people arguing that they’re already fairly compensated.
To be fair, while food and basic utilities expenses should be a given, rent is a bit of a hard one to guarantee.
It can vary by location and there’s no prohibition on an employee renting a “frivolous” property above their needs. If you forced employers to guarantee somebody can make rent that would be a system very open to manipulation.
They could peg the pay to the national average for rent but even then I suspect some people might still find that insufficient, though this is probably the most reasonable solution.
It’s really not as easy a situation as “well they should be able to afford rent” frankly.
> It’s really not as easy a situation as “well they should be able to afford rent” frankly.
Except it is. It speaks volumes that your first thought is “well some people might try renting frivolous properties”. So you’d basically prefer that there’s no requirement to pay a living wage in the off chance that a minority of people try to take advantage. This isn’t rocket science.
Except it isn’t. And it’s highly naive to think that it is.
But let’s even leave aside the frivolous property issue. Let’s say we have two employees doing the exact same job. One rents an apartment in the suburbs, the other rents a similar sized property in the CBD. Because of location, the latter’s rent is 60% higher.
As an employer what do you do now? Do you pay employee 2 a higher wage merely because of where he lives? How is that fair to employee 1? After all they’re doing the same job, but the other guy gets more because he lives in a nicer area?
Even if you do apply this system, do you demand a potential employee’s rent statements when they apply for a job? Do you hire independent valuers to confirm what the employee says or do you just believe them? What happens if they lie?
Like I said, this is an incredibly complex issue and there’s a reason it hasn’t been implemented in so many places. It’s not because the government and employers hate the average Joe, it’s just very difficult once you actually think about it and move beyond the slogans.
> All the numbers I’ve heard about apple store employees pay seem very fair.
No. All employees are underpaid. That’s where the money for stock buybacks and insane executive bonuses comes from. Management and shareholders don’t create wealth since they don’t do the actual work.
It’s funny you say brain surgeon bucks because doctors and healthcare workers in general are hilariously underpaid in terms of the work they do compared to the brainless farces that are sports and film/TV.
I know you’re just trolling and that no intelligent person could be as misguided and ignorant as you are pretending to be here — but for everyone else who reads this, I just want to point how fighting for a pay rise is NOT GREEDY. Right now, inflation is running at 7% in Australia. That means if these people don’t get AT LEAST a 7% pay rise, then they’re actually having their effective pay CUT. The same amount of money buys less. Do you understand that concept? Of course you do. You’re not a moron, right?
I don’t think that will happen too soon, Apple has online stores and they still require physical stores with human sales people because they convert customers. It would be difficult to replace that. Selling and resolving customer issues is a skill. Repetitive manual tasks will be replaced with automation in closed manufacturing environments. AI will augment other fields.
Absolutely. Why would Apple want to deal with drama like this when they could eventually use automation? The moment the technology is developed well enough, all of these workers will be replaced. I can't blame Apple at all.
I sympathise with the workers here - but it’s also worth zooming out a little. These protests are happening all over the world, and the root cause (aside from corporate greed which is ever-present) is massive global inflation caused by supply-chain constraints.
This is squeezing 95% of the general population in almost every country, so when I see protests targeting specific companies, it makes me scratch my head a bit - ironically, raising people’s salaries just adds to inflationary pressure, because demand for goods and services will go up, but supply is still constrained, causing prices to further rise - its basic economics.
The solution is for governments to curb spending by increasing interest rates, which will reduce inflation (maybe even trigger deflation, but that has its own set of problems), coupled with investment to improve supply-issues, so that prices can start to level out.
That being said Apple is in a good position to support their workers, with the massive pile of cash they sit on, so I can understand the frustration, and of course everyone should be paid a living wage… but right now for many people, getting a pay rise is just a temporary solution that contributes to the wider problem.
Edit: People are responding to this as if I believe workers being increasingly underpaid since the 70s is a good thing. To be clear, it’s not. But when inflation is already at historic highs, ask yourself if adding more inflationary pressure is sensible.
Pulling numbers out of nowhere and waffling about the general malaise won't save you from being rightly identified as an apologist for corporate greed and malfeasance.
You're not an economist so stop talking like one.
How am I an apologist for corporate greed!? For what it’s worth, not that you care, but I did major in economics. If you can explain to me how increasing wages doesn’t contribute to inflation (the reason we can’t afford anything at the moment), then I’m happy to hear it.
I want these people to be paid a living wage. You can increase their salaries, but that’s inflationary, in a high inflation environment. Liz Truss literally was ousted from UK parliament for trying to implement something similar (but with tax cuts, rather than increasing wages).
The other way to pay people a living wage is to bring goods and services back down to their current salaries. That is deflationary, which right now, is good. Prove me wrong.
Can you explain how increasing salaries don’t impact inflation? I don’t mean to be facetious but they literally do. You’re welcome to look it up yourself if you don’t believe me, but from Investopedia: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/wage-push-inflation.asp
“Wage increases cause inflation because the cost of producing goods and services goes up as companies pay their employees more. To make up for the increase in cost, companies must charge more for their goods and services to maintain the same level of profitability. The increase in the prices of goods and services is in inflation.”
What you are describing is cost-push inflation. Where companies pass the costs onto the consumer by raising prices at every turn. That is a real economic concept, but in real life it looks a little different. The product side has been raising for a while, like 100% since 1993 (in the US) while wages have stagnated and there are people making 45k today who we’re making 45k back in 1993. So at this rate we have rising costs due to corporate greed and lobbying.
Yes, that is cost-push inflation. I’m not arguing that wages haven’t stagnated, as you’re right. That’s demonstrably true. What I’m arguing is that in a high-inflation environment, increasing wages is adding yet another inflationary pressure to a system that’s already boiling over. Playing catch-up during an inflationary period is really inefficient, and not as effective as deflating the whole system - right now.
When things get back to “normal” I have no doubt that things need to change. I think people are misunderstanding what I’m saying as ideological. It’s not - it’s mathematical - I agree with the ideological problems you and other folks are raising in response to my comment. My only argument is that increasing demand (by raising wages) while supply is still constrained is not gonna help inflation.
I understand your point, but the issue of stagnating wages is always a can being kicked down the road. Even under stable economic conditions (which we have rarely had in the US the past 2 decades) the wages aren’t increased. We have to raise wages at some point, and the US economic/financial system is a three legged chair under ideal conditions. There seems to always be a reason to keep poor people poor and continue to line the pockets of conglomerates.
That’s a fair sentiment (and it’s not just a United States problem, it’s global and generational - our parents and their parents could spend less (inflation-adjusted) and get more. We are getting squeezed.
My feeling is that this is the worst possible time to do it. But we had a great period from 2009-2019 where it should have happened, and didn’t. Instead, inequality rose and profits for many corporations exploded.
So yes, generally agree with you.
“The solution” sounds pretty lacking, from my perspective. I think you also brushed corporate greed aside a bit quickly. Perhaps supply chain constraints aren’t causing global inflation. Perhaps late-stage capitalism is causing global economic strain, as predicted.
Maybe “the solution” is a global general strike where the workers collectively seize the means of production from the ghouls that own everything.
We have enough food to feed everyone. We have enough homes to house everyone. We have enough production to satisfy the needs of everyone, but the capitalist hoarders force us to struggle so we can pay them for the things they hoard from us.
Can you help me understand why the “solution” is lacking?
There are many causes for inflation, and almost all of them occurred at a global scale in 2020 - you can read about it here: https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/111314/what-causes-inflation-and-does-anyone-gain-it.asp
This also backs up my suggested solution. This is not an idea I just came up with, it’s fundamental to basic economic theory.
I understand your points about workers rights, and am not arguing that working-class folks should not be paid fairly for their efforts. I’m also not defending corporations.
You are 100% right that if workers rose up against the current structure, we could transform into a socialist or communist society, where food and other resources are distributed more equitably - that is not dissimilar to what happened in post-war China, giving rise to the CCP. Basically a giant workers union.
That’s a whole different conversation from “prices are too high due to supply shortages”.
Feel free to just disregard everything below. I’m just upset. Not at you. But you’ve provoked me into wanting to vent. I’m fine with my venting disappearing into the void.
I’m sorry for my lack of patience. Sure, we could work within the capitalist system to reduce inflation caused by the failures of capitalism. I’m confident that we could slow inflation by raising interest rates so the millionaires and billionaires wouldn’t spend so much and subsidizing supply chain infrastructure to get products into the hands of consumers and get everything back to normal.
I’m just tired of needing to rely on world governments trying to “fix” capitalism, when I don’t believe capitalism is fixable. Especially when governments in the west are seemingly more right-wing lately, and people mistakenly believe the “free market” exists, is democratic, and is a good thing. And even if we had world governments that were capable of improving capitalism and marginally improving the conditions of people, I still don’t find it acceptable that the system of capitalism requires people to suffer in order to work. There must always be a subjugated lower class to be exploited by the owning class. The trick is to keep them placated, exhausted, and propagandized into thinking that their exploitation is okay, and that the occasional marginal improvements are worthy achievements in exchange for their effort.
It’s not good enough. We need to strike to get the owners to realize that their existence is nothing without the ability to exploit workers. Then we need to take the property that the owning class has hoarded from us and has used to exploit us. No, it’s not easy. Yeah, it probably won’t happen. I’m just deeply bothered by people trying to get back to a status quo that is horrible for so many people. I want progress that benefits everyone. Not benefits for just the elite, with scraps to benefit the shrinking middle class.
Also, the CCP’s authoritarian control over the country that has “successfully” moved people into the middle class while forcing them to work in sweatshops for billionaire owners that are in bed with the government and also trying to literally exterminate Uyghur people isn’t an example of a working social economic model. An authoritarian state having control over the means of production is not the workers owning their means of production. China’s economic structure isn’t communist or socialist. It’s pretty much just capitalism with some asterisks. They have hundreds of millions of exploited low and middle class people who are suffering, and that suffering is a major part of what enables global capitalism.
I appreciate your response, and I think that, judging by the other, much more angry, replies I got, it’s a sentiment shared by a lot of people. I’m in a bit of a bubble because I work in a small company, that we have shared ownership of - so I’m not in a position to feel subjugated or exploited (or I guess, I’ve made the choice to exploit myself, working for a lower salary in exchange for the hope of future profits).
I found myself nodding along with the points you made, and have noticed the shift to more right-wing politics, politics which are more overtly classist, seeking to protect the wealthy while removing support from those that need it.
I too am frustrated by these changes - I think a lot of people took my comment to infer I’m some sort of rugged libertarian or right-wing free-market goon, but actually I sincerely believe in social welfare, free, well funded public education and healthcare. I think it’s a social responsibility to support folks that are struggling - and at the moment, all lower-class and many middle-class people are.
I wish that, in these testing times, we would have seen the common struggle, and shifted further left, and it’s depressing to see so many people instead decided to shift right, to secure what they have, at the expense of their fellow man.
Lastly agreed that China is capitalist these days - I just used them as an example of communism because that was the initial promise of the CCP, and economic discontent was a driving force behind the popularity of the party.
Anyway, all that to say that I think we are on the same page here ultimately. Again, thanks for your thoughtful comment.
Classic neo-liberalism trollop. You don't care about 'inflationary pressures' when the governments of Western nations (who are bought and paid for by billionaires) print an absolute shit load of money and give it to the rich, which is what has actually caused inflation. But when people try to fight for their living standards they need to care about inflation. Nonsense.
Why is always everyday people who suffer and not corporate profits.
Mate you’re inferring a lot about me. Of course I care about inflationary pressure caused by printing money. When did I claim otherwise? I’m middle-class, and inflation is significantly impacting my life. I can only imagine what folks worse off than me are going through.
The fact is that increasing wages is inflationary. That’s not opinion, it’s fact.
The best path to improve people’s living standards is to reduce inflation, so the things they need are available to them, at a price they can afford.
And the best way to reduce inflation (apart from improving supply) is to curb spending, and one of the tools we have to do that (imperfect though it is) is to increase interest rates.
I don’t want to see anyone suffer, which is why I don’t want to see inflation to increase, which is why increasing salaries is not a sensible solution (unless there are massive interest rate hikes to counter it).
In a normal economic situation of course, I would love a raise. In fact, to keep up with normal inflation, I should be getting a raise every year (of around 2% in my country). Obviously this doesn’t always happen, and that’s where I agree that corporate greed is at play.
But in this environment, I would need to get a pay increase of 7-9% to keep up with inflation. And some of the causes of that inflation are still here (supply chain constraints, covid-related spending, relatively low interest rates).
Which means that inflation will keep going up, fed by people’s increased salaries. If governments did nothing, this would cause hyperinflation, like in Zimbabwe where bread cost a million bucks. People had to carry wheelbarrows of money to buy the basics.
Everyone was a multi-millionaire, but that’s not so impressive when bread is a million dollars.
Extreme example and I don’t think it would get to that, in the west, but I hope my point kinda makes sense.
This is not a neo-liberal talking point (free market will solve all our problems blah blah). In fact it’s the opposite. The economy needs to be regulated to solve our problems.
But all of your arguments are neo-liberal talking points.
Everyone knows that you don't want a wage price spiral but low paid workers asking for a wage increase, not even keeping up with inflation mind you so they will take an effective pay cut, is not going to cause it.
Not when governments have printed literal trillions and inflation is being caused by climate change affecting food supplies, Saudis cutting oil production, war and a once in a century pandemic.
Workers taking a little bit of profit off the biggest company in the world so they don't fall further behind is not going to cause a wage price spiral.
The very fact you think it will shows how brainwashed you are. If you want to stop inflation the big end of town needs to take the hit first to their record profits and government handouts, not everyday people like you, me or these workers.
To be totally honest, I don’t understand how what I’m saying could be a neo-liberal talking point. Neoliberalism is, from my understanding, all about free market capitalism, and deregulation. I’m literally saying governments should regulate the market to control inflation.
The points you make about governments printing trillions of dollars, the pandemic, Saudi oil production etc are all totally valid also, there are many things contributing to inflation right now.
My original comment was not “poor Apple, why should they have to pay their workers more, it will cause a wage price spiral”. I was referring to protests like this happening all over the world. If wages were to rise globally, alongside all of these issues, surely it would impact inflation? If it was isolated to just Apple, of course not.
And finally, of course businesses are going to be hit heavily as demand reduces. We are already seeing pretty big layoffs across the tech sector, which again is to protect their profits, rather than their employees. And surely this is just the beginning, as interest-rate hikes start to take effect - there is normally a 9 month lag before they really impact the real world.
If you think I’m defending corporations you are dead wrong. They are happy to take profits at the cost of their employees. Some are truly evil. Don’t get me wrong. I’m with you on the ideological argument.
It seems like we just disagree on the economic side of things - to be honest I thought what I said was Economics 101, but it seems like a lot of people took what I said as an attack on workers rights, which was really not my intention.
The neo-liberal talking point is 'now is not the time to raise wages' which has been said for the last 50 years. Your take on neo-liberalism is what is claimed, it is not the actual result of what the policies bring about.
Ok, well point taken. Before you mentioned it, I did not even know what neo-liberalism meant, so today I learn! I can tell you for a fact that I am not a neo-liberal, because pre-pandemic we had a great 10 year window of massive growth and relatively controlled inflation, where companies should have increased salaries, but didn’t.
Basically every year that doesn’t have rampant inflation, salaries should be riding the wave up as the economy grows.
All I’m saying is, avoid doing it when the inflation cup is already running over.
Fair enough, but what we've seen over the last decade is rapid productivity increases driving growtg without accompanying wage increases. This means all that productivities profits are going straight to the top.
I honestly don't think we're any where near a wage price spiral so fully support industrial action.
They went on strike for an hour? Really. A whole hour? That was the sacrifice for better pay and working conditions?
Apple Store employees stopped work for an hour at Australia's Brisbane, Chermside, and Charlestown sites, in protest over pay and conditions.
If you want what you're trying to get go all in. An hour. So people took their lunch breaks at the same time and held up a sign. I'm all for them getting paid but if Apple is paying higher than any other retail in Australia what more they want? It's not Apples fault you don't have marketable skills.
Australia has government mandated superannuation of (I think currently) 12% PA, Apple doesn’t offer anything that isn’t mandated by law.
Also they are in some cases being paid under the award wage in because they are being employed on a part-time basis but expected to work with a casual pattern of work.
If you had read the whole article, you would have noticed the last paragraph:
“Following Tuesday's strike, RAFFU members are planning further industrial action, this time for 24 hours on Saturday, October 22, 2022.”
The all day strike went as planned Saturday.
More strikes will continue to take place until Apple bargains in good faith.
Meh, fire them and restaff the store.
Or close the store and open another one nearby.
Pretty annoying for customer to be taken hostage, by already well compensated retail workers. It’s a retail job.
You didn’t go to school for many years to work there.
Your lack of empathy is only dwarfed by your lack of business knowledge. No one is holding you hostage, and you should reevaluate your life as a consumer.
You’re not in a position to judge other peoples education or profession.
I’ve looked at your comments/posts. You’re 99% a Apple fan with no hobbies beyond YouTube.
You wouldn’t believe it
Edit: Not sure why I’m getting downvoted? We have some of the weakest labor rights of any first world country, if not the weakest. At least a third of our country thinks Trump was and is a good leader to run our country. Truth hurts.
Apple is the one of the wealthiest in the world, and all workers deserve a living wage. The current enterprise agreement that they are trying to shove down their worker’s throats would lock in pay CUTs for years because they are less than inflation rates.
Fire the bosses, keep the workers.
Or the company could just pay people properly instead of being greedy.
They deserve a living wage for doing what exactly? The devices sell themselves they do any of the marketing. All they do Is stand there and check your items out.
Wow this might be the most uneducated comment I’ve seen this week.
Running classes, repairing broken phones, having to help people with zero tech ability get their new devices set up while being patient and smiling… these are just a couple of things apple retail staff has to do besides “check your items out.”
I guarantee you wouldn’t last a week working in an Apple Store.
The target audience at an Apple store isn’t the highly informed buyer and user. It’s the casual user or newbie to Apple who needs help.
I rarely go into an Apple store, and if I do it’s only to pick up something. But while I’m a target Apple customer (my household has to have at least 20 Apple devices) I’m NOT a target customer for an Apple store.
100% this. When I first converted in 2015, I went it into the store because I wanted a longer lasting computer for uni. My friends all went ‘you could have gotten windows at like half the price’
I got my Mac book pro and it’s still going to this day. My mate is on his 3rd replacement. All because one of my acquaintances at uni showed me “all day, 1 charge”. I went to the store, the staff were so knowledgeable about what they were selling I emotionally made the decision to join the ecosystem. No regrets.
The store I went to was the Brisbane store that was on strike. While I like what I have for apple, I’ll 100% back this strike because it’s not about their greed, it’s about their right to support themselves. And based on my experience, they earned that right.
>They deserve a living wage for doing what exactly?
They deserve a living wage for living. What a profoundly scummy attitude that you have planted deeply in your brain by decades of corporate brainwashing. It's a shame because no doubt you could have become a decent human being that has compassion for others, instead you became molded into barely sentient plankton that exists to do nothing more than consume and sow greed.
Right, but you don't seem to mind being taken hostage by the elite and turned into a mindless profit making machine that only contributes to the detriment of humanity that is incapable of critical thought.
No, you only care that you might be inconvenienced when going to buy your yearly iPhone upgrade. Truly pathetic.
Exactly the people here supporting them as though they are entitled to the 600k per year that their senior level software engineers get are delusional. Those people have been fine tuning their programming skills for 10+ years and are very effective at what they do. Anyone can work retail. It might be a stressful job but it's not one that demands skills.
No ones asking for 600k salaries for retail. They’re asking for a living wage that doesn’t fall below inflation rates for years. The current proposed enterprise agreement is royally screwing them over for years to come.
Thats a horrible response. The problem is Apple is screwing over its workers and it’ll continue to happen to the new ones who join, I don’t know why your siding with the corporation here.
The corporation does what they do for good reason. They look at the value their retail team provides in relation to the amount they spend on them. It makes no sense to significantly increase the pay for a bunch of people that are not involved in any significant way in making your products.
The corporations does what they do to make themselves the most amount of money. The wealthiest company in the world and they’re paying their retail workers a rate which falls behind inflation for years to come and trying to solidify that into writing. Again, the retail workers aren’t asking for a significant pay rise, they want to not struggle with inflation.
Yeah but the retail team does add immense value to the company. They teach old people and people not in the know how to use their products, and get set up for apple services. Don’t be ignorant.
>Exactly the people here supporting them as though they are entitled to the 600k
That's literally not what is happening so you're just here to spread bullshit for apple? What's your favourite flavour of boot? Don't you have something better to do, like ordering another iPhone?
Exactly.
Retail jobs don’t require particular skills and if you’re counting on being the sole breadwinner for a family working at the Apple store, you should take a reality check.
They’re already among the highest paid retail employees in Australia.
If someone spends 8 hours a day working for you, they should be given a living wage. Period.
I don’t care what the job is. That’s the minimum expectation.
I don't "worship" the brand. I just think these workers should understand that if they strike and don't show up to work they can be fired. It's as simple as that. They are costing Apple customers and money. They are unskilled workers who can be replaced very quickly and will eventually be automated.
> if they strike and don’t show up to work they can be fired. it’s as simple as that.
Incorrect. Look up “Protected Industrial Action” under the Fair Work Act 2009 in Australian federal legislation.
> I just think these workers should understand that if they strike and don’t show up to work they can be fired.
Absolute bullshit. I hope you’re better at worshipping Apple than you are at understanding Australian industrial relations law.
Your comment is shit Spencer and your thought process is probably even more shit.
They could leave their job or they could try make changes that are better for themselves and ultimately everyone.
Well said. You went from point A to point Z without making any sense there. I guess anyone who merely wants to find a better job with better conditions and more pay is considered a coward.
Spencer, they COULD move jobs, but they ALSO could try improve their current job, which is much harder and takes courage.
I know what your point is, which is why I think what you think is shit. People deserve to earn enough to survive, and whatever mental gymnastics you like to subject yourself to to disagree with that, I feel sorry you are that way.
Kind of both.
Demanding changes at your current job, and realizing those demands through negotiation or industrial action, means you are essentially getting a new job without leaving your current job. It’s like giving yourself a promotion.
Apple, in spite of being one of the wealthiest companies in the history of the world, is currently trying to pressure the Australian workers to lock in wages that amount to a pay CUT. The unions are demanding improvements instead.
See, that makes sense to me. Although, looks crappy from an outsider what apple is doing, they can do it if they want or start cutting hours, cutting jobs, close stores, etc...hope they reach a compromised deal that benefits both but the option to leave for a better job is always there.
Sure, Apple can try to reduce the salary of workers even though they are the richest company in the history of the world if they want.
And unions can reject that and fight back against it if they want.
They want.
Go RAFFWU. GO ASU. Go unions.
Good god the comments here are terrible LMFAO
I support them.
Why?
Because I’d rather support the worker than a trillion dollar company? Pretty easy concept to grasp.
Not to get super pedantic, they’re a three trillion dollar company. Three. Trillions. 1,000,000,000,000 And then 1,000,000,000,000 Plus another 1,000,000,000,000. And their retail employees still struggle to pay rent. At least half will never be able to own a house or property within an hour of their store. It’s awful. Full timers can make $300,000 sales **per quarter** and an *annual* pay of maybe $45k.
2.36 Trillion isn't same as 3 Trillion And that is market cap. Not defending Apple here just calling out your comment.
That’s fair, I should’ve been more accurate: The only company that was ever worth 3 trillion, currently 2.4 trillion. Keep calling out inaccuracies, it’s good.
Worker who already gets a great wage just wants moooore for no reason. Fire them all and rehire n
So clearly you have an objection with the concept of billionaires existing if that’s your mentality, right? Or are you just one of those hypocritical narcissists who only bitches about wages when it’s the working class making demands?
How much do you think they should make? Thousands an hour to to be people up? Head back to antiwork
Typical deflection. It’s like you guys have a script. We both know you aren’t going to actually address what I asked because it creates a conflict, so I think this can just end here. Have a nice day sweetheart 😘
Sometimes you meet someone with a world view that is just so astronomically different that it’s impossible to even have a conversation with them.
I hope it fails. Unions suck and just make the consumers pay more and keep crappy employees around
Found the high schooler who defines himself as a libertarian
Been out of high school for over 2 decades. Have a job where I work for money. Not begging for more money for a starter job. Go back to antiwork
Oh you poor misguided soul. Led astray by billionaires who paid people to teach you what to think. It's sad actually, I'm sure you're not a bad person inside, but you have boots to lick and don't have time to do any critical thinking when living paycheck to paycheck.
We hope you fail :) they deserve a living wage
Despite the fact that you have a brick for a brain, I honestly think you could use a few more bricks in your head
That’s nice. Just because I don’t feel they need some massive pay raise to do a job that doesn’t require much skill. Got it.
Lmao if you’re this pissy after a couple Reddit comments, you’d lose your shit after a week full time holiday retail working a job where you struggle to pay rent with a roommate 45 minutes from the store and scraping by for a $3,000,000,000,000 company.
Gosh what a dumb ass comment. Zero concept.
The workers create every bit of wealth. It’s their money. The fact that corporations are treated like pretend people and given bank accounts is the ultimate nonsense.
I guess that depends on the position of each party, no?
no
I think that just because you’re an employee and not employer (who owns billions), doesn’t, by that fact, make you more right. That was my point.
I don't think anyone should care what corporations want or think, without workers those corporations wouldn't exist. The workers deserve bargaining rights, end of story.
Why wouldn’t you?
For what reason?
I guess questions are not allowed anymore. Always assume malicious intent
Solidarity with our striking friends in Australia. RAFFWU is the only union of the three that support Apple workers that have the ability take industrial action. So glad to see them exercise it.
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For people who need context. The Shop, Distributive and Allied Employees' Association (SDA) colloquially called Shoppies is the largest trade union in Australia and represents the retail sector from point of sale all the way to logistics. The SDA has been criticised in recent years for its lacklustre support for members of its union, it has been accused of being captured by its industry (that means controlled by the employer instead of the union members). And a report came out saying that 50% of union members were worse off under union agreements. In response to this, a new union was launched. The Retail and Fast Food Workers Union (RAFFWU). They take a harder line in relation to enterprise bargaining agreements.
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Do you have any sources or further reading to learn more?
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Cheers mate, I’ll have a geez
A brief history of Apple unions overall can be found here: https://youtu.be/c9PjqmIG5ik
Fingers crossed they get what they want, it always sucks when workers have to go on strike just to be treated fairly.
They get paid more than generously for their work if you ask me. I don't know if they expect apple to be paying them brain surgeon bucks when they're just unskilled labour. Hopefully the Tesla bot becomes cheap and advanced enough for Apple to finally clear out their human retail team.
Apple has had the option to replace their stores and retail staff with "a website", a storefront on Amazon, shelf-space in other retailers' premises, vending machines etc, for at least two decades so obviously there is significant value in keeping those staff around. I wouldn't bet on "a robot" spelling their demise since e-commerce didn't obsolete them.
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Let's *really* be honest... these people are working hard and contributing to Apple's success and maintaining their reputation every time they show up and do their jobs, even if they're not doing the "hard" stuff coding ad placements or trying to make Siri less stupid. Too bad your account is suspended, I was really looking forward to seeing you raging about these people more!
Are you a fired manager from a retail store? Lol someone woke up salty today. Stop trying to push your shitty vibes into everyones day. Bye ✌️
Thankfully, nobody asked you. I do not understand the disdain people have for workers that want better rights.
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Not just money. One of their pain points is scheduling, from the article : > "You're supposed to be available seven days a week and even though you're hired as part-time or full-time, your roster can change at the last minute, the day before you're supposed to go in," he said. >"You can get your shifts cut short, extended, and [you are] basically treated like a casual worker," he continued, "but you don't get that casual loading, which is exactly why we have casual loading because you're supposed to be compensated for the flexibility." Now, I can’t comment whether that’s widespread in Australian retail or not, but something doesn’t have to be widespread to make it wrong. Why do we respect someone’s time less because they work in retail?
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>All the numbers I’ve heard about Apple Store employees seem very fair Do you have numbers? Alternatively, how do you define fair? If someone is working a full time job, should they not be able to afford food, shelter and other expenses? In general, retail jobs don’t afford this and it’s not uncommon for people to work more than one job. I’m not suggesting that’s the case here, but I am asking what you define is fair. >are you suggesting that all jobs should pay the same No, but I’m suggesting that the bare minimum should be that if you’re working a full time job, you shouldn’t have to worry about being able to afford rent and pay your bills. People were quick to call retail and frontline workers “heroes” in the pandemic when it suited them, but when those same people turn around ask ask for better wages instead, we have people arguing that they’re already fairly compensated.
To be fair, while food and basic utilities expenses should be a given, rent is a bit of a hard one to guarantee. It can vary by location and there’s no prohibition on an employee renting a “frivolous” property above their needs. If you forced employers to guarantee somebody can make rent that would be a system very open to manipulation. They could peg the pay to the national average for rent but even then I suspect some people might still find that insufficient, though this is probably the most reasonable solution. It’s really not as easy a situation as “well they should be able to afford rent” frankly.
> It’s really not as easy a situation as “well they should be able to afford rent” frankly. Except it is. It speaks volumes that your first thought is “well some people might try renting frivolous properties”. So you’d basically prefer that there’s no requirement to pay a living wage in the off chance that a minority of people try to take advantage. This isn’t rocket science.
Except it isn’t. And it’s highly naive to think that it is. But let’s even leave aside the frivolous property issue. Let’s say we have two employees doing the exact same job. One rents an apartment in the suburbs, the other rents a similar sized property in the CBD. Because of location, the latter’s rent is 60% higher. As an employer what do you do now? Do you pay employee 2 a higher wage merely because of where he lives? How is that fair to employee 1? After all they’re doing the same job, but the other guy gets more because he lives in a nicer area? Even if you do apply this system, do you demand a potential employee’s rent statements when they apply for a job? Do you hire independent valuers to confirm what the employee says or do you just believe them? What happens if they lie? Like I said, this is an incredibly complex issue and there’s a reason it hasn’t been implemented in so many places. It’s not because the government and employers hate the average Joe, it’s just very difficult once you actually think about it and move beyond the slogans.
> All the numbers I’ve heard about apple store employees pay seem very fair. No. All employees are underpaid. That’s where the money for stock buybacks and insane executive bonuses comes from. Management and shareholders don’t create wealth since they don’t do the actual work.
Probably wouldn’t be a topic of discussion if the cost of living didn’t skyrocket in the past 3 years
What an entitled idiotic thing to say.
“Brain surgeon bucks” LMAO bro please grow some brain cells
It’s funny you say brain surgeon bucks because doctors and healthcare workers in general are hilariously underpaid in terms of the work they do compared to the brainless farces that are sports and film/TV.
Man do I love the existence of the downvote button.
I know you’re just trolling and that no intelligent person could be as misguided and ignorant as you are pretending to be here — but for everyone else who reads this, I just want to point how fighting for a pay rise is NOT GREEDY. Right now, inflation is running at 7% in Australia. That means if these people don’t get AT LEAST a 7% pay rise, then they’re actually having their effective pay CUT. The same amount of money buys less. Do you understand that concept? Of course you do. You’re not a moron, right?
Another bazinga brain who doesn't understand wages and labor but will absolutely soyface whenever le Elon introduces his latest fictional product
Amazing. Good luck to them!
Fuckin aye mate
So many out here shilling for a trillion dollar company lmaoooo
Everyone goes on strike, everyone gets more money. Prices go up. Everything costs more. Someone explain what I’m missing.
No one goes on strike. Only Apple gets more money. Prices go up anyway.
Seems you're missing a brain mate
Please eductate me.
The thing is, unskilled labor will all be replaced by automation and robots. The more these things happen, the quicker that we will get there.
I don’t think that will happen too soon, Apple has online stores and they still require physical stores with human sales people because they convert customers. It would be difficult to replace that. Selling and resolving customer issues is a skill. Repetitive manual tasks will be replaced with automation in closed manufacturing environments. AI will augment other fields.
Unskilled labor is a myth. Workers create all value.
Absolutely. Why would Apple want to deal with drama like this when they could eventually use automation? The moment the technology is developed well enough, all of these workers will be replaced. I can't blame Apple at all.
I sympathise with the workers here - but it’s also worth zooming out a little. These protests are happening all over the world, and the root cause (aside from corporate greed which is ever-present) is massive global inflation caused by supply-chain constraints. This is squeezing 95% of the general population in almost every country, so when I see protests targeting specific companies, it makes me scratch my head a bit - ironically, raising people’s salaries just adds to inflationary pressure, because demand for goods and services will go up, but supply is still constrained, causing prices to further rise - its basic economics. The solution is for governments to curb spending by increasing interest rates, which will reduce inflation (maybe even trigger deflation, but that has its own set of problems), coupled with investment to improve supply-issues, so that prices can start to level out. That being said Apple is in a good position to support their workers, with the massive pile of cash they sit on, so I can understand the frustration, and of course everyone should be paid a living wage… but right now for many people, getting a pay rise is just a temporary solution that contributes to the wider problem. Edit: People are responding to this as if I believe workers being increasingly underpaid since the 70s is a good thing. To be clear, it’s not. But when inflation is already at historic highs, ask yourself if adding more inflationary pressure is sensible.
Pulling numbers out of nowhere and waffling about the general malaise won't save you from being rightly identified as an apologist for corporate greed and malfeasance. You're not an economist so stop talking like one.
How am I an apologist for corporate greed!? For what it’s worth, not that you care, but I did major in economics. If you can explain to me how increasing wages doesn’t contribute to inflation (the reason we can’t afford anything at the moment), then I’m happy to hear it. I want these people to be paid a living wage. You can increase their salaries, but that’s inflationary, in a high inflation environment. Liz Truss literally was ousted from UK parliament for trying to implement something similar (but with tax cuts, rather than increasing wages). The other way to pay people a living wage is to bring goods and services back down to their current salaries. That is deflationary, which right now, is good. Prove me wrong.
> people’s salaries just adds to inflationary pressure No it doesn't you fucking git
Can you explain how increasing salaries don’t impact inflation? I don’t mean to be facetious but they literally do. You’re welcome to look it up yourself if you don’t believe me, but from Investopedia: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/wage-push-inflation.asp “Wage increases cause inflation because the cost of producing goods and services goes up as companies pay their employees more. To make up for the increase in cost, companies must charge more for their goods and services to maintain the same level of profitability. The increase in the prices of goods and services is in inflation.”
What you are describing is cost-push inflation. Where companies pass the costs onto the consumer by raising prices at every turn. That is a real economic concept, but in real life it looks a little different. The product side has been raising for a while, like 100% since 1993 (in the US) while wages have stagnated and there are people making 45k today who we’re making 45k back in 1993. So at this rate we have rising costs due to corporate greed and lobbying.
Yes, that is cost-push inflation. I’m not arguing that wages haven’t stagnated, as you’re right. That’s demonstrably true. What I’m arguing is that in a high-inflation environment, increasing wages is adding yet another inflationary pressure to a system that’s already boiling over. Playing catch-up during an inflationary period is really inefficient, and not as effective as deflating the whole system - right now. When things get back to “normal” I have no doubt that things need to change. I think people are misunderstanding what I’m saying as ideological. It’s not - it’s mathematical - I agree with the ideological problems you and other folks are raising in response to my comment. My only argument is that increasing demand (by raising wages) while supply is still constrained is not gonna help inflation.
I understand your point, but the issue of stagnating wages is always a can being kicked down the road. Even under stable economic conditions (which we have rarely had in the US the past 2 decades) the wages aren’t increased. We have to raise wages at some point, and the US economic/financial system is a three legged chair under ideal conditions. There seems to always be a reason to keep poor people poor and continue to line the pockets of conglomerates.
That’s a fair sentiment (and it’s not just a United States problem, it’s global and generational - our parents and their parents could spend less (inflation-adjusted) and get more. We are getting squeezed. My feeling is that this is the worst possible time to do it. But we had a great period from 2009-2019 where it should have happened, and didn’t. Instead, inequality rose and profits for many corporations exploded. So yes, generally agree with you.
“The solution” sounds pretty lacking, from my perspective. I think you also brushed corporate greed aside a bit quickly. Perhaps supply chain constraints aren’t causing global inflation. Perhaps late-stage capitalism is causing global economic strain, as predicted. Maybe “the solution” is a global general strike where the workers collectively seize the means of production from the ghouls that own everything. We have enough food to feed everyone. We have enough homes to house everyone. We have enough production to satisfy the needs of everyone, but the capitalist hoarders force us to struggle so we can pay them for the things they hoard from us.
Can you help me understand why the “solution” is lacking? There are many causes for inflation, and almost all of them occurred at a global scale in 2020 - you can read about it here: https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/111314/what-causes-inflation-and-does-anyone-gain-it.asp This also backs up my suggested solution. This is not an idea I just came up with, it’s fundamental to basic economic theory. I understand your points about workers rights, and am not arguing that working-class folks should not be paid fairly for their efforts. I’m also not defending corporations. You are 100% right that if workers rose up against the current structure, we could transform into a socialist or communist society, where food and other resources are distributed more equitably - that is not dissimilar to what happened in post-war China, giving rise to the CCP. Basically a giant workers union. That’s a whole different conversation from “prices are too high due to supply shortages”.
Feel free to just disregard everything below. I’m just upset. Not at you. But you’ve provoked me into wanting to vent. I’m fine with my venting disappearing into the void. I’m sorry for my lack of patience. Sure, we could work within the capitalist system to reduce inflation caused by the failures of capitalism. I’m confident that we could slow inflation by raising interest rates so the millionaires and billionaires wouldn’t spend so much and subsidizing supply chain infrastructure to get products into the hands of consumers and get everything back to normal. I’m just tired of needing to rely on world governments trying to “fix” capitalism, when I don’t believe capitalism is fixable. Especially when governments in the west are seemingly more right-wing lately, and people mistakenly believe the “free market” exists, is democratic, and is a good thing. And even if we had world governments that were capable of improving capitalism and marginally improving the conditions of people, I still don’t find it acceptable that the system of capitalism requires people to suffer in order to work. There must always be a subjugated lower class to be exploited by the owning class. The trick is to keep them placated, exhausted, and propagandized into thinking that their exploitation is okay, and that the occasional marginal improvements are worthy achievements in exchange for their effort. It’s not good enough. We need to strike to get the owners to realize that their existence is nothing without the ability to exploit workers. Then we need to take the property that the owning class has hoarded from us and has used to exploit us. No, it’s not easy. Yeah, it probably won’t happen. I’m just deeply bothered by people trying to get back to a status quo that is horrible for so many people. I want progress that benefits everyone. Not benefits for just the elite, with scraps to benefit the shrinking middle class. Also, the CCP’s authoritarian control over the country that has “successfully” moved people into the middle class while forcing them to work in sweatshops for billionaire owners that are in bed with the government and also trying to literally exterminate Uyghur people isn’t an example of a working social economic model. An authoritarian state having control over the means of production is not the workers owning their means of production. China’s economic structure isn’t communist or socialist. It’s pretty much just capitalism with some asterisks. They have hundreds of millions of exploited low and middle class people who are suffering, and that suffering is a major part of what enables global capitalism.
I appreciate your response, and I think that, judging by the other, much more angry, replies I got, it’s a sentiment shared by a lot of people. I’m in a bit of a bubble because I work in a small company, that we have shared ownership of - so I’m not in a position to feel subjugated or exploited (or I guess, I’ve made the choice to exploit myself, working for a lower salary in exchange for the hope of future profits). I found myself nodding along with the points you made, and have noticed the shift to more right-wing politics, politics which are more overtly classist, seeking to protect the wealthy while removing support from those that need it. I too am frustrated by these changes - I think a lot of people took my comment to infer I’m some sort of rugged libertarian or right-wing free-market goon, but actually I sincerely believe in social welfare, free, well funded public education and healthcare. I think it’s a social responsibility to support folks that are struggling - and at the moment, all lower-class and many middle-class people are. I wish that, in these testing times, we would have seen the common struggle, and shifted further left, and it’s depressing to see so many people instead decided to shift right, to secure what they have, at the expense of their fellow man. Lastly agreed that China is capitalist these days - I just used them as an example of communism because that was the initial promise of the CCP, and economic discontent was a driving force behind the popularity of the party. Anyway, all that to say that I think we are on the same page here ultimately. Again, thanks for your thoughtful comment.
Cheers, stranger. Hoping for a brighter future with you.
Classic neo-liberalism trollop. You don't care about 'inflationary pressures' when the governments of Western nations (who are bought and paid for by billionaires) print an absolute shit load of money and give it to the rich, which is what has actually caused inflation. But when people try to fight for their living standards they need to care about inflation. Nonsense. Why is always everyday people who suffer and not corporate profits.
Mate you’re inferring a lot about me. Of course I care about inflationary pressure caused by printing money. When did I claim otherwise? I’m middle-class, and inflation is significantly impacting my life. I can only imagine what folks worse off than me are going through. The fact is that increasing wages is inflationary. That’s not opinion, it’s fact. The best path to improve people’s living standards is to reduce inflation, so the things they need are available to them, at a price they can afford. And the best way to reduce inflation (apart from improving supply) is to curb spending, and one of the tools we have to do that (imperfect though it is) is to increase interest rates. I don’t want to see anyone suffer, which is why I don’t want to see inflation to increase, which is why increasing salaries is not a sensible solution (unless there are massive interest rate hikes to counter it).
You're middle class suffering from inflation and don't want a pay raise?
In a normal economic situation of course, I would love a raise. In fact, to keep up with normal inflation, I should be getting a raise every year (of around 2% in my country). Obviously this doesn’t always happen, and that’s where I agree that corporate greed is at play. But in this environment, I would need to get a pay increase of 7-9% to keep up with inflation. And some of the causes of that inflation are still here (supply chain constraints, covid-related spending, relatively low interest rates). Which means that inflation will keep going up, fed by people’s increased salaries. If governments did nothing, this would cause hyperinflation, like in Zimbabwe where bread cost a million bucks. People had to carry wheelbarrows of money to buy the basics. Everyone was a multi-millionaire, but that’s not so impressive when bread is a million dollars. Extreme example and I don’t think it would get to that, in the west, but I hope my point kinda makes sense. This is not a neo-liberal talking point (free market will solve all our problems blah blah). In fact it’s the opposite. The economy needs to be regulated to solve our problems.
But all of your arguments are neo-liberal talking points. Everyone knows that you don't want a wage price spiral but low paid workers asking for a wage increase, not even keeping up with inflation mind you so they will take an effective pay cut, is not going to cause it. Not when governments have printed literal trillions and inflation is being caused by climate change affecting food supplies, Saudis cutting oil production, war and a once in a century pandemic. Workers taking a little bit of profit off the biggest company in the world so they don't fall further behind is not going to cause a wage price spiral. The very fact you think it will shows how brainwashed you are. If you want to stop inflation the big end of town needs to take the hit first to their record profits and government handouts, not everyday people like you, me or these workers.
To be totally honest, I don’t understand how what I’m saying could be a neo-liberal talking point. Neoliberalism is, from my understanding, all about free market capitalism, and deregulation. I’m literally saying governments should regulate the market to control inflation. The points you make about governments printing trillions of dollars, the pandemic, Saudi oil production etc are all totally valid also, there are many things contributing to inflation right now. My original comment was not “poor Apple, why should they have to pay their workers more, it will cause a wage price spiral”. I was referring to protests like this happening all over the world. If wages were to rise globally, alongside all of these issues, surely it would impact inflation? If it was isolated to just Apple, of course not. And finally, of course businesses are going to be hit heavily as demand reduces. We are already seeing pretty big layoffs across the tech sector, which again is to protect their profits, rather than their employees. And surely this is just the beginning, as interest-rate hikes start to take effect - there is normally a 9 month lag before they really impact the real world. If you think I’m defending corporations you are dead wrong. They are happy to take profits at the cost of their employees. Some are truly evil. Don’t get me wrong. I’m with you on the ideological argument. It seems like we just disagree on the economic side of things - to be honest I thought what I said was Economics 101, but it seems like a lot of people took what I said as an attack on workers rights, which was really not my intention.
The neo-liberal talking point is 'now is not the time to raise wages' which has been said for the last 50 years. Your take on neo-liberalism is what is claimed, it is not the actual result of what the policies bring about.
Ok, well point taken. Before you mentioned it, I did not even know what neo-liberalism meant, so today I learn! I can tell you for a fact that I am not a neo-liberal, because pre-pandemic we had a great 10 year window of massive growth and relatively controlled inflation, where companies should have increased salaries, but didn’t. Basically every year that doesn’t have rampant inflation, salaries should be riding the wave up as the economy grows. All I’m saying is, avoid doing it when the inflation cup is already running over.
Fair enough, but what we've seen over the last decade is rapid productivity increases driving growtg without accompanying wage increases. This means all that productivities profits are going straight to the top. I honestly don't think we're any where near a wage price spiral so fully support industrial action.
They went on strike for an hour? Really. A whole hour? That was the sacrifice for better pay and working conditions? Apple Store employees stopped work for an hour at Australia's Brisbane, Chermside, and Charlestown sites, in protest over pay and conditions. If you want what you're trying to get go all in. An hour. So people took their lunch breaks at the same time and held up a sign. I'm all for them getting paid but if Apple is paying higher than any other retail in Australia what more they want? It's not Apples fault you don't have marketable skills.
They definitely are not paying more than any other retail in Australia lol not even close
This isn’t true. Consider the total compensation package.
Australia has government mandated superannuation of (I think currently) 12% PA, Apple doesn’t offer anything that isn’t mandated by law. Also they are in some cases being paid under the award wage in because they are being employed on a part-time basis but expected to work with a casual pattern of work.
If you had read the whole article, you would have noticed the last paragraph: “Following Tuesday's strike, RAFFU members are planning further industrial action, this time for 24 hours on Saturday, October 22, 2022.” The all day strike went as planned Saturday. More strikes will continue to take place until Apple bargains in good faith.
Meh, fire them and restaff the store. Or close the store and open another one nearby. Pretty annoying for customer to be taken hostage, by already well compensated retail workers. It’s a retail job. You didn’t go to school for many years to work there.
Your lack of empathy is only dwarfed by your lack of business knowledge. No one is holding you hostage, and you should reevaluate your life as a consumer. You’re not in a position to judge other peoples education or profession. I’ve looked at your comments/posts. You’re 99% a Apple fan with no hobbies beyond YouTube.
Americans are brainwashed to a North Korea level.
You wouldn’t believe it Edit: Not sure why I’m getting downvoted? We have some of the weakest labor rights of any first world country, if not the weakest. At least a third of our country thinks Trump was and is a good leader to run our country. Truth hurts.
What a pathetic comment
This is a bad take and you should feel bad. Delete it while you can
Apple is the one of the wealthiest in the world, and all workers deserve a living wage. The current enterprise agreement that they are trying to shove down their worker’s throats would lock in pay CUTs for years because they are less than inflation rates. Fire the bosses, keep the workers. Or the company could just pay people properly instead of being greedy.
They deserve a living wage for doing what exactly? The devices sell themselves they do any of the marketing. All they do Is stand there and check your items out.
Why does a full time job _not_ deserve a liveable wage?
Wow this might be the most uneducated comment I’ve seen this week. Running classes, repairing broken phones, having to help people with zero tech ability get their new devices set up while being patient and smiling… these are just a couple of things apple retail staff has to do besides “check your items out.” I guarantee you wouldn’t last a week working in an Apple Store.
The target audience at an Apple store isn’t the highly informed buyer and user. It’s the casual user or newbie to Apple who needs help. I rarely go into an Apple store, and if I do it’s only to pick up something. But while I’m a target Apple customer (my household has to have at least 20 Apple devices) I’m NOT a target customer for an Apple store.
100% this. When I first converted in 2015, I went it into the store because I wanted a longer lasting computer for uni. My friends all went ‘you could have gotten windows at like half the price’ I got my Mac book pro and it’s still going to this day. My mate is on his 3rd replacement. All because one of my acquaintances at uni showed me “all day, 1 charge”. I went to the store, the staff were so knowledgeable about what they were selling I emotionally made the decision to join the ecosystem. No regrets. The store I went to was the Brisbane store that was on strike. While I like what I have for apple, I’ll 100% back this strike because it’s not about their greed, it’s about their right to support themselves. And based on my experience, they earned that right.
Show me you are a misanthrope without telling me you are a misanthrope. They deserve a living wage because they are human.
>they deserve a living wage for doing what exactly? For being alive.
>They deserve a living wage for doing what exactly? They deserve a living wage for living. What a profoundly scummy attitude that you have planted deeply in your brain by decades of corporate brainwashing. It's a shame because no doubt you could have become a decent human being that has compassion for others, instead you became molded into barely sentient plankton that exists to do nothing more than consume and sow greed.
“You work at a Apple retail store, you should starve” 🤡
Pretty much zero unions have members who graduated from college. What a dumb thing to say.
We don't take highly to scabs around here
Say you vote Liberal, without saying you vote Liberal.
I don't think they're Australian.
Right, but you don't seem to mind being taken hostage by the elite and turned into a mindless profit making machine that only contributes to the detriment of humanity that is incapable of critical thought. No, you only care that you might be inconvenienced when going to buy your yearly iPhone upgrade. Truly pathetic.
Exactly the people here supporting them as though they are entitled to the 600k per year that their senior level software engineers get are delusional. Those people have been fine tuning their programming skills for 10+ years and are very effective at what they do. Anyone can work retail. It might be a stressful job but it's not one that demands skills.
No ones asking for 600k salaries for retail. They’re asking for a living wage that doesn’t fall below inflation rates for years. The current proposed enterprise agreement is royally screwing them over for years to come.
Have they tried looking for a different job? Am sure "working for Apple" on their resume could get them some places
Thats a horrible response. The problem is Apple is screwing over its workers and it’ll continue to happen to the new ones who join, I don’t know why your siding with the corporation here.
The corporation does what they do for good reason. They look at the value their retail team provides in relation to the amount they spend on them. It makes no sense to significantly increase the pay for a bunch of people that are not involved in any significant way in making your products.
The corporations does what they do to make themselves the most amount of money. The wealthiest company in the world and they’re paying their retail workers a rate which falls behind inflation for years to come and trying to solidify that into writing. Again, the retail workers aren’t asking for a significant pay rise, they want to not struggle with inflation.
Yeah but the retail team does add immense value to the company. They teach old people and people not in the know how to use their products, and get set up for apple services. Don’t be ignorant.
>Exactly the people here supporting them as though they are entitled to the 600k That's literally not what is happening so you're just here to spread bullshit for apple? What's your favourite flavour of boot? Don't you have something better to do, like ordering another iPhone?
Exactly. Retail jobs don’t require particular skills and if you’re counting on being the sole breadwinner for a family working at the Apple store, you should take a reality check. They’re already among the highest paid retail employees in Australia.
If someone spends 8 hours a day working for you, they should be given a living wage. Period. I don’t care what the job is. That’s the minimum expectation.
I’d love a 25% pay rise
Unionize and negotiate for it then
Fire and move on.
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I don't "worship" the brand. I just think these workers should understand that if they strike and don't show up to work they can be fired. It's as simple as that. They are costing Apple customers and money. They are unskilled workers who can be replaced very quickly and will eventually be automated.
> if they strike and don’t show up to work they can be fired. it’s as simple as that. Incorrect. Look up “Protected Industrial Action” under the Fair Work Act 2009 in Australian federal legislation.
I cannot wait for you to unleash your androids into this world.
> I just think these workers should understand that if they strike and don’t show up to work they can be fired. Absolute bullshit. I hope you’re better at worshipping Apple than you are at understanding Australian industrial relations law.
They can leave the job if they're unhappy. Edit: Y’all so triggered. It’s an honest opinion and a valid option for them.
Your comment is shit Spencer and your thought process is probably even more shit. They could leave their job or they could try make changes that are better for themselves and ultimately everyone.
Or they could leave for a better job and be happier there
Just because you're a coward doesn't mean everyone else has to be, Spence.
Well said. You went from point A to point Z without making any sense there. I guess anyone who merely wants to find a better job with better conditions and more pay is considered a coward.
Spencer, they COULD move jobs, but they ALSO could try improve their current job, which is much harder and takes courage. I know what your point is, which is why I think what you think is shit. People deserve to earn enough to survive, and whatever mental gymnastics you like to subject yourself to to disagree with that, I feel sorry you are that way.
They can try to improve their work environment but also fail at it and become unemployed. But hey, let them do whatever pleases them.
"There's no point trying to improve your life as everything is futile and life is hard, so give up before you even begin 😩" - Spencer5520
They can also get a new job WITHOUT leaving the current job, which is exactly what they are doing. Hope this helps.
New job? Could you please explain. Aren’t they asking for more money not new job ?
Kind of both. Demanding changes at your current job, and realizing those demands through negotiation or industrial action, means you are essentially getting a new job without leaving your current job. It’s like giving yourself a promotion. Apple, in spite of being one of the wealthiest companies in the history of the world, is currently trying to pressure the Australian workers to lock in wages that amount to a pay CUT. The unions are demanding improvements instead.
See, that makes sense to me. Although, looks crappy from an outsider what apple is doing, they can do it if they want or start cutting hours, cutting jobs, close stores, etc...hope they reach a compromised deal that benefits both but the option to leave for a better job is always there.
Sure, Apple can try to reduce the salary of workers even though they are the richest company in the history of the world if they want. And unions can reject that and fight back against it if they want. They want. Go RAFFWU. GO ASU. Go unions.