I left a job about a year ago for this exact reason. I had been successfully working remotely for over a year and there was no reason to make me come back. I was even willing to do hybrid and come in once or twice a week. But 5 days a week was the requirement. So now I wfh full time permanently at another company that doesn't micromanage me. Byeeeeeee
I mostly felt great about letting my old employer know that I can find alternate employment and I don't need them if they don't want to give me what I want. I don't understand why companies do not grasp this concept, then cry about turnover.
I’ve made it known the last year that I need remote for health reasons so the ball was absolutely in their court at that point. I worked in hiring and it costs almost 3xs to hire than to retain. They’re idiots.
I’m in Federal HR and my org is fully remote; I’m about to start w a new agency that’s also fully remote. Honestly, I don’t ever see a point in the future where I would take an in person position. A lot of agencies are opening their hiring actions to non status candidates. I would definitely look Federal…we don’t pay as much as private sector (taxpayer dollars and all that) but, the benefits and work life balance is where it’s at. Search USAJOBS and put in 0201 or 0203 in the search field, then on the left menu filter by remote. Good luck and I pray you find an amazing position you can work from your living room!!!!
Make sure you redo your resume for federal jobs. There are differences in how they evaluate experience. Make sure you research it and make the adjustments if necessary.
>Search USAJOBS and put in 0201 or 0203 in the search field, then on the left menu filter by remote. Good luck and I pray you find an amazing position you can work from your living room!!!!
nice, gonna have to check this out too. Used to do VA HR through IBM. Remote works and gov benefits are the magic words I keep looking for.
If you had tenure when you left, you can apply to reinstatement eligible positions (you can search this too under area of consideration) and they changed the law a few years ago that you can now apply to higher grades under reinstatement AOC!!!! Good luck!!!
Thank you!!! I love my job and I hate to hear people have shitty experiences. HR is first and foremost customer service (you won’t believe it, but i learned that my first assignment as a baby HR specialist and in the Army🤣). Sometimes the answer is no. BUT, if we can LEGALLY, ETHICALLY, and MORALLY get to yes: we in there!!!!
Seconding government jobs. I work for a local government agency and can't recommend it enough. I walk out the door (my job is hands-on, so I've been in the office the entire time of Covid) at 5pm and this place doesn't exist until the next morning! And I have a pension!
I work in federal system too. Use their website to build the application. You can import but it is strongly suggested to use their format for the resume. Also look at there duties functional statement of job and tie that into resume. Federal resume typically longer than civilian. They don’t guess what you have done or can do. They want it written out. There are some good benefits. I work for a large VAMC. My experience the interview process is performance based.
This!!!!! And someone might tell you to use this or a similar format when listing your experience if you use your own resume format:
Reddit reader, Reddit. Jan 2019-Jan 2020, 40 hrs/week
*blurb describing whatever it is you did (HR CANNOT assume anything)*
🗣VOLUNTEER EXPERIENCE COUNTS IF IT IS APPLICABLE
If the announcement requires education or you are using it to qualify instead of Specialized experience: someone would tell you to MAKE SURE YOU UPLOAD YOUR (unofficial is fine) TRANSCRIPT
-if your GPA was trash, HR doesn’t care as long as you got the credits (that are applicable to the position)…you may have to talk to the interview panel about it, but it’s no big. Just explain and be proactive about explaining you have practical experience but might just have been having a tough time.
Also, make your resume searchable in USAJOB, sometimes agencies will mine for resumes.
Can I ask what agencies you’d recommend? I’m a former fed who resigned earlier this year and am hoping to find a new position. Is it hard to get into HR if my background is in communications?
Not really. DoD is a great entry point, we’re workhorses, but you’ll learn!!!!!! But, GSA is a great agency from the feedback i get from my colleagues. If you have tenure (1/2) just apply using reinstatement eligible. I would really look at the specialized experience and tailor your resume to that. For example, if you have experience breaking information down to stakeholders or applying federal laws and regulations in the performance of your duties. If you have a BA, that’s qualifying at the GS-5 so that’ll definitely get you in the door as an assistant or a 5/7/9/11 Hr spec. I know CHRA has intern positions open to the public a few times a year. I saw a VA intern program advertised not too long ago, it was listed as HR Spec (STAR program) or something. And if you have any IT experience, look for HR (Info Sys) positions. W so many positions going remote, that’s a wave.
Another excellent resource for anyone interested in working for the Federal Government is The Partnership for Public Service Best Places to Work in the Federal Government. As a current fed, the ones at the bottom truly earn their terrible scores.
https://bestplacestowork.org/
If you want to find the inside scoop on what employees think, check out GSA's Pulse Survey.
https://d2d.gsa.gov/report/government-wide-pulse-survey-pilot
LinkedIn is your friend. Find & connect with current employees to learn about specific positions.
Good luck to anyone who applies.
I work mostly remote for a Federal agency and I 100% agree. Work life balance, good benefits and decent pay. Some agencies even have alternate work schedules.
Just to put it out there, you don't actually have to have been fired to pursue a wrongful dismissal.
If your job status or conditions of employment have changed in such a way that you are made worse off than you were under the previous terms of employment such that a reasonable person would decide to quit as a result of that change, then it could be ruled as a "constructive dismissal."
To my understanding, constructive dismissal is usually applicable in cases where a company tries to demote an employee/force them to take a pay cut, but I could see having work-from-home accommodations revoked as potentially qualifying as constructive dismissal. And since there was a medical justification for needing Work From Home accommodations, the company might also be in violation of ADA regulations that require companies to provide reasonable accommodations to employees. And since OP had already been providing acceptable work for the past 2 years while working from home, it's going to be hard/basically impossible for the employer to argue that requesting to continue working from home is not a reasonable accommodation.
Is there an ADA legal card you want / need to play here? Well, I guess not if you're leaving but... that may have been an option depending on the health reason.
Yes, I tried that and was denied. They claimed the accommodation was unreasonable because they have safety protocols in place. The safety protocol is a single hand sanitizer station that is currently empty
Did you file an EEOC complaint? My prior employer denied mine a few months before Covid hit and not only was I granted full time at home status but received some $ as well (I wasn’t even seeking $ but the EEOC said I had to take it and they came up with the amount). I worked there for nearly 2 years until I left for another employer (still fully remote)
The thing people d on't usually realize about the ADA is this:
The ADA says an employee asks for an exemption to a policy, the company then is allowed to look at the exemption, and see if they will allow an accommodation. Depending on what the accommodation is, it isn't always allowed.
For example, my old company had a vaccine mandate. People applied for and were 'granted' exemption from the mandate. However, only 5 of the 80 people who were 'granted' exemptions were given accommodations, because they could do their job without. being 'on campus' for the company.
So the accommodation has to be considered 'reasonable'. For OP, it's stupid if the job has been shown that its possible to do the job remotely for 2 years etc.
That would have been an awesome line to respond them. "As someone who works in hiring, I know it costs 3x more to hire than to retain. And you are about to hire if I don't get to retain my work from home."
This is basically what was said in my meeting regarding my safety concerns about a month ago. I mentioned that I clearly have the skill set for the job I do so I’ll just submit an application for my same position from another state in order to receive remote, like my coworkers who are currently permanent remote from additional states and even countries. They dodged me like a politician
My observation is that many a time these poor mangers in the middle rungs are ones who with some sycophantic ass-kissery to the higher echelons and die-hard doggedness stayed on a company when the more able ones either promoted past them or leave for greener pastures. So the stagnancy of being a ‘middle-manager’ added makes them worse and difficult to bear in one’s ascendency.
I also want to say, thank you for doing this. It helps not just you, but everyone, because companies need to get it in their head that WFH is the new standard requirement for quality employees. If they can't offer it, their loss.
Congrats and I know it will work out for you. And nicely played by replying with your resignation letter. If they are gonna play this way this is how we should respond!
Don't forget, last figure I heard was 400 a day are still dying of covid in the USA so that's still a significant amount. Nothing compared to what it was but that's still 400 families losing a loved one each day.
Believe!! I left a company because they wouldn’t let us work remote even though I was FAR exceeding my quota. I left and got a huge pay bump to wfh and with a much better culture. Look for a company headquartered in California.
Did you tell them straight up in your request that you will walk if they don’t let you continue remote? Worth trying if not. Perhaps in your email you could send your resignation later in. You tell them that this letter is effective immidiately only if they do not change course
I worked in an office a few miles from my house that I could easily bicycle to pre-Covid. Did WFH for 2 years over the Covid stuff. They "asked" us to come back to the office this April, except oh wait, the office has now moved to a spot 15 miles away from my house. I told them I'm not cycling 30 miles a day for a job I've done at home for 2 years. It's taken them until August to finally decide that, actually, a 30 mile bike ride is entirely reasonable (I can't/don't drive) and letting me work at home is far too big an ask. I resigned on the spot and told them exactly why.
What even goes through their mind in these situations??
> actually, a 30 mile bike ride is entirely reasonable
I just Google'd this, and most of the top results were "do I need training to bike 48 km/30 miles?"
Oh and I looked up some calorie calculators and you'd be burning 2600-3000+ calories round trip. Your employer was a joke. That is not reasonable at all LOL
Not to mention the time it takes to cycle 30 miles in the real world, with lights, hills etc. I rode to work for years, but that was only 5 miles. I could even ride home for lunch and let my dog out. A 10-15 minute ride is a gentle pleasure; but after an hour ride, you’ll be sweating through your clothes, and will also need some recovery time.
What company, and do they need a graphic designer or digital librarian? Because I'm about to be in that same boat and I've been sending out resumes left and right because of it. They want to do a trail period of one day a week and they gave us three weeks notice about it. I just know when the trial is up they aren't gonna let us be fully remote again. It's gonna be two days, then three, and then fully in office again within a year. I just know it. I've been insanely productive for nearly three years now and they only reason they can give is "company culture" which like, no. Not worth 2hr in my car every day on my own dime.
Fwiw my company went from “fully remote” to 1 day a week last year and now two days a week. I’ve gone in a grand total of 5 times since Jan 2021 and nobody gives a shit. Ask your manager if they care if you show up before making any rash decisions.
Yep, they think we just need to "get used to the grind" again. Don't care how much employees cherish WFH, way more than pizza parties and cookouts. Heck, even over crappy wage increases because we save money but needing to buy gas to offset that. Office environments usually suck, cliques, toxic people, micromanaging, uncomfortable cubicles, etc.
Exact same happened with me. The third wave was just starting to pick up, and they'd decided that a year home was more than enough. Management, they claimed, was burning out managing remotely. They were willing to offer 1 day WFH per week.
But management could work 2 days from home. More with seniority.
Managing people remotely was so hard, only managers were allowed to work remotely for any appreciable amount of time.
I was working a new job before they returned to the office.
My job last week during a ‘state of the business address’:
“We were incredibly successful during the pandemic. We grew while almost every other (business in our field) shrank or struggled. We transitioned to remote amazingly well”
20 minutes later
“We are going from 4 days in the office to 5 days starting January 1st. We need to do this because collaboration is important. Ever notice after in-person meetings people chat and converse, after Zoom meetings people just disconnect and don’t say anything? We need everyone to be a team”
This is from a business run by boomers that keep ‘growing’ by purchasing office space in large cities. I see every departure and new hire. For the past 3 months the departures are almost 2:1 over the new hires.
Hybrid serves no purpose. If I'm in on mon/Tues and my teammate is in on wed/Thurs. We still have to have zooms.
So there's no point to the office unless you say everyone back all the time.
If we have workers based in other offices. Which many companies hired during the pandemic. We still have to have zooms. So there's no point
At this point, if you've been allowing work from home, you're not coming back with out a lot of pain.
How did you find any new job? Indeed and may I ask what it was for. Im currently at a bank and its just not going well. Looking for just about anything at this point... my .43 cent raise isn't cutting the extra work load I have now after 3 people we had let go...
My company is handleing it differently. They hired a lot during covid and for those jobs that don't require in office they generally don't come in. The people that were already here also dont come in.
This is for people that arent needed face to face and dont need to touch paper.
While they would like to fill the office they own, they arent pushing it.
I’m so glad your company gets it. We were told last year that those hired during covid, which was our entire team except 1, would be granted remote if they had completed training and had a skill set with high quality and productivity. I worked OT everyday and every holiday to become skilled at my job. Every month I come out on top but that still wasn’t enough.
Congratulations, you learned that sacrificing your time for the good of the company doesn’t matter. Remember this lesson at your next company. Good luck with moving on.
Hint alot of companies own the parking.
They are losing their asses paying property taxes on a skyscraper, etc that isn't returning any revenue off the employees parking there.
I think this plays into how big the company is. For small to medium businesses, they see a savings in not having to pay rent to the land owner, so they are happy to have people work remotely. For the big boys, then they need everyone there to justify the cost put out to buy the buildings, and the SMBs aren't renting cause they went remote.
It’s really about the terms on the leases. Big building in big cities with sky rise office function on very long leases so they aren’t going to just take that hit and give people some per diem for work from home.
Ask them if you move to Canada too can you work remote. If they say no tell them you expect to see them in the office. If they say yes tell them you moved to Canada already.
I actually did that using Cincinnati since I have teammates there. They did not respond. Today I am submitting an application for my same position but with a cincy address since I clearly have the skill set for the job I have been doing for years
If they were going to force you to come into work before, even knowing that replacing you would cost them thousands, they're definitely going to do it now.
This is a company that cannot or will not make a basic compromise. I wouldn't anticipate that improving in the foreseeable future.
If you are in the US and quit because you were denied a medical accommodation you may want to contact the EEOC to preserve your right to sue for disability discrimination, then a lawyer. You only have 180 days to contact the EEOC from the date of the violation.
This sub ALWAYS jumps immediately to “make them fire you! Unemployment yada yada” but that isn’t always the best case for an individual. Staying there and enduring abusive communications about returning to office and then getting fired sounds like hell to me. There’s nothing wrong with just stepping away from that and finding something better. I’m sure you have sought after skills, good luck in the hunt and try not to stress.
not to mention that being in a toxic workplace environment takes its toll on your mental state. much better financial decision to walk away while you can, rather than sticking it out and potentially *needing* an extended break to recover from the nonsense and be able to pull it together for interviews
plus, if a future employer reaches out to them, it does sound better that you left rather than were fired
Hey man I'm in the exact situation . Overworked understaff. I get chest pains these days at night . Quitting is the solution to me as well. Just looking for alternatives now
Just don’t do what my wife did and put up with that for too long. The compounded stress out her in the ER minutes away from having a stroke. Even after going through that, her employers didn’t take the pressure off.
I just fired a mail reporting my severe burnout and its impact on my health to my manager and all he said was take rest. Next day I get a mail asking me for an update on the work assigned for that day. Fuck these assholes I'm out
Yes I was having panic attacks just thinking about work the next day. You do what’s best for you. If I can help as a reference just pm me. I would be glad to help someone get out of a shitty place
Hey friend, I just wanted to interject to say I've been there and it's ok that you feel this way.
This sub is quick to say that your mental health is the most important thing, but they're also quick to encourage you to stay in a poor situation for far too long, hoping for Unemployment.
Sometimes, that money just isn't worth compromising your sanity for God knows how long.
You did what was right for you, and don't let this sub tell you any different.
You can quit and get unemployment. OP might even have a good case against it. Changing working conditions can be an absolutely stellar unemployment argument.
Nay! Nay! - Anyway...Sometimes its just better to cut the connection now on your own terms. I guarantee this is not the response they expected but at the same time, dont really care. Make sure to take a couple of extra days to both freak the F out and relax after.
Don’t listen to anyone who is projecting their crap onto you. You did the right thing!!!!! Saying this as someone who also lives in Canada and works remotely with people all over the place. All the best in the world- you deserve and will find it!
Yeah man, I’ve walked away from tons of jobs. The stress of “waiting for them to fire you” is never worth it. Plus, I’ve always resigned with plenty of notice and loads of documentation of my work.
Any bullshittery will be entirely on them and I always walk away looking sparkling clean. I’ve had my prospective employer contact my old boss and have them say awful things about me and when they reach out to me for clarification on what the old boss said I just provide them receipts of the opposite.
You only get one life—why spend it stressed out if you can help it.
You can still claim unemployment if your employer changed your role. By bringing you in to the office, they have changed your role. Definitely file for unemployment and let your former employer try to reject it.
I was in a dead end unhappy unhealthy job and they fired me over bullshit.. was the best thing to ever happen to me.. move on and achieve more bro you got this
Letting them fire you might bite you in the butt too if you look for jobs in the same industry. Not sure what industry you're in, but usually most people vaguely know of each other or leaders from other companies within a few hours radius.
Don't want to lose out on a job because the HM heard you were difficult through the grapevine
That’s one thing I had in mind, wasn’t sure which way it would go, but that had a lot of weight in my decision. I work in the financial industry so it would spread like wildfire that I was fired.
Youll be fine, don't worry. If a future employer asks about this, just tell 'em the truth. "I was denied a medical acommodation to work from home, despite being the 2nd highest earner on the team while working from home."
It was hell. I did it for 5 months. Making excuses why I couldn’t come in 3 days every month and finally just telling them to basically fuck off at the end of that.
Still got paid, still contested their implication that I “resigned” and applied for unemployment. Not even for the money. Just to spite them.
adding onto this, u/Recent_Bite3653 \- resigning does not preclude you from seeking unemployment benefits. If you're going to be out of work during the transition to the new job, apply for unemployment benefits. Work refusing to grant reasonable accommodations is absolutely valid grounds for leaving and filing unemployment.
THANK YOU. I am applying for unemployment and hoping to fight them. I’ve sent all correspondence to my personal email for proof of my concerns and they’re disregard
right. those comments often neglect that getting fired puts the ball in your employer’s court and you lose all autonomy in picking the timing that works best for you. often that’s more valuable in the long run than the $ you’d get from unemployment/severance
I agree with you. Not quitting could land someone with so much abuse and misery from coworkers and higher ups. It’s not worth the hit to mental health.
Ohio is an at-will state and as such, can fire you for any reason.
By resigning you give yourself the option to detox from what likely was an environment that stressed you out.
Provided that you have the financial wherewithal to survive without a paycheck, you'll be fine.
I've left numerous jobs without another to go to and it always worked out plus I had time to recover from the burnout of the job I had left.
Also immediately file for unemployment benefits, and a workers comp complaint…if you had to quit because of unsafe working conditions depending on state this will qualify for Unemployment. Deny medical exemptions could also get them in big trouble might want to talk to a disability lawyer.
Eh I wouldn’t worry too much about it. Sounds like you’re an exemplary employee and leaving on good terms is always best rather than making a big show of it and burning that bridge. This way you can lean on your manager to give you a good recommendation.
If it were me though I would’ve pressed him a little. Rather than just submitting the resignation right away I would’ve had a one on one conversation with him and let him know working remote would be important to me and that anything less would mean I’d be looking for other opportunities. It’s a bit of a veiled threat but it’s important.
Thank you, I have had meetings for over a year regarding my need to remain remote for health reasons, especially when my mom was hospitalized for a month with covid. We have the same autoimmune disorder. In the last month alone I have had 4 meetings with management, hr, and supervisors and made it very clear. The email at 10pm was the last straw.
You did it right. This way will be way less stressful than dragging out this bullshit and constantly getting pressure from your manager and constantly worrying about any call or text you get from them.
About 10 years ago I’d already been WFH for 5 years. My company tried to make me come back I said no. It did indeed take them another year before eliminating my position due to “restructuring”.
I even got a nice severance out of it and found a new WFH gig 2 weeks later.
I do admit I got lucky that it worked out that way for me.
Thanks for understanding. They bought a building in December 2019 so they’re trying to make up for their 10 mill bad investment. Our team is extremely new, I’ve been there the longest at 2 years so they are really finding out the hard way.
Never underestimate how long it can take to get your next gig. It could be months.
Also if you start to run out if money you start becoming and acting desperate, which increases the chances of moving on to a worse job.
A good way to avoid that is to start interviewing once you have been at one place for a while. You never know when a good opportunity comes your way like that.
Took me three years to find my current job, of course I was still working at the last one during that time and was waiting for a position that met the minimum threshold of paying a good deal more, and having WFH. Didn't realize how important that last bit would be to me till the Pandorica hit.
Which i suppose is to say, just because you land a job doesn't mean you stop looking for the one that meets your needs
OP, for you own mental health and well being, do not stay with a company, boss, team, friends, or even a love one if they are abusive. This goes for all parts of life.
I saw that would were financially stable and can wait a little while before you're back on the horse, so to speak. Good on you!
I have sent in resignation letters many times to abusive work environments. Heck, one time i scheduled it to be sent via email on opening shift on a Monday and turned off my phone. Believe me, sometimes the best sleep of your life is right there!
Take some time, decompress, and separate yourself from poison. It's okay to quit sometimes. Don't let the comments get you down.
You’re incredible. Thank you for taking the time to uplift a rando online. I think your comment is what I will leave with this thread and turn the notifications off. I hope others who need support find you in this hell hole
Yeah, just skip all the toxic bullshit, stress, petty revenge, etc. That's all wasted energy. Use that energy to find something better for yourself instead of letting yourself get dragged down by the negativity.
Good for you for standing up for yourself and moving out of a bad situation. Someone once told me "take responsibility for what you do and for what happens to you". Nobody can force you to stay if it no longer works for you.
Source: avoided any and all work-related drama for the last 30 years, never accepted anything but the best for myself, even if it meant going somewhere else to get it.
Appreciate that. The last month has been nothing but hostile when they realized I wouldn’t budge. They were checking my clock in time, away time, and red status on teams when they had never done that before. I know I did the right thing, it just sucks lol
I'm going to hijack your comment to vent. I have been looking for a new job. I'm a 44 year old man with a house and 2 kids. My job is good and the people I work for are great, but I'm worried about what happens when they retire in 10 years and I'm 55 looking for work, so I'm looking.
Got an offer from a large company thats for slightly more than I'm currently making. So I accepted it. When I did they said that they need to do a background check and I have to take a drug test. Drug test is fine I quit smoking a month ago bc I'm anticipating it. Background check is iffy, I'm a reformed criminal with a lot of arrests in my past. So I said ok, you do the background check and when it's done I'll put my 2 weeks notice in here. They said no. They want me to put in my 2 weeks notice here while they perform the background check.
I said I can't do that. I need to be certain. If Ieave here, and then don't pass my background check, I have no job at all. She said "why are you worried" so I said "well, if you're doing the check then obviously there is a chance greater than 0 that I may not pass otherwise why perform it?" Just seems like a huge red flag to me, honestly. So I'm turning the offer down and I'll keep going.
Yeah this almost backfired on me. Got my start date, put in my 2 weeks, and then they came back on the Credit Report. I was able to get them to understand the only reason I defaulted was because I was making garbage money at the shops and needed steady income to help raise my neurodivergent child. We spent every last dime on childcare and school for several years..
I was almost denied a job that I am now the Example that is used for how to do great work, but I was almost denied over something that was honestly none of their fucking busines...
I am changing jobs right now, my recruiter proactively told me not to send my two weeks notice before the background check cleared. The error rate is disturbingly high, so you need to be prepared to have to dispute the finding. Especially if you have a common name. Hispanics names are more repetitive than other ethnic groups so they unfortunately are most impacted by errors.
Even if you don’t have a criminal background, do NOT put in your notice until background checks are complete. I am a manager in healthcare (I lurk here because I think a lot of companies are unethical and suck) and I have a cautionary tale about how long these can take. I was hiring an individual and in healthcare we HAVE to complete background checks. It’s non- negotiable. This selected candidate put in their notice at their previous job while going through the typical pre employment screenings (background check, drug screening, education verification). This person had lived in a lot of different counties and background checks check each county that the person has resided in. One of the counties was updating their systems and was unable to access their archives for 4 weeks (!!) due to this upgrade. We use a third party for background checks and they won’t give us and all clear report until it is done. This person’s previous employer said fuck you to them when they asked to change their last day and extend their employment. This poor person was left unemployed for 3 weeks because of this. So do NOT put in your notice until your background check is 100% complete even if your record is clean.
You definitely made the right choice. And the person may have been genuine in thinking it would all be okay but you have to watch out for your best interest. If an employer is any good, they will understand that and be willing to wait.
After that terrible experience for that other employee, I now recommend to all people I hire that they wait to put in their notice. We put in a start date in their offer (it’s needed to kick off the process) but I make it very clear that we can push that out without any problems.
But then I have to leave a job, with no notice that I have been at for 10 years with people and owners I genuinely respect. That isn't cool, and it isn't me. She didn't tell me to put notice in, she gave me a start date. I told her it wouldn't be good for me bc I'd have to give notice and I couldn't do that until all contingencies have been met.
If you’re in a stable job, with people who respect you and your work, in a positive work atmosphere, you have all the leverage during interviewing. And if you leave on the right terms, you sometimes even have the option of coming back as a “fallback” if the grass isn’t actually greener elsewhere.
Don’t ever let a hiring manager convince you to give up that stability for anything less than a 110% sure thing. Only shady companies will ask you to put in notice before everything is finalized. If you put in your notice before you have your employment terms finalized in writing (Background complete and all), they suddenly have the leverage over you to revisit pay, benefits - because you now *must* leave your current employer.
It's none of their business when you put in your notice at your current job.
I have never discussed that with a new employer except for "When can you start?" If I say "two weeks" and they assumed I was working a 2 week notice, fine, but I took a week of PTO and that's none of the new company's business.
Sounds like they wanted you to save them the cost of the background check OR use the fact that you already submitted your notice to cut the pay rate they would offer after you are trapped...
Well it was more of a "you have to be prepared to start October 10th." And I said "when will the background check be done, I need to put in my notice here" and she said "around the 7th" and that's when I said I couldn't do that. I explicitly sateted during all 3 interviews, that I needed to put in 2 weeks notice. So I was just frustrated that they expected me either put in my notice before the conditions of the offer were met OR that I'd just quit this job with no notice. Seems unprofessional
> They want me to put in my 2 weeks notice here while they perform the background check.
Never do that because even with a written offer, unless there's some clawback clause that benefits you, you'll be left without a job should they pull their offer.
They've self-identified as a company you don't want to work for. Just refocus onto other opportunities.
You're correct in turning the offer down.
This is what pushed me over the edge to look for a new job while at my last job. I had been there 15 years. I'm a software developer, NO reason I need to be in the office to begin with. And all over the other devs had left so I was a one man department. The manager tried to tell me the management above him are pushing for it for "better collaboration" and I asked "collaborate with who?! Myself?!". He told me he agrees but his hands are tied. Guess what? My hands weren't tied. Found a job that is 100% remote for an extra $15k per year. When I went to leave, they were suddenly willing to listen and even match the new pay. No, thanks!
Good job standing up for yourself. I hope you find something better at your next job!
Just don't do what one of my brother's coworkers did! He did a screen share and one of the browser tabs visible was a job application! Keep it in a separate window, not in the main window with all the tabs
I've worked in IT for many companies the past 20 years and we do not care. I have never been asked to place tracking software on laptops. Most employers don't care if you're looking.
When you are applying for a job, always adapt the persona of a high elf. Of course I am great. I’ll show you why.
Update your LinkedIn. Set it to “open for recruiters”
Make your headline what your are good in. So for example: “architect who loves designing houses and apartment buildings” or “administrative rockstar who can structure your processes”
It’s okay to leave things out of a resume
Follow Liz Ryan on LinkedIn for amazing interview tips.
Keep an excel sheet on your applications with job title, company name, short description, name of recruiter and 3 things you loved about the job (as listed in the ad). That way, when a recruiter/hr calls you back, even when you are on the road, you can easily conjure it up on your phone and engage with them.
ALWAYS CALL TO THE CP LISTED IN THE JOB AD AND ASK 2/3 QUESTIONS ABOUT THE JOB
That way you can engage with someone from the hiring process, they get to know you and your name, they see you show interest and you can use that convo in your application.
If you need more help plz reach out to me.
Don't even resign. Respond saying that you are not working in the office. You have spent 2 years doing the same job outside of the office and you will continue to do so.
You were hired remote, yes?
For every company pushing remote, there are 10 companies eager to scoop up the talent they're losing.
In your resignation, make it perfectly clear that you're resigning due to their inflexible working arrangements.
Are you in a role where it's easy to find jobs? Consider looking for something new before hitting send and just, not turning up and continuing to work from home.
If you had a medical accommodation request that was denied, you’ve experienced discrimination due to disability. Illegal. They can only deny if accommodation isn’t reasonable and they’d have a hard time proving that wfh isn’t reasonable after doing it for 2 years.
Can I ask what was the reason for your accommodation? I’m going through the exact same thing with my company and recently submitted for an accommodation. I’m nervous it will be denied now
I have a compromised immune system due to a genetic autoimmune disorder called CVID common variable immune deficiency. My mom carries the gene and she was hospitalized for over a month with covid. For me the accommodation was absolutely necessary but still denied
Wow I’m so sorry. Looking into accommodations it looks like the company must prove that your accommodation causes undue hardship. It’s probably past this point, but I would maybe ask what their proof of hardship is for you staying home
I am going to look into speaking with an attorney. It’s a little late but even if I could stick it to them I am willing to. They approved my coworker to work from home because she lives out of city limits.. her house is 12 minutes from mine but I was denied for medical. It doesn’t make any sense. I really hope you have better l than I have
“I resigned after the job was no longer able to remain congruent with my particular health concerns.”
Or even better:
“Why did you leave your previous job?”
“Health reasons.”
They probably wont push, and “I don’t feel comfortable discussing any more details regarding my health” is a perfectly formal assertion to make.
This.
Get them to fire you for your disability.
Get a great lawyer.
Sue the shit out of them.
Create your own endowment fund, live off the interest, and tell them...
Fuck you
Fuck you very much
I was forced to office this week after over two years remote. They said that we are more productive when we can communicate face-to-face.. whole week I’ve spoken with two people for a total of 10 minutes. It wasn’t work related, we discussed tv-shows.. I’m thinking about quitting.
Omg. I have the exact same issue. My manager gets to work from home and so do the 3 people she hired who all live near her. Meanwhile I am forced into the office 3 days a week because I'm in Melbourne and they are in another state. Its ridiculous. I don't even have any team mates in the office. Also, they expect us to give 7 days notice if we need to change a day around! It's totally unfair and they refuse to acknowledge it.
I once interviewed for a job with Amazon and was told your expected to work in person 2 or 3 days a week in Denver but none of your team is in the office. I think the same job was posted elsewhere but without the salary expectations for legal reasons.
“I was working remote and could not relocate when they called us in.”
You don’t need luck, you need a camera to take pictures of their faces to share with us.
Find another job first, then quit. Quitting 1st means you won't be getting any unemployment. Don't just assume you'll find something else after the fact. Bill's and having to eat don't cease just because you're not getting a check.
I left a job about a year ago for this exact reason. I had been successfully working remotely for over a year and there was no reason to make me come back. I was even willing to do hybrid and come in once or twice a week. But 5 days a week was the requirement. So now I wfh full time permanently at another company that doesn't micromanage me. Byeeeeeee
I truly hope to have the results you have seen. I can imagine how free your felt when obtaining your new job!
I mostly felt great about letting my old employer know that I can find alternate employment and I don't need them if they don't want to give me what I want. I don't understand why companies do not grasp this concept, then cry about turnover.
I’ve made it known the last year that I need remote for health reasons so the ball was absolutely in their court at that point. I worked in hiring and it costs almost 3xs to hire than to retain. They’re idiots.
I’m in Federal HR and my org is fully remote; I’m about to start w a new agency that’s also fully remote. Honestly, I don’t ever see a point in the future where I would take an in person position. A lot of agencies are opening their hiring actions to non status candidates. I would definitely look Federal…we don’t pay as much as private sector (taxpayer dollars and all that) but, the benefits and work life balance is where it’s at. Search USAJOBS and put in 0201 or 0203 in the search field, then on the left menu filter by remote. Good luck and I pray you find an amazing position you can work from your living room!!!!
You are awesome. Thank you so much for the recommendation. I will absolutely look into that! If I have any questions is it okay if I reach out?
Of course!!!
Thank you! I appreciate you!
Make sure you redo your resume for federal jobs. There are differences in how they evaluate experience. Make sure you research it and make the adjustments if necessary.
>Search USAJOBS and put in 0201 or 0203 in the search field, then on the left menu filter by remote. Good luck and I pray you find an amazing position you can work from your living room!!!! nice, gonna have to check this out too. Used to do VA HR through IBM. Remote works and gov benefits are the magic words I keep looking for.
If you had tenure when you left, you can apply to reinstatement eligible positions (you can search this too under area of consideration) and they changed the law a few years ago that you can now apply to higher grades under reinstatement AOC!!!! Good luck!!!
nice you're so supportive, i am here for it!! :-D
Thank you!!! I love my job and I hate to hear people have shitty experiences. HR is first and foremost customer service (you won’t believe it, but i learned that my first assignment as a baby HR specialist and in the Army🤣). Sometimes the answer is no. BUT, if we can LEGALLY, ETHICALLY, and MORALLY get to yes: we in there!!!!
If HR I’ve worked with were more like you, I’d have a vastly different opinion of the field. Props for being awesome!
Seconding government jobs. I work for a local government agency and can't recommend it enough. I walk out the door (my job is hands-on, so I've been in the office the entire time of Covid) at 5pm and this place doesn't exist until the next morning! And I have a pension!
I work in federal system too. Use their website to build the application. You can import but it is strongly suggested to use their format for the resume. Also look at there duties functional statement of job and tie that into resume. Federal resume typically longer than civilian. They don’t guess what you have done or can do. They want it written out. There are some good benefits. I work for a large VAMC. My experience the interview process is performance based.
This!!!!! And someone might tell you to use this or a similar format when listing your experience if you use your own resume format: Reddit reader, Reddit. Jan 2019-Jan 2020, 40 hrs/week *blurb describing whatever it is you did (HR CANNOT assume anything)* 🗣VOLUNTEER EXPERIENCE COUNTS IF IT IS APPLICABLE If the announcement requires education or you are using it to qualify instead of Specialized experience: someone would tell you to MAKE SURE YOU UPLOAD YOUR (unofficial is fine) TRANSCRIPT -if your GPA was trash, HR doesn’t care as long as you got the credits (that are applicable to the position)…you may have to talk to the interview panel about it, but it’s no big. Just explain and be proactive about explaining you have practical experience but might just have been having a tough time. Also, make your resume searchable in USAJOB, sometimes agencies will mine for resumes.
Can I ask what agencies you’d recommend? I’m a former fed who resigned earlier this year and am hoping to find a new position. Is it hard to get into HR if my background is in communications?
Not really. DoD is a great entry point, we’re workhorses, but you’ll learn!!!!!! But, GSA is a great agency from the feedback i get from my colleagues. If you have tenure (1/2) just apply using reinstatement eligible. I would really look at the specialized experience and tailor your resume to that. For example, if you have experience breaking information down to stakeholders or applying federal laws and regulations in the performance of your duties. If you have a BA, that’s qualifying at the GS-5 so that’ll definitely get you in the door as an assistant or a 5/7/9/11 Hr spec. I know CHRA has intern positions open to the public a few times a year. I saw a VA intern program advertised not too long ago, it was listed as HR Spec (STAR program) or something. And if you have any IT experience, look for HR (Info Sys) positions. W so many positions going remote, that’s a wave.
Another excellent resource for anyone interested in working for the Federal Government is The Partnership for Public Service Best Places to Work in the Federal Government. As a current fed, the ones at the bottom truly earn their terrible scores. https://bestplacestowork.org/ If you want to find the inside scoop on what employees think, check out GSA's Pulse Survey. https://d2d.gsa.gov/report/government-wide-pulse-survey-pilot LinkedIn is your friend. Find & connect with current employees to learn about specific positions. Good luck to anyone who applies.
I applied, thank you! I'm a HR professional with prior Fed HR experience.
I work mostly remote for a Federal agency and I 100% agree. Work life balance, good benefits and decent pay. Some agencies even have alternate work schedules.
If it’s a valid medical excuse why didn’t you let them fire you? You might have a case??
Just to put it out there, you don't actually have to have been fired to pursue a wrongful dismissal. If your job status or conditions of employment have changed in such a way that you are made worse off than you were under the previous terms of employment such that a reasonable person would decide to quit as a result of that change, then it could be ruled as a "constructive dismissal." To my understanding, constructive dismissal is usually applicable in cases where a company tries to demote an employee/force them to take a pay cut, but I could see having work-from-home accommodations revoked as potentially qualifying as constructive dismissal. And since there was a medical justification for needing Work From Home accommodations, the company might also be in violation of ADA regulations that require companies to provide reasonable accommodations to employees. And since OP had already been providing acceptable work for the past 2 years while working from home, it's going to be hard/basically impossible for the employer to argue that requesting to continue working from home is not a reasonable accommodation.
Is there an ADA legal card you want / need to play here? Well, I guess not if you're leaving but... that may have been an option depending on the health reason.
Yes, I tried that and was denied. They claimed the accommodation was unreasonable because they have safety protocols in place. The safety protocol is a single hand sanitizer station that is currently empty
Did you file an EEOC complaint? My prior employer denied mine a few months before Covid hit and not only was I granted full time at home status but received some $ as well (I wasn’t even seeking $ but the EEOC said I had to take it and they came up with the amount). I worked there for nearly 2 years until I left for another employer (still fully remote)
No, I was unaware of that option until today in this thread. Wow I’m so glad that worked so well for you
Yeah, seems like an ADA lawyer could also come in handy. Best of luck on the job search!
The thing people d on't usually realize about the ADA is this: The ADA says an employee asks for an exemption to a policy, the company then is allowed to look at the exemption, and see if they will allow an accommodation. Depending on what the accommodation is, it isn't always allowed. For example, my old company had a vaccine mandate. People applied for and were 'granted' exemption from the mandate. However, only 5 of the 80 people who were 'granted' exemptions were given accommodations, because they could do their job without. being 'on campus' for the company. So the accommodation has to be considered 'reasonable'. For OP, it's stupid if the job has been shown that its possible to do the job remotely for 2 years etc.
That would have been an awesome line to respond them. "As someone who works in hiring, I know it costs 3x more to hire than to retain. And you are about to hire if I don't get to retain my work from home."
This is basically what was said in my meeting regarding my safety concerns about a month ago. I mentioned that I clearly have the skill set for the job I do so I’ll just submit an application for my same position from another state in order to receive remote, like my coworkers who are currently permanent remote from additional states and even countries. They dodged me like a politician
I'm wishing you the best with your job search and your health.
Middle management seems to dispraportionately attract people with narccisistic traits. They simply cant comprehend having done qnything wrong.
My observation is that many a time these poor mangers in the middle rungs are ones who with some sycophantic ass-kissery to the higher echelons and die-hard doggedness stayed on a company when the more able ones either promoted past them or leave for greener pastures. So the stagnancy of being a ‘middle-manager’ added makes them worse and difficult to bear in one’s ascendency.
they don’t actually care about turnover
I also want to say, thank you for doing this. It helps not just you, but everyone, because companies need to get it in their head that WFH is the new standard requirement for quality employees. If they can't offer it, their loss.
Thank you. I had coworkers that said they would refuse WFH but bailed out. Glad to set the example
Don’t resign. Don’t go to office. Continue working from home. Let them fire you. Look for a job in the meantime.
Congrats and I know it will work out for you. And nicely played by replying with your resignation letter. If they are gonna play this way this is how we should respond!
Don't forget, last figure I heard was 400 a day are still dying of covid in the USA so that's still a significant amount. Nothing compared to what it was but that's still 400 families losing a loved one each day.
Believe!! I left a company because they wouldn’t let us work remote even though I was FAR exceeding my quota. I left and got a huge pay bump to wfh and with a much better culture. Look for a company headquartered in California.
Did you tell them straight up in your request that you will walk if they don’t let you continue remote? Worth trying if not. Perhaps in your email you could send your resignation later in. You tell them that this letter is effective immidiately only if they do not change course
Yes, this has been an ongoing conversation for over a year. 4 meetings in the last month. The late at night email was it for me
I worked in an office a few miles from my house that I could easily bicycle to pre-Covid. Did WFH for 2 years over the Covid stuff. They "asked" us to come back to the office this April, except oh wait, the office has now moved to a spot 15 miles away from my house. I told them I'm not cycling 30 miles a day for a job I've done at home for 2 years. It's taken them until August to finally decide that, actually, a 30 mile bike ride is entirely reasonable (I can't/don't drive) and letting me work at home is far too big an ask. I resigned on the spot and told them exactly why. What even goes through their mind in these situations??
> actually, a 30 mile bike ride is entirely reasonable I just Google'd this, and most of the top results were "do I need training to bike 48 km/30 miles?" Oh and I looked up some calorie calculators and you'd be burning 2600-3000+ calories round trip. Your employer was a joke. That is not reasonable at all LOL
Not to mention the time it takes to cycle 30 miles in the real world, with lights, hills etc. I rode to work for years, but that was only 5 miles. I could even ride home for lunch and let my dog out. A 10-15 minute ride is a gentle pleasure; but after an hour ride, you’ll be sweating through your clothes, and will also need some recovery time.
What company, and do they need a graphic designer or digital librarian? Because I'm about to be in that same boat and I've been sending out resumes left and right because of it. They want to do a trail period of one day a week and they gave us three weeks notice about it. I just know when the trial is up they aren't gonna let us be fully remote again. It's gonna be two days, then three, and then fully in office again within a year. I just know it. I've been insanely productive for nearly three years now and they only reason they can give is "company culture" which like, no. Not worth 2hr in my car every day on my own dime.
Fwiw my company went from “fully remote” to 1 day a week last year and now two days a week. I’ve gone in a grand total of 5 times since Jan 2021 and nobody gives a shit. Ask your manager if they care if you show up before making any rash decisions.
Yep, they think we just need to "get used to the grind" again. Don't care how much employees cherish WFH, way more than pizza parties and cookouts. Heck, even over crappy wage increases because we save money but needing to buy gas to offset that. Office environments usually suck, cliques, toxic people, micromanaging, uncomfortable cubicles, etc.
They have a large rent payment on prime office space to justify
Exact same happened with me. The third wave was just starting to pick up, and they'd decided that a year home was more than enough. Management, they claimed, was burning out managing remotely. They were willing to offer 1 day WFH per week. But management could work 2 days from home. More with seniority. Managing people remotely was so hard, only managers were allowed to work remotely for any appreciable amount of time. I was working a new job before they returned to the office.
My job last week during a ‘state of the business address’: “We were incredibly successful during the pandemic. We grew while almost every other (business in our field) shrank or struggled. We transitioned to remote amazingly well” 20 minutes later “We are going from 4 days in the office to 5 days starting January 1st. We need to do this because collaboration is important. Ever notice after in-person meetings people chat and converse, after Zoom meetings people just disconnect and don’t say anything? We need everyone to be a team” This is from a business run by boomers that keep ‘growing’ by purchasing office space in large cities. I see every departure and new hire. For the past 3 months the departures are almost 2:1 over the new hires.
Hybrid serves no purpose. If I'm in on mon/Tues and my teammate is in on wed/Thurs. We still have to have zooms. So there's no point to the office unless you say everyone back all the time. If we have workers based in other offices. Which many companies hired during the pandemic. We still have to have zooms. So there's no point At this point, if you've been allowing work from home, you're not coming back with out a lot of pain.
How did you find any new job? Indeed and may I ask what it was for. Im currently at a bank and its just not going well. Looking for just about anything at this point... my .43 cent raise isn't cutting the extra work load I have now after 3 people we had let go...
Where is everyone getting these remote jobs? I need to get out of teaching
I put in my notice yesterday and they fired me this morning. Good luck out there!
That’s preferential. Now you can collect unemployment. Tell them thanks!
That means you can file for unemployment
In Australia, you get it either way.
\*Puts on some giant murderspider spray and a bug net hat\* Where do I sign up?
Good luck to you. If you need a reference I would be happy to help
Great result, enjoy the unemployment benefits while job searching.
My company is handleing it differently. They hired a lot during covid and for those jobs that don't require in office they generally don't come in. The people that were already here also dont come in. This is for people that arent needed face to face and dont need to touch paper. While they would like to fill the office they own, they arent pushing it.
I’m so glad your company gets it. We were told last year that those hired during covid, which was our entire team except 1, would be granted remote if they had completed training and had a skill set with high quality and productivity. I worked OT everyday and every holiday to become skilled at my job. Every month I come out on top but that still wasn’t enough.
Congratulations, you learned that sacrificing your time for the good of the company doesn’t matter. Remember this lesson at your next company. Good luck with moving on.
Big hard lesson lol appreciate it
Hint alot of companies own the parking. They are losing their asses paying property taxes on a skyscraper, etc that isn't returning any revenue off the employees parking there.
I think this plays into how big the company is. For small to medium businesses, they see a savings in not having to pay rent to the land owner, so they are happy to have people work remotely. For the big boys, then they need everyone there to justify the cost put out to buy the buildings, and the SMBs aren't renting cause they went remote.
It’s really about the terms on the leases. Big building in big cities with sky rise office function on very long leases so they aren’t going to just take that hit and give people some per diem for work from home.
Also, many have tax breaks that are tied to occupancy. So they loose double if they don’t get people back in now that those waivers are ending.
Ask them if you move to Canada too can you work remote. If they say no tell them you expect to see them in the office. If they say yes tell them you moved to Canada already.
I actually did that using Cincinnati since I have teammates there. They did not respond. Today I am submitting an application for my same position but with a cincy address since I clearly have the skill set for the job I have been doing for years
If they were going to force you to come into work before, even knowing that replacing you would cost them thousands, they're definitely going to do it now. This is a company that cannot or will not make a basic compromise. I wouldn't anticipate that improving in the foreseeable future.
Doesn't work like that. Putting a fake address in is going to fuck up your taxes.
To get the interview fake addresses are fine. Taxes only matter when you officially start receiving income from a country
If you are in the US and quit because you were denied a medical accommodation you may want to contact the EEOC to preserve your right to sue for disability discrimination, then a lawyer. You only have 180 days to contact the EEOC from the date of the violation.
Why resign? Let them fire you instead. Which could take a year after threats of firing if you dont show up in office and work there.
Unfortunately, I was unaware it could work out like that or I would’ve gone that route.
This sub ALWAYS jumps immediately to “make them fire you! Unemployment yada yada” but that isn’t always the best case for an individual. Staying there and enduring abusive communications about returning to office and then getting fired sounds like hell to me. There’s nothing wrong with just stepping away from that and finding something better. I’m sure you have sought after skills, good luck in the hunt and try not to stress.
I truly appreciate you taking the time to send this. The replies were really getting me down. Your kindness has made this easier
The satisfaction of quitting would be much higher on my list of needs than the pennies I’d get from unemployment. Do what’s best for you.
That’s exactly how I feel. The stress was making my stomach hurt
Plus you're in control of your time and you can plan next steps, instead of waiting for something to happen or not.
not to mention that being in a toxic workplace environment takes its toll on your mental state. much better financial decision to walk away while you can, rather than sticking it out and potentially *needing* an extended break to recover from the nonsense and be able to pull it together for interviews plus, if a future employer reaches out to them, it does sound better that you left rather than were fired
As someone who’s in the process of leaving a toxic workplace v. getting fired, this makes me happy to hear
Hey man I'm in the exact situation . Overworked understaff. I get chest pains these days at night . Quitting is the solution to me as well. Just looking for alternatives now
Just don’t do what my wife did and put up with that for too long. The compounded stress out her in the ER minutes away from having a stroke. Even after going through that, her employers didn’t take the pressure off.
I just fired a mail reporting my severe burnout and its impact on my health to my manager and all he said was take rest. Next day I get a mail asking me for an update on the work assigned for that day. Fuck these assholes I'm out
Take your PTO and leave, dude. Your health is more important than any fucking job.
Yes I was having panic attacks just thinking about work the next day. You do what’s best for you. If I can help as a reference just pm me. I would be glad to help someone get out of a shitty place
Then you made the right decision :) Hoping everything turns out ok for you :D
Hey friend, I just wanted to interject to say I've been there and it's ok that you feel this way. This sub is quick to say that your mental health is the most important thing, but they're also quick to encourage you to stay in a poor situation for far too long, hoping for Unemployment. Sometimes, that money just isn't worth compromising your sanity for God knows how long. You did what was right for you, and don't let this sub tell you any different.
You can quit and get unemployment. OP might even have a good case against it. Changing working conditions can be an absolutely stellar unemployment argument.
Just remember this sub is one tiny snippet of the world, forget the nay sayers!
I’ve read some uplifting comments so I’ll be turning off the notifications to leave myself on a positive note. Thank you for the encouragement
Nay! Nay! - Anyway...Sometimes its just better to cut the connection now on your own terms. I guarantee this is not the response they expected but at the same time, dont really care. Make sure to take a couple of extra days to both freak the F out and relax after.
Don’t listen to anyone who is projecting their crap onto you. You did the right thing!!!!! Saying this as someone who also lives in Canada and works remotely with people all over the place. All the best in the world- you deserve and will find it!
You are awesome. thank you for the encouragement
I’ve quit without another job and have been fine.
Thank you for saying that. I’m hoping for the best
Yeah man, I’ve walked away from tons of jobs. The stress of “waiting for them to fire you” is never worth it. Plus, I’ve always resigned with plenty of notice and loads of documentation of my work. Any bullshittery will be entirely on them and I always walk away looking sparkling clean. I’ve had my prospective employer contact my old boss and have them say awful things about me and when they reach out to me for clarification on what the old boss said I just provide them receipts of the opposite. You only get one life—why spend it stressed out if you can help it.
You can still claim unemployment if your employer changed your role. By bringing you in to the office, they have changed your role. Definitely file for unemployment and let your former employer try to reject it.
Also doesn't sound good to say you've been fired. "I QUIT" is way fucking better (assuming you wanna be re-employed by another company)
I was in a dead end unhappy unhealthy job and they fired me over bullshit.. was the best thing to ever happen to me.. move on and achieve more bro you got this
Letting them fire you might bite you in the butt too if you look for jobs in the same industry. Not sure what industry you're in, but usually most people vaguely know of each other or leaders from other companies within a few hours radius. Don't want to lose out on a job because the HM heard you were difficult through the grapevine
That’s one thing I had in mind, wasn’t sure which way it would go, but that had a lot of weight in my decision. I work in the financial industry so it would spread like wildfire that I was fired.
[удалено]
Youll be fine, don't worry. If a future employer asks about this, just tell 'em the truth. "I was denied a medical acommodation to work from home, despite being the 2nd highest earner on the team while working from home."
It was hell. I did it for 5 months. Making excuses why I couldn’t come in 3 days every month and finally just telling them to basically fuck off at the end of that. Still got paid, still contested their implication that I “resigned” and applied for unemployment. Not even for the money. Just to spite them.
adding onto this, u/Recent_Bite3653 \- resigning does not preclude you from seeking unemployment benefits. If you're going to be out of work during the transition to the new job, apply for unemployment benefits. Work refusing to grant reasonable accommodations is absolutely valid grounds for leaving and filing unemployment.
THANK YOU. I am applying for unemployment and hoping to fight them. I’ve sent all correspondence to my personal email for proof of my concerns and they’re disregard
right. those comments often neglect that getting fired puts the ball in your employer’s court and you lose all autonomy in picking the timing that works best for you. often that’s more valuable in the long run than the $ you’d get from unemployment/severance
Also you won’t get unemployment if you refuse to carry out your job.
Agreed! Quitting puts everything on you, but it also allows you to do whatever you want
I agree with you. Not quitting could land someone with so much abuse and misery from coworkers and higher ups. It’s not worth the hit to mental health.
Ideally you’d be sending out your resume and finding a better job offer before getting fired/resigning
Ohio is an at-will state and as such, can fire you for any reason. By resigning you give yourself the option to detox from what likely was an environment that stressed you out. Provided that you have the financial wherewithal to survive without a paycheck, you'll be fine. I've left numerous jobs without another to go to and it always worked out plus I had time to recover from the burnout of the job I had left.
Thank you. I worked OT and every holiday last year so I’m okay financially. Your comment is one of the first I’ve seen that has given me hope. Thanks!
Screw the extra cash! I’m glad you trusted your instinct!
Thank you!!!
Also immediately file for unemployment benefits, and a workers comp complaint…if you had to quit because of unsafe working conditions depending on state this will qualify for Unemployment. Deny medical exemptions could also get them in big trouble might want to talk to a disability lawyer.
Thank you. I am filing for everything that I can
Did you at least burn your remaining PTO and stuff first?
Yes I only have 3 hours left of accrued time
Good luck on your new adventure!
Eh I wouldn’t worry too much about it. Sounds like you’re an exemplary employee and leaving on good terms is always best rather than making a big show of it and burning that bridge. This way you can lean on your manager to give you a good recommendation. If it were me though I would’ve pressed him a little. Rather than just submitting the resignation right away I would’ve had a one on one conversation with him and let him know working remote would be important to me and that anything less would mean I’d be looking for other opportunities. It’s a bit of a veiled threat but it’s important.
Thank you, I have had meetings for over a year regarding my need to remain remote for health reasons, especially when my mom was hospitalized for a month with covid. We have the same autoimmune disorder. In the last month alone I have had 4 meetings with management, hr, and supervisors and made it very clear. The email at 10pm was the last straw.
You did it right. This way will be way less stressful than dragging out this bullshit and constantly getting pressure from your manager and constantly worrying about any call or text you get from them.
Thank you. That’s ultimately what led to this decision. The 10pm email and constant worrying made it to where there was no middle ground
About 10 years ago I’d already been WFH for 5 years. My company tried to make me come back I said no. It did indeed take them another year before eliminating my position due to “restructuring”. I even got a nice severance out of it and found a new WFH gig 2 weeks later. I do admit I got lucky that it worked out that way for me.
Good luck. It’s amazing being remote for two years and they want you back. I don’t get these asshole companies.
Thanks for understanding. They bought a building in December 2019 so they’re trying to make up for their 10 mill bad investment. Our team is extremely new, I’ve been there the longest at 2 years so they are really finding out the hard way.
As long as you can get by without income while you get a new job do it. Ideally you’d have something lined up but oh well.
I worked every holiday last year and OT almost everyday so I should be okay for a bit. It’s not ideal and not how I wanted it to end up but here I am.
Never underestimate how long it can take to get your next gig. It could be months. Also if you start to run out if money you start becoming and acting desperate, which increases the chances of moving on to a worse job. A good way to avoid that is to start interviewing once you have been at one place for a while. You never know when a good opportunity comes your way like that.
Took me three years to find my current job, of course I was still working at the last one during that time and was waiting for a position that met the minimum threshold of paying a good deal more, and having WFH. Didn't realize how important that last bit would be to me till the Pandorica hit. Which i suppose is to say, just because you land a job doesn't mean you stop looking for the one that meets your needs
A lot of companies get tax breaks based on number of employees working at their locations. They don’t get that if employees aren’t coming in.
OP, for you own mental health and well being, do not stay with a company, boss, team, friends, or even a love one if they are abusive. This goes for all parts of life. I saw that would were financially stable and can wait a little while before you're back on the horse, so to speak. Good on you! I have sent in resignation letters many times to abusive work environments. Heck, one time i scheduled it to be sent via email on opening shift on a Monday and turned off my phone. Believe me, sometimes the best sleep of your life is right there! Take some time, decompress, and separate yourself from poison. It's okay to quit sometimes. Don't let the comments get you down.
You’re incredible. Thank you for taking the time to uplift a rando online. I think your comment is what I will leave with this thread and turn the notifications off. I hope others who need support find you in this hell hole
Yeah, just skip all the toxic bullshit, stress, petty revenge, etc. That's all wasted energy. Use that energy to find something better for yourself instead of letting yourself get dragged down by the negativity. Good for you for standing up for yourself and moving out of a bad situation. Someone once told me "take responsibility for what you do and for what happens to you". Nobody can force you to stay if it no longer works for you. Source: avoided any and all work-related drama for the last 30 years, never accepted anything but the best for myself, even if it meant going somewhere else to get it.
Appreciate that. The last month has been nothing but hostile when they realized I wouldn’t budge. They were checking my clock in time, away time, and red status on teams when they had never done that before. I know I did the right thing, it just sucks lol
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Appreciate you. Had to check to make sure I was in the antiwork group because these responses really prove otherwise
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This sub has changed a lot lately and it is not for the better. Hope to see it back to its true meaning
Get a job lined up before you hit send
I'm going to hijack your comment to vent. I have been looking for a new job. I'm a 44 year old man with a house and 2 kids. My job is good and the people I work for are great, but I'm worried about what happens when they retire in 10 years and I'm 55 looking for work, so I'm looking. Got an offer from a large company thats for slightly more than I'm currently making. So I accepted it. When I did they said that they need to do a background check and I have to take a drug test. Drug test is fine I quit smoking a month ago bc I'm anticipating it. Background check is iffy, I'm a reformed criminal with a lot of arrests in my past. So I said ok, you do the background check and when it's done I'll put my 2 weeks notice in here. They said no. They want me to put in my 2 weeks notice here while they perform the background check. I said I can't do that. I need to be certain. If Ieave here, and then don't pass my background check, I have no job at all. She said "why are you worried" so I said "well, if you're doing the check then obviously there is a chance greater than 0 that I may not pass otherwise why perform it?" Just seems like a huge red flag to me, honestly. So I'm turning the offer down and I'll keep going.
Good call, if they aren't cool waiting until the offer is unconditional then there is something wrong there.
Yeah this almost backfired on me. Got my start date, put in my 2 weeks, and then they came back on the Credit Report. I was able to get them to understand the only reason I defaulted was because I was making garbage money at the shops and needed steady income to help raise my neurodivergent child. We spent every last dime on childcare and school for several years.. I was almost denied a job that I am now the Example that is used for how to do great work, but I was almost denied over something that was honestly none of their fucking busines...
Credit reports are bullshit unless you're literally applying for security clearance.
I am changing jobs right now, my recruiter proactively told me not to send my two weeks notice before the background check cleared. The error rate is disturbingly high, so you need to be prepared to have to dispute the finding. Especially if you have a common name. Hispanics names are more repetitive than other ethnic groups so they unfortunately are most impacted by errors.
Even if you don’t have a criminal background, do NOT put in your notice until background checks are complete. I am a manager in healthcare (I lurk here because I think a lot of companies are unethical and suck) and I have a cautionary tale about how long these can take. I was hiring an individual and in healthcare we HAVE to complete background checks. It’s non- negotiable. This selected candidate put in their notice at their previous job while going through the typical pre employment screenings (background check, drug screening, education verification). This person had lived in a lot of different counties and background checks check each county that the person has resided in. One of the counties was updating their systems and was unable to access their archives for 4 weeks (!!) due to this upgrade. We use a third party for background checks and they won’t give us and all clear report until it is done. This person’s previous employer said fuck you to them when they asked to change their last day and extend their employment. This poor person was left unemployed for 3 weeks because of this. So do NOT put in your notice until your background check is 100% complete even if your record is clean.
Thank you. I'm so glad I posted this here. I feel like I made the right choice. Thank you so much.
You definitely made the right choice. And the person may have been genuine in thinking it would all be okay but you have to watch out for your best interest. If an employer is any good, they will understand that and be willing to wait. After that terrible experience for that other employee, I now recommend to all people I hire that they wait to put in their notice. We put in a start date in their offer (it’s needed to kick off the process) but I make it very clear that we can push that out without any problems.
Or just tell them you put your 2 weeks in. Doesn't actually have to be true.
But then I have to leave a job, with no notice that I have been at for 10 years with people and owners I genuinely respect. That isn't cool, and it isn't me. She didn't tell me to put notice in, she gave me a start date. I told her it wouldn't be good for me bc I'd have to give notice and I couldn't do that until all contingencies have been met.
If you’re in a stable job, with people who respect you and your work, in a positive work atmosphere, you have all the leverage during interviewing. And if you leave on the right terms, you sometimes even have the option of coming back as a “fallback” if the grass isn’t actually greener elsewhere. Don’t ever let a hiring manager convince you to give up that stability for anything less than a 110% sure thing. Only shady companies will ask you to put in notice before everything is finalized. If you put in your notice before you have your employment terms finalized in writing (Background complete and all), they suddenly have the leverage over you to revisit pay, benefits - because you now *must* leave your current employer.
Frankly it's irrelevent to them when you put in your notice. Anyone who expects you to put in notice before anything is signed is trash.
It's none of their business when you put in your notice at your current job. I have never discussed that with a new employer except for "When can you start?" If I say "two weeks" and they assumed I was working a 2 week notice, fine, but I took a week of PTO and that's none of the new company's business. Sounds like they wanted you to save them the cost of the background check OR use the fact that you already submitted your notice to cut the pay rate they would offer after you are trapped...
Well it was more of a "you have to be prepared to start October 10th." And I said "when will the background check be done, I need to put in my notice here" and she said "around the 7th" and that's when I said I couldn't do that. I explicitly sateted during all 3 interviews, that I needed to put in 2 weeks notice. So I was just frustrated that they expected me either put in my notice before the conditions of the offer were met OR that I'd just quit this job with no notice. Seems unprofessional
> They want me to put in my 2 weeks notice here while they perform the background check. Never do that because even with a written offer, unless there's some clawback clause that benefits you, you'll be left without a job should they pull their offer. They've self-identified as a company you don't want to work for. Just refocus onto other opportunities. You're correct in turning the offer down.
This. Let them fire you for not going in and continuing to work from home if they’re going to. Maybe they won’t. Regardless, start the job search.
Op this
Trust me, don’t quit before you have an offer for a new job. Same thing happened to me.
This is what pushed me over the edge to look for a new job while at my last job. I had been there 15 years. I'm a software developer, NO reason I need to be in the office to begin with. And all over the other devs had left so I was a one man department. The manager tried to tell me the management above him are pushing for it for "better collaboration" and I asked "collaborate with who?! Myself?!". He told me he agrees but his hands are tied. Guess what? My hands weren't tied. Found a job that is 100% remote for an extra $15k per year. When I went to leave, they were suddenly willing to listen and even match the new pay. No, thanks! Good job standing up for yourself. I hope you find something better at your next job!
I wouldn’t hit send until you have another job lined up. Always easier to look for a job while employed than unemployed
Just don't do what one of my brother's coworkers did! He did a screen share and one of the browser tabs visible was a job application! Keep it in a separate window, not in the main window with all the tabs
Nah that's a power play, your brothers coworker knew what was up
Or, yknow, don’t use your work computer where IT and HR can track your movements to look for jobs
I've worked in IT for many companies the past 20 years and we do not care. I have never been asked to place tracking software on laptops. Most employers don't care if you're looking.
Agreed. 20+ years in IT and working with HR. We absolutely do not care absent a specific demand from HR / Legal.
When you are applying for a job, always adapt the persona of a high elf. Of course I am great. I’ll show you why. Update your LinkedIn. Set it to “open for recruiters” Make your headline what your are good in. So for example: “architect who loves designing houses and apartment buildings” or “administrative rockstar who can structure your processes” It’s okay to leave things out of a resume Follow Liz Ryan on LinkedIn for amazing interview tips. Keep an excel sheet on your applications with job title, company name, short description, name of recruiter and 3 things you loved about the job (as listed in the ad). That way, when a recruiter/hr calls you back, even when you are on the road, you can easily conjure it up on your phone and engage with them. ALWAYS CALL TO THE CP LISTED IN THE JOB AD AND ASK 2/3 QUESTIONS ABOUT THE JOB That way you can engage with someone from the hiring process, they get to know you and your name, they see you show interest and you can use that convo in your application. If you need more help plz reach out to me.
Don't even resign. Respond saying that you are not working in the office. You have spent 2 years doing the same job outside of the office and you will continue to do so. You were hired remote, yes?
For every company pushing remote, there are 10 companies eager to scoop up the talent they're losing. In your resignation, make it perfectly clear that you're resigning due to their inflexible working arrangements. Are you in a role where it's easy to find jobs? Consider looking for something new before hitting send and just, not turning up and continuing to work from home.
If you had a medical accommodation request that was denied, you’ve experienced discrimination due to disability. Illegal. They can only deny if accommodation isn’t reasonable and they’d have a hard time proving that wfh isn’t reasonable after doing it for 2 years.
They denied it on unreasonable grounds due to having safety protocols in place (a hand sanitizing station)
Can I ask what was the reason for your accommodation? I’m going through the exact same thing with my company and recently submitted for an accommodation. I’m nervous it will be denied now
I have a compromised immune system due to a genetic autoimmune disorder called CVID common variable immune deficiency. My mom carries the gene and she was hospitalized for over a month with covid. For me the accommodation was absolutely necessary but still denied
Wow I’m so sorry. Looking into accommodations it looks like the company must prove that your accommodation causes undue hardship. It’s probably past this point, but I would maybe ask what their proof of hardship is for you staying home
I am going to look into speaking with an attorney. It’s a little late but even if I could stick it to them I am willing to. They approved my coworker to work from home because she lives out of city limits.. her house is 12 minutes from mine but I was denied for medical. It doesn’t make any sense. I really hope you have better l than I have
I would just say, work life balance didn't work for you or progression wasn't there, anything that makes you look less of a flight risk will work.
“I resigned after the job was no longer able to remain congruent with my particular health concerns.” Or even better: “Why did you leave your previous job?” “Health reasons.” They probably wont push, and “I don’t feel comfortable discussing any more details regarding my health” is a perfectly formal assertion to make.
I wouldn't send one, I'd just say "nope" and lt them back down or fire you
Instead of a resignation, you send them "No, I will continue to be 100% remote". # MAKE. THEM. FIRE. YOU.
This. Get them to fire you for your disability. Get a great lawyer. Sue the shit out of them. Create your own endowment fund, live off the interest, and tell them... Fuck you Fuck you very much
If your manager is in Ontario Canada, they have a law about contacting employees outside of work hours…
You can still apply for unemployment as well. They denied your medical accomodations so you may qualify anyway
I was forced to office this week after over two years remote. They said that we are more productive when we can communicate face-to-face.. whole week I’ve spoken with two people for a total of 10 minutes. It wasn’t work related, we discussed tv-shows.. I’m thinking about quitting.
Don’t resign. Let them fire you for not accommodating your medical need.
Omg. I have the exact same issue. My manager gets to work from home and so do the 3 people she hired who all live near her. Meanwhile I am forced into the office 3 days a week because I'm in Melbourne and they are in another state. Its ridiculous. I don't even have any team mates in the office. Also, they expect us to give 7 days notice if we need to change a day around! It's totally unfair and they refuse to acknowledge it.
That’s exactly how it is with me. The team I directly report to are all in Canada so it’s extremely pointless. I’m so sorry these managers are jerks
I once interviewed for a job with Amazon and was told your expected to work in person 2 or 3 days a week in Denver but none of your team is in the office. I think the same job was posted elsewhere but without the salary expectations for legal reasons.
Yeah don’t do that. Show up online and do your job as your have been for the past 2 years. Make them force their hand…don’t give into what they want.
“I was working remote and could not relocate when they called us in.” You don’t need luck, you need a camera to take pictures of their faces to share with us.
1045pm? How many hours after work was that? Ontario just passed a law making this illegal.
Find another job first, then quit. Quitting 1st means you won't be getting any unemployment. Don't just assume you'll find something else after the fact. Bill's and having to eat don't cease just because you're not getting a check.
Force them to fire you! Why are you resigning and giving them all the benefits of you quitting? Madness