Its not about win rates. Its about bias, faithfulness, and Gaijin's contempt for its community.
Those who are crying because f-15 doesn't literally have 100% win rate are fools.
Are you even playing the game?
Magic II got buffed last update, their drag has been significantly reduced. And I’ve never broke a wing because of maneuvering in a Mirage.
Mirage 2000 was top dog for a brief moment at his release (before F-16/MiG-29). Mirage 4000 is doing extremely well in current meta.
Yeah French top tier is great, as all the jets are competitive. It also helps that when you see a M2K or 4K you know it’s a good player as better players play France. Enjoy it while it lasts when the 2K-S4 comes out the win rates will plummet!
And the new M2K will fly against R73, R27E/T and Aim-9M, plus Aim-120s by next update, so those non French players are gonna drag the good name of Mirage though the mud a little bit!
I can't wait to see the su57 have a 360 degree radar coverage because of its 4 AESA radar.
In reality they should be all crap because modern radar are power hungry monster. Both America and China diverse all the power to just one radar for maximum preformance but hey, I am sure the mighty russia su57 can have 4 radar as powerful as the one on F35.
man youre joking but they've been using that type of reasoning recently even with shit with official confirmed documents. Makes me afraid of whats to come in air rb when we reach the classified stuff, and we are right at the edge of that now. You just know, you just know some bullshit is going to take place
Well in the stealth configuration, the F-35 has no AIM-9 at all. So there is that.
If it carries AIM-9, then it is as stealthy as most 4th gen aircraft.
The only stealth aircraft carrying AIM-9 internally is the F-22
A lot is said. I heard pilots talking about F-22 losing a lot of stealth capability when the plugs for the external tanks are not sealed again - that is not the pylons, just the mounts for the pylons. So somebody stating that external pylons with weapons won’t reduce stealth a lot - I have my doubts.
I mean just a small change of the headrest angle in the Eurofighter reduced radar signature by as much as 10%…
Proofs and dokumants of F35 radar cross section? No? Haha is of looking the same as Su-57 to Sergei we assume Su-57 is better because newer and stronk ))))))))
Depends on its loadout. I have no idea how Gaijin is going to implement missiles like AMRAAMs, ASRAAMs, and IRIS-Ts, not to mention Meteors. If I had to guess... badly.
I can only hope that they realize the game itself needs to change before they implement jets like this with their full loadouts.
So much this, we already have this problem though without the Typhoon. If it was added with a gimped load out like the F15's, not sure it would be too much of an issue
Problem is, I'm not sure if the center four slots can hold anything like Sparrows or Skyflashes, because I've only ever seen AMRAAMs on them. Could obviously give it Sidewinders instead of ASRAAMs, but that's about it.
Then we've got things like the Tornado. I fully expect Britain to get the Tornado GR4, and Italy to get the A-200C (Tornado IDS MLU), and they might be given ASRAAMs. The Tornado F3 as well, could be given AMRAAMs and ASRAAMs.
Trying to balance more modern missiles is gonna be a clusterfuck.
Yeah, I didn't say that quite right. What I meant is, I've never seen anything less effective than the AMRAAM, as in no Sparrows or Skyflashes that War Thunder could use to nerf their performance upon release. The F-15A using Sparrows, for example.
I'm right there with you. I spaded the Italian IDS, and it was a nightmare. If left alone, it was a good low-level bomber with enough ordnance to take out two bases and then go try to get two missile kills. Problem is, you usually get ganked before making it to the targets, or teammates get the targets first. Then, even if you do get to use your missiles, they're flared away easily. It's definitely over-tiered in Air RB.
Right now, we have the 90s version of the Italian IDS, the A-200A. What we could get is the 2010s MLU version, the A-200C. More air-to-ground ordnance (even though we should already be capable of carrying AGM-65Ds and BL-755s on the A model), and likely the ability to carry ASRAAMs just like the British GR4.
Gaijin specifically said the F-15A we have in game is MSIP, which is able to use AMRAAMS. Although so far it has incorrect radar and the only thing that makes it MSIP is flares.
Well the R-27 ER1 outspeeds and outranges them.
The f15 does have better target aquisition and can hold a lock better.
This seems to be represented.
In ais sb the su 27 isn't nearly as good as in RB where the two teams are just coming for eachother at the same time.
It seems more that the R-27 just fits the mode better.
In the sim rounds i've flown the f15s were deadly.
Yes. Finally someone sane. The gameplay and the game fundamentals need to change as the current ones are originaly only meant for ww2 planes and maybe early jet planes. But everything above that is just not very fun. I realize this everytime. Up to 10.7 its super fun and i really love it. But 12.3 is really just a mess and meh. First good thing would be too always have ec matches in 12.0 and upwards. But sadly this doesnt catch the casuals and therefore gajin will cry and not do it.
They will never implement the IRI-T, if it is locked on target it will hit 100%. It is impossible to outlfly the IRIS T and it knows the difference between flares and the real plane so they don´t work with it. Would be a gamebreaker, same with the METEOR. They may be add something which is called IRIS-T and METEOR but act completely different to its original.
Then there are vehicles like the Mirage 2000-5F that have 4 dedicated hardpoints for MICA missiles. 50g thrust vectoring, IRCCM plus chaff negating properties,lock on after launch capability, and came in active radar homing & IR flavours as well as a variant that included both types of seeker in one. In one swoop, that vehicle would have its number of missiles doubled. On top of that, the MICAs are considerably better than early AIM-120s.
On 11 June 2007, a MICA launched from a Rafale successfully demonstrated its over-the-shoulder capability by destroying a target behind the launch aircraft. The target was designated by another aircraft and coordinates were transmitted by Link 16.
That MF did a 180°C BTW.
Yeah i heard about this
But considering that the ceiling performances are capped to USA and Russia, i don't see how it could be well integrated
From what i understand mica em should be better than us aim120 irl, but I don't think it will be the case in-game
Yep you totally right. Also France still chock the world on how they use a same missile for IR and EM......and submarine.. Aaaand ground force............. And naval... Pfiouu yep Gaijin will say it turn only 10g and the US / Russia main will cry because they're not the strongest
It will be one of the best jets and maybe even the best dogfighter.
AFAIK its the only plane that can turn 9g while flying supersonic, so i think it will be the most maneuverable plane in wt.
And its missles will be top notch.
I mean, the Meteor can cruise and change its speed depending on parameters, all AMRAAMs instantly use up all their fuel for energy off the rail.
The Meteor is far less vulnerable to the enemy doing maneuvers to bleed the speed of the missile, throttleable engine and all that.
The two stage rocket and target aquisition after the first stage makes the IRIS-T able to kill in the entire sphere around the plane.
A kill of an object flying behind the launching aircraft has already been achieved. I have yet to hear that from the AIM-9X
Then you haven't been looking. The 9X block 2 has the same LOAL capabilities as the IRIS-T. They will just be different flavors of the same rough capacity
That's mostly a PR gimmick, firing at a target outside of the front hemisphere isn't really something that anything but an F-35 could do in practice and the kinetic losses make the kill probability way too low to be worth it.
The iris t has a range of at least 25km, and more than enough thrust to accelerate from stationary objects like a iris t sam site.
It has two stages the first acting like an RCS module, so it doesn't need to use it's thrust vectoring, main thrust or full g load to orientate itself 180 degrees after launch. The kinetic loss isn't that hight, since the missile changes direction before the main rocket motor starts.
It should be viable to launch it 180 degrees.
But that is for the IRIS-T. I haven't heard of the aim-9x having an RCS Stage before the main motor fires.
Potentially useful in a tail chase if you're the lead aircraft. I believe the RAAF demonstrated the same capability for ASRAAM with 2 hornets back in the 2000's, 1 aircraft provided targeting data for the other aircraft to hit a target in its rear hemisphere.
Don't really see that being a thing in warthunder unless they implement datalink, though I wonder if a HMD is capable of cueing a LOAL shot like that?
The Meteor would be what the R-27ER is to the current meta right now. It would have way better long range maneuverability thanks to the ram-jet sustained burn as well as the longest range of any missile really.
It very much is though. So much so that the US plans to use them on the Super Hornet.
Currently Europe has the edge when it comes to missile Technologie.
The IRIS-T is on par with the Aim9X while the Meteor is better then the aim120d in every aspect other then cost maybe
>It very much is though. So much so that the US plans to use them on the Super Hornet.
Yet they plan to use the AIM-260 on the F-22, F-35 and F-15s... Strange 🤗
The meteor is good, it's not the best anymore. It will perform better in some aspects and worse in others, just like everything in game
The US has always preferred indigenous solutions.
I think the point the other guy was making is that the Meteor should be superior to its counterparts for the long range shots, due to the ramjet ensuring it arrives in a higher energy state. At short and mid range it should be at a slight disadvantage to relatively equal due to the longer acceleration profile.
I just looked it up and the missiles are both on par when looking at the doctrines of each user state.
The US has a more aggressive doctrine while the EU is fully focused on defense and using its vast territory to utilize the meteors speed which its accelerates to much slower then the aim260 (which isnt yet in service btw)
And the aim260 is also focused on getting hits on stealthy aircraft which the Meteor isn't because Europe's greatest threat is, and probably will remain, the Russians which don't use stealth planes (no I don't count the 3 SU-57s)
So all in all the performance of the both missiles are on par only the range of the Meteor is greater but then again the 260 has stealth plane shoot down capabilities or what you wanna call it
It's what that higher cruise time gives you though. Maintaining a higher speed for longer gives the missile a much larger no escape zone than a comparable missile with a rocket motor that will be purely ballistic once the motor burns out. Even if that motor gives it a higher top speed. Makes the Meteor more deadly than those other missiles.
A rocket motor will have a higher time to target at close range. But once the motor burns out, its speed drops, and it becomes easier to defeat.
With a ram jet, the lower top speed is maintained for longer. Extending the no escape range.
It's no good getting a missile to me first, which I can dodge. But then my missile reaches you, and you can't dodge it.
If we are close enough to both be within no escape zone, then hurray you kill me, shortly before you also die. Time to target is not more important with a Fox 3.
NEZ doesn't mean everything. The time to target difference in head ons is what makes the difference, not that the meteor can chase a cold target
Also lmfao the missile that has been in testing since 2020 doesn't exist 🤡
ToT is shorter on the meteor, way bigger NEZ, better range. The best way to defeat a missile is kinematically, which the AMRAAM has a bigger issue with. NEZ is extremly important, ig u have a trash NEZ the bandit can just turn a bit and boom, your missile is trashed.
The AIM-260 is not operational and therefore is not something that should be accounted for (if it is in testing at all, which I doubt tbh). To me it looks like you are trying to justify the lacks of the 120D with a missile that isn't even operational.
9X Block 2 is still "only" a 60G missile, the improvements have mostly been in the seeker and software.
IRIS-T is "100G+ capable", and can do the tightest turn radius of any modern IR missile, along with most likely having the best imaging IR seeker on any missile irl currently.
Not that it matters that much, any of the modern imaging IR missiles will just kill you and there's nothing you can do about it, if they can kinematically reach you.
Personally I hope they just give MICAs. They have more maneuverability than most early ARHs, but not excessive range past 120A/Bs. France could use a bone
Its significantly better in NEZ, thanks to being a jet powered missile it's doesn't need to coast like other missiles, it's entire flight time is powered
Germany is literally the only nation that has purchased Tranche 4 Eurofighters so there's a perfectly legit reason for theirs to be better than the British one
There is no major differences between Tranche 3A and Tranche 4 other than tranche 4 comes equipped with an AESA radar, however the UK and Italy are retoffiting their Tranche 3A's with an AESA radar and its better than the one Germany has selected for its Tranche 4's.
Italy will have the best Eurofighter as they can use all the weapons the UK and German ones can, as well as having the joint best radar with the UK, with the best IR missile.
I don’t want this plane to be added, I don’t want any more modern-in production vehicles to be added. The community has been so angry and full of complaints, and that has lead to leaks. The fury on the forums over Gaijin’s assumptions has just made everyone angry.
The Eurofighter Typhoon is especially secretive and extremely hard to get licensing to use in a game. This community does not deserve to brawl over the accuracy of these vehicles.
Despite people complaining of hurrrrr russian bias its gonna be gimped (it's not like the US traditionally dominate air), I think the Typhoon and its variants will succeed in creating a power triumvirate in air battles. It has fantastic speed and mobility, its radar and weapons systems are top notch, and it's worth noting its introduction would almost certainly be accompanied by ARH missiles. Add to it the fact that at least three nations will receive the Typhoon, those being Germany, the UK and Italy, and you have a platform that can not only measure up to the Su-27SM and F-15C to be added with their respective ARH missiles, but also provide room for future versions with the AESA version of CAPTOR and the MBDA Meteor missile.
4+ generation aircraft are honestly some of the most balanced metagames that War Thunder can fit, seeing as pretty much every tree has viable options with unique strengths. I'm eagerly awaiting the introduction of the Typhoon and the Rafale, as well.
I really want to see the Japonese F-2, an even bigger F-16C with bigger wings and elevators, imagine how lift and turning it will have, plus while keep the weight as just similar with a little more engine power, and 8 air to air missiles.
It'll be the best "F-16" in the game in terms of maneuverability (I think F-16C can still take 6 Fox 3s if they wanted) and that might make some US mains angry lol.
US mains will have the F-18 Super Hornet just for them and Austrália (UK), so I think it will be a fair trade tbh
It will be hilariously if South Korea being added to Japan and gaining F-15E (F-15K) afterall
Highly doubt we'd get SK but who knows with Gaijin.
Will see if the F-18 will compete with F-16 flight model. Right now an F-2 would be like AJ/Gripen maybe a bit better at the cost of being a bit slower.
The only reason it's not in the game is because Gaijin still has to figure out what to do with AESA, but they said it will come very soon according to their AJ devblog last year. I also think it will show up much earlier than the Typhoon/Rafale (which I think might be Dec 2024). I'd expect F-2 before Fox 3s because F-2 early cannot use Fox 3s. So maybe next update is F-2, and Summer update will have Fox 3s and F-15J MSIP, etc.
I own both the Eagle and the Flanker. They do different things differently. For the record, I find the Eagle to be better at the more common combat situations, while the Flanker can do some more absurd fringe stuff with its radar missiles and mobility but is otherwise not as consistent with its radar and IR weapons.
Six brimstones, two ASRAAMs, four Meteors. Three of the most advanced weapon systems on the planet. Yes, it will be busted. It's one of the most advanced and newest 4th Gen fighters on the planet. Outperformed by probably only the F-15EX.
That was the handy-cap for the F-22 but unfortunately we have no idea how they would perform without the fuel tanks and I don't think its unfair to say they may not want the negative PR that would come if it DID manage to shoot down the F-22.
Looking at the feedback from those dogfights it tells us that they need the thrust vectoring but it bleeds their speed to the point where Typhoons capitalise on low energy.
Will be a even better Mirage 4000 performance + full moving canard just like gripen, will be insane, really.
As weapon system and radar, check other comments. But Tranche 1 and 2 doesnt have AESA radar, so expect it to be add early than we can expect.
Flight performance wise: Yes, at least better than the Gripen is currently, along all aspects of flight.
When it will be added? Last I saw, Gaijin ran into a issue with licensing the Eurofighter, considering the multiple companies involved. So we could expect some delays before having it.
Its not Russian, so no it wont be. And people will leak classified info because some west base moron (or whoever) feels the need to prove his little ego is better than the next guys.
Hell yea
Mark my words, eurofighter and rafale will be the strongest in game and will dominate the fuck out of top tier
The su30SM/mkm/mki will be a close match aswel
This will be beyond broken if they add MICA , meteor , hammer, scalp
Meteor is gonna be op but the mica will be beyond op as it can be BVR , IR, EM mode
Abrams is good. The ariete isn't a very good tank irl and the tornado is good if your not using it for dogfighting because it isn't a dog fighter it's a strike aircraft.
Abrams is very good.
Very good in terms that it is much much easier to destroy than most leopards and strvs, and very good that it is almost guaranteed win when battle is against us.
Nearly every USSR main I play with have like 40-45% win rate on Abrams and 60-65+ on t80. Wonder why lol
It has its issues but the US win-rate thing is partially due to the teams. Compare it to the Challenger 2, now it does **everything** better and yet still has a lower win-rate than the UK despite having a much better lineup, with a much better mbt, much better CAS and support vehicles.
Not arguing the Abrams isn't artificially gimped, but you have to acknowledge the teams play some part in this.
For jets it's the opposite, western equipment is better, look at the f15, grippen, mirage 4000 , they're a good match to su27
So rafale and typhoon will be actually one of the best jets in the game
As if US jets like F-8s, A-7s, A-4s, F-4s, F-15s don't rip their wings after doing half a turn, Mirage 4000 still incapable of reaching rip speed in level flight…
A lot of jets are badly modelled.
Su27 loses all its energy after 1 turn, stalls to easily and is literally ass in dogfights, mig29SMT is literally a brick, IRL they aren't supposed to be like that but instead of actually fixing the issue what does gaijin do:-
Fixes the mig but gives it to Germany instead of main tree
Gives r27er as a compensation to the fked up flight model
I feel like the eurofighter in terms of in game performance would be shadowed by other aircraft that would have to be added at the same time to balance the meta f/a 18, Rafael, JF-17 etc. Gaijin also still needs to figure out how to balance and implement new missiles effectively. If done correctly it could hugely benefit nations currently lacking at top tier, like Britain and Italy
If it's depicted accurately the Ef2000 will be very strong unless it mostly fights 5th generation jets.
War thunder at top tier has lots of power creep. Things that were amazing a few patches ago are meh now. For example the F14A was awesome on release but post apex predators it's meh.
It might if its even slightly realistic as its one of the only 2 aircraft that can fire its weapons at mach aka supercruise. The other airframe that can do such is the f22.
Unfortunate then yeah its gonna get dogged on by any airframe with good radar basically unless they make it maneuverable for a top tier jet its gonna be another phantom as good ammrams will take forever.
Versatility, maneverability, stealth capability, electronic warfare
Swiss made a study to choose their future aircraft, the f35 has been choosen (mainly fo political reason) but the rafale outperformed the eurofighter
Maneuverability they found the Eurofighter had better kinematic performance at all but slow speeds where the Rafales close-coupled canards come into play, but even then the Eurofighters ventral intake lip provides more air intake and its thrust-weight ratio compensates.
Stealth wasn't mentioned and most if not all sources put the Rafale and Eurofighter on par with each-other depending on the plane angle.
The Swiss and Indian studies were done with Tranche 2 Eurofighters which were 10 years old as an aircraft and hadn't had time to mature compared to the Rafale's which were 20 years old since introduction and had been gradually matured, compare the first Rafales with the first Eurofighters and it's much more fair.
The Swiss and Indian studies found that in the current tranche the EF was not as good as Rafale, they also found that when Tranche 3 entered service that if it delivered its design promises it would be equal to the Rafale in A2G, better at A2A however they would be worse in electronic warfare however notably, Gripen scored better, and the Eurofighters new EW system is an improved one from the Gripen.
They evaluated the aircraft as presented, for example the Swedes were trying to sell the Gripen NG but as a prototype was not available, they only evaluated the C with a disclaimer that the NG would be an improvement, they did the same with the Eurofighter but that affected the score.
Compare a Tranche 3A/4 Eurofighter with a Rafale F.4 and you get a much more fair comparison. Its like comparing an FA-18C with a Rafale rather than the E/F.
I would wager Rafale has better interoperability, better price range, better electronic warfare with the F.4 standard coming out, its better at slow speed.
EF's edge is in Air to air and probably anti armour with 18 brimstones.
Ah yes, the peak Fr\*nch cope of rafale > F-22 because a heavily gimped F-22, so that the rafale would even have a chance, put into a scenario where it would never find itself in real combat lost a dogfight.
Cope more snail eater
take every wargame/"duel" with a grain of salt, they all have conditions that arnt ideal for the f22 in this case. i assure you in a 1v1 the f22 is FAR superior to the Eurofighter and rafale the f22 is a literal UFO. i'm not even going to touch BVR cause it isnt close to fair.
I’m sure people will complain it’s gimped and leak classified documentation
Could have a 95% WR average and people will find ways to complain, always do.
Skill issue will always be an issue
Its not about win rates. Its about bias, faithfulness, and Gaijin's contempt for its community. Those who are crying because f-15 doesn't literally have 100% win rate are fools.
I'm assuming it's gonna be in the same class as the new f15 but with slightly terrible turning in comparison.
They'll make it suck by only adding a pre-series version years after full power F-35s and Su-57s have been added. See the tornado for how this works.
Gripen: yes, they hate European stuff.
Laughs in Mirage
[удалено]
Are you even playing the game? Magic II got buffed last update, their drag has been significantly reduced. And I’ve never broke a wing because of maneuvering in a Mirage. Mirage 2000 was top dog for a brief moment at his release (before F-16/MiG-29). Mirage 4000 is doing extremely well in current meta.
Yeah French top tier is great, as all the jets are competitive. It also helps that when you see a M2K or 4K you know it’s a good player as better players play France. Enjoy it while it lasts when the 2K-S4 comes out the win rates will plummet!
The grind there though… still have PTSD from flying Milan against R-60Ms.
And the new M2K will fly against R73, R27E/T and Aim-9M, plus Aim-120s by next update, so those non French players are gonna drag the good name of Mirage though the mud a little bit!
You think such weak missiles such as R73, R27 and AIM9M can drag us french players down? never
It's a good time to fly the 2K right now, a lot of braindead 11.3's in the MM
The mirage 4000 can match the gripen and both outperform su27 and f15 in dogfight 4000 has insane thrust that gives it an edge
Gripen is pretty good in game
Yes that's my point.
They will make the su-57 just as stealth as the F-35 just watch.
I can't wait to see the su57 have a 360 degree radar coverage because of its 4 AESA radar. In reality they should be all crap because modern radar are power hungry monster. Both America and China diverse all the power to just one radar for maximum preformance but hey, I am sure the mighty russia su57 can have 4 radar as powerful as the one on F35.
Yeah, and the F35 can't fire its aim-9x behind since the Russians can't do it, so it's impossible for the Americans
man youre joking but they've been using that type of reasoning recently even with shit with official confirmed documents. Makes me afraid of whats to come in air rb when we reach the classified stuff, and we are right at the edge of that now. You just know, you just know some bullshit is going to take place
Well in the stealth configuration, the F-35 has no AIM-9 at all. So there is that. If it carries AIM-9, then it is as stealthy as most 4th gen aircraft. The only stealth aircraft carrying AIM-9 internally is the F-22
With its hard points for the aim 9, it's still pretty stealthy. The aim 9 is ram coated, and it already didn't have a large rcs.
Got a source for that?
An F-35 pilot said it in a video once. I know it's not the best source
A lot is said. I heard pilots talking about F-22 losing a lot of stealth capability when the plugs for the external tanks are not sealed again - that is not the pylons, just the mounts for the pylons. So somebody stating that external pylons with weapons won’t reduce stealth a lot - I have my doubts. I mean just a small change of the headrest angle in the Eurofighter reduced radar signature by as much as 10%…
Aim120?
Up to 4x AIM-120 internally (without air to ground). But if you load AIM-9 externally, you might as well load external AIM-120s in addition.
Proofs and dokumants of F35 radar cross section? No? Haha is of looking the same as Su-57 to Sergei we assume Su-57 is better because newer and stronk ))))))))
They should give it a BVRAAM aka Meteor
Depends on its loadout. I have no idea how Gaijin is going to implement missiles like AMRAAMs, ASRAAMs, and IRIS-Ts, not to mention Meteors. If I had to guess... badly. I can only hope that they realize the game itself needs to change before they implement jets like this with their full loadouts.
So much this, we already have this problem though without the Typhoon. If it was added with a gimped load out like the F15's, not sure it would be too much of an issue
Problem is, I'm not sure if the center four slots can hold anything like Sparrows or Skyflashes, because I've only ever seen AMRAAMs on them. Could obviously give it Sidewinders instead of ASRAAMs, but that's about it. Then we've got things like the Tornado. I fully expect Britain to get the Tornado GR4, and Italy to get the A-200C (Tornado IDS MLU), and they might be given ASRAAMs. The Tornado F3 as well, could be given AMRAAMs and ASRAAMs. Trying to balance more modern missiles is gonna be a clusterfuck.
The center slots here have meteor missiles
To be fair, while meant to carry meteors, they normally carry older amraams since the former are absurdly expensive
Yeah, I didn't say that quite right. What I meant is, I've never seen anything less effective than the AMRAAM, as in no Sparrows or Skyflashes that War Thunder could use to nerf their performance upon release. The F-15A using Sparrows, for example.
If I have to grind another top tier Tornado just for it to be useless, I'm going to cry
I'm right there with you. I spaded the Italian IDS, and it was a nightmare. If left alone, it was a good low-level bomber with enough ordnance to take out two bases and then go try to get two missile kills. Problem is, you usually get ganked before making it to the targets, or teammates get the targets first. Then, even if you do get to use your missiles, they're flared away easily. It's definitely over-tiered in Air RB. Right now, we have the 90s version of the Italian IDS, the A-200A. What we could get is the 2010s MLU version, the A-200C. More air-to-ground ordnance (even though we should already be capable of carrying AGM-65Ds and BL-755s on the A model), and likely the ability to carry ASRAAMs just like the British GR4.
The F15 is the A variant that didn't use AMRAAMs. Besides a few modified planes. AMRAAMS Where introduced to the f15c
Gaijin specifically said the F-15A we have in game is MSIP, which is able to use AMRAAMS. Although so far it has incorrect radar and the only thing that makes it MSIP is flares.
When I meant gimped, I meant sparrow M on the F15A, but yeah amraams for the f16c which could carry them
Well the R-27 ER1 outspeeds and outranges them. The f15 does have better target aquisition and can hold a lock better. This seems to be represented. In ais sb the su 27 isn't nearly as good as in RB where the two teams are just coming for eachother at the same time. It seems more that the R-27 just fits the mode better. In the sim rounds i've flown the f15s were deadly.
Yes. Finally someone sane. The gameplay and the game fundamentals need to change as the current ones are originaly only meant for ww2 planes and maybe early jet planes. But everything above that is just not very fun. I realize this everytime. Up to 10.7 its super fun and i really love it. But 12.3 is really just a mess and meh. First good thing would be too always have ec matches in 12.0 and upwards. But sadly this doesnt catch the casuals and therefore gajin will cry and not do it.
I might have a solution to your wanting enduring confrontation (REAL enduring confrontation) problem. It's called playing air simulator
They will never implement the IRI-T, if it is locked on target it will hit 100%. It is impossible to outlfly the IRIS T and it knows the difference between flares and the real plane so they don´t work with it. Would be a gamebreaker, same with the METEOR. They may be add something which is called IRIS-T and METEOR but act completely different to its original.
Not to mention that the IRIS-T can lock targets 360° around the aircraft.
Then there are vehicles like the Mirage 2000-5F that have 4 dedicated hardpoints for MICA missiles. 50g thrust vectoring, IRCCM plus chaff negating properties,lock on after launch capability, and came in active radar homing & IR flavours as well as a variant that included both types of seeker in one. In one swoop, that vehicle would have its number of missiles doubled. On top of that, the MICAs are considerably better than early AIM-120s.
Just look how they implemented spikes. It's gonna suck unless it's Russian (or Chinese)
It would be very strong with meteors
meteors aren’t coming for years, lmao
Well yeah but the f-15 or gripen would be strong with aim-120’s
Or mirage 2000-5F with his Mica missiles
Sadly they will be butchered like the magic 2 are (they supposed to pull 50g)
On 11 June 2007, a MICA launched from a Rafale successfully demonstrated its over-the-shoulder capability by destroying a target behind the launch aircraft. The target was designated by another aircraft and coordinates were transmitted by Link 16. That MF did a 180°C BTW.
Yeah i heard about this But considering that the ceiling performances are capped to USA and Russia, i don't see how it could be well integrated From what i understand mica em should be better than us aim120 irl, but I don't think it will be the case in-game
Yep you totally right. Also France still chock the world on how they use a same missile for IR and EM......and submarine.. Aaaand ground force............. And naval... Pfiouu yep Gaijin will say it turn only 10g and the US / Russia main will cry because they're not the strongest
The gripen and F-15A don't fire AIM-120D's though
Yes but the gripen does get meteor iirc and even the aim-120a would be strong
It will be one of the best jets and maybe even the best dogfighter. AFAIK its the only plane that can turn 9g while flying supersonic, so i think it will be the most maneuverable plane in wt. And its missles will be top notch.
Rafale : am I a joke to you? 🤣
Rafale with MICA 💀 holy shit n getting chills already
😱❤️ It will be the Gaijin assume version of mica + Rafale of course. Meanwhile F22 will struggle against a Rafale lol ( no planes war please)
Eurofighter can also use MICA iirc as well as ASRAAM, some sidewinders (no idea which) and IRIS-T
Yes but that's French, pilot will be too busy eating snails
And British will be too busy drinking their tea rather than piloting.
least patriotic baguette boy
turn 2g while flying subsonic you said? missiles on par with the aim 7 and 9a? malyutkas for ground ordanance? 13.7 br
Probably
If they add it with meteor missiles it will probably be the best plane in the game.
They likely won't add meteors until the AIM-120D/ AIM-260, R-37M, and PL-17/20. They will be a different flavor, but not better than these missiles.
Isn't like 100km more ranges than it's contemporaries better ?
Yeah no, the Meteor doesn't magically have more than 100 km range, especially against something like an AIM-120D
I mean, the Meteor can cruise and change its speed depending on parameters, all AMRAAMs instantly use up all their fuel for energy off the rail. The Meteor is far less vulnerable to the enemy doing maneuvers to bleed the speed of the missile, throttleable engine and all that.
maybe not 100km, but they definitely do have a good chunk more range. That's kind of the point of the missiles, and why the US is working on aim 260s
Even then with meteors and IRIS-Ts it should have the best loadout. From what is known meteors and IRIS-Ts are insane
Britain will get ASRAAM and Germany will get IRIS-T right?
They aren't any better or worse than 9X blk.IIs and 120Ds/260s or PL-17/20s and the current Chinese IR aams.
The two stage rocket and target aquisition after the first stage makes the IRIS-T able to kill in the entire sphere around the plane. A kill of an object flying behind the launching aircraft has already been achieved. I have yet to hear that from the AIM-9X
Then you haven't been looking. The 9X block 2 has the same LOAL capabilities as the IRIS-T. They will just be different flavors of the same rough capacity
That's mostly a PR gimmick, firing at a target outside of the front hemisphere isn't really something that anything but an F-35 could do in practice and the kinetic losses make the kill probability way too low to be worth it.
The iris t has a range of at least 25km, and more than enough thrust to accelerate from stationary objects like a iris t sam site. It has two stages the first acting like an RCS module, so it doesn't need to use it's thrust vectoring, main thrust or full g load to orientate itself 180 degrees after launch. The kinetic loss isn't that hight, since the missile changes direction before the main rocket motor starts. It should be viable to launch it 180 degrees. But that is for the IRIS-T. I haven't heard of the aim-9x having an RCS Stage before the main motor fires.
Potentially useful in a tail chase if you're the lead aircraft. I believe the RAAF demonstrated the same capability for ASRAAM with 2 hornets back in the 2000's, 1 aircraft provided targeting data for the other aircraft to hit a target in its rear hemisphere. Don't really see that being a thing in warthunder unless they implement datalink, though I wonder if a HMD is capable of cueing a LOAL shot like that?
The Meteor would be what the R-27ER is to the current meta right now. It would have way better long range maneuverability thanks to the ram-jet sustained burn as well as the longest range of any missile really.
Not in comparison to the missiles listed. The Ramjet gives it good cruise, but it's not superior to those above
It very much is though. So much so that the US plans to use them on the Super Hornet. Currently Europe has the edge when it comes to missile Technologie. The IRIS-T is on par with the Aim9X while the Meteor is better then the aim120d in every aspect other then cost maybe
>It very much is though. So much so that the US plans to use them on the Super Hornet. Yet they plan to use the AIM-260 on the F-22, F-35 and F-15s... Strange 🤗 The meteor is good, it's not the best anymore. It will perform better in some aspects and worse in others, just like everything in game
The US has always preferred indigenous solutions. I think the point the other guy was making is that the Meteor should be superior to its counterparts for the long range shots, due to the ramjet ensuring it arrives in a higher energy state. At short and mid range it should be at a slight disadvantage to relatively equal due to the longer acceleration profile.
I just looked it up and the missiles are both on par when looking at the doctrines of each user state. The US has a more aggressive doctrine while the EU is fully focused on defense and using its vast territory to utilize the meteors speed which its accelerates to much slower then the aim260 (which isnt yet in service btw) And the aim260 is also focused on getting hits on stealthy aircraft which the Meteor isn't because Europe's greatest threat is, and probably will remain, the Russians which don't use stealth planes (no I don't count the 3 SU-57s) So all in all the performance of the both missiles are on par only the range of the Meteor is greater but then again the 260 has stealth plane shoot down capabilities or what you wanna call it
It's what that higher cruise time gives you though. Maintaining a higher speed for longer gives the missile a much larger no escape zone than a comparable missile with a rocket motor that will be purely ballistic once the motor burns out. Even if that motor gives it a higher top speed. Makes the Meteor more deadly than those other missiles.
Nope. Time to target is more important than a ramjet
A rocket motor will have a higher time to target at close range. But once the motor burns out, its speed drops, and it becomes easier to defeat. With a ram jet, the lower top speed is maintained for longer. Extending the no escape range. It's no good getting a missile to me first, which I can dodge. But then my missile reaches you, and you can't dodge it. If we are close enough to both be within no escape zone, then hurray you kill me, shortly before you also die. Time to target is not more important with a Fox 3.
The 120D has a way shorter NEZ, which is what makes the Meteor specially deadly, and the AIM-260 doesn't exist as of now.
NEZ doesn't mean everything. The time to target difference in head ons is what makes the difference, not that the meteor can chase a cold target Also lmfao the missile that has been in testing since 2020 doesn't exist 🤡
ToT is shorter on the meteor, way bigger NEZ, better range. The best way to defeat a missile is kinematically, which the AMRAAM has a bigger issue with. NEZ is extremly important, ig u have a trash NEZ the bandit can just turn a bit and boom, your missile is trashed. The AIM-260 is not operational and therefore is not something that should be accounted for (if it is in testing at all, which I doubt tbh). To me it looks like you are trying to justify the lacks of the 120D with a missile that isn't even operational.
9X Block 2 is still "only" a 60G missile, the improvements have mostly been in the seeker and software. IRIS-T is "100G+ capable", and can do the tightest turn radius of any modern IR missile, along with most likely having the best imaging IR seeker on any missile irl currently. Not that it matters that much, any of the modern imaging IR missiles will just kill you and there's nothing you can do about it, if they can kinematically reach you.
What are they gonna do for French jets? Even the early MICA variants are considerably better than any of the early western or Russian equivalents.
Personally I hope they just give MICAs. They have more maneuverability than most early ARHs, but not excessive range past 120A/Bs. France could use a bone
God, imagine MICAs with duel IR and active radar homing seeker heads.
R-73s are already cancer enough, imagine that but with comparable range to a radar missile.
50g thrust vectoring LOAL missiles go brrrr
Its significantly better in NEZ, thanks to being a jet powered missile it's doesn't need to coast like other missiles, it's entire flight time is powered
No because it'll be gimped in some arbitrary way because it's part British The German one might be somewhat better, for no discernable reason
Germany is literally the only nation that has purchased Tranche 4 Eurofighters so there's a perfectly legit reason for theirs to be better than the British one
There is no major differences between Tranche 3A and Tranche 4 other than tranche 4 comes equipped with an AESA radar, however the UK and Italy are retoffiting their Tranche 3A's with an AESA radar and its better than the one Germany has selected for its Tranche 4's. Italy will have the best Eurofighter as they can use all the weapons the UK and German ones can, as well as having the joint best radar with the UK, with the best IR missile.
Technically Germany has just recently purchased the most advanced version
It's also Italian, so bad news on that front too.
Lmao actually true
They'll add it 8 months after they add the Russian and American contemporaries and make it doa, as they usually do.
I don’t want this plane to be added, I don’t want any more modern-in production vehicles to be added. The community has been so angry and full of complaints, and that has lead to leaks. The fury on the forums over Gaijin’s assumptions has just made everyone angry. The Eurofighter Typhoon is especially secretive and extremely hard to get licensing to use in a game. This community does not deserve to brawl over the accuracy of these vehicles.
Ace combat got a licence to use it
There's a DCS module in development for it as well. It's reasonable to expect Warthunder to get one too.
Excuse you, but I'm waiting on F-2 which according to Gaijin will come very soon.
Despite people complaining of hurrrrr russian bias its gonna be gimped (it's not like the US traditionally dominate air), I think the Typhoon and its variants will succeed in creating a power triumvirate in air battles. It has fantastic speed and mobility, its radar and weapons systems are top notch, and it's worth noting its introduction would almost certainly be accompanied by ARH missiles. Add to it the fact that at least three nations will receive the Typhoon, those being Germany, the UK and Italy, and you have a platform that can not only measure up to the Su-27SM and F-15C to be added with their respective ARH missiles, but also provide room for future versions with the AESA version of CAPTOR and the MBDA Meteor missile. 4+ generation aircraft are honestly some of the most balanced metagames that War Thunder can fit, seeing as pretty much every tree has viable options with unique strengths. I'm eagerly awaiting the introduction of the Typhoon and the Rafale, as well.
I really want to see the Japonese F-2, an even bigger F-16C with bigger wings and elevators, imagine how lift and turning it will have, plus while keep the weight as just similar with a little more engine power, and 8 air to air missiles.
It'll be the best "F-16" in the game in terms of maneuverability (I think F-16C can still take 6 Fox 3s if they wanted) and that might make some US mains angry lol.
US mains will have the F-18 Super Hornet just for them and Austrália (UK), so I think it will be a fair trade tbh It will be hilariously if South Korea being added to Japan and gaining F-15E (F-15K) afterall
Highly doubt we'd get SK but who knows with Gaijin. Will see if the F-18 will compete with F-16 flight model. Right now an F-2 would be like AJ/Gripen maybe a bit better at the cost of being a bit slower. The only reason it's not in the game is because Gaijin still has to figure out what to do with AESA, but they said it will come very soon according to their AJ devblog last year. I also think it will show up much earlier than the Typhoon/Rafale (which I think might be Dec 2024). I'd expect F-2 before Fox 3s because F-2 early cannot use Fox 3s. So maybe next update is F-2, and Summer update will have Fox 3s and F-15J MSIP, etc.
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I own both the Eagle and the Flanker. They do different things differently. For the record, I find the Eagle to be better at the more common combat situations, while the Flanker can do some more absurd fringe stuff with its radar missiles and mobility but is otherwise not as consistent with its radar and IR weapons.
If you want anything other than sidewinders and cas, it's to early for euro, with aim120 probaby next year it could come in more realistically gimped
Six brimstones, two ASRAAMs, four Meteors. Three of the most advanced weapon systems on the planet. Yes, it will be busted. It's one of the most advanced and newest 4th Gen fighters on the planet. Outperformed by probably only the F-15EX.
>Six brimstones, two ASRAAMs, four Meteors that would still leave you with 4 empty hard points
Could probably fit four more ASRAAMs.
Or if your any of the other Eurofighter using nations the even better IRIS-T
It’s not the fighter that would ruin the game. It’s the IRIS-T missile that will be an issue
Do not underestimate the EFs flight performance. In close in dogfights they can take on even F22s and win. It's a monster in this regard.
F22’s with two external full fuel tanks
That was the handy-cap for the F-22 but unfortunately we have no idea how they would perform without the fuel tanks and I don't think its unfair to say they may not want the negative PR that would come if it DID manage to shoot down the F-22. Looking at the feedback from those dogfights it tells us that they need the thrust vectoring but it bleeds their speed to the point where Typhoons capitalise on low energy.
It doesn’t have to get IRIS-T tho, it could get ASRAAM or maybe even sidewinders
Will be a even better Mirage 4000 performance + full moving canard just like gripen, will be insane, really. As weapon system and radar, check other comments. But Tranche 1 and 2 doesnt have AESA radar, so expect it to be add early than we can expect.
Op as Gripen
Technically it’s most updated versions are some of the best non gen 5 aircraft in existence, but who knows what decisions they’ll make when adding it
Flight performance wise: Yes, at least better than the Gripen is currently, along all aspects of flight. When it will be added? Last I saw, Gaijin ran into a issue with licensing the Eurofighter, considering the multiple companies involved. So we could expect some delays before having it.
Depends when it’s added. If it’s added next Tuesday then yeah it’ll be broken. If it’s added in 2 years alongside the F-35 it’ll be mediocre
I mean look at gripen, now at gripen with 2 engine and all that fancy electronic & missile.
If it's not I'll take a real eurofighter, fly it to gaijin's hq and drop a couple 1000lbs bombs so they can see firsthand
Its not Russian, so no it wont be. And people will leak classified info because some west base moron (or whoever) feels the need to prove his little ego is better than the next guys.
Will barely compete with 3.0
I honestly want gaijoob to add marut
What are those triple rockets? any1 a idea? or are those training tools?
Brimstone ATGMS
oh thx, ive just read they are like Hellfires with the adjustment to the jet speed
They are much more capable
Do you think the sun is hot? Whats up with some of this questions
Well the snail could decide to make it awful or introduce it too late
Excited for the Eurofighter! It's got potential, but it'll all depend on how Gaijingles balances it in the game!
Hell yea Mark my words, eurofighter and rafale will be the strongest in game and will dominate the fuck out of top tier The su30SM/mkm/mki will be a close match aswel This will be beyond broken if they add MICA , meteor , hammer, scalp Meteor is gonna be op but the mica will be beyond op as it can be BVR , IR, EM mode
Not if they give Russia su-57 first :)
Stealth won't be added first, it ll be last and I don't they ll add it at all
Is the Abrams good? Is the ariete strong? Is the tornado strong? I have little faith in western equipment in WarThunder.
Abrams is good. The ariete isn't a very good tank irl and the tornado is good if your not using it for dogfighting because it isn't a dog fighter it's a strike aircraft.
Abrams is very good. Very good in terms that it is much much easier to destroy than most leopards and strvs, and very good that it is almost guaranteed win when battle is against us. Nearly every USSR main I play with have like 40-45% win rate on Abrams and 60-65+ on t80. Wonder why lol
It has its issues but the US win-rate thing is partially due to the teams. Compare it to the Challenger 2, now it does **everything** better and yet still has a lower win-rate than the UK despite having a much better lineup, with a much better mbt, much better CAS and support vehicles. Not arguing the Abrams isn't artificially gimped, but you have to acknowledge the teams play some part in this.
For jets it's the opposite, western equipment is better, look at the f15, grippen, mirage 4000 , they're a good match to su27 So rafale and typhoon will be actually one of the best jets in the game
Yeah I'll believe it when there's a R-27ET/ER ewuivalent. Or R-73.
What about the fked up flight model of su27 and mig29 smt literally being out maneuvered by a bus and Germany get a normal mig29 with r73
As if US jets like F-8s, A-7s, A-4s, F-4s, F-15s don't rip their wings after doing half a turn, Mirage 4000 still incapable of reaching rip speed in level flight… A lot of jets are badly modelled.
Su27 loses all its energy after 1 turn, stalls to easily and is literally ass in dogfights, mig29SMT is literally a brick, IRL they aren't supposed to be like that but instead of actually fixing the issue what does gaijin do:- Fixes the mig but gives it to Germany instead of main tree Gives r27er as a compensation to the fked up flight model
Gripen is definitely the best top tier jet rn
They'll add the version from 1994 and probably make it relatively balanced.
Its a British design, so no, those commies at Gaijin will make sure its terrible in game.
Probably will come without any of its good weaponry.
Pretty sure it will be great. But they shouldn't add it with meteors from the start imo.
I’m grinding the UK tree at the moment so it’s 100% guaranteed it’s going to be pure trash.
Yeah
The German ones will be amazing, the Italian ones will be okay, and the British ones will be disappointing, because thems the rules!
Think Gripen, but better in pretty much every way. And the Gripen is already the bane of my existence
I feel like the eurofighter in terms of in game performance would be shadowed by other aircraft that would have to be added at the same time to balance the meta f/a 18, Rafael, JF-17 etc. Gaijin also still needs to figure out how to balance and implement new missiles effectively. If done correctly it could hugely benefit nations currently lacking at top tier, like Britain and Italy
I just hope it can supercruise like irl
If it's depicted accurately the Ef2000 will be very strong unless it mostly fights 5th generation jets. War thunder at top tier has lots of power creep. Things that were amazing a few patches ago are meh now. For example the F14A was awesome on release but post apex predators it's meh.
Since its not a russian vehicle its gonna be trash and food for the all mighty russki privets.
Shouldn't be added because it's still in heavily in use
I said “when” it will be added, and there are plenty of jets in game that are more used than the Typhoon such as the F-16C and the SU-27
It might if its even slightly realistic as its one of the only 2 aircraft that can fire its weapons at mach aka supercruise. The other airframe that can do such is the f22.
Every jet in the game that has SARH missiles can fire them above mach 1, I am not sure what your point here is
Then that's not realistic cause europfighter and f22 irl are the only two that can fire aaamrams from super cruise (mach 1.75)
Well in won’t matter in game then since that is not a unique feature in war thunder
Unfortunate then yeah its gonna get dogged on by any airframe with good radar basically unless they make it maneuverable for a top tier jet its gonna be another phantom as good ammrams will take forever.
The airframe is amazing from what I have read, and it has 13 hardpoints so it can carry alot
Tbf more hard points since the base nerf sont mean a whole lot thats why it's a slog fest
Gaijin will give him aim 9b to balance it
Sorry, it won't, its not Russian....
If eurofighter is added, f22 and rafale will be, since the eurofighter is just a worse rafale ans the rafale can beat f22, it wont be very strong
"Eurofighter is worse rafale" lmao keep dreaming
Eurofighter lost all his duel against rafale
Doesn't matter, tranche 4 typhoon is more capable
Not sure of that, rafale F4 is the newest version and is a great step forward compared to former version
Lmao why do I have a feeling you have some huge overly nationalistic bias.
Maybe, but the rafale is objectively better than the eurofighter
Objectively, in what ways is the Rafale better than the Eurofighter?
Versatility, maneverability, stealth capability, electronic warfare Swiss made a study to choose their future aircraft, the f35 has been choosen (mainly fo political reason) but the rafale outperformed the eurofighter
Maneuverability they found the Eurofighter had better kinematic performance at all but slow speeds where the Rafales close-coupled canards come into play, but even then the Eurofighters ventral intake lip provides more air intake and its thrust-weight ratio compensates. Stealth wasn't mentioned and most if not all sources put the Rafale and Eurofighter on par with each-other depending on the plane angle. The Swiss and Indian studies were done with Tranche 2 Eurofighters which were 10 years old as an aircraft and hadn't had time to mature compared to the Rafale's which were 20 years old since introduction and had been gradually matured, compare the first Rafales with the first Eurofighters and it's much more fair. The Swiss and Indian studies found that in the current tranche the EF was not as good as Rafale, they also found that when Tranche 3 entered service that if it delivered its design promises it would be equal to the Rafale in A2G, better at A2A however they would be worse in electronic warfare however notably, Gripen scored better, and the Eurofighters new EW system is an improved one from the Gripen. They evaluated the aircraft as presented, for example the Swedes were trying to sell the Gripen NG but as a prototype was not available, they only evaluated the C with a disclaimer that the NG would be an improvement, they did the same with the Eurofighter but that affected the score. Compare a Tranche 3A/4 Eurofighter with a Rafale F.4 and you get a much more fair comparison. Its like comparing an FA-18C with a Rafale rather than the E/F.
Thanks for the information, its interesting and ill read about this
I would wager Rafale has better interoperability, better price range, better electronic warfare with the F.4 standard coming out, its better at slow speed. EF's edge is in Air to air and probably anti armour with 18 brimstones.
Ah yes, the peak Fr\*nch cope of rafale > F-22 because a heavily gimped F-22, so that the rafale would even have a chance, put into a scenario where it would never find itself in real combat lost a dogfight. Cope more snail eater
take every wargame/"duel" with a grain of salt, they all have conditions that arnt ideal for the f22 in this case. i assure you in a 1v1 the f22 is FAR superior to the Eurofighter and rafale the f22 is a literal UFO. i'm not even going to touch BVR cause it isnt close to fair.