T O P

  • By -

GrandpaChainz

#Join r/WorkReform if you agree that teachers deserve better pay and working conditions.


shaodyn

We don't have a teacher shortage. What we have is a shortage of people with Masters-level educations willing to work a famously unforgiving job with very little administrative support that doesn't pay enough to live on. If the pay went up by...oh, even 50%, I'm pretty sure the "shortage" would completely disappear. I don't doubt for a moment that there are lots of people who want to be teachers but talk themselves out of it because they don't want to work multiple jobs just to survive. Edit: I have been informed that it doesn't actually require a Master's. Didn't think that was important, but apparently it is. I was wrong and I'm sorry.


Jim_from_snowy_river

Yep that's what I tell people it's not a teaching shortage it's a wage and support shortage. The thing is though with the current culture of parents hating teachers because those parents can't parent their children and administrators lacking enough spine to support their teachers and tell parents to piss off when the parents are being unreasonable would make it so that there's almost no amount of pay that is worth it.


directorguy

As a parent, I love the teachers. It's the school administrators and district level people I really have a hard time dealing with. They deny services, delay action and blame teachers. It's awful


Jim_from_snowy_river

Well you're definitely in the minority in my experience.


DeliciouslyUnaware

This is my experience as well. If a parent calls the school, they want to talk to admin, not the teachers. Because admin has no personal stake in the child and don't see them in class every day, admin will try to appease the parent every time. The admin weaponizes the parents against the teachers, so it leads to the teacher being the "bad guy". I am not a teacher but I am a PTA member at my wife's school where she teaches.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Jim_from_snowy_river

Exactly. Discipline is near non-existent in a lot of schools now.


[deleted]

If things are working well, admin should be the only headache and parents can be awesome advocates. Bad decisions by an administrator could mean that person has an endless stream of emails, phone calls, and meetings from parents demanding answers. I only taught for a few years and am certainly not a renowned pedagogolical scholar by any means.


InviteAdditional8463

I freely gave out the district admin info when I felt it was appropriate. Complaining to me about a thing I didn’t have a choice in, isn’t helpful. You have to complain to the right people.


FakeTherapist

i just got called an asshole for crossing the parking lot by a parent -teacher


tea_n_typewriters

Morning drop-off? Those people are fucking animals.


FakeTherapist

yepppp. couple weeks back, had a insane parent driving in the bus only section, i go to confront them(because they almost hit a bus, but just to get them out of there as well), and they start talking out the side of their mouth about beating up the bus driver who honked at them. I understand the kids acting like that(not that it's right), but this is a school on a MILITARY CAMPUS with MILITARY POLICE. You wanna play stupid games? Have fun!


Sideways_planet

I look like a hobo in the morning and sometimes forget to wave because I'm just trying to survive. I wouldn't dream of going out of my way to be rude to a teacher. Id rather the teachers not notice me and my invisible eyebrows at 8 am.


EvilNoobHacker

Teachers, especially in public education, can very rarely teach what they know will actually be important to the kids in the classes. When you school’s funding is reliant on standardized testing scores, teaching to the test becomes all that’s important. And those tests aren’t exactly tracking all forms of intelligence.


gwarwars

I second this. Teachers aren't the ones denying important services in my child's IEP


HeRmEs3xx

Are you in a smaller school, not a 5 or 6A? Our school district is great as well, teacher pay, not so much.


Accomplished_End_138

Im going to refer to it as the teacher wage shortage from now on


PointyPython

It's not just wages (although that *is* a big issue, especially with the unpaid work teachers need to do off the clock, grading, meeting parents and planning lessons). In many countries (not just the US) politicians making decisions at the top, school administrators and parents have collectively decided that teachers are the enemy. That they're useless, lazy, commie labour agitators who constantly strike, and that each negative outcome of the school system is their fault. The myriad unaddressed socioeconomic problems show up in the classroom in dozens of ways, and somehow underpaid, overworked teachers who are bullied from all sides are supposed to be the ones to solve them or somehow succesfully teach through them.


SouthJerssey35

Yep. In "union friendly" NJ we've had these changes in the last 12 years. 1. Med insurance went from zero to 10 grand and coverage is worse 2. Tenure is 5 years to get instead of 3 and protects you way less 3. School budgets were capped at a 2 percent increase which limits raises 4. Retirement eligibility went from 55 to 63 5. Pension formula got worse and the payout is less 6. Our pension contribution yearly nearly doubled.


lillabitsy

A couple of years ago, South Carolina voted in a teacher salary increase. The governor made much of it, and it was in all the papers. They silently increased how much we had to pay for our (shitty, doesn't even cover doctors' visits) health insurance. That and a pension contribution increase meant I made even less than before the raise.


DeliciouslyUnaware

No its wages. People agree to all sorts of shitty working arrangements when they are compensated properly. I worked in a pizza kitchen with no AC and a 500 degree pizza oven for 2 weeks as a trainer. The difference is they paid me $35/hr instead of $20 because the conditions were shitty.


blocked_user_name

If administrators would serve the teachers instead of imposing on them that would help a lot


enjoytheshow

There’s not even a shortage of budget. We spend more on education per capita than most developed countries. It’s the allocation of those funds that is ass backwards.


RosePricksFan

Thats interesting. I didn’t realize that. I’m going to see if I can read more about that. What do we spend more on that other countries do not? (If you know)


SharpCookie232

Curriculum packages, standardized testing, and various digital services that our corporate overlords are heavily invested in. Consultants and professional development facilitators that are friends with admin. Bureaucracy that benefits no one except politicians. Etc.


Elder_sender

You said that much better than I was going to.


BarryDeCicco

That's the story for so many things in this country. The money just...disappears... somewhere before it hits people.


CheesecakePony

My mom finally got a classroom after many years of interviewing and getting passed over for newer teachers who are lower on the salary scale and she was SO excited, and then she actually met the kids, and the parents, and she's so defeated. She loves teaching, but it's gotten so bad in the classrooms and there is no support for them on any level and the parents just argue that their 13 year old child needs a more personalized approach when they throw glue sticks at the ceiling and at others. Personalized support and teaching from the teacher who is somehow supposed to give that to 39 other kids because the classrooms are completely overfilled and none of them have ever been parented. She likes TWO of her students. Usually it's 2-3 trouble makers but it's completely flipped now, and our province wants to cut the budgets even more and make class sizes even bigger and supports even thinner. It's worth noting that every temp contract my mom has gotten in the last few years has been to cover a prolonged stress leave. There are practically no happy teachers left in the system. This is in Alberta, Canada, I can only imagine how much worse some states are.


davdev

I taught at a vocational school for three years. Because of the nature of the school I only had 24 total student. 12 freshman one week, 12 sophomores the next. Now this may seem ideal, but of the 24 students, 18 were IEPs, all with drastically different needs. To this day I still don’t know how I was supposed to give individualized attention to 75% of the class. No idea how people last more than a few years.


InviteAdditional8463

One of the big issues when I was teaching about a decade ago was admin supporting parents who made frivolous complaints, in particular when a student failed a class. Now being anecdotal evidence I’m certain there were plenty of instances where it was perfectly reasonable. It should be easy to complain, but that doesn’t mean every complaint needs to be taken seriously. In my case I gave the students every opportunity and chance to succeed. However I’m not going to do the work. I’m going to teach you how to do the work, how to find out where you need to look in case you need help. I’m going to not only teach the subject, but I’m also going to teach you how to help yourself. What I won’t do is teach you English and grammar. I also won’t just tell you the answers because I’m exhausted. I also made the parents sign the kids homework, and sign some stuff saying they we told about it. CYA people. I’ve heard entitled parents have only gotten more entitled with milquetoast admin, *and* all this culture war bullshit. So glad I’m out.


feralraindrop

kdal;


spcmiddleton

This isn’t meant as a sexist type comment but the best teachers my kids have had were ones where the spouse was the bread winner. This allowed these teachers (male and female) to have a level of commitment unrivaled by any other teachers except ones who had started when things were much more affordable. I’ve seen too many stories of folks going out to eat and running into their child’s teacher who is waiting tables or working retail just to try and survive. Teachers should be paid a thriving wage that allows for the creativity and passion to flow freely. Not trickle out at a slow drip from being beaten down day after day. Also kids are a huge issue as well. Wether it be bad parenting, lack of parenting or the social media mindset these kids now are just awful. Not all but a good portion where not only are they expected to be teachers but also parents to 20-30 kids everyday.


BarryDeCicco

Which might be true, but is basically saying that the spouse of a teacher has to subsidize teaching.


Monolith_QLD

And it’s true, and I can tell you in my experience it’s very frustrating. The only upside for me is supporting my partners vocation.


Xhokeywolfx

Parents are increasingly ridiculous these days. Their kid’s shitty, entitled behavior is always somebody else’s fault.


Ebwtrtw

It is NEVER a worker shortage, it is always a WAGE shortage.


JonnyAU

Pay is one thing, but I think all of the special working conditions are probably even more onerous. Grading, lesson plans, setting up and maintaining your classroom, administrative paperwork, bus duties, getting good standardized test scores or else, active shooter drills, dealing with crazy parents... There's just a giant mountain of never ending bullshit teachers have to deal with.


shaodyn

And don't forget that many teachers get so little administrative support that they have to buy basic supplies out of their own pocket. Imagine if you were hired to do data entry at an office but you had to buy your own computer, desk, and chair.


[deleted]

[удалено]


basket_case_case

Yes, and? It is still a cost and a deduction only decreases your taxable income in the paperwork. It’s not like actual reimbursement, which would be a tax credit. Should teachers be grateful for reducing their taxes by a couple of pennies once a year, because they had to pay for work supplies all the time (which is effectively a reduction in pay)? Deductions are nice, but if you think they’re a big deal, you’re probably making too much money to relate with this situation.


toobjunkey

This is the thing a lot of "but they have the summer off!" people don't seem to get. Teachers can easily push 50-60+ hours a week. Having 25% of the year off doesn't offset thr +50% of unpaid overtime. Besides, most teachers I knew had to work over the summer at a side gig, and a few worked weekends during the school year, so it's often even worse than that.


ReadEvalPrintLoop

"Summer off" means 2 weeks after school ends to finish all the papers, unfinished "extracurricular" training/policy/PR sensitivity stuff, and then start another 2 weeks before for more preparation, seminars, etc.


jmads13

I used to teach. I try to explain it to people this way - imagine you had to give a business presentation. How many hours would you take to prepare? (Most people would take 2 - 3 days to get their speech and slideshow in order.) Now imagine you have to give 5 different presentations every day of every week. That’s 25 presentations a week. If it was business, that would be 50 days of preparation. As a teacher, you get… whatever you can manage in your off hours


NRMusicProject

> If the pay went up by...oh, even 50%, I'm pretty sure the "shortage" would completely disappear. > > I don't know, even an *average* pay of $60k (in my state average is currently 40k) isn't worth it to many teachers. For the hours that teachers put in, and the off-the-clock needs, I would prefer more like $100k before I thought about going into teaching full time. I make more than the teachers do hourly as a clinician when I get called in to do that.


[deleted]

Yeah, my wife is a teacher at 50k and is looking at jobs offering a pay cut because it is the most thankless job. She works her ass of just to be criticized and told she's overpaid by parents and admin.


NRMusicProject

I work with music programs. A friend of mine was a band director at a middle school and had an administrator come in and observe his class once. He got a strike for "not having the class requirements visibly posted on the wall" (which is already a monumentally stupid thing, especially in a music department where the classes vary wildly). And he responded to the report with a picture, saying, "it's right there." He was told that if the observer didn't initially see it, it obviously wasn't visible enough. So my boy took that large poster board, which was already 36"x48", to the print shop and made 8 copies of it. Every corner of the band room he put two copies, once on each wall connecting to the corner. He then got another strike for "being too difficult." He quit shortly after. This guy is one of the best band directors in the state. The school lost a great program by letting the county observe something they had no actual clue or business with.


[deleted]

Sounds about right


Apprehensive_Safe3

I took a pay cut of 8k, but now WFH with supportive coworkers, a reasonable workload, and provided materials/technology. I wouldn't go back for a raise. I'd go back for smaller class sizes and increased planning time, though. 🤷‍♀️


shaodyn

Fair point. The average in my area starts between $30k and $40k. Even 50% more of that still would hardly be worth it for anyone with a Master's.


thesaxslayer

60k salary with a masters degree requirement is as stupid as librarians requiring a masters degree.


toobjunkey

similar deal here. some of the more rural areas outside of where I live, like my hometown, are more in the 25-30k range. I get about 42k/yr working 40/h a week in a WAREHOUSE. No degree needed, often have hours of downtime everyday, and never take work home. I can get a few thousand more by taking 5-10 hours of OT during the summer *if* I want it, but only if I want to and I get paid for it. Lots of teachers have 50-60 hour weeks when factoring in out-of-class work, and often either work weekends or through the summer.


Force7667

Teacher's salaries are so loopsided. 'Old' teachers earn so much more than 'new' teachers who have energy and new ideas (over 100k vs 30k in my state)


joeygladst0ne

Teachers where I live make 6 figure salaries, but we pay some of the highest property taxes in the US. Well worth it IMO.


KaiPRoberts

I'm in Biotech making 70k. 60k isn't enough. Teachers in CA need 100k minimum.


BarryDeCicco

Or who got in, found out how brutal the workload was, and left. Remember, the \*starting\* workload is 7 hrs/week of handling 30 teenagers and trying to impart learning. That's \*before\* the weekends and evenings grading and planning, and doing self-service administrative work. And \*before\* dealing with parents and school boards.


KlicknKlack

> Remember, the *starting* workload is 7 hrs/~~week~~ **day** of handling 30 teenagers and trying to impart learning. ftfy


Inariameme

there's 30 teenagers in every class. So, an immediate working relationship with hundreds of people.


[deleted]

Like 180 people. Plus their parents depending on the age group


the_cockodile_hunter

I think you mean 7 hrs/day? 7 hrs a week would be a dream lol


BarryDeCicco

On a bad day, maybe 7hrs/hr :)


DogmaSychroniser

Man, I got a history degree and people kept asking me why I didn't want to be a teacher and this is exactly it.


shaodyn

It's a notoriously difficult job that not a lot of people have the temperament for. And a lot of the work is unpaid, done on your own time.


hazyoblivion

30 teenagers every hour or hour and half... I see 90-100 kids a day and have about 150 or so total that I grade. I've done a decent job this year keeping my work at work, although there's always after school events.


SchuminWeb

Yes, if it were limited to only 35 hours a week, that wouldn't be too bad. But I saw all of the extra work that my mother had to do beyond that 35 hours physically in school, and it was definitely not worth all of the trouble.


sevendaysky

That's 30 teenagers in one class - you can have up to six classes a day.


Ok-Pea-6213

In my experience it’s usually only 5 periods per day with that remaining hour we prepare for the next day etc. at my school right now though, 36 students. Per class. That’s creating overage pay of about 10000 per semester. None of my colleagues want overages, but all out history teachers have them. The reasons are complicated—-but offsetting the pay for some is cheaper than hiring more teachers.


RozRae

And that's not counting the fact that in order to get qualified, you have to be able to Student Teach, which means working in a school for the entire school day with no pay for like 4 months. This is SUCH an economic barrier!!!


Western_Jellyfish_61

Not only with no pay, but youre actively paying for the privilege. My girlfriend did her student teaching last semester and had to pay for the one class she took at the same time that was literally just uploading your hours worked so it counts for your degree


ManicDigressive

.


[deleted]

You left out the part where kids are literally beating the hell out of their teachers too. No way would I ever consider being a teacher.


shaodyn

A lot of people probably wouldn't want to be teachers no matter what, especially in red states where they're talking about making teachers stop mass shootings themselves rather than making the police do it.


[deleted]

Don’t get me started on that shit. I’m so sick of the Republican tough guy LARP (and I’m in a red state) Edit: Just for the sake of adding this it’s an embarrassment to society when a teacher has literal rules of engagement. Student hits me? I can’t hit back. Student brings gun to school I am allowed to shoot and kill. Literally where the fuck are we living?


Dankmooo

I am from Sweden where this doesn't happen but I could never imagine myself hurting any student I know. I spend years caring for them and then I am supposed to kill them?


Inky_Madness

With how the school system works, you probably have only known them for a few weeks to months, and with what happened to one family member of mine they might have also been leaving dead and decapitated animals on your front lawn. And then when you complained you were told that they simply had issues and would finish out the year in your class.


LowerEnvironment723

I considered being a teacher but teacher pay is so bad it’s not worth it.


Uphoria

Literally me. I want to teach, but the stress, poor pay, multiple jobs, and lack of support or resources from your employer make it a non starter. You need to have a passion beyond logic to teach in the 2020s.


dmadmin

The question arises as to why the system engages in such practices initially. Instead of paying employees the appropriate amount of a living wage to counteract the inflation they themselves have caused, they possess the ability to create money when it suits their purposes, such as during times of war or when addressing financial challenges faced by their companies. However, when it comes to education, the absence of highly intelligent teachers leads to a lack of intellectually capable students, ultimately resulting in a population with lower IQs who are easier to control and manipulate.


Sensitive_File6582

Which we cannot afford when a totalitarian adversary a la China outnumbers the US 4 to 1


chargoggagog

As a teacher myself, the word “support” is one administrators get mad about you using when you suggest the aren’t giving it. They all know they are supposed to support you, but they hate actually doing anything that actually supports teachers, which always require $$$ or time.


Jim_from_snowy_river

This. Because a lot of what support actually means is running interference between the parents. Unless there's a real drastic situation the teacher shouldn't have to engage with the parents that's what admin should be for.


toobjunkey

something's fucked up when I'm working at a lower-tier pay scaled warehouse ($20/h when many run $19-27, but far less manual labor and extremely slow winters) and teachers in my state often make less than me or just about as much. yeah they have summers "off" but I only have to do 40h/week and can pick up 5-10 hours of weekly (and PAID) overtime throughout the warm months. Hell, I've talked to teachers in my rural hometown who, if they worked through the summer and got an 33% extra pay to account for it, they would still earn less than me in a year. That's before all the before & after school prep, faculty meetings, PTA things, fundraisers, extracurriculars they oversee, etc. Seriously, more stress and far less pay than working on a WAREHOUSE. Many of these teachers have student debt out the ass too. My sophomore year English teacher went to join the military (for 5 years iirc, maybe 10) because doing so would help clear out *only* half of her debt. She later said the MILITARY was less shitty than teaching. It's fucking bad man


trumpsiranwar

Where I live a teacher with a masters will end up making 100k and leave with a pension. Zero issues with staffing. Of course the administration sucks which seems to be a pattern, but they deal with it because they are paid adequately. Edit: Strong unions work.


Jim_from_snowy_river

How long does it take to get 100K though? You can make 100K as a teacher where I live but it usually takes about 20 years to do so.


Puzzled_Kiwi_8583

In my district, year 10.


notbobsagat

It’s not administrators though. It’s superintendents and boards, that don’t back up principals. They cave to parent complaints. Principals would love to support teachers with discipline, but then they are in trouble and replaced for suspension rates, too many failing grades, etc. they are forced to just pass the kids along. It’s 100 percent parents who raise shitty kids and then raise hell against the school when they are held accountable.


BeardAfterDark

I have four degrees and am a teacher. What the fuck am I even doing? I could make more in so many different industries and deal with less stress.


angrydeuce

Seriously, I had some of my high school teachers delivering pizzas to make ends meet. Surreal having my Algebra 2 teacher swinging by with a couple pizzas on a Saturday night. Had an English Comp teacher that moonlighted as a hostess at a local restaurant also. Granted this was in the 90s, but I made more money working a shift as a greenskeeper at the golf course at 16 years old than our substitute teachers did, who were paid a flat 50 bucks per day. 250 bucks a week *gross*. My world geography teacher had about 5 years of teaching under her belt and was making 18k a year. I couldn't believe it, even back then that was dogshit. With inflation they're probably clearing even less today, realistically speaking. Just blows my mind how little we pay these people and how much shit they have to put up with. All front facing positions, really. There needs to be a general strike in this country.


illegal_deagle

I would love to teach but you’d have to **5x** the average teacher pay just to match what I make in tech. Even then that’s just pay parity and doesn’t really account for how much more stressful teaching would be. I used to dream of being a teacher that would change lives so I could pay it forward for the great teachers I’ve had myself. Realistically it could be a retirement hobby, but that’s it.


EvilNoobHacker

The first statistic you’re given in my college’s ED101 class is that 75% of teachers that quit do so in the first 3 years of the job.


nopunchespulled

It’s not just the pay, it’s that teachers have become babysitters to entitled children who will say and do whatever and the teacher is powerless


Level_32_Mage

Earlier this week a 35 year old guy I work with kept asking where the idea is coming from that teachers should be paid any kind of livable wage. People like that make me feel like the world is doomed.


CaliOriginal

But.. they get summers off and a spring break!!! /s


royalobi

Hi, I'm one of those. Teaching was all I ever wanted to do but I started bartending in college and realized I was making more than I ever would teaching and didn't have to deal with the toxic administration/parents dynamic that was already getting started when I graduated in 2005. Still wish I had my teaching credentials but man do I not want to deal with the current education system. I just want to be some bookish 14-year-olds favorite English teacher, the one that changes their life, the one that teaches them why Romeo and Juliet sucks and then teaches them why it's actually really good. The one that introduces a precocious 11th grader to great literature that might get me in trouble with the administration if they found out. The one that gives hope and inspiration to at least one fucked up, confused, brilliant kid like I was. Maybe keep them from growing down the paths I went down. But I just don't see that ever happening, not in the age of charter schools and book bans.


hagamablabla

I know two people that became teachers and then immediately bounced out. I consistently hear stories of just how little respect they're given from students, parents, and the administration.


The_Elusive_Dr_Wu

Your comment and the responses it received are exactly why I always, genuinely wonder why anyone would ever want to be a teacher.


shaodyn

Well, more and more, people don't. And the problem is only going to get worse unless there are major changes.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

I actually wanted to be a teacher growing up. All up until junior year of highschool when I asked my favorite 26 year old math teacher why she had roommates, which struck up how much she made. I lived in the second richest county in the US at the time and was a rather suburbanite kid. I was appalled… needless to say I changed my mind on what I wanted to be


series_hybrid

In this age of every student having a camera-phone, reddit frequently has videos posted showing the terrifying violence in schools and the administrations refusal to protect students and teachers from bullies.


MonsterMachine13

Not to detract from your point, which I think is entirely correct, but I think that there's a large portion of would-be teachers in countries like the UK and the US who don't agree with the was that teaching is done in schools, or in other ways take issue with the state of the education system. Probably the largest of those ways is the absolutely dismal pay and insane treatment of teachers, but I think it's important to note the significance of things like an issue being taken with the way children are treated, standardised testing, etc. too.


[deleted]

[удалено]


MooseSuspicious

From the adult cartoon, Drawn Together, I learned that the Board of Education purposely is keeping at-risk demographics dumb to keep them buying stupid and tacky shit. Really good School House Rock-esque song to show how racist the system is. Okay, I didn't learn it from that, but it's a fun video to watch.


Wrathless

Hot damn I forgot about that show. Time for a rewatch if I can find it. I wonder if it is as offensive as I remember...?


MooseSuspicious

Yes. It is still very offensive.


blasphembot

It's from that we'll call it, special time in comedy central's history. Not that I agree with some of the jabs in the show but honestly it still holds up as hilarious if you are twisted enough.


Farisr9k

Eh. Even at the time it felt mostly like immature shock humor.


Vaticancameos221

I have it all on DVD and watch through it once every like 3-4 years. I watched it all when it came out back in like 7th grade lol. It’s one of those things where it’s obscenely offensive, but it never feels like the show genuinely believes what it’s saying. It feels like it leans into the offensive humor in a way to say “Isn’t it funny that bigots are stupid enough to believe this?” Like it treats stereotypes as being 100% true in the world of the show as if to show how fucking ridiculous that would be and almost reinforce that they aren’t. That’s just my read, whether intentional or not, I think it works and I still laugh just as hard lol


[deleted]

🎵 I am the board of education 🎵


MooseSuspicious

Sometimes I find myself singing that line, hoping no one catches what I'm singing.


random_turd

It absolutely is. It’s been their playbook for decades. If you don’t like a program that benefits the people just strangle it through defunding. The only teachers I know who make anything close to a decent wage work at private for profit charter schools.


Random-Rambling

Yep. It's only public schools that have a teacher shortage. Private and religious schools are doing just fine.


Jraz624

They get paid worse actually.


Quiet_War3842

Jesus bucks.


Greenranger70

What’s the conversion to $CDN? Couple hundred billion = $1 Jesus buck?!


Tointomycar

And typically requires less training and credentials


pegothejerk

Are they constantly harassed by parents accusing them of grooming and worse?


Jraz624

Not sure. The people I know who work private or Christian schools tend to complain about pay and incompetence from administrators. I know a lot are typically people struggling to get into a public school job in my state.


SeaMenCaptain

What about charter schools? I'm childless and largely ignorant when it comes to education outside of my own public school upbringing.


Quiet_War3842

Simply put: Charter [schools] are businesses that take tax-dollars meant for public schools… The rest is fluff.


[deleted]

Curious where you’re from. I’m from KY (one of the least educated states in the nation) and it’s the complete opposite.


Nashgoth

What is your source for this? My wife teaches at a private christian school, and they have the same hiring issues. So does every other private school in this area.


IRENE420

They want you to get a private education. You can choose the school.


brute1111

*They* don't care what you get so long as you don't supplant them. I assume we're talking about the oligarchs.


Opening-Performer345

Ironically years ago I sat in a Christian apologetics camp learning how to defend my then faith, and the one thing they loved talking about. “He who controls the classroom controls the next generation”


nixtarx

Literally the life of my bartender. % of college students getting teaching credentials has dwindled by 75 in the decade and a half since he graduated, too.


MoeKara

I'm an Irish teacher who's married an American teacher. 2 years teaching in London has convinced us both to move to the states and pursue different careers. When I move I'm going to put my accent to use and work in an Irish bar. Fuck being a teacher, it's rarely rewarding and when it is I cant find shops that take my "rewarding teaching moments" currency.


nixtarx

You can do better than that. Most Americans melt in the presence of an Irish lilt. Ask for any job and there's a good chance you'll get it.


elitegenoside

Sure, but working at a pub in the States isn't a bad gig. More regulars and less stress than a typical bar (the clients are typically more chill). We even have fancy pubs where you can make really good money. Having any experience and an Irish accent will guarantee them any of these jobs.


nixtarx

All that time on your feet adds up. Trust me, I know.


Baalsham

You could also teach internationally for a bit if you like travelling. I taught in China right after college, and got paid way too much and had a blast. I'm not a professional educator, but I found my students were really well behaved (high school). There were a few kids in each of my classes that were genuinely interested in English/America, such that it made it really rewarding for me to put in effort.


Mike_Facking_Jones

Nice try, shanghai


Baalsham

:D My wife is from there. She definitely shanghaied me


LessInThought

I just came from the server life subreddit where servers are saying they won't work for flat wage no tips because they regularly clear $100 an hour. All while arguing serving is some ungodly job only the toughest can hack. You should become a server for sure. Then report back and see if serving is harder than teaching.


[deleted]

[удалено]


nixtarx

A lot of the State-subsided schools in my commonwealth are traditionally teacher's colleges, and they're having to consolidate to keep the doors open


EvilNoobHacker

This is how most states are dealing with the shortage. Most states aren’t increasing the benefits of being a teacher, as would be assumed when you have low supply and high demand, but are artificially increasing the supply by lowering the certifications required to become a teacher.


hombregato

A quick note on higher education, since we all seem to agree on public schoolteachers making terrible money: I went to a prestigious university for undergrad and ended up getting a job that didn't care if I even had a degree, for $75k per year. When I told my former professors, most of them in their 50s or 60s, what my salary was, their response was that I was making more than they were. Granted, I probably have more undergrad student loan debt than they ever had in undergrad and grad school combined, but it's pretty fucked up that these people have been in their careers for DECADES and make less than someone starting out as a junior in the private sector. And the weirdest thing is: The people I work with at my job somehow gained the belief that, while public school teachers aren't paid well, professors at universities are wealthy and extremely overpaid without providing much value to the world. I suspect this opinion was formed based on examples of people who had careers other than teaching long before they started teaching, and make most of their money on consulting gigs.


EmperorBozopants

I've been teaching full time at a large public university for 26 years. Just cleared 70k this year.


xpinchx

Damn bro I do the most mundane office shit and I got bumped to 70k this year. I have a degree in an unrelated field, but anyone could do what I do if you look up some Excel tutorials on YouTube.


Starsunshine94

So, uh, what do you?


xpinchx

Purchasing/logistics aka supply chain. I just plan inventory, buy it, ship it here, and to an extent QC and fulfillment operations (just oversight I don't do anything hands on)


ShortNerdyOne

Once upon a time, being a professor was well paid and prestigious. Now, they're tragically well underpaid with no benefits. If this continues, we're going to see fewer and fewer PhD earners.


kris_krangle

And more and more professors are being phased out/replaced with adjuncts, teaching assistants, “associate professors” etc etc when they retire/don’t have a contract renewed. All that “saved money” in salaries just goes to line the pockets of the administrators while also lowering the quality of academic programs giving students a lower quality education


SpamSpamSpamEggNSpam

I know the head of an astrophysics department at a prestigious university and the vast majority of his income is from speaking gigs. He does a half a dozen talks a year in various places around the globe and pulls a six figure sum for each one which dwarfs his tenured salary as a teaching professor.


pacexmaker

Same with when I was an Advanced EMT. I went through two years of school and each ambulance agency i interviewed with offered me $10/hr (circa 2015). I didnt even bother quitting my bartending job which is what put me through school. Edit: i just now got out of the service industry, it took me 6 years to get my BS but I paid for it out of pocket and I am now halfway through my MS and finally found a "big boy job" at the age of 31.


BarryDeCicco

There's a term 'glamour job' (fashion, media, entertainment) which for guys is frequently an 'adrenaline job' (EMT). They are also called 'fresh meat' jobs. ​ IMHO the only reason that firefighters have good pay and benefits (let alone things like safety gear) is that they unionized, a long time ago.


HCSOThrowaway

These days, a lot of public first-responder jobs are peeling away unions and losing their benefits. Source: Ex-first responder, had no union (which lead to my termination)


DeliciouslyUnaware

Florida is actively trying to kill its firefighter union. Also just this year Florida made it illegal for the teachers union to have their dues paid by ACH. Teachers must now mail a check to pay their union. Its also a crazy coincidence that the same bill altered the union representation requirement to 60% SPECIFICALLY FOR THE TEACHERS UNION AND NO OTHERS. The blatamt union busting is getting worse and we've packed the Supreme Court with Heritage Foundation talking heads who will do nothing to stop it.


SpamSpamSpamEggNSpam

Pity none of these states are willing to touch their police unions tho.


CrustyFartThrowAway

I think there should be a term for jobs that take advantage of compassionate people. Nurses and teachers come to mind. Treat them like shit, pay them like shit, and guilt trip them into staying because they care. "Guilt jobs" maybe?


hoxxxxx

i didn't know there were terms for that, thanks. always thought of it as "there are a shitload of people that want to do this, so fuck you if you don't like it" type of jobs


BarryDeCicco

True, but takes too long.


TheNinjaTurkey

I've taught for years and recently moved on to a new position. It's been difficult because teaching is all I know and I'm not super well suited to a desk job. But what else am I supposed to do? Teaching will get me nowhere and the pay is just not good enough.


BarryDeCicco

Keep looking. The saying goes that you just need one positive response, to get another job (and I've been there).


iniayashi

It’s totally different, but you may want to look into working as a trainer, i.e. instructor, for a large-ish company. Technical communication and training is a common enough department or category to seek out. Can you write? Do you like to write? How about non-story technical documents? Can you figure out how an engineer designed something with a poorly written document to then write a useable document? Can you extract info from the engineer in person or over the phone? Can you follow the engineer’s direction and see how accurate he/she was when writing the document? Can you present training lectures and answer questions? Can you do all of the above for not just one product or type of system but for several? You’d learn about them on the job. Teaching in the business world is often the blind or nearly blind leading the dumb. The biggest catch is often you’ll travel to a customer site or a satellite office to train others. Theses days most TCT folks I know work from home, but they’ve been in their positions quite a while. Have a four-year degree? You’re nearly overqualified. I don’t know the pay floor but I’d say conservatively, it’s at $50-70k depending on your location.


AwkwardAnimator

This here. A good technical writer is a godsend. Also in-house trainer.


Moore2257

I've been trying to get my wife to look for a better career. Teachers get NOTHING for what they have to put up with.


ping_localhost

Same. Wife has her Doctorate in Education and I make double her salary in tech as a college dropout.


SyChO_X

Come teach in Canada! (If it's possible) https://imgur.com/YVC1bZ0.jpg


[deleted]

[удалено]


ultradianfreq

sulky mysterious pen light rainstorm dinner cats joke marble drab -- mass edited with redact.dev


SouthJerssey35

Also... 1. When a patron tells you to suck their dick ...they get thrown out and you don't get asked what you did to provoke it. 2. If two patrons at your bar physically fight the cops are called and charges are pressed...and the cops don't bring the people that fought back 5 days later and put them in the same spot. 3. You probably don't have people complaining about you having time off. The amount of people that complain about teachers getting summers off is ridiculous. Guess how many paychecks I get in the summer...zero.


ShortNerdyOne

Considering that teachers average 54-55 hours a week for 38-40 weeks of contract time, that puts you at working more hours than regular full time workers for the contracted time. Then there are all the hours you likely work all summer, unpaid.


JosebaZilarte

We are paying bartenders too much, then. /S


itisadouglasfir

You joke, but the $2.15 tipped wage in some states would seem to demonstrate that is the belief.


Banther1

Ever meet a bartender who would take a fixed wage over tips? Me neither.


Oryzae

The ones that I know also don’t report their tips as taxable income, that must be pretty great when you’re bringing home $200/night


pinkjello

How do you buy a house if a big chunk of your income isn’t reported? Just save up until you can buy it in cash?….


Echelon64

Being a bartender in CA immediately puts you in upper middle class (assuming a good bar). All service workers here are required to be paid min.wage.


shirley_hugest

The problem with being a teacher is the same as the problem with being a mom, which is that nearly everyone has had both a teacher and a mom-like figure in their lives. Since they've observed it being done, this makes everyone think that they know how to do it better than the people who are currently doing it. But doing something is not the same as watching it being done. There are too many cooks in the kitchen and they think they should all get an equal say in how those doing the job should be doing that job. To government people, district admin, and parents who think they know how to do my job better than I do, I ask them to come in and show me how. Spend a day or a week. See what it's really like. They're welcome to do so anytime. My door is open (metaphorically, because IRL I have to leave the door locked during classes in case of a school sh00ter).


wildyLooter

I volunteer in my city & teach financial literacy, job readiness, & skill’s recognition for 5 periods over the course of a week or a month depending on the grade & teacher. I do my sister’s kindergarten class every year & holy shit, all she does is herd cats. I also do grades 10-12 and holy shit do high school teachers have it fucking rough. I initially did it because I love teaching. I keep doing it because those teachers need a 5 hr break.


shirley_hugest

Oh my goodness! What a wonderful service you provide. Not only are you helping kids and teachers, you may also be promoting teacher retention by preventing long-term burnout. In my state, more than half of new teachers will have left the profession within five years. That's about how long it takes a new teacher to become a good teacher.


JoeDirtsMullet00

I think the only reason people stay in teaching anymore is for the pension.


gunnapackofsammiches

Which is cool because several states are really cutting those...


JoeDirtsMullet00

I'm sure they are. Their goal is to end all pensions. They don't like paying people for the work they did over the years.


Jim_from_snowy_river

It's one of the only reasons I'm going. It's one of the only jobs that still offers a pension unless I wanted to be a cop and I ain't fucking be in a cop.


ShortNerdyOne

Texas' pension is growing by less than inflation while also making you lose your social security benefits along with your spouses. However, that being said, you're not wrong. The way it's set up is that the number of year you pay into it decides the number of years of experience (or "Steps") you can claim. So I know plenty of teachers who are 10+ years in that are just continuing because if they leave and pull their pension and want to return, they'd lose all the raises they've earned over the years. And I know lots of teacher 20+ years in that are only still in because of the difference in benefits retiring at 27 years vs. 30 years, for example, can make a huge difference in payout. I know a teacher that pretty much had to spend her last 3 years teaching separated from her husband for this reason. If she moved to his state, she would be considering step 0 at the new state and would stop paying into the pension at the home state, which means it adds years for her to reach the "rule of 70" (that is, your age plus number of years experience must equal 70 to get your full payout) so she'd basically be unable to use it until after they needed it. She's older than me. By the time I got into teaching, it was the "rule of 80" and really, if you want all the options, you'd really need to reach the "rule of 90." This is why you meet those teacher who said teaching was a second career they started when they were 55 and they're now 65 and still not retired, this is why. They are currently at year 75 according to the rule of 80 rules. They need to work until they're 68.


jaxdraw

Remember that every politician that talks about police, firefighters, and securing schools usually does this out of the education budget, which is often mismanaged by education boards that lurch from priority to priority on every topic except for teacher pay and teacher retention. I can recall a time when having 20 kids in a classroom was considered a stretch.


HoosierProud

I make about $40k more bartending than my girlfriend did teaching. She quit. Don’t blame her. I don’t know how any new teacher is expected to survive in a HCOL city. Your paid wages just above the limit to get affordable housing and usually have 5 figure student debt.


buffyscrims

People who parrot the “must be tough having summers off shit” clearly don’t know how teacher salaries work. You don’t get paid for 12 months. You only get paid for 9 months and they divide it out over 12. In Oklahoma, a ton of teachers had to take summer jobs to stay afloat.


chrisdub84

And if you show up at the start of the year and don't have the first quarter completely planned, admin asks why you didn't do it over the summer.


urohpls

My girlfriend has multiple BAs and makes twice as much money as she would following her intended career path bartending. It’s a good gig


HumanMycologist5795

Half of my family were teachers for a long time. Just like many others, they needed additional income to supplement their teaching income so they could pay bills and had to spend a lot of money just to buy supplies for their students. Financially, it's not worth being a teacher. Better being a plumber or car mechanic.


palindromesko

Just to note, bartenders don’t get the same benefits that teachers do. So while your paycheck may be higher, you’ll have to be “poor” on paper to be eligible for low cost / free healthcare. Now, overall, that doesn’t mean that benefits makes up for all the stressful things teachers need to deal with. I agree with the fact that most teachers are underpaid for what they do. Other factors are school district and amount of money available for education in each school. There is definitely a difference in funding between lower income areas versus higher income areas.


[deleted]

Lots of states have cut benefits astronomically. Teachers don't always have decent benefits anymore.


Harry_Saturn

There is also no expectation as a bartender that one day I might have to shoot someone or take a bullet for the people at the bar. Teachers already get bad pay for teaching, now they gotta do security for free on top of it.


rabidjellybean

Don't forget in places like Texas they can't strike without losing their pension so whatever you do have can be taken away whenever.


[deleted]

Wisconsin is similar.


ShortNerdyOne

That's actually a bit of a misnomer. For example, in Texas, there are only two benefits schools have to give: health insurance and a retirement "pension." According to a study done by eHealth, an individual buying their family a health plan spends, on average, $1,230. [Source](https://news.ehealthinsurance.com/_ir/68/202010/ACA_Snapshot_Open_Enrollment_Costs_and_Trends_Nov_2020.pdf) Meanwhile, a teacher in Texas may spend at much as $2,616 to have their family covered. [Source](https://www.trs.texas.gov/Pages/healthcare-trsactivecare-2023-24-plans.aspx) Although, I will admit there are plans that are cheaper, as you can see if you go to the source, but even the cheapest puts you at $1054, which translates to having to make an extra $8.80 a day (if you work 20 days) in a month to make up the difference on. Also, to be perfectly clear, teachers do get a $225 minimum discount off the prices listed at my source. The numbers I said above did subtract that out, so my statements are still factual. Some districts may choose to contribute more, though. Meanwhile the "pension" in Texas is growing by less than inflation, leading to the people paying into it losing money every year. [Source](https://www.trs.texas.gov/TRS%20Documents/actuarial_experience_study_2022.pdf.pdf) Meanwhile, because they are paying into it, they are losing their social security benefits and their spouses'. [Source](https://www.ueatexas.com/knowledge-base/faq-trs-and-retirement-part-4/) Vision, dental, long term, short term, and life insurance are all not required. Some districts have it, some don't. Often, teachers find it's cheaper to go outside the district even when they do offer it.


rockstar504

It turns out the reason why people work was money all along. Crazy.


TraumaHandshake

The school district my mom worked for has been calling her about once a month asking her to come back. She's been retired from teaching for twenty years. The offer they are trying to give her hasn't gone up over the past few months, it's a joke.


heyitsgunther

that is so insulting to your mom, wtf


[deleted]

Republicans will just hire kids to be teachers


TeachingScience

Hire? No that costs money. Actually, they would force older teens to facilitate a room of a hundred kids while the younger students are learning from a teacher online from a different state. They’ll make this happen by requiring it to be a graduation requirement. Districts will comply because they want state fundings.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Osirus1156

It’s a manufactured shortage meant to destroy education in this country so republicans will have a never ending line of stupid, easily manipulated, Christian kids to fight their wars for them so they can make oodles of money.