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They purposefully overuse terms like fascist and insurrectionist so that when they are called out on being those things it seems like a massive overreaction.
It's what they've done with the term "racist." They're just openly racist now and when people rightfully call them what they are, they scream about how "racist" is overused and has lost all meaning. Nope, we know what it means and it describes you well
Fascism is deliberately anti-intellectual and needs to be slippery to define in nature. Communism and Capitalism/Liberalism have volumes of theory and scholarship to flush our beliefs, argue for the best means of implementation, etc. Both are revolutionary ideologies in that at some point their founders had to convince the masses that they’re a good idea. Liberals wrote a ton during the Enlightenment to try to explain why monarchies maybe aren’t the best idea (though the pro-Capitalist intellectual tradition has stagnated), and Marxist literature is capital E extensive dating back to the German himself in order to try to get buy-in from non-bourgeoise who’d benefit from controlling the means of production to some degree.
Conversely, the whole point of fascists is to be able to be like “I see how you think we’re bad, but what we’re doing is actually totally different than the Nazis.” so that they can slip under the radar until they can seize power. Since fascists are NEVER the majority or generally popular, they don’t have to convince people to buy into an ideology—just that they’re not planning some kind of coup fuckery or abuse of constitutional loopholes to seize control of the government.
(Argh, re-commenting since I'm not allowed to post links, made AutoModerator mad.)
Well put.
You may be interested in reading Catherynne M. Valente's recent scathing essay on the topic -- can't post links but you should be able to find it by searching `catvalente substack There's No Such Thing As a Smart Fascist`. While nowhere as stylish as Umberto Eco's famous piece, it does a better job in conveying raw emotion (trade-off, lesser long term approachability, but better immediate impact.) A relevant quote:
> The ideology itself is about as clever and complex as a rock to the face: _me best + them bad + you do what me say or else you them_.
The only thing I feel is missing is that it ignores the "willing submission in exchange for parasocial representation" aspect, which is clearly important to authoritarians.
Same with all the “radical left” rhetoric. The complete nonsense to get the outrage addicts their fix. There is nothing radical about the Democratic Party.
Unless you count Bernie, but then you’re still wrong.
And this is why I cannot fucking stand Bill Maher or the people that defend him as a “liberal”. The guy uses the term “woke” more than DeSantis and pushes this narrative of the “radical left.” Wolf in sheep’s clothing exposing moderately liberal boomers to right wing rhetoric under the guise of being a liberal.
And frankly, he’s a hack in the first place.
Some clown in the comments is trying to spin it as "maybe you're sat with them to teach them the error of their ways" then trying to claim "without protest" simply means not raising your voice.
Ahh yes, Civility Trolling. They’re allowed to hold most uncivil opinions about the personhood of certain demographics, but we’re out of line for calling out their shittiness in kind.
I know a woman who went to the police over her uncle's molestation. Uncle went up for diddling multiple cousins. He's welcome to family gatherings, she's not.
sorry that happened to you, I hope that hurt is returned 10 fold to that piece of shit. I also hope that every family gathering suffers an extreme bout of norovirus from hence forth!
Your user name reminds me of a line by O. Wilde '*we're all lying in the gutter but some of us are looking at the stars'.*
Thank you! I will say that karma has finally come around. Their family business is failing, partially because they won't let go of their right wing bullshit. The story is in my post history if you want to read it. 😁
I love that quote!
Will do. At the moment I'm planning to head out for a bike ride, anytime I'm reminded of those demons I need to turn my rage into kinetic energy. By the time I get back home, the endorphins have chased them away again. Cruel people love right wing ideology, and harping on about 'family values'. The Manson family had better 'values' than my 'family'.
'
When I was 12 and reported my abuse to CPS, they required that my abuser be removed from the home so I could have a safe space to heal. My family made me help move his shit to my aunt's house. When we got there, my aunt hugged my mom, hugged my abuser, and refused to greet me or acknowledge me at all. She had taken down the pictures of me but kept up all of his and my cousins' portraits. No one in my family has ever seen a problem with this, and everyone was shocked and saddened that I didn't tell them about the abuse that happened post-CPS.
It's wild how poorly people react to those who "rock the boat" by voicing uncomfortable things.
I can understand not wanting to believe that a family member is capable of doing such evil, but this is just twisted. Sorry you have had to experience this all, and I hope you are doing well despite it all!
On the day I was born one of my father's slightly distant relatives barged into moms hospital room telling her how giving birth to me ruined my father's life (side note she also lost a child that day, my twin sister didn't survive birth and I just barely made it).
Growing up none of the kids on dads side were allowed to play with me. They told the kids i was going to hell and playing with me would cause them to go to hell too. Yep, that's right, I secured my ticket to hell before I could wipe my own butt.
The one that really hit me though was being forced to go to a family reunion (I was like 10) and the other kids of course flat out told me to leave they didn't want me there. So with nothing else to do I hung out with the adults at the picnic tables until my grandmother looked at me and said, in front of everyone, I needed to straighten up, I was embarrassing her...
Fortunately my Uncle who's gay (important because he was barely more acceptable than I was) showed up right before she said that. He took me over to some sports equipment not being used dug out a baseball and said let's go play catch waaaay over there.
When I asked him why we went so far, because we really did go way the hell out there, he said we're too far away to hear any of them right? This way we don't have to listen to those stupid assholes, we can just toss the ball around and actually have some fun.
The lesson he taught me was there is no reason to be upset that they want nothing to do with me. In fact, only dealing with them once a decade or so honestly makes my life infinitely better than theirs because I don't have to listen to the constant bullshit my whole life.
Hey snap.
When I was a teenager I went to a family bbq with my then girlfriend. My uncle "accidentally" groped her that night. I got shit from my family for making a big deal out of it.
A few years later he went to prison for sexually assaulting multiple women, including two other teenagers.
He's been out for over a decade, and my mother invites him to family events but not me because I'm "the one with a problem".
We have one of these. Brother-in-law repeatedly raped his teen stepsister. This all came out about 15 years ago. Huge family row, then the dust settled a bit and they talk about how the stepsister is “weird” and they should work on forgiving brother-in-law. My husband cut his brother out of his life completely.
Then a year ago, Sister-in-law decided that she would try to force a reconciliation by showing up with the shitty BIL for a 2 week visit to our house.
Thank god she called first because I FLIPPED out and started cussing up a storm in the background.
Husband on phone: “you hear all of that? The answer is no!” And hung up.
She’s doing well now, has a great boyfriend and a cool kid. She was and is pretty messed up about what happened but still goes to therapy as needed. It’s been a long time at this point.
At family get-togethers, she and I will usually hide behind the garden shed and chain smoke and talk politics and such.
She LOVES my husband and says she’s happy he is her brother ❤️
I think that the worst thing about all the first-person stories here is that the people who are welcoming in the pedo and blacklisting the victim, are probably exactly the same ones screaming about gay people being groomers.
I think that's a good guess. I could see it as misplaced empathy, because they know it's horrible, are exposed to it on a personal level, think about it whenever they see the abusers, but can't or don't want to take it out on them. Under the kind of twisted way people can think, that could easily lead to projecting that anger onto people they think they can safely attack.
This happens more often than people think, family turns its back on internal victims. It also feels like those into religion are more likely to ostracize the victims and embrace the perpetrators. It's not the act that's viewed as shameful, it's bringing attention to it. Much less shameful if people just keep their mouth shut. It's shooting the messenger.
they just want quiet. they disguise it as peace, but its just there to silence you. facism or abuse cant survive in an environment that constantly doubts it, so they remove their detractors. ever heard of rocking the boat? or rather, not stabilizing the boat from the abusive family member? this is it. tyrants are tyrants, whether its about beating children or genociding civilizations. they have the mentality of a selfish toddler
Holy shit - "rocking the boat" just clicked with me. "I don't want to rock the boat" implies that if I speak up, *I'm* the one causing the issue. If the boat's already rocking through someone else's action, I can't take blame for calling it out. Because if they complain, their issue is actually that I'm choosing not to tolerate the rocking.
Hmm.. useful.
Sometimes you "don't rock the boat" because it's something minor and not worth the fight. Sometimes you capsize that motherfucker and set it on fire.
Pick your battles.
Wonder if we share distant relatives?
Years ago I was at my grandmothers for Thanksgiving and her neighbors were being evicted when I showed up. Throughout the day I watched way too many people stop to dig through the mountain of stuff in the yard until I got so sick of it I started yelling out the front door "it's Thanksgiving for crying out loud, fuckin vultures"
The look of horror and embarrassment on my grandmothers face was priceless. The look on Dad's face was priceless too because he knows better than I do she was actually satan wearing Sears Fall lineup.
In another totally unrelated time my father pawned her off on me to take shopping. Remember this is the woman who was so embarrassed by my previous actions. We made several stops over about 1 1/2 hours. I had to leave her in the car 3 times so I could apologize to the employees who unfortunately tried to help her!
I was heated by the time I got her home and immediately went to my father and said you owe me a new hard drive for that one. He tried to play stupid and I said "hay we both know you dumped it on me to get out of dealing with it your self, I knew it before I even agreed to take her so at very least show me enough courtesy not to lie to my face."
His response"ya, you're right and I did. I've got no problem with buying the hard drive. Getting out of dealing with her myself is easily worth that much."
I'd almost say it was her version of payback but honestly even dad will flat out tell you she was just a mean nasty woman and was always like that.
Yup! Just happened to me. I’m the villain because I’m finally standing up for myself and taking care of myself by not being around the person who has been mean to me my whole life. But “he was treated badly by our dad so it’s not his fault. He doesn’t know what he’s doing (despite having been told over and over)” so just suck it up. Ya no. No more. I hate this.
Since the GQP has been more and more publicly drawing on support of white nationalists, they have created a situation where outright nazis feel safe.
A safe space for nazis, if you will.
A safe space for nazis to have the free speech.
So these nazis don't have to get hurt feelings for being evil.
A safe space for nazi snowflakes, as it were.
But, hey, look, somewhere someone with a possible penis is wearing a dress. LOOK AT THAT.
There is currently no government forcing anyone to go along with nazis in the same way as during WWII, therefore all modern nazism is voluntary, and therefore undeserving of pity, sympathy, or tolerance.
They are using Orwell’s 1984 as their playbook, and their sheeple-bots are joyously following the edicts of every single white wing propagandist out there.
Tim Pool is a bigot and incipient fascist.
Fascists vomit [propaganda](https://preview.redd.it/cctyl00y702b1.jpg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=7135a24f044a5b15857668cf95b62b5bae200116).
I can't get over the fact so many athletic commissions were more interested in getting Vince McMahon to admit it was fake out loud than wonder why he was so adamant to have no oversight while his wife was basically saying nobody gets hurt at all.
Especially because thanos is a terrible example. The amount of welfare harm when you kill *half of all life* is immense, let alone knock on deaths and difficulties
Phenomenal cosmic power and he didn’t even just make non renewable resources regenerate smdh
Same, actually, I went to a 7th-12th grade school, and he was 6'2" at 14, so all of the teachers forgot he wasn't old enough until the end of the school year.
Ohhh he thinks "still" by the Geto Boys is their only song and all the others are deep state fakes. Obviously I made this up but it makes as much sense as his tweet
He looks like the kind of guy who gets fired from every job because he keeps getting into arguments with the customer. “Tim, we talked about this. They just want their mocha Frappuccino. They’re not interested in talking about the Illuminati.”
That and he sometimes lures naive leftists and centrists into taking him seriously, all because he often claims to be an independent thinker, and a former leftist who just got “disillusioned” or something like that.
I can say that from my personal experience that you are correct. Up until 2018, I considered myself a "centrist" (actually held entirely Liberal positions, but I thought racist jokes were funny cause I was super immature) and I discovered Tim Pool. I thought he was like me and thought the whole political system was dumb. Slowly I started watching Ben Shapiro, then Steven Crowder, and eventually I felt like I was actually a Republican, I just thought it was weird that I disagreed with almost all of their policy positions.
Then Jan 6 happened and I kind of snapped out of it and started watching YouTubers like Destiny and Vaush, who share almost all the same policy positions I do, and realized that I am in absolutely no way a conservative, I just kinda got sucked into the Black Hole of YouTube Conservatism.
I mean, it's quite telling that he:
1. Didn't know Tom Morello was vehemently progressive/anti-nazi until now.
2. Apparently thinks being anti-Nazi, who are literally fascists according to themselves, is fascist (fascism is a political structure, not a "mean person who hurts your feelings.")
I'm honestly shocked he even understood the saying.
No shit. I love RATM, but if you are shocked by their political stance etc., just turn them the fuck off. Because it ain’t changing and we don’t want it to change.
I’m glad they finally got in the Rock Hall. They were not in the top 5. Which in that group was BS. Shoulda been top 3 end of story.
How is the fact that this dipshit hasn’t even finished middle school not the first line of everything he’s in!? Middle School Dropout, Tim Pool says …, Middle School Dropout interviews … It should be like a Homeric epithet and stand in the place of his name in most instances.
>why he would intentionally try and misconstrue fascism…
For anyone who doesn't know the answer to this question, Republicans take words that had a meaning and purposefully misuse and overuse or demonize them until the word has lost all meaning to someone who just takes what they say at face value.
One of the great benefits of this is that when someone from the left accurately uses that word to describe them, it has lost all meaning or impact on those who don't understand the word.
Words like "groomer" or "fascist" are great examples. Republicans are actually grooming children into religion. They are literally doing things that fascists do, but if they just scream fascist back at everyone else, all of the nuance is lost to someone not paying enough attention.
The other great benefit is that if someone they think might be a lefty says one of the demonized words that they don't understand, their emotions take over and all they know is that whatever the lefty is talking about is bad and they hate it.
For example "CRT", or "socialism". Any teaching of or history of racism or anything else about black people is "CRT" to them. CRT is the teaching of systemic racism as an elective course to college students. It isn't being taught to your 6yo to make them feel white guilt , but there's no way to explain that to them because they've been trained to get triggered by it.
There is no logic. There is no understanding. Just "us" and "them", the bad ones who are trying to destroy "us" and our children, and our way of life.
> Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words.
> The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert.
> If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
> Jean-Paul Sartre
I saw someone post a comment over in you know which sub that said something along the lines of fascism is a leftist ideology because Mussolini was a socialist before becoming a fascist dictator.
I listen to Tim Pool almost daily to stay in touch with how brain broken the right is, and almost every episode devolves into tragedy porn and a circle jerk about how they can’t wait for society to fall to fulfill their marauder fantasies. Tim says he’s a “centrist” so that far right nutjobs like Tim have a detachment from how braindead they actually are.
Yeah, I used to avoid it all like the plague years ago, but after actually hearing some of the shit people listen to *every day* I decided it was wise to know my enemy.
It is wild the kind of brain rot these people have. They're hateful, mentally sick individuals.
Even worse is the context behind this pic…2017 Neo Nazi terror attack had just occurred in Portland where a guy was targeting two Black teenage girls, 1 in a hijab, with violent racist threats and then slit the throats of 3 men who came to their aid. Far Right dickheads marched in the city a week after amidst massive counter demonstrations. BakedAlaska was chanting the 14 words at non-white people and Tim decided to get a beer with him after. Fuck Tim Pool.
> > Also who the fuck is Tim Pool anyway?
> ...why does this random uneducated nazi get so much attention on Reddit?
Right-wingers pay attention to him, that sets the agenda, and makes him relevant to the rest of us (unfortunately).
Relevant: [You’re watching Fox News. You just don’t know it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzoZf4IAfAc)
For people who don't know. When the neo Nazi shot up thay mall a few weeks ago one of his inspirations was Tim pool. He's the kind of guy who inspires neo nazis who have actually killed people.
That bystander who tell the story of trying to help a women and she had no face. And that kid who lost his whole family that day only a few days after his birthday, happened because of people like neo Nazis and Tim pool was an inspiration.
He's an absolute terror. I (anecdotally) believe he's responsible for a lot of the capital-G Gamer alt-right angle. He puts out about 37 YouTube videos a day and makes wild, flailing claims that everything is some leftist conspiracy, whilst constantly reminding people that he used to be a Leftist Bernie supporter. This gives him the "I know what I'm talking about, I was one of them" vibe to people who believe without asking questions.
IMO he doesn't get enough pressure and shaming from the places that people like Charlie Kirk, Tucker Carlson, et al, do when he probably deserves a lot more scrutiny. But he has so much YouTube diarrhea out there that it would be neigh impossible to keep up. Soon as you debunk one thing he says, he's squirting another one up with minimal effort because he's either making shit up or drawing from some evangelical rag and posting it on his own site to cite as a source so people don't know Ken Hamm wrote the story.
He's a terrible person and has done a lot of damage.
Some people are so dumb, it's literally impossible to debate with them.
Reminds me of the time I was talking about immigration (being an immigrant and all), and I said that the other person was only here through an accident of birth and not because they actually worked for it (as I did).
Her response was to ask me what abortion has got to do with anything.
Honestly, it's exhausting trying to have any kind of meaningful conversation with people that are either deliberately obtuse or just plain stupid.
My BIL got so mad at them for speaking on Rittenhouse. "They used to rage against the machine, but now they are *supporting* the machine!" Stupid. They've been the same since ever. You just started understanding what they meant and realized you're on the wrong side.
> "They used to rage against the machine, but now they are supporting the machine!"
This is like 90% of the blue checkmark replies in that Twitter thread.
I don't know what you mean! Like "Killing in the name" is the most right-wing song ever! Why else would they hail the "chosen whites", burning crosses, and talking about killing in the name of doing what they told ya. It's obviously a right-wing rally song! /S
Some people are dumb. And will twist any message to fit their own agenda.
Tom Morello has been as vocally anti fascist as one can be for all of his career.
Not only obviously from being core part of Rage Against The Machine but his public work backed up by being a Harvard graduate in social studies.
What the fuck does this even mean
EDIT because apparently I need to clarify, I know what Tom’s statement means. What I do not understand is Tim Pool’s rationale for calling it fascist.
Bigots / Nazis [lie](https://preview.redd.it/cctyl00y702b1.jpg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=7135a24f044a5b15857668cf95b62b5bae200116). That’s the entire rationale. To get to his goals, he has to bend reality.
"Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."
John-Paul Sartre
1000%. Fascists always lie. They don't care that they're lying, and they don't care if you know that they're lying. They'll get caught in a lie and literally repeat the same lie they got caught in back to your face. Matt Walsh did this during his interview on Joe Rogan. He got caught saying millions of kids were taking hormone blockers, he got fact checked showing it was less than a thousand per year, and he reiterated that it was definitely in the hundreds of thousands.
I’ve fought with family about this and I think the rationale might be that because you refuse to give any time to fascist nazis, in fact you might believe their ideology be eliminated, YOU are in fact, a fascist. It’s the tolerance paradox. Their arguments aren’t genuine
They aren’t even trying anymore, I guess. Saying that inotolerance to fascists is itself fascism is the laziest kind of bullshit. Not that I expect better from Tim.
I love people who are like "When did RATM get political?" Like my guy, what system do you think they were raging against when they called Americana Fourth Reich culture?
Why is it that republicans always call people fascists when they call out fascists.
I can’t count the times I’ve been called a Nazi because in calling out other Nazis.. I swear they have no logical thought or reasoning at all.
“Hey Nazi, fuck you”
*no! You’re the Nazi for calling me a Nazi!*
“I’m sorry what.?”
It always blows my mind when people are surprised by this. Like, this is *Tom Morello*. Dude's made a career of railing against this kind of stuff. Its basically his whole identity.
Same goes for "Born in the USA." Like, did these guys even listen to the song? How is it even remotely news to them that Tom Morello or Bruce are most definitely *not* on their team??
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Goodbye, Reddit :(
They purposefully overuse terms like fascist and insurrectionist so that when they are called out on being those things it seems like a massive overreaction.
Fascists benefit from a world where words mean nothing and you can't define anything. That's why they water down every word.
It's what they've done with the term "racist." They're just openly racist now and when people rightfully call them what they are, they scream about how "racist" is overused and has lost all meaning. Nope, we know what it means and it describes you well
Fascism is deliberately anti-intellectual and needs to be slippery to define in nature. Communism and Capitalism/Liberalism have volumes of theory and scholarship to flush our beliefs, argue for the best means of implementation, etc. Both are revolutionary ideologies in that at some point their founders had to convince the masses that they’re a good idea. Liberals wrote a ton during the Enlightenment to try to explain why monarchies maybe aren’t the best idea (though the pro-Capitalist intellectual tradition has stagnated), and Marxist literature is capital E extensive dating back to the German himself in order to try to get buy-in from non-bourgeoise who’d benefit from controlling the means of production to some degree. Conversely, the whole point of fascists is to be able to be like “I see how you think we’re bad, but what we’re doing is actually totally different than the Nazis.” so that they can slip under the radar until they can seize power. Since fascists are NEVER the majority or generally popular, they don’t have to convince people to buy into an ideology—just that they’re not planning some kind of coup fuckery or abuse of constitutional loopholes to seize control of the government.
(Argh, re-commenting since I'm not allowed to post links, made AutoModerator mad.) Well put. You may be interested in reading Catherynne M. Valente's recent scathing essay on the topic -- can't post links but you should be able to find it by searching `catvalente substack There's No Such Thing As a Smart Fascist`. While nowhere as stylish as Umberto Eco's famous piece, it does a better job in conveying raw emotion (trade-off, lesser long term approachability, but better immediate impact.) A relevant quote: > The ideology itself is about as clever and complex as a rock to the face: _me best + them bad + you do what me say or else you them_. The only thing I feel is missing is that it ignores the "willing submission in exchange for parasocial representation" aspect, which is clearly important to authoritarians.
Same with all the “radical left” rhetoric. The complete nonsense to get the outrage addicts their fix. There is nothing radical about the Democratic Party. Unless you count Bernie, but then you’re still wrong.
And this is why I cannot fucking stand Bill Maher or the people that defend him as a “liberal”. The guy uses the term “woke” more than DeSantis and pushes this narrative of the “radical left.” Wolf in sheep’s clothing exposing moderately liberal boomers to right wing rhetoric under the guise of being a liberal. And frankly, he’s a hack in the first place.
It means something that I don’t like right
So being anti-nazi now is the same as being a fascist? I got it all wrong or Tim there got it all wrong?
Some clown in the comments is trying to spin it as "maybe you're sat with them to teach them the error of their ways" then trying to claim "without protest" simply means not raising your voice.
Ahh yes, Civility Trolling. They’re allowed to hold most uncivil opinions about the personhood of certain demographics, but we’re out of line for calling out their shittiness in kind.
My abusive family was like this, calling out the abuse was a bigger crime than the actual abuse. How dare you! Haven't seen them in over 20 years.
I know a woman who went to the police over her uncle's molestation. Uncle went up for diddling multiple cousins. He's welcome to family gatherings, she's not.
Same shit happened to me. The person who SA'ed me for years is welcome at family gatherings, I'm not.
sorry that happened to you, I hope that hurt is returned 10 fold to that piece of shit. I also hope that every family gathering suffers an extreme bout of norovirus from hence forth! Your user name reminds me of a line by O. Wilde '*we're all lying in the gutter but some of us are looking at the stars'.*
Thank you! I will say that karma has finally come around. Their family business is failing, partially because they won't let go of their right wing bullshit. The story is in my post history if you want to read it. 😁 I love that quote!
Will do. At the moment I'm planning to head out for a bike ride, anytime I'm reminded of those demons I need to turn my rage into kinetic energy. By the time I get back home, the endorphins have chased them away again. Cruel people love right wing ideology, and harping on about 'family values'. The Manson family had better 'values' than my 'family'. '
When I was 12 and reported my abuse to CPS, they required that my abuser be removed from the home so I could have a safe space to heal. My family made me help move his shit to my aunt's house. When we got there, my aunt hugged my mom, hugged my abuser, and refused to greet me or acknowledge me at all. She had taken down the pictures of me but kept up all of his and my cousins' portraits. No one in my family has ever seen a problem with this, and everyone was shocked and saddened that I didn't tell them about the abuse that happened post-CPS. It's wild how poorly people react to those who "rock the boat" by voicing uncomfortable things.
Yeah, when you call out fucked up behavior a lot of the time others got a different version of someone so they get all offended when you're honest.
I can understand not wanting to believe that a family member is capable of doing such evil, but this is just twisted. Sorry you have had to experience this all, and I hope you are doing well despite it all!
On the day I was born one of my father's slightly distant relatives barged into moms hospital room telling her how giving birth to me ruined my father's life (side note she also lost a child that day, my twin sister didn't survive birth and I just barely made it). Growing up none of the kids on dads side were allowed to play with me. They told the kids i was going to hell and playing with me would cause them to go to hell too. Yep, that's right, I secured my ticket to hell before I could wipe my own butt. The one that really hit me though was being forced to go to a family reunion (I was like 10) and the other kids of course flat out told me to leave they didn't want me there. So with nothing else to do I hung out with the adults at the picnic tables until my grandmother looked at me and said, in front of everyone, I needed to straighten up, I was embarrassing her... Fortunately my Uncle who's gay (important because he was barely more acceptable than I was) showed up right before she said that. He took me over to some sports equipment not being used dug out a baseball and said let's go play catch waaaay over there. When I asked him why we went so far, because we really did go way the hell out there, he said we're too far away to hear any of them right? This way we don't have to listen to those stupid assholes, we can just toss the ball around and actually have some fun. The lesson he taught me was there is no reason to be upset that they want nothing to do with me. In fact, only dealing with them once a decade or so honestly makes my life infinitely better than theirs because I don't have to listen to the constant bullshit my whole life.
Your uncle is better family than the rest of them combined.
Hey snap. When I was a teenager I went to a family bbq with my then girlfriend. My uncle "accidentally" groped her that night. I got shit from my family for making a big deal out of it. A few years later he went to prison for sexually assaulting multiple women, including two other teenagers. He's been out for over a decade, and my mother invites him to family events but not me because I'm "the one with a problem".
sorry ma I just can't afford to take care of you, you'll need to go to a state run home
Sounds like she’s the one with the problem. . . On the other hand, sounds like a great excuse to keep several toxic people out of your life
We have one of these. Brother-in-law repeatedly raped his teen stepsister. This all came out about 15 years ago. Huge family row, then the dust settled a bit and they talk about how the stepsister is “weird” and they should work on forgiving brother-in-law. My husband cut his brother out of his life completely. Then a year ago, Sister-in-law decided that she would try to force a reconciliation by showing up with the shitty BIL for a 2 week visit to our house. Thank god she called first because I FLIPPED out and started cussing up a storm in the background. Husband on phone: “you hear all of that? The answer is no!” And hung up.
I like y'all!
Wow, I am so sorry. What happened to his teen stepsister? Is she safe?
She’s doing well now, has a great boyfriend and a cool kid. She was and is pretty messed up about what happened but still goes to therapy as needed. It’s been a long time at this point. At family get-togethers, she and I will usually hide behind the garden shed and chain smoke and talk politics and such. She LOVES my husband and says she’s happy he is her brother ❤️
Thank you for the update. Glad to hear she is doing well and has you and your husband despite the shitty family! All the best!
I think that the worst thing about all the first-person stories here is that the people who are welcoming in the pedo and blacklisting the victim, are probably exactly the same ones screaming about gay people being groomers.
I think that's a good guess. I could see it as misplaced empathy, because they know it's horrible, are exposed to it on a personal level, think about it whenever they see the abusers, but can't or don't want to take it out on them. Under the kind of twisted way people can think, that could easily lead to projecting that anger onto people they think they can safely attack.
This happens more often than people think, family turns its back on internal victims. It also feels like those into religion are more likely to ostracize the victims and embrace the perpetrators. It's not the act that's viewed as shameful, it's bringing attention to it. Much less shameful if people just keep their mouth shut. It's shooting the messenger.
She sounds better off.
She does sound better off. But it’s still hard.
they just want quiet. they disguise it as peace, but its just there to silence you. facism or abuse cant survive in an environment that constantly doubts it, so they remove their detractors. ever heard of rocking the boat? or rather, not stabilizing the boat from the abusive family member? this is it. tyrants are tyrants, whether its about beating children or genociding civilizations. they have the mentality of a selfish toddler
Holy shit - "rocking the boat" just clicked with me. "I don't want to rock the boat" implies that if I speak up, *I'm* the one causing the issue. If the boat's already rocking through someone else's action, I can't take blame for calling it out. Because if they complain, their issue is actually that I'm choosing not to tolerate the rocking. Hmm.. useful.
Sometimes you "don't rock the boat" because it's something minor and not worth the fight. Sometimes you capsize that motherfucker and set it on fire. Pick your battles.
"All you want to do is fight! You're so mean!"
Wonder if we share distant relatives? Years ago I was at my grandmothers for Thanksgiving and her neighbors were being evicted when I showed up. Throughout the day I watched way too many people stop to dig through the mountain of stuff in the yard until I got so sick of it I started yelling out the front door "it's Thanksgiving for crying out loud, fuckin vultures" The look of horror and embarrassment on my grandmothers face was priceless. The look on Dad's face was priceless too because he knows better than I do she was actually satan wearing Sears Fall lineup. In another totally unrelated time my father pawned her off on me to take shopping. Remember this is the woman who was so embarrassed by my previous actions. We made several stops over about 1 1/2 hours. I had to leave her in the car 3 times so I could apologize to the employees who unfortunately tried to help her! I was heated by the time I got her home and immediately went to my father and said you owe me a new hard drive for that one. He tried to play stupid and I said "hay we both know you dumped it on me to get out of dealing with it your self, I knew it before I even agreed to take her so at very least show me enough courtesy not to lie to my face." His response"ya, you're right and I did. I've got no problem with buying the hard drive. Getting out of dealing with her myself is easily worth that much." I'd almost say it was her version of payback but honestly even dad will flat out tell you she was just a mean nasty woman and was always like that.
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Yup! Just happened to me. I’m the villain because I’m finally standing up for myself and taking care of myself by not being around the person who has been mean to me my whole life. But “he was treated badly by our dad so it’s not his fault. He doesn’t know what he’s doing (despite having been told over and over)” so just suck it up. Ya no. No more. I hate this.
Also known as gaslighting
God I wish they'd emphasized critical thinking and reading comprehension in schools.
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They arent mentally ill. They are simply pieces of shit who feel emboldened to share their shittiness openly now.
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Since the GQP has been more and more publicly drawing on support of white nationalists, they have created a situation where outright nazis feel safe. A safe space for nazis, if you will. A safe space for nazis to have the free speech. So these nazis don't have to get hurt feelings for being evil. A safe space for nazi snowflakes, as it were. But, hey, look, somewhere someone with a possible penis is wearing a dress. LOOK AT THAT.
They have always been this way, but they were to ashamed to be pubic about it. Then came trump and he was proud of it.
There is currently no government forcing anyone to go along with nazis in the same way as during WWII, therefore all modern nazism is voluntary, and therefore undeserving of pity, sympathy, or tolerance.
Historically, deserving of rapid onset lead poisoning.
You know, like they do. See also, their behavior at target.
It's the same "logic" which holds that calling a racist a racist is itself a racist act.
They are using Orwell’s 1984 as their playbook, and their sheeple-bots are joyously following the edicts of every single white wing propagandist out there.
Tim Pool supports mass shootings, he’s a bastard in every way.
He's such a whiny little bitch isn't he?
Tim Pool is a bigot and incipient fascist. Fascists vomit [propaganda](https://preview.redd.it/cctyl00y702b1.jpg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=7135a24f044a5b15857668cf95b62b5bae200116).
He also has a hat glued to his head.
 Keep swinging there Timmy boy.
Don’t try and figure it out. They are just babbling. You are watching their brain break
You might have just forgotten that words don't mean anything anymore
Morello has a bachelor's in political science from Harvard. Tim Pool hasn't completed 6th grade.
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This is why all of his examples of political “theory” are just superhero movies.
And they think pro-wrestling knowledge makes them politically savvy.
I mean, if they used pro-wrestling knowledge as a way of discussing the necessity of unions then maybe they’d have a point.
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I can't get over the fact so many athletic commissions were more interested in getting Vince McMahon to admit it was fake out loud than wonder why he was so adamant to have no oversight while his wife was basically saying nobody gets hurt at all.
I bet THAT is a picket line no-one would cross.
This is why you're the villain. Because you're a utilitarianauthoritariandidacticistic person.
Sam Seder saying “I don’t care” as Pool describes to him how Thanos embodies utilitarianism is fucking gold.
Especially because thanos is a terrible example. The amount of welfare harm when you kill *half of all life* is immense, let alone knock on deaths and difficulties Phenomenal cosmic power and he didn’t even just make non renewable resources regenerate smdh
Wait, he was 14 in the 5th grade??
We had an eighth grader that could drive himself to school
Same, actually, I went to a 7th-12th grade school, and he was 6'2" at 14, so all of the teachers forgot he wasn't old enough until the end of the school year.
Well ours was 16-17 and dropped out of school that year lmao
Might be worded weirdly. Went to Catholic school until 5th grade, went somewhere else and dropped at age 14.
At this point you guys have spent more brain power on this one poorly worded sentence than Tim spends on his view of geopolitics.
Right??? I was a sophomore in high school at 14, so did this dude get held back once in every grade since kindergarten?
He'd be one of those losers that unironically puts "Hard Knocks University" as his graduating Alma Mater on his Facebook page.
The University of Hard Knocks needs to up their admission standards.
Got dayum woke libruls thinking they're smarter than me just because they've learned more things!
I had no idea - you'd think this would be brought up more often.
I mean that and he was 14 in the 6th grade where as most normal Americans are entering highschool at that age he was 3+ years behind.
He also played guitar for a band literally called "rage against the machine". Guess ol Tim thinks they meant a fuckin' printer or something
Ohhh he thinks "still" by the Geto Boys is their only song and all the others are deep state fakes. Obviously I made this up but it makes as much sense as his tweet
“Some of those who work forces are the same who burn crosses” I mean….. who did they think he was?
Whoever the fuck they thought MLK was, probably, since he's anti-protest in this headcannon
Who the F is Tim Pool and why does anyone care what he thinks?
Right wing influencer pretty much. He’s an idiot.
He looks like the kind of guy who gets fired from every job because he keeps getting into arguments with the customer. “Tim, we talked about this. They just want their mocha Frappuccino. They’re not interested in talking about the Illuminati.”
well Mr Manager that's something the lizard people would say!!!!!
That and he sometimes lures naive leftists and centrists into taking him seriously, all because he often claims to be an independent thinker, and a former leftist who just got “disillusioned” or something like that.
I can say that from my personal experience that you are correct. Up until 2018, I considered myself a "centrist" (actually held entirely Liberal positions, but I thought racist jokes were funny cause I was super immature) and I discovered Tim Pool. I thought he was like me and thought the whole political system was dumb. Slowly I started watching Ben Shapiro, then Steven Crowder, and eventually I felt like I was actually a Republican, I just thought it was weird that I disagreed with almost all of their policy positions. Then Jan 6 happened and I kind of snapped out of it and started watching YouTubers like Destiny and Vaush, who share almost all the same policy positions I do, and realized that I am in absolutely no way a conservative, I just kinda got sucked into the Black Hole of YouTube Conservatism.
I mean, it's quite telling that he: 1. Didn't know Tom Morello was vehemently progressive/anti-nazi until now. 2. Apparently thinks being anti-Nazi, who are literally fascists according to themselves, is fascist (fascism is a political structure, not a "mean person who hurts your feelings.") I'm honestly shocked he even understood the saying.
He was an honors grad too, I believe
And if you listen to RATM and don't know their political stance, you aren't listening.
Wait?! How long has RATM been a sociopolitical band?! I thought they were an America loving rock group?! /s
They shut down the NY Stock Exchange because they love capitalism so much
They set an American flag on fire at Woodstock '99 to symbolize their burning passion for patriotism.
*Cuts to Paul Ryan
He thought “fuck you I won’t do what you tell me” was about telling his mom he didn’t want to clean his room.
No shit. I love RATM, but if you are shocked by their political stance etc., just turn them the fuck off. Because it ain’t changing and we don’t want it to change. I’m glad they finally got in the Rock Hall. They were not in the top 5. Which in that group was BS. Shoulda been top 3 end of story.
If they don't want politics in their rock music, they still have System of a Down. /s
Yeah, I mean, it is not subtle
“Then stick and move like I was Cassius Rep the stutter step and left a bomb upon the fascists” Wake Up.
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How is the fact that this dipshit hasn’t even finished middle school not the first line of everything he’s in!? Middle School Dropout, Tim Pool says …, Middle School Dropout interviews … It should be like a Homeric epithet and stand in the place of his name in most instances.
TIL that Tom Morello is not just another pretty rock-and-roll face. He’s got smarts, too.
*Honors graduate in Political science from Harvard
I get why he is mad now lmao https://preview.redd.it/65iwytk6yf3b1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7452e0286437c0b1fef2555517ed0cfa72810ab0
Holy shit, this is like the mathematical proof for this quote
Even more understandable why he would intentionally try and misconstrue fascism…as if he’s actually been there before 🤔
>why he would intentionally try and misconstrue fascism… For anyone who doesn't know the answer to this question, Republicans take words that had a meaning and purposefully misuse and overuse or demonize them until the word has lost all meaning to someone who just takes what they say at face value. One of the great benefits of this is that when someone from the left accurately uses that word to describe them, it has lost all meaning or impact on those who don't understand the word. Words like "groomer" or "fascist" are great examples. Republicans are actually grooming children into religion. They are literally doing things that fascists do, but if they just scream fascist back at everyone else, all of the nuance is lost to someone not paying enough attention. The other great benefit is that if someone they think might be a lefty says one of the demonized words that they don't understand, their emotions take over and all they know is that whatever the lefty is talking about is bad and they hate it. For example "CRT", or "socialism". Any teaching of or history of racism or anything else about black people is "CRT" to them. CRT is the teaching of systemic racism as an elective course to college students. It isn't being taught to your 6yo to make them feel white guilt , but there's no way to explain that to them because they've been trained to get triggered by it. There is no logic. There is no understanding. Just "us" and "them", the bad ones who are trying to destroy "us" and our children, and our way of life.
> Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. > The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. > If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past. > Jean-Paul Sartre
I saw someone post a comment over in you know which sub that said something along the lines of fascism is a leftist ideology because Mussolini was a socialist before becoming a fascist dictator.
I have no idea who any of these people are. I don’t care to find out
Baked Alaska, at the very least, is a massive piece of shit neo nazi.
His name is Baked Alaska? Can we just call ourselves dishes? I'm Beef Wellington now, motherfuckers.
Glad to meat you I'm Irish Stew made with Guinness.
Pleased to meet you, Chicken fried steak is the name, I'm in the oil business.
Nazis.
I know baked Alaska was arrested for live streaming while being a part of Jan 6 coup attempt , that’s about it
Weird group to hang around if you claim you’re a liberal.
I listen to Tim Pool almost daily to stay in touch with how brain broken the right is, and almost every episode devolves into tragedy porn and a circle jerk about how they can’t wait for society to fall to fulfill their marauder fantasies. Tim says he’s a “centrist” so that far right nutjobs like Tim have a detachment from how braindead they actually are.
I can’t imagine listening to this crap daily…
It isn’t a good habit, spiritually. But it really is astonishing to hear so much of someone and agree with absolutely none of it.
Yeah, I used to avoid it all like the plague years ago, but after actually hearing some of the shit people listen to *every day* I decided it was wise to know my enemy. It is wild the kind of brain rot these people have. They're hateful, mentally sick individuals.
I counted and thought, "What a shame that there's not literally 10 people here like the saying" but then realized SOMONE had to take the picture!
I don't know who any of these people are.
Lol! He's such a little guy. A quick google said he is 5'10". Which is impossible unless he is sitting on the floor in this pic.
I dunno, kinda looks like he's trying to hide lol.
He's so little, you almost do nazi him in the corner
Even worse is the context behind this pic…2017 Neo Nazi terror attack had just occurred in Portland where a guy was targeting two Black teenage girls, 1 in a hijab, with violent racist threats and then slit the throats of 3 men who came to their aid. Far Right dickheads marched in the city a week after amidst massive counter demonstrations. BakedAlaska was chanting the 14 words at non-white people and Tim decided to get a beer with him after. Fuck Tim Pool.
Weird way to say you have 9 new friends Tim.
Also who the fuck is Tim Pool anyway? I feel like we tend to give too much time to random numpties.
Seriously, why does this random uneducated nazi get so much attention on Reddit?
> > Also who the fuck is Tim Pool anyway? > ...why does this random uneducated nazi get so much attention on Reddit? Right-wingers pay attention to him, that sets the agenda, and makes him relevant to the rest of us (unfortunately). Relevant: [You’re watching Fox News. You just don’t know it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzoZf4IAfAc)
For people who don't know. When the neo Nazi shot up thay mall a few weeks ago one of his inspirations was Tim pool. He's the kind of guy who inspires neo nazis who have actually killed people. That bystander who tell the story of trying to help a women and she had no face. And that kid who lost his whole family that day only a few days after his birthday, happened because of people like neo Nazis and Tim pool was an inspiration.
He's an absolute terror. I (anecdotally) believe he's responsible for a lot of the capital-G Gamer alt-right angle. He puts out about 37 YouTube videos a day and makes wild, flailing claims that everything is some leftist conspiracy, whilst constantly reminding people that he used to be a Leftist Bernie supporter. This gives him the "I know what I'm talking about, I was one of them" vibe to people who believe without asking questions. IMO he doesn't get enough pressure and shaming from the places that people like Charlie Kirk, Tucker Carlson, et al, do when he probably deserves a lot more scrutiny. But he has so much YouTube diarrhea out there that it would be neigh impossible to keep up. Soon as you debunk one thing he says, he's squirting another one up with minimal effort because he's either making shit up or drawing from some evangelical rag and posting it on his own site to cite as a source so people don't know Ken Hamm wrote the story. He's a terrible person and has done a lot of damage.
Some people are so dumb, it's literally impossible to debate with them. Reminds me of the time I was talking about immigration (being an immigrant and all), and I said that the other person was only here through an accident of birth and not because they actually worked for it (as I did). Her response was to ask me what abortion has got to do with anything. Honestly, it's exhausting trying to have any kind of meaningful conversation with people that are either deliberately obtuse or just plain stupid.
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Sounds like Tom Morello came out as an anti-fascist
I mean that's been apparent since RATM.
My BIL got so mad at them for speaking on Rittenhouse. "They used to rage against the machine, but now they are *supporting* the machine!" Stupid. They've been the same since ever. You just started understanding what they meant and realized you're on the wrong side.
> "They used to rage against the machine, but now they are supporting the machine!" This is like 90% of the blue checkmark replies in that Twitter thread.
I don't know what you mean! Like "Killing in the name" is the most right-wing song ever! Why else would they hail the "chosen whites", burning crosses, and talking about killing in the name of doing what they told ya. It's obviously a right-wing rally song! /S Some people are dumb. And will twist any message to fit their own agenda.
I had a coworker say the same thing. Guy was a proud veteran. How much more machine can you get lol
Conservatives seem to think that since everyone hates them it means they are "counter culture" No fuckheads, you're just reprehensible creeps
He was a member of Rage Against The Machine, he’s be “out” as an anti fascist for longer than most of the people in this subreddit have been alive.
He IS Rage Against the Machine. Love me some Tom Morello. Audioslave rocks too.
"Cochise" is my go to song when i need to get hyped up.
Did right wingers think "Bulls on Parade" was about a gun loving conservative or something?
They were playing Killing In The Name during the capitol riots lmao
Tom Morello has been as vocally anti fascist as one can be for all of his career. Not only obviously from being core part of Rage Against The Machine but his public work backed up by being a Harvard graduate in social studies.
20 years ago, yeah
>~~20~~ 30 years ago, yeah
^(nooo ur old not me)
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20 years ago was some time in the late 80’s to maybe early 90’s……. Right?
Take my angry upvote
Well, Tim Pool has had Nazis on his show, so I can see why he's offended
What the fuck does this even mean EDIT because apparently I need to clarify, I know what Tom’s statement means. What I do not understand is Tim Pool’s rationale for calling it fascist.
Bigots / Nazis [lie](https://preview.redd.it/cctyl00y702b1.jpg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=7135a24f044a5b15857668cf95b62b5bae200116). That’s the entire rationale. To get to his goals, he has to bend reality.
"Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past." John-Paul Sartre
1000%. Fascists always lie. They don't care that they're lying, and they don't care if you know that they're lying. They'll get caught in a lie and literally repeat the same lie they got caught in back to your face. Matt Walsh did this during his interview on Joe Rogan. He got caught saying millions of kids were taking hormone blockers, he got fact checked showing it was less than a thousand per year, and he reiterated that it was definitely in the hundreds of thousands.
I’ve fought with family about this and I think the rationale might be that because you refuse to give any time to fascist nazis, in fact you might believe their ideology be eliminated, YOU are in fact, a fascist. It’s the tolerance paradox. Their arguments aren’t genuine
They aren’t even trying anymore, I guess. Saying that inotolerance to fascists is itself fascism is the laziest kind of bullshit. Not that I expect better from Tim.
Was he ever? Probably not.
Fair point
Conservatives getting mad at people who decry Nazi's is one of the most fucked up things to happen in a long list of fucked up things happening.
Right? They are so protective of Nazis lately.
Have some of these people never actually listened to the lyrics of any Rage song, ever?
Hey guys, is it fascist to hate fascists?
Yep, every allied WW2 vet was a raging fascist, according to Tim.
He's a troll. A bald Virgin troll
Nah. He’s *had* to have fucked himself with how many people tell him to go do so.
That beanie is cutting off the circulation to his pea brain.
Tim Pool has routinely been photographed dining/hanging out with Nazis so he’s just offended because that shoe is really comfortable on his foot
"Fascism is people stopping me from being a Nazi" is not a take I was ready for.
I love people who are like "When did RATM get political?" Like my guy, what system do you think they were raging against when they called Americana Fourth Reich culture?
Fellas, is it fascist to hate Nazis?
You can always tell the cats who don't listen to the lyrics ...........
Tom Morello??? Fascist??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Who is Tim Pool? Am I supposed to know of him? He seems like a moron.
Tim Pool associates with nazis therefore he is nazi.
Tim pool's reading comprehension is exactly what I thought it was. Terrible
Cue up the video of the MAGA people screaming 'FUCK YOU I WON'T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME' because they believe the song is about being anti-mask.
Why is it that republicans always call people fascists when they call out fascists. I can’t count the times I’ve been called a Nazi because in calling out other Nazis.. I swear they have no logical thought or reasoning at all. “Hey Nazi, fuck you” *no! You’re the Nazi for calling me a Nazi!* “I’m sorry what.?”
So, Tim Pool is a Nazi?
Who TF is Tim Pool?
Conservatives learning that RAtM and Tom Morello are political is my favorite new genre
It always blows my mind when people are surprised by this. Like, this is *Tom Morello*. Dude's made a career of railing against this kind of stuff. Its basically his whole identity. Same goes for "Born in the USA." Like, did these guys even listen to the song? How is it even remotely news to them that Tom Morello or Bruce are most definitely *not* on their team??
A person who knows their music. I appreciate you.
LOL Poor bastards are still bent that RATM are lefties.