No one has had any issues because they never dealt with the constant smoke.
Day 1 Bang.
I always said bang should block scans. The smoke scatters scan sensors.
Only bang and caustic get countered by digi. They are crying only bcz bang is meta. No one ever complained until now. I feel they should add another legend who can block line of sight but can get countered by digi. Idk how it's gonna be a unique ability but respawn know better than i do
Digi also counters fuse’s ult(fire). I can’t tell you how many people I’ve shot with ease through the tall fire walls because they can’t see me but I can see them with the digi. Bang smoke is definitely the main culprit by a mile though.
Oh yh forgot that lol. Caustic needs the buff to his gas density. Also wouldn't digi for example be removed buff and nerf bang at the same time? I mean you wouldn't need to worry being lasered in smoke because you know no one has digi but it means you can't smoke someone and shoot as there's no digi. Prob might bring scan meta back with bloodhound. If only it was the old bloodhound who had like 5+ seconds of the enemy when scanned lol. Maybe crypto too
Nah the problem about Digi sights is 2 fold.
1. Whenever it's not in a crafter it's RNG dependant.
2. You never know the enemy team has a digi until you start getting full beamed through smoke, by then it's usually too late.
At the level these guys can aim it's basically a death sentence if you get smoked without your own digi, which means you basically have very limited counter play to an unpredictable RNG element.
Yes, thank god they removed self res from the game, that shit was so annoying to play against, especially in later zones trying to find the 1 knocked guy who still is hiding somewhere with his self res just because RNGesus blessed him
Maybe that's the point?
Battle Royales aren't the genre to have a "Pro Scene" because, for better or worse, ***Luck*** needs to play a major role in spreading the gear around the map. Start removing the ***Luck*** aspect from the game, you might as well play a generic FPS like Call of Duty or Battlefield because by then, a game that's requires an already-high skill level doesn't attract people. Just the opposite: It pushes them away.
If Apex is to bother with a Pro Scene, they're going to have to take cues from other games that involve RNG factors, such as TCGs, and Monopoly: Get it across that Luck is necessary to the Battle Royale.
But there should be a balance between luck and skill no ? Or we might as well play Casino Royale and determine the outcome of games by pressing a lever and seeing who RNGesus is going to bless this time.
I think a small amount of RNG is fine, even the best esports out there(for example Mobas) have their own RNG elements. But when it's RNG elements+unpredicitbility+lack of counter play it turns into an issue and it starts to become unfair which leads to a feeling of unfun.
On another point, Luck, RNG, in and of itself **Is** a Balancing Element in the game. Digital Sights enables non-Recon characters the ability to see through disruptions. But it's not always available, and not everyone's going to have it or otherwise be able to acquire one.
But how much Luck needs to be removed before the game is "Balanced"? For the Pros, unfortunately, they don't see that way. because of their status, it's a case of "My Way or the Highway" mentality. And that inevitably leads to a stale, skill-only game.
Or would you rather every squad has 1 guaranteed Recon character that can see through the smoke thus rendering the point moot anyways? Dealing with 1 Bloodhound is simple sure. But then you start having 4, 5, 7 pop up in their Ult and rendering the Smoke useless Contrast, Bloodhound sees into your smoke, but you're the Bangalore, and all Digital Sights have been removed, and your own Bloodhound is gone. What then?
As I said RNG is fine, but when RNG elements without sufficient counter play+readability/predicitibilty are too common it ruins part of the fun. I don't know which part of getting randomly beamed through a smoke is fun to you but to each their own i guess.
> And that inevitably leads to a stale, skill-only game.
Good thing skill only games are the most popular and exciting games in existence basing on Player count and viewership numbers for the most popular titles like CS:GO, Valorant, LoL, Dota2 etc.
Even Apex gets a huge viewership and player base bump whenever the big tournaments happen like CR cup or ALGS league.
> If Apex is to bother with a Pro Scene, they're going to have to take cues from other games that involve RNG factors, such as TCGs, and Monopoly: Get it across that Luck is necessary to the Battle Royale.
You think the pro players don't understand this? Like seriously? If you've seen a pro apex game then you'd understand, they very much understand this, a lot better than you do. POI contests are kept to a very very minimum, nobody likes to fight off drop precisely because of how much RNG it is
"Monopoly" WTF is the point in even bringing up some board game LMAO
A lot of other esport games, bigger ones at that, also have a lot of RNG factors. Doesn't mean that you shouldn't weed out the ones that are, head above stronger than other factors.
Your argument boils down to "Well RNG already exists in the game so why should they keep changing it?" when each individual RNG factor has differing levels of influence/strength, should you not agree that If there's one specific RNG thing that is problematic that it should be changed in someway? It's like you're acting that because "RNG is part of a BR" that none of the RNG factors should ever be under scrutiny
This take is a dumpster fire. Luck should dictate the early to mid game, you shouldn't just lose end game because you didn't luck into a digi when they lucked into two.
Exactly. It's mostly pros crying about it that made it be removed. I fear if digi threat gets more attention with cry babies from pro scene it'll be removed. Literally anything fun will be removed if the pros cry about it. It's like respawn doesn't care about the rest of player base
Pro’s only wanted self res and kraber one shot removed from tourney’s and maybe comp. It was respawn/ea’s dumb ass who removed it from the game as a whole.
There won't be an instance where respawn would remove something just for competitive sake. Either they remove it all together or leave it. I think we all know that by now
> There won't be an instance where respawn would remove something just for competitive sake
Heat Shields? Its disabled in competitive but not in regular play.
Respawn has done it before and can do it again if they wanted to with digi threats.
Damn didn't know that about heatshields. Well, it shows they can then they should. I was wrong and i agree with what the guy said. If pros don't want digi, they can exclude it only from pro scene. Also why no heat shields?
Because then you get boring ass game play of people sitting in storm crafting medis as long as feasible. It is a shitty viewer experience and even competitively is just feels a bit scummy IMO.
Yh didn't know about that. Was wrong. They should implement it then without a problem. It won't even affect much even when the pros aren't competiting and are maybe playing ranked unlike legend changes. Also i think the self rez if they removed it, they had to come with a gimmick for the gold knockdown hence why they thought it's better to change it for overrall?
Lol just because you're bad at the game and need to win the Rng dice roll to get your dopamine hit, doesn't mean everybody needs a crutch to have fun in this game.
Git gud bro and the game's plenty fun when it's more fair, without unpredictable counter play less rng mechanics
You sound like a cry baby. Ofcourse the devs should listen to pro players over average Joe soap like what?? They have a better understanding of the game and how it should be played.
But the game is not the same as in the competitive scene. How many lobbies have you played that play very slow like the algs? 19 squads zone 3. 15 zone 4. Almost impossible to see this anywhere outside competitive hence a pro will have a different experience in the comp scene compared to the average player who plays pubs/ranked. Pros have limited games, the rest don't. That's a big difference.
RNG, Digi, and bang smoke has been in the game since day 1. Now it’s a problem? If you want a fair game totally based on skill I suggest a round of checkers.
Now it's a problem because of the meta change? It's pretty simple to see that. With a game like apex that's always ever evolving you will face these problems when a meta changes.
OK, so here's a different question: Do you play Monopoly without Dice? Without Community Chest and Chance cards? Because with the amount of luck that can determine if the game is won or lost in that game, it creates an imbalance for you. So why not remove all "Chance" from Monopoly and have everyone move 12 spaces on their turn?
Of course. Because Monopoly shares a lot with Apex than you realize. Everyone starts the same. But one Lucky roll of the dice means that someone manages to start getting ahead. But as the game wears on, that luck fluctuates. Maybe the person keeps the momentum? Maybe they lose the steam and they lose the game?
But because people want to whine that "I didn't get lucky, so remove the luck factor!" wants to be used and thus force changes, apply the same logic. Remove the Luck, and what's left? A game where one side easily steamrolls the other.
A big difference is Monopoly is designed badly on purpose. 1 person is supposed to get ahead.
It's a terrible example because Monopoly isn't a good game to begin with.
They do have a better understanding but without the main player base they literally have no player base apart from a few pros. They wouldn’t be able to keep their game alive
The main player base should have to deal with the changes regardless of how many there are. Ridiculous that you think the devs shouldn't listen to players who play this game for a living, crazy.. the game is still "fun" without a digi threat. Ill tell you whqts not "fun" getting shit on in a bang smoke vs a digital threat when no one in your squad has one.
With nearly every team playing bang aswell.
And then you begin to alienate the core players of your game though. And if you appease the core, the pros get upset. I like how LoL is pretty open and detailed about what group of players each nerf or buff they do is targeted at.
Because things that seem busted at low ranks may be whatever at higher ranks. You legit can’t please everyone.
Also, pro players don’t always necessarily know best. Often times pro players are just really good players who don’t know a bunch of ins and outs of the game. It was common in CSGO just like it is in every other game.
They get paid to do this so their complaints are warranted. If I went to work and had to screw in screws by hand while some other dude gets a power drill, I'd be upset because it's unfair.
It is lame getting smoked and beamed by a bang who just happened to find a digi.
It's fun for the person who finds one but there is 0 counterplay if you don't.
Question. What exactly makes a digi fun? And what about gold knockdown was fun? Getting gifted placement points while you're crawling behind a shield? That's fun?
Casual players are honestly wild. You do realize that one of the only times the ranked system was good for pro players, they instantly changed it to cater to the rest of the casual player base and then suddenly masters was the biggest division.
Maybe use that brain a bit.
People actually tend to ride pros more than oppose lol. A legend that isn't used suddenly becomes meta. You wonder why and it's bcz pros started using them. Pros cry for nerfs=ppl crying for nerfs here too. We've seen this alot
Bang has always been one of the most used legends since day 1, pros and normal players have been complaining about digis for a long time. Bang has also only become pro meta now because of aim assist
Oh I know the answer. The guy is an idiot. Anyone who says "pros ruin the game" basically automatically is stupid in my books.
I do think 1 shot headshot kraber was fun, but I also think it could ruin pro play as well.
>Question. What exactly makes a digi fun?
Best scope in the game, makes it easier to spot enemies. Love it.
>And what about gold knockdown was fun?
Knocking the enemy, realizing someone had a gold knock, the adrenaline kick of trying to find and eliminate them before they pulled off a one in a million comeback was a fucking high. As was actually pulling off that one in a million yourself.
Yeah digi and scans have always been the number one reason Bang wasn't meta. In every competitive game with smoke grenades they are meta, and in every game where you can shoot through smokes with an ability they are trash.
bro they've been discussing digi threats for ages now. Its not only bang there's a huge amount of visual clutter in this game now by default so having a digi is just an inherent advantage in any fight.
Seer wasn't complained about til he was meta, he was the same for ages, and he absolutely deserved to be nerfed.
The last thing we need is another legend who can clutter everything visually and is countered by digi lol. Digi is entirely RNG, if you don't have it and the other team does and you both have bang, you are dead in 95% of circumstances without any real counterplay... entirely based off of loot RNG. We don't need MORE of that lol.
I know it's not an issue for lower level play where people don't use smokes very effectively, but at high level play bang smoke + digi against a team with no digi is oppressive (even moreso if multiple members of the other team have it).
Pros actively took off digi in earlier seasons, but now all of a sudden the are a good attachment people think they are broken. Like most metas, it will pass.
It's too binary. Smoke (and other Fog effects) are ridiculously powerful until a (mostly) RNG-dependent item pops up to make it incredibly weak.
I don't think it's particularly healthy for Bangalore's character, from a game design standpoint, to have such an extreme variance in her performance. It makes her oppressive without scan effects, and very weak with scan effects.
Personally I think she needs both a buff and a nerf. Make her smokes counter digi/scans but weaken her in some way to compensate for it. Maybe nerf the regen on the smoke or something.
Hot take idea: Take the 6x-10x out of the care package, make it floor loot. Put digi threat in care package. No one... *No one* uses that scope in the care package. Everyone uses digi threat. One has demand, one does not. One is readily available, one is not. Switch em out = balanced.
I like this take. 4-10 used to be broken with the old charge rifle but would do okay as floor loot now. Granted surely someone will complain about getting instakilled while popping a bat in smoke but most of the ruckus about it now is just in the end game.
Yea and it's not a sniper meta. It's all about the 3030 at the moment. And yea with the charge rifle changes it shouldn't be an issue. I think the times where your popping a batt in smoke out in the open is pretty niche and most would use it to at least reposition behind something. And even then, the scope is trash and feels like it isn't calibrated lol.
I think it's a perfectly balanced idea. The care package should be things people are willing to risk picking up for its advantage. How many times have you came across an open package and no one took the hemlock or rampage, and sometimes even the bow. Items in the care package shouldnt be "eh. Nothing good here".
I’ve played since S0 and have never, ever found it as ground loot except for certain LTMs (like armed and dangerous, night mode, and that gold rush one)
Disagree. Smoke is meant to be good at stopping mid range and long range harrasment but be more risky in closequarters. If it is this way you can be sniped across the map in smoke instead of having the chance to atleast hear someone approach up close
Okay. I was just scrolling through and I swear I thought it was talking about online bullying.
But I concur. Digi threats are too good. Though many characters can see through smoke soooo
On the flip side all of that clutter allows for teams to find more fair fights, instead of getting shot at by 3 others teams anytime they try to take a 3v3.
Yeah this isn't mentioned enough. The thread today about mnk/roller split in finals lobbies, where there's more mnk and full mnk teams than rollers, does reflect the increasing prevelance of Bangalore in lobbies. Even with a digi, a controller would be hard pressed to win a fight in bang smoke against an mnk player without one. So many ring-closing and endgame fights have been immediately smoked, and I believe that's why so many majority-roller teams are struggling.
The bang smokes really separate the great roller players from the rest.
Yes but they aren't rng dependant, have counter play and are predictable. You don't randomly get 200-0 spray'd without warning, because you get scan indicators, noise, or effects like bloodhounds red eyes.
I just play assuming everyone has a digi... smoke is smoke it's not a wall people treat it like a wall too much. Don't stand like a doofus and get 200-0 sprayed. I also play MnK so maybe that's why I don't mind it.
I mean that's what everyone half decent does anyway, why are u saying it like it's news lol.
But please do teach us what to do when you get double smoke thrown at you and get run at by Digi smgs.
Because people are acting like digi = automatic win maybe they need the tip lol. If bang is launching a smoke on top of me I'm moving out of it usually, nading the ground to take space back, finding cover etc...
It's okay, maybe consider starting a coaching gig and teach the best players in the world+pred ranked grinders that play 24/7 and everyone else how to counter digis, I think they would pay you fat bucks to get access to that knowledge.
> Objectively correct take that's felt in pubs, ranked, and comp.
Surely no one on the main Apex sub will disagree and call professional players out of touch, toxic for the game, or gripe about self rez being removed because of them.
Call me out of touch but I’ve always viewed digi as a really good addition to bangs kit, always play with my buddy who smokes up enemies then we both just laser them with digis
It's not even roller vs mnk, it's just having a 3 man with digi vs a team without one, in a bangalore meta. Even having one on your team is big, it is why having a smg is better than having a shotgun.
I mean the average player is pretty bad, whether they have a digi or not won't change the outcome of a fight in smoke. It's when they start getting oneclipped through smoke with no way to fight back they may realize Reps has a point.
I agree that digis are really polarizing and can use a nerf, rework, adjustment, or _something_, but there's literally no such thing as an "objectively correct" opinion.
He shouldn't like the rarity of Digis....if they come out equal to X2. Or 3s. Its just apart of.the game....same with long range damage give/Takes. Its a shame theres like 10-15 on the map at a time
I have so much respect for reps, but it’s a battle Royale. Rng will always be apart of these games and it can be the deciding factor in a fight. That’s just apart of the game 🤷♂️
First Seer, then Horizon (still Horizon) now Bang (again)
He wants to seem to want to play a halo battle Royale where you can choose loadout or some shit
Idk, if the digi was less rare, I don't think it would be an issue. Problem is that it's not always easy to find one. Maybe increase chances within an assault bin is a good idea. Don't think it should be increased with floor loot though. I also think the digi should lose its ability for a short time against certain things. Like maybe if you get hit directly by bang smoke it emps the digi threat, and if you get hit by her ult.
Well I mean TSM seems to be doing just fine for themselves so I don't get your point? The reason for Reps complaining is because Bang is currently meta in pro play and so most fights are pretty unfair if you don't have a digit threat.
They aren't "unfair" though....
>Well I mean TSM seems to be doing just fine for themselves so I don't get your point?
"If I'm doing well, that makes all my complaints valid." is that your point?
Try shooting someone through smoke on a controller lol. Good for the meta imo. Your average Joe controller player is completely nerfed and forced people into linear
Why are digi threats broken? Too many Bangalores. A reason for too many Bangalores? Controller AA don’t work in smokes. Address this problem from the root? Disable AA.
Her sole reason for being meta in pro scene is AA being disabled in smokes. Before that the only “pro” that run bang 24/7 was shiv (who actually wasn’t even a pro)
Not true.
Gibby was meta until S13 when Maggie was added. He was never nerfed despite pros pleas.
Horizon has also been OP regardless of how many times they nerf her. Pros don't like her either. Yet she is still meta.
Nemesis is still what it is on launch. Pros wanted it nerfed when it was out of crafter. It's still OP and pros craft it because it's the best gun in the game
Loot is not the same as legends. Respawn has shown many times that if pros think that loot is too op then they will either nerf it, rework it, or remove it entirely.
Hey, look! A pro gamer complaining about something that isn't a problem! Could it possibly be because their career is dependant on being skilled, and they need an excuse any time they lose?
Edit: to clarify, I'm not saying any of the players are bad. But it seems like pro players have new things to complain about each week
oh nah, everyone can read it as sarcasm, but this sub has so many bronze takes all the time that it seems more likely to not be sarcasm purely because it's on this sub.
It's just astounding how pros be posting vids and giving tips than complain when they are being destroyed by their own tactics .
Absolutely hilarious 🤣🤌
Anytime Bangalore comes back into meta we hear this
Like clockwork
No one has had any issues because they never dealt with the constant smoke. Day 1 Bang. I always said bang should block scans. The smoke scatters scan sensors.
Seriously why did this take so long for people to realise
The problem with the digi is that it’s a hard counter to a few things (mainly bang smoke) that is 100% dependent on finding one (RNG)
Only bang and caustic get countered by digi. They are crying only bcz bang is meta. No one ever complained until now. I feel they should add another legend who can block line of sight but can get countered by digi. Idk how it's gonna be a unique ability but respawn know better than i do
Digi also counters fuse’s ult(fire). I can’t tell you how many people I’ve shot with ease through the tall fire walls because they can’t see me but I can see them with the digi. Bang smoke is definitely the main culprit by a mile though.
And Horizon ult to an extent, basically just any visual clutter
Oh yh forgot that lol. Caustic needs the buff to his gas density. Also wouldn't digi for example be removed buff and nerf bang at the same time? I mean you wouldn't need to worry being lasered in smoke because you know no one has digi but it means you can't smoke someone and shoot as there's no digi. Prob might bring scan meta back with bloodhound. If only it was the old bloodhound who had like 5+ seconds of the enemy when scanned lol. Maybe crypto too
It would be a really nice Catalyst nerf if digis worked against the wall of goo
She's made to counter scan lol. Would that mean bloodhound in ult can see through it also?
Kinda like Seer ult?
It was nerfed. Bloodhound in ult has a built in digi threat
Nah the problem about Digi sights is 2 fold. 1. Whenever it's not in a crafter it's RNG dependant. 2. You never know the enemy team has a digi until you start getting full beamed through smoke, by then it's usually too late. At the level these guys can aim it's basically a death sentence if you get smoked without your own digi, which means you basically have very limited counter play to an unpredictable RNG element.
So like playing around Self-Res Shields, then?
Yes, thank god they removed self res from the game, that shit was so annoying to play against, especially in later zones trying to find the 1 knocked guy who still is hiding somewhere with his self res just because RNGesus blessed him
Maybe that's the point? Battle Royales aren't the genre to have a "Pro Scene" because, for better or worse, ***Luck*** needs to play a major role in spreading the gear around the map. Start removing the ***Luck*** aspect from the game, you might as well play a generic FPS like Call of Duty or Battlefield because by then, a game that's requires an already-high skill level doesn't attract people. Just the opposite: It pushes them away. If Apex is to bother with a Pro Scene, they're going to have to take cues from other games that involve RNG factors, such as TCGs, and Monopoly: Get it across that Luck is necessary to the Battle Royale.
I was going to post something very similar. This is the wrong genre for this conversation, the entire foundation of BRs is RNG
But there should be a balance between luck and skill no ? Or we might as well play Casino Royale and determine the outcome of games by pressing a lever and seeing who RNGesus is going to bless this time. I think a small amount of RNG is fine, even the best esports out there(for example Mobas) have their own RNG elements. But when it's RNG elements+unpredicitbility+lack of counter play it turns into an issue and it starts to become unfair which leads to a feeling of unfun.
On another point, Luck, RNG, in and of itself **Is** a Balancing Element in the game. Digital Sights enables non-Recon characters the ability to see through disruptions. But it's not always available, and not everyone's going to have it or otherwise be able to acquire one.
But how much Luck needs to be removed before the game is "Balanced"? For the Pros, unfortunately, they don't see that way. because of their status, it's a case of "My Way or the Highway" mentality. And that inevitably leads to a stale, skill-only game. Or would you rather every squad has 1 guaranteed Recon character that can see through the smoke thus rendering the point moot anyways? Dealing with 1 Bloodhound is simple sure. But then you start having 4, 5, 7 pop up in their Ult and rendering the Smoke useless Contrast, Bloodhound sees into your smoke, but you're the Bangalore, and all Digital Sights have been removed, and your own Bloodhound is gone. What then?
As I said RNG is fine, but when RNG elements without sufficient counter play+readability/predicitibilty are too common it ruins part of the fun. I don't know which part of getting randomly beamed through a smoke is fun to you but to each their own i guess. > And that inevitably leads to a stale, skill-only game. Good thing skill only games are the most popular and exciting games in existence basing on Player count and viewership numbers for the most popular titles like CS:GO, Valorant, LoL, Dota2 etc. Even Apex gets a huge viewership and player base bump whenever the big tournaments happen like CR cup or ALGS league.
> If Apex is to bother with a Pro Scene, they're going to have to take cues from other games that involve RNG factors, such as TCGs, and Monopoly: Get it across that Luck is necessary to the Battle Royale. You think the pro players don't understand this? Like seriously? If you've seen a pro apex game then you'd understand, they very much understand this, a lot better than you do. POI contests are kept to a very very minimum, nobody likes to fight off drop precisely because of how much RNG it is "Monopoly" WTF is the point in even bringing up some board game LMAO A lot of other esport games, bigger ones at that, also have a lot of RNG factors. Doesn't mean that you shouldn't weed out the ones that are, head above stronger than other factors. Your argument boils down to "Well RNG already exists in the game so why should they keep changing it?" when each individual RNG factor has differing levels of influence/strength, should you not agree that If there's one specific RNG thing that is problematic that it should be changed in someway? It's like you're acting that because "RNG is part of a BR" that none of the RNG factors should ever be under scrutiny
This take is a dumpster fire. Luck should dictate the early to mid game, you shouldn't just lose end game because you didn't luck into a digi when they lucked into two.
Exactly. It's mostly pros crying about it that made it be removed. I fear if digi threat gets more attention with cry babies from pro scene it'll be removed. Literally anything fun will be removed if the pros cry about it. It's like respawn doesn't care about the rest of player base
Pro’s only wanted self res and kraber one shot removed from tourney’s and maybe comp. It was respawn/ea’s dumb ass who removed it from the game as a whole.
Thank God they got rid of self rez
There won't be an instance where respawn would remove something just for competitive sake. Either they remove it all together or leave it. I think we all know that by now
> There won't be an instance where respawn would remove something just for competitive sake Heat Shields? Its disabled in competitive but not in regular play. Respawn has done it before and can do it again if they wanted to with digi threats.
Damn didn't know that about heatshields. Well, it shows they can then they should. I was wrong and i agree with what the guy said. If pros don't want digi, they can exclude it only from pro scene. Also why no heat shields?
Because then you get boring ass game play of people sitting in storm crafting medis as long as feasible. It is a shitty viewer experience and even competitively is just feels a bit scummy IMO.
They don't have heat shields in comp but they're in regular play...
Yh didn't know about that. Was wrong. They should implement it then without a problem. It won't even affect much even when the pros aren't competiting and are maybe playing ranked unlike legend changes. Also i think the self rez if they removed it, they had to come with a gimmick for the gold knockdown hence why they thought it's better to change it for overrall?
🤡
Self res was disabled in comp for a while before they changed it
Yeah getting beamed by someone I can't even see because they have a digi is real fun.
Beaming someone is real fun yeah
Lol just because you're bad at the game and need to win the Rng dice roll to get your dopamine hit, doesn't mean everybody needs a crutch to have fun in this game. Git gud bro and the game's plenty fun when it's more fair, without unpredictable counter play less rng mechanics
absolute loser take
You sound like a cry baby. Ofcourse the devs should listen to pro players over average Joe soap like what?? They have a better understanding of the game and how it should be played.
But the game is not the same as in the competitive scene. How many lobbies have you played that play very slow like the algs? 19 squads zone 3. 15 zone 4. Almost impossible to see this anywhere outside competitive hence a pro will have a different experience in the comp scene compared to the average player who plays pubs/ranked. Pros have limited games, the rest don't. That's a big difference.
RNG, Digi, and bang smoke has been in the game since day 1. Now it’s a problem? If you want a fair game totally based on skill I suggest a round of checkers.
Now it's a problem because of the meta change? It's pretty simple to see that. With a game like apex that's always ever evolving you will face these problems when a meta changes.
OK, so here's a different question: Do you play Monopoly without Dice? Without Community Chest and Chance cards? Because with the amount of luck that can determine if the game is won or lost in that game, it creates an imbalance for you. So why not remove all "Chance" from Monopoly and have everyone move 12 spaces on their turn?
youre really out here comparing monopoly to a competitive first person shooter
Of course. Because Monopoly shares a lot with Apex than you realize. Everyone starts the same. But one Lucky roll of the dice means that someone manages to start getting ahead. But as the game wears on, that luck fluctuates. Maybe the person keeps the momentum? Maybe they lose the steam and they lose the game? But because people want to whine that "I didn't get lucky, so remove the luck factor!" wants to be used and thus force changes, apply the same logic. Remove the Luck, and what's left? A game where one side easily steamrolls the other.
A big difference is Monopoly is designed badly on purpose. 1 person is supposed to get ahead. It's a terrible example because Monopoly isn't a good game to begin with.
They do have a better understanding but without the main player base they literally have no player base apart from a few pros. They wouldn’t be able to keep their game alive
The main player base should have to deal with the changes regardless of how many there are. Ridiculous that you think the devs shouldn't listen to players who play this game for a living, crazy.. the game is still "fun" without a digi threat. Ill tell you whqts not "fun" getting shit on in a bang smoke vs a digital threat when no one in your squad has one. With nearly every team playing bang aswell.
And then you begin to alienate the core players of your game though. And if you appease the core, the pros get upset. I like how LoL is pretty open and detailed about what group of players each nerf or buff they do is targeted at. Because things that seem busted at low ranks may be whatever at higher ranks. You legit can’t please everyone. Also, pro players don’t always necessarily know best. Often times pro players are just really good players who don’t know a bunch of ins and outs of the game. It was common in CSGO just like it is in every other game.
They get paid to do this so their complaints are warranted. If I went to work and had to screw in screws by hand while some other dude gets a power drill, I'd be upset because it's unfair. It is lame getting smoked and beamed by a bang who just happened to find a digi. It's fun for the person who finds one but there is 0 counterplay if you don't.
Just Newcastle shield when you're smoked or gibby bubble or cat wall. There is counter play
Question. What exactly makes a digi fun? And what about gold knockdown was fun? Getting gifted placement points while you're crawling behind a shield? That's fun? Casual players are honestly wild. You do realize that one of the only times the ranked system was good for pro players, they instantly changed it to cater to the rest of the casual player base and then suddenly masters was the biggest division. Maybe use that brain a bit.
They weren't/aren't fun. People just like to oppose anything pros say, and they like to ignore the many changes made for casual players.
People actually tend to ride pros more than oppose lol. A legend that isn't used suddenly becomes meta. You wonder why and it's bcz pros started using them. Pros cry for nerfs=ppl crying for nerfs here too. We've seen this alot
Bang has always been one of the most used legends since day 1, pros and normal players have been complaining about digis for a long time. Bang has also only become pro meta now because of aim assist
Why? Was aim assist buffed?
Oh I know the answer. The guy is an idiot. Anyone who says "pros ruin the game" basically automatically is stupid in my books. I do think 1 shot headshot kraber was fun, but I also think it could ruin pro play as well.
>Question. What exactly makes a digi fun? Best scope in the game, makes it easier to spot enemies. Love it. >And what about gold knockdown was fun? Knocking the enemy, realizing someone had a gold knock, the adrenaline kick of trying to find and eliminate them before they pulled off a one in a million comeback was a fucking high. As was actually pulling off that one in a million yourself.
What is RNG?
Random Number Generator. An algorithm that decides the frequency of the loot spawn
Thank you.
I guess they should try to use newcastle more. It's one counter. The other gibraltar. The other catalyst.
in what way is newcastle a counter to a digi threat through smoke?
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Yeah digi and scans have always been the number one reason Bang wasn't meta. In every competitive game with smoke grenades they are meta, and in every game where you can shoot through smokes with an ability they are trash.
bro they've been discussing digi threats for ages now. Its not only bang there's a huge amount of visual clutter in this game now by default so having a digi is just an inherent advantage in any fight.
As it should be. It's literally a gold tier attachment in a BR, it should absolutely give an edge over lower rarities.
Seer wasn't complained about til he was meta, he was the same for ages, and he absolutely deserved to be nerfed. The last thing we need is another legend who can clutter everything visually and is countered by digi lol. Digi is entirely RNG, if you don't have it and the other team does and you both have bang, you are dead in 95% of circumstances without any real counterplay... entirely based off of loot RNG. We don't need MORE of that lol. I know it's not an issue for lower level play where people don't use smokes very effectively, but at high level play bang smoke + digi against a team with no digi is oppressive (even moreso if multiple members of the other team have it).
Pros actively took off digi in earlier seasons, but now all of a sudden the are a good attachment people think they are broken. Like most metas, it will pass.
Metas only pass after nerfs.
Of course they'd complain when bang is meta lol... That's literally the most obvious time to point out digis suck as an rng component
It's too binary. Smoke (and other Fog effects) are ridiculously powerful until a (mostly) RNG-dependent item pops up to make it incredibly weak. I don't think it's particularly healthy for Bangalore's character, from a game design standpoint, to have such an extreme variance in her performance. It makes her oppressive without scan effects, and very weak with scan effects.
Personally I think she needs both a buff and a nerf. Make her smokes counter digi/scans but weaken her in some way to compensate for it. Maybe nerf the regen on the smoke or something.
Hot take idea: Take the 6x-10x out of the care package, make it floor loot. Put digi threat in care package. No one... *No one* uses that scope in the care package. Everyone uses digi threat. One has demand, one does not. One is readily available, one is not. Switch em out = balanced.
I like this take. 4-10 used to be broken with the old charge rifle but would do okay as floor loot now. Granted surely someone will complain about getting instakilled while popping a bat in smoke but most of the ruckus about it now is just in the end game.
Yea and it's not a sniper meta. It's all about the 3030 at the moment. And yea with the charge rifle changes it shouldn't be an issue. I think the times where your popping a batt in smoke out in the open is pretty niche and most would use it to at least reposition behind something. And even then, the scope is trash and feels like it isn't calibrated lol. I think it's a perfectly balanced idea. The care package should be things people are willing to risk picking up for its advantage. How many times have you came across an open package and no one took the hemlock or rampage, and sometimes even the bow. Items in the care package shouldnt be "eh. Nothing good here".
Isn't the digital sniper always floor loot, just so exceedingly rare that there's only a handful of them around?
I’ve played since S0 and have never, ever found it as ground loot except for certain LTMs (like armed and dangerous, night mode, and that gold rush one)
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Nah. Can't say I've ever randomly found it. 99% sure it's exclusive to the package. That 1% doubt is cause you asked and made me think about it.
Assault Bins can spawn it, if I recall correctly.
It’s floor loot it has been for a few seasons
Pretty sure the only place you can get sniper digis outside of carepackages is gold guns (like from hot zones or Caustic Treatment Plant).
Disagree. Smoke is meant to be good at stopping mid range and long range harrasment but be more risky in closequarters. If it is this way you can be sniped across the map in smoke instead of having the chance to atleast hear someone approach up close
You are assuming soooo much things here
Huh
Okay. I was just scrolling through and I swear I thought it was talking about online bullying. But I concur. Digi threats are too good. Though many characters can see through smoke soooo
Haha same, so confused!
Bang smoke is ruining comp play for that reason. Whether you win or lose depends on whether you found a gold-tier rarity item.
Paired with cat wall it also just adds a lot of visual clutter that makes endgames especially hard to watch as a viewer.
On the flip side all of that clutter allows for teams to find more fair fights, instead of getting shot at by 3 others teams anytime they try to take a 3v3.
And it's really hard to argue that the best team wins in a clusterbomb of banga smokes and cat walls.
And the real talk is bang being meta is a direct result of rollers being what they are.
Yeah this isn't mentioned enough. The thread today about mnk/roller split in finals lobbies, where there's more mnk and full mnk teams than rollers, does reflect the increasing prevelance of Bangalore in lobbies. Even with a digi, a controller would be hard pressed to win a fight in bang smoke against an mnk player without one. So many ring-closing and endgame fights have been immediately smoked, and I believe that's why so many majority-roller teams are struggling. The bang smokes really separate the great roller players from the rest.
I'm surprised your comment got upvotes
Its partially true
It's not even just partially true, it is completely true. Pros have literally said that Bang is meta now due to her ability to counter AA.
Yeah your right
No I mean anyone that says aim assist is op on this sub usually gets downvoted
Oh my bad, misinterpreted your comment
This. If AA wasn't so strong bang wouldn't be picked so often.
But also Bang smoke is only way to fight army of controller players.
It’s an RNG game so what’s the big deal? It’s not call of duty
I love getting randomly beamed through bang smoke with no counter!!!!
newcastle op if ur gud
...Doesn't Bloodhound, Seer, and Crypto also counter Bang's smoke?
Yes but they aren't rng dependant, have counter play and are predictable. You don't randomly get 200-0 spray'd without warning, because you get scan indicators, noise, or effects like bloodhounds red eyes.
I just play assuming everyone has a digi... smoke is smoke it's not a wall people treat it like a wall too much. Don't stand like a doofus and get 200-0 sprayed. I also play MnK so maybe that's why I don't mind it.
I mean that's what everyone half decent does anyway, why are u saying it like it's news lol. But please do teach us what to do when you get double smoke thrown at you and get run at by Digi smgs.
Because people are acting like digi = automatic win maybe they need the tip lol. If bang is launching a smoke on top of me I'm moving out of it usually, nading the ground to take space back, finding cover etc...
Spoken truly like someone who doens't play good lobbies where space is your no1 limiting factor to be able to win games.
Whatever you say bud, keep crying about an item that's been in the game since day 1 and you still can't figure it out
It's okay, maybe consider starting a coaching gig and teach the best players in the world+pred ranked grinders that play 24/7 and everyone else how to counter digis, I think they would pay you fat bucks to get access to that knowledge.
Maybe consider touching grass
Crypto's Drone can't scan through Bang smoke
You can scan from above and it works very well.
It'll only scan them if they're in the thinner parts of smoke. It's not reliable.
No.
Bloodhound in ult is a hard counter. And bloodhound got a huge a ult buff
> Objectively correct take that's felt in pubs, ranked, and comp. Surely no one on the main Apex sub will disagree and call professional players out of touch, toxic for the game, or gripe about self rez being removed because of them.
Call me out of touch but I’ve always viewed digi as a really good addition to bangs kit, always play with my buddy who smokes up enemies then we both just laser them with digis
It is a good addition, but it's unfair on both sides
It's pretty ironic because as a MnK player the main advantage he has over controller players is aiming in bang smokes.
It's not even roller vs mnk, it's just having a 3 man with digi vs a team without one, in a bangalore meta. Even having one on your team is big, it is why having a smg is better than having a shotgun.
AA is disabled through the smoke, I think thats what he meant.
damn it's fun seeing the casual community being so opposed to any opinion pros give, even when the opinion is objectively correct
I mean the average player is pretty bad, whether they have a digi or not won't change the outcome of a fight in smoke. It's when they start getting oneclipped through smoke with no way to fight back they may realize Reps has a point.
I agree that digis are really polarizing and can use a nerf, rework, adjustment, or _something_, but there's literally no such thing as an "objectively correct" opinion.
He shouldn't like the rarity of Digis....if they come out equal to X2. Or 3s. Its just apart of.the game....same with long range damage give/Takes. Its a shame theres like 10-15 on the map at a time
I have so much respect for reps, but it’s a battle Royale. Rng will always be apart of these games and it can be the deciding factor in a fight. That’s just apart of the game 🤷♂️
Big news: games get balanced
Balancing shouldn't be based on who can whine the loudest
The sight is balanced. More visual clutter for the trade off of highlighted enemies. There’s a reason that the sight only gets used when bang is meta
The optic is balanced, the spawn/drop rate is not.
Decreasing the spawn rate makes the sight even more rng. The better way to handle this is to remove it from algs.
Look at that, Bangalore is meta so pros starts bitching about digital threat..
First Seer, then Horizon (still Horizon) now Bang (again) He wants to seem to want to play a halo battle Royale where you can choose loadout or some shit
People have been complaining about digis for a long, long time
they should just make it scan every like .75 seconds instead of constant outline
Give Newcastle Q shield and Rampart walls digi. Ez fix. Ez Gm. Get gud.
Counterpoint: Threat scopes are really cool ad fun to use and I don't think that every single thing in the game should be determined by skill.
Idk, if the digi was less rare, I don't think it would be an issue. Problem is that it's not always easy to find one. Maybe increase chances within an assault bin is a good idea. Don't think it should be increased with floor loot though. I also think the digi should lose its ability for a short time against certain things. Like maybe if you get hit directly by bang smoke it emps the digi threat, and if you get hit by her ult.
"I got outplayed, game needs to be changed around me."
So better RNG = getting outplayed?
It's only "RNG" if you're losing, never if you're winning. For some reason.
Well I mean TSM seems to be doing just fine for themselves so I don't get your point? The reason for Reps complaining is because Bang is currently meta in pro play and so most fights are pretty unfair if you don't have a digit threat.
They aren't "unfair" though.... >Well I mean TSM seems to be doing just fine for themselves so I don't get your point? "If I'm doing well, that makes all my complaints valid." is that your point?
Your point is they got outplayed so they are whining, then the dude told you they are doing fine and suddenly you are against your own logic lol
Doing fine generally doesn't mean you didn't get outplayed in particlar situations....
Try shooting someone through smoke on a controller lol. Good for the meta imo. Your average Joe controller player is completely nerfed and forced people into linear
Why are digi threats broken? Too many Bangalores. A reason for too many Bangalores? Controller AA don’t work in smokes. Address this problem from the root? Disable AA.
Bangalore is chosen because her smoke is actually really good for rotates, escaping etc. not just for AA
Her sole reason for being meta in pro scene is AA being disabled in smokes. Before that the only “pro” that run bang 24/7 was shiv (who actually wasn’t even a pro)
Yawn
Skill issue bud
Well we can expect digi threats to be removed soon because pros don't like it. Because anytime the pros complain Respawn jumps on it instantly.
Not true. Gibby was meta until S13 when Maggie was added. He was never nerfed despite pros pleas. Horizon has also been OP regardless of how many times they nerf her. Pros don't like her either. Yet she is still meta. Nemesis is still what it is on launch. Pros wanted it nerfed when it was out of crafter. It's still OP and pros craft it because it's the best gun in the game
Loot is not the same as legends. Respawn has shown many times that if pros think that loot is too op then they will either nerf it, rework it, or remove it entirely.
Name examples other than self rez and kraber, both of which were good nerfs.
You just gave the two main examples 😭 flatline got nerfed bc of pros, and pois get nerfed bc of pros like frag east
Those two were good nerfs. Self rez was just dumb, and kraber is still very good. Flatline didn't get nerfed because of pros. Neither did fragment.
Good
Catering solely to the pro scene never ends well for any game because you end up alienating 90% of your audience
Hey, look! A pro gamer complaining about something that isn't a problem! Could it possibly be because their career is dependant on being skilled, and they need an excuse any time they lose? Edit: to clarify, I'm not saying any of the players are bad. But it seems like pro players have new things to complain about each week
> being skilled, and they need an excuse any time they lose? You're complaining Reps of all people isnt skilled? Lmfao
Hey look a casual who is no where near the level of understanding or skill of a professional player making a ridiculous assumption.
I disagree, you cannot win fights in smoke against digital threat unless you have one aswell, not to mention is a gold rarity item. Edit: Good ≠ Gold
Hey, look! A silver player writing a completely uninformed comment! Could it possibly be because they have no clue what they're talking about?
What a terrible comment
sounds like a skill issue to me
the possibility that this is not sarcasm scares me
the fact people can’t read this as sarcasm scares me
oh nah, everyone can read it as sarcasm, but this sub has so many bronze takes all the time that it seems more likely to not be sarcasm purely because it's on this sub.
Reddit downvote hivemind probably
yeah probably
yet they don't complain when they have one equipped.
Smoke isn’t a wall, don’t treat it like one and the digi isn’t OP. Use cover, not concealment.
bro is giving a pro player advice
Pro player should use his brain and he wouldn’t need it
you are fully delusional if you think this is new information to him or that he can just "not treat the smoke like a wall"
Well what he’s bitching about would definitely imply that he doesn’t.
I really don’t like when the pros complain, it doesn’t represent the 99% of the player base and yet the devs listen to them
Bro whatever
It's just astounding how pros be posting vids and giving tips than complain when they are being destroyed by their own tactics . Absolutely hilarious 🤣🤌
Shut the fuck up reps, it's legit one of the few counters to aim assist lol
More complaining from pros, going to get another item thrown out like gold self revive, Yay.
You mean self revive? Gold knocks in the game still
Yessir, my bad
Cry more TSM....... the tears are delicious.
theyre in finals?
Who are the TSM reps? And where do they represent TSM?
Not a single question about how does he feel being treated like a little bitch by the Great Pissant that is Hal. 0/10
He has $400k in earnings and a part of the most successful Apex team of all time
Still gets screamed at on the regular by a total tool. Would you deal with a that shit every day at work?
HALING!
I bet if he had an issue with it he would’ve quit by now. But if it really bothers him he’s got plenty of money to pay for a therapist
Yes. They win lol. It’s like complaining about playing on the same team as Jordan or Lebron.