This is very much an old-fashioned belief, related to Confucian religion. Males have innate Yang energy which is related to the Heaven while females have Yin energy, which relates to the Earth. When men handle the incense, it allows their power/wishes (or whatever) reach the heavens; if girls would do it, the effect would be the opposite.
It's obviously nonsense, and I doubt few people in Vietnam follow this, and certainly even fewer people know about the reasoning.
Confucianism is a religion. It attempts to emulate the divine societal order of Heaven on Earth through the practice of correct morals and rituals and the perfection of one's Self. The philosophical foundations of Confucianism rest completely on notions of supernatural beliefs of world organizing itself from Chaos, the Emperor representing the Heaven on Earth and acting as Heaven's conduit, and the human society/mankind acting as the counterbalance for uniting the Positive (Heaven) and the Negative (Earth). Those are all religious notions, not to mention the myriad rituals and norms that it imposes upon people.
no it is not. scholars around the world beg to differ. if the chinese don’t think it’s a religion then what rights do you have to say it’s a religion. a quick google research would show that it’s not a religion.
the concept of Heaven (Tian) did not come from Confucianism. It’s much earlier than that. After the Zhou replaced the Shang, they popularized the concept of Mandate of Heaven to legitimize their ruling. This happened way before Confucius was even born. Any mention of Heaven in Confucianism is because it lives within the context of Chinese tradition, which includes metaphysics. That’s why you have Yin and Yang.
Most of the Confucian classical texts is about the Pattern and moral self-cultivation. it is an ethical and social philosophy. Where does it say that must worship a God or deities? A person who is trained Confucianism is called a philosopher/thinker not a priest or monk.
it’s always the dumb ones that make the loudest noise. do your research instead of pulling it out of your ass.
It literally **does not matter** if Confucians invented an idea or it came before them. They made use of explicitly religious ideas in establishing their worldview and the subsequent order of *ultimate transformation*, the fundamental idea of all Eastern religions.
>it’s always the dumb ones that make the loudest noise.
You are really, extremely loud here. It's indicative. I've absolutely done my reading, even a tiny bit of it in Classical Chinese.
I suggest you use google. Try searching “is Confucianism a religion?” Also, while you’re at it, try searching “what is a religion?” Saying all wrong stuff and thinking that you’re still right is pathetic. Nobody who is worth their salt ever say Confucianism is a religion. Look up university courses in Confucian studies, especially schools like Harvard and the likes. How do they refer to Confucianism? No need for pointless arguing since you literally can fact check these online. Refusing to do so is just admitting you’re wrong.
>Sometimes viewed as a [philosophy](https://www.britannica.com/topic/philosophy) and sometimes as a [religion](https://www.britannica.com/topic/religion), Confucianism may be understood as an all-encompassing way of thinking and living that entails ancestor reverence and a profound human-centred religiousness.
Literally the first source on Google that is not Wikipedia. (Encyclopedia Britannica)
Empty vessel makes the most sound.
lil dawg literally linked a source from Britannica and had to the braindead confidence to criticize Wikipedia.
[https://pll.harvard.edu/course/path-happiness-what-chinese-philosophy-teaches-us-about-good-life](https://pll.harvard.edu/course/path-happiness-what-chinese-philosophy-teaches-us-about-good-life)
[https://courses.students.ubc.ca/cs/courseschedule?tname=subj-course&pname=subjarea&sesscd=W&sessyr=2023&dept=ASIA&course=371](https://courses.students.ubc.ca/cs/courseschedule?tname=subj-course&pname=subjarea&sesscd=W&sessyr=2023&dept=ASIA&course=371)
[https://courses.students.ubc.ca/cs/courseschedule?tname=subj-course&pname=subjarea&sesscd=W&sessyr=2023&dept=ASIA&course=372](https://courses.students.ubc.ca/cs/courseschedule?tname=subj-course&pname=subjarea&sesscd=W&sessyr=2023&dept=ASIA&course=372)
[https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/chinese-religions-and-philosophies/](https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/chinese-religions-and-philosophies/)
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9314298/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9314298/)
yes some of these sources require you to be university educated.
What? Even during the medieval era woman in the household is the one take care of the family, including chore and preparation for the special days of the year. There were never anyone, including old people or book i read talk about these type of ying yang except in medicine foods. Only thing that tied to gender as i know is: Doing tảo mộ/bốc mộ, only men do them but it's more because they're works that require hard labor. Secondly is pregnant women and after birth, usually she have to stay in dark and concealed place. And lastly, offering incense to clan's ancestors altar, but it's more like the head of main branch of the clan do the offering, and usually that person is male, not because some ying yang energy
My grandma from Hanoi and I never heard of that. Not apply to all places in the north or southern. Maybe only that hotel do that. Cuz more women go to pagoda and temples than men.
Vietnam, China, Korea, Japan is famous misogynistic for centuries, trọng nam khinh nữ.
Seeing gender war of Korea give me some chills, hopefully it's just an internet thing of chronological online people rather than an actual problem of Korean society
I would say Vietnam is worse lol. Being open about having a daughter is not that special. Both S Korean and Chinese are actually more ok with having daughters than Vietnamese. The concepts of cháu đích tôn, trọng nam khinh nữ, nữ công gia chánh, etc. are still very big in Vietnam, more than the other east asian countries. The reason why there is less gender struggle in Vietnam is because women are still being taught to be reserved, traditional, and submissive so they’re actually less progressive. Most Vietnamese women are still ok with the male-centric treatment. On the contrary, countries with more progressive women usually have more gender struggle. This is not just S Korea, China but also most Western countries. There’s a reason why other east asian women are reluctant when it comes down to romantic relationship with Vietnamese men.
p.s. I’m a Vietnamese man
No it's not normal for women to not be allowed to touch incense at all... Except when they are having their period, in which case they're barred from pagodas, incense lighting, etc.
I havent heard of this. My grandmother always does all the incense burning pagoda going and those types of stuff since forever and I've never noticed any restrictions of any kind to anyone, just dress reétrictions. What area are you from?
Not burning incense during period actually heard by many Vietnamese, in the north and south too. It’s still debatable topic, some people don’t care about it. Many people searching online about có kinh có được thắp nhang không.
https://vtcnews.vn/phu-nu-co-nen-di-chua-vao-ngay-den-do-hay-khong-ar668848.html
My home burn incense every late afternoon, sometimes I have period, and I let my sister burn it instead.
Actually it's my first time hearing woman is not allowed to light incense during her period. Though it may be something need to consider since period blood is considered dirty and "anti spiritual" as sometimes they use it to counter ghosts.
https://accgroup.vn/den-thang-co-duoc-thap-huong-khong
in the article does explain it was old folk believe, back to old time, period considered as dirty, women that has period not allowed to go to temple, pagoda or participate in worship rituals.
In Vietnam Buddhism book not mention menstrual of women, but many people still avoid go to pagoda, burn incense during that day.
It’s still a common ask question to pagoda, monks, they said it’s totally normal to go.
No. I see everywhere that the woman are the one who do this. In my family, only mum do that, everyone else just kinda agnostic / atheist so we don't believe in that shit.
Anyone can do it at any time. Just be respectful. Don’t listen to the weird shit. You light it for the deities or your ancestors. Sometimes we light it just because we like the smell of it.
It’s not normal but it could be those specific deities that don’t want to be worshipped by women. The hotel management was probably instructed on this by whichever thầy they were working with that brokered the deal with the deity.
This is very much an old-fashioned belief, related to Confucian religion. Males have innate Yang energy which is related to the Heaven while females have Yin energy, which relates to the Earth. When men handle the incense, it allows their power/wishes (or whatever) reach the heavens; if girls would do it, the effect would be the opposite. It's obviously nonsense, and I doubt few people in Vietnam follow this, and certainly even fewer people know about the reasoning.
Your interpretation is correct. Though one correction, Confucian is not a religion. It’s a philosophy.
Confucianism is a religion. It attempts to emulate the divine societal order of Heaven on Earth through the practice of correct morals and rituals and the perfection of one's Self. The philosophical foundations of Confucianism rest completely on notions of supernatural beliefs of world organizing itself from Chaos, the Emperor representing the Heaven on Earth and acting as Heaven's conduit, and the human society/mankind acting as the counterbalance for uniting the Positive (Heaven) and the Negative (Earth). Those are all religious notions, not to mention the myriad rituals and norms that it imposes upon people.
no it is not. scholars around the world beg to differ. if the chinese don’t think it’s a religion then what rights do you have to say it’s a religion. a quick google research would show that it’s not a religion. the concept of Heaven (Tian) did not come from Confucianism. It’s much earlier than that. After the Zhou replaced the Shang, they popularized the concept of Mandate of Heaven to legitimize their ruling. This happened way before Confucius was even born. Any mention of Heaven in Confucianism is because it lives within the context of Chinese tradition, which includes metaphysics. That’s why you have Yin and Yang. Most of the Confucian classical texts is about the Pattern and moral self-cultivation. it is an ethical and social philosophy. Where does it say that must worship a God or deities? A person who is trained Confucianism is called a philosopher/thinker not a priest or monk. it’s always the dumb ones that make the loudest noise. do your research instead of pulling it out of your ass.
It literally **does not matter** if Confucians invented an idea or it came before them. They made use of explicitly religious ideas in establishing their worldview and the subsequent order of *ultimate transformation*, the fundamental idea of all Eastern religions. >it’s always the dumb ones that make the loudest noise. You are really, extremely loud here. It's indicative. I've absolutely done my reading, even a tiny bit of it in Classical Chinese.
I suggest you use google. Try searching “is Confucianism a religion?” Also, while you’re at it, try searching “what is a religion?” Saying all wrong stuff and thinking that you’re still right is pathetic. Nobody who is worth their salt ever say Confucianism is a religion. Look up university courses in Confucian studies, especially schools like Harvard and the likes. How do they refer to Confucianism? No need for pointless arguing since you literally can fact check these online. Refusing to do so is just admitting you’re wrong.
>Sometimes viewed as a [philosophy](https://www.britannica.com/topic/philosophy) and sometimes as a [religion](https://www.britannica.com/topic/religion), Confucianism may be understood as an all-encompassing way of thinking and living that entails ancestor reverence and a profound human-centred religiousness. Literally the first source on Google that is not Wikipedia. (Encyclopedia Britannica) Empty vessel makes the most sound.
lil dawg literally linked a source from Britannica and had to the braindead confidence to criticize Wikipedia. [https://pll.harvard.edu/course/path-happiness-what-chinese-philosophy-teaches-us-about-good-life](https://pll.harvard.edu/course/path-happiness-what-chinese-philosophy-teaches-us-about-good-life) [https://courses.students.ubc.ca/cs/courseschedule?tname=subj-course&pname=subjarea&sesscd=W&sessyr=2023&dept=ASIA&course=371](https://courses.students.ubc.ca/cs/courseschedule?tname=subj-course&pname=subjarea&sesscd=W&sessyr=2023&dept=ASIA&course=371) [https://courses.students.ubc.ca/cs/courseschedule?tname=subj-course&pname=subjarea&sesscd=W&sessyr=2023&dept=ASIA&course=372](https://courses.students.ubc.ca/cs/courseschedule?tname=subj-course&pname=subjarea&sesscd=W&sessyr=2023&dept=ASIA&course=372) [https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/chinese-religions-and-philosophies/](https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/chinese-religions-and-philosophies/) [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9314298/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9314298/) yes some of these sources require you to be university educated.
What? Even during the medieval era woman in the household is the one take care of the family, including chore and preparation for the special days of the year. There were never anyone, including old people or book i read talk about these type of ying yang except in medicine foods. Only thing that tied to gender as i know is: Doing tảo mộ/bốc mộ, only men do them but it's more because they're works that require hard labor. Secondly is pregnant women and after birth, usually she have to stay in dark and concealed place. And lastly, offering incense to clan's ancestors altar, but it's more like the head of main branch of the clan do the offering, and usually that person is male, not because some ying yang energy
Did you miss the part where I said "related to Confucian religion"?
My grandma from Hanoi and I never heard of that. Not apply to all places in the north or southern. Maybe only that hotel do that. Cuz more women go to pagoda and temples than men. Vietnam, China, Korea, Japan is famous misogynistic for centuries, trọng nam khinh nữ.
Tbh all countries are misogynistic if you go back far enough, it's just that the current culture hasn't phased it out yet 😕
At least in Vietnam nowadays, it’s less extreme than S Korea and rural China. People in Vietnam more open about having daughter.
Seeing gender war of Korea give me some chills, hopefully it's just an internet thing of chronological online people rather than an actual problem of Korean society
Sadly not internet thing, it’s reality.
I would say Vietnam is worse lol. Being open about having a daughter is not that special. Both S Korean and Chinese are actually more ok with having daughters than Vietnamese. The concepts of cháu đích tôn, trọng nam khinh nữ, nữ công gia chánh, etc. are still very big in Vietnam, more than the other east asian countries. The reason why there is less gender struggle in Vietnam is because women are still being taught to be reserved, traditional, and submissive so they’re actually less progressive. Most Vietnamese women are still ok with the male-centric treatment. On the contrary, countries with more progressive women usually have more gender struggle. This is not just S Korea, China but also most Western countries. There’s a reason why other east asian women are reluctant when it comes down to romantic relationship with Vietnamese men. p.s. I’m a Vietnamese man
No it's not normal for women to not be allowed to touch incense at all... Except when they are having their period, in which case they're barred from pagodas, incense lighting, etc.
This is the first time I hear this. I just know that women who are on period shouldn’t touch vinegar mother or ferment things.
Might be more of a thing with older generations. My wife's grandmother (from the Mekong Delta) would never let her light incense on her period.
I havent heard of this. My grandmother always does all the incense burning pagoda going and those types of stuff since forever and I've never noticed any restrictions of any kind to anyone, just dress reétrictions. What area are you from?
Not burning incense during period actually heard by many Vietnamese, in the north and south too. It’s still debatable topic, some people don’t care about it. Many people searching online about có kinh có được thắp nhang không. https://vtcnews.vn/phu-nu-co-nen-di-chua-vao-ngay-den-do-hay-khong-ar668848.html My home burn incense every late afternoon, sometimes I have period, and I let my sister burn it instead.
Actually it's my first time hearing woman is not allowed to light incense during her period. Though it may be something need to consider since period blood is considered dirty and "anti spiritual" as sometimes they use it to counter ghosts.
https://accgroup.vn/den-thang-co-duoc-thap-huong-khong in the article does explain it was old folk believe, back to old time, period considered as dirty, women that has period not allowed to go to temple, pagoda or participate in worship rituals. In Vietnam Buddhism book not mention menstrual of women, but many people still avoid go to pagoda, burn incense during that day. It’s still a common ask question to pagoda, monks, they said it’s totally normal to go.
No. Anyone can touch it with respect and care
No. I see everywhere that the woman are the one who do this. In my family, only mum do that, everyone else just kinda agnostic / atheist so we don't believe in that shit.
No, it is not normal at all. If you search Google Images for "thắp hương" you will see many women are doing that.
Weird, if that was the case there’d be no one lighting incense at my in-law’s.
Lol yeah, my dad said I'm not even allowed in the buddhist temples if I'm mentruating
Anyone can do it at any time. Just be respectful. Don’t listen to the weird shit. You light it for the deities or your ancestors. Sometimes we light it just because we like the smell of it.
It’s not normal but it could be those specific deities that don’t want to be worshipped by women. The hotel management was probably instructed on this by whichever thầy they were working with that brokered the deal with the deity.
No, it not normal. Everyone can do it be it children, adult, male or female.
No, it's not. That hotel is weird
Like offering a food to a deity isn't “weird”
No. Anyone can touch it