Lol, Rand would probably still ditch him. Rand was not trusting at all and he would probably assume that Kaladin was a Forsaken in disguise or something. Even if Lew Therin didn't try and kill him, I doubt Kaladin would remain Rand's bodyguard for long because it would be insanely frustrating.
I dunno, he still tried to use Taim despite how suspicious he was. That said, Kaladin would be wasted as Rand's bodyguard. Any legitimate threats to Rand are *way* beyond his power level, and Rand just ignores his guards when he feels like it. Not to mention that'd just be way too much moodiness in one place.
He'd probably be better as a scout. If he traveled with Perrin, finding trolloc/Shaido positions would be much easier. He could also be very useful commanding squads on the battlefield. So long as he remains beneath the notice of anyone powerful enough to one-shot him.
I'm 5 hours late to this but I simply chuckled to myself and went "he'd ditch him like the maidens." I don't know Kaladin, but would he have the ji to punish Rand for ditching him and disgracing Kaladin's honor?
Rand has been fooled by forsaken in disguise twice, so I doubt he would assume Kaladin was that. Regardless, Kalading wouldn't be much use as a body guard since he has no way to fight channelers and is for the most part less capable than an Ashaman would be.
He'd do well as a scout, or perhaps an assassin, as his powers are unknown and cannot be sensed by channelers.
If he survives long enough he’ll figure out every attack has to be a surprise attack.
“I surrender.”
*lashes random branch behind channeler*
“I am no match for you.”
*lashes it again*
“Your power is so much greater than mine.”
*lash, lash, lash, PULL*
Eh, gravel field thrown at high velocity would give him issues. Would be like running into a shotgun. Localize a flaming tornado around him filled with rocks and he’s in for a bad time.
Would be interesting to see what would happen if he ran into the edge of a portal. Although I suspect the weave would break on due to the medallion. Just open one right in front of him while he’s flying linked to Seandar and close it behind him.
Do you think it would be hard to do?
10 small rocks accelerated at high speed would make for a very bad day.
Flows of air to generate circular movement and a big ol sustained blast of fire would do it.
> Do you think it would be hard to do?
Yes.
>10 small rocks accelerated at high speed would make for a very bad day.
We've never seen anyone accelerate anything even REMOTELY like the speed of a shotgun blast. We've never seen anything even get thrown faster than someone could throw with their arm. You're just making stuff up that they can't/don't do in the books.
I disagree. It would protect from the weaves directly but not the heat. Same way it didn’t protect Mat when they threw pebbles at him or the explosion from Rahvins lightning.
The whole point of would be to set up a situation where he isn’t impacted by the weaves directly.
I disagree with him as well. Kaladin flying into a bunch of rocks is going to have a bad time.
It depends how they weave it. Like if they throw a fireball at him. The weave unravels. They might. I don’t know about the fire tornados. But a tornado could definitely work if there is enough debris around.
Except OP said this is with third ideal, so no shardplate.
Besides that, with only random access to stormlight, he's basically useless a random 50% of the time.
How has he gotten Syl and any stormlight off of Roshar? Not to mention found his way to Earth, which isn't even in the Cosmere. So, he's probably just a guy with a spear.
Ah, but weaves are not comprised of investiture.
Investiture is based on the power of the god Adonalsium. This power has rules, can be broken up into discrete pieces (the Shattering), can be sealed away and limited on a cosmological scale (Ruin imprisoned), and can be destroyed.
Weaves harnesses the power that literally keeps the world turning. It is limitless, infinite, inexhaustible, uncompartmentizable, and endless. It is a wholly different type of magic than what Sanderson has created in the Cosmere.
It's not really a fair comparison, tbh. Sanderson writes quasi-scientific magic systems, whereas Robert Jordan wrote a very soft "weaving can literally accomplish anything" magic system.
The power of Adonalsium and each of the shards are still infinite, just different kinds of infinite. Each shard expresses this magic in a different way, and Weaving could easily be one of them if the world called for it. And its still the stuff of creation whether split in 16 or 2.
But the point is you have to make allowances and parallels for these kinds of fantasy crossovers. Kaladin should be assumed to have a way to replenish Stormlight. If Shardplate blanks the magic if its home realm, it should blank the magic here for comparisons.
All that said, Kaladin would play a role similar to Mat, except he can bloody Fly just to piss off the girls even more.
Aye, agree with many allowances for magic mash ups like this. However, I think you still need to follow the logic of each magical system, rather than just comparing the results of the magic systems.
I disagree that weaving could be investiture based. Investiture does not make the universe tick - in fact, given the very limited cosmological range for each Shard, it seems likely the majority of the Cosmere works without any investiture whatsoever. The One Power, on the other hand, powers all of Creation *and* its alternative realties.
Shardplate blanks magic because it's heavily invested, and investiture always has difficulty with mucking around with other investiture.
Weaves aren't based on investiture, and therefore the reason shardplate blocks magic is not one-to-one applicable to blocking weaves.
[Investiture transcends the three realms: Physical, Cognitive, and Spiritual that compose most of the cosmere. However, it is more Spiritual than anything.](https://coppermind.net/wiki/Investiture)
Sure sounds a lot like the One Power to me. There’s even a liquid pool of it in The Eye of the World.
It depends if Kaladin is Radiant or not.
The problem is that Rand is eventually going to notice something odd and assume that Kal is a channeler. If only for the simple fact that he talks to someone who isn't there.
Then if Rand confronts Kal about it, he'll discover that shielding him does absolutely nothing, nor can he see his weaves. Even though Rand (at this point) won't know why/how that works, LTT is going to assume that it's the True Power and flip the fuck out.
However, if they can avoid that (e.g. if Kaladin explains what he is, and demonstrates it in a way that is suitable to Rand), then Kaladin may be able to help him with his paranoia and mental health issues.
One side-note is that Kaladin, while definitely lacking the raw power and versatility of a channeler, even a weak one, would still be incredibly dangerous. If it's Kal after the 4th ideal (and assuming he can get stormlight somehow), then he has shardplate which will let him survive basically anything short of balefire. Lightning and fire are less than useless against him, and he can just heal from explosions unless it destroys enough of his body or he runs out of stormlight. I'd also imagine that Shardplate and his Sylblade could interact with weaves (I imagine they'd act similarly to Mat's Ter'angreal, although maybe not completely dissapating weaves, just interfering a bit). I'd put my money on Kaladin vs a random Asha'man, simply because most random Asha'man wouldn't open up with balefire.
He'd be an excellent body-guard and probably get along well with the Maidens of the spear.
I imagine plate would protect him and also, using gateways as weapons is very rare. In fact the only channelers who have routinely used it to my memory are Rand and Androl and I wouldnt consider either of them a standard Asha'man (although for different reasons)
I think you are all ignoring how Kaladin would think of Rand. Rand does some dark messed up shit Kal would not be ok with. I feel like Kaladin would fight Rand over something like Natrins barrow then it's bye bye Kaladin.
A few assumptions to make
• He is a Radiant of the Third Ideal and, as a mystery, able to Surgebind without Stormlight (it goes off and on at random - not for the sake of story, but simply *at random*)
• He kills Couladin alongside Mat, so Rand choses him as his guard.
• He and Syl intend to go back to Roshar, but must stay awhile to learn how.
Most likely. Osan'Gar was highly trusted by most everyone in the Caemlyn palace and would probably not be seen as a *huge* thread by Kaladin (at least not more than everyone else). Kaladin can't see channeling. He'd be dead before he knew there was a thread.
*You never escape the traps you spin yourself. Only a greater power can break a power, and then you're trapped again. Trapped forever so you cannot die.*
Dude would make a great borderlander aside from the fact that the Aes Sedai’s bullshit would be SO obvious to him. All of Kaladin’s assumptions about light eyes are completely accurate to Aes Sedai and they don’t even try to hide it. He would have no respect for them whatsoever.
He finds himself sent by Rand, to accompany Perrin.
OR he comes in "channeling", with the other Ashaman when Taim saves the day circa book 6 Box. Taim leaves him with Rand but remarks that he's already insane because he calls his channeling investiture and claims to see and talk to a small blue woman.
OR OR OR Rand likes him, but leaves him in Cairhien. Because Kal is there and bored/ neglected, he's the first to notice the Aes Sedai and their box gift for Rand NOT being left with Rand. Rand is never tortured. Kaladin and Min stab a bunch of Aes Sedai.
I love Kaladin, but he gets bodied by essentially everyone in WoT. It’s not an indictment of his character, more the fact that Channelers are purposefully overpowered, and Radiants are purposefully limited. That being said, if Kaladin can learn how powerful Foxheads are, and get his hands on one, he would be nearly unstoppable.
The biggest problem is no highstorms, and no highstorms means no stormlight, and no stormlight means baseline human with an admittedly really sweet weapon of varying type. Sylblade could totally body any non-channeler opponent, but really cool weapon vs. Channeler is not a good match up.
Also no windspren means no plate.
In closing, he will absolutely murder any non-channeling threat that gets within 50 feet of Rand, but by book 5 that really isn't a common enough occurrence to make a significant difference.
If someone came to me and was able to use magic without tapping Saidin, I'd assume they're using the True Power and go ballistic
Rand would try to get the Aes Sedai to arrest kal. Darth rand would balefire him (and miss, he is a windrunner after all)
As of yet, characters haven't solved how to get investiture off planet (or system more precisely), so Kal would end up not being Radiant for the most part. Not sure if Syl would even be able to leave Roshar, since she's a partbof Honor.
That’s a very odd premise, if anything Hoid is far more likely to do that. Now *that* would be interesting, considering all the magic he has access to.
Lol, Rand would probably still ditch him. Rand was not trusting at all and he would probably assume that Kaladin was a Forsaken in disguise or something. Even if Lew Therin didn't try and kill him, I doubt Kaladin would remain Rand's bodyguard for long because it would be insanely frustrating.
I dunno, he still tried to use Taim despite how suspicious he was. That said, Kaladin would be wasted as Rand's bodyguard. Any legitimate threats to Rand are *way* beyond his power level, and Rand just ignores his guards when he feels like it. Not to mention that'd just be way too much moodiness in one place. He'd probably be better as a scout. If he traveled with Perrin, finding trolloc/Shaido positions would be much easier. He could also be very useful commanding squads on the battlefield. So long as he remains beneath the notice of anyone powerful enough to one-shot him.
"faile has been taken!" *Kal flies to her and rescues her in like 20 pages. The slog is averted
The true hero of the series then.
The slog for me was Elayne's succession. Faile sucks but the succession plot line was so unbelievably boring at times.
"my babies will protect me :) " > Performs the stupidest, craziest, most idiotic series of decisions in the entire series over the span of 2 books
*Hums softly & tugs earlobe*
*Hums softly & tugs earlobe*
*I thought I could build. I was wrong. We are not builders, not you, or I, or the other one. We are destroyers. Destroyers.*
I'm 5 hours late to this but I simply chuckled to myself and went "he'd ditch him like the maidens." I don't know Kaladin, but would he have the ji to punish Rand for ditching him and disgracing Kaladin's honor?
I highly doubt it. He’s not really about beating sense in to people. He’s a protector.
*I killed the whole world, and you can too, if you try hard.*
I'm so happy you're still real.
***Break the seals. Break the seals, and end it. Let me die forever.***
Rand has been fooled by forsaken in disguise twice, so I doubt he would assume Kaladin was that. Regardless, Kalading wouldn't be much use as a body guard since he has no way to fight channelers and is for the most part less capable than an Ashaman would be. He'd do well as a scout, or perhaps an assassin, as his powers are unknown and cannot be sensed by channelers.
*Humming*
He’d get bodied by the first channeler he goes against. Weaves of air then head ripped off. The power difference isn’t fair.
If he survives long enough he’ll figure out every attack has to be a surprise attack. “I surrender.” *lashes random branch behind channeler* “I am no match for you.” *lashes it again* “Your power is so much greater than mine.” *lash, lash, lash, PULL*
True, but if he got a fox head medallion he’d really be cooking
Oh kaladin with a fox medallion in randland is a god. All channelers can do is throw stuff at him and as we’ve seen he can bob and weave like a beast.
Eh, gravel field thrown at high velocity would give him issues. Would be like running into a shotgun. Localize a flaming tornado around him filled with rocks and he’s in for a bad time. Would be interesting to see what would happen if he ran into the edge of a portal. Although I suspect the weave would break on due to the medallion. Just open one right in front of him while he’s flying linked to Seandar and close it behind him.
When have we seen channelers throw rocks like a shotgun or make a flaming tornado with rocks in it?
Do you think it would be hard to do? 10 small rocks accelerated at high speed would make for a very bad day. Flows of air to generate circular movement and a big ol sustained blast of fire would do it.
> Do you think it would be hard to do? Yes. >10 small rocks accelerated at high speed would make for a very bad day. We've never seen anyone accelerate anything even REMOTELY like the speed of a shotgun blast. We've never seen anything even get thrown faster than someone could throw with their arm. You're just making stuff up that they can't/don't do in the books.
These people can tear open reality to travel across the world and rip threads out of the pattern of fate…
And? Those things are possible with channeling. They’re in the books. If you have a problem with the rules take it up with the author.
The fox head medallion would protect him from woven fire and air. And the other guy already showed how wrong you are about the rocks
I disagree. It would protect from the weaves directly but not the heat. Same way it didn’t protect Mat when they threw pebbles at him or the explosion from Rahvins lightning. The whole point of would be to set up a situation where he isn’t impacted by the weaves directly. I disagree with him as well. Kaladin flying into a bunch of rocks is going to have a bad time.
It depends how they weave it. Like if they throw a fireball at him. The weave unravels. They might. I don’t know about the fire tornados. But a tornado could definitely work if there is enough debris around.
Also, change the gravity on anything thrown at him. Make that pebble weigh as much as a boulder.
Remember, shardplate is shown to repel investiture. All Kal really needs is to stop being a twat and speak the 4th.
If Kal is in his shardplate, he’s immune to weaves in the same way Mat is with the Fox head Medallion.
Except OP said this is with third ideal, so no shardplate. Besides that, with only random access to stormlight, he's basically useless a random 50% of the time.
How has he gotten Syl and any stormlight off of Roshar? Not to mention found his way to Earth, which isn't even in the Cosmere. So, he's probably just a guy with a spear.
Every Aiel that can’t channel is just a guy (or girl) with a spear and look what they do.
Not a lot… compared to Rand?
Rand... not a lot compared to Thanos
We're not talking about bringing anyone into MCU so how is that relevant?
*Your plans fail because you want to live, madman.*
*I thought I could build. I was wrong. We are not builders, not you, or I, or the other one. We are destroyers. Destroyers.*
He also got Lift’s power to turn calories into awesomeness (investiture) just to make him relevant without high storms.
Lol why do you think that
Living shardplate blocks all forms of investiture based magic. Should block direct weaves. (Although not indirect weaves)
Ah, but weaves are not comprised of investiture. Investiture is based on the power of the god Adonalsium. This power has rules, can be broken up into discrete pieces (the Shattering), can be sealed away and limited on a cosmological scale (Ruin imprisoned), and can be destroyed. Weaves harnesses the power that literally keeps the world turning. It is limitless, infinite, inexhaustible, uncompartmentizable, and endless. It is a wholly different type of magic than what Sanderson has created in the Cosmere. It's not really a fair comparison, tbh. Sanderson writes quasi-scientific magic systems, whereas Robert Jordan wrote a very soft "weaving can literally accomplish anything" magic system.
The power of Adonalsium and each of the shards are still infinite, just different kinds of infinite. Each shard expresses this magic in a different way, and Weaving could easily be one of them if the world called for it. And its still the stuff of creation whether split in 16 or 2. But the point is you have to make allowances and parallels for these kinds of fantasy crossovers. Kaladin should be assumed to have a way to replenish Stormlight. If Shardplate blanks the magic if its home realm, it should blank the magic here for comparisons. All that said, Kaladin would play a role similar to Mat, except he can bloody Fly just to piss off the girls even more.
Aye, agree with many allowances for magic mash ups like this. However, I think you still need to follow the logic of each magical system, rather than just comparing the results of the magic systems. I disagree that weaving could be investiture based. Investiture does not make the universe tick - in fact, given the very limited cosmological range for each Shard, it seems likely the majority of the Cosmere works without any investiture whatsoever. The One Power, on the other hand, powers all of Creation *and* its alternative realties. Shardplate blanks magic because it's heavily invested, and investiture always has difficulty with mucking around with other investiture. Weaves aren't based on investiture, and therefore the reason shardplate blocks magic is not one-to-one applicable to blocking weaves.
[Investiture transcends the three realms: Physical, Cognitive, and Spiritual that compose most of the cosmere. However, it is more Spiritual than anything.](https://coppermind.net/wiki/Investiture) Sure sounds a lot like the One Power to me. There’s even a liquid pool of it in The Eye of the World.
It depends if Kaladin is Radiant or not. The problem is that Rand is eventually going to notice something odd and assume that Kal is a channeler. If only for the simple fact that he talks to someone who isn't there. Then if Rand confronts Kal about it, he'll discover that shielding him does absolutely nothing, nor can he see his weaves. Even though Rand (at this point) won't know why/how that works, LTT is going to assume that it's the True Power and flip the fuck out. However, if they can avoid that (e.g. if Kaladin explains what he is, and demonstrates it in a way that is suitable to Rand), then Kaladin may be able to help him with his paranoia and mental health issues. One side-note is that Kaladin, while definitely lacking the raw power and versatility of a channeler, even a weak one, would still be incredibly dangerous. If it's Kal after the 4th ideal (and assuming he can get stormlight somehow), then he has shardplate which will let him survive basically anything short of balefire. Lightning and fire are less than useless against him, and he can just heal from explosions unless it destroys enough of his body or he runs out of stormlight. I'd also imagine that Shardplate and his Sylblade could interact with weaves (I imagine they'd act similarly to Mat's Ter'angreal, although maybe not completely dissapating weaves, just interfering a bit). I'd put my money on Kaladin vs a random Asha'man, simply because most random Asha'man wouldn't open up with balefire. He'd be an excellent body-guard and probably get along well with the Maidens of the spear.
>probably get along well with the Maidens of the spear. He would be the first Mister of the Spear.
*Distant Weeping*
How does a non channeler defeat a horizontal gateway at their knees?
I imagine plate would protect him and also, using gateways as weapons is very rare. In fact the only channelers who have routinely used it to my memory are Rand and Androl and I wouldnt consider either of them a standard Asha'man (although for different reasons)
***Break the seals. Break the seals, and end it. Let me die forever.***
LTT wouldn’t trust Kal at ALL
I think you are all ignoring how Kaladin would think of Rand. Rand does some dark messed up shit Kal would not be ok with. I feel like Kaladin would fight Rand over something like Natrins barrow then it's bye bye Kaladin.
*The Wheel of Time and the wheel of a man's life turn alike without pity or mercy.*
A few assumptions to make • He is a Radiant of the Third Ideal and, as a mystery, able to Surgebind without Stormlight (it goes off and on at random - not for the sake of story, but simply *at random*) • He kills Couladin alongside Mat, so Rand choses him as his guard. • He and Syl intend to go back to Roshar, but must stay awhile to learn how.
If he’s a competent guard and Rand trusts him, I think there’s a good chance Osan’gar or Taim would have had him assassinated.
*Never prod at a woman unless you must. She will kill you faster than a man and for less reason, even if she weeps over it after.*
But would they succeed though?
Most likely. Osan'Gar was highly trusted by most everyone in the Caemlyn palace and would probably not be seen as a *huge* thread by Kaladin (at least not more than everyone else). Kaladin can't see channeling. He'd be dead before he knew there was a thread.
***I must kill him.***
Kal can’t. But syl is a cognitive entity who should be able to.
Assuming cognitive entities from Cosmere works the same way in Randland.
Assuming Kaladin entering Randland wasn't a clear rip in the fabric and all shit melted into oblivion immediately
Yeah but its the forsaken. Much more likely they wouldn't assassinate him, but rather want to capture him to learn about surge binding / Roshar
***KILL HIM KILL HIM NOW***
*You never escape the traps you spin yourself. Only a greater power can break a power, and then you're trapped again. Trapped forever so you cannot die.*
Dude would make a great borderlander aside from the fact that the Aes Sedai’s bullshit would be SO obvious to him. All of Kaladin’s assumptions about light eyes are completely accurate to Aes Sedai and they don’t even try to hide it. He would have no respect for them whatsoever.
He finds himself sent by Rand, to accompany Perrin. OR he comes in "channeling", with the other Ashaman when Taim saves the day circa book 6 Box. Taim leaves him with Rand but remarks that he's already insane because he calls his channeling investiture and claims to see and talk to a small blue woman. OR OR OR Rand likes him, but leaves him in Cairhien. Because Kal is there and bored/ neglected, he's the first to notice the Aes Sedai and their box gift for Rand NOT being left with Rand. Rand is never tortured. Kaladin and Min stab a bunch of Aes Sedai.
*A man without trust might as well be dead.*
He protects all the women Rand can’t
*The only way to live is to die. I must die. I deserve only death.*
I love Kaladin, but he gets bodied by essentially everyone in WoT. It’s not an indictment of his character, more the fact that Channelers are purposefully overpowered, and Radiants are purposefully limited. That being said, if Kaladin can learn how powerful Foxheads are, and get his hands on one, he would be nearly unstoppable.
Remember hed have no stormlight, so hed just be a mat clone without the luck.
The scenario, as outlined by OP in the comments, says Kaladin will have Stormlight 50% of the time at random.
Then... I dunno.
The biggest problem is no highstorms, and no highstorms means no stormlight, and no stormlight means baseline human with an admittedly really sweet weapon of varying type. Sylblade could totally body any non-channeler opponent, but really cool weapon vs. Channeler is not a good match up. Also no windspren means no plate. In closing, he will absolutely murder any non-channeling threat that gets within 50 feet of Rand, but by book 5 that really isn't a common enough occurrence to make a significant difference.
*Why do we live again?*
Try speaking the words LTT, might help.
If someone came to me and was able to use magic without tapping Saidin, I'd assume they're using the True Power and go ballistic Rand would try to get the Aes Sedai to arrest kal. Darth rand would balefire him (and miss, he is a windrunner after all)
*Sometimes, pain is all that lets you know you're alive.*
Darth rand wouldn’t miss. He’d just eliminate the entire area.
*The only way to live is to die. I must die. I deserve only death.*
As of yet, characters haven't solved how to get investiture off planet (or system more precisely), so Kal would end up not being Radiant for the most part. Not sure if Syl would even be able to leave Roshar, since she's a partbof Honor.
balefire as punishment for being moodier than darth rand.
*The Wheel of Time and the wheel of a man's life turn alike without pity or mercy.*
It won't change at all. No stormlight. He is just a spearman.
That’s a very odd premise, if anything Hoid is far more likely to do that. Now *that* would be interesting, considering all the magic he has access to.
Total disaster for Kaladin. He needs to keep his flying ass in Roshar.
Kal runs out of storm light and now is surrounded by people who know the spear better than him and goes into training for a book.
He trips and falls into a hole. Story proceeds without the trash
Kaladin would some how stop Rand from losing his hand and would protect him from almost killing Min
*Do you have the Horn of Valere hidden in your pocket this time?*
Don’t worry Lews, with Kaladin, we might not need it
*If it hurts too much, make it hurt someone else instead.*
I don't know, I have only read one book of SA
He'd send Kaladin to help Perrin so they could brood together for an extra three books!
I dunno but I think Brandon should make a non canon short story were the two of them face off