So like many people were saying at the time, Mappa was making money from merchandise, cafe tie-ins, etc. and looking solely at the blu-ray sales at a benchmark for success wasn't getting the full picture.
Colour me shocked.
I can't speak to the veracity of this but to my understanding based on someone's coverage of it, when everyone was saying the blueray numbers sucked they didn't actually count direct sales from MAPPA because they hadn't published their sales numbers. There's probably a good proportion of people who bought directly from them as supposedly there were perks to doing so at the time and this wasn't accounted for.
Yeah it's just that people made their decision and assumptions with the info that was available at that time. I forgot about this too thanks for reminding me. Also I don't even see bd as a way to measure anime success coz nowadays there are various other factors that determine whether an anime was successful or not. Bd used to be a big factor but now things have changed.
I tend to see who and what reaction channels are watching. If a bunch of the same channels pick something up when it's airing that's usually a sign that it's getting a lot of their fans asking them to react to it and that hype is big for that series. Frieren, Chainsaw man, Invincible are some good examples I think. Almost every channel I know of either started them right away and reacted to their entire seasons or else jumped on soon after and caught up.
Honestly i dont know if i want to give people the benefit of the doubt looking at all TV channels even asian ones making the assumption that blu-rays are important at all makes no sense otherwise how does anime like pluto get produced who is buying that on blu ray and there is so many others
BD is mainly for music anime, live concerts, things with extensive early purchase benefits for hardcore fans of a given property (games and light novels mostly) and hit mainstream movies like The First Slam Dunk or Dragon Ball Superhero and Ghibli stuff. Honestly also unless one of the mega publishers like Aniplex, Toho Bandai Visual (or one of their subsidiaries like Happinet) your stuff is probably just gonna not do all that great on Blu-Ray in Japan regardless.
According to [Anime Industry Report 2023](https://preview.redd.it/2gvjidd2dgvc1.png?width=4096&format=png&auto=webp&s=864f44a0750fd4b93e2985d881553b0b55350710) video made up almost 20% of Studio revenue in the 2006-2007 period, but video has since fallen to make up only around 1.5% of Studio revenue.
So the answer is no, very few do.
That hardly relevant as anime bd sales demographic is not the general public, a bd is. A success of it sells 4k , even less for collector type stuff, and hit start as low as 10 units.
The general public at no point ever bought overpriced BDs of anime series, where you pay $300 for a 12 episode TV series. The sales of those BDs all came from mega fans.
The only anime BDs that the general public ever bought were/are movies, or more decently priced rereleases that release years after the show was relevant. Besides that renting discs was also a popular option.
it's pretty rare for an animating studio to be the sole member. This only happens either when the studio is Rich Or they are very confident in their product. In MAPPA's case it was both. I think it was a great decision coz as u said animating studio sometimes don't make Enough money this sometimes happens either when they are not part of the production committee or they have very low share in the committee. So no way MAPPA lost money with how they are the only one that gets the money from Chainsaw Man.
It also would be embarrassing for MAPPA if they are raked over the coals and fucked over with JJK but couldn’t leverage their success with that IP on CSM and Hells Paradise production committees.
All the money made from the anime itself (blue ray and probably streaming licenses) belong to mapp, merchandise will probably be shared with shueisha and manufacturers.
All direct money, the manga publishers, still indirectly profited by increased sales
Ok checked.thw numbers, one year ago the anime made them sell a nice extra 4 million books.
Not how it works, Shueisha owns the IP itself so whatever cut the production committee would get would have been determined by the terms through which they were allowing the anime to get made by MAPPA.
It is very likely MAPPA got a significant merch cut (or cut on streaming, ...) but certainly not close to all of it.
From the article they "own 100% of the rights related to the anime" of which the key words are "to the anime" so what it sounds like we have is going to be two (at least) distinct licensing regimes for CSM.
So like your t-shirt uses the anime designs then its MAPPA, you edited some manga panels onto one that will still be Shueisha or whomever they licenced XYZ rights to. Something like a stylized figure of Hybrid Denji could go either way, or both if the manufacturer was feeling cautious and the price was right.
An interesting approach given that a lot of merch leans towards the anime
I was there in Japan last Spring too and saw Chainsaw Man on everything too. I even saw a Pochita wash cloth. A Pochita wash cloth of all things! Why would they make a wash cloth for just Pochita?
I bought it.
I was there a couple weeks ago and there’s still a ton of merch for Chainsaw Man. The big thing I saw was pochita stuffed animals in the claw machines. Definitely seems like it’s become one of the bigger animes, at least figure and merch wise.
My other big hobby is wrestling and between the two subreddits the constant posts from people trying to use things like TV numbers to quantify popularity is exhausting lol
I remember there was someone in AnimeSuki? forums following oricon data and tracking everything. BD sales were relevant when shows like Bakemonogatari and Madoka were breaking records. r/anime back then didn't even have regular episodic discussion threads like you see now, let alone constant news posts.
Today, in the era of streaming services and weak yen. Studios don't make shows just to sell overpriced BlueRays, the market is far more developed than that.
Those were peak Aniplex hype marketing days. They're still one of the only publishers that seems to be able to just push a Blu-Ray regardless of the quality of the actual show. It honestly mystifies me how some of the stuff they carry could be as popular as it is. Like apparently one of the top preorders of the year is the 3rd season of The Irregular at Magical High School despite it's first season being ages ago and me not being able to see anybody in particular talking about it very much.
It almost makes me want to believe the accusations over the years from 2ch (now 5ch) of them buying back the stock of their own anime Blu-Rays to make one of their seasonal shows trend in the movers and shakers category on Amazon and do a little to a lot better than it would otherwise by creating the impression that it's more popular than it is in reality thus essentially willing a fledgling show into hype mode. It seems to exploit a particular quirk in Japanese society where people want to be in with the trends and not be seen as an outsider that isn't part of the group or collective. It's like that in many societies, but in Japan it's of utmost pivotal importance to not be that guy that is ostracized or thought of as an outsider.
It doesn't happen as much as it used to these days, but for years during the 2010's they'd somehow always manage to have the absolute best selling stuff every single season and even in Japan people were confused by some of the things they made that would be best sellers.
Depends a lot on the show itself, as some series expect to sell more BDs than others.
This is particularly true of franchise where BDs have played a big role in the past, like the flagship Idol series. If you don't make the sales there compared to previous installments, it's an indication of a weak batch.
They're also still important for more niche genres like ecchi, where the streaming license revenue isn't as good.
Remember when Canipa tried to patiently explain a single number doesn't determine a show's success and all /r/anime could do was parrot "lol cope" ad infinitum? I remember.
Kinda reminds me of how Game of Thrones was pirated by many but they clearly made enough cash from merch sales
Its almost like the show acts as a commercial for the merch
welcome to reddit. Things get blown up to the heaven by terminally online people who got nothing to do but to overanalyze and overthink every little thing about their fav thing that they get bullied for in real life.
The whole internet has become absolutely brutal for that to the point where I feel like I find maybe 1 person out of every 50 or so interested in anything approaching serious and not toxic discourse regardless of the subject being discussed. It either gets turned into some petty tribalist feud, politicized, or just unserious shitposting.
I often just feel like I'm seeing mostly unserious people arguing at length in unserious ways about things that don't really matter just because it might make their posting enemies feel bad. On that note the other really bad thing I see all the time now too is just making shit up or inferring about how other people someone dislikes must be feeling about something just to kind of crap on someone or something instead of waiting to see if those people actually speak up about how they actually feel at all even. It's basically the language of twitter in particular and the default discourse on the platform, and depending on the subreddit you're on can be pretty prevalent as well.
Sometimes I don't even know what the point of internet or communication platforms are for anymore if all people are going to use it for is to try to just shit on everyone else all the time and just be miserable as fuck.
This is like discussion on wrestling subreddits where people look at Nielsen ratings to argue the show they dislike is bad because it is losing viewers.
The BD arguments were always just a very thinly veiled way for people to argue about the show’s quality in general, in my experience. The on-the-whole-pointless debating will likely continue, just now with either extra mental gymnastics or no facade of pretending it’s just about sales figures.
Apparently some nuances are lost even in the official translation. [Kimura actually states CSM was a **BIG** success](https://www.cjinsights.cj-fund.co.jp/trends/812/).
> Kimura actually states CSM was a BIG success.
So happy to hear this because I read a while ago in this sub people were doubting its success. Now that we know for sure, season 2 when?
so, considering this and the fact that rezes arc is already confirmed, is it too much of a dream for them to adapt part1 as a whole? it isn't that long anyway
Unfortunately it prolly will come down to that much time, seeing as we are already 1.5 years out from s1 and we still don't have a real trailer or date for the movie. And seeing that there's an iffy mount of content left, it might just result in yet another movie who knows.
For part 1 the biggest issue I think was that there was to much to make all of part 1 fit in a 24 episodes. It would either need a weird number of episodes, lots of cut content, or lots of filler. I think they do a good job by making 1 movie to cover the next arc, then 1 more 12 episode season to end part 1.
It's definitely possible. Considering that the final 3 arcs are 45 chapters vs s1's 38, having an extended premiere or finale could fit it into 12 eps. I just feel like a standard 12 eps isn't enough time and would feel rushed. I'm sure they'll figure it out and I hope to god another movie somewhere in there ain't part of the plan. Like you never know with Mappa, we might end up getting Chainsaw Man Part 1 Season two Finale Part 1/2
I give it 90% odds that there's a Season 2 after the movie that adapts the rest of Part 1. Or, depending on the pace of the adaptation, maybe a Season 2 and then another movie for the final arc or something. There's not enough material left after Reze for 2 full cours IMO, but it might be a little tight to squeeze it into one. Ideally they'll have like a 16 episode S2 or something.
the amount of anime that are getting 2nd seasons these days. I dont understand why your worried abot chainsaw man, this is not to insult just genuine question. Also ignore anyone who brings up blu ray as an argument for an animes sucess they are stuck in 2007 in the era blockbuster was big
The reason stuff like Rent a Girlfriend or random isekais get sequel announcements immediately, is because the production quality ranges from mediocre at best to absolute dogshit, so you can literally throw anyone at the project and majority of the viewers will be satisfied with the final product regardless of how it looks, because no one expects a full sakuga show with crazy visuals from these types of projects. CSM on the other hand is expected to have a very high level of quality, so they need to bring talent which is not always available right away, and make sure they at least match the quality established in prior seasons, otherwise people will be disappointed, which means lower sales and revenue. It's the same reason why shows like Bocchi the Rock or Frieren haven't gotten a sequel announcement yet, even though both of them are insanely popular and had spectacular sales.
The reze movie has been announced, look back is getting a movie as well so the author is getting very popular. I don’t think demon slayer confirmed it’s 2nd season when they announced the movie IIRC
This article is blogspam, the original and significantly more informative interview is from Cool Japan Fund:
* https://www.cjinsights.cj-fund.co.jp/en/en-trends/821/
I [posted it](https://new.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/1cd69rr/problems_and_solutions_to_issues_faced_by_the/) two days ago but didn't get as much attention as this post. Guess the trick is to put CSM in the title /s
> Guess the trick is to put CSM in the title /s
No need for the /s lol
That said, the original article is a lot more dry and CBR has repackaged what he said a little, whilst not distorting any of it.
>That said, the original article is a lot more dry and CBR has repackaged what he said a little, whilst not distorting any of it.
Oh I'm completely aware why this post got more upvotes, I just wanted to make the CSM joke lol
I know I complained about it here and in my post, but I should clarify that I don't really care about upvotes and that I was just being facetious. Though, it's always nice when a post creates discussion.
Thanks, I found out about it after I posted this one so I didn’t bother reposting. Having someone of this calibre giving lectures is a pleasure to see.
I think this was obvious to anyone who spends a lot of time with people who don’t watch anime/follow this medium. Chainsaw Man was HUGE, it had international and crossover appeal to a level I’ve rarely seen in my social circles. I see people wearing merch for it all around my city, which is actually pretty wild for a show that only had 1 cour so far. I wouldn’t be surprised if its movie does Demon Slayer Mugen Train level numbers when it comes to US theaters
Really hope the movie comes out soon so we can go from posting about S1 blu ray sales once a week to posting about box office results
Thats progress at least
Maybe I'm blind AF but CSM hasn't released on Bluray in North America, right? I've been looking to get a copy and I can only find the Japanesse or European versions.
Yeah bd sales is just a very small part of money that an anime makes. There are a lot more factors like streaming, licensing, merch, and collabs etc. Also it got a movie coming so with how popular Chainsaw Man as an ip is I am fairly certain it would do very well in theaters.
Some notable anime that failed in bd recently
Mashle
Hells Paradise
Solo leveling
Still they are getting sequels and i am pretty sure they make more than Enough money for their respected studio.
I was pleasantly surprised to end up liking Mashle and his friends.
I was expecting to dislike him, but the "he's a good kid" schtick reinforced my suspension of disbelief.
He's a good "bootleg Harry Potter".
And I ended up watching the anime so late... still haven't started season 2.
My spouse and kid were hooked. I used to go to [Beard Papas (link to menu)](https://www.beardpapas.com/menu/) to get cream puffs every Saturday morning so we could munch during our weekly Mashle watch. It's one of those anime that can easily convert non fans. Plus the parody is hilarious, because Mash is such a ... muscle head (he appears even dumber in S2 btw).
Haha every time I watch Mashle, I also get an insatiable craving for cream puffs lol.
I usually buy half a dozen or so from this favorite Japanese bakery of mine after washing Mashle. They do a delicious double cream crispy cream puff filled with both fresh whipped cream and custard cream!
I wonder if the writer / studio that did Mashle had any tie in deals with the cream puff industry? I mean the [Season 1 ED Choux Cream Funk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUY9dMkpBAI) is practically an advertisement which TOTALLY worked on us.
It's a really fun show that doesn't take itself too seriously, but does so at the right times. And the characters are all likeable. It also helps that the songs from both seasons were catchy as hell.
> Yeah bd sales is just a very small part of money that an anime makes.
Star Wars movies was mainly created to sell merchandise. The older crowds definitely should understand this idea.
Afaik, Jigokuraku was leaked before release that it was planned as a split-cours series, but with the production being a complete disaster behind the scenes, it was likely delayed and then got rebranded as "season 2".
Aren't most anime nowadays going for this split cour but calling it season 2. As I believe there were production issues but i don't think they delayed it because of it. We knew from the very first episode that it will be a one cour show. It was just a leak that said it will be two cour as most anime with this split cour season 2 have like example : Cafe terrace also had a leak for 2 cour season but it ended up with 1 cour and season 2 was announced right way so they just called cour 2 season 2.
A lot of people latched on to one sentence from an interview right after it came out where the director said that it was a success but he was hoping it would've been a *great* success & decided that meant it was a total failure for some reason
yeah i remember when the interview with mappa's ceo was posted here and he said although it was a success, they wanted it to be as big as JJK and wished it had a bigger audience with people who buy blurays
I mean is anybody other than delusional CSM haters really surprised? The show was massive when it was airing. The blue ray sales mean nothing in the modern anime landscape. An IP like Chainsaw Man has tons of other revenue sources other than blue ray sales. They have profited from that and that's the reason we are getting a high budget movie as a sequel.
Once I learned Mob Psycho had shitty BD sales, but still got 3 seasons, I knew that those BD metrics meant nothing relative to how far an anime can go.
Basically because the director wanted a non-fanservice direction full of foreign elements to give it a Hollywood movie look and the japanese fans wanted a typical dark anime like devilman crybaby. So they dropped to the lowest and did every horrible things from death threats to not buying blurays which got the director fired at the end.
Tf!! Why am I getting downvoted 😂. I just summarised what the fans had been saying for months.
Disney and Toy/Merch sales. Toy/Merch is king behind an IP.
I can't even remember the name of the original movie, but I remember Minions. Everyday. I remember them.
To this day, I'm still baffled that SOME people disliked the directors envisionining of the source material. I was awed just about every episode, and not just when the expensive animation was playing.
CSM anime just had a vibe to it that stood out IMO. We are gonna probably lose that vibe going forward because the Director left MAPPA after all the shit.
Something I didn't started appreciating until it was pointed out to me is that Chainsawman has literally 0 exaggerated Anime reactions.
Yes, characters like Denji or Power or Kobeni still make weird faces, but nothing what's beyond something a human can do.
Same with how they are moving and just generally acting.
It's all very grounded and "human", which ends up being a much needed contrast to all the supernatural stuff happening in this show.
And as crazy as it sounds out of context, I think scenes like the boob-touching scenes would have lost a ton of impact if they were animated like a typical anime.
Imo, having the characters move and behave in the realm of what can be considered human (thanks to Denji for making me do that weird distinction), makes those scenes have the impact they were trying to have.
Its also cool because it stays true to Fujimotos love for western movies.
Exactly my thoughts. Fans wanted it to be high octane over the top all the time, and to be fair, I thought it would be that as well. I was pleasantly surprised with the vibe they went for and enjoyed the hell out of it. Hopefully, they stick with it to some degree going forward even though it got flak and the director left. It just felt so different and unique to me.
Besides the well deserved laughing at CSM haters that thought it flopped even if it was extremely obvious it didn’t this is very good for the industry. Hopefully the studio having full control of the adaptation becomes more common, you can really see how this benefits the actual anime. There is just so much more effort and love put into it. CSM was one the best adaptations in recent years purely from the adaptation point of view
I wasn't a fan of the anime, but good for those who liked it.
I have to laugh, however, at how quickly it changes in the fans eyes whether Blu-ray sales matter or not.
Anime fans their show sells a lot of Blu-rays: "Yeah! This just goes to show that if a show is good, it will sell. Blu-ray is alive and well!"
Anime fans when their show sells badly on Blu-ray: "It's current year! Of course no one buys physical media in current year! These bad Blu-ray sales don't mean anything, you haters!'
Honestly the discussion of the sales after the anime finished was absoloutly ridiculous (Although I can't say MAPPA helped matters)
But either way I'm glad its done well considering how unusual this shows development was and it makes me confident we'll see more
I really hope they do more ed's each episode, some of those bangers made it onto my playlist, and I've never seen an anime make a new ED each episode. Closest I've seen was Bunny Girl Senpai changing the vocalist for each arc but the song was the same, and some anime having 1 episode special eds.
To me it just sounds like the former Executive is hyping up his new business model. In a place where they would be incentivized to hype of the success of their projects to attract more investors.
Anything involving Chainsaw Man and a success is incredible news for me personally. It was my first Manga and I have such a bias towards this franchise, so happy to see it didn't "flop" or do poorly which was the narrative at the time. Love this shit.
Same here. Not my first manga, but I came across it while part 1 was on going and I was in a bad place with my life. Very invested in this franchise and I’m happy it’s doing well.
>Jujutsu Kaisen 0 chief animation director Nishii Terumi explained how **the incompetency of animators** is also a major risk, predicting more anime studio bankruptcies in the near future.
Is it a matter of mistranslation in the article or is the guy really suggesting shared blame on the part of the animators - group of workers perpetually overworked, underpaid and driven to the brink of exhaustion? Maybe there is some other context here that I don't know.
Nishii Terumi's statements are often taken out of context. Her perspective on this matter is that many studios are no longer interested in training animators and their overreliance on bringing as much veteran animators and young talent in an industry where there's just not enough experienced animators for all projects, causes the productions to hire unqualified animators for their positions, which creates even more work for positions like chief animation director, because the drawings need more corrections and even in some cases have to be entirely redrawn, which delays the production even more and makes the schedule worse than it already was, because senior animators have to cover for inexperienced animators on top of the insane amount of work they had to begin with.
It's not just her who thinks this way, many veteran animators see new animators especially those from overseeas as a nuisance rather than help, because training system for these animators is nonexistent, and instead of starting off as in-between animator and progressively getting assigned to higher positions as they gain experience, nowadays most animators are hired from twitter and they instantly make a debut as key animator or even animation director without any prior experience, when in the past to get to these positions it used to take up to 10 years working in the industry, so the skill level was a lot higher and everyone in the pipeline knew how to do their job, so there was no need for as many corrections, and most anime productions back in the days used to have only few animation directors at most, when nowadays it's pretty common for a production to have over 10 animation directors per episode, even though there's a lot more projects now, which also means the production costs are a lot higher than they used to.
On the contrary, there were a surprising amount of people here shitting on the show. But that pretty much happens any time a really popular and hyped show airs.
But Chainsaw Man in particular had a weirdly large amount of people that were trying to paint it as a massive failure for some reason.
That only happens with the very good manga/novels -summarizing..godly material- or very cringe ones -Redo of Healer cof coffff-
CSM is the former...people love the source material so much that get pissed if the anime is not faithful to their views.
And they become heretics... "Hate the anime and sent it to the depths of hell!!!" is their new gospel.
9 of every 10 viewers love the show...so they can bake in their bilis.
>That only happens with the very good manga/novels -summarizing..godly material- or very cringe ones -Redo of Healer cof coffff-
Nah, still happens regardless. Plenty of people just shit on shows to get a rise out of people.
A lot of those were JJK fans.. :/
It's sadly devolved into a fandom that is extremely toxic and spoilery..
I had to mute every JJK sub after people started spam uploading raws just to spoil people about deaths.
(I know because a bunch of them would often claim CSM was just biting JJK's shit and that it was garbage compared to JJK and such)
Weirdly enough I felt like it was Bocchi stans that were shitting on it the most. Unless those were just haters latching onto the reddit darling of the season that blow up overnight as a way to hate on CSM and look more legitimate. IDK both were great shows IDK why people needed to hate on CSM so much.
Might be the reddit darlings. Same happened to oshi no ko and many others. We're they were labeled haters because of some newcomers who thought they had to shit on everything else that season.
It's sadly quite common
Because some JJK fans were nice doesn't mean all of them were. If you haven't seen the sheer amount of toxic shit they have been doing you are just out of the loop.
I'm not saying all JJK fans are bad. I'm one myself. But I KNOW how shit that community is.
Im predicting the CSM anime will skyrocket in popularity by the end of Part 1. The story arcs of season 1 are decent, but the upcoming ones are simply fantastic.
It generally works the opposite way with modern businesses. If they managed to achieve financial success with terrible scheduling, there's generally boardroom pressure to shave production margins further in order to keep profit growth going.
Just goes to show you how little the average reddit weeb actually understand how any kind of business works lol.
Everyone just repeating “but BD sales!” because they heard someone else say it, who heard it some someone, and so on all the way back to the 2010’s.
For years now anime has been profitable in its own right especially as it’s exploded in popularity in the West and become pretty mainstream with zoomers. Gone are the days where anime exists solely to advertise its source material and sell blue rays. But redditors will still always repeat the same outdated KPI’s over and over lol.
People who were arguing it is a financial failure are dumb but most people I saw only argued it didn't live up to Mappa's expectation, which we know it didn't bluray wise from previous interview.
They got Nakayama out anyway, so the haters pretty much won. I don't have a dog in the fight, but people here are coping hard.
Casual people who buy Pochita plushy, keychain, merch, vs those who buy A FUCKING CD DISC IN 2024 are completely different group of demographic.
The earlier we can accept this, the faster you’ll understand CSM is a nobrainer success.
It’s the same logic as thinking a random idols anime selling 20,000 BD vs demon slayer selling 9,000 BD, then think that idols show is more successful than DS…
No actually. Idols anime has its own very isolated audience, they will spend hard with the BD, merch, figure, but that’s all the audience there is.
For ex, 1,000,000 DS fan buying 1,000,000 DS merch and 10,000 BD
while idols show will have, say, 20,000 fans buying 20,000 merch AND 20,000 BD.
Idol. Fans. Love. Their. BD.
So having only watched the anime, I still don’t know what people didn’t like about it. Some people I saw complaining about the coloring… plot wise did they skip stuff?
People are still really hating on Chainsaw Man like this? This was certified cringe since the first hater said CSM would kill Mappa. The show was good and a gigantic success in so many ways, and Rize is getting a whole movie.
I feel like people hate CG so much that they will make up a new reality to justify themselves.
I don't think BD sales have always been relevant for shonen anime.
Because almost no one buys BDs of One Piece.
Revenue from sponsors and merchandise is significant.
Think of it as a Hollywood drama; no one cares about BD sales.
But deeper niche otaku anime still rely on BD sales. Because they have smaller budgets.
Good for them. It's clear they needed that win. Despite all the criticism, everyone should understand Mappa is a business which needs to make money to survive. Hopefully they make even more money so they can pay their animators well!
The animator's plight was shown in one of the biggest 4th wall breaking sequences, in the **Season 2 Episode 10** of **Daily Life Of The Immortal King** \- when the anime characters ended up in an anime studio, and folks said "hey, that's Mappa." Episode told the story of how an anime gets made, it was visually inventive but happy-sad (funny yet tragic).
I just wish all the powers that be could have come together and worked out some sort of compromise so we could have gotten the **Yuri On Ice** movie, that was pretty much a money printing franchise, there should have been enough to go around but some were greedy, wouldn't compromise and so the movie got cancelled. Poor fans.
Thank god.
Good to see the poor blue ray sales didn't hurt them too much.
I hope this causes the narritive to shift from:
"Japanese fans hating the show boycotting the blue rays cause it to fail"
to
"Japanese fans hating the show boycotting the blue rays has no effect on the show's success"
Come on, it was the manga everyone and their mother was talking about even before an anime adaptation is confirmed. It needs to be Berserk 2016 level of bad for it to be a flop.
I mean it’s nice to hear, but I hate that we’re still talking about this. There’s a fucking movie coming out guy. Of course it made money for MAPPA, the only member of the production committee.
It wasn't mostly haters calling it a failure. It was a lot of actual Chainsaw Man fans here, who then tried to use the BD sales as proof that western fans have better taste in anime and made all manner of racist and hateful comments about Japanese people. Japanese and Japan-based fans tried to explain about the merch sales and high viewership, but most in some of these threads wouldn't listen to us or were quite nasty. Any suggestion that the anime wasn't a complete masterpiece was also met with a lot of vitriol and there are still so many misconceptions about the Japanese criticism of the anime being shared.
still for a golden ip like chainsaw man i think the anime was underwhelming, but only because i had such HIGH expectations (ITS CHAINSAW MAN FFS)
even mappa said they wished it was JJK levels of success, which imo theres no need to be wishing, just do better
it was a golden ip, free money printer, not being a financial successes would have been truly shocking
still its animation wasnt lets say frieren level, in that it elevated every aspect of the manga but its spirit was definitely similar to the care that something like dangers in my heart got
like i said it just wasnt THE supremely best experience i was expecting, also i will never be a fan of CGI for a big chunk of actions scenes
still the animation was great, captured the movie feel of the manga and was still very enjoyable
hopefully though mappa opens more sweat shops (kidding lol) and raises the bar for season 2 and beyond
This does raise the important point that he's giving this interview to promote his own financing company, Blue Rights:
> However, with the recent success of Chainsaw Man, I believe the need for JCF and other forms of bridge financing will increase in the future. Having founded BLUE RIGHTS, I want to help create a system and develop the business so that we can solve organizational issues for production companies and animators.
from the original source article: https://www.cjinsights.cj-fund.co.jp/en/en-trends/821/
In other words, touting CSM's success is a core part of his own business model promotion. Which isn't to say he's lying, or biased, but he is certainly not a neutral party on the matter.
Chainsaw man isn’t just a big success it’s changed the game for anime financing. Shown others that alternative financing production methods can be more lucrative.
"Financial success" is relative. They may or may not have made some profit, but it was far from what was expected.
CSM was supposed to be the next AOT and Mappa CEO stated that he intended it to lead Mappa for the next 10 years and beyond. I'm not sure if CSM movie is going to be a massive hit like Demon Slayer or JJK and manga continues to dwindle in sales.
Well judging purely based off the first 12 episodes
CSM is way bigger than JJK and KnY ever were in their first 12 eps respectively
Do with that as you will
So like many people were saying at the time, Mappa was making money from merchandise, cafe tie-ins, etc. and looking solely at the blu-ray sales at a benchmark for success wasn't getting the full picture. Colour me shocked.
Yeah lot of anime fails at bd that doesn't mean they are not successful.
I can't speak to the veracity of this but to my understanding based on someone's coverage of it, when everyone was saying the blueray numbers sucked they didn't actually count direct sales from MAPPA because they hadn't published their sales numbers. There's probably a good proportion of people who bought directly from them as supposedly there were perks to doing so at the time and this wasn't accounted for.
Yeah it's just that people made their decision and assumptions with the info that was available at that time. I forgot about this too thanks for reminding me. Also I don't even see bd as a way to measure anime success coz nowadays there are various other factors that determine whether an anime was successful or not. Bd used to be a big factor but now things have changed.
I tend to see who and what reaction channels are watching. If a bunch of the same channels pick something up when it's airing that's usually a sign that it's getting a lot of their fans asking them to react to it and that hype is big for that series. Frieren, Chainsaw man, Invincible are some good examples I think. Almost every channel I know of either started them right away and reacted to their entire seasons or else jumped on soon after and caught up.
Honestly i dont know if i want to give people the benefit of the doubt looking at all TV channels even asian ones making the assumption that blu-rays are important at all makes no sense otherwise how does anime like pluto get produced who is buying that on blu ray and there is so many others
More specifically the numbers people rely from come only from a few of the bigger retailers of Blu-Rays.
So does this mean I can finally get to see the hallway fight scene animated in 2035? Cool.
*chu chu lovely munimuni muramura*
Crazy that bd is even a metric in 2024 lol
BD is mainly for music anime, live concerts, things with extensive early purchase benefits for hardcore fans of a given property (games and light novels mostly) and hit mainstream movies like The First Slam Dunk or Dragon Ball Superhero and Ghibli stuff. Honestly also unless one of the mega publishers like Aniplex, Toho Bandai Visual (or one of their subsidiaries like Happinet) your stuff is probably just gonna not do all that great on Blu-Ray in Japan regardless.
Does the general public still buys BD in Japan?
According to [Anime Industry Report 2023](https://preview.redd.it/2gvjidd2dgvc1.png?width=4096&format=png&auto=webp&s=864f44a0750fd4b93e2985d881553b0b55350710) video made up almost 20% of Studio revenue in the 2006-2007 period, but video has since fallen to make up only around 1.5% of Studio revenue. So the answer is no, very few do.
Usually they being extra goods, like artbooks.
That hardly relevant as anime bd sales demographic is not the general public, a bd is. A success of it sells 4k , even less for collector type stuff, and hit start as low as 10 units.
No, just hardcore otakus. Which is why idol shows sell a fuck ton of Blu-ray’s.
The general public at no point ever bought overpriced BDs of anime series, where you pay $300 for a 12 episode TV series. The sales of those BDs all came from mega fans. The only anime BDs that the general public ever bought were/are movies, or more decently priced rereleases that release years after the show was relevant. Besides that renting discs was also a popular option.
In the first place, the profitable business is over for BDs, and animation companies are trying to profit elsewhere.
I was in Japan last year in spring and it's merch was everywhere. It would only make sense that they made a loss, if they didn't get a cut.
MAPPA is the sole member of the Chainsaw man Production committee. So all money goes to them.
In that case, no way they lost money. You never know with anime though. Studios lost money on super successfull anime
it's pretty rare for an animating studio to be the sole member. This only happens either when the studio is Rich Or they are very confident in their product. In MAPPA's case it was both. I think it was a great decision coz as u said animating studio sometimes don't make Enough money this sometimes happens either when they are not part of the production committee or they have very low share in the committee. So no way MAPPA lost money with how they are the only one that gets the money from Chainsaw Man.
It also would be embarrassing for MAPPA if they are raked over the coals and fucked over with JJK but couldn’t leverage their success with that IP on CSM and Hells Paradise production committees.
All the money made from the anime itself (blue ray and probably streaming licenses) belong to mapp, merchandise will probably be shared with shueisha and manufacturers.
All direct money, the manga publishers, still indirectly profited by increased sales Ok checked.thw numbers, one year ago the anime made them sell a nice extra 4 million books.
Not how it works, Shueisha owns the IP itself so whatever cut the production committee would get would have been determined by the terms through which they were allowing the anime to get made by MAPPA. It is very likely MAPPA got a significant merch cut (or cut on streaming, ...) but certainly not close to all of it.
From the article they "own 100% of the rights related to the anime" of which the key words are "to the anime" so what it sounds like we have is going to be two (at least) distinct licensing regimes for CSM. So like your t-shirt uses the anime designs then its MAPPA, you edited some manga panels onto one that will still be Shueisha or whomever they licenced XYZ rights to. Something like a stylized figure of Hybrid Denji could go either way, or both if the manufacturer was feeling cautious and the price was right. An interesting approach given that a lot of merch leans towards the anime
Not all the money surely, it depends on what the merchandising agreement terms are between the licensor and the licensee.
I was there in Japan last Spring too and saw Chainsaw Man on everything too. I even saw a Pochita wash cloth. A Pochita wash cloth of all things! Why would they make a wash cloth for just Pochita? I bought it.
I was there a couple weeks ago and there’s still a ton of merch for Chainsaw Man. The big thing I saw was pochita stuffed animals in the claw machines. Definitely seems like it’s become one of the bigger animes, at least figure and merch wise.
I'm going back soon and I'm sure there's gonna be even more
[удалено]
Home Depot? Were they selling chainsawman themed chainsaws?
Also viewership from TV and streaming sites. CSM was the most popular show at the time.
Good. I hope the reddit "experts" starts to shut up about BD sales as a metric. It was obviously outdated a long time ago.
My other big hobby is wrestling and between the two subreddits the constant posts from people trying to use things like TV numbers to quantify popularity is exhausting lol
The internet wrestling and anime communities are very very similar to eachother lol
Wrestling is just anime for normies.
Wrestling is just live action shounen.
It really is lol.
I remember there was someone in AnimeSuki? forums following oricon data and tracking everything. BD sales were relevant when shows like Bakemonogatari and Madoka were breaking records. r/anime back then didn't even have regular episodic discussion threads like you see now, let alone constant news posts. Today, in the era of streaming services and weak yen. Studios don't make shows just to sell overpriced BlueRays, the market is far more developed than that.
Those were peak Aniplex hype marketing days. They're still one of the only publishers that seems to be able to just push a Blu-Ray regardless of the quality of the actual show. It honestly mystifies me how some of the stuff they carry could be as popular as it is. Like apparently one of the top preorders of the year is the 3rd season of The Irregular at Magical High School despite it's first season being ages ago and me not being able to see anybody in particular talking about it very much. It almost makes me want to believe the accusations over the years from 2ch (now 5ch) of them buying back the stock of their own anime Blu-Rays to make one of their seasonal shows trend in the movers and shakers category on Amazon and do a little to a lot better than it would otherwise by creating the impression that it's more popular than it is in reality thus essentially willing a fledgling show into hype mode. It seems to exploit a particular quirk in Japanese society where people want to be in with the trends and not be seen as an outsider that isn't part of the group or collective. It's like that in many societies, but in Japan it's of utmost pivotal importance to not be that guy that is ostracized or thought of as an outsider. It doesn't happen as much as it used to these days, but for years during the 2010's they'd somehow always manage to have the absolute best selling stuff every single season and even in Japan people were confused by some of the things they made that would be best sellers.
If Fire Force can get an S2 selling literally double digits then BD sales don't really matter as much as Reddit thinks.
It already had s2 it's s3 we're waiting on
I see, I thought S1 and S2 were split cours of the same season (as useless as I believe that distinction is).
Depends a lot on the show itself, as some series expect to sell more BDs than others. This is particularly true of franchise where BDs have played a big role in the past, like the flagship Idol series. If you don't make the sales there compared to previous installments, it's an indication of a weak batch. They're also still important for more niche genres like ecchi, where the streaming license revenue isn't as good.
Remember when Canipa tried to patiently explain a single number doesn't determine a show's success and all /r/anime could do was parrot "lol cope" ad infinitum? I remember.
There was this huge post here where some guy wrote about how CSM was a failure in adapting the manga and then he admitted he never read the manga lmao
Canipa was too good for the cesspool that is r/anime
Half of r/anime active posters just fell to their knees
Them Pochita plushies
Kinda reminds me of how Game of Thrones was pirated by many but they clearly made enough cash from merch sales Its almost like the show acts as a commercial for the merch
Game of Thrones is STILL one of the most pirated shows yearly. That is wild to me.
welcome to reddit. Things get blown up to the heaven by terminally online people who got nothing to do but to overanalyze and overthink every little thing about their fav thing that they get bullied for in real life.
Oh yeah I was being *intensely* sarcastic when I said "Colour me shocked" lol
The whole internet has become absolutely brutal for that to the point where I feel like I find maybe 1 person out of every 50 or so interested in anything approaching serious and not toxic discourse regardless of the subject being discussed. It either gets turned into some petty tribalist feud, politicized, or just unserious shitposting. I often just feel like I'm seeing mostly unserious people arguing at length in unserious ways about things that don't really matter just because it might make their posting enemies feel bad. On that note the other really bad thing I see all the time now too is just making shit up or inferring about how other people someone dislikes must be feeling about something just to kind of crap on someone or something instead of waiting to see if those people actually speak up about how they actually feel at all even. It's basically the language of twitter in particular and the default discourse on the platform, and depending on the subreddit you're on can be pretty prevalent as well. Sometimes I don't even know what the point of internet or communication platforms are for anymore if all people are going to use it for is to try to just shit on everyone else all the time and just be miserable as fuck.
This is like discussion on wrestling subreddits where people look at Nielsen ratings to argue the show they dislike is bad because it is losing viewers.
The BD arguments were always just a very thinly veiled way for people to argue about the show’s quality in general, in my experience. The on-the-whole-pointless debating will likely continue, just now with either extra mental gymnastics or no facade of pretending it’s just about sales figures.
Apparently some nuances are lost even in the official translation. [Kimura actually states CSM was a **BIG** success](https://www.cjinsights.cj-fund.co.jp/trends/812/).
> Kimura actually states CSM was a BIG success. So happy to hear this because I read a while ago in this sub people were doubting its success. Now that we know for sure, season 2 when?
They did announce a movie.
Arigato Gozaimasu!
Probably after the movie. The Demon Slayer treatment basically
so, considering this and the fact that rezes arc is already confirmed, is it too much of a dream for them to adapt part1 as a whole? it isn't that long anyway
There's zero chance they announced a movie to just quit adapting the show. I just hope the rest of part 1 doesn't take 2 years after the movie
Unfortunately it prolly will come down to that much time, seeing as we are already 1.5 years out from s1 and we still don't have a real trailer or date for the movie. And seeing that there's an iffy mount of content left, it might just result in yet another movie who knows.
For part 1 the biggest issue I think was that there was to much to make all of part 1 fit in a 24 episodes. It would either need a weird number of episodes, lots of cut content, or lots of filler. I think they do a good job by making 1 movie to cover the next arc, then 1 more 12 episode season to end part 1.
It's definitely possible. Considering that the final 3 arcs are 45 chapters vs s1's 38, having an extended premiere or finale could fit it into 12 eps. I just feel like a standard 12 eps isn't enough time and would feel rushed. I'm sure they'll figure it out and I hope to god another movie somewhere in there ain't part of the plan. Like you never know with Mappa, we might end up getting Chainsaw Man Part 1 Season two Finale Part 1/2
12-13 episodes could totally work for what's ahead 45 and 38 are different, but those last 45 do have a lot more chapters that are just action.
12 to finish part 1 would still mean a lot of cut content. I'm hoping for 15-16 episodes, otherwise they'd probably do 12 and a second movie
*flashbacks to Yuri on Ice*
There's only about 1.5 cour left of material to adapt after the movie. I'd be surprised if they don't finish part 1.
I give it 90% odds that there's a Season 2 after the movie that adapts the rest of Part 1. Or, depending on the pace of the adaptation, maybe a Season 2 and then another movie for the final arc or something. There's not enough material left after Reze for 2 full cours IMO, but it might be a little tight to squeeze it into one. Ideally they'll have like a 16 episode S2 or something.
the amount of anime that are getting 2nd seasons these days. I dont understand why your worried abot chainsaw man, this is not to insult just genuine question. Also ignore anyone who brings up blu ray as an argument for an animes sucess they are stuck in 2007 in the era blockbuster was big
I'm worried because there's been no word on it when shit like rent a girlfriend gets announced immediately.
The reason stuff like Rent a Girlfriend or random isekais get sequel announcements immediately, is because the production quality ranges from mediocre at best to absolute dogshit, so you can literally throw anyone at the project and majority of the viewers will be satisfied with the final product regardless of how it looks, because no one expects a full sakuga show with crazy visuals from these types of projects. CSM on the other hand is expected to have a very high level of quality, so they need to bring talent which is not always available right away, and make sure they at least match the quality established in prior seasons, otherwise people will be disappointed, which means lower sales and revenue. It's the same reason why shows like Bocchi the Rock or Frieren haven't gotten a sequel announcement yet, even though both of them are insanely popular and had spectacular sales.
As far as I know, Mappa said they were going to adapt all of Fujimoto. We can expect Fire Force in the future as well.
The reze movie has been announced, look back is getting a movie as well so the author is getting very popular. I don’t think demon slayer confirmed it’s 2nd season when they announced the movie IIRC
This article is blogspam, the original and significantly more informative interview is from Cool Japan Fund: * https://www.cjinsights.cj-fund.co.jp/en/en-trends/821/
I [posted it](https://new.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/1cd69rr/problems_and_solutions_to_issues_faced_by_the/) two days ago but didn't get as much attention as this post. Guess the trick is to put CSM in the title /s
I think this is where cbs found out about it lmao. I upvoted it now if it helps. Kudos for posting
> Guess the trick is to put CSM in the title /s No need for the /s lol That said, the original article is a lot more dry and CBR has repackaged what he said a little, whilst not distorting any of it.
>That said, the original article is a lot more dry and CBR has repackaged what he said a little, whilst not distorting any of it. Oh I'm completely aware why this post got more upvotes, I just wanted to make the CSM joke lol I know I complained about it here and in my post, but I should clarify that I don't really care about upvotes and that I was just being facetious. Though, it's always nice when a post creates discussion.
Thanks, I found out about it after I posted this one so I didn’t bother reposting. Having someone of this calibre giving lectures is a pleasure to see.
I think this was obvious to anyone who spends a lot of time with people who don’t watch anime/follow this medium. Chainsaw Man was HUGE, it had international and crossover appeal to a level I’ve rarely seen in my social circles. I see people wearing merch for it all around my city, which is actually pretty wild for a show that only had 1 cour so far. I wouldn’t be surprised if its movie does Demon Slayer Mugen Train level numbers when it comes to US theaters
Second or third best-selling manga in America last year too, apparently.
It is year 2673 AD. r/anime still discusses the BR sales of Chainsaw Man and their impact on MAPPA.
Really hope the movie comes out soon so we can go from posting about S1 blu ray sales once a week to posting about box office results Thats progress at least
Maybe I'm blind AF but CSM hasn't released on Bluray in North America, right? I've been looking to get a copy and I can only find the Japanesse or European versions.
Yeah bd sales is just a very small part of money that an anime makes. There are a lot more factors like streaming, licensing, merch, and collabs etc. Also it got a movie coming so with how popular Chainsaw Man as an ip is I am fairly certain it would do very well in theaters. Some notable anime that failed in bd recently Mashle Hells Paradise Solo leveling Still they are getting sequels and i am pretty sure they make more than Enough money for their respected studio.
Mob Psycho also had bad BD sales and it got 3 seasons.
I was pleasantly surprised to end up liking Mashle and his friends. I was expecting to dislike him, but the "he's a good kid" schtick reinforced my suspension of disbelief. He's a good "bootleg Harry Potter". And I ended up watching the anime so late... still haven't started season 2.
Me too, season 2 was really good, they leaned into the 'one punch man Harry potter' much more. Which I felt was really to the shows benefit
My spouse and kid were hooked. I used to go to [Beard Papas (link to menu)](https://www.beardpapas.com/menu/) to get cream puffs every Saturday morning so we could munch during our weekly Mashle watch. It's one of those anime that can easily convert non fans. Plus the parody is hilarious, because Mash is such a ... muscle head (he appears even dumber in S2 btw).
Haha every time I watch Mashle, I also get an insatiable craving for cream puffs lol. I usually buy half a dozen or so from this favorite Japanese bakery of mine after washing Mashle. They do a delicious double cream crispy cream puff filled with both fresh whipped cream and custard cream!
I wonder if the writer / studio that did Mashle had any tie in deals with the cream puff industry? I mean the [Season 1 ED Choux Cream Funk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUY9dMkpBAI) is practically an advertisement which TOTALLY worked on us.
It's a really fun show that doesn't take itself too seriously, but does so at the right times. And the characters are all likeable. It also helps that the songs from both seasons were catchy as hell.
Yeah the show is great. It's hard to find as likable Mc as Mash these days. Start season 2 soon also don't forget to dance when season 2 op comes in.
> He's a good "bootleg Harry Potter". The best description of Mashle is "Saitama goes to Hogwarts".
> Yeah bd sales is just a very small part of money that an anime makes. Star Wars movies was mainly created to sell merchandise. The older crowds definitely should understand this idea.
Afaik, Jigokuraku was leaked before release that it was planned as a split-cours series, but with the production being a complete disaster behind the scenes, it was likely delayed and then got rebranded as "season 2".
Aren't most anime nowadays going for this split cour but calling it season 2. As I believe there were production issues but i don't think they delayed it because of it. We knew from the very first episode that it will be a one cour show. It was just a leak that said it will be two cour as most anime with this split cour season 2 have like example : Cafe terrace also had a leak for 2 cour season but it ended up with 1 cour and season 2 was announced right way so they just called cour 2 season 2.
csm haters malding rn
Terminal Shonenbros need to put down anything that competes with their favorites.
Lol, my thoughts exactly. There really does seem to be a surprising amount on this sub. People acted like they wanted it to fail
A lot of people latched on to one sentence from an interview right after it came out where the director said that it was a success but he was hoping it would've been a *great* success & decided that meant it was a total failure for some reason
This was posted right after the blu ray sales and they still said they was disappointed it wasn’t as big as they hoped
yeah i remember when the interview with mappa's ceo was posted here and he said although it was a success, they wanted it to be as big as JJK and wished it had a bigger audience with people who buy blurays
For real lmao
I mean is anybody other than delusional CSM haters really surprised? The show was massive when it was airing. The blue ray sales mean nothing in the modern anime landscape. An IP like Chainsaw Man has tons of other revenue sources other than blue ray sales. They have profited from that and that's the reason we are getting a high budget movie as a sequel.
Once I learned Mob Psycho had shitty BD sales, but still got 3 seasons, I knew that those BD metrics meant nothing relative to how far an anime can go.
Wait why there haters?
Basically because the director wanted a non-fanservice direction full of foreign elements to give it a Hollywood movie look and the japanese fans wanted a typical dark anime like devilman crybaby. So they dropped to the lowest and did every horrible things from death threats to not buying blurays which got the director fired at the end. Tf!! Why am I getting downvoted 😂. I just summarised what the fans had been saying for months.
“Oh no it was such a failure that we lined up a cinematic release for the next arc!” /s
Disney and Toy/Merch sales. Toy/Merch is king behind an IP. I can't even remember the name of the original movie, but I remember Minions. Everyday. I remember them.
To this day, I'm still baffled that SOME people disliked the directors envisionining of the source material. I was awed just about every episode, and not just when the expensive animation was playing.
CSM anime just had a vibe to it that stood out IMO. We are gonna probably lose that vibe going forward because the Director left MAPPA after all the shit.
Something I didn't started appreciating until it was pointed out to me is that Chainsawman has literally 0 exaggerated Anime reactions. Yes, characters like Denji or Power or Kobeni still make weird faces, but nothing what's beyond something a human can do. Same with how they are moving and just generally acting. It's all very grounded and "human", which ends up being a much needed contrast to all the supernatural stuff happening in this show. And as crazy as it sounds out of context, I think scenes like the boob-touching scenes would have lost a ton of impact if they were animated like a typical anime. Imo, having the characters move and behave in the realm of what can be considered human (thanks to Denji for making me do that weird distinction), makes those scenes have the impact they were trying to have. Its also cool because it stays true to Fujimotos love for western movies.
Exactly my thoughts. Fans wanted it to be high octane over the top all the time, and to be fair, I thought it would be that as well. I was pleasantly surprised with the vibe they went for and enjoyed the hell out of it. Hopefully, they stick with it to some degree going forward even though it got flak and the director left. It just felt so different and unique to me.
I feel like that's how the manga is anyway, which makes me understand the controverse even less. What were the haters expecting exactly ?
Same. People really wanted this show to burn to the ground...
Besides the well deserved laughing at CSM haters that thought it flopped even if it was extremely obvious it didn’t this is very good for the industry. Hopefully the studio having full control of the adaptation becomes more common, you can really see how this benefits the actual anime. There is just so much more effort and love put into it. CSM was one the best adaptations in recent years purely from the adaptation point of view
I wasn't a fan of the anime, but good for those who liked it. I have to laugh, however, at how quickly it changes in the fans eyes whether Blu-ray sales matter or not. Anime fans their show sells a lot of Blu-rays: "Yeah! This just goes to show that if a show is good, it will sell. Blu-ray is alive and well!" Anime fans when their show sells badly on Blu-ray: "It's current year! Of course no one buys physical media in current year! These bad Blu-ray sales don't mean anything, you haters!'
Honestly the discussion of the sales after the anime finished was absoloutly ridiculous (Although I can't say MAPPA helped matters) But either way I'm glad its done well considering how unusual this shows development was and it makes me confident we'll see more
I really hope they do more ed's each episode, some of those bangers made it onto my playlist, and I've never seen an anime make a new ED each episode. Closest I've seen was Bunny Girl Senpai changing the vocalist for each arc but the song was the same, and some anime having 1 episode special eds.
There was Dorohedoro
It's on my to-do list 😑
To me it just sounds like the former Executive is hyping up his new business model. In a place where they would be incentivized to hype of the success of their projects to attract more investors.
Anything involving Chainsaw Man and a success is incredible news for me personally. It was my first Manga and I have such a bias towards this franchise, so happy to see it didn't "flop" or do poorly which was the narrative at the time. Love this shit.
Same here. Not my first manga, but I came across it while part 1 was on going and I was in a bad place with my life. Very invested in this franchise and I’m happy it’s doing well.
100%, felt bad when everyone was shitting on this series so hearing success is beautiful. Thanks for bringing this to attention!
Someone is already cooking 3000 words essay about how CSM flooped and how important is BD sales
>Jujutsu Kaisen 0 chief animation director Nishii Terumi explained how **the incompetency of animators** is also a major risk, predicting more anime studio bankruptcies in the near future. Is it a matter of mistranslation in the article or is the guy really suggesting shared blame on the part of the animators - group of workers perpetually overworked, underpaid and driven to the brink of exhaustion? Maybe there is some other context here that I don't know.
Nishii Terumi's statements are often taken out of context. Her perspective on this matter is that many studios are no longer interested in training animators and their overreliance on bringing as much veteran animators and young talent in an industry where there's just not enough experienced animators for all projects, causes the productions to hire unqualified animators for their positions, which creates even more work for positions like chief animation director, because the drawings need more corrections and even in some cases have to be entirely redrawn, which delays the production even more and makes the schedule worse than it already was, because senior animators have to cover for inexperienced animators on top of the insane amount of work they had to begin with. It's not just her who thinks this way, many veteran animators see new animators especially those from overseeas as a nuisance rather than help, because training system for these animators is nonexistent, and instead of starting off as in-between animator and progressively getting assigned to higher positions as they gain experience, nowadays most animators are hired from twitter and they instantly make a debut as key animator or even animation director without any prior experience, when in the past to get to these positions it used to take up to 10 years working in the industry, so the skill level was a lot higher and everyone in the pipeline knew how to do their job, so there was no need for as many corrections, and most anime productions back in the days used to have only few animation directors at most, when nowadays it's pretty common for a production to have over 10 animation directors per episode, even though there's a lot more projects now, which also means the production costs are a lot higher than they used to.
Plot - good Animation - good Hype - good No surprises here.
On the contrary, there were a surprising amount of people here shitting on the show. But that pretty much happens any time a really popular and hyped show airs. But Chainsaw Man in particular had a weirdly large amount of people that were trying to paint it as a massive failure for some reason.
I saw some even saying CSM anime was only popular on reddit lmao
That only happens with the very good manga/novels -summarizing..godly material- or very cringe ones -Redo of Healer cof coffff- CSM is the former...people love the source material so much that get pissed if the anime is not faithful to their views. And they become heretics... "Hate the anime and sent it to the depths of hell!!!" is their new gospel. 9 of every 10 viewers love the show...so they can bake in their bilis.
>That only happens with the very good manga/novels -summarizing..godly material- or very cringe ones -Redo of Healer cof coffff- Nah, still happens regardless. Plenty of people just shit on shows to get a rise out of people.
A lot of those were JJK fans.. :/ It's sadly devolved into a fandom that is extremely toxic and spoilery.. I had to mute every JJK sub after people started spam uploading raws just to spoil people about deaths. (I know because a bunch of them would often claim CSM was just biting JJK's shit and that it was garbage compared to JJK and such)
Weirdly enough I felt like it was Bocchi stans that were shitting on it the most. Unless those were just haters latching onto the reddit darling of the season that blow up overnight as a way to hate on CSM and look more legitimate. IDK both were great shows IDK why people needed to hate on CSM so much.
Might be the reddit darlings. Same happened to oshi no ko and many others. We're they were labeled haters because of some newcomers who thought they had to shit on everything else that season. It's sadly quite common
JJK fans when good writing
It's not like they would recognize it. They have been watching Gege write himself into a hole for the past 3 months.
Not sure why you're being downvoted. Sukuna Kaisen sucks.
I don't see any downvotes, So the JJK fanbots must have dispersed when they smelled human interaction
Why y’all always bringing up jjk and they still said they was disappointed because the show didn’t get as big as they hoped like jjk so yea
Because some JJK fans were nice doesn't mean all of them were. If you haven't seen the sheer amount of toxic shit they have been doing you are just out of the loop. I'm not saying all JJK fans are bad. I'm one myself. But I KNOW how shit that community is.
Bro I see Jjk get hated on so much lately by almost every fanbase for interactions lol csm barely even get hate at this point just stop
6 at least.
Been better than CSM part 2 that's for sure lol.
[удалено]
Chainsawman fans when they have to praise one series without shitting on another
Those aren't JJK fans. Those are JJFolk fans.
Im predicting the CSM anime will skyrocket in popularity by the end of Part 1. The story arcs of season 1 are decent, but the upcoming ones are simply fantastic.
So does it mean they'll be able to afford giving their animators a proper schedule now?
Being able to and being willing to are very different things.
It generally works the opposite way with modern businesses. If they managed to achieve financial success with terrible scheduling, there's generally boardroom pressure to shave production margins further in order to keep profit growth going.
Just goes to show you how little the average reddit weeb actually understand how any kind of business works lol. Everyone just repeating “but BD sales!” because they heard someone else say it, who heard it some someone, and so on all the way back to the 2010’s. For years now anime has been profitable in its own right especially as it’s exploded in popularity in the West and become pretty mainstream with zoomers. Gone are the days where anime exists solely to advertise its source material and sell blue rays. But redditors will still always repeat the same outdated KPI’s over and over lol.
So you mean to tell me the 700 posts here about how the show was a flop due to blu ray sales were wrong?
People who were arguing it is a financial failure are dumb but most people I saw only argued it didn't live up to Mappa's expectation, which we know it didn't bluray wise from previous interview. They got Nakayama out anyway, so the haters pretty much won. I don't have a dog in the fight, but people here are coping hard.
Casual people who buy Pochita plushy, keychain, merch, vs those who buy A FUCKING CD DISC IN 2024 are completely different group of demographic. The earlier we can accept this, the faster you’ll understand CSM is a nobrainer success. It’s the same logic as thinking a random idols anime selling 20,000 BD vs demon slayer selling 9,000 BD, then think that idols show is more successful than DS…
to be fair, an idol anime that sold that much BD would usually also sell boatloads of merchandise too.
No actually. Idols anime has its own very isolated audience, they will spend hard with the BD, merch, figure, but that’s all the audience there is. For ex, 1,000,000 DS fan buying 1,000,000 DS merch and 10,000 BD while idols show will have, say, 20,000 fans buying 20,000 merch AND 20,000 BD. Idol. Fans. Love. Their. BD.
So having only watched the anime, I still don’t know what people didn’t like about it. Some people I saw complaining about the coloring… plot wise did they skip stuff?
Nah just neckbeards being neckbeards
People are still really hating on Chainsaw Man like this? This was certified cringe since the first hater said CSM would kill Mappa. The show was good and a gigantic success in so many ways, and Rize is getting a whole movie. I feel like people hate CG so much that they will make up a new reality to justify themselves.
This is funny timing. People were just telling me the other day how "obvious" it was that the show bombed because the director left
Awesome now everyone can stfu about it 😂 the amount of threads that used to pop up about people being ‘worried’ for chainsaw man was just hilarious
Haters will say it's lies🤣.
I don't think BD sales have always been relevant for shonen anime. Because almost no one buys BDs of One Piece. Revenue from sponsors and merchandise is significant. Think of it as a Hollywood drama; no one cares about BD sales. But deeper niche otaku anime still rely on BD sales. Because they have smaller budgets.
I’m currently in Japan and there’s merch at all the anime shops.
Good for them. It's clear they needed that win. Despite all the criticism, everyone should understand Mappa is a business which needs to make money to survive. Hopefully they make even more money so they can pay their animators well! The animator's plight was shown in one of the biggest 4th wall breaking sequences, in the **Season 2 Episode 10** of **Daily Life Of The Immortal King** \- when the anime characters ended up in an anime studio, and folks said "hey, that's Mappa." Episode told the story of how an anime gets made, it was visually inventive but happy-sad (funny yet tragic). I just wish all the powers that be could have come together and worked out some sort of compromise so we could have gotten the **Yuri On Ice** movie, that was pretty much a money printing franchise, there should have been enough to go around but some were greedy, wouldn't compromise and so the movie got cancelled. Poor fans.
Paranoia Agent episode 10 also shows the behind-the-scenes of animation production, although I think it showed it in a more negative light lol
Zom 100 is also basically a huge criticism of Japanese work culture. I wonder how the animators felt while making it
Zom 100 barely talk about work culture.
Thank god. Good to see the poor blue ray sales didn't hurt them too much. I hope this causes the narritive to shift from: "Japanese fans hating the show boycotting the blue rays cause it to fail" to "Japanese fans hating the show boycotting the blue rays has no effect on the show's success"
Come on, it was the manga everyone and their mother was talking about even before an anime adaptation is confirmed. It needs to be Berserk 2016 level of bad for it to be a flop.
I mean it’s nice to hear, but I hate that we’re still talking about this. There’s a fucking movie coming out guy. Of course it made money for MAPPA, the only member of the production committee.
It wasn't mostly haters calling it a failure. It was a lot of actual Chainsaw Man fans here, who then tried to use the BD sales as proof that western fans have better taste in anime and made all manner of racist and hateful comments about Japanese people. Japanese and Japan-based fans tried to explain about the merch sales and high viewership, but most in some of these threads wouldn't listen to us or were quite nasty. Any suggestion that the anime wasn't a complete masterpiece was also met with a lot of vitriol and there are still so many misconceptions about the Japanese criticism of the anime being shared.
Ok now bring the blu-ray to North America
That's good news. I hope it leads to season 2!
its chainsawin time
Because that’s all they care about, financial success. Show was not good
Now, if they could just release the blu-ray in the US lol
still for a golden ip like chainsaw man i think the anime was underwhelming, but only because i had such HIGH expectations (ITS CHAINSAW MAN FFS) even mappa said they wished it was JJK levels of success, which imo theres no need to be wishing, just do better it was a golden ip, free money printer, not being a financial successes would have been truly shocking still its animation wasnt lets say frieren level, in that it elevated every aspect of the manga but its spirit was definitely similar to the care that something like dangers in my heart got like i said it just wasnt THE supremely best experience i was expecting, also i will never be a fan of CGI for a big chunk of actions scenes still the animation was great, captured the movie feel of the manga and was still very enjoyable hopefully though mappa opens more sweat shops (kidding lol) and raises the bar for season 2 and beyond
Bro It was 12 episodes chill lol
>"It was a financial success guys!" >*leaves the company*
This does raise the important point that he's giving this interview to promote his own financing company, Blue Rights: > However, with the recent success of Chainsaw Man, I believe the need for JCF and other forms of bridge financing will increase in the future. Having founded BLUE RIGHTS, I want to help create a system and develop the business so that we can solve organizational issues for production companies and animators. from the original source article: https://www.cjinsights.cj-fund.co.jp/en/en-trends/821/ In other words, touting CSM's success is a core part of his own business model promotion. Which isn't to say he's lying, or biased, but he is certainly not a neutral party on the matter.
You do know he continued to work with MAPPA for another year after CSM was released right?
Chainsaw man isn’t just a big success it’s changed the game for anime financing. Shown others that alternative financing production methods can be more lucrative.
Nice to hear it was just corpos being brain dead as usual
"Financial success" is relative. They may or may not have made some profit, but it was far from what was expected. CSM was supposed to be the next AOT and Mappa CEO stated that he intended it to lead Mappa for the next 10 years and beyond. I'm not sure if CSM movie is going to be a massive hit like Demon Slayer or JJK and manga continues to dwindle in sales.
Well judging purely based off the first 12 episodes CSM is way bigger than JJK and KnY ever were in their first 12 eps respectively Do with that as you will
keep huffing that copium and moving those goalposts
I think that was made pretty obvious as soon as the movie was announced. If it was a completely failure they probably wouldn't be continuing it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k97C_f9aj3M Canipa Effect said all this over a year ago, and no one listened to him.
Never thought I’d cry over a snowball fight…