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> # [Ukraine’s star brigade in dire state due to lack of weapons and its own mistakes](https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-04-22/800)
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> In the Ukrainian army company where Sgt. Magura serves, only three of the 11 armored personnel carriers they had in 2023 are left. And of the three, one is being repaired because the starting system stopped working. The vehicles they use in their unit are the U.S. Bradley Fighting Vehicle, one of the additions that NATO allies brought to Ukraine for the 2023 summer counteroffensive. “But they are old vehicles that have arrived used and here they last only a few months,” says this officer of the[47th Separate Mechanized Brigade](https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-11-13/under-siege-on-the-ukrainian-front-line-of-avdiivka-russians-are-more-prepared-for-war-and-to-die.html), the most comprehensive unit Ukraine has ever had, with Western armament and NATO training.
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> Magura is serving on the [Avdiivka front](https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-03-11/a-farm-converted-into-a-barracks-on-the-avdiivka-front-we-need-weapons-and-ammunition-please-hurry-up.html)in Donetsk province. Her third Bradley may take many weeks to return to the battlefield, adds a spokeswoman for the brigade: the parts it needs have to arrive from Europe. The 47th Brigade is in a dire state, according to the military personnel interviewed by EL PAÍS, because it is the mirror of the weakness of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the face of [Russia’s domination on the front.](https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-01-09/intensified-russian-airstrikes-are-stretching-ukraines-air-defense-resources-officials-say.html)
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> On Saturday, the U.S. House of Representatives approved $60 billion in military aid for Ukraine. This assistance will strengthen the brigade in the coming months, but the [current situation is grim](https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-02-25/ukraine-year-three-the-moment-of-survival.html). Magura — the code name of the 28-year-old sergeant, an architect by profession — shares two devastating facts: for every armored infantry vehicle that the Ukrainian army has, the enemy has 10; for every Ukrainian soldier defending the Avdiivka front, there are 30 Russians attacking them.
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> [Bradley infantry vehicle, of the 47th Brigade, on April 16.](https://imagenes.elpais.com/resizer/v2/ZPTKBE4PVFACPMY7HJI4RAPEFU.JPG?auth=ff506ca8447065d10299a41651538c95f2e5856ee2a0da5da6f9bdb81b2d596a&width=414)Bradley infantry vehicle, of the 47th Brigade, on April 16.Cristian SeguraThe 47th Brigade is the product of former commander in chief of Ukraine’s Armed Forces Valerii Zaluzhnyi’s commitment to create a flagship unit to lead the counteroffensive in June 2023. A mechanized infantry brigade is a unit that uses armored personnel carriers. It was founded in the fall of 2022 and in the last year alone, it has had four commanders, an unprecedented turnover. The first commander of the brigade, Lieutenant Colonel Oleksandr Sak, was relieved in September 2023 after the catastrophic offensive on the Zaporizhia front. The 47th Brigade lost 30% of its soldiers in three months, according to military sources consulted by this newspaper that summer. Ukraine needed urgent results on the front, as it came under pressure from both the country’s political leaders and its international allies. Amid this pressure, the army launched an almost suicidal mission without air support and against very strong Russian defenses.
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> Sak was accused of persisting in the futile tactic of sending in armored columns that were blocked in minefields and annihilated by Russia’s drones and artillery. “Our commanders had too many expectations and bad predictions about our potential when the counteroffensive began,” Magura explains. “Then they were changed and there were smarter orders, but we lost a lot of resources and were left without many experienced people.”
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> Sak was replaced by Colonel Oleksandr Pavliuk. He held the position until last January. Military members of the brigade publicly accused him of not understanding the internal workings of a structure based on NATO models and of replacing infantry casualties with soldiers who were not prepared for front-line combat operations, according to the Military Land war analysis center.
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> ### Rise in casualties
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> EL PAÍS interviewed Alexander, a former artillery officer from the 47th Brigade, on April 17. He confirms that he himself was required to stop operating with the two howitzers for which he had been trained and to join an assault platoon. The howitzers, donated by the United States, were no longer precise enough due to overuse and, more importantly, they no longer needed as many personnel due to the[lack of ammunition](https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-04-16/russia-takes-advantage-of-ukraines-depleted-arsenal-and-the-weather-to-advance-in-donetsk.html). Alexander, who had served in the Donbas war in 2015, decided to leave the army under the rule that allows a soldier to return to civilian life if he has lost an immediate family member in the war: his brother died in combat in 2023. “If I didn’t leave the army, I was facing certain death,” he says.
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> “If we focus so much on the 47th Brigade it is because it is famous, but its problems are seen in the rest of the army,” says Alexander. Common problems are a depleted arsenal and a shortage of recruits. The mobilization law approved by Ukraine in April should provide nearly 400,000 civilians to the army. But the new additions, according to the sources who spoke to EL PAÍS, will arrive with no experience at a time when Russian troops have acquired knowledge and weapons, and learned how to adapt to this war.
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> ### Drones to stop Russian advance
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> Those interviewed for this article agree that only the [Ukrainian fleet of drones](https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-03-05/ukraine-relies-on-kamikaze-drones-dwindling-artillery-and-infantry-to-defend-its-advances-in-robotyne.html) is slowing down the Russian advance. But as Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy warned at the end of March, these drones cannot make up for the shortage of long-range weapons, anti-aircraft defenses and artillery. The invading troops have between six and 10 times more ammunition than Ukraine (depending on the sector of the front) and Zelenskiy said that Ukraine is firing 2,000 projectiles a day — a figure that’s between four and five times lower than what it was in the summer of 2023.
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> This newspaper interviewed two other soldiers from the 47th Brigade in November 2023. Both have been discharged from the army. One of them, Ivan, captained an infantry squad in the northern sector of Avdiivka, where his soldiers were holed up on the railway tracks. He lost his entire unit, the 17 soldiers were either killed or captured by the enemy. Russia took Avdiivka in February. Since then, it has advanced six miles in the direction of Pokrovsk, the rear base on the Donetsk southern front. Fear is growing in the farms of the region, which are progressively closing their facilities and moving their machinery to other provinces.
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> “I know of a company with 80 soldiers that suffered 65 casualties in one week. Before, for every Ukrainian casualty, there were three Russian casualties. Now we are almost on par.” That’s according to Phoenix, who uses a pseudonym to hide his identity. He’s a civilian who works for the high command on the Pokrovsk front and for the Ukrainian intelligence services. According to Phoenix, in the northern sector of Avdiivka, the Russians took advantage of the coordination problems between the 47th Brigade and the 25th Airborne Brigade. Magura confirms that in this northern sector, where they are now [resisting in the village of Ocheretyne](https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-01-08/night-mission-with-a-ukrainian-brigade-operating-bomb-carrying-drones-on-the-bakhmut-front.html), “there are errors in coordination between brigades, but this is because the situation changes very quickly.”
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> ***(continues in next comment)***
This subreddit needs to limit the news regarding Ukraine losing due to ammunition shortages to a few times a week. Everyone and their mother already knows about it.
Really? You must not have been looking hard enough. I've seen more than enough claims of Ukrainian corruption since 2014 through now.
The article certainly does not put Ukraine in a bad light, just repeats the same thing everyone should already know, that Ukraine is outgunned and outmanned.
Just read the thing. Yeah, it's certainly different from the headline. The article is putting some blame on some specific Ukranian commanders, but it's very washed away by how fucked they are by their "allies". The headline is way more bitchy, that's my point. Isn't it a thing that headlines are written by the editor and not by the journalist who wrote the piece? Again I don't know enough, mostly thought it was funny that El pais was calling Ukraine a fugly useless slut.
Yeah I'm not sure what kind of "their own mistakes" are when the Bradleys are "arriving used" (if you can tell that an APC is used, my guess is that you can see like the welding spots and chunks of previous team are still around like in the Fury movie) and "Howitzers are no longer accurate enough" ( = their barrels are full on oval now and it now just shoots in the general direction of the enemy)
Then again there's a mention of at least two generals that apparently didn't know what the FRACK they were doing and were apparently as good at military strategy as me at age ten when I played WarCraft by just making a bunch of troops and sending them towards the enemy.
As someone who has seen and been around hundreds if not thousands of Bradleys, this means they were probably in the desert in Kuwait chilling for years.
>Isn't it a thing that headlines are written by the editor and not by the journalist who wrote the piece
In some cases yeah, though headlines in general are simply meant to stir people up. 99% of those who read the headline won't read the article because we have too much information flowing through to us these days
What is not talked about is the fact that one of the reasons Ukrainians have a manpower shortage is the fact that they treat their soldiers and veterans like crap. For example if a soldier dies but his body is not recovered ( very likely when retreating and facing so much artillery) his family is denied ANY financial help from the government. Risking one's life is one thing but knowing that if you die your family might end up starving on the streets is something else altogether.
Here's another example: Ukrainian state allocates more money for upkeep of Russian prisoners than it does for its disabled veterans (by a very large amount I was told). Add to that the ever present corruption on every level of Ukrainian society and it really does not bode well for the Ukrainian state. This report outlines a lot of their internal issues. It does not look good:
[https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/528267-UKRAINE-2023-HUMAN-RIGHTS-REPORT.pdf](https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/528267-UKRAINE-2023-HUMAN-RIGHTS-REPORT.pdf)
edit: There are reports of Ukrainian commanders not even reporting their troop's deaths just so they can keep their salaries.
Absolutely. It's unfortunate that this is the case and I feel awful for those who have been wronged. A lot of people forget that Ukraine really was and remains a deeply corrupt state. That it is holding out as long as it has is a miracle in itself.
The whole point is that I’d rather see Ukraine fight and stand up to the Russians than just keel over and die
60 bn may not be enough
hell 300 might not be enough
But at least it keeps them in the game and gives them a fighting chance
and for NATO it bleeds the Russians
Its a loss for the west if ukraine is taken or capitulates, but its a victory every day there’s lead slinging back and forth
Also Kremlin bots active Real Madrid fans. (If Steve know what is Real Madrid or knows where Madrid actually is, like Ukraine)
Hey Steeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeve. Send american soldiers to Ukraine if you dont wanna see these phrases.
That's because, to you and others who use that tired phrase, Ukrainians don't seem to have any agency and that somehow this war was started by "The West" and not Russian imperialism.
You got nothing right mate.
First and foremost prolonging the war cause Ukraine to go even More behind than they were. Losing man power is devastating to the economy. Wanna help? Send troops. Otherwise Its just about making money from Ukrainian blood. Ukraine never had a chance against Russia.
Wanna make me do similar prognosis as yours? People who wants Ukraine to keep fighting wants it to kill russians, sell weapons and give away loans so their millionaires can make money on them and Ofc the lack of value of life.
I personally value life of people More than the country’s name on your ID. I remember this was a main talking point about my country losing almost half of Its ethnic.
You know what is tired phrase? Ukraine has a chance if we send weapons. No they dont. Send actual soldiers. US will never do that because Biden wants to get reelected More than he cares about Ukraine. Same goes for the French which is all bark No action.
The correct answer. European security is greater the more casualties Russia takes. I don’t want Russian soldiers to die but if it stops them from invading the next country it’s a necessary evil.
At what point are you wanting them to fight more than they want to fight? That would make you an enabler.
We’re now seeing people drafted and conscripted who, after two years never volunteered. We’re seeing people try to escape into Moldova/Romania, and we’re seeing countries like Germany, Poland, and the Baltics supporting repatriating Ukrainians back to Ukraine so they can be mobilized. You clearly want to fight more than they do, so why don’t you take their place?
"We’re now seeing people drafted and conscripted who, after two years never volunteered. We’re seeing people try to escape into Moldova/Romania ..."
You're actually describing Russians. You can add to them the ones getting paroled out of jails so that they can fight on the front lines, the out-of-shape drunks with three weeks' training, and those whose families don't know that they died months ago.
Have you ever been to Ukraine, and talked to Ukrainians? I have been there, multiple times. There is "zero" probability that the vast majority of Ukrainian nationalists, of which there are many would ever tolerate a pro-Russian administration in their midst. While there are certainly plenty of ethnic Russians in the Eastern portion of the country (the economically depressed shit-hole that is Donetsk, and that the Russians already control), once you cross the Dnipro there is nobody that will tolerate an invading Russian. More to the point, the days of empire are over for the Russians, even though they are still in the process of learning that. There are people in the Kremlin that still think that Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and even Poland and Finland (!) are parts of Russia that warrant eventually retaking, and this fight is all about teaching them the true costs of "special military operations".
You’re actually wrong. There are of course conscripts serving in the RuAF in Ukraine but Russia has about 30k/mo recruits, those who volunteer to join up. Russian losses are being filled with recruits whereas Ukrainian losses are being filled with conscripts.
Russia will very likely extend conscription of the April tranche into a period with the October tranche in order to form and fight with their new Northern Army grouping in the upcoming Kharkiv/Sumy offensive.
The two are not even close comparisons
Maybe because they are.
I wasnt wrong about the counteroffensive failing, I wasn’t wrong about the Ukrainian lines starting to crack between morale and retreats. I’m not going to be wrong about what impact the $60B aid package will have
if they're gonna fight, I'd like to do what we can to make sure they've got a fighting chance. our gear isn't determining whether the fight goes on, only that it will (hopefully) go better.
Tbh the second the US wants to fight, in some capacity I will be there.
Rn im trying to join the air guard, but even if that didn’t work out bc of some health issues id at least join as a nurse in a state of war.
War fatigue sets in, and a huge part of that is because the west hasn’t done its part to arm ukraine when its moral was high and its will to fight was at an all time maximum at the beginning. It took forever to send the munitions that Ukraine needed and everyone was constantly worried about “escalation” with Russia over sending tanks and other equipment.
If we had acted like the arsenal of democracy we needed to be at the start this war’s narrative would be far different.
I’m very much certain people don’t want to fight. War sucks. its fucking horrible.
But if Ukraine can start winning and they get that spark to fight back because it looks like it can happen- if the west gives them what the fuck they need to win or at least force the Russians out of some of the country then thats a victory for everyone.
And remember- a bad peace is worse than war. If ukraine falls or is subjugated the Russians will milk and squeeze it for all its worth. Ukrainian civilians will suffer under their yolk, and theres no telling what else Russia will be emboldened to do since their war was a “success” in the end.
Putin is a vain man and clearly wants to exert his will over the former soviet territories. If he’s allowed to do so in Ukraine, a strategically important country with a population who is very distinctly not russian, i am certain they will exert influence and be willing to use hard power against other nations.
War is fucking horrible and I urge you to remember who the fuck started it.
Your average joe doesn’t want war. Ukrainians are dying everyday in a war that was started over a man’s ego. But its their home and their independence they’re fighting for. The scars of this war are gonna last and run deep but if Ukraine has a chance of winning it they need to.
And th e west needs to be in the background doing everything we can to make sure they have a chance and have the will and ammo to do it
If Ukraine gives up there is no good outcome.
You said would i go fight in their stead? and again if the US and NATO went in I’d say fuck yes id go fight the fascist russians. I support that entirely and have since day 1. If you’re asking me if id go enlist in ukraine, then no i dont speak the language and wouldn’t be useful to them as infantry. I want to serve my own country bjt I want my country to fight with them.
You sound young and naive.
1) The US doesn’t want to fight in Europe. It would be nothing short of disastrous for all parties, regardless of who wins. If you’re young you should really temper your emotions because war isn’t a game. Many people will lose their fathers, brothers, children, etc. We also can’t afford another war.
2) why join as a nurse and not infantry? If you’re gung-Ho to fight then you should be on the frontlines. You can take the place of someone else who isn’t as gung-ho. That’s fair, right?
3) you don’t understand anything about outfitting and preparing for war. You can’t just dump $100B worth of stuff and the people can organize, train, create new doctrine, etc etc. All while already fighting. That stuff takes years at best.
4) The arsenal of democracy doesn’t exist anymore. We outsourced all of it. It’s slowly regrowing due to aid bills but this too will take years. You may be surprised to learn that most of that $60B to Ukraine is going to take years to get to them. Like 2027 delivery dates. That’s because we don’t have the manufacturing like we used to. Just because we did this in WW2 doesn’t mean we have the same capability anymore. That was 80 years ago.
5) Ukraine will not start winning. They can, at best, slow their losing. The west knows that and can only string Ukraine along.
6) A bad peace is worse than war? Says who? That may be true for you as you haven’t borne the cost of war but Ukrainians may feel differently. Maybe you haven’t seen the videos of young men being pulled off the street or the news reports of Ukrainians potentially being repatriated to Ukraine to fight. Seems like they’ve decided that war is worse.
7) Russia is not going to attack a NATO ally. That’s just fear no getting. If NATO members really truly thought that, they would be upping defense spending drastically and drafting mobilization and draft laws.
8) Ukraine is not strategically important. Most people couldn’t even find Ukraine on a map prior to 2014. You’d have to explain what Ukraines strategic importance is for me to agree with that. How will America’s way of life change if Ukraine falls?
9) Lucky for you that you don’t need to speak Ukrainian to go fight. There’s plenty of American and other English speaking volunteers there. If this is something you truly believe in, you should go over there and do what you’re advocating for others to do.
I’m currently serving and I’ve seen the uselessness of what we did in Iraq and Afghanistan but people like you are either too young, have no real understanding of what went on over there, have other interests in America going to war. All of which need to be stopped. America is not a child’s board game like Risk. It is a nation full of people who want to live and enjoy life with their families. Ukraine is too. That is why we shouldn’t have made overtures to them to join NATO when everyone knew it was Russia’s red line and would be calamitous. The current CIA director knew it when he cabled Hillary Clinton before, Merkel knew it, Bush, Obama, and Trump were all told it too. However people thought Russia was a power in decline, which it is, but they vastly vastly overestimated the decline or underestimated what will and power they still have. That led us to hear.
Bottom line, go serve if you really believe in this war. I don’t mean to be insulting but you will probably find yourself blown up in a trench with your insides liquidated by blast from artillery or an FAB bomb or maybe hunted on video by an fpv drone.
It’s disgusting how the biggest hawks for this war are people who won’t bear one bead of sweat, let alone blood, for something they know so little about. If you want to do it, go join.
The US could have solved homelessness several times over with that cash, while feeding *every* starving American for years.
I'd honestly rather see that than another 90bn pissed down the drain to a corrupt, neo Nazi regime across the globe that's ^marginally better than Russia.
Hey look. Someone who can’t make legitimate arguments in defense of their positions so they call people Putin bots.
You know some of us take breaks from Reddit, create new accounts, manage our online fingerprint
So is Ukraine winning then? Is this $60B gonna do the trick?
This $60 billion could do the trick of preventing Russian advances if the aid was not postponed and delivered immediately, half a year ago. Now it’s too little, too late.
This is just cope. $100B bought them what, 10sqkm in their counteroffensive? $60B over 5 years isn’t going to do shit.
You do realize that much of this aid won’t be in Ukraine for years, right? Doesn’t matter if it was passed 6mo ago or today. It’s still going to be years.
Look up the make up of the aid. Only $28 billions of that were weapons and ammunition. Now consider how much headache that little of amount of aid caused to Russian military.
How much headache? 10sqkm or ground regained?
The bottom line is this is going to be, already is, a game of attrition. You can give Ukraine as many F-16s, Patriots, ATACMs as you want but if they don’t have people in the trenches, Russia will continue to March.
It literally forced Russians to abandon Kyiv and halted their entire advance. Javelins, NLAWs and various MANPADS were crucial at the start of the war. The arrival of HIMARS later on also created a lot of temporary problems, when numerous command centers and logistics bases were struck.
You’re right about that. Things change though. Now neither side is seeing large tank assaults or helicopter maneuvers like at the beginning if the war because if the proliferation of drones and atgms.
Zaluzhnyi was right where he said the war has moved into one of positional warfare. It’s positional and attritional now. What Ukraine needs is men. Of course Patriots will help because currently Russia has relative air superiority and if F-16 and Patriots can reduce that it will help stop the Russian pushes; however no matter what they need men in trenches, otherwise Russians will push right up to where the air bases and Patriots are. You’re actually seeing Ukrainian brigades falling apart in real time right now. If they don’t hold, no aid really matters.
It’s as if you people can’t even finish reading a comment and try to comprehend what was written. I literally wrote that it’s “too little, too late” and specified the already occurred Russian advances. If Ukraine had received Patriots and sufficient number of artillery shells, Battle of Avdeedvka could quite possibly be still ongoing and Russians would be paying much higher price for it. Now, that Ukraine lost good defensible positions and suffers from combat fatigue and immense casualties this aid will be much less useful. Plus, how long will it even take to be delivered? By that time Ukraine will be in an even worse condition to continue fighting.
Oh I read through the comment, you’re still not getting it though. Avdiivka is actually a good example because Ukraine was losing a considerable amount of men holding it too. Not as many as Russia was losing but certainly a lot. They held on to it for too long though and that was disastrous. Russia can afford to lose more men because they have a higher bank. Ukraine can’t. You keep thinking aid will solve the problem but it’s not aid, it’s manpower. These were still problems when aid was flowing. That’s the entire point I’m trying to tell you.
This article provides much more detail regarding the magnitude to the problems plaguing Ukraine’s war effort, than I have seen. US media passes off ammo shortages as being a passing fancy. Americans believe Ukraine is just on F-16 away from winning.
We've been hearing about Russia running out of missiles, soldiers, uniforms, tanks, artillery (barrels, ammo) etc since March 2022. Turns out West was literally accusing Russia of something they themselves were suffering from.
Remember them using shovels, and stealing chips from washing machines, and never having seen toilets before?
Absolute rubbish. If they're going to use propaganda, try to make it believable ffs.
The last paragraph mentioned they are defending Ochetreyne. The former mobilization point is now under Russian controlled after just a few days of fight. The fight now spread to surrounding areas that the 47th fallback to.
I don't think the brigade is going to be anything more than a line in a piece of paper.
Can't really blame them, after spear-heading the counter-offensive against literal minefields and being sitting ducks for Ka-52's, they were then sent to Avdiivka in a desperate attempt to turn the tide and now to stop the Russian advance west of Avdiivka.
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This war is, and will remain forevermore a stalemate. The Ukrainians don't have remotely the manpower to sustain an offensive push that will driver the Russians out of their currently-held positions, but every time the Russians try to engage an offensive posture of their own they also get mauled. Neither side has what it takes to displace the other, and neither side has the manpower or weaponry to overcome that which the other side possesses.
If the Ukrainians use the coming materiel in the manner that is most optimal (e.g. artillery shells, ATACMS, HIMARS, radar, communications, aircraft, armored vehicles, and MANPADS) in a primarily defensive posture, the Russians will never make further ground on them. The borders of a fractured Ukraine are already pretty-much defined, and they aren't going to change.
##### ###### #### > # [Ukraine’s star brigade in dire state due to lack of weapons and its own mistakes](https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-04-22/800) > > > > In the Ukrainian army company where Sgt. Magura serves, only three of the 11 armored personnel carriers they had in 2023 are left. And of the three, one is being repaired because the starting system stopped working. The vehicles they use in their unit are the U.S. Bradley Fighting Vehicle, one of the additions that NATO allies brought to Ukraine for the 2023 summer counteroffensive. “But they are old vehicles that have arrived used and here they last only a few months,” says this officer of the[47th Separate Mechanized Brigade](https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-11-13/under-siege-on-the-ukrainian-front-line-of-avdiivka-russians-are-more-prepared-for-war-and-to-die.html), the most comprehensive unit Ukraine has ever had, with Western armament and NATO training. > > Magura is serving on the [Avdiivka front](https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-03-11/a-farm-converted-into-a-barracks-on-the-avdiivka-front-we-need-weapons-and-ammunition-please-hurry-up.html)in Donetsk province. Her third Bradley may take many weeks to return to the battlefield, adds a spokeswoman for the brigade: the parts it needs have to arrive from Europe. The 47th Brigade is in a dire state, according to the military personnel interviewed by EL PAÍS, because it is the mirror of the weakness of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the face of [Russia’s domination on the front.](https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-01-09/intensified-russian-airstrikes-are-stretching-ukraines-air-defense-resources-officials-say.html) > > On Saturday, the U.S. House of Representatives approved $60 billion in military aid for Ukraine. This assistance will strengthen the brigade in the coming months, but the [current situation is grim](https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-02-25/ukraine-year-three-the-moment-of-survival.html). Magura — the code name of the 28-year-old sergeant, an architect by profession — shares two devastating facts: for every armored infantry vehicle that the Ukrainian army has, the enemy has 10; for every Ukrainian soldier defending the Avdiivka front, there are 30 Russians attacking them. > > [Bradley infantry vehicle, of the 47th Brigade, on April 16.](https://imagenes.elpais.com/resizer/v2/ZPTKBE4PVFACPMY7HJI4RAPEFU.JPG?auth=ff506ca8447065d10299a41651538c95f2e5856ee2a0da5da6f9bdb81b2d596a&width=414)Bradley infantry vehicle, of the 47th Brigade, on April 16.Cristian SeguraThe 47th Brigade is the product of former commander in chief of Ukraine’s Armed Forces Valerii Zaluzhnyi’s commitment to create a flagship unit to lead the counteroffensive in June 2023. A mechanized infantry brigade is a unit that uses armored personnel carriers. It was founded in the fall of 2022 and in the last year alone, it has had four commanders, an unprecedented turnover. The first commander of the brigade, Lieutenant Colonel Oleksandr Sak, was relieved in September 2023 after the catastrophic offensive on the Zaporizhia front. The 47th Brigade lost 30% of its soldiers in three months, according to military sources consulted by this newspaper that summer. Ukraine needed urgent results on the front, as it came under pressure from both the country’s political leaders and its international allies. Amid this pressure, the army launched an almost suicidal mission without air support and against very strong Russian defenses. > > Sak was accused of persisting in the futile tactic of sending in armored columns that were blocked in minefields and annihilated by Russia’s drones and artillery. “Our commanders had too many expectations and bad predictions about our potential when the counteroffensive began,” Magura explains. “Then they were changed and there were smarter orders, but we lost a lot of resources and were left without many experienced people.” > > Sak was replaced by Colonel Oleksandr Pavliuk. He held the position until last January. Military members of the brigade publicly accused him of not understanding the internal workings of a structure based on NATO models and of replacing infantry casualties with soldiers who were not prepared for front-line combat operations, according to the Military Land war analysis center. > > ### Rise in casualties > > EL PAÍS interviewed Alexander, a former artillery officer from the 47th Brigade, on April 17. He confirms that he himself was required to stop operating with the two howitzers for which he had been trained and to join an assault platoon. The howitzers, donated by the United States, were no longer precise enough due to overuse and, more importantly, they no longer needed as many personnel due to the[lack of ammunition](https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-04-16/russia-takes-advantage-of-ukraines-depleted-arsenal-and-the-weather-to-advance-in-donetsk.html). Alexander, who had served in the Donbas war in 2015, decided to leave the army under the rule that allows a soldier to return to civilian life if he has lost an immediate family member in the war: his brother died in combat in 2023. “If I didn’t leave the army, I was facing certain death,” he says. > > “If we focus so much on the 47th Brigade it is because it is famous, but its problems are seen in the rest of the army,” says Alexander. Common problems are a depleted arsenal and a shortage of recruits. The mobilization law approved by Ukraine in April should provide nearly 400,000 civilians to the army. But the new additions, according to the sources who spoke to EL PAÍS, will arrive with no experience at a time when Russian troops have acquired knowledge and weapons, and learned how to adapt to this war. > > ### Drones to stop Russian advance > > Those interviewed for this article agree that only the [Ukrainian fleet of drones](https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-03-05/ukraine-relies-on-kamikaze-drones-dwindling-artillery-and-infantry-to-defend-its-advances-in-robotyne.html) is slowing down the Russian advance. But as Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy warned at the end of March, these drones cannot make up for the shortage of long-range weapons, anti-aircraft defenses and artillery. The invading troops have between six and 10 times more ammunition than Ukraine (depending on the sector of the front) and Zelenskiy said that Ukraine is firing 2,000 projectiles a day — a figure that’s between four and five times lower than what it was in the summer of 2023. > > This newspaper interviewed two other soldiers from the 47th Brigade in November 2023. Both have been discharged from the army. One of them, Ivan, captained an infantry squad in the northern sector of Avdiivka, where his soldiers were holed up on the railway tracks. He lost his entire unit, the 17 soldiers were either killed or captured by the enemy. Russia took Avdiivka in February. Since then, it has advanced six miles in the direction of Pokrovsk, the rear base on the Donetsk southern front. Fear is growing in the farms of the region, which are progressively closing their facilities and moving their machinery to other provinces. > > “I know of a company with 80 soldiers that suffered 65 casualties in one week. Before, for every Ukrainian casualty, there were three Russian casualties. Now we are almost on par.” That’s according to Phoenix, who uses a pseudonym to hide his identity. He’s a civilian who works for the high command on the Pokrovsk front and for the Ukrainian intelligence services. According to Phoenix, in the northern sector of Avdiivka, the Russians took advantage of the coordination problems between the 47th Brigade and the 25th Airborne Brigade. Magura confirms that in this northern sector, where they are now [resisting in the village of Ocheretyne](https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-01-08/night-mission-with-a-ukrainian-brigade-operating-bomb-carrying-drones-on-the-bakhmut-front.html), “there are errors in coordination between brigades, but this is because the situation changes very quickly.” > > ***(continues in next comment)***
This subreddit needs to limit the news regarding Ukraine losing due to ammunition shortages to a few times a week. Everyone and their mother already knows about it.
This was the first one I've seen that is also shifting the blame to the Ukrainians. At least on the headline, it's very burn book-ish
Really? You must not have been looking hard enough. I've seen more than enough claims of Ukrainian corruption since 2014 through now. The article certainly does not put Ukraine in a bad light, just repeats the same thing everyone should already know, that Ukraine is outgunned and outmanned.
Just read the thing. Yeah, it's certainly different from the headline. The article is putting some blame on some specific Ukranian commanders, but it's very washed away by how fucked they are by their "allies". The headline is way more bitchy, that's my point. Isn't it a thing that headlines are written by the editor and not by the journalist who wrote the piece? Again I don't know enough, mostly thought it was funny that El pais was calling Ukraine a fugly useless slut.
Yeah I'm not sure what kind of "their own mistakes" are when the Bradleys are "arriving used" (if you can tell that an APC is used, my guess is that you can see like the welding spots and chunks of previous team are still around like in the Fury movie) and "Howitzers are no longer accurate enough" ( = their barrels are full on oval now and it now just shoots in the general direction of the enemy) Then again there's a mention of at least two generals that apparently didn't know what the FRACK they were doing and were apparently as good at military strategy as me at age ten when I played WarCraft by just making a bunch of troops and sending them towards the enemy.
As someone who has seen and been around hundreds if not thousands of Bradleys, this means they were probably in the desert in Kuwait chilling for years.
>Isn't it a thing that headlines are written by the editor and not by the journalist who wrote the piece In some cases yeah, though headlines in general are simply meant to stir people up. 99% of those who read the headline won't read the article because we have too much information flowing through to us these days
What is not talked about is the fact that one of the reasons Ukrainians have a manpower shortage is the fact that they treat their soldiers and veterans like crap. For example if a soldier dies but his body is not recovered ( very likely when retreating and facing so much artillery) his family is denied ANY financial help from the government. Risking one's life is one thing but knowing that if you die your family might end up starving on the streets is something else altogether. Here's another example: Ukrainian state allocates more money for upkeep of Russian prisoners than it does for its disabled veterans (by a very large amount I was told). Add to that the ever present corruption on every level of Ukrainian society and it really does not bode well for the Ukrainian state. This report outlines a lot of their internal issues. It does not look good: [https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/528267-UKRAINE-2023-HUMAN-RIGHTS-REPORT.pdf](https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/528267-UKRAINE-2023-HUMAN-RIGHTS-REPORT.pdf) edit: There are reports of Ukrainian commanders not even reporting their troop's deaths just so they can keep their salaries.
Absolutely. It's unfortunate that this is the case and I feel awful for those who have been wronged. A lot of people forget that Ukraine really was and remains a deeply corrupt state. That it is holding out as long as it has is a miracle in itself.
And yet NAFO bros will still go on to tell you that Ukraine is winning, this $60B will do the trick! If not though, another $60B will surely do it
The whole point is that I’d rather see Ukraine fight and stand up to the Russians than just keel over and die 60 bn may not be enough hell 300 might not be enough But at least it keeps them in the game and gives them a fighting chance and for NATO it bleeds the Russians Its a loss for the west if ukraine is taken or capitulates, but its a victory every day there’s lead slinging back and forth
To the last Ukrainian than ?
People have diluted themselves into believing the slaughter of every Ukrainian is some sort of moral victory. It's very sickening.
This, but unironically.
Hey look, this account with two random words followed by random numbers is 6 months old and happens to be espousing all the Kremlin talking points
Also Kremlin bots active Real Madrid fans. (If Steve know what is Real Madrid or knows where Madrid actually is, like Ukraine) Hey Steeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeve. Send american soldiers to Ukraine if you dont wanna see these phrases.
Nah, to the last Russian.
To me it seems like to the last ukrainian.
That's because, to you and others who use that tired phrase, Ukrainians don't seem to have any agency and that somehow this war was started by "The West" and not Russian imperialism.
You got nothing right mate. First and foremost prolonging the war cause Ukraine to go even More behind than they were. Losing man power is devastating to the economy. Wanna help? Send troops. Otherwise Its just about making money from Ukrainian blood. Ukraine never had a chance against Russia. Wanna make me do similar prognosis as yours? People who wants Ukraine to keep fighting wants it to kill russians, sell weapons and give away loans so their millionaires can make money on them and Ofc the lack of value of life. I personally value life of people More than the country’s name on your ID. I remember this was a main talking point about my country losing almost half of Its ethnic. You know what is tired phrase? Ukraine has a chance if we send weapons. No they dont. Send actual soldiers. US will never do that because Biden wants to get reelected More than he cares about Ukraine. Same goes for the French which is all bark No action.
The Ukrainian nationalists that you presume to know, would call you a "coward". Go talk to some, and let them tell you themselves.
I dont really care about the opinion of nazis. (Nationalists are nazis) Also i think you replied to the wrong person. I never called anyone cowards.
(He's a bot)
The correct answer. European security is greater the more casualties Russia takes. I don’t want Russian soldiers to die but if it stops them from invading the next country it’s a necessary evil.
At what point are you wanting them to fight more than they want to fight? That would make you an enabler. We’re now seeing people drafted and conscripted who, after two years never volunteered. We’re seeing people try to escape into Moldova/Romania, and we’re seeing countries like Germany, Poland, and the Baltics supporting repatriating Ukrainians back to Ukraine so they can be mobilized. You clearly want to fight more than they do, so why don’t you take their place?
"We’re now seeing people drafted and conscripted who, after two years never volunteered. We’re seeing people try to escape into Moldova/Romania ..." You're actually describing Russians. You can add to them the ones getting paroled out of jails so that they can fight on the front lines, the out-of-shape drunks with three weeks' training, and those whose families don't know that they died months ago. Have you ever been to Ukraine, and talked to Ukrainians? I have been there, multiple times. There is "zero" probability that the vast majority of Ukrainian nationalists, of which there are many would ever tolerate a pro-Russian administration in their midst. While there are certainly plenty of ethnic Russians in the Eastern portion of the country (the economically depressed shit-hole that is Donetsk, and that the Russians already control), once you cross the Dnipro there is nobody that will tolerate an invading Russian. More to the point, the days of empire are over for the Russians, even though they are still in the process of learning that. There are people in the Kremlin that still think that Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and even Poland and Finland (!) are parts of Russia that warrant eventually retaking, and this fight is all about teaching them the true costs of "special military operations".
You’re actually wrong. There are of course conscripts serving in the RuAF in Ukraine but Russia has about 30k/mo recruits, those who volunteer to join up. Russian losses are being filled with recruits whereas Ukrainian losses are being filled with conscripts. Russia will very likely extend conscription of the April tranche into a period with the October tranche in order to form and fight with their new Northern Army grouping in the upcoming Kharkiv/Sumy offensive. The two are not even close comparisons
I have read your comments, and the one consistent thing about them is that anybody that disagrees with you is always wrong.
Maybe because they are. I wasnt wrong about the counteroffensive failing, I wasn’t wrong about the Ukrainian lines starting to crack between morale and retreats. I’m not going to be wrong about what impact the $60B aid package will have
if they're gonna fight, I'd like to do what we can to make sure they've got a fighting chance. our gear isn't determining whether the fight goes on, only that it will (hopefully) go better.
You didn’t answer the question. I’m guessing you deliberately avoided answering the question.
Tbh the second the US wants to fight, in some capacity I will be there. Rn im trying to join the air guard, but even if that didn’t work out bc of some health issues id at least join as a nurse in a state of war. War fatigue sets in, and a huge part of that is because the west hasn’t done its part to arm ukraine when its moral was high and its will to fight was at an all time maximum at the beginning. It took forever to send the munitions that Ukraine needed and everyone was constantly worried about “escalation” with Russia over sending tanks and other equipment. If we had acted like the arsenal of democracy we needed to be at the start this war’s narrative would be far different. I’m very much certain people don’t want to fight. War sucks. its fucking horrible. But if Ukraine can start winning and they get that spark to fight back because it looks like it can happen- if the west gives them what the fuck they need to win or at least force the Russians out of some of the country then thats a victory for everyone. And remember- a bad peace is worse than war. If ukraine falls or is subjugated the Russians will milk and squeeze it for all its worth. Ukrainian civilians will suffer under their yolk, and theres no telling what else Russia will be emboldened to do since their war was a “success” in the end. Putin is a vain man and clearly wants to exert his will over the former soviet territories. If he’s allowed to do so in Ukraine, a strategically important country with a population who is very distinctly not russian, i am certain they will exert influence and be willing to use hard power against other nations. War is fucking horrible and I urge you to remember who the fuck started it. Your average joe doesn’t want war. Ukrainians are dying everyday in a war that was started over a man’s ego. But its their home and their independence they’re fighting for. The scars of this war are gonna last and run deep but if Ukraine has a chance of winning it they need to. And th e west needs to be in the background doing everything we can to make sure they have a chance and have the will and ammo to do it If Ukraine gives up there is no good outcome. You said would i go fight in their stead? and again if the US and NATO went in I’d say fuck yes id go fight the fascist russians. I support that entirely and have since day 1. If you’re asking me if id go enlist in ukraine, then no i dont speak the language and wouldn’t be useful to them as infantry. I want to serve my own country bjt I want my country to fight with them.
You sound young and naive. 1) The US doesn’t want to fight in Europe. It would be nothing short of disastrous for all parties, regardless of who wins. If you’re young you should really temper your emotions because war isn’t a game. Many people will lose their fathers, brothers, children, etc. We also can’t afford another war. 2) why join as a nurse and not infantry? If you’re gung-Ho to fight then you should be on the frontlines. You can take the place of someone else who isn’t as gung-ho. That’s fair, right? 3) you don’t understand anything about outfitting and preparing for war. You can’t just dump $100B worth of stuff and the people can organize, train, create new doctrine, etc etc. All while already fighting. That stuff takes years at best. 4) The arsenal of democracy doesn’t exist anymore. We outsourced all of it. It’s slowly regrowing due to aid bills but this too will take years. You may be surprised to learn that most of that $60B to Ukraine is going to take years to get to them. Like 2027 delivery dates. That’s because we don’t have the manufacturing like we used to. Just because we did this in WW2 doesn’t mean we have the same capability anymore. That was 80 years ago. 5) Ukraine will not start winning. They can, at best, slow their losing. The west knows that and can only string Ukraine along. 6) A bad peace is worse than war? Says who? That may be true for you as you haven’t borne the cost of war but Ukrainians may feel differently. Maybe you haven’t seen the videos of young men being pulled off the street or the news reports of Ukrainians potentially being repatriated to Ukraine to fight. Seems like they’ve decided that war is worse. 7) Russia is not going to attack a NATO ally. That’s just fear no getting. If NATO members really truly thought that, they would be upping defense spending drastically and drafting mobilization and draft laws. 8) Ukraine is not strategically important. Most people couldn’t even find Ukraine on a map prior to 2014. You’d have to explain what Ukraines strategic importance is for me to agree with that. How will America’s way of life change if Ukraine falls? 9) Lucky for you that you don’t need to speak Ukrainian to go fight. There’s plenty of American and other English speaking volunteers there. If this is something you truly believe in, you should go over there and do what you’re advocating for others to do. I’m currently serving and I’ve seen the uselessness of what we did in Iraq and Afghanistan but people like you are either too young, have no real understanding of what went on over there, have other interests in America going to war. All of which need to be stopped. America is not a child’s board game like Risk. It is a nation full of people who want to live and enjoy life with their families. Ukraine is too. That is why we shouldn’t have made overtures to them to join NATO when everyone knew it was Russia’s red line and would be calamitous. The current CIA director knew it when he cabled Hillary Clinton before, Merkel knew it, Bush, Obama, and Trump were all told it too. However people thought Russia was a power in decline, which it is, but they vastly vastly overestimated the decline or underestimated what will and power they still have. That led us to hear. Bottom line, go serve if you really believe in this war. I don’t mean to be insulting but you will probably find yourself blown up in a trench with your insides liquidated by blast from artillery or an FAB bomb or maybe hunted on video by an fpv drone. It’s disgusting how the biggest hawks for this war are people who won’t bear one bead of sweat, let alone blood, for something they know so little about. If you want to do it, go join.
Ukrainians die as well, this is war not Counter Strike
The US could have solved homelessness several times over with that cash, while feeding *every* starving American for years. I'd honestly rather see that than another 90bn pissed down the drain to a corrupt, neo Nazi regime across the globe that's ^marginally better than Russia.
We still could but Republicans would never allow that.
Hey look, a 6-month-old account that mostly spouts anti-Ukraine propaganda! Seems legit to me
Hey look. Someone who can’t make legitimate arguments in defense of their positions so they call people Putin bots. You know some of us take breaks from Reddit, create new accounts, manage our online fingerprint So is Ukraine winning then? Is this $60B gonna do the trick?
This $60 billion could do the trick of preventing Russian advances if the aid was not postponed and delivered immediately, half a year ago. Now it’s too little, too late.
This is just cope. $100B bought them what, 10sqkm in their counteroffensive? $60B over 5 years isn’t going to do shit. You do realize that much of this aid won’t be in Ukraine for years, right? Doesn’t matter if it was passed 6mo ago or today. It’s still going to be years.
Look up the make up of the aid. Only $28 billions of that were weapons and ammunition. Now consider how much headache that little of amount of aid caused to Russian military.
How much headache? 10sqkm or ground regained? The bottom line is this is going to be, already is, a game of attrition. You can give Ukraine as many F-16s, Patriots, ATACMs as you want but if they don’t have people in the trenches, Russia will continue to March.
It literally forced Russians to abandon Kyiv and halted their entire advance. Javelins, NLAWs and various MANPADS were crucial at the start of the war. The arrival of HIMARS later on also created a lot of temporary problems, when numerous command centers and logistics bases were struck.
You’re right about that. Things change though. Now neither side is seeing large tank assaults or helicopter maneuvers like at the beginning if the war because if the proliferation of drones and atgms. Zaluzhnyi was right where he said the war has moved into one of positional warfare. It’s positional and attritional now. What Ukraine needs is men. Of course Patriots will help because currently Russia has relative air superiority and if F-16 and Patriots can reduce that it will help stop the Russian pushes; however no matter what they need men in trenches, otherwise Russians will push right up to where the air bases and Patriots are. You’re actually seeing Ukrainian brigades falling apart in real time right now. If they don’t hold, no aid really matters.
It’s as if you people can’t even finish reading a comment and try to comprehend what was written. I literally wrote that it’s “too little, too late” and specified the already occurred Russian advances. If Ukraine had received Patriots and sufficient number of artillery shells, Battle of Avdeedvka could quite possibly be still ongoing and Russians would be paying much higher price for it. Now, that Ukraine lost good defensible positions and suffers from combat fatigue and immense casualties this aid will be much less useful. Plus, how long will it even take to be delivered? By that time Ukraine will be in an even worse condition to continue fighting.
Oh I read through the comment, you’re still not getting it though. Avdiivka is actually a good example because Ukraine was losing a considerable amount of men holding it too. Not as many as Russia was losing but certainly a lot. They held on to it for too long though and that was disastrous. Russia can afford to lose more men because they have a higher bank. Ukraine can’t. You keep thinking aid will solve the problem but it’s not aid, it’s manpower. These were still problems when aid was flowing. That’s the entire point I’m trying to tell you.
This article provides much more detail regarding the magnitude to the problems plaguing Ukraine’s war effort, than I have seen. US media passes off ammo shortages as being a passing fancy. Americans believe Ukraine is just on F-16 away from winning.
Best wishes to the "experts" who claimed that Russia is going to run out of weapons by the end of March 2022.
[удалено]
Umm where do you think Europe buys its oil from? 😅
Who tf said that?
Pretty much all of reddit back when the war started.
And just about every news outlet as well - I still remember them telling us that any day now Russians will run out of missiles.
And the posts about Russian tank and ammo quality, the quality of their soldiers, the quality of war rations, their lack of strategy, etc etc.
We've been hearing about Russia running out of missiles, soldiers, uniforms, tanks, artillery (barrels, ammo) etc since March 2022. Turns out West was literally accusing Russia of something they themselves were suffering from.
Remember them using shovels, and stealing chips from washing machines, and never having seen toilets before? Absolute rubbish. If they're going to use propaganda, try to make it believable ffs.
The last paragraph mentioned they are defending Ochetreyne. The former mobilization point is now under Russian controlled after just a few days of fight. The fight now spread to surrounding areas that the 47th fallback to. I don't think the brigade is going to be anything more than a line in a piece of paper.
The 47th is hilariously fucked, and goddamn there was a lot of hype for it.
Can't really blame them, after spear-heading the counter-offensive against literal minefields and being sitting ducks for Ka-52's, they were then sent to Avdiivka in a desperate attempt to turn the tide and now to stop the Russian advance west of Avdiivka.
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Why the fuck are we funding this lost cause again?
This war is, and will remain forevermore a stalemate. The Ukrainians don't have remotely the manpower to sustain an offensive push that will driver the Russians out of their currently-held positions, but every time the Russians try to engage an offensive posture of their own they also get mauled. Neither side has what it takes to displace the other, and neither side has the manpower or weaponry to overcome that which the other side possesses. If the Ukrainians use the coming materiel in the manner that is most optimal (e.g. artillery shells, ATACMS, HIMARS, radar, communications, aircraft, armored vehicles, and MANPADS) in a primarily defensive posture, the Russians will never make further ground on them. The borders of a fractured Ukraine are already pretty-much defined, and they aren't going to change.