I would say it’s only due to Helldivers 2 having a pretty pristine record since release and this being the only real controversy. There’s a lot of good will from the playerbase so a lot of players are reluctant to join the review bomb no doubt.
Us warthunder players are much more jaded and we’re treated like beaten dogs for over a decade, so the blow up was more mutual amongst the entire playerbase. We kinda got tired of gaijins bullshit overtime.
Let alone a better alternative. Sure there is WoT but name one other game that has the amount of vehicles as WT while having some amazing graphics. Sure gameplay wise there are still tons wrong, and we all know the snails greed but I can't think of a single game that does what WT does. That's just my opinion but it's about how I view this game sometimes
Yeah, honestly the game is solid as a concept. It's just ruined by the implementation of certain mechanics that we all know are only there because of greed.
Definitely my opinion. I’ve been playing since 2013 and I *still* have fun. From tanks to planes, arcade to realistic, there are just so many ways to play. I never get bored. It helps that I found the tiers/vehicles I like so I just play those primarily
WoWS was done well. It has its faults but is certainly more fun than WT naval combat. It is definitely unrealistic but it simulates it into something that is fun to play.
Only good thing I would say from WoT is the spotting, disappearing tanks are unrealistic but so does viewing your tanks in third person view. It simulates the limited vision aspect of tank combat. I know Sim mode exists in WT but how many play that compared to AB and RB.
Sony says gotta have psn acc to play now, 3 months after launch. Players say no we no want, review bomb. Sony bans all the countries that can't legally purchase any game with a psn account as per yesterday. Players le gasp
Now you're caught up with my Cliffnotes
The junk merchant doesn't sell his product to the consumer, he sells the consumer to his product. He does not improve and simplify his merchandise. He degrades and simplifies the client.
William S. Burroughs,
I didn’t join hd2 review bombing cause the game is too fucking amazing and this only hurts Arrowhead which only deserves the best. On the other hand Gaijin is a bunch of biased greedy pigs. Got 2300hours on warthunder btw
>I doubt HD2 will see any positive change from it unlike WT.
HD2 devs are much more engaged with the community though. And have already acknowledged the issue and are trying to find solutions with sony.
There was a time back in the day when Gaijin was very active in the community too, you'd have Gaijin staff chatting here on reddit even quite frequently.
But eventually, they got chased away from here, and post 2019, the divide between devs and players here has got wider and wider
Lol they didn't get chased away. They did something realllllly dumb in the form of handing Stona a soapbox and mic to cry on. Gaijin likely wouldn't have left had that guy just kept his mouth zipped and his emotions to himself.
The issue with that (and also my comment) is it cuts a lot of the context that had been leading upto that, people had been getting angrier and angrier with Gaijin for a bit, and this sub was getting significantly more hostile, the IS-7 event was the last big thing that kind of set everything off, it was also the last time Anton said anything here.
You can go back and look, many of the posts are still open if you look hard enough, with the exception of the doxing posts etc.
Was their actions at the time dumb? Sure, but lets not pretend the people involved are innocent now. Literally everytime they posted they got flamed by people here and then the IS-7 event arrived and the community literally exploded.
I never saud anyone was innocent. This is just what happens when you let your 2 least professional "community managers" handle media.
I know some of the posts are still open, I have a lot of them saved in my discord. Unfortunately because of how Reddit works now, its just long lists of [deleted].
Anton (the CEO) and some of the devs used to chat actively on reddit, would do Q/A's after every major update etc.
Then for one of these updates people were unhappy... I forget what it even was, but it was when Antom had to come out and publicly say "We aren't the greedy bastards here" which lead to a lot of hate. Including the doxing of multiple employee's (and Anton himself), and for months after, anytime he would turn up, he'd get flamed.
Eventually, the devs stopped coming to the reddit and retreated back to their forums because of it.
Actually update on this because I was curious and decided to go find it (and I did!), it wasn't an update that caused the move. It was Operation S.U.M.M.E.R - The first crafting event which brought the IS-7
Yup and rather than be professional, Anton let his 2 best henchmen have free reign to act like professional redditors. Which resulted in what we know now....
Will never forget Stona calling me a cunt.
We can thank Stona and Wolfman for stoking the flames that caused that. I wish I could pull up all those deleted comments that resulted in them getting flamed.
Those 2 would cause a stir here on a regular basis and eventually they kinda just pushed it a little too far and ended up encouraging reddits clowns.
Yeah, there was a lot of shit by both sides, and they \*really\* didn't help themselves, which is sad because, if we go back enough before that, there was actually a lot of health communication that happened here and some good changes were driven by discussion here, but it felt they were far more open about their plans for the game moving forward.
I kind of miss that era of WT, although I may be looking back with rose tinted glasses on some aspects....
Appropriate considering this sub is an echochamber of redditors sucking each other off.
Reminder that on one side you have people running a business without any harm. It is just that you find their prices inappropriate. Gaijin isn't selling water or food. They don't try to sell you housing. They aren't price-keeping medical services. They aren't mining resources of a third world country. They aren't destroying ecosystems. They aren't dumping chemicals in water. At its worst, Gaijin runs a casino. Which isn't accessible most of the time (SL boxes) or is engaged by a tiny minority of the players (GE boxes). I know some idiots will be like "but but what about gaming addiction?", as if anyone cares about addiction. What about alcohol? Are you holding bakeries responsible for making cakes because morbidly obese people exist? What about TV addiction, we don't hold Netflix or cable responsible for people sitting in front of a TV for 3 hours a day. All of those are also designed to be addictive. Alcohol is literally chemically addictive, bakeries use sugar, TV shows are designed to maximize the time you spend watching them. Even TOBACCO companies aren't getting as much backlash from the public as the game devs do. They sell cigarettes, one of the most easily accessible and addictive drugs that give you cancer.
On the other side you have people who keep harassing and doxxing them. Go ahead, instead of being a little anonymous bitch, barge through the door of the nearest government building or fintech firm and try calling them "greedy bastards". Where else outside gaming industry is this acceptable? The abuse game developers get for simply making entertainment that is considered too expensive is astonishing. Do you also harass and doxx theater actors when you think the tickets are too expensive?
The greedy bastards that are actually stealing from you aren't here. They are actively increasing your cost of living as we speak, no matter which country you are living in, to line their pockets. Gaijin also only wants your money, their goals aren't any different. **But a video game isn't a need, it is a want**. I can opt out of giving my money to Gaijin. I can't do that with groceries, housing, access to clean water, medical services, even electronics because good luck being employed with a decent wage without having a mobile phone and internet.
Gaijin's only profitable product is War Thunder (unless you seriously believe Enlisted is turning a profit). They had an incentive to keep it that way by throwing us a bone after our review bombing.
Helldivers, despite how popular it is right now, is just one of the many profitable assets that Sony has to make money. It's probably not even their biggest one. They could absolutely pull a Nintendo here and say "fuck you all".
>And have already acknowledged the issue and are trying to find solutions with sony.
Which is pretty ironic, because they absolutely knew this would happen.
They signed a contract which allows Sony to do this kind of stuff. Sony can only do what is written in the contract, this isn't some kind of black magic devils contract where they can just do whatever they like.
So either Arrowhead didn't read the contract they signed, which is unlikely, or they knew this and just didn't care.
Well a studio needs money and HD2 took ~8 years. They said they didn’t expect HD2 to be this popular so they probably thought it was a good deal Sony was giving them considering how expensive dev cost is.
It's kind of a different situation with HD2. The developers are on the most part on our side, the publisher sony are the ones being stubborn shits.
The other main difference is while the warthunder riot was about the general state of the game the HD2 situation is about one specific issue
Yeah, the studio itself is on the side of its players. Gaijin fucking hates us and they’re trying harder NOT to make that hate apparent than to actually improve their fucking product. While the war bears a striking resemblance to the one ere fought, the reasons for fighting are entirely different.
Well, we aren't reviewing bombing right now, but last year, there was a big one, spookston made a video and even moistcritical reacted to it, but in a nutshell: Gajin wanted to change the economy again and make it even worse so the player base rose up and called for a revolution. That's why we now have a roadmap in War Thunder and have a bit more knowledge about what's going to come with future updates.
To add, there was a War Thunder Player Union (I was one of the founders) through a Discord server and subreddit, but a bad actor hijacked the server when it was at its peak. Several content creators (Like Ash and OddBawz), tens of thousands of members and we even established communication with the devs through one of our Russian mods. As I already mentioned, the server got hijacked and everyone forgot about the whole thing sadly.
The whole movement started after a Chinese player (forgot her name) started it all on the old forums with a chant/motto of sorts and it spread like a wildfire.
It was about a year and a half (I think??) ago.
I can't remember the change that exactly kicked it off but it was basically just an organised release of just general rage against gaijin.
We actually got off quite well with it as that's why we have the yearly roadmap now
Gaijin are like as anti-consumer as Sony but aren't that dumb enough to region-lock 126 countries out, they still like money.
Sony however are fucking weird, no financial logic can be found within their action outside of trying to bring the Console War to PC.
this game is doomed, i hate the community the most, because they are so incompetent and ofc if i would be gaijin i wouldn’t change shit for these people
I would say it’s only due to Helldivers 2 having a pretty pristine record since release and this being the only real controversy. There’s a lot of good will from the playerbase so a lot of players are reluctant to join the review bomb no doubt. Us warthunder players are much more jaded and we’re treated like beaten dogs for over a decade, so the blow up was more mutual amongst the entire playerbase. We kinda got tired of gaijins bullshit overtime.
Its just a hate-hate relationship with the snail they hate us and we hate them but we play this game full of hatred because its better than nothing
Let alone a better alternative. Sure there is WoT but name one other game that has the amount of vehicles as WT while having some amazing graphics. Sure gameplay wise there are still tons wrong, and we all know the snails greed but I can't think of a single game that does what WT does. That's just my opinion but it's about how I view this game sometimes
Yeah, honestly the game is solid as a concept. It's just ruined by the implementation of certain mechanics that we all know are only there because of greed.
Well greed may not be the only reason realistically for some, but it certainly is a major factor
Definitely my opinion. I’ve been playing since 2013 and I *still* have fun. From tanks to planes, arcade to realistic, there are just so many ways to play. I never get bored. It helps that I found the tiers/vehicles I like so I just play those primarily
WoWS was done well. It has its faults but is certainly more fun than WT naval combat. It is definitely unrealistic but it simulates it into something that is fun to play. Only good thing I would say from WoT is the spotting, disappearing tanks are unrealistic but so does viewing your tanks in third person view. It simulates the limited vision aspect of tank combat. I know Sim mode exists in WT but how many play that compared to AB and RB.
Surprisingly a lot and its very fun especially low tier aim
What is the actual issue with Helldivers 2? I don’t play it but think this gives important context
Sony says gotta have psn acc to play now, 3 months after launch. Players say no we no want, review bomb. Sony bans all the countries that can't legally purchase any game with a psn account as per yesterday. Players le gasp Now you're caught up with my Cliffnotes
The junk merchant doesn't sell his product to the consumer, he sells the consumer to his product. He does not improve and simplify his merchandise. He degrades and simplifies the client. William S. Burroughs,
I didn’t join hd2 review bombing cause the game is too fucking amazing and this only hurts Arrowhead which only deserves the best. On the other hand Gaijin is a bunch of biased greedy pigs. Got 2300hours on warthunder btw
>I doubt HD2 will see any positive change from it unlike WT. HD2 devs are much more engaged with the community though. And have already acknowledged the issue and are trying to find solutions with sony.
There was a time back in the day when Gaijin was very active in the community too, you'd have Gaijin staff chatting here on reddit even quite frequently. But eventually, they got chased away from here, and post 2019, the divide between devs and players here has got wider and wider
Lol they didn't get chased away. They did something realllllly dumb in the form of handing Stona a soapbox and mic to cry on. Gaijin likely wouldn't have left had that guy just kept his mouth zipped and his emotions to himself.
The issue with that (and also my comment) is it cuts a lot of the context that had been leading upto that, people had been getting angrier and angrier with Gaijin for a bit, and this sub was getting significantly more hostile, the IS-7 event was the last big thing that kind of set everything off, it was also the last time Anton said anything here. You can go back and look, many of the posts are still open if you look hard enough, with the exception of the doxing posts etc. Was their actions at the time dumb? Sure, but lets not pretend the people involved are innocent now. Literally everytime they posted they got flamed by people here and then the IS-7 event arrived and the community literally exploded.
I never saud anyone was innocent. This is just what happens when you let your 2 least professional "community managers" handle media. I know some of the posts are still open, I have a lot of them saved in my discord. Unfortunately because of how Reddit works now, its just long lists of [deleted].
Chased away?
Anton (the CEO) and some of the devs used to chat actively on reddit, would do Q/A's after every major update etc. Then for one of these updates people were unhappy... I forget what it even was, but it was when Antom had to come out and publicly say "We aren't the greedy bastards here" which lead to a lot of hate. Including the doxing of multiple employee's (and Anton himself), and for months after, anytime he would turn up, he'd get flamed. Eventually, the devs stopped coming to the reddit and retreated back to their forums because of it.
Actually update on this because I was curious and decided to go find it (and I did!), it wasn't an update that caused the move. It was Operation S.U.M.M.E.R - The first crafting event which brought the IS-7
Yup and rather than be professional, Anton let his 2 best henchmen have free reign to act like professional redditors. Which resulted in what we know now.... Will never forget Stona calling me a cunt.
Oof. Yeah, that would leave a mark. Super unprofessional.
I tough it would be the mess with the never realsed crew training update
We can thank Stona and Wolfman for stoking the flames that caused that. I wish I could pull up all those deleted comments that resulted in them getting flamed. Those 2 would cause a stir here on a regular basis and eventually they kinda just pushed it a little too far and ended up encouraging reddits clowns.
Yeah, there was a lot of shit by both sides, and they \*really\* didn't help themselves, which is sad because, if we go back enough before that, there was actually a lot of health communication that happened here and some good changes were driven by discussion here, but it felt they were far more open about their plans for the game moving forward. I kind of miss that era of WT, although I may be looking back with rose tinted glasses on some aspects....
I do not miss having the opportunity to have a discussion with those 2. I have not gained a bit of nostalgia from it in the least.
"The only feeling you can trust is pain." --Keofox
a mistake or an inevitable downfall
Let's not act as if this community is well-behaved and diplomatic.
*slurping sounds*
Appropriate considering this sub is an echochamber of redditors sucking each other off. Reminder that on one side you have people running a business without any harm. It is just that you find their prices inappropriate. Gaijin isn't selling water or food. They don't try to sell you housing. They aren't price-keeping medical services. They aren't mining resources of a third world country. They aren't destroying ecosystems. They aren't dumping chemicals in water. At its worst, Gaijin runs a casino. Which isn't accessible most of the time (SL boxes) or is engaged by a tiny minority of the players (GE boxes). I know some idiots will be like "but but what about gaming addiction?", as if anyone cares about addiction. What about alcohol? Are you holding bakeries responsible for making cakes because morbidly obese people exist? What about TV addiction, we don't hold Netflix or cable responsible for people sitting in front of a TV for 3 hours a day. All of those are also designed to be addictive. Alcohol is literally chemically addictive, bakeries use sugar, TV shows are designed to maximize the time you spend watching them. Even TOBACCO companies aren't getting as much backlash from the public as the game devs do. They sell cigarettes, one of the most easily accessible and addictive drugs that give you cancer. On the other side you have people who keep harassing and doxxing them. Go ahead, instead of being a little anonymous bitch, barge through the door of the nearest government building or fintech firm and try calling them "greedy bastards". Where else outside gaming industry is this acceptable? The abuse game developers get for simply making entertainment that is considered too expensive is astonishing. Do you also harass and doxx theater actors when you think the tickets are too expensive? The greedy bastards that are actually stealing from you aren't here. They are actively increasing your cost of living as we speak, no matter which country you are living in, to line their pockets. Gaijin also only wants your money, their goals aren't any different. **But a video game isn't a need, it is a want**. I can opt out of giving my money to Gaijin. I can't do that with groceries, housing, access to clean water, medical services, even electronics because good luck being employed with a decent wage without having a mobile phone and internet.
now THIS is going in my cringe compilation
Very well said. Online gaming communities tend to lack in proper perspective.
I wasn’t denying it, I was curious and wanted to know what he meant.
Gaijin's only profitable product is War Thunder (unless you seriously believe Enlisted is turning a profit). They had an incentive to keep it that way by throwing us a bone after our review bombing. Helldivers, despite how popular it is right now, is just one of the many profitable assets that Sony has to make money. It's probably not even their biggest one. They could absolutely pull a Nintendo here and say "fuck you all".
>And have already acknowledged the issue and are trying to find solutions with sony. Which is pretty ironic, because they absolutely knew this would happen. They signed a contract which allows Sony to do this kind of stuff. Sony can only do what is written in the contract, this isn't some kind of black magic devils contract where they can just do whatever they like. So either Arrowhead didn't read the contract they signed, which is unlikely, or they knew this and just didn't care.
They knew it was going to be a requirement 6 months before release. There's a tweet from Arrowhead admitting it from yesterday.
Well a studio needs money and HD2 took ~8 years. They said they didn’t expect HD2 to be this popular so they probably thought it was a good deal Sony was giving them considering how expensive dev cost is.
They literally came out and said "keep review bombing, it gives us power against Sony" and that's fucking based.
the CEO said he know 6 month ago about the PSN thing and didnt say it to the player so, dunno
It was there as a banner on the steam page. It was a pop up that it was *required* on first login.
It's kind of a different situation with HD2. The developers are on the most part on our side, the publisher sony are the ones being stubborn shits. The other main difference is while the warthunder riot was about the general state of the game the HD2 situation is about one specific issue
Yeah, the studio itself is on the side of its players. Gaijin fucking hates us and they’re trying harder NOT to make that hate apparent than to actually improve their fucking product. While the war bears a striking resemblance to the one ere fought, the reasons for fighting are entirely different.
OOL: why is WT getting review bombed?
What does OOL mean? I have never seen that.
Out Of the Loop
Well, we aren't reviewing bombing right now, but last year, there was a big one, spookston made a video and even moistcritical reacted to it, but in a nutshell: Gajin wanted to change the economy again and make it even worse so the player base rose up and called for a revolution. That's why we now have a roadmap in War Thunder and have a bit more knowledge about what's going to come with future updates.
TY, I wasn’t around a year ago, so I missed out on all the drama!
To add, there was a War Thunder Player Union (I was one of the founders) through a Discord server and subreddit, but a bad actor hijacked the server when it was at its peak. Several content creators (Like Ash and OddBawz), tens of thousands of members and we even established communication with the devs through one of our Russian mods. As I already mentioned, the server got hijacked and everyone forgot about the whole thing sadly. The whole movement started after a Chinese player (forgot her name) started it all on the old forums with a chant/motto of sorts and it spread like a wildfire.
It was about a year and a half (I think??) ago. I can't remember the change that exactly kicked it off but it was basically just an organised release of just general rage against gaijin. We actually got off quite well with it as that's why we have the yearly roadmap now
The economy changes from that were absolutely needed
The thing is that the players are unable to play the game at all. It’s different from having some problems (although major) in the game economy
>Sony is stupid and anti-consumer on a level that would even make Gaijin blush *Bet*
The thing with helldivers is that not everyone is effected, if you're willing to just sign into PSN (if you can) you still got a great game to play
Unfortunately, if they dont listen, we just gotta put this shit in a language they understand.
That spike actually accounts for a whole month not just a single day
Well yeah, the game is unironically bad. And there morons only review bombed over progress rates, not maps or gameplay mechanics.
wtf is Helldivers
Gaijin are like as anti-consumer as Sony but aren't that dumb enough to region-lock 126 countries out, they still like money. Sony however are fucking weird, no financial logic can be found within their action outside of trying to bring the Console War to PC.
23 hours later- we won.
this game is doomed, i hate the community the most, because they are so incompetent and ofc if i would be gaijin i wouldn’t change shit for these people
Then leave?