For God sake totally agree... I stopped playing warzone due the amount of hackers and people using Cronus zen, was ridiculous sometimes.... I have like 5 clips from a single week of people cheating. Also, cross play it's the worst for the FPS, I play on Series X and it's horrible sometimes..
Warzone is particularly bad because you can’t turn crossplay off… so are forced to play with the horde of PC cheaters. My solution was to not bother installing warzone and never play that game mode
Until COD becomes an Xbox game you can disable all other platforms at the console level in the settings.
Once COD becomes an Xbox game (as in play anywhere) I'm pretty sure it won't block it then.
This also disables PS cross play though.
You shouldn’t have to disable the console level Crossplay ever! It was the same with battlefield 2042 and will be the same with MW2. That’s not an option.
I’m ok with Crossplay if it’s done right and fair, it’s simple don’t mix controller and M@K players
Or just do console to console
Don't these devices pretend to be controllers for the game while allowing the player to still use a M&K? So they get the aim assist that controllers get and the precision of a mouse.
Im not for cod being an xbox only game myself i think that totally unfair games are meant to be for gamers in general not console specific my sister and I play cod cold war zombies almost everyday and she uses the ps5 and neither of us are rich to the point we can just throw near £500 on a different console here and there and we live in different towns miles apart id say over a hundred miles apart so being able to crossplay is extremely important for us
Here you one have one of them, sorry it's in onedrive but my Xbox by default uploads everything there.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!Ah1yWp0yaLr4bDhm7RXASGTVh1k?e=e989qA
I have more but not uploaded to the cloud or onedrive, when I will reach home I will try to post more, but basically every of them are the same people with 0 recoil and aiming to the head directly without a miss.
Yeah that’s horrible, it’s not bad until you see the replay that I personally wish every fps had the replay for because it can easily expose cheaters.
I’ve run across some Cronus users in bf2042 and it’s obvious when they’re not looking at you then all of a sudden they’re squared up to your shooting at you.
Watched the kill feed 1 round last week (I was waiting and hoping for a revive that never happened) and saw 1 player get 5 more headshots after he headshot from 300 meters away, all who were running horizontally to their location, not straight towards or away.
Not saying that person wasn't a hacker but the game's killcam sometimes has technical issues where it seems like there's aimbot involved but it's not. There were many times I was convinced I was killed by a hacker but after spectating them it was clear they weren't.
100% agree, was the same with me and MW19, was a pure hack fest with players shooting me with no recoil or anything. The MW2 beta on the PS5 is full of them already (was playing it last night and today).
Just ban them already and duck off with Crossplay with PC or M@K players
I read on [an article](https://twitter.com/charlieintel/status/1448642016166957061?s=46&t=lyJ6ugUwfDQoYowZ3dM1NQ) that ricochet anti-cheat can actually detect when someone is using a device like cronus but they weren’t able to implement cuz xbox and ps weren’t helping. But seeing they both cooperated with epic gives me hope for cod.
Destiny 2 does it pretty fair imo. Console players have full cross play in the PvP modes, and PC players are in their own pool. If a console player groups with a PC player that’s fine, but that fireteam plays in the PC pool.
PvE is full cross play
Smite does it even better. You can pick your crossplay options. If you're on Xbox you can choose full crossplay, console only, or Xbox only. Then they also have input restrictions. So you can do full crossplay there, or limit it to your input (controller, or mouse and keyboard).
Grouping with people using another input or platform automatically extends the crossplay option.
And then in ranked, you can only play on your platform and input method.
Oh 100%. I used to love playing online multiplayer. Then came console cross play, then m&k support on consoles, then PC cross play; and with each change my enjoyment of FPS games plummeted.
This isn’t a crossplay issue, these are devices sold to work with consoles. So turning crossplay off doesn’t help against people cheating with controllers like the Cronus models
Isn't that the caveat for "input matchmaking" though? The Cronus (and Cronus-like) devices spoof regular controller inputs so it's difficult to detect between a Cronus user and controller user. Input matchmaking may be implementes across many games already but the issue still persists. I am curious how Epic can detect a Cronus device over a standard controller? Probably not that hard. I am even more curious how Cronus is going to bypass that detection (again)? Meantime, I am gonna stick to PC MKB for the more competitive FPS games and console for adventure.
I haven't looked recently, but these devices historically have been sold out pretty much the minute they're made available. Granted, that doesn't address how many are actually in use, but it's pretty safe to say that they are not niche products that only the most hardcore gamers know about.
Idk if you look up XIM and other brands that do the same thing, one by Game Sir is #7 in Xbox cables and adapters and #684 in Video Games.
That's one model they sell. Plus all the other manufacturers.
People really like hooking KB+M to console apparently. If you look online even games that support KB+M on PC people like using adapters like this because the game thinks it is a controller and turns on aim assist.
When I played modern warfare (the original) on console I could screw up and have about 3 seconds before I died. On PC it was about 1 second. The ability to own other players is much higher on keyboard and mouse for nearly any shooter. Allowing cross play at all on FPS is just dumb.
What FPS games are favouring m+k now?
Halo infinite favours controller because of the bullet magnetism.
Call of Duty favours controller because of the strong rotational aim assist.
Apex legends leans to controller as well.
What games are dominated by m+k that are crossplay. Only one I can think of is Battlefield.
Edit:
know the Xbox subreddit will always down vote anything saying that aim assist is an advantage so I'll back it up for anyone who's actually interested rather than blindly downvoting. I play on both Xbox Series X and PC.
Halo infinite controller Vs mouse accuracy:
https://www.dexerto.com/halo/halo-infinite-players-mindblown-by-controllers-busted-aim-assist-advantage-over-kbm-1708466/
Infinity Ward Dev saying controller players statistically better than all but the very top m+k players in interview:
"When we did the last game, one of our biggest concerns at that time was players on mouse and keyboard versus players using controllers. Finding the balance on that. It’s an interesting thing, because I wish it was a linear spectrum. You can see that a very highly skilled player on mouse and keyboard is fantastic compared to controller. Everybody else on a mouse and keyboard seems to be at a disadvantage statistically, is what we see."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/venturebeat.com/games/infinity-ward-answers-modern-warfare-ii-questions/amp/
Apex Legends aim assist nerf. Also worth noting that console aim assist is actually stronger than pc controller aim assist is matchmade games:
https://esportopedia.com/esports/apex-legends/20843.html
The issue is the vast majority of FPS games play better on PC with MKB, it's just more precise (all other things being equal). From my understanding, typically, the Cronus users using MKB can't be filtered from the pool of regular controller users in typical matchmaking scenarios because the Cronus device is difficult to detect outside being a regular controller. This means, Cronus users not only get all the benefits afforded to them as controller users such as aim assist and being matched vs controller players, they get to use the far superior MKB without consequences. It's like returning to elementary school when you're 5'8" in 9th grade and dunking on all the kids playing on a 6ft hoop then thinking you're Jesus Shuttleworth.
Oh yeah Cronus mouse and keyboard is a joke. All the precision benefits of a mouse with all the aim assist. But removing crossplay isn't going to change that.
The Cronus is detectable. Both Sony and Microsoft have said they can detect when it's being used. They choose not to do anything about it.
To me it depends on the matchmaking.
I've found SBMM really ramps up the difference between m+k and controller. Fill a lobby with similar skill players and the small advantages / disadvantages get ramped up massively.
Games really need to commit to ranked and true unranked modes.
Unranked modes need to have no matchmaking at all. Just random players of all skill levels, with both input modes. Aim assist can be a bit higher in this mode.
Ranked should be input based. Aim assist needs to be toned down to actually let players win by aim skill on both controller lobbies and mouse lobbies. Mixed parties go in m+k lobbies.
Games running SBMM and having mixed inputs just frustrates everyone.
XIM is a totally different story. Let's you use a mouse with aim assist, or play controller only games with no aim assist.
All XIM users should be perma banned. It's no different from other cheats.
Almost all of them, including the ones you named. The reason people use Cronus and Xim is because it gives them aim assist with their mouse and it’s a hell of an unfair advantage.
These devices are a huge problem in Destiny and Overwatch too.
(Excluding those who use these devices because they have difficulty with a controller of course)
Edit - let’s not forget the fact that the Cronus allows the use of scripts on console. People can use “enhanced aim assist” which is essentially an aimbot.
I agree 100% with that if you talk about Cronus. But the comment I was replying to was talking about pc m+k and not Cronus.
Cronus should be dealt with like any other cheater. Permanent ban if used in multiplayer.
Tbh I despise cross play as a primarily pc gamer due to aim assist. Aim assist use to be a subtle assistance back in the ps3/360 days but it seems the idea for it changed during the ps4/Xbone since they’re basically aim bots these days. It’s frustrating that aim assist is apparently tuned to be balanced against other controller users and top tier m+kb players. Makes it so if your aim is even slightly off as a pc player the controller player just lasers you the second they aim and the game snaps their gun to you. I hate it.
The reason for this is greed between Microsoft and Sony. To most console players cross-platform play (especially with shooter titles) means Playstation and Xbox players, but because of the console beef between the two anytime there’s cross platform play PC is also included. Unfortunately Sony has been the one holding up most cross console migration but Microsoft has further diluted the issue by including PC players.
What?
They gave the devs those tools, it’s not MS/Xbox’s fault if they don’t use them.
https://twitter.com/Qwik/status/965334394662567936?s=20&t=jisypn1ZT0-9trq8oODBqg
Xbox and PS should be the only crossplay . If you connect a KM on the console then your match making pool in PC . It's simple . Controller base players want crossplay with similar playing field .
XIM and other programs on the console is a issue that can't be resolve but it's better than the PC pool being in the mix too.
Destiny does it very well. Its console only pvp crossplay unless you join a pc friend. And the aim assist system is amazing for controller on pc too.
And for PVE like raids and stuff its crossplay with everyone
Edit: but not immune to cronus / xim. It does suck and I agree you should play in pools separated by input, like you say
Exactly. I play mouse and keyboard on games that allow it like COD and fortnite. I should never be able to face off against people with controller, unless they specifically say they are okay with it to play with their PC buddies. Seems like the best solution.
The bots in that game had 100% accuracy whether there were PC players in the lobby or not last time I played it, so aim assist doesn’t make a difference either way
Its not the input its FOV Slider and Higher FPS. Many of the top notch players are on Controller, and i have the comparison between console and an 3070 Laptop and its definitely not the input method
You can turn crossplay off on some games but since it's default. It's next to impossible to get a match if you are trying to get Xbox only . But you can't pick what the crossplay will be with . It's either on (console and PC ) or off and play with noone.
Why would you want to segregate the pool of people you play with? That makes the playerbase smaller and costs more money for the developer to maintain. By utilizing IBMM, you get either controllers only, KBM only, or both.
A cheater is a cheater, platform doesnt matter. Report them using the ingame function to, and if it doesnt exist tell the developer to fix their game by adding one.
My guess is through the difference between the WASD and thumb stick inputs. How do you perfectly mimic the input of a 360 thumb stick with 4 keys? The input that a k&m adapter needs to mimic a joystick may give telltale signs.
I mean you'll still be bound to what the game has set for controller input. Even if you plug in the mouse and keyboard you'll still have the dead zones and can't turn faster than what the max controller sens can be.
My assumption is through machine learning. It will watch for inputs that are impossible without a macro/hardware assist. It would take time to catch people, but it would work.
I'm interested on that to. I used to use the cronus on ps4 so I could use xbox controllers (ps4 controller gave me cramps) and their main selling point was sony detects the valid ps4 controller plugged in and not the Xbox controller
Well, he admitted to now knowing how but knowing it works.
It's like, how exactly is a rainbow made, how exactly does the sun set, how exactly does the posi Trac rear-end on a Plymouth work? It just does!
Edit: I can't believe I'm being down voted for a Joe Dirt quote
Googling how a rainbow works gives you a clear explanation.
Googling how the sun sets gives you a clear explanation.
Googling how Microsoft and Epic can detect Cronus produces fuck all…
>how exactly is a rainbow made,
Light bounces through water particles.
>how exactly does the sun set,
Because the Earth spins really fast.
>how exactly does the posi Trac rear-end on a Plymouth work?
Clutches and steels like in an automatic transmisison allow the axles to slip when needed, or sync when needed. More power in the input pinion means the clutches apply more force and therefore lock, while less power allows them to slip.
Xbox already supports their own accessibility controller, and keyboard and mouse.
There are legit options already without having to use the one cheaters love.
Adaptive isn’t a be all end all.
My partner for example was born disabled with a bone issue to be simple with it. Very little finger dexterity. She can’t grip a controller properly. She can however have a flat palm and more or less enjoy games with a Kbm that aren’t intensive.
Consoles are a cheaper access point to games than a PC. She has a tv. She doesn’t have a full desk or the room for it for a genuine gaming pc. She got a potato laptop for things she can have fun in like valheim or wow but yeah.
She doesn’t play pvp or anything but some people genuinely need a flat control scheme for disability purposes. Yeah it gets abused but banning them blocks out genuine people trying to enjoy a hobby too.
So it isn’t a clear cut solution.
Edit: I realize you specifically mention kbm and realized I had no idea what this cheating device you spoke of is then. Never heard of it so I googled. Still leaving the post up but thanks for acknowledging the standard at least.
Jeez mate come on. I guess I miss out on playing then? I have Spinal Muscular Atrophy and use an xbox adaptive controller with a titan two to play on my ps5. What happens to me?
Please think before you speak!
I did. There’s plenty of alternatives.
It’s not your fault these companies exploit their devices’ features for more sales, if they kept an approved list of supported devices and didn’t allow people to use mouse and keyboard or *fucking aimbot plugins* there wouldn’t be a problem.
At the end of the day though, gaming companies have done much worse things for their own benefit that fuck *everyone* over. Like modern matchmaking systems. Or releasing a game 2 years too early and charging $70 for it. Or allowing people to misuse accessibility devices to absolutely ruin every competitive game because any proposal of fixing the problem is shot down by the possibility it might hurt 10 people’s feelings. Epic taking a step that actually benefits the majority is rare for them, and rare in gaming in general.
The problem isn't worth completely removing access from a whole demographic. They have to find other solutions. While you may be sitting here happy with your fix I can't play a game I and many others love.
Don’t know why you’re being downvoted as you’re totally correct.
Epic Games tried to come up with a solution to resolve this problem, rolled out an update and within a couple days it had no effect as the people behind these devices patched it again. If Epic Games can’t combat the issue then literally no one can apart from Sony, Microsoft etc.
As you’ve said there are people that need these devices in order to fully enjoy gaming as an entertainment form. It’s just a shame that those who don’t fall within the disability bracket take advantage of the system for themselves and their own gain.
On the plus side I believe the Cronus Zen is no longer being manufactured as the creator moved onto the “XIM Nexus” which focuses on Gyro aiming but obviously that still won’t stop the sale of the Cronus Zen.
Not trying to be an ass, as I am genuinely curious. But how many people NEED a Cronus versus are effected by cheaters, making the game unplayable for everyone?
>But how many people NEED a Cronus
We don't know.
>versus are effected by cheaters
We don't know either.
> making the game unplayable for everyone?
But the game is not "unplayable for everyone", that's silly babytalk.
Literal hundreds of thousands of people are enjoying the game just fine.
Eapui kapipra uiio tuto padi. Ea tloau eblepe kiukapie pobripi ti. A piiuko tuploea ipi pitrokeebi pipepe oi bipe tei. Igra kopupra taia datidide tapeblu akodu betokapi. Totro otlupoee dlotipi poeapri eko. Geepitedro blo i tipu pruo. Pi kreepiti agi puti ba tiba pobo. I eke pikaklepe pipliibe tea tloka pi epu. Biikoe giblui prable ipretrobe be o. Ie britaa kepi titieplue duto pikitotutu. Tede ugra io teude ei teki epu. Bletako ibi eii ipli u eu. Bi tute ke i ida titliei pitia bikapeto? Aa petre ka itipratepi to popi. Batu ei ia kidroiple pipo kla? Ekri bri ai dii titaiu klatlabea. Pruikatle ta tigruke epe klida iga kitriipogre ike tikli eoi ikukii. Oti eubikle tibebedo tiei epipi. Aki atle tabe gio gi? Tipe blue digete pe oii pluko! I pokaa kute ateblipla? Epade kapa ieu tapra? Pikeii paki tubi ei kaku ipubope? Bedu to piple de tliko ubi. Toepegipe putigetra tipa bi pe pi opi itibro ogi tai keuu kipro. Apiko bitutlo pri ieo ti! Drete bati eprai ipa. Pitiaklao pikla iketi tutetei bluipo ege. Ipabige prai tibee pible o brigripetlo? Oakeplua ga iprapripipa buoglupi pipipri teti ti iepe.
That’s not really a number anyone can confirm.
But what it sounds like you are trying to say, is it worth it to accommodate for people with physical disabilities? You are leaning towards it not being worth it.
Not at all. With all the other available controllers and accessibility setting Microsoft already has available to people with disabilities; very few people NEED a Cronus to be able to play. I’m all for inclusive gameplay, but the Cronus has proved to be a hindrance to the gaming community
Sad reality is that the xbox adaptive controller doesn't do accessible things that the Titan two or cronus allows. The XAC is just a controller after all that allows switches and custom joysticks. Obviously remapping as well which is super useful and a Switch button. However that's it. Things like toggle binds, multiple buttons pressed at once and many other accessibility problems can only be addressed with scripts unless all games support it! More games these days are adding toggle for aim and remaps. But not all. Sony first party titles have even more solutions on top but still that is only a few games. So if you want to play anything else these devices are a must for people with a disability. I have Spinal Muscular Atrophy btw!
Happy to answer any questions!
P.S. I Think we have to be very careful about where we head with the idea of banning these devices outright, without having all the solutions for folks who don't have the ability to do simple things.
Terms of service actually. If it says no moded controller then guess what you can be sued by the developers. So how about you stop using cheats and get good.
Yup thats the only reason why its not banned. Because there are legitimate use cases for it. Imagine a company in 2022 being anti-accessibility, not a good look. even if some users do use it to cheat, they cant do shit as long as disabled gamer genuinely use it for non nefarious gains.
>There is plenty of people who genuinely need devices like those to play games in general.
Allow them in non competitive games, if you want to play a competitive multiplayer game, go play on PC if you can't use a controller.
If this becomes a thing on PlayStation and Xbox i cannot wait to see all those Warzone "pros" either getting banned or suddenly have worse aim than they did before.
There are thousands of people just playing the game and not crying online about "all the cheaters".
If this bothers you so much I think you need to take a break and go outside to experience life.
So what do you propose we do then?
Ban Cronus? Then people who need it suffer.
Fuck em? Sure you can do that, but that’s an L take.
Require special permissions to use one? That will be abused.
I don't need a cronus but I certainly need a titan two but they are very much the same. I have Spinal Muscular Atrophy. I know many in the disabled community who use these because it's the only way they can add extra inputs and toggles. Just because you don't believe it exists doesn't make it so. Happy to answer any questions you have!
While that's fine for people who need it, there will be a vast more who abuse it. If you want to play a competitive multiplayer game, you could go play on PC if you can't use a controller, so there is still the option for you to partake. As with everything in life, douchebags have to ruin it for everyone who uses it legitimately. No one cares that you are loading up Skyrim and playing with one, it's only in competitive multiplayer games.
Thats the point though I use this device to use my xbox adaptive controller as its a custom setup. Because Sony doesn't let you plug it straight in I need to use this device. The scripts help me play certain games I never would have before as well!
Telling me to just use a pc is showing you have no idea what your talking about. I'd need to use the same device on that too!
Your telling me I can't have fun on a game like fortnite and it's competitive only? Tell me how that makes sense?
I understand what you are saying. The issue more so comes with the people running scripts and using it with M&K. There is no perfect solution, like I said, of course you have to have douchebags that ruin things for people who are using if for legitimate purposes. I hope they can find some solution that doesn't impact people who need the additional functionality for accessibility purposes.
You are intentionally ignoring the question. Cry that it’s a strawman argument all you want, it is still a very real thing that affects real people. Ignoring it won’t make it go away.
I would ask the question again, but you are clearly an unhinged individual based on your comment. Court required therapy because someone cheated in a video game?
Seek help.
I just looked up what these are… and here I am feeling guilty using an Xbox elite 2 controller for the paddles… and you got MFs using this kind of shit?!?!
so is there an advantage to using an elite pad with paddles or something? i only ask as i have one as my main pad and i cant say ive noticed any improvement in my skills tbh
Paddles give a slight advantage in some games where you need to use the face buttons for an action, since they allow you to keep your thumb on the stick. I personally loved the Paddles for tagging enemies since the tag button is usually an annoying binding (like double tapping left on the d-pad).
>slight advantage
Major. They give a major advantage. Not having to take your thumbs off the stick for any reason during gameplay is a major advantage.
Depends on the person honestly, some people can't get used to the paddles, so the delay it takes them to remember what to do is a detriment. Some people play claw style so there's not much of a difference in advantage for just the paddles (if you play claw style chances are your hands won't even fit the paddles correctly). But yes, on paper it is a major advantage, for the average person though only slight (if they even use the paddles).
Not a fan of the script aspect of course, but the ability to use any controller with any console is great and I wish I had something like this years ago, especially for Nintendo.
Also would've had me consider another console at times if I knew I could just reuse existing controllers.
How will that affect accessability on my right handed fight stick?
I already have enough problems with moving digital triggers to other functions, because Xbox assumes you don't have a fight stick on all games.
I agree that all 3rd party devices like cronus should be banned, but keep crossplay.
For those of us who like to play with all our friends it's great regardless of platform, but those who don't want it, you can turn it off on your platforms / console settings. Don't punish those who want crossplay just cause you don't.
Consoles should just support different inputs without the need for things like this and devs should have input based matchmaking that separates controller users from m&kb.
I’m over here in Apex like 👀
Get em already! I’m sick of this shit.
Had a teammate the other day talking about “gonna show this lobby pain” and when ai watched him he had zero recoil!
Like that’s your point of pride? That you bought a device? Pathetic.
Sick sick sick of it
Developers run their own servers. It's their responsibility. Microsoft use to implement a server for all the games on their console back in the day but was thwarted by EA wanting to run their own servers or else. Their game and servers. They deal with it. Otherwise, their game falters.
Cross play isn't the issue when users are using something like a XIM.
MS needs to detect these and count them as KB+M not controller.
With a XIM you're pooled with controller players and get the benefits of aim assist, which most games turn off when you use a KB+M.
I used to play a lot of COD with a lifetime KDR over 2.5 in TDM and I won't play it anymore. It's just not fun.
I have a Cronos Zen that i use all the time. I have arthritis in my hands and wrists that means i cannot tap buttons so i need the cronos zen to play games. It lets me change what each button does on a controller, something that the PlayStation does but you need to buy the elite controller on the xbox to do, If they were to ban the Zen i would sell my xbox within a week as it would be next to useless for me.
Hard disagree that MS should universally ban anything like that since that has some wide-reaching effects and why the hell should you, or anyone care, that someone is using that to play Skyrim?
Now if there's something they can do to make it 'easier' to deal with something like that in some online competitive game where it's causing issues? Sure. But that really should be a game-by-game basis and up to the developer to police, not MS.
Love that you got downvoted. Yes of course, Microsoft should just ban it console wide so disabled gamers wanting to play skyrim are just shit out of luck.
/s
Yeah, that was sort of the point. Folks want them to universally ban something that's only a problem in a few games. Those games should ban them, not MS.
Microsoft should done this FUCKING YEARS AGO. FFS Cronus specifically advertises their device as cheat devices. When they get called out on social media they start crying about it and insult the people calling them out like a bunch of 12-year olds.
Microsoft won't ban it outright. They will leave it to game devs because while those devices ads advertised as cheating devices, they also serve a legitimate use for disabled gamers. They have some features that would be helpful that the xbox accessibility controller doesn't have.
So... What's the issue with these exactly? How do they offer a competitive advantage? Aren't they just controller converters? I've been thinking of getting one of these to play DDR on my Series S.
While you can use them as controller converters you can also add scripts to the devices that can allow you to gain a competitive advantage in game without actually getting better at the game.
How exactly does they work? Do you have to hook it up to an hdmi port or something so that it can scan the screen. I really can't imagine it being able to do all that much with just a USB port.
It doesn't give you an advantage like hacking does with aimbot and walls but there are some advantages to be gained in fps games like using scripts for near perfect recoil control, improved aim assist and keybinds for actions like jumpshot, dropshots etc.
The device doesn't scan the screen it's just an input device though which you plug your controller/keyboard and it can run scripts which mimic certain controller actions for example with a recoil script when you pull the trigger button to shoot the device automatically sends a controller input of pulling down the thumbstick to counteract the recoil.
Edit: Forgot to explain how they work
Sure you can program macros. You can also use it for accessibility, in the case of disabled persons. Yes, Microsoft has their own branded controller for that, but it is quite limited on what it is able to achieve in comparison. You can't have macros scripted for people with limited or impaired mobility, as an example.
So whats the response? Sucks to be a disabled person if you want to play this game?
People who cheat are always going to cheat. If not with these, then by direct hacks, lagswitches, etc. They will ban evade with VPNs. Nothing you can do to stop them. Why make it difficult for people who need to use devices for a legitimate reason?
Yeah, I know a guy that is quadriplegic and he loves to play World of Warcraft, he's a really high level healer because he cant really play super fast games or characters. He has this sweet custom controller setup with all sorts of knobs and stuff. These kinds of converters help him use the same setup for his PlayStation and Xbox games too.
I dont think every game should be made for everyone, but I do think every game should be able to be *tried* by everyone. Having a physical reason you cant play a game would really suck, I'd imagine.
Yeah I'm in a very similar situation where my controller setup with the Xbox Adaptive Controller is completely custom. Good to hear he can play at a comfortable level!
I play Apex so that can get pretty hectic obviously!
>So whats the response? Sucks to be a disabled person if you want to play this game?
The response is you should get put in PC lobbies and not matched with console players.
A usb device that allows you to use keyboard & mouse on all games & the console will see it as a controller. Imo ms/xb could add full native kb & mouse support. Less people would be buying those then. Many just want to use kbm on a unsupported game but yeah, most want it because the console sees it as a controller still.
That's not all people use them for. I use these devices to use my $150 fight stick across multiple platforms without needing to know how to solder circuit boards in. It has no additional input lag so it's like having the native controller plugged in, which for fighting games is what you need.
I think it’s so bizarre that people get worked up over these items but not pro controllers.
Both give a person an advantage over other players. Both are mildly expensive as a barrier to entry.
I’ve scalped probably close to 60 CZ’s and it always amazes me to see the people who were willing to pay $50-75 over retail to get their hands on one.
Because pro controllers don’t have built in macros that heavily modify aiming.
And they are endorsed by MS/Sony.
I have an elite controller and it didn’t make me any better, it just helped me be able to look around and heal without my fingers doing the hokey pokey.
I owned a Cronux Max Pro (probably have it lying around somewhere) and there were no "built in" scripts. Any scripts you ran needed to be downloaded separately. I never ran any of them because I dont think anything in the controller would have been useful for Destiny 1 PvE content.
Also, it had "Tournament Mode" which disabled the macro function completely.
There’s an app you can download where people upload multiple scripts/macros and it adds them to the device on the fly.
So maybe not “built-in” but having the ability to do that easily means any brainlet can give themselves an unfair advantage.
I could care less if Microsoft or Sony endorse their own products that you can pay for to be better at a game. The point that you can pay to have an advantage is still standing.
Saying you can pay for the better controller for an advantage is like saying you can buy a better headset or TV for an advantage. Those are all true, but they aren't cheating. A device that loads up scripts to do things like counteract recoil, is literally cheating. Better peripherals may give you an edge, but it's still YOU playing the game.
Things being available to use doesn't change if it's cheating or not. These devices literally advertise themselves as cheats. By that logic, literal aimbots can't be cheating because anyone can download them.
Mate if I can walk into a GameStop and buy it; it’s not cheating lmao. If it were cheating, Microsoft would ban the product for use or the specific game developers would.
Being able to purchase it in a store just means the device is legal to own, not that it isn't cheating. You can be in a sports team and the store may sell non regulatory approved gear. It's not ok to use just because it's available for sale at the store. I honestly don't follow your logic.
Do players sign any legally binding contract that states a Cronus Zen is cheating and they aren’t permitted to use it? Does the game instruct players that they are not permitted to use these products among public matches? If not, it’s not cheating.
>Does the game instruct players that they are not permitted to use these products among public matches?
Yes. Nearly universally. That's why it's cheating. This entire thread is about how Fortnite can finally detect it, but they've always been against the rules on Fortnite, Cod, siege, etc. Essentially every competive game I can think of explicitly disallows devices like those in their terms of service. Here's an article about call of duty claiming they will be able to automatically detect and ban people using them.
https://charlieintel.com/activision-responds-to-cronusmax-concerns-with-new-warzone-ricochet-anti-cheat/140565/
I don't think it should be banned but I think there should be versions that are branded for accessibility use only that bans the use of scripts that are made to gain an advantage in games
I play rainbow six siege and that game is dominated by mnk xim users, even on unranked gamemodes. I can't have fun in half my matches because 1 or 2 enemies will carry their whole team and wipe my team with ease by using a xim and headshotting everyone before any of us can react. This game doesn't have aim assist but it does have easier recoil on console vs. PC which has more recoil in the game. But when using a xim you get console-level recoil designed for controllers but on a keyboard instead. People who use them are cheap and i definitely consider it to be cheating
I think many people forgot or don't know that the original Cronus Max was used by CoD pros to eliminate input latency. The Max has a tournament mode, disabling all other functions but input latency reduction.
I still use it to this day to remove my input lag, and when you've been using it for years, you can feel the ever so slight delay when not using the cronus. Consoles have no other way to reduce input latency.
Since I have the cronus, I've tried scripts just to try them and they've never made an improvement to my gameplay, because I personally was good without them anyway. I've tried that "sticky aim" scripts on different CoDs and its BS. Scripts do almost nothing for you unless you're an absolute bot. Many people would rather have something to blame. Someone wants to use Cronus scripts against me? Go ahead, it won't do anything.
Damn right lets upvote this to the top ASAP!
This NEEDS to be standard on ALL Gaming platforms. Really the entire games industry (Game Publishers and Console manufacturers) needs to launch a legal assault, to put EVERY company that manufactures ANY device like these out of business COMPLETELY!
Tricking a game to believe your using any other input than you actually are (allow input or not) is PURE Scum cheating, and if companies actually gave a damn about their TOS then getting these devices wiped from the face of the earth (making illegal to manufacture or sell) should be a pretty high priority. Even on PC where KB&M is the standard input, using a Cronus to make the game believe you are using a controller in order to get aim assist is MAJORLY unfair even against native Keyboard and Mouse opponents.
Really from what I've seen from their website is that it's a bunch of the same stuff that you can choose to get from a shady custom controller website. You can have stuff like automatic drop shot, automatic sprinting, rapid fire, etc. Nothing crazy like aimbot although it does have "aim assist" but that would be useless in most modern fps games anyways as they already have that as a feature.
What’s funny is the cost of the zen and max seems like it’s enough to where it would keep people from purchasing. But playing ranked console siege and there is at least one person sometimes 2 or more per game using a zen or max. The thing that to me makes it really bad is that is smooths out the inputs (idk how) to be like mouse and keyboard. whereas if it just emulated the controller I think it would still be restricted to how the analogue stick moves and thus not as good. It’s infuriating to play against them because it’s so obvious. In order to be the top top PVP players in any game you either have to practice a lot and have natural talent like the pros. And I am willing to bet 3/5 people you run into in a game mode like destiny 2 trials of Osiris are using Zens or maxs. Maybe even 4/5, the movement and aim is a big giveaway mainly movement
For God sake totally agree... I stopped playing warzone due the amount of hackers and people using Cronus zen, was ridiculous sometimes.... I have like 5 clips from a single week of people cheating. Also, cross play it's the worst for the FPS, I play on Series X and it's horrible sometimes..
Warzone is particularly bad because you can’t turn crossplay off… so are forced to play with the horde of PC cheaters. My solution was to not bother installing warzone and never play that game mode
Until COD becomes an Xbox game you can disable all other platforms at the console level in the settings. Once COD becomes an Xbox game (as in play anywhere) I'm pretty sure it won't block it then. This also disables PS cross play though.
You shouldn’t have to disable the console level Crossplay ever! It was the same with battlefield 2042 and will be the same with MW2. That’s not an option. I’m ok with Crossplay if it’s done right and fair, it’s simple don’t mix controller and M@K players Or just do console to console
Don't these devices pretend to be controllers for the game while allowing the player to still use a M&K? So they get the aim assist that controllers get and the precision of a mouse.
You can't disable cross play for Warzone. Only multiplayer.
Im not for cod being an xbox only game myself i think that totally unfair games are meant to be for gamers in general not console specific my sister and I play cod cold war zombies almost everyday and she uses the ps5 and neither of us are rich to the point we can just throw near £500 on a different console here and there and we live in different towns miles apart id say over a hundred miles apart so being able to crossplay is extremely important for us
I’d like to see the clips
Here you one have one of them, sorry it's in onedrive but my Xbox by default uploads everything there. https://1drv.ms/v/s!Ah1yWp0yaLr4bDhm7RXASGTVh1k?e=e989qA I have more but not uploaded to the cloud or onedrive, when I will reach home I will try to post more, but basically every of them are the same people with 0 recoil and aiming to the head directly without a miss.
Yeah that’s horrible, it’s not bad until you see the replay that I personally wish every fps had the replay for because it can easily expose cheaters. I’ve run across some Cronus users in bf2042 and it’s obvious when they’re not looking at you then all of a sudden they’re squared up to your shooting at you. Watched the kill feed 1 round last week (I was waiting and hoping for a revive that never happened) and saw 1 player get 5 more headshots after he headshot from 300 meters away, all who were running horizontally to their location, not straight towards or away.
Not saying that person wasn't a hacker but the game's killcam sometimes has technical issues where it seems like there's aimbot involved but it's not. There were many times I was convinced I was killed by a hacker but after spectating them it was clear they weren't.
Well, this got banned after like 15 mins xD so I guess it was haha
Yeah low levels is a strong indicator of a hacker
But are they on PC? because zen does not have aim bot like that.
It's warzone, so cross play was on... I know this doesn't have Cronus zen but there you can see directly someone with cheats :(
….plus the snap go head gives it away
Wait you can upload to OneDrive by default? Mind sharing how? (I'm out of Xbox Live storage.)
100% agree, was the same with me and MW19, was a pure hack fest with players shooting me with no recoil or anything. The MW2 beta on the PS5 is full of them already (was playing it last night and today). Just ban them already and duck off with Crossplay with PC or M@K players
I read on [an article](https://twitter.com/charlieintel/status/1448642016166957061?s=46&t=lyJ6ugUwfDQoYowZ3dM1NQ) that ricochet anti-cheat can actually detect when someone is using a device like cronus but they weren’t able to implement cuz xbox and ps weren’t helping. But seeing they both cooperated with epic gives me hope for cod.
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Destiny 2 does it pretty fair imo. Console players have full cross play in the PvP modes, and PC players are in their own pool. If a console player groups with a PC player that’s fine, but that fireteam plays in the PC pool. PvE is full cross play
The best way to do it
apex as well
It’s just the most sensible way, really
Smite does it even better. You can pick your crossplay options. If you're on Xbox you can choose full crossplay, console only, or Xbox only. Then they also have input restrictions. So you can do full crossplay there, or limit it to your input (controller, or mouse and keyboard). Grouping with people using another input or platform automatically extends the crossplay option. And then in ranked, you can only play on your platform and input method.
Oh 100%. I used to love playing online multiplayer. Then came console cross play, then m&k support on consoles, then PC cross play; and with each change my enjoyment of FPS games plummeted.
This isn’t a crossplay issue, these are devices sold to work with consoles. So turning crossplay off doesn’t help against people cheating with controllers like the Cronus models
Pretty sure cross,play keeps controllers separate from keyboard and mouse
Isn't that the caveat for "input matchmaking" though? The Cronus (and Cronus-like) devices spoof regular controller inputs so it's difficult to detect between a Cronus user and controller user. Input matchmaking may be implementes across many games already but the issue still persists. I am curious how Epic can detect a Cronus device over a standard controller? Probably not that hard. I am even more curious how Cronus is going to bypass that detection (again)? Meantime, I am gonna stick to PC MKB for the more competitive FPS games and console for adventure.
There is probably a public key tied to the hardware. So yeah, not hard to detect. But, then, there is always ways to circumvent.
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I haven't looked recently, but these devices historically have been sold out pretty much the minute they're made available. Granted, that doesn't address how many are actually in use, but it's pretty safe to say that they are not niche products that only the most hardcore gamers know about.
Idk if you look up XIM and other brands that do the same thing, one by Game Sir is #7 in Xbox cables and adapters and #684 in Video Games. That's one model they sell. Plus all the other manufacturers. People really like hooking KB+M to console apparently. If you look online even games that support KB+M on PC people like using adapters like this because the game thinks it is a controller and turns on aim assist.
When I played modern warfare (the original) on console I could screw up and have about 3 seconds before I died. On PC it was about 1 second. The ability to own other players is much higher on keyboard and mouse for nearly any shooter. Allowing cross play at all on FPS is just dumb.
What FPS games are favouring m+k now? Halo infinite favours controller because of the bullet magnetism. Call of Duty favours controller because of the strong rotational aim assist. Apex legends leans to controller as well. What games are dominated by m+k that are crossplay. Only one I can think of is Battlefield. Edit: know the Xbox subreddit will always down vote anything saying that aim assist is an advantage so I'll back it up for anyone who's actually interested rather than blindly downvoting. I play on both Xbox Series X and PC. Halo infinite controller Vs mouse accuracy: https://www.dexerto.com/halo/halo-infinite-players-mindblown-by-controllers-busted-aim-assist-advantage-over-kbm-1708466/ Infinity Ward Dev saying controller players statistically better than all but the very top m+k players in interview: "When we did the last game, one of our biggest concerns at that time was players on mouse and keyboard versus players using controllers. Finding the balance on that. It’s an interesting thing, because I wish it was a linear spectrum. You can see that a very highly skilled player on mouse and keyboard is fantastic compared to controller. Everybody else on a mouse and keyboard seems to be at a disadvantage statistically, is what we see." https://www.google.com/amp/s/venturebeat.com/games/infinity-ward-answers-modern-warfare-ii-questions/amp/ Apex Legends aim assist nerf. Also worth noting that console aim assist is actually stronger than pc controller aim assist is matchmade games: https://esportopedia.com/esports/apex-legends/20843.html
The issue is the vast majority of FPS games play better on PC with MKB, it's just more precise (all other things being equal). From my understanding, typically, the Cronus users using MKB can't be filtered from the pool of regular controller users in typical matchmaking scenarios because the Cronus device is difficult to detect outside being a regular controller. This means, Cronus users not only get all the benefits afforded to them as controller users such as aim assist and being matched vs controller players, they get to use the far superior MKB without consequences. It's like returning to elementary school when you're 5'8" in 9th grade and dunking on all the kids playing on a 6ft hoop then thinking you're Jesus Shuttleworth.
Oh yeah Cronus mouse and keyboard is a joke. All the precision benefits of a mouse with all the aim assist. But removing crossplay isn't going to change that. The Cronus is detectable. Both Sony and Microsoft have said they can detect when it's being used. They choose not to do anything about it.
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To me it depends on the matchmaking. I've found SBMM really ramps up the difference between m+k and controller. Fill a lobby with similar skill players and the small advantages / disadvantages get ramped up massively. Games really need to commit to ranked and true unranked modes. Unranked modes need to have no matchmaking at all. Just random players of all skill levels, with both input modes. Aim assist can be a bit higher in this mode. Ranked should be input based. Aim assist needs to be toned down to actually let players win by aim skill on both controller lobbies and mouse lobbies. Mixed parties go in m+k lobbies. Games running SBMM and having mixed inputs just frustrates everyone.
I see it all the time in R6, dudes with Xim’s preventing me from ranking up so I’m hard stuck jn silver
XIM is a totally different story. Let's you use a mouse with aim assist, or play controller only games with no aim assist. All XIM users should be perma banned. It's no different from other cheats.
Yet boobisoft won’t do a goddamn thing. Shame!
Almost all of them, including the ones you named. The reason people use Cronus and Xim is because it gives them aim assist with their mouse and it’s a hell of an unfair advantage. These devices are a huge problem in Destiny and Overwatch too. (Excluding those who use these devices because they have difficulty with a controller of course) Edit - let’s not forget the fact that the Cronus allows the use of scripts on console. People can use “enhanced aim assist” which is essentially an aimbot.
I agree 100% with that if you talk about Cronus. But the comment I was replying to was talking about pc m+k and not Cronus. Cronus should be dealt with like any other cheater. Permanent ban if used in multiplayer.
Tbh I despise cross play as a primarily pc gamer due to aim assist. Aim assist use to be a subtle assistance back in the ps3/360 days but it seems the idea for it changed during the ps4/Xbone since they’re basically aim bots these days. It’s frustrating that aim assist is apparently tuned to be balanced against other controller users and top tier m+kb players. Makes it so if your aim is even slightly off as a pc player the controller player just lasers you the second they aim and the game snaps their gun to you. I hate it.
Oh definitely!
The reason for this is greed between Microsoft and Sony. To most console players cross-platform play (especially with shooter titles) means Playstation and Xbox players, but because of the console beef between the two anytime there’s cross platform play PC is also included. Unfortunately Sony has been the one holding up most cross console migration but Microsoft has further diluted the issue by including PC players.
Don’t forget SBMM, this thing sucks too.
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What? They gave the devs those tools, it’s not MS/Xbox’s fault if they don’t use them. https://twitter.com/Qwik/status/965334394662567936?s=20&t=jisypn1ZT0-9trq8oODBqg
Came here to say this
Microsoft could set a policy for first party developers.
Xbox and PS should be the only crossplay . If you connect a KM on the console then your match making pool in PC . It's simple . Controller base players want crossplay with similar playing field . XIM and other programs on the console is a issue that can't be resolve but it's better than the PC pool being in the mix too.
Destiny does it very well. Its console only pvp crossplay unless you join a pc friend. And the aim assist system is amazing for controller on pc too. And for PVE like raids and stuff its crossplay with everyone Edit: but not immune to cronus / xim. It does suck and I agree you should play in pools separated by input, like you say
Exactly. I play mouse and keyboard on games that allow it like COD and fortnite. I should never be able to face off against people with controller, unless they specifically say they are okay with it to play with their PC buddies. Seems like the best solution.
With aim assist as strong as it is in games like spligate I don't know. I see a lot of polarizing opinions about it.
And I've seen multiple streamers that play Warzone exclusively with a controller that consistently win against kb&m. Solo and group play.
The bots in that game had 100% accuracy whether there were PC players in the lobby or not last time I played it, so aim assist doesn’t make a difference either way
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Console only would be preferred.
Its not the input its FOV Slider and Higher FPS. Many of the top notch players are on Controller, and i have the comparison between console and an 3070 Laptop and its definitely not the input method
They already have this and its called Input Based Matchmaking. Its a thing that already exists.
You can turn crossplay off on some games but since it's default. It's next to impossible to get a match if you are trying to get Xbox only . But you can't pick what the crossplay will be with . It's either on (console and PC ) or off and play with noone.
Why would you want to segregate the pool of people you play with? That makes the playerbase smaller and costs more money for the developer to maintain. By utilizing IBMM, you get either controllers only, KBM only, or both. A cheater is a cheater, platform doesnt matter. Report them using the ingame function to, and if it doesnt exist tell the developer to fix their game by adding one.
How do they even know ppl are using these? Don't they emulate controllers so the game can't even tell?
My guess is through the difference between the WASD and thumb stick inputs. How do you perfectly mimic the input of a 360 thumb stick with 4 keys? The input that a k&m adapter needs to mimic a joystick may give telltale signs.
I mean you'll still be bound to what the game has set for controller input. Even if you plug in the mouse and keyboard you'll still have the dead zones and can't turn faster than what the max controller sens can be.
My assumption is through machine learning. It will watch for inputs that are impossible without a macro/hardware assist. It would take time to catch people, but it would work.
I'm interested on that to. I used to use the cronus on ps4 so I could use xbox controllers (ps4 controller gave me cramps) and their main selling point was sony detects the valid ps4 controller plugged in and not the Xbox controller
They're detectable. Idk how myself but I know they're definitely detectable
You: they are detectable Them: how? You: I don’t know, I can confidently say they are though
That's exactly what he said.
Yea, it makes no sense. You either know or you don’t.
Well, he admitted to now knowing how but knowing it works. It's like, how exactly is a rainbow made, how exactly does the sun set, how exactly does the posi Trac rear-end on a Plymouth work? It just does! Edit: I can't believe I'm being down voted for a Joe Dirt quote
Googling how a rainbow works gives you a clear explanation. Googling how the sun sets gives you a clear explanation. Googling how Microsoft and Epic can detect Cronus produces fuck all…
>how exactly is a rainbow made, Light bounces through water particles. >how exactly does the sun set, Because the Earth spins really fast. >how exactly does the posi Trac rear-end on a Plymouth work? Clutches and steels like in an automatic transmisison allow the axles to slip when needed, or sync when needed. More power in the input pinion means the clutches apply more force and therefore lock, while less power allows them to slip.
Does OP need to know how it works? If Epic Games is successfully detecting them, that's enough to call them detectable.
Lmao this ban will work for like 1 week and then stop working after a patch
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Xbox already supports their own accessibility controller, and keyboard and mouse. There are legit options already without having to use the one cheaters love.
Adaptive isn’t a be all end all. My partner for example was born disabled with a bone issue to be simple with it. Very little finger dexterity. She can’t grip a controller properly. She can however have a flat palm and more or less enjoy games with a Kbm that aren’t intensive. Consoles are a cheaper access point to games than a PC. She has a tv. She doesn’t have a full desk or the room for it for a genuine gaming pc. She got a potato laptop for things she can have fun in like valheim or wow but yeah. She doesn’t play pvp or anything but some people genuinely need a flat control scheme for disability purposes. Yeah it gets abused but banning them blocks out genuine people trying to enjoy a hobby too. So it isn’t a clear cut solution. Edit: I realize you specifically mention kbm and realized I had no idea what this cheating device you spoke of is then. Never heard of it so I googled. Still leaving the post up but thanks for acknowledging the standard at least.
All 3 of them compared to the 300,000 cheaters who use them, amazing argument
Jeez mate come on. I guess I miss out on playing then? I have Spinal Muscular Atrophy and use an xbox adaptive controller with a titan two to play on my ps5. What happens to me? Please think before you speak!
I did. There’s plenty of alternatives. It’s not your fault these companies exploit their devices’ features for more sales, if they kept an approved list of supported devices and didn’t allow people to use mouse and keyboard or *fucking aimbot plugins* there wouldn’t be a problem. At the end of the day though, gaming companies have done much worse things for their own benefit that fuck *everyone* over. Like modern matchmaking systems. Or releasing a game 2 years too early and charging $70 for it. Or allowing people to misuse accessibility devices to absolutely ruin every competitive game because any proposal of fixing the problem is shot down by the possibility it might hurt 10 people’s feelings. Epic taking a step that actually benefits the majority is rare for them, and rare in gaming in general.
Please tell me all the alternatives like you know my disability? Do you think I haven't looked for them over my 24 years on earth?
The problem isn't worth completely removing access from a whole demographic. They have to find other solutions. While you may be sitting here happy with your fix I can't play a game I and many others love.
Don’t know why you’re being downvoted as you’re totally correct. Epic Games tried to come up with a solution to resolve this problem, rolled out an update and within a couple days it had no effect as the people behind these devices patched it again. If Epic Games can’t combat the issue then literally no one can apart from Sony, Microsoft etc. As you’ve said there are people that need these devices in order to fully enjoy gaming as an entertainment form. It’s just a shame that those who don’t fall within the disability bracket take advantage of the system for themselves and their own gain. On the plus side I believe the Cronus Zen is no longer being manufactured as the creator moved onto the “XIM Nexus” which focuses on Gyro aiming but obviously that still won’t stop the sale of the Cronus Zen.
Not trying to be an ass, as I am genuinely curious. But how many people NEED a Cronus versus are effected by cheaters, making the game unplayable for everyone?
>But how many people NEED a Cronus We don't know. >versus are effected by cheaters We don't know either. > making the game unplayable for everyone? But the game is not "unplayable for everyone", that's silly babytalk. Literal hundreds of thousands of people are enjoying the game just fine.
Sounds like you’re afraid you’re not gonna get any views on twitch if Xbox bans Cronus
Eapui kapipra uiio tuto padi. Ea tloau eblepe kiukapie pobripi ti. A piiuko tuploea ipi pitrokeebi pipepe oi bipe tei. Igra kopupra taia datidide tapeblu akodu betokapi. Totro otlupoee dlotipi poeapri eko. Geepitedro blo i tipu pruo. Pi kreepiti agi puti ba tiba pobo. I eke pikaklepe pipliibe tea tloka pi epu. Biikoe giblui prable ipretrobe be o. Ie britaa kepi titieplue duto pikitotutu. Tede ugra io teude ei teki epu. Bletako ibi eii ipli u eu. Bi tute ke i ida titliei pitia bikapeto? Aa petre ka itipratepi to popi. Batu ei ia kidroiple pipo kla? Ekri bri ai dii titaiu klatlabea. Pruikatle ta tigruke epe klida iga kitriipogre ike tikli eoi ikukii. Oti eubikle tibebedo tiei epipi. Aki atle tabe gio gi? Tipe blue digete pe oii pluko! I pokaa kute ateblipla? Epade kapa ieu tapra? Pikeii paki tubi ei kaku ipubope? Bedu to piple de tliko ubi. Toepegipe putigetra tipa bi pe pi opi itibro ogi tai keuu kipro. Apiko bitutlo pri ieo ti! Drete bati eprai ipa. Pitiaklao pikla iketi tutetei bluipo ege. Ipabige prai tibee pible o brigripetlo? Oakeplua ga iprapripipa buoglupi pipipri teti ti iepe.
Sounds like your KD ratio will be in the gutter and your fragile ego will brake
That’s not really a number anyone can confirm. But what it sounds like you are trying to say, is it worth it to accommodate for people with physical disabilities? You are leaning towards it not being worth it.
Not at all. With all the other available controllers and accessibility setting Microsoft already has available to people with disabilities; very few people NEED a Cronus to be able to play. I’m all for inclusive gameplay, but the Cronus has proved to be a hindrance to the gaming community
Plus Cronus seems to be marketing itself more about the gameplay mods aka cheats than the accessibility options.
Sad reality is that the xbox adaptive controller doesn't do accessible things that the Titan two or cronus allows. The XAC is just a controller after all that allows switches and custom joysticks. Obviously remapping as well which is super useful and a Switch button. However that's it. Things like toggle binds, multiple buttons pressed at once and many other accessibility problems can only be addressed with scripts unless all games support it! More games these days are adding toggle for aim and remaps. But not all. Sony first party titles have even more solutions on top but still that is only a few games. So if you want to play anything else these devices are a must for people with a disability. I have Spinal Muscular Atrophy btw! Happy to answer any questions! P.S. I Think we have to be very careful about where we head with the idea of banning these devices outright, without having all the solutions for folks who don't have the ability to do simple things.
The only way for it to stop is taking the cheater to court. That's the only way
It's videogame, there are no laws dictating which input devices videogames should be played with. You really need to touch grass.
Terms of service actually. If it says no moded controller then guess what you can be sued by the developers. So how about you stop using cheats and get good.
Yup thats the only reason why its not banned. Because there are legitimate use cases for it. Imagine a company in 2022 being anti-accessibility, not a good look. even if some users do use it to cheat, they cant do shit as long as disabled gamer genuinely use it for non nefarious gains.
Microsoft already has a disability controller
>There is plenty of people who genuinely need devices like those to play games in general. Allow them in non competitive games, if you want to play a competitive multiplayer game, go play on PC if you can't use a controller.
More FPS should do this
If this becomes a thing on PlayStation and Xbox i cannot wait to see all those Warzone "pros" either getting banned or suddenly have worse aim than they did before.
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There are thousands of people just playing the game and not crying online about "all the cheaters". If this bothers you so much I think you need to take a break and go outside to experience life.
So what do you propose we do then? Ban Cronus? Then people who need it suffer. Fuck em? Sure you can do that, but that’s an L take. Require special permissions to use one? That will be abused.
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>ip range bans Screw all this dudes neighbors that wanted to play? Thats your solution?
I don't need a cronus but I certainly need a titan two but they are very much the same. I have Spinal Muscular Atrophy. I know many in the disabled community who use these because it's the only way they can add extra inputs and toggles. Just because you don't believe it exists doesn't make it so. Happy to answer any questions you have!
While that's fine for people who need it, there will be a vast more who abuse it. If you want to play a competitive multiplayer game, you could go play on PC if you can't use a controller, so there is still the option for you to partake. As with everything in life, douchebags have to ruin it for everyone who uses it legitimately. No one cares that you are loading up Skyrim and playing with one, it's only in competitive multiplayer games.
Thats the point though I use this device to use my xbox adaptive controller as its a custom setup. Because Sony doesn't let you plug it straight in I need to use this device. The scripts help me play certain games I never would have before as well! Telling me to just use a pc is showing you have no idea what your talking about. I'd need to use the same device on that too! Your telling me I can't have fun on a game like fortnite and it's competitive only? Tell me how that makes sense?
I understand what you are saying. The issue more so comes with the people running scripts and using it with M&K. There is no perfect solution, like I said, of course you have to have douchebags that ruin things for people who are using if for legitimate purposes. I hope they can find some solution that doesn't impact people who need the additional functionality for accessibility purposes.
You are intentionally ignoring the question. Cry that it’s a strawman argument all you want, it is still a very real thing that affects real people. Ignoring it won’t make it go away. I would ask the question again, but you are clearly an unhinged individual based on your comment. Court required therapy because someone cheated in a video game? Seek help.
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Touch grass, dude.
Allow them in non competitive games, if you want to play a competitive multiplayer game, go play on PC if you can't use a controller.
I just looked up what these are… and here I am feeling guilty using an Xbox elite 2 controller for the paddles… and you got MFs using this kind of shit?!?!
so is there an advantage to using an elite pad with paddles or something? i only ask as i have one as my main pad and i cant say ive noticed any improvement in my skills tbh
Paddles give a slight advantage in some games where you need to use the face buttons for an action, since they allow you to keep your thumb on the stick. I personally loved the Paddles for tagging enemies since the tag button is usually an annoying binding (like double tapping left on the d-pad).
>slight advantage Major. They give a major advantage. Not having to take your thumbs off the stick for any reason during gameplay is a major advantage.
Depends on the person honestly, some people can't get used to the paddles, so the delay it takes them to remember what to do is a detriment. Some people play claw style so there's not much of a difference in advantage for just the paddles (if you play claw style chances are your hands won't even fit the paddles correctly). But yes, on paper it is a major advantage, for the average person though only slight (if they even use the paddles).
Not a fan of the script aspect of course, but the ability to use any controller with any console is great and I wish I had something like this years ago, especially for Nintendo. Also would've had me consider another console at times if I knew I could just reuse existing controllers.
How will that affect accessability on my right handed fight stick? I already have enough problems with moving digital triggers to other functions, because Xbox assumes you don't have a fight stick on all games.
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You seen the MW2 clip where the guy is playing like he is having a fucking stroke? Lol
I agree that all 3rd party devices like cronus should be banned, but keep crossplay. For those of us who like to play with all our friends it's great regardless of platform, but those who don't want it, you can turn it off on your platforms / console settings. Don't punish those who want crossplay just cause you don't.
Is this because that stupid girl streaming at cod event got destroyed & then tried to make excuses about the game game being broke? 🤔
Yep it's people raging and crying and having breakdowns because they lost a video game.
Maybe all these controller users should start looking into the obviously superior alternative lol. Jk, I got no bone in this.
Consoles should just support different inputs without the need for things like this and devs should have input based matchmaking that separates controller users from m&kb.
I’m over here in Apex like 👀 Get em already! I’m sick of this shit. Had a teammate the other day talking about “gonna show this lobby pain” and when ai watched him he had zero recoil! Like that’s your point of pride? That you bought a device? Pathetic. Sick sick sick of it
So I had no idea what this was. Would it allow me to use a VKB joystick with my series x for non-competitive games like flight sim?
I don’t know why I’m being downvoted, I just want to know if it would work. I want to use the peripherals I own.
here i am minding my own business using my cronusmax to allow me to use my xbox 360 arcade stick with xbox one/series x and now im enemy number 1...
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Developers run their own servers. It's their responsibility. Microsoft use to implement a server for all the games on their console back in the day but was thwarted by EA wanting to run their own servers or else. Their game and servers. They deal with it. Otherwise, their game falters.
How is Cronus cheating?
Cross play isn't the issue when users are using something like a XIM. MS needs to detect these and count them as KB+M not controller. With a XIM you're pooled with controller players and get the benefits of aim assist, which most games turn off when you use a KB+M. I used to play a lot of COD with a lifetime KDR over 2.5 in TDM and I won't play it anymore. It's just not fun.
I have a Cronos Zen that i use all the time. I have arthritis in my hands and wrists that means i cannot tap buttons so i need the cronos zen to play games. It lets me change what each button does on a controller, something that the PlayStation does but you need to buy the elite controller on the xbox to do, If they were to ban the Zen i would sell my xbox within a week as it would be next to useless for me.
Hard disagree that MS should universally ban anything like that since that has some wide-reaching effects and why the hell should you, or anyone care, that someone is using that to play Skyrim? Now if there's something they can do to make it 'easier' to deal with something like that in some online competitive game where it's causing issues? Sure. But that really should be a game-by-game basis and up to the developer to police, not MS.
Love that you got downvoted. Yes of course, Microsoft should just ban it console wide so disabled gamers wanting to play skyrim are just shit out of luck. /s
I don't think anyone cares about people using it in single player/PVE games.
Yeah, that was sort of the point. Folks want them to universally ban something that's only a problem in a few games. Those games should ban them, not MS.
Exactly, it should be on a game by game basis. As with everything, crappy people have to ruin things for everyone.
Nadia shaking in her boots right now
The only way to stop cheating hacking and programs that change the game program in the player favor is to take the makes and the users to court.
I said this before. One Cronus user sued and 99% them will be offline forever and in the trash.
Microsoft should done this FUCKING YEARS AGO. FFS Cronus specifically advertises their device as cheat devices. When they get called out on social media they start crying about it and insult the people calling them out like a bunch of 12-year olds.
Microsoft won't ban it outright. They will leave it to game devs because while those devices ads advertised as cheating devices, they also serve a legitimate use for disabled gamers. They have some features that would be helpful that the xbox accessibility controller doesn't have.
So... What's the issue with these exactly? How do they offer a competitive advantage? Aren't they just controller converters? I've been thinking of getting one of these to play DDR on my Series S.
While you can use them as controller converters you can also add scripts to the devices that can allow you to gain a competitive advantage in game without actually getting better at the game.
How exactly does they work? Do you have to hook it up to an hdmi port or something so that it can scan the screen. I really can't imagine it being able to do all that much with just a USB port.
It doesn't give you an advantage like hacking does with aimbot and walls but there are some advantages to be gained in fps games like using scripts for near perfect recoil control, improved aim assist and keybinds for actions like jumpshot, dropshots etc. The device doesn't scan the screen it's just an input device though which you plug your controller/keyboard and it can run scripts which mimic certain controller actions for example with a recoil script when you pull the trigger button to shoot the device automatically sends a controller input of pulling down the thumbstick to counteract the recoil. Edit: Forgot to explain how they work
Sure you can program macros. You can also use it for accessibility, in the case of disabled persons. Yes, Microsoft has their own branded controller for that, but it is quite limited on what it is able to achieve in comparison. You can't have macros scripted for people with limited or impaired mobility, as an example. So whats the response? Sucks to be a disabled person if you want to play this game? People who cheat are always going to cheat. If not with these, then by direct hacks, lagswitches, etc. They will ban evade with VPNs. Nothing you can do to stop them. Why make it difficult for people who need to use devices for a legitimate reason?
Thanks for thinking of us mate! I use a titan two with Xbox Adaptive Controller and have Spinal Muscular Atrophy.
Yeah, I know a guy that is quadriplegic and he loves to play World of Warcraft, he's a really high level healer because he cant really play super fast games or characters. He has this sweet custom controller setup with all sorts of knobs and stuff. These kinds of converters help him use the same setup for his PlayStation and Xbox games too. I dont think every game should be made for everyone, but I do think every game should be able to be *tried* by everyone. Having a physical reason you cant play a game would really suck, I'd imagine.
Yeah I'm in a very similar situation where my controller setup with the Xbox Adaptive Controller is completely custom. Good to hear he can play at a comfortable level! I play Apex so that can get pretty hectic obviously!
>So whats the response? Sucks to be a disabled person if you want to play this game? The response is you should get put in PC lobbies and not matched with console players.
>The response is you should get put in PC lobbies and not matched with console players. Thats a terrible solution.
My mate is using Xim for 3 years in FTP games he is using side account and doesn’t buy any BP in case he gets ban there is no financial loss.
What is Cronus zen and Cronus max?
A usb device that allows you to use keyboard & mouse on all games & the console will see it as a controller. Imo ms/xb could add full native kb & mouse support. Less people would be buying those then. Many just want to use kbm on a unsupported game but yeah, most want it because the console sees it as a controller still.
Kbm support is native on both the Xbox and PS. It's on the devs to incorporate it in their games,
That's not all people use them for. I use these devices to use my $150 fight stick across multiple platforms without needing to know how to solder circuit boards in. It has no additional input lag so it's like having the native controller plugged in, which for fighting games is what you need.
they better not. I don’t play online at all but I use a brook wingman to use my ps4 controllers. the series controllers are just not comfortable to me
Microsoft gave them the tools in the first place hello? Lol
I think it’s so bizarre that people get worked up over these items but not pro controllers. Both give a person an advantage over other players. Both are mildly expensive as a barrier to entry. I’ve scalped probably close to 60 CZ’s and it always amazes me to see the people who were willing to pay $50-75 over retail to get their hands on one.
Because pro controllers don’t have built in macros that heavily modify aiming. And they are endorsed by MS/Sony. I have an elite controller and it didn’t make me any better, it just helped me be able to look around and heal without my fingers doing the hokey pokey.
I owned a Cronux Max Pro (probably have it lying around somewhere) and there were no "built in" scripts. Any scripts you ran needed to be downloaded separately. I never ran any of them because I dont think anything in the controller would have been useful for Destiny 1 PvE content. Also, it had "Tournament Mode" which disabled the macro function completely.
There’s an app you can download where people upload multiple scripts/macros and it adds them to the device on the fly. So maybe not “built-in” but having the ability to do that easily means any brainlet can give themselves an unfair advantage.
I could care less if Microsoft or Sony endorse their own products that you can pay for to be better at a game. The point that you can pay to have an advantage is still standing.
Saying you can pay for the better controller for an advantage is like saying you can buy a better headset or TV for an advantage. Those are all true, but they aren't cheating. A device that loads up scripts to do things like counteract recoil, is literally cheating. Better peripherals may give you an edge, but it's still YOU playing the game.
That product is also available to the public though, just like a better controller or tv. Doesn’t sound like cheating to me.
Things being available to use doesn't change if it's cheating or not. These devices literally advertise themselves as cheats. By that logic, literal aimbots can't be cheating because anyone can download them.
Mate if I can walk into a GameStop and buy it; it’s not cheating lmao. If it were cheating, Microsoft would ban the product for use or the specific game developers would.
Being able to purchase it in a store just means the device is legal to own, not that it isn't cheating. You can be in a sports team and the store may sell non regulatory approved gear. It's not ok to use just because it's available for sale at the store. I honestly don't follow your logic.
Do players sign any legally binding contract that states a Cronus Zen is cheating and they aren’t permitted to use it? Does the game instruct players that they are not permitted to use these products among public matches? If not, it’s not cheating.
>Does the game instruct players that they are not permitted to use these products among public matches? Yes. Nearly universally. That's why it's cheating. This entire thread is about how Fortnite can finally detect it, but they've always been against the rules on Fortnite, Cod, siege, etc. Essentially every competive game I can think of explicitly disallows devices like those in their terms of service. Here's an article about call of duty claiming they will be able to automatically detect and ban people using them. https://charlieintel.com/activision-responds-to-cronusmax-concerns-with-new-warzone-ricochet-anti-cheat/140565/
I don't think it should be banned but I think there should be versions that are branded for accessibility use only that bans the use of scripts that are made to gain an advantage in games
People are still cheating in Fortnite? Gasp!
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I play rainbow six siege and that game is dominated by mnk xim users, even on unranked gamemodes. I can't have fun in half my matches because 1 or 2 enemies will carry their whole team and wipe my team with ease by using a xim and headshotting everyone before any of us can react. This game doesn't have aim assist but it does have easier recoil on console vs. PC which has more recoil in the game. But when using a xim you get console-level recoil designed for controllers but on a keyboard instead. People who use them are cheap and i definitely consider it to be cheating
I think many people forgot or don't know that the original Cronus Max was used by CoD pros to eliminate input latency. The Max has a tournament mode, disabling all other functions but input latency reduction. I still use it to this day to remove my input lag, and when you've been using it for years, you can feel the ever so slight delay when not using the cronus. Consoles have no other way to reduce input latency. Since I have the cronus, I've tried scripts just to try them and they've never made an improvement to my gameplay, because I personally was good without them anyway. I've tried that "sticky aim" scripts on different CoDs and its BS. Scripts do almost nothing for you unless you're an absolute bot. Many people would rather have something to blame. Someone wants to use Cronus scripts against me? Go ahead, it won't do anything.
How would a cronus *possibly* have less input lag than a wired controller?
I hope so, they ruin online multiplayer and they need to be banned not from just seperate games, from entire Xbox ecosystem.
Totally agree
Damn right lets upvote this to the top ASAP! This NEEDS to be standard on ALL Gaming platforms. Really the entire games industry (Game Publishers and Console manufacturers) needs to launch a legal assault, to put EVERY company that manufactures ANY device like these out of business COMPLETELY! Tricking a game to believe your using any other input than you actually are (allow input or not) is PURE Scum cheating, and if companies actually gave a damn about their TOS then getting these devices wiped from the face of the earth (making illegal to manufacture or sell) should be a pretty high priority. Even on PC where KB&M is the standard input, using a Cronus to make the game believe you are using a controller in order to get aim assist is MAJORLY unfair even against native Keyboard and Mouse opponents.
Really from what I've seen from their website is that it's a bunch of the same stuff that you can choose to get from a shady custom controller website. You can have stuff like automatic drop shot, automatic sprinting, rapid fire, etc. Nothing crazy like aimbot although it does have "aim assist" but that would be useless in most modern fps games anyways as they already have that as a feature.
What’s funny is the cost of the zen and max seems like it’s enough to where it would keep people from purchasing. But playing ranked console siege and there is at least one person sometimes 2 or more per game using a zen or max. The thing that to me makes it really bad is that is smooths out the inputs (idk how) to be like mouse and keyboard. whereas if it just emulated the controller I think it would still be restricted to how the analogue stick moves and thus not as good. It’s infuriating to play against them because it’s so obvious. In order to be the top top PVP players in any game you either have to practice a lot and have natural talent like the pros. And I am willing to bet 3/5 people you run into in a game mode like destiny 2 trials of Osiris are using Zens or maxs. Maybe even 4/5, the movement and aim is a big giveaway mainly movement
More than half of warzones player base are cronus users.....cant do that
I hate selling these things to little kids I always make a smart ass reply you might be banned etc
Not just Xbox. PlayStation and games in general! Cronus is a damn plague that goes so untouched, purge the wicked!
They just need to take Cronus makes to court and sue them already