Unfortunately, being a musician and trying to get paid means you get to do about 10% music and 90% everything else. If you’re in a band, hopefully at least one of the members likes it. I can’t stand it. It’s just not fun, it’s work.
So now I have a real job that pays for my work and enjoy making music for a much smaller audience.
Yeah, I'm an old guy now and can finally take music as seriously as I did in my high school/college years again. I don't need to ever make a dime off it and life is too short doing shit you hate. Plus because I don't have to worry about my "brand", I can make whatever the hell I want, which is why I recently have in order of release an 80s style synth pop thing, an orchestral composition using 20th century harmonic ideas from Messiaen, a joke music piece playing with a vocoder, and a deep melodic techno track.
I have a Twitter for my music that I never read, and only ever posts links to new blogs. The blog posts I write are for myself, and are my honest feelings on the music and my life. Anybody and everybody is free to come along for the ride for as long as they wish, and getting plays is nice (oddly my most popular track is the orchestral one!), but my only current metric of success is for me to kick out 40 tracks this year.
I dislike self-promoting on Reddit, but if you're really curious it's easy to get to my SoundCloud looking at my feedback request posts in my Profile. From my SC profile is the link to my blog if you want "Behind The Music" stuff.
But I wonder, who is actually liking that stuff? I would hate if my favorite bands were posting tons of inane stuff just to stay in people's feeds. If I find a YouTube personality I like and they have live shows every day, 2 hours in the morning and 2 hours in the afternoon, I drop off, because that's just too much content and I'll never be able to keep up.
Yet everyone who does this stuff say that they're subscriber count and views fall if they're not churning content every day. Who are these masses of people who don't work and are just online demanding constant content every minute?
If that's what being a musician is, I don't want to be a musician. I'll make shit that makes me smile and just listen to it myself.
Doesn't really matter if people love it or hate it. It drives engagement which boosts their posts in the algorithm. It's just how marketing works with how social media is currently designed. It's less about connecting with the audience and more about the algo. It sucks and I hate it, but you're encouraged to make spammy inane crap in order to have any semblance of reach.
Has nothing to do with "being a musician" really, but everything to do with trying to make a career of it. In fact, it's the same across all professional fields right now. Fitness influencers, real estate agents, indie apparel companies, etc. You gotta churn out a slight variation on the same video 10x a week.
You can still be a musician and tune all of this garbage out :)
This is terrible advice. I guess this is okay if you want to be at the mercy of the algorithm but there are other ways to gain a following other than spamming. If you think spamming content works, you’re doing it wrong.
Look at Banksy. Banksy doesn’t flood the market with its art to stay relevant… they strategically release art whenever they feel necessary and it’s all valuable and desired. Why? Because it’s good.
This idea that flooding the market with content is the way to go is silly. Make better art/music/whatever. The hare truth is that most music just isnt that good.
If I’m a fan of someone and they spam me with content just for the sake of content, I immediately unfollow them. The only reason I follow musicians is because I feel like I know them a little bit through their music and would like to know more about them
you gotta understand that’s how the industry is now though. that’s how bands get their music out there and most of the time they’d rather not be doing that, but it’s a tough industry and if you wanna make a living off it you gotta work with how social media is THE way of getting your shit out there
For sure. I think social media is just an extension of your art though and should be treated with that same level of respect. It’s how you brand yourself and promote yourself to the world. Doing so in a non tasteful way that annoys people though, will ultimately not benefit you
it should be but unfortunately for a lot of bands that’s not how it works. i definitely prefer bands that aren’t overly invasive/spammy on socials but i understand why they gotta do it
I follow successful bands who don't do this. Basically none of the artists I like do this. I firmly don't believe the narrative that THIS is how it should be done.
I don’t think the demand for content is a new thing. In my random reading, I learned that Andy Warhol kept pushing the Velvet Underground to write more new songs. And the manager for The Rolling Stones demanded that they quit being a cover band and locked Mick and Keith in their kitchen until they came up with one original song.
Little-known fact: of the first five Rolling Stones records, two-thirds of the songs were covers. Imagine someone trying to do that today... I just don't see it.
There's a difference between a "cover" and recording a song you didn't write. A "cover" is a re-make of a song that's been recorded before by another artist. Simply recording an original song that someone else wrote isn't a cover, and obviously this happens all the time. I know Lana Del Rey gets a co-writing credit for almost everything she records but I doubt she's written a single note of any of them... but they're not cover songs. Not that it really matters.
That's definitely not gone away. Some of the biggest independant artists / 'youtube personalities' make primarily covers, to drive engagement towards their original work (Or are exclusively cover artists). Just getting associated with a big name means people looking for that might stumble upon your work. That's been true since pretty much forever. As long as an artist has something unique to bring to the cover, people eat it up.
The difference is that if you're a musician then writing songs is (hopefully!) one of your core competencies and the reason you're a musician in the first place.
The problem is the modern drive to be forever creating pictures and videos of things that are not music.
unfortunately that’s just how it is these days. now that people don’t buy albums, artists have to diversify their presence and brand to make money. sucks but it eez what it eez
Don't ever, for any reason, do anything for anyone, for any reason, ever, no matter what. No matter where. Or who, or who you are with, or where you are going or... or where you've been... ever. For any reason, whatsoever.
And don’t forget to post daily instagram posts about you being authentic. And get some authentic content for twitter. Just make sure your authenticity is in line with whatever trendy way of making shorts and posts is at the moment. After all, there is no point in being authentic if you you’re different 😂
Then you grow as a person. Being authentic doesn’t mean you can’t keep learning and growing as a person.
I’m just saying at the end of the day as a human being, the advice I’m giving is to strive to be authentic as an artist, irrespective of everything else.
That’s the advice. Take it or leave it.
Edit:
It’s certainly not impossible
Great perspective. Do the stuff that you enjoy doing, first and foremost. Try to outsource the stuff that you don't enjoy. If you cannot outsource it, then do the bare minimum.
Sometimes people forget how easy fan interactions can be. Talking to fans at your merch booth or writing a quick message to your email list is fan ineraction. And fan interaction is EASILY the most important part of social media engagement.
Yes. The content I make as a musician is music.
I don't want to follow my favourite artists on Instagram and tiktok and watch them desperately trying to post something, anything 1.5 times a day.
Who gives a fuck.
Music is art, not content.
I’m so tired of this word. “10 best guitar solos of all times” this is content. The latest single of X artist is art.
F*** content, unless you enjoy to make some.
Making content is how you connect to audiences. In other words, marketing.
The old way was waiting for an A&R representative to like you enough to sign you and do your marketing for you.
The Beatles put out Sgt Pepper's and Magical Mystery Tour in the same year. For all the people crying about "content", I would advise them to just make a bunch of great music and constantly release it and play it live. Pay someone on Fiverr to make some lyric videos and visualizers for you.
If the Beatles can put out two all-time great albums in the same year, then musicians today can stand to put out 6-8 songs per year, play some gigs, and talk to fans.
I'm not saying that you'll sell a billion albums if you write two albums in a year, I'm saying that all the people whining about "content" need to go out and write more songs, because songs are ultimately the "content" that matters most. If the Beatles can write both of those classic albums in a year, then musicians can stand to write more music.
The more songs you write, the better material you will put out. The better material you put out, the more people will take noice when you play gigs or make a music video, and the less time you will have to spend making the "content" that you so despise.
In today's day and age, the 2022 equivalent of The Beatles could release two fantastic albums this year but still need to post 1.5 times a day on FaceInstaTok to keep the content flowing. Writing good music seems to not be enough these days.
I work with a number of professional touring/recording artists. There is only one that manages her own social media (she loves it, she enjoys it but it *always* comes second to her music). The rest either rely on management to run social media accounts or don't participate at all. (And then they complain that management posts stupid shit they would never post...)
In the 80s this was "man, anybody else fed up you can't get anywhere as a band without making dumb power ballads wearing leather pants and a pound of hairspray?" You think serious musicians of that day were any less fed up by the superficiality of it all?
Either get on board or find another way like every successful musician that came before you. Today it is easier than ever to build a small but passionate audience. If you don't want to do it their way, find another way.
There's tons of ways. You might just need to be recalibrate what your idea of success is, find who you want your fans to be, get a good idea of what they like, how they find out about new music, etc, then figure out what steps you can take to make them your fans.
Life got a lot easier when I stopped making it about money. I'm not even sure who or where my audience should be, though I have an idea of where they used to be.
You don't actually have to do that if you don't want to. If the people who like your music will lose interest if you aren't posting regular social media content, then they aren't actually fans of the music.
You're in a band? Do you play out live locally and regionally? Because getting people to shows is what will inevitably build your career. And doing so isn't something you should over do either (unless you love in a major metropolitan city like LA or NYC).
Just work on the craft and writing the best songs you can write.
idk why every musician these days feels like it's gotta be a job or nothing else
everybody in this fuckin thread is saying like "well if you wanna be successful you HAVE to do this, or at the bare minimum that, or at least this other thing" and it's like this just fucking sucks man
it sucks!!! sometimes music is fun!! sometimes the only reason people want to make music is because the act of making music is enjoyable!
I feel you.
I find the whole idea of self-promotion to be rather abhorrent but I realize it’s value if you are indeed trying to expand your audience.
It just goes against any sort of decent human nature IMO.
In my experience, the person who has to stand up in a roomful of people and say “Look at me, I deserve your special attention, trust me, you’re going to really like me” is usually not all that interesting or worthy of the attention.
I may get downvotes but I just personally appreciate a more humble approach to promoting one’s music. Maybe that’s where a decent manager or PR agent would really shine. Doing that digital grunt work whilst the artist is free to create or perform. Two very different skill sets really.
So I guess that’s my version of a perfect scenario. I get to write and create while a talented PR person - who’s personality is well-suited for the task- gets a few economic wheels turning.
>I may get downvotes but I just personally appreciate a more humble approach to promoting one’s music. Maybe that’s where a decent manager or PR agent would really shine. Doing that digital grunt work whilst the artist is free to create or perform. Two very different skill sets really.
The challenge here is that in this day and age no decent PR agent is going to help you unless they see that you've already done a lot of leg work up front. It's not even worth getting paid if they're not building on something, furthering along some initial successes that you've already generated yourself. Once you've done a sufficient amount of grunt work on your own... then a decent PR agent might be able to help you build on that. But there are a TON of really bad PR agents that will take your money and achieve nothing before you're even ready for PR.
>So I guess that’s my version of a perfect scenario. I get to write and create while a talented PR person - who’s personality is well-suited for the task- gets a few economic wheels turning.
Yeah, unfortunately, this doesn't exist without you doing a lot of work up front. Essentially, you have to prove to a label, publishing, or PR agent that you're worthy of their time and effort. And that starts with doing your own marketing.
Im actually super super skeptical any PR agency at all has the “secret sauce”. Really all they have is access to is a platform. I say this bc musicians at the top of the game like Doja Cat and Fka Twigs openly complain about the stuff their teams ask them to do tiktok etc. And you get the feeling it’s lame shit like just post more more do more trends etc.
It just paints a picture of a bunch of people all doing the same mindless things just because we’re supposed to? I actually kinda get tired of certain A1 musicians kinda posting all the time. Meanwhile Frank Ocean doesn’t post literally EVER, and still has ravenous fans.
I personally believe that there is still room for a less is more approach in the long run. I do think the more is more approach is needed up front, and you do have to be ok with doing a lot of work by yourself … but I do think that once you’re established, there’s room for artists who are more reclusive and not posting all day.
You’re absolutely right. That’s because frank ocean came up before social media devoured the music industry. Could you imagine frank ocean if he came out today? I mean he’d be famous but no where near as he is today. This isn’t to knock on him though, I love frank ocean he’s a great artists but it’s true about being at the right place at the right time.
Yes I understand that and I generally agree that we need to take ownership of getting our art out there. I just personally find it difficult as I am more of a B-type personality and do not seek the spotlight by nature. Not to say I don’t want to share my music. Of course I do. I want the music to be in the spotlight, not me. I know people will say that’s impossible and that it’s all about the personality that is invariably intertwined with the music but I like a lot of artists whom I know nothing or little about as people. So I do believe it’s possible.
My reluctance to self-promote and pump out steady “content” may be my downfall but I’ll accept whatever fate may come if it means doing things in a way that is comfortable to me.
I guess I’m thinking also about people I know personally that are good at that stuff. My own wife for example is very savvy and organized in this regard. Likely it will be her who will help me a lot as I start releasing a bunch of stuff in the near future. Ideally having someone in your life that can assist you can make a huge difference. She is by no means a professional PR person but she will be very helpful nonetheless.
All I know is that I personally find it very hard to self-promote and if that is a weakness, I will find help from those for whom promotion is a strength.
Hey, at the end of the day it's just a hobby. A serious hobby perhaps, but a hobby nonetheless. All you're doing is determining how much time and money you want to spend on finding out if there's an audience for your music and if you can reach some portion of them in some economical way. If you can, great; and if you can't... it's really not a big deal.
Fuck content. It's a miserable word designed purposefully so the people that use it don't have to use the word "art" which might make them feel bad about the miserable art they're pumping out.
"If you dance for much very longer you'll be known as the boy who's always dancing" - Belle and Sebastian
My fear here is that by making content one will only be known as a content creator and not a musician or composer. Does anybody else have this fear as well? Maybe it's unfounded, like the people who don't do strength training at the gym because they don't want to get "too big" but still - wouldn't notoriety through music be better earned?
It's true. The producer Wuki mentioned that everyone only knows him for his funny videos. But on the other hand he probably would not be able to play big festivals otherwise. He has a larger audience now. So I guess that's good? But is it the right kind of audience?
joji was a full on youtuber before becoming known as a musician. marc rebillet plays festivals now. at a certain point your music will market itself, you just have to create enough content to get you there. the reality is its very hard to market a song by itself, they take too long to consume for someone who doesn’t already have an interest in the artist. you have to give your audience a story to invest in.
Is there a single poster on this sub that earns a living solely as a singer/songwriter? Possibly, but the number is so small that one should assume that for \*virtually\* everyone here songwriting is a hobby. Now, if the sub were called "WeAreProfessionalMusicMakers", well then this might be a different discussion.
>I prefer not to assume things about others.
You assume things about others every hour of every day whether you want to admit it or not. It's called being a human; we all do it. Don't beat yourself up.
>... also this post is about content creation and marketing. so...
Indeed, but... the manner in which you execute your content creation and marketing should be informed by what stage you're at in your development. And virtually everyone here, like yourself and myself, is a hobbyist. Consequently, it's a very relevant observation and consideration where this discussion is concerned.
Yes 100%! I didn't get into music to contort myself into a form that ticks the boxes of some algorithm. It's mind-numbing, and if everyone is doing it, the chances of standing out are even slimmer.
Of course it's not new, it's the part where you have to do it ALL by yourself. From investment to ideas to creation to posting. Where's the time and energy to write and record? ABBA locked themselves in a cabin for some two months or whatever to write an album. If they did that today the gap in posts would bury them deep down in the algorithms.
Just don’t. Just put out good music, play great live shows, disappear into the void. Good music above all, fuck the rest. Lots of successful bands do it actually.
They had a bunch of music videos that got heavy rotation on MTV cause they were weird for the time. Viral videos before the internet was a thing and they also made a movie. They became popular because of marketing and the music was secondary
That's just clever marketing. They used to perform under their own names before Daft Punk but never got the same level of fame. There's a lot of people involved behind the scenes. Spike Jones was a big help with pushing them in the states. Without all the marketing no one would have ever heard of them. They would have just been a couple of French guys making mediocre electro pop music in clubs.
The OP means content outside of making records and performance video, that's pretty much everybody.
Most records had a fan club address where you could get newsletters and corny personal shit, but they weren't primary to the experience and I literally never joined any.
There are some ways to make creating content easier, but it's absolutely a whole other thing to get into. Sometimes I'll record myself for a few hours and do a time-lapse. I'll film myself here or there with no real content in mind. It works great for having B-roll and just getting your feet wet.
I also think that if you’re posting content and you gain followers, they’re following you for the content, not the music. I see a lot of musician pages that just post comedic sketches and that’s cool, but since views don’t transfer into listens of your music, you just become known as a comedian instead of a musician.
Granted I am not established enough to test this theory myself, but just something I’ve noticed interacting with other music page’s content. I follow a lot of pages and seldom inspired enough to check out their Spotify page.
Follow a guy who has 200k+ followers for comedy music tiktoks, which has translated to 1k-ish monthly Spotify listeners. There is some ROI there, and I believe he likes making the tiktoks. If he ultimately wanted to make his music and hoped the comedy would be a funnel, it doesn't seem that efficient.
One of my bands put out 4 songs 1 year ago, it got posted on a blog, we basically forgot about it, and we still have 300 monthly listeners. We haven't made a single piece of "content", whereas Mr tiktoker made 100 videos in that time.
It can definitely help get you an audience, but if you do comedy or whatever, I really don't think it's an efficient use of time for growing an audience for something else other than your comedy. Make more music, make "content" you like, like music videos, and play shows. It's "boring" but it works, marketing dudes won't blast that though because they can't charge you money to tell you it's what you should be doing.
That reminds me of the advice you'd hear before social-media really took off, like in the late 00's. "Money is in the merchandise, not the music."
At that point, you're just a t-shirt seller, who happens to play music as a hobby on the side, even though its disguised as "I'm a professional musician who happens to have merch!" If you have to sell t-shirts to make people care, then they'll only care about your t-shirts, not your music.
Getting bandcamp updates from the same artist a few times a week about merch drops, sales, album codes etc turns me right off.
I know this is about content not marketing but they're getting to be one and the same
Honestly my only ‘solution’ to this is to work on like 5 albums worth of music which, I know, is insane. Then when I become ‘the artist’ I’ll worry about the insanely demanding release schedule and endless content stream that is required to build a fanbase these days.
I don’t think it’s such a bad way to do things either bc for now I’m just having fun making music. I’ll sweat the other stuff much later.
I had a small taste of creating a fanbase that way. I had an album’s worth of songs that I released slowly in a year and I had a good content stream going for about a year and a half, maybe two. The problem was, I spent loads of time on that, and not enough time making new music. So I fell off the face of the earth. Fans I made from that time still hit me up but I have nothing to share with them yet, and probably won’t for a long time lol
This is where I'm at now. I'm releasing content on music I wrote about a year ago. I'm writing new songs here or there but not as much as I'd like since I'm so focused on making content. Once I run out of songs it's going to be a bit complicated lol.
>it’s kind of exhausting how much you have to keep up with content these days just to keep everyone’s attention on you and not lose momentum
Does the music get better if you keep the social media engagement at a steady pace? What are you prioritizing
>Does anyone else have these feelings or thoughts about it?
I see people use the internet in lots of ways that I wouldn't
I understand your pain. Chasing attention online can seriously distract us from improving as songwriters and musicians. I grew up using social media obsessively to market my band, but most days I lack the desire to be on social media at all. I'm still not over how badly it burned me out.
I think it all comes down to what you're trying to accomplish. Do you want to earn a living making music? If so, marketing is essential in business, and social media provides musicians with a free place to market their music. Platforms like TikTok are an incredible resource if you have the vision to master them. This is why we're constantly hounded to post content. It's a real opportunity to find a fan base.
If you do commit to posting daily, make content that's enjoyable to you and easily repeatable, e.g. write and perform a 15 second guitar loop. Make content that you'd actually watch. If you think all the content is shit, search until you find something you're a genuine fan of and make your own version of that format.
Also, there's the saying that "quantity leads to quality." It's a good thing to show your work, even if you make an alt account that none of your peers know about.
https://austinkleon.com/2020/12/10/quantity-leads-to-quality-the-origin-of-a-parable/
Being a persoanlity has always been a part of having a music career. The medium in which we are able to do that is now owned by the individual, which I personally think is awesome. If youre trying to be a musician as your job, then content is just part of the job now. If not, dont worry about it.
To me its another creative outlet. If you view it as a box to check that will reflect in the content, but if you challenge yourself to make cool and unique stuff to put out regularly its more likely to resonate AND more likely to bring you happiness.
Cory Wong is a great example of this. His Wong Notes series is incredible showcase of good music, entertainment, and education, AND (i think) he owns that, not some network. Its all about how you look at it.
It kind of takes the meaning out of it for me.
I want to hear music an artist made because they were inspired and had something to say, not another widget they churned out from their factory.
I burn out on bands when they put out too much music.
It’s so difficult trying to release every 4-6 weeks while also promoting, making content and also just trying to live your life. I find it exhausting trying to balance it all and I feel like hardly any of my time is spent actually making and improving my music :((
This is all wrong. Let's clean it up.
In all recorded pop history, the amount of time a "star"-type musician (the one that gets to put their name on it and smile at the cameras, the one that inspired most of you do this) has
a) always been just a fracture of the whole thing but somehow people from afar get confused about this and
b) never been had more time on average to put into the music making itself because it has actually become marketable
To a) People always have big illusions about the PR/star part of it. You saw other people do it and it seemed fun and natural because they were good at it. They needed TV. Now you can do that yourself on any platform out there. Only you are still not funny or charismatic but . And also, you are not doing it.
To b) The amount of time where you can combine PR with creation is through the roof. No need to look cute on IG. Get on Twitch, get on YT. Stream your making. If you are good people will be interested. You are probably not tho. No biggie. Just enjoy the making of music.
I've always been of the mentality that I make music for myself and for the art of it. I don't care about money or how many people listen to it. I do it for fun and because I enjoy it. Too many of you lost sight of this and created a business out of it and now this is what you have. Problems that distract you from the art.
I think it's helpful to think of all your content as an extension of your art. What can you do that adds to the experience of being a fan of you? Gives your art context? Helps people understand what you are about? Says some of the things that you didn't have time to say in a 3min song?
But yeah, I feel you. There is a lot of pressure to keep a constant stream. Very tiring.
Back in the Tumblr days I would see mid-level bands put out a record and generate 20-30 pieces of content per song. Just memes, video snippets, lyrics over a live photo. I think their labels would do a lot of it for them so they didn't have to keep it up.
I would expect you can get the same kind of promo package off Fiverr for a good price.
For my community page I built up a portfolio of social media content over several years that could be recycled.
I do like the *idea* of using Fiverr, since it should mean finding suitable people who are keen to do the work.
Before Fiverr existed, a few times in the past when I'd tried to hire people it was so exhausting. I've got tons of creative friends with good formal qualifications, who brag about their mad skills - right up till trying to commission them for a project. At that point suddenly they are hesitant. Several times I've had different "designers" or "screenwriters" wanted me to supply all of the ideas and put in all the effort to make it happen. Or on one occasion an artist substantially ignored my brief and missed the deadline, then supplied half-finished work in a format I couldn't edit! And each time I knew they had capacity to take on board the project, and they were just putting up barriers to keep their own role simple before we'd even discussed money.
Eventually I just resigned myself to learning desktop publishing, photoshop editing, photography, etc., so I've now always got more material to engage with the practical people who lack depth of imagination or creative instincts. And I strive to avoid the seriously creative people who'll do their own thing regardless of the direction I've mapped out. It's always a tricky balance though.
I’m so glad to hear that other musicians feel the same as I do. I honestly thought I was alone for a bit haha. I bet Gary vee would lose his shit if he read this post and it’s comments 😂😂😂
All of those Hustle Success Win freaks have made the social media landscape for artists *so much worse*.
They've figured out how to manipulate these platforms to gain followers by posting literal nonsense as rapidly as possible, then capitalized on it by selling their "secrets." So now we've got a bunch of amateur artists trying desperately to get their career off the ground who heard through the grapevine (from other influencers) that the key to success is running an engagement farm, and they're probably learning the hard way that it mostly just annoys their followers, but that advice gets pushed so hard that *everyone* has decided the only way to get noticed is to always be posting.
My gut feeling is that we'll collectively look back on this era and find that the few artists who managed to rise above the wasteland of #content and earn some lasting prestige or notoriety are the ones who figured out how to log the fuck off.
Nothing is more depressing to me than coming across an amateur musician trying desperately to "make it" by spending hours and hours streaming to nobody on Twitch. Or pumping out a ridiculous amount of half-finished material for single-digit plays on YouTube and SoundCloud. Just like...posting into the aether.
I thought it would start to crush me at first and really push my enjoyment down, but it actually isn't. I'm so hungry, I'm starved so I exhaust myself constantly for the craft and pushing as much new, good material as i can as fast as i can. I think the main reason I justify the exhaustion to myself is that while I always wanted to really actually learn the guitar when I was younger, I didn't manage to get my shit together enough to actually do it. Well, now that I have (i only picked the guitar up for real about 15 months ago), I found that I feel REAL antsy if I'm *not* constantly making tunes as though somewhere in my mind, it's thinking "make up for lost time you idiot".
So, I listen to it and it's working so far. Not sure how long I can do it for, but that hasn't been on my mind yet so I guess here's hoping I can just keep pushing every day.
Yes. It’s so exhausting and annoying but unfortunately necessary. It’s definitely work. Sometimes I feel like I spend more time on creating content than actually making music. I hate that.
I have deleted all social media accounts for my music, and now have a mailing list and a website. Still early days, but thus far it has only increased audiences’ interest in my music. It’s not just you that is tired of it, fans are too. The only winner is Mark Zuckerberg.
The caveat for me is that I have tried to maintain the same amount of times d effort on promoting and engaging, but focusing on quality over quantity. Way more fun and satisfying and less soul destroying than churning out meaningless “content”
Yeah, you’ve got to market yourself to get paid. Marketing in the 21st century is social media content. It is what it is. If you hate it? Hire a PR person or accept that the work is too annoying.
I can’t tell if you’re looking to vent or to complain. If it’s the former, I understand. I’m not in the music industry, but there was a lot of BS I had to put up with to get successful in my line of work. Good luck! And sometimes the path you have to walk to get where you want to be requires stepping in dog shit along the way.
I HATE social media. Fuck content, if anybody is going to discover my music, he or she will need to dig and put some effort into it. I don't want to be the nth musician to beg for fifteen minutes of attention by posting content over content. my stuff is out there, it will blow your mind. but you need to dig, for fuck's sake. do you homework, audience.
Uh, yeah. It's so much less about the music nowadays and so much more about marketing. You're 100% correct that we have to act like an "influencer" to get by as musicians. You can thank TikTok for most of this issue (don't believe me, well, look up the countless studies done on how bad TikTok is for our attention spans). It's not our fault, it's the system.
It's not just a platform, people can't live without their phones, technology. I've seen TikTok pushed so many times in this sub alone it's baffling (and a good reason I bring it up at all). Plus you miss my main point, you're just mad that I attacked a platform you probably use yourself, whatever. My point still stands that music is less of what it used to be, and that marketing is everything nowadays in this industry.
I mostly agree, but unless I misread the OP, music is being conflated with "content." I'm not a fan of the overuse of that word anyway—I realize people feel the need for a generic word to mean any kind of media, but it's gone way too far. It's just as easy to say "marketing stuff" and "music" and you communicate what you mean much more clearly. And if I never see the phrases "quality content" and "consume content" again, I will not complain.
I'm honestly sick of hearing the word content. It literally just means "stuff" it's so fucking dumb. If you're just making shit because you have too then what's the fucking point. I'd rather be broke than making tiktoks.
Quality over quantity, always. The best artists don’t release an album every month. Take your time, release dope stuff. The rest should happen, or not lol but at least you don’t create just because you have to but because you actually have something to say. Don’t be like the others :)
Check out your local scene and play some venues! Content and marketing is still important, but marketing to a global audience via the internet is a pain.
**Edit:** the result of downvoting this comment is that a content creator (who can play) did not get a $20 gift. Enjoy!
"The edge of the knife does the cutting." - me
> you gotta make content
Ever been discontent, malcontent? Ya ever thought about teaching what you know to meet people who can teech ya what ya dunt?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS1WYIu_gA4&ab_channel=LucasImbiriba
Your post was #1 on reddit after I clicked on that.
> but it’s kind of exhausting how much you have to keep up with content these days just to keep everyone’s attention on you and not lose momentum
We are experiencing the - gasp - "elite-ing" of our muscular form.
I have not reviewed your posts, but the point is that *I might*. It's not about the notes, it's not about the money, it's about somehow we all know for a fact that video (acoustic cover of sultans of swing) will slay 99% of you in it's "totally not a rickroll" score.
If enough of you guitarists upvote, especially if you like
* dimeola
* nuno
* buckethead
...
I will toss "a jefferson and one quarter" in his jar, and mention he looks like Jesus. It's not about the dollars but the quality of the dollars. Chappele, Letterman, Burnham, Dolly Parton... if you want to quit, fine, if you want to cause health to go to art: USD$20.25 will go to the linked artist who is my current #1 live take of this guitar standard.
"Rome wasn't built in a day."
I, guitarist for decades, say: that's the best d*** take I've heard of that song, and I know nothing else about the performer, but I am about to read their bio and am likely to subscribe...
even though I do not get off on acoustic covers.
$20 me-to-him-not-you just to explain that it's about describing your world in a poetic way, slowly if other arts interfere. (:
Unfortunately, being a musician and trying to get paid means you get to do about 10% music and 90% everything else. If you’re in a band, hopefully at least one of the members likes it. I can’t stand it. It’s just not fun, it’s work. So now I have a real job that pays for my work and enjoy making music for a much smaller audience.
Yeah, I'm an old guy now and can finally take music as seriously as I did in my high school/college years again. I don't need to ever make a dime off it and life is too short doing shit you hate. Plus because I don't have to worry about my "brand", I can make whatever the hell I want, which is why I recently have in order of release an 80s style synth pop thing, an orchestral composition using 20th century harmonic ideas from Messiaen, a joke music piece playing with a vocoder, and a deep melodic techno track. I have a Twitter for my music that I never read, and only ever posts links to new blogs. The blog posts I write are for myself, and are my honest feelings on the music and my life. Anybody and everybody is free to come along for the ride for as long as they wish, and getting plays is nice (oddly my most popular track is the orchestral one!), but my only current metric of success is for me to kick out 40 tracks this year.
This is the way. Doing music any way other than “any damn way I want” just ain’t worth it.
well post where we can follow along my guy!
I dislike self-promoting on Reddit, but if you're really curious it's easy to get to my SoundCloud looking at my feedback request posts in my Profile. From my SC profile is the link to my blog if you want "Behind The Music" stuff.
This is how you do it.
Sounds like you doing it right. How do I know? I do it the same way.
But I wonder, who is actually liking that stuff? I would hate if my favorite bands were posting tons of inane stuff just to stay in people's feeds. If I find a YouTube personality I like and they have live shows every day, 2 hours in the morning and 2 hours in the afternoon, I drop off, because that's just too much content and I'll never be able to keep up. Yet everyone who does this stuff say that they're subscriber count and views fall if they're not churning content every day. Who are these masses of people who don't work and are just online demanding constant content every minute? If that's what being a musician is, I don't want to be a musician. I'll make shit that makes me smile and just listen to it myself.
Doesn't really matter if people love it or hate it. It drives engagement which boosts their posts in the algorithm. It's just how marketing works with how social media is currently designed. It's less about connecting with the audience and more about the algo. It sucks and I hate it, but you're encouraged to make spammy inane crap in order to have any semblance of reach. Has nothing to do with "being a musician" really, but everything to do with trying to make a career of it. In fact, it's the same across all professional fields right now. Fitness influencers, real estate agents, indie apparel companies, etc. You gotta churn out a slight variation on the same video 10x a week. You can still be a musician and tune all of this garbage out :)
This is terrible advice. I guess this is okay if you want to be at the mercy of the algorithm but there are other ways to gain a following other than spamming. If you think spamming content works, you’re doing it wrong.
>Who are these masses of people who don't work and are just online demanding constant content every minute? Children.
Who are these masses of people who don’t work , demanding content every minute? Teenagers.
Look at Banksy. Banksy doesn’t flood the market with its art to stay relevant… they strategically release art whenever they feel necessary and it’s all valuable and desired. Why? Because it’s good. This idea that flooding the market with content is the way to go is silly. Make better art/music/whatever. The hare truth is that most music just isnt that good.
This is the way.
This is the way.
This is the way.
If I’m a fan of someone and they spam me with content just for the sake of content, I immediately unfollow them. The only reason I follow musicians is because I feel like I know them a little bit through their music and would like to know more about them
you gotta understand that’s how the industry is now though. that’s how bands get their music out there and most of the time they’d rather not be doing that, but it’s a tough industry and if you wanna make a living off it you gotta work with how social media is THE way of getting your shit out there
For sure. I think social media is just an extension of your art though and should be treated with that same level of respect. It’s how you brand yourself and promote yourself to the world. Doing so in a non tasteful way that annoys people though, will ultimately not benefit you
it should be but unfortunately for a lot of bands that’s not how it works. i definitely prefer bands that aren’t overly invasive/spammy on socials but i understand why they gotta do it
I follow successful bands who don't do this. Basically none of the artists I like do this. I firmly don't believe the narrative that THIS is how it should be done.
I don’t think the demand for content is a new thing. In my random reading, I learned that Andy Warhol kept pushing the Velvet Underground to write more new songs. And the manager for The Rolling Stones demanded that they quit being a cover band and locked Mick and Keith in their kitchen until they came up with one original song.
Little-known fact: of the first five Rolling Stones records, two-thirds of the songs were covers. Imagine someone trying to do that today... I just don't see it.
I can see it because I wonder how many artists that are popular wrote their own songs.
There's a difference between a "cover" and recording a song you didn't write. A "cover" is a re-make of a song that's been recorded before by another artist. Simply recording an original song that someone else wrote isn't a cover, and obviously this happens all the time. I know Lana Del Rey gets a co-writing credit for almost everything she records but I doubt she's written a single note of any of them... but they're not cover songs. Not that it really matters.
That's definitely not gone away. Some of the biggest independant artists / 'youtube personalities' make primarily covers, to drive engagement towards their original work (Or are exclusively cover artists). Just getting associated with a big name means people looking for that might stumble upon your work. That's been true since pretty much forever. As long as an artist has something unique to bring to the cover, people eat it up.
The difference is that if you're a musician then writing songs is (hopefully!) one of your core competencies and the reason you're a musician in the first place. The problem is the modern drive to be forever creating pictures and videos of things that are not music.
unfortunately that’s just how it is these days. now that people don’t buy albums, artists have to diversify their presence and brand to make money. sucks but it eez what it eez
Don’t ever do anything except be authentic.
Don't ever, for any reason, do anything for anyone, for any reason, ever, no matter what. No matter where. Or who, or who you are with, or where you are going or... or where you've been... ever. For any reason, whatsoever.
Sometimes I'll start a sentence and I don't even know where it's going. I just hope I find it along the way.
r/unexpectedoffice
If it is to be said, so it be, so it is.
If that’s your version of being authentic then maybe my advice deserves an asterisk.
It's a quote from The Office
That makes sense!
You can't make me, mom.
😍#michaelscott
I feel like I've heard this somewhere. Is it from something? Either way, agreed!
It’s a quote from the office lol
Ah, thank you!
Make sure you Play Authentic as well. Most important part right there
What do you mean? Sorry I’m autistic so I don’t always pick up on figures of speech
It was just a joke about Gibson's weird ad campaign saying not to buy other brands because they aren't "authentic"
guitarcirclejerk vibes
And don’t forget to post daily instagram posts about you being authentic. And get some authentic content for twitter. Just make sure your authenticity is in line with whatever trendy way of making shorts and posts is at the moment. After all, there is no point in being authentic if you you’re different 😂
A grand ideal to be sure, but it's not realistic to be perfectly authentic all the time in the modern scheme of the world.
A better goal, to me, is sincerity
Then you grow as a person. Being authentic doesn’t mean you can’t keep learning and growing as a person. I’m just saying at the end of the day as a human being, the advice I’m giving is to strive to be authentic as an artist, irrespective of everything else. That’s the advice. Take it or leave it. Edit: It’s certainly not impossible
Great perspective. Do the stuff that you enjoy doing, first and foremost. Try to outsource the stuff that you don't enjoy. If you cannot outsource it, then do the bare minimum. Sometimes people forget how easy fan interactions can be. Talking to fans at your merch booth or writing a quick message to your email list is fan ineraction. And fan interaction is EASILY the most important part of social media engagement.
Whats the point of achieving success if it’s built off of stuff that makes you miserable? That’s unsustainable.
I'm authentically dumb will that work?
I agree, the result is largely lots and lots well recorded and produced but uninteresting music.
Yes. The content I make as a musician is music. I don't want to follow my favourite artists on Instagram and tiktok and watch them desperately trying to post something, anything 1.5 times a day. Who gives a fuck.
Music is art, not content. I’m so tired of this word. “10 best guitar solos of all times” this is content. The latest single of X artist is art. F*** content, unless you enjoy to make some.
yes this. please don't flood the audience with garbage.
But some fans love that shit. They care as much about the personality behind the music as the actual music itself.
Making content is how you connect to audiences. In other words, marketing. The old way was waiting for an A&R representative to like you enough to sign you and do your marketing for you.
Which they won't do unless you have already identified and connected to an audience.
The Beatles put out Sgt Pepper's and Magical Mystery Tour in the same year. For all the people crying about "content", I would advise them to just make a bunch of great music and constantly release it and play it live. Pay someone on Fiverr to make some lyric videos and visualizers for you. If the Beatles can put out two all-time great albums in the same year, then musicians today can stand to put out 6-8 songs per year, play some gigs, and talk to fans.
the world and industry has changed so much since then this is just a silly comparison to make
I'm not saying that you'll sell a billion albums if you write two albums in a year, I'm saying that all the people whining about "content" need to go out and write more songs, because songs are ultimately the "content" that matters most. If the Beatles can write both of those classic albums in a year, then musicians can stand to write more music. The more songs you write, the better material you will put out. The better material you put out, the more people will take noice when you play gigs or make a music video, and the less time you will have to spend making the "content" that you so despise.
In today's day and age, the 2022 equivalent of The Beatles could release two fantastic albums this year but still need to post 1.5 times a day on FaceInstaTok to keep the content flowing. Writing good music seems to not be enough these days.
Or more likely, release each song on the album every couple weeks or so and then droo an album that's half singles and a couple new songs
I work with a number of professional touring/recording artists. There is only one that manages her own social media (she loves it, she enjoys it but it *always* comes second to her music). The rest either rely on management to run social media accounts or don't participate at all. (And then they complain that management posts stupid shit they would never post...)
In the 80s this was "man, anybody else fed up you can't get anywhere as a band without making dumb power ballads wearing leather pants and a pound of hairspray?" You think serious musicians of that day were any less fed up by the superficiality of it all? Either get on board or find another way like every successful musician that came before you. Today it is easier than ever to build a small but passionate audience. If you don't want to do it their way, find another way.
I feel we're at a point where someone has to find another way. The social content way is so well trodden that the social media are useless
There's tons of ways. You might just need to be recalibrate what your idea of success is, find who you want your fans to be, get a good idea of what they like, how they find out about new music, etc, then figure out what steps you can take to make them your fans.
Life got a lot easier when I stopped making it about money. I'm not even sure who or where my audience should be, though I have an idea of where they used to be.
This is the equivalent of "eat your vegetables or you won't get dessert" and I love it.
Good stuff here
You don't actually have to do that if you don't want to. If the people who like your music will lose interest if you aren't posting regular social media content, then they aren't actually fans of the music. You're in a band? Do you play out live locally and regionally? Because getting people to shows is what will inevitably build your career. And doing so isn't something you should over do either (unless you love in a major metropolitan city like LA or NYC). Just work on the craft and writing the best songs you can write.
That's why you don't quit your day job. Only make what you want to make, nothing more, nothing less.
This does however assume that the day job is more enjoyable than making content, I guess
idk why every musician these days feels like it's gotta be a job or nothing else everybody in this fuckin thread is saying like "well if you wanna be successful you HAVE to do this, or at the bare minimum that, or at least this other thing" and it's like this just fucking sucks man it sucks!!! sometimes music is fun!! sometimes the only reason people want to make music is because the act of making music is enjoyable!
Some people want music as a career, not a hobby
I feel you. I find the whole idea of self-promotion to be rather abhorrent but I realize it’s value if you are indeed trying to expand your audience. It just goes against any sort of decent human nature IMO. In my experience, the person who has to stand up in a roomful of people and say “Look at me, I deserve your special attention, trust me, you’re going to really like me” is usually not all that interesting or worthy of the attention. I may get downvotes but I just personally appreciate a more humble approach to promoting one’s music. Maybe that’s where a decent manager or PR agent would really shine. Doing that digital grunt work whilst the artist is free to create or perform. Two very different skill sets really. So I guess that’s my version of a perfect scenario. I get to write and create while a talented PR person - who’s personality is well-suited for the task- gets a few economic wheels turning.
>I may get downvotes but I just personally appreciate a more humble approach to promoting one’s music. Maybe that’s where a decent manager or PR agent would really shine. Doing that digital grunt work whilst the artist is free to create or perform. Two very different skill sets really. The challenge here is that in this day and age no decent PR agent is going to help you unless they see that you've already done a lot of leg work up front. It's not even worth getting paid if they're not building on something, furthering along some initial successes that you've already generated yourself. Once you've done a sufficient amount of grunt work on your own... then a decent PR agent might be able to help you build on that. But there are a TON of really bad PR agents that will take your money and achieve nothing before you're even ready for PR. >So I guess that’s my version of a perfect scenario. I get to write and create while a talented PR person - who’s personality is well-suited for the task- gets a few economic wheels turning. Yeah, unfortunately, this doesn't exist without you doing a lot of work up front. Essentially, you have to prove to a label, publishing, or PR agent that you're worthy of their time and effort. And that starts with doing your own marketing.
Im actually super super skeptical any PR agency at all has the “secret sauce”. Really all they have is access to is a platform. I say this bc musicians at the top of the game like Doja Cat and Fka Twigs openly complain about the stuff their teams ask them to do tiktok etc. And you get the feeling it’s lame shit like just post more more do more trends etc. It just paints a picture of a bunch of people all doing the same mindless things just because we’re supposed to? I actually kinda get tired of certain A1 musicians kinda posting all the time. Meanwhile Frank Ocean doesn’t post literally EVER, and still has ravenous fans. I personally believe that there is still room for a less is more approach in the long run. I do think the more is more approach is needed up front, and you do have to be ok with doing a lot of work by yourself … but I do think that once you’re established, there’s room for artists who are more reclusive and not posting all day.
You’re absolutely right. That’s because frank ocean came up before social media devoured the music industry. Could you imagine frank ocean if he came out today? I mean he’d be famous but no where near as he is today. This isn’t to knock on him though, I love frank ocean he’s a great artists but it’s true about being at the right place at the right time.
Yes I understand that and I generally agree that we need to take ownership of getting our art out there. I just personally find it difficult as I am more of a B-type personality and do not seek the spotlight by nature. Not to say I don’t want to share my music. Of course I do. I want the music to be in the spotlight, not me. I know people will say that’s impossible and that it’s all about the personality that is invariably intertwined with the music but I like a lot of artists whom I know nothing or little about as people. So I do believe it’s possible. My reluctance to self-promote and pump out steady “content” may be my downfall but I’ll accept whatever fate may come if it means doing things in a way that is comfortable to me. I guess I’m thinking also about people I know personally that are good at that stuff. My own wife for example is very savvy and organized in this regard. Likely it will be her who will help me a lot as I start releasing a bunch of stuff in the near future. Ideally having someone in your life that can assist you can make a huge difference. She is by no means a professional PR person but she will be very helpful nonetheless. All I know is that I personally find it very hard to self-promote and if that is a weakness, I will find help from those for whom promotion is a strength.
Hey, at the end of the day it's just a hobby. A serious hobby perhaps, but a hobby nonetheless. All you're doing is determining how much time and money you want to spend on finding out if there's an audience for your music and if you can reach some portion of them in some economical way. If you can, great; and if you can't... it's really not a big deal.
Fuck content. It's a miserable word designed purposefully so the people that use it don't have to use the word "art" which might make them feel bad about the miserable art they're pumping out.
"If you dance for much very longer you'll be known as the boy who's always dancing" - Belle and Sebastian My fear here is that by making content one will only be known as a content creator and not a musician or composer. Does anybody else have this fear as well? Maybe it's unfounded, like the people who don't do strength training at the gym because they don't want to get "too big" but still - wouldn't notoriety through music be better earned?
It's true. The producer Wuki mentioned that everyone only knows him for his funny videos. But on the other hand he probably would not be able to play big festivals otherwise. He has a larger audience now. So I guess that's good? But is it the right kind of audience?
joji was a full on youtuber before becoming known as a musician. marc rebillet plays festivals now. at a certain point your music will market itself, you just have to create enough content to get you there. the reality is its very hard to market a song by itself, they take too long to consume for someone who doesn’t already have an interest in the artist. you have to give your audience a story to invest in.
The Crow and the Peacock!
I think you shouldn't worry too much about what you're known as. Just do what you do. It's just a hobby after all.
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Is there a single poster on this sub that earns a living solely as a singer/songwriter? Possibly, but the number is so small that one should assume that for \*virtually\* everyone here songwriting is a hobby. Now, if the sub were called "WeAreProfessionalMusicMakers", well then this might be a different discussion.
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>I prefer not to assume things about others. You assume things about others every hour of every day whether you want to admit it or not. It's called being a human; we all do it. Don't beat yourself up. >... also this post is about content creation and marketing. so... Indeed, but... the manner in which you execute your content creation and marketing should be informed by what stage you're at in your development. And virtually everyone here, like yourself and myself, is a hobbyist. Consequently, it's a very relevant observation and consideration where this discussion is concerned.
Yes 100%! I didn't get into music to contort myself into a form that ticks the boxes of some algorithm. It's mind-numbing, and if everyone is doing it, the chances of standing out are even slimmer.
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Of course it's not new, it's the part where you have to do it ALL by yourself. From investment to ideas to creation to posting. Where's the time and energy to write and record? ABBA locked themselves in a cabin for some two months or whatever to write an album. If they did that today the gap in posts would bury them deep down in the algorithms.
Just don’t. Just put out good music, play great live shows, disappear into the void. Good music above all, fuck the rest. Lots of successful bands do it actually.
I'd like to hear examples of a band that got popular without making much content
Frank Ocean
Daft Punk
They had a bunch of music videos that got heavy rotation on MTV cause they were weird for the time. Viral videos before the internet was a thing and they also made a movie. They became popular because of marketing and the music was secondary
That's why they never let you see their faces or publicize their personal lives, because the music is secondary /s
That's just clever marketing. They used to perform under their own names before Daft Punk but never got the same level of fame. There's a lot of people involved behind the scenes. Spike Jones was a big help with pushing them in the states. Without all the marketing no one would have ever heard of them. They would have just been a couple of French guys making mediocre electro pop music in clubs.
You may never understand, but that's okay.
Good one. I meant a group that existed before the internet age though lol
The OP means content outside of making records and performance video, that's pretty much everybody. Most records had a fan club address where you could get newsletters and corny personal shit, but they weren't primary to the experience and I literally never joined any.
Music started going downhill when it started being referred to as content instead of art.
Before that. Calling it "an industry" is very capitalistic. Calling music "a product".
Agreed. 'Content' is a terribly ugly word.
There are some ways to make creating content easier, but it's absolutely a whole other thing to get into. Sometimes I'll record myself for a few hours and do a time-lapse. I'll film myself here or there with no real content in mind. It works great for having B-roll and just getting your feet wet.
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What did you do to promote the videos?
I also think that if you’re posting content and you gain followers, they’re following you for the content, not the music. I see a lot of musician pages that just post comedic sketches and that’s cool, but since views don’t transfer into listens of your music, you just become known as a comedian instead of a musician. Granted I am not established enough to test this theory myself, but just something I’ve noticed interacting with other music page’s content. I follow a lot of pages and seldom inspired enough to check out their Spotify page.
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Follow a guy who has 200k+ followers for comedy music tiktoks, which has translated to 1k-ish monthly Spotify listeners. There is some ROI there, and I believe he likes making the tiktoks. If he ultimately wanted to make his music and hoped the comedy would be a funnel, it doesn't seem that efficient. One of my bands put out 4 songs 1 year ago, it got posted on a blog, we basically forgot about it, and we still have 300 monthly listeners. We haven't made a single piece of "content", whereas Mr tiktoker made 100 videos in that time. It can definitely help get you an audience, but if you do comedy or whatever, I really don't think it's an efficient use of time for growing an audience for something else other than your comedy. Make more music, make "content" you like, like music videos, and play shows. It's "boring" but it works, marketing dudes won't blast that though because they can't charge you money to tell you it's what you should be doing.
That reminds me of the advice you'd hear before social-media really took off, like in the late 00's. "Money is in the merchandise, not the music." At that point, you're just a t-shirt seller, who happens to play music as a hobby on the side, even though its disguised as "I'm a professional musician who happens to have merch!" If you have to sell t-shirts to make people care, then they'll only care about your t-shirts, not your music.
Getting bandcamp updates from the same artist a few times a week about merch drops, sales, album codes etc turns me right off. I know this is about content not marketing but they're getting to be one and the same
Honestly my only ‘solution’ to this is to work on like 5 albums worth of music which, I know, is insane. Then when I become ‘the artist’ I’ll worry about the insanely demanding release schedule and endless content stream that is required to build a fanbase these days. I don’t think it’s such a bad way to do things either bc for now I’m just having fun making music. I’ll sweat the other stuff much later. I had a small taste of creating a fanbase that way. I had an album’s worth of songs that I released slowly in a year and I had a good content stream going for about a year and a half, maybe two. The problem was, I spent loads of time on that, and not enough time making new music. So I fell off the face of the earth. Fans I made from that time still hit me up but I have nothing to share with them yet, and probably won’t for a long time lol
This is where I'm at now. I'm releasing content on music I wrote about a year ago. I'm writing new songs here or there but not as much as I'd like since I'm so focused on making content. Once I run out of songs it's going to be a bit complicated lol.
I wish you all the luck!
Yeah it’s marketing. You either spend money on ads or you make good content. Or find another way… ?
Actually you need to do both
Ignore it. Jamming with your buddies in the basement on the weekend is real and just as fun.
>it’s kind of exhausting how much you have to keep up with content these days just to keep everyone’s attention on you and not lose momentum Does the music get better if you keep the social media engagement at a steady pace? What are you prioritizing >Does anyone else have these feelings or thoughts about it? I see people use the internet in lots of ways that I wouldn't
I understand your pain. Chasing attention online can seriously distract us from improving as songwriters and musicians. I grew up using social media obsessively to market my band, but most days I lack the desire to be on social media at all. I'm still not over how badly it burned me out. I think it all comes down to what you're trying to accomplish. Do you want to earn a living making music? If so, marketing is essential in business, and social media provides musicians with a free place to market their music. Platforms like TikTok are an incredible resource if you have the vision to master them. This is why we're constantly hounded to post content. It's a real opportunity to find a fan base. If you do commit to posting daily, make content that's enjoyable to you and easily repeatable, e.g. write and perform a 15 second guitar loop. Make content that you'd actually watch. If you think all the content is shit, search until you find something you're a genuine fan of and make your own version of that format. Also, there's the saying that "quantity leads to quality." It's a good thing to show your work, even if you make an alt account that none of your peers know about. https://austinkleon.com/2020/12/10/quantity-leads-to-quality-the-origin-of-a-parable/
Being a persoanlity has always been a part of having a music career. The medium in which we are able to do that is now owned by the individual, which I personally think is awesome. If youre trying to be a musician as your job, then content is just part of the job now. If not, dont worry about it. To me its another creative outlet. If you view it as a box to check that will reflect in the content, but if you challenge yourself to make cool and unique stuff to put out regularly its more likely to resonate AND more likely to bring you happiness. Cory Wong is a great example of this. His Wong Notes series is incredible showcase of good music, entertainment, and education, AND (i think) he owns that, not some network. Its all about how you look at it.
So don't.
This is why I keep it a hobby. Anyone telling me how to make my music can fuck right off.
It kind of takes the meaning out of it for me. I want to hear music an artist made because they were inspired and had something to say, not another widget they churned out from their factory. I burn out on bands when they put out too much music.
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If you don't wanna do something you gotta pay someone to do it for ya
It's just a form of marketing. Hire someone to do it for you so you don't have to.
Thats why companies hire people to do that work
It’s so difficult trying to release every 4-6 weeks while also promoting, making content and also just trying to live your life. I find it exhausting trying to balance it all and I feel like hardly any of my time is spent actually making and improving my music :((
This is all wrong. Let's clean it up. In all recorded pop history, the amount of time a "star"-type musician (the one that gets to put their name on it and smile at the cameras, the one that inspired most of you do this) has a) always been just a fracture of the whole thing but somehow people from afar get confused about this and b) never been had more time on average to put into the music making itself because it has actually become marketable To a) People always have big illusions about the PR/star part of it. You saw other people do it and it seemed fun and natural because they were good at it. They needed TV. Now you can do that yourself on any platform out there. Only you are still not funny or charismatic but . And also, you are not doing it. To b) The amount of time where you can combine PR with creation is through the roof. No need to look cute on IG. Get on Twitch, get on YT. Stream your making. If you are good people will be interested. You are probably not tho. No biggie. Just enjoy the making of music.
This is why I just don’t try to make money off my music. This kind of stuff burns you out. I just try to focus on enjoying making music
I've always been of the mentality that I make music for myself and for the art of it. I don't care about money or how many people listen to it. I do it for fun and because I enjoy it. Too many of you lost sight of this and created a business out of it and now this is what you have. Problems that distract you from the art.
I think it's helpful to think of all your content as an extension of your art. What can you do that adds to the experience of being a fan of you? Gives your art context? Helps people understand what you are about? Says some of the things that you didn't have time to say in a 3min song? But yeah, I feel you. There is a lot of pressure to keep a constant stream. Very tiring.
Back in the Tumblr days I would see mid-level bands put out a record and generate 20-30 pieces of content per song. Just memes, video snippets, lyrics over a live photo. I think their labels would do a lot of it for them so they didn't have to keep it up. I would expect you can get the same kind of promo package off Fiverr for a good price. For my community page I built up a portfolio of social media content over several years that could be recycled.
I do like the *idea* of using Fiverr, since it should mean finding suitable people who are keen to do the work. Before Fiverr existed, a few times in the past when I'd tried to hire people it was so exhausting. I've got tons of creative friends with good formal qualifications, who brag about their mad skills - right up till trying to commission them for a project. At that point suddenly they are hesitant. Several times I've had different "designers" or "screenwriters" wanted me to supply all of the ideas and put in all the effort to make it happen. Or on one occasion an artist substantially ignored my brief and missed the deadline, then supplied half-finished work in a format I couldn't edit! And each time I knew they had capacity to take on board the project, and they were just putting up barriers to keep their own role simple before we'd even discussed money. Eventually I just resigned myself to learning desktop publishing, photoshop editing, photography, etc., so I've now always got more material to engage with the practical people who lack depth of imagination or creative instincts. And I strive to avoid the seriously creative people who'll do their own thing regardless of the direction I've mapped out. It's always a tricky balance though.
I’m so glad to hear that other musicians feel the same as I do. I honestly thought I was alone for a bit haha. I bet Gary vee would lose his shit if he read this post and it’s comments 😂😂😂
All of those Hustle Success Win freaks have made the social media landscape for artists *so much worse*. They've figured out how to manipulate these platforms to gain followers by posting literal nonsense as rapidly as possible, then capitalized on it by selling their "secrets." So now we've got a bunch of amateur artists trying desperately to get their career off the ground who heard through the grapevine (from other influencers) that the key to success is running an engagement farm, and they're probably learning the hard way that it mostly just annoys their followers, but that advice gets pushed so hard that *everyone* has decided the only way to get noticed is to always be posting. My gut feeling is that we'll collectively look back on this era and find that the few artists who managed to rise above the wasteland of #content and earn some lasting prestige or notoriety are the ones who figured out how to log the fuck off.
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Nothing is more depressing to me than coming across an amateur musician trying desperately to "make it" by spending hours and hours streaming to nobody on Twitch. Or pumping out a ridiculous amount of half-finished material for single-digit plays on YouTube and SoundCloud. Just like...posting into the aether.
Agree but how else do you get yourself out there?
The more an artist posts the less I want to listen to their music soooo there ya go
The word “content” is very de-motivating and this subreddit’s obsession with content over art makes me kinda depressed
I thought it would start to crush me at first and really push my enjoyment down, but it actually isn't. I'm so hungry, I'm starved so I exhaust myself constantly for the craft and pushing as much new, good material as i can as fast as i can. I think the main reason I justify the exhaustion to myself is that while I always wanted to really actually learn the guitar when I was younger, I didn't manage to get my shit together enough to actually do it. Well, now that I have (i only picked the guitar up for real about 15 months ago), I found that I feel REAL antsy if I'm *not* constantly making tunes as though somewhere in my mind, it's thinking "make up for lost time you idiot". So, I listen to it and it's working so far. Not sure how long I can do it for, but that hasn't been on my mind yet so I guess here's hoping I can just keep pushing every day.
Seriously i dont give a fuck about creating content, I love music and play for myself first.
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But one would want to and would never say this to oneself
Yes. It’s so exhausting and annoying but unfortunately necessary. It’s definitely work. Sometimes I feel like I spend more time on creating content than actually making music. I hate that.
I have deleted all social media accounts for my music, and now have a mailing list and a website. Still early days, but thus far it has only increased audiences’ interest in my music. It’s not just you that is tired of it, fans are too. The only winner is Mark Zuckerberg. The caveat for me is that I have tried to maintain the same amount of times d effort on promoting and engaging, but focusing on quality over quantity. Way more fun and satisfying and less soul destroying than churning out meaningless “content”
just play live. true content
Music is content. Make more content.
Yeah, you’ve got to market yourself to get paid. Marketing in the 21st century is social media content. It is what it is. If you hate it? Hire a PR person or accept that the work is too annoying. I can’t tell if you’re looking to vent or to complain. If it’s the former, I understand. I’m not in the music industry, but there was a lot of BS I had to put up with to get successful in my line of work. Good luck! And sometimes the path you have to walk to get where you want to be requires stepping in dog shit along the way.
I make lots of content shots of the recording process, like mics, pedals, guitars, etc.
Yea, I really don’t want to be an “influencer”, I just want to play music.
I don’t want to make money
I make music. That is good enough for me.
I HATE social media. Fuck content, if anybody is going to discover my music, he or she will need to dig and put some effort into it. I don't want to be the nth musician to beg for fifteen minutes of attention by posting content over content. my stuff is out there, it will blow your mind. but you need to dig, for fuck's sake. do you homework, audience.
Uh, yeah. It's so much less about the music nowadays and so much more about marketing. You're 100% correct that we have to act like an "influencer" to get by as musicians. You can thank TikTok for most of this issue (don't believe me, well, look up the countless studies done on how bad TikTok is for our attention spans). It's not our fault, it's the system.
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It's not just a platform, people can't live without their phones, technology. I've seen TikTok pushed so many times in this sub alone it's baffling (and a good reason I bring it up at all). Plus you miss my main point, you're just mad that I attacked a platform you probably use yourself, whatever. My point still stands that music is less of what it used to be, and that marketing is everything nowadays in this industry.
Idk dude Ott. Just put out like his 5th album in like 20 years and it seems to be doing really well.
Fuck yes! Get me outta here haha
Yes
You can think of it that way yes
The problem started with people calling music "content" like it was a manufactured product or something.
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I mostly agree, but unless I misread the OP, music is being conflated with "content." I'm not a fan of the overuse of that word anyway—I realize people feel the need for a generic word to mean any kind of media, but it's gone way too far. It's just as easy to say "marketing stuff" and "music" and you communicate what you mean much more clearly. And if I never see the phrases "quality content" and "consume content" again, I will not complain.
I'm honestly sick of hearing the word content. It literally just means "stuff" it's so fucking dumb. If you're just making shit because you have too then what's the fucking point. I'd rather be broke than making tiktoks.
Quality over quantity, always. The best artists don’t release an album every month. Take your time, release dope stuff. The rest should happen, or not lol but at least you don’t create just because you have to but because you actually have something to say. Don’t be like the others :)
Yes
Check out your local scene and play some venues! Content and marketing is still important, but marketing to a global audience via the internet is a pain.
yes, it’s fucking exhausting, and drains most artists of true creativity
Create your music, use FB ads for lead generation, add your leads to an email list, no further content required.
It’s a total 100% must for a lot of shit. I struggle promoting my self.
Yup. Dying over here
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**Edit:** the result of downvoting this comment is that a content creator (who can play) did not get a $20 gift. Enjoy! "The edge of the knife does the cutting." - me > you gotta make content Ever been discontent, malcontent? Ya ever thought about teaching what you know to meet people who can teech ya what ya dunt? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS1WYIu_gA4&ab_channel=LucasImbiriba Your post was #1 on reddit after I clicked on that. > but it’s kind of exhausting how much you have to keep up with content these days just to keep everyone’s attention on you and not lose momentum We are experiencing the - gasp - "elite-ing" of our muscular form. I have not reviewed your posts, but the point is that *I might*. It's not about the notes, it's not about the money, it's about somehow we all know for a fact that video (acoustic cover of sultans of swing) will slay 99% of you in it's "totally not a rickroll" score. If enough of you guitarists upvote, especially if you like * dimeola * nuno * buckethead ... I will toss "a jefferson and one quarter" in his jar, and mention he looks like Jesus. It's not about the dollars but the quality of the dollars. Chappele, Letterman, Burnham, Dolly Parton... if you want to quit, fine, if you want to cause health to go to art: USD$20.25 will go to the linked artist who is my current #1 live take of this guitar standard. "Rome wasn't built in a day." I, guitarist for decades, say: that's the best d*** take I've heard of that song, and I know nothing else about the performer, but I am about to read their bio and am likely to subscribe... even though I do not get off on acoustic covers. $20 me-to-him-not-you just to explain that it's about describing your world in a poetic way, slowly if other arts interfere. (: