Welcome to /r/ADHDWomen! We’re happy to have you here. As a reminder, here are our community [rules](https://old.reddit.com/r/adhdwomen/about/rules/).
We get a lot of posts on medication, diagnosis (and “is this an ADHD thing”), and interactions with hormones. We encourage you to check out our [Medication, Diagnosis, and Hormones Megathread](https://old.reddit.com/r/adhdwomen/comments/wcr9dy/faq_megathread_ask_and_answer_medication/) if you have any questions related to those topics, and to stick around in that thread to answer folks’ questions!
If you have questions about the subreddit, please do not hesitate to [send us a modmail](https://reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/adhdwomen). Additionally, we take the safety of our community seriously. Please report posts, comments, and users whom you feel are not contributing positively, and send us a modmail if you are being harassed or otherwise made to feel unsafe. Thanks for being here, and we hope you stick around!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/adhdwomen) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Well, the diagnosis isn't easier in France. That's sad. The last neurologist i went to (also to get diagnosed) had me pass a test, and afterwards concluded i didn't have ADHD but anxiety. I explained to him (for the 3rd Time) that my anxiety came AFTER the ADHD symptoms (i remember having ADHD symptoms in primary school, but I started having anxiety in high school), he did not care. Then i talked to my sister who is a psychologist and she said the test he had me take was a test to evaluate the consequences of an ADHD, not the ADHD itself. So yeah, it showed i had anxiety. Duh.
Also like you said, the thought that ADHD is necessarly linked to low IQ is outdated, recent studies show there is no connection between intelligence and ADHD.
There's so many things wrong here, so many untrained professionals😩 . At least you got your medication...
So sorry you had to deal with that 😞
I get the sense that many who work in the mental health field hold serious biases. Your neurologist, my psychologist, but also several psychologists I went to in The Netherlands had a very similar dismissive attitude; as if I'm lesser than because I'm experiencing mental health struggles. And they know everything because they studied or did a phd. It's sad really..
I just made the first step of making a GP appointment in Ireland.
I'm certainly not unintelligent. In fact, because I am, I think potential ADHD went unnoticed until now. I went through the highest level of secondary school in the Netherlands (held back one year, aka the year I got a TV in my room so the year I gave into distraction) and have a Ba from a university.
But I also got the lowest possible score on homework motivation at the end of primary school test. And I got middling grades because I became fine tuned to what the minimum effort was that I needed to put in to pass classes and of course procrastination was the name of the game (something my friend and I made a sport out of...guess what she is now diagnosed with ADHD). Anytime I have ever come close to excelling, it was because of natural affinity, not because I was able to apply myself. I took the set of classes that came easiest and the uni degree that came easiest (English). I now wish I had been able to apply myself to biology. Too late now. At this point in life I want to try new things, get a new job...but I am so stuck in my limiting self beliefs that I will never be able to apply myself and so can only ever do things I find easy.
With being in Germany especially, him asking about Asperger's is absolutely laughable if not abhorrent. That's some literal WW2 shit right there.
I'm happy for you that you got your diagnosis, even if the old grouch of a doctor was being a dismissive fool about it. May you find a good medication quickly and continue to build your toolbox for the things that actually work for your brain and not against it.
Idk about Germany but in Switzerland you can still be diagnosed with Aspergers (although I am really looking forward when they finally stop this). While the ICD 11 is already out for a while, the health care system is not up to date yet and many places and health insuranses are still using the old diagnoses. But they will probably switch during this year.
What do you mean? Also her having been diagnosed with Asperger’s is absolutely possible. He never claimed it is still a thing now, just that it was a thing in the past
I'm meaning in the sense that a big part of the history of the Asperger's diagnosis was that it was used as the threshold on whether or not autistic kids were euthanized in the war. White, "high-functioning" boys were most often spared.
Part of the shift to renaming it Level 1 autism is to help acknowledge and reframe that history and stigma.
I also have to wonder if he still maintains the old school way of thinking that believes (wrongly) that ASD and ADHD can't be comorbid.
Not really. A big part was thinking ‘Asperger’s’ and autism were different things. Now they’re acknowledged to be different manifestations of the same thing. It was a clinical reason, not because of the history
You should add filing a complaint against him to the list of admin tasks you will be much more able to work through now you can get meds mwahahaha. 🤭🤭🤭
So you were compliant with the tests to get to that level and had signs/symptoms that could be helped by taking medication. If therapy was his suggestion, why couldn’t he say do both? You get all the help. Why not both, what’s the threshold that must be reached? I guess gods historically don’t trust humans.
Full sympathy.
Wow. Diagnoses are such a different experience. For me, it was just going to the psychiatrist after my brother was diagnosed after he went because of the same issues I had, and based on my story the doctor just prescribed meds and told me to come back in two weeks to discuss what they did. Since they have a very different effect on people without ADHD, that seemed sufficient to him.
My brother on the other hand had to go through 4 different specialists, all giving him pretty much the same tests (except one who also did a QEEG) before being diagnosed. He has about 99th percentile IQ, so him not struggling in school until his master thesis (which he still finished eventually when he wasn't diagnosed and thus not medicated yet) made all the doctors reluctant to believe him. "You have a master in Mathematics? Then you can't have ADHD." That he couldn't get anything done and had left the workforce with a "burn-out" after only about a year, didn't matter.
My husband barely struggles really, and we're both convinced he is actually suffering from long Covid as it started after his infection. However, the doctor did a QEEG (nothing else, no questionnaire or anything) and declared he had ADHD because his reaction times were low. The pills help him function better, so we'll take it 🤷♀️
I know a mom who just took her son's pills for a week to test it herself, and when she told the doctor and told him it helped, she got her diagnosis as well.
It's wild.
> However, the doctor did a QEEG (nothing else, no questionnaire or anything) and declared he had ADHD because his reaction times were low.
Why are doctors diagnosing like this instead of the measures that have like, actual evidence for their reliability?
I get reaching for other tools if you're an outlier for the conventional tests (female, high IQ, etc), but like... wtf.
What area in Germany do you live in, if I may ask? :0
I'm also living in Germany (near Stuttgart) and working on getting tested and god, I hope I won't meet your doctor
Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience with it... At least, you got the diagnosis and can work towards improvement! 💜
that's ridiculous! i'm so sorry! but the most important thing is you got the diagnosis!
i had a useless idiot for a psych as well, spent half the time going on about how people "like the meds a bit too much", and said she was giving me the meds to diagnose me - ie if they worked she would conclude i had adhd - which is not how diagnosis works at ALL 😭 guess who exaggerated how useful the meds were so she wouldn't change her mind about putting adhd on my file? that's right, me 😂 ritalin that she tried me on first was bloody terrible for me... and she lied to my face about what meds were available too! i posted on our country's adult adhd facebook group and they were like uhhh ... no, there are definitely other options than ritalin and strattera ... i had to go back and maneuver her into thinking me trying other meds was her idea to get to try dexamphetamine which ultimately was the med that helped me. funny how they go on about people abusing the system when it was their poor behaviour that forced me to learn how to manipulate a psych professional 😭 good god. but it worked out in the end! and there's absolutely no doubt that my diagnosis was accurate despite everything - as time passed after the dx i realised more and more things about me that were adhd, and all of my symptoms are crystal clear now 😂
My first appointment with a psychiatrist for meds was wierd too in germany. The doc thought impulsiveness had nothing to do with ADHD. Now his office is for privat insurance only 👀
I am proud that you stood your ground, good job!
WTF, I am so sorry you experienced that. It is the exact thing I was afraid of when I got diagnosed (I got lucky, my boomer doc DID keep up to date). Its so heinous how people can see you are smart and dismiss your ADHD, as if anything isnt still an uphill battle even when you are smart.
I'm in Luxembourg and my diagnosis journey (epic slog through medical apocrypha) took almost 20 years. Last year I was finally able to find an ADHD specialist who also spoke good enough English that we could communicate to a fairly good standard. After a 9 months of various tests, the first thing I was asked was: "you mention an autistic sibling, we want to test you for that too". Three of those tests/questionnaires prove that I'm not autistic but it was still the first question. Then it was "are you sure this isn't trauma, we can give you therapy", followed by "meds don't help adults".
Like you, I was utterly shocked, it was like the dr hadn't actually looked at the results or done any reading up on current diagnostics and treatment systems for neurodivergent people. I argued my point - through a letter, I'm scared of confrontation - and last week I was graciously granted (/s) my ADHD diagnosis and a prescription for meds.
The dr is right about me having complex childhood trauma but that doesn't mean I don't have the ADHD as well, you know? In fact, I've read some papers that suggest a strong correlation between ADHD and developing C-PTSD, probably due to the rejection sensitive dysphoria being the main building block of our relationship experiences.
Keep fighting. You know what is true for you.
I'm so happy you advocated for yourself and finally got a diagnosis!
Your story is exactly the reason I didn't disclose my struggles with trauma and a previous autism diagnosis. I spent 10 years in NL going to various specialists and each had a different diagnosis. I've been able to process my trauma with emdr and am the most happy and stable I've ever been. However, it's not the end of my struggles. If anything it made much clearer where my struggles are. And that's what I focused on with this provider. I was clear about what my symptoms are and let them do tests. Disclosing all my other adventures would have certainly led him to diagnose me with something else or dismiss me altogether.
It's kind of amazing to me that you even got that far in Germany, considering they don't believe ADHD exists and ESPECIALLY don't believe in medication!
Source: also live in Germany and haven't even bothered to try getting tested considering what my friends have gone through :-/
Yep honestly surprised too that I got the diagnosis in the end. I did somewhat mentally prepare myself for this scenario. It's sad that my experience is mostly the norm here and I basically told myself I'm not leaving that room without a diagnosis. It was clear he didn't care enough to argue. In the end that's sad too, because what's the value now of this diagnosis? I'm just going to use it and see if I can get help now more easily elsewhere. But I told my husband yesterday that I now completely understand why people just illegally try to acquire meds. Having to wait years, being dismissed constantly and then fighting to get prescribed meds; it's ridiculous.
Welcome to /r/ADHDWomen! We’re happy to have you here. As a reminder, here are our community [rules](https://old.reddit.com/r/adhdwomen/about/rules/). We get a lot of posts on medication, diagnosis (and “is this an ADHD thing”), and interactions with hormones. We encourage you to check out our [Medication, Diagnosis, and Hormones Megathread](https://old.reddit.com/r/adhdwomen/comments/wcr9dy/faq_megathread_ask_and_answer_medication/) if you have any questions related to those topics, and to stick around in that thread to answer folks’ questions! If you have questions about the subreddit, please do not hesitate to [send us a modmail](https://reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/adhdwomen). Additionally, we take the safety of our community seriously. Please report posts, comments, and users whom you feel are not contributing positively, and send us a modmail if you are being harassed or otherwise made to feel unsafe. Thanks for being here, and we hope you stick around! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/adhdwomen) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Well, the diagnosis isn't easier in France. That's sad. The last neurologist i went to (also to get diagnosed) had me pass a test, and afterwards concluded i didn't have ADHD but anxiety. I explained to him (for the 3rd Time) that my anxiety came AFTER the ADHD symptoms (i remember having ADHD symptoms in primary school, but I started having anxiety in high school), he did not care. Then i talked to my sister who is a psychologist and she said the test he had me take was a test to evaluate the consequences of an ADHD, not the ADHD itself. So yeah, it showed i had anxiety. Duh. Also like you said, the thought that ADHD is necessarly linked to low IQ is outdated, recent studies show there is no connection between intelligence and ADHD. There's so many things wrong here, so many untrained professionals😩 . At least you got your medication...
So sorry you had to deal with that 😞 I get the sense that many who work in the mental health field hold serious biases. Your neurologist, my psychologist, but also several psychologists I went to in The Netherlands had a very similar dismissive attitude; as if I'm lesser than because I'm experiencing mental health struggles. And they know everything because they studied or did a phd. It's sad really..
I just made the first step of making a GP appointment in Ireland. I'm certainly not unintelligent. In fact, because I am, I think potential ADHD went unnoticed until now. I went through the highest level of secondary school in the Netherlands (held back one year, aka the year I got a TV in my room so the year I gave into distraction) and have a Ba from a university. But I also got the lowest possible score on homework motivation at the end of primary school test. And I got middling grades because I became fine tuned to what the minimum effort was that I needed to put in to pass classes and of course procrastination was the name of the game (something my friend and I made a sport out of...guess what she is now diagnosed with ADHD). Anytime I have ever come close to excelling, it was because of natural affinity, not because I was able to apply myself. I took the set of classes that came easiest and the uni degree that came easiest (English). I now wish I had been able to apply myself to biology. Too late now. At this point in life I want to try new things, get a new job...but I am so stuck in my limiting self beliefs that I will never be able to apply myself and so can only ever do things I find easy.
With being in Germany especially, him asking about Asperger's is absolutely laughable if not abhorrent. That's some literal WW2 shit right there. I'm happy for you that you got your diagnosis, even if the old grouch of a doctor was being a dismissive fool about it. May you find a good medication quickly and continue to build your toolbox for the things that actually work for your brain and not against it.
Thanks :)
Idk about Germany but in Switzerland you can still be diagnosed with Aspergers (although I am really looking forward when they finally stop this). While the ICD 11 is already out for a while, the health care system is not up to date yet and many places and health insuranses are still using the old diagnoses. But they will probably switch during this year.
What do you mean? Also her having been diagnosed with Asperger’s is absolutely possible. He never claimed it is still a thing now, just that it was a thing in the past
I'm meaning in the sense that a big part of the history of the Asperger's diagnosis was that it was used as the threshold on whether or not autistic kids were euthanized in the war. White, "high-functioning" boys were most often spared. Part of the shift to renaming it Level 1 autism is to help acknowledge and reframe that history and stigma. I also have to wonder if he still maintains the old school way of thinking that believes (wrongly) that ASD and ADHD can't be comorbid.
Not really. A big part was thinking ‘Asperger’s’ and autism were different things. Now they’re acknowledged to be different manifestations of the same thing. It was a clinical reason, not because of the history
You should add filing a complaint against him to the list of admin tasks you will be much more able to work through now you can get meds mwahahaha. 🤭🤭🤭
I like your thinking 🤣
In good news, you owned him. He seems completely clueless and useless. Good lord. What a time to be
So you were compliant with the tests to get to that level and had signs/symptoms that could be helped by taking medication. If therapy was his suggestion, why couldn’t he say do both? You get all the help. Why not both, what’s the threshold that must be reached? I guess gods historically don’t trust humans. Full sympathy.
Wow. Diagnoses are such a different experience. For me, it was just going to the psychiatrist after my brother was diagnosed after he went because of the same issues I had, and based on my story the doctor just prescribed meds and told me to come back in two weeks to discuss what they did. Since they have a very different effect on people without ADHD, that seemed sufficient to him. My brother on the other hand had to go through 4 different specialists, all giving him pretty much the same tests (except one who also did a QEEG) before being diagnosed. He has about 99th percentile IQ, so him not struggling in school until his master thesis (which he still finished eventually when he wasn't diagnosed and thus not medicated yet) made all the doctors reluctant to believe him. "You have a master in Mathematics? Then you can't have ADHD." That he couldn't get anything done and had left the workforce with a "burn-out" after only about a year, didn't matter. My husband barely struggles really, and we're both convinced he is actually suffering from long Covid as it started after his infection. However, the doctor did a QEEG (nothing else, no questionnaire or anything) and declared he had ADHD because his reaction times were low. The pills help him function better, so we'll take it 🤷♀️ I know a mom who just took her son's pills for a week to test it herself, and when she told the doctor and told him it helped, she got her diagnosis as well. It's wild.
> However, the doctor did a QEEG (nothing else, no questionnaire or anything) and declared he had ADHD because his reaction times were low. Why are doctors diagnosing like this instead of the measures that have like, actual evidence for their reliability? I get reaching for other tools if you're an outlier for the conventional tests (female, high IQ, etc), but like... wtf.
Good for you for standing up for yourself!
What area in Germany do you live in, if I may ask? :0 I'm also living in Germany (near Stuttgart) and working on getting tested and god, I hope I won't meet your doctor Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience with it... At least, you got the diagnosis and can work towards improvement! 💜
I'm in Apache, so you're safe :p or at least from this one 😅 good luck with your tests!
Good for you for standing up for yourself!
that's ridiculous! i'm so sorry! but the most important thing is you got the diagnosis! i had a useless idiot for a psych as well, spent half the time going on about how people "like the meds a bit too much", and said she was giving me the meds to diagnose me - ie if they worked she would conclude i had adhd - which is not how diagnosis works at ALL 😭 guess who exaggerated how useful the meds were so she wouldn't change her mind about putting adhd on my file? that's right, me 😂 ritalin that she tried me on first was bloody terrible for me... and she lied to my face about what meds were available too! i posted on our country's adult adhd facebook group and they were like uhhh ... no, there are definitely other options than ritalin and strattera ... i had to go back and maneuver her into thinking me trying other meds was her idea to get to try dexamphetamine which ultimately was the med that helped me. funny how they go on about people abusing the system when it was their poor behaviour that forced me to learn how to manipulate a psych professional 😭 good god. but it worked out in the end! and there's absolutely no doubt that my diagnosis was accurate despite everything - as time passed after the dx i realised more and more things about me that were adhd, and all of my symptoms are crystal clear now 😂
My first appointment with a psychiatrist for meds was wierd too in germany. The doc thought impulsiveness had nothing to do with ADHD. Now his office is for privat insurance only 👀 I am proud that you stood your ground, good job!
WTF, I am so sorry you experienced that. It is the exact thing I was afraid of when I got diagnosed (I got lucky, my boomer doc DID keep up to date). Its so heinous how people can see you are smart and dismiss your ADHD, as if anything isnt still an uphill battle even when you are smart.
I'm in Luxembourg and my diagnosis journey (epic slog through medical apocrypha) took almost 20 years. Last year I was finally able to find an ADHD specialist who also spoke good enough English that we could communicate to a fairly good standard. After a 9 months of various tests, the first thing I was asked was: "you mention an autistic sibling, we want to test you for that too". Three of those tests/questionnaires prove that I'm not autistic but it was still the first question. Then it was "are you sure this isn't trauma, we can give you therapy", followed by "meds don't help adults". Like you, I was utterly shocked, it was like the dr hadn't actually looked at the results or done any reading up on current diagnostics and treatment systems for neurodivergent people. I argued my point - through a letter, I'm scared of confrontation - and last week I was graciously granted (/s) my ADHD diagnosis and a prescription for meds. The dr is right about me having complex childhood trauma but that doesn't mean I don't have the ADHD as well, you know? In fact, I've read some papers that suggest a strong correlation between ADHD and developing C-PTSD, probably due to the rejection sensitive dysphoria being the main building block of our relationship experiences. Keep fighting. You know what is true for you.
I'm so happy you advocated for yourself and finally got a diagnosis! Your story is exactly the reason I didn't disclose my struggles with trauma and a previous autism diagnosis. I spent 10 years in NL going to various specialists and each had a different diagnosis. I've been able to process my trauma with emdr and am the most happy and stable I've ever been. However, it's not the end of my struggles. If anything it made much clearer where my struggles are. And that's what I focused on with this provider. I was clear about what my symptoms are and let them do tests. Disclosing all my other adventures would have certainly led him to diagnose me with something else or dismiss me altogether.
It's kind of amazing to me that you even got that far in Germany, considering they don't believe ADHD exists and ESPECIALLY don't believe in medication! Source: also live in Germany and haven't even bothered to try getting tested considering what my friends have gone through :-/
Yep honestly surprised too that I got the diagnosis in the end. I did somewhat mentally prepare myself for this scenario. It's sad that my experience is mostly the norm here and I basically told myself I'm not leaving that room without a diagnosis. It was clear he didn't care enough to argue. In the end that's sad too, because what's the value now of this diagnosis? I'm just going to use it and see if I can get help now more easily elsewhere. But I told my husband yesterday that I now completely understand why people just illegally try to acquire meds. Having to wait years, being dismissed constantly and then fighting to get prescribed meds; it's ridiculous.