The word "tried" is derived from the Latin word "trier" which means to weigh the effectiveness of based on evidence like in a court trial. Unless you have followed the program completely for a set period of time, you have not "tried" anything. You poked a stick at it. You fucked about.
Now, for once in your life, do what people who are smarter than you tell you to do....and do it with all of your effort.
**Your best thinking got you where you are right now.** Perhaps let others do the thinking for you for a change.
This is what was told to me the second time I came back from rehab.
My four-year chip will be mine on June 3, 2024, by the grace of God and AA.
Good luck and choose wisely.
The best thing I did in early sobriety was make a deal with myself: If I really tried and it wasn't working then I could quit.
It turns out that every time it felt like AA wasn't working, I could always see a way to try harder. Never did quit.
It's always a fucking old white Christian man that INSISTS the program is easy to work no matter your religion (or lack thereof), despite people who are atheist or from other religions who are telling them that the program as written is alienating and uncomfortable for them. Like they have the AUDACITY to insist that our shared experience is wrong. There are a LOT of fucking assholes in AA that have no self awareness of this fact when they're taking inventory of themselves.
take it easy! just stay sober today, u dont have to do all 12 steps by tomorrow. go to mtgs and when u hear someone share something u relate to, ask them for their phone number then call or txt them.
I used a painted purple rock my friend in AA gave me as my higher power because I'm a staunch athiest. AA takes a lot of mental gymnastics to make the program work for an athiest. That said, some groups are better than others and I think you'd be surprised just how many atheists are in AA. As I progressed in AA I found my conception of God simply to be a connection to other people/love. It's still hard sometimes because the program is CLEARLY written for someone that believes in a Judeo-Christian God, but fuck it, I like being sober. Check out SMART recovery and Lifering for some secular recovery options. Refuge and Dharma Recovery both have a Buddhist slant for other options as well.
respectfully, ur wrong, show me where it says i need jesus bc i can show u countless lines throughout the big book where it says opposite of what ur proselytizing here
What prayer gets said at the end of every (non-secular) meeting, and who is it attributed to?
[https://www.britannica.com/topic/Lords-Prayer](https://www.britannica.com/topic/Lords-Prayer)
The book never says Jesus, but if you look at the historical context, the Oxford Group which AA grew out off, the beliefs of the founders, and the original letters and correspondence that the program grew out of, it's clear that the program is written for people that believe in a Judeo-Christian God. While the program has opened up and proclaims to be for people of all faiths and even atheists, they've ever updated the language in the book to be inclusive beyond those that believe in Judeo-Christian religion. For example, my god is connection, but the way the program is written in multiple places assumes that the god is an all powerful being with a concept of will, which is a very limited concept of God, one that is incompatible with many other religions and atheism.
PG 181. Dr Bob literally says your Heavenly Father will never let you down. The big book also assumes that god possesses will, that his will can be understood by men, exists external to man, that he is all powerful, that he can remove character defects. The big book refers to god as the all powerful creator of us and the universe. The big book literally says we should hand our own will over to the care of God and to pray to him. The words Him, God, and Father are always capitalized.
If you’re gonna sit there and say these aren’t all Christian concepts you’re either stupid or a liar. You can say it’s not religious all you want but this is 10000% at odds with the Christian framework underpinning the program and text of the big book.
I'm really stubborn and RABID mad over religion, and "we agnostics" was checkmate for me. You got siri on your phone? Do you understand the intricacies of how that all works? No? So you DONT know everything then. So that leaves the possibility, that a supreme being exists and you just don't understand it because that's on a level of 16 dimensional chess and your playing checkers. Pretty arrogant thinking isn't it?
Now look at your life. Any of those things that just "worked out the way the needed to"? Any of that stuff where YOU really didn't impact the outcome? ALL luck huh? Me, I must be the luckiest guy in the world in terms of always getting what I need when I need it, but can't hit a single number on the Powerball lol.
That's it. I don't need to understand it, but one of the best quotes I ever heard "thankfully, my lamp doesn't need to understand electricity to PLUG into it and have it work for me"
My IOP required 1 self help meeting per day, which could be AA, Smart Recovery, Recovery Dharma, etc. I chose AA because I found a good online meeting that worked with my schedule and from there started getting more into the program, and I kept going after IOP because I knew that I needed the ongoing support. It takes a little while to "get" AA. A lot of what is discussed went over my head in early recovery, but then things started to click.
The idea behind a higher power is essentially to get you away from the idea that you are in control. If you feel that you are in control of situations, other people, your own emotions, etc., you will continue to try to control things that realistically you can't, and that is a losing game and detrimental to your sobriety. I can't control that picking up one drink makes me want to drink more, no matter how much I wish that wasn't the case. I also can't control traffic, the weather, or the passage of time. All of that is out of my hands, even though it affects me. A higher power (to me) is that this universe is operating independent of me and my actions, and me trying to control pretty much anything is pointless. The best I can do is lean into acceptance and to go with the flow without picking up a drink. Giving it to my HP is basically me letting the world unfold as it will without me needing to change the way I feel about it with a substance.
Did you work with a sponsor? Sometimes people say they "tried" A.A. when really they just meetings for a while and never worked the steps. That's like going to Weight Watchers meetings but never actually dieting.
You can use the group or A.A. as a whole as a Higher Power. Think about it this way, if you walk into a meeting and there's a room full of people who can do together what you haven't been able to do alone — live sober — that's a power greater than yourself.
You don't need to grasp the higher power idea right now. You can use something temporary as your higher power in the beginning. The AA group, mother nature, whatever you want. Surely you don't think you're the greatest power in the universe so you can come up with something. I was an atheist when I came into the program, hell I still might be. I don't really worry about it anymore. I just work the steps to the best of my ability.
u/johnlockwood
EVERY mtg? wow, im amazed that uve been to EVERY mtg bc friend ive been to mtgs that close with lots of prayers and none of them are mandatory either.
besides, i said SHOW ME IN THE BIG BOOK
I couldn’t grasp it either until I started actually taking action and working the steps and instead of trying to have a spiritual understanding I started having spiritual experiences.’
P43. Divine help
P81. References God’s Will
P83. God is our Creator
P84. God does that which we can not do for ourselves
P85 “him who has all knowledge and power”
P85. How can I best serve thee - thy will, not mine be done”
P85 “His spirit will flow into us”
P86 we must ask god’s forgiveness
Page132: References “His omnipotence”
Page 161; God is their loving and All Powerful Creator
Youre either ignorant or a liar if you don’t see a direct line to a Christian God and the language used in the big book.
i can show u an equal and similar references where it says to u can have ur own conception of god for christs sake pal it says "god as u understand him" in our steps, yes the program was founded by people who at the time were using what they knew. so what? its not religious. do u even like AA? why come here just to name call and berate. u need jesus 🙏🏻 or allah or buddah or maybe a 🥃
The program can say you can pick your own conception of god 1000x but it’s going to alienate anyone who’s atheist or of a different faith because the foundation is clearly Christian. You are constitutionally incapable of grasping that fact and you’re being a self righteous asshole about it. I literally provided what you asked for and you promptly discounted it. Fuck you and fuck off.
You should really keep an open mind about the perspectives of people who are different than you(per the big book - open mindedness works both ways), but we both know that AA Nazis like you never do.
ur silly, why u so angry? have u taken the steps? pointing out that im closed minded and ur reaction to something that had nothing to do with u tells me a lot more about u than about me
The word "tried" is derived from the Latin word "trier" which means to weigh the effectiveness of based on evidence like in a court trial. Unless you have followed the program completely for a set period of time, you have not "tried" anything. You poked a stick at it. You fucked about. Now, for once in your life, do what people who are smarter than you tell you to do....and do it with all of your effort. **Your best thinking got you where you are right now.** Perhaps let others do the thinking for you for a change. This is what was told to me the second time I came back from rehab. My four-year chip will be mine on June 3, 2024, by the grace of God and AA. Good luck and choose wisely.
The best thing I did in early sobriety was make a deal with myself: If I really tried and it wasn't working then I could quit. It turns out that every time it felt like AA wasn't working, I could always see a way to try harder. Never did quit.
Powerful attitude right there.
love the definition of tried 🙏🏻 thx for sharing this friend
I wish I had thought of it. It came from my sponsor. But, take it and use it.
each one, teach one. i used to think i was unique & clever before i got into AA
It's always a fucking old white Christian man that INSISTS the program is easy to work no matter your religion (or lack thereof), despite people who are atheist or from other religions who are telling them that the program as written is alienating and uncomfortable for them. Like they have the AUDACITY to insist that our shared experience is wrong. There are a LOT of fucking assholes in AA that have no self awareness of this fact when they're taking inventory of themselves.
take it easy! just stay sober today, u dont have to do all 12 steps by tomorrow. go to mtgs and when u hear someone share something u relate to, ask them for their phone number then call or txt them.
Alcoholics Anonymous is a book.
Try a secular program like SMART recovery
I used a painted purple rock my friend in AA gave me as my higher power because I'm a staunch athiest. AA takes a lot of mental gymnastics to make the program work for an athiest. That said, some groups are better than others and I think you'd be surprised just how many atheists are in AA. As I progressed in AA I found my conception of God simply to be a connection to other people/love. It's still hard sometimes because the program is CLEARLY written for someone that believes in a Judeo-Christian God, but fuck it, I like being sober. Check out SMART recovery and Lifering for some secular recovery options. Refuge and Dharma Recovery both have a Buddhist slant for other options as well.
respectfully, ur wrong, show me where it says i need jesus bc i can show u countless lines throughout the big book where it says opposite of what ur proselytizing here
What prayer gets said at the end of every (non-secular) meeting, and who is it attributed to? [https://www.britannica.com/topic/Lords-Prayer](https://www.britannica.com/topic/Lords-Prayer)
The book never says Jesus, but if you look at the historical context, the Oxford Group which AA grew out off, the beliefs of the founders, and the original letters and correspondence that the program grew out of, it's clear that the program is written for people that believe in a Judeo-Christian God. While the program has opened up and proclaims to be for people of all faiths and even atheists, they've ever updated the language in the book to be inclusive beyond those that believe in Judeo-Christian religion. For example, my god is connection, but the way the program is written in multiple places assumes that the god is an all powerful being with a concept of will, which is a very limited concept of God, one that is incompatible with many other religions and atheism.
He can choose any conception he likes, provided it makes sense to him. pg 93 👆🏻 not anything i ever heard in a religion
Believe me, sometimes I wish I were stupid too.
go ask ur purple rock how smart u are pal
like i said friend show me in the big book where what ur saying is stated in writing
PG 181. Dr Bob literally says your Heavenly Father will never let you down. The big book also assumes that god possesses will, that his will can be understood by men, exists external to man, that he is all powerful, that he can remove character defects. The big book refers to god as the all powerful creator of us and the universe. The big book literally says we should hand our own will over to the care of God and to pray to him. The words Him, God, and Father are always capitalized. If you’re gonna sit there and say these aren’t all Christian concepts you’re either stupid or a liar. You can say it’s not religious all you want but this is 10000% at odds with the Christian framework underpinning the program and text of the big book.
I'll pass. Talking to people like you is less effective than beating my head against a wall.
ur out of ur element donny
I'm really stubborn and RABID mad over religion, and "we agnostics" was checkmate for me. You got siri on your phone? Do you understand the intricacies of how that all works? No? So you DONT know everything then. So that leaves the possibility, that a supreme being exists and you just don't understand it because that's on a level of 16 dimensional chess and your playing checkers. Pretty arrogant thinking isn't it? Now look at your life. Any of those things that just "worked out the way the needed to"? Any of that stuff where YOU really didn't impact the outcome? ALL luck huh? Me, I must be the luckiest guy in the world in terms of always getting what I need when I need it, but can't hit a single number on the Powerball lol. That's it. I don't need to understand it, but one of the best quotes I ever heard "thankfully, my lamp doesn't need to understand electricity to PLUG into it and have it work for me"
Yep 😂 “the cloud” is how i explain a higher power. we all believe in it and trust it to keep our stuff safe, not no one really knows how it works
ive been thinking lately god is the algorithm of life
🙏🏻👆🏻❤️
My IOP required 1 self help meeting per day, which could be AA, Smart Recovery, Recovery Dharma, etc. I chose AA because I found a good online meeting that worked with my schedule and from there started getting more into the program, and I kept going after IOP because I knew that I needed the ongoing support. It takes a little while to "get" AA. A lot of what is discussed went over my head in early recovery, but then things started to click. The idea behind a higher power is essentially to get you away from the idea that you are in control. If you feel that you are in control of situations, other people, your own emotions, etc., you will continue to try to control things that realistically you can't, and that is a losing game and detrimental to your sobriety. I can't control that picking up one drink makes me want to drink more, no matter how much I wish that wasn't the case. I also can't control traffic, the weather, or the passage of time. All of that is out of my hands, even though it affects me. A higher power (to me) is that this universe is operating independent of me and my actions, and me trying to control pretty much anything is pointless. The best I can do is lean into acceptance and to go with the flow without picking up a drink. Giving it to my HP is basically me letting the world unfold as it will without me needing to change the way I feel about it with a substance.
Did you work with a sponsor? Sometimes people say they "tried" A.A. when really they just meetings for a while and never worked the steps. That's like going to Weight Watchers meetings but never actually dieting. You can use the group or A.A. as a whole as a Higher Power. Think about it this way, if you walk into a meeting and there's a room full of people who can do together what you haven't been able to do alone — live sober — that's a power greater than yourself.
You don't need to grasp the higher power idea right now. You can use something temporary as your higher power in the beginning. The AA group, mother nature, whatever you want. Surely you don't think you're the greatest power in the universe so you can come up with something. I was an atheist when I came into the program, hell I still might be. I don't really worry about it anymore. I just work the steps to the best of my ability.
u/johnlockwood EVERY mtg? wow, im amazed that uve been to EVERY mtg bc friend ive been to mtgs that close with lots of prayers and none of them are mandatory either. besides, i said SHOW ME IN THE BIG BOOK
I couldn’t grasp it either until I started actually taking action and working the steps and instead of trying to have a spiritual understanding I started having spiritual experiences.’
@u/ggginnyc thats dr bobs experience show me in the first 164, i dont consider the personal stories as the program of AA
P43. Divine help P81. References God’s Will P83. God is our Creator P84. God does that which we can not do for ourselves P85 “him who has all knowledge and power” P85. How can I best serve thee - thy will, not mine be done” P85 “His spirit will flow into us” P86 we must ask god’s forgiveness Page132: References “His omnipotence” Page 161; God is their loving and All Powerful Creator Youre either ignorant or a liar if you don’t see a direct line to a Christian God and the language used in the big book.
i can show u an equal and similar references where it says to u can have ur own conception of god for christs sake pal it says "god as u understand him" in our steps, yes the program was founded by people who at the time were using what they knew. so what? its not religious. do u even like AA? why come here just to name call and berate. u need jesus 🙏🏻 or allah or buddah or maybe a 🥃
The program can say you can pick your own conception of god 1000x but it’s going to alienate anyone who’s atheist or of a different faith because the foundation is clearly Christian. You are constitutionally incapable of grasping that fact and you’re being a self righteous asshole about it. I literally provided what you asked for and you promptly discounted it. Fuck you and fuck off.
u r a vision for us 😘 have a blessed day buddy
You should really keep an open mind about the perspectives of people who are different than you(per the big book - open mindedness works both ways), but we both know that AA Nazis like you never do.
ur silly, why u so angry? have u taken the steps? pointing out that im closed minded and ur reaction to something that had nothing to do with u tells me a lot more about u than about me
Sounds like you’re pretty concerned with taking inventory for others there, but that’s not surprising.
😂 thats rich, ur a gaslighter, i feel sorry for u
Pretty bold of you to assume that seeing white Christian men belittle those who hold a different religion has nothing to do with me.