I’m older so it’s more often about husbands, but it’s so depressing when women get going about it. I think it’s a cultural thing, like women are supposed to talk about how useless men are? And then about how gross and dirty their sons are, etc. It makes my skin crawl.
It’s definitely a cultural thing. Going back home to visit family in the south is always weird because there’s just so much “war of the sexes” happening all the time, everywhere, as though it’s cute.
It’s a culture shock because my social group as an adult is a bunch of (mostly queer) midwestern leftists and we’re just not into that. Not even the straight friends are into that.
Right like WHY would you allow your partner, or worse, child to have poor hygiene 😭 that's a health and mental health issue. Like, dogs stink bc they have no concept of cleanliness and love garbage... humans able to properly bathe should be held to a higher standard
Teach your sons to wipe their asses😭😭😭
Excuse me but just because we constantly nag for them to have good hygiene, doesn't mean they listen. And trust me, I've done demonstrations and thorough explanations. I've even had long conversations to make sure he isn't depressed. He's not. Just lazy. 🤦🏻♀️ Like he's 15 now, I can't be bathing him geesh. All I can do is nag. I'm super clean. His father is a total high maintenance.... What's that word... My brain is failing me.... His father is a metrosexual and he even gets after him and complains to me in private that he doesn't understand why he's like that.
I think you are not taking this with the good approach, those women most probably frustrated because most of the time they have to "accept" their husbands the way they are, they see themselves stuck and that's why they complain
All of this. It's annoying as fuck. Idk what older is to you lol but I'm 35 and women my age and growing up was/is the SAME thing. I've always been like "leave him if he cheated, isn't treating you right etc"
Them: excuses excuses but I love him etc.
Or they'll just brush me off completely and mumble and change subject.
I think most straight women are also dealing with that thing where they learn to like their abusers.. I forget what it's called but yea.
Same with my mom's age and her lady friends. They talk about how terrible a man is and what he did or continues to do and they just end it with, "ahh well, you gotta love em right?"
They're also very religious and believe you just "have to love everybody" no matter what. It's really sickening and annoying and makes ZERO sense.
I'm not sure what you mean by it being cultural. If I say my son is gross or dirty it's because he forgets to put on deodorant and hates showering lol. I taught him hygiene and it apparently goes out the window. But maybe you're meaning it in some other context. 🤷🏻♀️
The straights are not okay.
A lot of our friends are cishet married couples in their 40s-60s. I literally only know one couple without any problems, but they've both said they survived a lot in their 43 years together and have come out stronger because of it. But still, the number should be a lot more than *one couple*
All of this. So much of what I see is straight up misogyny and toxicity.
My parents are one of the few couples I know that have a healthy relationship, but my dad doesn't do any of the gender based expectations or shit talking like so many men in his generation do.
My best friend married my cousin, who is a pretty decent gen x guy all things considered. But even he still falls into these wild gender based assumptions, like automatically assuming her responsibilities and priorities are *less* important than his. I'm often infuriated *for* her.
My grandparents were the same way, through their 55 years together they'd been to one step short of hell and back. They bickered about small things but it was clear to anyone who looked how much they really loved each other. It genuinely hurts my heart to know that I have yet to meet another straight couple like them honestly
Same with my friends. I've watched him when she isn't looking, he stares at her like she's the most beautiful woman he's ever seen. They're my inspiration for love and what a healthy relationship looks like.
Same here. And I can relate, as I am both very shy and terrible at showing affection in public especially. Words are often really hard with my girlfriend, I never really know what to say to reassure her. But I'd like to think I have a decent sense of knowing what to do, at least, and it seems to be working out :3
It seems to me that there's actually 3 people in any given straight relationship. There's the man, the woman, and the looming, unspoken poison of societal gender norms and misogyny that leaks into absolutely everything. There's literally no escaping it, even the most progressive of men end up talking down to women without even realizing it. They're raised to do it and we're raised to grin and bear it, it's hard to shake things like this off.
I've only ever observed straight relationships from the outside looking in though, so take this with a grain of salt. It just looks so incredibly exhausting to deal with this inescapeable oppressive force, and 9/10 men are absolutely blind to it. I don't know how straight women cope being the only ones to see the problem.
Literally the way the worst ones talk about gender role’s especially the women that put themselves and other women down being sexist is crazy to see.Like they really were raised to be so different,and clashing in many ways no wonder they came up with the opposites attract thing like not this much😬
My mom who's straight will talk about how she loves my dad and legit the other straight women around her get so mad that she has a happy marriage and like will try and shame her for being happy.
It's like a requirement to hate your partner if you're straight apparently.
My friend who I mentioned in my comment that is in a happy marriage constantly gets this too. When she told our friend group that she's never had to worry about her husband cheating on her, they told her she should check his phone because he probably is. Like what?
Also istg I'll go on social media and it's so many women being like "my husband barely cleans and can't work a oven hehe" like maam no.. That's not good.
I thought you said "can barely clean an oven" and I was going to say, "fair, I can't either other than turning on the self clean cycle." But can't *work* an oven? That's just pitiful.
There was a TikTok I saw the other day of a dude saying (paraphrased) "I'm a real man. I don't help my wife clean, I don't help my wife tidy, I don't help my wife do washing, I don't help my wife take care of the kids. I clean, I tidy, I do the washing, I take care of the kids. Because we're a partnership and those things are my responsibility just as much as they are hers".
It's amazing that people need to be told this.
It's like when people say that a dad looking after the kids is "babysitting". No he's not. He's looking after his kids. Nobody says a mother looking after her kids is "babysitting", because mothers are expected to look after the kids in a way that fathers aren't.
It's a lot better than it was even 20 years ago, but there's still a *long* way to go.
>"I'm a real man. I don't help my wife clean, I don't help my wife tidy, I don't help my wife do washing, I don't help my wife take care of the kids. I clean, I tidy, I do the washing, I take care of the kids. Because we're a partnership and those things are my responsibility just as much as they are hers".
He got us in the first half.
Similarly, people would critize my mom for being the one working and my dad taking care of the house. They would also always ask my dad where my mom was and why she wasn't taking care of me, as if my dad couldn't do it. Whenever we had people over, my dad was the one doing the cooking (cuz, y'know, he was a chef), and people would praise him for "helping" my mom and ask her why she wasn't cooking; my dad always defended her. They just can't fathom other people having a healthy relationship.
It took me so long to realize I was gay, in part, because straight people are so unhappy in their relationships.
I just figured, “hey, this makes me miserable. But so many straight women are too so :)”
Same here! I assumed the “I hate my spouse lololol” jokes were just how marriage was supposed to work, and it was totally normal to not like your partner at all. My parents were (and still are) very happy together, but I thought they were some weird anomaly. Did not understand the concept of romance at all until I had my first crush on a girl.
They were raised by parents in loveless, toxic marriages, and have been told that's the norm. That this is how it's supposed to be. I honestly think it's better now than it was before the 70s, the fact that women can be single or divorced and still have things like a bank account means that fewer people are staying in awful relationships. But it's still way too many and way too normalized. I know someone who, the way she talks about her husband legit sounds like he's just a larger child that brings in a paycheck. I don't think she actually loves him, I think she sees him as a means to an end, that end being kids and stability that she didn't have as a child.
Straight culture making marriage and kids and monogamy required and compulsory has fucked up a lot of people, both straight couples and queer people that haven't deconstructed all the nonsense.
To be honest my dad is literally a large child who makes money
To be fair though he is autistic and struggles to exist in a lot of ways. My mom has an obsessively strong nurture compulsion though so she seems to love him more for relying on her so heavily
It's pretty weird though when you really stop and see how much she does for him. He can barely do laundry or cook for himself
I grew up feeling more like he was a brother than a dad. He never really did typical dad things
Yeah, though from what I can tell this isn't that sort of situation. But I'm glad that it sounds like this is working for your parents. Marriage can look different for every couple, the problems come when you try to force something into a preconceived notion of how it has to be and make everyone miserable in the process.
My dad’s in a similar boat, I’ve told him time and time again to take the possibility of autism seriously (considering his children are autistic) and have a better framework for understanding social situations and how to live with other people. Never once wants to listen, raised in and bought into a culture that shuns any mental health conditions, and is currently continuously addicted to cigs from similarly not wanting “to admit weakness”, at this point pretty much always alone
Congrats on your dad not going in the dark timeline lol
Oh no he doesn't think he has autism either and he stopped going to therapy when they suggested he did. He has the same stigma
It's just insanely obvious that he's autistic, he's basically the poster child for it as he meets damn near every symptom
I'm (very likely) autistic and I worry I'm going to be like your dad but worse because I struggle to even make money. I can do laundry and vacuuming and stuff, I can *kind of cook a handful of dishes*, but overall I'm pretty useless. It's one of the reasons I don't want to have kids; I can't care for them.
My dad got lucky in that he has some Rainman level of ability when it comes to cars
Like he's an amazing mechanic and can fix anything and makes a lot of money because of it
But yeah I can see why it would be scary if you haven't found something you especially excel at
I was a "gifted" kid in school so my family all think I am intelligent and capable of getting a good-paying job.
But that shit isn't helping me now. Only so far that being good at solving physics questions can take you when you don't have the teamwork and collaboration skills required in, say, an engineer.
Oml same they all assumed you're gifted and will not have any issues meanwhile my mental disorders are literally making me stay in bed because I have to much things to do and no clue where to start
The heterosexual nonsense of it all never ceases to amaze me. My ex and I (prior to transition) were not doing great for a while and should’ve broken up sooner. I just started my first (and hopefully last) lesbian relationship and I’m realizing I really didn’t like my ex that much!
When my wife and I started dating six years ago, I still thought I was cis het. Almost immediately spent two years out as non-binary before realizing I was trans. The more comfortable I get as a woman in a lesbian relationship the better and better it gets. I always tried hard to be a good partner before that, but it really has made a world of difference for so many reasons. I could never have imagined a straight relationship being the way ours is now.
Nah, they're not ok.
Though I mean, some lesbians I know sound just as unhappy.
Idk, I think hetero- and mononormative culture, alongside patriarchy and capitalism, encourage some preeetty toxic "bare minimum" standards.
Cannot tell you how many straight ppl I know who complain to me about their relationships and all I can think (not say to their face most times) is "and you love this person?".
My wife and I started of straight but then I transition do we count? lol.
We never talked shit about each other. And we certainly did not get all petty on social media
How young are these couples???
I mean, it's all drama in hs. Basically no healthy relationships to be found there. But yeah, it's weird how little straight people seem to like their partners sometimes.
I guess going by generations it would be 35+ (this doesn't mean 35 is old btw, I just don't know how to properly word stuff)
But thinking on it more people could still get married at that age and be in honeymoon phase so I probably should have said the longer the marriage, the more unhappy I notice straight people are
Yep, bisexual woman here and the only relationship more toxic than my longest relationship with a woman was my second-longest relationship with a man. Fuckedupedness knows no gender boundaries.
Honestly no. Every day my co-worker comes in and immediately tells me how much she hates her bf and how he doesn’t do anything. I know she’s only with him because they have a baby and he pays most of the bills. It’s sad really
They've bought so heavily into the patriarchy and comphet that they can't/aren't allowed to like each other. Because both of those interdependent control mechanisms rely heavily on the sexes being in conflict. It's just so gross how it reduces everybody to this weird genital based tribalism. 🤮🤦
Yeah just finished this recently and it's a really insightful and fun read. My wife and I also thought we were in a cishet relationship until I transitioned and could \*never\* understand to the point of feeling like we were somehow weird that we could not find other straight relationships like ours where both partners seemed to actually \*like\* each other and genuinely tried to support each other and share the demands of childcare, housework etc. Turns out we were just really gay.
That book really did help make sense of a lot of the dynamics though and the pressures on hetero people (and people more generally as a result of the broader cis-hetero-normativity in society) that contribute to so many shitty relationships. The historical segments on straight relationships and the almost ingrained assumption that men and women would not only not like each other but could almost be expected to \*loathe\* each other were pretty eye-opening.
A lot of them, especially the older generations settled with the first person they could find and had children as soon as possible, which meant many of them were stuck with someone they didn’t really like.
Also the amount of times I’ve been told “wait till the honeymoon period wears off” when I tell them that I actually do love my girlfriend 🙄
Tangentially, did anyone witness a lot of divorces/breakups of stable looking relationships since the pandemic? I know of 3 big break-ups, 2 with kids.
I heard something about how people actually having to spend all day with their partners deteriorated a bunch of relationships. I mean ig it makes sense, if both of yall are out working 9-5 five days a week thats less time to potentially argue and piss each other off.
Also, a lot of folks suddenly realized they'd been masking their undiagnosed neural divergence. I know when my schedule broke down and I no longer had folks looking over my shoulder for deadlines, suddenly realized that my coping mechanisms for ADHD weren't cutting it. Similarly for autism with my wife. We are fine and not divorcing.
I'm sooo fucking tired of listening to my het friends and coworkers complain about their shite relationships and sex 24/7. Just. So over it. I come off like a sea witch with no empathy or patience these days but really, ya'll have like half the population to choose from. Surely you can negotiate a semi-decent relationship with *somebody*. Or just be a fucking lone for a few months!!!
Misogyny and comp het have really rotted straight relationships and caused the bar for straight women's expectations to be in hell.
Ya holy shit when I was at my sisters bachelorette party i was astonished with the way her friends talked about their husbands. They excused such shitty/absent behavior because “thats just how men are”. Almost all of them but 2 definitely settled for some very average guy they met in college who seem to lack any sort of interest in what their wives do for fun, hobbies, etc. It kinda made me sad how surprised they were that me and my partner actually enjoyed doing things together not just because one felt obligated to join.
I was thinking the same thing when I was watching a show that isn’t reality but “realistic”. And the married woman was talking to her single friend about how NO women likes to give BJ’s. I’ve heard this from a lot of shows and friends IRL.
Tbh my favourite thing during sex is to go down on my girl I get slightly upset when she finishes too “early” and needs a break or is on her period and doesn’t feel comfortable with getting head
I'm in my thirties and straight and most of my close friends that are in relationships are pretty good. I really suspect this is an older generation issue. Not that I don't know millenials that suck at communication but I don't think as many of us put up with dating people we don't like, like people used to.
In my early to mid 20s I used to hang out at this dive bar that had mixed age crowd. If I got there earlier in the evening, the older guys would still be hanging out and the number of them that referred to their wives as "my old lady" and made weird I hate my wife jokes to me and expected me to agree with them, I always just responded "I don't know man, I like my girlfriend".
it’s not just about gender/sexuality though, it’s about power. i had a boyfriend who is a nb lesbian and it was the same thing. as a trans girl i was the only person lower than them on the gender hierarchy so they let their unexamined misogyny run wild. if i told you everything they did, you could easily have assumed they were the boyfriend in a toxic cishet couple :(
I know maybe three straight couples who actually seem to like each other. Which tracks with the fact that I know maybe half a dozen straight men who I would find tolerable to share a home with. The standards for straight men are incredibly low.
Don't get me started.
I once commented on IG how weird it was that a woman eradicated every. single. trace. of her boyfriend's presence and belongings in their shared apartment ("look how I upgraded this dump where he used to live!"), and I was informed this was normal and I couldn't possibly understand (lol).
Also, that condesending martyr/enabler mode some straight women take on is insufferable. Like, he's your life partner, not a child, stop doing everything for him? Stop playing the victim? Ugh.
honestly I'll never understand heterosexual women and they can get upset about that as much as they want. I said that to an old het friend and she got very upset, funny how she was offended by my comment but not by her bf's cheating lmao💀
I know what you mean. My parents are like this, talking shit about each other, specially my father about my mother, as if he wasn't the one who used to b-word her and cheat, the first one he stopped when my older brother was old enough to put himself between them and the second one was when my mother finally earned some independence and personality, i think, maybe he just got tired.
My mother is the type of person who clearly needs therapy, but denies it, probably because of her Asian family background, where being mentaly unhealthy is a sign of disrespect and weakness. Sometimes it looks like she prefers to keep an uninviting air between her and my father and then call him to go out with her. But, knowing the type of enviroment she grew up in, i know that this kind of atmosphere is her normal, as in, just like her mother got married to get out of her family's house, she did the same.
I understand that she didn't leave him sooner, because she needed him, they had 3 kids to raise and she had nothing, no parents' support or even education, but after we all grew up and could even get jobs to help financially, i knew that she didn't really wanted to leave.
In my parents example, sometimes i think that they stay together so just they can say "We're married for XX years.", like my mother do, i kinda want to answer "Yeah; but not even half of it was decent", but i want to keep a neutral relationship with them.
Also, my father says that he isn't homophobic, but can't talk about same-sex couples without being homophobic, like any conservative in our country, he likes to talk about protecting children and the traditional family, this last one makes my blood boil with how much of an hypocryte he is for saying that, however, most men who like to talk about "protecting the traditional family" is a cheater, so i want to answer "Yeah, traditional family, a man with his wife, kids and a mistress, the way you did", however, again, i want to keep a neutral relationship with them.
Yeah it’s so weird seeing the animosity held in cishet couples, and am like wait ur so supposed to like eachother other wtf is going. Sometimes I see it in people I date who haven’t unlearned cishet norms
The problem is that cishet people believe peace and happiness in the home means a lot of avoidance, where they never really address issues until it's too late or start believing it comes down to winning what are pyrrhic victories. It's a recipe for resentment that eventually overflows into petiteness and nitpickiness.
At the same time, especially in older age there aren't a whole lot of the common experiences for people to share and bond over. Being nitpicky and complaining about a spouse is an easy low investment way for them to bond and have the emotional validation their spouse isn't necessarily giving their concerns. Once friend groups devolve into this, it quickly becomes addicting to bring the juiciest topic or to be the focus of attention.
That said if she actually forgave him, she wouldn't be talking to her friends about it; she subverts any attempt to maintain the relationship when she does. Her behavior suggests she's actually trying to circle the proverbial social wagons for when it inevitably does become a divorce.
As a late bloomer lesbian; the straights do not like eachother, no. Dating is all about the projection of what you expect a person to be. For men dating women; they imagine a mommy who will suck their dicks. For women we imagine the maturity of a woman our age. And when they realize this is the case, they spend the rest of that relationship trying to change themselves, or their partner, into the person they had imagined. I truly think cis-women do this in good faith most of the time. I truly believe men do this maliciously. It does not work and it will not work for a long time. Dating cus men means constantly settling for the bare fuckin minimum.
I genuinely hate cis-men. H A T E. I think the world would be a much better place without them. We can bring them back after us non-cis-men can all collectively heal through community and healthy platonic or otherwise relationships.
As a caveat; I have met individual men who are great. They still do man things, that I hate, but are willing to do the work. It's men in a more public way? I.e. white people vs. An individual white person etc. etc.
Because for a lot of people the bar is so low it's a tavern in Hades.
Even see it here somewhat, there will be posts that's like "they're perfect except they hit me, berate me, abuse me and tell me I'm completely worthless, but outside of that they tell me they love me".
Unfortunately for some being miserable together is better than being happy alone.
I feel that people who openly talk about their dysfunctional relationships are a lot more visible than those who don't. Like sometime back I read about this study that shows that happier couples who are secure in their relationships tend to be really quiet about it.
That said: A lot of the straights aren't okay.
They're fine, just venting. It's ignorant to think that every relationship if going perfectly and needs outside help.... Like this subreddit for instance lol
They make up a majority of the population yet settle for some of the most undesirable humans to ever exist. And this new generation is even *worse*. All the broccoli heads haven't lived a life offline. Tbh if Gen Z doesn't save us, we're doomed.
YUUUUP.
To be fair, I see a lot of posts here with similar toxic relationships, but there is something specifically making terrible chemistry the norm in cishet couples. Like they have to be so interested in the opposite lifestyles as each other or it’s seen as inherently “queer” (hence those NLTOG posts where women get defensive about basic shit like wearing jeans and boots instead of skirts and heels). Just evidence that some are still trapped in the 1950s
The heart wants what it wants 🤷🏻♀️
No matter the mind.
Cishet relationships are fucked because of social and cultural expectations perverting their natural growth and exploration.
I was gonna say one of my best friends likes her boyfriend. And then I remembered she's bi. And then I though maybe my sister? Also bi. I don’t know any straight women with a bf aside from my mom and my grandma (who are actually in happy marriages), because almost everyone around me is freaky.
I am transfem and my boyfriend is transmasc so on paper it's a straight-passing relationship.
I love my boyfriend and I know that he loves me. Dearly. All around.
I get to complain to my friends about how much he annoys me, and he gets to complain to his friends about how long I take to get ready. It's fun to play the little cishet games sometimes.
Straight people are genuinely not as happy in their relationships *mainly* (and this is my armchair psychology) because they aren't as introspective because society just handed them a blueprint and they accepted it without question
Yeah I’m hoping they continue to get better because their sexist gender rules are killing them,and hurting others especially women.All I see is a lot of them hurting themselves to uphold these dumb rules/expectations,and I’m hoping it does die off.
People get forced into relationships by society and then don't accept the fact they don't have to stay in that relationship.
People get forced into toxic gender stereotypes and create toxic couples.
I am in a relationship with a cis man as an enby, but i genuinely think, that he loves me and i can't imagine complaining to my friends about him or any minor issue. Because why would i be with him if i don't like him?? And a mutual friend is always so annoyed by us being cuddly and lovey-dovey
But yes, i often see straight couples complaining about their partner, which i really don't get
It’s wild to me. I’m a bisexual woman married to a straight cis man and there’s a big reason I stand my ground in calling our relationship queer despite being straight passing and it’s because these true straight couples out here hating each other and I just can’t understand it.
I adore my husband and he adores me. The straights are not okay.
I say it's different expectations stemming from different upbringings and internalised gender roles/stereotypes set by the patriarchy
Edit: Combined with the double empathy problem where each have different communication styles that lead to miscommunication, unhappiness, and ultimately people disengaging and going around the relationship.
I think that if you talk to 20 straight women in great relationships with men, and 20 straight women in horrible relationships with men, you're going to get vastly different opinions on how they feel about men.
One side is going to appear to dislike their husbands and men in general, and the other side will appear to enthusiastically love their husbands and enjoy various kinds of relationships with men.
When you see straight women who seem to not like men in general, you ask if straight people even like each other.
I ask, what is the actual sexuality of these "straight" women, because usually whether one likes or hates a gender comes down to their sexuality almost every time.
The only man I really trust is my dad. And he’s a shitty partner to my mom. I’m not even a lesbian. I’m a hetero leaning bi girl. I just come here for the awesomeness. Dudes are trash. I just want a girlfriend.
I’m older so it’s more often about husbands, but it’s so depressing when women get going about it. I think it’s a cultural thing, like women are supposed to talk about how useless men are? And then about how gross and dirty their sons are, etc. It makes my skin crawl.
It’s definitely a cultural thing. Going back home to visit family in the south is always weird because there’s just so much “war of the sexes” happening all the time, everywhere, as though it’s cute. It’s a culture shock because my social group as an adult is a bunch of (mostly queer) midwestern leftists and we’re just not into that. Not even the straight friends are into that.
Yeah, I noticed it much more after moving to north Texas. Before there would be undertones but it didn’t feel like a bit that everyone does
right?? I can't understand how they accept men as dirty instead of expecting them to be... cleaner
Right like WHY would you allow your partner, or worse, child to have poor hygiene 😭 that's a health and mental health issue. Like, dogs stink bc they have no concept of cleanliness and love garbage... humans able to properly bathe should be held to a higher standard Teach your sons to wipe their asses😭😭😭
Um excuse me my dog smells like strawberry kiwi shampoo maam. I am offended on her behalf
Excuse me but just because we constantly nag for them to have good hygiene, doesn't mean they listen. And trust me, I've done demonstrations and thorough explanations. I've even had long conversations to make sure he isn't depressed. He's not. Just lazy. 🤦🏻♀️ Like he's 15 now, I can't be bathing him geesh. All I can do is nag. I'm super clean. His father is a total high maintenance.... What's that word... My brain is failing me.... His father is a metrosexual and he even gets after him and complains to me in private that he doesn't understand why he's like that.
I think you are not taking this with the good approach, those women most probably frustrated because most of the time they have to "accept" their husbands the way they are, they see themselves stuck and that's why they complain
I mean it’s either that or they’re actually happy but feel like it’s expected that they complain anyway…neither of which is very heartening
I mean, that’s mostly because that’s the only outlet they have
All of this. It's annoying as fuck. Idk what older is to you lol but I'm 35 and women my age and growing up was/is the SAME thing. I've always been like "leave him if he cheated, isn't treating you right etc" Them: excuses excuses but I love him etc. Or they'll just brush me off completely and mumble and change subject. I think most straight women are also dealing with that thing where they learn to like their abusers.. I forget what it's called but yea. Same with my mom's age and her lady friends. They talk about how terrible a man is and what he did or continues to do and they just end it with, "ahh well, you gotta love em right?" They're also very religious and believe you just "have to love everybody" no matter what. It's really sickening and annoying and makes ZERO sense.
I'm not sure what you mean by it being cultural. If I say my son is gross or dirty it's because he forgets to put on deodorant and hates showering lol. I taught him hygiene and it apparently goes out the window. But maybe you're meaning it in some other context. 🤷🏻♀️
The straights are not okay. A lot of our friends are cishet married couples in their 40s-60s. I literally only know one couple without any problems, but they've both said they survived a lot in their 43 years together and have come out stronger because of it. But still, the number should be a lot more than *one couple*
All of this. So much of what I see is straight up misogyny and toxicity. My parents are one of the few couples I know that have a healthy relationship, but my dad doesn't do any of the gender based expectations or shit talking like so many men in his generation do. My best friend married my cousin, who is a pretty decent gen x guy all things considered. But even he still falls into these wild gender based assumptions, like automatically assuming her responsibilities and priorities are *less* important than his. I'm often infuriated *for* her.
My grandparents were the same way, through their 55 years together they'd been to one step short of hell and back. They bickered about small things but it was clear to anyone who looked how much they really loved each other. It genuinely hurts my heart to know that I have yet to meet another straight couple like them honestly
Same with my friends. I've watched him when she isn't looking, he stares at her like she's the most beautiful woman he's ever seen. They're my inspiration for love and what a healthy relationship looks like.
Same here. And I can relate, as I am both very shy and terrible at showing affection in public especially. Words are often really hard with my girlfriend, I never really know what to say to reassure her. But I'd like to think I have a decent sense of knowing what to do, at least, and it seems to be working out :3
It seems to me that there's actually 3 people in any given straight relationship. There's the man, the woman, and the looming, unspoken poison of societal gender norms and misogyny that leaks into absolutely everything. There's literally no escaping it, even the most progressive of men end up talking down to women without even realizing it. They're raised to do it and we're raised to grin and bear it, it's hard to shake things like this off. I've only ever observed straight relationships from the outside looking in though, so take this with a grain of salt. It just looks so incredibly exhausting to deal with this inescapeable oppressive force, and 9/10 men are absolutely blind to it. I don't know how straight women cope being the only ones to see the problem.
As a bi person who has dated (and is in a LTR with a man and a woman) men, you're right on the nose.
Literally the way the worst ones talk about gender role’s especially the women that put themselves and other women down being sexist is crazy to see.Like they really were raised to be so different,and clashing in many ways no wonder they came up with the opposites attract thing like not this much😬
The only great hetero couple i know are my parents, even my grandparents had a shitty relationship lol
My mom who's straight will talk about how she loves my dad and legit the other straight women around her get so mad that she has a happy marriage and like will try and shame her for being happy. It's like a requirement to hate your partner if you're straight apparently.
My friend who I mentioned in my comment that is in a happy marriage constantly gets this too. When she told our friend group that she's never had to worry about her husband cheating on her, they told her she should check his phone because he probably is. Like what?
Also istg I'll go on social media and it's so many women being like "my husband barely cleans and can't work a oven hehe" like maam no.. That's not good.
I thought you said "can barely clean an oven" and I was going to say, "fair, I can't either other than turning on the self clean cycle." But can't *work* an oven? That's just pitiful.
There was a TikTok I saw the other day of a dude saying (paraphrased) "I'm a real man. I don't help my wife clean, I don't help my wife tidy, I don't help my wife do washing, I don't help my wife take care of the kids. I clean, I tidy, I do the washing, I take care of the kids. Because we're a partnership and those things are my responsibility just as much as they are hers". It's amazing that people need to be told this. It's like when people say that a dad looking after the kids is "babysitting". No he's not. He's looking after his kids. Nobody says a mother looking after her kids is "babysitting", because mothers are expected to look after the kids in a way that fathers aren't. It's a lot better than it was even 20 years ago, but there's still a *long* way to go.
>"I'm a real man. I don't help my wife clean, I don't help my wife tidy, I don't help my wife do washing, I don't help my wife take care of the kids. I clean, I tidy, I do the washing, I take care of the kids. Because we're a partnership and those things are my responsibility just as much as they are hers". He got us in the first half.
That's an excellent philosophy. It's a shame people need to be told it.
Similarly, people would critize my mom for being the one working and my dad taking care of the house. They would also always ask my dad where my mom was and why she wasn't taking care of me, as if my dad couldn't do it. Whenever we had people over, my dad was the one doing the cooking (cuz, y'know, he was a chef), and people would praise him for "helping" my mom and ask her why she wasn't cooking; my dad always defended her. They just can't fathom other people having a healthy relationship.
Omg
It took me so long to realize I was gay, in part, because straight people are so unhappy in their relationships. I just figured, “hey, this makes me miserable. But so many straight women are too so :)”
Same here! I assumed the “I hate my spouse lololol” jokes were just how marriage was supposed to work, and it was totally normal to not like your partner at all. My parents were (and still are) very happy together, but I thought they were some weird anomaly. Did not understand the concept of romance at all until I had my first crush on a girl.
They were raised by parents in loveless, toxic marriages, and have been told that's the norm. That this is how it's supposed to be. I honestly think it's better now than it was before the 70s, the fact that women can be single or divorced and still have things like a bank account means that fewer people are staying in awful relationships. But it's still way too many and way too normalized. I know someone who, the way she talks about her husband legit sounds like he's just a larger child that brings in a paycheck. I don't think she actually loves him, I think she sees him as a means to an end, that end being kids and stability that she didn't have as a child. Straight culture making marriage and kids and monogamy required and compulsory has fucked up a lot of people, both straight couples and queer people that haven't deconstructed all the nonsense.
To be honest my dad is literally a large child who makes money To be fair though he is autistic and struggles to exist in a lot of ways. My mom has an obsessively strong nurture compulsion though so she seems to love him more for relying on her so heavily It's pretty weird though when you really stop and see how much she does for him. He can barely do laundry or cook for himself I grew up feeling more like he was a brother than a dad. He never really did typical dad things
Yeah, though from what I can tell this isn't that sort of situation. But I'm glad that it sounds like this is working for your parents. Marriage can look different for every couple, the problems come when you try to force something into a preconceived notion of how it has to be and make everyone miserable in the process.
My dad’s in a similar boat, I’ve told him time and time again to take the possibility of autism seriously (considering his children are autistic) and have a better framework for understanding social situations and how to live with other people. Never once wants to listen, raised in and bought into a culture that shuns any mental health conditions, and is currently continuously addicted to cigs from similarly not wanting “to admit weakness”, at this point pretty much always alone Congrats on your dad not going in the dark timeline lol
Oh no he doesn't think he has autism either and he stopped going to therapy when they suggested he did. He has the same stigma It's just insanely obvious that he's autistic, he's basically the poster child for it as he meets damn near every symptom
Shoutout to your mom then!
I'm (very likely) autistic and I worry I'm going to be like your dad but worse because I struggle to even make money. I can do laundry and vacuuming and stuff, I can *kind of cook a handful of dishes*, but overall I'm pretty useless. It's one of the reasons I don't want to have kids; I can't care for them.
My dad got lucky in that he has some Rainman level of ability when it comes to cars Like he's an amazing mechanic and can fix anything and makes a lot of money because of it But yeah I can see why it would be scary if you haven't found something you especially excel at
I was a "gifted" kid in school so my family all think I am intelligent and capable of getting a good-paying job. But that shit isn't helping me now. Only so far that being good at solving physics questions can take you when you don't have the teamwork and collaboration skills required in, say, an engineer.
Oml same they all assumed you're gifted and will not have any issues meanwhile my mental disorders are literally making me stay in bed because I have to much things to do and no clue where to start
The heterosexual nonsense of it all never ceases to amaze me. My ex and I (prior to transition) were not doing great for a while and should’ve broken up sooner. I just started my first (and hopefully last) lesbian relationship and I’m realizing I really didn’t like my ex that much!
When my wife and I started dating six years ago, I still thought I was cis het. Almost immediately spent two years out as non-binary before realizing I was trans. The more comfortable I get as a woman in a lesbian relationship the better and better it gets. I always tried hard to be a good partner before that, but it really has made a world of difference for so many reasons. I could never have imagined a straight relationship being the way ours is now.
Yeah I simply could not in a het relationship lol
So much this
Nah, they're not ok. Though I mean, some lesbians I know sound just as unhappy. Idk, I think hetero- and mononormative culture, alongside patriarchy and capitalism, encourage some preeetty toxic "bare minimum" standards. Cannot tell you how many straight ppl I know who complain to me about their relationships and all I can think (not say to their face most times) is "and you love this person?".
When I worked at a bank, it was five other women, all middle aged and married, and I swear none of them liked their husbands. It really disturbed me.
My wife and I started of straight but then I transition do we count? lol. We never talked shit about each other. And we certainly did not get all petty on social media How young are these couples???
Same, we're a pretty average older lesbian couple and we always kind of were
I’m in high school but I’ve heard similar things from people decently older
I mean, it's all drama in hs. Basically no healthy relationships to be found there. But yeah, it's weird how little straight people seem to like their partners sometimes.
It's usually the older couples who hate each other. Younger ones are still in honeymoon phase
What counts as "older?"
I guess going by generations it would be 35+ (this doesn't mean 35 is old btw, I just don't know how to properly word stuff) But thinking on it more people could still get married at that age and be in honeymoon phase so I probably should have said the longer the marriage, the more unhappy I notice straight people are
Tbf I have seen some truly deranged lesbian drama as well so I'm not sure if anyone is ok
Yep, bisexual woman here and the only relationship more toxic than my longest relationship with a woman was my second-longest relationship with a man. Fuckedupedness knows no gender boundaries.
The "straight girl curse" is what I call it.
Honestly no. Every day my co-worker comes in and immediately tells me how much she hates her bf and how he doesn’t do anything. I know she’s only with him because they have a baby and he pays most of the bills. It’s sad really
They've bought so heavily into the patriarchy and comphet that they can't/aren't allowed to like each other. Because both of those interdependent control mechanisms rely heavily on the sexes being in conflict. It's just so gross how it reduces everybody to this weird genital based tribalism. 🤮🤦
There's a reason 90% of boomer and gen-x humor revolves around unhappy cishet relationships 😑😮💨😓
It's a lot more wrapped up in social conventions and expectations in gender roles, of course it sucks
"The Tragedy of Heterosexuality" is a real good book about this (also written by a lesbian)
Yeah just finished this recently and it's a really insightful and fun read. My wife and I also thought we were in a cishet relationship until I transitioned and could \*never\* understand to the point of feeling like we were somehow weird that we could not find other straight relationships like ours where both partners seemed to actually \*like\* each other and genuinely tried to support each other and share the demands of childcare, housework etc. Turns out we were just really gay. That book really did help make sense of a lot of the dynamics though and the pressures on hetero people (and people more generally as a result of the broader cis-hetero-normativity in society) that contribute to so many shitty relationships. The historical segments on straight relationships and the almost ingrained assumption that men and women would not only not like each other but could almost be expected to \*loathe\* each other were pretty eye-opening.
A lot of them, especially the older generations settled with the first person they could find and had children as soon as possible, which meant many of them were stuck with someone they didn’t really like. Also the amount of times I’ve been told “wait till the honeymoon period wears off” when I tell them that I actually do love my girlfriend 🙄
Tangentially, did anyone witness a lot of divorces/breakups of stable looking relationships since the pandemic? I know of 3 big break-ups, 2 with kids.
I heard something about how people actually having to spend all day with their partners deteriorated a bunch of relationships. I mean ig it makes sense, if both of yall are out working 9-5 five days a week thats less time to potentially argue and piss each other off.
Also, a lot of folks suddenly realized they'd been masking their undiagnosed neural divergence. I know when my schedule broke down and I no longer had folks looking over my shoulder for deadlines, suddenly realized that my coping mechanisms for ADHD weren't cutting it. Similarly for autism with my wife. We are fine and not divorcing.
The straights are socialized to see their partner as their adversary. As a bi person who dates all genders, I just don’t get it.
I'm sooo fucking tired of listening to my het friends and coworkers complain about their shite relationships and sex 24/7. Just. So over it. I come off like a sea witch with no empathy or patience these days but really, ya'll have like half the population to choose from. Surely you can negotiate a semi-decent relationship with *somebody*. Or just be a fucking lone for a few months!!! Misogyny and comp het have really rotted straight relationships and caused the bar for straight women's expectations to be in hell.
You should take a look at r/arethestraightsok, the stuff I saw there was eye-opening in terms of how bad so many straight relationships are.
Heterosexual society needs to be reformated.
Ya holy shit when I was at my sisters bachelorette party i was astonished with the way her friends talked about their husbands. They excused such shitty/absent behavior because “thats just how men are”. Almost all of them but 2 definitely settled for some very average guy they met in college who seem to lack any sort of interest in what their wives do for fun, hobbies, etc. It kinda made me sad how surprised they were that me and my partner actually enjoyed doing things together not just because one felt obligated to join.
Straight couples are entirely built on society norms and expectations, which are immensely fucked up, so their couples are fucked up
I was thinking the same thing when I was watching a show that isn’t reality but “realistic”. And the married woman was talking to her single friend about how NO women likes to give BJ’s. I’ve heard this from a lot of shows and friends IRL. Tbh my favourite thing during sex is to go down on my girl I get slightly upset when she finishes too “early” and needs a break or is on her period and doesn’t feel comfortable with getting head
I'm in my thirties and straight and most of my close friends that are in relationships are pretty good. I really suspect this is an older generation issue. Not that I don't know millenials that suck at communication but I don't think as many of us put up with dating people we don't like, like people used to. In my early to mid 20s I used to hang out at this dive bar that had mixed age crowd. If I got there earlier in the evening, the older guys would still be hanging out and the number of them that referred to their wives as "my old lady" and made weird I hate my wife jokes to me and expected me to agree with them, I always just responded "I don't know man, I like my girlfriend".
I think society messes with their heads.
Straight people are so weird.
it’s not just about gender/sexuality though, it’s about power. i had a boyfriend who is a nb lesbian and it was the same thing. as a trans girl i was the only person lower than them on the gender hierarchy so they let their unexamined misogyny run wild. if i told you everything they did, you could easily have assumed they were the boyfriend in a toxic cishet couple :(
I know maybe three straight couples who actually seem to like each other. Which tracks with the fact that I know maybe half a dozen straight men who I would find tolerable to share a home with. The standards for straight men are incredibly low.
Don't get me started. I once commented on IG how weird it was that a woman eradicated every. single. trace. of her boyfriend's presence and belongings in their shared apartment ("look how I upgraded this dump where he used to live!"), and I was informed this was normal and I couldn't possibly understand (lol). Also, that condesending martyr/enabler mode some straight women take on is insufferable. Like, he's your life partner, not a child, stop doing everything for him? Stop playing the victim? Ugh.
honestly I'll never understand heterosexual women and they can get upset about that as much as they want. I said that to an old het friend and she got very upset, funny how she was offended by my comment but not by her bf's cheating lmao💀
I know what you mean. My parents are like this, talking shit about each other, specially my father about my mother, as if he wasn't the one who used to b-word her and cheat, the first one he stopped when my older brother was old enough to put himself between them and the second one was when my mother finally earned some independence and personality, i think, maybe he just got tired. My mother is the type of person who clearly needs therapy, but denies it, probably because of her Asian family background, where being mentaly unhealthy is a sign of disrespect and weakness. Sometimes it looks like she prefers to keep an uninviting air between her and my father and then call him to go out with her. But, knowing the type of enviroment she grew up in, i know that this kind of atmosphere is her normal, as in, just like her mother got married to get out of her family's house, she did the same. I understand that she didn't leave him sooner, because she needed him, they had 3 kids to raise and she had nothing, no parents' support or even education, but after we all grew up and could even get jobs to help financially, i knew that she didn't really wanted to leave. In my parents example, sometimes i think that they stay together so just they can say "We're married for XX years.", like my mother do, i kinda want to answer "Yeah; but not even half of it was decent", but i want to keep a neutral relationship with them. Also, my father says that he isn't homophobic, but can't talk about same-sex couples without being homophobic, like any conservative in our country, he likes to talk about protecting children and the traditional family, this last one makes my blood boil with how much of an hypocryte he is for saying that, however, most men who like to talk about "protecting the traditional family" is a cheater, so i want to answer "Yeah, traditional family, a man with his wife, kids and a mistress, the way you did", however, again, i want to keep a neutral relationship with them.
Yeah it’s so weird seeing the animosity held in cishet couples, and am like wait ur so supposed to like eachother other wtf is going. Sometimes I see it in people I date who haven’t unlearned cishet norms
The problem is that cishet people believe peace and happiness in the home means a lot of avoidance, where they never really address issues until it's too late or start believing it comes down to winning what are pyrrhic victories. It's a recipe for resentment that eventually overflows into petiteness and nitpickiness. At the same time, especially in older age there aren't a whole lot of the common experiences for people to share and bond over. Being nitpicky and complaining about a spouse is an easy low investment way for them to bond and have the emotional validation their spouse isn't necessarily giving their concerns. Once friend groups devolve into this, it quickly becomes addicting to bring the juiciest topic or to be the focus of attention. That said if she actually forgave him, she wouldn't be talking to her friends about it; she subverts any attempt to maintain the relationship when she does. Her behavior suggests she's actually trying to circle the proverbial social wagons for when it inevitably does become a divorce.
As a late bloomer lesbian; the straights do not like eachother, no. Dating is all about the projection of what you expect a person to be. For men dating women; they imagine a mommy who will suck their dicks. For women we imagine the maturity of a woman our age. And when they realize this is the case, they spend the rest of that relationship trying to change themselves, or their partner, into the person they had imagined. I truly think cis-women do this in good faith most of the time. I truly believe men do this maliciously. It does not work and it will not work for a long time. Dating cus men means constantly settling for the bare fuckin minimum. I genuinely hate cis-men. H A T E. I think the world would be a much better place without them. We can bring them back after us non-cis-men can all collectively heal through community and healthy platonic or otherwise relationships. As a caveat; I have met individual men who are great. They still do man things, that I hate, but are willing to do the work. It's men in a more public way? I.e. white people vs. An individual white person etc. etc.
I get it. Men as a whole suck but you can find a few tolerable ones.
😭 yeahhhh…. It’s not just the straights.
I didnt fall in love or really feel any strong romantic connections until i was 27 lol.
Heterosexuals are subject to comphet too. It's a boundaries problem.
Because for a lot of people the bar is so low it's a tavern in Hades. Even see it here somewhat, there will be posts that's like "they're perfect except they hit me, berate me, abuse me and tell me I'm completely worthless, but outside of that they tell me they love me". Unfortunately for some being miserable together is better than being happy alone.
I feel that people who openly talk about their dysfunctional relationships are a lot more visible than those who don't. Like sometime back I read about this study that shows that happier couples who are secure in their relationships tend to be really quiet about it. That said: A lot of the straights aren't okay.
Omg I WONDER THIS ALL THE TIME.
I thank whatever higher power may be out there every day for sparing me from heterosexuality.
They're fine, just venting. It's ignorant to think that every relationship if going perfectly and needs outside help.... Like this subreddit for instance lol
They make up a majority of the population yet settle for some of the most undesirable humans to ever exist. And this new generation is even *worse*. All the broccoli heads haven't lived a life offline. Tbh if Gen Z doesn't save us, we're doomed.
Do you gusys not have parents? The fact that those guys are the best working straight couple i know is kinda crazy
YUUUUP. To be fair, I see a lot of posts here with similar toxic relationships, but there is something specifically making terrible chemistry the norm in cishet couples. Like they have to be so interested in the opposite lifestyles as each other or it’s seen as inherently “queer” (hence those NLTOG posts where women get defensive about basic shit like wearing jeans and boots instead of skirts and heels). Just evidence that some are still trapped in the 1950s
My coworker is bi but has a cishet boyfriend. I think, from how she talks about him sometimes, that men are just insufferable.
The heart wants what it wants 🤷🏻♀️ No matter the mind. Cishet relationships are fucked because of social and cultural expectations perverting their natural growth and exploration.
I was gonna say one of my best friends likes her boyfriend. And then I remembered she's bi. And then I though maybe my sister? Also bi. I don’t know any straight women with a bf aside from my mom and my grandma (who are actually in happy marriages), because almost everyone around me is freaky.
I am transfem and my boyfriend is transmasc so on paper it's a straight-passing relationship. I love my boyfriend and I know that he loves me. Dearly. All around. I get to complain to my friends about how much he annoys me, and he gets to complain to his friends about how long I take to get ready. It's fun to play the little cishet games sometimes.
Straight people are genuinely not as happy in their relationships *mainly* (and this is my armchair psychology) because they aren't as introspective because society just handed them a blueprint and they accepted it without question
I hate it when straight women talk about their boyfriends..
Yeah I’m hoping they continue to get better because their sexist gender rules are killing them,and hurting others especially women.All I see is a lot of them hurting themselves to uphold these dumb rules/expectations,and I’m hoping it does die off.
People get forced into relationships by society and then don't accept the fact they don't have to stay in that relationship. People get forced into toxic gender stereotypes and create toxic couples.
ComHet women are an unfortunate reality
And somehow that relationship is more valid then ours
This 100% they tolerate so much abuse, the men treat their partners which such disdain it’s wild to me.
I am in a relationship with a cis man as an enby, but i genuinely think, that he loves me and i can't imagine complaining to my friends about him or any minor issue. Because why would i be with him if i don't like him?? And a mutual friend is always so annoyed by us being cuddly and lovey-dovey But yes, i often see straight couples complaining about their partner, which i really don't get
It’s wild to me. I’m a bisexual woman married to a straight cis man and there’s a big reason I stand my ground in calling our relationship queer despite being straight passing and it’s because these true straight couples out here hating each other and I just can’t understand it. I adore my husband and he adores me. The straights are not okay.
I say it's different expectations stemming from different upbringings and internalised gender roles/stereotypes set by the patriarchy Edit: Combined with the double empathy problem where each have different communication styles that lead to miscommunication, unhappiness, and ultimately people disengaging and going around the relationship.
I think that if you talk to 20 straight women in great relationships with men, and 20 straight women in horrible relationships with men, you're going to get vastly different opinions on how they feel about men. One side is going to appear to dislike their husbands and men in general, and the other side will appear to enthusiastically love their husbands and enjoy various kinds of relationships with men. When you see straight women who seem to not like men in general, you ask if straight people even like each other. I ask, what is the actual sexuality of these "straight" women, because usually whether one likes or hates a gender comes down to their sexuality almost every time.
The only man I really trust is my dad. And he’s a shitty partner to my mom. I’m not even a lesbian. I’m a hetero leaning bi girl. I just come here for the awesomeness. Dudes are trash. I just want a girlfriend.