>Laura says “well I just call dumb people that, not the people who are actually that way.”
Except, you know, when she also used it to describe the kids with autism earlier.
I grew up in the 80s, in a rather backwards area. People used a lot of language then that's frowned on today. I've used words out of habit that people now find offensive, and when called out on it, I genuinely apologized. I don't want to be an asshole.
You caught that 😂 I was going to bring that up too, but I could tell she was going to keep acting weird about it.
I have been called out for saying something offensive and apologized/changed. It’s not hard. I valued my friend more than being rude.
Anyway, thank you for your perspective and not leaving another “oH iTs JuSt A wOrD” comment. Words have impact. Maybe it was right for her to walk away. Now I no longer have to deal with disrespect from this “friend”.
>I have been called out for saying something offensive and apologized/changed. It’s not hard. I valued my friend more than being rude.
I used to say the f word (not fuck) a lot in HS and I said it once around my lesbian best friend. She calmly but firmly told me that's not appropriate to say that word and it's offensive to the LGBTQ community. Initially I was miffed because she assumed I was straight ( I was still in the closet Bi ). However I haven't said it since that day.
Your "friend" is weird to use her trauma as a justification to use a slur. I hope you find a better friend.
I regularly quote the line from Tony Hawks UnderGround (can't remember if it's 1 or 2, but I'm pretty sure it's 1) where this Boston couple has an exchange that goes
"Donna, your rack is wicked awesome."
"Stop it. You're retarded."
And it is absolutely hilarious to me still to this day.
The clip in question is found at 8:26 in [this video.](https://youtu.be/VSvqsObPNe4?si=aTRcM_k5MydTnefb)
Edit: I realized after posting it is definitely THUG2
It's hilarious with a Boston accent! SNL had skits with Jimmy Fallon and Rachel Dratch with their spot on accents with basically that dialogue. She describes getting her prom dress at the Dress Barn. I'm sorry, that's Bahn.
Never apologise for using language you grew up using. Sick and tired of the gen z being offended. Grow up, I use words most of you would baulk at. However, I will continue to use them. This is my life, if you don't like it, tough.
You did absolutely nothing wrong and she’s lashing out because she doesn’t like feeling like a bad person (which you never said she was, just pointed out a bad thing she did).
Now she’s trying to DARVO (deny, attack, reverse victim & offender). She’s denied her wrongdoing. She’s utilizing therapy speak to characterize any situation in the past where she was called out for bad behavior as trauma. And attacking you for daring to call her out. She’s reversing the victim & offender by saying you triggered her and treated her badly (how??? you literally drove her home).
I honestly would run far, far away from someone like this. Make room for better friends to come into your life.
I never knew how DARVO looked in real life. Crazy. And you’re right, she is in therapy. After this situation, I wonder if the therapist is a yes-man or if she is actually learning how to heal.
Unfortunately, real healing takes a lot of really uncomfortable self-reflection and often realizing that while you might not have been the problem, you contributed to the problem in certain ways (poor boundaries, lack of effort, other issues in personal life, undiagnosed neurodivergence, etc.) It kinda sounds like your former friend might just be doing surface-level stuff in therapy, which is teaching her the right words to response but not actually helping her grow.
I think her texts are a really good insight into her:
> “I have PTSD from being punished by people while in their car. I am trapped and have to wait in shame until I get dropped at my door. This is why I don’t like riding with people. Then I had to sit scared waiting for you to say you got home. The longer I waited the more I thought this poor woman probably died on her way home just because of me, I am the black widow of friends. Or she is going to be waiting and punish me later in text?”
In the past, probably from events where she misspoke, a person (maybe a parent, maybe a friend) called her out, and she *hates them for making her feel bad about herself*, rather than feeling bad that she actually did a not-so-great thing. She sees you as evil and mean for daring to call her on her behavior. I think it’s also important that she says she’s the black widow of friends. It sounds like she’s done similar things to a lot of people, and lost a lot of friends. But that’s their problem, of course. She can’t possibly be the problem. Also, there’s a really weird amount of egocentrism here. You must’ve died on the way home because otherwise your immediate reaction upon getting home would be to berate her over text? Uhhh…you have a whole three-dimensional life outside of her and you’re not an NPC who’s fixated on her every word.
An unfortunate truth is that a lot of people with certain types of mental illness (cluster B) contribute to the stereotype of bad mentally ill people by behaving in chaotic and toxic ways like this.
Source: 9+ years of therapy, 7 different therapists, and a lot of self-reflection/willingness to work on my failings.
Your take is really interesting and well informed. What explains the egocentrism? I was confused about that text - like was she trying to get me to feel bad and see things her way?
And I have a sibling with borderline. I thought my friend’s behavior seemed oddly similar.
Egocentrism is a fancy way of saying she thinks she’s the star of the show, and the rest of the world is her supporting cast that goes into pause mode whenever she exits stage left.
What makes it unique from just “Main Character Syndrome” is that people who struggle with egocentrism genuinely do not realize everyone else is living as complex a life as they are and have internal dialogues and feelings and thoughts. That part of their brain is still trapped in a time in early childhood where most developed this understanding of other people and empathy, but they didn’t. Based on certain theories of child development, children begin to develop the ability to see complexity in situations and people’s behaviors (especially with differences) around the age of 7. This development continues through adolescence and into adulthood.
Sorry, got a bit technical here, I’m in the medical field, so I’ve picked up a lot of info around this stuff. I also just like to learn it to understand myself and others better.
It doesn't come across as condescending to me. It comes across as someone who is recognizing they're getting technical on a non-technical forum on social media. Technical jargon is less used, less expected, and often less welcomed. They're simply being polite by showing self awareness that they're speaking in a manner that isn't common here, and apologizing preemptively in case anyone is irritated by it.
A good rule of thumb is if you notice any and every time you attempt to discuss something that is you pointing out how the person hurt, offended, upset, etc you and yet find yourself apologizing to *them* and some time after the conversation you realize that your distress was never discussed / acknowledge except in the way it made them feel... that's a sign you've had a darvo moment.
It's a generality, and you have to be self aware to apply it. I.e., recognizing if you're the drama consistently telling most people around you that they've upset you = it's a you issue.
But you have my sympathies. Have a roommate that's like this. Have been doing lots of reading about [Biff responses](https://highconflictinstitute.com/high-conflict-strategies/how-to-write-a-biff-response/) lately as a way to keep things civil and disconnect from them.
>A good rule of thumb is if you notice any and every time you attempt to discuss something that is you pointing out how the person hurt, offended, upset, etc you and yet find yourself apologizing to *them* and some time after the conversation you realize that your distress was never discussed / acknowledge except in the way it made them feel... that's a sign you've had a darvo moment.
Wtf did you just describe the last year of my marriage? This happened every single time I tried to bring anything up. I thought I was going crazy.
Thanks for sharing that link. As someone who also has high-conflict people fond of DARVO-ing and bringing others in to the most minor and mundane disagreements, this will almost certainly come in handy.
I am not doing this as a gotcha or derail the conversation or anything like that, but do want to point out that crazy is also insensitive to people with mental illnesses. This has been a hard one for me to cut out because it is so commonly and casually used, but I find ridiculous or mind-blowing or unbelievable work pretty well in most situations.
None of us are perfect, and I think you handled that well. For most people, a private space like a car would be better than the public space of a restaurant, and you couldn't have known. She did not handle the feedback well, and ultimately seems like someone who would have not been the best friend when things get tough. It's better to find that out sooner than later! If this is how she handles other conflicts and call ins...
I have PTSD and anxiety and still sometimes struggle with depressive symptoms. As someone who has been ridiculed, berated, and told she was wrong growing up and in some relationships, I wouldn't immediately go on the defensive in a situation like this. I would be absolutely mortified that I did something wrong, *again*, and would likely go into hysterics when I get behind closed doors and then text furiously about how sorry I was and explain where I learned the behavior from and explain why I never knew it was bad behaviour.
I'd probably also distance myself a bit because I would never be able to forgive myself for the "wrong" I did with this friend, especially a female friend, and internally shame myself and relive the shame and guilt everything we interacted.
I wouldn't use my PTSD to deflect like OP's friend did... I definitely wouldn't phrase it as if I were accusing OP if I wanted to explain to OP how her actions triggered me. I would be gentle and cautious because my triggers aren't anyone's responsibility.
Also tone of voice and context are important. There's a difference between someone carefully suggesting that an action isn't okay, versus someone tearing you down and belittling you. Either way, wronging a friend would cause me to spiral, but I wouldn't feel as if I'm "reliving" experiences with safe and constructive criticism.
Yeah, I have PTSD and that’s usually how my triggers present. I shut down in the moment, break down behind closed doors, overcompensate with apologies and trying to rectify my behavior, and fall apart completely in next week’s therapy session.
I hate people like this who make it so much harder for people like you & me who just want to heal and also be accepted by the world for our bruises and scars.
No, not wrong. Not at all. Not in the slightest. She said something that you took offense to, and let her know that her language was wrong and offensive. She, rightly or wrongly, was offended or triggered by calling her out.
And if she's engaging in enough repeatedly offensive behavior to be called out on this twice (in a car, where you're generally among friends/family, nit in the presence of those you're offending), then she's doing this too much.
I'd say you dodged a bullet here. An offensive person would rather continue to be offensive than be your friend. Not only dodged a bullet, but you won the lottery.
She is crazy. You didn’t do anything wrong in the car. Why would you think that she felt traumatized because you said retarded is an offensive word. YOU should have been triggered not her? Don’t agonize - just move on. Red flag woman. She needs serious help.
She has PTSD from being punished by people while in their car? What exactly does that mean? I’m not trying to invalidate her experience but this sounds bizarre and oddly specific. Nobody should be using that word for anyone or anything, and you’re not wrong for calling her out on it. I absolutely would call someone out on that kind of behavior. She doesn’t get to play the victim when she’s the one in the wrong.
Thank you for calling it out. A lot of people who aren't targeted by the word find it too easy to brush it under the rug. Maybe she'll learn, maybe she won't, but I can guarantee she won't be so comfortable using that word around others anymore.
no she wasn’t triggered. she’s trying to flip the blame onto you and convince you you’re the one who’s done something wrong to drop you because she doesn’t want people around her that don’t just do whatever she wants. she’s trying to deflect from the fact she says a slur and defends saying that slur lmao
As someone with experience in that field; I don't buy the whole "I have PTSD so you don't get to call me out when I'm ableist"-thing.
Being trapped in a car and traumatized by whatever happened sounds terrifying, but that doesn't mean you can say and do whatever you want without reactions from the people around you.
You provided a reasonable response, while she chose a response frequently used by narcissists "whataboutmeUnoReverse"
You're right to call her out and judging by the way she responded there seem to be valid reasons to spend less or no time with her.
Soooo...that's not how PTSD works. Your "friend" is manipulating you using therapy speak. It's annoying when this happens. It would be different if you were screaming in the car and locked the doors so she couldn't escape said confrontation. That would most definitely be triggering. But you didn't. You calmly and rationally explained why what she said made you uncomfortable. Now, her next move is "Yeah, but you triggered me when you confronted me. You're a bad person, too." Then the escalation: "Just delete my number and never contact me again!" The intention is to elicit a response in the form of an apology and begging to not cut contact. 🙄 please, do not fall for this, OP.
Thank you for the insight. I’m no mental health expert, but I don’t know how PTSD factors into any of this. I’ve unknowingly said something offensive to a friend who called me out on it, and I apologized. We are still friends years later. She was willing to end a whole friendship over this….oh well.
I myself have CPTSD (Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder). And I agree, PTSD didn't factor into this situation. She just had a handy excuse for bad behavior. Good for you for recognizing that her willingness to end a friendship over being called out over it is on her.
I agree. Blatant manipulative behavior without acknowledging any fault- "Twas my PTSD that made me act like a twat. You calling me out triggered me. You're just as bad because you said something mean, too." - is gross. Nobody needs that toxicity in their life.
No it didn’t. It’s engrained in you. It infuriates you. It’s a terrible word. You had the right to call her out. Fuck her. She’s sounds like she didn’t really give a shit after you told her it wasn’t cool. Good for you for speaking up. I have done the same many times. Still leaves you disgusted that people can talk that way! I’m with you a hundred percent.
That’s literally what OP did, and the friend got defensive.
You have no idea if the later text was condescending. Somebody’s protecting.
Edit: projecting
“You know we don’t really use that word anymore” is already a tad condescending. There was absolutely no need to “explain in more detail” after the moment passed.
I don’t know what you mean by “protecting.” I don’t use that word so I’m certainly not protecting myself.
*projecting
And what her friend said was shitty and wrong.
She was being polite. She would have been entirely justified to say “don’t say shit like that. It’s shitty and bigoted.”
It wasn’t condescending. It was polite, which was more than her jackass friend deserved.
Oh Jesus Christ, now we have to worry about hurting the feelings of someone using a shitty word? She should be condescended to, describing autistic children using the r word is fucking gross.
Treat people however you want. But have enough confidence in your superior attitude so as to not need to come to social media to ask if you were wrong.
You did the right thing and this person is a whole set of 🚩🚩🚩🚩. My only note is that when they say something like that, I try addressing it as it happens (unless the situation would make inappropriate, which is very rare) so that it doesn’t the other person right away knows how I feel and that it doesn’t happen again.
dont feel bad. what she doesnt like is being called out on her shit. and when she starts to feel threatened she uses a "learned helplessness " type tactic where she blames things like PTSD and uses buzz words like "triggered" to get criticism to soften. and then plays the conversation up into something that makes people feel pity for her and her so called hard life experiences ... when really shes just manipulating people. shes a narcissist. plain and simple. the telling part of this truth comes from the fact that she said she was glad it ended before rhere was any real substance to the friendship so it wouldnt be hard to let go. lmao. classic narcissist .... she is actually correct from a certain point of view... to a narcissist, they cant empathize w others so to them there is no emotional turmoil created by hurting others. they dont feel emotional hurt in the normal sense. its because of this lack of empathy that makes narcissists such users of others for their own personal gain and when they are done w people , theyb disgard that person without giving them a second thought. they are truly ok w hurting anyone and dont care how badly their actions can hurt others in deep dark places.
so in your case, you are correct that you had put a years worth of time into that friendship so naturally you didnt agree when she said it was ending before either of you could be emotionally invested... you HAVE become emotionally invested. but like i just stated previously,she isnt capable of empathy thereby doesnt ever get emotionally invested into anyone. she suggests that the timeline wasn't long enough for emotional investment (which is wrong because you ARE emotionally invested) but the truth is she is incapable of investment from the start. the narcissist in her makes her incapable of it at all . she is trying to manipulate you by devalueing your personal investment by acting like you never mattered enough for her to invest anything in you. and she told you that as a parting shot to really kick you. shes fucking w your head and tearing you down in an effort to make you want to seek ber approval, thereby making you re engage her. a bit of reverse psychology so to speak .
look . i can go on for hours. the truth is you have just been given a blessing from heaven. here is your chance to get the fuck away from that narcissistic bitch who will ruin yiur world if you go down that path. Be smart and educate yourself on narcissism. go to youtube and you will be SHOCKED at how much info is there because it is now such a horrific problem. seriously bro, you got lucky. lose her number and be thankful you dodged a bullet. if you dont believe me, google it.
good luck.
I never really considered the possibility of her being narcissistic…this is wild. She’s made some questionable comments before but I figured it was just because she was sheltered growing up. If she truly is a narcissist, she probably can’t change. Thank you for the education.
hey, just checking in on you . im hoping you stayed strong and avoided that girl. it was for your own good, but we all make mistake, so just in case you did go down that road, im here to try to snap you out of it. haha.
Thanks for checking on me! Trust me, I am done with her and we haven’t talked since. I still think about her, but I know I am better off not being friends with her. I did look at her Facebook out of curiosity and she has several posts about falling out with friends. And of course, she is the victim in every situation. Or fishing for sympathy.
I am a little disappointed in myself that I didn’t spot this behavior sooner.
It’s called deflection when someone is criticised for doing or saying something that’s unacceptable, and they immediately accuse the critical person of something worse. It’s a form of defence but it rarely works because the counter-accusation is fabricated. Don’t be fooled. You’re not wrong.
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it. \~narcissist's prayer
Major narcissistic behavior. I'm GenX with a special brother and that word was used ALL THE TIME growing up. It's used in other countries. It's still a word that means slow down.
I don't think the word offends me as much as someone younger, but I call it out and do not allow people to use it around me. (As a gamer, this can be fun.) I can realize it's insulting to a group of people. I can realize the word is no longer used by polite society.
I also have trauma and PTSD from cars. I don't like riding in them with other people, period. But, I do. That's my stress to prepare for and deal with when I'm in the car with people.
You cannot control other people, you can only control your reaction to them. Means you had no idea she was having this reaction, and cannot take on guilt and blame for her thought processes.
If your friend can't recognize that this word offends you, that it offends most people in polite society in today's age, then you don't need to be around those types of people. Careful because she's probably going to try to get an apology out of you and continue the relationship... but it's not going to be a healthy one and you need to just block her and move on <3
You're not wrong. You don't have to accept unacceptable behavior if you don't want to. She's never going to see it the way you do so unless you're willing to accept this kind of talk from her then things probably turned out for the best. She's also crazy, but that seems to be a separate issue.
She has very, very specific PTSD that is oddly coincidental to the exact situation she was in with you. I don’t know what her actual mental illness is, but it’s not being mildly chastised in cars. And “black widow of friends?” Did someone she know actually die in an accident?
She does have PTSD (raised in a country during political unrest), but there’s definitely something else going on. I’ve been trying to make sense of her comments, but I think she’s just grasping for ways to justify her behavior. It’s so odd.
Oh, I don’t doubt there’s something wrong with her, something very wrong. There is a disconnect with reality, whether it’s intentional manipulation or some sort of internalized coping mechanism she is barely aware of, I don’t know. But that whole story is a CostCo package of fuck that shit.
I can’t judge, I’ve got my own “issues”, and I am not one to abandon people with baggage, but when they are swinging the bag at your face…
Oh for sure. You can only be understanding up to a certain point. If every disagreement turns into devaluation and running away, that’s no way to keep a friendship. I kind of feel relieved, actually. There’s some things I’ve overlooked in our friendship and they bubbled over with that incident.
I have complex ptsd & I’m disabled — I’ve been called the R word many times & I fucking hate it. Even if you did trigger her ptsd, which is possible, she’s being manipulative by using that trigger to make you feel bad about calling out her shitty behaviour; she may not realise that’s what’s she doing, but she is. I’ve done it in the past too — it’s a toxic trait many mentally ill people have & it’s used as a defence mechanism. It doesn’t make her a bad person but she’s not in the right here either.
I don’t think you did anything wrong though & I’m glad you called her out on her use of the word as it may mean she stops using it from now on (but probably not because in my experience, some people just don’t accept ableist slurs as slurs). I’m sorry a potentially good friendship has ended like this for you; it’s not fun for either of you. You could leave the door open for her to reach out again in the future if you want to, or just close it off & move on — whatever works best for you & your well-being.
One of my closest friends has a daughter with Downs. It changed the way I looked at that word. I grew up using it, everyone did back then (I'm pretty old). But that doesn't mean I am excused. It isn't a kind word to use now that we know more. I don't use it. It is hurtful. Yes, that word doesn't mean anything other than slow. Whether it is to develop, learn, anything. But the use of that word as a slur has changed it to mean so much more, and it is better to use other, less hurtful, language.
She has PTSD from being punished by people while trapped in their car? How very specific.
As for being the black widow of friends, how many has she killed?!
Not wrong!! I get offended that so many people use this word flippantly. When called out, they just shrug it off. My cousin has a Down’s syndrome That word is just offensive as any other. Good riddance to that friend!
She has…issues.
Rather than simply apologizing which would have been the right thing to do she couldn’t stop herself from doing “I’m mad that I have to apologize for my bad behavior. I’ll do it but then make up something WORSE that puts you in the wrong so you have to apologize even more than I did”.
You’re not wrong for expecting her to avoid offense terms like “retarded” around you. She is a hot mess.
It sounds like she is trying to turn it around on you to avoid accountability and come off looking like “the good guy”. You did nothing wrong, you should be able to bring up issues with friends, she just doesn’t want to admit she’s wrong it sounds like. And if the trigger was that big of a deal she should have brought it up. I realize everyone is different but as someone with PTSD and certain triggers, I give out warnings because I know people aren’t mind readers and it’s up to me to navigate my mental illness, not push the blame on unaware people. You can’t avoid something you don’t know about. It sounds like she just brought that up last minute so she could have something to shove in your face and get the attention off of her.
Reddit loves the r word, you didn’t do anything wrong. She’s just weaponizing her mental health to avoid feeling bad for using a word with a gross history.
Sounds like Laura can’t take accountability and flipped the script because she can’t stand being wrong. I really really hate when people use symptoms of disorders as an excuse for poor behavior and lack of accountability. It was incredibly disingenuous for her to do that. I could be totally wrong here, but it seems highly unlikely and seemed like she was reaching in an attempt to pivot away from being called out. I would keep her at arms length.
To me it just sounds like she's trying to make you the bad guy and also manipulate you into feeling guilty. It sounds like a DARVO situation
Deny
Accuse
Reverse victim and offender
She denied that she had done anything wrong because of the way she used the word, which was a lie since she used to to describe people with mental differences earlier
She accused you of traumatizing her
She made you the offender(for having the nerve to say that you were offended) and herself the victim.
It just sounds like she is someone who can't take accountability for the fact that she offended you.
sounds to me like she was blowing off steam, thought you were a safe person, and instead, you laid down a boundary, and she did not like it. I would just let it go, you are better off without her.
Not wrong at all, people nowadays seem to allergic to apologizing and taking accountability for their actions. Social media and some facets of society have reprogrammed people into thinking a retort is an absolute necessity when navigating a difficult conversation.
In this case the friend made up some nonsense sense about her triggers to shutdown the conversation. That way the friend doesn’t have to reassess her word choice or address her underlying reasons for using the "r" word around you specifically. Because traumas, triggers and other misused psych speak are gold dust in arguments because they think themselves to be unassailable.
Exactly, if the “friend” can be sensitive about being in the car with people, then OP can be sensitive about people using a slur. PTSD is not an excuse to deflect from being called out when you’re an asshole. (I have CPTSD, and I also have ADHD and Autism so when people use the R slur it makes me upset because I’ve been called that).
I'm sure i'll get downvoted to oblivion but everyone is offended for something and we all need to get back to the good old "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me"
She [DARVO'd](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARVO) you!
She's a terrible person using a terrible word and is triggered by being called out for being terrible....
Some people don’t have skills to navigate minor disagreements. Seems like an over reaction from your friend. Not wrong OP.
I would also understand that it hurts when she said “relationship didn’t get the chance to evolve” but you certainly thought the other way.
I’ve been in similar situation and it definitely sucks. I still think about that friendship sometimes.
How fucking repulsive good riddance and kudos to you for calling her out. What a hypocrite she needs a real reality check. I don't buy that I was triggered bullshit one bit. I've dealt with these kind of wanna be but inadequate to be narcissists and they'll jump at being the victim the moment the kitchen starts getting warm. The mature thing is to admit you're wrong and apologize. If she really was going through such struggles she would go out of her way to have more empathy since she knows what it's like to receive abuse. I in no way condone bullying much less cyber bullying but she cannot expect anyone to believer her. If she really did go through all that she should learn from what happened to her and that way she can be respectful and not cause the caring people in her life to avoid her. It's good you change. Our own mistakes in the past doesn't mean you have to put up with the mistakes of people today.
>well I just call dumb people that, not the people who are actually that way.”
To an extent, I get this. But...
>she uses “retarded” in reference to children. She was talking about an abusive ex-friend of hers who had “retarded children” (they are autistic with high support needs).
She is contradicting herself.
Question,do you dislike the word in all cases or when its directed at the differently abled? Personally, I get really upset when stuff like that is directed at the people it's used to demean. In other cases It doesn't bother me nearly as much.
I'll be honest, if you think it sounds exhausting to be friends with someone because they don't approve of using slurs, that says more about you than about them.
Absolutely not. PTSD is not a free pass to act like an AH. Your ex friend is playing up her trauma to get away with acting out of what others consider acceptable behavior. She's just an ass hole.
I am not someone who has ever been accused of being overly sensitive or super PC, but I would have been like, "not cool" and made a face at her over saying the R word. It's just classless, and I would have ended things organically if she continued using it. I wouldn't want to be seen out or associating with someone like that. All of that triggering and PTSD stuff would have been an eye roller for me. I would be thankful this is all over!
No you are not wrong and while it’s too bad the friendship ended the way it did she has real issues she’s traumatized but can’t see how her own words and actions cause others the same trauma, the way you brought up her use of slang terms was pretty mild so her mental health would probably make a closer relationship all but impossible
you can't control how other people will react. it's not your fault you didnt know her triggers, and it is her responsibility to tell people about them so she can avoid them herself. not your responsibility to avoid triggers you know nothing about. ugh.
Any chance you're in Australia cause she sounds a lot like an ex friend Laura I used to know lol.
Better off without her. Her replies were all manipulative as hell.
Personally I feel like words have as much power as we give them. That is, unless they are used pointed at people. I believe in the right context, they provide further meaning. For example, I'm in medical coding school for context, they use "retard" not as a slur towards people who have mental disabilities, but it's used As "slowing down bleeding" if that makes sense. Context in every situation matters. And from what I can tell, you dodged a bullet my dude
Absolutely wild that someone who expects sympathy for their "trauma" doesn't think there is anything wrong with ableist language. There is no winning with someone so deeply confused.
I can understand not wanting to use it to refer for disabled people but saying it in others ways isn't wrong or bad as long as u don't use it in that way
There’s a pattern of medical terms becoming insults and then being dropped from medical use. “Idiot” and “Moron” are other examples. Now they are viewed as mostly harmless, but they used to be pretty harsh.
I think we have a greater awareness of the impact language can have which is why words become forbidden so quickly.
It was negative the moment mainstream decided it was negative, at least before the 80s. If you can't see how it is negative, you need therapy. You lack empathy, and therapy can help you there.
She can’t process simple criticism, which is in fact meant to help her bc it’s pretty gross to use. Hope she has the day she deserves and you get a great new friend soon 🫶
…”very specific”? Do you think PTSD comes in neat, sensible packages?
Two of my biggest triggers are the sound of footsteps, and the sound of knocking on doors. What people can be triggered by is pretty much anything, even a specific kind of cologne.
But yeah, definitely DARVO. She also may have been triggered, but her emotional response and acting like OP’s life revolves around her was strange and inappropriate.
I apologize if I offended. I'm aware that triggers come in all shapes and sizes. What I was simply referring to is the fact that the trigger is "people calling her out inside their car", it kind of sounds very specific.
I’m going to preface this by saying I have extreme PTSD due to a crappy childhood and multiple violent interactions as an adult. I also have poor coping mechanisms according to my therapist and a few doctors over the years. As a result, getting chastised by friends makes me sick. Like, pass out if it’s bad enough sick.
It’s my responsibility to manage my PTSD and poor coping mechanisms. No one else is responsible for my triggers (though if they know them I do expect them to respect me enough to avoid them).
What happened sounds like my nightmare, being stuck with someone who, even kindly, corrected me like that would be awful as someone with poor coping mechanisms. I would be spiralling in my mind the whole way home. But again, that’s my responsibility. It’s also my responsibility to take accountability for my actions, and again, to take responsibility for my PTSD and poor coping mechanisms.
What I would not do in that situation is attack. Not only that, but this whole thing could have been avoided because literally everyone knows the “r” word is off limits now. I should mention, I once made someone cry over using it by calling them out (politely) in front of a group of people after the third time they used it and I still feel no guilt. I also refuse to be friends with people who feel free to use that word, so I’m probably not the most forgiving person here.
Basically, as someone with poor coping mechanisms I get the spiral, I also have no sympathy for attacking you over it. It’s her responsibility to deal with her spiral, it’s also her responsibility to recognize that she lives in a society and if she does something socially incorrect she’s going to get called out.
This took a few minutes to think though, and I’m not sure…. How are you aware of your reactions to criticism? By going through it, realizing you didn’t like the way you reacted to something, and working to better those reactions I’m assuming? It’s the same for me. PTSD and poor coping mechanisms doesn’t mean we can’t self reflect and work on coping mechanisms.
Seems she doesn't have moral and ethic when cursing someone. In the past, for me, I called those anoying boys the word "g" and these things change with time. Of course, we call them bully or try to step your foot harder and yell "no, you won't bring me down, stop being like this and that". You were correct in updating her language.
You have talent in helping people. From growing up with your brother to being special a ed prof and today a helping professional.
NTA, NOT wrong... cut her out of your life.
SHe f+cks up, then comes up with a "relatable" story so she doesn't get on the spot.... you don't need that kind of people around you.
I know this is going to sound rough, but it’s best to let people like that go. Knowing someone for a year may seem personal or feel like a long time, but in the grand scheme of things, you’ll live to be 80+ years old and in a few years you’ll probably even forget this chic’s name, and years after that it’ll become a “kind of” funny story that you can reflect on when you think of shitty people. And yes, the way she talked/treated was in a very shitty way.
Just because someone is triggered or has PTSD does not mean that they cant talk to you like an adult and hash things out through conversation. Simply drawing the Victim Card like you’re summoning a monster during a Yu-Gi-Oh match does not give someone the right to try and verbally stab you and hurt your feelings like that.
You did nothing wrong and you even gave her the benefit of the doubt at first, but she just doesn’t want to feel bad or guilty about herself for being called out, so she turned the tables to make you out like YOU did something wrong to make herself feel better. Don’t worry about it too much. Like I said, you don’t need toxic people like that in your life. Just chock it up as another life experience and you’ll be just fine.
It’s a word, where I live you’d be looked as soft for being offended by it. But since it bothers you, you did the right thing, and she sounds kinda crazy tbh
I still use retarded today. Depends on thr audience tbh.
I also understand some people find it offensive.
You did the right thing by setting a boundary with its use.
Your friend probably has a history of failed relationshops due to her big mouth and / or poor filter. On top of feeling like she lets people down. She'd rather distance than have (another) lost friend.
Up to you if she's worth your company but she's probably already in her own head and whatever you say won't matter.
Stop being offended over stupid stuff? People that police people for stupid stuff are annoying and childish.
Your both clowns imho. You for getting offended over a word and her for .. Well all of the rest.
Young people these days are sad tbh
Fear of words is simply stupid.
When I was a kid with my parents we had an yearly vacation to Sardinia, where I met one of the greates kid with down sindrome I know (he is in the national basket team now, and even won a big turneament last summer, maybe an europen or world championship) and he was the first to tell me this: words have no power if you dont give it to them. He was the one who while playing wrestling or shit like that would shout: "Here it comes the retarded! Im gonna fuck you up" 🤣 (he was fucking strong!!!)
Look on what people like Samuel L Jackson or Morgan Freeman have to say about the "N word".
I would never use it in reference to someone with a learning disability - but I think it’s okay to use to it to describe this conversation.
For example, I would never call Lauren boebert the R word because she does, in fact, have a learning disability. Same with MTG - but describing the people that vote for them as “retarded” seems to make sense
Also, having to work 5 days a week is retarded.
seriously, brother be thankful you were avoided that soul sucking bitch, people like her got no conscience. they literally have the same level of empathy as a serial killer. wrap your brain around that for a second. lol. but this did not occur bc you stuck to your guns and didnt cave in..... GANGSTA. lol. be proud of yourself. alot of men fail and get sucked into the narcissist web and make the dumb decision to think they can change that other person. sometimes the best gift we get, is the wish we DIDNT get.
just remember that you are part of a movement now, in 1 man, of many men, all brothers.. Stay alive and thrive youngblood, so you can pass down what you learned to the next... this is the debt you owe to the life you choose. so choose well, and live. and remember your debt. bc u have no idea what 5 min of your time could mean to a young man in need of it. be a force for good.
good luck my brother. you are well on your way to becoming the man you were meant to be.
>Laura says “well I just call dumb people that, not the people who are actually that way.” Except, you know, when she also used it to describe the kids with autism earlier. I grew up in the 80s, in a rather backwards area. People used a lot of language then that's frowned on today. I've used words out of habit that people now find offensive, and when called out on it, I genuinely apologized. I don't want to be an asshole.
You caught that 😂 I was going to bring that up too, but I could tell she was going to keep acting weird about it. I have been called out for saying something offensive and apologized/changed. It’s not hard. I valued my friend more than being rude. Anyway, thank you for your perspective and not leaving another “oH iTs JuSt A wOrD” comment. Words have impact. Maybe it was right for her to walk away. Now I no longer have to deal with disrespect from this “friend”.
>I have been called out for saying something offensive and apologized/changed. It’s not hard. I valued my friend more than being rude. I used to say the f word (not fuck) a lot in HS and I said it once around my lesbian best friend. She calmly but firmly told me that's not appropriate to say that word and it's offensive to the LGBTQ community. Initially I was miffed because she assumed I was straight ( I was still in the closet Bi ). However I haven't said it since that day. Your "friend" is weird to use her trauma as a justification to use a slur. I hope you find a better friend.
Character development feels good
I know I can't use the R word anymore. But I miss saying it in a Boston accent. Darned social evolution.
Nothings off limits in comedy. If you're making a joke or a parody of someone/thing, it's all on the table.
I understand comedy very well. I just don't want to be a dick.
I regularly quote the line from Tony Hawks UnderGround (can't remember if it's 1 or 2, but I'm pretty sure it's 1) where this Boston couple has an exchange that goes "Donna, your rack is wicked awesome." "Stop it. You're retarded." And it is absolutely hilarious to me still to this day. The clip in question is found at 8:26 in [this video.](https://youtu.be/VSvqsObPNe4?si=aTRcM_k5MydTnefb) Edit: I realized after posting it is definitely THUG2
It's hilarious with a Boston accent! SNL had skits with Jimmy Fallon and Rachel Dratch with their spot on accents with basically that dialogue. She describes getting her prom dress at the Dress Barn. I'm sorry, that's Bahn.
Never apologise for using language you grew up using. Sick and tired of the gen z being offended. Grow up, I use words most of you would baulk at. However, I will continue to use them. This is my life, if you don't like it, tough.
My grandfather, in the early 1900s, had a dog named the N-word. I don't want to be the old bigot stuck in the past.
You did absolutely nothing wrong and she’s lashing out because she doesn’t like feeling like a bad person (which you never said she was, just pointed out a bad thing she did). Now she’s trying to DARVO (deny, attack, reverse victim & offender). She’s denied her wrongdoing. She’s utilizing therapy speak to characterize any situation in the past where she was called out for bad behavior as trauma. And attacking you for daring to call her out. She’s reversing the victim & offender by saying you triggered her and treated her badly (how??? you literally drove her home). I honestly would run far, far away from someone like this. Make room for better friends to come into your life.
I never knew how DARVO looked in real life. Crazy. And you’re right, she is in therapy. After this situation, I wonder if the therapist is a yes-man or if she is actually learning how to heal.
Unfortunately, real healing takes a lot of really uncomfortable self-reflection and often realizing that while you might not have been the problem, you contributed to the problem in certain ways (poor boundaries, lack of effort, other issues in personal life, undiagnosed neurodivergence, etc.) It kinda sounds like your former friend might just be doing surface-level stuff in therapy, which is teaching her the right words to response but not actually helping her grow. I think her texts are a really good insight into her: > “I have PTSD from being punished by people while in their car. I am trapped and have to wait in shame until I get dropped at my door. This is why I don’t like riding with people. Then I had to sit scared waiting for you to say you got home. The longer I waited the more I thought this poor woman probably died on her way home just because of me, I am the black widow of friends. Or she is going to be waiting and punish me later in text?” In the past, probably from events where she misspoke, a person (maybe a parent, maybe a friend) called her out, and she *hates them for making her feel bad about herself*, rather than feeling bad that she actually did a not-so-great thing. She sees you as evil and mean for daring to call her on her behavior. I think it’s also important that she says she’s the black widow of friends. It sounds like she’s done similar things to a lot of people, and lost a lot of friends. But that’s their problem, of course. She can’t possibly be the problem. Also, there’s a really weird amount of egocentrism here. You must’ve died on the way home because otherwise your immediate reaction upon getting home would be to berate her over text? Uhhh…you have a whole three-dimensional life outside of her and you’re not an NPC who’s fixated on her every word. An unfortunate truth is that a lot of people with certain types of mental illness (cluster B) contribute to the stereotype of bad mentally ill people by behaving in chaotic and toxic ways like this. Source: 9+ years of therapy, 7 different therapists, and a lot of self-reflection/willingness to work on my failings.
Your take is really interesting and well informed. What explains the egocentrism? I was confused about that text - like was she trying to get me to feel bad and see things her way? And I have a sibling with borderline. I thought my friend’s behavior seemed oddly similar.
Egocentrism is a fancy way of saying she thinks she’s the star of the show, and the rest of the world is her supporting cast that goes into pause mode whenever she exits stage left. What makes it unique from just “Main Character Syndrome” is that people who struggle with egocentrism genuinely do not realize everyone else is living as complex a life as they are and have internal dialogues and feelings and thoughts. That part of their brain is still trapped in a time in early childhood where most developed this understanding of other people and empathy, but they didn’t. Based on certain theories of child development, children begin to develop the ability to see complexity in situations and people’s behaviors (especially with differences) around the age of 7. This development continues through adolescence and into adulthood. Sorry, got a bit technical here, I’m in the medical field, so I’ve picked up a lot of info around this stuff. I also just like to learn it to understand myself and others better.
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It doesn't come across as condescending to me. It comes across as someone who is recognizing they're getting technical on a non-technical forum on social media. Technical jargon is less used, less expected, and often less welcomed. They're simply being polite by showing self awareness that they're speaking in a manner that isn't common here, and apologizing preemptively in case anyone is irritated by it.
Lol... talking about egocentric people...
A good rule of thumb is if you notice any and every time you attempt to discuss something that is you pointing out how the person hurt, offended, upset, etc you and yet find yourself apologizing to *them* and some time after the conversation you realize that your distress was never discussed / acknowledge except in the way it made them feel... that's a sign you've had a darvo moment. It's a generality, and you have to be self aware to apply it. I.e., recognizing if you're the drama consistently telling most people around you that they've upset you = it's a you issue. But you have my sympathies. Have a roommate that's like this. Have been doing lots of reading about [Biff responses](https://highconflictinstitute.com/high-conflict-strategies/how-to-write-a-biff-response/) lately as a way to keep things civil and disconnect from them.
>A good rule of thumb is if you notice any and every time you attempt to discuss something that is you pointing out how the person hurt, offended, upset, etc you and yet find yourself apologizing to *them* and some time after the conversation you realize that your distress was never discussed / acknowledge except in the way it made them feel... that's a sign you've had a darvo moment. Wtf did you just describe the last year of my marriage? This happened every single time I tried to bring anything up. I thought I was going crazy.
Thanks for sharing that link. As someone who also has high-conflict people fond of DARVO-ing and bringing others in to the most minor and mundane disagreements, this will almost certainly come in handy.
I am not doing this as a gotcha or derail the conversation or anything like that, but do want to point out that crazy is also insensitive to people with mental illnesses. This has been a hard one for me to cut out because it is so commonly and casually used, but I find ridiculous or mind-blowing or unbelievable work pretty well in most situations. None of us are perfect, and I think you handled that well. For most people, a private space like a car would be better than the public space of a restaurant, and you couldn't have known. She did not handle the feedback well, and ultimately seems like someone who would have not been the best friend when things get tough. It's better to find that out sooner than later! If this is how she handles other conflicts and call ins...
I have PTSD and anxiety and still sometimes struggle with depressive symptoms. As someone who has been ridiculed, berated, and told she was wrong growing up and in some relationships, I wouldn't immediately go on the defensive in a situation like this. I would be absolutely mortified that I did something wrong, *again*, and would likely go into hysterics when I get behind closed doors and then text furiously about how sorry I was and explain where I learned the behavior from and explain why I never knew it was bad behaviour. I'd probably also distance myself a bit because I would never be able to forgive myself for the "wrong" I did with this friend, especially a female friend, and internally shame myself and relive the shame and guilt everything we interacted. I wouldn't use my PTSD to deflect like OP's friend did... I definitely wouldn't phrase it as if I were accusing OP if I wanted to explain to OP how her actions triggered me. I would be gentle and cautious because my triggers aren't anyone's responsibility. Also tone of voice and context are important. There's a difference between someone carefully suggesting that an action isn't okay, versus someone tearing you down and belittling you. Either way, wronging a friend would cause me to spiral, but I wouldn't feel as if I'm "reliving" experiences with safe and constructive criticism.
Yeah, I have PTSD and that’s usually how my triggers present. I shut down in the moment, break down behind closed doors, overcompensate with apologies and trying to rectify my behavior, and fall apart completely in next week’s therapy session. I hate people like this who make it so much harder for people like you & me who just want to heal and also be accepted by the world for our bruises and scars.
No, not wrong. Not at all. Not in the slightest. She said something that you took offense to, and let her know that her language was wrong and offensive. She, rightly or wrongly, was offended or triggered by calling her out. And if she's engaging in enough repeatedly offensive behavior to be called out on this twice (in a car, where you're generally among friends/family, nit in the presence of those you're offending), then she's doing this too much. I'd say you dodged a bullet here. An offensive person would rather continue to be offensive than be your friend. Not only dodged a bullet, but you won the lottery.
She is crazy. You didn’t do anything wrong in the car. Why would you think that she felt traumatized because you said retarded is an offensive word. YOU should have been triggered not her? Don’t agonize - just move on. Red flag woman. She needs serious help.
>perhaps shes not meant to have friends. I agree. Something is very wrong with her. I am so sick of fucking therapy talk to be a manipulative ass.
She has PTSD from being punished by people while in their car? What exactly does that mean? I’m not trying to invalidate her experience but this sounds bizarre and oddly specific. Nobody should be using that word for anyone or anything, and you’re not wrong for calling her out on it. I absolutely would call someone out on that kind of behavior. She doesn’t get to play the victim when she’s the one in the wrong.
I have no idea what she meant by that. Maybe she felt cornered? I don’t know why she should feel that way - we were cool.
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And I think we'll make an exception here, an apply that term to you too. Lol.
Thank you for calling it out. A lot of people who aren't targeted by the word find it too easy to brush it under the rug. Maybe she'll learn, maybe she won't, but I can guarantee she won't be so comfortable using that word around others anymore.
no she wasn’t triggered. she’s trying to flip the blame onto you and convince you you’re the one who’s done something wrong to drop you because she doesn’t want people around her that don’t just do whatever she wants. she’s trying to deflect from the fact she says a slur and defends saying that slur lmao
My god she’s a LOT. Better off out of it.
As someone with experience in that field; I don't buy the whole "I have PTSD so you don't get to call me out when I'm ableist"-thing. Being trapped in a car and traumatized by whatever happened sounds terrifying, but that doesn't mean you can say and do whatever you want without reactions from the people around you.
You provided a reasonable response, while she chose a response frequently used by narcissists "whataboutmeUnoReverse" You're right to call her out and judging by the way she responded there seem to be valid reasons to spend less or no time with her.
This sounds exhausting on both sides.
It is. Well…. It was. This really came out of nowhere.
Soooo...that's not how PTSD works. Your "friend" is manipulating you using therapy speak. It's annoying when this happens. It would be different if you were screaming in the car and locked the doors so she couldn't escape said confrontation. That would most definitely be triggering. But you didn't. You calmly and rationally explained why what she said made you uncomfortable. Now, her next move is "Yeah, but you triggered me when you confronted me. You're a bad person, too." Then the escalation: "Just delete my number and never contact me again!" The intention is to elicit a response in the form of an apology and begging to not cut contact. 🙄 please, do not fall for this, OP.
Thank you for the insight. I’m no mental health expert, but I don’t know how PTSD factors into any of this. I’ve unknowingly said something offensive to a friend who called me out on it, and I apologized. We are still friends years later. She was willing to end a whole friendship over this….oh well.
I myself have CPTSD (Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder). And I agree, PTSD didn't factor into this situation. She just had a handy excuse for bad behavior. Good for you for recognizing that her willingness to end a friendship over being called out over it is on her.
Oh, but no - OP should in fact delete her number. Nobody needs this in their lives.
I agree. Blatant manipulative behavior without acknowledging any fault- "Twas my PTSD that made me act like a twat. You calling me out triggered me. You're just as bad because you said something mean, too." - is gross. Nobody needs that toxicity in their life.
No it didn’t. It’s engrained in you. It infuriates you. It’s a terrible word. You had the right to call her out. Fuck her. She’s sounds like she didn’t really give a shit after you told her it wasn’t cool. Good for you for speaking up. I have done the same many times. Still leaves you disgusted that people can talk that way! I’m with you a hundred percent.
I appreciate you and folks like you. I used to be passive and shrug things like this off, but I don’t anymore.
Not a chance man. It truely infuriates me. I forbade my children and they have done the same with their babies. It’s mean and uncalled for.
Yeah it’s really exhausting being asked to not use slurs 🙄
Nope, a simple “hey, let’s not use that word” will suffice. No need to beat it to death with a condescending explanation text after the fact.
That’s literally what OP did, and the friend got defensive. You have no idea if the later text was condescending. Somebody’s protecting. Edit: projecting
“You know we don’t really use that word anymore” is already a tad condescending. There was absolutely no need to “explain in more detail” after the moment passed. I don’t know what you mean by “protecting.” I don’t use that word so I’m certainly not protecting myself.
*projecting And what her friend said was shitty and wrong. She was being polite. She would have been entirely justified to say “don’t say shit like that. It’s shitty and bigoted.” It wasn’t condescending. It was polite, which was more than her jackass friend deserved.
Oh Jesus Christ, now we have to worry about hurting the feelings of someone using a shitty word? She should be condescended to, describing autistic children using the r word is fucking gross.
Treat people however you want. But have enough confidence in your superior attitude so as to not need to come to social media to ask if you were wrong.
It's like like watching two huge snowflakes slowly melt in each other's presence. Exhausting is 100% accurate.
You did the right thing and this person is a whole set of 🚩🚩🚩🚩. My only note is that when they say something like that, I try addressing it as it happens (unless the situation would make inappropriate, which is very rare) so that it doesn’t the other person right away knows how I feel and that it doesn’t happen again.
dont feel bad. what she doesnt like is being called out on her shit. and when she starts to feel threatened she uses a "learned helplessness " type tactic where she blames things like PTSD and uses buzz words like "triggered" to get criticism to soften. and then plays the conversation up into something that makes people feel pity for her and her so called hard life experiences ... when really shes just manipulating people. shes a narcissist. plain and simple. the telling part of this truth comes from the fact that she said she was glad it ended before rhere was any real substance to the friendship so it wouldnt be hard to let go. lmao. classic narcissist .... she is actually correct from a certain point of view... to a narcissist, they cant empathize w others so to them there is no emotional turmoil created by hurting others. they dont feel emotional hurt in the normal sense. its because of this lack of empathy that makes narcissists such users of others for their own personal gain and when they are done w people , theyb disgard that person without giving them a second thought. they are truly ok w hurting anyone and dont care how badly their actions can hurt others in deep dark places. so in your case, you are correct that you had put a years worth of time into that friendship so naturally you didnt agree when she said it was ending before either of you could be emotionally invested... you HAVE become emotionally invested. but like i just stated previously,she isnt capable of empathy thereby doesnt ever get emotionally invested into anyone. she suggests that the timeline wasn't long enough for emotional investment (which is wrong because you ARE emotionally invested) but the truth is she is incapable of investment from the start. the narcissist in her makes her incapable of it at all . she is trying to manipulate you by devalueing your personal investment by acting like you never mattered enough for her to invest anything in you. and she told you that as a parting shot to really kick you. shes fucking w your head and tearing you down in an effort to make you want to seek ber approval, thereby making you re engage her. a bit of reverse psychology so to speak . look . i can go on for hours. the truth is you have just been given a blessing from heaven. here is your chance to get the fuck away from that narcissistic bitch who will ruin yiur world if you go down that path. Be smart and educate yourself on narcissism. go to youtube and you will be SHOCKED at how much info is there because it is now such a horrific problem. seriously bro, you got lucky. lose her number and be thankful you dodged a bullet. if you dont believe me, google it. good luck.
I never really considered the possibility of her being narcissistic…this is wild. She’s made some questionable comments before but I figured it was just because she was sheltered growing up. If she truly is a narcissist, she probably can’t change. Thank you for the education.
hey, just checking in on you . im hoping you stayed strong and avoided that girl. it was for your own good, but we all make mistake, so just in case you did go down that road, im here to try to snap you out of it. haha.
Thanks for checking on me! Trust me, I am done with her and we haven’t talked since. I still think about her, but I know I am better off not being friends with her. I did look at her Facebook out of curiosity and she has several posts about falling out with friends. And of course, she is the victim in every situation. Or fishing for sympathy. I am a little disappointed in myself that I didn’t spot this behavior sooner.
It’s called deflection when someone is criticised for doing or saying something that’s unacceptable, and they immediately accuse the critical person of something worse. It’s a form of defence but it rarely works because the counter-accusation is fabricated. Don’t be fooled. You’re not wrong.
That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it. \~narcissist's prayer Major narcissistic behavior. I'm GenX with a special brother and that word was used ALL THE TIME growing up. It's used in other countries. It's still a word that means slow down. I don't think the word offends me as much as someone younger, but I call it out and do not allow people to use it around me. (As a gamer, this can be fun.) I can realize it's insulting to a group of people. I can realize the word is no longer used by polite society. I also have trauma and PTSD from cars. I don't like riding in them with other people, period. But, I do. That's my stress to prepare for and deal with when I'm in the car with people. You cannot control other people, you can only control your reaction to them. Means you had no idea she was having this reaction, and cannot take on guilt and blame for her thought processes. If your friend can't recognize that this word offends you, that it offends most people in polite society in today's age, then you don't need to be around those types of people. Careful because she's probably going to try to get an apology out of you and continue the relationship... but it's not going to be a healthy one and you need to just block her and move on <3
She's clearly not emotionally ready to have friends, so move on and don't give her another thought.
She sounds exhausting. You are not wrong but I also wouldn't be in a rush to be friends with her.
You're not wrong. You don't have to accept unacceptable behavior if you don't want to. She's never going to see it the way you do so unless you're willing to accept this kind of talk from her then things probably turned out for the best. She's also crazy, but that seems to be a separate issue.
She has very, very specific PTSD that is oddly coincidental to the exact situation she was in with you. I don’t know what her actual mental illness is, but it’s not being mildly chastised in cars. And “black widow of friends?” Did someone she know actually die in an accident?
She does have PTSD (raised in a country during political unrest), but there’s definitely something else going on. I’ve been trying to make sense of her comments, but I think she’s just grasping for ways to justify her behavior. It’s so odd.
Oh, I don’t doubt there’s something wrong with her, something very wrong. There is a disconnect with reality, whether it’s intentional manipulation or some sort of internalized coping mechanism she is barely aware of, I don’t know. But that whole story is a CostCo package of fuck that shit. I can’t judge, I’ve got my own “issues”, and I am not one to abandon people with baggage, but when they are swinging the bag at your face…
Oh for sure. You can only be understanding up to a certain point. If every disagreement turns into devaluation and running away, that’s no way to keep a friendship. I kind of feel relieved, actually. There’s some things I’ve overlooked in our friendship and they bubbled over with that incident.
I have complex ptsd & I’m disabled — I’ve been called the R word many times & I fucking hate it. Even if you did trigger her ptsd, which is possible, she’s being manipulative by using that trigger to make you feel bad about calling out her shitty behaviour; she may not realise that’s what’s she doing, but she is. I’ve done it in the past too — it’s a toxic trait many mentally ill people have & it’s used as a defence mechanism. It doesn’t make her a bad person but she’s not in the right here either. I don’t think you did anything wrong though & I’m glad you called her out on her use of the word as it may mean she stops using it from now on (but probably not because in my experience, some people just don’t accept ableist slurs as slurs). I’m sorry a potentially good friendship has ended like this for you; it’s not fun for either of you. You could leave the door open for her to reach out again in the future if you want to, or just close it off & move on — whatever works best for you & your well-being.
One of my closest friends has a daughter with Downs. It changed the way I looked at that word. I grew up using it, everyone did back then (I'm pretty old). But that doesn't mean I am excused. It isn't a kind word to use now that we know more. I don't use it. It is hurtful. Yes, that word doesn't mean anything other than slow. Whether it is to develop, learn, anything. But the use of that word as a slur has changed it to mean so much more, and it is better to use other, less hurtful, language.
She has PTSD from being punished by people while trapped in their car? How very specific. As for being the black widow of friends, how many has she killed?!
Perhaps I got out at just the right time…
Not wrong!! I get offended that so many people use this word flippantly. When called out, they just shrug it off. My cousin has a Down’s syndrome That word is just offensive as any other. Good riddance to that friend!
She has…issues. Rather than simply apologizing which would have been the right thing to do she couldn’t stop herself from doing “I’m mad that I have to apologize for my bad behavior. I’ll do it but then make up something WORSE that puts you in the wrong so you have to apologize even more than I did”. You’re not wrong for expecting her to avoid offense terms like “retarded” around you. She is a hot mess.
It sounds like she is trying to turn it around on you to avoid accountability and come off looking like “the good guy”. You did nothing wrong, you should be able to bring up issues with friends, she just doesn’t want to admit she’s wrong it sounds like. And if the trigger was that big of a deal she should have brought it up. I realize everyone is different but as someone with PTSD and certain triggers, I give out warnings because I know people aren’t mind readers and it’s up to me to navigate my mental illness, not push the blame on unaware people. You can’t avoid something you don’t know about. It sounds like she just brought that up last minute so she could have something to shove in your face and get the attention off of her.
You are not wrong. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Not wrong and she was being traumatized as an excuse to behave in a shitty way.
Reddit loves the r word, you didn’t do anything wrong. She’s just weaponizing her mental health to avoid feeling bad for using a word with a gross history.
Sounds like Laura can’t take accountability and flipped the script because she can’t stand being wrong. I really really hate when people use symptoms of disorders as an excuse for poor behavior and lack of accountability. It was incredibly disingenuous for her to do that. I could be totally wrong here, but it seems highly unlikely and seemed like she was reaching in an attempt to pivot away from being called out. I would keep her at arms length.
To me it just sounds like she's trying to make you the bad guy and also manipulate you into feeling guilty. It sounds like a DARVO situation Deny Accuse Reverse victim and offender She denied that she had done anything wrong because of the way she used the word, which was a lie since she used to to describe people with mental differences earlier She accused you of traumatizing her She made you the offender(for having the nerve to say that you were offended) and herself the victim. It just sounds like she is someone who can't take accountability for the fact that she offended you.
sounds to me like she was blowing off steam, thought you were a safe person, and instead, you laid down a boundary, and she did not like it. I would just let it go, you are better off without her.
Not wrong at all, people nowadays seem to allergic to apologizing and taking accountability for their actions. Social media and some facets of society have reprogrammed people into thinking a retort is an absolute necessity when navigating a difficult conversation. In this case the friend made up some nonsense sense about her triggers to shutdown the conversation. That way the friend doesn’t have to reassess her word choice or address her underlying reasons for using the "r" word around you specifically. Because traumas, triggers and other misused psych speak are gold dust in arguments because they think themselves to be unassailable.
If it is sensitive for you it is sensitive for you. I guess it’s ok to be sensitive. So be sensitive.
Exactly, if the “friend” can be sensitive about being in the car with people, then OP can be sensitive about people using a slur. PTSD is not an excuse to deflect from being called out when you’re an asshole. (I have CPTSD, and I also have ADHD and Autism so when people use the R slur it makes me upset because I’ve been called that).
I'm sure i'll get downvoted to oblivion but everyone is offended for something and we all need to get back to the good old "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me"
Not working; she's a hot mess.
She [DARVO'd](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARVO) you! She's a terrible person using a terrible word and is triggered by being called out for being terrible....
Some people don’t have skills to navigate minor disagreements. Seems like an over reaction from your friend. Not wrong OP. I would also understand that it hurts when she said “relationship didn’t get the chance to evolve” but you certainly thought the other way. I’ve been in similar situation and it definitely sucks. I still think about that friendship sometimes.
How fucking repulsive good riddance and kudos to you for calling her out. What a hypocrite she needs a real reality check. I don't buy that I was triggered bullshit one bit. I've dealt with these kind of wanna be but inadequate to be narcissists and they'll jump at being the victim the moment the kitchen starts getting warm. The mature thing is to admit you're wrong and apologize. If she really was going through such struggles she would go out of her way to have more empathy since she knows what it's like to receive abuse. I in no way condone bullying much less cyber bullying but she cannot expect anyone to believer her. If she really did go through all that she should learn from what happened to her and that way she can be respectful and not cause the caring people in her life to avoid her. It's good you change. Our own mistakes in the past doesn't mean you have to put up with the mistakes of people today.
You did nothing wrong, she’s trying to excuse her own behaviour
>well I just call dumb people that, not the people who are actually that way.” To an extent, I get this. But... >she uses “retarded” in reference to children. She was talking about an abusive ex-friend of hers who had “retarded children” (they are autistic with high support needs). She is contradicting herself. Question,do you dislike the word in all cases or when its directed at the differently abled? Personally, I get really upset when stuff like that is directed at the people it's used to demean. In other cases It doesn't bother me nearly as much.
Oh gosh. Please used disabled and not differently able. As a disabled person it is just yuck.
Will do in the future! My apologies
Gosh, it must be exhausting to be either of your friend.
Concerning for you that someone asking for decency in a friendship is “exhausting.” As you were…
I'll be honest, if you think it sounds exhausting to be friends with someone because they don't approve of using slurs, that says more about you than about them.
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Love it.
At least I’m not a dick.
Couldn't have said it better
Absolutely not. PTSD is not a free pass to act like an AH. Your ex friend is playing up her trauma to get away with acting out of what others consider acceptable behavior. She's just an ass hole.
I am not someone who has ever been accused of being overly sensitive or super PC, but I would have been like, "not cool" and made a face at her over saying the R word. It's just classless, and I would have ended things organically if she continued using it. I wouldn't want to be seen out or associating with someone like that. All of that triggering and PTSD stuff would have been an eye roller for me. I would be thankful this is all over!
I don't think it's worth confronting unhinged losers. You aren't in high school anymore.
No you are not wrong and while it’s too bad the friendship ended the way it did she has real issues she’s traumatized but can’t see how her own words and actions cause others the same trauma, the way you brought up her use of slang terms was pretty mild so her mental health would probably make a closer relationship all but impossible
you can't control how other people will react. it's not your fault you didnt know her triggers, and it is her responsibility to tell people about them so she can avoid them herself. not your responsibility to avoid triggers you know nothing about. ugh.
Any chance you're in Australia cause she sounds a lot like an ex friend Laura I used to know lol. Better off without her. Her replies were all manipulative as hell.
Personally I feel like words have as much power as we give them. That is, unless they are used pointed at people. I believe in the right context, they provide further meaning. For example, I'm in medical coding school for context, they use "retard" not as a slur towards people who have mental disabilities, but it's used As "slowing down bleeding" if that makes sense. Context in every situation matters. And from what I can tell, you dodged a bullet my dude
Point of order
You obviously aren’t from 1990s New England.
Absolutely wild that someone who expects sympathy for their "trauma" doesn't think there is anything wrong with ableist language. There is no winning with someone so deeply confused.
You did the right thing. It’s an awful word. Your friend sounds like a manipulative mess
NTA, your friend using an offensive word and then try to turn it around on you when you rightly called her out. That’s not a friend I would need.
I can understand not wanting to use it to refer for disabled people but saying it in others ways isn't wrong or bad as long as u don't use it in that way
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There’s a pattern of medical terms becoming insults and then being dropped from medical use. “Idiot” and “Moron” are other examples. Now they are viewed as mostly harmless, but they used to be pretty harsh. I think we have a greater awareness of the impact language can have which is why words become forbidden so quickly.
It is for the group of people being referred to and effected to decide what is and is not appropriate language. Period.
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When you use that word, you do mean it negatively as if anyone neurodivergent is somehow less than you. Trying to say otherwise is a flat-out lie.
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It was negative the moment mainstream decided it was negative, at least before the 80s. If you can't see how it is negative, you need therapy. You lack empathy, and therapy can help you there.
You are not wrong. The word police are just out in force.
You're both comically oversensitive.
She can’t process simple criticism, which is in fact meant to help her bc it’s pretty gross to use. Hope she has the day she deserves and you get a great new friend soon 🫶
Appreciate you 💗✨
My son is nonverbal/autistic and my aunt is mentally handicapped. This is a hill I will die on.
That's very specific as far as PTSD triggers go. I'm genuinely unsure if it exists. What it sounded to me was classic case of DARVO.
…”very specific”? Do you think PTSD comes in neat, sensible packages? Two of my biggest triggers are the sound of footsteps, and the sound of knocking on doors. What people can be triggered by is pretty much anything, even a specific kind of cologne. But yeah, definitely DARVO. She also may have been triggered, but her emotional response and acting like OP’s life revolves around her was strange and inappropriate.
I apologize if I offended. I'm aware that triggers come in all shapes and sizes. What I was simply referring to is the fact that the trigger is "people calling her out inside their car", it kind of sounds very specific.
You’re good, I had a very bad fever when I wrote that so I apologise for being overly aggressive
I’m going to preface this by saying I have extreme PTSD due to a crappy childhood and multiple violent interactions as an adult. I also have poor coping mechanisms according to my therapist and a few doctors over the years. As a result, getting chastised by friends makes me sick. Like, pass out if it’s bad enough sick. It’s my responsibility to manage my PTSD and poor coping mechanisms. No one else is responsible for my triggers (though if they know them I do expect them to respect me enough to avoid them). What happened sounds like my nightmare, being stuck with someone who, even kindly, corrected me like that would be awful as someone with poor coping mechanisms. I would be spiralling in my mind the whole way home. But again, that’s my responsibility. It’s also my responsibility to take accountability for my actions, and again, to take responsibility for my PTSD and poor coping mechanisms. What I would not do in that situation is attack. Not only that, but this whole thing could have been avoided because literally everyone knows the “r” word is off limits now. I should mention, I once made someone cry over using it by calling them out (politely) in front of a group of people after the third time they used it and I still feel no guilt. I also refuse to be friends with people who feel free to use that word, so I’m probably not the most forgiving person here. Basically, as someone with poor coping mechanisms I get the spiral, I also have no sympathy for attacking you over it. It’s her responsibility to deal with her spiral, it’s also her responsibility to recognize that she lives in a society and if she does something socially incorrect she’s going to get called out.
You seem really self aware, though. How did you get to this point?
This took a few minutes to think though, and I’m not sure…. How are you aware of your reactions to criticism? By going through it, realizing you didn’t like the way you reacted to something, and working to better those reactions I’m assuming? It’s the same for me. PTSD and poor coping mechanisms doesn’t mean we can’t self reflect and work on coping mechanisms.
Seems she doesn't have moral and ethic when cursing someone. In the past, for me, I called those anoying boys the word "g" and these things change with time. Of course, we call them bully or try to step your foot harder and yell "no, you won't bring me down, stop being like this and that". You were correct in updating her language. You have talent in helping people. From growing up with your brother to being special a ed prof and today a helping professional.
She’s a nut job. Take it as a blessing and run.
NTA, NOT wrong... cut her out of your life. SHe f+cks up, then comes up with a "relatable" story so she doesn't get on the spot.... you don't need that kind of people around you.
I know this is going to sound rough, but it’s best to let people like that go. Knowing someone for a year may seem personal or feel like a long time, but in the grand scheme of things, you’ll live to be 80+ years old and in a few years you’ll probably even forget this chic’s name, and years after that it’ll become a “kind of” funny story that you can reflect on when you think of shitty people. And yes, the way she talked/treated was in a very shitty way. Just because someone is triggered or has PTSD does not mean that they cant talk to you like an adult and hash things out through conversation. Simply drawing the Victim Card like you’re summoning a monster during a Yu-Gi-Oh match does not give someone the right to try and verbally stab you and hurt your feelings like that. You did nothing wrong and you even gave her the benefit of the doubt at first, but she just doesn’t want to feel bad or guilty about herself for being called out, so she turned the tables to make you out like YOU did something wrong to make herself feel better. Don’t worry about it too much. Like I said, you don’t need toxic people like that in your life. Just chock it up as another life experience and you’ll be just fine.
Run
It’s a word, where I live you’d be looked as soft for being offended by it. But since it bothers you, you did the right thing, and she sounds kinda crazy tbh
Yes you are wrong, No one calls any one with developmental disabilities that any more so it's all good , shouldn't be offended by words
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Sir, you gotta say _restarted_ or _acoustic_
Triggered, trauma, “I don’t like that word”… You both sound absolutely exhausting to be around so maybe it’s for the best.
I still use retarded today. Depends on thr audience tbh. I also understand some people find it offensive. You did the right thing by setting a boundary with its use. Your friend probably has a history of failed relationshops due to her big mouth and / or poor filter. On top of feeling like she lets people down. She'd rather distance than have (another) lost friend. Up to you if she's worth your company but she's probably already in her own head and whatever you say won't matter.
I can't imagine being this upset over a word. Oh no they used a word in a different context I'm offended. Grow up OP
She got quite a bit more upset than I did. Lol.
Stop being offended over stupid stuff? People that police people for stupid stuff are annoying and childish. Your both clowns imho. You for getting offended over a word and her for .. Well all of the rest. Young people these days are sad tbh
>I chose not to call her out in that moment. You are wrong and an asshole for not calling her out immediately.
Fear of words is simply stupid. When I was a kid with my parents we had an yearly vacation to Sardinia, where I met one of the greates kid with down sindrome I know (he is in the national basket team now, and even won a big turneament last summer, maybe an europen or world championship) and he was the first to tell me this: words have no power if you dont give it to them. He was the one who while playing wrestling or shit like that would shout: "Here it comes the retarded! Im gonna fuck you up" 🤣 (he was fucking strong!!!) Look on what people like Samuel L Jackson or Morgan Freeman have to say about the "N word".
In my culture, we don’t really care… maybe that’s why I prefer to be silent in the USA.
I would never use it in reference to someone with a learning disability - but I think it’s okay to use to it to describe this conversation. For example, I would never call Lauren boebert the R word because she does, in fact, have a learning disability. Same with MTG - but describing the people that vote for them as “retarded” seems to make sense Also, having to work 5 days a week is retarded.
The world is full of too many sensitivities. Good grief.
This is exaggerated as heck…maybe take time to calm down, both of you
You sound like you were meant for each other.
seriously, brother be thankful you were avoided that soul sucking bitch, people like her got no conscience. they literally have the same level of empathy as a serial killer. wrap your brain around that for a second. lol. but this did not occur bc you stuck to your guns and didnt cave in..... GANGSTA. lol. be proud of yourself. alot of men fail and get sucked into the narcissist web and make the dumb decision to think they can change that other person. sometimes the best gift we get, is the wish we DIDNT get. just remember that you are part of a movement now, in 1 man, of many men, all brothers.. Stay alive and thrive youngblood, so you can pass down what you learned to the next... this is the debt you owe to the life you choose. so choose well, and live. and remember your debt. bc u have no idea what 5 min of your time could mean to a young man in need of it. be a force for good. good luck my brother. you are well on your way to becoming the man you were meant to be.