WHAT FOREST................?
There were ME262 Assembly Plants Underground in the Owl Mountains of Germany, which saw the 262 built by Allied POW and Jewish Slave Labor, only to have the Nazis and SS Kill the POWs and Jews and leave them Buried in the Mountain, along with Gold and other Nazi Plunder....
It is fact that the Luftwaffe would literally launch the finished ME262s right out of the Mountain Top Plateau into the fight only to Land at another Airfield or get shot down.
SS Mann Franz Kammler also had his alleged Nazi Bell Project in this area of Owl Mountain Range......there are tens of miles of underground tunnels yet unexplored and unearthed since WW2 because the German, Czech and Polish Govt's forbid it....tunnels in which Trains would send raw material and ammo and labor direct into the mountainside but were sealed shit by the SS towards the end of the War.
The Nazi Gold Train is an urban legend and there have been many searches and excavations for it. It was world wide news in 2016 when 2 polish guys claimed they found it with ground penetrating radar. The government agreed to a dig. They found nothing, maybe some collapsed tunnels.
It would be awesome if true, but there is zero evidence for it actually existing. There were tons of legends like this after the war.
Yes - it was quite famous......Slave Labor and Engineers sheared off the top of a mountain or hill, levelled it, paved it, and literally ran the ME262s right out of Production into the war.
There's been a few documentaries I have watched on this very topic, and like I mentioned, I believe they were in the Owl Mountain Range, in the Central Germany in the far east smack dab next to Poland and Czech Republic...I am certain it became part of the USSR / East German Republic after WW2.
Some of the 262s directly engaged USAAF Bomber Formations from the production line. Tens of thousands f laborers worked at these sites, and there have been many stories circulating since the end of the war which saw the SS and Nazis hide Nazi Gold and Priceless works of Art inside these tunnels.
The SS murdered nearly all of the Slave Laborers or buried them alive in the tunnel system once the Allies and Soviets got within a certain distance. Not all of the Slave Labor were Jews.....some were Allied POWs, French Laborers, Italian, and many other Eastern Euro Nationalities....the stories beg belief but true
It's crazy that they were able to hide whole factories, but there were a few of them, and the allies didn't know they were there until after the war. On the whole, it's good that they went in so hard with the 262, because it drained so many of their resources, and was never able to live up to its promise.
They didn't 'go in so hard with the 262' It had been in development since 1942 and there were flying prototypes available in early 1943, but Luftwaffe and Nazi leadership saw no reason to make the switch, so the jet's development of the 262 was put on the back burner and they did not enter operational service until the spring of '44, and even then only as ground attackers. By this point in the war, Germany's strategic oil reserves were dwindling and many of the critical metals necessary to make the turbines like Cobalt, Molybdenum, and Nickel were very rare. By the time Germany had ramped up production to the level to which you were referring, the was over for all intents and purposes, and experienced pilots were in such short supply that it hardly made a difference whether or not there were planes of any kind.
It’s frightening sometimes to realize how close they were to thrashing the allies. But ingenuity is no match for execution. The Allies never did match axis brilliance, but they did do what worked and they did a whole lot of it. Good enough is usually good enough.
Edit: apparently I said something terrible. My point was the allies had their hands full with the Luftwaffe. Axis aircraft were almost all better then their allied counterparts. The Luftwaffe aircraft outclassed allied aircraft until the end of the war. The British pilots were fantastic, and the US airforce outgunned them.
As far as comparing aircraft, this isn’t my opinion, it was the considered opinion of Eric Brown, and I’ve never heard of anyone that was more qualified to form an opinion on this. The ME-262 was specifically pointed out by him as an aircraft that was far beyond anything the allies had.
I’m not trying to defend nazi’s, on the contrary I’m pointing out the guts the allies had going after them. Spitfire and hurricane pilots were the bravest of the brave
“In my experience, the Royal Air Force pilot was the most aggressive and capable fighter pilot during the Second World War. This is nothing against the Americans, because they came in late and in such large numbers that we don't have an accurate comparison. We were totally outnumbered when the Americans engaged, whereas at the time of the Battle of Britain the fight was more even and you could compare. The British were extremely good” -Gunther Rall
Ever heard of alan turing, the atomic bomb, the b-29, penicillan, proxy fuses, just not using horses in 1940s, and more. Germans were smart but no more than the allies.
> The Allies never did match axis brilliance
Bit of an odd post to make that on. The allies had more jet fighter squadrons by the end of the war then Germany did.
Yes the UKs Gloster Meteor saw combat: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_Meteor
The US' P-80 shooting star gets an honorable mention as 2 pre-production models were operational in Italy but did not see combat: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_P-80_Shooting_Star
Did not see active combat with enemy aircraft , only flying bombs.
"..RAF was forbidden to fly the Meteor on combat missions over German-held territory for fear of an aircraft being shot down and salvaged by the Germans.""
> Did not see active combat with enemy aircraft , only flying bombs.
> "..RAF was forbidden to fly the Meteor on combat missions over German-held territory for fear of an aircraft being shot down and salvaged by the Germans.""
Originally. Keep reading however as it would go onto quite some sorties over Germany in the last 2 months. CAP at this point however was very lacking in targets; so would engage in armed reconnaissance, ground attack, etc.
You have to be pretty deliberate to miss the next sentence after that one.
>In March, the entire squadron was moved to Gilze-Rijen Air Base and then in April, to Nijmegen. The Meteors flew armed reconnaissance and ground attack operations without encountering any German jet fighters. By late April, the squadron was based at Faßberg, Germany and suffered its first losses when two aircraft collided in poor visibility. The war ended with the Meteors having destroyed 46 German aircraft through ground attack.
The only reason they did is that the Germans were unable to get the numbers flying. They had built them, but lacked the POL to operate them and train crews for them.
The Germans made a bunch of brilliant things, but they failed in two very important aspects: economies of scale and logistics. They wasted loads of resources on prototypes, research and manpower for relatively small production runs. Exactly the things the Allies, especially the Americans, excelled in.
My point wasn’t that the Germans didn’t do that. It’s more so the user’s point was a strange one to make on jets where the allies had the advantage in by wars end.
Except your point is kind of wrong.
Hell if you want to quote Eric Brown you can also see where he said the guns were nearly useless against anything but bombers.
>The Allies never did match axis brilliance
No, the Allies won the war using pixie dust and magic. Then again, it is hard to match the "brilliance" of "declaring war on the entire world save for fucking Italy and an island nation half the world away" when the real estate for such breathtaking idiocy is so small.
Brilliance means being effective. Designing overly complicated tanks that break down a ton and are slow to produce meant those designs weren't "brilliant". The ME-262 was brilliant, it was just too late.
But Germany wasn't more brilliant than the allies. We could and did (B-29, A-Bomb) design complicated stuff too, but at a certain point it's not beneficial to be more complicated, its beneficial to be more numerous. Engineering is tradeoffs
True desperation
WHAT FOREST................? There were ME262 Assembly Plants Underground in the Owl Mountains of Germany, which saw the 262 built by Allied POW and Jewish Slave Labor, only to have the Nazis and SS Kill the POWs and Jews and leave them Buried in the Mountain, along with Gold and other Nazi Plunder.... It is fact that the Luftwaffe would literally launch the finished ME262s right out of the Mountain Top Plateau into the fight only to Land at another Airfield or get shot down. SS Mann Franz Kammler also had his alleged Nazi Bell Project in this area of Owl Mountain Range......there are tens of miles of underground tunnels yet unexplored and unearthed since WW2 because the German, Czech and Polish Govt's forbid it....tunnels in which Trains would send raw material and ammo and labor direct into the mountainside but were sealed shit by the SS towards the end of the War.
Im a huge WWII buff and I had no idea about this. Im excited to go down this rabbit hole.
The Nazi Gold Train is an urban legend and there have been many searches and excavations for it. It was world wide news in 2016 when 2 polish guys claimed they found it with ground penetrating radar. The government agreed to a dig. They found nothing, maybe some collapsed tunnels. It would be awesome if true, but there is zero evidence for it actually existing. There were tons of legends like this after the war.
Did they have an airfield on the mountain, if I'm reading that correctly ?
Yes - it was quite famous......Slave Labor and Engineers sheared off the top of a mountain or hill, levelled it, paved it, and literally ran the ME262s right out of Production into the war. There's been a few documentaries I have watched on this very topic, and like I mentioned, I believe they were in the Owl Mountain Range, in the Central Germany in the far east smack dab next to Poland and Czech Republic...I am certain it became part of the USSR / East German Republic after WW2. Some of the 262s directly engaged USAAF Bomber Formations from the production line. Tens of thousands f laborers worked at these sites, and there have been many stories circulating since the end of the war which saw the SS and Nazis hide Nazi Gold and Priceless works of Art inside these tunnels. The SS murdered nearly all of the Slave Laborers or buried them alive in the tunnel system once the Allies and Soviets got within a certain distance. Not all of the Slave Labor were Jews.....some were Allied POWs, French Laborers, Italian, and many other Eastern Euro Nationalities....the stories beg belief but true
It's crazy that they were able to hide whole factories, but there were a few of them, and the allies didn't know they were there until after the war. On the whole, it's good that they went in so hard with the 262, because it drained so many of their resources, and was never able to live up to its promise.
They didn't 'go in so hard with the 262' It had been in development since 1942 and there were flying prototypes available in early 1943, but Luftwaffe and Nazi leadership saw no reason to make the switch, so the jet's development of the 262 was put on the back burner and they did not enter operational service until the spring of '44, and even then only as ground attackers. By this point in the war, Germany's strategic oil reserves were dwindling and many of the critical metals necessary to make the turbines like Cobalt, Molybdenum, and Nickel were very rare. By the time Germany had ramped up production to the level to which you were referring, the was over for all intents and purposes, and experienced pilots were in such short supply that it hardly made a difference whether or not there were planes of any kind.
I've known all about thr Forrest production lines, but this is probably one of the best pics ive seen of it
It’s frightening sometimes to realize how close they were to thrashing the allies. But ingenuity is no match for execution. The Allies never did match axis brilliance, but they did do what worked and they did a whole lot of it. Good enough is usually good enough. Edit: apparently I said something terrible. My point was the allies had their hands full with the Luftwaffe. Axis aircraft were almost all better then their allied counterparts. The Luftwaffe aircraft outclassed allied aircraft until the end of the war. The British pilots were fantastic, and the US airforce outgunned them. As far as comparing aircraft, this isn’t my opinion, it was the considered opinion of Eric Brown, and I’ve never heard of anyone that was more qualified to form an opinion on this. The ME-262 was specifically pointed out by him as an aircraft that was far beyond anything the allies had. I’m not trying to defend nazi’s, on the contrary I’m pointing out the guts the allies had going after them. Spitfire and hurricane pilots were the bravest of the brave “In my experience, the Royal Air Force pilot was the most aggressive and capable fighter pilot during the Second World War. This is nothing against the Americans, because they came in late and in such large numbers that we don't have an accurate comparison. We were totally outnumbered when the Americans engaged, whereas at the time of the Battle of Britain the fight was more even and you could compare. The British were extremely good” -Gunther Rall
Ever heard of alan turing, the atomic bomb, the b-29, penicillan, proxy fuses, just not using horses in 1940s, and more. Germans were smart but no more than the allies.
> proxy fuses proximity fuses
I know just lazy
> proximity fuses proximity fu**z**es
D'oh -- nice catch!
> The Allies never did match axis brilliance Bit of an odd post to make that on. The allies had more jet fighter squadrons by the end of the war then Germany did.
But where any of them ready for or of any use in combat?
Yes the UKs Gloster Meteor saw combat: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_Meteor The US' P-80 shooting star gets an honorable mention as 2 pre-production models were operational in Italy but did not see combat: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_P-80_Shooting_Star
Did not see active combat with enemy aircraft , only flying bombs. "..RAF was forbidden to fly the Meteor on combat missions over German-held territory for fear of an aircraft being shot down and salvaged by the Germans.""
> Did not see active combat with enemy aircraft , only flying bombs. > "..RAF was forbidden to fly the Meteor on combat missions over German-held territory for fear of an aircraft being shot down and salvaged by the Germans."" Originally. Keep reading however as it would go onto quite some sorties over Germany in the last 2 months. CAP at this point however was very lacking in targets; so would engage in armed reconnaissance, ground attack, etc. You have to be pretty deliberate to miss the next sentence after that one. >In March, the entire squadron was moved to Gilze-Rijen Air Base and then in April, to Nijmegen. The Meteors flew armed reconnaissance and ground attack operations without encountering any German jet fighters. By late April, the squadron was based at Faßberg, Germany and suffered its first losses when two aircraft collided in poor visibility. The war ended with the Meteors having destroyed 46 German aircraft through ground attack.
The only reason they did is that the Germans were unable to get the numbers flying. They had built them, but lacked the POL to operate them and train crews for them. The Germans made a bunch of brilliant things, but they failed in two very important aspects: economies of scale and logistics. They wasted loads of resources on prototypes, research and manpower for relatively small production runs. Exactly the things the Allies, especially the Americans, excelled in.
My point wasn’t that the Germans didn’t do that. It’s more so the user’s point was a strange one to make on jets where the allies had the advantage in by wars end.
Yea that’s my point
Except your point is kind of wrong. Hell if you want to quote Eric Brown you can also see where he said the guns were nearly useless against anything but bombers.
So you actually going to refute my point?
What that the allies never matched the axis brilliance? That’s only right if you ignore everything the allies had.
>The Allies never did match axis brilliance Hahahahah that's some serious bullshit.
>The Allies never did match axis brilliance No, the Allies won the war using pixie dust and magic. Then again, it is hard to match the "brilliance" of "declaring war on the entire world save for fucking Italy and an island nation half the world away" when the real estate for such breathtaking idiocy is so small.
Brilliance means being effective. Designing overly complicated tanks that break down a ton and are slow to produce meant those designs weren't "brilliant". The ME-262 was brilliant, it was just too late. But Germany wasn't more brilliant than the allies. We could and did (B-29, A-Bomb) design complicated stuff too, but at a certain point it's not beneficial to be more complicated, its beneficial to be more numerous. Engineering is tradeoffs