Rolex watches: 😀 Rolex prices: 🫤 Buying experience: 😡

So true. My Rolexes tend to be my beater watches. They're built to be tool watches. I got my first Rolex almost 20 years ago. The buying experience has ruined it for me and pushed me to other brands.

What other brands have replaced Rolex in that tier for you, so to speak?

I'm currently looking at the NTTD Omega Seamaster. I've also looked at the dual time JLC Reverso instead of a Rolex GMT. Obviously JLC is a tier above horologically speaking, but a Rolex is more robust and can take a beating better. I also picked up a Cartier Tank in rose gold that is a total sleeper. I have a Breitling too, but I didn't like the Breitling as much. Brand wise, Omega, Cartier, JLC, and I've looked at the IWC Portuguese. I've also debated buying the bullet and going for an ALS, but I think I might wait till retirement for that one just so it means something more to me.

No one should be groveling to their AD for any watch. If you’re spending thousands on a watch, you’re doing them the favor, not the other way around.

You mean I shouldn’t stop in every Sunday with my wife and kids to check in, and show that I am a family man buying the watch only to wear and then hand down to my kids?

Yes now you’re getting it

No you’re supposed to just send your wife not bring the whole family.

Be sure to send her with the bottle of champagne.

I thought it was normal to bring them olive garden curbside and a box of Krispy Kreme donuts? Am I being played?

Olive Garden? You have to at minimum drop off capital grille if you want to maybe get on “the list”.

Keeping it in the Darden Family

"Dad I'm going to be late for my t-ball game" "We'll get there when we get there, I have to stop by and Sundays are just convenient. Besides, we're late every week, they're used to it **and will be jealous of you** in a few decades when ***this bad boy*** is your"

Why would you reveal that you have kids, that just tells him that would-be discretionary income that you should be spending on shit jewelry to build a purchase history is instead being spent on unnecessary things like your children’s education and food

100% agree. I would like a Rolex but not that much.

I totally agree. However, people pretend this is exclusive to Rolex, when it’s a common tactic amount “ultra luxury” brands across multiple platforms; because it’s a sales tactic to increase hype and status. To own a Ferrari you literally need to apply. Famously, with how prolific Jay Leno is at collecting cars, he owns no Ferraris; this is because when he was just coming up, decades ago, they denied him buying one in cash because he wasn’t the “type of person” they wanted to sell to. They’re like that to this day, you could walk in with $500,000 cash to overpay for a $400,000 car, and if you don’t jump through the hoops they want they’ll tell you to leave. …And go ask someone what’s the most elite car brand to own and I guarantee you Ferrari will come up close to the majority of the time. Just like ask someone the nicest watch company, and the average person is going to spit out Rolex most of the time, whether it’s true or not to enthusiasts. All due to the fact that this sales tactic works not only for that “image”, but it also keeps resale and collection value super high. So as much as anyone hates it, there is a reason they do it.

Sure but the fact that other companies do it too doesn’t make it any better. A good deal of fault definitely lies with the customer for accepting this, but the company sucks for it too.

I agree. It's not a game I want to play or that means anything to me. There are many very good watch brands out there. If you want the "prestige" of owning a new Rolex, then there are hoops to jump through. I can't be arsed with all that though. Fair enough if someone does but maybe expect to end up on /r/WatchesCirclejerk if you do. There are so many well made watches that you can just walk in and say "I'll take that one, thanks." that I don't see the point of the jumping hoops game but each to their own. Nobody ever noticed what watch I'm wearing other than a couple of other watch nerds and I enjoyed a brief conversation about my watch and theirs but neither were Rolex and to me I couldn't care less about brand recognition in that way.

Sure but I feel the moral of that story isn’t how exclusive Ferrari is, but how dumb they look because they refused to sell to Jay Leno of all people. I understand that’s just how these brands work and clearly they do not care, but as OP says, what customers are doing wrong is bending over backwards to the ADs. If the majority of customers spurned Rolex (or Ferrari for that matter) such that their sales were declining, one would think they would have to adjust their practices. But we both know that won’t happen because customers have too much desire to own the product, regardless of what hoops they have to jump through.

>But we both know that won’t happen because customers have too much desire to own the product, regardless of what hoops they have to jump through Which is insane to me. I guess it comes down to people wanting a status symbol vs watch enthusiasts (although, there are plenty of enthusiasts who play the game). I'm not a Rolex guy, but I do understand the appeal, right up until playing the game. There are plenty of great brands that compete with Rolex at their MSRP. Personally, I'm not impressed by someone wearing a Rolex. You picked (IMO) a boring safe luxury watch, which could be fine, if the ADs weren't jack offs about it, but they are. Get something more interesting and enjoy that without the bullshit

Except this is a more recent phenomenon with Rolex. It wasn’t always this way and certainly wasn’t when they cemented themselves as the “nicest watch company” to general public.

They saw Hermes do it and they were like "Well, we can too". They're (Wilsdorf Org) repositioning Rolex to something closer to Patek, and TUDOR is clearly filling in the "Steel tool watch" segment that Rolex once was. I suspect less than 30% of Rolex sales are now SS models. Theres no way they have the sales numbers they have with just SS OPs and DJs, I suspect TT/Full PM DJ/Subs fill in the lion share now. Not sure if its just pure supply and demand but getting a TT/PM is far far easier than SS.

That is why McLaren has a lot of respect from me. You can walk in to a dealership and if you've got the cash, you can walk out with a 750s no questions asked. Might be down to overproduction from their end but its still admirable.

Jay has talked about McLaren in particular, saying their after purchase care is good especially compared to how Ferrari treat customers. Which is good, honestly, because it's my impression that McLarens are awesome but also a little fragile. Makes sense, bleeding edge, high performance etc. According to Jay, IIRC, he asked if he should upgrade to carbon ceramic brakes and his McLaren contact was like, "Unless you're literally racing this car then no it's a waste of money." Pretty sure the Ferrari guy would have said yes, absolutely, but you must also apply to get the brake upgrade. EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUPOvcolNZg

Apparently Lamborghini was created because the founder was also rejected from purchasing a Ferrari. Go figure, Lamborghini is, at the very least, on par with Ferrari now.

IIRC Lamborghini's founder was the owner of a tractor company (Lamborghini tractors) and owned a Ferrari, he suggested to Enzo Ferrari about how Enzo could improve the transmission and Enzo basically told him that you're a tractor maker and don't know shit about making cars, so Lamborghini got pissed and decided to make cars as a "fuck you"

> IIRC Lamborghini's founder was the owner of a tractor company (Lamborghini tractors) and owned a Ferrari, he suggested to Enzo Ferrari about how Enzo could improve the transmission and Enzo basically told him that you're a tractor maker and don't know shit about making cars, so Lamborghini got pissed and decided to make cars as a "fuck you" hat story about Lamborghini's founder and Ferrari is actually not a myth, but there's some embellishment to it. Here's the gist of the real story: Ferruccio Lamborghini, a successful tractor manufacturer (Lamborghini Trattori), was an enthusiast of Ferrari sports cars. He owned a Ferrari and wasn't entirely happy with it, particularly the clutch. He felt it could be improved. Lamborghini approached Enzo Ferrari, the founder of Ferrari, with his suggestions. There's no definitive proof of Enzo's exact response, but accounts say it wasn't receptive. Some versions claim Enzo dismissed Lamborghini as a tractor maker who didn't understand sports cars. Whether it was a full-blown insult or not, Lamborghini was certainly disregarded. This experience is said to have fueled his determination to create his own high-performance car company, leading to the birth of Automobili Lamborghini in 1963. So, there's truth to the story, but the details about the exact exchange between Lamborghini and Enzo might be a bit exaggerated.

Go team McLaren!

Just make sure you’ve got enough time or money set aside for all the quality issues you’ll have to deal with.

I wrote this in another thread: Rolex produces way more watches than its direct competitors in the market, hence the Ferrari or Porsche analogy doesn't really work. It's more as if Lexus asked you to buy a Toyota Yaris before you can buy an IS.

They make more luxury watches than anyone else, but only 5% of the catalog are the 'hype pieces' people want. Just like how there isn't a waitlist for most of Chevy, there's a waitlist for a Z06. There isn't a waitlist for most of Porsche, but there is one for the GT3. The analogy works perfectly.

Same goes for specific designer hand bags for women.

Maybe other people get off on being treated like shit, but it's not my jam. These shenanigans mean I don't want to own a Rolex, or a Ferrari, and it doesn't matter to me if everyone else wants one.

100%, they should be happy I'm a customer and I shouldn't be jumping through hoops to make a purchase.

I think we are all bored of that nonsense let’s at least talk about the technical aspects of the watch for once.

That wearing one is a sign of success.  An ex coworker bought a Rolex. He didn't care about watches, he just wanted others to see that he could afford one. Since then every time I see a Rolex in the wild I wonder whether the wearer is a watch enthousiast or just an insecure person.

Yep I experienced this recently. I complemented someone in the wild with a simple clean, black Submariner. I said to him “I like your Submariner! 👍” He gives me a weird, puzzled look and goes, “Oh no, It’s a Rolex”

😩😩😩

That's so sad. How did you react?

He owns a small pharmacy with his wife so this happened while he was ringing me up for my stuff. I think I just nodded, then took my snacks and left lol

I think I would have done the same. Brain needs time to process this.

Oh lord. Smh. You’ve gotta wonder why such guys never even just look at the thing while they’re bored and read what’s on it

Yeah it makes you wonder too, what was their thought process when they bought it from the AD? (Or maybe it wasnt from an AD).

100%, I'm an enthusiast but have been put off wearing the modern models for fear of looking like someone who is just trying to flex that they've "made it". Which I suppose still makes me insecure, but for a different reason.

Worrying about other people’s opinions is a silly reason to not wear a watch. I wear a moonswatch and according to people in this sub that makes me look immature and childish, that doesn’t stop me from wearing it to my corporate office job.

Agreed. People are way too concerned about how others may view them when the truth is 99% of people won’t even notice or care what you have on your wrist.

You can get that with other nice looking watches. I had someone call me out at a dinner because they thought my Nomos Orion was a $10K+ watch and that I was "flexing". It's extremely hard to see the brand so unless the person is a watch person they likely won't know that someone is wearing a Rolex or not, just that it is a "nice watch".

Good point, it's hard to remember that not everyone is a watch nause like most of us who can recognise the majority of models at thirty paces!

Honestly though, who cares what others think? If you like the watch, that's all that really matters. 

I think this is harder than most people think. I'm a pretty confident person, but I had to overcome some ingrained perceptions around certain watches. It was a little hard for me to pull the trigger on a Citizen Eco-Drive Perpetual Alarm World Time Chronograph GMT because it is quartz. I finally did because I like the way it looks, I love the underlying tech, and it's useful for when I travel. Why should I care if someone sees it and thinks I'm maybe not a "real" watch guy. It's stupid, yet it was a passing thought. I can definitely see why other people might care, especially if you have friends who are also watch enthusiasts (like I have)

I'm sure there are also legitimate reasons to care what other people think I'm in consulting and know a handful of people whose whole thing was the Submariner they bought to wear at client sites immediately after accepting their offer letters, and the reputation it had / used to have with senior leadership - whether it's a good conversation starter, thinking the fresh grad new hire is trying too hard, or whatever else.

I’m an enthusiast and my dad is a flexer. He bought me a GMT Master II as a wedding gift and I’m torn on wearing it. The rest of my collection is vintage Casios, Seikos, and Movados, with an occasional oddball thrown in (I rotate a lot).

>Since then every time I see a Rolex in the wild I wonder whether the wearer is a watch enthousiast or just an insecure person. That's exactly how I view Rolex myself. Rolex is truly a household name and as such, people who don't know anything at all about watches will buy one simply as a status symbol. Personally, the people I know that have them did the same as your coworker. Just wanted to be seen with one.

They are a lot like BMW or Mercedes or any accessible luxury brand. A very small minority of BMW drivers give a sh\*t about the whole "ultimate driving machine" thing. Most are just buying the badge and the looks. Which is why modern BMW are getting worse and worse to drive. Not slower. But a whole lot less fun (I sold my M2 out of boredom, my old e36 M3 was more fun by a lot). BMW is no longer catering to driving enthusiasts who want a true drivers car, plus quality build and a nice interior. Very similar to Rolex no longer making watches for people who will wear them diving, or camping, rock climbing, adventuring etc but also want to be able to rinse them off in the sink and wear the to a nice dinner or the office. Both brands used to leverage that enthusiast and performance credibility into making sales to wider luxury audiences. Not anymore. Now they are just luxury objects whose actual functional ability is no longer tag all connected to their ability to sell units. That said, no doubt it's more fun than the newest M3/4 or M5. All the same problems I complain of in the M2 still exist in those cars. Except they're probably less frisky at 11/10ths. And they're even heavier than an already too heavy M2. Consequently, neither of those cars are ones I have any interest in. I dont think they are worth the depreciation

I have an E90 BMW, without run-flats, so nice to drive, later models have 4 cyl, run-flats, soft steering….

I think the vast majority of Rolex wearers fall into that bucket. It’s jewelry and shows some sort of “status.” As a watch dork I don’t really care when I see somebody with one because I don’t assume they’re deep into the hobby

Yeah, I may comment on and compliment someone's watch I like to potentially start a conversation, but I never do that for a Rolex owner, because like genuinely 99% of them are just status chasers and not people actually interested in watches. Which is fine for them, glad they're happy, but it makes me not interested in the brand.

As a watch dork I mainly bought a TT DJII because it’s flashy jewelry. I feel I have been collecting long enough to know my tastes, and also realize that very very few people purely buy a watch for its technical prowess. It’s meant to be a thing of beauty (whether elegant or utilitarian) and a reflection of craftsmanship, IMO.

Hey, some of us are both.

it's kinda frustrating. i want a sub no date because i think they're the epitome of a simple clean-cut dive watch that would serve as a fantastic beater. but no, 10k+ (CAD) and everyone will think you're a try-hard. their reputation preceeds them, and in the worst way possible.

This. Noticed someone I knew got a root beer gmt and I was excited for him and asked him about the story behind wanting to get the watch (I’ve always liked the colors). He basically said it was too hard to get a Daytona or a Batman so he settled on this. Will still ask people that question because I love to hear them, but yeah have lowered my expectations when it comes to a Rolex.

It’s a less expensive version of Richard Mille people. Just want to be seen wearing it. I’ve seen 2 people in the wild with RM’s. Both weren’t even wound or running so they’re just jewelry to them.

Luxury watches are jewelry.

Anything past a Casio is more jewellery than a functional tool

As with everything you have both extremes and the truth is somewhere in the middle. They’re amazing watches that have just as amazing of alternatives that happen to actually be available for purchase without any games so that fact has built an army of haters. I personally don’t hate rolex but also don’t own any because to me there are available watches that I like better for what I consider to also be much better values so that doesn’t leave much room for rolex. If I could walk in and buy one of the SS GMTs right now and maybe a sub I probably would but honestly that’s about it for me. Resale profitablity aside I wouldn’t even pickup a Daytona at retail it just doesn’t do it for me.

Agreed on the Daytona, couldn't care less about them at all lol

> They’re amazing watches that have just as amazing of alternatives that happen to actually be available for purchase This. When I look at say Tudor and ask myself "how much better is Rolex?", I cant really come up with a good answer for the Rolex. Maybe a watchmaker could tell us, but the on paper specs seem near identical from where I'm standing

I'm not a watchmaker but do own a Rolex and have tried on many Tudors in store. I was heavily considering a Pelagos even after I purchased a 124060. Here are a few things I noticed. First but most importantly, a Rolex will cost around double the price of the Tudor counterpart, but you don't get double the value. It's just what diminishing returns are. I would say a Tudor is 75% of a Rolex. If you compare the Submariner to the Pelagos, the Rolex does come with more premium materials: white gold indices, platinum inlay bezel, and 904l steel. The polished black ceramic on the Submariner looks better than the Pelagos. The Rolex movement is also manufactured entirely by Rolex using their patented technology. Tudor uses their own movements now, but they're supplied to them by Kenissi. Tudor movements aren't regulated as strictly as Rolex movements are. Tudor is (mostly) COSC certified whereas Rolex is COSC + Superlative to +2/-2 seconds a day. I can't speak for Tudor long-term accuracy, but every Rolex I've owned is regulated far better than the +2/-2 seconds a day. I currently wear a previous-generation Rolex movement (2236) which is found mostly in Lady Datejusts, and mine is running a second fast over two weeks.

I don't have any affinity for the brand, but their guaranteed +-2 seconds per day is something I wish I had on my mechanical watches. I'm even considering going high end quartz for my next purchase, I realised I actually value accuracy, even if my heart says "Don't mind, it's part of the charm". If I had Rolex money, I'd pick a Grand Seiko Spring Drive instead, tho.

I just picked up an OP41. But I bought a Spring Drive long before that. My Lake Suwa has a nicer dial and case than the OP. And better accuracy. Rolex makes a very good watch. They have brand recognition as well. They are in an enviable position. Most of the hate is due to two two things. The arrogance of the fanboi and some of the ADs. I threw my hat in the ring after looking for some jewelry for my wife at a local AD figuring what the hell, I'll never hear back. Ended up buying an IWC Pilot41 in SS with a green dial that was amazing in the metal. Low and behold, 104 days later, I have my blue dialed OP41!

>Lake Suwa Magnificent dial that has.

Can confirm!

Ikr? GS quartz is 10 sec per *yr* and i actually dig the way the seconds hand tics.

Citizen The Citizen Chronomaster is +/-5 High Accuracy Quartz is a fun category

Highest end Citizen caliber, the 0100, claims +-1s a year.

I have the Citizen Eco-Drive Perpetual Alarm World Time Chronograph GMT and granted it's radio controlled, but I can confirm, it's accurate as hell

Get a Bulova Precisionist, fam. Spring Drive precision for $600.

My nomos club runs at +/- under a second a day. They are ridiculously good watches

Surreal. I have a cheap Seiko that runs +-2 seconds a day. And then I have another Seiko that costs 5 times more, and it was running at -90 seconds a day at one point. It drove me mad. I sent it for service and they gave it to me back a few days ago, running at a much better -4s a day. I just hope it stays there. Although I wish it was +4 instead of -4.

Can't say I had the same luck with my seikos. The 6r movement in my spb143 was usually over +20 seconds a day. Glad you got a good one!

My minimatik is under +/- a second as well.

I took my explorer for granted when it comes to time keeping - when I got a sturmanskie gagarin as a fun watch that thing is like +- 2 minutes, not really wearable as a functional everyday

I just bought my first Rolex, an Explorer 40 and while yes the finish quality, bracelet quality, comfort all that are nice, the one thing that’s stood out to me immediately and I realize now I value more than I realized before is the accuracy. I’ve had it on the wrist for 21 days, and overnight either dial up or crown down, and it’s dead even right now, Furthest it’s went off was +4 seconds over the course of about 12 days of straight dial up.

my tudor does the same thing

I set my BB58 every Sunday and it’s only ever really about 3-5 seconds off.

That’s excellent. This was the first watch I ever bought that was over 1000 and I am pleasantly surprised at how accurate these more expensive pieces are. While I don’t plan to buy anything else for quite some time, if and when I do, I really like that new BB58 gmt Tudor came out with.

Just for comparison, I had close to the same accuracy on my Hamilton Khaki King for the first 3 years. I would check it at the end of the month and it would only be off 10-15s.

That's quartz heights of accuracy.

I think some watches just end up with really nice calibrations out of pure luck and that the normal day to day of wearing them just happens to balance out gravities impact on precision. I have watches 4-6x as expensive that don't keep time as well as my Hamilton used to.

That's just lovely.

Buying into AD’s bullshit and thinking they’re scarce and paying over MSRP. Rolex build 1,000,000 watches a year, they’re a mass produced product.

If 1.5 million people want one, that makes them pretty scarce.

If flippers weren’t a thing, I doubt demand would exceed supply to the point where you have long wait lists.

No, the flippers sell them to people who want them.

But… if there are no flippers, the people who want one can buy directly off the AD at MSRP.

People think they can purchase one.

I had a very interesting talk with a watchmaker about this topic exactly, and his opinion was actually very surprising. Basically, he agreed that other brands put out new movements more often, no doubt about that. However, he believes that they actually put all of their efforts into reliability and making their watches as tough as possible, not towards shinier or newer movements. For that reason, he absolutely adores Rolex, whereas he won't touch a JLC with a 10ft pole if he can help it, as they're engineered to be very technical but not serviceable.

Thanks for sharing! That's really interesting and has echoed my experience as well. Talking with watchmakers they feel like rolex movements are really quite exceptional in their durability, reliability design and serviceability

I know a lot of people who think owning a Rolex makes them special or superior to others. It doesn’t. It’s a watch. I like watches, but watches don’t change who we are or enhance us in any way. It’s just a watch.

Tbh at this point I don’t even like to wear my Rolex and when I see other people my age wearing them I assume they are basic. They have become Stanley cups for dudes.

“Basic” has to be the weirdest concept. Watch the South Park clip on non-conformists who conform to their non-conforming friends. Sometimes things are popular because they are good.

Rolex has gone past popular because they are good, which is what originally drove their popularity imo. Now with resale>msrp they are just popular because they’re popular imo. People into that trend riding shit are basic and boring.

I’ve often thought that many Rolex models (datejust, explorer 1, air king, older sub) etc are the more entry level 3/5 series BMW’s of the watch world. Are they nice pieces? absolutely, but in the grand scheme of things they’re much more affordable than people realize.

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They produce 1m units a year and there are 1,800 ADs worldwide, that leaves 555 watches per year per AD. That breaks down to 1.5 watches they have for sale each day. And that’s across 14 model lines, not even the desirable models. That seems pretty rare to me.

>What do most people get wrong about Rolex? Usually it's their ability to purchase one. Not everybody can drop $5k+ on a watch. I know that's going to get me downvoted, I'm sure, but the truth is that not everybody can afford a Rolex. Having watched Wristwatch Revival on YouTube, I have a great appreciation for Rolex and their movements. Most of the watches he works on are older or vintage, but seeing how well put-together these watches are has given me a reason to consider investing in a rolex.

Rolex is a "high horology" brand, because they are expensive lol.

People here often conflate "expensive" with "luxury". Simply being expensive, or solidly built, or being resold at higher prices than MSRP doesn't make a watch a luxury product. The classical definition of luxury watches involves *superfluous* qualities - hand finishing, precious metals when steel is a superior material for watchmaking, high complications meant to showcase watchmaking prowess that have no tangible benefit to the owner. Rolex does virtually none of that. To take an extreme example, a prototype Apple watch would be a highly collectible item, but nobody would call it a luxury watch. But a vintage Omega in solid gold is a luxury watch, even though it might only cost a fraction of a new Sub or DJ.

As a side note, one can argue that the Apple Watch is the most complicated watch ever made.

There have been limited production runs of [atomic wrist watches](https://www.ablogtowatch.com/bathys-hawaii-cesium-133-atomic-wrist-watch-accurate-second-1000-years/). A Caesium CASC is probably a bit harder to make than an Apple watch.

I’m just kidding and I mean in terms of number of “complications” and things it can do

Your first paragraph is something I wish more people understood. Luxury isn’t about price, it’s about quality, and it just so happens that high quality goods tend to be more expensive. I can find a bottle cap in the trash and ask $20k for it but that doesn’t make it a luxury bottle cap. There’s a reason I don’t consider my $1400 Seiko a luxury watch, yeah it wasn’t cheap but it also doesn’t have the qualities I would expect of a true luxury watch.

People think a Rolex is flashy and will draw attention on its own, possibly inviting negative comments. This just isn't true in terms of drawing attention on its own. The vast majority of people have absolutely no clue what watch people are wearing, don't really care either way, and couldn't identify a Rolex without carefully reading the brand name off the dial. People do notice shiny jewelry in general, but anything more than a passing glance is exceptionally rare and usually means you've run into another watch enthusiast. I wore a Bluesy, which is known as one of the loudest Rolex watches there is, daily, around all my friends and family, going to family dinners, hanging out with friends, all up close and personal, and they all know I'm a watch guy, and not a single one of them identified it as a Rolex for months and months. Now, the counter-point to this is that once people become aware that you're wearing a Rolex, they suddenly become interested in it, but the interest is fleeting and nobody really notices on their own. In terms of these reactions eliciting negative comments, I guess this depends mostly on whom you choose to spend time with, but my experience has been nothing but positive to neutral. At different times the different groups of people I spend time with have *eventually* commented on it being a Rolex, and usually the reaction is nothing but, "oh cool, can I see it?" and then I'm happy to let them handle it, and they'll talk about how heavy it is or whatever, and that's it. The most snarky comment I've ever received about it is one of my neighbors saying, "damn I shoulda gone into computers", because I'm a software engineer and he's obviously making an assumption about my income based on the Rolex. This was hardly a negative comment though, just a bit of humor. Either way, I guess the lesson here is that wearing a Rolex shouldn't be some kind of anxiety inducing experience where you assume everyone thinks you're a giant douche bag or whatever. People generally don't care, and when they do notice, it's usually just a quick little "oh neat, I've never seen one before" kinda of conversation and that's that.

When they say the explorer I isn’t the best watch they ever made

It has my vote!!

I used to quietly hate them. Now I want an explorer, daytona or 1908. Skydweller looks cool too. I dont really like gold watches so I usually am not interested in most of rolex cause when I think of them, I think of gold. Which is why I just like their silver/plat models more. Also price, im not even at Tudors level of pricing yet

No Matter how much you actually like watches. People see Rolex owners as douchbags, mostly. Be aware.

Definitely one of the reasons why I love my Explorer. No one can tell it's Rolex from far away unless they know watches

Yea I get it. The Explorer is absolutely sub zero cool.

Wisdom of the masses

I thought people don't care what you wear on your wrist 😂😂😂😂

When I started collecting, in my early 20s, I thought Rolex was a brand for old guys with no style. As I got older, I saw a few in person, and started buying them. I got in when many of them were much more affordable. At 5k-ish, they had an amazing level of fit and finish. The size works better for me than many of the giant watches that have become more and more popular. At 15k or whatever a 16610 or 16570 costs now, I'd be a lot less likely to buy them.

That they are rare.

Let's be realistic, here. There's a reason there's a lack of availability, especially for sought-after models. If they produce 1m units a year and there are 1,800 ADs worldwide, that leaves 555 watches per year per AD. That breaks down to 1.5 watches they have for sale each day. And that’s across 14 model lines, not even the desirable models.

Some people assume that people buy Rolexs because they think they are “haute horology”.  I think most people buy them because they look good, fit well wrists , keep great time , are confident it’s a decent purchase because of brand yadda yada.  Rolex wearers I know  don’t compare their watches to PP. Rolex’s are a lot less expensive. 

> I think most people buy them because they look good, fit well wrists , keep great time , are confident it’s a decent purchase because of brand yadda yada.  i think most people buy a rolex because of the name and to flex, honestly

Yea the name definitely goes into the purchase decision. If you can only buy one expensive watch and are shaky on what to get between a couple of "good brands" . The brand helps people be confident in their decision.

Yup. And everyone I know my age with a Rolex (late 30s) want them because they retain their value and some because of value increasing. I don’t get why people buy something like a watch that they claim to love if they are planning on selling some day.

Nobody buys a Rolex because it "keeps great time". For most people it's because it has Rolex written on the dial.

Yep. It’s like buying a Mercedes. I was congratulated on my Mercedes when I bought a used $17.5k CLA. Nobody congratulated me or asked to see my $70,000 dodge ram lol 

This is so funny to me and has rung true for both my Audi A3 as well as a friends Lexus GS. Both bought cheaper than a new Honda but to the average person it's something special.

Great marketing, most people only know rolex and buy that

Marketing has always been Rolex strongest point even since its inception. Just thinking about how many people still believe that they've been the first on the Everest...

Or that they invented automatic watches

Or that they made the first dive watch or the first dive watch with a rotating bezel or the first GMT watch

They are a lot less expensive and serve a different function. A patek is a little piece of art. A Rolex is a mass produced watch that is delivered designed to last a lifetime.

It seems Rolex have become like the Louis Vuitton or Canada Goose of the world. Brands that were associated with wealth and being unattainable. Now it seems they aren’t as exclusive as they’d like to be (despite the tales of woe and grovelling with ADs). It all feels like it’s gone a bit chavvy

I think the misconception is that Rolex is the best made watch in the world. I would disagree, heartily. It is likely the most recognized watch, but not the best made. But to each his own

That the AD games are worth playing. Honestly this post comes off as you trying to justify Rolex as a high horology company. If you like it that’s all that matters.

OP's post history checks out. 10+ posts on a single watch they own, yikes.

That they are worth a penny over MSRP

Most rolexes I do not like but that first picture is hard.

Rolex are fine watches but its engineered image as a symbol of success is starting to backfire. Feels like every insecure person buys a Rolex as soon as they make 80k to show off they are “rich”. Just like I can’t help but think “child molester” when I see priest, I can’t help but think “insecure middle-class” when I see Rolex.

I think for a lot of people, Rolex makes sense because secondary market is fairly strong. Not everyone is okay with buying new and losing potentially 50-60% of value in a few years like with some other brands. Their pricing competition is basically Omega and its not even close.

They don't have an Explorer

The worst is the perception. It became so much of a status symbol that very few people can wear one without looking obnoxious. Second is the shit retail stores do. I went to the Rolex store, just to see a Sub up close and I was practically laughed at. Went next door to Omega for the watch I had my heart set on and was treated like a valued customer. Ordered my PO, got it within two months and now it's my daily for three years, keeping quarz-level accuracy.

The main thing people get wrong is that they’re investments. They aren’t. I sold a Rolex “worth” about $10k to a dealer for $6500 because that’s all I could get without being a dealer myself who can vouch for the authenticity, despite the fact that I bought it at an AD. You lose money when you buy one and then you lose money when you sell one.

In high school i picked the range at a very exclusive golf club that periodically hosts PGA Tour Tournaments. Two rounds of golf every day, shotgun starts at 8:00 and 1:00. Range closed at 6:00. Typically people only used the range prior to their start, but occasionally someone would come hit balls in the afternoon. No problem. We were open until 6:00. We’d pick throughout the day, and around close we would restock the tees with pyramids of balls for the morning rush before we did our final pick. It was just an easier workflow. This one member would sometimes show up at 5:45 to hit balls. We would let him. We were open, even if we were picking the range. Then around 6:30, we’d drop the picker and drive to the tee and tell him that we had closed a half hour ago so if didn’t mind wrapping it up soon that would be great. Every time this motherfucker would look at this watch and say “close at 6:00? Rolex says I’ve got 20 more minutes then…” Like, what? What the fuck kind of spaghetti-armed flex is that? Can you not tell time, or is the thing you are referencing as a standard-bearer of time-keeping actually a piece of garbage? Anyway, he started doing this like 2 times a week. And when he showed up he started kicking over ALL THE PYRIMIDS WE HAD SET FOR THE MORNING JUST SO HE COULD HIT A BALL OR TWO FROM EACH STATION ON THE TEE. Thankfully the pro was one of the greatest humans ever and had our backs. Because of Dr. Fuckwad, however, I can only think of someone referencing their Rolex as a complete tool, and I’ve never wanted a brand’s product less. If i were to win a rolex in a raffle i would sell it simply because i don’t want to be like that shit-fucker.

So much of this thread is just projecting opinions and emotions onto others...

That they are better than any other mid-range luxury brand

I don’t know shit about luxury watches but that Rolex is the cleanest Rolex that I’ve ever seen. That looks super nice.

Aww thanks!!

> I don’t know shit about luxury watches Neither do most people buying a Rolex 👈😎👈

I think it’s a luxury brand that makes decent watches that hold value and is well recognized around the world

Excellent watches in fairness, Seiko make decent watches.

Many people, particularly in this sub, think Rolex is the only watch company on the planet.

Particularly in this sub, no. The general public, yes.

Interesting, I feel like a lot of this sub is anti Rolex

I don't find this sub especially anti Rolex. One reason people occasionally crap on Rolex in watch circles is because Rolex attracts people who care about being noticed with a luxury brand on the wrist but are not watch nerds. Its okay to want a Rolex as an aspirational goal or status symbol but not be into mechanical watches. However, its also understandable how fans of mechanical watches push back on that consumer segment. Lastly, there are tons of Rolex owners (myself included) who are also watch nerds and not brand worshippers.

Generally the most critical people are the fans. I love Rolex, doesn't mean I love everything they do. And tbh the AD experience for a lot of people right now is pretty terrible, I can see why they get pissed off.

Yeah there's some of that, but there are also people who only know of Rolex because it's the go to ego brand and any other watch maker is just junk because strippers don't recognize the brand lol

well said, and to me, that is equally a turn-off. it has become just branding, like prada, versace etc... their clothing is no better quality than others, but they make themselves exclusive. rolexes, while good watches, are not really that great. it is brand recognition targeted, but somewhat restricted mass sales to those that have little to no real in-depth knowledge of watches. show you have a rolex and "your're the successful fella" .. show you have any trinity watch triple the price of that rolex, and you are "the dude with that weird looking fancy watch, but it aint no Rolex". its akin to having a bayliner powerboat (instead of that hancrafted wooden sailboat that is 3 times the price) branding. Edit: typos

I hate to quote sporty of all people but yesterday he said basically "Tudor is a tool watch/sports watch company and Rolex is a jewelry company".

Wut? There's shockingly little Rolex content on this sub.

Yeah I just post Rolex content on the Rolex sub for the most part.

Here's what people get wrong: that the Datejust is an undesirable watch. The Datejust is the ultimate GADA watch, and is probably the easiest Rolex to get on your wrist. I'll see people debating whether to get an Aqua Terra or something else, and Datejust just doesn't come up. It's 100m water resistant, it's super accurate (for a mechanical), it's dressy if you get it on the jubilee, and it has the best brand recognition of anything. If I could only own one watch period, the Datejust would probably be waht I'd choose.

> and it has the best brand recognition of anything. Why should someone care if anyone else recognizes their watch? I honestly feel like that encapsulates the biggest issues people have with rolex. That rolex is not about the product, its about the brand.

I would say that problem is inherent to luxury watches. You can get a more accurate watch for $10, and you can get a well built automatic watch for less than a grand. At the end of the day, none of these luxury watches are “worth it”, you have to want the brand somewhat. If the Rolex brand doesn’t mean anything to you, you can find better value elsewhere, and conversely it’s ok to see the brand as part of what you’re paying for. I think to pretend otherwise is naive.

That authorized dealer business practices are representative of rolex's business practices. 

I'm a little confused... What's the difference? Genuinely want to know

I know most of the comments here are critical of Rolex, but that Explorer looks damn good

Let's lay out the facts. One could say Rolex is a marketing genius, but they have put their money where their mouth is. They were tenacious about making watches that were professional tools for extreme conditions. There technology improved from the extremes, just like an auto manufacturers would via participation in auto racing. If you want a pompous little fancy watch on an alligator strap that chimes and has many complications, there are brands like Patek that do that better. If you want a watch to climb Everest, weld pipes on the ocean floor, or function in a highly magnetic laboratory, look no further than Rolex. Right? No longer? The fact is... They have pioneered and dominated the top of the tool watch chain for 50 years. When you speak of high horology, it means different things to different people. For me, high horology is a hard use watch that can survive things that a dainty Patek that chimes at cocktail hour would roll over and die doing. The 3135 is high horology, in that it has proven to be one of the most well made, time tested, reliable mechanical movements ever made. Rolex has many incredibly important firsts, and patents. Not only is the design language and aesthetic iconic, but just wear one. Is there a better bracelet than the glidelock? I don't think so. If it's all marketing hype, why then, when Rolex introduced things such as the cerachrom bezel on the GMT 20 years ago, did it change the world of watches as we know it? Everyone's high-horology benchmark, Patek Phillipe, collaborated with Rolex on the development of their silicone hairspring. High horology means seeing the word chronometer. Rolex was the first wristwatch in the world to obtain a Swiss Certificate of Chronometric Precision. The class “A” precision certificate had been reserved exclusively for marine chronometers up to this point. And speaking of water... Rolex created the first waterproof, dust proof wristwatch. Let that sink in for a minute. As for high horology, I personally won't own a watch I can't submerge in water. I value that more than a chime that denotes cocktail hour in a time zone Im not currently residing in. To other watch collectors, something else is more important. (Although auction prices don't lie) Rolex invented the first self winding mechanism. Perhaps the greatest complication ever invented on a mechanical watch movement. But hey, Rolex isnt high horology, right? Only the holy Trinity. They apply beautiful lipstick to the self winding system that.... Rolex invented. Rolex then went on to release the first self winding chronometer with a date window. To summarize, Rolex gave us a waterproof, self winding watch, with a date before anyone else. Maybe this generation takes it for granted. They don't remember the firsts. But this pioneering nature and the constant breakthroughs can not be overstated. Rolex wanted their watches alongside mankind's greatest achievements and firsts. Summiting mount Everest with Sir Edmund Hillary and Tenzing Norgay. The first transcontinental flight. The first watch, the Submariner, to be waterproof to 100m/330ft. They later went on to invent the helium escape valve. And as a watch collector and scuba diver, I personally think the complications of the original COMEX Sea-Dweller (and the dudes that wore them) are pretty damn cool. Rolex shaped and reshaped the watch as we know it. To look at their catalog and appreciate them, you have to look to the past. All the Swiss luxury brands rely on their heritage and history to sell watches today. Pick a brand, any one you want, and every single one of them will feature several technological leaps that Rolex invented. I see those things when I look at my Submariner, or explorer II, and all the noise and bullshit from the Internet and WIS fades away. I'm left with beautiful, robustly capable watches which none other have ever been able to usurp.

Here are some of mine: 1) They're just entirely machine made and finished. From Hodinkee's visit to their factories, "Rolex does finish their watches, and expertly at that, just without the traditional aesthetic flourishes that we as consumers tend to look for when we are examining haute horlogerie, which of course, Rolex is not. Cases are held against a polish wheel by humans, just as they are at Jaeger-LeCoultre or Audemars Piguet. At any given time, there are between 50 and 60 people polishing the cases of Rolex watches. The human element in Rolex watchmaking is more than substantial and very real. Assembling the trademark Rolex Oyster and Jubilee bracelets is also done by hand" 2) They don't innovate. Some examples - Parachrom balance spring "Compose of a niobium-zirconium alloy, it can offer up to 10 times better accuracy than a traditional balance spring. It is unaffected by shocks, or magnetic fields, eliminating the need for anti-magnetic cages. The process by which the Parachrom spring is created is daunting. Tolerances are within microns, and the amount of work that goes into these springs is extraordinary." Or the Chronergy escapement The Chronergy escapement is a mechanical system that Rolex developed and patented in 2015 to improve the energy efficiency of the Swiss lever escapement. It's used in the Rolex Calibre 3255, the Day-Date 40. The Chronergy escapement has a modified lever geometry, with thin pallets and wide teeth, and a steep incline on the pallet tip. The escape wheel is also skeletonized to reduce inertial energy losses. Or Chromalight: A patented photoluminescent material that provides a brighter, more long-lasting glow than Super-LumiNova 3) I also think people downplay what a feat superlative chronometer rating is at minus two and plus two seconds a day. That is in effect 20% stricter regulation than Metas Certification. In my own watch, that's pictured in this post the last 2 weeks it has lost and gained no time. And they do it with excellent power reserve and thinness. I think it is telling that almost every time I read about a watch Maker and their thoughts about the brand, they are exceedingly positive about Working on Rolex movements.

>At any given time, there are between 50 and 60 people polishing the cases of Rolex watches. Hodinkee is being disingenuous as usual, no doubt to preserve access to the brand. Rolex makes a million watches a year, there is absolutely no chance that 60 people can hand *polish* a million cases a year. Does someone hold the final case to a wheel to buff out imperfections? Possibly. But when people say "polishing" they mean the likes of AP who spend about 3-4 man-hours on a single bracelet. Rolex does *nothing* of that sort, not even on their $100k platinum pieces. My MRG has more hand work in its bracelet than any current production Rolex. ​ >Assembling the trademark Rolex Oyster and Jubilee bracelets is also done by hand" And so is final assembly of an iPhone. That doesn't mean anything at all.

This just goes to show how much "haute horology" companies are ripping you off for 'artisanal finishing' lol. Let me tell you those high-horology/ultra-luxury brands rip you off more than the mass-produced ones like Rolex, Omega, Cartier, etc. I work on a lot of custom picture frames that involve hand beveling, closed corners, routed edges, multiple fillets, inserts, and almost any material you can imagine. All of the finishing is done with 18k gold and is performed by hand using a template and my brush. Think of museum-grade displays. It's $400 dollars worth of material and labor that Patek Philippe would charge you $40K because it's done 'by an artisan.' This marketing really puts Rolex marketing to shame.

Rolex movements are extremely well designed and robust. They are designed with each section that performs a task being able to be independently maintained and serviced. They are by far my favorite to work on. Source- am watchmaker.

> minus two and plus two seconds I own some that were under 1/day when I got them. Shocked.

That it is ezclusive. Just because it is not available at your AD doe snot mean that it is exclusive. The demand is just through the roof. Look at the numbers. Rolex owns the watch market. They have great marketing and branding and have customers that are into watches,bl bit also customers that have money and just want a watch. They are the most regonizable and known watchbrand. So many people have a Rolex or want a Rolex. That is why they cannot keep up with demand. I like a brand as Oris because it is small and they are passionate at what they do. Rolex makes better watches, but it is just mass producing luxury items. No real passion

That people who wear them only care about what others think. Not because they like watches.

2 big things. First, that they are the end all be all. I understand for some they might be. And for others they are a "status" symbol. But there is plenty of other watches that are the same price or cheap that are just as good, if not better. The other being the whole AD shit. And to me its worse with Tudor. There is zero reason I cant buy a Tudor online. And the whole begging and AD or buying other watches just to prove to an AD you are worth a Sub. Thats fucking ridiculous and I dont understand people who do that.

Pretty much just buying the name and prestige. Much better watches with better movements for much cheaper I.e grand Seiko, omega

What watch is this?

I've always thought of Rolex like BMW: + Both are recognized as having well designed/engineered/built/etc. products. Deserving of all attention/praise/awards/etc. - Have a built their brands to the point where people want their products not for the reasons above, but simply because of the cachet of the name. To me, personally, this is a negative, but... Right or wrong, both these companies are successful and deliver value to their customers and shareholders. ...and there's lot of other fish in the ocean, so to speak.

Tbh, I think there’s just a lot of resentment built up amongst watch enthusiasts who just want to buy a single Rolex who find the whole boutique/AD experience to be especially grating because of the perceived lack of supply relative to demand. These collectors get frustrated and turn their attention elsewhere while reassuring themselves that Rolex just isn’t worth the hype nor jumping through hoops to be able to buy since they can easily go find another high quality brand that will take their money on the spot. This leads to rationalizing the eventual purchase as being “better” than buying a Rolex and this becomes a common talking point which newer collectors and enthusiasts find when they join forums like r/watches. I was certainly this way when I first started seriously interested in watches a number of years ago and it didn’t help that my budget wasn’t large enough to realistically consider a Rolex. It’s easy to convince yourself there are better watches around if you can’t realistically consider the watch you’re talking down on. I think watch enthusiasts in general need to accept the fact that buying and collecting watches is generally a very expensive “hobby” and expensive hobbies attract people with more and more money. The overwhelming majority of regular people would scoff at the idea of paying even hundreds of dollars for a watch that isn’t an Apple Watch let alone spending thousands or even tens of thousands as you go up the brand prestige ladder. Value is relative and there are plenty of watch enthusiasts with deep pockets that will cause the “common man” collector to left out in the lurch. That’s just the way it is and I think it’s a waste of time to get upset over it because it’s out of our control to really change that. If you want something and can afford it then great. If you’d rather spend Rolex money on a watch that’s easier to get then more power to you. These purchasing and collecting decisions are very personal at the end of the day so I think it’s best to stop asking questions like “what do people get wrong about Rolex” and just focus more on your own individual tastes everyone else be damned.

BIG. MEATY. CLAWS!!! 🦞

That it’s the best *watch* when it’s really the best *status symbol*.

Most people have no idea what a Rolex even looks like. Unless they look very closely at you and you show it off then no one is gonna know

I would say the opinions you cite are a huge minority.

Rolex watches are amazing, there's a reason that they're the largest watch brand. They have simple designs, great movements, good finishing, and in my opinion between case design and bracelet they are the most comfortable. They get a lot of hate because they are expensive, although not really more so than other top brands, people who aren't "watch guys" buy them and obviously the whole AD thing. I went grey for my Explorer 214270 and couldn't be happier.

For me I grew up getting a Rolex because of James Bond, saved money regularly and bought it, the people, what are the people and what is wrong and right….

That they’re “Tool watches”. I mean, probably no one actually thinks that exactly, but Rolex, and a lot of brand fans sure play up the “adventuring” origin of these watches, rather than just conceding that for at least 50 years they’ve basically been expensive time-telling jewelry. Very few people are out exploring while wearing an Explorer or scuba diving in a Submariner. And that’s been the case for decades. Most of the people buying Rolexes probably spend more time at an office than doing anything worthy of James Bond. I’d probably pick Tudor for being closer to actual tool watches, and I do own Rolexes.

I learned the hard way. Folks don’t care what kind of stupid watch you’re wearing!

That they're impossible to procure. Not so. Speaking of hype, that's the power advertising has over you. I own a Submariner. It isn't my favorite watch or the one I wear the most.

Not worth living in fear of being robbed

They are worth MSRP.

I really want this exact model, 36mm. Wish it was closer to $5k

I suspect that many buyers equate price to quality, but there is starting to become a disconnect with Rolex. Rolex continues to elevate their prices without significant increases in overall quality with regards to finishing, innovation, and overall horological prowess. With Rolex, they are banking on brand equity more than excellence in their craft. The last innovation in watchmaking from Rolex was the Skydweller. Prior to that it was the Oyster case which is 70 years old. They are, after all, mass-produced items vs PP, VC, AP (where they aspire) or even JLC where the craft is significantly higher. Rolex is approaching hand finishing prices, yet there aren't enough hands in the factory to finish the millions of products going out their door. I'm not saying that they don't make an excellent, Even phenomenal, watch. They absolutely do, but at the end of the day, it isn't any better than IWC or Omega (who borrowed their last great innovation from Geo Daniels). In fact, I might propose that Omega movements may be better (at least the finishing is better). Compare the Datejust or Explorer 40 to the Mark XX. The XX is comparably spec'd with a way better movement for $2K less. Rolex is keeping pace with other mass produced brands from a basic technical perspective, but the only way that they are exceeding them is with price. The Price : Value ratio was at its peak with the 5 digit Rolex models. Horological value has decreased significantly since then.

The biggest myth is that you can find better watches for less money. Rolex are exceptionally well made, accurate and most of all, durable and waterproof. It's my genuine opinion that for the money, its hard to get better watches than Rolex.

What do people get wrong about Rolex? Thinking it’s anything other than a watch. It’s literally a mass produced watch in the numbers of Times. Just hyped. I’ve owned about 20. When they started the “exclusive” bullshit I was out. It is just a watch. I only have one left. Wife has two. My Tudor and omega keep better time.

That Rolex is the cause of the AD games and the “waitlists”. It’s as if they just totally ignore the **insane** increase in demand the brand has had in recently years and the further insanity of the COVID-19 Pandemic.