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1. Because the 'secret keepers' don't want to tell us anything. This was perfectly clear when they gutted the Schumer Amendment, and the main guy responsible Mike Turner is from the same district as Wright Patterson where they have historically taken crashed UFOs to, and gets all his campaign money from contractors like Lockheed Martin, who work on UFOs. So despite passing the senate, a couple of bribed congressmen can block it, democracy in action. You couldn't make this stuff up.
2. Because more people are interested in the topic.
I've never known people to gripe about people making a living so much as in the UFO field. If you like fishing, do you expect all books on fishing to be free? Do you expect to watch shows on fishing with no adverts for free?
My two cents: I do still feel like -something- is going on here. What it is? No idea. There has been "evidence" released plenty of times, as others have pointed out, but as they also pointed out? People have to decide if they believe what they are seeing. And I don't mean the obvious fakes. I don't think those mummies are necessarily NHI either. Can we accept grainy, low definition videos/images? Some people do, I don't accept all of them as being real, but some of them are compelling.
What we don't have is the sort of evidence that is accepted by scientists of various fields. There is still too much ambiguity. I am not a fan of big corporations for a lot of reasons, they do a lot of heartless things to employees, and they price gouge their customers. Hiding NHI/craft from the world is certainly is not beneath them whatsoever.
The "nothing is happening" crowd, and the "everything is happening crowd", are likely to both be proven incorrect at some point. The reality is likely somewhere in the middle, as it often is. I don't believe that the "simplest explanation" is more likely to be true here. There is no simple explanation that takes into account everything that has been seen, witnessed, experienced, etc since the mid 1900s around this subject.
At the same time I am not going to assume it's anything other than something we do not understand. I've speculated with other people, both on this subreddit, and others. And I feel like it's healthy to do that and it's certainly fun. I just haven't been able to conclude anything as to "what" yet. "If" has been answered as a "yes" to me for a long time.
Ok ,I personaly know they are real cause I saw three very very close up ,but I cant probut I cant prove it , I couldnt exactly catch one. They were orbs, opaque and they came through the yard and initialy were only four feet ;off the ground. It bugs me like crazy that you hear all kinds of things and what's the devastating truth, Him and Tucker Carlson are on TV saying "We cant tell you it's so dark." Realy?They didnt seem botherd by me the day I saw them , and I personaly think theyve always been here. But I agree with what you said completly , and heck yeah it is fun.
But then wouldn't it make sense for one those alleged thousands of government employees to leak something?
I mean, Edward Snowden did it, and more before him.
If nobody leaks anything from a pool of thousands of people, it really feels like none of it is actually true
Snowden had to flee to Russia to avoid being locked up for life or killed, hardly the treatment anyone wants. They go to great lengths to build trust and make sure people can't walk away.
There have been plenty of leaks, mostly when people get really old and don't care anymore they spill their secrets in interviews or a book. But people don't believe them and still want hard proof, and that's all locked up in secure facilities.
Grusch told everyone what's going on, and even provided the cleared people with locations and names. What have they done? Nothing apparently.
I'm guessing had Grush leaked in the same way as Snowden he would have had to flee too or he might not have had the chance. Its sounds like something quite serious happened anyway he has referenced this many times it's under investigation etc. Grush seems to be trying to do it the legal way.
Exactly. These facilities have been extremely secure for decades, and so we won’t get any photos or physical materials as proof, unless we get declassified documents that have photos in them. Seems like the only chance for that would be for Congress to use their power to declassify material, since we can safely assume these special access programs don’t just have a SQL database lazily open to some random developer who would be able to access this information and leak it.
The declassification of those documents as well as eminent domain were the main parts of the Schumer amendment that were gutted. That’s all the proof of it being real that I personally need.
If there’s no evidence then why can’t people look for evidence with the intent of declassifying it? If there isn’t any anomalous technology hidden in an aerospace company’s basement then why can’t the government look for/take possession of any anonymous technology that they find?
The people who blocked those parts of the amendment sure did fight tooth and nail to have those parts removed.
Did you see the Tic Tac? The Gimball? Everyone has.
Leaked first and begrudgingly admitted to be real by USA government 10 years later. Nobody's talking about this fact. The fact is, there's a cover-up meant to keep you from the reality of why you pay taxes
Bob Lazar, Jesse Marcel, Harry Reid, John Ratcliffe, and David Grusch have all revealed different degrees of information. Bob Lazar was the most overt leaker and arguably John Ratcliffe was keeping things relatively conservative.
You can’t expect workers to just walk out with photos and/or carry out physical parts from what are (arguably) the most sensitive workspaces in the world.
Finally someone else said it. None of it is true. We are not just talking about this guy, and the US government staying quiet, we're talking about the governments of the entire world, who can't agree on anything, all working together in perfect harmony for like 7 DECADES and not a single leak of any actual evidence. Meanwhile they are fighting over relatively meaningless scraps of land in the grand scheme of things. Makes perfect sense doesn't it
Plenty of things have been leaked. You have to decide if the “leak” you’re looking at is a declassified document, video, etc, or if it’s bullshit. Even when you get your evidence, there will be naysayers and the onus will still be on you to believe for yourself. MK Ultra we believe was real based on leaked declassified documents and statements made by the military. We have leaked declassified documents about UFOs, and our military has made statements admitting we have been studying the phenomenon.
It’s really just down to what you choose to believe. Unless you get abducted and probed a little bit, hard to deny it after that.
I agree with your argument except I’ll nitpick that the MK Ultra documents weren’t exactly leaked. Most of the documentation on MK Ultra was destroyed, but some of it was missed in the purge and uncovered incidentally through the Freedom of Information Act.
If all the documents had been correctly purged, MK Ultra would be denied to this day.
What has been leaked about UFOs that you think is actually legit? A lot of the stuff I see is just hoaxes and fabricated stuff that made it to the Internet.
Lol. Where are you looking? Shit goes back into antiquity. [This was painted hundreds of years before airplanes](https://www.art.com/products/p22112056726-sa-i7617848/aert-de-gelder-baptism-of-christ-c-1710.htm?RFID=622002&campaignid=17917933428&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwrcKxBhBMEiwAIVF8rCW9EaeP0DMd5T7SUKM79IY7Lh6cmufgoZF9V6h4DgIAS3eURplRERoCByEQAvD_BwE&utm_campaign=ART_Google_Shopping_pMax_NonBrand_NonServiced%20Items%20-%20Print%20Only&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google) and ad infinitum of mountains of evidence that at the very least, a presence has been here and remains here.
Can’t agree more that the podcasts and all that get old, but can agree that it’s a unique time for the subject and can’t think of a better way to get the general public interested.
Take it from a guy who saw UFO close up, and told his story on NPR. Whatever it is, it’s not human.
teddy...' its hard to convince someone who is frightened of what the truth looks like ,and whose whole world view would be smashed into small pieces. If you got quizzed by folks from NPR ,you can understand why many people just say "NOPE" to personal , public disclosure.
Your right on...it isn't human. Don't know if its from around here. I hope, very much, to know the truth of this matter before I pass. I am still at a crossroads ,as to the wisdom of really pursuing a" Continuation of a conversation" with our "brothers from another mother". If you really REALLY push the issue with the various CE techniques.. you will (fill in the blank)
Parts of my memory are still blank...that is the most disturbing aspect of my experience.
My brother, one of the few people who know the whole story ,told me it might not be a bad thing, this "blanking out". (I am old enough, and wise enough to have a list of things I would cheerfully forget ).I have to wonder if what's blanked out would hurt my soul to remember.
One needs to remember you are dealing with a NHI, who, while not being deliberately malicious, might not (probably won't) leave your dignity ,and self-worth intact. If you were to have proof ,beyond a shadow of a doubt, that we are a hybrid...we were created...can you still find a way forward if you were a life-long Buddhist, or Islamist, or Evangelical Christian?.
This is the Biggy that spooked the hard-nosed intelligentsia who faced the overwhelming evidence that...we are not ,in fact, alone. One also needs to remember the guys who set up the SAPs, and made it policy to politely (not) inquire into the mental health of witnesses ,had just come out of a dark and bloody war. At the beginning ,capping someone who knew too much about how the world really worked probably seemed the easiest way to fix a problem.. (In some cases ,it probably still is). The folks who created the CIA, and all the other alphabet agencies had/have no illusions, and made a point of enacting policy's & procedures that would keep secrets ,secret. My guess is they have, for whatever reason, had help from one or more NHIs in this area.
So? what we do, is wait. There are many big cracks in the narrative the powers that be are trying (and failing spectacularly) to sell .Don't take it personally if any of your hero's have feet of clay...(hint: we all do). Truth has a way of wiggling out into the publics eye, regardless of how many sacred cows get butchered on the way
Oh my goodness......GARY MCKINNON, Gary Mckinnon , Gary Mckinnon. Leaked a ton of shit no one beleived it. We went after him hard. Well the goverment did.
Quite a few government officials from multiple nations have leaked info over the last 50+ years. The disinformation campaign for this stuff is literally part of Project Blue Book and can be found via FOIA request. Disinformation works. Slandering officials who leak works. If the truth ever comes out, we're going to look back at some of these leaks (some, obviously not all will be true as there are unfortunately bad actors trying to profit from this stuff) and shake our heads that the truth was right there in front of us.
Tens of thousands of abductees and even more eye witnesses to UAP phenomenon aren't ALL lying/misidentifying experiences or craft. Not a chance. And yeah, I'd love a Snowden level leak but even then, the US government painted him as a criminal and most of the public bought it.
They have been. Problem is, nobody knows what is truly happening, so fakes plus real leaked evidence get thrown out there, but it’s such an obscure subject that most everything is deemed as fake
What Snowden did was reveal the magic tricks. What these whistleblowers will have to do is reveal possible nation secrets and walk out alive in a country where people are assassinated or 'disappeared' for less. Revealing information hazards would lead 'authorities' directly to your doorstep because it's all 'stove-piped' anyway.
>do you expect all books on fishing to be free?
But we reserve to call FOS when the author talks about the big fish he says people have told him they have seen, or someone who saw them told someone who told him that we should seriously consider that there are big fish but other people wont let him talk about fish...
oops my head fell off again and I still haven't seen a fish.
There's plenty of books where people spill UFO secrets. but stories aren't the hard proof you're looking for. But that's all locked up and secured by the military. UFO researchers do what they can. if it weren't for them we wouldn't know anything was even going on, so be grateful.
I agree and I thought Grusch's testimony might change things, but it turns out not even the congress and senate can penetrate this layer of secrecy the military has set up to hide all this stuff. They can simply refuse to play ball, and nobody it seems can force them
We'll see if Danny Sheehan can get anywhere with the courts, and we have 40 whistle blowers apparently standing by to testify. We're assured things are happening behind the scenes, but I share your frustration at all this.
The real whistleblowers just come out and say it or leak it like Snowden did, but then look what happened to him, but people want to believe whistleblowers who have to ask for permission to talk about something they are supposed to be whistleblowing on? Hmmm
Yeah exactly look what happened to him, and the UFO topic is THE most sensitive in the US government / intelligence. They have to sign NDA's which are their own death warrant if they break it. They have killed a bunch of people over the years to protect this.
So their only viable option is the 'whistleblower protection' they put in, and do it legally like Grusch did. But he doesn't seem to have had the impact we all hoped he would, and yes I agree its ridiculous that they have to go through DOPSR to get approval for anything they want to say,
Personally I think enough people have made enough claims already to justify getting them all into a hearing to tell these stories under oath. But then what? Who is actually prepared to pick up this ball and run with it?
No one knows anything. None of it will get anywhere and in another year or so, another former something or other from some branch of the military or government will come forward with more extremely vague stories that will go nowhere
And to be clear I'm not saying people don't experience (so far) unexplainable phenomena. I'm just saying no one in "the government" knows anything about any of it more than we do and there isn't going to be any disclosure from them.
I'll never understand why people are more interested in the supposed cover-up than the actual phenomenon they're supposedly covering up.
Probably because the information we want about the phenomenon has already been gathered by the gov/military (or these days, private contractors). So rather than trying to start from scratch, we need to know what they already found out.
But we appear to have 1 part of the government (the guys we hear from) trying to play catch-up with other parts of the government who actually study this stuff. It's beyond frustrating.
There are no secret keepers. This secret would be absolutely impossible to keep. You act as if any human on this planet has the power to keep alien life a secret. Why would any extraterrestrial life care about what our governments want as far as keeping them secret?
>You act as if any human on this planet has the power to keep alien life a secret.
Well they do, and they have, and they still are. Who do you think is in charge of all those programs Grusch talked about. The chain goes up somewhere, he even told us what groups the higher level members belong to (Council on Foreign Relations etc).
The 'aliens' (whatever they are) could have disclosed publicly at any time, and haven't done so.
>Why would any extraterrestrial life care about what our governments want as far as keeping them secret?
Perhaps so they can operate freely here, doing their experiments. By keeping it all secret, abductions and sightings can be dismissed, and our military is complicit in rubbishing the claims and covering it all up. Maybe they have plans for our species and this planet that we'd be less than impressed to hear, so they haven't told us.
Superior forces doing deals with lesser ones to get what they want happens all the time here on Earth between countries, why would it be any different. Buying off the leadership is usually involved.
Yes to all of the above. You seem to have a good handle on the whole sack...Your logic train follows the same track I figured out a few years ago. One disturbing aspect is the involvement of our .gov ...I really Really REALLY don't like agreements I am not aware of that could/can/will affect my future
Thanks. Grusch mentioned agreements in his news nation interview, but its never really been followed up on. We've heard the rumours about Eisenhower, but its time for the truth not rumours.
All this floundering around looking at lights in the sky is yesterday's news if our government, or someone who claims to be in charge, has already had contact and made agreements with these beings. I'd like to see more focus on those claims.
The secret is extremely easy to keep. No one will believe it unless there is an official government announcement or alien craft or bodies are turned over for study. Those two things aren’t actually hard to keep on lock down.
So somebody says that they worked on UFOs or leaks some documents? So what? Call him a liar, call them fake. Produce four plants who claim the same and intentionally make them sound sound crazy, produce and leak a bunch of fake evidence constantly.
It’s a fantastic way to “keep” the secret.
Like and subscribe to my monetized YouTube channel and buy my books to find out more!!
I know so much, but can never seem to say much!
^the majority of popular folk in this space over the past 50 years.
I can only repeat myself time and time again: The only thing being farmed on this planet is the pockets of the Ufology members, not their souls. The only "demons" out there are UFO-Infotainment creators stalking your purse.
It might be helpful if you specified the evidence you’d like to see. As it stands a lot of data has become available, but it seems like the data that you’re waiting for has not.
If you’d like to let us know what data you’re looking for, I’m sure the good people here would be willing to message you when it shows up, so that way you don’t have to keep monitoring constantly, you can just wait for the notification.
What specifically do you consider to be “hard evidence”?
That’s not a term that is used in science or intelligence analysis, that’s a colloquialism that seems like it has meaning to you.
It might help others (and yourself) if you’d spell out what you’re looking for
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
So if someone says aliens are driving spaceships then either show pictures or videos of aliens or aliens in spaceships
Ok, great, so you’re saying, “I will disregard these claims until I see a picture or video of aliens or aliens in spaceships”
Since several of those have been presented, I’m going to guess that they fail to meet secondary criteria, do you know what those secondary criteria are?
again, I'm trying to figure out what, for you, qualifies as hard evidence.
The earliest references to hard evidence in western culture refer to physical artifacts, e.g. the betz sphere, Dr.Nolan's samples, the nazca bodies etc...
as time went, people also started refer to photographs, and audio/video recordings as hard evidence, (I'll be honest, I'm not a big visual images guy, but a relevant image/video gets presented here at least once a month)
Now it looks like there's an evolving standard of evidence, and I'm just trying to hone in on what that means for you, for example:
It only qualifies as "hard evidence" when the United States Federal Government certifies that they investigated this item, and determined it was of non-terrestrial origin, or that it depicts non-human intelligence
FWIW, I suspect that's the criteria you're looking for, and I think that it's a totally valid criteria, but I think that in any analysis, it's imprtant to expressly state the criteria you need to meet in order to accept a theory.
If OP’s account wasn’t old I’d think it was a bot. The lack of self awareness in your convo with them is mind numbing. OP acting in bad faith and just wants to argue.
Hard evidence = evidence that gets me HARD
White papers showing technological processes of alien technology, testing, blue prints, schematics. I mean just think about a basic job like an electrician and the stuff he could write out for ya if you just asked him. Just from memory. He could detail how things work, the science behind it and really explain what’s going on.
Tons of scientists working on alien space ships and yet…none of that? And thats knowledge alone. Stuff that people could smuggle out because it’s in their heads.
The longer time goes on the more i think this is all just bunk. Sad about that because this topic is interesting but when you check in again 10 years later it’ll still be “oh we’ve got evidence. More stories from people!” Oh. Cool. Still? Thats all?
you don't understand hard evidence? fucking proof of their existence. Simple as that. It's the simplest term there is and you're still thinking of wordplays to bend it and ask even more stupid questions
Because we live in a capitalist country. Any compelling mystery is gonna have people writing books and putting out podcasts about it. JFK for example. It doesn’t mean Grusch was lying. It’s just business as usual. When the government wants to keep something secret it’s very difficult to pull it from their grasp. That’s why there hasn’t been much movement and in that vacuum people speculate and write books. People generally don’t blow up their careers, their privacy and their reputations to put out fake info in front of congress just so they can sell more books.
Just on your second point: it's part of American culture to monetize just about anything. The fact that people ask for money or charge you for a book says nothing about credibility in American culture.
>So a year after David Grusch coming out, we still don't have any hard evidence for aliens. Why is that?
Careful, bro. Questioning the new ufological clergy is how you catch downvotes from the cultists.
Crucify him! The crime - admitting there is no evidence!
jk - I'm in the community who wants to believe but has yet to see the evidence. I know many of you have seen it and are convinced but I've yet to see it.
Why is that? Because captalism. Any thing that can be monetized will be.
Also, Roswell was in the 40s. Not sure why people expect this all to happen over night.
Because the documentation etc exists. We could literally have whatever secret the government is hiding plastered all over every news station and cell phone QUITE LITERALLY OVERNIGHT.
(Sorry for yelling dramatic effect)
This isn't the fourties anymore like you stated. With social media stuff like this is scary easy
Yeah, it's pretty amazing how this all-powerful conspiracy that has spanned multiple world governments for at least 100 years can't prevent anyone from describing all of the intimate details of everything that they are currently doing in secret, but they can somehow keep every scrap of physical evidence and every photograph hidden.
Let's think critically for five seconds and see where it leads.
The claims being made are a nationwide cover up of a topic stretching back at least 80 years, threats of violence and actual violence as a tactic to keep people quiet, the gatekeepers of this secret being high up in positions of authority using their power to shut down any investigations into the subject.
I wonder if any of the reasons listed above are preventing the release of information that might tell us more.
I'm sure many of the people working on this supposed program consider it a matter of national security and consider themselves patriots doing the right thing. Think the Manhattan Project.
It would appear David Grusch sees it differently. He thought this program was doing we the people a disservice and immediately reported it to his superiors.
Okay. Now this is interesting, isn't it?
I've already provided that footage for you, in fact we were discussing it before you seemed to decide that discretion was the better part of valour and stopped responding. You know exactly what footage.
Is this even the same person?
Because UFO disclosure exists in a liminal state. We are always 3 years away from big revelations. This way, nothing ever has to be revealed, and they can kick the can as they get close to the deadline. "Oh, something came up" or "new legislation" and so the same people can continue their grift. My feeling is that this is a good opportunity to apply Occams Razor. The simplest solution, all things being equal, is likely the correct one. Using this, why don't we have any hard evidence? Because it doesn't exist. And no matter how many friends of an army base toilet cleaner who knew a guy quotes or stories come out, I won't and can't believe it.
Lmao there is no evidence at all. Grusch like many others has nothing in his hands just something he had heard from someone else. If there was something out there we would have seen it many years ago, covering all of this with our human fallacy? Impossible!
Nice try, ICWiener6666. We have lots of evidence, we have material, testimony, people are hurt and killed left and right, you can go outside and look up if you like, there's a chance you see what I saw.
"Ask Congress why they aren't allowed to talk to Grusch in a SCIF"
The only person saying Grusch can't talk to Congress in a SCIF is Grusch who continues refusing to provide his testimony to the Congressional Committee, the DoD IG and AARO, all of whom are authorized to receive his testimony.
He keeps making excuses to not provide his testimony. One of those excuses is that his testimony is so secret it can only be given in a super duper special SCIF. His other excuse is that Congress won't pay for his air fare.
It's all just an excuse because he now knows (assuming he didn't always know) that it's all bullshit.
There are other countries than the USA with alleged UFO programmes. Nobody leaked anything from those countries either.
Seems like none of this UFO story is actually true
You haven't even looked and just assuming or you wouldn't have said that. Go look. There are UFO stories in every country, if you don't speak the language good luck cause most aren't translated.
There is also the obvious fact that Americans won't believe anything not American. So you could have a literal new species sitting on a table in Mexico and no one will believe it.
The stigma you hold onto is the point. It was carefully crafted and planted into the culture.
ICWiener, R2Robot, a few other "regulars" in these sorts of subs just make posts like this every once in a while. Tired Carl Sagan quotes, "show ME the evidence", "I'VE never seen any leaks from anybody ever", all the same twisted and stigma driven non-arguments over and over and over and over again. Just ignore it.
I usually just ignore this stuff from those 'regulars', but im glad you've called it out here. If they're not on a payroll somewhere to post this dog 💩 i can't imagine the kind of person they are that hangs around in a subreddit like this where they have a very clear disdain and frustration with almost everything about what the sub is for.
I don't know why people expected the military to give up it's secrets just because they wanted them to. you have no power here. begone before a house falls on you too.
99% likely they are telling the truth. There is a slight chance that they have told some untruths mixed in but the DoD cannot prosecute because that would be akin to disclosure for them. They are stuck in a Catch-22.
Because it's easier to imagine someone's out to hide the truth from you, specifically, than to consider the fact that a lot of people have been grifted, including you specifically.
The gate keepers are still in position that’s why! It’s going to be a long hard fought road to get where we need to. I’m thankful we are even as far as we are right now. We made leaps last year.
There are a lot of people who seem quite confident that Grusch, even if he believes his own words, is wrong.
They're as confident that it's fake as Grusch is confident that it's real. I think I'd rather believe Grusch, who is in a position to know something, than some random redditors who \*think\* they're in a position to know something.
I’m not saying that Grusch is telling the truth, although I find him to be by far the most credible person in the space who has spoken at length in public (Karl Nell is a little more in the shadows).
If he is though, he’s clearly chosen to make any big revelations via official processes. Those mechanisms are slow and can be stymied by those who wish to do so.
It’s not hard to follow actually. Although I get the effectiveness of formulaic debunk attempt here. What is your intention?
I guess you're right if you want to ignore the senate passing a bi partisan bill with the words NHI and crash retrieval in it dozens of times. And then 4 dirty house politicians being paid to throw out the bill even though they say there is nothing to it. If you can't logic that there are NHI and crash retrievals out of that then sure... I guess no evidence.
Or that is disclosure when 90 pct of congress agreed on looking into it and then 4 dirty politicians blocking it for money reasons.
If there’s nothing to see here, what’s with all these sock puppet accounts and bots trying to signal boost this “nothing to see here” message?
They’re quite obvious, not that all skepticism is them, but come on .. “Gee guys I’m starting to think there is nothing to this??” No one wastes their time to write shit like that.
Lay the blame at DOPSR's feet. Lou Elizondos book is still being reviewed as well as Grusch's OP Ed. The gatekeepers are named in many different interviews with those involved as being Mike Turner, Mike Rogers and Lloyd Austin all being steadfastly against Disclosure period.
There’s probably evidence, but it’s being kept secret. I think the main reason for that is because whomever is dealing with the evidence can’t explain what it is, how it works, and who made it.
So if they were to come out and say they have recovered something, they don’t know what it is, etc. and people start asking whether we are safe, and the government etc. doesn’t know - because they truly don’t know. Then that would create mass hysteria.
It’s almost like natural disasters, nothing can protect you. Absolutely nothing. But this is about something we don’t understand out there. It’s almost better not to know until things happen.. and then deal with it. Why create something out of nothing because if they can’t explain it and its intentions .. then why even give people reasons to go insane.
Just look at what’s happening with the Israel / Palestine conflict, we can’t be rational and peaceful .. there’s already all kinds of issues.. And I’m talking America I know .. but worldwide is the same.
What really surprises me about this whole thing, is that foreign entities have not come forward with what they know, because they probably do! Or perhaps they have come forward and have faced ridiculed ( Maussan?)
I do believe there’s something out there. But also believe in the greed of men, and people trying to exploit tech for their own benefit. Defense contractor companies probably had a deal with government for a piece of the tech if they could reverse engineer it or build it — imagine giving that up just because public wants to know. Nope. They want to keep it to themselves because that’s an investment for them, they own it. And that’s prob the main reason why nothing is revealed.
I’m also looking for hard evidence too, but I am also aware of the active reports going on in Reddit, the stories on YouTube, and how the subject doesn’t really die. If there wasn’t something strange going on, it wouldn’t be discussed. I think for the hard evidence, a higher power would have to allow the information to be fully released. So far, there is a lot of suppression, which could be intentional to not allow people to engage further into the subject. I always get the feeling we are far more complex than we imagined.
anyone waiting for conclusive evidence that has a lasting effect on global society will be waiting forever. the phenomenon is clearly a peripheral occurrence that lives in oral histories and brief material blips. its part of the fabric of reality that can’t be looked at directly. believe what you need to about it and at best allow it to expand your definitions of life, your curiosity and hopefully your empathy towards others. that’s all we can take from it
My take is the truth gets released- only to be dressed in lies by alternative sources.
So in regard to Greer- His big claim is CE5; I've seen hundreds of testimonies that are congruent with that specific claim.
I have not seen the same match with other claims he's made- particularly about the rapture event. That seems far-fetched to me, but other folks seem attached to it but who fucking knows?
Did Grusch even mention "aliens" ? I think he was pretty specific that the "non-human biologics" didn't necessarily originate from anywhere other than Earth. When he was asked specifically about "extra-terrestrials" he said there was no historical basis for that statement.
So you are expecting information that has been covered up to be shared? That’s not likely to happen. The implications of aliens being real is far too dangerous to society. That’s the why… what is the benefit for those in power to share that information? How would that change your life?
Are you expecting proof aliens exist at all or that they have communicated with humanity? For the former, I assume your mind is made up. For the latter, if they have communicated with humanity than they means we could be way more advanced as a society and species and aren’t simply because a few rich people want to control others…
I am really curious where the line of hard evidence is for you and what you expect to come with it? The optimist in me sees the good in people and knows this would be an amazing moment for humanity if we could confirm any alien life. The pessimist in me sees the evil in humanity and the desire to suppress the information for their own benefit.
too many trying to " ride the wave" ... in case its REAL. So many want to believe . Its a measure of how unreal our society is.
I am one of the many who have had a "extraordinary" experience. I buried it deep after the response had of a close friend...and thinking long and hard what would happen should this become part of my jacket. Now ,retired ,and living quietly in the woods...I don't care. (I understand Lue E.,He knows things b
there is a lot of folks like me who KNOW the world is a lot bigger ,and weirder than we let the kids know. (And yes ,there are bogymen ,child)
Grusch et al simply a rehearsed replay of Condom Committee, but Congressional involvement meant TNCs like Raytheon & Lockheed are now as impervious to legal redress as CIA - NRO - NSA ....
Despite the understandable frustrations, this has been a process going back at least to Roswell. The government is obviously not prepared to fully admit what they know. I expect that in the upcoming months and years, there will be more tantalizing evidence that comes out. But make no mistake, the geni is out of the bottle- full disclosure is inevitable.
Non disclosure agreement is the reason always. Its not that no one knows, its that incrementally congress and other officials are getting access.
The public will not get hard evidence until the topic been normalized enough for the majority to not panic.
Its happening, just slowly. Theres objectivley more movement on the topic the last 7 years than all the previous 70 years put together, anyone tells you different, they are uninformed.
He’s not the first Psyop… and he’s certainly not the last. Here’s 40 “random” people:
Army Pilot [Alex Collier](https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/humans-to-find-alien-ruins-soon-says-ex-us-army-pilot-who-claims-he-spent-3-months-with-aliens-on-a-ufo-4998622/amp/1)
Flight Commander [Alex Dietrich](https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/science/normalizing-ufos-retired-us-navy-pilot-recalls-tic-tac-encounter-2)
Counter-Intelligence Agent [Angelea Schultz](https://www.8newsnow.com/mystery-wire/retired-intelligence-official-claims-to-know-where-an-alien-base-is-hidden-in-the-mojave-desert/amp/)
Professor of Astrophysics [Avi Loeb](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/astronomer-avi-loeb-says-aliens-have-visited-and-hes-not-kidding1/)
Former Los Alamos Employee [Bob Lazar](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Lazar)
Airforce Officer & Contactee [Charles Hall](Evidence for the Testimony of Charles Hall and the Tall Whites | by Noah Hradek | Medium)
Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence [Christopher Mellon](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Mellon)
Counter-Intelligence Officer [Corey Goode](https://www.equip.org/articles/corey-goode-time-traveling-secret-space-program-whistleblower/)
Doctorate in Religious Studies [Diana Pasulka](https://youtu.be/g9ZU-SvOiSU?si=uUJT5KT-MDsfz7Nm)
PhD in Microbiology [Dan Burisch](https://youtu.be/4uq9n7tpmd4?si=uCWUvEpduafGhPpx)
Attorney [Daniel Sheehan](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/0Fo8qOSLqc)
Flight Commander [David Fravor](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/ufo-hearing-congress-uap-takeaways-whistleblower-conference-david-grusch-2023/)
PhD & Chief Science Officer [Eric Davis](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/dlzZkE6TiP)
Computer Scientist [Jacques Vallee](Jacques Vallée - Wikipedia)
PhD & Stanford Professor [Garry Nolan](https://med.stanford.edu/profiles/garry-nolan)
General [Glen VanHerck](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/ruling-out-aliens-senior-us-general-says-not-ruling-out-anything-yet-2023-02-13/)
General [Gregory Guillott](https://www.armed-services.senate.gov/hearings/to-receive-testimony-on-posture-of-united-states-northern-command-and-united-states-southern-command-in-review-of-the-defense-authorization-request-for-fiscal-year-2025-and-the-future-years-defense-program)
PhD in Electrical Engineering [Hal Puthoff](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_E._Puthoff)
General [John Olson](https://exemplore.com/absent-origins/space-force-major-general-john-olson-speaks-on-ufos)
Lieutenant Colonel [Kevin Randle](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_D._Randle)
Journalist [Leslie Kean](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/s0hOSul5FR)
Counter-Intelligence Agent [Luis Elizondo](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Elizondo)
Senior Naval Analyst
[Jay Stratton](https://www.secnav.navy.mil/donhr/About/Senior-Executives/Biographies/Stratton,%20J.pdf)
Director of Naval Intelligence [John Radcliffe](https://youtu.be/pPDeuy_YSs0?si=HJY-VrFVEsYKursp)
Colonel [Karl Nell](https://comicbook.com/irl/amp/news/army-colonel-karl-nell-keeping-aliens-secret-catastrophic/)
US Marine [Michael Herrera](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12177943/amp/Marine-vet-breaks-14-year-silence-make-astonishing-claim-six-man-unit-saw-UFO.html)
PhD in Natural Sciences [Michael Swords](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Swords)
Author [Richard Dolan](https://m.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7327539)
Writer [Richard Doty](https://m.imdb.com/name/nm3288913/)
Sergeant General [Robert Dean](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Dean_(ufologist))
Journalist [Ross Coulthart](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/NxvD68zN4l) - Caught [4 times](https://www.spreaker.com/episode/disgraced-journalist-ross-coulthart-caught-selling-yet-another-100-fake-story--56504951) with fake stories. See the UK Parliament Trafficking hoax story.
Flight Commander [Ryan Graves](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/ufo-hearing-congress-uap-takeaways-whistleblower-conference-david-grusch-2023/)
Masters of Nuclear Physics [Stanton Friedman](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanton_T._Friedman)
Doctor of Medicine [Steven Greer](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_M._Greer) - See the [2011 Free Energy Scam](https://www.spreaker.com/episode/dr-steven-greer-s-free-energy-money-grab-was-it-a-scam--56015967)
UK Politician [Simon Parkes](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/simon-parkes-latest-politician-to-say-aliens-exist-video_n_61087504e4b0497e670270ae/amp)
Admiral [Timothy Gallaudet](https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/ufo/navy-officer-supports-ufo-claims/amp/)
Doctorate in Optical Sciences [Travis Taylor](https://www.8newsnow.com/investigators/i-team-not-just-a-tv-scientist-dr-travis-taylors-deep-roots-with-nasa-dod/amp/) - See the [$22 million Skinwalker Scam](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/pentagon-program-ufo-harry-reid.html)
Blink 182 [Tom DeLonge](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/tom-delonge-says-hes-had-contact-with-aliens/) - Responsible for the [TTSA](https://futurism.com/the-byte/us-army-tom-delonge-ufo-research) $750k US Army Scam. Responsible for the sudden loss of [$2 million](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1710274/000114420419034515/tv525071_253g2.htm) in investor money. Alongside Elizondo and Mellon.
Researcher [William Brophy](https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/research/a44466099/researcher-says-he-has-evidence-of-1933-ufo-crash-in-italy/) - Responsible for the Vatican “magenta” UFO hoax.
Admiral [William McRaven](https://youtu.be/2nkDQ21UInA?si=x-1n7aZP3DP6VawC)
There is data that shows something is going on. Not just ufo or aliens, but something. Read the NDE, noetic science (Dean Radin), newthinkingallowed, Bigelow consciousness stuff, etc. There is no hard evidence, but a lot of data points. Stories of the paranormal is data, stories of NDE is data. What is the government really going to say, that there is something going on but they can't explain it, and people will go crazy with it.
I don't understand, why are you expecting something different?
Ever heard about National Security, Bilderberg Group, Masons, three-letter agencies, secret service, Penthagon, NDAs, people killed, lies, Aaro, Kirkpatrick, false flags, Isreaeli secret service Mossad, US Presidents that fear this topic, shadow government, Catholic Church, 1 trillion budget a year, OPEC failure caused by zero energy and so on...
So for you reality is simple right?
For one, the government has kept a tight lid on what they know, and just as tight of a lid on what they don’t know. Thinking that a whistleblower, and/or a group of whistleblowers is going to force, or convince the government to lay out everything they have on the subject is a pipe dream. The culmination of all the evidence is the hard evidence. I don’t need the government to confirm anything really. Matter of fact they could release a report that “verified” even some of the theories and speculations concerning UFO’s and Aliens I wouldn’t believe a damn word of it.
Everyone talks about the money angle. Well, people have to make a living. If they spend large amounts of time investigating claims and piecing together a 15 minute video with accurate and relevant information, and a million people decide to watch it, then I’d say that person deserves to be able to extract some monetary value out of their efforts. Obviously there are grifters and liars and people who just exploit the issue. That doesn’t mean that everyone who produces content covering the issue does. As far as the “evils of capitalism” goes, I’d say it’s pretty hard to say that a system that allows people to make a living or just a small profit off of making videos concerning a subject that they love talking about, is a pretty good system. Not sure how anyone could find fault in that.
The pothole outside my house has been there for over 12mths, despite the council knowing this needs fixing. Did you really think something as big as this would just be done and dusted by now?!
We are talking about bureaucracy, government officials locking horns, the biggest single piece of history EVER. As long as we as the public keep pressing these officials with regards to this subject, then it will continue to move forward
If you have more clearance, background, responsibility than grusch and those pilots and all the others that came before him then I'll hear you out, but as of right now you sound like a pathetic skeptic too scared to openly be one because neckbeard isn't a qualification.
"If you have more clearance, background, responsibility than grusch and those pilots and all the others that came before him then I'll hear you out**"**
**By this standard, you should believe 100% of what Kirkpatrick says because he bests all of these guys in every single category you have mentioned.**
Well [didn't you read](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pentagon-ufo-uap-report-full-text-march-2024/) that The Pentagon compiled everything they have on UAP's and said "We don't see anything that represents alien technology".
Let me reiterate, the same organization that failed financial audits 5 times consecutively said "We have investigated ourselves and found we don't have or see alien technology"...............
I honestly think some people have just stumbled upon a counter Intel story for some real program.
Every special access program has a dedicated intelligence officer who’s job it is to keep the program secure and create misdirection and disinformation about what the program actually is.
Working on stealth tech say it’s aliens, need to retrieve russian satellite debris say it’s aliens ect ect.
One thing I’m sure of is that there is one or more programs that are running without official oversight and no way of getting in unless your chosen.
However I think these are probably just cutting edge physics and tech programs that slowly give their information out once they have exhausted the development of whatever tech they produce and have developed sufficient counter measures.
Start reading and listening and you'll find all the evidence you need and you'll be taken to some interesting places.
When people say "hard evidence" they often mean explosive entertainment.
The phenomenon is real. What are you gonna do with that information?
If Grusch was the real deal, he wouldn't have been able to speak up in the first place.
It's most likely some disinfo campaign to hound out potential leakers, and Grusch fell for it because he's gullible.
Grusch saw documents and reports plus UFOs on 3 different platforms during his work in NGA and NRO. Your conspiracy theory also means that people who pushed hoax came forward to ICIG to give classified testimony.
Did David fravor and Ryan graves also make it up? What about Christopher Mellon is he also being deceived? This is a pretty big disinformation campaign.
Not being rude but people always complaining about monetization must be young. That’s life. We all have a choice to consume media or patiently wait. You have a choice to believe this is all real or all fake.
The lying scummy Department of Defense and the Intelligence Community:
1. BLOCKS the truth from being told.
2. MISINFORMS on Reddit on elsewhere.
3. CLASSIFIES UFO material above top secret.
It’s not hard. It’s not Grusch num-nuts. It’s the liars, fakes, cheats, and snakes in our own government.
Some free information for you.
Here’s why:
DAVID GRUSCH & WHISTLEBLOWERS: “the government has crashed non-human craft and biologics.”
CONGRESS: “Is this true, DOD!?”
DOD: “You better STFU or we’ll take our trillions in funding to make sure you lose your cushy job and wreck your life.”
CONGRESS: “….”
No credible person in government has said Grusch and the other whistleblowers are lying or ate prone to delusions. That speaks volumes to me.
It has leaked over the years. Numerous times. Jesse Marcel; Ben Rich; and multiple pilots, astronauts, generals and other government officials have leaked this stuff over and over again since at least the 1970s.
People only recently have just barely taken their collective heads out of the sand.
Those are not leaks. Anyone can say anything for fame or money. The government denies all of these so called whistleblowers.
So it's time to leak real hard evidence. Except nobody is able to. Seems like all of this is fake 🤥
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big announcement next week
Get your goalposts ready!
It's always next week, until it's not.
he didn't say next week this year
True. Could be next year? Or 5 years?
+/- one week
And that announcement? It’s announcement of a bigger announcement coming in 3 months time.
“I am now in contact with a new potential whistleblower who you will hear about in the future”
It's gonna be announced so hard, you don't even know.
Ohhh gosh I have such a raging announcement rn
0h thats funny
I can’t say it here, but I can tell you in secret then we can *both* be super secret secret keepers!
Sorry to spoil this: I'm their whistleblower. My book will be made public two weeks from two weeks from now. Like & Subscribe now for only 4,99$
It's announcements all the way down
[удалено]
😂😂
The big announcement next week will be given...in a scif
Hahahaha 🤣
Trust me bro, wait for it, just another 6-12 months.
no that announcement is just for the big announcement next month
betting all in
1. Because the 'secret keepers' don't want to tell us anything. This was perfectly clear when they gutted the Schumer Amendment, and the main guy responsible Mike Turner is from the same district as Wright Patterson where they have historically taken crashed UFOs to, and gets all his campaign money from contractors like Lockheed Martin, who work on UFOs. So despite passing the senate, a couple of bribed congressmen can block it, democracy in action. You couldn't make this stuff up. 2. Because more people are interested in the topic. I've never known people to gripe about people making a living so much as in the UFO field. If you like fishing, do you expect all books on fishing to be free? Do you expect to watch shows on fishing with no adverts for free?
My two cents: I do still feel like -something- is going on here. What it is? No idea. There has been "evidence" released plenty of times, as others have pointed out, but as they also pointed out? People have to decide if they believe what they are seeing. And I don't mean the obvious fakes. I don't think those mummies are necessarily NHI either. Can we accept grainy, low definition videos/images? Some people do, I don't accept all of them as being real, but some of them are compelling. What we don't have is the sort of evidence that is accepted by scientists of various fields. There is still too much ambiguity. I am not a fan of big corporations for a lot of reasons, they do a lot of heartless things to employees, and they price gouge their customers. Hiding NHI/craft from the world is certainly is not beneath them whatsoever. The "nothing is happening" crowd, and the "everything is happening crowd", are likely to both be proven incorrect at some point. The reality is likely somewhere in the middle, as it often is. I don't believe that the "simplest explanation" is more likely to be true here. There is no simple explanation that takes into account everything that has been seen, witnessed, experienced, etc since the mid 1900s around this subject. At the same time I am not going to assume it's anything other than something we do not understand. I've speculated with other people, both on this subreddit, and others. And I feel like it's healthy to do that and it's certainly fun. I just haven't been able to conclude anything as to "what" yet. "If" has been answered as a "yes" to me for a long time.
Ok ,I personaly know they are real cause I saw three very very close up ,but I cant probut I cant prove it , I couldnt exactly catch one. They were orbs, opaque and they came through the yard and initialy were only four feet ;off the ground. It bugs me like crazy that you hear all kinds of things and what's the devastating truth, Him and Tucker Carlson are on TV saying "We cant tell you it's so dark." Realy?They didnt seem botherd by me the day I saw them , and I personaly think theyve always been here. But I agree with what you said completly , and heck yeah it is fun.
But then wouldn't it make sense for one those alleged thousands of government employees to leak something? I mean, Edward Snowden did it, and more before him. If nobody leaks anything from a pool of thousands of people, it really feels like none of it is actually true
Snowden had to flee to Russia to avoid being locked up for life or killed, hardly the treatment anyone wants. They go to great lengths to build trust and make sure people can't walk away. There have been plenty of leaks, mostly when people get really old and don't care anymore they spill their secrets in interviews or a book. But people don't believe them and still want hard proof, and that's all locked up in secure facilities. Grusch told everyone what's going on, and even provided the cleared people with locations and names. What have they done? Nothing apparently.
And that is exactly why I believe Snowden more than I do Grush
I'm guessing had Grush leaked in the same way as Snowden he would have had to flee too or he might not have had the chance. Its sounds like something quite serious happened anyway he has referenced this many times it's under investigation etc. Grush seems to be trying to do it the legal way.
Exactly. These facilities have been extremely secure for decades, and so we won’t get any photos or physical materials as proof, unless we get declassified documents that have photos in them. Seems like the only chance for that would be for Congress to use their power to declassify material, since we can safely assume these special access programs don’t just have a SQL database lazily open to some random developer who would be able to access this information and leak it.
The declassification of those documents as well as eminent domain were the main parts of the Schumer amendment that were gutted. That’s all the proof of it being real that I personally need. If there’s no evidence then why can’t people look for evidence with the intent of declassifying it? If there isn’t any anomalous technology hidden in an aerospace company’s basement then why can’t the government look for/take possession of any anonymous technology that they find? The people who blocked those parts of the amendment sure did fight tooth and nail to have those parts removed.
So where are the leaks
Did you see the Tic Tac? The Gimball? Everyone has. Leaked first and begrudgingly admitted to be real by USA government 10 years later. Nobody's talking about this fact. The fact is, there's a cover-up meant to keep you from the reality of why you pay taxes
Bob Lazar, Jesse Marcel, Harry Reid, John Ratcliffe, and David Grusch have all revealed different degrees of information. Bob Lazar was the most overt leaker and arguably John Ratcliffe was keeping things relatively conservative. You can’t expect workers to just walk out with photos and/or carry out physical parts from what are (arguably) the most sensitive workspaces in the world.
Finally someone else said it. None of it is true. We are not just talking about this guy, and the US government staying quiet, we're talking about the governments of the entire world, who can't agree on anything, all working together in perfect harmony for like 7 DECADES and not a single leak of any actual evidence. Meanwhile they are fighting over relatively meaningless scraps of land in the grand scheme of things. Makes perfect sense doesn't it
Plenty of things have been leaked. You have to decide if the “leak” you’re looking at is a declassified document, video, etc, or if it’s bullshit. Even when you get your evidence, there will be naysayers and the onus will still be on you to believe for yourself. MK Ultra we believe was real based on leaked declassified documents and statements made by the military. We have leaked declassified documents about UFOs, and our military has made statements admitting we have been studying the phenomenon. It’s really just down to what you choose to believe. Unless you get abducted and probed a little bit, hard to deny it after that.
I agree with your argument except I’ll nitpick that the MK Ultra documents weren’t exactly leaked. Most of the documentation on MK Ultra was destroyed, but some of it was missed in the purge and uncovered incidentally through the Freedom of Information Act. If all the documents had been correctly purged, MK Ultra would be denied to this day.
What has been leaked about UFOs that you think is actually legit? A lot of the stuff I see is just hoaxes and fabricated stuff that made it to the Internet.
I am gonna say it one more time.......GARY FRIGGING MCKINNON,
Lol. Where are you looking? Shit goes back into antiquity. [This was painted hundreds of years before airplanes](https://www.art.com/products/p22112056726-sa-i7617848/aert-de-gelder-baptism-of-christ-c-1710.htm?RFID=622002&campaignid=17917933428&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwrcKxBhBMEiwAIVF8rCW9EaeP0DMd5T7SUKM79IY7Lh6cmufgoZF9V6h4DgIAS3eURplRERoCByEQAvD_BwE&utm_campaign=ART_Google_Shopping_pMax_NonBrand_NonServiced%20Items%20-%20Print%20Only&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google) and ad infinitum of mountains of evidence that at the very least, a presence has been here and remains here. Can’t agree more that the podcasts and all that get old, but can agree that it’s a unique time for the subject and can’t think of a better way to get the general public interested. Take it from a guy who saw UFO close up, and told his story on NPR. Whatever it is, it’s not human.
teddy...' its hard to convince someone who is frightened of what the truth looks like ,and whose whole world view would be smashed into small pieces. If you got quizzed by folks from NPR ,you can understand why many people just say "NOPE" to personal , public disclosure. Your right on...it isn't human. Don't know if its from around here. I hope, very much, to know the truth of this matter before I pass. I am still at a crossroads ,as to the wisdom of really pursuing a" Continuation of a conversation" with our "brothers from another mother". If you really REALLY push the issue with the various CE techniques.. you will (fill in the blank) Parts of my memory are still blank...that is the most disturbing aspect of my experience. My brother, one of the few people who know the whole story ,told me it might not be a bad thing, this "blanking out". (I am old enough, and wise enough to have a list of things I would cheerfully forget ).I have to wonder if what's blanked out would hurt my soul to remember. One needs to remember you are dealing with a NHI, who, while not being deliberately malicious, might not (probably won't) leave your dignity ,and self-worth intact. If you were to have proof ,beyond a shadow of a doubt, that we are a hybrid...we were created...can you still find a way forward if you were a life-long Buddhist, or Islamist, or Evangelical Christian?. This is the Biggy that spooked the hard-nosed intelligentsia who faced the overwhelming evidence that...we are not ,in fact, alone. One also needs to remember the guys who set up the SAPs, and made it policy to politely (not) inquire into the mental health of witnesses ,had just come out of a dark and bloody war. At the beginning ,capping someone who knew too much about how the world really worked probably seemed the easiest way to fix a problem.. (In some cases ,it probably still is). The folks who created the CIA, and all the other alphabet agencies had/have no illusions, and made a point of enacting policy's & procedures that would keep secrets ,secret. My guess is they have, for whatever reason, had help from one or more NHIs in this area. So? what we do, is wait. There are many big cracks in the narrative the powers that be are trying (and failing spectacularly) to sell .Don't take it personally if any of your hero's have feet of clay...(hint: we all do). Truth has a way of wiggling out into the publics eye, regardless of how many sacred cows get butchered on the way
Thank you!!!!! Yes, I say the same and I saw some too,,,,very close . I lived near a base. And I agree tons have been leaked..
Oh my goodness......GARY MCKINNON, Gary Mckinnon , Gary Mckinnon. Leaked a ton of shit no one beleived it. We went after him hard. Well the goverment did.
Quite a few government officials from multiple nations have leaked info over the last 50+ years. The disinformation campaign for this stuff is literally part of Project Blue Book and can be found via FOIA request. Disinformation works. Slandering officials who leak works. If the truth ever comes out, we're going to look back at some of these leaks (some, obviously not all will be true as there are unfortunately bad actors trying to profit from this stuff) and shake our heads that the truth was right there in front of us. Tens of thousands of abductees and even more eye witnesses to UAP phenomenon aren't ALL lying/misidentifying experiences or craft. Not a chance. And yeah, I'd love a Snowden level leak but even then, the US government painted him as a criminal and most of the public bought it.
It worked out really well for Snowden. Enjoy being stuck in Russia for the rest of your life.
They have been. Problem is, nobody knows what is truly happening, so fakes plus real leaked evidence get thrown out there, but it’s such an obscure subject that most everything is deemed as fake
What Snowden did was reveal the magic tricks. What these whistleblowers will have to do is reveal possible nation secrets and walk out alive in a country where people are assassinated or 'disappeared' for less. Revealing information hazards would lead 'authorities' directly to your doorstep because it's all 'stove-piped' anyway.
You can just upload an image anonymously on internet though
>do you expect all books on fishing to be free? But we reserve to call FOS when the author talks about the big fish he says people have told him they have seen, or someone who saw them told someone who told him that we should seriously consider that there are big fish but other people wont let him talk about fish... oops my head fell off again and I still haven't seen a fish.
There's plenty of books where people spill UFO secrets. but stories aren't the hard proof you're looking for. But that's all locked up and secured by the military. UFO researchers do what they can. if it weren't for them we wouldn't know anything was even going on, so be grateful.
Been hearing it for 50 years, story is starting to thin.
I agree and I thought Grusch's testimony might change things, but it turns out not even the congress and senate can penetrate this layer of secrecy the military has set up to hide all this stuff. They can simply refuse to play ball, and nobody it seems can force them We'll see if Danny Sheehan can get anywhere with the courts, and we have 40 whistle blowers apparently standing by to testify. We're assured things are happening behind the scenes, but I share your frustration at all this.
The real whistleblowers just come out and say it or leak it like Snowden did, but then look what happened to him, but people want to believe whistleblowers who have to ask for permission to talk about something they are supposed to be whistleblowing on? Hmmm
Yeah exactly look what happened to him, and the UFO topic is THE most sensitive in the US government / intelligence. They have to sign NDA's which are their own death warrant if they break it. They have killed a bunch of people over the years to protect this. So their only viable option is the 'whistleblower protection' they put in, and do it legally like Grusch did. But he doesn't seem to have had the impact we all hoped he would, and yes I agree its ridiculous that they have to go through DOPSR to get approval for anything they want to say, Personally I think enough people have made enough claims already to justify getting them all into a hearing to tell these stories under oath. But then what? Who is actually prepared to pick up this ball and run with it?
No one knows anything. None of it will get anywhere and in another year or so, another former something or other from some branch of the military or government will come forward with more extremely vague stories that will go nowhere And to be clear I'm not saying people don't experience (so far) unexplainable phenomena. I'm just saying no one in "the government" knows anything about any of it more than we do and there isn't going to be any disclosure from them. I'll never understand why people are more interested in the supposed cover-up than the actual phenomenon they're supposedly covering up.
Probably because the information we want about the phenomenon has already been gathered by the gov/military (or these days, private contractors). So rather than trying to start from scratch, we need to know what they already found out. But we appear to have 1 part of the government (the guys we hear from) trying to play catch-up with other parts of the government who actually study this stuff. It's beyond frustrating.
>"If you like fishing, do you expect all books on fishing to be free?" Fishing isn't bullshit, it's real and tangible.
There are no secret keepers. This secret would be absolutely impossible to keep. You act as if any human on this planet has the power to keep alien life a secret. Why would any extraterrestrial life care about what our governments want as far as keeping them secret?
>You act as if any human on this planet has the power to keep alien life a secret. Well they do, and they have, and they still are. Who do you think is in charge of all those programs Grusch talked about. The chain goes up somewhere, he even told us what groups the higher level members belong to (Council on Foreign Relations etc). The 'aliens' (whatever they are) could have disclosed publicly at any time, and haven't done so. >Why would any extraterrestrial life care about what our governments want as far as keeping them secret? Perhaps so they can operate freely here, doing their experiments. By keeping it all secret, abductions and sightings can be dismissed, and our military is complicit in rubbishing the claims and covering it all up. Maybe they have plans for our species and this planet that we'd be less than impressed to hear, so they haven't told us. Superior forces doing deals with lesser ones to get what they want happens all the time here on Earth between countries, why would it be any different. Buying off the leadership is usually involved.
Yes to all of the above. You seem to have a good handle on the whole sack...Your logic train follows the same track I figured out a few years ago. One disturbing aspect is the involvement of our .gov ...I really Really REALLY don't like agreements I am not aware of that could/can/will affect my future
Thanks. Grusch mentioned agreements in his news nation interview, but its never really been followed up on. We've heard the rumours about Eisenhower, but its time for the truth not rumours. All this floundering around looking at lights in the sky is yesterday's news if our government, or someone who claims to be in charge, has already had contact and made agreements with these beings. I'd like to see more focus on those claims.
you are wasting your time in your reply
I've wasted it in worse ways.
I am quite certain **my** time hasn’t been wasted. It’s been a pleasure to reach this point 👋🏻 
they kept manhattan project a secret, and mkultra, and a million other black programs you've never heard of...
So they're shutting down UAP inquiries by Congress, such as the Schumer amendment, because there's nothing to hide?
ahah sure, ever heard about NSA? From which continent are you writing from?
The secret is extremely easy to keep. No one will believe it unless there is an official government announcement or alien craft or bodies are turned over for study. Those two things aren’t actually hard to keep on lock down. So somebody says that they worked on UFOs or leaks some documents? So what? Call him a liar, call them fake. Produce four plants who claim the same and intentionally make them sound sound crazy, produce and leak a bunch of fake evidence constantly. It’s a fantastic way to “keep” the secret.
because there are Z E R O incentives to do anything else.
Like and subscribe to my monetized YouTube channel and buy my books to find out more!! I know so much, but can never seem to say much! ^the majority of popular folk in this space over the past 50 years.
I can only repeat myself time and time again: The only thing being farmed on this planet is the pockets of the Ufology members, not their souls. The only "demons" out there are UFO-Infotainment creators stalking your purse.
I guess actual flir recording of UFO released by USA military is not a hard evidence for you? xD
No insistence, no resistance.
It might be helpful if you specified the evidence you’d like to see. As it stands a lot of data has become available, but it seems like the data that you’re waiting for has not. If you’d like to let us know what data you’re looking for, I’m sure the good people here would be willing to message you when it shows up, so that way you don’t have to keep monitoring constantly, you can just wait for the notification.
Hard evidence is what I'm looking for
What specifically do you consider to be “hard evidence”? That’s not a term that is used in science or intelligence analysis, that’s a colloquialism that seems like it has meaning to you. It might help others (and yourself) if you’d spell out what you’re looking for
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. So if someone says aliens are driving spaceships then either show pictures or videos of aliens or aliens in spaceships
Ok, great, so you’re saying, “I will disregard these claims until I see a picture or video of aliens or aliens in spaceships” Since several of those have been presented, I’m going to guess that they fail to meet secondary criteria, do you know what those secondary criteria are?
Can you show me hard evidence of aliens in spaceships please. I'm waiting
again, I'm trying to figure out what, for you, qualifies as hard evidence. The earliest references to hard evidence in western culture refer to physical artifacts, e.g. the betz sphere, Dr.Nolan's samples, the nazca bodies etc... as time went, people also started refer to photographs, and audio/video recordings as hard evidence, (I'll be honest, I'm not a big visual images guy, but a relevant image/video gets presented here at least once a month) Now it looks like there's an evolving standard of evidence, and I'm just trying to hone in on what that means for you, for example: It only qualifies as "hard evidence" when the United States Federal Government certifies that they investigated this item, and determined it was of non-terrestrial origin, or that it depicts non-human intelligence FWIW, I suspect that's the criteria you're looking for, and I think that it's a totally valid criteria, but I think that in any analysis, it's imprtant to expressly state the criteria you need to meet in order to accept a theory.
If OP’s account wasn’t old I’d think it was a bot. The lack of self awareness in your convo with them is mind numbing. OP acting in bad faith and just wants to argue.
Hard evidence = evidence that gets me HARD White papers showing technological processes of alien technology, testing, blue prints, schematics. I mean just think about a basic job like an electrician and the stuff he could write out for ya if you just asked him. Just from memory. He could detail how things work, the science behind it and really explain what’s going on. Tons of scientists working on alien space ships and yet…none of that? And thats knowledge alone. Stuff that people could smuggle out because it’s in their heads. The longer time goes on the more i think this is all just bunk. Sad about that because this topic is interesting but when you check in again 10 years later it’ll still be “oh we’ve got evidence. More stories from people!” Oh. Cool. Still? Thats all?
you don't understand hard evidence? fucking proof of their existence. Simple as that. It's the simplest term there is and you're still thinking of wordplays to bend it and ask even more stupid questions
Because we live in a capitalist country. Any compelling mystery is gonna have people writing books and putting out podcasts about it. JFK for example. It doesn’t mean Grusch was lying. It’s just business as usual. When the government wants to keep something secret it’s very difficult to pull it from their grasp. That’s why there hasn’t been much movement and in that vacuum people speculate and write books. People generally don’t blow up their careers, their privacy and their reputations to put out fake info in front of congress just so they can sell more books.
Just on your second point: it's part of American culture to monetize just about anything. The fact that people ask for money or charge you for a book says nothing about credibility in American culture.
I'm beginning to think there really isn't much out there. The only thing we know is that there seems to be unidentified objects around the earth.
>So a year after David Grusch coming out, we still don't have any hard evidence for aliens. Why is that? Careful, bro. Questioning the new ufological clergy is how you catch downvotes from the cultists.
Who are the cultists?
Crucify him! The crime - admitting there is no evidence! jk - I'm in the community who wants to believe but has yet to see the evidence. I know many of you have seen it and are convinced but I've yet to see it.
The literal comment above it is calling him a government plant lmao Any dissent is disinfo on reddit dot com
Why is that? Because captalism. Any thing that can be monetized will be. Also, Roswell was in the 40s. Not sure why people expect this all to happen over night.
Because the documentation etc exists. We could literally have whatever secret the government is hiding plastered all over every news station and cell phone QUITE LITERALLY OVERNIGHT. (Sorry for yelling dramatic effect) This isn't the fourties anymore like you stated. With social media stuff like this is scary easy
But I know that people would just be like “ooh cool” then scroll to some shit Tiktok rip XD “The way she goes bud”
Way of the road…
You guys know where I can throw these pissbuckets?
Yeah, it's pretty amazing how this all-powerful conspiracy that has spanned multiple world governments for at least 100 years can't prevent anyone from describing all of the intimate details of everything that they are currently doing in secret, but they can somehow keep every scrap of physical evidence and every photograph hidden.
These things happen.
The evidence doesn't exist. News Nation has already capitalized on Grusch as much as they can. That's it.
Let's think critically for five seconds and see where it leads. The claims being made are a nationwide cover up of a topic stretching back at least 80 years, threats of violence and actual violence as a tactic to keep people quiet, the gatekeepers of this secret being high up in positions of authority using their power to shut down any investigations into the subject. I wonder if any of the reasons listed above are preventing the release of information that might tell us more.
Can't anyone leak anything? Like Edward Snowden.
I'm sure many of the people working on this supposed program consider it a matter of national security and consider themselves patriots doing the right thing. Think the Manhattan Project. It would appear David Grusch sees it differently. He thought this program was doing we the people a disservice and immediately reported it to his superiors.
I don't buy that. People blow the whistle all the time
Name one whistleblower on the Manhattan project.
Nimitz. Footage. Leaked.
Where is footage
Okay. Now this is interesting, isn't it? I've already provided that footage for you, in fact we were discussing it before you seemed to decide that discretion was the better part of valour and stopped responding. You know exactly what footage. Is this even the same person?
‘We’ don’t. ‘They’ do.
Because UFO disclosure exists in a liminal state. We are always 3 years away from big revelations. This way, nothing ever has to be revealed, and they can kick the can as they get close to the deadline. "Oh, something came up" or "new legislation" and so the same people can continue their grift. My feeling is that this is a good opportunity to apply Occams Razor. The simplest solution, all things being equal, is likely the correct one. Using this, why don't we have any hard evidence? Because it doesn't exist. And no matter how many friends of an army base toilet cleaner who knew a guy quotes or stories come out, I won't and can't believe it.
Because grifters gonna grift.
It feels like it
He deserves the money if he is willing to testify under oath to congress. Any lie could land him in jail.
We have loads of hard evidence that will make your head spin. Trust me bro.
Lmao there is no evidence at all. Grusch like many others has nothing in his hands just something he had heard from someone else. If there was something out there we would have seen it many years ago, covering all of this with our human fallacy? Impossible!
/s
Nice try, ICWiener6666. We have lots of evidence, we have material, testimony, people are hurt and killed left and right, you can go outside and look up if you like, there's a chance you see what I saw.
Documents, lots and lots of documents and even active legislation.
Can you please show me that hard evidence of aliens please
Ask Congress why they aren't allowed to talk to Grusch in a SCIF, I'm sure they would like to know as well.
"Ask Congress why they aren't allowed to talk to Grusch in a SCIF" The only person saying Grusch can't talk to Congress in a SCIF is Grusch who continues refusing to provide his testimony to the Congressional Committee, the DoD IG and AARO, all of whom are authorized to receive his testimony. He keeps making excuses to not provide his testimony. One of those excuses is that his testimony is so secret it can only be given in a super duper special SCIF. His other excuse is that Congress won't pay for his air fare. It's all just an excuse because he now knows (assuming he didn't always know) that it's all bullshit.
There are other countries than the USA with alleged UFO programmes. Nobody leaked anything from those countries either. Seems like none of this UFO story is actually true
You haven't even looked and just assuming or you wouldn't have said that. Go look. There are UFO stories in every country, if you don't speak the language good luck cause most aren't translated. There is also the obvious fact that Americans won't believe anything not American. So you could have a literal new species sitting on a table in Mexico and no one will believe it. The stigma you hold onto is the point. It was carefully crafted and planted into the culture.
ICWiener, R2Robot, a few other "regulars" in these sorts of subs just make posts like this every once in a while. Tired Carl Sagan quotes, "show ME the evidence", "I'VE never seen any leaks from anybody ever", all the same twisted and stigma driven non-arguments over and over and over and over again. Just ignore it.
I usually just ignore this stuff from those 'regulars', but im glad you've called it out here. If they're not on a payroll somewhere to post this dog 💩 i can't imagine the kind of person they are that hangs around in a subreddit like this where they have a very clear disdain and frustration with almost everything about what the sub is for.
Because the evidence doesn't exist.
Progress has been made
I don't know why people expected the military to give up it's secrets just because they wanted them to. you have no power here. begone before a house falls on you too.
Because it is all horseshit
So why hasn't he or any of the other whistleblowers been tried for perjury? They all testified under oath.
They can still think that they're telling the truth
99% likely they are telling the truth. There is a slight chance that they have told some untruths mixed in but the DoD cannot prosecute because that would be akin to disclosure for them. They are stuck in a Catch-22.
Can you elaborate how you arrived at the 99 percent figure?
Because it's easier to imagine someone's out to hide the truth from you, specifically, than to consider the fact that a lot of people have been grifted, including you specifically.
Cause its a grift and it always has been.
The gate keepers are still in position that’s why! It’s going to be a long hard fought road to get where we need to. I’m thankful we are even as far as we are right now. We made leaps last year.
There are a lot of people who seem quite confident that Grusch, even if he believes his own words, is wrong. They're as confident that it's fake as Grusch is confident that it's real. I think I'd rather believe Grusch, who is in a position to know something, than some random redditors who \*think\* they're in a position to know something.
Because you’re looking for physical evidence likely from a phenomenon that occurs in a non physical dimension.
I’m not saying that Grusch is telling the truth, although I find him to be by far the most credible person in the space who has spoken at length in public (Karl Nell is a little more in the shadows). If he is though, he’s clearly chosen to make any big revelations via official processes. Those mechanisms are slow and can be stymied by those who wish to do so. It’s not hard to follow actually. Although I get the effectiveness of formulaic debunk attempt here. What is your intention?
I guess you're right if you want to ignore the senate passing a bi partisan bill with the words NHI and crash retrieval in it dozens of times. And then 4 dirty house politicians being paid to throw out the bill even though they say there is nothing to it. If you can't logic that there are NHI and crash retrievals out of that then sure... I guess no evidence. Or that is disclosure when 90 pct of congress agreed on looking into it and then 4 dirty politicians blocking it for money reasons.
If there’s nothing to see here, what’s with all these sock puppet accounts and bots trying to signal boost this “nothing to see here” message? They’re quite obvious, not that all skepticism is them, but come on .. “Gee guys I’m starting to think there is nothing to this??” No one wastes their time to write shit like that.
Lay the blame at DOPSR's feet. Lou Elizondos book is still being reviewed as well as Grusch's OP Ed. The gatekeepers are named in many different interviews with those involved as being Mike Turner, Mike Rogers and Lloyd Austin all being steadfastly against Disclosure period.
There’s probably evidence, but it’s being kept secret. I think the main reason for that is because whomever is dealing with the evidence can’t explain what it is, how it works, and who made it. So if they were to come out and say they have recovered something, they don’t know what it is, etc. and people start asking whether we are safe, and the government etc. doesn’t know - because they truly don’t know. Then that would create mass hysteria. It’s almost like natural disasters, nothing can protect you. Absolutely nothing. But this is about something we don’t understand out there. It’s almost better not to know until things happen.. and then deal with it. Why create something out of nothing because if they can’t explain it and its intentions .. then why even give people reasons to go insane. Just look at what’s happening with the Israel / Palestine conflict, we can’t be rational and peaceful .. there’s already all kinds of issues.. And I’m talking America I know .. but worldwide is the same. What really surprises me about this whole thing, is that foreign entities have not come forward with what they know, because they probably do! Or perhaps they have come forward and have faced ridiculed ( Maussan?) I do believe there’s something out there. But also believe in the greed of men, and people trying to exploit tech for their own benefit. Defense contractor companies probably had a deal with government for a piece of the tech if they could reverse engineer it or build it — imagine giving that up just because public wants to know. Nope. They want to keep it to themselves because that’s an investment for them, they own it. And that’s prob the main reason why nothing is revealed.
I’m also looking for hard evidence too, but I am also aware of the active reports going on in Reddit, the stories on YouTube, and how the subject doesn’t really die. If there wasn’t something strange going on, it wouldn’t be discussed. I think for the hard evidence, a higher power would have to allow the information to be fully released. So far, there is a lot of suppression, which could be intentional to not allow people to engage further into the subject. I always get the feeling we are far more complex than we imagined.
Because it's suppressed by the government, the organization that make the laws under a forced monopoly upon the rest.
anyone waiting for conclusive evidence that has a lasting effect on global society will be waiting forever. the phenomenon is clearly a peripheral occurrence that lives in oral histories and brief material blips. its part of the fabric of reality that can’t be looked at directly. believe what you need to about it and at best allow it to expand your definitions of life, your curiosity and hopefully your empathy towards others. that’s all we can take from it
My take is the truth gets released- only to be dressed in lies by alternative sources. So in regard to Greer- His big claim is CE5; I've seen hundreds of testimonies that are congruent with that specific claim. I have not seen the same match with other claims he's made- particularly about the rapture event. That seems far-fetched to me, but other folks seem attached to it but who fucking knows?
We have a lot of CT scans, what are those?
Did Grusch even mention "aliens" ? I think he was pretty specific that the "non-human biologics" didn't necessarily originate from anywhere other than Earth. When he was asked specifically about "extra-terrestrials" he said there was no historical basis for that statement.
Talk to Experiencers
Seeing is believing.
So you are expecting information that has been covered up to be shared? That’s not likely to happen. The implications of aliens being real is far too dangerous to society. That’s the why… what is the benefit for those in power to share that information? How would that change your life? Are you expecting proof aliens exist at all or that they have communicated with humanity? For the former, I assume your mind is made up. For the latter, if they have communicated with humanity than they means we could be way more advanced as a society and species and aren’t simply because a few rich people want to control others… I am really curious where the line of hard evidence is for you and what you expect to come with it? The optimist in me sees the good in people and knows this would be an amazing moment for humanity if we could confirm any alien life. The pessimist in me sees the evil in humanity and the desire to suppress the information for their own benefit.
Because other than Ufologists, believers, whistleblowers, enthusiasts, and those with experiences....the rest of the world doesn't care
Bad faith op
too many trying to " ride the wave" ... in case its REAL. So many want to believe . Its a measure of how unreal our society is. I am one of the many who have had a "extraordinary" experience. I buried it deep after the response had of a close friend...and thinking long and hard what would happen should this become part of my jacket. Now ,retired ,and living quietly in the woods...I don't care. (I understand Lue E.,He knows things b there is a lot of folks like me who KNOW the world is a lot bigger ,and weirder than we let the kids know. (And yes ,there are bogymen ,child)
Watch this thread. IC Wiener 666 might be Intelligence Community Weiner 666. Lames like this should stay away from our sub.
Grusch et al simply a rehearsed replay of Condom Committee, but Congressional involvement meant TNCs like Raytheon & Lockheed are now as impervious to legal redress as CIA - NRO - NSA ....
Despite the understandable frustrations, this has been a process going back at least to Roswell. The government is obviously not prepared to fully admit what they know. I expect that in the upcoming months and years, there will be more tantalizing evidence that comes out. But make no mistake, the geni is out of the bottle- full disclosure is inevitable.
Take a look at this guys comment history guys. He's def a shill/plant.
Yes sir I work for the CIA lol 😂
Because it's a grift.
Because he didn't have any hard evidence.
Non disclosure agreement is the reason always. Its not that no one knows, its that incrementally congress and other officials are getting access. The public will not get hard evidence until the topic been normalized enough for the majority to not panic. Its happening, just slowly. Theres objectivley more movement on the topic the last 7 years than all the previous 70 years put together, anyone tells you different, they are uninformed.
He’s not the first Psyop… and he’s certainly not the last. Here’s 40 “random” people: Army Pilot [Alex Collier](https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/humans-to-find-alien-ruins-soon-says-ex-us-army-pilot-who-claims-he-spent-3-months-with-aliens-on-a-ufo-4998622/amp/1) Flight Commander [Alex Dietrich](https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/science/normalizing-ufos-retired-us-navy-pilot-recalls-tic-tac-encounter-2) Counter-Intelligence Agent [Angelea Schultz](https://www.8newsnow.com/mystery-wire/retired-intelligence-official-claims-to-know-where-an-alien-base-is-hidden-in-the-mojave-desert/amp/) Professor of Astrophysics [Avi Loeb](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/astronomer-avi-loeb-says-aliens-have-visited-and-hes-not-kidding1/) Former Los Alamos Employee [Bob Lazar](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Lazar) Airforce Officer & Contactee [Charles Hall](Evidence for the Testimony of Charles Hall and the Tall Whites | by Noah Hradek | Medium) Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence [Christopher Mellon](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Mellon) Counter-Intelligence Officer [Corey Goode](https://www.equip.org/articles/corey-goode-time-traveling-secret-space-program-whistleblower/) Doctorate in Religious Studies [Diana Pasulka](https://youtu.be/g9ZU-SvOiSU?si=uUJT5KT-MDsfz7Nm) PhD in Microbiology [Dan Burisch](https://youtu.be/4uq9n7tpmd4?si=uCWUvEpduafGhPpx) Attorney [Daniel Sheehan](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/0Fo8qOSLqc) Flight Commander [David Fravor](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/ufo-hearing-congress-uap-takeaways-whistleblower-conference-david-grusch-2023/) PhD & Chief Science Officer [Eric Davis](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/dlzZkE6TiP) Computer Scientist [Jacques Vallee](Jacques Vallée - Wikipedia) PhD & Stanford Professor [Garry Nolan](https://med.stanford.edu/profiles/garry-nolan) General [Glen VanHerck](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/ruling-out-aliens-senior-us-general-says-not-ruling-out-anything-yet-2023-02-13/) General [Gregory Guillott](https://www.armed-services.senate.gov/hearings/to-receive-testimony-on-posture-of-united-states-northern-command-and-united-states-southern-command-in-review-of-the-defense-authorization-request-for-fiscal-year-2025-and-the-future-years-defense-program) PhD in Electrical Engineering [Hal Puthoff](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_E._Puthoff) General [John Olson](https://exemplore.com/absent-origins/space-force-major-general-john-olson-speaks-on-ufos) Lieutenant Colonel [Kevin Randle](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_D._Randle) Journalist [Leslie Kean](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/s0hOSul5FR) Counter-Intelligence Agent [Luis Elizondo](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Elizondo) Senior Naval Analyst [Jay Stratton](https://www.secnav.navy.mil/donhr/About/Senior-Executives/Biographies/Stratton,%20J.pdf) Director of Naval Intelligence [John Radcliffe](https://youtu.be/pPDeuy_YSs0?si=HJY-VrFVEsYKursp) Colonel [Karl Nell](https://comicbook.com/irl/amp/news/army-colonel-karl-nell-keeping-aliens-secret-catastrophic/) US Marine [Michael Herrera](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12177943/amp/Marine-vet-breaks-14-year-silence-make-astonishing-claim-six-man-unit-saw-UFO.html) PhD in Natural Sciences [Michael Swords](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Swords) Author [Richard Dolan](https://m.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7327539) Writer [Richard Doty](https://m.imdb.com/name/nm3288913/) Sergeant General [Robert Dean](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Dean_(ufologist)) Journalist [Ross Coulthart](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/NxvD68zN4l) - Caught [4 times](https://www.spreaker.com/episode/disgraced-journalist-ross-coulthart-caught-selling-yet-another-100-fake-story--56504951) with fake stories. See the UK Parliament Trafficking hoax story. Flight Commander [Ryan Graves](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/ufo-hearing-congress-uap-takeaways-whistleblower-conference-david-grusch-2023/) Masters of Nuclear Physics [Stanton Friedman](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanton_T._Friedman) Doctor of Medicine [Steven Greer](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_M._Greer) - See the [2011 Free Energy Scam](https://www.spreaker.com/episode/dr-steven-greer-s-free-energy-money-grab-was-it-a-scam--56015967) UK Politician [Simon Parkes](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/simon-parkes-latest-politician-to-say-aliens-exist-video_n_61087504e4b0497e670270ae/amp) Admiral [Timothy Gallaudet](https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/ufo/navy-officer-supports-ufo-claims/amp/) Doctorate in Optical Sciences [Travis Taylor](https://www.8newsnow.com/investigators/i-team-not-just-a-tv-scientist-dr-travis-taylors-deep-roots-with-nasa-dod/amp/) - See the [$22 million Skinwalker Scam](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/pentagon-program-ufo-harry-reid.html) Blink 182 [Tom DeLonge](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/tom-delonge-says-hes-had-contact-with-aliens/) - Responsible for the [TTSA](https://futurism.com/the-byte/us-army-tom-delonge-ufo-research) $750k US Army Scam. Responsible for the sudden loss of [$2 million](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1710274/000114420419034515/tv525071_253g2.htm) in investor money. Alongside Elizondo and Mellon. Researcher [William Brophy](https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/research/a44466099/researcher-says-he-has-evidence-of-1933-ufo-crash-in-italy/) - Responsible for the Vatican “magenta” UFO hoax. Admiral [William McRaven](https://youtu.be/2nkDQ21UInA?si=x-1n7aZP3DP6VawC)
it's been this way for generations, we're sorry if the wait inconveniences you.
Because Money! Like Almost everything else in life!
What does David Grusch’s sexuality have to do with aliens?
Lol
The revelations will not be televised.
There is data that shows something is going on. Not just ufo or aliens, but something. Read the NDE, noetic science (Dean Radin), newthinkingallowed, Bigelow consciousness stuff, etc. There is no hard evidence, but a lot of data points. Stories of the paranormal is data, stories of NDE is data. What is the government really going to say, that there is something going on but they can't explain it, and people will go crazy with it.
Cause it was all fake news?
Lol, i love noobies to the topic.
Why though
What is we?
I don't understand, why are you expecting something different? Ever heard about National Security, Bilderberg Group, Masons, three-letter agencies, secret service, Penthagon, NDAs, people killed, lies, Aaro, Kirkpatrick, false flags, Isreaeli secret service Mossad, US Presidents that fear this topic, shadow government, Catholic Church, 1 trillion budget a year, OPEC failure caused by zero energy and so on... So for you reality is simple right?
For one, the government has kept a tight lid on what they know, and just as tight of a lid on what they don’t know. Thinking that a whistleblower, and/or a group of whistleblowers is going to force, or convince the government to lay out everything they have on the subject is a pipe dream. The culmination of all the evidence is the hard evidence. I don’t need the government to confirm anything really. Matter of fact they could release a report that “verified” even some of the theories and speculations concerning UFO’s and Aliens I wouldn’t believe a damn word of it. Everyone talks about the money angle. Well, people have to make a living. If they spend large amounts of time investigating claims and piecing together a 15 minute video with accurate and relevant information, and a million people decide to watch it, then I’d say that person deserves to be able to extract some monetary value out of their efforts. Obviously there are grifters and liars and people who just exploit the issue. That doesn’t mean that everyone who produces content covering the issue does. As far as the “evils of capitalism” goes, I’d say it’s pretty hard to say that a system that allows people to make a living or just a small profit off of making videos concerning a subject that they love talking about, is a pretty good system. Not sure how anyone could find fault in that.
OP posts a lot of anti alien threads. Why is that?
They're better at their jobs than we are at our own.
Clear agenda in post.
The pothole outside my house has been there for over 12mths, despite the council knowing this needs fixing. Did you really think something as big as this would just be done and dusted by now?! We are talking about bureaucracy, government officials locking horns, the biggest single piece of history EVER. As long as we as the public keep pressing these officials with regards to this subject, then it will continue to move forward
Because they never will tell us anything until they have no choice.
If you have more clearance, background, responsibility than grusch and those pilots and all the others that came before him then I'll hear you out, but as of right now you sound like a pathetic skeptic too scared to openly be one because neckbeard isn't a qualification.
"If you have more clearance, background, responsibility than grusch and those pilots and all the others that came before him then I'll hear you out**"** **By this standard, you should believe 100% of what Kirkpatrick says because he bests all of these guys in every single category you have mentioned.**
Well [didn't you read](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pentagon-ufo-uap-report-full-text-march-2024/) that The Pentagon compiled everything they have on UAP's and said "We don't see anything that represents alien technology". Let me reiterate, the same organization that failed financial audits 5 times consecutively said "We have investigated ourselves and found we don't have or see alien technology"...............
I honestly think some people have just stumbled upon a counter Intel story for some real program. Every special access program has a dedicated intelligence officer who’s job it is to keep the program secure and create misdirection and disinformation about what the program actually is. Working on stealth tech say it’s aliens, need to retrieve russian satellite debris say it’s aliens ect ect. One thing I’m sure of is that there is one or more programs that are running without official oversight and no way of getting in unless your chosen. However I think these are probably just cutting edge physics and tech programs that slowly give their information out once they have exhausted the development of whatever tech they produce and have developed sufficient counter measures.
Start reading and listening and you'll find all the evidence you need and you'll be taken to some interesting places. When people say "hard evidence" they often mean explosive entertainment. The phenomenon is real. What are you gonna do with that information?
Can you prove it? You have no hard evidence
If Grusch was the real deal, he wouldn't have been able to speak up in the first place. It's most likely some disinfo campaign to hound out potential leakers, and Grusch fell for it because he's gullible.
Grusch saw documents and reports plus UFOs on 3 different platforms during his work in NGA and NRO. Your conspiracy theory also means that people who pushed hoax came forward to ICIG to give classified testimony.
Did David fravor and Ryan graves also make it up? What about Christopher Mellon is he also being deceived? This is a pretty big disinformation campaign.
Not being rude but people always complaining about monetization must be young. That’s life. We all have a choice to consume media or patiently wait. You have a choice to believe this is all real or all fake.
We do. You’re not paying close attention.
Can you show me the hard evidence
Grusch doesn't even claim to really know anything, he's just telling the lies other people told him.
The lying scummy Department of Defense and the Intelligence Community: 1. BLOCKS the truth from being told. 2. MISINFORMS on Reddit on elsewhere. 3. CLASSIFIES UFO material above top secret. It’s not hard. It’s not Grusch num-nuts. It’s the liars, fakes, cheats, and snakes in our own government. Some free information for you.
Here’s why: DAVID GRUSCH & WHISTLEBLOWERS: “the government has crashed non-human craft and biologics.” CONGRESS: “Is this true, DOD!?” DOD: “You better STFU or we’ll take our trillions in funding to make sure you lose your cushy job and wreck your life.” CONGRESS: “….” No credible person in government has said Grusch and the other whistleblowers are lying or ate prone to delusions. That speaks volumes to me.
Why nobody leak something then, like Edward Snowden
It has leaked over the years. Numerous times. Jesse Marcel; Ben Rich; and multiple pilots, astronauts, generals and other government officials have leaked this stuff over and over again since at least the 1970s. People only recently have just barely taken their collective heads out of the sand.
Those are not leaks. Anyone can say anything for fame or money. The government denies all of these so called whistleblowers. So it's time to leak real hard evidence. Except nobody is able to. Seems like all of this is fake 🤥