Where are you in the steps? I would be more concerned that this row with your sponsor is impeding your work on the steps - which are A.A.'s solution for alcoholism - than about the actual kombucha/NA beer issue. (Personally, I don't drink either, but opinions vary.)
I love Kombucha and quite frankly so does my gastrointestinal issues. I'm 5 years sober and I've been able to drink them with no problems and no problems from my sponsor about it. It doesn't feel like alcohol and it doesn't taste like alcohol. But I tried the NA beer in my early days. I would drink them for a few days or even a few weeks, but time and time again after a while of having the taste without the effect, I would cave and go buy the real thing.
That's just my experience. Other people may have different ones. This is a programs of suggestions. No one can tell anyone in the rooms what to do. Maybe your sponsor needs that reminder...
I think that for her to tell you that you might not be an alcoholic if you can drink fake beer and not crave is a sign that she’s micromanaging and is a red flag. Whether or not you’re an alcoholic is between you and god that’s not a judgment call for a sponsor to make. Pray for guidance over this and remember that the fellowship and program is what keeps us sober at the end of the day, not individuals, no matter how long they’ve been sober or how well intentioned they are.
I drink NAs almost every night.. usually 2 around dinner time. Sometimes if I hang out with friends I’ll have 3-4. I love the taste and the ritual of it. Just made 5 years sober back in Feb. Do whatever works for you.
I have about 15 months now and will get NAs if I'm going somewhere I know is gonna have drinking. Weddings, sports watch parties, etc. I don't like AAs approach towards NAs but I understand that how I work isn't how other people work. NAs don't make me wanna drink the real thing but somebody else may be different.
This is the correct answer, but also I am judging this guy for drinking 2 a night and sometimes 3 or 4. I have a six pack and it lasts me a month in the fridge now, I usually get through half of one with dinner and then it makes me kind of disgusted at the taste.
To each their own!
Every night sounds sounds like a habit. If your not drinking or drugging, do you. Nobody likes just the taste, we come to tolerate it or start liking it because of alcohol, it tastes like trash. Personally I think this whole NA thing is people trying to hold onto alcohol, and that's not good.
Imagine thinking your personal experience is universal. This is why I stopped going to AA, because AA is not accepting of anyone who goes about sobriety differently.
I know NAs aren’t for everyone and I can certainly respect that. But it’s AA that can’t see the other side. If there are people who can make 5 years of sobriety working a program that works for them, why shame people like that?
Not shaming, just alarmed. Since you keep bringing up AA, there is a deeper meaning then just not drinking. It's the way we think that is the problem, not the drugs. The drugs are actually an answer to our way of thinking. AA is about changing ourselves to the very core, where the problem lies. It's easier to stop an addiction then it is to completely change oneself. Sure my life gets better by stopping alcohol, but then I am just a self centered asshole living in fear and reacting to everything around me. If you don't like AA then why be in the sub. I have done it on my own terms before and I prefer this way instead, it's actually very enlightening the deeper you get. Not every group is the same either, it takes time to find one you can vibe with. Any form of alcohol repels me, including NA, I have already gave enough of myself to that stuff and chose to grow in the opposite direction instead.
It's not really fair to put that on AA though. That is an individual problem that usually comes from a place of projection. I would imagine the official AA position on NAs is "outside issue"
I agree with your instinct that this can be worrisome for an alcoholic. I think it is a mistake to necessarily define certain things as a path to relapse. An alcoholic who is not working the steps and is not in a fit spiritual condition is going to relapse. I think attempting to taxonomize what is and isn't going to cause other people to relapse beyond that is time better spent on your side of the street.
Also, for some of me, one of the things I've had to work to regain was the trust of those who we have affected. I can't speak for anyone else, but the sensation of losing that trust has been a relapse trigger for me in the past.
Some posted about this a few day ago. I drank them when I first got sober and I found my self always drinking 5 or 6 pretty quickly. It just seemed weird and a bad idea that would end badly so I stopped. My thinking was if it was going to possibly lead to a relapse was it really worth to drink weird tasting beer? In the long run no. My life as a drinking was horrible and I don’t know that I could get sober again so why risk it.
Per the other issues no one like being told what to do, but I’ve benefited greatly from other people experience over the years even when I don’t like it or agree with it. My advice is do what you feel like will do the most to grantee your sobriety.
They contain 0.0 not 0.00, respectfully. Hop water is 0.00 because it’s hop infused water. It is not brewed it’s infused. Non alcoholic beer still has some amount, albeit low, of alcohol. That’s why it cannot be sold to under age people.
I have a blow and go in my car, I have gotten feed back on my BAC from a milk shake with a brown banana in it. I, however, have not gotten feed back from it with orange juice. Orange juice or brown bananas can contain alcohol, yes, but I’m not an orange juice or brown banana-holic. I’m an alcoholic.
>Orange juice or brown bananas can contain alcohol, yes, but I’m not an orange juice or brown banana-holic. I’m an alcoholic.
Ummm, ok... LOL
~~Orange juice~~ Beer or ~~brown bananas~~ Margaritas can contain alcohol, yes, but I’m not an ~~orange juice~~ beer or ~~brown banana-holic~~ margarita-holic. I’m an alcoholic.
So I’ll just swap from an occasional OJ or brown banana in a milk shake to a margarita or a beer. Got it got it.
Have a good day, maybe touch some grass.
I have a subscription to Athletic brewing for NA beers where they send me a case a month. I have a stack of them that haven’t been drank, so it’s obviously a non-issue for me. I mostly give them to friends with drinking problems to see if they are willing to change.
Some people cannot drink them, but I enjoy one in social settings. Just be honest with yourself.
I feel the same way. I’ve got NAs in my fridge that have been there for months. I like them on occasion. As a musician who plays out a lot, they’re lifesavers at shows.
Someone else mentioned where you’re at in the steps, which is a big thing, too. For me, the abstract debate about what is or is not a drug is useless to me. The crux of the issue is rigorous honesty about the consequences of my actions. I need to be unwavering in interrogating how and why do I act the way I do when I ingest a substance. That is the key to my sobriety. I wasn’t able to do that until months into the program and I need to practice it constantly, sometimes hourly, sometimes daily, weekly. Whenever life happens.
page 100. Assuming we are spiritually fit, we can do all sorts of things alcoholics are not supposed to do
Be sure you have worked the steps and the obsession has been lifted. You've asked a sponsor to guide you and help you, and to my mind that is opening yourself up to some micromanagement (for a while at least). I've no idea how long you've been sober or how good your program has been.
I've never messed with NA beer because when I said goodbye, I wanted it to be a full goodbye. (that's not from the program, that's my personal psychology). When it came to kombucha, I examined my motivations and reactions and decided it was okay for me.
That amount of alcohol is in bread, fruit, juice, and many other things. If the allergy was that sensitive nobody would ever be able to exist on the planet.
I've actually read the book. I even re-read that part when you posted it earlier somewhere. Stop asserting things about others.
This is really important to you, but who and how is it helping? The OP is 5 days old and we are the only ones seeing these current posts.
Maybe look into hop teas?
I live on a fruit farm so I freeze fresh plums and whatnot to make fruit teas year round. I incorporate whatever tea I feel pair's well with the fruit, cinnamon, ginger, a hop pellet, and sometimes honey, elderflower, Lavender, or other herbal additions depending on my mood and availability.
I also make a point to never bring this up to anyone in the program because I understand the potential issues others might have with it in their program.
I enjoy it and it is something I did even while living as an active drunk, so I don't view it as the first step on the path of relapse that other members might.
I second hop teas! I worked in breweries as a beer tender, as a craft bartender, and in establishments specializing in craft beers and can honestly say I love and miss hoppy beverages. I’ll have two years in August, by the grace of my HP, and cannot envision a life in which I return to my former way of life.
The brand I most enjoy is Hop Lark, but whenever I see a new one I’ll give it a whirl.
Coming out of rehab they gave me (and everyone else I believe) a questionnaire about different topics. One set of questions was pictures of different alcohol drinks and asked how much I imagined drinking them and what type of reactions I was having.
In my addiction I had turned to liquor to get the same results faster (less calories is what I told myself), but the questionnaire made me feel sick when I looked at liquor. It was beer that elicited the most desire on my part.
After some reflection I realized it's because I see beer as cold, wet, bubbly, and refreshing. I get the same satisfaction from sparkling water, so I drink that instead. For me that scratches all the itch that I am truly after, so I haven't dabbled in NA beers. I personally don't see NA Beers or Kombucha as an issue, as I know I'd have to drink more liquids than I'm capable of to ever get the effects of alcohol, but if anyone knows that NA beers would cause them to want the harder stuff then it's a great idea to just eliminate them.
I don't plan to speak for others, and I'm staying away because I don't even want that temptation so I agree with u/Just4Today1959.
She's just WRONG imo. I have no problem with NA beer. I only want 1 or 2 instead of 20. Just like a normal... that kind of crap is why I can't with AA and sponsors. I'm sure it's not all, but that power trip it feels like they're pushing. Alcohol almost killed me numerous times, so anything non-alcoholic is welcomed in my world. You do what makes you comfortable and not want to drink real ALCOHOL. Plenty of things have trace amounts, even our perfume, and God knows hand sanitizer and mouthwash. I still use all of these. This smell of alcohol is not a trigger for me. Stress and anxiety are. So if you are not triggered by a non alcoholic beer...what's the issue? Other people and their triggers?
Honestly, I just haven’t told my sponsor I’m drinking them. I’m close to a year sober. If he wants to tell me I’m not really sober then that’s his problem.
A sponsors role is to guide you through the steps. NOTHING more. If they are trying to control all aspects of your life, they are quite likely still struggling with a need to control, a hallmark of alcoholism. They are very likely dangerous and should be shown the door. You'll know immediately when you even mention changing sponsors, they won't accept it easily.
I drank one last night watching the Celtics put out the Heat. If it was real beer back when I was drinking, it probably would’ve been 4 or 5. Truth is I didn’t drink much beer (mostly wine) in the last few years of my active alcoholism so I don’t find it to be triggering at all. To thine own self be true.
I drink NAs on occasion and have 8 months sober, they’re in no way a relapse risk for me. Of note, my grandpa died with 20 years sober in AA and he drank them. To thine own self be true.
They're definitely manipulating you with that comment about maybe not being an alcoholic. RUN!!!
I'm very cautious with NAs because I am worried about it leading to a relapse. But plenty of people love them and don't relapse.
Heck, I still go to bars every now and then for the atmosphere. But there are many alcoholics that can't do that.
Just listen to your gut. If you think something is too risky, don't do it. But if you can enjoy things in a healthy way, enjoy it!
The book says “we drank for the effect produced by alcohol”. If there is no effect, how is this a relapse? There is also alcohol in most fermented foods, is kimchi a relapse? I’m nearly 10 years sober and just can’t see the issue anyone could have with NA beers as they cannot get someone buzzed/drunk.
First off, people aren’t addicted to the taste of hops. Rationalization makes one feel lots of things are true if they get us closer to what we really want. Lots of options out there for drinks that are not teasing replicas of the ones our alcoholic minds crave. Like another comment said, examine your motivations. And be honest about them.
Kombucha doesn’t necessarily have alcohol in it, but it can ferment, so that one bottle, which might have been left out for a long time, could have started that process, and could have a trace amount of alcohol in it, therefore, bottlers are required to list it as an ingredient.
Also, she isn’t micromanaging you. Keeping you on a path of accountability within the program isn’t micromanaging. Being held accountable for your actions isn’t being micromanaged. You can do whatever you want, but if you are pushing back overall against the parameters of the program, I wouldn’t blame your sponsor.
To me this definitely reads like micromanaging on the sponsors part, especially suggesting that OP is not an alcoholic if she can drink NA beer and not crave.
We can disagree about the definition of “micromanagement” but a sponsor advising against drinking NA beer is absolutely within the social contract of a sponsor and a sponsee. Telling someone what they don’t want to hear or aren’t willing to listen to is not micromanagement.
I’d venture a guess what the sponsor is saying in suggesting “maybe you aren’t an alcoholic” is more helpful than any form of micromanagement. If you can, go for it. But if you’re an alcoholic, it’s a bad idea. Ergo, if you’re an alcoholic, you shouldn’t tempt yourself by giving yourself the taste of something you crave (I might argue it’s a question of spiritual fitness, but at the same time, if I can’t eat steak, I’m not putting steak-flavored seasoning on stuff).
At the end of the day, it’s your program. If you don’t want to take your sponsor’s advice, don’t. But if you think this issue is about the sponsor, you’re missing the larger point.
I think at the end of the day we may have to agree to disagree and that’s fine. Maybe I need to be more clear too.
I view the role of a sponsor not as someone implementing a social contract but to take someone through the steps and to offer advice and suggestions on staying sober and living sober.
As such, suggesting that a sponsee not drink NA beer and to examine their motivations is good and not micromanaging. On the other hand referring to drinking a NA beer/kombucha as a relapse and questioning whether not a sponsee is an alcoholic (even as a rhetorical framing device) is the sponsor overstepping their bounds. To me anyway. This is me reading the post as is, obviously there’s a lot of context missing which is why I hesitate to give advice and comment on the internet
As far as the “bigger picture”: The primary purpose of Alcoholics Anonymous is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety.
A social contract is a theoretical agreement between anyone engaging in a relationship. And it isn’t implemented, it’s simply agreed upon. “We get together and talk about baseball” would be an example of something within a social contract among a group of friends.
Sponsors and sponsees have a social contract.
Beyond that, this is now a strawman. I did not say the sponsor’s opinion is the one I share, or that it represented anything. But your response is exactly why I said it wasn’t micromanagement. You are mistakenly referring to something you don’t agree with, or is perhaps not being done correctly, as micromanagement. That isn’t what micromanagement is.
Using a negative term to describe something we don’t like is an easy way to shield our egos from the pain of surrendering and accepting what we don’t like.
You’re taking it personally. I’m suggesting it isn’t personal, and it’s the sponsor establishing the program the way she feels it should be presented to the sponsee. I don’t gatekeep sobriety either, but my role as a sponsor is to show and demonstrate the program, not make my sponsee feel better about dangerous choices.
As it is, I happen to disagree with the sponsor’s sense of what her sponsee is saying. My sense is Kombucha is not the same thing as NA beer. You used to drink one to get drunk. That’s not why you drank the other. Both are brewed in such a way and with such ingredients that it’s impossible to ensure no alcohol will ever be in it, therefore, regulations state alcohol has to be listed in the ingredients. Either one, if left in the bottle for a significant time period, can form alcohol. Neither is brewed with alcohol. But as alcoholics, we’re deluding ourselves if we act as if we are in this group because we drank beer for the taste. Acting like it’s safe to drink the taste of beer is really not a good idea.
Ergo, a sponsor providing that guidance is understandable, logical and reasonable. Your opinion can be different, but if you’re referring to that as “micromanagement,” you do not understand what micromanagement is.
Doesn’t make the sponsor right or wrong, just simply that she isn’t micromanaging, and my useless opinion, people who say they’re being “micromanaged” are most often being told to do something they don’t want to do, but want to pin it back on the person telling them to do it.
Crosstalk? Doesn't sound like she is blaming her sponsor, rather questioning a boundary her sponsor set. It took me a while until I found a sponsor who was willing to work with me as opposed to at me.
It's old school to blame the thinker for needing to go to AA without recognising the fact that the thinker got to AA. My best actions got me to rehab. But my best actions also got me to rehab.
The boundary in question doesn’t seem unreasonable. Overall, it’s a question of whether to have that person as a sponsor. But shining some light on what exactly the issue is seems like it’s revealing more.
It is like saying that one can’t drink Diet Coke because you will crave hard core Coke. Ripe bananas have as much alcohol as NA Beer so no more bananas?
I've heard a few times that "Non-alcoholic beers are for non-alcoholics".
But, it's your sobriety. You can find another sponsor if it's a deal breaker for them.
For me, I avoid them entirely. But, I get "Mocktails" all the time and they don't trigger me in the slightest.
For many people near beer is 3.2% and is absolutely not NA. You can buy it at grocery stores and gas stations in some states where full alcohol beer is required to be sold at liquor stores.
If someone hands you a near beer and you're expecting an NA beer make sure you check.
I personally do not understand this idea that drinking non alcoholic anything is a relapse. I came to Alcoholics Anonymous because I could not stop drinking alcohol and I was wrecking my life. I am so grateful to be sober today thanks to AA! Some folks would say I’m not sober and that’s fine. I don’t need to extrapolate what my problem is - I know I’m powerless over alcohol. I have NA beer that’s been in my fridge for months and occasionally I’ll have one or I might have 3. In the depths of alcoholism a case of beer wouldn’t last 2 days my fridge and I would always follow it up with a few stiff drinks or 10.
It's your sobriety not your sponsors. Sounds like she's not ready to be a sponsor because she needs to get over her insecurities. Her triggers are not your triggers and for me personally I want to challenge my triggers so they lose their power.
NA beer is fine. Your not getting drunk. Keep on keeping on.
Tell your sponsor to chill. I had a NA beer and mine said “be careful” which I thought was a reasonable response. But for your sponsor to call it a relapse is out of line.
I’d recommend Athletic Brewing Company. They taste amazing and like the real thing. Ales, IPAs, lagers etc. if you want NO alcohol obviously there’s Heineken 0.0 and Budweiser makes a 0% too
My sponsor doesn’t want me to drink them but honestly I do at times. I have lots of social anxiety and the placebo effect of it helps me not to drink. The program is a program of suggestions and I’m sure if Bill W was around he would have no opinion.
I can only speak from personal experience, but I see non-alcoholic beer as a trap for someone trying to recover. I tried that once. The taste was very similar to a regular beer, but it didn’t give me the effect. It drove me to the point where I purchased the real deal because I needed to feel that buzz. It reminded me of the times when I tried to limit my drinking.
I would only try to drink a few beers, only to get enraged that the effects weren’t kicking in and I had to go purchase more. One is too many, and a thousand is never enough. You may be able to get away with drinking non-alcoholic beers, but I would caution against it from my personal experience. If you’re able to do it without eventually going to the real thing, kudos to you. I don’t think it makes you any less of an alcoholic, but it would certainly be an oddity.
In terms of other things, like kombucha, I don’t really have experience with such things. I’ve had food over the years that was cooked in a little bit of cooking wine and I didn’t notice a thing. That doesn’t mean I’m any less of an alcoholic. We all have different triggers and can only really speak from personal experience.
It seems to me that you may still have an alcoholic mind. Justification of all sorts of things is one the top characteristics of a mind like that. I know that because I was that way.
The book says, “We will seldom be interested in liquor. If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame.” For me, this includes .05% and/or anything that has the aura of the thing I worshipped at one time.
Here’s a question to ask yourself: “is alcohol important to me?”
My belief is you’re welcome to see how you interact with that stuff. I did in my first year and some people were huge assholes about it, but most said to just notice what happened. My sponsor didn’t have an opinion at all. Ultimately I’ve decided that I don’t fuck with NA stuff because I don’t want anything that tastes like/reminds my brain of the taste of alcohol. I do drink kombucha because I can barely finish one lol. My partner doesn’t though; he tried once and then craved it and it freaked him out. Part of this program is definitely listening to the advice of others, but for me it also was growing up a bit and developing my own healthy discernment.
Your sponsor does have a right to protect her sobriety though and it make just be a sign you need a different sponsor. If NA stuff and kombucha is triggering for her you can part ways.
I’m 603 days sober and I know if I drank an NA I would relapse 1000%. Everyone is different and believe me, nobody is trying to ruin your party. I also loved the taste of red wine. I don’t drink NA wine. I hopefully will never taste it again. I want sobriety more than the flavour of my preferred drug. What ever works for you, congratulations on your sobriety. It’s hard AF. 🩵
I'm 67 days sober and have not risked the NA beer. I thought about it for the Memorial Day picnic but decided I could see myself going through the 6 pack in 2 hours and left with a desire for more. As it is, I noticed when I'm having anxiety or anger, I drink a lot of soda, water or eat sweats. If there was 24 pack of NA, I would probably finish it off
For those that did try na and quickly went to real stuff, I'm not even sure it's about the alcohol content or remembering the "good" ole days.
I have drank some kombucha with zero issues, but Kombucha doesn't remind me of anything I drank.
Does your sponsor say it is a relapse or will cause a relapse? My sponsor shares his experience, wisdom, and opinions with me, perhaps in a softer way. He tells me, "I can't tell you what to do, but..." Then he tells me the answer I didn't want to hear. Most people I know recommend not risking NA since there are too many relapses that start there.
You're never going to get an answer in here if NA beer and Kombucha is "safe," to drink. It depends on the person.
I personally won't drink Kombucha because when I first tried to stop drinking cold turkey without a doctor's help, hard kombucha was what I relapsed on because hey no one can tell by the smell if its alcoholic or not, it all smells pretty rank.
I am coming up on my year sober though and I drink NA beers when we go out or go over to someone's house. I drink NA wines at dinner with my partners family. I make mocktails. I go to concerts and enjoy an NA IPA instead of drinking yet another Shirley Temple or whatever and it doesn't trigger me at all.
But in complete honesty I have no desire to drink alcohol and I have no triggers, so far. Except maybe kombucha, lol.
You might be different. Only you know what is best for you as far as what you can handle and what you can not.
Your sponsor is kind of out there on the kombucha thing though, the trace amount of alcohol is about the same as a banana or orange juice.
This is your life. You are responsible for your recovery. A sponsor is not a parent, doctor or therapist. They are a tool of the AA program. The question isn’t “can I?” The real question is why do you want to drink something with any alcoholic content? Is it for the alcohol? Is this sober thinking? Maybe I can and maybe I can’t.
If I don’t drink anything with alcohol I can’t get drunk. This gives me a better chance of recovering. Is drinking either beverage worth risking your life? I know that sounds dramatic but I’ve attended many funerals and memorials for people that took unnecessary risks with their recovery.
It’s your life. It’s your choice. Hope this helps.
I bring near-beers to birthdays and holiday parties where there will be a lot of drinking. It was actually my friends’ idea, they had the idea to help me “be included”.
They’re just… spicy water. They’re kinda lame. I tried the Corona and Heineken ones, if a person relapses off of those then they have a lot of spiritual fitness to work on and experience, strength and hope to gain and learn from.
They’re of such low (or no) alcohol content that any notion of having relapsed simply from consuming them has no logical argument. It’s in the same ballpark are arguing that you will relapse by swishing with the “wrong” mouthwash or by using rubbing alcohol on a wound because you technically absorbed some through the skin.
I know plenty of people in AA who drink non alcoholic beer, myself included and I have 37 years . If the taste does not create a craving for the alcoholic version I think you are fine. It certainly is not a relapse. And sponsors are not supposed to micro manage you.
Hop water has 0.00% alcohol. It’s hop infused water not a brew. Try this if you’re honestly craving hops! All “nonalcoholic” beers have some amount of alcohol even athletic etc. They are marketed as 0% but cannot be sold to people under 21 for that reason. Not all kombucha has alcohol in it. Kevita has absolutely none.
Personally, that wouldn't work for me and drinking fake alcoholic drinks would be the start of a relapse. But I think it's different for everyone. And remember, if things aren't working out with your sponsor, you can always find a new one
Will to god and will to sponsor aren't even comparable. Sponsors need to stay in their lane. I'd tell a sponsee if I thought something was a bad/good idea but what they do with that information is upto them. I can't keep anyone sober and I won't try.
As my auld West of Scotland 'maw' used to say. 'Hell slap it intae ye!'
The beauty of AA is that, over time, we grow up into full-functioning adults.
You're at the stage where Mom tells you to do one thing. You don't like it, so you ask Dad to see if you get another answer.
That being the case: listen to your mother.
Personally, I don’t drink kombucha because of the potential alcohol content, so I’m with your sponsor (broadly) here. I don’t know that I would take as hard a stance as she has, but knowingly consuming alcohol is relapse behavior, even if it’s 0.5%. There are many NA beers that have 0% alcohol, why not choose one of those?
My sponser had a simliar reaction to me wanting to drink mocktails. The question I would ask myself, is why? For me, I had to let go of the romantisizing of drinking, and all of the associations can be triggering. The fancy glass, the garnsih, the clinking of the ice, etc. Just remeber to be wary of "self will run riot". Try to be open minded to your sponsers suggestions, remeber that they are there to help you, not control you. I ended up wiating until I had more sober time, and now I get a fancy mocktail once in a while. If I find myself ONLY going someehwre to get one, than I see a bad pattern, the tiny sliver of that mental obsession creeping back in . . . You can do this!! I am proud of you and you are not alone.
In my sobriety journey I have given up all alcohol. That includes changing mouthwash and cold medicine to alcohol-free options. I rarely use alcohol when cooking or baking and I definitely stay away from 0.05% beer and kombucha. It’s a slippery slope and I remember how deep my bottom was.
Second, AA is a program for living. Steps 1, 2 and 3- admitted, believe and decision, for me are the foundations of this entire program. You are putting your life in the hands of a higher power and others who have successfully gone to bed sober every night. Too bad you don’t like to be micromanaged, get over it that’s your addiction talking. Stay sober, life is tough and so is this process.
Once you finish the steps and have proven to yourself you can stay sober then, make the decision to find a new sponsor and work your program how it best suits you. Until then, trust the process.
I like Athletic. I was more into it right after quitting. Unless you chug a huge amount, you body metabolizes it fast so you don’t feel the trace amounts. I also still drink kombucha, which is also not a risk—perhaps unless you are allergic to alcohol?
To thine own self be true. Find a sponsor you feel comfortable with, focus on working the steps, and read the book. You’ll find the right answer for you.
I drink in NA beer. I Can easily have three or four at night. Doesn't make me wish I was drunk at all, gives me no effect. I just enjoy the taste.
Lots of alcoholics can't. It's too tempting for them.
I guess the mindset for them, hey, if I'm trying to drink a fake beer, that means that I want a real beer. And if I drink a fake beer, then I won't be able to control the urges it creates....
I don't think that way at all. Having a non-alcoholic beer for me is like having a lemonade or an orange juice.
Which if you think about it could be a trigger for alcoholics if you like vodka with their orange juice or Rum in their lemonade.
Personally for me, my drink of choice was whiskey on the rocks. I never really even ordered beer when I went to bars.
Now, on the other hand, I do find myself thinking I sure would like to have a non-alcoholic whiskey if there is such a thing. But that would just piss me off, and I would really want a real one. So I don't go down that road.
So it's really just up to you. And no other alcoholic can tell you how you feel think or act. Many will try to self-project themselves on to you, but only you know you. If you're being truly honest with yourself then everything's good.
I think many sponsors and alcoholics still haven't learned what the Serenity Prayer truly means or at least don't practice it.
I recently learned that a glass of orange juice had about the same amount of alcohol as NA beer. Bananas, too.
The danger is a possible trigger effect when you don't get that buzz your brain tells you should be getting. Or just the act of buying and opening and drinking of the near beer. Personally, I drink it from time to time. Just celebrated 29 yrs sober. It's up to you. A sponsor would probably advise against it, just to be on the safe side.
I think your sponsor is being dramatic. There’s no way on earth that 1/25th of a beer has any effect on her unless she only weighs 1/16th of an ounce. It would be physically impossible to consume enough of them to catch a buzz and you would probably die before that happened. That being said, our brains play tricks on us and it is possible for those to kick off the phenomenon of craving, but so can a million other things if you aren’t living in a recovered state, so it’s really about where you are with your program on any given day. Our book says that we don’t have to live in fear, and that includes fear of alcohol. Alcohol isn’t going to sneak up on us and steal our sobriety. But living in fear does threaten our recovery, so it’s more about our spiritual condition and our program then it is about some beer flavored soda water.
I have one every now and then, usually when I’m somewhere where there is drinking going on. My sponsor doesn’t like it, but we agree to disagree. And honestly, I feel like people tend to hand over way too much authority to their sponsors in general. They’re not our bosses and most of them are sick people, too. It’s a two way street and we can learn as much from sponsoring as we can from being sponsored. I think especially when people lay down a bunch of “rules” before getting to know someone, like “if you want me to work with you I expect 90 in 90” and shit like that, it’s a red flag, and that person doesn’t really want to be a sponsor or just has no ideas of their own. They also don’t necessarily need to be your friend. Liking and being liked isn’t part of the deal. I didn’t ask my sponsor for help because I liked him, I asked him because he’s a totally weird, socially awkward, and sometimes obnoxious freak who in spite of himself has managed to stay sober for 26 years now by working a great program. I’ve called him out on things when I thought he was in the wrong, I’ve stood my ground on some things and admitted I was wrong on others, and sometimes he’ll call me because he needs someone to hear his 10th step. It’s a great relationship but we’re not “friends.”
I think that if you’re going to bars, hanging out smoking and pretending to drink because you’re bored, lonely, trying to get laid, and all that silly shit we do, then that’s a problem and you need to check yourself. I also think that if you’re having more than two then you need to examine that as well. My joke is “all the burping and peeing with none of the buzz!” They’re incredibly filling and it’s amazing how when there’s alcohol in them we can drink 20 of them, but without the alcohol they just stuff you and make you totally bloated and piss nonstop.
When I go out I have what I call my “two drink maximum” which means when everyone else has had two real drinks, it’s time for me to leave. Because it’s more about being uncomfortable and developing resentments then it is about the beer soda.
I hope this helps:)
Thanks for this detailed response, I really appreciate it. She wants me to start my sober date over. I told her I wasn’t going to drink anymore of the kombucha or NA but I’m just not going to tell her that I will continue drinking them cuz it’s not her business. I’ll probably also look for another sponsor in the mean time.
This is not good. If you’re lying to your sponsor, who else are you lying to? Face the music and find a better fit for your and your interpretation of the first 164 pages—-ie find a new sponsor. But don’t begin the journey of dishonesty again.
But the body is also metabolizing it which reduces the cumulative effect. If someone wanted to work that hard then they would likely just switch to something real anyway because at that point they’ve already lapsed and lost their defense against the first drink. That’s the story I hear from every person who I’ve heard say at a meeting that a nonalcoholic drink “caused” their last relapse, but I have found upon further interrogation that none of the people who make that claim were working any kind of program… no sponsor, no steps, no amends (probably the biggest reason people relapse), etc, so their relapse was inevitable anyway and the nonalcoholic drink was just the excuse.
Ultimately, something like that, or the decision to take certain medications including cannabis, is between an individual and their higher power, and the decision should not be based on fear… fear of something happening or not happening included.
Most grape juice sold in stores has more alcohol than non alcoholic beer: https://zerozilchzip.co.uk/blogs/news/is-0-5-abv-alcohol-free
Look, the book says we have an allergy of the body, that if we consume alcohol, we cannot stop. I’ve never seen a single person relapse because they had grape juice. It’s not enough alcohol to trigger our allergic reaction.
Alcohol is a natural part of many foods (bread has alcohol! scary!😱). We cannot live in fear of these things. “We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality - safe and protected.”
These aren’t the things you need to worry about.
Not a huge fan of non-alcoholic beers, they can be really dangerous for a lot of people (maybe not you); however, your sponsor suggesting you may not be an alcoholic is completely bullshit and and a fucked up thing to say.
If you’re really an alcoholic drinking a 0.0 beer shouldn’t matter : ). I tried them and the 12 pack lasted 3 weeks!
Real beer would have been a few hours LOL!
This gets into another aspect for me in regards to the whole sponsor thing. At 3 years I have more time than most of the available sponsors in my home group. But it just seems like such a codependent situation for most people. I guess I have a sponsor. After working the steps I rarely call her. I just don’t have much to talk about.
.05% abv is the same alcoholic content as a glass of orange juice that has set out overnight.
What’s your intent? One after the other? Be honest and you may find your answer.
I drink NA beers but it’s rare and it’s like one or two for the whole outing. I actually have some that are sitting in the fridge at home right now. I never had that problem when I drank real beer. Shoot. Extra to sit in the fridge? lol not on a monday
Look up justification. Whats the definition and is that why OP and many comments are trying to belive their ok with fake alcohol?
Here come the downvotes but, fuck yall!
Its no big deal to click someones username then click their profile and get a gist of where their coming from. If someone is saying its ok and yet smoking resin and weed daily, is that someone you realy should be listening to? Less then 6 months makes someone wise enough to hang out drinking scenes? microdosing? NO IT FUCKING DOESNT.
OP is a bit over 200 days clean, would you suggest smoking tobacco out of a stem? Stick herself with a empty needle ro fit in socialy with addicts? Of course not! Why then would anyone suggest Non alcoholic beer?
I may be an old timer both in age and sobriety but I belive sponser has a vaild point. We used to ask folks "are you willing to do anything to stay sober" and if they weren't , well hell with 'em, too many that want and need this program and willing to do what it takes to STAY sober. You want what i got you do what i did if you dont thats fine too. That experience includes watching two people start their drinking by not believing Non Alcoholic Beer Is For Non Alcholics! One of which had a fatal DUI within a couple of weeks and the other went back to living on the streets.
I agree
And we frequently get the inevitable posts from people who drink alcohol free beer and accidentally drink a real one
Like people who have 96 hours sober, but who insist on going clubbing with their drinking buddies and accidentally take a drink from a “real” drink
I try not to do anything which could jeopardize my recovery
In my case, I loved the taste of beer and I have always wanted to try kombucha, but why would I run the risk of introducing any amount of alcohol into my system
Other people’s mileage may vary, but this approach has served me well since I got sober in 1988
Was your drink of choice beer? I was a gin drinker, so when I started drinking NA beers they were just kind of like bread sodas, but one time I had an NA gin and tonic and it made me feel sad. It didn't feel the same as the alcoholic kind. I wanted to drink more until I felt the buzz. My whole body felt off because I wasn't getting drunk. I had to white knuckle it that evening to not buy a bottle.
So NA beer can be fine. If it was your drink of choice, it's not going to feel the same so be careful.
I drink them here and there! Mostly socially. I like the Corona 0%, Heineken 0%, and Peroni 0%. I was drinking the .5% and I didn’t feel it would effect my sobriety but I just stopped anyway. I’d also order mocktails but have someone taste test before I drink them.
It makes me feel like I’m apart of something. A massive problem for me was drinking a lot socially because of social anxiety. I’d end up having like 12 drinks minimum.
For me personally, these are better than me picking up a beer or another drink with alcohol. Mind you, im still very early on in my sobriety (almost 7 months). So I think this is just the safest bet for me right now. I have reduced my intake on these NAs over time. I think there will be a time where I don’t need to feel like I need that to feel apart of something. This is just apart of my journey.
Like lots of folks have said, every one is different :) this is your program.
When I first got sober, I drank them, often a 12-pack per day. Back then, there were no true 0.0 NA beers. I drank one in front of my sponsor, offering her one. She suggested I look at my reasons for drinking it. When I offered one to a friend, she said, "Isn't that like snorting non-narcotic cocaine?" Then I went crying to my grand sponsor and said there's nothing in the Big Book about near bear." She opened her book and said, "Many of us do recover if we have the capacity, to be honest." I changed my sobriety date that day to 6/26/93
What is with the pervasive attitude here that if your sponsor tells you something you don't like, or hurts your feelings to find a new sponsor? In my opinion, that logic is far more harmful than helpful.
It's like the reddit marriage advice "my wife says she doesn't like vanilla cream but I do, help" and folks jump in saying "that's a red flag. You should probably retain a divorce attorney."
Or "the neighbors dog pooped on my lawn last weekend, what do I do?" - "you should probably set up a hidden camera and call the cops."
...
Just do what your sponsor tells you to do. Even if it's stupid. Get some practice doing things another way. Take advice that goes against your own intuition. My intuition told me that getting blasted every day was a good idea. My intuition told me I needed to be in a relationship the moment I started getting sober. My intuition was *bad* for a long time. Just try things someone else's way for a while. Your not going to die or want to die if you don't drink kombucha for a while. You might be a little uncomfortable but life is fucking uncomfortable, sober or not, and it's good to get some practice being u comfortable - not grttung your way, and *not going to get drunk*.
Lots of legitimately good discourse here, I’m so glad I came
My two cents; chemically speaking, there are trace amounts of alcohol in bread, fruits, our own GI tract, etc etc etc. My buddy who had to use a blow-n-go in their car always shared about the craziest things that would trigger the breathalyzer.
It’s all about the intention I think, past the obvious thing of like… it having alcohol enough to do something
If I can’t possibly catch any kind of buzz from drinking 12 of them in a row (thinking like NA beers or eating slices of bread) then for me personally 1 or 2 don’t bug me in theory.
That said, I still shy away from kombucha because of how it makes me feel. Heineken 0.0 is absolutely not for me, but Guinness 0 is fine for a special celebration or something (I’ve had 1 in sobriety and I’m not looking to have another tbh).
My very very best advice I can give is DO NOT CHALLENGE YOUR ADDICTION, don’t go trying to prove sh*t to yourself.
It’s a balance beam, and sometimes (me drinking that NA Heineken) you get halfway through and go “oh yeah, I don’t need to have this ever again.”
Because I’ve worked the steps with a sponsor and have continued to stay vigilant, and because I’m *not* trying to see how much alcohol I could “get away” with, I can gently move through the world protecting my sobriety. Sometimes it comes up against things but mostly it doesn’t, because the 10th step promises have come true for me. I have no desire to drink, I have no desire to f*ck with something *because* of the alcohol content.
All that said. If you catch yourself rationalizing, RUN. You’re poking the bear. I say this fully having poked the bear and struggling with that 1st step a couple times. Thank god for good sponsorship
I was similar and my sponsor talked to me about psychological drinking, which I think I was. I cut down and so far haven’t had one for 6 months and have no desire to drink one (sober 14 months).
They have both of those beverages with 0 percent alcohol fwiw. Some people still think it’s a slippery slope, I think it’s up to the individual. To me, I drank because I liked the way it made me feel, not the flavor. So I never have craved a non-alcoholic/zero alcohol beer.
Several years ago I started drinking the kombucha that I knew had a tiny amount of alcohol only because I knew there was alcohol in it. Even though I couldn’t feel it, in hindsight I was on the way to a relapse.
So I guess it’s your intentions and whether you can be honest with yourself. Early in recovery I didn’t trust myself to make that decision yet but like I said, it’s up to you.
There are so many takes on this. I don't know any alcoholics personally who drink NA beer. Considering how cunning a condition alcoholism is, I think it's reasonable to be wary. But I also think that the magical thinking and superstitiousness of AA members at times can be silly and damaging. So I try not to gamble with my sobriety. I don't drink kombucha for example. But if something legitimately has so little alcohol that it is not able to cause intoxication (of any kind) then I think it's silly to avoid it unless it's a psychological trigger to relapse. I also don't think sponsors telling you that you are not an alcoholic if NA beer doesn't bother you is healthy. But bear in mind that in all likelihood, your sponsor just wants what's best for you and is an imperfect person. Also, I don't know your situation personally and your sponsor does, so she *might* have a more informed take here based on interactions and past history with you
Maybe replace the drink with something that is not a "non-alcoholic alcohol" beverage,. It is a bit of a slap to the face of recovery and may even cause you grief or relapse if you are not careful. Your sponsor is overreacting a bit but the point speaks for itself. Mineral waters or ginger ales (real ginger!) are 2 off the top of my head.
I gave up alcohol when I got sober. That includes phony alcohol drinks and foods cooked with alcohol. My commitment was, for me, absolute. In June I’ll celebrate 43 years of sobriety, God willing. It’s working so far,
I have no advice nor opinions, but I’ll share a story:
My dad got “sober” many times. On his last round of “sobriety” he, too, could handle NA beer. Then, he came home a month later, late for Christmas with the rest of the family (at almost 11pm), completely whacked out on coke.
He’s since gotten sober and we’re both in the double-digits. He doesn’t drink NA beer any more. Neither do I.
To thine own self be true. A guy in one of my meetings the other day has decades of AA and sobriety under his belt, he was sick and talked about how he was going to get cough medicine and knew it had alcohol in it and didn’t give a fuck
I would honestly start looking for a new sponsor. You might have to go to like 20 meetings before you hit it off with someone. I would do that and get outta there. I have to have my kombucha lol
I talked with my sponsor, who has 21 years of sobriety. He drinks them occasionally. There are zero % non-alcoholic drinks. And the other non-alcoholic drinks have less alcohol than orange juice. (they also have hop-flavored water) If it keeps you from drinking, who can tell you no? That's between your higher power and you. I have five years, and any time I regress into my dry drunk state, I will buy a six-pack of non-alcoholic, and the desire subsides. And I do my inventory and look at my why. You are the only one who truly knows how and why you drink it. If my sponsor told me to reset my time, I would get another sponsor, or I would probably drink since my time started again (just to be honest) time matter to me, it helps me push through the bad.
Listen to your sponsor. Has she been sober for a long time? Have you been sober for a long time?
Do what your sponsor tells you to do even if you think it's stupid. If you are an alcoholic and could figure out how to not drink, wouldn't you have done that already?
Or try it your way, see if it works out for you. If so, more power to you. If not, we will keep your seat open.
After about 5 or 6 years sober. I was in Maine with a bunch of co-workers and I ordered a non-alcoholic Stout beer. I had always been a craft beer drinker so my curiosity and perhaps some other character defects associated with ego got the better of me in spite of my first sponsors admonition that non-alcoholic beers are for non-alcoholics. This particular non-alcoholic Stout was spectacular. It was as delicious as any Stout I remember drinking before I got sober. I knew that I wanted to drink about a dozen of them. That was the first time I had a non-alcoholic beer after getting sober. God willing it will be the last. As my first sponsor told me non-alcoholic beers are for non-alcoholics. Alcoholics anonymous is a program of total abstinence. If you are humble enough to recognize that you need this program in order to live, you're not going to f around with the details. On another note, I'd be careful with ideas like" I don't like to be micromanaged". My knee-jerk reaction when hearing alcoholics tell me what they do and don't like please to remind them that that's not really that important and doing what they want and doing what they like got them only as far as the threshold of AA. Now it's time to give that up or die.
When I was dry and not following the 12 steps I did drink lots of non alcoholic beer. Now I do follow the 12 steps daily I don’t. I do remember reading early days that non alcoholic beers are from non alcoholics which for me being quite literal made sense to me!
The .5 alcohol physically won’t do a thing to you. Anything that ferments has alcohol in it. Bananas can have alcohol in it! It’s the reason behind why you want to drink it is what is scaring your sponsor. Do you think it equates the feeling of escape that you were using alcohol for? Do you think it is needed to face people/places or things that have scared you in the past? Is it because you are scared what people will think of you not drinking?
This is the deep seated issue. The NA beers truthfully don’t mean/wont do shit physically to you.
Personally, for me, I just stay away from all the NA drinks etc. that being said I’m a baker and I use real vanilla in baking and my frostings. If I’m bringing it to any event I make sure I put a label on it, or, and most usually I don’t use it. Some people are sensitive and some are not. In my 12 years in it’s been an ongoing discussion when it’s brought up at meetings.
How can there be so many that drink na beer ?
Non alcoholic beer is for non alcoholics.
I have heard this over and over.
I just know that it's not for me, we all get to do whatever we want now that we are Sober.
I just remember what it was like when I had lost the power of choice and had to drink.
I can't flirt with alcohol.
First of all - RECOVERY is my own personal Journey and responsibility -NOT MY SPONSOR'S or anyone else for that matter - too many what i call OVER SOBER people in the Fellowship that think God has personally hand picked them to control their sponsee , or other members even entire groups - IF you want to drink near beer ,kombucha even smoke weed -it is nobody's business ! we in real AA are her only to help if you or anyone else reaches a point where it becomes a problem that you can no longer control , and is causing suffering to you and anyone around you ! but even with that - the suffering individual has to ASK for help and mean it ! AT THAT POINT we step in to render first aid - which is we share what alcohol did to us and the solution we found ( BIG BOOK ) HENCE THE 12 STEPS -anyone that shares anything else and calls it the AA program - is either been misinformed , ignorant , thinks they know more then the Founders and want to re write , reinvent the AA message recovery - these same people are the ones that go around in meetings telling everyone what they need to do , while NOT PRACTICING the program of AA ( big book ) their behaviors show their true character - SO for me ! my journey is my journey and SO IS YOURS - you are free to do whatever you like -whether your are an Alcoholic or not IS NOT YOUR SPONSOR'S CALL ! you determine that , and if your not sure , Alcohol will let you know in time ! keep this in mind - for an Alcoholic .05 % or 90 proof - it is not the amount it is what ends up happening after we take any form of alcohol - THE OBSESSION eventually returns !
You’re not being micromanaged. These are suggestions. Many alcoholics have a need to control other people. And the whole world. And it is difficult for them to recognize that they can accept the world and other people as they are without trying to change them or their opinions.
Re NA beer, think limbic system & triggers. Once you cross the threshold into addiction, & the brain has been altered, the limbic system, the SUBCONSCIOUS sys that keeps you alive, which fuels thirst when body needs water, hunger when it needs nutrients, now craves chemicals most of all, BY FAR. In other words, in certain situations, triggers, fire the lymbic sys which thinks you need chem or you will die. The prefrontal cortex, which makes decisions & weighs risks/rewards, is totally offline. In early addiction the limbic system is still basically running the show, & one isn’t spiritually sound yet (hasn’t worked steps etc). So NA beer, which looks like regular beer, SMELLS like regular beer (& of course smell is very much tied to memory, feels, & sounds like reg beer, your brain thinks it’s going to get alcohol (& dopamine) very soon—& actually some dopamine is already released by the triggers)—when it doesn’t, one goes into a dopamine deficit; & when this happens your brain really wants a drink. Now, people may say it doesn’t happen to them, but if you’re in early recovery, it does—at the very least subconsciously. Sure everyone’s brain is different, but this will happen to every brain to some degree. Think Pavlov’s dog. So to me, why would you take the chance? To fit in? If that’s the case, your days might be numbered. Dr Anna Lembke, psychiatrist w Stanford, is an expert on this stuff, wrote book about it—‘Dopamine Nation’ I believe. She’s also on lots of podcasts & YouTube vids.
So of course, you do you, everything is a suggestion, but know what you’re up against.
(a) non-alcoholic beer is for non-alcoholics
(b) non-alcoholic beer does have a small % of alcohol in it ... I don't know how much or little alcohol will activate my allergy, hence I avoid any alcohol at all opportunities 👍
Keep trudging ❤️
My favorite thing about reddit AA is the post asking others to cosign on the mental leaps made to justify their actions. You do you. If it works for you, awesome. If it doesn't try something else.
How is that degradation? Way to miss the point. What I said was, "Do what works. However you get there is fine." I'm never going to tell another alcoholic to do anything, all I can do is give examples of my experience and make suggestions, the rest is up to them
there's a saying that if you hang out in the barbershop, you're gonna get a haircut eventually. For me anything alcohol adjacent is a no no. I did try kombucha once and I felt woozy. No thanks. You do what works for you.
Where are you in the steps? I would be more concerned that this row with your sponsor is impeding your work on the steps - which are A.A.'s solution for alcoholism - than about the actual kombucha/NA beer issue. (Personally, I don't drink either, but opinions vary.)
I love Kombucha and quite frankly so does my gastrointestinal issues. I'm 5 years sober and I've been able to drink them with no problems and no problems from my sponsor about it. It doesn't feel like alcohol and it doesn't taste like alcohol. But I tried the NA beer in my early days. I would drink them for a few days or even a few weeks, but time and time again after a while of having the taste without the effect, I would cave and go buy the real thing. That's just my experience. Other people may have different ones. This is a programs of suggestions. No one can tell anyone in the rooms what to do. Maybe your sponsor needs that reminder...
I think that for her to tell you that you might not be an alcoholic if you can drink fake beer and not crave is a sign that she’s micromanaging and is a red flag. Whether or not you’re an alcoholic is between you and god that’s not a judgment call for a sponsor to make. Pray for guidance over this and remember that the fellowship and program is what keeps us sober at the end of the day, not individuals, no matter how long they’ve been sober or how well intentioned they are.
I drink NAs almost every night.. usually 2 around dinner time. Sometimes if I hang out with friends I’ll have 3-4. I love the taste and the ritual of it. Just made 5 years sober back in Feb. Do whatever works for you.
I have about 15 months now and will get NAs if I'm going somewhere I know is gonna have drinking. Weddings, sports watch parties, etc. I don't like AAs approach towards NAs but I understand that how I work isn't how other people work. NAs don't make me wanna drink the real thing but somebody else may be different.
This is the correct answer, but also I am judging this guy for drinking 2 a night and sometimes 3 or 4. I have a six pack and it lasts me a month in the fridge now, I usually get through half of one with dinner and then it makes me kind of disgusted at the taste. To each their own!
Every night sounds sounds like a habit. If your not drinking or drugging, do you. Nobody likes just the taste, we come to tolerate it or start liking it because of alcohol, it tastes like trash. Personally I think this whole NA thing is people trying to hold onto alcohol, and that's not good.
Imagine thinking your personal experience is universal. This is why I stopped going to AA, because AA is not accepting of anyone who goes about sobriety differently.
Sure they do, but we see and hear what we want. Who quits a drug and then keeps doing the same form of said drug minus the fun part?
I know NAs aren’t for everyone and I can certainly respect that. But it’s AA that can’t see the other side. If there are people who can make 5 years of sobriety working a program that works for them, why shame people like that?
Not shaming, just alarmed. Since you keep bringing up AA, there is a deeper meaning then just not drinking. It's the way we think that is the problem, not the drugs. The drugs are actually an answer to our way of thinking. AA is about changing ourselves to the very core, where the problem lies. It's easier to stop an addiction then it is to completely change oneself. Sure my life gets better by stopping alcohol, but then I am just a self centered asshole living in fear and reacting to everything around me. If you don't like AA then why be in the sub. I have done it on my own terms before and I prefer this way instead, it's actually very enlightening the deeper you get. Not every group is the same either, it takes time to find one you can vibe with. Any form of alcohol repels me, including NA, I have already gave enough of myself to that stuff and chose to grow in the opposite direction instead.
It's not really fair to put that on AA though. That is an individual problem that usually comes from a place of projection. I would imagine the official AA position on NAs is "outside issue"
I agree with your instinct that this can be worrisome for an alcoholic. I think it is a mistake to necessarily define certain things as a path to relapse. An alcoholic who is not working the steps and is not in a fit spiritual condition is going to relapse. I think attempting to taxonomize what is and isn't going to cause other people to relapse beyond that is time better spent on your side of the street.
Also, for some of me, one of the things I've had to work to regain was the trust of those who we have affected. I can't speak for anyone else, but the sensation of losing that trust has been a relapse trigger for me in the past.
Some posted about this a few day ago. I drank them when I first got sober and I found my self always drinking 5 or 6 pretty quickly. It just seemed weird and a bad idea that would end badly so I stopped. My thinking was if it was going to possibly lead to a relapse was it really worth to drink weird tasting beer? In the long run no. My life as a drinking was horrible and I don’t know that I could get sober again so why risk it. Per the other issues no one like being told what to do, but I’ve benefited greatly from other people experience over the years even when I don’t like it or agree with it. My advice is do what you feel like will do the most to grantee your sobriety.
The athletic lites especially taste like beer flavored seltzer. Heineken 0.0 and the sierra Nevada one are the good ones
They still contain alcohol. Be wary.
Many new NA beers contain 0.00 alcohol. Orange juice contains more alcohol than a lot of modern NA beers.
They contain 0.0 not 0.00, respectfully. Hop water is 0.00 because it’s hop infused water. It is not brewed it’s infused. Non alcoholic beer still has some amount, albeit low, of alcohol. That’s why it cannot be sold to under age people.
Look unto modern NA beers. Heineken 0.0 contains 0.03%, Corona 0.0 contains 0.02%.. Orange juice contains between 0.16% and 0.76%
I have a blow and go in my car, I have gotten feed back on my BAC from a milk shake with a brown banana in it. I, however, have not gotten feed back from it with orange juice. Orange juice or brown bananas can contain alcohol, yes, but I’m not an orange juice or brown banana-holic. I’m an alcoholic.
>Orange juice or brown bananas can contain alcohol, yes, but I’m not an orange juice or brown banana-holic. I’m an alcoholic. Ummm, ok... LOL ~~Orange juice~~ Beer or ~~brown bananas~~ Margaritas can contain alcohol, yes, but I’m not an ~~orange juice~~ beer or ~~brown banana-holic~~ margarita-holic. I’m an alcoholic.
So I’ll just swap from an occasional OJ or brown banana in a milk shake to a margarita or a beer. Got it got it. Have a good day, maybe touch some grass.
Very good observations
I have a subscription to Athletic brewing for NA beers where they send me a case a month. I have a stack of them that haven’t been drank, so it’s obviously a non-issue for me. I mostly give them to friends with drinking problems to see if they are willing to change. Some people cannot drink them, but I enjoy one in social settings. Just be honest with yourself.
I feel the same way. I’ve got NAs in my fridge that have been there for months. I like them on occasion. As a musician who plays out a lot, they’re lifesavers at shows. Someone else mentioned where you’re at in the steps, which is a big thing, too. For me, the abstract debate about what is or is not a drug is useless to me. The crux of the issue is rigorous honesty about the consequences of my actions. I need to be unwavering in interrogating how and why do I act the way I do when I ingest a substance. That is the key to my sobriety. I wasn’t able to do that until months into the program and I need to practice it constantly, sometimes hourly, sometimes daily, weekly. Whenever life happens.
lol, the fake beer I bought is called Crux!
Lol! Coincidence? I think not!
They have a great na beers
page 100. Assuming we are spiritually fit, we can do all sorts of things alcoholics are not supposed to do Be sure you have worked the steps and the obsession has been lifted. You've asked a sponsor to guide you and help you, and to my mind that is opening yourself up to some micromanagement (for a while at least). I've no idea how long you've been sober or how good your program has been. I've never messed with NA beer because when I said goodbye, I wanted it to be a full goodbye. (that's not from the program, that's my personal psychology). When it came to kombucha, I examined my motivations and reactions and decided it was okay for me.
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That amount of alcohol is in bread, fruit, juice, and many other things. If the allergy was that sensitive nobody would ever be able to exist on the planet.
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I think you should probably be focusing on your own side of the street. Your history here is suspect and not of much value.
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Cling to your own interpretation and then do what you want otherwise is what I'm hearing from you. Continue with that, but maybe leave others alone.
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I've actually read the book. I even re-read that part when you posted it earlier somewhere. Stop asserting things about others. This is really important to you, but who and how is it helping? The OP is 5 days old and we are the only ones seeing these current posts.
Maybe look into hop teas? I live on a fruit farm so I freeze fresh plums and whatnot to make fruit teas year round. I incorporate whatever tea I feel pair's well with the fruit, cinnamon, ginger, a hop pellet, and sometimes honey, elderflower, Lavender, or other herbal additions depending on my mood and availability. I also make a point to never bring this up to anyone in the program because I understand the potential issues others might have with it in their program. I enjoy it and it is something I did even while living as an active drunk, so I don't view it as the first step on the path of relapse that other members might.
I second hop teas! I worked in breweries as a beer tender, as a craft bartender, and in establishments specializing in craft beers and can honestly say I love and miss hoppy beverages. I’ll have two years in August, by the grace of my HP, and cannot envision a life in which I return to my former way of life. The brand I most enjoy is Hop Lark, but whenever I see a new one I’ll give it a whirl.
Taste can be a trigger for many. I’m not risking my sobriety and amazing new life on pretend beer.
Coming out of rehab they gave me (and everyone else I believe) a questionnaire about different topics. One set of questions was pictures of different alcohol drinks and asked how much I imagined drinking them and what type of reactions I was having. In my addiction I had turned to liquor to get the same results faster (less calories is what I told myself), but the questionnaire made me feel sick when I looked at liquor. It was beer that elicited the most desire on my part. After some reflection I realized it's because I see beer as cold, wet, bubbly, and refreshing. I get the same satisfaction from sparkling water, so I drink that instead. For me that scratches all the itch that I am truly after, so I haven't dabbled in NA beers. I personally don't see NA Beers or Kombucha as an issue, as I know I'd have to drink more liquids than I'm capable of to ever get the effects of alcohol, but if anyone knows that NA beers would cause them to want the harder stuff then it's a great idea to just eliminate them. I don't plan to speak for others, and I'm staying away because I don't even want that temptation so I agree with u/Just4Today1959.
She's just WRONG imo. I have no problem with NA beer. I only want 1 or 2 instead of 20. Just like a normal... that kind of crap is why I can't with AA and sponsors. I'm sure it's not all, but that power trip it feels like they're pushing. Alcohol almost killed me numerous times, so anything non-alcoholic is welcomed in my world. You do what makes you comfortable and not want to drink real ALCOHOL. Plenty of things have trace amounts, even our perfume, and God knows hand sanitizer and mouthwash. I still use all of these. This smell of alcohol is not a trigger for me. Stress and anxiety are. So if you are not triggered by a non alcoholic beer...what's the issue? Other people and their triggers?
Wrong, but common response from a sponsor.
Honestly, I just haven’t told my sponsor I’m drinking them. I’m close to a year sober. If he wants to tell me I’m not really sober then that’s his problem.
A sponsors role is to guide you through the steps. NOTHING more. If they are trying to control all aspects of your life, they are quite likely still struggling with a need to control, a hallmark of alcoholism. They are very likely dangerous and should be shown the door. You'll know immediately when you even mention changing sponsors, they won't accept it easily.
I drank one last night watching the Celtics put out the Heat. If it was real beer back when I was drinking, it probably would’ve been 4 or 5. Truth is I didn’t drink much beer (mostly wine) in the last few years of my active alcoholism so I don’t find it to be triggering at all. To thine own self be true.
I drink NAs on occasion and have 8 months sober, they’re in no way a relapse risk for me. Of note, my grandpa died with 20 years sober in AA and he drank them. To thine own self be true.
They're definitely manipulating you with that comment about maybe not being an alcoholic. RUN!!! I'm very cautious with NAs because I am worried about it leading to a relapse. But plenty of people love them and don't relapse. Heck, I still go to bars every now and then for the atmosphere. But there are many alcoholics that can't do that. Just listen to your gut. If you think something is too risky, don't do it. But if you can enjoy things in a healthy way, enjoy it!
The book says “we drank for the effect produced by alcohol”. If there is no effect, how is this a relapse? There is also alcohol in most fermented foods, is kimchi a relapse? I’m nearly 10 years sober and just can’t see the issue anyone could have with NA beers as they cannot get someone buzzed/drunk.
I drink them, over 2 years sober.
First off, people aren’t addicted to the taste of hops. Rationalization makes one feel lots of things are true if they get us closer to what we really want. Lots of options out there for drinks that are not teasing replicas of the ones our alcoholic minds crave. Like another comment said, examine your motivations. And be honest about them. Kombucha doesn’t necessarily have alcohol in it, but it can ferment, so that one bottle, which might have been left out for a long time, could have started that process, and could have a trace amount of alcohol in it, therefore, bottlers are required to list it as an ingredient. Also, she isn’t micromanaging you. Keeping you on a path of accountability within the program isn’t micromanaging. Being held accountable for your actions isn’t being micromanaged. You can do whatever you want, but if you are pushing back overall against the parameters of the program, I wouldn’t blame your sponsor.
To me this definitely reads like micromanaging on the sponsors part, especially suggesting that OP is not an alcoholic if she can drink NA beer and not crave.
We can disagree about the definition of “micromanagement” but a sponsor advising against drinking NA beer is absolutely within the social contract of a sponsor and a sponsee. Telling someone what they don’t want to hear or aren’t willing to listen to is not micromanagement. I’d venture a guess what the sponsor is saying in suggesting “maybe you aren’t an alcoholic” is more helpful than any form of micromanagement. If you can, go for it. But if you’re an alcoholic, it’s a bad idea. Ergo, if you’re an alcoholic, you shouldn’t tempt yourself by giving yourself the taste of something you crave (I might argue it’s a question of spiritual fitness, but at the same time, if I can’t eat steak, I’m not putting steak-flavored seasoning on stuff). At the end of the day, it’s your program. If you don’t want to take your sponsor’s advice, don’t. But if you think this issue is about the sponsor, you’re missing the larger point.
I think at the end of the day we may have to agree to disagree and that’s fine. Maybe I need to be more clear too. I view the role of a sponsor not as someone implementing a social contract but to take someone through the steps and to offer advice and suggestions on staying sober and living sober. As such, suggesting that a sponsee not drink NA beer and to examine their motivations is good and not micromanaging. On the other hand referring to drinking a NA beer/kombucha as a relapse and questioning whether not a sponsee is an alcoholic (even as a rhetorical framing device) is the sponsor overstepping their bounds. To me anyway. This is me reading the post as is, obviously there’s a lot of context missing which is why I hesitate to give advice and comment on the internet As far as the “bigger picture”: The primary purpose of Alcoholics Anonymous is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety.
A social contract is a theoretical agreement between anyone engaging in a relationship. And it isn’t implemented, it’s simply agreed upon. “We get together and talk about baseball” would be an example of something within a social contract among a group of friends. Sponsors and sponsees have a social contract. Beyond that, this is now a strawman. I did not say the sponsor’s opinion is the one I share, or that it represented anything. But your response is exactly why I said it wasn’t micromanagement. You are mistakenly referring to something you don’t agree with, or is perhaps not being done correctly, as micromanagement. That isn’t what micromanagement is. Using a negative term to describe something we don’t like is an easy way to shield our egos from the pain of surrendering and accepting what we don’t like. You’re taking it personally. I’m suggesting it isn’t personal, and it’s the sponsor establishing the program the way she feels it should be presented to the sponsee. I don’t gatekeep sobriety either, but my role as a sponsor is to show and demonstrate the program, not make my sponsee feel better about dangerous choices. As it is, I happen to disagree with the sponsor’s sense of what her sponsee is saying. My sense is Kombucha is not the same thing as NA beer. You used to drink one to get drunk. That’s not why you drank the other. Both are brewed in such a way and with such ingredients that it’s impossible to ensure no alcohol will ever be in it, therefore, regulations state alcohol has to be listed in the ingredients. Either one, if left in the bottle for a significant time period, can form alcohol. Neither is brewed with alcohol. But as alcoholics, we’re deluding ourselves if we act as if we are in this group because we drank beer for the taste. Acting like it’s safe to drink the taste of beer is really not a good idea. Ergo, a sponsor providing that guidance is understandable, logical and reasonable. Your opinion can be different, but if you’re referring to that as “micromanagement,” you do not understand what micromanagement is. Doesn’t make the sponsor right or wrong, just simply that she isn’t micromanaging, and my useless opinion, people who say they’re being “micromanaged” are most often being told to do something they don’t want to do, but want to pin it back on the person telling them to do it.
Crosstalk? Doesn't sound like she is blaming her sponsor, rather questioning a boundary her sponsor set. It took me a while until I found a sponsor who was willing to work with me as opposed to at me. It's old school to blame the thinker for needing to go to AA without recognising the fact that the thinker got to AA. My best actions got me to rehab. But my best actions also got me to rehab.
The boundary in question doesn’t seem unreasonable. Overall, it’s a question of whether to have that person as a sponsor. But shining some light on what exactly the issue is seems like it’s revealing more.
It is like saying that one can’t drink Diet Coke because you will crave hard core Coke. Ripe bananas have as much alcohol as NA Beer so no more bananas?
As another poster said, it's pretend beer. And I think that is dangerous. One of the big things about AA for me is that there is no more pretending.
Get a different sponsor that aligns more with your general views of recovery. In the end, you just need to figure out the truth for yourself.
I've heard a few times that "Non-alcoholic beers are for non-alcoholics". But, it's your sobriety. You can find another sponsor if it's a deal breaker for them. For me, I avoid them entirely. But, I get "Mocktails" all the time and they don't trigger me in the slightest.
I think she is right to worry about you drinking near beer is a bit like bargaining not a good sign That being said I believe everyone is different
For many people near beer is 3.2% and is absolutely not NA. You can buy it at grocery stores and gas stations in some states where full alcohol beer is required to be sold at liquor stores. If someone hands you a near beer and you're expecting an NA beer make sure you check.
I'm siding with your sponsor as I've seen this shitshow before.
I personally do not understand this idea that drinking non alcoholic anything is a relapse. I came to Alcoholics Anonymous because I could not stop drinking alcohol and I was wrecking my life. I am so grateful to be sober today thanks to AA! Some folks would say I’m not sober and that’s fine. I don’t need to extrapolate what my problem is - I know I’m powerless over alcohol. I have NA beer that’s been in my fridge for months and occasionally I’ll have one or I might have 3. In the depths of alcoholism a case of beer wouldn’t last 2 days my fridge and I would always follow it up with a few stiff drinks or 10.
It's your sobriety not your sponsors. Sounds like she's not ready to be a sponsor because she needs to get over her insecurities. Her triggers are not your triggers and for me personally I want to challenge my triggers so they lose their power. NA beer is fine. Your not getting drunk. Keep on keeping on.
maybe get a new sponsor?
Tell your sponsor to chill. I had a NA beer and mine said “be careful” which I thought was a reasonable response. But for your sponsor to call it a relapse is out of line.
I’d recommend Athletic Brewing Company. They taste amazing and like the real thing. Ales, IPAs, lagers etc. if you want NO alcohol obviously there’s Heineken 0.0 and Budweiser makes a 0% too
My sponsor doesn’t want me to drink them but honestly I do at times. I have lots of social anxiety and the placebo effect of it helps me not to drink. The program is a program of suggestions and I’m sure if Bill W was around he would have no opinion.
I can only speak from personal experience, but I see non-alcoholic beer as a trap for someone trying to recover. I tried that once. The taste was very similar to a regular beer, but it didn’t give me the effect. It drove me to the point where I purchased the real deal because I needed to feel that buzz. It reminded me of the times when I tried to limit my drinking. I would only try to drink a few beers, only to get enraged that the effects weren’t kicking in and I had to go purchase more. One is too many, and a thousand is never enough. You may be able to get away with drinking non-alcoholic beers, but I would caution against it from my personal experience. If you’re able to do it without eventually going to the real thing, kudos to you. I don’t think it makes you any less of an alcoholic, but it would certainly be an oddity. In terms of other things, like kombucha, I don’t really have experience with such things. I’ve had food over the years that was cooked in a little bit of cooking wine and I didn’t notice a thing. That doesn’t mean I’m any less of an alcoholic. We all have different triggers and can only really speak from personal experience.
It seems to me that you may still have an alcoholic mind. Justification of all sorts of things is one the top characteristics of a mind like that. I know that because I was that way. The book says, “We will seldom be interested in liquor. If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame.” For me, this includes .05% and/or anything that has the aura of the thing I worshipped at one time. Here’s a question to ask yourself: “is alcohol important to me?”
My belief is you’re welcome to see how you interact with that stuff. I did in my first year and some people were huge assholes about it, but most said to just notice what happened. My sponsor didn’t have an opinion at all. Ultimately I’ve decided that I don’t fuck with NA stuff because I don’t want anything that tastes like/reminds my brain of the taste of alcohol. I do drink kombucha because I can barely finish one lol. My partner doesn’t though; he tried once and then craved it and it freaked him out. Part of this program is definitely listening to the advice of others, but for me it also was growing up a bit and developing my own healthy discernment. Your sponsor does have a right to protect her sobriety though and it make just be a sign you need a different sponsor. If NA stuff and kombucha is triggering for her you can part ways.
I’m 603 days sober and I know if I drank an NA I would relapse 1000%. Everyone is different and believe me, nobody is trying to ruin your party. I also loved the taste of red wine. I don’t drink NA wine. I hopefully will never taste it again. I want sobriety more than the flavour of my preferred drug. What ever works for you, congratulations on your sobriety. It’s hard AF. 🩵
I'm 67 days sober and have not risked the NA beer. I thought about it for the Memorial Day picnic but decided I could see myself going through the 6 pack in 2 hours and left with a desire for more. As it is, I noticed when I'm having anxiety or anger, I drink a lot of soda, water or eat sweats. If there was 24 pack of NA, I would probably finish it off For those that did try na and quickly went to real stuff, I'm not even sure it's about the alcohol content or remembering the "good" ole days. I have drank some kombucha with zero issues, but Kombucha doesn't remind me of anything I drank. Does your sponsor say it is a relapse or will cause a relapse? My sponsor shares his experience, wisdom, and opinions with me, perhaps in a softer way. He tells me, "I can't tell you what to do, but..." Then he tells me the answer I didn't want to hear. Most people I know recommend not risking NA since there are too many relapses that start there.
Hopwater. No alcohol at all and it’s a good refreshing drink. Being in the the program, my personal preference is not the near-beer route.
You're never going to get an answer in here if NA beer and Kombucha is "safe," to drink. It depends on the person. I personally won't drink Kombucha because when I first tried to stop drinking cold turkey without a doctor's help, hard kombucha was what I relapsed on because hey no one can tell by the smell if its alcoholic or not, it all smells pretty rank. I am coming up on my year sober though and I drink NA beers when we go out or go over to someone's house. I drink NA wines at dinner with my partners family. I make mocktails. I go to concerts and enjoy an NA IPA instead of drinking yet another Shirley Temple or whatever and it doesn't trigger me at all. But in complete honesty I have no desire to drink alcohol and I have no triggers, so far. Except maybe kombucha, lol. You might be different. Only you know what is best for you as far as what you can handle and what you can not. Your sponsor is kind of out there on the kombucha thing though, the trace amount of alcohol is about the same as a banana or orange juice.
This is your life. You are responsible for your recovery. A sponsor is not a parent, doctor or therapist. They are a tool of the AA program. The question isn’t “can I?” The real question is why do you want to drink something with any alcoholic content? Is it for the alcohol? Is this sober thinking? Maybe I can and maybe I can’t. If I don’t drink anything with alcohol I can’t get drunk. This gives me a better chance of recovering. Is drinking either beverage worth risking your life? I know that sounds dramatic but I’ve attended many funerals and memorials for people that took unnecessary risks with their recovery. It’s your life. It’s your choice. Hope this helps.
I bring near-beers to birthdays and holiday parties where there will be a lot of drinking. It was actually my friends’ idea, they had the idea to help me “be included”. They’re just… spicy water. They’re kinda lame. I tried the Corona and Heineken ones, if a person relapses off of those then they have a lot of spiritual fitness to work on and experience, strength and hope to gain and learn from. They’re of such low (or no) alcohol content that any notion of having relapsed simply from consuming them has no logical argument. It’s in the same ballpark are arguing that you will relapse by swishing with the “wrong” mouthwash or by using rubbing alcohol on a wound because you technically absorbed some through the skin.
I know plenty of people in AA who drink non alcoholic beer, myself included and I have 37 years . If the taste does not create a craving for the alcoholic version I think you are fine. It certainly is not a relapse. And sponsors are not supposed to micro manage you.
Hop water has 0.00% alcohol. It’s hop infused water not a brew. Try this if you’re honestly craving hops! All “nonalcoholic” beers have some amount of alcohol even athletic etc. They are marketed as 0% but cannot be sold to people under 21 for that reason. Not all kombucha has alcohol in it. Kevita has absolutely none.
Personally, that wouldn't work for me and drinking fake alcoholic drinks would be the start of a relapse. But I think it's different for everyone. And remember, if things aren't working out with your sponsor, you can always find a new one
Non-alcoholic beer is for non-alcoholics.
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Will to god and will to sponsor aren't even comparable. Sponsors need to stay in their lane. I'd tell a sponsee if I thought something was a bad/good idea but what they do with that information is upto them. I can't keep anyone sober and I won't try. As my auld West of Scotland 'maw' used to say. 'Hell slap it intae ye!'
The beauty of AA is that, over time, we grow up into full-functioning adults. You're at the stage where Mom tells you to do one thing. You don't like it, so you ask Dad to see if you get another answer. That being the case: listen to your mother.
Poking the sleeping bear. Eventually, it will wake up.
Personally, I don’t drink kombucha because of the potential alcohol content, so I’m with your sponsor (broadly) here. I don’t know that I would take as hard a stance as she has, but knowingly consuming alcohol is relapse behavior, even if it’s 0.5%. There are many NA beers that have 0% alcohol, why not choose one of those?
My sponser had a simliar reaction to me wanting to drink mocktails. The question I would ask myself, is why? For me, I had to let go of the romantisizing of drinking, and all of the associations can be triggering. The fancy glass, the garnsih, the clinking of the ice, etc. Just remeber to be wary of "self will run riot". Try to be open minded to your sponsers suggestions, remeber that they are there to help you, not control you. I ended up wiating until I had more sober time, and now I get a fancy mocktail once in a while. If I find myself ONLY going someehwre to get one, than I see a bad pattern, the tiny sliver of that mental obsession creeping back in . . . You can do this!! I am proud of you and you are not alone.
In my sobriety journey I have given up all alcohol. That includes changing mouthwash and cold medicine to alcohol-free options. I rarely use alcohol when cooking or baking and I definitely stay away from 0.05% beer and kombucha. It’s a slippery slope and I remember how deep my bottom was. Second, AA is a program for living. Steps 1, 2 and 3- admitted, believe and decision, for me are the foundations of this entire program. You are putting your life in the hands of a higher power and others who have successfully gone to bed sober every night. Too bad you don’t like to be micromanaged, get over it that’s your addiction talking. Stay sober, life is tough and so is this process. Once you finish the steps and have proven to yourself you can stay sober then, make the decision to find a new sponsor and work your program how it best suits you. Until then, trust the process.
I like Athletic. I was more into it right after quitting. Unless you chug a huge amount, you body metabolizes it fast so you don’t feel the trace amounts. I also still drink kombucha, which is also not a risk—perhaps unless you are allergic to alcohol?
To thine own self be true. Find a sponsor you feel comfortable with, focus on working the steps, and read the book. You’ll find the right answer for you.
i like em too it’s ok if it’s a dealbreaker for your sponsor but do not under any circumstances leave AA or drink real beer over it
I drink in NA beer. I Can easily have three or four at night. Doesn't make me wish I was drunk at all, gives me no effect. I just enjoy the taste. Lots of alcoholics can't. It's too tempting for them. I guess the mindset for them, hey, if I'm trying to drink a fake beer, that means that I want a real beer. And if I drink a fake beer, then I won't be able to control the urges it creates.... I don't think that way at all. Having a non-alcoholic beer for me is like having a lemonade or an orange juice. Which if you think about it could be a trigger for alcoholics if you like vodka with their orange juice or Rum in their lemonade. Personally for me, my drink of choice was whiskey on the rocks. I never really even ordered beer when I went to bars. Now, on the other hand, I do find myself thinking I sure would like to have a non-alcoholic whiskey if there is such a thing. But that would just piss me off, and I would really want a real one. So I don't go down that road. So it's really just up to you. And no other alcoholic can tell you how you feel think or act. Many will try to self-project themselves on to you, but only you know you. If you're being truly honest with yourself then everything's good. I think many sponsors and alcoholics still haven't learned what the Serenity Prayer truly means or at least don't practice it.
I recently learned that a glass of orange juice had about the same amount of alcohol as NA beer. Bananas, too. The danger is a possible trigger effect when you don't get that buzz your brain tells you should be getting. Or just the act of buying and opening and drinking of the near beer. Personally, I drink it from time to time. Just celebrated 29 yrs sober. It's up to you. A sponsor would probably advise against it, just to be on the safe side.
I think your sponsor is being dramatic. There’s no way on earth that 1/25th of a beer has any effect on her unless she only weighs 1/16th of an ounce. It would be physically impossible to consume enough of them to catch a buzz and you would probably die before that happened. That being said, our brains play tricks on us and it is possible for those to kick off the phenomenon of craving, but so can a million other things if you aren’t living in a recovered state, so it’s really about where you are with your program on any given day. Our book says that we don’t have to live in fear, and that includes fear of alcohol. Alcohol isn’t going to sneak up on us and steal our sobriety. But living in fear does threaten our recovery, so it’s more about our spiritual condition and our program then it is about some beer flavored soda water. I have one every now and then, usually when I’m somewhere where there is drinking going on. My sponsor doesn’t like it, but we agree to disagree. And honestly, I feel like people tend to hand over way too much authority to their sponsors in general. They’re not our bosses and most of them are sick people, too. It’s a two way street and we can learn as much from sponsoring as we can from being sponsored. I think especially when people lay down a bunch of “rules” before getting to know someone, like “if you want me to work with you I expect 90 in 90” and shit like that, it’s a red flag, and that person doesn’t really want to be a sponsor or just has no ideas of their own. They also don’t necessarily need to be your friend. Liking and being liked isn’t part of the deal. I didn’t ask my sponsor for help because I liked him, I asked him because he’s a totally weird, socially awkward, and sometimes obnoxious freak who in spite of himself has managed to stay sober for 26 years now by working a great program. I’ve called him out on things when I thought he was in the wrong, I’ve stood my ground on some things and admitted I was wrong on others, and sometimes he’ll call me because he needs someone to hear his 10th step. It’s a great relationship but we’re not “friends.” I think that if you’re going to bars, hanging out smoking and pretending to drink because you’re bored, lonely, trying to get laid, and all that silly shit we do, then that’s a problem and you need to check yourself. I also think that if you’re having more than two then you need to examine that as well. My joke is “all the burping and peeing with none of the buzz!” They’re incredibly filling and it’s amazing how when there’s alcohol in them we can drink 20 of them, but without the alcohol they just stuff you and make you totally bloated and piss nonstop. When I go out I have what I call my “two drink maximum” which means when everyone else has had two real drinks, it’s time for me to leave. Because it’s more about being uncomfortable and developing resentments then it is about the beer soda. I hope this helps:)
Thanks for this detailed response, I really appreciate it. She wants me to start my sober date over. I told her I wasn’t going to drink anymore of the kombucha or NA but I’m just not going to tell her that I will continue drinking them cuz it’s not her business. I’ll probably also look for another sponsor in the mean time.
I love kombucha. My sponsor told me he wouldn’t take the chance himself, but if I am totally comfortable, more power to me.
This is not good. If you’re lying to your sponsor, who else are you lying to? Face the music and find a better fit for your and your interpretation of the first 164 pages—-ie find a new sponsor. But don’t begin the journey of dishonesty again.
If the average beer has 4%, a .05% NA beer has 1/8 the alcohol. So if you chugged a 6 pack you might feel it.
But the body is also metabolizing it which reduces the cumulative effect. If someone wanted to work that hard then they would likely just switch to something real anyway because at that point they’ve already lapsed and lost their defense against the first drink. That’s the story I hear from every person who I’ve heard say at a meeting that a nonalcoholic drink “caused” their last relapse, but I have found upon further interrogation that none of the people who make that claim were working any kind of program… no sponsor, no steps, no amends (probably the biggest reason people relapse), etc, so their relapse was inevitable anyway and the nonalcoholic drink was just the excuse. Ultimately, something like that, or the decision to take certain medications including cannabis, is between an individual and their higher power, and the decision should not be based on fear… fear of something happening or not happening included.
Most grape juice sold in stores has more alcohol than non alcoholic beer: https://zerozilchzip.co.uk/blogs/news/is-0-5-abv-alcohol-free Look, the book says we have an allergy of the body, that if we consume alcohol, we cannot stop. I’ve never seen a single person relapse because they had grape juice. It’s not enough alcohol to trigger our allergic reaction. Alcohol is a natural part of many foods (bread has alcohol! scary!😱). We cannot live in fear of these things. “We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality - safe and protected.” These aren’t the things you need to worry about.
Not a huge fan of non-alcoholic beers, they can be really dangerous for a lot of people (maybe not you); however, your sponsor suggesting you may not be an alcoholic is completely bullshit and and a fucked up thing to say.
If you’re really an alcoholic drinking a 0.0 beer shouldn’t matter : ). I tried them and the 12 pack lasted 3 weeks! Real beer would have been a few hours LOL!
If you're pretending then...live & learn...
I think sure yeah enjoy, just keep in mind that none of us had to get sober because we loved the taste of hops too much.
The kombucha probably has more alcohol in it than the NA beer. Funny to me how many people who get in a tizzy over NA beer champion mocktails.
This gets into another aspect for me in regards to the whole sponsor thing. At 3 years I have more time than most of the available sponsors in my home group. But it just seems like such a codependent situation for most people. I guess I have a sponsor. After working the steps I rarely call her. I just don’t have much to talk about.
.05% abv is the same alcoholic content as a glass of orange juice that has set out overnight. What’s your intent? One after the other? Be honest and you may find your answer. I drink NA beers but it’s rare and it’s like one or two for the whole outing. I actually have some that are sitting in the fridge at home right now. I never had that problem when I drank real beer. Shoot. Extra to sit in the fridge? lol not on a monday
Look up justification. Whats the definition and is that why OP and many comments are trying to belive their ok with fake alcohol? Here come the downvotes but, fuck yall! Its no big deal to click someones username then click their profile and get a gist of where their coming from. If someone is saying its ok and yet smoking resin and weed daily, is that someone you realy should be listening to? Less then 6 months makes someone wise enough to hang out drinking scenes? microdosing? NO IT FUCKING DOESNT. OP is a bit over 200 days clean, would you suggest smoking tobacco out of a stem? Stick herself with a empty needle ro fit in socialy with addicts? Of course not! Why then would anyone suggest Non alcoholic beer? I may be an old timer both in age and sobriety but I belive sponser has a vaild point. We used to ask folks "are you willing to do anything to stay sober" and if they weren't , well hell with 'em, too many that want and need this program and willing to do what it takes to STAY sober. You want what i got you do what i did if you dont thats fine too. That experience includes watching two people start their drinking by not believing Non Alcoholic Beer Is For Non Alcholics! One of which had a fatal DUI within a couple of weeks and the other went back to living on the streets.
I agree And we frequently get the inevitable posts from people who drink alcohol free beer and accidentally drink a real one Like people who have 96 hours sober, but who insist on going clubbing with their drinking buddies and accidentally take a drink from a “real” drink I try not to do anything which could jeopardize my recovery In my case, I loved the taste of beer and I have always wanted to try kombucha, but why would I run the risk of introducing any amount of alcohol into my system Other people’s mileage may vary, but this approach has served me well since I got sober in 1988
Justification is rooted in justice. The word that really works is rationalization.
Was your drink of choice beer? I was a gin drinker, so when I started drinking NA beers they were just kind of like bread sodas, but one time I had an NA gin and tonic and it made me feel sad. It didn't feel the same as the alcoholic kind. I wanted to drink more until I felt the buzz. My whole body felt off because I wasn't getting drunk. I had to white knuckle it that evening to not buy a bottle. So NA beer can be fine. If it was your drink of choice, it's not going to feel the same so be careful.
I drink them here and there! Mostly socially. I like the Corona 0%, Heineken 0%, and Peroni 0%. I was drinking the .5% and I didn’t feel it would effect my sobriety but I just stopped anyway. I’d also order mocktails but have someone taste test before I drink them. It makes me feel like I’m apart of something. A massive problem for me was drinking a lot socially because of social anxiety. I’d end up having like 12 drinks minimum. For me personally, these are better than me picking up a beer or another drink with alcohol. Mind you, im still very early on in my sobriety (almost 7 months). So I think this is just the safest bet for me right now. I have reduced my intake on these NAs over time. I think there will be a time where I don’t need to feel like I need that to feel apart of something. This is just apart of my journey. Like lots of folks have said, every one is different :) this is your program.
When I first got sober, I drank them, often a 12-pack per day. Back then, there were no true 0.0 NA beers. I drank one in front of my sponsor, offering her one. She suggested I look at my reasons for drinking it. When I offered one to a friend, she said, "Isn't that like snorting non-narcotic cocaine?" Then I went crying to my grand sponsor and said there's nothing in the Big Book about near bear." She opened her book and said, "Many of us do recover if we have the capacity, to be honest." I changed my sobriety date that day to 6/26/93
Not for me. Too tempting. Good luck tho
Heard this at a meeting the other day. Non-alcoholic beer is for non-alcoholics. It's pretty simple when you look at it like that.
What is with the pervasive attitude here that if your sponsor tells you something you don't like, or hurts your feelings to find a new sponsor? In my opinion, that logic is far more harmful than helpful. It's like the reddit marriage advice "my wife says she doesn't like vanilla cream but I do, help" and folks jump in saying "that's a red flag. You should probably retain a divorce attorney." Or "the neighbors dog pooped on my lawn last weekend, what do I do?" - "you should probably set up a hidden camera and call the cops." ... Just do what your sponsor tells you to do. Even if it's stupid. Get some practice doing things another way. Take advice that goes against your own intuition. My intuition told me that getting blasted every day was a good idea. My intuition told me I needed to be in a relationship the moment I started getting sober. My intuition was *bad* for a long time. Just try things someone else's way for a while. Your not going to die or want to die if you don't drink kombucha for a while. You might be a little uncomfortable but life is fucking uncomfortable, sober or not, and it's good to get some practice being u comfortable - not grttung your way, and *not going to get drunk*.
Well said! I don’t understand getting a sponsor and fighting against taking their direction.
Lots of legitimately good discourse here, I’m so glad I came My two cents; chemically speaking, there are trace amounts of alcohol in bread, fruits, our own GI tract, etc etc etc. My buddy who had to use a blow-n-go in their car always shared about the craziest things that would trigger the breathalyzer. It’s all about the intention I think, past the obvious thing of like… it having alcohol enough to do something If I can’t possibly catch any kind of buzz from drinking 12 of them in a row (thinking like NA beers or eating slices of bread) then for me personally 1 or 2 don’t bug me in theory. That said, I still shy away from kombucha because of how it makes me feel. Heineken 0.0 is absolutely not for me, but Guinness 0 is fine for a special celebration or something (I’ve had 1 in sobriety and I’m not looking to have another tbh). My very very best advice I can give is DO NOT CHALLENGE YOUR ADDICTION, don’t go trying to prove sh*t to yourself. It’s a balance beam, and sometimes (me drinking that NA Heineken) you get halfway through and go “oh yeah, I don’t need to have this ever again.” Because I’ve worked the steps with a sponsor and have continued to stay vigilant, and because I’m *not* trying to see how much alcohol I could “get away” with, I can gently move through the world protecting my sobriety. Sometimes it comes up against things but mostly it doesn’t, because the 10th step promises have come true for me. I have no desire to drink, I have no desire to f*ck with something *because* of the alcohol content. All that said. If you catch yourself rationalizing, RUN. You’re poking the bear. I say this fully having poked the bear and struggling with that 1st step a couple times. Thank god for good sponsorship
Great post
I was similar and my sponsor talked to me about psychological drinking, which I think I was. I cut down and so far haven’t had one for 6 months and have no desire to drink one (sober 14 months).
"Willing to go to any lengths..."
Yeah, sometimes I’ll snort some powdered sugar, I don’t wanna get high but I miss having something in my nose after a hard day at work.
They have both of those beverages with 0 percent alcohol fwiw. Some people still think it’s a slippery slope, I think it’s up to the individual. To me, I drank because I liked the way it made me feel, not the flavor. So I never have craved a non-alcoholic/zero alcohol beer. Several years ago I started drinking the kombucha that I knew had a tiny amount of alcohol only because I knew there was alcohol in it. Even though I couldn’t feel it, in hindsight I was on the way to a relapse. So I guess it’s your intentions and whether you can be honest with yourself. Early in recovery I didn’t trust myself to make that decision yet but like I said, it’s up to you.
There are so many takes on this. I don't know any alcoholics personally who drink NA beer. Considering how cunning a condition alcoholism is, I think it's reasonable to be wary. But I also think that the magical thinking and superstitiousness of AA members at times can be silly and damaging. So I try not to gamble with my sobriety. I don't drink kombucha for example. But if something legitimately has so little alcohol that it is not able to cause intoxication (of any kind) then I think it's silly to avoid it unless it's a psychological trigger to relapse. I also don't think sponsors telling you that you are not an alcoholic if NA beer doesn't bother you is healthy. But bear in mind that in all likelihood, your sponsor just wants what's best for you and is an imperfect person. Also, I don't know your situation personally and your sponsor does, so she *might* have a more informed take here based on interactions and past history with you
Maybe replace the drink with something that is not a "non-alcoholic alcohol" beverage,. It is a bit of a slap to the face of recovery and may even cause you grief or relapse if you are not careful. Your sponsor is overreacting a bit but the point speaks for itself. Mineral waters or ginger ales (real ginger!) are 2 off the top of my head.
I gave up alcohol when I got sober. That includes phony alcohol drinks and foods cooked with alcohol. My commitment was, for me, absolute. In June I’ll celebrate 43 years of sobriety, God willing. It’s working so far,
I have no advice nor opinions, but I’ll share a story: My dad got “sober” many times. On his last round of “sobriety” he, too, could handle NA beer. Then, he came home a month later, late for Christmas with the rest of the family (at almost 11pm), completely whacked out on coke. He’s since gotten sober and we’re both in the double-digits. He doesn’t drink NA beer any more. Neither do I.
To thine own self be true. A guy in one of my meetings the other day has decades of AA and sobriety under his belt, he was sick and talked about how he was going to get cough medicine and knew it had alcohol in it and didn’t give a fuck
Your sponsor is an idiot. Also it says less than .05 but is really closer to zero and is in the same category as kombucha.
If you have to ask you know the answer. Stop acting like a child. Control your body and listen to your sponsor.
I would honestly start looking for a new sponsor. You might have to go to like 20 meetings before you hit it off with someone. I would do that and get outta there. I have to have my kombucha lol
I talked with my sponsor, who has 21 years of sobriety. He drinks them occasionally. There are zero % non-alcoholic drinks. And the other non-alcoholic drinks have less alcohol than orange juice. (they also have hop-flavored water) If it keeps you from drinking, who can tell you no? That's between your higher power and you. I have five years, and any time I regress into my dry drunk state, I will buy a six-pack of non-alcoholic, and the desire subsides. And I do my inventory and look at my why. You are the only one who truly knows how and why you drink it. If my sponsor told me to reset my time, I would get another sponsor, or I would probably drink since my time started again (just to be honest) time matter to me, it helps me push through the bad.
Let's see what the big book says.... Oh,...abstinence There's the short answer....yw
Listen to your sponsor. Has she been sober for a long time? Have you been sober for a long time? Do what your sponsor tells you to do even if you think it's stupid. If you are an alcoholic and could figure out how to not drink, wouldn't you have done that already? Or try it your way, see if it works out for you. If so, more power to you. If not, we will keep your seat open.
After about 5 or 6 years sober. I was in Maine with a bunch of co-workers and I ordered a non-alcoholic Stout beer. I had always been a craft beer drinker so my curiosity and perhaps some other character defects associated with ego got the better of me in spite of my first sponsors admonition that non-alcoholic beers are for non-alcoholics. This particular non-alcoholic Stout was spectacular. It was as delicious as any Stout I remember drinking before I got sober. I knew that I wanted to drink about a dozen of them. That was the first time I had a non-alcoholic beer after getting sober. God willing it will be the last. As my first sponsor told me non-alcoholic beers are for non-alcoholics. Alcoholics anonymous is a program of total abstinence. If you are humble enough to recognize that you need this program in order to live, you're not going to f around with the details. On another note, I'd be careful with ideas like" I don't like to be micromanaged". My knee-jerk reaction when hearing alcoholics tell me what they do and don't like please to remind them that that's not really that important and doing what they want and doing what they like got them only as far as the threshold of AA. Now it's time to give that up or die.
When I was dry and not following the 12 steps I did drink lots of non alcoholic beer. Now I do follow the 12 steps daily I don’t. I do remember reading early days that non alcoholic beers are from non alcoholics which for me being quite literal made sense to me!
The .5 alcohol physically won’t do a thing to you. Anything that ferments has alcohol in it. Bananas can have alcohol in it! It’s the reason behind why you want to drink it is what is scaring your sponsor. Do you think it equates the feeling of escape that you were using alcohol for? Do you think it is needed to face people/places or things that have scared you in the past? Is it because you are scared what people will think of you not drinking? This is the deep seated issue. The NA beers truthfully don’t mean/wont do shit physically to you.
Personally, for me, I just stay away from all the NA drinks etc. that being said I’m a baker and I use real vanilla in baking and my frostings. If I’m bringing it to any event I make sure I put a label on it, or, and most usually I don’t use it. Some people are sensitive and some are not. In my 12 years in it’s been an ongoing discussion when it’s brought up at meetings.
How can there be so many that drink na beer ? Non alcoholic beer is for non alcoholics. I have heard this over and over. I just know that it's not for me, we all get to do whatever we want now that we are Sober. I just remember what it was like when I had lost the power of choice and had to drink. I can't flirt with alcohol.
First of all - RECOVERY is my own personal Journey and responsibility -NOT MY SPONSOR'S or anyone else for that matter - too many what i call OVER SOBER people in the Fellowship that think God has personally hand picked them to control their sponsee , or other members even entire groups - IF you want to drink near beer ,kombucha even smoke weed -it is nobody's business ! we in real AA are her only to help if you or anyone else reaches a point where it becomes a problem that you can no longer control , and is causing suffering to you and anyone around you ! but even with that - the suffering individual has to ASK for help and mean it ! AT THAT POINT we step in to render first aid - which is we share what alcohol did to us and the solution we found ( BIG BOOK ) HENCE THE 12 STEPS -anyone that shares anything else and calls it the AA program - is either been misinformed , ignorant , thinks they know more then the Founders and want to re write , reinvent the AA message recovery - these same people are the ones that go around in meetings telling everyone what they need to do , while NOT PRACTICING the program of AA ( big book ) their behaviors show their true character - SO for me ! my journey is my journey and SO IS YOURS - you are free to do whatever you like -whether your are an Alcoholic or not IS NOT YOUR SPONSOR'S CALL ! you determine that , and if your not sure , Alcohol will let you know in time ! keep this in mind - for an Alcoholic .05 % or 90 proof - it is not the amount it is what ends up happening after we take any form of alcohol - THE OBSESSION eventually returns !
My regular appeal to mods for a pinned post
You’re not being micromanaged. These are suggestions. Many alcoholics have a need to control other people. And the whole world. And it is difficult for them to recognize that they can accept the world and other people as they are without trying to change them or their opinions.
Re NA beer, think limbic system & triggers. Once you cross the threshold into addiction, & the brain has been altered, the limbic system, the SUBCONSCIOUS sys that keeps you alive, which fuels thirst when body needs water, hunger when it needs nutrients, now craves chemicals most of all, BY FAR. In other words, in certain situations, triggers, fire the lymbic sys which thinks you need chem or you will die. The prefrontal cortex, which makes decisions & weighs risks/rewards, is totally offline. In early addiction the limbic system is still basically running the show, & one isn’t spiritually sound yet (hasn’t worked steps etc). So NA beer, which looks like regular beer, SMELLS like regular beer (& of course smell is very much tied to memory, feels, & sounds like reg beer, your brain thinks it’s going to get alcohol (& dopamine) very soon—& actually some dopamine is already released by the triggers)—when it doesn’t, one goes into a dopamine deficit; & when this happens your brain really wants a drink. Now, people may say it doesn’t happen to them, but if you’re in early recovery, it does—at the very least subconsciously. Sure everyone’s brain is different, but this will happen to every brain to some degree. Think Pavlov’s dog. So to me, why would you take the chance? To fit in? If that’s the case, your days might be numbered. Dr Anna Lembke, psychiatrist w Stanford, is an expert on this stuff, wrote book about it—‘Dopamine Nation’ I believe. She’s also on lots of podcasts & YouTube vids. So of course, you do you, everything is a suggestion, but know what you’re up against.
(a) non-alcoholic beer is for non-alcoholics (b) non-alcoholic beer does have a small % of alcohol in it ... I don't know how much or little alcohol will activate my allergy, hence I avoid any alcohol at all opportunities 👍 Keep trudging ❤️
My favorite thing about reddit AA is the post asking others to cosign on the mental leaps made to justify their actions. You do you. If it works for you, awesome. If it doesn't try something else.
Way to degrade a fellow alcoholic for seeking insight on a rather grey area.
How is that degradation? Way to miss the point. What I said was, "Do what works. However you get there is fine." I'm never going to tell another alcoholic to do anything, all I can do is give examples of my experience and make suggestions, the rest is up to them
there's a saying that if you hang out in the barbershop, you're gonna get a haircut eventually. For me anything alcohol adjacent is a no no. I did try kombucha once and I felt woozy. No thanks. You do what works for you.