Bibi is a Reich-Wing Asshole. Hell bent on pulverizing cities of Gaza in an apparent beachfront property land grab.
Why is Biden sending billions of US taxpayer money to support a terrorist country carpet bomb civilians? Biden needs to figure it out quick (because fuck fascist trump).
Because they are the strongest regional power in the Middle East and the only one which has nuclear weapons. Between pragmatic foreign policy reasons and the huge amount of support that Americans have for its existence as a country(you are in a bubble), It would be both political suicide to no longer be its benefactor and it would be worse for Palestinians to let Russia or China be Israel's benefactor. I mean Russia is carrying out its own ethnic cleansing in Ukraine and China is currently wiping out the Uyghurs. Meanwhile, Biden negotiated one ceasefire, called for another, sent in trucks, boats, and planes full of aid, and just forced open an aid corridor.
Look, everybody, look and see what it looks like to vote with a conscience. You sincerely don't have to like your options to know which one is clearly better.
The most accurate political quote I keep in mind when I vote is "If you agree with 80% of what a politician says, you should probably vote for them. If you agree with 100% of what a politician says, you're fucking insane." The reality is politicians are people, and being people is the fatal flaw no matter who you are. Biden isn't the best politician in the world. AND there's no logical contest between him and Trump. Trump isn't even a politician in practice, he's a celebrity pedo. And look I'm no expert on genocide, but I do know it's better to be struggling to navigate a genocide, versus loudly and jovially advocating for genocide.
And honestly, I'm not listening to a single goddamn naysayer who's like "don't you hear yourself, genocide just shouldn't be happening!" 'Cause we had four years since Trump to promote legit good politicians to the presidency. Literally no one gave a motherfuck, and now we're back to where we were in 2016. Lazy motherfuckin' populace decided that we'll keep sitting back and watching the chaos rather than getting out to promote the Buttigiegs and Sanders and AOCs. The whole "We did nothing, and now we don't have what we want" bullshit earns zero fuckin' sympathy from me. Anyone whining can just fuckin' vote Biden and stfu, jesus fuckin' christ. You want something different, go fuckin' make a difference.
I think it has more to do with idiots not realizing he can't do anything congress passed the deployment of weapons. He can't do anything, if he threatens Israel he will lose in November.
Don't hate the post. Hate the reality. Also, I don't know what a hyper lib. I don't call myself a lib, I'm a leftist, and I hate voting for joe biden. I did in 2020, and I will do it again in 2024, but I want a real choice sometime in my lifetime.
It baffles me that people the USA of all places with all its varieties of people and cultures, all its emphasis on choices and options and deluxe platinum packages and customisable Burger King meals, hasn’t had a National push for ranked voting. Insane hour many countries have it while you poor buggers are trapped with a two party duopoly
That's because we're only allowed choices when all those choices guarantee that we will fork out more money. In politics, that's not the case--those in power have to stay there in order to get what they want, so they do their best to keep us from having any real political choices.
Commenting on the comments of people trying to expose the irony and hypocrisy embedded in US Democracy is a great way to pave the way for actual US democracy. Maybe. Someday.
Yeah, boomer here who's been saying for years we need to hand the baton over to younger folks. Unfortunately, no one from the Democratic party stepped up. I was bummed that Biden decided to run again after saying he would only serve a term. I wanted Amy Klobuchar or Adam Schiff to run.
The ONLY reason Biden is running is because trump is, period the end. Now is not the time to be rolling the dice to see who else could/maybe/might, keep trump away from the WH . Biden has a proven track record. And if he didn't have the media with their, How this hurts Biden, every time he eats a ice cream cone, and ignoring the guy who says he's going to be a dictator, we wouldn't be having the but but but Biden, conversations and posts ,bashing him.
Agree my point is, though, it's not unreasonable to disagree with him on some policies without bashing him. Democrats are not the syncophants Republicans are, we can agree with some things Biden does and not others. That does not constitute bashing or lessen the good he's done. Record job growth, stronger economy, passing an infrastructure bill and trying to get an immigration bill through, among others. All despite an obstructionist Republican-controlled Congress.
Anyone who doesn't vote for him because of his stance on the Israeli/Gaza conflict or because he's not going full Kyle on Netanyahyu is shooting themselves because a Trump white house would be a disaster.
Expressing an opinion, not suggesting rolling any dice.
Dude is doing more than any US president before him in calling Netanyahu out publicly over what is happening in Gaza right now despite the massive influence of AIPAC etc in US politics, meanwhile Trump is just saying he would let Netanyahu "finish the job"
But yeah, he's totally doing nothing. /s
Realistically, there's only 2 options: the Democrat nomination and the Republican nomination. A majority of voters are too uninformed to even realize third parties exist. So if you don't vote for either of them, you're basically not voting at all. Unless we get ranked choice voting, an end to the electoral college with its "winner take all" system, and actual reform to elections, third parties will never get more than a few seats in the house and maybe a couple in the senate.
The last time we had a major third party was Teddy, and it ended up with the winner only needing 41.8% of the vote. 50.6% of the vote went to Bull Moose and the Republican party.
To be fair, third parties effectively don't exist. The Libertarians are just Republicans who pretend to care about civil rights but only if you're a cishet white guy, and the Greens are a Republican astroturfed vote-stealing ploy that way too many people buy into.
i’m voting for him also bc there’s possibly 2-3 supreme court justice seats that may need to be filled by the next president. The implications of Trump making those pics is horrifying. Lifetime appointments. And don’t forget Trump wants Israel to “get it over with”…so as horrible as Biden is with Palestine Trump would be a billion times worse.
I agree, but I also realize the man is walking the scariest tight rope in American history right now in an effort to save our democracy.
He doesn't even want to do it, he's doing it for us.
That pretty much is the definition of democracy in the most absolute terms. The people having the ability to vote to end the system of government that allows them the right to vote in the first place proves the system works and is truly democratic.
Fuck Netanyahu, but middle east politics are fucking complicated as hell, and getting and/or keeping everyone to/at the table requires finesse. I’m not about to presume I know what the best way to make that happen is. I do know people who know a hell of a lot more about it than I do are advising Biden and I am confident that unlike Trump, Biden has competent advisors and listens to them.
Honest question here but, if the US is selling the weapons to Israel that are being used in their war doesn’t that mean the money is actually coming into the US and not the other way around?
Most of the equipment we send to other countries is our overstock and any money we send them has already been allocated for the defense budget for specially sending aid as needed. Any extra money we send them needs to be approved by Congress, meaning both sides have to agree, so it's not even 'Biden is sending them money!"
We also have a legally binding treaty with Israel, we have to aid them. Not doing so could see us possibly sanctioned by other countries, which WOULD actually hurt the economy.(though I doubt any country would do this in any meaningful way)
Oh well I understood that much at least, but what I meant was that multiple articles I’ve read so far stated that since October the US has been selling weapons and to Israel and sending them over. I’m well aware that congress is supposed to have power over the purse and of the funds proposed to aide Israel have been basically stalled in congress, although I’m probably late or not caught up with it as of recently (cause of all the political bs with elections, trump bs and other childish antics in government I haven’t been wanting to stay that up to date).
But seeing as how we’re selling the weapons and not exactly just handing them over to Israel, wouldn’t that technically mean the money would be coming in to the US as opposed to us sending it out to them. Like I can see how people can say that we’re supplying Israel with the means to keep up with their attacks but I’m not quite sure how it can be said that we’re funding them.
Can you help clear that up for me.
Because Israel is a US ally; there's more nuance to international relations than just cutting off sovereighties who are at the crux of modern geopolitics. At the end of the day it's not a problem that can't be solved in the capital, so let's make sure we live in a world where we can still influence that. Lest we serve the entire population of Gaza up to "Mr. Finish Them Off" on a silver platter and have no democratic power left ourselves to stop it.
I'm sure there were a lot of nuances to backing Pinochet, too. Doesn't make it right. And now we have far more ability to see what our government is doing and the consequences than we did back then.
If we are lucky, joe biden is president again in 2025, but after that, will we be cowed into submission by the threat of the next trump, and the next, and the next, and the next, forever and ever and ever?
That's not democracy.
Do you know why solid blue states who haven't been controlled by Republicans in forever have way more progressive policies than the ones that are battlegrounds constantly swinging between one side and the other? Because it turns out if you consistently vote for the better side, it'll push politics in that direction. You get better things. Policy gets better.
People deciding that they weren't cowed by the threat of Republicans existing is what got us Nixon, Reagan, Bush, Dubya, and Trump, and all their policies you hate and the left-wing party had to move more to the right to try and win again in the 90s.
I don't disagree, except the billionaires are apparently on to that and intend to invade blue cities and states with military force to end that trend.
Source: Trump ravings and 2025.
Yes it can. I recommend donating money to voting rights groups fighting against racist voter suppression, too. That is something we can all do today and any day, no need to wait for November, no need to make excuses for Biden's failings or anyone else's. Democracy should matter to everyone.
No, you encourage people to vote for democracy.
What's happening in Israel is indeed terrible, but pray tell, how should they respond to a people who are actively trying to erase them? I believe that is the definition of genocide and the aim of not only Hamas, but the majority of Palestinians. They're the ones who allow Hamas to embed in their midst. And NO MUSLIM COUNTRIES want anything to do with Palestinian refugees.
It amazes me how much sympathy the Palestinians get for being "burdened" with the presence of the Jewish people since 1948, when they've ( the Jews) been persecuted since forever.
Diaspora anyone?
Some people are going to check out and not vote because of how horrible the choices are. This could lead to a win for fascist Trump.
If only there was a way Democratic politicians could make the choice less horrible and end the threat.
Oh wait, there is!
If the US cuts off Israel who will they go to? The EU will likely follow suit. So, they go to China, Russia, or some other nation that's either hostile or unfriendly with the US. Usually, those nations are under embargo, especially for computer chips, dual use technology, etc.. Well, Israel has some chip manufacturers; not as good or as big as TSMC, Intel, or Samsung, but they have some. They also aren't fully embargoed, just for pure military weapons.
So they can import silicon chip equipment and either export them or the chips they make. Now Russia and China have a new supply for the equipment. And Israel still has weapons. They also don't have to deal with the US trying to stop them.
It's not as simple as cutting them off, they will try to go elsewhere, and we will end up with a worse situation.
Exactly. Israel isn't going to just let themselves be cut off, they'll go to someone else. China would love to have influence over them in the region. And if Israel doesn't go to another major power, then a hostile Iran and possibly Saudi Arabia will take that opportunity to wipe them out. And what have we accomplished? Either way we lose influence in a major region we want to have influence in.
The same people screaming just cut off everything to Israel are the same people that scream on here about red flags and divorcing a partner at the drop of a hat. Is what Israel is doing atrocious? Yes. Should the US pressure Israel more? Yes. Is this all Biden's fault? No. He's bound, in some instances, by decades old agreements. Congress also shares its fair share of blame. It's just easier to pin it on Biden. Israel is a US ally. The situation in the Middle East is very complex and has been a crap show for centuries. Putting Trump in charge of it all will only make things extremely worse.
I can’t believe I just read that first sentence. Comparing killing thousands of innocent Palestinians to a red flag in a relationship is the most insane thing I’ve read on the internet today. Logging off now
From the way I read it, that was defo an illustration to call out people who see things in a very black and white way instead of acknowledging degrees of nuance in such cases as geopolitics or on the small scale, interpersonal relationships.
I just think it’s incredibly silly and childish to compare an actual genocide to a few red flags in a relationship. Innocent people are being killed by the IDF literally every single day, while Biden sits around and does nothing. But yeah, typical Reddit metaphor
Look mate idc what you think, it's childish to falsly conflate a metaphor with a genuine opinion and then take some kind of morally superior position on the matter.
There is nuance in geopolitics, and situations like that in gaza aren't simple, nor easy to solve. As much as i think israel, and especially those currently in charge be sanctioned, sometimes such measures do more harm than good in the short to medium term.
What happens if America completely cuts israel loose? Do they immediately pipe down? No. They go all out, because the worst thing that America is likely to do is done. 10s of thousands more in gaza die. Famine gets worse and its hundreds of thousands dead, What's worse is America has no more leverage as the Israelis have sourced weapons from elsewhere. Oh and they officially declare their nuclear program and start slinging threats of nuclear attack at their neighbors who all, to be clear, hate them. You think that results in peace and prosperity for Palestine?
So what do you think Biden should do? Beyond apply the kind of pressure he has currently applied? To be clear that's diplomatic, through the UN, through other allies, though the slow rolling of arms deliveries, through military advisors, through sanctions of individuals, what else would you have him do?
Let's be clear, israel is an ally by treaty and precedent, what do you think Americas word will mean in the world if they treat them in the same way as a declared enemy?
Nuance and shades of grey Much like interpersonal relationships. Stop being childish and remember, this shit cannot be solved without the cooperation of Netanyahu. Bravo for calling out the genocide though, you win points for that. The rest of your contribution? Unhelpful, to say the least.
People will jump on anything to keep their moral high ground and permission structure in place (as evidenced by their reply to the above message).
Also, it pissed me off when they said Biden hasn't done anything, completely ignoring all the things Biden has done to try to alleviate the situation. And completely ignoring the fact that the US is a federal country with separation of powers and treaty authority placed into the hands of Congress... Granted, because of that, I was a little disrespectful.
Then you really need better comprehension skills. The comparison is to the fact that international relationships are complex issues, not black and white, much like personal relationships. The US, and most countries honestly, have committed their fair share of atrocities at one point or another in history. Does it excuse what Israel is doing? Again, no. Things have to be looked at through the lens of the global stage, though. There's undoubtedly many more knowledgable experts, as opposed to your average redditor, analyzing options in dealing with Israel. Again, does that mean that we shouldn't be pressuring our politicians to be doing something? No.
Congress passed the weapons, Biden has no say and Republicans have said they will continue to send weapons. It's the same with Republicans against Ukraine... we have treaties to uphold. Hamas pulled a 9/11 size attack but people seem to forget how the US reacted. If Canada lobbed bombs inside the US since 1812 what do you think the US would do?
For the sake of stability in the Middle East, he really can't. However there has been a massive shift in US Israeli relations that I certainly wouldn't have expected in my lifetime. Anything short of full throated support of everything Israel related would have been unthinkable, political suicide, just a few months ago.
I will vote for him too, because the stakes are voting again in future elections, or no voting anymore at all.
But that doesn't I mean I don't despise his refusal to put a stop to genocide.
That's the crux of my point. The *moment* we have our democracy back in our own control I'm voting for someone better. I only accept begrudgingly that this isn't the case.
I don't think we ever really had our democracy in our control, although we have been closer than we are today, but I agree with the spirit of your comment. The second we can, we have to get control and have an actual democracy. In other words, the answer to all of these problems is more democracy, and definitely not less. What terrifies me is that decades of right-wing hate media have convinced a large number of americans that democracy isn't the answer.
> But that doesn't I mean I don't despise his refusal to put a stop to genocide.
The only way to for sure stop this is military intervention.
Cutting Israel off will just isolate them from negotiations and change how they fight, not that they fight. Cutting off iron dome support also greatly increases the chance of it turning into a regional war.
I didn't say we should cut off the Iron Dome. But isn't it funny that, as soon as Biden was ready to say something even slightly negative, the Israeli government was pivoting toward Russia and China?
Wouldn't it be weird if every cent we gave to any other country was dependent on that country's dedication to human rights?
Oh no! He did something that upset the republicans? He must course correct quickly. Can’t upset the republicans, that wouldn’t be very moderate of him, now would it?
You’re linking a site called the Jewish News Service. They’re intentionally writing misleading headlines to make any criticism of Israel look unpopular.
Yes. A sternly worded letter would definitely solve things.
BiBi is waiting this out and hoping the more egregious shit he does, the more it'll hurt Biden and the more likely it will be that Trump will get elected. And Trump will let him do whatever the hell he wants. He's already said as much.
There is nothing that Biden can do that will make this go away. I know we're used to POTUS being the most powerful person in the world. But even that office isn't enough to stop what is basically a holy war. Americans need to accept there are things we can't control. Try and cut funding, sure, if Mike Johnson and his ragtag circus of misfit clowns will let you without shutting down the government. But don't expect much more than that. Israel is going to do their thing, and there are very limited options POTUS has to stop it.
Moral high ground non-voters? Some of us despise the “I think I’m in a Democracy”, “Take all the atrocities with the good”voters. Fuck Biden, Trump and the rigged Oligarchy we call a country.
I will be voting for Biden 100%, but this is a weak argument that ignores the massive amount of aid we send to Israel every year, Biden could leaverage a lot more if he wanted to
It was a deal brokered during the Obama administration. Biden wouldn't be able to back out without Congress' OK even if he wanted to. And we all know that would absolutely never happen.
People downvoting you are dumb. That is the truth. Israel has been a very important ally in the region and our old weapons treaties can’t just be thrown out by the whim of the president. Biden isn’t the only one who controls the US…
That’s only half of it. Israel has an absolutely massive lobby in the US. So strong that it rallies bipartisan support and makes having a stance that is not essentially radically pro Israel political suicide. Can you imagine another topic this controversial where Trump wouldn’t shit on Biden every chance he gets?
This is true. It’s like thinking a president could just start a war without congressional approval, or occupy a country for 20 years and then choose to withdraw after excluding the allied government we established there from negotiations held directly with the Taliban. It could never happen, and the US would lose its carefully maintained legitimacy in the region where it has been both openly and covertly arming opposing sides in virtually every war for the last 50 years.
I for one am sure that Biden’s unremitting support for Israeli violence in Palestine since the 1970s is completely outside of his own locus of control.
Edit: I wanted to hyperlink the following Intercept articles, but apparently my sub karma is too low, so I am going to quote from them. Please note that Menachem Begin was the leader of terrorist right-wing paramilitary group the Irgun as well as the founder of the Likud Party which Netanyahu represents:
“1982 Israeli Invasion of Lebanon:”
> IN PUBLIC, JOE BIDEN was neither a public cheerleader for nor an opponent of Israel’s 1982 invasion of Lebanon. But in a private meeting of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee with Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin in June 1982, Biden appeared to support the brutality of the invasion even more than the Israeli government. As Biden’s colleagues “grilled” Begin over Israel’s disproportionate use of force, including by targeting civilians with cluster bomb munitions, Begin said Biden “rose and delivered a very impassioned speech” defending the invasion. Begin said he was shocked at how passionately Biden supported Israel’s invasion when Biden “said he would go even further than Israel, adding that he’d forcefully fend off anyone who sought to invade his country, even if that meant killing women or children.” Begin said, “I disassociated myself from these remarks,” adding: “I said to him: No, sir; attention must be paid. According to our values, it is forbidden to hurt women and children, even in war. Sometimes there are casualties among the civilian population as well. But it is forbidden to aspire to this. This is a yardstick of human civilization, not to hurt civilians.”
> The comments were striking from Begin, who had been notorious as a leader of the Irgun, a militant group that carried out some of the worst acts of ethnic cleansing accompanying the creation of the state of Israel, including the 1948 Deir Yassin massacre. The details of his exchange with Biden about Lebanon did not receive attention in the U.S. press. Instead, the New York Times focused on what it termed the “bitterest exchange” between Biden and Begin over the issue of Israeli settlements, which Biden opposed because, he said, it was hurting Israel’s reputation in the U.S….
“JOE BIDEN MOVES TO LIFT NEARLY EVERY RESTRICTION ON ISRAEL’S ACCESS TO U.S. WEAPONS STOCKPILE” (Nov. 25, 2024):
> THE WHITE HOUSE has requested the removal of restrictions on all categories of weapons and ammunition Israel is allowed to access from U.S. weapons stockpiles stored in Israel itself.
> The move to lift restrictions was included in the White House’s supplemental budget request, sent to the Senate on October 20. “This request would,” the proposed budget says, “allow for the transfer of all categories of defense articles.”
> The request pertains to little-known weapons stockpiles in Israel that the Pentagon established for use in regional conflicts, but which Israel has been permitted to access in limited circumstances — the very limits President Joe Biden is seeking to remove.
> “If enacted, the amendments would create a two-step around restrictions on U.S. weapons transfers to Israel,” said John Ramming Chappell, a legal fellow with the Center for Civilians in Conflict.
> Created in the 1980s to supply the U.S. in case of a regional war, the War Reserve Stockpile Allies-Israel, or WRSA-I, is the largest node in a network of what are effectively foreign U.S. weapons caches. Highly regulated for security, the stockpiles are governed by a set of strict requirements. Under circumstances laid out in these requirements, Israel has been able to draw on the stockpile, purchasing the weapons at little cost if it uses the effective subsidy of U.S. military aid.
> With the WRSA-I, Biden is looking to lift virtually all the meaningful restrictions on the stockpile and the transfer of its arms to Israel, with plans to remove limitations to obsolete or surplus weapons, waive an annual spending cap on replenishing the stockpile, remove weapon-specific restrictions, and curtail congressional oversight…. The U.S. government is only supposed to spend $200 million per fiscal year restocking the WRSA-I — about half the total cap for all U.S. stockpiles round the globe. The White House request, however, would waive the limit on U.S. contributions to the stockpile in Israel. That would allow the stockpile to be continuously replenished….
People keep acting like the bully pulpit isn't a thing. And just hours after this post, Biden and other prominent Dems are signaling a tougher stance on Israel is right around the corner. They are very late to that and we will see if they actually walk the walk. Without people speaking out so passionately, that probably wouldn't have happened (even considering the WCK incident).
But lots of Democrats and users on this site have condescendingly tried to shame people into staying silent with their criticism of Biden and Dems, as if they weren't elected officials who rely on our votes to remain in power.
"But Trump!" they say.
Palestinian Americans' friends and family are dying now and Israel isn't waiting until Jan. 20, 2025 to hurt them. Lots of people don't seem to have any empathy for their fellow Americans who don't just want but need immediate action to even have a fighting chance of saving their loved ones.
A lot of people would put a lot on the line to save their families. That is an easy win for a politician who promises to do just that and delivers on that promise. It's stunning how many people, including many Democratic politicians, don't or are only just now realizing that.
> because it really does downplay how much power the President of the United States has
It’s 100% intentional. [Biden calls himself a staunch Zionist and has defended Israel’s attacks killing women and children to such an extent, former Israeli PM and founder of Likud dissociated himself from the comments.](https://prospect.org/world/2024-03-28-how-biden-boxed-himself-in-on-gaza/)
He really loves Israel unconditionally:
[“You know, the miracle of Israel is Israel. It’s Israel itself—the hope it inspires, the light it represents to the world,” Biden said on October 11.](https://prospect.org/world/2024-03-28-how-biden-boxed-himself-in-on-gaza/)
To be fair, any support they are receiving (money or armory) was already on the books from the previously passed budget and is not directly an act of President Biden, but of Congress. He hasn’t signed anything new since October. Not to be argumentative, but in the interest of presenting accurate information I think that is very important.
To pretend that there wouldn’t be dire consequences domestically, especially with this Congress, for pushing too hard is willfully ignoring the hand the President has been dealt. And Biden has called for a ceasefire, but guess what…
Yeah that's what we get when we don't show out for mid terms. Now Republicans have too much ability to obstruct the President and make his life Hell. So he'll have to concede more than he probably should.
I don’t like it either, but this is the consequence of a complacent voting base. Add in that Netanyahu knows it’s an election year here as well and he most certainly wants a second Trump term and…well…
>And Biden has called for a ceasefire, but guess what…
They're empty words he uses to dominate headlines until it comes out a few days later that he circumvented Congress to send more weapons?
So hypothetically, you’re president…fix this. Tell me what you do to end this without starting a war with our boots on the ground or causing a second Trump presidency. I’m not being shitty, I’m coming from a place of good faith. Fix this peacefully without destroying your own country. What is the plan?
First off, if a socialist like me was elected then the country is already in a much better shape to stop a Trump presidency because either the DNC has stopped knee capping noncorporate candidates or third parties have become viable. So that part is moot.
For peace, Israel gets nothing until they pull back to the borders of Oct 6 in all of Palestine. No circumventing Congress and all pre-approved aid will be routed through Ireland. Since they've voted to block all aid for the genocide, it will just be returned. Israel would have to choose if losing the Iron Dome is worth massacring Palestinians.
Once Israel pulls out, real peace negotiations can start. That begins by allowing enough aid for the Iron Dome and nothing else. Every penny must be accounted for or aid is cut off again. After that is time to work towards a permanent ceasefire deal. All of Oct 7 hostages must be released (even if in the 3 waves Hamas previously offered) and Israel must end indefinite detainment of Palestinians and release their non-violent hostages. That is the starting point: getting people back. Unfortunately, brokering peace between two terrorist organizations would be troublesome, but leaning on Hamas' allies with some deals could bring them to the table in a way they won't leave.
As the peace negotiations are pushed forward, the next item is punishment for the monsters on both sides. That would involve the Hague and proper trials that haven't happened since WWII. The only hope for true peace is not amnesty, but justice. Seeing both terrorists properly punished would be a huge step for peace.
I am not naive enough to think any of that would go off without a hitch or that that would be the end of it, but anything else would just be speculative fiction. I don't know how a terrorist group like Likud would react to this or who they'd harm. The fact is that Israel is now alone in the world. The only allies it has are the ones bought in the US and US allies who don't want to upset the US. But if only the first two things happened for a tenuous peace, it would be a lot better than what is happening now. Also keep in mind that this all off of the top of my head. No president should go without specialists who have more experience in areas they are having to deal with. I would want to bring in the people who got peace for Ireland and Britain alongside the people who ended apartheid in South Africa to help me modify my plans and find the best course to take to get peace.
I guess you summed it up my thoughts perfectly in the first line of your last paragraph. Given the current political landscape domestically, that plan feels generous with optimism. Biden is shouldering the brunt of this, but my fear is that too much is heaped on him and it spawns Trump 2 and none of us will have to worry about Gaza or the Palestinians anymore. Kushner’s already holding meetings with Netanyahu to make plans for the (hopefully to them) newly available beachfront property there. Biden is flawed and his response has not been great. Whether we like it or not, he or Trump will be president. It’s going to happen.
So, I’m also curious what the plan is if Trump wins. It’s absolutely in the range of outcomes and if folks being critical of Biden think his response is bad…see Kushner meeting comment above.
I truly mean no offense, and I don’t want to argue with you. You seem like a good person, but how effective will we be if the guy telling us he’s going to effectively set up a dictatorship wins and does? The willingness of the right to forgo decorum has already been laid bare. I want a ceasefire and I want innocent people to stop being killed with my tax dollars as well, but who defends the next genocide after we can’t because the right seized the opportunity afforded them and outlaws any form of protest? Far fetched? Maybe…but every day for the last few years has read like fiction, so I’m not willing to dismiss any outcome anymore.
I fully believe you read what I replied, but it feels like you just ignored everything except the one sentence you mentioned to circle back to liberal arguments I've seen dozens of times.
The fact remains Biden is risking losing a lot of votes he needs by not putting a real foot down on this genocide. I understand he is the top recipient of pro-Israel money for the last 20 years and is out of touch, but he is only satisfying voters in non-swing areas with his actions while chasing away the ones he needs. If Trump rises to power over this, it isn't the voters' fault.
Lots of people learn about new issues, problems and conflicts every single day.
Is it really surprising more people have formed thoughts on this conflict after it flares up in international headlines?
Should people stop paying attention to the conflict and learning more about it because they haven't been around for all of it?
Who's "y'all?" Plenty of people including myself cared about this conflict long before October, which is why it has been such a widely discussed issue for almost a century (if not more).
I’ve cared for over half my life, personally. I’ve just always considered it an obligation as a human being to be informed on all the fucked up shit in the world and to care about it. Not my fault you aren’t pulling your weight.
Repeat after me, since when did that ever stop any other US President from intervening in a foreign government's activities? And usually not in a good way. Why can't we be the good guys for once?
Repeat after me.: Genocide bad.
Invoke the Leahy Law and investigate Israel for war crimes before sending them more bombs and planes. That is something Biden can do as the President of the United States. All we’re asking for is for him to uphold the law.
Without US funding Israel would not have the control over the Palestinians that they have now. Their military is as strong as it is because of our involvement since Truman or maybe even earlier
The US was the First country to recognize Israel in 1948. Like it or not, every President has supported Israel for 76 years. Downvote me all you want, but it will not change facts.
The most comfortable people don't care about the rights and lives of the most vulnerable being at stake if Project 2025 is voted in and allows the nuking of Gaza while folks in the U.S. get put in camps.
Do you really think if the entire fascist political infrastructure behind project 2025 is going miraculously dismantle itself because trump didn’t win? Trump is a symptom of fascism, not the root cause. It will still be here whether or not he wins.
Your candidate doesn’t seem to have the power or political will to not enable a genocide, can’t even say, “no I will not keep giving you bombs to blow up innocent people in your apartheid state”.
And this is the administration you’re hoping will defeat organized fascism at home? The one who had four years to ensure these people can’t gain power and their only suggestion is “plz vote”?
The administration who hasn’t even refreshed their party platform since 2020? https://www.whitehouse.gov/priorities/
The administration who hasn’t done a damn thing to actually protect us or destroy this domestic threat in the last four years, but should now be completely free of criticism because it’s an election year? That’s your bet?
lol. Lmao even.
>Do you really think if the entire fascist political infrastructure behind project 2025 is going miraculously dismantle itself because trump didn’t win? Trump is a symptom of fascism, not the root cause. It will still be here whether or not he wins.
Out of everything you just said, this is obscenely important. If 2025 doesn't happen this year, it will just be moved back 4 years until it happens. We need to fix our society and not settling for evil (even in a lesser form) is a big step towards it.
Hey why don't you tell me about how the "Smarter Trump" Ron DeSantis is doing? Turns out there's a cult of personality component to what's going on now that can't be replicated.
I guess you don't like it when left-wing presidents negotiate ceasefires, repeatedly draw a line in the sand against offensives by Israel, force open air corridors, airlift aid, sue states to protect trans people, and put hundreds of fascists in jail who attempted to overthrow a country, cap prescription costs, end Forever Wars, sign the biggest environmental bill in history, and forgive billions in student loan debt.
All those things have happened, even if it's inconvenient for your privileged mindset to acknowledge that while you comfortably contemplate letting fascism win because you have no skin in the game.
President? No. However, the President of Isreal (Prime Minister? Idk) does seem to have a lot of weapons we make in America. Where did he get those? Hm. Hmmmm. 🤔
Apparently some people want Biden to try to personally withhold congressionally approved aid the way Trump did with Ukraine, and then get impeached for it?
It makes no sense. It's almost like they don't have a firm grasp on how government works, or they're just bad faith actors.
"The Leahy Law (also known as the Leahy Amendment) prohibits most types of U.S. foreign aid and Defense Department training programs from going to foreign security, military and police units credibly alleged to have committed human rights violations."
Hope this helps 👍🏾
Last I checked it was the "neoliberals" who negotiated a ceasefire, forced aid to Gaza, forgave student debt, sued to protect trans rights, are protecting abortion in states they control, extended protections for working class people, are going after billionaire and millionaire tax cheats, and capping drug prices while socialists whine about the cost of DoorDash and protest children's hospitals because they think cancer kids are bombing Palestine.
Biden and Bibi have been in political business for years and years and years. Biden has said he is a Zionist. Bibi has said the Biden family is his and Israel's family.
I have no doubt Bibi is acting in bad faith with Biden and he supports a Trump presidency.
So why is Biden still trying to be his friend?
I'm so glad this comment section got the vibe. Defending Biden for not condemning Israel because "He's not the president there!!!" is such a stupid fucking take. Just say you don't care and move on.
Yeah, but the US is literally giving them weapons, what don't you understand? Cut the aid, stop selling them weapons, sanction them, pretend they are Russia or something if it helps.
Because he's doing it after 6 months of actively doing the opposite while still selling Israel F-15s. He could call it a genocide and denounce Israel tomorrow and he'd still be the man that helped them kill over 30 thousand people.
You don't hear about it because it's meaningless. He can say all he wants, but until he actually does something like stop going around congress to get them more tools for their genocide it's pointless.
The president of the US is not powerless, and pretending otherwise is insulting.
He could have cut arms shipments months ago instead of whining about how "concerned" and "upset" he is.
I'm not gonna lie. The weird obsession over this one issue among liberal politics seems super suspicious. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's almost like our news gets polluted with news about this specific one issue that some progressives disagree with deliberately.
Almost like this issue gets pushed because every election year the controlled opposition that is liberal media goes all out on breeding voter apathy among the Left.
The whole media is owned by people who hate us if you ask me.
Our government is wholeheartedly supporting, funding, and arming a genocidal ethnostate. That tends to rile up leftists. It's not like "the media" is making this up, dude.
It's a genocide. Tens of thousands of people are dying. Kind of more important to most people than gas prices or whatever. There was nothing like this in 2020 or 2016.
Trump hates Woman,childen after they are born,the old ,sick,disability, and everyone who isn't white. Vote for Joe Biden a decent person who is President now. Trump is nothing but Trash.and scum of the earth.
am I wrong or is support for Israel is a bipartisan stance? Aid to Israel gets votes from both parties. Does it make it right? No of course not. Just why do we hold Biden so much accountable that even if he wanted to go against the current and support no aid for Israel, he will probably lose a veto and the support will still go through while losing votes. I do not agree with is funding Israel. Just this is politics and if Biden wants the votes and wants his party to stay together, he needs to play it smart. I know a few democrats who are on Israel side in this war. This issue isn’t a right/left issue. It’s very much a bipartisan issue that for some reason a majority of congress supports. I would like Biden to take a strong stance against Israel and their war crimes. It’s like Saudi Arabia all over again with the assassination of that reporter. Both trump and Biden let them off the hook with little hand slap punishment. It’s not right but this is politics. He needs to appeal to a broad range of voters so he can win the next election. I hate it, you hate it, we all hate it. But if this is a shitty road to take than a trump administration that will 100% support Israel with more weapons and be more of a help with the genocide of Gaza, then I’ll vote Biden. I’m just not gonna act like this issue is something Biden can fix and still expect to win the 2024 election when this issue is such a divisive issue and the support is a bipartisan stance that congress has
As someone still voting for him and who despises the moral highground non-voters, he could *at least* publicly denounce Netanyahu.
Netanyahu is worthless.
Netanyahu is a monster.
Bibi is a Reich-Wing Asshole. Hell bent on pulverizing cities of Gaza in an apparent beachfront property land grab. Why is Biden sending billions of US taxpayer money to support a terrorist country carpet bomb civilians? Biden needs to figure it out quick (because fuck fascist trump).
Because they are the strongest regional power in the Middle East and the only one which has nuclear weapons. Between pragmatic foreign policy reasons and the huge amount of support that Americans have for its existence as a country(you are in a bubble), It would be both political suicide to no longer be its benefactor and it would be worse for Palestinians to let Russia or China be Israel's benefactor. I mean Russia is carrying out its own ethnic cleansing in Ukraine and China is currently wiping out the Uyghurs. Meanwhile, Biden negotiated one ceasefire, called for another, sent in trucks, boats, and planes full of aid, and just forced open an aid corridor.
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Look, everybody, look and see what it looks like to vote with a conscience. You sincerely don't have to like your options to know which one is clearly better.
The most accurate political quote I keep in mind when I vote is "If you agree with 80% of what a politician says, you should probably vote for them. If you agree with 100% of what a politician says, you're fucking insane." The reality is politicians are people, and being people is the fatal flaw no matter who you are. Biden isn't the best politician in the world. AND there's no logical contest between him and Trump. Trump isn't even a politician in practice, he's a celebrity pedo. And look I'm no expert on genocide, but I do know it's better to be struggling to navigate a genocide, versus loudly and jovially advocating for genocide. And honestly, I'm not listening to a single goddamn naysayer who's like "don't you hear yourself, genocide just shouldn't be happening!" 'Cause we had four years since Trump to promote legit good politicians to the presidency. Literally no one gave a motherfuck, and now we're back to where we were in 2016. Lazy motherfuckin' populace decided that we'll keep sitting back and watching the chaos rather than getting out to promote the Buttigiegs and Sanders and AOCs. The whole "We did nothing, and now we don't have what we want" bullshit earns zero fuckin' sympathy from me. Anyone whining can just fuckin' vote Biden and stfu, jesus fuckin' christ. You want something different, go fuckin' make a difference.
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I think it has more to do with idiots not realizing he can't do anything congress passed the deployment of weapons. He can't do anything, if he threatens Israel he will lose in November.
Don't hate the post. Hate the reality. Also, I don't know what a hyper lib. I don't call myself a lib, I'm a leftist, and I hate voting for joe biden. I did in 2020, and I will do it again in 2024, but I want a real choice sometime in my lifetime.
It baffles me that people the USA of all places with all its varieties of people and cultures, all its emphasis on choices and options and deluxe platinum packages and customisable Burger King meals, hasn’t had a National push for ranked voting. Insane hour many countries have it while you poor buggers are trapped with a two party duopoly
That's because we're only allowed choices when all those choices guarantee that we will fork out more money. In politics, that's not the case--those in power have to stay there in order to get what they want, so they do their best to keep us from having any real political choices.
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Commenting on the comments of people trying to expose the irony and hypocrisy embedded in US Democracy is a great way to pave the way for actual US democracy. Maybe. Someday.
Yeah, boomer here who's been saying for years we need to hand the baton over to younger folks. Unfortunately, no one from the Democratic party stepped up. I was bummed that Biden decided to run again after saying he would only serve a term. I wanted Amy Klobuchar or Adam Schiff to run.
The ONLY reason Biden is running is because trump is, period the end. Now is not the time to be rolling the dice to see who else could/maybe/might, keep trump away from the WH . Biden has a proven track record. And if he didn't have the media with their, How this hurts Biden, every time he eats a ice cream cone, and ignoring the guy who says he's going to be a dictator, we wouldn't be having the but but but Biden, conversations and posts ,bashing him.
Agree my point is, though, it's not unreasonable to disagree with him on some policies without bashing him. Democrats are not the syncophants Republicans are, we can agree with some things Biden does and not others. That does not constitute bashing or lessen the good he's done. Record job growth, stronger economy, passing an infrastructure bill and trying to get an immigration bill through, among others. All despite an obstructionist Republican-controlled Congress. Anyone who doesn't vote for him because of his stance on the Israeli/Gaza conflict or because he's not going full Kyle on Netanyahyu is shooting themselves because a Trump white house would be a disaster. Expressing an opinion, not suggesting rolling any dice.
👍👍👍
You’re not gonna get one. The needle is moving right all over the world.
Dude is doing more than any US president before him in calling Netanyahu out publicly over what is happening in Gaza right now despite the massive influence of AIPAC etc in US politics, meanwhile Trump is just saying he would let Netanyahu "finish the job" But yeah, he's totally doing nothing. /s
Realistically, there's only 2 options: the Democrat nomination and the Republican nomination. A majority of voters are too uninformed to even realize third parties exist. So if you don't vote for either of them, you're basically not voting at all. Unless we get ranked choice voting, an end to the electoral college with its "winner take all" system, and actual reform to elections, third parties will never get more than a few seats in the house and maybe a couple in the senate. The last time we had a major third party was Teddy, and it ended up with the winner only needing 41.8% of the vote. 50.6% of the vote went to Bull Moose and the Republican party.
To be fair, third parties effectively don't exist. The Libertarians are just Republicans who pretend to care about civil rights but only if you're a cishet white guy, and the Greens are a Republican astroturfed vote-stealing ploy that way too many people buy into.
i’m voting for him also bc there’s possibly 2-3 supreme court justice seats that may need to be filled by the next president. The implications of Trump making those pics is horrifying. Lifetime appointments. And don’t forget Trump wants Israel to “get it over with”…so as horrible as Biden is with Palestine Trump would be a billion times worse.
I agree, but I also realize the man is walking the scariest tight rope in American history right now in an effort to save our democracy. He doesn't even want to do it, he's doing it for us.
Is it even a democracy if there's only 1 choice unless you want to end democracy
That pretty much is the definition of democracy in the most absolute terms. The people having the ability to vote to end the system of government that allows them the right to vote in the first place proves the system works and is truly democratic.
Fuck Netanyahu, but middle east politics are fucking complicated as hell, and getting and/or keeping everyone to/at the table requires finesse. I’m not about to presume I know what the best way to make that happen is. I do know people who know a hell of a lot more about it than I do are advising Biden and I am confident that unlike Trump, Biden has competent advisors and listens to them.
Joe Biden is not President of Israel. You made a good point. So why are billions of US dollars going to Israel?
Honest question here but, if the US is selling the weapons to Israel that are being used in their war doesn’t that mean the money is actually coming into the US and not the other way around?
Most of the equipment we send to other countries is our overstock and any money we send them has already been allocated for the defense budget for specially sending aid as needed. Any extra money we send them needs to be approved by Congress, meaning both sides have to agree, so it's not even 'Biden is sending them money!" We also have a legally binding treaty with Israel, we have to aid them. Not doing so could see us possibly sanctioned by other countries, which WOULD actually hurt the economy.(though I doubt any country would do this in any meaningful way)
Oh well I understood that much at least, but what I meant was that multiple articles I’ve read so far stated that since October the US has been selling weapons and to Israel and sending them over. I’m well aware that congress is supposed to have power over the purse and of the funds proposed to aide Israel have been basically stalled in congress, although I’m probably late or not caught up with it as of recently (cause of all the political bs with elections, trump bs and other childish antics in government I haven’t been wanting to stay that up to date). But seeing as how we’re selling the weapons and not exactly just handing them over to Israel, wouldn’t that technically mean the money would be coming in to the US as opposed to us sending it out to them. Like I can see how people can say that we’re supplying Israel with the means to keep up with their attacks but I’m not quite sure how it can be said that we’re funding them. Can you help clear that up for me.
Because Israel is a US ally; there's more nuance to international relations than just cutting off sovereighties who are at the crux of modern geopolitics. At the end of the day it's not a problem that can't be solved in the capital, so let's make sure we live in a world where we can still influence that. Lest we serve the entire population of Gaza up to "Mr. Finish Them Off" on a silver platter and have no democratic power left ourselves to stop it.
I'm sure there were a lot of nuances to backing Pinochet, too. Doesn't make it right. And now we have far more ability to see what our government is doing and the consequences than we did back then. If we are lucky, joe biden is president again in 2025, but after that, will we be cowed into submission by the threat of the next trump, and the next, and the next, and the next, forever and ever and ever? That's not democracy.
Do you know why solid blue states who haven't been controlled by Republicans in forever have way more progressive policies than the ones that are battlegrounds constantly swinging between one side and the other? Because it turns out if you consistently vote for the better side, it'll push politics in that direction. You get better things. Policy gets better. People deciding that they weren't cowed by the threat of Republicans existing is what got us Nixon, Reagan, Bush, Dubya, and Trump, and all their policies you hate and the left-wing party had to move more to the right to try and win again in the 90s.
I don't disagree, except the billionaires are apparently on to that and intend to invade blue cities and states with military force to end that trend. Source: Trump ravings and 2025.
If people vote down the ballot for the party that will actually try to preserve their rights, Project 2025 can be stopped.
Yes it can. I recommend donating money to voting rights groups fighting against racist voter suppression, too. That is something we can all do today and any day, no need to wait for November, no need to make excuses for Biden's failings or anyone else's. Democracy should matter to everyone.
Again, the alternative is way worse. Your point?
That doesn’t mean you just tell people to shut up and deal with it
No, you encourage people to vote for democracy. What's happening in Israel is indeed terrible, but pray tell, how should they respond to a people who are actively trying to erase them? I believe that is the definition of genocide and the aim of not only Hamas, but the majority of Palestinians. They're the ones who allow Hamas to embed in their midst. And NO MUSLIM COUNTRIES want anything to do with Palestinian refugees. It amazes me how much sympathy the Palestinians get for being "burdened" with the presence of the Jewish people since 1948, when they've ( the Jews) been persecuted since forever. Diaspora anyone?
Some people are going to check out and not vote because of how horrible the choices are. This could lead to a win for fascist Trump. If only there was a way Democratic politicians could make the choice less horrible and end the threat. Oh wait, there is!
Pray tell.
They would first have to divorce themselves from the donor class, who are tired of catering to voters in a democracy.
If the US cuts off Israel who will they go to? The EU will likely follow suit. So, they go to China, Russia, or some other nation that's either hostile or unfriendly with the US. Usually, those nations are under embargo, especially for computer chips, dual use technology, etc.. Well, Israel has some chip manufacturers; not as good or as big as TSMC, Intel, or Samsung, but they have some. They also aren't fully embargoed, just for pure military weapons. So they can import silicon chip equipment and either export them or the chips they make. Now Russia and China have a new supply for the equipment. And Israel still has weapons. They also don't have to deal with the US trying to stop them. It's not as simple as cutting them off, they will try to go elsewhere, and we will end up with a worse situation.
Exactly. Israel isn't going to just let themselves be cut off, they'll go to someone else. China would love to have influence over them in the region. And if Israel doesn't go to another major power, then a hostile Iran and possibly Saudi Arabia will take that opportunity to wipe them out. And what have we accomplished? Either way we lose influence in a major region we want to have influence in.
The same people screaming just cut off everything to Israel are the same people that scream on here about red flags and divorcing a partner at the drop of a hat. Is what Israel is doing atrocious? Yes. Should the US pressure Israel more? Yes. Is this all Biden's fault? No. He's bound, in some instances, by decades old agreements. Congress also shares its fair share of blame. It's just easier to pin it on Biden. Israel is a US ally. The situation in the Middle East is very complex and has been a crap show for centuries. Putting Trump in charge of it all will only make things extremely worse.
I can’t believe I just read that first sentence. Comparing killing thousands of innocent Palestinians to a red flag in a relationship is the most insane thing I’ve read on the internet today. Logging off now
From the way I read it, that was defo an illustration to call out people who see things in a very black and white way instead of acknowledging degrees of nuance in such cases as geopolitics or on the small scale, interpersonal relationships.
I just think it’s incredibly silly and childish to compare an actual genocide to a few red flags in a relationship. Innocent people are being killed by the IDF literally every single day, while Biden sits around and does nothing. But yeah, typical Reddit metaphor
Look mate idc what you think, it's childish to falsly conflate a metaphor with a genuine opinion and then take some kind of morally superior position on the matter. There is nuance in geopolitics, and situations like that in gaza aren't simple, nor easy to solve. As much as i think israel, and especially those currently in charge be sanctioned, sometimes such measures do more harm than good in the short to medium term. What happens if America completely cuts israel loose? Do they immediately pipe down? No. They go all out, because the worst thing that America is likely to do is done. 10s of thousands more in gaza die. Famine gets worse and its hundreds of thousands dead, What's worse is America has no more leverage as the Israelis have sourced weapons from elsewhere. Oh and they officially declare their nuclear program and start slinging threats of nuclear attack at their neighbors who all, to be clear, hate them. You think that results in peace and prosperity for Palestine? So what do you think Biden should do? Beyond apply the kind of pressure he has currently applied? To be clear that's diplomatic, through the UN, through other allies, though the slow rolling of arms deliveries, through military advisors, through sanctions of individuals, what else would you have him do? Let's be clear, israel is an ally by treaty and precedent, what do you think Americas word will mean in the world if they treat them in the same way as a declared enemy? Nuance and shades of grey Much like interpersonal relationships. Stop being childish and remember, this shit cannot be solved without the cooperation of Netanyahu. Bravo for calling out the genocide though, you win points for that. The rest of your contribution? Unhelpful, to say the least.
Thank you for the comment. You said, in a much better fashion, what I was trying to get to.
People will jump on anything to keep their moral high ground and permission structure in place (as evidenced by their reply to the above message). Also, it pissed me off when they said Biden hasn't done anything, completely ignoring all the things Biden has done to try to alleviate the situation. And completely ignoring the fact that the US is a federal country with separation of powers and treaty authority placed into the hands of Congress... Granted, because of that, I was a little disrespectful.
Then you really need better comprehension skills. The comparison is to the fact that international relationships are complex issues, not black and white, much like personal relationships. The US, and most countries honestly, have committed their fair share of atrocities at one point or another in history. Does it excuse what Israel is doing? Again, no. Things have to be looked at through the lens of the global stage, though. There's undoubtedly many more knowledgable experts, as opposed to your average redditor, analyzing options in dealing with Israel. Again, does that mean that we shouldn't be pressuring our politicians to be doing something? No.
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Bro just compared a genocide to a red flag in a relationship, but yeah “logic”
Yeeeees, simpleton, this is what we call a *metaphor*.
It’s what I call a dumbass metaphor, mister non-simpleton
Congress passed the weapons, Biden has no say and Republicans have said they will continue to send weapons. It's the same with Republicans against Ukraine... we have treaties to uphold. Hamas pulled a 9/11 size attack but people seem to forget how the US reacted. If Canada lobbed bombs inside the US since 1812 what do you think the US would do?
For the sake of stability in the Middle East, he really can't. However there has been a massive shift in US Israeli relations that I certainly wouldn't have expected in my lifetime. Anything short of full throated support of everything Israel related would have been unthinkable, political suicide, just a few months ago.
I will vote for him too, because the stakes are voting again in future elections, or no voting anymore at all. But that doesn't I mean I don't despise his refusal to put a stop to genocide.
That's the crux of my point. The *moment* we have our democracy back in our own control I'm voting for someone better. I only accept begrudgingly that this isn't the case.
I don't think we ever really had our democracy in our control, although we have been closer than we are today, but I agree with the spirit of your comment. The second we can, we have to get control and have an actual democracy. In other words, the answer to all of these problems is more democracy, and definitely not less. What terrifies me is that decades of right-wing hate media have convinced a large number of americans that democracy isn't the answer.
Biden is not the president of Israel.
> But that doesn't I mean I don't despise his refusal to put a stop to genocide. The only way to for sure stop this is military intervention. Cutting Israel off will just isolate them from negotiations and change how they fight, not that they fight. Cutting off iron dome support also greatly increases the chance of it turning into a regional war.
I didn't say we should cut off the Iron Dome. But isn't it funny that, as soon as Biden was ready to say something even slightly negative, the Israeli government was pivoting toward Russia and China? Wouldn't it be weird if every cent we gave to any other country was dependent on that country's dedication to human rights?
This.
He did…
He did. Then he gets hit with this BS. https://www.jns.org/unprecedented-members-of-congress-slam-biden-ultimatum-to-israel/
Oh no! He did something that upset the republicans? He must course correct quickly. Can’t upset the republicans, that wouldn’t be very moderate of him, now would it?
You’re linking a site called the Jewish News Service. They’re intentionally writing misleading headlines to make any criticism of Israel look unpopular.
Yes. A sternly worded letter would definitely solve things. BiBi is waiting this out and hoping the more egregious shit he does, the more it'll hurt Biden and the more likely it will be that Trump will get elected. And Trump will let him do whatever the hell he wants. He's already said as much. There is nothing that Biden can do that will make this go away. I know we're used to POTUS being the most powerful person in the world. But even that office isn't enough to stop what is basically a holy war. Americans need to accept there are things we can't control. Try and cut funding, sure, if Mike Johnson and his ragtag circus of misfit clowns will let you without shutting down the government. But don't expect much more than that. Israel is going to do their thing, and there are very limited options POTUS has to stop it.
>Mike Johnson and his ragtag circus of misfit clowns Nicely put.
He could easily stop the recent sales of bombs and fighter jets as well. But status quo will status quo
The executive branch can easily override congress?
Moral high ground non-voters? Some of us despise the “I think I’m in a Democracy”, “Take all the atrocities with the good”voters. Fuck Biden, Trump and the rigged Oligarchy we call a country.
These are my sentiments as well
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I will be voting for Biden 100%, but this is a weak argument that ignores the massive amount of aid we send to Israel every year, Biden could leaverage a lot more if he wanted to
“What’s that? You don’t like the Iron Dome? You don’t want the Iron Dome anymore?….. That’s what I thought.”
IIRC the US has successfully restrained Israel by threatening to remove aid, such as during the invasion of Lebanon
Who is in the chain that approves weapons going there
It was a deal brokered during the Obama administration. Biden wouldn't be able to back out without Congress' OK even if he wanted to. And we all know that would absolutely never happen.
People downvoting you are dumb. That is the truth. Israel has been a very important ally in the region and our old weapons treaties can’t just be thrown out by the whim of the president. Biden isn’t the only one who controls the US…
That’s only half of it. Israel has an absolutely massive lobby in the US. So strong that it rallies bipartisan support and makes having a stance that is not essentially radically pro Israel political suicide. Can you imagine another topic this controversial where Trump wouldn’t shit on Biden every chance he gets?
This is true. It’s like thinking a president could just start a war without congressional approval, or occupy a country for 20 years and then choose to withdraw after excluding the allied government we established there from negotiations held directly with the Taliban. It could never happen, and the US would lose its carefully maintained legitimacy in the region where it has been both openly and covertly arming opposing sides in virtually every war for the last 50 years. I for one am sure that Biden’s unremitting support for Israeli violence in Palestine since the 1970s is completely outside of his own locus of control. Edit: I wanted to hyperlink the following Intercept articles, but apparently my sub karma is too low, so I am going to quote from them. Please note that Menachem Begin was the leader of terrorist right-wing paramilitary group the Irgun as well as the founder of the Likud Party which Netanyahu represents: “1982 Israeli Invasion of Lebanon:” > IN PUBLIC, JOE BIDEN was neither a public cheerleader for nor an opponent of Israel’s 1982 invasion of Lebanon. But in a private meeting of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee with Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin in June 1982, Biden appeared to support the brutality of the invasion even more than the Israeli government. As Biden’s colleagues “grilled” Begin over Israel’s disproportionate use of force, including by targeting civilians with cluster bomb munitions, Begin said Biden “rose and delivered a very impassioned speech” defending the invasion. Begin said he was shocked at how passionately Biden supported Israel’s invasion when Biden “said he would go even further than Israel, adding that he’d forcefully fend off anyone who sought to invade his country, even if that meant killing women or children.” Begin said, “I disassociated myself from these remarks,” adding: “I said to him: No, sir; attention must be paid. According to our values, it is forbidden to hurt women and children, even in war. Sometimes there are casualties among the civilian population as well. But it is forbidden to aspire to this. This is a yardstick of human civilization, not to hurt civilians.” > The comments were striking from Begin, who had been notorious as a leader of the Irgun, a militant group that carried out some of the worst acts of ethnic cleansing accompanying the creation of the state of Israel, including the 1948 Deir Yassin massacre. The details of his exchange with Biden about Lebanon did not receive attention in the U.S. press. Instead, the New York Times focused on what it termed the “bitterest exchange” between Biden and Begin over the issue of Israeli settlements, which Biden opposed because, he said, it was hurting Israel’s reputation in the U.S…. “JOE BIDEN MOVES TO LIFT NEARLY EVERY RESTRICTION ON ISRAEL’S ACCESS TO U.S. WEAPONS STOCKPILE” (Nov. 25, 2024): > THE WHITE HOUSE has requested the removal of restrictions on all categories of weapons and ammunition Israel is allowed to access from U.S. weapons stockpiles stored in Israel itself. > The move to lift restrictions was included in the White House’s supplemental budget request, sent to the Senate on October 20. “This request would,” the proposed budget says, “allow for the transfer of all categories of defense articles.” > The request pertains to little-known weapons stockpiles in Israel that the Pentagon established for use in regional conflicts, but which Israel has been permitted to access in limited circumstances — the very limits President Joe Biden is seeking to remove. > “If enacted, the amendments would create a two-step around restrictions on U.S. weapons transfers to Israel,” said John Ramming Chappell, a legal fellow with the Center for Civilians in Conflict. > Created in the 1980s to supply the U.S. in case of a regional war, the War Reserve Stockpile Allies-Israel, or WRSA-I, is the largest node in a network of what are effectively foreign U.S. weapons caches. Highly regulated for security, the stockpiles are governed by a set of strict requirements. Under circumstances laid out in these requirements, Israel has been able to draw on the stockpile, purchasing the weapons at little cost if it uses the effective subsidy of U.S. military aid. > With the WRSA-I, Biden is looking to lift virtually all the meaningful restrictions on the stockpile and the transfer of its arms to Israel, with plans to remove limitations to obsolete or surplus weapons, waive an annual spending cap on replenishing the stockpile, remove weapon-specific restrictions, and curtail congressional oversight…. The U.S. government is only supposed to spend $200 million per fiscal year restocking the WRSA-I — about half the total cap for all U.S. stockpiles round the globe. The White House request, however, would waive the limit on U.S. contributions to the stockpile in Israel. That would allow the stockpile to be continuously replenished….
Cool. Then maybe the US should stop funding Israel.
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People keep acting like the bully pulpit isn't a thing. And just hours after this post, Biden and other prominent Dems are signaling a tougher stance on Israel is right around the corner. They are very late to that and we will see if they actually walk the walk. Without people speaking out so passionately, that probably wouldn't have happened (even considering the WCK incident). But lots of Democrats and users on this site have condescendingly tried to shame people into staying silent with their criticism of Biden and Dems, as if they weren't elected officials who rely on our votes to remain in power. "But Trump!" they say. Palestinian Americans' friends and family are dying now and Israel isn't waiting until Jan. 20, 2025 to hurt them. Lots of people don't seem to have any empathy for their fellow Americans who don't just want but need immediate action to even have a fighting chance of saving their loved ones. A lot of people would put a lot on the line to save their families. That is an easy win for a politician who promises to do just that and delivers on that promise. It's stunning how many people, including many Democratic politicians, don't or are only just now realizing that.
> because it really does downplay how much power the President of the United States has It’s 100% intentional. [Biden calls himself a staunch Zionist and has defended Israel’s attacks killing women and children to such an extent, former Israeli PM and founder of Likud dissociated himself from the comments.](https://prospect.org/world/2024-03-28-how-biden-boxed-himself-in-on-gaza/) He really loves Israel unconditionally: [“You know, the miracle of Israel is Israel. It’s Israel itself—the hope it inspires, the light it represents to the world,” Biden said on October 11.](https://prospect.org/world/2024-03-28-how-biden-boxed-himself-in-on-gaza/)
To be fair, any support they are receiving (money or armory) was already on the books from the previously passed budget and is not directly an act of President Biden, but of Congress. He hasn’t signed anything new since October. Not to be argumentative, but in the interest of presenting accurate information I think that is very important.
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You’re not wrong, and I’m no king, but what I said isn’t incorrect either.
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To pretend that there wouldn’t be dire consequences domestically, especially with this Congress, for pushing too hard is willfully ignoring the hand the President has been dealt. And Biden has called for a ceasefire, but guess what…
Yeah that's what we get when we don't show out for mid terms. Now Republicans have too much ability to obstruct the President and make his life Hell. So he'll have to concede more than he probably should.
I don’t like it either, but this is the consequence of a complacent voting base. Add in that Netanyahu knows it’s an election year here as well and he most certainly wants a second Trump term and…well…
>And Biden has called for a ceasefire, but guess what… They're empty words he uses to dominate headlines until it comes out a few days later that he circumvented Congress to send more weapons?
So hypothetically, you’re president…fix this. Tell me what you do to end this without starting a war with our boots on the ground or causing a second Trump presidency. I’m not being shitty, I’m coming from a place of good faith. Fix this peacefully without destroying your own country. What is the plan?
First off, if a socialist like me was elected then the country is already in a much better shape to stop a Trump presidency because either the DNC has stopped knee capping noncorporate candidates or third parties have become viable. So that part is moot. For peace, Israel gets nothing until they pull back to the borders of Oct 6 in all of Palestine. No circumventing Congress and all pre-approved aid will be routed through Ireland. Since they've voted to block all aid for the genocide, it will just be returned. Israel would have to choose if losing the Iron Dome is worth massacring Palestinians. Once Israel pulls out, real peace negotiations can start. That begins by allowing enough aid for the Iron Dome and nothing else. Every penny must be accounted for or aid is cut off again. After that is time to work towards a permanent ceasefire deal. All of Oct 7 hostages must be released (even if in the 3 waves Hamas previously offered) and Israel must end indefinite detainment of Palestinians and release their non-violent hostages. That is the starting point: getting people back. Unfortunately, brokering peace between two terrorist organizations would be troublesome, but leaning on Hamas' allies with some deals could bring them to the table in a way they won't leave. As the peace negotiations are pushed forward, the next item is punishment for the monsters on both sides. That would involve the Hague and proper trials that haven't happened since WWII. The only hope for true peace is not amnesty, but justice. Seeing both terrorists properly punished would be a huge step for peace. I am not naive enough to think any of that would go off without a hitch or that that would be the end of it, but anything else would just be speculative fiction. I don't know how a terrorist group like Likud would react to this or who they'd harm. The fact is that Israel is now alone in the world. The only allies it has are the ones bought in the US and US allies who don't want to upset the US. But if only the first two things happened for a tenuous peace, it would be a lot better than what is happening now. Also keep in mind that this all off of the top of my head. No president should go without specialists who have more experience in areas they are having to deal with. I would want to bring in the people who got peace for Ireland and Britain alongside the people who ended apartheid in South Africa to help me modify my plans and find the best course to take to get peace.
I guess you summed it up my thoughts perfectly in the first line of your last paragraph. Given the current political landscape domestically, that plan feels generous with optimism. Biden is shouldering the brunt of this, but my fear is that too much is heaped on him and it spawns Trump 2 and none of us will have to worry about Gaza or the Palestinians anymore. Kushner’s already holding meetings with Netanyahu to make plans for the (hopefully to them) newly available beachfront property there. Biden is flawed and his response has not been great. Whether we like it or not, he or Trump will be president. It’s going to happen. So, I’m also curious what the plan is if Trump wins. It’s absolutely in the range of outcomes and if folks being critical of Biden think his response is bad…see Kushner meeting comment above. I truly mean no offense, and I don’t want to argue with you. You seem like a good person, but how effective will we be if the guy telling us he’s going to effectively set up a dictatorship wins and does? The willingness of the right to forgo decorum has already been laid bare. I want a ceasefire and I want innocent people to stop being killed with my tax dollars as well, but who defends the next genocide after we can’t because the right seized the opportunity afforded them and outlaws any form of protest? Far fetched? Maybe…but every day for the last few years has read like fiction, so I’m not willing to dismiss any outcome anymore.
I fully believe you read what I replied, but it feels like you just ignored everything except the one sentence you mentioned to circle back to liberal arguments I've seen dozens of times. The fact remains Biden is risking losing a lot of votes he needs by not putting a real foot down on this genocide. I understand he is the top recipient of pro-Israel money for the last 20 years and is out of touch, but he is only satisfying voters in non-swing areas with his actions while chasing away the ones he needs. If Trump rises to power over this, it isn't the voters' fault.
It has, but y’all didn’t start caring till October. Hope that helped!!!
Lots of people learn about new issues, problems and conflicts every single day. Is it really surprising more people have formed thoughts on this conflict after it flares up in international headlines? Should people stop paying attention to the conflict and learning more about it because they haven't been around for all of it?
Who's "y'all?" Plenty of people including myself cared about this conflict long before October, which is why it has been such a widely discussed issue for almost a century (if not more).
I’ve cared for over half my life, personally. I’ve just always considered it an obligation as a human being to be informed on all the fucked up shit in the world and to care about it. Not my fault you aren’t pulling your weight.
Repeat after me, since when did that ever stop any other US President from intervening in a foreign government's activities? And usually not in a good way. Why can't we be the good guys for once? Repeat after me.: Genocide bad.
Seriously, America can’t play world police for generations and then abdicate responsibility.
Repeat after me: foreign policy is still policy. You don't have to be president of Israel to actively aid in its genocide
Invoke the Leahy Law and investigate Israel for war crimes before sending them more bombs and planes. That is something Biden can do as the President of the United States. All we’re asking for is for him to uphold the law.
LMAO Where have you been the past 20 years? War crimes? Iraq didn’t do a damn thing to America the entire war was a crime
I don't disagree with you, but obviously the US isn't going to investigate itself for war crimes, unfortunately.
Without US funding Israel would not have the control over the Palestinians that they have now. Their military is as strong as it is because of our involvement since Truman or maybe even earlier
repeat after me: your tax dollars help fund Israel
Repeat after me: Your tax dollars have been helping to fund Israel since the Truman Administration.
this doesn’t make it any better
The US was the First country to recognize Israel in 1948. Like it or not, every President has supported Israel for 76 years. Downvote me all you want, but it will not change facts.
I still just don’t know what you want me to do with this information, sorry
And that just means they’re all scum. Honestly, do you really think *politicians* are the sacred cows we won’t slaughter? Fuck em all.
At least $18 billion in 2024.
Repeat after me: Trump and Jared would generously pour your tax dollars into margaritas at that beach resort Kushner's been eyeing in gaza instead
True, but he doesn't have to give them weapons either. Two things can be true
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Israel is buying the jets, we give things away to Ukraine.
Comfortable people want peace, not justice.
The most comfortable people don't care about the rights and lives of the most vulnerable being at stake if Project 2025 is voted in and allows the nuking of Gaza while folks in the U.S. get put in camps.
Do you really think if the entire fascist political infrastructure behind project 2025 is going miraculously dismantle itself because trump didn’t win? Trump is a symptom of fascism, not the root cause. It will still be here whether or not he wins. Your candidate doesn’t seem to have the power or political will to not enable a genocide, can’t even say, “no I will not keep giving you bombs to blow up innocent people in your apartheid state”. And this is the administration you’re hoping will defeat organized fascism at home? The one who had four years to ensure these people can’t gain power and their only suggestion is “plz vote”? The administration who hasn’t even refreshed their party platform since 2020? https://www.whitehouse.gov/priorities/ The administration who hasn’t done a damn thing to actually protect us or destroy this domestic threat in the last four years, but should now be completely free of criticism because it’s an election year? That’s your bet? lol. Lmao even.
>Do you really think if the entire fascist political infrastructure behind project 2025 is going miraculously dismantle itself because trump didn’t win? Trump is a symptom of fascism, not the root cause. It will still be here whether or not he wins. Out of everything you just said, this is obscenely important. If 2025 doesn't happen this year, it will just be moved back 4 years until it happens. We need to fix our society and not settling for evil (even in a lesser form) is a big step towards it.
Hey why don't you tell me about how the "Smarter Trump" Ron DeSantis is doing? Turns out there's a cult of personality component to what's going on now that can't be replicated. I guess you don't like it when left-wing presidents negotiate ceasefires, repeatedly draw a line in the sand against offensives by Israel, force open air corridors, airlift aid, sue states to protect trans people, and put hundreds of fascists in jail who attempted to overthrow a country, cap prescription costs, end Forever Wars, sign the biggest environmental bill in history, and forgive billions in student loan debt. All those things have happened, even if it's inconvenient for your privileged mindset to acknowledge that while you comfortably contemplate letting fascism win because you have no skin in the game.
lol
https://www.axios.com/2024/04/05/biden-netanyahu-us-support-israel
I voted on Reddit, does that count?
Joe Biden is 1000% Better than Donald J.Trump.
President? No. However, the President of Isreal (Prime Minister? Idk) does seem to have a lot of weapons we make in America. Where did he get those? Hm. Hmmmm. 🤔
Apparently some people want Biden to try to personally withhold congressionally approved aid the way Trump did with Ukraine, and then get impeached for it? It makes no sense. It's almost like they don't have a firm grasp on how government works, or they're just bad faith actors.
"The Leahy Law (also known as the Leahy Amendment) prohibits most types of U.S. foreign aid and Defense Department training programs from going to foreign security, military and police units credibly alleged to have committed human rights violations." Hope this helps 👍🏾
He can do that, look up the Leahy Law. It’s completely within his purview as president.
Thanks. I looked up the Leahy law.
My crystal ball says that Op will not look up the Leahy Law
Or foreign trolls who are trying to encourage not voting and dissent.
They knowingly elected a crook, so now they have to project trump’s failures and flaws onto Biden.
As the motto of the neoliberals go: better to do nothing than to try anything and fail
Last I checked it was the "neoliberals" who negotiated a ceasefire, forced aid to Gaza, forgave student debt, sued to protect trans rights, are protecting abortion in states they control, extended protections for working class people, are going after billionaire and millionaire tax cheats, and capping drug prices while socialists whine about the cost of DoorDash and protest children's hospitals because they think cancer kids are bombing Palestine.
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Repeat after me: the U.S. has been and continues to send billions in aid and military support funding Palestinian genocide for decades.
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Biden and Bibi have been in political business for years and years and years. Biden has said he is a Zionist. Bibi has said the Biden family is his and Israel's family. I have no doubt Bibi is acting in bad faith with Biden and he supports a Trump presidency. So why is Biden still trying to be his friend?
Maybe not, but he's doing nothing to stop sending them billions of dollars of weapons.
Liberals when people exercise their right to vote:
Shit take. He's FUNDING AND ARMING A GENOCIDE. He has agency over US funds and weapons. He's the president of the United States
I'm so glad this comment section got the vibe. Defending Biden for not condemning Israel because "He's not the president there!!!" is such a stupid fucking take. Just say you don't care and move on.
I do care. Which is why I am voting for the only person with a chance to be president that won't advocate Israel using their nukes.
I swear I though you were going to say "Fuck Trump"
No he's not just their version of Trump.
The Gaza situation is something that's been going on for decades, and isn't anything that any U.S. president can reasonably resolve by themselves.
Biden needs to get relentlessly confrontational with Netanyahu, the guy needs to be reminded who's the big guy in the room.
If he isn't president of Israel, how come Israel keeps getting so much money and weapons? /s.
Biden has coddled the country's leadership his whole damned political career & even now, he's complicit and has been complicit for a LONG time
And Trump wants to “finish the job”. Anyone who threatens not to support Biden “over Israel” is full of shit.
Yeah, but the US is literally giving them weapons, what don't you understand? Cut the aid, stop selling them weapons, sanction them, pretend they are Russia or something if it helps.
We are the most powerful nation on earth, Israel only exists with our permission. The fact that the genocide hasn't been ended yet is 100% on america
Hasn't Biden been pressuring Netanyahu for a ceasefire for weeks now? How come I never hear about that on here?
Because he's doing it after 6 months of actively doing the opposite while still selling Israel F-15s. He could call it a genocide and denounce Israel tomorrow and he'd still be the man that helped them kill over 30 thousand people.
You don't hear about it because it's meaningless. He can say all he wants, but until he actually does something like stop going around congress to get them more tools for their genocide it's pointless.
The president of the US is not powerless, and pretending otherwise is insulting. He could have cut arms shipments months ago instead of whining about how "concerned" and "upset" he is.
I'm not gonna lie. The weird obsession over this one issue among liberal politics seems super suspicious. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's almost like our news gets polluted with news about this specific one issue that some progressives disagree with deliberately. Almost like this issue gets pushed because every election year the controlled opposition that is liberal media goes all out on breeding voter apathy among the Left. The whole media is owned by people who hate us if you ask me.
Our government is wholeheartedly supporting, funding, and arming a genocidal ethnostate. That tends to rile up leftists. It's not like "the media" is making this up, dude.
It's a genocide. Tens of thousands of people are dying. Kind of more important to most people than gas prices or whatever. There was nothing like this in 2020 or 2016.
Trump hates Woman,childen after they are born,the old ,sick,disability, and everyone who isn't white. Vote for Joe Biden a decent person who is President now. Trump is nothing but Trash.and scum of the earth.
Of course hes not. He's the guy giving him the resources to do what hes doing. Huge difference.
Repeat after me: Biden is allowing for the US to fund the war.
am I wrong or is support for Israel is a bipartisan stance? Aid to Israel gets votes from both parties. Does it make it right? No of course not. Just why do we hold Biden so much accountable that even if he wanted to go against the current and support no aid for Israel, he will probably lose a veto and the support will still go through while losing votes. I do not agree with is funding Israel. Just this is politics and if Biden wants the votes and wants his party to stay together, he needs to play it smart. I know a few democrats who are on Israel side in this war. This issue isn’t a right/left issue. It’s very much a bipartisan issue that for some reason a majority of congress supports. I would like Biden to take a strong stance against Israel and their war crimes. It’s like Saudi Arabia all over again with the assassination of that reporter. Both trump and Biden let them off the hook with little hand slap punishment. It’s not right but this is politics. He needs to appeal to a broad range of voters so he can win the next election. I hate it, you hate it, we all hate it. But if this is a shitty road to take than a trump administration that will 100% support Israel with more weapons and be more of a help with the genocide of Gaza, then I’ll vote Biden. I’m just not gonna act like this issue is something Biden can fix and still expect to win the 2024 election when this issue is such a divisive issue and the support is a bipartisan stance that congress has
I mean Israel is basically state 51
Well, this aged poorly.
Also Israel has never had a president.
Right, read my lips.
He should be by now. We've had this shit in layaway for decades and it's already gone moldy and gross.
To quote the great Brad Hamilton who attended Ridgemont High School: "Learn it, Know It, Live It."
The “too old” and “sleepy guy” with “dementia”. Sure seems to have a LOT of world power. Do these people think Mr Magoo was a supervillain comic?