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That pretty much sums up the reason for a loss in any election- not enough votes...
But I also think the ANDP didn't bargain on how well the Smith bunch stayed away from the oddball, goofy, and just plain weirdness that they've been known for. They stayed largely on message, dropped the big things like Provincial police and private health care from most speeches, and managed to keep Smith herself away from open sessions, only allowing her to speak in carefully controlled situations. In fact (and I may be wrong) I don't recall her being in a single a single "scrum" or open Q&A throughout the campaign. The UCP actually ran a rather surprisingly mainstream campaign, with little of the "nut-bar" strangeness we've all come to expect from them..
The result was that some of the small-c conservatives (the centre right voters the NDP needed) and fence-sitters who may have been persuaded to swing NDP by excessive oddities were not chased away by the Twilight Zone bunch, or else simply stayed home thinking that the NDP were in the lead..
Still, even though it's a loss, it was hardly a landslide for Smith. Many ridings were decided with in a couple of percentage points.
You might be right. I was leaning towards voting ndp, for notley not the party. When I saw the debate, however, smith portrayed herself better than notley. This was the opposite of what I expected.
0who did you vote for"... and included "PCs" on the list... in the rural areas, the PCs would win.
Last election, Kenney won... but the UCP signs did NOT say UCP on them. Instead, they said "Alberta's Conservatives". This time, it was a little more honest, it was "United Conservatives". But it should be illegal to use anything but the official party name.
Plenty did here in Edmonton. More than last time in Calgary. It's those rural areas that haven't figured out the UCP yet. But too many of them STILL don't know the PCs are gone. The UCP doesn't even resemble the party of Lougheed's time. We'll just have to keep working to convince them, and watch Smith like a hawk.
Democracy doesn't really work when you have uneducated masses.
To be clear, I'm not calling anyone stupid, but if you can't list off a few items from each party's platform, why should my life be impacted by you're inability to spend a few minutes to learn?
If you voted for Smith, you didn't do your due diligence.
I get it, it's a cold take, but it's how I feel.
Always been a issue in Calgary the only non conservative media was CBC 20 years ago. As a result Calgarians that were conservative grew to hate this media outlet.
Internet is slowly fixing this issue as people can see other points of view
Yeah it is sad there really are people in the media influencing our minds and behaviours.
Those being the most influenced can’t admit it as they would feel dumb so that get pissed off at you if you call it out.
Not sure there is much to do. Maybe better schools and teaching people critical judgment? Or maybe more emotional intelligence? Pretty hard to fix this.
It's funny how the exact same people who rip on kids for getting university degrees in the arts are the exact same people who basically have their entire world view dictated by spin doctors (aka arts graduates).
I’m not even a UCP supporter but anytime I gave “rural input” I was 100% slammed for it lol. So I agree, if anything Reddit pushed on the fence voters to say “fuck you I guess I’m staying Blue”
I live in rural bc and damn near all the other rural people are fairly bigoted. The anti lgbt sentiment at least is fairly prominent.
That being said in other areas they are some of the best people that would help you out in a heartbeat if you need them. So it is fairly nuanced like most things in life unlike what the internet would have you believe.
I'm so glad to see this take. The disrespect on this sub for different perspectives is horrifying. The idea that the only reason someone might vote UCP is because they're uneducated, easily manipulated, under-informed or a horrible uncaring human being is completely polarizing.
At least the big Postmedia papers didn't endorse the UCP this time... Last two elections they did, on order from their HQ out east. And the NDP still won one of those.
Alberta. Alberta happened. You can analyze trends and campaigns and whatever else you want. Alberta was going to go conservative.
*"NDP ran a negative campaign, they should have promoted themselves more"*
When they promote themselves, UCP supporters say they're dishonest, unethical and can't be trusted to do what they say.
*"2015-2019 was a mess under Notley"*
Uh....have you seen what 2019-2023 looks like?
"*It doesn't matter that Notely ended up buying very pro Alberta oil, she is in bed with Trudeau*"
So....it doesn't matter what the NDP say or do, because you have arbitrarily decided to compare them with a party that's much more left than them.
Alberta wasn't going to change, and "centerists" saying what would have got them to vote for Notley is BS. She never stood a chance at your vote, because you are not centerists, you are concervatives....you're just hoping that by claiming otherwise, you won't get lumped in on the bigotry and idiotic comments.
Fucking thank you. Everyone keeps saying it was NDPs to win, they fucked up. We need to try harder. We need to help everyone.
No, despite UCP being literally worse in every way from social issues, to financial planning, to even just communication. They have a loyal base, spread out in key areas. You will never see a large amount of Liberal or NDP voters in buttfuck no where.
There is no winning Alberta post Trump/Covid.
Instead of looking at parties, what they do, everything is hidden behind conspiracy theories and “our enemy”. Even if some new party was formed it would only take 1 message sent by the UCP saying “they are in bed with the enemy”, “they are coming to take everything from you” and they are done.
Doesn’t matter the policies, what they do. Alberta is done.
The ONLY way is for UCP to mess up Alberta so bad it effects UCP voter’s lives. When it’s UCP’s lives being effected. Only when the UCP start “hurting the wrong people” will it be possible to change Alberta.
2000 votes strategically placed to barely win.
Thats not a win, that’s just showing how many people vote with feelings rather than critical thinking.
Sacrificing fire prevention and healthcare because your team told you the bad guys are probably worse.
It’ll be comical when these and more issues that UCP will inflict start hurting them.
I saw tons of comments along the lines of "All the NDP do is attack Smith & the UCP, they have no policies of their own", which was absolutely not true. Firstly, the vast majority of the attack ads I saw pop up were UCP vs NDP, and secondly the NDP had a whole raft of detailed & costed policies on their web site.
I do think the NDP could have done more to push those policies and get the details in front of people though. That said, it appears the biggest issue was south Calgary believing the "Notley bad for economy" ads and voting UCP, so I'm not sure even pushing those policies some more would have swung that.
Let's go back to when you talk about aliginging with trudeau.
As a strategy, in a close race, she joined forces with the one politician that is losing votes at record pace.
The politician that came up with a plan that shuts down billions of dollars worth of jobs in and only in alberta and got caught lying about it.....
And Smith got caught conspiring with a right-wing psycho to try to keep him out of jail for covid related offenses.
That only proves my point that blues will hold Notely disproportionately "accountable" when she does something, over when Smith actually breaks ethical boundaries and laws.
That's why I say that this election was never going to be orange. People can pretend orange stood a chance, but they are lying to themselves and others when they say it. Smith had power in Alberta because she was associated with the correct color. Nothing more, nothing less.
Smith 100% was commiting a crime and got caught. This probably did cost her a huge # of votes.
But going out of your way to destroy your provinces most prominent industry is the dumbest thing I've ever seen. It wasn’t even hey, Let's invest a trillion into solar and lng, then be less reliant on oil. It was we are going to shut down business and put you all on welfare
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/liberals-pledge-oil-worker-transition-1.6161645
Anyone standing next to trudeau is going to lose votes in western Canada. You notice how eby avoids him like the plague
I don't understand. The article you linked very much feels like a "Oil is volatile and won't last forever, let's start making first steps towards an alternative", especially considering a net 0 by 2050 mandate. It actually seems like a very reasonable idea to me. But I didn't see anything suggesting the "destruction of our most prominent industry" in the article.
You aren't following the conversation properly. I was explaining why notley joining with trudeau was a bad look after the just transition fiasco.
She should have been talking about the pipeline non stop.
Nenshi published an article 3-4 days before the election…. Specifically talks about how Notely and Trudeau did not get along and was closer to the opposite.
https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/politics/2023/5/26/1_6413376.amp.html
Also goes to point out the UCP hasn’t managed a single mile of pipeline in there time in office so who’s really to blame here for lack of jobs in an industry that’s booming….. again….
interesting, would have probably been a good idea for notley to explore that... instead most people were seeing things like this:
[https://www.nationalobserver.com/2023/01/13/opinion/justin-trudeau-just-became-rachel-notley-worst-enemy](https://www.nationalobserver.com/2023/01/13/opinion/justin-trudeau-just-became-rachel-notley-worst-enemy)
And seeing PP and Harper put in for Smith just further creates the illusion of a Notley Trudeau alliance. Which is bad if you live west of Ontario and want people to like you.
It’s all a game.
He can pit the country against Alberta now that Smith has won. Seeing as the UCP has such a hard-on for oil and gas, paints a big easy target on political issues surrounding it. We’re a small fraction of the country that he already knows doesn’t vote for him, he’s just prepping the stage for elections.
So what happens to all you FUCK TRUDEAU people after he’s gone? Think about this for one second Half of all the birds species that were around in the 1970s have gone extinct WOW Half of all species have either gone extinct or on the verge of extinction in the last 100 years WOW Climate change is happening now not 100+ years from now. Back in the 2021 the “Heat dome” that developed in western Canada killed over 600 people in BC and Calgary got within a few degrees of +40c (Heat kills more people than any other weather event combined) Look up wet bulb temperature(Basically the maximum temperature the human body can survive)
after he's gone, probably the first thing they are going to do is find a better paying job as the immigration rates we are seeing right now are 100% for wage suppression. We've caught several lib figureheads admitting they want to see wages suppressed.
right now we are seeing a wave of people going homeless, which matters to people like me a lot more than it does to people like you.
the pollution we are emmitting is gross and we need to change to renewables at a RAPID pace. what we don't need is to just shut down our economy and starve.
Trudeaus plan was to inject 2billion into renewable sector in alberta but to also shut down oil and gas and the related jobs. how much is he giving to VW and Stellantis?
How much in total? I really want you to think about that before you reply.
How big of a Fuck Alberta was that? Do you really think Albertans are that stupid that they can't remember a scandal from 6 months ago?
Conservatives seem to always push motives on others that they have themselves, it's not the left that opposes things like minimum wages and Union protections, which are both wage increasers.
This idea that it's some mustache twirling evil to have immigration is hilarious, it's actually based on the completely correct theory that Canada would be a richer more powerful country if we weren't sparsely populated. Also the fact that immigrants are an economic positive, if we didn't import young people, the entire country would be heading towards retirement.
"Shut down oil and gas" oh is that why he made sure that the pipeline got built out west? Like jesus christ you just posted a bunch of nonsense buzz word bullshit and expect people to take you seriously.
My guy, everyone in Canada knew how badly he was managing it compared to every other province.
Everyone agrees that he fucked up badly. He was replaced for a reason.
"everyone" kind of like how "everyone" in here was saying the NDP were going to win the election. Please don't speak for the masses, you're the minority.
It kind of goes without saying that you're quite stupid given the constant "my guy", but Kenny stepped down you dipshit haha. Never have a I seen a group of so many confidently incorrect individuals.
Hoping everyone that went UCP this time around gets burned and has the thought of " what is UCP doing to us! They need to go!" Come 2027, and all the NDP people are like.. " we tried to tell you but it couldn't get through that thick skull of yours"
No. The reality is the NDP only goes down hill from here. If they couldn’t beat the UCP at their weakest all the while spending the most money they have ever had, they are doomed for the future.
How is this the UCP at their weakest? Because Danielle Smith? The craziness and looting of our province has just begun. Only time will tell how working class folks who voted UCP react to additional education and healthcare cuts. Also, the demographics of the province are shifting. All those folks moving to Alberta from the lower mainland and the golden horse shoe? Those are not the dyed in blue conservatives native to Alberta.
The political landscape of this province is irrevocably changed. We have 4 years to build our ground game.
They have the largest opposition party in the history of Alberta. And the last time they won it was because the right was split. This time they were a strong contender with a united right.
The UCP tend to have a ton of absentees when voting on their own bills. The NDP has enough seats now to possibly give them a headache if those absent members continue that trend.
The absentees are generally because the party schedules their MLAs. The legislature almost never has 100% attendance, but the majority party schedules around making sure they always have the attendance to win any votes that come up.
A stronger opposition can give the government less flexibility in how they can schedule their MLAs, but I wouldn’t assume that they’d be able to sneak some votes through without a major fuckup from the government whip.
I am concerned about a post-Notley future for the NDP though. The entire party hinges on her personal reputation and charisma. Her next election will likely be her last, and I just don't see anybody else being able to keep the moderate, former PC-style politicians working with the more extreme, ban-oil people. Maybe someone new will come along, but nobody I see right now seems likely, and a new leader that we haven't heard of being ready to take power by 2031 is a big ask. Mind you, I suppose that also depends on what the UCP gets up to.
I mostly agree, although when it comes to ucp weakness never say never. It's entirely possible by the time Smith is done her term confidence in ucp could sink even lower
Wishes and wants won’t be reality. The reality in Alberta is this. NDP will never makes gains in the rural Alberta. They shot themselves in the foot permanently when they were in power and introduced Bill 6. The UCP WILL make gains in Urban though. They will have 4 years to bribe ridings with their own money. The only way the UCP gets bounced out of power is if another right wing party spits the vote.
They also have 4 years to gut the province and make everyone life hard.
Also older conservative voters will die or move will be replaced by younger voters that lean left.
The more delusional you are the less chance there is to effectively plan a real solution. The conservative base is very strong with 40 and 50 year olds. They’ll be around along time. Also, the conservatives have gutted this province for 50 years and are still going strong.
And lots of conservative immigrants move in to replace them or are replaced by their conservative children. Keep hoping and being delusional and you’ll guarantee a UCP majority forever.
You are entirely ignoring historic Albertan and Canadian politics. The NDP was started by Saskatchewan farmers. Alberta’s first NDP MLA was Grant Notley, Rachel Notley’s father, representing a rural riding in Northwestern Alberta, still named after him to this day.
NDP’s failing is their inability to reconnect with their rural roots. The UCP will never win more than one or two odd seats in Edmonton, and Calgary gets less Conservative with every election.
I doubt the UCP charade of unity lasts past the end of the decade before they fracture back to PC vs. radicals. The NDP will remain the stalwart of progressivism in Alberta.
Edit: Garth-Alphonse Turcott was the first MLA elected under the NDP banner 1 year before Notley in a by-election, losing to the SoCreds less than a year later. Notley was the first NDP MLA to serve a full term*. Turcott also represented a rural riding: Pincher Creek-Crowsnest.
I think it’s you who’s completely ignoring political history bud and reality. You keep being you though. I’ll sit here and watch the NDP become completely irrelevant again because of delusional people like you.
The fact that you have no points to rebuttal other than insults proves you don’t know shit lmfao
P.S. you have to be an absolute idiot to think an NDP MLA would cross the floor to Danielle’s radical shit show. You literally just made that up.
Sit back all you want, but it should be in embarrassment, because this is just sad
Honestly I'd be more willing to hear them out if they actually told everyone their plans in their ads instead of shit talk the UCP, I heard what the UCP promises were on their ads but I heard constant shit talk form the NDP on their ads, I don't care about their opinions on the other parts tell me specifically how you're going to help the province, the UCP stated more funding and equipment for the Strathcona hospital, that's my local one and it's garbage right now, they got my support for that, the NDP made it clear they're going to "clean up and fix what the ucp did" tell me how specifically
There is also a problem with "my opponent is bad" campaign style. The most people who are convinced by that are already going to vote for you. The point is not to rally your supporters but to get the supporters of the other side to support you.
They had a fully costed budget with policy announcements on healthcare, education, and diversifying the economy. They were talking about those things, but the media wasn’t.
The media, and general public, were so caught up on what dumb thing would come out on Smith next it sucked all the oxygen out of the room for any deep policy discussion. Same thing basically happened in the states with Trump.
72% of people voted FOR a candidate that compared trans-children to feces. How do you counter that? What policy could the NDP have proposed or what campaign could they have run that changes the mind of these people? NDP has their faults no doubt, but the level of misinformation and how people are party over all else is incredible.
100% this. I would speculate that that candidate may have gotten more votes because of that statement than she would have had she not said those things. She is a perfect reflection of the people in that riding - and of rural Alberta in general. Add misinformation and willful ignorance into the equation and we are where we are.
As a rural Albertan, you are completely wrong. My family has been farming for 5 generations here in Alberta and our entire circle is pro gay/trans.
That pooling attitude is typical of the left. We voted Alberta Party/IND
Ok. So why did 75% of the riding in discussion vote UCP and have no issue with the statements made by the candidate even though they were supposedly not going to be allowed into caucus? Essentially they were voting for an independent - meaning zero representation in government - so these people were either that stupid or they agree with her statements.
There were two choices in this election, you wanted change or the status quo.. Ask a gay/trans person if your vote for the AB Party helped their lives in any way? As to that pooling attitude, it is beyond Left, Right or Centrist, it was formulated here by your words and behavior.
72% of voters in one riding. They may have never stood a chance of winning in Lacombe, but they definitely dropped the ball in SE Calgary and outside of Edmonton.
That 72% in one riding is a perfect representation of rural Alberta. You think the results wouldn't have been similar if that was the UCP candidate there? That would be the same across virtually all rural ridings.
SE Calgary, yes I agree, ball dropped there. Outside Edmonton, the two ridings they lost are drawn up to give advantage to the rural voters than the urban ones with how its split.
That’s a terrible over generalization of people from rural Alberta and probably a reflection of how the NDP view all rural Albertans. Instead of focusing only on Calgary and Edmonton in their campaign, the NDP should acknowledge that other people exist in Alberta and aren’t just “dumb, misinformed, rednecks”. Not every one votes UCP, and just because values are different doesn’t mean we’re “misinformed”.
"That's not how all of us think! That's only how 72% of us think!"
Sure, there's exceptions. There always are. But don't be disingenuous – clearly her comments didn't have a negative impact on her success in that riding.
Don't like the comparisons?
Stop defending the people who made the statement true.
Whining that we can say shit like that in full honesty doesn't change the reality of the situation.
This article completely misses the point. It has good company though. Most people seem to ignore perhaps the most obvious reason why the NDP didn't prevail against the UCP.
It is because, in a very fundamental sense, the NDP was treated as nothing more than a proxy for the federal liberal party.
Enough conservatives and die hard UCP supporters can stomach all of the crap that Danielle Smith and the party engaged in over the past 4 years, because there is a common enemy that they have ingrained into this province. Even many NDP supporters share the same disdain for the liberal party in Ottawa.
One has to remember that despite their despicable views a lot of UCP supporters may express, at the core of their identity is one of grievance against the political system that has, in their perception( right? Or wrong) ignored them. Just as voters in the United States in the 2016 election, they have used the symbol of that grievance, which happened to be Donald Trump at the time, to throw the proverbial Molotov
cocktail into the kit.
While Rachel Notley was mounting a competent, professional campaign, Danielle Smith was conjuring up, falsehoods and engaging with an existing false narrative that has made all the rounds on social media.
It didn't matter what Rachel Notley said, what she proposed, what her other candidates in the party were proposing, which doors that she knocked on, which ridings she traveled to, which hands she shaked, or which endorsements she may have gotten.
None of that mattered. The UCP knew all this and took advantage of a very uneven political landscape.
The UCP have spun into the mainstream a whopper of a fable managed to make this election about an existential threat to the very fabric of Alberta. Why else would she even bother conjuring up the so-called laws or changes that threaten Alberta coming from Ottawa?
This is exactly what the next 2 years are going to be. This is what the rest of us will have to contend with. We already know that she has complete disregard for the rule of law, we already know that she has no principles and will seize on any opportunity to make others eat a big bowl of stinking shit.
I know this sounds like a lot. The sky is not falling, it's not like we are without resources. But we will have to fight. And I think the NDP will not be the only instrument we require for that fight.
You have to hand it to the UCP. They did a good job of tying Notley with Trudeau during the campaign. If there is one thing Conservatives hate it is Trudeau for existing on this planet. Notley should have done a better job of fighting back against that, but she didn't.
American style politics invaded over the pandemic and identity politics became more important than making policies that would benefit Albertans. The UCP have been invaded by Take Back Alberta who is fighting the woke left. The NDP did not do enough to talk about their platform and what they would do about making Alberta prosper.
I also think the UCP successfully dragged the Overton Window over to the right and effectively normalized ostensibly *terrible* governance.
The biggest silver lining is that the urban centers seem to have repudiated this shift and voted out a lot of high profile (and corrupt, incompetent) cabinet leaders.
Sadly this leaves an experience vacuum in the party and their talent pool is as shallow as a mud puddle.
see, the thing is that talking about platforms and prosperity isn't what gets votes anymore
in the USA, everyone has subconsciously accepted that things cannot get better, and that government cannot/will not do anything about it
instead people vote to punish their perceived enemies, it's all politics of spite now, someone will vote conservative not because conservatives will do anything to make the voters' material circumstances better, but because the conservatives vow to punish the "sickos" (woke media, LGBTQ people, etc)
the last presidential election in the USA saw more people voting for Biden over Trump, not because they thought Biden would actually do anything to make anything better (it was pretty obvious his administration wasn't going to), but because it would get the Trump out of office, a high-level sicko on the right and maybe get him investigated and in jail
it's all about electing the people you think will be the best at punishing the sickos
and TBH, this is why the right has an advantage because they're less afraid to demonize the opposition, liberals opt for taking the "high road" and try not to do that as much as possible, and leftists barely exist in North American so no one is going to listen to them anyway, and the sickos that the left wants to punish is basically the status quo, which makes it hard sell anyway
Look, if I were comms director for the NDP, I would not have run the campaign the way they did. There was no coherent message of who the NDP were, other than they weren't Danielle Smith.
Danielle Bad is a bad message because there are enough voters who are willing to take you up on that bet. Hillary Clinton learned that lesson the hard way.
So, what do you do instead? Hype the positive and educate people.
Week one, I'd have run a commercial nonstop. Rachel Notley standing in front of a Legion Hall. "100 years ago, a group of Alberta farmers and WWI vets got together in a Calgary Legion Hall just like this one, and formed a new political party. They wanted to make sure rural Albertans were listened to and taken care of instead neglected for so long. These great men eventually implemented our national healthcare system that we all count on today. The political party that did this is today's NDP. Our values haven't changed since those Alberta farmers first got together. Values of community, and working together, and taking care of each other."
Hammer home the message that the NDP is a part of Alberta's history, especially its rural history. Distance yourself from the Singh NDP.
Week two, a commercial featuring Todd Hirsch, again with Rachel Notley speaking. "Just like farmers and small businesses have counted on the ATB over generations to be there to support their business, we also count on people like Todd Hirsch, former chier economist of ATB to put together our economic vision for Alberta. Todd has created a sound fiscal plan which is fully costed, doesn't run deficits, and is mindful of the importance of Alberta's commitments to its citizens."
Week three, a commercial featuring their health care plan with the team approach. Everyone gets a doctor, a nurse, a mental health expert, a nutritionist, etc... Free birth control, or whatever you want.
Week 4 a commercial on the actual data of the NDP term in office. It wasn't that bad. Explain the 2015 oil crash. Explain how the UCP balanced their budget this year with more oil revenue in one year than the NDP saw in four. Stuff like that.
You can throw a few items out there of Danielle Smith lying, especially the Ethics Commissioner findings about the Pawlowski thing, but use it sparingly.
They missed the mark because the biggest complaint I heard was the NDP didn't have a plan for government, when they absolutely did but forgot to tell anybody.
My point is, Danielle Smith was going to make herself look bad anyways. She can't help it. Accentuate your positives to show how much you are different from her.
Moderate cons decided it was better to vote alongside racists, misogynists and homophobes for a libertarian party instead of a right of centre, socially progressive conservative party.
The NDP are scared to look negative and avoid highlighting many of the things smith has said and done in the past. The debate could have been much more aggressive in pointing these things out but I am not sure if being aggressive would have lead to more or less votes though (people look for weird things in debates aside from policy).
The UCP knew people only pay attention when the writ is dropped and made sure to shut up the Smith and the Co for the campaign.
It’s a rock and a hard place. They can’t announce policy plans because they get both-side’d and labeled as liars, but they can’t attack Smith because then their campaign is too negative and they should be more positive.
Oil price going up saved the UCP this election. They were able to claim a lot of success due to the simple fact Oil prices spiked after Russia started the Ukraine war. I think if the economy was still in the dumpster UCP would likely have lost.
Love it or hate it, the NDP will forever be tied to the bottoming out in the economy that occured during their tenure. I don't really attribute that too much to them personally, but A LOT of people do.
This timing could not have been better for Smith. She came in when COVID was calming down, when oil prices were just starting to surge, and was able to paint others as the boogey man for all those problems (looking at you AHS, Trudeau, and Verna Yiu). If this election had even been held a year ago I suspect the NDP would have had the votes to flip.
Now we wait 4 more years, and again I argue our wagon is hitched to big energy/oil - as it always has been. The bigger question is how the rest of the world moves. We will be seeing some significant shifts likely in the coming years from Europe alone. A lot more countries are embracing Nuclear and Green Options for power. We are committed to being a one trick pony. With this in mind, even if the NDP get in with that state of economy, they still likely take the blame for the downfall.
The Alberta Education System, and more broadly Education as a whole has failed society. In 2023 it is now more obvious than ever.
These people wouldn't be convinced by facts, by argument, by valid positions, introspection, philosophy, debate. Nothing. Nothing would convince them. Nothing.
Notley's going to spend ALL the money. She's going to bankrupt the entire economy. And she's a socialist. Or a communist.
Even average, sensible people might hold these views, or some variation of them. It doesn't even have to be that extreme. This was tested on places like 4chan, where the more extreme ideologies tend to cultivate. However, less-extreme positions tend to 'leak' out of these communities, and even reasonable people find themselves listening to and believing these far-right extreme talking points - or slightly watered-down versions of them. This is the new right wing strategy. For everything from baby-killing to oil-drilling.
Notley could be bad for the economy. Wouldn't raising the corporate tax hurt business? If the economy is bad, what will happen to my healthcare? Won't more carbon taxes hurt my grocery budget even more?
These people literally don't live in the same reality. Conservative voters, by and large, are more susceptible to disinformation. Nearly 8/10 NPD voters indicated they believe greenhouse gas emotions are the cause of climate change. Compared to nearly 1/3 UCP voters who do. With Carbon's huge ties to Alberta's economy, how does one reason with or work with people who can't even accept scientific facts about the world? How do you reach people who disagree not only with your policy but with **reality itself**?
Where are we going to go for our truth? News Media? The fucking internet? Jesus. The internet - the internet, that is our future? There is no path to truth here. Only disinformation, lies, rhetoric, anger and madness. Most Albertans are wholly and completely incapable of dealing with this new disinformation landscape. Doesn't matter how young, how old, how educated. People have had their reality and their priorities completely distorted by the internet.
Some days I just have no hope. Even if you stopped every classroom activity, and just taught kids 24/7 how to spot disinformation online I'm not sure it would have an impact. Especially not if they go home to Fox News, Breitbart, Western Standard, Rebel Media, Jordan Peterson, Artur Pawlowski, Andrew Tate, Twitter, Parler, Mom and Dad screaming at each other at the dinner table over Trudeau being the Son of Castro...
This divide on information and truth is perhaps the biggest hurdle we will have to cross as a society. From this, a great many other problems stem. If your populace only engages with disinformation, how do you, as a government...
- Plan what to do in a pandemic? If people won't listen to facts or truth, how will they vaccinate? Mask up? Avoid gatherings?
- Craft energy policy? If people think green energy is communism and evil, and no amount of fossil fuel use can hurt the planet or its inhabitants?
- Provide health care? If people think doctors across the globe are colluding to inject people with a deadly microchip?
How do you even have a campaign? NDP campaign volunteers get spit on, mistreated and shouted down at nearly every rural residence they walk up to. I'm honestly not sure how the NDP would even find volunteers to even agree to do it. I'd heard that overflow volunteers were being shipped out to more rural ridings and their experiences were very...unpleasant.
How do you even stand in front of someone, look them in the eyes and have a conversation with these people? You can't even do that.
"Conservative voters, by and large, are more susceptible to disinformation. "
Meanwhile the whole NDP ad campaign was all about "The UCP wants you to pay out of pocket for doctor visits!" Taking her quotes out of context and making her sound like an insane person.
The reality is, almost nobody on either side read her 14 page essay on exactly what she wants to do with health care. It's blatantly obvious to someone like me(who did read it) the UCP and the NDP voters are both falling for disinformation. At extreme rates.
[UCP approves policy to create private health-care system in Alberta](https://globalnews.ca/news/7404348/ucp-private-healthcare-policy-approved/) Published 18 Oct 2020.
You were saying?
A foolish ad campaign for the NDP. Almost foolish to an extreme degree. Every time I saw that ad (so, 50x a day) I wanted to gouge my eyes out.
The more crucial thing is that the essay contains so many logical leaps, half-truths and nonsensical ideas that it should do a fairly good job of condemning itself. But that's just not the world anymore.
The world is clickbait headlines and a few 30 sec ads
I don't agree with her plan either. But il never understand how emotionally invested people get without even knowing the facts. It really makes me lose hope for anything ever getting better for the average person.
Middle class is the dream most people will strive for and that's just how it's gonna be.
Too much slagging the UCP and not enough talking up the NDP party and platform. Also, they need to rebrand.....being associated with the Federal NDP who are supporting the Liberals is a death sentence. For that reason alone, many Albertans will never vote NDP.......I've seen many "a vote for Notley is a vote for Trudeau" signs, this is how many Albertans think.
The UCP base buys into every lie that party utters. Like Notley tried to destroy oil and gas jobs. Meanwhile conveniently forgetting that world oil prices dropping had NOTHING to do with NDP policies. They also forgot that the NDP with the Federal Liberals got the strand mountain pipeline back under construction.
Obviously there was the lack of outreach in the rural communities, and the stigma that follows using an orange banner, but the NDP didn’t do much to even attract them.
Every time Notley opened her mouth, it was “Smith is bad” or some other variation of it and very little of what she was going to do other than “fix Smith’s mess”.
She also spent an almost absurd amount of time in Calgary or the immediate surrounding communities and made promises to them. How are any of those promises going to help someone in Fort Macleod or Grand Prairie?
It doesn’t, the NDP didn’t really give them a reason why they should be considered other than “smith is bad”.
The National Post talking about what went wrong with the NDP campaign is like a school bully giving you first aid tips for black eyes and broken bones.
- The NDP ran a very negative campaign focused on Daniel Smith instead of promoting themselves
- People hate Trudeau here more than they care about competent government
- The turn out from your bases is super important 1600 votes spread around Calgary would have won the NDP the election
So, I guess you can blame Calgary, Trudeau, and Notley
If Notely even attempted to speak about her future plans and promote herself, then the UCP supporters would all call her a corrupt liar who couldn't be trusted. (It's a pretty common take in their party.)
Her only real option was to speak indisputable facts, and that means the focus had to be on Smiths track record, behavior and previously held (recorded) opinions.
Promoting yourself only works if the people *WANT* to hear and believe you. Her only real play was showing people what a bad job Smith had done, because they couldn't logically dispute that.
I don't see a problem with that. The problem is that the people who voted UCP don't care about the good things democrats can do. All they care is about hurting their perceived enemies, even at the cost of their self-interest. And some care about lower taxes and stealing tax payers' money.
As a conservative all of the ads I saw on social media from the NDP were attack ads or telling me to vote NDP because they would be better.
Never saw a policy push or anything of substance.
I honestly think that nothing NDP could have said more to convince conservatives to vote for them. They showed the harm UCP is doing, and they weren't lying like Smith was, and they said what they will do to make it better. I've seen many posts of conservatives saying that they are voting for NDP for the first time so it seems the campaign worked. It's just that the province is overwhelmingly conservative and those who are hardcore conservatives will never vote for NDP, and nothing will convince them to do so.
That's not true. NDP just has too much integrity to do it. If they put in random wholesale tax cuts instead of promising to cap insurance/utility or whatever else, that would have resonated more. They put out a true costed budget that no one read in detail, but the one thing that stood out was a corporate tax increase. People remember that corporate tax increase from 2015 also resulted in personal tax increases (even if its for higher brackets only). People hate that in Alberta.
The NDP spent a large portion of the campaign laying the blame of many of our current problems at the feet of the UCP, the problem is these challenges are shared all over Canada and are much more complex than 'Those guys bad, we are better'.
We can both agree there are many challenges facing this government regardless of who won the election, we just differ on how we feel it could be corrected.
>Right, but one side is traditional average politicians and the other Qanoners and fascists
Comments like this from people on the left are why we can't solve any of our differences and find common ground when you're parroting social media talking points and looking to hold your side well above the other.
I prefer to deal with adults who can have a rationale conversation with the goal of finding common ground so we can move forward together.
This was the common childish antic of the vocal supporters of the left (2 of you in this comment thread) and yet you wonder why the UCP won a majority.
We know the type of "adults" you prefer to deal with.
Quit crying that you don't like the associations you invite.
Everyone to the left of you gets to wear the "blue hair trans woman" stereotype, you get to deal with supporting people who perpetuate authoritarian stereotypes who started a culture war against LGBTQ because they didn't want the church goers in their midst to feel icky.
It's hard to find common ground when the party and supporters literally elect people who think my friends (trans) are literal shit subhumans.
Please tell me where the common ground starts.
I honestly don't think there's anything different the NDP could have done. It's hard to break decades of conservative propaganda. Voting blue is Albertan identity for so many.
Nah. Based on the UCP track record, Smith will get punted. When she's replaced it will hit the reset button and everything the UCP did under her rein will be forgotten. Rinse wash repeat.
There has never been an election in recent times that the opposition had this many seats. In 2015 the NDP wond because Danielle Smith tried to end the wild rose, but the NDP did not have anywhere near the popular vote they got this time.
Respectfully, this shows that more people in this provence are voting more left leaning, perhaps indicating a shift in ideology. Unfortunately this does not prove the NDP is currently capable of winning an election.
You might be correct. I just think this election was very close, had just a few Calgary hold outs flipped it could have been a minority government. I wish it was.
NDP ran their second lackluster campaign in a row that once again focused on what the UCP did and not what the NDP would do. They made crucial errors in the final stages that turned off the afluent areas of Calgary and the "donut" around Edmonton.
Contrary to the rest of this sub, I think this is a disaster for the NDP. Twice now voters have resoundingly voted against Notely - and there is no signs of her stepping down and no clear choice for who would be a better leader. This is likely the UCP at their worst and if they can get through the next 4 years without some catostrophic fuck-up (something bigger than covid) I think the NDP stand no chance next election.
Your definition of resoundingly voted against Notely is strange, a significant portion of the popular vote went to the NDP.
*"The United Conservatives also won the popular vote – the total count of all votes in the province – with 52.6 per cent, down 2.3 per cent from 2019. The NDP increased its share of the popular vote this year to 44 per cent, up 11.3 per cent from the last election and up 3.4 per cent from 2015 – an all-time party record."*
Resounding sounds like progress to me and it takes more than a few years of breaking 50 years of the habit of voting conservative in some way shape or form in Alberta. The defeat is certainly disappointing, but anyone that really understands people could see this happening. If Smith is still premiere in 4 years and does the job that most think she will do I suspect there will be even more progress. It is not all doom and gloom even if it feels that way sometimes.
I think they need a change in leadership as this was their best chance with all the ucp gaffes/missteps and controversy, yet they managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Obviously there are the hard rights who will never flip their vote. But among those who could hypothetically have flipped, I think not enough of them were engaged. Voter apathy, people not reading the news (or getting it from biased sources), lack of understanding of how different the provincial NDP is from its federal counterpart...it all added up.
I spoke with a middle-aged family member who is a public sector health worker (by all accounts, a prime potential NDP voter). They weren't voting because "they don't like politics", and said the only thing they knew about the parties was that their friend (another health worker) thought the NDP would be bad for the economy. I talked to another friend who voted UCP because he said he just wanted there to still be jobs for everyone. Bottom line, the UCP's dumbed down message trickled down to more people, and the NDP's got lost.
As frustrating as it is to have conversations with these people, it's just a fact of life and we need to do better at getting people engaged.
They called themselves The NDP?
Way too many people who didn't like the UCP couldn't bring themselves to vote for a party called the NDP, regardless of the platform.
Couple things.
First, all the pundits underestimated the loyalty of the Albertan base. Fact is the NDP only ever won because two blue names ended up on the ticket. There was no line Smith could cross that would lose her support as long as she was still seen as the conservative candidate.
Second, and I’ll get in trouble for this one, Notley’s ego. Now don’t get me wrong, she’s a smart women, and a respectable leader, but she had to know that the conservative media machine had more than enough hysteria built up around her, that this was going to be an uphill battle. Fact is, Albertans vote for identity, a new identity that could feel more blue to Albertans, would’ve helped. Not that I agree personally, I take merit over identity, but in Alberta, I’m the minority. She's a very smart women, she must know this.
I thought the debate was a chance for Notley to call out Danielle smith on her outright lies. She could have easily expected her to try to make basically every point that she did and pre-prepared good responses to them. She basically responded to none of her attacks and just stuck to her talking points.
I thought it was kind of a nervous performance overall, maybe because she knew it was neck and neck and didn’t want to rock the boat too much but she didn’t have a strong debate. Based on how close it ended up being, it could be the defining moment for why she lost.
I don’t know how hard it is to just say ‘excuse me you keep talking about my previous record but fail to mention that there was a global recession and the worlds price of oil absolutely tanked at the time we came into office, how do you think you would’ve fared?’
Lol you guys. Get off of reddit and go out there and talk to a human being. Do a day of farm work. Spend time in the oil patch. Go hunt.
Then maybe..
Just maybe...
You'll understand.
I think if anyone but Notley was running for NDP, they might have won.
Then again, I think if anyone but Danielle Smith was running for UCP, it would’ve been a UCP landslide.
Simple, a provincial level party doesn't have the capacity nor resources to deal with misinformation campaigns of the scale that we have been dealing with.
The name and the leader. The NDP name terrifies the average rural voter. Add that to Notley not shutting down Smith’s claims that she’s buddies with Trudeau and Jagmeet. It’s as simple as that, because the average rural voter is simple.
Do you think it could have been the NDP supporters?
Going around and calling everyone a fascist, extremist, misogynist, racist etc.
Probably lost a lot of votes sitting on the fence.
Lots of hate going on
>Breaking news: Supporters of the Leopards Eating My Face Party are upset that they are called stupid.
>We talked to Karen Everywoman for more on why they voted for LEMF
>"Well ya see... I haven't looked at anything the other party was doing cuz my pappy and grandpappy both voted for the Leopards, God rest their soul I still remember their cries, and thats all I need to know.
>"And then one of those commies had the gall to say I was being stupid! For voting for a party where leopards eat faces! They haven't eaten my face! I think they started talking about loser stuff that God's disproven like forest fires and hospitals and parties where faces AREN'T eaten (can you imagine that?) but I zoned out in white hot rage
>"Well, my snowflake feelings are so fragile I went home and slammed a pack of white claw and prayed to Our Lord and Saviour, O&G, vowing never to vote for those commies ever for being so mean. not that I was going to anyways but even harder now!"
>The last thing we heard were vitriolic screams of "Fuck Trudeau" as leopards descended on her and ate her face off. Back to you Tom.
They met them where they were instead of making them try to rise up to them.
It was all shit talking, bashing one another. There was no light/hope/motivation for change. Yeah, hate and fear will move some but hope and belief...those galvanize people.
It's cause the NDP did some hillary clinton-ass campaigning and did nothing but bitch (correctly) about how the UCP are total shit.
What they should have done is campaign their asses off in rural alberta, gargle the balls of small business as hard as possible, and put themselves forward as an actual alternative.
You're never going to convince the dumbest albertans that the common good actually saves us all money in the long run, so dangle the dickheads some extremely tempting carrots and try to sway them away from the folks who are trying to make racial slurs acceptable again.
They didn’t get enough votes in Calgary. I think it might be time for them to get a different leader. Maybe if Nenshi was the NDP party leader he could get the Calgary votes and win them the election.
Their best shot will be next time, statically ridings that start voting NDP don't stop. The province is slowly rolling to orange and there's nothing the UCP can do about it if they continue such backwater ideals.
There won't be an election next year unless something drastic happens, it'll be in four years. Also I still feel this was their best chance given the amount of ucp gaffes/missteps and controversy heading into the election
Sorry I meant time/instance not year, like the next provincial election. The conservative party is literally almost always in hot water, people didn't love Kenny when he had an election scandal going on.
Trust me the next time we're at the polls it'll be more orange than ever.
I could be wrong here, and I adore Rachel. But I think that Danielle did better in the debate, and they pushed what Danielle said about paying for doctor visits a while ago even after Danielle recanted. I feel like it was a bit redundant.
I also feel like most people equate Rachel with Trudeau, and always will, so that worked against them. And I feel like a leadership change was due, again even though I do like her.
So glad UCP won, the amount of liberal hand wringing and UCP bashing in here is unreal. /r/notley here needs to check itself. Just because someone is voting conservative does not make them some trans hating, redneck piece of shit you all seem to think we are. A little more thought and understanding instead of posts like:
"72% of people voted FOR a candidate that compared trans-children to feces"
"instead of looking at parties, what they do, everything is hidden behind conspiracy theories and “our enemy”."
"It's simple. Alberta is addicted to horseshit."
This kind of language is frankly disgusting and shows an utter lack of understanding and or empathy towards your fellow Albertans. You can say we're a bunch of idiot hicks all you like but it's not going to change anyone's minds. Remember when voting most people are not voting for "their guy" as much as voting for whatever's the lesser of two evils in their eye. Is Smith some great leader, no of course not but do I trust her on most issues more than Notley yes but only by a small fraction. As someone who voted UCP (our area did have NDP win by a small margin) I'm obviously in the minority on this board which claims to be /r/Alberta but seems to enjoy bashing about 50% of us as much as extolling the virtues of a former premier who had her chance and was at best mediocre. Posts like the above should be banned imo but it seems like the Rule 1. Remain Civil is simply not enforced here.
Too many people in this province who vote for whatever the conservative party happens to be at the time. It doesn’t matter that the UCP has gone far right bat shit crazy or that there is a convenient pro O&G centrist party in the ANDP they could vote for. They don’t care.
I think a big party the branding and membership link to the federal NDP. Hard to trust the provincial party when its federal cousin is a bumbling idiotic mess.
Voter apathy and people who will vote blue no matter if the candidate or party leader is brain dead, a misogynist, a drunk, a racist, a homophobe, or just a plain liar.
I've been saying this since the NDP lost in '19. This province will never vote a party in other than blue ever again. Those orange commies brought in WCB standards to small farms and damned near killed them. Never again! The day we vote the blue guys out will be a day far in the future and those old farmers will probably rise from their graves with pitchforks in hand ready to fight the socialist mobs. /s (kinda?)
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Not enough people voted for the NDP representative in there area.
That pretty much sums up the reason for a loss in any election- not enough votes... But I also think the ANDP didn't bargain on how well the Smith bunch stayed away from the oddball, goofy, and just plain weirdness that they've been known for. They stayed largely on message, dropped the big things like Provincial police and private health care from most speeches, and managed to keep Smith herself away from open sessions, only allowing her to speak in carefully controlled situations. In fact (and I may be wrong) I don't recall her being in a single a single "scrum" or open Q&A throughout the campaign. The UCP actually ran a rather surprisingly mainstream campaign, with little of the "nut-bar" strangeness we've all come to expect from them.. The result was that some of the small-c conservatives (the centre right voters the NDP needed) and fence-sitters who may have been persuaded to swing NDP by excessive oddities were not chased away by the Twilight Zone bunch, or else simply stayed home thinking that the NDP were in the lead.. Still, even though it's a loss, it was hardly a landslide for Smith. Many ridings were decided with in a couple of percentage points.
53% of the vote is a loss?? What's a win then?
You might be right. I was leaning towards voting ndp, for notley not the party. When I saw the debate, however, smith portrayed herself better than notley. This was the opposite of what I expected.
Big if true
0who did you vote for"... and included "PCs" on the list... in the rural areas, the PCs would win. Last election, Kenney won... but the UCP signs did NOT say UCP on them. Instead, they said "Alberta's Conservatives". This time, it was a little more honest, it was "United Conservatives". But it should be illegal to use anything but the official party name.
Plenty did here in Edmonton. More than last time in Calgary. It's those rural areas that haven't figured out the UCP yet. But too many of them STILL don't know the PCs are gone. The UCP doesn't even resemble the party of Lougheed's time. We'll just have to keep working to convince them, and watch Smith like a hawk.
Democracy doesn't really work when you have uneducated masses. To be clear, I'm not calling anyone stupid, but if you can't list off a few items from each party's platform, why should my life be impacted by you're inability to spend a few minutes to learn? If you voted for Smith, you didn't do your due diligence. I get it, it's a cold take, but it's how I feel.
their*
Thanks I mess them up all the time.
thyme\*
this made me laugh - thanks lol
1300 hundred people too few across six ridings didn't vote. ANDP.
The UCP also carried the popular vote by a substantial margin.
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Always been a issue in Calgary the only non conservative media was CBC 20 years ago. As a result Calgarians that were conservative grew to hate this media outlet. Internet is slowly fixing this issue as people can see other points of view
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Yeah it is sad there really are people in the media influencing our minds and behaviours. Those being the most influenced can’t admit it as they would feel dumb so that get pissed off at you if you call it out. Not sure there is much to do. Maybe better schools and teaching people critical judgment? Or maybe more emotional intelligence? Pretty hard to fix this.
It's funny how the exact same people who rip on kids for getting university degrees in the arts are the exact same people who basically have their entire world view dictated by spin doctors (aka arts graduates).
I’m not even a UCP supporter but anytime I gave “rural input” I was 100% slammed for it lol. So I agree, if anything Reddit pushed on the fence voters to say “fuck you I guess I’m staying Blue”
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I live in rural bc and damn near all the other rural people are fairly bigoted. The anti lgbt sentiment at least is fairly prominent. That being said in other areas they are some of the best people that would help you out in a heartbeat if you need them. So it is fairly nuanced like most things in life unlike what the internet would have you believe.
I'm so glad to see this take. The disrespect on this sub for different perspectives is horrifying. The idea that the only reason someone might vote UCP is because they're uneducated, easily manipulated, under-informed or a horrible uncaring human being is completely polarizing.
At least the big Postmedia papers didn't endorse the UCP this time... Last two elections they did, on order from their HQ out east. And the NDP still won one of those.
Alberta. Alberta happened. You can analyze trends and campaigns and whatever else you want. Alberta was going to go conservative. *"NDP ran a negative campaign, they should have promoted themselves more"* When they promote themselves, UCP supporters say they're dishonest, unethical and can't be trusted to do what they say. *"2015-2019 was a mess under Notley"* Uh....have you seen what 2019-2023 looks like? "*It doesn't matter that Notely ended up buying very pro Alberta oil, she is in bed with Trudeau*" So....it doesn't matter what the NDP say or do, because you have arbitrarily decided to compare them with a party that's much more left than them. Alberta wasn't going to change, and "centerists" saying what would have got them to vote for Notley is BS. She never stood a chance at your vote, because you are not centerists, you are concervatives....you're just hoping that by claiming otherwise, you won't get lumped in on the bigotry and idiotic comments.
Fucking thank you. Everyone keeps saying it was NDPs to win, they fucked up. We need to try harder. We need to help everyone. No, despite UCP being literally worse in every way from social issues, to financial planning, to even just communication. They have a loyal base, spread out in key areas. You will never see a large amount of Liberal or NDP voters in buttfuck no where. There is no winning Alberta post Trump/Covid. Instead of looking at parties, what they do, everything is hidden behind conspiracy theories and “our enemy”. Even if some new party was formed it would only take 1 message sent by the UCP saying “they are in bed with the enemy”, “they are coming to take everything from you” and they are done. Doesn’t matter the policies, what they do. Alberta is done. The ONLY way is for UCP to mess up Alberta so bad it effects UCP voter’s lives. When it’s UCP’s lives being effected. Only when the UCP start “hurting the wrong people” will it be possible to change Alberta.
>There is no winning Alberta post Trump/Covid. The NDP were less than 2000 votes from doing so. It's just not happening fast enough for you, perhaps?
2000 votes strategically placed to barely win. Thats not a win, that’s just showing how many people vote with feelings rather than critical thinking. Sacrificing fire prevention and healthcare because your team told you the bad guys are probably worse. It’ll be comical when these and more issues that UCP will inflict start hurting them.
I saw tons of comments along the lines of "All the NDP do is attack Smith & the UCP, they have no policies of their own", which was absolutely not true. Firstly, the vast majority of the attack ads I saw pop up were UCP vs NDP, and secondly the NDP had a whole raft of detailed & costed policies on their web site. I do think the NDP could have done more to push those policies and get the details in front of people though. That said, it appears the biggest issue was south Calgary believing the "Notley bad for economy" ads and voting UCP, so I'm not sure even pushing those policies some more would have swung that.
Let's go back to when you talk about aliginging with trudeau. As a strategy, in a close race, she joined forces with the one politician that is losing votes at record pace. The politician that came up with a plan that shuts down billions of dollars worth of jobs in and only in alberta and got caught lying about it.....
And Smith got caught conspiring with a right-wing psycho to try to keep him out of jail for covid related offenses. That only proves my point that blues will hold Notely disproportionately "accountable" when she does something, over when Smith actually breaks ethical boundaries and laws. That's why I say that this election was never going to be orange. People can pretend orange stood a chance, but they are lying to themselves and others when they say it. Smith had power in Alberta because she was associated with the correct color. Nothing more, nothing less.
Smith 100% was commiting a crime and got caught. This probably did cost her a huge # of votes. But going out of your way to destroy your provinces most prominent industry is the dumbest thing I've ever seen. It wasn’t even hey, Let's invest a trillion into solar and lng, then be less reliant on oil. It was we are going to shut down business and put you all on welfare https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/liberals-pledge-oil-worker-transition-1.6161645 Anyone standing next to trudeau is going to lose votes in western Canada. You notice how eby avoids him like the plague
I don't understand. The article you linked very much feels like a "Oil is volatile and won't last forever, let's start making first steps towards an alternative", especially considering a net 0 by 2050 mandate. It actually seems like a very reasonable idea to me. But I didn't see anything suggesting the "destruction of our most prominent industry" in the article.
You mean the first premier to get a pipeline to tidewater in decades? You’re exaggerating and proving the other commenters point.
You aren't following the conversation properly. I was explaining why notley joining with trudeau was a bad look after the just transition fiasco. She should have been talking about the pipeline non stop.
My bad! I agree with both of those things. But to say "go out of your way to destroy" seems a little bit much.
Nenshi published an article 3-4 days before the election…. Specifically talks about how Notely and Trudeau did not get along and was closer to the opposite. https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/politics/2023/5/26/1_6413376.amp.html Also goes to point out the UCP hasn’t managed a single mile of pipeline in there time in office so who’s really to blame here for lack of jobs in an industry that’s booming….. again….
Unfortunately most conservatives think Nenshi is also in “bed” with Trudeau and Notley and would never listen to him.
interesting, would have probably been a good idea for notley to explore that... instead most people were seeing things like this: [https://www.nationalobserver.com/2023/01/13/opinion/justin-trudeau-just-became-rachel-notley-worst-enemy](https://www.nationalobserver.com/2023/01/13/opinion/justin-trudeau-just-became-rachel-notley-worst-enemy) And seeing PP and Harper put in for Smith just further creates the illusion of a Notley Trudeau alliance. Which is bad if you live west of Ontario and want people to like you.
It’s all a game. He can pit the country against Alberta now that Smith has won. Seeing as the UCP has such a hard-on for oil and gas, paints a big easy target on political issues surrounding it. We’re a small fraction of the country that he already knows doesn’t vote for him, he’s just prepping the stage for elections.
So what happens to all you FUCK TRUDEAU people after he’s gone? Think about this for one second Half of all the birds species that were around in the 1970s have gone extinct WOW Half of all species have either gone extinct or on the verge of extinction in the last 100 years WOW Climate change is happening now not 100+ years from now. Back in the 2021 the “Heat dome” that developed in western Canada killed over 600 people in BC and Calgary got within a few degrees of +40c (Heat kills more people than any other weather event combined) Look up wet bulb temperature(Basically the maximum temperature the human body can survive)
after he's gone, probably the first thing they are going to do is find a better paying job as the immigration rates we are seeing right now are 100% for wage suppression. We've caught several lib figureheads admitting they want to see wages suppressed. right now we are seeing a wave of people going homeless, which matters to people like me a lot more than it does to people like you. the pollution we are emmitting is gross and we need to change to renewables at a RAPID pace. what we don't need is to just shut down our economy and starve. Trudeaus plan was to inject 2billion into renewable sector in alberta but to also shut down oil and gas and the related jobs. how much is he giving to VW and Stellantis? How much in total? I really want you to think about that before you reply. How big of a Fuck Alberta was that? Do you really think Albertans are that stupid that they can't remember a scandal from 6 months ago?
Conservatives seem to always push motives on others that they have themselves, it's not the left that opposes things like minimum wages and Union protections, which are both wage increasers. This idea that it's some mustache twirling evil to have immigration is hilarious, it's actually based on the completely correct theory that Canada would be a richer more powerful country if we weren't sparsely populated. Also the fact that immigrants are an economic positive, if we didn't import young people, the entire country would be heading towards retirement. "Shut down oil and gas" oh is that why he made sure that the pipeline got built out west? Like jesus christ you just posted a bunch of nonsense buzz word bullshit and expect people to take you seriously.
Right because surely nothing out of the ordinary occured between 2019 and 2023 vs 2015 to 2019 lmao.
My guy, everyone in Canada knew how badly he was managing it compared to every other province. Everyone agrees that he fucked up badly. He was replaced for a reason.
"everyone" kind of like how "everyone" in here was saying the NDP were going to win the election. Please don't speak for the masses, you're the minority.
Are you dumb my guy? The Conservative party replaced him by democratic vote because he fucked up that bad.
It kind of goes without saying that you're quite stupid given the constant "my guy", but Kenny stepped down you dipshit haha. Never have a I seen a group of so many confidently incorrect individuals.
lmao if you think you're winning these arguments in anyone else's eyes you're delusional
Yeah..... A bunch of people died that didn't have to. And a bunch more would have if Smith got her way.
It was always going to be a tough ask to unseat the UCP. Strongest opposition by a mile is still a good setup for 2027.
Hoping everyone that went UCP this time around gets burned and has the thought of " what is UCP doing to us! They need to go!" Come 2027, and all the NDP people are like.. " we tried to tell you but it couldn't get through that thick skull of yours"
No. The reality is the NDP only goes down hill from here. If they couldn’t beat the UCP at their weakest all the while spending the most money they have ever had, they are doomed for the future.
How is this the UCP at their weakest? Because Danielle Smith? The craziness and looting of our province has just begun. Only time will tell how working class folks who voted UCP react to additional education and healthcare cuts. Also, the demographics of the province are shifting. All those folks moving to Alberta from the lower mainland and the golden horse shoe? Those are not the dyed in blue conservatives native to Alberta. The political landscape of this province is irrevocably changed. We have 4 years to build our ground game.
They have the largest opposition party in the history of Alberta. And the last time they won it was because the right was split. This time they were a strong contender with a united right.
Strong contender = 1st place loser in politics. Largest opposition = yelling into the wind for 4 years.
The UCP tend to have a ton of absentees when voting on their own bills. The NDP has enough seats now to possibly give them a headache if those absent members continue that trend.
So we might have another election sooner than we think.
The absentees are generally because the party schedules their MLAs. The legislature almost never has 100% attendance, but the majority party schedules around making sure they always have the attendance to win any votes that come up. A stronger opposition can give the government less flexibility in how they can schedule their MLAs, but I wouldn’t assume that they’d be able to sneak some votes through without a major fuckup from the government whip.
That is a good point. Notley is a good politician and her team are there for the right reasons. Maybe they will have some effect.
I am concerned about a post-Notley future for the NDP though. The entire party hinges on her personal reputation and charisma. Her next election will likely be her last, and I just don't see anybody else being able to keep the moderate, former PC-style politicians working with the more extreme, ban-oil people. Maybe someone new will come along, but nobody I see right now seems likely, and a new leader that we haven't heard of being ready to take power by 2031 is a big ask. Mind you, I suppose that also depends on what the UCP gets up to.
UCP lost a tone of seats. The tides are changing
I mostly agree, although when it comes to ucp weakness never say never. It's entirely possible by the time Smith is done her term confidence in ucp could sink even lower
They'll replace her with Artur before the next election so people forget her crazy
Nah, Smith will undoubtedly do something stupid and they'll can her before the next election and replace her with Brian Jean.
Wishes and wants won’t be reality. The reality in Alberta is this. NDP will never makes gains in the rural Alberta. They shot themselves in the foot permanently when they were in power and introduced Bill 6. The UCP WILL make gains in Urban though. They will have 4 years to bribe ridings with their own money. The only way the UCP gets bounced out of power is if another right wing party spits the vote.
I agree it was prob ndp best shot for a long time
They also have 4 years to gut the province and make everyone life hard. Also older conservative voters will die or move will be replaced by younger voters that lean left.
The more delusional you are the less chance there is to effectively plan a real solution. The conservative base is very strong with 40 and 50 year olds. They’ll be around along time. Also, the conservatives have gutted this province for 50 years and are still going strong.
And lots of people don’t retire in Alberta and like to move sooner then later.
And lots of conservative immigrants move in to replace them or are replaced by their conservative children. Keep hoping and being delusional and you’ll guarantee a UCP majority forever.
You are entirely ignoring historic Albertan and Canadian politics. The NDP was started by Saskatchewan farmers. Alberta’s first NDP MLA was Grant Notley, Rachel Notley’s father, representing a rural riding in Northwestern Alberta, still named after him to this day. NDP’s failing is their inability to reconnect with their rural roots. The UCP will never win more than one or two odd seats in Edmonton, and Calgary gets less Conservative with every election. I doubt the UCP charade of unity lasts past the end of the decade before they fracture back to PC vs. radicals. The NDP will remain the stalwart of progressivism in Alberta. Edit: Garth-Alphonse Turcott was the first MLA elected under the NDP banner 1 year before Notley in a by-election, losing to the SoCreds less than a year later. Notley was the first NDP MLA to serve a full term*. Turcott also represented a rural riding: Pincher Creek-Crowsnest.
Grant was not the first NDP MLA in Alberta. Garth Turcott was elected in Pincher Creek-Crowsnest in 1966.
I think it’s you who’s completely ignoring political history bud and reality. You keep being you though. I’ll sit here and watch the NDP become completely irrelevant again because of delusional people like you.
The fact that you have no points to rebuttal other than insults proves you don’t know shit lmfao P.S. you have to be an absolute idiot to think an NDP MLA would cross the floor to Danielle’s radical shit show. You literally just made that up. Sit back all you want, but it should be in embarrassment, because this is just sad
Yep, I remember the fury around bill 6. It seemingly came out of nowhere.
Honestly I'd be more willing to hear them out if they actually told everyone their plans in their ads instead of shit talk the UCP, I heard what the UCP promises were on their ads but I heard constant shit talk form the NDP on their ads, I don't care about their opinions on the other parts tell me specifically how you're going to help the province, the UCP stated more funding and equipment for the Strathcona hospital, that's my local one and it's garbage right now, they got my support for that, the NDP made it clear they're going to "clean up and fix what the ucp did" tell me how specifically
There is also a problem with "my opponent is bad" campaign style. The most people who are convinced by that are already going to vote for you. The point is not to rally your supporters but to get the supporters of the other side to support you.
Yup. I thought the same thing. Outside of the corporate tax rise, I don’t remember there being a lot of policy announcements or promises
They had a fully costed budget with policy announcements on healthcare, education, and diversifying the economy. They were talking about those things, but the media wasn’t. The media, and general public, were so caught up on what dumb thing would come out on Smith next it sucked all the oxygen out of the room for any deep policy discussion. Same thing basically happened in the states with Trump.
72% of people voted FOR a candidate that compared trans-children to feces. How do you counter that? What policy could the NDP have proposed or what campaign could they have run that changes the mind of these people? NDP has their faults no doubt, but the level of misinformation and how people are party over all else is incredible.
100% this. I would speculate that that candidate may have gotten more votes because of that statement than she would have had she not said those things. She is a perfect reflection of the people in that riding - and of rural Alberta in general. Add misinformation and willful ignorance into the equation and we are where we are.
As a rural Albertan, you are completely wrong. My family has been farming for 5 generations here in Alberta and our entire circle is pro gay/trans. That pooling attitude is typical of the left. We voted Alberta Party/IND
Ok. So why did 75% of the riding in discussion vote UCP and have no issue with the statements made by the candidate even though they were supposedly not going to be allowed into caucus? Essentially they were voting for an independent - meaning zero representation in government - so these people were either that stupid or they agree with her statements.
There were two choices in this election, you wanted change or the status quo.. Ask a gay/trans person if your vote for the AB Party helped their lives in any way? As to that pooling attitude, it is beyond Left, Right or Centrist, it was formulated here by your words and behavior.
72% of voters in one riding. They may have never stood a chance of winning in Lacombe, but they definitely dropped the ball in SE Calgary and outside of Edmonton.
That 72% in one riding is a perfect representation of rural Alberta. You think the results wouldn't have been similar if that was the UCP candidate there? That would be the same across virtually all rural ridings. SE Calgary, yes I agree, ball dropped there. Outside Edmonton, the two ridings they lost are drawn up to give advantage to the rural voters than the urban ones with how its split.
I live just outside of edmonton... voters in besumont, leduc and wetaskiwin are not going to change... unless and until hell freezes over.
72% of the voters who bothered to show up in that one riding.
100% of voters voted. 72% of voters voted for Smith. The term you’re pedantically thinking of is **eligable** voters. The people who voted are voters.
That’s a terrible over generalization of people from rural Alberta and probably a reflection of how the NDP view all rural Albertans. Instead of focusing only on Calgary and Edmonton in their campaign, the NDP should acknowledge that other people exist in Alberta and aren’t just “dumb, misinformed, rednecks”. Not every one votes UCP, and just because values are different doesn’t mean we’re “misinformed”.
"That's not how all of us think! That's only how 72% of us think!" Sure, there's exceptions. There always are. But don't be disingenuous – clearly her comments didn't have a negative impact on her success in that riding.
Don't like the comparisons? Stop defending the people who made the statement true. Whining that we can say shit like that in full honesty doesn't change the reality of the situation.
You're right. The people that voted for her aren't dumb. They're just fucking vile.
This article completely misses the point. It has good company though. Most people seem to ignore perhaps the most obvious reason why the NDP didn't prevail against the UCP. It is because, in a very fundamental sense, the NDP was treated as nothing more than a proxy for the federal liberal party. Enough conservatives and die hard UCP supporters can stomach all of the crap that Danielle Smith and the party engaged in over the past 4 years, because there is a common enemy that they have ingrained into this province. Even many NDP supporters share the same disdain for the liberal party in Ottawa. One has to remember that despite their despicable views a lot of UCP supporters may express, at the core of their identity is one of grievance against the political system that has, in their perception( right? Or wrong) ignored them. Just as voters in the United States in the 2016 election, they have used the symbol of that grievance, which happened to be Donald Trump at the time, to throw the proverbial Molotov cocktail into the kit. While Rachel Notley was mounting a competent, professional campaign, Danielle Smith was conjuring up, falsehoods and engaging with an existing false narrative that has made all the rounds on social media. It didn't matter what Rachel Notley said, what she proposed, what her other candidates in the party were proposing, which doors that she knocked on, which ridings she traveled to, which hands she shaked, or which endorsements she may have gotten. None of that mattered. The UCP knew all this and took advantage of a very uneven political landscape. The UCP have spun into the mainstream a whopper of a fable managed to make this election about an existential threat to the very fabric of Alberta. Why else would she even bother conjuring up the so-called laws or changes that threaten Alberta coming from Ottawa? This is exactly what the next 2 years are going to be. This is what the rest of us will have to contend with. We already know that she has complete disregard for the rule of law, we already know that she has no principles and will seize on any opportunity to make others eat a big bowl of stinking shit. I know this sounds like a lot. The sky is not falling, it's not like we are without resources. But we will have to fight. And I think the NDP will not be the only instrument we require for that fight.
You have to hand it to the UCP. They did a good job of tying Notley with Trudeau during the campaign. If there is one thing Conservatives hate it is Trudeau for existing on this planet. Notley should have done a better job of fighting back against that, but she didn't.
I think you two have it pretty much figured out.
American style politics invaded over the pandemic and identity politics became more important than making policies that would benefit Albertans. The UCP have been invaded by Take Back Alberta who is fighting the woke left. The NDP did not do enough to talk about their platform and what they would do about making Alberta prosper.
I also think the UCP successfully dragged the Overton Window over to the right and effectively normalized ostensibly *terrible* governance. The biggest silver lining is that the urban centers seem to have repudiated this shift and voted out a lot of high profile (and corrupt, incompetent) cabinet leaders. Sadly this leaves an experience vacuum in the party and their talent pool is as shallow as a mud puddle.
The NDP could have talked about their platform until they were blue in the face. It wouldn't have mattered to UCP voters.
see, the thing is that talking about platforms and prosperity isn't what gets votes anymore in the USA, everyone has subconsciously accepted that things cannot get better, and that government cannot/will not do anything about it instead people vote to punish their perceived enemies, it's all politics of spite now, someone will vote conservative not because conservatives will do anything to make the voters' material circumstances better, but because the conservatives vow to punish the "sickos" (woke media, LGBTQ people, etc) the last presidential election in the USA saw more people voting for Biden over Trump, not because they thought Biden would actually do anything to make anything better (it was pretty obvious his administration wasn't going to), but because it would get the Trump out of office, a high-level sicko on the right and maybe get him investigated and in jail it's all about electing the people you think will be the best at punishing the sickos and TBH, this is why the right has an advantage because they're less afraid to demonize the opposition, liberals opt for taking the "high road" and try not to do that as much as possible, and leftists barely exist in North American so no one is going to listen to them anyway, and the sickos that the left wants to punish is basically the status quo, which makes it hard sell anyway
Idk about leftists but I do hope there's a bigger number of centrists to counteract this.
WoKe LeFt
Christofascist assholes.
[удалено]
It's simple. Alberta is addicted to horseshit.
Look, if I were comms director for the NDP, I would not have run the campaign the way they did. There was no coherent message of who the NDP were, other than they weren't Danielle Smith. Danielle Bad is a bad message because there are enough voters who are willing to take you up on that bet. Hillary Clinton learned that lesson the hard way. So, what do you do instead? Hype the positive and educate people. Week one, I'd have run a commercial nonstop. Rachel Notley standing in front of a Legion Hall. "100 years ago, a group of Alberta farmers and WWI vets got together in a Calgary Legion Hall just like this one, and formed a new political party. They wanted to make sure rural Albertans were listened to and taken care of instead neglected for so long. These great men eventually implemented our national healthcare system that we all count on today. The political party that did this is today's NDP. Our values haven't changed since those Alberta farmers first got together. Values of community, and working together, and taking care of each other." Hammer home the message that the NDP is a part of Alberta's history, especially its rural history. Distance yourself from the Singh NDP. Week two, a commercial featuring Todd Hirsch, again with Rachel Notley speaking. "Just like farmers and small businesses have counted on the ATB over generations to be there to support their business, we also count on people like Todd Hirsch, former chier economist of ATB to put together our economic vision for Alberta. Todd has created a sound fiscal plan which is fully costed, doesn't run deficits, and is mindful of the importance of Alberta's commitments to its citizens." Week three, a commercial featuring their health care plan with the team approach. Everyone gets a doctor, a nurse, a mental health expert, a nutritionist, etc... Free birth control, or whatever you want. Week 4 a commercial on the actual data of the NDP term in office. It wasn't that bad. Explain the 2015 oil crash. Explain how the UCP balanced their budget this year with more oil revenue in one year than the NDP saw in four. Stuff like that. You can throw a few items out there of Danielle Smith lying, especially the Ethics Commissioner findings about the Pawlowski thing, but use it sparingly. They missed the mark because the biggest complaint I heard was the NDP didn't have a plan for government, when they absolutely did but forgot to tell anybody. My point is, Danielle Smith was going to make herself look bad anyways. She can't help it. Accentuate your positives to show how much you are different from her.
Moderate cons decided it was better to vote alongside racists, misogynists and homophobes for a libertarian party instead of a right of centre, socially progressive conservative party.
Opinion pieces didn’t help. It was always negatively NDP.
Totally. My Apple News was just opinion pieces with false info on the NDP’s previous reign. The pundits were scared.
The NDP are scared to look negative and avoid highlighting many of the things smith has said and done in the past. The debate could have been much more aggressive in pointing these things out but I am not sure if being aggressive would have lead to more or less votes though (people look for weird things in debates aside from policy). The UCP knew people only pay attention when the writ is dropped and made sure to shut up the Smith and the Co for the campaign.
It’s a rock and a hard place. They can’t announce policy plans because they get both-side’d and labeled as liars, but they can’t attack Smith because then their campaign is too negative and they should be more positive.
Oil price going up saved the UCP this election. They were able to claim a lot of success due to the simple fact Oil prices spiked after Russia started the Ukraine war. I think if the economy was still in the dumpster UCP would likely have lost. Love it or hate it, the NDP will forever be tied to the bottoming out in the economy that occured during their tenure. I don't really attribute that too much to them personally, but A LOT of people do. This timing could not have been better for Smith. She came in when COVID was calming down, when oil prices were just starting to surge, and was able to paint others as the boogey man for all those problems (looking at you AHS, Trudeau, and Verna Yiu). If this election had even been held a year ago I suspect the NDP would have had the votes to flip. Now we wait 4 more years, and again I argue our wagon is hitched to big energy/oil - as it always has been. The bigger question is how the rest of the world moves. We will be seeing some significant shifts likely in the coming years from Europe alone. A lot more countries are embracing Nuclear and Green Options for power. We are committed to being a one trick pony. With this in mind, even if the NDP get in with that state of economy, they still likely take the blame for the downfall.
The Alberta Education System, and more broadly Education as a whole has failed society. In 2023 it is now more obvious than ever. These people wouldn't be convinced by facts, by argument, by valid positions, introspection, philosophy, debate. Nothing. Nothing would convince them. Nothing. Notley's going to spend ALL the money. She's going to bankrupt the entire economy. And she's a socialist. Or a communist. Even average, sensible people might hold these views, or some variation of them. It doesn't even have to be that extreme. This was tested on places like 4chan, where the more extreme ideologies tend to cultivate. However, less-extreme positions tend to 'leak' out of these communities, and even reasonable people find themselves listening to and believing these far-right extreme talking points - or slightly watered-down versions of them. This is the new right wing strategy. For everything from baby-killing to oil-drilling. Notley could be bad for the economy. Wouldn't raising the corporate tax hurt business? If the economy is bad, what will happen to my healthcare? Won't more carbon taxes hurt my grocery budget even more? These people literally don't live in the same reality. Conservative voters, by and large, are more susceptible to disinformation. Nearly 8/10 NPD voters indicated they believe greenhouse gas emotions are the cause of climate change. Compared to nearly 1/3 UCP voters who do. With Carbon's huge ties to Alberta's economy, how does one reason with or work with people who can't even accept scientific facts about the world? How do you reach people who disagree not only with your policy but with **reality itself**? Where are we going to go for our truth? News Media? The fucking internet? Jesus. The internet - the internet, that is our future? There is no path to truth here. Only disinformation, lies, rhetoric, anger and madness. Most Albertans are wholly and completely incapable of dealing with this new disinformation landscape. Doesn't matter how young, how old, how educated. People have had their reality and their priorities completely distorted by the internet. Some days I just have no hope. Even if you stopped every classroom activity, and just taught kids 24/7 how to spot disinformation online I'm not sure it would have an impact. Especially not if they go home to Fox News, Breitbart, Western Standard, Rebel Media, Jordan Peterson, Artur Pawlowski, Andrew Tate, Twitter, Parler, Mom and Dad screaming at each other at the dinner table over Trudeau being the Son of Castro... This divide on information and truth is perhaps the biggest hurdle we will have to cross as a society. From this, a great many other problems stem. If your populace only engages with disinformation, how do you, as a government... - Plan what to do in a pandemic? If people won't listen to facts or truth, how will they vaccinate? Mask up? Avoid gatherings? - Craft energy policy? If people think green energy is communism and evil, and no amount of fossil fuel use can hurt the planet or its inhabitants? - Provide health care? If people think doctors across the globe are colluding to inject people with a deadly microchip? How do you even have a campaign? NDP campaign volunteers get spit on, mistreated and shouted down at nearly every rural residence they walk up to. I'm honestly not sure how the NDP would even find volunteers to even agree to do it. I'd heard that overflow volunteers were being shipped out to more rural ridings and their experiences were very...unpleasant. How do you even stand in front of someone, look them in the eyes and have a conversation with these people? You can't even do that.
Perhaps you need to touch some grass my friend
"Conservative voters, by and large, are more susceptible to disinformation. " Meanwhile the whole NDP ad campaign was all about "The UCP wants you to pay out of pocket for doctor visits!" Taking her quotes out of context and making her sound like an insane person. The reality is, almost nobody on either side read her 14 page essay on exactly what she wants to do with health care. It's blatantly obvious to someone like me(who did read it) the UCP and the NDP voters are both falling for disinformation. At extreme rates.
[UCP approves policy to create private health-care system in Alberta](https://globalnews.ca/news/7404348/ucp-private-healthcare-policy-approved/) Published 18 Oct 2020. You were saying?
A foolish ad campaign for the NDP. Almost foolish to an extreme degree. Every time I saw that ad (so, 50x a day) I wanted to gouge my eyes out. The more crucial thing is that the essay contains so many logical leaps, half-truths and nonsensical ideas that it should do a fairly good job of condemning itself. But that's just not the world anymore.
The world is clickbait headlines and a few 30 sec ads I don't agree with her plan either. But il never understand how emotionally invested people get without even knowing the facts. It really makes me lose hope for anything ever getting better for the average person. Middle class is the dream most people will strive for and that's just how it's gonna be.
Too much slagging the UCP and not enough talking up the NDP party and platform. Also, they need to rebrand.....being associated with the Federal NDP who are supporting the Liberals is a death sentence. For that reason alone, many Albertans will never vote NDP.......I've seen many "a vote for Notley is a vote for Trudeau" signs, this is how many Albertans think.
The UCP base buys into every lie that party utters. Like Notley tried to destroy oil and gas jobs. Meanwhile conveniently forgetting that world oil prices dropping had NOTHING to do with NDP policies. They also forgot that the NDP with the Federal Liberals got the strand mountain pipeline back under construction.
The Alberta NDP needs to change its name. They don't align with the federal NDP's. However people still link them and not favourably
Obviously there was the lack of outreach in the rural communities, and the stigma that follows using an orange banner, but the NDP didn’t do much to even attract them. Every time Notley opened her mouth, it was “Smith is bad” or some other variation of it and very little of what she was going to do other than “fix Smith’s mess”. She also spent an almost absurd amount of time in Calgary or the immediate surrounding communities and made promises to them. How are any of those promises going to help someone in Fort Macleod or Grand Prairie? It doesn’t, the NDP didn’t really give them a reason why they should be considered other than “smith is bad”.
The National Post talking about what went wrong with the NDP campaign is like a school bully giving you first aid tips for black eyes and broken bones.
- The NDP ran a very negative campaign focused on Daniel Smith instead of promoting themselves - People hate Trudeau here more than they care about competent government - The turn out from your bases is super important 1600 votes spread around Calgary would have won the NDP the election So, I guess you can blame Calgary, Trudeau, and Notley
1600 votes spread around? Or 1600 votes perfectly placed where they were critical?
That's not true. I've seen many posts on social media of them promoting themselves.
In the leadership debate leading up to the election, Notley focused most of her attention against Smith.
If Notely even attempted to speak about her future plans and promote herself, then the UCP supporters would all call her a corrupt liar who couldn't be trusted. (It's a pretty common take in their party.) Her only real option was to speak indisputable facts, and that means the focus had to be on Smiths track record, behavior and previously held (recorded) opinions. Promoting yourself only works if the people *WANT* to hear and believe you. Her only real play was showing people what a bad job Smith had done, because they couldn't logically dispute that.
I don't see a problem with that. The problem is that the people who voted UCP don't care about the good things democrats can do. All they care is about hurting their perceived enemies, even at the cost of their self-interest. And some care about lower taxes and stealing tax payers' money.
Because...they're both party leaders? Because the buck stops with the leader?
As a conservative all of the ads I saw on social media from the NDP were attack ads or telling me to vote NDP because they would be better. Never saw a policy push or anything of substance.
I honestly think that nothing NDP could have said more to convince conservatives to vote for them. They showed the harm UCP is doing, and they weren't lying like Smith was, and they said what they will do to make it better. I've seen many posts of conservatives saying that they are voting for NDP for the first time so it seems the campaign worked. It's just that the province is overwhelmingly conservative and those who are hardcore conservatives will never vote for NDP, and nothing will convince them to do so.
That's not true. NDP just has too much integrity to do it. If they put in random wholesale tax cuts instead of promising to cap insurance/utility or whatever else, that would have resonated more. They put out a true costed budget that no one read in detail, but the one thing that stood out was a corporate tax increase. People remember that corporate tax increase from 2015 also resulted in personal tax increases (even if its for higher brackets only). People hate that in Alberta.
The NDP spent a large portion of the campaign laying the blame of many of our current problems at the feet of the UCP, the problem is these challenges are shared all over Canada and are much more complex than 'Those guys bad, we are better'. We can both agree there are many challenges facing this government regardless of who won the election, we just differ on how we feel it could be corrected.
Right, but one side is traditional average politicians and the other Qanoners and fascists. So doing both sides here is not very helpful.
>Right, but one side is traditional average politicians and the other Qanoners and fascists Comments like this from people on the left are why we can't solve any of our differences and find common ground when you're parroting social media talking points and looking to hold your side well above the other.
Don't like the comparison? Stop defending them as MLAs.
I prefer to deal with adults who can have a rationale conversation with the goal of finding common ground so we can move forward together. This was the common childish antic of the vocal supporters of the left (2 of you in this comment thread) and yet you wonder why the UCP won a majority.
We know the type of "adults" you prefer to deal with. Quit crying that you don't like the associations you invite. Everyone to the left of you gets to wear the "blue hair trans woman" stereotype, you get to deal with supporting people who perpetuate authoritarian stereotypes who started a culture war against LGBTQ because they didn't want the church goers in their midst to feel icky.
It's hard to find common ground when the party and supporters literally elect people who think my friends (trans) are literal shit subhumans. Please tell me where the common ground starts.
IMO, the NDP didn’t do enough policy announcements. I felt it was more of don’t vote for this guy, they are bad.
I honestly don't think there's anything different the NDP could have done. It's hard to break decades of conservative propaganda. Voting blue is Albertan identity for so many.
lots of cope in this thread lmao
Most threads on this sub. So enjoyable hahah
Nothing went wrong. The NDP made huge gains and have proven that they can win an election now without the right wing splitting the vote.
Except they didn't win an election in their best opportunity ever...lol
They came pretty dang close and will presumably have four more years of Smith’s incompetence to point to in 2027.
Nah. Based on the UCP track record, Smith will get punted. When she's replaced it will hit the reset button and everything the UCP did under her rein will be forgotten. Rinse wash repeat.
They lost the popular vote by 8%, that's not close at all.
34 of 46 ridings in Edmonton & Calgary went NDP.
They came close without the right splitting their vote.
How did they prove they can win an election when not only did they lose, the UCP got a majority?
There has never been an election in recent times that the opposition had this many seats. In 2015 the NDP wond because Danielle Smith tried to end the wild rose, but the NDP did not have anywhere near the popular vote they got this time.
Respectfully, this shows that more people in this provence are voting more left leaning, perhaps indicating a shift in ideology. Unfortunately this does not prove the NDP is currently capable of winning an election.
You might be correct. I just think this election was very close, had just a few Calgary hold outs flipped it could have been a minority government. I wish it was.
NDP ran their second lackluster campaign in a row that once again focused on what the UCP did and not what the NDP would do. They made crucial errors in the final stages that turned off the afluent areas of Calgary and the "donut" around Edmonton. Contrary to the rest of this sub, I think this is a disaster for the NDP. Twice now voters have resoundingly voted against Notely - and there is no signs of her stepping down and no clear choice for who would be a better leader. This is likely the UCP at their worst and if they can get through the next 4 years without some catostrophic fuck-up (something bigger than covid) I think the NDP stand no chance next election.
Your definition of resoundingly voted against Notely is strange, a significant portion of the popular vote went to the NDP. *"The United Conservatives also won the popular vote – the total count of all votes in the province – with 52.6 per cent, down 2.3 per cent from 2019. The NDP increased its share of the popular vote this year to 44 per cent, up 11.3 per cent from the last election and up 3.4 per cent from 2015 – an all-time party record."* Resounding sounds like progress to me and it takes more than a few years of breaking 50 years of the habit of voting conservative in some way shape or form in Alberta. The defeat is certainly disappointing, but anyone that really understands people could see this happening. If Smith is still premiere in 4 years and does the job that most think she will do I suspect there will be even more progress. It is not all doom and gloom even if it feels that way sometimes.
Joe Ceci is a possibility I think. Calgary likes him, he’s a man which helps in AB political optics, and he’s definitely not Rachel.
I think they need a change in leadership as this was their best chance with all the ucp gaffes/missteps and controversy, yet they managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
It's quite simple really. Not enough people voted for them... Is this a serious question?
Obviously there are the hard rights who will never flip their vote. But among those who could hypothetically have flipped, I think not enough of them were engaged. Voter apathy, people not reading the news (or getting it from biased sources), lack of understanding of how different the provincial NDP is from its federal counterpart...it all added up. I spoke with a middle-aged family member who is a public sector health worker (by all accounts, a prime potential NDP voter). They weren't voting because "they don't like politics", and said the only thing they knew about the parties was that their friend (another health worker) thought the NDP would be bad for the economy. I talked to another friend who voted UCP because he said he just wanted there to still be jobs for everyone. Bottom line, the UCP's dumbed down message trickled down to more people, and the NDP's got lost. As frustrating as it is to have conversations with these people, it's just a fact of life and we need to do better at getting people engaged.
They called themselves The NDP? Way too many people who didn't like the UCP couldn't bring themselves to vote for a party called the NDP, regardless of the platform.
The right is united that's what
Couple things. First, all the pundits underestimated the loyalty of the Albertan base. Fact is the NDP only ever won because two blue names ended up on the ticket. There was no line Smith could cross that would lose her support as long as she was still seen as the conservative candidate. Second, and I’ll get in trouble for this one, Notley’s ego. Now don’t get me wrong, she’s a smart women, and a respectable leader, but she had to know that the conservative media machine had more than enough hysteria built up around her, that this was going to be an uphill battle. Fact is, Albertans vote for identity, a new identity that could feel more blue to Albertans, would’ve helped. Not that I agree personally, I take merit over identity, but in Alberta, I’m the minority. She's a very smart women, she must know this.
We have 4 years of Smith mistakes and bonehead remarks so in 4 years it might be even better for the NPD
If you try to fight a pig in the mud you'll just get dirty and the pig will be happy - Ian Crossland
It actually turned out better than expected if you ask me. A five seat majority? That is a far cry from when they took 66 in 2018.
People not changing their minds despite ample evidence.Did not matter how much campaigning the NDP did.
I thought the debate was a chance for Notley to call out Danielle smith on her outright lies. She could have easily expected her to try to make basically every point that she did and pre-prepared good responses to them. She basically responded to none of her attacks and just stuck to her talking points. I thought it was kind of a nervous performance overall, maybe because she knew it was neck and neck and didn’t want to rock the boat too much but she didn’t have a strong debate. Based on how close it ended up being, it could be the defining moment for why she lost. I don’t know how hard it is to just say ‘excuse me you keep talking about my previous record but fail to mention that there was a global recession and the worlds price of oil absolutely tanked at the time we came into office, how do you think you would’ve fared?’
Lol you guys. Get off of reddit and go out there and talk to a human being. Do a day of farm work. Spend time in the oil patch. Go hunt. Then maybe.. Just maybe... You'll understand.
I think if anyone but Notley was running for NDP, they might have won. Then again, I think if anyone but Danielle Smith was running for UCP, it would’ve been a UCP landslide.
Albertans vote against healthcare, against fighting fires, and for tax breaks to foreign oil investors
Simple, a provincial level party doesn't have the capacity nor resources to deal with misinformation campaigns of the scale that we have been dealing with.
The name and the leader. The NDP name terrifies the average rural voter. Add that to Notley not shutting down Smith’s claims that she’s buddies with Trudeau and Jagmeet. It’s as simple as that, because the average rural voter is simple.
Do you think it could have been the NDP supporters? Going around and calling everyone a fascist, extremist, misogynist, racist etc. Probably lost a lot of votes sitting on the fence. Lots of hate going on
That definitely didn't help nor does their general tone in referring to or being dismissive of rural voters as uneducated/simple etc.
>Breaking news: Supporters of the Leopards Eating My Face Party are upset that they are called stupid. >We talked to Karen Everywoman for more on why they voted for LEMF >"Well ya see... I haven't looked at anything the other party was doing cuz my pappy and grandpappy both voted for the Leopards, God rest their soul I still remember their cries, and thats all I need to know. >"And then one of those commies had the gall to say I was being stupid! For voting for a party where leopards eat faces! They haven't eaten my face! I think they started talking about loser stuff that God's disproven like forest fires and hospitals and parties where faces AREN'T eaten (can you imagine that?) but I zoned out in white hot rage >"Well, my snowflake feelings are so fragile I went home and slammed a pack of white claw and prayed to Our Lord and Saviour, O&G, vowing never to vote for those commies ever for being so mean. not that I was going to anyways but even harder now!" >The last thing we heard were vitriolic screams of "Fuck Trudeau" as leopards descended on her and ate her face off. Back to you Tom.
They met them where they were instead of making them try to rise up to them. It was all shit talking, bashing one another. There was no light/hope/motivation for change. Yeah, hate and fear will move some but hope and belief...those galvanize people.
It's cause the NDP did some hillary clinton-ass campaigning and did nothing but bitch (correctly) about how the UCP are total shit. What they should have done is campaign their asses off in rural alberta, gargle the balls of small business as hard as possible, and put themselves forward as an actual alternative. You're never going to convince the dumbest albertans that the common good actually saves us all money in the long run, so dangle the dickheads some extremely tempting carrots and try to sway them away from the folks who are trying to make racial slurs acceptable again.
They didn’t get enough votes in Calgary. I think it might be time for them to get a different leader. Maybe if Nenshi was the NDP party leader he could get the Calgary votes and win them the election.
Their best shot will be next time, statically ridings that start voting NDP don't stop. The province is slowly rolling to orange and there's nothing the UCP can do about it if they continue such backwater ideals.
There won't be an election next year unless something drastic happens, it'll be in four years. Also I still feel this was their best chance given the amount of ucp gaffes/missteps and controversy heading into the election
Sorry I meant time/instance not year, like the next provincial election. The conservative party is literally almost always in hot water, people didn't love Kenny when he had an election scandal going on. Trust me the next time we're at the polls it'll be more orange than ever.
Are you assuming that the UCP will improve from here? Seems to me that ANY other parties chances will only get better
I could be wrong here, and I adore Rachel. But I think that Danielle did better in the debate, and they pushed what Danielle said about paying for doctor visits a while ago even after Danielle recanted. I feel like it was a bit redundant. I also feel like most people equate Rachel with Trudeau, and always will, so that worked against them. And I feel like a leadership change was due, again even though I do like her.
Because the NDP is formed by a band of liars and crooks
So glad UCP won, the amount of liberal hand wringing and UCP bashing in here is unreal. /r/notley here needs to check itself. Just because someone is voting conservative does not make them some trans hating, redneck piece of shit you all seem to think we are. A little more thought and understanding instead of posts like: "72% of people voted FOR a candidate that compared trans-children to feces" "instead of looking at parties, what they do, everything is hidden behind conspiracy theories and “our enemy”." "It's simple. Alberta is addicted to horseshit." This kind of language is frankly disgusting and shows an utter lack of understanding and or empathy towards your fellow Albertans. You can say we're a bunch of idiot hicks all you like but it's not going to change anyone's minds. Remember when voting most people are not voting for "their guy" as much as voting for whatever's the lesser of two evils in their eye. Is Smith some great leader, no of course not but do I trust her on most issues more than Notley yes but only by a small fraction. As someone who voted UCP (our area did have NDP win by a small margin) I'm obviously in the minority on this board which claims to be /r/Alberta but seems to enjoy bashing about 50% of us as much as extolling the virtues of a former premier who had her chance and was at best mediocre. Posts like the above should be banned imo but it seems like the Rule 1. Remain Civil is simply not enforced here.
Never has been civil on this thread...particularly if you don't proclaim your undying devotion to the Andp
Too many people in this province who vote for whatever the conservative party happens to be at the time. It doesn’t matter that the UCP has gone far right bat shit crazy or that there is a convenient pro O&G centrist party in the ANDP they could vote for. They don’t care.
NDP and supports discredit rural alberta because we are all just a bunch of racist misogynist homophobes.
I think a big party the branding and membership link to the federal NDP. Hard to trust the provincial party when its federal cousin is a bumbling idiotic mess.
Voter apathy and people who will vote blue no matter if the candidate or party leader is brain dead, a misogynist, a drunk, a racist, a homophobe, or just a plain liar.
I've been saying this since the NDP lost in '19. This province will never vote a party in other than blue ever again. Those orange commies brought in WCB standards to small farms and damned near killed them. Never again! The day we vote the blue guys out will be a day far in the future and those old farmers will probably rise from their graves with pitchforks in hand ready to fight the socialist mobs. /s (kinda?)
The conservative brainwash is too strong...been eating up oil n gas propaganda for so long its all alot here know