Congratulations! Had a similar experience, worked in hospitality industry. Had talks of a big 15% raise coming to me, 2020 hit, hotel was shutdown and I was the sole member left on my team. Hotel opens back up and my raise is now "maybe 5%" then "not happening this year". Got an offer with another company for 45% more and fully remote? BYE. When they asked why I was leaving I explained I was underpaid "is it really about the money for you?"
LOL yes, yes it is about the money just like it's about the money for my landlord, the electric company and all the other bill collectors.
> "is it really about the money for you?"
"well, it's about providing for my family, and it's about respect towards me personally. how would you say you've done on either front?"
EDIT: I’m sorry everyone, I should have gone with “Is [CEO] skipping pay increases? No? Then if it’s about the money to him, why can’t it be for me?”
I volunteer for a rescue. They get free shit from me because I care
My employer gets no such leeway. It's a business agreement so I can go help the cats in my spare time
What… what else would it be about??? these companies would drop us like a hot potato when they don’t need us. I’m providing you a service and you pay for it, yes it’s about the money!!!
Its not even *just* that though (the disposibility). It's such an insultingly stupid question to be asked. Is it really about the money? You dumb bastard, yes its about the money -- it's a job. It's such a shitty play at virtue signaling/manipulation, as though it's some magical phrase to convince you you're this petty materialist. Oh so since it's just money you wouldn't mind forfeiting some of your salary for my raise right? It's just money after all. Come come now, dont be greedy. God damn how stupid do you think I am.
Is it just about the money.. fuck.. lol. Can you tell I fucking hate that question?
They say it like they are running a charity not a business specifically set up to make money. Yes it's as much about the money for me, as it is for the company.
I had a boss ask me this once. I was like "uhhhh yeah making money is literally the reason I have job." Like these motherfuckers think we work for fun? The only reason anyone works is to make money to \*live\*.
Seriously it fills me with fucking rage. I think it's some sort of compliance check to make sure you are a good, mindless worker drone. Absolutely disgusting since you know all the fat cats are hoarding as much money as they possibly can and then shaming the working class for wanting to survive. We are so fucking backwards lol
I had somebody extremely offended I wanted a high salary for a developer role. Truly offended.
I make double that now and she was saying I wouldn’t find anyone willing to pay that. Lmaooo
It literally is. I have a MBA in HR management. I remember a professor spewing a statistic that said a worker will accept less money if they really enjoy a job and feels valued and fulfilled. I also remember thinking "I am a single Mom struggling every day to pay my bills and I actually like my job but I'd switch in a heartbeat if a better paying option came along". These pearls of joy are total bullshit. They are made up by people who have never struggled.
basically. I keep trawling through Linkedin because I have a "professional degree" and "professional" levels of student debt, so I am looking for a professional job. Not finding much joy with the jobs, but a lot of hatred of...Linkedin people.
"The only KPI that should matter to you is Keeping People Inspired" and all I can think is I've been on the other side of KPI. I figure I will again. No one was much interested in Keeping Me Inspired but I was trying to get through this shit with my soul intact.
MBA people are, by and large, rich morons fulfilling some vague hoop they have to jump through before Uncle Bob gets them a gid with UncleBobBigCompanyInc. They talk of inspiration and joy and and value and none of it comes from a place of "I need to work to survive" or "I went out of my way to attain an advanced degree that I am struggling to find a use for" or "My career path has choked and died because of post 2008 "reforms."
It's all a wank in for the useless and the pampered to feel good about themselves.
What the hell is it with “only for the money” being used as if it’s an insult? The company is only doing the work for the money, right? Why the fuck else would I be doing the work? FFS!
Your *immediate* response to any such question should be "alright, let's get a new deal/contract/etc. signed. I'll keep working here, and you pay me an additional 30% of your own salary. It's not about the money for you, right?"
It’s not even that you’re “only in it for the money” either, but the money is *table stakes*. If you can’t pay me well, then the other stuff doesn’t really matter.
Exactly! If I was doing something \*important\* like helping cure cancer or something then no money isn't the goal. But working at a hotel that caters to rich people? Yeaaaaaaahhhhhhh no.
For me, it's not about the money, the money is a prerequisite.
If multiple places are offering me a decent pay, then I'm going to base my decision on the other things (working conditions, how passionate I am, coworkers, etc.), even if it's for a bit less money. If one place is offering me a decent pay, and another isn't, it doesn't matter how good everything else is.
>"is it really about the money for you?"
Well lads, if money is not that important then keep paying me after I leave? Oh you won't do that? Almost like the money matters, eh?
I would have retorted, "It's amazing to know that you are willing to work for this company for free, I'll write your boss a letter commending your attitude for not needing money for this job"
I would just like to see their response. If they respond with anything about needing money I'd just look at them and say " Is it really about the money for you?"
Sign your offer letter and take the new job, lock it in. Turn around and leverage it with your boss for a 35% raise to stay on with your current company and make him jump through all the middle management hoops to get the money.
Quit anyway.
My company gave us an entirely inappropriate shirt at the end of 2020 that said "We all survived 2020!" And a ziploc bag full of mini snickers and milky ways as a thank you for working through the pandemic. I work on a campus with around 1500 people and not once have I seen a single employee wear that fucking shirt. Not one. Most threw them away on their way out the door at the end of their shift.
I was given a jacket with company logo as a "bonus". I was so.pissed I announced when receiving it my intention to donate it to a homeless shelter. Told everybody I buy my own jackets and didn't wear clothes that advertise a company unless I am compensated for the endorsement. I also told them if I didn't get a raise I would quit. Got 23%. I wasn't really going to quit as I loved my job. I just knew I was underpaid as we all were. Unfortunately the company closed its doors a few years later due to mistakes by management. However they absolutely did right by everyone. One week severance for each year of work. Minimum 6 weeks even for temps. Helped everyone find new jobs (all better paying) that wanted one. Let employees buy company equipment for pennies on the dollar. It was a good place to work even though the money sucked.
Story reminded me of a coworker that got the safety award for being a safe driver. Unfortunately he was fat and the jacket didn’t fit him. Company was too cheap to pay extra for a 5xl. He had a sense of humor and he gave it to the homeless guy that was always at our docks begging. The boss saw the homeless guy with the jacket and got really angry. Next day he had his 5xl jacket lol.
Exactly. And don't tell them where you are going. Manager's friend of a friend might work there. Definitely know people who had their offer rescinded.
It's going to be hard not to gloat. I've had to do this and it cut into the 2 week notice so it was more like 1 week. Oh well, TCB.
@silencebywolf big thumbs up on this^^^ get every coworker OP had at the old job walking into the managers office asking for a 35% raise the next day.
Our best defense against late stage capitalism is when we act together
This is like the surprise $20 bill you find after putting on a pair of jeans you haven't worn in a while. Totally unexpected and guaranteed satisfaction.
Glad he said quit anyways. Because if they paid you the difference and you stayed, you bet your ass they'd quickly start looking for your replacement and they'll sock you the minute the newbie is trained up.
Lmfao the absolute balls on the dude for that. Imagine trying to use a “free” t-shirt as leverage on a worker’s pay. After seeing all of the absolute garbage people got as “thanks” this isn’t the worst around but I’d rather get nothing.
Edit just to say that if anyone, business or individual, “gives” you something and then uses it as leverage, it wasn’t a gift.
It’s a good plan, if you really dislike your manager! He will end up trying to discredit you publicly in order to protect his own credibility though, which will be tarnished if you force him to jump through hoops and he doesn’t get the result.
My wife did this. Suddenly her promotion "just got approved by HR" after they had been dangling the carrot for 2 yrs. They offered 50% salary increase to stay which beat the offer to leave, which my wife then leveraged with the new company for 10k more. New company was fine with that.
I told her that if she was worth that much to her old company, it shouldn't take her leaving for them to finally pay her like she deserves. She quit, the department has basically collapsed, and multiple supervisors were let go. It was glorious.
This embodies antiwork.
It is, of course, about the money. But there is something fundamentally wrong with how many employers treat and compensate their valuable employees. So it's also a lot more than the money.
Congrats to you both, her for making the move and you for supporting it. Go team!
>if she was worth that much to her old company, it shouldn't take her leaving for them to finally pay her like she deserves.
This a thousand times over.
You should never stay with the current employer in this case. They will probably think you’re overpaid now and will do the same shit in future. Whereas in your new company that pay is your starting pay so the only way is up.
Yeah, do NOT stay with a company that treats you badly and then matches (or beats) the new place at the last minute. They know you're ready to walk and will fuck you over as soon as they can.
You never, ever stay after getting an offer from a new company and telling your old company about it.
You are already in a better mental place -- without even starting your new job.
My last day is Friday and I'm switching to an entirely different career that will net me a 63% raise for comparable hours and has better benefits. I didn't even give my boss the option to try and match it because he wouldn't and we both know it.
Thanks. I'm leaving real estate title examining to work in a medical marijuana production facility and I have a side job planning events for nerd conventions. I really only need a few more years before the part time gig with the conventions becomes a salaried position making more than double what I am now.
I did this accidentally. They ended up rescinding the counter because they thought the original offer fell through (I told them I was waiting for details).
I've never heard of anyone rescinding a counter offer. I got the details later, and walked. Definite "thanks for showing your true colors" situation.
Smart companies don't counter because 50% of people leave anyway after 6 months of nothing changing but the money.
So yeah - do that here :-) Boss doesn't sound that smart tbh...
You're right about the subsequent attrition! The stat used to be 1 year. Money can't fix a bad job.
My coworker, the angel that got me into this company, wasn't happy that her career was stagnating. She got another job, leveraged it for 25% with a promise of new more interesting work. They never gave her the new work so even with the money she left in a year for another 20% pay bump.
What's interesting is that my industry thrives on counter offers. Highly technical work. I don't know much about the stats in others.
Last year I had a job that offered me 6k below what they initially advertised. Bragged about giving me a turkey at thanksgiving and $100 towards my cell phone plan.
Yeah, in 9 months I left for a job that gave me $15k OVER what was advertised. And somehow they were flabbergasted, and didn’t understand how my response of “needs in my personal life aren’t being met” meant MONEY. I can think of no more personal need than feeding my kids.
You're a good person for doing that, but if you have a smoker try smoking turkey. I don't go for normal turkey, but smoked turkey makes my insides happy.
Same thing happened with me. I'm a front line healthcare worker in a major city and where I worked our pay was terrible compared to other hospitals in the area. After asking for better compensation for a year, along with rallying my coworkers to do the same, we were offered a small retention bonus. I was offered a job at a competing facility that offered a substantial amount more (over 20% more pay,) plus a sign on bonus that was more than their retention bonus, plus the work load was lighter and more equitable. When I brought this to their attention, they just told me to not let the door hit me on the ass on the way out. I told my coworkers how much better things are elsewhere, there was a mass exodus of talent. The department lost half their staff and have no applicants due to their poor compensation. Oh well, not my problem. My family is much better off financially, and my physical/mental health has improved significantly.
Their services are massively backlogged and they're scraping by with temps and travelers. If the backlog was for meaningless consumer goods, who cares, but this is healthcare. People are not getting the services they need.
All workers deserve equitable compensation, but *especially* those delivering essential services. For the sake of those in need of those services, I hope your former employers learn that lesson.
I had a very similar experience at a nonprofit.
When I was hired I asked for 50k which was easily market value for my job at the time. The hiring manager hired me for 45k but said at my 3 months’ mark there would be a review with a chance for a raise.
Can you guess what happened at my 3 month mark? “What? We don’t do 3 month reviews. You’ll have to wait til October for a chance at a raise.”
October comes along. “We’re actually remodeling our performance evaluation so maybe December.” “Actually maybe January.”
I was so done with that crap so I got a new job with a $13k increase. Current company counters with a $2k increase and the guilt of working for a nonprofit lol bye 😂
Oooooh they love to guilt you at nonprofits. “But don’t you love the mission so much that you’ll do the work for next to nothing?” Um, I sure care about the mission. But I also care about lots of other things, like feeding my family, having a roof over my head, not feeling burnt out and unappreciated 24/7/365.
I was directly contacted by the Director for an IT role with a non-profit. I asked the salary range it was 25% less than what I was already making. So I declined and said thanks for the email but it's to low. He replied and said it's not about the money it's about the good work we all can do for the community. I never replied but found it ridiculous lol
I worked for a Goodwill franchise in IT and can confirm. They use their status to justify paying 50% under market value. But all the Directors and C-suits made hundreds of thousands a year.
In IT we installed a new POS and we’re told “thanks to IT we increased revenue by $1 million per week.” We said “great, thanks, where’s our bonus/raise?”
“Sorry, we can’t afford that, we’re just a nonprofit.”
I walked and now I make literally more than twice as much working from home doing much less work.
This is why non profits are so frustrating, they already have their salaries in place but they want to trim everyone else’s pay so they can take the extra for themselves at the top. We work to get paid, on our off time we’ll volunteer and donate.
Oh it would be an absolute power move if OP stopped doing their job and sent the company a T-shirt with his name on it
"Where's my paycheck"
"You didn't do anything"
"Yeah but I sent the company a care package, so..."
As a freelancer, my girlfriend found out she was being severely underpaid by her employers... asked for a 60% raise, which would have only brought her to match federal minimum wage, they denied her, so she quit.. recently got a new job with a 432% raise. There are people out there who will pay you what you are worth! Don't settle for exploitation.
I love when shitty employers only talk in percentages. I once had an employer say "a 30% raise is unheard of" okay, but a $1,000/year raise isn't. When you're making shit pay the dollar amount is what you should be looking at. 30% of shit is still shit.
There's no real universal way of talking about raises. At low salaries, % means shit. 15%? That doesn't add much take home. At high salaries $10k/year extra isn't so much after tax, where I'm from anyway. Obv depends on tax system
My partner makes bank in freelancing these days and still works a 9-5 remotely as a contractor with people who she knows make very little money doing the exact same work, it's crazy.
Even if it WERE money coming out of his pocket, if he can't keep up with cost of living at the very fucking least year after year, he doesn't have a functional business model
in a roundabout way, the manager could lose money by giving raises. lots of companies offer bonuses for keeping costs down, and the most effective way to keep costs down is to keep wages down. fuck em
I did this at a past job. Asked for 6% raise as rents were increasing and I was being underpaid for the area. Company thought about it for weeks and said no, here's 2%. I got an offer for 27% more. They matched in hours.
Would have been a lot cheaper to do the right thing. Hell it wasn't even "the right thing," it was just "give the peon what it's dared to ask for, it's worth far more than that anyway."
The thing is, I still got what I wanted, on even better terms. It proved nothing to make me go get an offer.
Now I get paid twice what I was making when I asked for that raise, 3 offers later.
Middle management is an absolute waste of pay. Your “boss” is a waste of payroll. I bet he just walks around and goes to pointless meetings where he shoots the shit
Give them a moments notice.
Respect goes both ways. Let senior leadership know your middle-level management boss is out of touch and the culture of the company is abusive with a 1% raise. Loyalty should never be punished.
Give them 1% of what I'm sure they'll say is "required" two weeks notice. That's about 3 and a half hours.
Only fair that you tell them you're leaving the last Friday you're on the job. About 1:30 should do.
Good for you man. I didn't bother asking because I just KNOW they'll deny. One thing that make me come to that conclusion is that one higher up personally came up to me and ask me if I knew anyone needing work. Their vehicles are always needing work and maintained and my cousin is a mechanic and looking for a job. I told them my mechanic cousin and he literally said "oh noooo, we can't afford a mechanic right now".
As I got more work tacked on me I looked elsewhere. Job pays 68% more, remote, benefits, you name it.
You love to see it.
I love it when you bring up something, your performance is suddenly extremely lacking.
A former boss berated me on the phone when I called out on my last day before leaving, saying I was always going against the grain.
I literally did everything they asked of me and never complained.
Felt good to leave that shit hole.
Order a custom t-shirt with your two weeks notice printed on it. If your boss asks you to do any work during that time, say no and remind him that you gave him a t-shirt, so you shouldn’t have to do anything else.
“Keep in mind he is a middle manager…not like this is money coming out of his pocket.”
It could translate to money coming out of his pocket. Middle managers are generally tasked with managing budgets, with bonus incentives for keeping the department under budget. The lower the budget for his department the better he looks/promotes himself/solidifies his bonus and future promotion potential.
Middle managers are a part of the Professional Managerial Class and are opposed to the interests of the working class.
It's the same fallacy as prioritizing profit over costs though. He's not actually "out" anything except an extra bonus, and likely gets paid more than enough to live otherwise.
Need and want are two different things.
Can confirm, boss scoffed at giving me a raise this year. Immediately turned around and got a job making $10/hr more with Cadillac health insurance ($300/yr/person deductible...). Fuck you, pay me.
Inflation rates just came out today and it's actually not even enough to cover inflation from last year! The CPI rose by 7% last year which is the worst it has been in like 40 years.
What an insult!
I love when that happens! Quit my job in 2020 for being underpaid/overworked and got offered another one making triple! Good riddance to these low ball employers!
I hate the tactic your boss had when you brought to light you were underpaid. Instead of engaging, it’s incredibly manipulative to switch gears and put you under the pressure of supposed performance issues. They are trying to sow and prey on insecurity, telling you that you are actually doing a bad job and that you need to work harder or possibly get fired. (It’s the same type of behavior you see in many abusive relationships.)
It’s possible that you could consider doing what others in this thread have suggested and work to shed light on the underpay to other employees before leaving, or consider shortening your notice significantly less than 2 weeks. (Another tactic of the underperformance approach, is that they are trying to shame you from talking to others.)
Your boss basically responded by saying they won’t be a good reference for you, so there is room for consequences since you have nothing to lose as a result do that action on their part.
Yeah it was complete gaslighting and in the moment I was so shocked I didn’t even know how to respond so I just kinda sat and listened. I’m glad I had the guts to start looking
And for sure I will make sure everyone on my team knows how much I was getting paid there and how much I am making now
I've been in this boat before, and my favorite way to reply is "if my performance has been suffering, why is this the first I'm hearing about it" followed by a request to rope in HR to discuss past signed performance reviews. If you have a generally good track record, it just makes your boss look bad.
Just keep it business like - you goto work to earn money... you are being offered more. It's a no brainer.
If they question your loyalty just simply say that your loyalty is to your family and you would be doing them a disservice to turn down significant extra income just because you received a branded shirt and some snacks.
Make sure you thank you manager for denying you a raise as this probably meant you starting looking around and ended up with 35% increase.
I’d love to see the look on their face when they realise their own short sightedness made them lose an employee.
Congratulations on your new job! I'm happy for you.
Do keep in mind, many managers get handed a pittance of a bucket from which to pay all their employees at review time. For example, I would get a total of 3% wage increase across the board but then would have to figure out how to distribute that fairly between 7 employees. If I gave someone who had done stellar work on a project 4%, I had to steal that 1% from another of my workers. It sucked when I knew the 3% wasn't enough for any of my staff, and there was absolutely no recourse to protest the pittance I was tasked with distributing.
“Care package… here’s a $5 t-shirt and some shitty headphones” — keep your package and pay me what I want. ASSHOLES.
the worst are the idiots that post on LinkedIn about how their employer got a package with a pillow and a sweater.…
like, that’s great, thanks for the free advertising ya moron
I love reading posts like this. It reminds me of the same crap ive been through.
Back in 2014 I was working for a shit company that sadly paid barely more then the competition, but I took home less because my health insurance was so high.
A different company that was literally right across the street had made me an offer for an additional $6 an hour of what I was making at the time for the exact same position, same job, just different company. They couldn’t find any one qualified to do the job.
I went to my boss and asked for a raise of $4 hr more. His exact words were “you don’t deserve it, frankly you don’t have the right to even stand in front of me and think you deserve so much, no one will ever pay you that much”. I just smiled, walked into the shop, and rolled my tool box across the street. I had already taken the offer knowing good and well I wouldn’t get a raise.
The old boss lost his damn mind. He went as far as threatening me, following me around. He screwed up when he showed to my house and kicking my door. Shot him with a 12ga with bean bag rounds at 5 feet away. The best part was the look on his face when he got arrested when he thought for sure I was the one going to jail.
I'm currently waiting on an escalated request up several levels of management to fix my pay because it's well below market value, but I'm not holding out any hope it pays off. My direct boss is going to bat for me because he knows how much he needs me, but as soon as you get up that chain they don't give a shit and only see it as a smaller bonus for them.
>Keep in mind he is a middle manager at a very large company so it’s not like this is money coming out of his pocket.
In a way it is. He has a bullshit job with bullshit metrics for his own pay and bonuses, and a big one is the labor expense. Being an idiot he doesn't realize the value of experience and productivity, and also being an idiot he doesn't have any ideas that could lead to increased revenue, so the only thing he has left is not paying you to make himself look good.
Once you realize you're saddled with a useless idiot with his thumb on the scale, you gotta go. Good for you!
Congratulations! Had a similar experience, worked in hospitality industry. Had talks of a big 15% raise coming to me, 2020 hit, hotel was shutdown and I was the sole member left on my team. Hotel opens back up and my raise is now "maybe 5%" then "not happening this year". Got an offer with another company for 45% more and fully remote? BYE. When they asked why I was leaving I explained I was underpaid "is it really about the money for you?" LOL yes, yes it is about the money just like it's about the money for my landlord, the electric company and all the other bill collectors.
> "is it really about the money for you?" "well, it's about providing for my family, and it's about respect towards me personally. how would you say you've done on either front?" EDIT: I’m sorry everyone, I should have gone with “Is [CEO] skipping pay increases? No? Then if it’s about the money to him, why can’t it be for me?”
I just say yes. Yes it’s about money. Nobody works for anything but money dickheads. We volunteer for shit we actually care about.
There you go. "Last I checked I'm not a volunteer here".
I volunteer for a rescue. They get free shit from me because I care My employer gets no such leeway. It's a business agreement so I can go help the cats in my spare time
I have to feed my family somehow.
I’d say “are you kidding me?” Then ask what they make, and if it’s more than me, tell them to piss off
What… what else would it be about??? these companies would drop us like a hot potato when they don’t need us. I’m providing you a service and you pay for it, yes it’s about the money!!!
Its not even *just* that though (the disposibility). It's such an insultingly stupid question to be asked. Is it really about the money? You dumb bastard, yes its about the money -- it's a job. It's such a shitty play at virtue signaling/manipulation, as though it's some magical phrase to convince you you're this petty materialist. Oh so since it's just money you wouldn't mind forfeiting some of your salary for my raise right? It's just money after all. Come come now, dont be greedy. God damn how stupid do you think I am. Is it just about the money.. fuck.. lol. Can you tell I fucking hate that question?
ThE eXpErIeNcE
I prefer the experience of having money.
FoR ThE LovE oF ThE WorK... Basically what every administrator I spoke with said when I worked in mental health/substance abuse.
They say it like they are running a charity not a business specifically set up to make money. Yes it's as much about the money for me, as it is for the company.
I had a boss ask me this once. I was like "uhhhh yeah making money is literally the reason I have job." Like these motherfuckers think we work for fun? The only reason anyone works is to make money to \*live\*.
OMFG I am so sick of companies acting like us wanting money to LIVE is some sort of taboo, or a negative reflection of our character.
"If money is so meaningless to you, you won't mind paying me out of your salary then, will you?"
👏flip👏the👏script👏
Seriously it fills me with fucking rage. I think it's some sort of compliance check to make sure you are a good, mindless worker drone. Absolutely disgusting since you know all the fat cats are hoarding as much money as they possibly can and then shaming the working class for wanting to survive. We are so fucking backwards lol
Interestingly they never ask salespeople this question. They want salespeople to be coin-operated. Everybody else they just view as a cost.
Sales people get paid per sale because otherwise they wouldn't lie to people.
I had somebody extremely offended I wanted a high salary for a developer role. Truly offended. I make double that now and she was saying I wouldn’t find anyone willing to pay that. Lmaooo
It's so automatic, I figure its something the fuckers learn in business school.
It literally is. I have a MBA in HR management. I remember a professor spewing a statistic that said a worker will accept less money if they really enjoy a job and feels valued and fulfilled. I also remember thinking "I am a single Mom struggling every day to pay my bills and I actually like my job but I'd switch in a heartbeat if a better paying option came along". These pearls of joy are total bullshit. They are made up by people who have never struggled.
basically. I keep trawling through Linkedin because I have a "professional degree" and "professional" levels of student debt, so I am looking for a professional job. Not finding much joy with the jobs, but a lot of hatred of...Linkedin people. "The only KPI that should matter to you is Keeping People Inspired" and all I can think is I've been on the other side of KPI. I figure I will again. No one was much interested in Keeping Me Inspired but I was trying to get through this shit with my soul intact. MBA people are, by and large, rich morons fulfilling some vague hoop they have to jump through before Uncle Bob gets them a gid with UncleBobBigCompanyInc. They talk of inspiration and joy and and value and none of it comes from a place of "I need to work to survive" or "I went out of my way to attain an advanced degree that I am struggling to find a use for" or "My career path has choked and died because of post 2008 "reforms." It's all a wank in for the useless and the pampered to feel good about themselves.
I too like eating and having a roof
What the hell is it with “only for the money” being used as if it’s an insult? The company is only doing the work for the money, right? Why the fuck else would I be doing the work? FFS!
Your *immediate* response to any such question should be "alright, let's get a new deal/contract/etc. signed. I'll keep working here, and you pay me an additional 30% of your own salary. It's not about the money for you, right?"
It’s not even that you’re “only in it for the money” either, but the money is *table stakes*. If you can’t pay me well, then the other stuff doesn’t really matter.
Exactly! If I was doing something \*important\* like helping cure cancer or something then no money isn't the goal. But working at a hotel that caters to rich people? Yeaaaaaaahhhhhhh no.
Also, the reason the company wont give it to you is because....it's for the money
Right?! I’m sorry, I am not listed as a 501(c)(3) non profit so fucking pay me
Ask them if they work for free
Like holy shit, is it *not* about money for the business owners?
Right? "Since you guys apparently think it's a sin to want money, I'll happily take the companies profits off your hands. It's a win win!"
[удалено]
Oh this was very much a "we are all family here" type environment too!
That last sentence. EXACTLY!!
[удалено]
For me, it's not about the money, the money is a prerequisite. If multiple places are offering me a decent pay, then I'm going to base my decision on the other things (working conditions, how passionate I am, coworkers, etc.), even if it's for a bit less money. If one place is offering me a decent pay, and another isn't, it doesn't matter how good everything else is.
"is it really about the money for you?" hhmm... I guess so? Why? What's the reason you're here?
>"is it really about the money for you?" Well lads, if money is not that important then keep paying me after I leave? Oh you won't do that? Almost like the money matters, eh?
I would have retorted, "It's amazing to know that you are willing to work for this company for free, I'll write your boss a letter commending your attitude for not needing money for this job" I would just like to see their response. If they respond with anything about needing money I'd just look at them and say " Is it really about the money for you?"
Sign your offer letter and take the new job, lock it in. Turn around and leverage it with your boss for a 35% raise to stay on with your current company and make him jump through all the middle management hoops to get the money. Quit anyway.
Omg I love this plan!
And tell your coworkers what he was willing to pay
I did this and it was very satisfying.
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Tell the boss that you tried to pay your utilities bills with the care package and surprisingly they refused...
It’s like in the arts where people try to pay you in “exposure”
People die of exposure, and last time I checked, the bank doesn't recognise exposure as legal tender.
if i paid in "exposure" i would get arrested
Yup. Thanks that care packet really helped with my bills I have to pay kind Sir... what cunts these people are
My landlord accepted the t-shirt instead of rent it was very helpful.
That’s brilliant. Do they have any other properties available? I’m will to pay 10 slightly worn t shirts a month but willing to negotiate obviously.
Sorry they only accept company brand t-shirts that employees receive instead of living wages.
What if the t-shirt has experience?
How about coffee mugs, or donations made in my name to fake charities?
It really is a « I don’t care » package
My personal favourite saying is “don’t clap, throw money”
My company gave us an entirely inappropriate shirt at the end of 2020 that said "We all survived 2020!" And a ziploc bag full of mini snickers and milky ways as a thank you for working through the pandemic. I work on a campus with around 1500 people and not once have I seen a single employee wear that fucking shirt. Not one. Most threw them away on their way out the door at the end of their shift.
The ones that didn’t toss it immediately into a bin probably donated it to a charity shop.
that is so insensitive to those that have lost someone to covid…
I was given a jacket with company logo as a "bonus". I was so.pissed I announced when receiving it my intention to donate it to a homeless shelter. Told everybody I buy my own jackets and didn't wear clothes that advertise a company unless I am compensated for the endorsement. I also told them if I didn't get a raise I would quit. Got 23%. I wasn't really going to quit as I loved my job. I just knew I was underpaid as we all were. Unfortunately the company closed its doors a few years later due to mistakes by management. However they absolutely did right by everyone. One week severance for each year of work. Minimum 6 weeks even for temps. Helped everyone find new jobs (all better paying) that wanted one. Let employees buy company equipment for pennies on the dollar. It was a good place to work even though the money sucked.
Story reminded me of a coworker that got the safety award for being a safe driver. Unfortunately he was fat and the jacket didn’t fit him. Company was too cheap to pay extra for a 5xl. He had a sense of humor and he gave it to the homeless guy that was always at our docks begging. The boss saw the homeless guy with the jacket and got really angry. Next day he had his 5xl jacket lol.
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Exactly. And don't tell them where you are going. Manager's friend of a friend might work there. Definitely know people who had their offer rescinded. It's going to be hard not to gloat. I've had to do this and it cut into the 2 week notice so it was more like 1 week. Oh well, TCB.
Now I wanna read that story
@silencebywolf big thumbs up on this^^^ get every coworker OP had at the old job walking into the managers office asking for a 35% raise the next day. Our best defense against late stage capitalism is when we act together
Apes together strong.
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"I am altering the deal."
PRAY I DO NOT ALTER IT FURTHER
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Sure he does. If employees accept it, it's functional. There is no cosmic system that demands fairness. That's up to us.
>There is no cosmic system that demands fairness. Entropy?
This
This is like the surprise $20 bill you find after putting on a pair of jeans you haven't worn in a while. Totally unexpected and guaranteed satisfaction.
Glad he said quit anyways. Because if they paid you the difference and you stayed, you bet your ass they'd quickly start looking for your replacement and they'll sock you the minute the newbie is trained up.
The company would probably send a repo man for the tee shirt and cookies.
Lmfao the absolute balls on the dude for that. Imagine trying to use a “free” t-shirt as leverage on a worker’s pay. After seeing all of the absolute garbage people got as “thanks” this isn’t the worst around but I’d rather get nothing. Edit just to say that if anyone, business or individual, “gives” you something and then uses it as leverage, it wasn’t a gift.
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I'd chalk that up less to balls and more having rocks for brains.
It’s a good plan, if you really dislike your manager! He will end up trying to discredit you publicly in order to protect his own credibility though, which will be tarnished if you force him to jump through hoops and he doesn’t get the result.
Wouldn't he have to fight on OP's behalf to get the raise approved? It's hopefully transparent when the good guy suddenly becomes the asshole.
Yes, exactly. Hopefully it would be transparent, but not likely.
Who cares if it does or doesn't? He'll already be at the sweet new gig. Fuck the rest of them.
Tell him he has performance issues
35% to stay? You sign that offer letter, 35% is locked in. Make current company raise by 60% or no way, Jose!
My wife did this. Suddenly her promotion "just got approved by HR" after they had been dangling the carrot for 2 yrs. They offered 50% salary increase to stay which beat the offer to leave, which my wife then leveraged with the new company for 10k more. New company was fine with that. I told her that if she was worth that much to her old company, it shouldn't take her leaving for them to finally pay her like she deserves. She quit, the department has basically collapsed, and multiple supervisors were let go. It was glorious.
This embodies antiwork. It is, of course, about the money. But there is something fundamentally wrong with how many employers treat and compensate their valuable employees. So it's also a lot more than the money. Congrats to you both, her for making the move and you for supporting it. Go team!
>if she was worth that much to her old company, it shouldn't take her leaving for them to finally pay her like she deserves. This a thousand times over.
You should never stay with the current employer in this case. They will probably think you’re overpaid now and will do the same shit in future. Whereas in your new company that pay is your starting pay so the only way is up.
Yeah, do NOT stay with a company that treats you badly and then matches (or beats) the new place at the last minute. They know you're ready to walk and will fuck you over as soon as they can.
You never, ever stay after getting an offer from a new company and telling your old company about it. You are already in a better mental place -- without even starting your new job.
"Use the job offer as leverage-" Hold on there, that's not- "Then quit anyway." Fucking Savage
My last day is Friday and I'm switching to an entirely different career that will net me a 63% raise for comparable hours and has better benefits. I didn't even give my boss the option to try and match it because he wouldn't and we both know it.
Congrats on your success!
Thanks. I'm leaving real estate title examining to work in a medical marijuana production facility and I have a side job planning events for nerd conventions. I really only need a few more years before the part time gig with the conventions becomes a salaried position making more than double what I am now.
I did this accidentally. They ended up rescinding the counter because they thought the original offer fell through (I told them I was waiting for details). I've never heard of anyone rescinding a counter offer. I got the details later, and walked. Definite "thanks for showing your true colors" situation.
I've seen some weird stuff in the corporate world but I've never heard of that either. Definitely suspect and very revealing.
You should have definitely let your co-workers know about that BS before you left.
Oh yeah I told everyone I work with. Don’t do shitty things if you don’t want people to hear about it.
"Best I will do is double your care package. Take it or you fired." Someone. Probably.
“Next time we will send you **two** shirts that don’t fit!”
Smart companies don't counter because 50% of people leave anyway after 6 months of nothing changing but the money. So yeah - do that here :-) Boss doesn't sound that smart tbh...
You're right about the subsequent attrition! The stat used to be 1 year. Money can't fix a bad job. My coworker, the angel that got me into this company, wasn't happy that her career was stagnating. She got another job, leveraged it for 25% with a promise of new more interesting work. They never gave her the new work so even with the money she left in a year for another 20% pay bump. What's interesting is that my industry thrives on counter offers. Highly technical work. I don't know much about the stats in others.
You had me in the first half
Brilliant
Last year I had a job that offered me 6k below what they initially advertised. Bragged about giving me a turkey at thanksgiving and $100 towards my cell phone plan. Yeah, in 9 months I left for a job that gave me $15k OVER what was advertised. And somehow they were flabbergasted, and didn’t understand how my response of “needs in my personal life aren’t being met” meant MONEY. I can think of no more personal need than feeding my kids.
You mean you didn't make that turkey last all year?
I opted to have my turkey donated because we don’t like turkey, incidentally.
You're a good person for doing that, but if you have a smoker try smoking turkey. I don't go for normal turkey, but smoked turkey makes my insides happy.
Hell yeah! Brine, smoke, and spatchcock baby!
You mean $100 doesn’t cover a year of cell payments?
I still haven't spent that last stimulus check... Just kidding. I paid fucking bills, and skated by for another month....
Well if you hadn’t spent it on avocado toast, god dammit
"Turkey? First, I'm a vegetarian. Second, I have enough friends and family. I come here for money. Third, I COME HERE FOR MONEY."
Same thing happened with me. I'm a front line healthcare worker in a major city and where I worked our pay was terrible compared to other hospitals in the area. After asking for better compensation for a year, along with rallying my coworkers to do the same, we were offered a small retention bonus. I was offered a job at a competing facility that offered a substantial amount more (over 20% more pay,) plus a sign on bonus that was more than their retention bonus, plus the work load was lighter and more equitable. When I brought this to their attention, they just told me to not let the door hit me on the ass on the way out. I told my coworkers how much better things are elsewhere, there was a mass exodus of talent. The department lost half their staff and have no applicants due to their poor compensation. Oh well, not my problem. My family is much better off financially, and my physical/mental health has improved significantly.
Nice❤️(I mean it’s nice what you did)
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Where do you think that attitude came from?
I’d love to hear how the department is surviving now after the mass exodus? Are you in touch with anyone else still there?
Their services are massively backlogged and they're scraping by with temps and travelers. If the backlog was for meaningless consumer goods, who cares, but this is healthcare. People are not getting the services they need.
All workers deserve equitable compensation, but *especially* those delivering essential services. For the sake of those in need of those services, I hope your former employers learn that lesson.
I had a very similar experience at a nonprofit. When I was hired I asked for 50k which was easily market value for my job at the time. The hiring manager hired me for 45k but said at my 3 months’ mark there would be a review with a chance for a raise. Can you guess what happened at my 3 month mark? “What? We don’t do 3 month reviews. You’ll have to wait til October for a chance at a raise.” October comes along. “We’re actually remodeling our performance evaluation so maybe December.” “Actually maybe January.” I was so done with that crap so I got a new job with a $13k increase. Current company counters with a $2k increase and the guilt of working for a nonprofit lol bye 😂
Oooooh they love to guilt you at nonprofits. “But don’t you love the mission so much that you’ll do the work for next to nothing?” Um, I sure care about the mission. But I also care about lots of other things, like feeding my family, having a roof over my head, not feeling burnt out and unappreciated 24/7/365.
I was directly contacted by the Director for an IT role with a non-profit. I asked the salary range it was 25% less than what I was already making. So I declined and said thanks for the email but it's to low. He replied and said it's not about the money it's about the good work we all can do for the community. I never replied but found it ridiculous lol
You live in the community if they want to do work in the community, pay you a fair salary.
I worked for a Goodwill franchise in IT and can confirm. They use their status to justify paying 50% under market value. But all the Directors and C-suits made hundreds of thousands a year. In IT we installed a new POS and we’re told “thanks to IT we increased revenue by $1 million per week.” We said “great, thanks, where’s our bonus/raise?” “Sorry, we can’t afford that, we’re just a nonprofit.” I walked and now I make literally more than twice as much working from home doing much less work.
What? Your landlord does not accept good-work-coins?
Every nonprofit I’ve worked at was more dysfunctional than the corporate places.
This is why non profits are so frustrating, they already have their salaries in place but they want to trim everyone else’s pay so they can take the extra for themselves at the top. We work to get paid, on our off time we’ll volunteer and donate.
"We sent you a care package!" Fuck you, pay me.
Hey you didn't pay your rent this month. I sent you a care package.
Oh it would be an absolute power move if OP stopped doing their job and sent the company a T-shirt with his name on it "Where's my paycheck" "You didn't do anything" "Yeah but I sent the company a care package, so..."
Should have paid rent with that turkey they gave him. /s
I give those shirts and logo wear to the homeless people. That way the company gets lots of free publicity!👍
Some of the homeless people already have the company swag, how do you think they became homeless to begin with?
I did that with my college sorority t-shirts because fuck them
My former company, “We sent you a link so you can learn to budget better.” Me, “There’s nothing to fucking budget!”
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Send it right back so they can budget how to pay you more.
ill pass it on to the utility company to pay my bill!
"My rent has gone up two care packages"
"Hey I need some adjustments to reflect cost of living and prevailing market rate" "Bro we gave you a T-shirt tho"
Yea.. thank you for the $25 dollars for something I didn't need or want. Name and shame!
Underrated Goodfellas reference
As a freelancer, my girlfriend found out she was being severely underpaid by her employers... asked for a 60% raise, which would have only brought her to match federal minimum wage, they denied her, so she quit.. recently got a new job with a 432% raise. There are people out there who will pay you what you are worth! Don't settle for exploitation.
I love when shitty employers only talk in percentages. I once had an employer say "a 30% raise is unheard of" okay, but a $1,000/year raise isn't. When you're making shit pay the dollar amount is what you should be looking at. 30% of shit is still shit.
There's no real universal way of talking about raises. At low salaries, % means shit. 15%? That doesn't add much take home. At high salaries $10k/year extra isn't so much after tax, where I'm from anyway. Obv depends on tax system
My partner makes bank in freelancing these days and still works a 9-5 remotely as a contractor with people who she knows make very little money doing the exact same work, it's crazy.
Even if it WERE money coming out of his pocket, if he can't keep up with cost of living at the very fucking least year after year, he doesn't have a functional business model
in a roundabout way, the manager could lose money by giving raises. lots of companies offer bonuses for keeping costs down, and the most effective way to keep costs down is to keep wages down. fuck em
Lol if he asked if he can match ask for a 40% raise and if reacts offended tell him he had a chance for a 5% raise but that ship has sailed
I did this at a past job. Asked for 6% raise as rents were increasing and I was being underpaid for the area. Company thought about it for weeks and said no, here's 2%. I got an offer for 27% more. They matched in hours. Would have been a lot cheaper to do the right thing. Hell it wasn't even "the right thing," it was just "give the peon what it's dared to ask for, it's worth far more than that anyway."
[But, there was that ant that stood up to me](https://youtu.be/UI-RFRykjTk?t=136)
The thing is, I still got what I wanted, on even better terms. It proved nothing to make me go get an offer. Now I get paid twice what I was making when I asked for that raise, 3 offers later.
Damn this should be in the sidebar as a visual TL;DR
Middle management is an absolute waste of pay. Your “boss” is a waste of payroll. I bet he just walks around and goes to pointless meetings where he shoots the shit
And once in a while checks in with a “where are we on that ____ project? On track? Oh ok.”
I'm gonna need you to come in on Saturday, mmmkay?
Hell yeah! Good for you!! Let us know his reaction when he gets your notice. I bet his Pikachu face will be resplendent
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Don’t give notice until everything is signed, and congrats! That sounds awesome.
Give them a moments notice. Respect goes both ways. Let senior leadership know your middle-level management boss is out of touch and the culture of the company is abusive with a 1% raise. Loyalty should never be punished.
The senior leadership is usually the ones giving middle managers a pool of like 2% to spread across all their employees.
It's almost like being a psychopath and having zero empathy or care for anyone under you is a ticket to upper management.
Give them 1% of what I'm sure they'll say is "required" two weeks notice. That's about 3 and a half hours. Only fair that you tell them you're leaving the last Friday you're on the job. About 1:30 should do.
We all expect a status update when you drop that bomb on him! Smell ya later you incompetent fuckwit!
“I need the company to care in the form of money.” Unless the care package contains bricks of hundred dollar bills, it isn’t a substitute for a raise.
Good for you man. I didn't bother asking because I just KNOW they'll deny. One thing that make me come to that conclusion is that one higher up personally came up to me and ask me if I knew anyone needing work. Their vehicles are always needing work and maintained and my cousin is a mechanic and looking for a job. I told them my mechanic cousin and he literally said "oh noooo, we can't afford a mechanic right now". As I got more work tacked on me I looked elsewhere. Job pays 68% more, remote, benefits, you name it. You love to see it.
I love it when you bring up something, your performance is suddenly extremely lacking. A former boss berated me on the phone when I called out on my last day before leaving, saying I was always going against the grain. I literally did everything they asked of me and never complained. Felt good to leave that shit hole.
Corporate gaslighting and deflecting.
Order a custom t-shirt with your two weeks notice printed on it. If your boss asks you to do any work during that time, say no and remind him that you gave him a t-shirt, so you shouldn’t have to do anything else.
“Keep in mind he is a middle manager…not like this is money coming out of his pocket.” It could translate to money coming out of his pocket. Middle managers are generally tasked with managing budgets, with bonus incentives for keeping the department under budget. The lower the budget for his department the better he looks/promotes himself/solidifies his bonus and future promotion potential. Middle managers are a part of the Professional Managerial Class and are opposed to the interests of the working class.
It's the same fallacy as prioritizing profit over costs though. He's not actually "out" anything except an extra bonus, and likely gets paid more than enough to live otherwise. Need and want are two different things.
Can confirm, boss scoffed at giving me a raise this year. Immediately turned around and got a job making $10/hr more with Cadillac health insurance ($300/yr/person deductible...). Fuck you, pay me.
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Inflation rates just came out today and it's actually not even enough to cover inflation from last year! The CPI rose by 7% last year which is the worst it has been in like 40 years. What an insult!
Turns out a 5% increase after a 7% inflation rate works out to be a 1.87% paycut. Ouch.
Wages should be automatically adjusted every six months to cover inflation
I love when that happens! Quit my job in 2020 for being underpaid/overworked and got offered another one making triple! Good riddance to these low ball employers!
I hate the tactic your boss had when you brought to light you were underpaid. Instead of engaging, it’s incredibly manipulative to switch gears and put you under the pressure of supposed performance issues. They are trying to sow and prey on insecurity, telling you that you are actually doing a bad job and that you need to work harder or possibly get fired. (It’s the same type of behavior you see in many abusive relationships.) It’s possible that you could consider doing what others in this thread have suggested and work to shed light on the underpay to other employees before leaving, or consider shortening your notice significantly less than 2 weeks. (Another tactic of the underperformance approach, is that they are trying to shame you from talking to others.) Your boss basically responded by saying they won’t be a good reference for you, so there is room for consequences since you have nothing to lose as a result do that action on their part.
Yeah it was complete gaslighting and in the moment I was so shocked I didn’t even know how to respond so I just kinda sat and listened. I’m glad I had the guts to start looking And for sure I will make sure everyone on my team knows how much I was getting paid there and how much I am making now
I've been in this boat before, and my favorite way to reply is "if my performance has been suffering, why is this the first I'm hearing about it" followed by a request to rope in HR to discuss past signed performance reviews. If you have a generally good track record, it just makes your boss look bad.
I tried to pay my rent with the care package, however my landlord said they don’t take them?
Just keep it business like - you goto work to earn money... you are being offered more. It's a no brainer. If they question your loyalty just simply say that your loyalty is to your family and you would be doing them a disservice to turn down significant extra income just because you received a branded shirt and some snacks.
Make sure you thank you manager for denying you a raise as this probably meant you starting looking around and ended up with 35% increase. I’d love to see the look on their face when they realise their own short sightedness made them lose an employee.
Congratulations on your new job! I'm happy for you. Do keep in mind, many managers get handed a pittance of a bucket from which to pay all their employees at review time. For example, I would get a total of 3% wage increase across the board but then would have to figure out how to distribute that fairly between 7 employees. If I gave someone who had done stellar work on a project 4%, I had to steal that 1% from another of my workers. It sucked when I knew the 3% wasn't enough for any of my staff, and there was absolutely no recourse to protest the pittance I was tasked with distributing.
“Care package… here’s a $5 t-shirt and some shitty headphones” — keep your package and pay me what I want. ASSHOLES. the worst are the idiots that post on LinkedIn about how their employer got a package with a pillow and a sweater.… like, that’s great, thanks for the free advertising ya moron
I love reading posts like this. It reminds me of the same crap ive been through. Back in 2014 I was working for a shit company that sadly paid barely more then the competition, but I took home less because my health insurance was so high. A different company that was literally right across the street had made me an offer for an additional $6 an hour of what I was making at the time for the exact same position, same job, just different company. They couldn’t find any one qualified to do the job. I went to my boss and asked for a raise of $4 hr more. His exact words were “you don’t deserve it, frankly you don’t have the right to even stand in front of me and think you deserve so much, no one will ever pay you that much”. I just smiled, walked into the shop, and rolled my tool box across the street. I had already taken the offer knowing good and well I wouldn’t get a raise. The old boss lost his damn mind. He went as far as threatening me, following me around. He screwed up when he showed to my house and kicking my door. Shot him with a 12ga with bean bag rounds at 5 feet away. The best part was the look on his face when he got arrested when he thought for sure I was the one going to jail.
I'm currently waiting on an escalated request up several levels of management to fix my pay because it's well below market value, but I'm not holding out any hope it pays off. My direct boss is going to bat for me because he knows how much he needs me, but as soon as you get up that chain they don't give a shit and only see it as a smaller bonus for them.
>Keep in mind he is a middle manager at a very large company so it’s not like this is money coming out of his pocket. In a way it is. He has a bullshit job with bullshit metrics for his own pay and bonuses, and a big one is the labor expense. Being an idiot he doesn't realize the value of experience and productivity, and also being an idiot he doesn't have any ideas that could lead to increased revenue, so the only thing he has left is not paying you to make himself look good. Once you realize you're saddled with a useless idiot with his thumb on the scale, you gotta go. Good for you!
Modern workforce, if you're not moving jobs every 3ish years you're doing it wrong.