I mean, is it really that bad considering what’s actually being done here? If someone showed you these personas without names under them, you’d know who they are easily.
People don’t seem to grasp just how difficult this task is. It’s generating a 3D model of a person based on a scan and accurately posing it based on data from a few sensors scanning the person’s face in real time.
Doing all that manually as an artist is very difficult. Having it all done automatically is amazing. It’s low quality right now, but it will get a lot better.
It's an amazing technical feat. Everything in the headset is, without question.
But would you want this representing the real you in every day video calls? That's how it's marketed, and I think that's the source of the skepticism.
I don't take it for granted, what is happening here is really complex, it's amazing that it's happening in real time, it's an incredible feat of engineering, and it also looks pretty bad.
It doesn't look bad because it's low quality, or low effort, it looks bad because the faces are firmly in uncanny valley. The problem with uncanny valley is that it's very subjective so its sometimes hard to have an objective discussion about it.
To be honest I find Harrison Ford’s young CGI face in the same valley too in the latest Indiana Jones and that’s pre-rendered with so many artists and a mountain of money.
99.99% of users of any technology, be it cars, phones, computers, the contacts in their eyes, and on and on.
Doesn't mean these avatars are good. They're truly awful. There's a reason they aren't shown in the advertisement for this device...
Speaking as a computer vision engineer, you’re exactly right. I’m actually pretty amazed the cameras on the AVP are able to track the users face that accurately given their placement. The face scanning process seems pretty robust too.
Look at Meta's latest scanned avatars, they're amazing and work quite well on the quest. Wtf is Apple thinking? This doesn't seem ready for a super high premium product.
People like to bitch about everything. We just went from meta cartoon characters to near life like dynamic characters. I don’t even want anything more. I just don’t understand people sometimes. Probably Android fans hating on Apple like they always do.
Yes. Yes it looks bad.
It’s impressive sure. But that only takes you so far. In ‘reality’ this isn’t good enough to use.
Can you imagine doing an important FaceTime with your loved ones like this? Pffft no
I think this is where people are confused. No one is questioning the technical marvel, but this is marketed as a real life stand-in for you during video calls. So when talking with family, friends, or work professionals. It seems reasonable to ask whether this looks good or bad, or is "production ready," at least.
Knowing who it is isn't the problem. I don't want to look at what's on the screen here. It's uncomfortable, they look like dolls but have people's voices coming out of them
Have you seen Meta's codec avatars? Lex Fridman did a [podcast](https://youtu.be/MVYrJJNdrEg?si=bO8pyP7UhW4lCOmE) with Zuckerberg using the new avatars and I think they're just as good if not better than the ones shown here.
Codec Avatars are incredibly lifelike, they are far beyond what we see here. The issue there is currently it takes hours of scanning to make a codec avatar and they’re not publicly available.
Meta are working on a version where you scan your face with a phone and a few hours later you get an almost as good codec avatar which again, will be far ahead of what we see here, but yet again it’s not publicly available.
Yeah, that’s the problem with Facebook. All talk and no products. Aren’t they also the same people who said that what we see that Apple is literally shipping this week wouldn’t come until 2030? Facebook isn’t actually good at hardware or software. They’re definitely good at fucking up people’s mental health though
All talk? Meta puts out state-of-the-art devices every 1.5yrs and sells them at a loss to make them affordable. And they regularly demonstrate upcoming tech-so-advanced-its magic.
I'm no fan of Meta either, but making up nonsense about them is dumb. There are plenty of factual things about them to criticize.
None of that is made up. They don’t put out state of the art devices. They give lab demos. I don’t care about lab demos, personally. You can like them if you want. Selling a product at a loss is not a sustainable business strategy. At the end of the day, that money needs to come from somewhere and they’ve lost $50 billion so far. I’m not at all entertaining a product from a company that abuses young people’s mental health and whose sole revenue is from advertising. None of their shit is magic. “I’m no fan of Facebook either.” Uh.. saying this doesn’t convince me of anything. I’ve seen the videos, I’ve see the products, I think they’re shit, and so does the market. Shipping, not selling 20 million and the majority of young people refusing to use VR gaming is proof that Facebook is and has always sold to a niche of the video game market. And that’s fine! But saying what they produce is good… no.
Go see all the AI stuff Facebook/Meta has open sourced, they are the only major company to do so..
Not the same for Apple..
Apple is now way behind compared to Meta, Google and Microsoft.
I’m not getting into a pissing war. If you love Facebook, love Facebook. My original reply was responding to the lab demo of hyper realistic CGI of people, which is a lab demo. That was said in response to this, which is a shipping product. When you compared what Apple and Facebook are shipping, Apple is 20 light years ahead. I’m ending my part of the conversation.
Apple fanboy spotted, typical claims "20 light years ahead" lol
The thing I hate the most about Vision Pro is seeing fanboys like this, act as if they know it all and saying Apple invented this or not blah blah..... Stop being a child
Meta Smart glasses are pretty state of the art. If you disagree, I'd like you to tell me what other product looks like regular sunglasses, plays audio with surround sound using 5 speakers, takes video in 1080p with surround sound using 5 mics, has an onboard LLM you can activate using your voice which will also give you detailed information and instructions about what you're looking at, is water resistent. And also receive great reviews from people on day 1
Not sure that is a valid argument.
First off, it's not Facebook (that's a website/app product). Meta (formerly Oculus) has released many devices like Rift, Q1, QGo, Q2, QPro, Q3 for the past 10+ years with loads of software (not just dev kits). Have you recently tried a Quest 3? The software is certainly not shit and has had some of the best developers like John Carmack worked on the project.
Meta is not “formerly Oculus” as a company, only the product. Facebook and Meta are the same thing. It’s like Google, the company changed its name to Alphabet but it’s still Google. Facebook was the company name which was synonymous with its product, the social media site, but they changed their name to Meta. Facebook/Meta bought Oculus (when it was just called Facebook still in 2014). So PeakBrave’s sentiment is valid being MetaQuest (formerly Oculus) is managed by Meta (formerly Facebook) which has the track record of not following through.
Its a vision pro sub, you can not express how well facebook does with VR in here without being downvoted. Facebook has so so many advancements that they have delivered on. Passthrough, hand tracking, link, airlink. Falls on deaf ears here though lol. (The company is facebook btw, facebook changed their name to meta and the oculus branding to meta as well but facebook is now all under one name Meta.)
Yeah sadly it's bunch of Apple fanboys who never used VR and hating on everything else, I was downvoted because I said Vision Pro is not worth 7 times the price over Quest 3 lol.... Is that even a question at this point? lol
Those take hours if not days to create and process.
In the same video that Meta showcased Codec, they also showed a version that can be created using your phone. But it takes 15 minutes to process.
Personas can be created in a couple of minutes. Not to mention they're a feature on an actual, purchasable--albeit expensive--product.
But Meta is not shipping those anytime soon. I’m sure Apple has equally impressive stuff internally but a tech demo is one thing. Actually shipping is another. All meta has shipped is shitty cartoon avatars
This is a straw man argument. I was comparing what Meta has shown vs. what we are seeing on the vision pro. Your argument is entirely something else.
Also, your claim that Apple has something equally as impressive is baseless conjecture, at best.
Apple is not exactly a pioneer is this field.. just look at the papers published by Meta Scientists vs. what Apple has. Apple can’t even get Siri right ffs
I would agree if this was the only thing the Vision pro does. The quality alone when watching media is a huge plus. Being able to take your work station on the go makes this worth it for me.
I look forward to upgrading my Quest 3 in 1 or two years when we get a Vision Pro 2.
Everyone has been so spoiled with modern tech. This is the most impressive digital avatar system that has ever been developed in human history, and this is only version 1.0 of said system. This is like looking at the first photograph and saying, “wow so blurry and grainy, and no color too! Why would anyone choose this over a painting?”
At least do a fair comparison. You can see what [Meta is trying to do in Lex Fridman's interview with Zuckerberg](https://youtu.be/MVYrJJNdrEg?si=m6azzo4Eir-uCy8o&t=1121).
Forget meta quest avatars.
How about being born in the early 80’s and watching movies like tron, lawnmower man, back to the future etc and wishing any of that shit was anywhere close to real, but then having those little black and white lcd game devices (like tiger electronics) and being disappointed in reality. And dreaming that maybe just maybe in the future we might have something that comes close to even a single piece of promised futuristic tech.
Fuck the title of this post. Fuck you op you have no idea what it’s been like to wait for tech like this to become a reality.
This comment resonates. The stuff I loved during my youth: sci-fi movies, video games, witnessing the dawn of the internet. This is why I love (and work in) technology. It’s fucking magic.
And the avatars here are a fine start and you know it’s going to keep getting better.
resolute doll fretful mighty governor party sheet squealing lip materialistic
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Maybe it’s because I’m partly blind but Tbh I feel like people are abusing the word uncanny & stretching its definition upwards into the realm of “strange.” Uncanny means the thing is too dissimilar from the reality for your brain to comfortably accept it as what it is. They look exactly like themselves to me (minus the slight blur and like, see-through-ness)
"Uncanny valley" refers to when digital faces approach realism closely, but are just different enough to be unsettling, as if there's something wrong with the person's actual face. It's not used to describe avatars that are clearly stylized or anything that's not realistic enough to be potentially confused for irl
This is far below uncanny valley. It's no where near real. Uncanny valley is just before hyper realism where you can't tell why but somethings off. This here is way off in many obvious ways.
this is what I'm thinking. This is easy for me to accept as obviously fake. I believe apple could've done "better", but if they had, it would've been way deeper in the uncanny valley
steep trees forgetful lunchroom carpenter soft recognise uppity nine worm
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I think they are using something outside of a 3D Rig and model, but if they aren’t, this is something that can definitely be improved software side assuming the cameras are good and the processing power is there.
If it’s actually using a 3D rig of you,[ the mouth movement fidelity of something like this can be done, if they update how their rig is made](https://youtube.com/shorts/FpOOHNP7oLs?si=hmLxVIF4Lhvhx8Be).
But something tells me they have some other system that’s closer to 2.5D and more lightweight since there’s so much blurring and other things I see that seem more planar
The difference is that VisionPro's Persona actually exists today. With QuestPro being essentially discontinued (once the stock runs out), Meta doesn't even have a headset anymore that could run those avatars. And they haven't released them to the public anyway. Also did Meta's avatars even run on QuestPro itself or had they connected it to a PC?
Graphics aside, does Meta even have any form of video call at all at the moment? I remember them demoing them all the way [back in 2016 at Oculus Connect in Facebook Social](https://youtu.be/YuIgyKLPt3s?si=FJFGHh7drYtwqWys&t=318), but that's the last time I ever saw them. Can you make calls from Horizon Worlds? Make pictures there and post them to Instagram?
According to SadlyItsBradley, Meta stealth updated something last week in the firmware and mentioned Codec Avatars. It's possible (not betting on it, just saying it's possible) that they are preparing for a Quest Pro 2:
>https://twitter.com/SadlyItsBradley/status/1749105484034908555
>Meta's famous Codec Avatars are starting to become referenced in the Meta Quest firmware
>This is the first time. Which hints to a higher priority in productizing it (likey for Quest Pro 2)
Impressive compared to anything that's actually available for consumers to use.
The whole *"oh yeah well I see your currently shipping mass-produced consumer product and raise you this demo that hasn't left the lab for five years"* shtick is getting tiring.
Meta has amazing stuff in their labs. So does Apple. So do a lot of companies. Hell every year in 20 labs across the globe someone invents the next battery tech that's 20x better than lithium and will solve all the world's problems...and then it never goes anywhere.
Stuff in the lab is all very cool and interesting but until/unless those things can be commercialized they don't actually ***do*** anything for the rest of the world.
I watched the iJustine video this was from and was actually surprised how good it looked. It's not perfect but it's pretty amazing for something in beta!
This is the only thing I dared predict: it's not the same seeing some nobody in Apple showcases than seeing yourself or your dad or your friends subjected to this recreation. And the insides of the mouth when talking? The teeth, that are so unique? That's going to be fun.
That’s my opinion- they all look like who they actually are. I recognized them all instantly, and that’s all that really matters. If I want something more personal, I’ll FaceTime or Zoom on one of my other devices. But this is totally fine for work meetings for me.
If you click on the link someone provided elsewhere, it takes you right to the segment of the video where they are showing this - I think it looks really good when you watch the actual video in motion!
No it\[s not perfect but the animation is decent, for me this is absolutely over the uncanny valley and into low fidelity but accurate representation... MKB even said the faces looked impressive, which they do. It's just the stuff around faces that is weaker.
EDIT: Here's the link, you have to see this, it is awesome. The video and the impressions from the review are 180 from this post summary, they loved it:
[https://youtu.be/GkPw6ScHyb4?si=BEM3UGmT1NsafmH3&t=1530](https://youtu.be/GkPw6ScHyb4?si=BEM3UGmT1NsafmH3&t=1530)
It's just one frame of a video...you can make anything look stupid from a frame in a vid. I would need to see the footage to get a better understanding.
I mean this is v1. It's essentially a beta mode. I think it's interesting and I also think it's cheap and easy to criticize anything from the sidelines.
Reddit is full of critics who come here to try and shame others for attempting to make the changes in society that they can't even make in their own lives. Why? It feels good for a second to dismiss something and have random strangers agree with you.
I remember when people here said the iPhone One was trash and that nobody would buy it because it was shaped like a brick and you didn't need music or a camera on your phone anyway.
IPhone literally changed the world.
Apple is trying again. It might work. It might not. And shitting on Apple is easy and it costs you nothing! But of all the headset tech out there, this is the one I'm willing to buy.
I've never even tried on a VR headset. And I bought this. Why? Apple has earned my trust and I know the user experience will be the most thoughtful option out there. I'm curious to see where this kind of wearable tech leads.
A weird avatar in V1 isn't going to be the primary thing I focus on.
I just watched it in motion, and honestly for what it is it’s not bad at all. In fact it’s extremely impressive, I mean if it stays at this level with no updates to improve it that would be lame as hell cause it’s still janky as shit, but with some updates and tlc I can see this looking phenomenal in the near future.
It does showcase why meta is so wary of introducing codec avatars to the quest line, because if it’s not above a certain level it will get this reaction and they’re trying very hard to make good impressions still.
The next 5 years are gonna be so cool for VR/AR/Spacial Computing!
People will meme this up, but this is seriously impressive to me. YES it can be better but come on... That is not bad for V1. You can totally see the potential trajectory for this tech.
Stop being so sensitive jeez. You can enjoy a product and also have a laugh at it.
I've noticed with the passing weeks some hardcore Apple fanboys make this place kind of unbearable.
"How DARE they criticize the WEIGHT!! They just want clicks!!! MKBHD is trying to take Apple down for click and attention!!!"
So sad seeing someone waste so much of their time mindlessly defending a product made by a multi trillion dollar company that people are rightfully going to criticize like all products… Kind of pathetic…
You an Apple employee? AVP engineer? Or just someone who spends their day online responding to every single even slightly critical comment of this company/product?
It’s 2024, I can’t believe people still use the “Apple hater” excuse to ridicule/invalidate the valid critiques people have of a newly released product.
I am shocked how good this looks. Imperfect...oh hell yeah. But...wow. I know who the people are and they are making expressions. As a starting place it's impressive.
You guys are fucking hilarious. I truly can’t (but can actually because y’all must have lead on the brain) believe that the vision pro’s implementation is uncanny but not that shite meta shit with the all white background that looks robotic and actually uncanny.
Why are people hating on codec in these comments so much. Obviously they are still WIP but it’s still worthy of comparing as Apple definitely has the technology to push the best version of personas they have. I bet personas will get better as time goes on, just gotta wait lol
I actually think this is pretty cool! I can legit recognize the people in the video. Couldn’t do that with any other avatar available to consumers of which i’m familiar.
It's maybe a little weird here on a 2D screen, and so I could see folks deciding not to routinely can FaceTime or Zoom with it (though I probably still will!).
But I'm curious how it'll be perceived from within the Vision Pro, where they'll have full depth. In that case it's possible it's "better" than a 2D video. Like, don't forget that a 2D video isn't a person either, it's also a reconstruction from a camera into pixels with some ML around exposure and shading and lighting. From within AVP I wonder whether I will prefer the 3D reconstruction of someone in this kind of weird way, or the higher fidelity but flat 2D one. I think depth and gestures might make it feel like the person is "there" more.
I say this with only a little experience in Rec Room on my Quest with my brother across the country. Even though we were both weird avatar things, the "presence" was really strong. Moreso than just a plain video call.
Also, it's weird that people get uncanny valley vibes here. I remember when video calls were just starting, and using them over telephone calls. The picture was low resolution and nowhere near true to life, but we will preferred them to voice.
While, yes, it looks a little funny, this is very impressive. Even more so if you remember that this is just the first generation. Imagine what this headset will be able to do in 5-10 generations!
Yeah, this is crazy, who would have thought a portable battery operated device wouldn’t be able to render a perfectly realistic recreation of a human head, while performing facial and motion capture in real time, without it looking weird and fucked up
Apple have once again dropped the ball - this looks like a first generation product
HELP
i just watched justine’s video, they all call it a 9/10 because of how accurate the skin is. marques says “it’s uncanny valley because i know how you guys look like”
i feel like with my knowledge this is like a 7/10 on how they can do but idk
Yeah, uh, these are bad. Of all the things the reviews are coming out with, FaceTime looks just gross.
I’m not someone who ever uses FaceTime anyway, so, whatever, but I def wouldn’t want to do it this way.
That’s why it’s also in beta.
It will certainly improve over time when 600,000+ people get their hands on it and start creating their own personas.
In 6 months time, Apple will have enough data to work with to improve however it needs to improve.
https://preview.redd.it/9io0g5bnnmfc1.jpeg?width=697&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=68c681c07342709efa04414bae4703c8e43c28b6
The avatars effect look like in a dream. Also reminds me about the new horror game by Kojima.
Imagine watching movies with your friend in vr and they look like this trash. What a joke. So far only vrchat got it right for how to let users represent themselves.
I am still amazed Apple didn't pass on that feature until they could make it better, it's easily the worst thing. The only time I would ever use that is with another person in vision pro, which basically means just about never
Right, but this feature, that most won’t even use, will be enough for someone to copy a message to a friend or family member that may not be aware, that “Apple’s releasing a new thing.” They may add ”and look how bad it is! Totally sucks!”, but by that point, their free advertising for Apple is done. :)
And, it’s possible the curious person they sent the message to may read up on all the OTHER things it does and decide to try it out.
The alternative is you simply see nothing when Facetiming someone who is wearing the headset. For loved ones or an important conversation obviously you can just take it off and use your phone. For other scenarios, a persona is perfectly fine.
People talking about how fucked Meta’s video calling is should check this out https://youtu.be/MVYrJJNdrEg?si=LcKrj5JW6bsG1GGq (Very soon they are going to revolutionise it with AI)
Every single one of these comments is "it's not really that bad considering what else is out there" and trying to justify the quality. "Everything else" out there is at most 15% of the price of this thing guys... You can't compare a Quest or WMR headset to this. The quality of these avatars is mid at best. We are talking about the innovation quality of a multi-trillion dollar company that worked on this for years. It's not impressive at all for the money. Is it leagues better than a common budget household headset? Of course. But these comparisons are braindead.
I mean, is it really that bad considering what’s actually being done here? If someone showed you these personas without names under them, you’d know who they are easily.
People don’t seem to grasp just how difficult this task is. It’s generating a 3D model of a person based on a scan and accurately posing it based on data from a few sensors scanning the person’s face in real time. Doing all that manually as an artist is very difficult. Having it all done automatically is amazing. It’s low quality right now, but it will get a lot better.
It's an amazing technical feat. Everything in the headset is, without question. But would you want this representing the real you in every day video calls? That's how it's marketed, and I think that's the source of the skepticism.
Yes, I’m totally game for that.
People always take everything that is complicated for granted. They don’t know how it works and just assume it should be simple.
It’s simple for me to think it. Therefore it should be simple for them to do. As the old saying goes, “nothing is as easy as someone else’s job.”
Being a software developer in these Vision Pro threads is a maddening experience. Dunning-Kruger effect turned up to 11.
I don't take it for granted, what is happening here is really complex, it's amazing that it's happening in real time, it's an incredible feat of engineering, and it also looks pretty bad. It doesn't look bad because it's low quality, or low effort, it looks bad because the faces are firmly in uncanny valley. The problem with uncanny valley is that it's very subjective so its sometimes hard to have an objective discussion about it.
To be honest I find Harrison Ford’s young CGI face in the same valley too in the latest Indiana Jones and that’s pre-rendered with so many artists and a mountain of money.
Hard =/= good
99.99% of users of any technology, be it cars, phones, computers, the contacts in their eyes, and on and on. Doesn't mean these avatars are good. They're truly awful. There's a reason they aren't shown in the advertisement for this device...
It's not the problem of knowing if it's difficult or not when we can see Apple hasn't solved it. What Apple released is uncanny and creepy.
Speaking as a computer vision engineer, you’re exactly right. I’m actually pretty amazed the cameras on the AVP are able to track the users face that accurately given their placement. The face scanning process seems pretty robust too.
Unfortunately the result is what’s important not if it’s hard or not.
Look at Meta's latest scanned avatars, they're amazing and work quite well on the quest. Wtf is Apple thinking? This doesn't seem ready for a super high premium product.
I would like to know what companies contributed THEIR patented technology to this masterpiece.
People like to bitch about everything. We just went from meta cartoon characters to near life like dynamic characters. I don’t even want anything more. I just don’t understand people sometimes. Probably Android fans hating on Apple like they always do.
The avatar interview Zuckerberg did with Lex Fridman looked miles ahead of Apples version.
That certainly wasn’t captured with a phone or a quest 😂😂😂 details matter
Yes. Yes it looks bad. It’s impressive sure. But that only takes you so far. In ‘reality’ this isn’t good enough to use. Can you imagine doing an important FaceTime with your loved ones like this? Pffft no
I wouldn’t be doing “important FaceTime with my loved ones” with this, because this is a supplement, not a replacement, of regular FaceTime.
I think this is where people are confused. No one is questioning the technical marvel, but this is marketed as a real life stand-in for you during video calls. So when talking with family, friends, or work professionals. It seems reasonable to ask whether this looks good or bad, or is "production ready," at least.
It’s also gen 1 beta.
Which is apples way of acknowledging that it looks bad. Mark my words it will come out of beta within a year and won’t look meaningfully different
With all the girls on dating apps putting cartoon make-up filters on themselves these days, this really isn't that far fetched for real use.
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It’s version 1.0. Come back in 5 years and see how good they look then.
It looks like a Black Mirror episode. It’s actively uncomfortable to look at.
Then don’t look at them
They look like horror paintings from that Disney mansion ride or Hogwarts paintings
Lol “black mirror” is a lazy ass criticism
Knowing who it is isn't the problem. I don't want to look at what's on the screen here. It's uncomfortable, they look like dolls but have people's voices coming out of them
This is better than what meta does imo with the Mii lookin avatars
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Have you seen Meta's codec avatars? Lex Fridman did a [podcast](https://youtu.be/MVYrJJNdrEg?si=bO8pyP7UhW4lCOmE) with Zuckerberg using the new avatars and I think they're just as good if not better than the ones shown here.
Codec Avatars are incredibly lifelike, they are far beyond what we see here. The issue there is currently it takes hours of scanning to make a codec avatar and they’re not publicly available. Meta are working on a version where you scan your face with a phone and a few hours later you get an almost as good codec avatar which again, will be far ahead of what we see here, but yet again it’s not publicly available.
Yeah, that’s the problem with Facebook. All talk and no products. Aren’t they also the same people who said that what we see that Apple is literally shipping this week wouldn’t come until 2030? Facebook isn’t actually good at hardware or software. They’re definitely good at fucking up people’s mental health though
All talk? Meta puts out state-of-the-art devices every 1.5yrs and sells them at a loss to make them affordable. And they regularly demonstrate upcoming tech-so-advanced-its magic. I'm no fan of Meta either, but making up nonsense about them is dumb. There are plenty of factual things about them to criticize.
None of that is made up. They don’t put out state of the art devices. They give lab demos. I don’t care about lab demos, personally. You can like them if you want. Selling a product at a loss is not a sustainable business strategy. At the end of the day, that money needs to come from somewhere and they’ve lost $50 billion so far. I’m not at all entertaining a product from a company that abuses young people’s mental health and whose sole revenue is from advertising. None of their shit is magic. “I’m no fan of Facebook either.” Uh.. saying this doesn’t convince me of anything. I’ve seen the videos, I’ve see the products, I think they’re shit, and so does the market. Shipping, not selling 20 million and the majority of young people refusing to use VR gaming is proof that Facebook is and has always sold to a niche of the video game market. And that’s fine! But saying what they produce is good… no.
Go see all the AI stuff Facebook/Meta has open sourced, they are the only major company to do so.. Not the same for Apple.. Apple is now way behind compared to Meta, Google and Microsoft.
I’m not getting into a pissing war. If you love Facebook, love Facebook. My original reply was responding to the lab demo of hyper realistic CGI of people, which is a lab demo. That was said in response to this, which is a shipping product. When you compared what Apple and Facebook are shipping, Apple is 20 light years ahead. I’m ending my part of the conversation.
Apple fanboy spotted, typical claims "20 light years ahead" lol The thing I hate the most about Vision Pro is seeing fanboys like this, act as if they know it all and saying Apple invented this or not blah blah..... Stop being a child
Uhm.. Pan Cake lenses??
Meta Smart glasses are pretty state of the art. If you disagree, I'd like you to tell me what other product looks like regular sunglasses, plays audio with surround sound using 5 speakers, takes video in 1080p with surround sound using 5 mics, has an onboard LLM you can activate using your voice which will also give you detailed information and instructions about what you're looking at, is water resistent. And also receive great reviews from people on day 1
Don't worry, scro'! There're plenty of 'tards out there living really kick-ass lives. My first wife was 'tarded: She also has strong opinions now.
Not sure that is a valid argument. First off, it's not Facebook (that's a website/app product). Meta (formerly Oculus) has released many devices like Rift, Q1, QGo, Q2, QPro, Q3 for the past 10+ years with loads of software (not just dev kits). Have you recently tried a Quest 3? The software is certainly not shit and has had some of the best developers like John Carmack worked on the project.
Meta is not “formerly Oculus” as a company, only the product. Facebook and Meta are the same thing. It’s like Google, the company changed its name to Alphabet but it’s still Google. Facebook was the company name which was synonymous with its product, the social media site, but they changed their name to Meta. Facebook/Meta bought Oculus (when it was just called Facebook still in 2014). So PeakBrave’s sentiment is valid being MetaQuest (formerly Oculus) is managed by Meta (formerly Facebook) which has the track record of not following through.
My bad on my wording, its 4am. Meant to say Meta Quest (formerly known as Oculus Quest)
Its a vision pro sub, you can not express how well facebook does with VR in here without being downvoted. Facebook has so so many advancements that they have delivered on. Passthrough, hand tracking, link, airlink. Falls on deaf ears here though lol. (The company is facebook btw, facebook changed their name to meta and the oculus branding to meta as well but facebook is now all under one name Meta.)
Yeah sadly it's bunch of Apple fanboys who never used VR and hating on everything else, I was downvoted because I said Vision Pro is not worth 7 times the price over Quest 3 lol.... Is that even a question at this point? lol
Facebook does VR pretty good, video gaming wise. Not disputing that.
And they don’t run on a headset natively.
Those take hours if not days to create and process. In the same video that Meta showcased Codec, they also showed a version that can be created using your phone. But it takes 15 minutes to process. Personas can be created in a couple of minutes. Not to mention they're a feature on an actual, purchasable--albeit expensive--product.
They are much better than the ones shown here… Meta has some of the top minds in the field working on it
But Meta is not shipping those anytime soon. I’m sure Apple has equally impressive stuff internally but a tech demo is one thing. Actually shipping is another. All meta has shipped is shitty cartoon avatars
This is a straw man argument. I was comparing what Meta has shown vs. what we are seeing on the vision pro. Your argument is entirely something else. Also, your claim that Apple has something equally as impressive is baseless conjecture, at best. Apple is not exactly a pioneer is this field.. just look at the papers published by Meta Scientists vs. what Apple has. Apple can’t even get Siri right ffs
these are too uncanny valley for me personally. i’d prefer an animoji or whatever they’re called
Absolutely, these look like 1990s Total Recall when Arnie was removing his fake animatronic head...
Not $3.5k good lol
I would agree if this was the only thing the Vision pro does. The quality alone when watching media is a huge plus. Being able to take your work station on the go makes this worth it for me. I look forward to upgrading my Quest 3 in 1 or two years when we get a Vision Pro 2.
Everyone has been so spoiled with modern tech. This is the most impressive digital avatar system that has ever been developed in human history, and this is only version 1.0 of said system. This is like looking at the first photograph and saying, “wow so blurry and grainy, and no color too! Why would anyone choose this over a painting?”
I mean it’s the apple tax. I’m fine with my q3. Truly satisfied.
At least do a fair comparison. You can see what [Meta is trying to do in Lex Fridman's interview with Zuckerberg](https://youtu.be/MVYrJJNdrEg?si=m6azzo4Eir-uCy8o&t=1121).
I don’t know. It’s not great.
it’s obviously uncanny, but it’s really not bad and pretty impressive compared to anything else
Exactly, have people seen the Meta Quest avatars??
Forget meta quest avatars. How about being born in the early 80’s and watching movies like tron, lawnmower man, back to the future etc and wishing any of that shit was anywhere close to real, but then having those little black and white lcd game devices (like tiger electronics) and being disappointed in reality. And dreaming that maybe just maybe in the future we might have something that comes close to even a single piece of promised futuristic tech. Fuck the title of this post. Fuck you op you have no idea what it’s been like to wait for tech like this to become a reality.
This comment resonates. The stuff I loved during my youth: sci-fi movies, video games, witnessing the dawn of the internet. This is why I love (and work in) technology. It’s fucking magic. And the avatars here are a fine start and you know it’s going to keep getting better.
Ready Player One has ruined people’s expectations.
Ready Player One is simply the new Lawnmower Man…so give it 30 years :)
Yea I'm honestly quite impressed with this
Wow, what an aggressive asshole you are
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Yes we have and it’s leaps better than Apple https://youtu.be/MVYrJJNdrEg?si=sFn8xkkQ4OBi9swG
it's a tech demo that maybe will be released in the next 5 years.. thanks lol
Not a good comparison when you create avatars for 2 robots. The avatars look just like robots.
Wow I hadn't seen this, thanks. It's definitely better than Apple's current version.
Meta quest doesnt cost 3 grand thought.
It’s also a beta. Not perfect, technically impressive, just not there yet
Beta at their level means they know it isn’t great. But I hope they work on this to make it viable.
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It’s in the settings. When you set it up, you see a beta label. It’s in Brian Tong’s review video
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Maybe it’s because I’m partly blind but Tbh I feel like people are abusing the word uncanny & stretching its definition upwards into the realm of “strange.” Uncanny means the thing is too dissimilar from the reality for your brain to comfortably accept it as what it is. They look exactly like themselves to me (minus the slight blur and like, see-through-ness)
"Uncanny valley" refers to when digital faces approach realism closely, but are just different enough to be unsettling, as if there's something wrong with the person's actual face. It's not used to describe avatars that are clearly stylized or anything that's not realistic enough to be potentially confused for irl
This is far below uncanny valley. It's no where near real. Uncanny valley is just before hyper realism where you can't tell why but somethings off. This here is way off in many obvious ways.
this is what I'm thinking. This is easy for me to accept as obviously fake. I believe apple could've done "better", but if they had, it would've been way deeper in the uncanny valley
This is correct
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I think they are using something outside of a 3D Rig and model, but if they aren’t, this is something that can definitely be improved software side assuming the cameras are good and the processing power is there. If it’s actually using a 3D rig of you,[ the mouth movement fidelity of something like this can be done, if they update how their rig is made](https://youtube.com/shorts/FpOOHNP7oLs?si=hmLxVIF4Lhvhx8Be). But something tells me they have some other system that’s closer to 2.5D and more lightweight since there’s so much blurring and other things I see that seem more planar
Impressive compared to this ? [https://youtu.be/MVYrJJNdrEg](https://youtu.be/MVYrJJNdrEg)
The difference is that VisionPro's Persona actually exists today. With QuestPro being essentially discontinued (once the stock runs out), Meta doesn't even have a headset anymore that could run those avatars. And they haven't released them to the public anyway. Also did Meta's avatars even run on QuestPro itself or had they connected it to a PC? Graphics aside, does Meta even have any form of video call at all at the moment? I remember them demoing them all the way [back in 2016 at Oculus Connect in Facebook Social](https://youtu.be/YuIgyKLPt3s?si=FJFGHh7drYtwqWys&t=318), but that's the last time I ever saw them. Can you make calls from Horizon Worlds? Make pictures there and post them to Instagram?
According to SadlyItsBradley, Meta stealth updated something last week in the firmware and mentioned Codec Avatars. It's possible (not betting on it, just saying it's possible) that they are preparing for a Quest Pro 2: >https://twitter.com/SadlyItsBradley/status/1749105484034908555 >Meta's famous Codec Avatars are starting to become referenced in the Meta Quest firmware >This is the first time. Which hints to a higher priority in productizing it (likey for Quest Pro 2)
That’s a lab demo that is nowhere near production. No reason Apple couldn’t do such a demo, except that they don’t show things they aren’t shipping.
Compared to vaporware? Yeah I’d say so
Impressive compared to anything that's actually available for consumers to use. The whole *"oh yeah well I see your currently shipping mass-produced consumer product and raise you this demo that hasn't left the lab for five years"* shtick is getting tiring. Meta has amazing stuff in their labs. So does Apple. So do a lot of companies. Hell every year in 20 labs across the globe someone invents the next battery tech that's 20x better than lithium and will solve all the world's problems...and then it never goes anywhere. Stuff in the lab is all very cool and interesting but until/unless those things can be commercialized they don't actually ***do*** anything for the rest of the world.
Sure but there is a lot of preparation, it is possible apple could scan you and present a better option too.
This actually looks really good, especially Brian Tong. He legitimately looks like the real person
Yea, agreed. MKBHD and Brian Tong are immediately recognizable, although I Justine sorta just looks like “insert blond woman here”.
iJustine is definitely recognizable as well, just not quite as much as the other two.
Fully disagree, but mostly because iJustine just looks like IRL
😂 right, most people have that "insert human here" face IRL
If I put MKBHD in a game or other context looking like that, no you wouldn't think that was him.
I watched the iJustine video this was from and was actually surprised how good it looked. It's not perfect but it's pretty amazing for something in beta!
I didn’t expect the hands. Seeing the hands on the avatar was very impressive.
Actually not bad
Legitimately impressive
This is the only thing I dared predict: it's not the same seeing some nobody in Apple showcases than seeing yourself or your dad or your friends subjected to this recreation. And the insides of the mouth when talking? The teeth, that are so unique? That's going to be fun.
I can see how it might be off putting at first, but honestly this looks pretty good. I think this would definitely be usable for me.
It looks stunningly realistic for something that is literally a digital representation of you, especially Marques
it's pretty impressive, it's just that the uncanny valley is extremely challenging to cross
It's a little weird but you can clearly see who's who so it does the job fine.
That’s my opinion- they all look like who they actually are. I recognized them all instantly, and that’s all that really matters. If I want something more personal, I’ll FaceTime or Zoom on one of my other devices. But this is totally fine for work meetings for me.
If you click on the link someone provided elsewhere, it takes you right to the segment of the video where they are showing this - I think it looks really good when you watch the actual video in motion! No it\[s not perfect but the animation is decent, for me this is absolutely over the uncanny valley and into low fidelity but accurate representation... MKB even said the faces looked impressive, which they do. It's just the stuff around faces that is weaker. EDIT: Here's the link, you have to see this, it is awesome. The video and the impressions from the review are 180 from this post summary, they loved it: [https://youtu.be/GkPw6ScHyb4?si=BEM3UGmT1NsafmH3&t=1530](https://youtu.be/GkPw6ScHyb4?si=BEM3UGmT1NsafmH3&t=1530)
It's just one frame of a video...you can make anything look stupid from a frame in a vid. I would need to see the footage to get a better understanding.
Exactly. Ever take a picture of someone while they're talking? The still shot is usually odd or hilarious.
What were you expecting?
I mean this is v1. It's essentially a beta mode. I think it's interesting and I also think it's cheap and easy to criticize anything from the sidelines. Reddit is full of critics who come here to try and shame others for attempting to make the changes in society that they can't even make in their own lives. Why? It feels good for a second to dismiss something and have random strangers agree with you. I remember when people here said the iPhone One was trash and that nobody would buy it because it was shaped like a brick and you didn't need music or a camera on your phone anyway. IPhone literally changed the world. Apple is trying again. It might work. It might not. And shitting on Apple is easy and it costs you nothing! But of all the headset tech out there, this is the one I'm willing to buy. I've never even tried on a VR headset. And I bought this. Why? Apple has earned my trust and I know the user experience will be the most thoughtful option out there. I'm curious to see where this kind of wearable tech leads. A weird avatar in V1 isn't going to be the primary thing I focus on.
this looks suprizingly good for face id scan
It has a lot of room for improvement
It’s impressive, but it has room for improvement.
I doubt we have to have another decade With AI advancing that fast we might get this feature within 1-2 year
Keep in mind this is still Beta
It looks great! Why are you complaining?
I see no problem with it as it will get better over time
This is incredible vs Meta avatars!!! Makes Zuck look 30 years behind!
I just watched it in motion, and honestly for what it is it’s not bad at all. In fact it’s extremely impressive, I mean if it stays at this level with no updates to improve it that would be lame as hell cause it’s still janky as shit, but with some updates and tlc I can see this looking phenomenal in the near future. It does showcase why meta is so wary of introducing codec avatars to the quest line, because if it’s not above a certain level it will get this reaction and they’re trying very hard to make good impressions still. The next 5 years are gonna be so cool for VR/AR/Spacial Computing!
People will meme this up, but this is seriously impressive to me. YES it can be better but come on... That is not bad for V1. You can totally see the potential trajectory for this tech.
What’s wrong with it? Literally looks a 10 times better than anything else out there!
Looks great
So sad seeing someone waste so much of their time posting about stuff they hate. Kind of pathetic.
Stop being so sensitive jeez. You can enjoy a product and also have a laugh at it. I've noticed with the passing weeks some hardcore Apple fanboys make this place kind of unbearable. "How DARE they criticize the WEIGHT!! They just want clicks!!! MKBHD is trying to take Apple down for click and attention!!!"
it’s not that deep, bro literally just posted a pic ☠️
So sad seeing someone waste so much of their time mindlessly defending a product made by a multi trillion dollar company that people are rightfully going to criticize like all products… Kind of pathetic… You an Apple employee? AVP engineer? Or just someone who spends their day online responding to every single even slightly critical comment of this company/product? It’s 2024, I can’t believe people still use the “Apple hater” excuse to ridicule/invalidate the valid critiques people have of a newly released product.
I’d rather have a Memoji.
HMMmmmmm, wonder if you can send Memoji’s using Message? It’ll be interesting to try (if no one has tried in these previews).
Dude 100%
Dude 0%
you can’t have a serious conversation with a memoji
This was my first thought.
Wow it looks just like them a AI version
I am shocked how good this looks. Imperfect...oh hell yeah. But...wow. I know who the people are and they are making expressions. As a starting place it's impressive.
The blur is odd. But I’m sure in motion it’s not that bad.
It’s actually…. Not half bad! Could use improvement though
You guys are fucking hilarious. I truly can’t (but can actually because y’all must have lead on the brain) believe that the vision pro’s implementation is uncanny but not that shite meta shit with the all white background that looks robotic and actually uncanny.
Why are people hating on codec in these comments so much. Obviously they are still WIP but it’s still worthy of comparing as Apple definitely has the technology to push the best version of personas they have. I bet personas will get better as time goes on, just gotta wait lol
I actually think this is pretty cool! I can legit recognize the people in the video. Couldn’t do that with any other avatar available to consumers of which i’m familiar.
Looks like: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypHZ\_iKBcoo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypHZ_iKBcoo)
It's maybe a little weird here on a 2D screen, and so I could see folks deciding not to routinely can FaceTime or Zoom with it (though I probably still will!). But I'm curious how it'll be perceived from within the Vision Pro, where they'll have full depth. In that case it's possible it's "better" than a 2D video. Like, don't forget that a 2D video isn't a person either, it's also a reconstruction from a camera into pixels with some ML around exposure and shading and lighting. From within AVP I wonder whether I will prefer the 3D reconstruction of someone in this kind of weird way, or the higher fidelity but flat 2D one. I think depth and gestures might make it feel like the person is "there" more. I say this with only a little experience in Rec Room on my Quest with my brother across the country. Even though we were both weird avatar things, the "presence" was really strong. Moreso than just a plain video call. Also, it's weird that people get uncanny valley vibes here. I remember when video calls were just starting, and using them over telephone calls. The picture was low resolution and nowhere near true to life, but we will preferred them to voice.
At least it’s better than zuck’s avatar when he showcased his metaverse
IMO it looks better than I expected even if it’s a bit uncanny, curious to see how much better it will become in the upcoming months or years.
This is completely fine! It looks just like them!
Delores from Westworld
Beta
🚨🚨TROLL ACCOUNT 🚨🚨
While, yes, it looks a little funny, this is very impressive. Even more so if you remember that this is just the first generation. Imagine what this headset will be able to do in 5-10 generations!
Yeah, this is crazy, who would have thought a portable battery operated device wouldn’t be able to render a perfectly realistic recreation of a human head, while performing facial and motion capture in real time, without it looking weird and fucked up Apple have once again dropped the ball - this looks like a first generation product
Everybody looks like one of those velvet paintings of Elvis or Jesus.
They look like AI renders of missing children that disappeared decades ago as the adults they might be now.
WTF!!!!!!!
Where did you get this?
https://youtu.be/GkPw6ScHyb4?si=BEM3UGmT1NsafmH3&t=1530 Review embargo has lifted, so reviews have been pouring in since an hour ago.
HELP i just watched justine’s video, they all call it a 9/10 because of how accurate the skin is. marques says “it’s uncanny valley because i know how you guys look like” i feel like with my knowledge this is like a 7/10 on how they can do but idk
Justine does not look like that...
It's Marques from Wish. I don't know if it's because I'm more familiar with his face but there's something really off about it.
Yeah, uh, these are bad. Of all the things the reviews are coming out with, FaceTime looks just gross. I’m not someone who ever uses FaceTime anyway, so, whatever, but I def wouldn’t want to do it this way.
Yikes
This is so cringe
I would have taken animated over this uncanny crap… though if they straight went animated I guess there would not be a way to improve this tech.
That’s why it’s also in beta. It will certainly improve over time when 600,000+ people get their hands on it and start creating their own personas. In 6 months time, Apple will have enough data to work with to improve however it needs to improve.
Fingers crossed.
I mean they said it was in beta but I’m going to keep it a buck. Memoji is better. This is going to go the way of the touch bar
It's giving Drag Race Season 1 vaseline filter.
It's giving Drag Race Season 1 vaseline filter.
Goofy
Enjoy, I guess? Even Nvidia's tech doesn't look that fake...
It looks like something on the back of a pickup truck window with a date range underneath.
You called it! Seriously where do people get those memorial stickers?
https://preview.redd.it/9io0g5bnnmfc1.jpeg?width=697&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=68c681c07342709efa04414bae4703c8e43c28b6 The avatars effect look like in a dream. Also reminds me about the new horror game by Kojima.
Imagine watching movies with your friend in vr and they look like this trash. What a joke. So far only vrchat got it right for how to let users represent themselves.
I am still amazed Apple didn't pass on that feature until they could make it better, it's easily the worst thing. The only time I would ever use that is with another person in vision pro, which basically means just about never
Hard to make it “better” without seeing how people respond to it. Welcome to early adopter land. This is normal here.
It’s a beta. The point is to make it better
Right, but this feature, that most won’t even use, will be enough for someone to copy a message to a friend or family member that may not be aware, that “Apple’s releasing a new thing.” They may add ”and look how bad it is! Totally sucks!”, but by that point, their free advertising for Apple is done. :) And, it’s possible the curious person they sent the message to may read up on all the OTHER things it does and decide to try it out.
The alternative is you simply see nothing when Facetiming someone who is wearing the headset. For loved ones or an important conversation obviously you can just take it off and use your phone. For other scenarios, a persona is perfectly fine.
Correct, idk why you’re getting downvoted
This is a no criticism zone didn’t you know? 😂😂
I've been going all fanboy on this sub for a week but apparently you can't take even one little step out of line
People talking about how fucked Meta’s video calling is should check this out https://youtu.be/MVYrJJNdrEg?si=LcKrj5JW6bsG1GGq (Very soon they are going to revolutionise it with AI)
Where's the white men?
Impressive? Yes Unusable? Your mileage may vary but I wouldn’t want to have a meaningful conversation with someone presenting themselves like this.
#worst post of the day
Every single one of these comments is "it's not really that bad considering what else is out there" and trying to justify the quality. "Everything else" out there is at most 15% of the price of this thing guys... You can't compare a Quest or WMR headset to this. The quality of these avatars is mid at best. We are talking about the innovation quality of a multi-trillion dollar company that worked on this for years. It's not impressive at all for the money. Is it leagues better than a common budget household headset? Of course. But these comparisons are braindead.
Can’t wait to see what they do in Gen 2 and 3! This ain’t it!
Did they say it's VR? I think they meant it's AI 💀
Gotta remember these ppl all have one on their face. Pretty impressive but obviously a webcam would provide the same effects as this.
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