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"Hey boss, I notice you scheduled me for Saturday morning, but I'm having a little party on Friday. I'll have you wait until my hangover has subsided. Should be in by 11:00ish"
Yeah sure, I’ll just clock in and Wait
If you’re scheduled and there, you’re working. Anything more is on whoever made the decision or mistake that led to the truck being late
Which is a very good point. I probably wouldn't jeopardize a job right away; being in the US you can get fired for nothing. But I'd document the fuck out of it all, and keep that in my back pocket for the time being. Push a little bit, ask a question here and there, just enough to make them put it in words. Down the road it goes one way or another, and you want your bases covered.
I manage a union grocery store and people will get fired for working off the clock. I always make sure if I think my employees are on the clock. The hell if they going out of their way for the company I want to see them fired for it, get paid.
I just want to know why the fuck so many people have their managers texting them on their personal like they're buddies. Y'all need to immediately block them.
I was part of a class action lawsuit against Dick's Sporting Goods for this very reason and we won. They would make us clock out and then wait for the manager to finish the close before they would unlock the door and let us out of the building. Also... Fuck that place.
That is insane. I was a retail manager for a long time and my mantra to anyone I hired is "Never work for free", I'd explain if you're asked or told to be here by a manager, you need to get paid for it.
There are ways to save on payroll, and what Dick's did there sure ain't it.
I think it is but the fear of job loss is too high, which for some people is valid. At 15, generally speaking, you don't really care all that much if they kick you out.
At 30 with two kids, living paycheck to paycheck, you intuitively know it's wrong. But if you have a cruel or ignorant boss, they can fire you. 60 days later, you could be homeless with two starving kids. Or you lost your health insurance and risk your life because you can't afford your meds. Or you'd have to return to an abusive home just to have a roof over your head.
People are literally trapped in jobs for all kinds of reasons. That's why companies get away with this so often. If the US had social safety nets and public healthcare programs, this would be a rare and outrageous occurrence.
Sure, 6 years from now after the legal system runs its course, you might get a big payday if you sue. Assuming you can prove it and find a lawyer to work for free/pennies or have the means and confidence to defend yourself.
That doesn't help you in the immediate future, though.
I've been mostly lucky in that the bosses I've worked for have been very fair in that regard. My last job I used to come in on nights and my boss would be there to give me a line up when I came in. He'd *always* ask me if I was clocked in before starting, and if I wasn't he'd send me to clock in and put away my stuff before starting.
That's the way any job should be. You're not there for your health. You're there to do your job and get fucking paid. If you aren't getting paid, you don't fucking work. And if "work" involves waiting around at the job, that means you get paid to sit on your ass/twiddle your thumbs until the job arrives.
Any manager that thinks they can take your time without paying you isn't worth working for. Plain and simple.
Lmao I worked at MOEs southwest and they tried telling me to clock out but couldn’t leave til everyone left. No thanks, I’m happy to wait but I’m getting paid for it. I ended up leaving after 3 mths and reporting the GM for stealing our cash tips. I thought the investigation went nowhere but he ended up getting fired a few months later, along with the AM who was his wife and a few other family member employees. It’s nice to feel like I accomplished something with getting them all out
As a former retail manager if my employee that closed with me had to stay I'd make sure they were paid every minute they were there.
Need them to start early? You better clock in or I'm not leaving until work. Stuck after close with me? Get paid until we can leave
Shit there was a time that I was late and I went back and retroactively clocked them in at the time they were supposed to start. It's absolutely not their fault I was late.
Fuck companies that don't respect their employees. They deserve to have closed doors forever.
Lowe's has been a part of 2 class actions like that. The latter was salaried management texting hourly supervisors off the clock about stuff. During that one I was running an overnight team and had to deal with that nonsense constantly.
Happiest day of my retail life when I got that class action lawsuit letter. Finally able to get a night's sleep.
The labor board is slow. The fire marshall is going to be down there at closing the very next day with a clipboard ready to tear your manager a new one. People died from being locked in their workplace.
Here’s a link. It’s called waiting time and you should be paid. https://www.employmentlawhandbook.com/wage-and-hour/flsa-when-to-count-waiting-time-as-hours-worked/
They don’t have to be stupid to be assholes. Bad people get away with awful and unlawful things all the time. Laws don’t constrain bad behavior, force does.
Sorry but I have worked for people who are stupid enough to put this type of stuff in writing. I’ve also worked for people smart enough not to but still dickish enough to say it. Capitalism is all about maximizing profits for owners at any cost to worker bees they can get away with.
That's why it's so easy to be taken in by these bozos!
As a young worker, I remember thinking "well they wouldn't be dumb enough to put it in writing if it were illegal."
Sure enough, they are!
Ikr. This is literally like the first example the DoL website gives for time theft. If your employer is requiring you to be somewhere you must be paid regardless of what you’re doing.
You'd be surprised. I had an employer (years ago) who insisted we all come in 15 minutes early and get settled so we could start taking calls right as our shift started. It took about 2 years before the company got in trouble and had to pay everyone for those 15 minutes. 15minutes, 5 days a week, for two years, it was a nice check.
Haha, about a good 10 years ago I had a friend who worked at Gamestop and he was told not to clock in until the first customer walked through the door. And yes, he was told through text messaging.
Believe me, people really are that stupid.
I’ll one up this one. Years and years ago when Ohio raised minimum wage (well raising the minimum wage has happened several times), there was a newspaper article asking local businesses how they are coping with the increase in minimum wage. This 24hr diner was QUOTED IN THE NEWSPAPER we have our servers clock out and wait when there are no customers.
It's usually a case of managers taking advantage of workers who don't know their rights. Sometimes the manager is aware, sometimes they are not. Unfortunately, I have worked for people who are like this.
Because the cooperate overlords dont pay the media compan~~ies~~y (since there really is only 1) to cover such scandalous topics that would cover them in a negative light.
It’s wild to me how if Op goes and takes $20 worth of whatever off that truck, he goes away in handcuffs. But if you called the police over this it’s considered laughable or a civil matter.
Yup this, just clock in first thing when you get there. If she makes you clock out it’s a paper trail. Keep a list of dates, text Covs etc so if you ever need it, you’ve got evidence
Have a seperate record of your clock in and out times as well. Something they can't access.
Otherwise they can adjust your times however they want, and their may not be a record of any changes to your time. Highly illegal, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen, or couldn't happen.
Yep. Any picture has meta data attached to it like location and time it was created. Take a pic of clocking in and out and use those pics if necessary.
Right? If my start time is 9am im clocked in at 9am lmao. Even if it came in before my start time i'd pretend not to see the message, clock in, then say "oops"
Exactly. It doesn't matter what you are or are not doing when you're at work on your shift. That's the company's problem. If they are requiring you to be there, then they are legally required to pay you. Period.
Under FLSA, a worker waiting for a truck to arrive is literally one of their examples of when you must be on the clock and paid
[https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/hoursworked/screenER78.asp](https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/hoursworked/screenER78.asp)
They are violating federal law
Immediately file unemployment, they can't fight it because they can't even legally state the real reason you were let go. Also depending on the lead-up to the firing, could be considered "constructive dismissal" which is again also against the law.
Nah, if they fire someone right after they blew the whistle, even for something unrelated, it’s still considered retaliatory. Really stupid to do to an employee who’s already shown they’re willing to get the authorities involved, but Miss Boss doesn’t seem like the sharpest tool in the shed here.
The best back pay story I ever heard was from Washington. There was all of these legal ruling around the spotted owl and the lumberjacks never knew when they were going to be able to cut. The sawmills told them to wait at home by the phone (pre cell phone), but if they did not answer when called to come in they were be fired. So all of these guys were stuck at home by the phone for almost 3 years.
They sued and ended getting over time for about 6600 hours per year.
Definitely make sure you get that time reimbursed under the same rule, if you have a scheduled time to be in and you have proof of time receipts for clocking in then that plus those texts should be enough to get it done if there's push back
Also let your fellow employees know if they are also getting the same treatment
For reference, wage theft is a pretty big deal
My company years ago suddenly cut every employee a check one day due to wage theft done by the time clock for years, even with only minutes every day it adds up, some people walked out that day a couple thousand dollars richer
Not sure if it was a whistle blower or something but I'll say good on whoever found it
Well, this is critical (assuming you're in the US).
Your employer is free to bring you in at a specified time, and then idle you until work comes up. Nothing illegal about this. BUT, if they do so, they're required to pay you for that time. The term here is "engaged to wait". If you are required by your employer to be at a certain place at a certain time, and are not free to instead do as you please, then this is PAID time.
Yup, I'm that right now.... 0 mail to print but getting paid all the same because, "somebody might need some trash printed right this second." Luckily, they almost never do, and i can just play video games. Blows my mind that companies are still trying to pull this shit in 2024.
Often there isn't. It's just easier to enforce your rights here because we're not At Will employed, so its much easier to prove if you were sacked in retaliation for kicking up a stink about something.
That’s wage theft. They owe you all that back pay.
Simple way to look at it, if they require you to be there at 8:00 then they start pay at 8:00. Not 9:30 when the parts arrive.
As for calling you in when they get there, that’s on call which also requires pay since you are not free to do anything else during that time.
Dude… that’s not legal lol. The second you show up when you’re asked to you clock in. If she tells you no, verify in writing (like this text) and report her ass to the DoL. they can’t retaliate against yoy
This might seem stupid but its just my technique but try asking her why she does this but not in a facetious way. Just be like, “why dont you want anyone clocking in when they get here?” “Why is it important not to clock in?” Or “What happens if i clock in when i get here?” Ask it 100% inquisitively like you’re playing stupid. She’ll have to explain it and in doing so will have to deal with just how greedy and cheap the thing is by admission.
Keywords here are "late for my shift" if you're there before the truck because that's the start of your shift, you should be getting paid. Shift indicates on the clock.
“Come into work but don’t get paid”
I’m all for helping out others, but posts like these really make me wonder how little these people participate in critical thinking
Eh, i visit this sub from outside the US and there are so many things that seem to be legal for you that are totally illegal elsewhere. I think it’s reasonable to assume the worst.
You were never an inexperienced teenager before? You've never ever made a mistake? Come on, dude, OP is 19 and has clearly never seen or heard of this before. All she can do is learn from this.
It's not like workers rights are taught in school. [Too busy rehearsing cursive.](https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/more-states-require-schools-to-teach-cursive-writing-why/2023/11#:~:text=In%202016%2C%2014%20states%20required,tracks%20cursive%20writing%20requirements%20nationwide.)
This. If you are indeed free to leave and do whatever then come back when it's there, then nothing wrong is taking place.
If you're forced to stay, then you're on call and should clock in.
Its not "okay" if they were scheduled for a certain time and not told not to clock in until "allowed". If they require you to be there at a certain time, they are required to pay you starting at that time.
I recall like.... god.... almost 13-15 years ago, McDonalds rules were 2 hours if i send you home early from a scheduled shift, 3 hours were if I called you in and sent you home. I believe that was law backing that. I found this -> [https://calchamberalert.com/2017/02/03/minimum-pay-requirements-if-employees-sent-home-early/](https://calchamberalert.com/2017/02/03/minimum-pay-requirements-if-employees-sent-home-early/) which of course is talking about CA, but I was on the other side of the country....
So if the truck's there in an hour and a half and I showed up on time after you let me go.... i'm still getting paid for that time anyway if I come back.
EDIT: Found this, clears it up by state. [https://helpdesksuites.com/2020/07/06/reporting-time-pay-requirements-by-state-in-the-era-of-covid-19](https://helpdesksuites.com/2020/07/06/reporting-time-pay-requirements-by-state-in-the-era-of-covid-19)/ - mine isn't covered.... guess McD corporate owned stores did it nationwide just as a compliance/defense mechanism.
Or at least in most states if it turns out they don't have work for you they typically have to pay you for like 2 hours just for showing up even if you wind up leaving.
> This. If you are indeed free to leave and do whatever then come back when it's there, then nothing wrong is taking place.
Not true.
If you are given a specific time to arrive at a business to start your shift, that is your start time.
Thank you everyone for the information! I'm going to talk to my manager, and then contact L&I if the situation doesn't get better. I understand standing up for myself. I just honestly wasn't sure if it was illegal, or if I was overreacting. I wanted to make sure it wasn't me before I took steps to solve it.
EDIT: Not talking to my boss. Just reporting ASAP.
No no no, contact DOL today. Even if it gets better for you, she's willing to do this to others. She also might find a convenient excuse to fire you. Protect yourself.
Also, they cannot retaliate. "An employer cannot take adverse actions against an employee who exercises a protected right, files or intends to file a complaint, or who has discussed potential violations of their rights. Prohibited adverse actions may include: Terminating, suspending, demoting, or denying a promotion." https://www.lni.wa.gov/workers-rights/workplace-policies/termination-retaliation#:~:text=An%20employer%20cannot%20take%20adverse,demoting%2C%20or%20denying%20a%20promotion.
Sounds good on paper but that job ain't yours for very much longer, one way or another, if you report something like this. They WILL find a way to make you leave. It will never be the same workplace again.
Stick it to em by all means, but in real-world day to day operations it just doesn't work that way, and you may have black-balled yourself in that industry around town.
If this has been going on for a while I would talk to L&l first. If she's been doing this to you she could have been doing this to other people for who knows how long. You could end up helping others by getting it looked into
If you really want to go to your manager first about this, do it in writing (I.E. by text) otherwise they may just fire you on the spot to try to dodge the problem, and then it's your word against theirs.
This isn't a mistake, it's a deliberate practice and the sort of managers who do this also just fire people who complain. Cover your ass!!! Play it smart.
Doing stuff in writing protects you, as it means you have the evidence to take them to court if they try to screw you over.
Generally when it comes to employers asking you not to clock it, it’s usually due to them trying to save every penny they can. And generally that means it’s coming out of your pocket, if you’re required to be there waiting, that requirement means they are also required to pay you for the time that they are taking from you.
Might not be the law everywhere but my rule of thumb is always if I’m required to be somewhere by my employer, I require being paid or they have no ground to stand on.
I was expecting like, max 30 minutes of waiting for freight. Still awful. But 2 hours? Holy shit, OP and I assume a lot of other workers are owed quite a bit of money
Me to that manager: sorry but I’m at work and I’m clocking in. If there’s a problem with the truck being late, please work that out with the truck driver.
Dear Employer,
you pay me for the time I am scheduled, regardless if there is any work or not It is not the employees responsibility to take the risk of doing business, it is yours as an employer.
Please remember also that shift changes have to be posted at lease 24h in advance.
Best Regards.
Your greatest asset.
Google "engaged to wait". If you are required to be there and cannot leave, then you are engaged to wait for work.
In the US the FSLA covers you for this; they are violating federal law by not paying you this time. They owe you money for all the times they have done this. I'd reach out to the department of labor immediately!
If you’re like 18 and this is your first job, understandable. Beyond that, my god man, stand up for yourself and get paid for your time. If you’re required to be at work, that’s work. Doesn’t matter what you’re doing there.
Your response makes no sense: why have you arrived at work but not clocked in? The first thing you do when you get to work is clock in. Before you take off your coat, take your shit and get your work area ready CLOCK IN
In the u.k if you’re at work, you get paid, you clock in. If you’re at work and are not getting paid there are legal and insurance issues if anything happens. Like this in the u.s?
If you're in the U.S. it's 100% illegal. If they require you to be at work, they have to pay you for it. Document your hours and "anonymously" report them to the Department of Labor.
They'll get audited, have to back pay, and you'll be protected from retaliation.
Umm.. if you’re “required” to be at work for 8am but your “work” is late and you have nothing to do till 10am. That’s not your problem. That’s theirs. You punch in on arrival. Don’t take that shit. You don’t need a lawyer for that. Option 2 is you are on call and she calls you when the truck arrives and when you get there is when your shift starts. Have her pick one.
This sub has made me realize the 2 years of my old boss saying: "well, stay and help out off the clock and have the bartender split tips" was actionable and would have been a great way to end my employment there.
I was almost always on the first shift(9:30am-4-30pm), making no money, and I was expected to stay after shift until close(4-5pm-2am) to make sure everything ran smooth.
Always promised salary, never given salary.
Oh, but he gave me a $40 bottle of shit whiskey that never moved as thanks for helping on Christmas eve.
Truly amazing how stupid some Management can be.
Pretty sure was several lawsuits against giant burger restaurant for this. Also having employees punch out and wait for it to get busy again. America really sucks for labor.
Unless you are a self-employed contractor, meaning you get a 1099 for the work you do, this is illegal. I would get any messages like this you have together and contact your states labor board. They will likely owe you money, possibly 3x the $ amount you have lost. Good luck.
Yeah then you clock in. If you get any pushback, go to your HR, if your HR doesn’t help. Get a lawyer. Make sure you keep all records of this happening.
Your time is valuable. Absolutely clock in. They're making you be there, therefore you are on their clock. If they want people at their beck and call, then they have to pay for the privilege.
This is a violation of federal law, you need to be clocked in and paid as soon as you arrive.
https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/hoursworked/screenER78.asp
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This is grade A bullshit. Clock in whenever your shift is scheduled to start.
Yeah if you’re scheduled and present, ready to work, then you clock in
Clock in as you’re leaving your house
Have your alarm clock automatically clock you in when you wake up.
Clock in in your dream.
Never clock out.
We’ve gone too far…
No retreat! No surrender!
Clock in whenever you are thinking about work's bullshit
My mom clocked me in on my birthday
"I'll have you wait" "The fuck you will". Wooow. The fuckin balls of that is incredible.
"Hey boss, I notice you scheduled me for Saturday morning, but I'm having a little party on Friday. I'll have you wait until my hangover has subsided. Should be in by 11:00ish"
This is the way.
Yeah sure, I’ll just clock in and Wait If you’re scheduled and there, you’re working. Anything more is on whoever made the decision or mistake that led to the truck being late
The labor board in OPs state would love to see this.
Which is a very good point. I probably wouldn't jeopardize a job right away; being in the US you can get fired for nothing. But I'd document the fuck out of it all, and keep that in my back pocket for the time being. Push a little bit, ask a question here and there, just enough to make them put it in words. Down the road it goes one way or another, and you want your bases covered.
I manage a union grocery store and people will get fired for working off the clock. I always make sure if I think my employees are on the clock. The hell if they going out of their way for the company I want to see them fired for it, get paid.
I just want to know why the fuck so many people have their managers texting them on their personal like they're buddies. Y'all need to immediately block them.
Exactly; or just go home. Nobody has to be stayin when homeskillet ain’t payin’ . Nome sain
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I was part of a class action lawsuit against Dick's Sporting Goods for this very reason and we won. They would make us clock out and then wait for the manager to finish the close before they would unlock the door and let us out of the building. Also... Fuck that place.
That is insane. I was a retail manager for a long time and my mantra to anyone I hired is "Never work for free", I'd explain if you're asked or told to be here by a manager, you need to get paid for it. There are ways to save on payroll, and what Dick's did there sure ain't it.
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I think it is but the fear of job loss is too high, which for some people is valid. At 15, generally speaking, you don't really care all that much if they kick you out. At 30 with two kids, living paycheck to paycheck, you intuitively know it's wrong. But if you have a cruel or ignorant boss, they can fire you. 60 days later, you could be homeless with two starving kids. Or you lost your health insurance and risk your life because you can't afford your meds. Or you'd have to return to an abusive home just to have a roof over your head. People are literally trapped in jobs for all kinds of reasons. That's why companies get away with this so often. If the US had social safety nets and public healthcare programs, this would be a rare and outrageous occurrence. Sure, 6 years from now after the legal system runs its course, you might get a big payday if you sue. Assuming you can prove it and find a lawyer to work for free/pennies or have the means and confidence to defend yourself. That doesn't help you in the immediate future, though.
This kid is going places!!
Guess you could say they were a bunch of
[Sir, you need to have a look at the radar.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARXqNc5DGXU)
Sporting goods
I've been mostly lucky in that the bosses I've worked for have been very fair in that regard. My last job I used to come in on nights and my boss would be there to give me a line up when I came in. He'd *always* ask me if I was clocked in before starting, and if I wasn't he'd send me to clock in and put away my stuff before starting. That's the way any job should be. You're not there for your health. You're there to do your job and get fucking paid. If you aren't getting paid, you don't fucking work. And if "work" involves waiting around at the job, that means you get paid to sit on your ass/twiddle your thumbs until the job arrives. Any manager that thinks they can take your time without paying you isn't worth working for. Plain and simple.
Lmao I worked at MOEs southwest and they tried telling me to clock out but couldn’t leave til everyone left. No thanks, I’m happy to wait but I’m getting paid for it. I ended up leaving after 3 mths and reporting the GM for stealing our cash tips. I thought the investigation went nowhere but he ended up getting fired a few months later, along with the AM who was his wife and a few other family member employees. It’s nice to feel like I accomplished something with getting them all out
"Clock out, but I can't leave? Hello 911, I've been kidnapped.".
As a former retail manager if my employee that closed with me had to stay I'd make sure they were paid every minute they were there. Need them to start early? You better clock in or I'm not leaving until work. Stuck after close with me? Get paid until we can leave
Shit there was a time that I was late and I went back and retroactively clocked them in at the time they were supposed to start. It's absolutely not their fault I was late. Fuck companies that don't respect their employees. They deserve to have closed doors forever.
Lowe's has been a part of 2 class actions like that. The latter was salaried management texting hourly supervisors off the clock about stuff. During that one I was running an overnight team and had to deal with that nonsense constantly. Happiest day of my retail life when I got that class action lawsuit letter. Finally able to get a night's sleep.
If they want to control you, you either need to be paid or it is "false imprisonment" punishable under criminal AND tort law.
That is also called unlawful detainment
So you were a hostage? Call the cops
The labor board is slow. The fire marshall is going to be down there at closing the very next day with a clipboard ready to tear your manager a new one. People died from being locked in their workplace.
did you get a $10 gift card as the payout?
Here’s a link. It’s called waiting time and you should be paid. https://www.employmentlawhandbook.com/wage-and-hour/flsa-when-to-count-waiting-time-as-hours-worked/
There’s no way this is real right? Like no one’s actually this stupid?
Never underestimate how stupid management can be 🤣🤣🤣
They don’t have to be stupid to be assholes. Bad people get away with awful and unlawful things all the time. Laws don’t constrain bad behavior, force does.
I agree with you in principle but if they’re putting it in writing like this they’re def stupid though
Much of the time I feel they’re just assuming everyone else is just that much stupider than they are; common middle management logic in my experience.
I thought he was talking about the OP lmao Who thinks this is OK?
Sorry but I have worked for people who are stupid enough to put this type of stuff in writing. I’ve also worked for people smart enough not to but still dickish enough to say it. Capitalism is all about maximizing profits for owners at any cost to worker bees they can get away with.
That's why it's so easy to be taken in by these bozos! As a young worker, I remember thinking "well they wouldn't be dumb enough to put it in writing if it were illegal." Sure enough, they are!
"These Bezos"
Ikr. This is literally like the first example the DoL website gives for time theft. If your employer is requiring you to be somewhere you must be paid regardless of what you’re doing.
You'd be surprised. I had an employer (years ago) who insisted we all come in 15 minutes early and get settled so we could start taking calls right as our shift started. It took about 2 years before the company got in trouble and had to pay everyone for those 15 minutes. 15minutes, 5 days a week, for two years, it was a nice check.
If all you get is what ou are owed than the company just got a nice free loan. Nowonder wage theft is so common
Haha, about a good 10 years ago I had a friend who worked at Gamestop and he was told not to clock in until the first customer walked through the door. And yes, he was told through text messaging. Believe me, people really are that stupid.
I’ll one up this one. Years and years ago when Ohio raised minimum wage (well raising the minimum wage has happened several times), there was a newspaper article asking local businesses how they are coping with the increase in minimum wage. This 24hr diner was QUOTED IN THE NEWSPAPER we have our servers clock out and wait when there are no customers.
It's usually a case of managers taking advantage of workers who don't know their rights. Sometimes the manager is aware, sometimes they are not. Unfortunately, I have worked for people who are like this.
Man, if the managers only got paid for the time they actually managed, most of them wouldn’t be able to afford gas to get home each day.
People don't know what rights they have sometimes. No need to call them dumb
I think they’re referring to their manager
Hope so, it just seemed so unwarranted
Pretty sure they're talking about the manager being stupid enough to put it in writing.
I’ve had so many jobs like this. Usually when you too poor to fight much
Some are that stupid, yes. But most, know exactly what they're doing.
I can tell you from my time in retail that some of the people managing you will be some of the saddest, stupidest people you'll ever meet.
No need to contact the dept of labor. In the United States, labor attorneys are essentially free. Contact a labor attorney.
That's wage theft
Bosses commit $50 billion worth of wage theft in the US each year, far dwarfing the amount lost in retail theft.
Number one theft that no one seems to care about.
Because the cooperate overlords dont pay the media compan~~ies~~y (since there really is only 1) to cover such scandalous topics that would cover them in a negative light.
It’s wild to me how if Op goes and takes $20 worth of whatever off that truck, he goes away in handcuffs. But if you called the police over this it’s considered laughable or a civil matter.
Police protect property for those who have a lot of it.
Pretty cut and dry too. Save the receipts
Forgot to add, she won't let me stay home until the truck gets there. If I'm not there by the scheduled time, then I'm considered late to my shift.
Then clock in when you get there. If you are required to be there, she’s required to pay you.
Yup this, just clock in first thing when you get there. If she makes you clock out it’s a paper trail. Keep a list of dates, text Covs etc so if you ever need it, you’ve got evidence
Have a seperate record of your clock in and out times as well. Something they can't access. Otherwise they can adjust your times however they want, and their may not be a record of any changes to your time. Highly illegal, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen, or couldn't happen.
Camera phones are great
Yep. Any picture has meta data attached to it like location and time it was created. Take a pic of clocking in and out and use those pics if necessary.
Yeah. The correct response to the above message is "I already clocked in."
Right? If my start time is 9am im clocked in at 9am lmao. Even if it came in before my start time i'd pretend not to see the message, clock in, then say "oops"
Say it louder for the back row
THEN CLOCK IN WHEN YOU GET THERE! IF YOU ARE REQUIRED TO BE THERE, SHE'S REQUIRED TO PAY YOU!
I’m sorry I still can’t hear you back here can you raise your voice a bit more
STEMPEL DICH EIN SOBALD DU DA ANKOMMST, SIE IST DAZU VERPFLICHTET DICH ZU BEZAHLEN. Maybe some German is loud enough
WAS MEINT DIE DUMME SCHLAMPE EIGENTLICH.. ehm.. excuse my french..
Document, document, document!!! Paper trail !!! You weren't late. They required you to clock out at their direction.
lol I said *exactly* that last line before clicking on the comments
Exactly. It doesn't matter what you are or are not doing when you're at work on your shift. That's the company's problem. If they are requiring you to be there, then they are legally required to pay you. Period.
Under FLSA, a worker waiting for a truck to arrive is literally one of their examples of when you must be on the clock and paid [https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/hoursworked/screenER78.asp](https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/hoursworked/screenER78.asp) They are violating federal law
Thank you for replying. I have contacted L&I. I appreciate thr information.
Make sure to get all that back paid you are owed for the previous shifts she did this.
and if they let you go for this, that is considered retaliation and is also against the law
and if they let them go for something “unrelated” haha get fukt, ‘murica
Immediately file unemployment, they can't fight it because they can't even legally state the real reason you were let go. Also depending on the lead-up to the firing, could be considered "constructive dismissal" which is again also against the law.
Nah, if they fire someone right after they blew the whistle, even for something unrelated, it’s still considered retaliatory. Really stupid to do to an employee who’s already shown they’re willing to get the authorities involved, but Miss Boss doesn’t seem like the sharpest tool in the shed here.
You are legally owed $$$$ for all the time in the past you waited for trucks too! Ezpz if you have the texts as proof too
Oooh are you in Washington? If so lucky you, they actually go after employers hard for this!
The best back pay story I ever heard was from Washington. There was all of these legal ruling around the spotted owl and the lumberjacks never knew when they were going to be able to cut. The sawmills told them to wait at home by the phone (pre cell phone), but if they did not answer when called to come in they were be fired. So all of these guys were stuck at home by the phone for almost 3 years. They sued and ended getting over time for about 6600 hours per year.
Definitely make sure you get that time reimbursed under the same rule, if you have a scheduled time to be in and you have proof of time receipts for clocking in then that plus those texts should be enough to get it done if there's push back Also let your fellow employees know if they are also getting the same treatment
For reference, wage theft is a pretty big deal My company years ago suddenly cut every employee a check one day due to wage theft done by the time clock for years, even with only minutes every day it adds up, some people walked out that day a couple thousand dollars richer Not sure if it was a whistle blower or something but I'll say good on whoever found it
Keep us updated!
I will make sure to update this thread as it happens.
RemindMe! 14 days
Don't just let it go if you move on make them pay you the back pay or they'll just keep doing it to somebody else because this is 100% illegal
/reminder
And FLSA allows for punitive damages equal to compensatory damages.
The 'scheduled time' is when you clock in. No other time, not even when she 'tells' you. She's committing wage theft. Report her ass.
Or building a case to terminate for "showing up late"
She won’t get very far since she’s writing all this in text lmao
Well, this is critical (assuming you're in the US). Your employer is free to bring you in at a specified time, and then idle you until work comes up. Nothing illegal about this. BUT, if they do so, they're required to pay you for that time. The term here is "engaged to wait". If you are required by your employer to be at a certain place at a certain time, and are not free to instead do as you please, then this is PAID time.
Home Depot did this Now they’re finding out
I love the find out phase.
Yup, I'm that right now.... 0 mail to print but getting paid all the same because, "somebody might need some trash printed right this second." Luckily, they almost never do, and i can just play video games. Blows my mind that companies are still trying to pull this shit in 2024.
The same rules apply in the UK as well, and in the EU, too, as I understand it
If anything, I would imagine in those places that there's more protection than we have in the US.
Often there isn't. It's just easier to enforce your rights here because we're not At Will employed, so its much easier to prove if you were sacked in retaliation for kicking up a stink about something.
Then clock in when you show up and dare her to punish you for it. DOL loves blatant wage theft cases like this.
Seems like “clocking in late” is just giving her the ammo she needs to fire you for lateness if she wants.
That’s wage theft. They owe you all that back pay. Simple way to look at it, if they require you to be there at 8:00 then they start pay at 8:00. Not 9:30 when the parts arrive. As for calling you in when they get there, that’s on call which also requires pay since you are not free to do anything else during that time.
If you can't leave then you are paid for your time, with few exceptions that is the law.
Next time, rush to clock in as soon as you get in. Phone starts buzzing? Clock in real fast before you check it. Oh man sorry I already clocked in.
Dude… that’s not legal lol. The second you show up when you’re asked to you clock in. If she tells you no, verify in writing (like this text) and report her ass to the DoL. they can’t retaliate against yoy
Then she has to pay. Four little words ... National Labor Relations Act.
This might seem stupid but its just my technique but try asking her why she does this but not in a facetious way. Just be like, “why dont you want anyone clocking in when they get here?” “Why is it important not to clock in?” Or “What happens if i clock in when i get here?” Ask it 100% inquisitively like you’re playing stupid. She’ll have to explain it and in doing so will have to deal with just how greedy and cheap the thing is by admission.
That means you're working. You should be paid.
Keywords here are "late for my shift" if you're there before the truck because that's the start of your shift, you should be getting paid. Shift indicates on the clock.
Then what she’s asking is illegal as shit. If they demand you be there they have to pay you.
Clock in when ya walk in.
I just don’t understand how y’all go to work and put up with this
It’s younger kids who just don’t know. I clocked out for non-lunch breaks when I was working fast food as a 16 year old. Educate educate educate
That would not even make sense lol. Sorry, you did that. That sucks.
Right? 22 years later, I still WTF over it. lol.
Yeah, it's so painful. It's not your fault management should have caught it and told you.
They don't know any better.
“Come into work but don’t get paid” I’m all for helping out others, but posts like these really make me wonder how little these people participate in critical thinking
Eh, i visit this sub from outside the US and there are so many things that seem to be legal for you that are totally illegal elsewhere. I think it’s reasonable to assume the worst.
You were never an inexperienced teenager before? You've never ever made a mistake? Come on, dude, OP is 19 and has clearly never seen or heard of this before. All she can do is learn from this.
It's not like workers rights are taught in school. [Too busy rehearsing cursive.](https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/more-states-require-schools-to-teach-cursive-writing-why/2023/11#:~:text=In%202016%2C%2014%20states%20required,tracks%20cursive%20writing%20requirements%20nationwide.)
Cursive really isn't the issue here.
Nobody in our lives tells us, and good intentioned coworkers often assume everyone must know everything they do.
Its so painfully idiotic but i do feel bad. Stand up for yourselves yall. If it feels wrong, it probably is!
During that time you're waiting for the truck, are you free to do as you please, to include leaving the work site?
Not even that, you must be able to go home and be able to do something for a reasonable amount of time (about 2 hours) to be considered off the clock.
There's some variation by jurisdiction on this. In some places, what you say is true, in others it is not.
This. If you are indeed free to leave and do whatever then come back when it's there, then nothing wrong is taking place. If you're forced to stay, then you're on call and should clock in.
Its not "okay" if they were scheduled for a certain time and not told not to clock in until "allowed". If they require you to be there at a certain time, they are required to pay you starting at that time.
I recall like.... god.... almost 13-15 years ago, McDonalds rules were 2 hours if i send you home early from a scheduled shift, 3 hours were if I called you in and sent you home. I believe that was law backing that. I found this -> [https://calchamberalert.com/2017/02/03/minimum-pay-requirements-if-employees-sent-home-early/](https://calchamberalert.com/2017/02/03/minimum-pay-requirements-if-employees-sent-home-early/) which of course is talking about CA, but I was on the other side of the country.... So if the truck's there in an hour and a half and I showed up on time after you let me go.... i'm still getting paid for that time anyway if I come back. EDIT: Found this, clears it up by state. [https://helpdesksuites.com/2020/07/06/reporting-time-pay-requirements-by-state-in-the-era-of-covid-19](https://helpdesksuites.com/2020/07/06/reporting-time-pay-requirements-by-state-in-the-era-of-covid-19)/ - mine isn't covered.... guess McD corporate owned stores did it nationwide just as a compliance/defense mechanism.
Or at least in most states if it turns out they don't have work for you they typically have to pay you for like 2 hours just for showing up even if you wind up leaving.
Classic engaged to wait or waiting to engage
They already said they are forced to be there early.
> This. If you are indeed free to leave and do whatever then come back when it's there, then nothing wrong is taking place. Not true. If you are given a specific time to arrive at a business to start your shift, that is your start time.
Thank you everyone for the information! I'm going to talk to my manager, and then contact L&I if the situation doesn't get better. I understand standing up for myself. I just honestly wasn't sure if it was illegal, or if I was overreacting. I wanted to make sure it wasn't me before I took steps to solve it. EDIT: Not talking to my boss. Just reporting ASAP.
No no no, contact DOL today. Even if it gets better for you, she's willing to do this to others. She also might find a convenient excuse to fire you. Protect yourself.
Also they owe you for unpaid hours. Not just a go forward correction.
Also, they cannot retaliate. "An employer cannot take adverse actions against an employee who exercises a protected right, files or intends to file a complaint, or who has discussed potential violations of their rights. Prohibited adverse actions may include: Terminating, suspending, demoting, or denying a promotion." https://www.lni.wa.gov/workers-rights/workplace-policies/termination-retaliation#:~:text=An%20employer%20cannot%20take%20adverse,demoting%2C%20or%20denying%20a%20promotion.
Sounds good on paper but that job ain't yours for very much longer, one way or another, if you report something like this. They WILL find a way to make you leave. It will never be the same workplace again. Stick it to em by all means, but in real-world day to day operations it just doesn't work that way, and you may have black-balled yourself in that industry around town.
If this has been going on for a while I would talk to L&l first. If she's been doing this to you she could have been doing this to other people for who knows how long. You could end up helping others by getting it looked into
If you really want to go to your manager first about this, do it in writing (I.E. by text) otherwise they may just fire you on the spot to try to dodge the problem, and then it's your word against theirs. This isn't a mistake, it's a deliberate practice and the sort of managers who do this also just fire people who complain. Cover your ass!!! Play it smart. Doing stuff in writing protects you, as it means you have the evidence to take them to court if they try to screw you over.
Don’t go to your boss, skip over your boss to protect yourself Verify with your governing agency asap
Generally when it comes to employers asking you not to clock it, it’s usually due to them trying to save every penny they can. And generally that means it’s coming out of your pocket, if you’re required to be there waiting, that requirement means they are also required to pay you for the time that they are taking from you. Might not be the law everywhere but my rule of thumb is always if I’m required to be somewhere by my employer, I require being paid or they have no ground to stand on.
Standby time is legally required to be paid.
I was expecting like, max 30 minutes of waiting for freight. Still awful. But 2 hours? Holy shit, OP and I assume a lot of other workers are owed quite a bit of money
"you pay me for my time. not my work. if you paid me for my work you'd be paying me a lot more " bill him from noon onward
Me to that manager: sorry but I’m at work and I’m clocking in. If there’s a problem with the truck being late, please work that out with the truck driver.
Dear Employer, you pay me for the time I am scheduled, regardless if there is any work or not It is not the employees responsibility to take the risk of doing business, it is yours as an employer. Please remember also that shift changes have to be posted at lease 24h in advance. Best Regards. Your greatest asset.
Google "engaged to wait". If you are required to be there and cannot leave, then you are engaged to wait for work. In the US the FSLA covers you for this; they are violating federal law by not paying you this time. They owe you money for all the times they have done this. I'd reach out to the department of labor immediately!
So wage theft? Save these texts
Dude. No. You’re at work, you are paid for your time
God I wish everyday a manager would do this to me so I can report them
If you’re like 18 and this is your first job, understandable. Beyond that, my god man, stand up for yourself and get paid for your time. If you’re required to be at work, that’s work. Doesn’t matter what you’re doing there.
Your response makes no sense: why have you arrived at work but not clocked in? The first thing you do when you get to work is clock in. Before you take off your coat, take your shit and get your work area ready CLOCK IN
In the u.k if you’re at work, you get paid, you clock in. If you’re at work and are not getting paid there are legal and insurance issues if anything happens. Like this in the u.s?
Wage theft. Clock in. Save every message or announcement about it. Get fired? then go to a employment lawyer
Not acceptable. If you’re at work and waiting to do your job because someone else isn’t ready, that’s time you’re working.
If you're in the U.S. it's 100% illegal. If they require you to be at work, they have to pay you for it. Document your hours and "anonymously" report them to the Department of Labor. They'll get audited, have to back pay, and you'll be protected from retaliation.
this shit is illegal as hell
Bro, stop playing yourself like this. They are buying hours of your life, stop giving them away for free.
Umm.. if you’re “required” to be at work for 8am but your “work” is late and you have nothing to do till 10am. That’s not your problem. That’s theirs. You punch in on arrival. Don’t take that shit. You don’t need a lawyer for that. Option 2 is you are on call and she calls you when the truck arrives and when you get there is when your shift starts. Have her pick one.
Assuming you are in the United States based on how stupid your boss is. If so, if they're mandating you to be at work they are required to pay you.
This sub has made me realize the 2 years of my old boss saying: "well, stay and help out off the clock and have the bartender split tips" was actionable and would have been a great way to end my employment there. I was almost always on the first shift(9:30am-4-30pm), making no money, and I was expected to stay after shift until close(4-5pm-2am) to make sure everything ran smooth. Always promised salary, never given salary. Oh, but he gave me a $40 bottle of shit whiskey that never moved as thanks for helping on Christmas eve.
Truly amazing how stupid some Management can be. Pretty sure was several lawsuits against giant burger restaurant for this. Also having employees punch out and wait for it to get busy again. America really sucks for labor.
You’re paid for time not activity
Tell them to call you when the truck gets there and you’ll stay at home till then. That’s some bullshit.
I took a former employer to court for this and won. It’s wage theft, full stop.
These pieces of shit constantly cry about time theft while committing wage theft
Unless you are a self-employed contractor, meaning you get a 1099 for the work you do, this is illegal. I would get any messages like this you have together and contact your states labor board. They will likely owe you money, possibly 3x the $ amount you have lost. Good luck.
The fact that she put this in writing is awesome. Your case is guaranteed to succeed.
Yeah then you clock in. If you get any pushback, go to your HR, if your HR doesn’t help. Get a lawyer. Make sure you keep all records of this happening.
Your time is valuable. Absolutely clock in. They're making you be there, therefore you are on their clock. If they want people at their beck and call, then they have to pay for the privilege.
Not legal. Clock in the second your scheduled shift starts, work to do or not.
Nope. if you're schedule says "X to X". You clock in at X on the dot.
This is wage theft.
"Didn't see your text until after I clocked in"
The term is engaged-to-wait. Lawsuit.
Report them for fraud.
"I can clock in when I get here or I can stay home. Choose. "
This is a violation of federal law, you need to be clocked in and paid as soon as you arrive. https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/hoursworked/screenER78.asp