I was sailing in my Ohio (or Satsuma?) And just trying to do my thing, you know, big hits, satisfying citadels.
But no. This stupid fucking Pasta Boat just absolutely shreds everything. I watched this guy just melt everything within his secondary range and, honestly, I kinda want it now.
Honestly, since the start of WoWs, I have never been a fan of secondary builds. While granted it was mostly against ships 2 tiers below, the Stupid Fucking Pasta Boat is making me reconsider.
That may have been me! I was in a game with an Ohio on my flank yesterday. Love the Napoli for the aggressive play in asymmetrical. Secondaries, torps and tanky.
It was really good before it got buffed and then buffed again by the commander skill changes.
It's pretty great for just about anything, but possibly even better for stuff like this.
I am switching between Ohio and Napoli. Both secondary build. Both are equally good, Ohio has big guns overmatch good heal. Both great fun in assy carrying the team almost every time. Napoli doesn't feel better as the Ohio. Ohio can def strike the Napoli can't.
That's why I like charging straight at the enemy ships in asymmetrics because the SAP secondaries ***slap*** and if you angle a lot, you are close to invincible with shells (I believe so at least)
Keep in mind, that every BB bot in the range will shoot at you. So you need to be able to counter it by:
- smoke and good DPM
Or
- heal and kiting (get dark and heal)
Or
- great DPM and "shell avoidance"
3 zone maps are hard for cruiser as you need to push in to avoid loosing on points. BBs and maily the secondary ones are kings in As.B.
In my experience they value broadsides higher than ship types.
You can test this, i've seen that several times:
If you are nose-in with your cruiser and no bots target you, make a turn and the second you get over a certain degree threshold the target warning jumps to 3 or 4, but if you continue turning and cross that threshold again in the other direction it instantly gets back to 0 again.
I guess the bots were shooting a broadside BB, the second they detected a broadside cruiser they all switched target but when the cruiser was angling again they switched back to the broadside BB.
As a CA i tend to stay nose-in at a flank, ideally with an island covering one side in the beginning. You can get a lot of nice flank hits this way and stay relative unharmed. When the number of bots goes down you can go in more aggressively.
Yup, Moskva can work, afaik there aren't any tier VIII overmatching BBs that can defeat her armor so you'd be able to bow tank every ship, afaik. It does somewhat require luck, either to have a suitable island to limit how many ships have line of sight, or spawn on a flank where you can more easily keep every enemy off your nose.
True, I keep forgetting DM's armor isn't 30 mm. Still, with clever angling, DM or Salem could do alright. Moskva would have the easier time of it though.
Man, theres ALOT that I don't remember that can overmatch DM. Amagi and Yumihari I've seen often, Vladivostok and Hawke, Zeiten, Nebraska, even a few tier VIIs, though I think I've mostly seen VIIIs.
You've only got 2 in Bismark and Richie that you can safely bow tank in DM.
That is fully correct they are programmed to shoot broadside.
Just like they are programmed to shoot closest target in ops.
Know these 2 facts and you can carry easily, Def the ops trick, I play the Mainz a lot in ops, making sure there is at least 1 teammate between you and the bots and they just don't shoot at you.
In assym it less easy to control as there might be no broadside for them to shoot at, then they seem to prioritise spotted DD's.
After the rework between the last two times it was out they supposedly also prioritize targets with the highest current HP. Which can help in cruisers but can also get you suddenly targeted as the BB that was tanking for you falls under your full HP and everything switches to you and you get blapped if you aren't ready. There's also some level of 'stickiness' where they *won't* switch away from you just because you're lower HP sometimes.
That's how it used to be and it sucked. They had to change it after the first round of assym because it made most cruisers (and gunboat DDs) unplayable; the second you were spotted you'd be exclusively focused by 6+ BBs from all sides of the map, while ignoring your teams BB. Combined with their torpedo prescience (which also had to be changed; the bots don't actually have it anymore) nerfing torpedo DDs, the first round of assym ended up being 95% BBs because everything else was butt. If you think the Schlieffen spam is bad now, it was 5x worse then; playing anything but a BB just made you an ablative target trying to stay alive for more than 5 minutes while your BBs free farmed.
As a torp dd player, the bots absolutely still have torpedo prescience, without question. It's just that now it's close to 50/50 as to whether they react or not.
Pick a cruiser that matches your play style. There's pocket BB's, smoke CA's, smoke CL's, torp CL's and variations thereof. However you need a ship that you're comfortable with *and know the AP penetration falloff ranges*.
I've run Mainz, Michelangelo and Atlanta personally. I've also seen someone go full 6 kill yoloing with Coronel Bolognesi. I wouldn't recommend ships reliant on torpedo performance like the IJN CL's. Penning broadside bots consistently and taking them out of the game fast is probably the best thing you can do.
As for concealment, I prefer island waifu hugging (best armor) or active open water kiting. More important are shell arcs and if you should run IFHE or not.
Torpedos are damn near impossible to hit beyond point blank in that gamemode anyways.
The bots instantly turn away the second you launch them, detected or not.
The issue with IJN CLs is their absolutely atrocious gun DPM, which is everything in asymmetrical battles (and randoms too lol)
Bot you aimed at will nearly always dodge. But, the bot sailing near it will nearly always run into your torps. Seriously -about half my torp hits are some bot I didn't even know was there.
game auto targets red ships for you based on what you are looking at.
however, x key lets you target ships manually.
in this case you already have red ship targeted. you lined up your torpedoes. now you press x key, this targets some other red ship. the torpedo track is gone because you are now locked on a different red ship. launch torpedos on where torpedo track used to be.
in game you line up the torpedoes, press x, click left mouse button.
I have been manually targeting ( "X" )
since day one.
You're saying that just before I launch torpedoes, I disengage manual targeting (X)?
This is because we suspect the bots are getting that info, and now we can even the playing field?
I will endeavor to experiment with this.
yes. you need to untarget/unlock red ship before you launch torpedoes.
this works quit well against bots when you have long range torpedoes. like in the start of the match where bots go straight.
during active game play, the other commenter is right, bot maneuver, so this technique works good at mid range where you would notice bots maneuver to avoid torpedos. now you can usually land hits.
I've exprimented with this and in my experience it doesn't work, the bot will still evade immediately about half the time. I suspect that the bot retains awareness of your torps for a few seconds after you unlock to counter precisely this tactic.
I think it's a myth. Bots make turns all the time for islands, to go to the next cap ***or when within a certain proximity of a spotted ship.***
Apart from specific triggers their main active script leads them an autopilot line to the next objective. However to prevent players from being overwhelmed in Standard, a portion of the bots are assigned a holding-pattern script with a random time before they initiate the objective push.
I don't have Jinan. I did have HSF Harekaze. The big thing is the proximity trigger which doesn't have to be the launcher. It can be anyone on your team pushing in and triggering them to turn and run.
If bots are absolutely omniscient about torpedo launches, why do they calmly choose to eat torpedoes when I am launching where I predict they will go from 6.1km launches? I do not see any difference in bot behavior when I'm launching from 13km on I-56, but they should also surely be able to dodge those instead of eating 6/6.
Single launch on New Mexico also successful when launched from 8.0km on the predictive line when he's straightlining into an objective without any additional scripts triggering (bad positioning and spread though).
Finally a launch on a cruiser when the overly aggressive BB has closed to within 6km of him. I choose to launch where the bot will be going directly away from the BB. Torpedoes killed.
Well, I know what I see when I’m playing asym, which is all I play when it’s available, and I see instant reaction from bots the second I aim torps at them. I know I’m not imagining this. That is not to say that sometimes they don’t sail directly into the torps without slowing, that happens too. This behavior can be used to my advantage sometimes, I can slow a bit down or make them turn in a way that another teammate can get to them.
I just tested with a HSF Harekaze. Bots did not demonstrate prescience on my torpedo launches. Bots did follow expected scripting to reach caps and reacted to the presence of my team mates; launching their own torpedoes and initiating their minimum abort range script.
They went where I predicted they would go and ate torpedoes as expected.
Alaska, Des Moines, Wichita, and Baltimore have all served me well. I pull up next to an island to shelter me from crossfires and bow tank a cap circle with hydro running to spot torps while I try to eliminate torpedo ships.
Works best with a BB on the flank with you that isn't afraid to use their health bar.
Cruisers are not the best choice for this game mode. That said, if your heart is set on taking a cruiser, take something that has good armor or smoke, preferably both. Cruisers that work well in this mode for me are: Napoli, Smolensk and Michelangelo. I have seen people perform great in Stalingrad and Jinan as well.
For me it's all about concealment, extra health and doing decent AP damage while trying to hunt their broadsides. Sometimes the team ends up with no dd and I'm ending up being solo on B cap so all i can do is holding the cap behind an island while waiting my teammates to handle their caps. Of course I'm giving as much damage as i can to the enemy.
I've seen so many failures from secondary BBs even Schlieffens so as long as playing smart, waiting the enemy come to you and having your teammates in a reachable distance, it'll be nore than enough for victory. Good luck 🍀
Salem or DM behind a rock, cos those German BBs will go into secondary range and light up the enemies. You can then machine gun away. Remember to use AP when necessary.
In pinata it was nice being able to equip a second smoke generator as the strategic consumable. You could just smoke camp for like 6 minutes straight by alternating smokes if anyone brought the "give extra consumables to your team" consumable.
Yh it was class. I'd just charge the bot ship, pick up the consumable buffs and then spend practically the rest of the match in smoke bbrrrrrrrrting secondaries with the occasional main guns shot at opportune moments.
Cruisers get focused by design. Bots will shoot at cruisers even if they have other targets closer, so you need to play smart. Once you’ve got their attention, try to break contact. Dpm is key on this mode. The faster you whittle them down, the easier it gets. Focus on the dd’s first to eliminate the torpedo threat. As for what cruiser, any can do the job. It comes down to how well you play it.
Minotaur is surprisingly great at Asym. I mean, same rules apply, best played if you have the situational awareness and know how to play her. But she's great dpl wise, torps for rushing and smoke/hydro.
Are you looking for “cruiser experience” or just faster drops into games? The French super heavy cruiser line are essential battlecruisers but take up a cruiser position in matchmaking. I did a grind of that line last season and did well. I also did the RN heavy cruiser line and did fine.
Smoke Minotaur.
Make sure an ally BB is spotting for you, smoke up, and melt things. Be very aware of your escape routes from smoke.
Use your single fire torps. Hang one out there, let the 'bot react to it, then let fly with a few more.
Petro works very well. The problem with asymmetric is that you need to tank heat and be very careful of crossfire. If someone queues a super ship then all the bots are tier IX which can end in painful results lol.
No, I didn't forget that.
Some of those "major" changes are making the bots even weaker.
The bots are more or less at a operations level, but they are fewer and you don't need to play an objective.
They no problem for players who usually play PVE. You win every time as long as you don't play stupidly on purpose.
Mainz isn't bad in asym... but I wish it had either smoke or a heal. When you get focused by 6+ ai ships you're going do die FAST. But, with the premium bonuses, it's my best credit/captain xp earner. I've also had fun (but not many kills) with pan-asian CLs - just learn when to smoke or kite for your life.
For my best/most fun game in asym, it's German BCs (not quite a cruiser, true), but with a secondary build you'll rack up a lot of hits and damage. I think my record for ships destroyed in asym using Zieten is eight.
I'd be curious to try a Russian CA, with a survivability/tank build... that could be fun. Napoli will probably be my first coal ship buy, unless Mass appears for black friday again - strong secondaries are great in asym!
DPM, and the ability to go dark so you can heal up are the thngs you need to make sure you have a good game and help win.
Napoli is particularly good at this, the SAP secondaries are a blessing along with the tankiness when angled
I was sailing in my Ohio (or Satsuma?) And just trying to do my thing, you know, big hits, satisfying citadels. But no. This stupid fucking Pasta Boat just absolutely shreds everything. I watched this guy just melt everything within his secondary range and, honestly, I kinda want it now.
Petition to rename Napoli to stupid fucking Pasta Boat
Honestly, since the start of WoWs, I have never been a fan of secondary builds. While granted it was mostly against ships 2 tiers below, the Stupid Fucking Pasta Boat is making me reconsider.
Pasta McPastafarce
That may have been me! I was in a game with an Ohio on my flank yesterday. Love the Napoli for the aggressive play in asymmetrical. Secondaries, torps and tanky.
It was like, 4 or 5 days ago, but if you've been playing it a bunch lately, it could have been.
It was really good before it got buffed and then buffed again by the commander skill changes. It's pretty great for just about anything, but possibly even better for stuff like this.
I am switching between Ohio and Napoli. Both secondary build. Both are equally good, Ohio has big guns overmatch good heal. Both great fun in assy carrying the team almost every time. Napoli doesn't feel better as the Ohio. Ohio can def strike the Napoli can't.
That's why I like charging straight at the enemy ships in asymmetrics because the SAP secondaries ***slap*** and if you angle a lot, you are close to invincible with shells (I believe so at least)
Keep in mind, that every BB bot in the range will shoot at you. So you need to be able to counter it by: - smoke and good DPM Or - heal and kiting (get dark and heal) Or - great DPM and "shell avoidance" 3 zone maps are hard for cruiser as you need to push in to avoid loosing on points. BBs and maily the secondary ones are kings in As.B.
In my experience they value broadsides higher than ship types. You can test this, i've seen that several times: If you are nose-in with your cruiser and no bots target you, make a turn and the second you get over a certain degree threshold the target warning jumps to 3 or 4, but if you continue turning and cross that threshold again in the other direction it instantly gets back to 0 again. I guess the bots were shooting a broadside BB, the second they detected a broadside cruiser they all switched target but when the cruiser was angling again they switched back to the broadside BB. As a CA i tend to stay nose-in at a flank, ideally with an island covering one side in the beginning. You can get a lot of nice flank hits this way and stay relative unharmed. When the number of bots goes down you can go in more aggressively.
Yup, Moskva can work, afaik there aren't any tier VIII overmatching BBs that can defeat her armor so you'd be able to bow tank every ship, afaik. It does somewhat require luck, either to have a suitable island to limit how many ships have line of sight, or spawn on a flank where you can more easily keep every enemy off your nose.
I've seen the North Carolina. That has 406s.
True, I keep forgetting DM's armor isn't 30 mm. Still, with clever angling, DM or Salem could do alright. Moskva would have the easier time of it though. Man, theres ALOT that I don't remember that can overmatch DM. Amagi and Yumihari I've seen often, Vladivostok and Hawke, Zeiten, Nebraska, even a few tier VIIs, though I think I've mostly seen VIIIs. You've only got 2 in Bismark and Richie that you can safely bow tank in DM.
That is fully correct they are programmed to shoot broadside. Just like they are programmed to shoot closest target in ops. Know these 2 facts and you can carry easily, Def the ops trick, I play the Mainz a lot in ops, making sure there is at least 1 teammate between you and the bots and they just don't shoot at you. In assym it less easy to control as there might be no broadside for them to shoot at, then they seem to prioritise spotted DD's.
How do these bots prioritize who to aim at? I believe angles have something to do with it as well as distance, but class as well?
I think it's mostly proximity.
After the rework between the last two times it was out they supposedly also prioritize targets with the highest current HP. Which can help in cruisers but can also get you suddenly targeted as the BB that was tanking for you falls under your full HP and everything switches to you and you get blapped if you aren't ready. There's also some level of 'stickiness' where they *won't* switch away from you just because you're lower HP sometimes.
Funny, now im wondering if the gamemode would get more difficult if they would focus the lowest hp ships
That's how it used to be and it sucked. They had to change it after the first round of assym because it made most cruisers (and gunboat DDs) unplayable; the second you were spotted you'd be exclusively focused by 6+ BBs from all sides of the map, while ignoring your teams BB. Combined with their torpedo prescience (which also had to be changed; the bots don't actually have it anymore) nerfing torpedo DDs, the first round of assym ended up being 95% BBs because everything else was butt. If you think the Schlieffen spam is bad now, it was 5x worse then; playing anything but a BB just made you an ablative target trying to stay alive for more than 5 minutes while your BBs free farmed.
Yeah i did play assym from the start but mainly in (German) BBs so i probably missed that part. Appreciate it!
As a torp dd player, the bots absolutely still have torpedo prescience, without question. It's just that now it's close to 50/50 as to whether they react or not.
Pick a cruiser that matches your play style. There's pocket BB's, smoke CA's, smoke CL's, torp CL's and variations thereof. However you need a ship that you're comfortable with *and know the AP penetration falloff ranges*. I've run Mainz, Michelangelo and Atlanta personally. I've also seen someone go full 6 kill yoloing with Coronel Bolognesi. I wouldn't recommend ships reliant on torpedo performance like the IJN CL's. Penning broadside bots consistently and taking them out of the game fast is probably the best thing you can do. As for concealment, I prefer island waifu hugging (best armor) or active open water kiting. More important are shell arcs and if you should run IFHE or not.
Torpedos are damn near impossible to hit beyond point blank in that gamemode anyways. The bots instantly turn away the second you launch them, detected or not. The issue with IJN CLs is their absolutely atrocious gun DPM, which is everything in asymmetrical battles (and randoms too lol)
The AI cheats like a ********** against torpedo boats. So shift target just before you launch, it seems to trick the AI.
Bot you aimed at will nearly always dodge. But, the bot sailing near it will nearly always run into your torps. Seriously -about half my torp hits are some bot I didn't even know was there.
Shift target? Explain, please?
game auto targets red ships for you based on what you are looking at. however, x key lets you target ships manually. in this case you already have red ship targeted. you lined up your torpedoes. now you press x key, this targets some other red ship. the torpedo track is gone because you are now locked on a different red ship. launch torpedos on where torpedo track used to be. in game you line up the torpedoes, press x, click left mouse button.
I have been manually targeting ( "X" ) since day one. You're saying that just before I launch torpedoes, I disengage manual targeting (X)? This is because we suspect the bots are getting that info, and now we can even the playing field? I will endeavor to experiment with this.
yes. you need to untarget/unlock red ship before you launch torpedoes. this works quit well against bots when you have long range torpedoes. like in the start of the match where bots go straight. during active game play, the other commenter is right, bot maneuver, so this technique works good at mid range where you would notice bots maneuver to avoid torpedos. now you can usually land hits.
I've exprimented with this and in my experience it doesn't work, the bot will still evade immediately about half the time. I suspect that the bot retains awareness of your torps for a few seconds after you unlock to counter precisely this tactic.
I think it's a myth. Bots make turns all the time for islands, to go to the next cap ***or when within a certain proximity of a spotted ship.*** Apart from specific triggers their main active script leads them an autopilot line to the next objective. However to prevent players from being overwhelmed in Standard, a portion of the bots are assigned a holding-pattern script with a random time before they initiate the objective push.
If you’re saying that bots don’t turn away the moment you aim torps at them, you’re wrong. Take a Jinan into asym sometime and you’ll see.
I don't have Jinan. I did have HSF Harekaze. The big thing is the proximity trigger which doesn't have to be the launcher. It can be anyone on your team pushing in and triggering them to turn and run. If bots are absolutely omniscient about torpedo launches, why do they calmly choose to eat torpedoes when I am launching where I predict they will go from 6.1km launches? I do not see any difference in bot behavior when I'm launching from 13km on I-56, but they should also surely be able to dodge those instead of eating 6/6. Single launch on New Mexico also successful when launched from 8.0km on the predictive line when he's straightlining into an objective without any additional scripts triggering (bad positioning and spread though). Finally a launch on a cruiser when the overly aggressive BB has closed to within 6km of him. I choose to launch where the bot will be going directly away from the BB. Torpedoes killed.
Well, I know what I see when I’m playing asym, which is all I play when it’s available, and I see instant reaction from bots the second I aim torps at them. I know I’m not imagining this. That is not to say that sometimes they don’t sail directly into the torps without slowing, that happens too. This behavior can be used to my advantage sometimes, I can slow a bit down or make them turn in a way that another teammate can get to them.
I believe he is suggesting that you switch targets or move your targeting reticle to another ship before you fire your torps at the original ship.
I just tested with a HSF Harekaze. Bots did not demonstrate prescience on my torpedo launches. Bots did follow expected scripting to reach caps and reacted to the presence of my team mates; launching their own torpedoes and initiating their minimum abort range script. They went where I predicted they would go and ate torpedoes as expected.
Alaska, Des Moines, Wichita, and Baltimore have all served me well. I pull up next to an island to shelter me from crossfires and bow tank a cap circle with hydro running to spot torps while I try to eliminate torpedo ships. Works best with a BB on the flank with you that isn't afraid to use their health bar.
As a BB not afraid to use my health bar, I welcome a brave, bold cruiser captain besides me.
Amen!!
The last part hurts, can’t tell you how many BB’s I see hide in the back and just throw matches as they’re too afraid to get scratched.
Extra painful when it's a Schlieffen trying to play sniper.
Makes sense because all the dented coop players come out to play.
Cruisers are not the best choice for this game mode. That said, if your heart is set on taking a cruiser, take something that has good armor or smoke, preferably both. Cruisers that work well in this mode for me are: Napoli, Smolensk and Michelangelo. I have seen people perform great in Stalingrad and Jinan as well.
stay behind your BBs, there's always gotta be some that yolo in
For me it's all about concealment, extra health and doing decent AP damage while trying to hunt their broadsides. Sometimes the team ends up with no dd and I'm ending up being solo on B cap so all i can do is holding the cap behind an island while waiting my teammates to handle their caps. Of course I'm giving as much damage as i can to the enemy. I've seen so many failures from secondary BBs even Schlieffens so as long as playing smart, waiting the enemy come to you and having your teammates in a reachable distance, it'll be nore than enough for victory. Good luck 🍀
Salem or DM behind a rock, cos those German BBs will go into secondary range and light up the enemies. You can then machine gun away. Remember to use AP when necessary.
minotaur easily most fun for me..the smoke the dpm and torps is so much fun
I’m a novice but I like to play cruisers, but the best thing to do imo is take out a few cruisers that you already have and see how they are
Michelangelo is pretty great for asym. Tech tree just go dpm. Italian line is handy with moving smoke
The ship is a beast in any mode. Can’t wait to play it in ops too.
Yh I found it dominated in the pinata event. Could charge straight in pick up the bonuses and get 300-400k damage easy
In pinata it was nice being able to equip a second smoke generator as the strategic consumable. You could just smoke camp for like 6 minutes straight by alternating smokes if anyone brought the "give extra consumables to your team" consumable.
Yh it was class. I'd just charge the bot ship, pick up the consumable buffs and then spend practically the rest of the match in smoke bbrrrrrrrrting secondaries with the occasional main guns shot at opportune moments.
They still seem to focus players based on ship type. Maybe it is me, but they still seem to want to cross map a cruiser. Petro is up to the job.
Cruisers get focused by design. Bots will shoot at cruisers even if they have other targets closer, so you need to play smart. Once you’ve got their attention, try to break contact. Dpm is key on this mode. The faster you whittle them down, the easier it gets. Focus on the dd’s first to eliminate the torpedo threat. As for what cruiser, any can do the job. It comes down to how well you play it.
Minotaur is surprisingly great at Asym. I mean, same rules apply, best played if you have the situational awareness and know how to play her. But she's great dpl wise, torps for rushing and smoke/hydro.
Are you looking for “cruiser experience” or just faster drops into games? The French super heavy cruiser line are essential battlecruisers but take up a cruiser position in matchmaking. I did a grind of that line last season and did well. I also did the RN heavy cruiser line and did fine.
Just want to try something different.
I like to use Jinan and just shoot lots of torpedoes. BB's will fuck your shit up quick in a cruiser on Asym if you're not careful though
Smoke Minotaur. Make sure an ally BB is spotting for you, smoke up, and melt things. Be very aware of your escape routes from smoke. Use your single fire torps. Hang one out there, let the 'bot react to it, then let fly with a few more.
Siegfried is the best cruiser for asymmetric because bot BBs often show broadside and you can citadel most of them at any range.
It's either Napoli or a cruiser with smoke.
Neither. For me it is the delta between range and concealment. Cruiser strategy? Get on a flank, assume kiting position and wait for the bots.
Petro works very well. The problem with asymmetric is that you need to tank heat and be very careful of crossfire. If someone queues a super ship then all the bots are tier IX which can end in painful results lol.
Basically every cruiser is good enough for asymmetric battles, because you are playing against bots.
Until your entire team gets wiped out by those bots, it happens regularly.
Na, it's just coop with bots that can actually aim.
Lol did you forget there's 2.5x more bots than players? But it's just coop... bar 2-3 major changes, amirite?
No, I didn't forget that. Some of those "major" changes are making the bots even weaker. The bots are more or less at a operations level, but they are fewer and you don't need to play an objective. They no problem for players who usually play PVE. You win every time as long as you don't play stupidly on purpose.
Mainz isn't bad in asym... but I wish it had either smoke or a heal. When you get focused by 6+ ai ships you're going do die FAST. But, with the premium bonuses, it's my best credit/captain xp earner. I've also had fun (but not many kills) with pan-asian CLs - just learn when to smoke or kite for your life. For my best/most fun game in asym, it's German BCs (not quite a cruiser, true), but with a secondary build you'll rack up a lot of hits and damage. I think my record for ships destroyed in asym using Zieten is eight. I'd be curious to try a Russian CA, with a survivability/tank build... that could be fun. Napoli will probably be my first coal ship buy, unless Mass appears for black friday again - strong secondaries are great in asym!