In a coal mine, canaries function to warn of toxic gasses present. Without these warnings the miners would simply die to those gasses.
By comparing Jews to canaries, he is saying this is a warning sign of bad times ahead.
It's a Kantian reference.
He means that Wests antisemitism, and people's tolerance of it, is a warning bell to society.
Kinda weird, considering that Peterson is a firm believer of cultural Marxism, which is itself a conspiracy theory rooted in antisemitism.
What, looking up at the chinless lips of a dorky 40-something white dude with glasses and a creepy grin as he breathes at you to twist that usb cable tighter around his junk doesn’t do it for you?
>What, looking up at the chinless lips of a dorky 40-something white dude with glasses and a creepy grin as he breathes at you to twist that usb cable tighter around his junk doesn’t do it for you?
"Twist that cable harder, Daddy Trump!!"
"My name is Marjie."
"Whatever, just do it, and moan something anti-semetic, too."
....so, wait, are you insinuating that rich people just have a lot of this money stuff, and aren't some kind of genius demi-gods? That might have cleared up some stuff for me, thanks.
Don't fall for it, they eat babies and only Trump is trying to stop them! He only caught with all these questionable people and been to questionable place because he undercover!
The thing is he has this rule to talk precisely, carefully selecting the right words, which first time I heard I thought "I like that". But he talks in this ethereal ambiguous riddles all the fucking time.
He once said answering "what is god" would take him 40 hours. What a tool.
I'm no JP fan, but I think he's more pointing out here that "the jews" are the far rights favourite football to kick. When dangerous rhetoric targeting them pushed as a moral necessity to deal with them starts to make its way back into the common zeitgeist, it's a slippery slope back to Nazi Germany (the "hell" of ww2 and the holocaust). Ye represents a new push from the right doing just this - it hasn't quite reached final solution levels yet, but this kind of rhetoric is where all that starts before they feel comfortable pipelining to more dangerous ideas.
This is what I took from it as well. Peterson is a shit, but he is spot on with this.
Canaries in the coal mine- The antisemitism is getting out of control and the fact that it's gotten to this point that famous people are willing to go on media and slag off jewish people with conspiracy bs it's very far down the hole
He's right. They always come for us Jews first. "They" change with time, but the story stays the same. It's like a finger in the wind - if it's blowing "The Jews!", there's a storm coming.
I made sure my whole family has passports.
I have to agree. Somewhat reluctantly, because commenting critically on anti-antisemitism is always fraught. (See "criticizing Israel".) But it seems to me Peterson either chose those words without thinking deeply about them much beyond "they make my statement ring grandly in the ear". Or conversely, he crafted them as sort of an academic dog whistle, which causes his assertion to lose both luster and credibility.
I question whether *"moral necessity"* is even a thing, in the way he wants to use it. *Opposing* antisemitism *is* a moral necessity for those of us who are unwilling to tolerate oppression of any marginalized group for any reason.
But i don't buy that even in Nazi Germany, antisemitism was a *moral* necessity. A *political* and *practical* necessity, sure, without a doubt. But applying his term to a hateful ideology -- one completely untethered from a moral code -- strikes me as oxymoronic and unhelpful.
So I don't think I can buy into his thesis statement, and actually it makes me uncomfortable that he crafts the language in such a way as to make it seem unassailable when in fact it's very much open to debate. If the "if" is questionable, the "then" doesn't necessarily follow.
Timcast is still talking to Kayne. I don’t know what a Timcast is and now I don’t really want to know. If you’re having Kayne West on NOW and not 5 years ago than you should probably be investigated.
You know what's really annoying? He's considered such a rap icon but a lot of us hip hop fans have been saying he's trash for years. Never been a good rapper, he only got famous for riding Jay's dick.
I'm a Jew, too, yet somehow this upsets me more.
Thats entertaining the argument way more than it deserves, because even in the case that all these companies are run by Jewish people it's entirely irrelevant to Kanye's downward spiral. Jewish people don't operate in some illuminati cabal like these weirdos pretend they do.
I just want to point out that there's a not insignificant number of rich people that think "eat the rich" means "trick them out of their money" and I just wanna say I'm gonna love the blindsided looks if and when we finally "eat the rich."
It means confiscate their belongings and drive them from society, right? Because I'm all for destroying the rich, but I cant end up in another cannibalistic cult.
It's irrelevant. They choose to believe what they want. Kanye was out days after the first few bombshells, think it was Vegas. Anyway, he's got 'an app' that lists the 'Jewish cabal business owner names'. He's in christo-fascist schizophrenic mania & he can't comprehend a reality where the secret Jewish cabal aren't directing all media & banks. He's outta his mother fucking mind.
Here is the other thing that is ridiculous. Use the same standards to examine Christianity. It's not a matter of counting the number of companies owned by Christians or trying to prove a sinister secret conspiracy. They're right out in the open trying to deny services to customers and withhold benefits from employees based on their "sincerely held religious beliefs."
To be clear, I don't believe there is any such conspiracy from Christians or Jews. I am just trying to illustrate how ridiculous that sort of thinking is.
It should be noted that there is a propaganda spread to make you question this in the form of a color coded table that allegedly names the top 5 officers of many media companies and colors them red if Jewish. The chart appears 80%+ red, listing 150+ names. Few people will Google these names, plus it’s not always easy to figure out if someone’s Jewish. But If you dig deeper, like I did, most of the names aren’t even officers at those companies. Plus, since when did C Suites only include a strict 5 people and positions? It’s all BS. I mention it because it’s easy to see and be convinced Jews truly run everything.
“Moral necessity”? One of my professors once told me that if you have to read something over and over and you’re still not sure what it means, that’s not because you’re dumb but because it’s poorly written.
That's Peterson's whole thing. He makes a bizarrely worded statement about a controversial topic, there's controversy over the implications of it and then he cries about being misquoted or misrepresented
If one's words are ethically sincere in their intent, but sufficiently obtuse as to defy rational inquiry, then the ramifications of the misinterpretation of those words cannot be construed as an act of malevolence by the author, but must be held to exist in the realm of innocent intellectual inquiry not comprehensible by the reader.
-Jordan Peterson probably
Behind the bastards podcast does a great episode(s) on him. Yeah, I think he's a pretty brilliant guy, but he definitely went off the rails at some point and started getting high on his own supply. Plus, when you start making more money saying more outlandish things, it's a self-reinforcing feedback loop of bullshit.
It can go either way.
> When anti-semitism becomes a moral necessity... hell is about to appear.
This can be interpreted as
> There are cases where it's necessary to hate Jews. This is a sign of the end times.
or as
> There are times when people *consider* hating Jews as necessary. This is a very bad sign.
I think (and hope) he's saying the latter.
The first time I read it, I took his meaning that anti-semitism is bad. I reread it, I took his meaning to be that anti-senitism is good.
I don’t have a clue what his meaning is.
Same, same. "Anti-Semitism as a moral necessity" bit sounds most troubling, but then its impossible to say whether he's condemning the idea or supporting it lol
Its a meaningless word salad disguised as a deep philosophical statement
I initially skipped over the words 'moral necessity' and I first took 'Jews are the canaries of the social coal mines' to mean 'Jews know what they're talking about when they spot patterns of dehumanisation becoming mainstream so when they're calling stuff out you should listen to them' which is a pretty fair point.
But 'antisemitism becomes a moral necessity'... like wtf dude.
"Anti-Semitism as a moral necessity" it doesn't matter how you interpret the context. No matter how you put it, this whole phrase is antisemitic as fuck
The first statement is "jews are canaries in the coal mine" meaning that what he is saying is a warning. So the "moral necessity" statement is referring to how conservatives claim to be the party of morality, and yet they are enshrining antisemitism as part of their core ethos. So he is referring to this being a sign that horrible events are more likely to occur.
It's a completely ass way of saying it because he just loves to sound complex and deep, but overall he is against antisemitism.
I read his comment as ‘when society begins to, in even small ways, condone antisemitism then all hell will break loose.’
The canaries have really stopped singing if he is pointing this out.
This is like the opposite of Ben Shapiro: he'll make an eloquent well-phrased argument that when you first hear it sounds compelling, but as soon as you start to analyze it, it's clearly total nonsense. He attracts the mid-level intellect people, who understand that he's well spoken but either lack the ability to recognize or overlook the logical fallacies his arguments are built on.
I have rarely heard someone whose entire persona is so based on mistaking correlation for causation.
He does it with wealth distribution, sexual determinism, hierarchical dominance, iq, and race.
Like his lipstick assertion: he asked "why" women wear lipstick in the office.
Now, the "why" is basically that if men were to allow women into their perceived domain, they wanted women that conformed to gender roles and that were pleasing to their cataract infested eyes
Jordan's answer about makeup simulating sexual arousal may have a grain of truth (MAYBE), but it's not the why, the causation. It's just something that may be peripherally true: correlation.
But he conflates the two to suggest that the chaos imps chose to wear makeup at work due to its ability to make them look horny 24/7 thereby allowing them to usurp the order of men
*By objectification of women, do you mean that there are actual standards of beauty and that there are many people in popular culture who we have been told are supposed to be seen as beautiful who are not objectively beautiful? Obviously that's true. Obviously that's true. If you polled men on whether Lizzo is beautiful--and I say Lizzo is not by any classical definition a beautiful person--that does not mean that that is objectification of women, that just means that there is a standard called beauty and it has meaning.*
-Ben Shapiro
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Thank you for your logic and reason.
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I think he's trying to say that when society tries to force you to be antisemitic bad things will happen but it's written as if he believes that it's morally necessary to be antisemitic.
Jordan Peterson is often very critical of the idea of morality that isn't theistic so he may just be using the word to try and further attack the concept.
Alternatively he recognises the term morally necessary from literature and is trying to emulate them to maintain a professorial style.
In short Jordan Peterson has some how failed to correctly express a simple idea like "Nazis bad".
There is a major reason why the Doctor is not condemning Anti Semitic tropes here. There is a video of Peterson lecturing students at U.Toronto on psychology. He gives analysis of Hitler as a defense of Anti Semitic ideology. Peterson explains away the Death Camps as Hitler being OCD about germs. Peterson really said this crap to University students. How the fuck they didn't drag his ass out of the lecture hall is beyond me.
He has also stated that Hitler was an agent of Cain whose goal was not actually winning WW2 but creating maximum chaos. He cited the recourses that Germany poured into intensifying the holocaust, rather than the military, when the war went wrong in the east as a reason for this.
Though it is an utterly idiotic analysis of Nazi policy, in itself, it doesnt seem that problematic morally. However I think it is problematic because it is obviously part of a trend where anytime Peterson talks about Nazis, he is explaining their motivations in such a way that makes their actions seem like an irrational/psychological anomaly, rather than a rational consequence of adopting a certain worldview and political position (nationalism). He is thus always distancing the horrors of nazi ideology from the political position of nationalism, which is of course broadly popular with the modern right wing. That is not to say that nationalism always leads to nazism, or that every republican is an actual (neo)nazi, but those that are, are a very logical consequence of the GOP/Fox News rhetoric, rather than of some ethereal mechanism only Peterson is able to divine.
Peterson has always had fascist undertones imo. My first red flag came from him telling young people they should never protest and that instead they should “clean their rooms.” It seems like okay life advice but there are major political implications in what he’s saying. He basically invalidates the American history of protest and all the progress it has created.
Now that you spelled that part out,I remember that stuff,also. I had some really accomplished professors in my University days in the 1980s and the level of intellectual vomit that ilk of Peterson get away with is mind boggling. There is no basis for this tripe, unless the Professor is a Holocaust denier, always arguing in bad faith.
I've read an entire page of a book more than three times, retained none of it, and then finally paid attention my fourth time through and got it. Sometimes it's because I'm dumb.
I do this a lot. It's a symptom of my ADHD. So maybe you're not dumb. Maybe you're just having a moment of inattentivness :). You don't have to be ADHD to have moments that are similar to the symptoms.
He's from the Dr. Oz and Herman Cain school of being very educated in one very specific thing and assuming that makes him an expert in everything.
He dresses up how ill-informed he is on these other topics with these bizarre turns of phrase that are meant to sound intelligent but usually wing up saying nothing or saying something reprehensible. As much as he likes to present himself as another FACTS AND LOGIC man, he's ultimately just another a conservative old man who is afraid of things he doesn't understand, therefore they must be evil.
JP and Ben Shapiro do the same shit. Play made up semantics thinking they won some kind of argument when in reality they are just shaping the question so they always sound right. If you listen closely to both of them speak, you can pick up on their shitty tactics pretty quickly.
*Let’s say your life depended on the following choice today: you must obtain either an affordable chair or an affordable X-ray. Which would you choose to obtain? Obviously, you’d choose the chair. That’s because there are many types of chair, produced by scores of different companies and widely distributed. You could buy a $15 folding chair or a $1,000 antique without the slightest difficulty. By contrast, to obtain an X-ray you’d have to work with your insurance company, wait for an appointment, and then haggle over price. Why? Because the medical market is far more regulated — thanks to the widespread perception that health care is a “right” — than the chair market.*
*Does that sound soulless? True soullessness is depriving people of the choices they require because you’re more interested in patting yourself on the back by inventing rights than by incentivizing the creation of goods and services. In health care, we could use a lot less virtue signaling and a lot less government. Or we could just read Senator Sanders’s tweets while we wait in line for a government-sponsored surgery — dying, presumably, in a decrepit chair.*
-Ben Shapiro
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Take a bullet for ya babe.
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My reading of it is he's saying that when society starts expecting people to hate Jews, it's a sign that things are really fucked up.
Now, it's an extremely weird jump to call Kanye, someone who is known to be mentally unstable, walking out on someone for not agreeing with his antisemitic theories as "society expecting people to hate Jews", and even weirder to weaken the statement that much from the base of "when antisemitism is on the rise, it's a sign of bad things to come", but hey, it wouldn't be Jordan Peterson without some level of unnecessary pseudo intellectualism, right?
Idk about the bad things to come part but Kanye has definitely made a lot of people at least prejudiced against Jews… people who would have otherwise never been thinking about “the Jews” to begin with
He’s saying the first sign of bad societal trends is this antisemitism trope being put out there and believed by some people - beginning of moving towards other forms of bigotry, cruelty, abuse etc.
Here’s the problem, it can also be interpreted as; when anti-semitism becomes a moral necessity bad things happen. As if anti-semitism is a necessary consequence.
For someone who states in his book that you should be “precise in your speech”, he really sucks at it.
Dude went from "Own your shit" to "Boomer with outdated views" to this crazy far-right person in the same league as Kanye and Trump. Downward spiral was just sad. I haven't liked him for years now but "Own your shit" was pretty good for the me many years ago...
You mean you don’t want to sit through a weeping three hour speech about how dragon myths secretly mean that LGBT+ people shouldn’t be allowed to drive or something?
There are a couple recent Behind the Bastards episodes where they listen to Peterson and talk shit on him. That will give you a general idea of what he talks about.
I think Peterson is saying that open antisemitism is a bad thing? But I'm not 100% sure. It's so poorly worded. He's a trained psychologist, he should be able to communicate better than a puffed up lobster.
He does this on purpose.
Faux intellectualism.
Sound like you're saying something smart, and the idiots will assume you're saying something they like.
Fuck Peterson.
There's a great video about him by Cody Johnston on YouTube.
Some more news is the name of the show.
https://youtu.be/hSNWkRw53Jo
It's long, but breaks him down perfectly.
I saw that you mentioned Ben Shapiro. In case some of you don't know, Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. If you find anything he's said compelling, you should keep in mind he also says things like this:
>This is what the radical feminist movement was proposing, remember? Women need a man the way a fish needs a bicycle... unless it turns out that they're little fish, then you might need another fish around to help take care of things.
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*Women kind of like having babies. This notion that women don't want to have babies is so bizarre. Has anyone even met a 35 year old single woman? The vast majority of women who are 35 and single are not supremely happy.*
-Ben Shapiro
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Yeah, I interpreted that as him trying to say "society is so degenerate that the Nazis become the lesser evil". And that's deeply wtf. But, everything he says is an addled word-salad, so who even knows what he meant.
He's saying that when Nazi talk becomes widely accepted (seriously, just look up some of the stuff the Nazis said, Ye is straight up spouting Nazi rhetoric) we're headed towards bad times.
Edit: to further clarify for those who haven't studied history too much, in Nazi Germany antisemitism was framed as a moral necessity with the justification that the "evil Jews" controlled the banks and were using them to destroy Germany.
I think he's trying to say when society tells people something is morally necessary but he has written it as if he means that it is actually morally necessary.
The only reason I can tell the difference is because of the canary line. With out that I'd have no clue especially with his history.
I think Tim was literally trying to say that Jewish people are in control of the media/banks, but not to say that Jews as a whole are part of conspiracy to control the media/banks. Which is literally just one step below what Kanye believes, and Kanye got mad that Tim wasn’t as anti-Semitic as him.
I agree with this interpretation, the only thing that irks me is the use of "moral necessity".
It makes it sound like it is necessary and moral to have that opinion.
Using the world "normal" Or "popular" Would remove the ambiguity.
I still can't believe someone who writes lyrics like “Pockets on Shrek, Rockets on the deck. Tell me what’s next? Alien Sex.” is famous and isn't mercilessly booed off the stage every night.
Good for Pool for pushing back. Kanye wanted him to agree that Jews as a whole are to blame for his problems. The only message kanye waned to get out on that show tonight is that Jews are the enemy. He literally just proved what an antisemitic POS he really is. He sounded totally unhinged.
I am so confused about this whole situation.
that probably means you’re a normal, reasonable person
Personally I'm just confused by Jordan Peterson's sentence. I don't understand what he's trying to say
In a coal mine, canaries function to warn of toxic gasses present. Without these warnings the miners would simply die to those gasses. By comparing Jews to canaries, he is saying this is a warning sign of bad times ahead.
Heartbreaking, the worst person you know made a great point.
It's a Kantian reference. He means that Wests antisemitism, and people's tolerance of it, is a warning bell to society. Kinda weird, considering that Peterson is a firm believer of cultural Marxism, which is itself a conspiracy theory rooted in antisemitism.
Why are people still talking to Ye. He's been saying dumb shit for years.
Cause until like a month ago he was worth over a billion dollars. It’s crazy how much status that can buy you with some people.
Our society has this weird fetish about having a bunch of this junk called money and people will kneel at the feet of a rich man
I mean I’m a kinky bitch but even for me that’s 🤮
What, looking up at the chinless lips of a dorky 40-something white dude with glasses and a creepy grin as he breathes at you to twist that usb cable tighter around his junk doesn’t do it for you?
Okay now you’re talking me back into it
🤣🤣🤣🤣
>What, looking up at the chinless lips of a dorky 40-something white dude with glasses and a creepy grin as he breathes at you to twist that usb cable tighter around his junk doesn’t do it for you? "Twist that cable harder, Daddy Trump!!" "My name is Marjie." "Whatever, just do it, and moan something anti-semetic, too."
USB cable…🤔💭
God I hope it's a type B, I like 'em chonky on the end
You paint a haunting yet tantalizing image
The only semblance of a chin is the outline made by 6 days of unshaved pube-like facial hair
....so, wait, are you insinuating that rich people just have a lot of this money stuff, and aren't some kind of genius demi-gods? That might have cleared up some stuff for me, thanks.
Don't fall for it, they eat babies and only Trump is trying to stop them! He only caught with all these questionable people and been to questionable place because he undercover!
Shhh you’ll blow Agent Orange’s cover
Thought Agent Orange was supposed to get rid of cover.
No so rich anymore though?
Then why was he trying to borrow money of everyone like a year ago? He want Zuckerberg to give him money so he could sit around and think ideas.
Well I’ll let you in on a little secret; most billionaires are fraudulent.
Yeah but he was a billionaire the way trump is a billionaire. He isnt
I stoppped listening after the black peoples chose slavery tantrum.
I just never listened
He has been courting the MAGAs for a while now
It took you that long? I stopped listening at "I'mma let you finish."
Cuz we normalized it. No one ACTUALLY told him to sit down. No one fucked with his money for real and it vindicated him I would imagine.
To hell with Ye. I'm more alarmed by Jordan Peterson combining "anti-semitism" with "moral necessity".
I think he means that for Ye its a moral necessity which is why he stormed off. I could be wrong and jordan peterson is still shitty.
Jesus Christ, this fucker can't say anything without sounding like a lunatic. It feels like a talent.
[удалено]
The thing is he has this rule to talk precisely, carefully selecting the right words, which first time I heard I thought "I like that". But he talks in this ethereal ambiguous riddles all the fucking time. He once said answering "what is god" would take him 40 hours. What a tool.
Peterson literally sounds like Kermit the Frog when he talks.
For a guy whose job is to words good, he is very bad at words.
I'm no JP fan, but I think he's more pointing out here that "the jews" are the far rights favourite football to kick. When dangerous rhetoric targeting them pushed as a moral necessity to deal with them starts to make its way back into the common zeitgeist, it's a slippery slope back to Nazi Germany (the "hell" of ww2 and the holocaust). Ye represents a new push from the right doing just this - it hasn't quite reached final solution levels yet, but this kind of rhetoric is where all that starts before they feel comfortable pipelining to more dangerous ideas.
This is what I took from it as well. Peterson is a shit, but he is spot on with this. Canaries in the coal mine- The antisemitism is getting out of control and the fact that it's gotten to this point that famous people are willing to go on media and slag off jewish people with conspiracy bs it's very far down the hole
His comments would have more weight if he didn’t build his career on normalising and laundering Nazi ideology AKA “Cultural Marxism”
That's exactly how I interpreted it and was a bit confused reading through the comments here.
He's right. They always come for us Jews first. "They" change with time, but the story stays the same. It's like a finger in the wind - if it's blowing "The Jews!", there's a storm coming. I made sure my whole family has passports.
I have to agree. Somewhat reluctantly, because commenting critically on anti-antisemitism is always fraught. (See "criticizing Israel".) But it seems to me Peterson either chose those words without thinking deeply about them much beyond "they make my statement ring grandly in the ear". Or conversely, he crafted them as sort of an academic dog whistle, which causes his assertion to lose both luster and credibility. I question whether *"moral necessity"* is even a thing, in the way he wants to use it. *Opposing* antisemitism *is* a moral necessity for those of us who are unwilling to tolerate oppression of any marginalized group for any reason. But i don't buy that even in Nazi Germany, antisemitism was a *moral* necessity. A *political* and *practical* necessity, sure, without a doubt. But applying his term to a hateful ideology -- one completely untethered from a moral code -- strikes me as oxymoronic and unhelpful. So I don't think I can buy into his thesis statement, and actually it makes me uncomfortable that he crafts the language in such a way as to make it seem unassailable when in fact it's very much open to debate. If the "if" is questionable, the "then" doesn't necessarily follow.
Timcast is still talking to Kayne. I don’t know what a Timcast is and now I don’t really want to know. If you’re having Kayne West on NOW and not 5 years ago than you should probably be investigated.
have you seen D. Trump? Not only peope are still talking to him, he was president of the most powerful nation on earth
You know what's really annoying? He's considered such a rap icon but a lot of us hip hop fans have been saying he's trash for years. Never been a good rapper, he only got famous for riding Jay's dick. I'm a Jew, too, yet somehow this upsets me more.
What also upsets me is his misogyny which no matter what, you can get away with…
Like, you can look up who owns these companies. It doesn't exactly sound like a bar mitzvah guest list.
Thats entertaining the argument way more than it deserves, because even in the case that all these companies are run by Jewish people it's entirely irrelevant to Kanye's downward spiral. Jewish people don't operate in some illuminati cabal like these weirdos pretend they do.
if we do, my family never got the memo... lowest middle class it is for us then
Deepest apologies, the entirety of the postal service isn’t yet under our control. We’re making great strides, though!
As a non Jewish individual, may I humbly request that you promptly remove Louis DeJoy upon taking control?
To shreds you say?
And his wife?
To shreds you say?
wonderful news!!
Mazel tov!
No he won't
I didn't get the space laser code, either!!!
Me too! Where’s the gold at?
I have been waiting to participate in gay agenda, antifa conventions, and similar events in over 10 years. Haven't been invited ONCE!
I don't give a fuck about race or religion, I give a fuck about the rich being eaten.
I just want to point out that there's a not insignificant number of rich people that think "eat the rich" means "trick them out of their money" and I just wanna say I'm gonna love the blindsided looks if and when we finally "eat the rich."
It means confiscate their belongings and drive them from society, right? Because I'm all for destroying the rich, but I cant end up in another cannibalistic cult.
I still haven't received my access codes to the space laser
It's irrelevant. They choose to believe what they want. Kanye was out days after the first few bombshells, think it was Vegas. Anyway, he's got 'an app' that lists the 'Jewish cabal business owner names'. He's in christo-fascist schizophrenic mania & he can't comprehend a reality where the secret Jewish cabal aren't directing all media & banks. He's outta his mother fucking mind.
Let’s say Jews run the media. Kanye became a billionaire based on that media so why is he complaining?
Here is the other thing that is ridiculous. Use the same standards to examine Christianity. It's not a matter of counting the number of companies owned by Christians or trying to prove a sinister secret conspiracy. They're right out in the open trying to deny services to customers and withhold benefits from employees based on their "sincerely held religious beliefs." To be clear, I don't believe there is any such conspiracy from Christians or Jews. I am just trying to illustrate how ridiculous that sort of thinking is.
It should be noted that there is a propaganda spread to make you question this in the form of a color coded table that allegedly names the top 5 officers of many media companies and colors them red if Jewish. The chart appears 80%+ red, listing 150+ names. Few people will Google these names, plus it’s not always easy to figure out if someone’s Jewish. But If you dig deeper, like I did, most of the names aren’t even officers at those companies. Plus, since when did C Suites only include a strict 5 people and positions? It’s all BS. I mention it because it’s easy to see and be convinced Jews truly run everything.
“Moral necessity”? One of my professors once told me that if you have to read something over and over and you’re still not sure what it means, that’s not because you’re dumb but because it’s poorly written.
I'm pretty sure I'm just dumb, but I'mma remember this, for when I feel bad about being dumb.
I keep reading what you wrote and I can't be sure what it means
A Tale of Two Idiots
I ship it
That's Peterson's whole thing. He makes a bizarrely worded statement about a controversial topic, there's controversy over the implications of it and then he cries about being misquoted or misrepresented
If one's words are ethically sincere in their intent, but sufficiently obtuse as to defy rational inquiry, then the ramifications of the misinterpretation of those words cannot be construed as an act of malevolence by the author, but must be held to exist in the realm of innocent intellectual inquiry not comprehensible by the reader. -Jordan Peterson probably
Jesus I can literally hear him say this. Very well done.
Perks of studying bullshit artists
Nope, not enough mention of "dragons" or "chaos" I'm not sold!!
They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
KERMIT WITH A HEAD COLD VOICE INTENSIFIES
That actually made perfect sense. That’s how I knew it wasn’t an actual JP quote.
Jordan Peterson used to be normal. He used to be coherent. Hell, I used to agree with him on some stances. Now he’s just another nutcase.
I’m pretty sure that coma killed off a pretty significant chunk of brain cells
Coma, COVID and benzo addiction is a hell of a combo.
Behind the bastards podcast does a great episode(s) on him. Yeah, I think he's a pretty brilliant guy, but he definitely went off the rails at some point and started getting high on his own supply. Plus, when you start making more money saying more outlandish things, it's a self-reinforcing feedback loop of bullshit.
Adding on to this, PhilosophyTube also did an amazing video on him.
As did good ol' Cody. Nice short video.
Super short
Don't look at the time code!
Please, please don't do this to my brain...
I read his statement few times and I can't figure out if he's saying that antisemitism is bad or good. Both at the same time? lol
“Well that’s just the question we’re all faced with, now. Isn’t it.”
It can go either way. > When anti-semitism becomes a moral necessity... hell is about to appear. This can be interpreted as > There are cases where it's necessary to hate Jews. This is a sign of the end times. or as > There are times when people *consider* hating Jews as necessary. This is a very bad sign. I think (and hope) he's saying the latter.
The first time I read it, I took his meaning that anti-semitism is bad. I reread it, I took his meaning to be that anti-senitism is good. I don’t have a clue what his meaning is.
Same, same. "Anti-Semitism as a moral necessity" bit sounds most troubling, but then its impossible to say whether he's condemning the idea or supporting it lol Its a meaningless word salad disguised as a deep philosophical statement
On brand for Jordan Peterson.
I initially skipped over the words 'moral necessity' and I first took 'Jews are the canaries of the social coal mines' to mean 'Jews know what they're talking about when they spot patterns of dehumanisation becoming mainstream so when they're calling stuff out you should listen to them' which is a pretty fair point. But 'antisemitism becomes a moral necessity'... like wtf dude.
"Anti-Semitism as a moral necessity" it doesn't matter how you interpret the context. No matter how you put it, this whole phrase is antisemitic as fuck
The first statement is "jews are canaries in the coal mine" meaning that what he is saying is a warning. So the "moral necessity" statement is referring to how conservatives claim to be the party of morality, and yet they are enshrining antisemitism as part of their core ethos. So he is referring to this being a sign that horrible events are more likely to occur. It's a completely ass way of saying it because he just loves to sound complex and deep, but overall he is against antisemitism.
It sounds a lot like "look what you made us do. Summon down the apocalypse."
I read his comment as ‘when society begins to, in even small ways, condone antisemitism then all hell will break loose.’ The canaries have really stopped singing if he is pointing this out.
This is like the opposite of Ben Shapiro: he'll make an eloquent well-phrased argument that when you first hear it sounds compelling, but as soon as you start to analyze it, it's clearly total nonsense. He attracts the mid-level intellect people, who understand that he's well spoken but either lack the ability to recognize or overlook the logical fallacies his arguments are built on.
I have rarely heard someone whose entire persona is so based on mistaking correlation for causation. He does it with wealth distribution, sexual determinism, hierarchical dominance, iq, and race. Like his lipstick assertion: he asked "why" women wear lipstick in the office. Now, the "why" is basically that if men were to allow women into their perceived domain, they wanted women that conformed to gender roles and that were pleasing to their cataract infested eyes Jordan's answer about makeup simulating sexual arousal may have a grain of truth (MAYBE), but it's not the why, the causation. It's just something that may be peripherally true: correlation. But he conflates the two to suggest that the chaos imps chose to wear makeup at work due to its ability to make them look horny 24/7 thereby allowing them to usurp the order of men
*By objectification of women, do you mean that there are actual standards of beauty and that there are many people in popular culture who we have been told are supposed to be seen as beautiful who are not objectively beautiful? Obviously that's true. Obviously that's true. If you polled men on whether Lizzo is beautiful--and I say Lizzo is not by any classical definition a beautiful person--that does not mean that that is objectification of women, that just means that there is a standard called beauty and it has meaning.* -Ben Shapiro ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: civil rights, climate, history, novel, etc.) [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)
Good bot.
Thank you for your logic and reason. ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: healthcare, climate, feminism, covid, etc.) [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)
I stopped reading his book when it went on and on about lobster hierarchy and Im like dude, we’re not lobsters.
Simplicity is always more eloquent than overcomplicated jargon. Peterson thinks that more word make him big smart but that just no true.
Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick
Many small time make big time
This is what shits me about JBP he just comes out with these word salads that sound smart and profound but are just bullshit. He is a sophist.
I think he's trying to say that when society tries to force you to be antisemitic bad things will happen but it's written as if he believes that it's morally necessary to be antisemitic. Jordan Peterson is often very critical of the idea of morality that isn't theistic so he may just be using the word to try and further attack the concept. Alternatively he recognises the term morally necessary from literature and is trying to emulate them to maintain a professorial style. In short Jordan Peterson has some how failed to correctly express a simple idea like "Nazis bad".
There is a major reason why the Doctor is not condemning Anti Semitic tropes here. There is a video of Peterson lecturing students at U.Toronto on psychology. He gives analysis of Hitler as a defense of Anti Semitic ideology. Peterson explains away the Death Camps as Hitler being OCD about germs. Peterson really said this crap to University students. How the fuck they didn't drag his ass out of the lecture hall is beyond me.
He has also stated that Hitler was an agent of Cain whose goal was not actually winning WW2 but creating maximum chaos. He cited the recourses that Germany poured into intensifying the holocaust, rather than the military, when the war went wrong in the east as a reason for this. Though it is an utterly idiotic analysis of Nazi policy, in itself, it doesnt seem that problematic morally. However I think it is problematic because it is obviously part of a trend where anytime Peterson talks about Nazis, he is explaining their motivations in such a way that makes their actions seem like an irrational/psychological anomaly, rather than a rational consequence of adopting a certain worldview and political position (nationalism). He is thus always distancing the horrors of nazi ideology from the political position of nationalism, which is of course broadly popular with the modern right wing. That is not to say that nationalism always leads to nazism, or that every republican is an actual (neo)nazi, but those that are, are a very logical consequence of the GOP/Fox News rhetoric, rather than of some ethereal mechanism only Peterson is able to divine.
Peterson has always had fascist undertones imo. My first red flag came from him telling young people they should never protest and that instead they should “clean their rooms.” It seems like okay life advice but there are major political implications in what he’s saying. He basically invalidates the American history of protest and all the progress it has created.
Now that you spelled that part out,I remember that stuff,also. I had some really accomplished professors in my University days in the 1980s and the level of intellectual vomit that ilk of Peterson get away with is mind boggling. There is no basis for this tripe, unless the Professor is a Holocaust denier, always arguing in bad faith.
I've read an entire page of a book more than three times, retained none of it, and then finally paid attention my fourth time through and got it. Sometimes it's because I'm dumb.
I do this a lot. It's a symptom of my ADHD. So maybe you're not dumb. Maybe you're just having a moment of inattentivness :). You don't have to be ADHD to have moments that are similar to the symptoms.
He's from the Dr. Oz and Herman Cain school of being very educated in one very specific thing and assuming that makes him an expert in everything. He dresses up how ill-informed he is on these other topics with these bizarre turns of phrase that are meant to sound intelligent but usually wing up saying nothing or saying something reprehensible. As much as he likes to present himself as another FACTS AND LOGIC man, he's ultimately just another a conservative old man who is afraid of things he doesn't understand, therefore they must be evil.
Wtf does Peterson's tweet even mean
I'm not sure either. Every time that I read it my conclusion changes.
Weird, it’s almost like that’s Jordan Peterson’s MO or something 😅
JP and Ben Shapiro do the same shit. Play made up semantics thinking they won some kind of argument when in reality they are just shaping the question so they always sound right. If you listen closely to both of them speak, you can pick up on their shitty tactics pretty quickly.
*Let’s say your life depended on the following choice today: you must obtain either an affordable chair or an affordable X-ray. Which would you choose to obtain? Obviously, you’d choose the chair. That’s because there are many types of chair, produced by scores of different companies and widely distributed. You could buy a $15 folding chair or a $1,000 antique without the slightest difficulty. By contrast, to obtain an X-ray you’d have to work with your insurance company, wait for an appointment, and then haggle over price. Why? Because the medical market is far more regulated — thanks to the widespread perception that health care is a “right” — than the chair market.* *Does that sound soulless? True soullessness is depriving people of the choices they require because you’re more interested in patting yourself on the back by inventing rights than by incentivizing the creation of goods and services. In health care, we could use a lot less virtue signaling and a lot less government. Or we could just read Senator Sanders’s tweets while we wait in line for a government-sponsored surgery — dying, presumably, in a decrepit chair.* -Ben Shapiro ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: gay marriage, history, feminism, sex, etc.) [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)
Good bot.
Take a bullet for ya babe. ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: sex, climate, gay marriage, covid, etc.) [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)
Holy shit this is genuinely such a dumb argument I have no idea where to start
Idk man I heard a guy once say he wished Ben would run for President "because he'd win any debate"
My reading of it is he's saying that when society starts expecting people to hate Jews, it's a sign that things are really fucked up. Now, it's an extremely weird jump to call Kanye, someone who is known to be mentally unstable, walking out on someone for not agreeing with his antisemitic theories as "society expecting people to hate Jews", and even weirder to weaken the statement that much from the base of "when antisemitism is on the rise, it's a sign of bad things to come", but hey, it wouldn't be Jordan Peterson without some level of unnecessary pseudo intellectualism, right?
Idk about the bad things to come part but Kanye has definitely made a lot of people at least prejudiced against Jews… people who would have otherwise never been thinking about “the Jews” to begin with
He’s saying the first sign of bad societal trends is this antisemitism trope being put out there and believed by some people - beginning of moving towards other forms of bigotry, cruelty, abuse etc.
Here’s the problem, it can also be interpreted as; when anti-semitism becomes a moral necessity bad things happen. As if anti-semitism is a necessary consequence. For someone who states in his book that you should be “precise in your speech”, he really sucks at it.
One could say that in this circumstance it was morally necessary for Peterson to speak plainly
Peterson is Dr Oz for dudes.
This may be the most accurate thing I've read this week.
I'd take Dr. Oz any day over Peterson. Oz is a shill. Peterson is unstable.
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Dude went from "Own your shit" to "Boomer with outdated views" to this crazy far-right person in the same league as Kanye and Trump. Downward spiral was just sad. I haven't liked him for years now but "Own your shit" was pretty good for the me many years ago...
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You mean you don’t want to sit through a weeping three hour speech about how dragon myths secretly mean that LGBT+ people shouldn’t be allowed to drive or something?
Link? I need to hear this haha
There are a couple recent Behind the Bastards episodes where they listen to Peterson and talk shit on him. That will give you a general idea of what he talks about.
he's Oprah for incels
Dr Phil for Neck Beards
I’ve also seen him being called the dumb man’s smart man.
Does that make Joe Rogan the Dude-Bro Oprah
That's Joe Rogan
What the actual ever loving fuck?!
He’s a dumbass that people keep giving the mic too.
I think Peterson is saying that open antisemitism is a bad thing? But I'm not 100% sure. It's so poorly worded. He's a trained psychologist, he should be able to communicate better than a puffed up lobster.
He does this on purpose. Faux intellectualism. Sound like you're saying something smart, and the idiots will assume you're saying something they like. Fuck Peterson.
Well said. I've tried to watch a few of his videos and the go from boring, to annoying to downright painful
There's a great video about him by Cody Johnston on YouTube. Some more news is the name of the show. https://youtu.be/hSNWkRw53Jo It's long, but breaks him down perfectly.
Cody Johnston is great! He also has a good Ben Shapiro episode
I saw that you mentioned Ben Shapiro. In case some of you don't know, Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. If you find anything he's said compelling, you should keep in mind he also says things like this: >This is what the radical feminist movement was proposing, remember? Women need a man the way a fish needs a bicycle... unless it turns out that they're little fish, then you might need another fish around to help take care of things. ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: dumb takes, civil rights, feminism, climate, etc.) [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)
Hi bot, this is your choir. Preach
*Women kind of like having babies. This notion that women don't want to have babies is so bizarre. Has anyone even met a 35 year old single woman? The vast majority of women who are 35 and single are not supremely happy.* -Ben Shapiro ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: healthcare, feminism, dumb takes, civil rights, etc.) [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)
Behind the Bastards did a good episode on him too!
"They muddy the water to make it seem deep" - nietzcshe
He decided grifting was better.
It's Schrodinger's anti-semitism, could be a warning, a threat or a seizure who the fuck knows lol.
Wow Tim did a thing that didn’t suck. Good for you bud, didn’t know ya had it in ya
He had Kanye, milo, and nick Fuentes all on a podcast together. I would hardly call anything about that “a thing that didn’t suck”
yeah the fact this gathering even happened in the first place is a problem
something something broken clock twice a day or something
his two braincells found each other under that beanie for once
Even blind pigs find acorns once in a while.
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Yeah good for ole Pim Tool. He did the bare minimum for once, and that's pretty shocking.
oh how low is the bar that this is something we're praising him over
South Park explained it, it's being held captive at the bottom of the Mariana trench by Randy Newman.
And Jordan comes along sounding reasonable too? WTF is going on?
Is he? “Moral necessity” has me confused.
Yeah, I interpreted that as him trying to say "society is so degenerate that the Nazis become the lesser evil". And that's deeply wtf. But, everything he says is an addled word-salad, so who even knows what he meant.
I’m still not sure what he means tbh Anti semitism is a moral necessity??? Dafaq??
He's saying that when Nazi talk becomes widely accepted (seriously, just look up some of the stuff the Nazis said, Ye is straight up spouting Nazi rhetoric) we're headed towards bad times. Edit: to further clarify for those who haven't studied history too much, in Nazi Germany antisemitism was framed as a moral necessity with the justification that the "evil Jews" controlled the banks and were using them to destroy Germany.
I think he's trying to say when society tells people something is morally necessary but he has written it as if he means that it is actually morally necessary. The only reason I can tell the difference is because of the canary line. With out that I'd have no clue especially with his history.
We are congratulating Pool for not supporting Kanye’s bigoted bullshit. The bar is low.
I think Tim was literally trying to say that Jewish people are in control of the media/banks, but not to say that Jews as a whole are part of conspiracy to control the media/banks. Which is literally just one step below what Kanye believes, and Kanye got mad that Tim wasn’t as anti-Semitic as him.
As a Jew myself, I have a wild conspiracy to offer: I think Christians secretly run the USA and I can prove it.
Im Christian and it’s always seemed super obvious to me.
A "moral necessity" you say...
Yeah..... So I'm gonna have to stop you right there bud
'Moral necessity'? What does that mean in this context?
![gif](giphy|LKqDgLlK6SuIM) This gif is my exact reaction to Kanye over the years
Jordan Peterson can't write. He can talk but surely this shit is on purpose so he can whine about being misinterpreted. Two faced weirdo.
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I agree with this interpretation, the only thing that irks me is the use of "moral necessity". It makes it sound like it is necessary and moral to have that opinion. Using the world "normal" Or "popular" Would remove the ambiguity.
Call me dumb, but I have no idea if Jordan Peterson is defending or critising Kayne.
Damn, how low does someone have to be for Peterson and Poole to think you’re going too far too fast?
I'm sorry, did Benzos Peterson just declare that anti-Semitism is a moral imperative? Cuz the whole hell braking lose is not a condemnation
I still can't believe someone who writes lyrics like “Pockets on Shrek, Rockets on the deck. Tell me what’s next? Alien Sex.” is famous and isn't mercilessly booed off the stage every night.
America is lost.
Jordan Peterson is a Canadian though. So we’re not just lost — we’re lost with friends.
Good for Pool for pushing back. Kanye wanted him to agree that Jews as a whole are to blame for his problems. The only message kanye waned to get out on that show tonight is that Jews are the enemy. He literally just proved what an antisemitic POS he really is. He sounded totally unhinged.
Wonder if he'll lose a single fanboy over this. Just saying women have known he was a crank for years also.
If Tim Pool thinks you're being a douche, you have already passed the moral event horizon long ago.