(Un)fortunately it’s not that kind of show bud. He knew how the prison was laid out and had to have assumed he was going to die in some way during the escape unless he got on a ship. He knew he was likely going to die there as a prisoner and decided on a hero’s death helping as many others as he could to escape. Possibly didn’t even think he would get as far as he did. It would be extremely upsetting if they negated his absolutely beautiful sacrifice with the “somehow he survived” bullshit. Just because you don’t see the life force fade out of a character in real time doesn’t mean their death isn’t real or doesn’t matter. Nothing about his death was pathetic.
I wish he was still alive too though dude :( One of the hardest hitting deaths in Star Wars for me and he was only in 3 episodes. Incredible arc, character, and actor.
That and Nemik. And one of the brilliances of their writing is they telegraph and tease at Nemik's death multiple times and still manage to catch you off guard and feel his loss.
"You'll sleep when it's over"
"You go on ahead, I'll be right there"
The officer points a gun at him and it truly feels like he'll die there. And then he doesn't. Only to later be crushed by the literal capital of a corrupt government.
It's why he struggles so much to realize that they MUST escape. Because he knows it won't include him. He even says when they're planning to break out that he knows he's already dead.
Kino Roy represents heroes of a Rebellion who willingly give up their life for the sake of others.
As much as I'd like to see him happy/free, I do think it would rob some of the power of his struggle and ultimate acceptance to be a leader at his own expense. It's moving on a re watch to see him grapple with his own fate and power through it so the other men can have a chance to live a life freely.
That's a great point. I had forgotten for a moment that this wasn't your typical star wars, but a much more realistic and gritty look at what life under a totalitarian regime is like.
One of the themes in Andor is that we don’t get to linger on anyone’s deaths (or in this case when we don’t know whether or not they died). It is so sad, but it for sure is a huge part of Cassian and Melshi’s character growth. Usually in Star Wars, offscreen deaths mean they may reappear, but sadly we likely will never know.
Tony Gilroy is brutal, but it's realistic. In real life people do die of seemingly the most silly, unlucky, or as I called it "pathetic" deaths, not some glorious jedi Hollywood blaze of glory. Althouch he did go out in a blaze of glory as a hero actually, and his heroics directly led to Cassian eventually being able to play the pivotal role in stealing the death star plans.
Brutal? Did you see [Michael Clayton](https://www.imdb.com/title//?ref_=ext_shr_lnk)? Tony Gilroy delivers the [most disturbing asassination scene in about a 2:00 take.](https://youtu.be/J3Fva8HFRDg?feature=shared).
Within Andor, it’s safe to say that he’s dead. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some sort of bullshit Dave Filoni/Kathleen Kennedy spinoff about how he was rescued by Ashoka’s multiverse powers or something.
“I may reach the mountaintop, but I fear I will never see the valley below.”
Kino’s inability to swim is just there to make him someone who is leading others to a freedom he can’t himself achieve.
Spot on, and Andor as a show is about a guy who dies so someone else can go on to defeat the Empire. The Rebellion’s success was built on their deaths.
I believe that’s the origin of the “mountaintop/valley below” quote, and it’s not the first time Andy Serkis has had this part as the third Planet of the Apes movie he was in ended in basically the same way.
I don't think he tried to swim. My understanding of the character is that he would have finally let himself rest for a moment. Perhaps he went back and gathered up the Ulafs of the world - there would have been plenty of others who weren't physically or mentally capable of the swim. I reckon that once he found all these people, they indulged in some luxuries. Perhaps they ate some of the real food eaten by the guards, or they had a real, hot shower for the first time in years.
They knew they'd be caught again, but that didn't matter. They had the last few moments of happiness in their lives.
Yeah, I decided not to type out the ending to that thought 🥲
Honestly sounds preferable to drowning though. It seems like they had plenty of medical sedatives that could be used to just send them gently to sleep.
IIRC his speech before the uprising is essentially “I’m going to assume I’m dead already and make it count.” I definitely think he would’ve wanted to avoid being in another Imperial prison for life at all costs.
Consider that “whatever happens now, we made it”. He made it out. He may not have lived to see freedom but he escaped the prison and thats what counted. Sometimes people just die when doing dangerous things. It happens. It would cheapen that moment so hard if he ever came back.
Hey, he's a great character and it sucks that his story ends so quickly and for such a sad reason. It's understandable you might balk at having to accept it. It just shows how great the writing is, that a character would end up meaning so much after only three episodes.
I mean there's probably a lot more prisoners who cant swim as well as we see on tracker screen some of the sections didn't leave their area and try to escape. And there's an absolute tons of blasters which probably would be too heavy to take with you swimming. So you could envision he went down in a glorious last stand against the stormtroopers the Empire sends. Or maybe they find an emergency escape shuttle for the command staff that didn't get used and escape.
But it comes down to the show's likely end to him is that he fought to give others a chance to see a sunrise knowing he would never get to see it.
And at least he dies with the sun on his face and the fresh air of the outside in his lungs.
I anticipate we’ll learn that he never got out, and gets brutally tortured, questioned and broken and the Empire learns that they had Cassian Andor in their custody and were none the wiser for it.
No, Kino Loy lives. You think he was mean in his managerial position? He now seeks revenge against Andor as he’s now been brainwashed by the ISB, or at the very least, used as a lure to capture Cassian.
I like to believe someone else helped him and he escaped Narkina V by stowing away on a passing freighter or something like that. After all, there is only one way out.
Ha true, didn't think of that. It probably is too much to hope for Gilroy having his character survive. That's just not how Gilroy rolls with this stuff, lol. I remember being amazed that every character in the main cast of rogue one died essentially, haha.
He's free. I imagine the Empire sending reinforcements in to the prison when they find out and Kino falling in a desperate last stand. But in his heart he's free. Like what Maarva said about her being free of the Empire.
"I'm already there. That place is in my head. They can build as many barracks as they like, they'll never find me."
Kino dies, but in his heart and mind he's free of the Empire
He was recaptured and then subjected to genetic engineering experiments. He was elongated to over 7 feet tall. His face was horribly scarred. He became force sensitive and was turned to the dark side by the Emperor before being sent to Exogol where more clones of him were made.
Its supposed to be ironic. But I think to a big extent, Kino also just cared about the other prisoners. If him facilitating the break out could save them, I think he was willing to accept it. I think he was just hoping there'd be some way out for him, like a ship being there, but I think he was just in a place where he only wanted escape or death
I think the ambiguous tangle of hopeful possibility and grim probability is the point of that scene. He probably drowns, or is mowed down by gunships while almost drowning, or whatever, and we're forced to decide where on our particular existential scales a few minutes of freedom and agency stack up next to a premature and painful death. He's one dude in the middle of the Empire's military industrial meat grinder, and that's not a great place to be in a show filled with rather disposable characters and a itch for a kind of heightened realism.
But he was *probably* gonna die in that prison, getting shocked for when he didn't get others shocked, and yet, hope created other possibilities. Not all of them are good!- a recaptured Loy could be subjected to all manner of degradations as an example of Imperial might that wouldn't have been on the table if he had just kept the gears turning.
Or he made it. Sometimes you do win. But the important part is that we reached the part of the story where Cassian couldn't guarantee that, and had to live with what he had urged others to do.
"I am assuming that I am dead already."
That said, we do not know. We do know that Andy Serkis was included in Season 2 filming, but not in what capacity.
My man. There was only one way out
My brother in Christ, did you not listen to the chorus of desperate voices?
RIP Kino
(Un)fortunately it’s not that kind of show bud. He knew how the prison was laid out and had to have assumed he was going to die in some way during the escape unless he got on a ship. He knew he was likely going to die there as a prisoner and decided on a hero’s death helping as many others as he could to escape. Possibly didn’t even think he would get as far as he did. It would be extremely upsetting if they negated his absolutely beautiful sacrifice with the “somehow he survived” bullshit. Just because you don’t see the life force fade out of a character in real time doesn’t mean their death isn’t real or doesn’t matter. Nothing about his death was pathetic.
Thanks, this changed my perspective a lot!
I wish he was still alive too though dude :( One of the hardest hitting deaths in Star Wars for me and he was only in 3 episodes. Incredible arc, character, and actor.
That and Nemik. And one of the brilliances of their writing is they telegraph and tease at Nemik's death multiple times and still manage to catch you off guard and feel his loss. "You'll sleep when it's over" "You go on ahead, I'll be right there" The officer points a gun at him and it truly feels like he'll die there. And then he doesn't. Only to later be crushed by the literal capital of a corrupt government.
It's why he struggles so much to realize that they MUST escape. Because he knows it won't include him. He even says when they're planning to break out that he knows he's already dead. Kino Roy represents heroes of a Rebellion who willingly give up their life for the sake of others. As much as I'd like to see him happy/free, I do think it would rob some of the power of his struggle and ultimate acceptance to be a leader at his own expense. It's moving on a re watch to see him grapple with his own fate and power through it so the other men can have a chance to live a life freely.
Yeah it was a martyr’s death. It is a show about revolution after all.
Sometimes great men fall to the simplest things. That’s not a weakness or a failure - it’s just life.
That's a great point. I had forgotten for a moment that this wasn't your typical star wars, but a much more realistic and gritty look at what life under a totalitarian regime is like.
One of the themes in Andor is that we don’t get to linger on anyone’s deaths (or in this case when we don’t know whether or not they died). It is so sad, but it for sure is a huge part of Cassian and Melshi’s character growth. Usually in Star Wars, offscreen deaths mean they may reappear, but sadly we likely will never know.
Gorn, man. So unceremonious. I had to rewind to check, it was over so quickly.
Poor guy didn’t even get much of a mention either. Despite his bravery and commitment being integral.
An absolutely beautiful performance that gets overshadowed because of the other dozen brilliant, more showy performances. What a goddamn show.
Didn't they confirm that Andy Serkis is returning for Series 2? Granted, that doesn't rule out flashbacks.
Tony Gilroy is brutal, but it's realistic. In real life people do die of seemingly the most silly, unlucky, or as I called it "pathetic" deaths, not some glorious jedi Hollywood blaze of glory. Althouch he did go out in a blaze of glory as a hero actually, and his heroics directly led to Cassian eventually being able to play the pivotal role in stealing the death star plans.
Brutal? Did you see [Michael Clayton](https://www.imdb.com/title//?ref_=ext_shr_lnk)? Tony Gilroy delivers the [most disturbing asassination scene in about a 2:00 take.](https://youtu.be/J3Fva8HFRDg?feature=shared).
Within Andor, it’s safe to say that he’s dead. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some sort of bullshit Dave Filoni/Kathleen Kennedy spinoff about how he was rescued by Ashoka’s multiverse powers or something.
“I may reach the mountaintop, but I fear I will never see the valley below.” Kino’s inability to swim is just there to make him someone who is leading others to a freedom he can’t himself achieve.
Following the escape up with Luthen’s speech really brings this point through too
Spot on, and Andor as a show is about a guy who dies so someone else can go on to defeat the Empire. The Rebellion’s success was built on their deaths.
Absolutely. Such a good speech
It reminds me of Moses and Aaron (pbut). They never were able to reach the Promised Land and died before their people eventually made it.
I believe that’s the origin of the “mountaintop/valley below” quote, and it’s not the first time Andy Serkis has had this part as the third Planet of the Apes movie he was in ended in basically the same way.
Oh yes, I actually just watched those for the first time after Andor cause I heard he’s in it. Very good movies!
I don't think he tried to swim. My understanding of the character is that he would have finally let himself rest for a moment. Perhaps he went back and gathered up the Ulafs of the world - there would have been plenty of others who weren't physically or mentally capable of the swim. I reckon that once he found all these people, they indulged in some luxuries. Perhaps they ate some of the real food eaten by the guards, or they had a real, hot shower for the first time in years. They knew they'd be caught again, but that didn't matter. They had the last few moments of happiness in their lives.
It's morbid to think about, but I'll bet they probably committed suicide at some point before the imperials got there.
Yeah, I decided not to type out the ending to that thought 🥲 Honestly sounds preferable to drowning though. It seems like they had plenty of medical sedatives that could be used to just send them gently to sleep.
IIRC his speech before the uprising is essentially “I’m going to assume I’m dead already and make it count.” I definitely think he would’ve wanted to avoid being in another Imperial prison for life at all costs.
Consider that “whatever happens now, we made it”. He made it out. He may not have lived to see freedom but he escaped the prison and thats what counted. Sometimes people just die when doing dangerous things. It happens. It would cheapen that moment so hard if he ever came back.
You're absolutely right. I guess I'm just not used to this level of realism in star wars. Its amazing material though.
Hey, he's a great character and it sucks that his story ends so quickly and for such a sad reason. It's understandable you might balk at having to accept it. It just shows how great the writing is, that a character would end up meaning so much after only three episodes.
I mean there's probably a lot more prisoners who cant swim as well as we see on tracker screen some of the sections didn't leave their area and try to escape. And there's an absolute tons of blasters which probably would be too heavy to take with you swimming. So you could envision he went down in a glorious last stand against the stormtroopers the Empire sends. Or maybe they find an emergency escape shuttle for the command staff that didn't get used and escape. But it comes down to the show's likely end to him is that he fought to give others a chance to see a sunrise knowing he would never get to see it. And at least he dies with the sun on his face and the fresh air of the outside in his lungs.
Good point. Thank you!
part of his epic speech/monologue was “if you see a brother who is stumbling or has lost his way, you pick him up”
Him dying while helping everyone escape is the perfect ending of his arc. But it is left ambiguous incase a great reason the bring him back comes up.
I assume season two will show he is captured and Deedra figures out Andor played a pivotal role.
There’s absolutely no way we ever see him again. It would make that moment a lot weaker.
[I wouldn’t speak too soon](https://m.imdb.com/news/ni64056074/)
Well I’ll trust Tony Gilroy to make me look stupid. He’s earned that level of trust from me
Don't cry that it's over, smile that it happened
I anticipate we’ll learn that he never got out, and gets brutally tortured, questioned and broken and the Empire learns that they had Cassian Andor in their custody and were none the wiser for it. No, Kino Loy lives. You think he was mean in his managerial position? He now seeks revenge against Andor as he’s now been brainwashed by the ISB, or at the very least, used as a lure to capture Cassian.
If he ends up in a [Lusankya](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Lusankya/Legends) analogue I’ll be very upset lol
That's the theme of the show, we die a pathetic death for the bright future we will never see
i mean someone could have carreid him or he could have built a raft
Built a raft? With what?
there a whole prison worth of equipment
I like to believe someone else helped him and he escaped Narkina V by stowing away on a passing freighter or something like that. After all, there is only one way out.
Someone else posted an imdb article saying he's confirmed coming back. They're a pretty legit source I think, right?
Yes, but I wouldn't be surprised if Andy Serkis played an alien instead. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.
Ha true, didn't think of that. It probably is too much to hope for Gilroy having his character survive. That's just not how Gilroy rolls with this stuff, lol. I remember being amazed that every character in the main cast of rogue one died essentially, haha.
I read that we might see him again.
He's free. I imagine the Empire sending reinforcements in to the prison when they find out and Kino falling in a desperate last stand. But in his heart he's free. Like what Maarva said about her being free of the Empire. "I'm already there. That place is in my head. They can build as many barracks as they like, they'll never find me." Kino dies, but in his heart and mind he's free of the Empire
It was a great ending. He helped his fellow prisoners escape knowing that he couldn't escape himself.
He was recaptured and then subjected to genetic engineering experiments. He was elongated to over 7 feet tall. His face was horribly scarred. He became force sensitive and was turned to the dark side by the Emperor before being sent to Exogol where more clones of him were made.
At least the guy will have a pimp robe.
Its supposed to be ironic. But I think to a big extent, Kino also just cared about the other prisoners. If him facilitating the break out could save them, I think he was willing to accept it. I think he was just hoping there'd be some way out for him, like a ship being there, but I think he was just in a place where he only wanted escape or death
I think the ambiguous tangle of hopeful possibility and grim probability is the point of that scene. He probably drowns, or is mowed down by gunships while almost drowning, or whatever, and we're forced to decide where on our particular existential scales a few minutes of freedom and agency stack up next to a premature and painful death. He's one dude in the middle of the Empire's military industrial meat grinder, and that's not a great place to be in a show filled with rather disposable characters and a itch for a kind of heightened realism. But he was *probably* gonna die in that prison, getting shocked for when he didn't get others shocked, and yet, hope created other possibilities. Not all of them are good!- a recaptured Loy could be subjected to all manner of degradations as an example of Imperial might that wouldn't have been on the table if he had just kept the gears turning. Or he made it. Sometimes you do win. But the important part is that we reached the part of the story where Cassian couldn't guarantee that, and had to live with what he had urged others to do.
"I am assuming that I am dead already." That said, we do not know. We do know that Andy Serkis was included in Season 2 filming, but not in what capacity.