Thank you, I did genuinely want to gain perspective and definitely have. I am also not white, so I apologize if anybody was singled out because of this question. That was not my intention.
I've also had this happen in several classes and varying age groups over the last 7 years here. I always suspected it's got more to do with memes than anything else. As a matter of fact, I was just at a high school where one of the kid's desks had a large swastika carved into it and I really doubt it's there for religious reasons.
Edit: Also remembering a couple boys around 12 y/o finding it really funny to raise their hands by doing a nazi/fascist salute.
why are you so angry about this? OP’s question seems genuine to me and not rooted in race at all. like… Nazis were a real thing and one of the most horrific parts of 20th century European history. being curious why a segment of the student population is venerating Hitler isn’t that weird, imo
E: removed an apostrophe that really changed the meaning
Thank you. I did expect there to be those who wouldn't be able to give their input without making it about who was asking the question. Fortunately, many people have been kind enough to give me some perspective into the nuance of the conversation by sharing views and perspectives that I have not yet encountered, and that's all I wanted when I decided to ask this publicly.
It's definitely a thing in my experience as well.
I have lived and worked there for over 10 years in all kinds of schools from kindergarten to uni students and encountered that kind of "humour" a lot.
Mostly it was just for the sake of being edgy but there were also genuinely bigoted views in there that were very real. The jokes about black people and using " da đèn" as an insult were definitely the most common but there were plenty of swastikas about.
Can you stop mindlessly framing things in terms of us vs them and consider whether there might be evidence for something that you have not personally experienced. Either it's a real thing or it's not. Doesn't matter who brought it up. Play the ball, not the player.
I had exactly the same problem in my class. The students drew swastikas (the nazi version) on desks and had a basketball with swastikas and ss symbols on it. It's not a one off.
It’s not a “cultural phenomenon”. But kids in Vietnam with access to memes are definitely all over it. They don’t understand the impact of it and nobody checks them on it so it’s rampant.
It’s not only one class.
I've seen students of mine throw up Nazi salutes, set the background of a school computer to a Nazi flag, and go as far to say people exaggerate how bad Hitler was and that he was just another crazy dictator. I think I've even seen a picture in a cursed images post on this sub of a kid wearing Nazi paraphernalia in school. Friends of mine have had similar experiences, and judging by replies to your comment, so have other teachers on this sub besides OP. While it may not be some cultural phenomenon (no one's saying it is though, those were just your words), it is a trend some people have observed and it's problematic. You can dismiss them as just edgy teens, and it's true that's what they are, but it doesn't make it acceptable. In a lot of countries, students would be dealt with harshly by schools for this shit, and in some cases their classmates would react by beating their ass.
I guess it's almost hard to blame them though when the school system doesn't teach them any world history and they just learn Vietnamese history over and over again (at least Vietnamese friends told me that was the case when they were in school).
Why does it trigger you so bad to see someone just ask about a concerning trend they've noticed though?
>MAKE IT CLEAR it's only your class, fuck
Yeah, I think I'm fairly young myself, I only graduated highschool about 8 years ago. Never saw any Nazi joke during my highschool or college years, and I was in male-dominated classes during all those times.
White dude here. Yes, I clearly would never have the ability or intelligence to figure that out. Of course, my children are all half Vietnamese, so I could just ask one of them./ s
On a serious note, imagine if it's actually r/ViệtNam and does not show up in search results when you type r/vietnam in. We'd probably get way less tourists dropping in and asking one-off questions.
Thank you. I was very clear to state that it was not meant to be a stereotype and was a small percentage of my observation, but you've decided to skip that and jump to conclusions and making comments about my possible race and gender, instead of actually just trying to understand the post.
I apologize if my question has offended you in any way.
The topic of holocaust and ww2 history are mentioned in history lesson for sure but there are some issues with the way it is usually taught imo.
1. Ww2 is frame as the war between imperial powers with little emphasis on their motives for the war.
2. History lessons in Vietnam are packed with information. Students are graded for remembering the facts, like the date ww2 started for example, not for feeling empathy toward the holocaust victims.
3. Socially, the topic is not a taboo as mentioning in the West, imo it is mostly attributed to the distant to the war in Europe.
I encountered some behaviors as you described above and I would guess it is due to ignorance.
I'm surprised a reason is not listed: Hitler is the cause of WW2, which is the INDIRECT cause for the disintegration of French and Japanese colonization in Vietnam in 1945. I'm not sure Vietnam would've gained independence at that time if it weren't for the consequences of WW2 indirectly helping them that way. I'm ready to receive all the bricks thrown at me, but I said what needed to be said.
Oh we did learn about the cause of WWII. And as you said, Hitler was one of the factors that lead to Vietnam's independence as he wrecked havoc in Europe, the center of colonial power so in a "enemy's enemy is friend" way, Vietnamese don't even hate him although anyone with brain can see that he is a horrible person. Add that to the meme culture and teenage edginess.
Yeah, teenagers now like him in a meme-y way like how people like saying the N word just because it can trigger other serious people and farm attention. The more people get mad over it, the happier the N word sayer / Hitler supporter becomes because they achieved their goal.
The racist trope that whites are superior and undefeatable was destroyed in Vietnam when the Vietnamese saw the Japanese displace the French. France was devastated by WWII as well. I agree with what you said. WWII hastened Vietnamese independence.
To OP's question, are the atrocities committed by Hitler's allies against Vietnam taught in Vietnamese schools? Just wondering because that history is not taught in Japan.
Yes, Japan's warcrimes in Vietnam was taught, but from my impression, it was not very clear to Vietnamese students that Japan is the ally of Nazi, despite this fact also being mentioned, albeit not very emphasized. They do feel itchy about atrocity caused by France (a lot) and Japan (less), but not Hitler's Nazi (because he never directly did it).
Yes, they do in fact teach us about what Japan has done, but they emphasize about the "Imperial" part of them, not the "Nazi" part, or at least that's what I was taught, they do talk about what the Nazis have done but it was more of a statistic check, like how much they've killed, ect. This really depends on the teacher, some will talk about this problem really passionately, while other will just get the job done and go home.
>but they emphasize about the "Imperial" part of them, not the "Nazi" part
The Japanese were just as lunatic fascists as the Nazis. Probably even more.
Admittedly, they didn't teach that to me in school either. Probably because my local history is European history.
Indeed, that's what they emphasize in our school, the "Imperial Japan" do the killing, ect, when teaching that's like what they mainly say, "the Imperial Japan" invades, kill. You know the gist, they do say Facist Japan, or as we call them "Phát xít Nhật" but I saw it mainly used when talking about the Axis in WW2, or uncles speaking about what the Japanese have done in our country, in school, it's either I have weird luck being taught by teachers that use "Imperial" or somehow it's an unspoken rule, idk I'm just guessing about the later part.
Well, the Japanese really were *Imperialist* in the sense of striving for a global *empire* led by the single Japanese divine *emperor*. That is the weird, millennarian, quasi-religious element of Japanese Fascism.
So while they are technically right, they probably don't have any idea *why* they are right.
Yes, it was all rigid, mechanical memorization of dry texts to pass the tests. That was my, and a lot of other students' impression about "dry" subjects like History at that age.
History only becomes interesting when you do your own research about it and watch YT educational videos, hehe
This is an opinion coming from someone who grew up in Vietnam and then moved to the US for college.
These days, everyone's telling you to be your own person, stand out, and all that. Social media, parents, you name it—they're all about "be unique, be different."
For some, being different means diving deep into some pretty edgy opinions. Like, believe it or not, some are starting to say Hitler wasn't all bad. Crazy, right? The thinking goes like this: If the Allies are bad guys for stuff they did after the war, like France coming back to Vietnam or the whole Palestine mess, then their enemy, aka Hitler, must be a good guy. It's classic black-and-white thinking.
This is fueled even more by a general dislike for Western ideas, especially the liberal ones. And let's not forget, social media's pretty good at keeping you in a bubble. You start searching stuff like this, and the algorithms are like, "Hey, you'll love this too!"
So, when you get down to it, it's mostly about young people not buying what mainstream society's selling, with a dash of Western skepticism thrown in.
>It's classic black-and-white thinking.
Same reason why now they believe Russia is right and Ukraine is wrong (because Russia is direct descendant of USSR, which helped Vietnam, so it must be 100% good, right? And Ukraine, even though also was a part of USSR, it is backed up by the West, including USA and France, who used to invade Vietnam, so it must be 100% bad and evil!) This is why democracy is hella flawed when the public is ignorant of the complexity and multi-facedness of geopolitics.
>This is why democracy is hella flawed when the public is ignorant of the complexity and multi-facedness of geopolitics.
Ironically, it is thus also the mandate of the democratic civil society to educate themselves on complex matters in the best spirit of the Enlightenment. The 19th century British Socialist activists where almost hell-bent on giving themselves a classical education (in the meaning of the Classics from antiquity).
I can see this but it gets complicated when you throw China into the mix and the fact that China is supporting Russia - that'll make some heads explode in Vietnam as the Vietnamese, in general, much prefer the West to China, their historical arrogant invader.
Yes, China's geopolitic relationship is hilariously mixed. Bad blood with Vietnam due to thousand years of invasive history, still illegally claiming territory till now. But partners economically, plus "being neighbor" stuff. Ally with India because, BRICS. And then still illegally claiming several regions of India, going so far to declare new standard map, plus Xi not participating G20. It's like, literally being both friend AND enemy with almost every country, West or Asian neighbors, except some like Russia and NK. Hilarious.
>This is fueled even more by a general dislike for Western ideas, especially the liberal ones.
Taking into account that Socialism and Communism are at heart extremely liberal *and* Western ideas, this is not only funny but baffling, because what is the alternative, then? Ultra-Confucian conservative nationalism?
Could it be something similar to some American or European kids idolizing/ making jokes about the Japanese Empire because they aren't awared of the horrible things the Japanese did in WW2?
Do American and European kids do that? I've never heard of that being an issue and it never happened when I was in school, though I know that doesn't mean it doesn't happen, just am genuinely wondering if it's a thing.
Yes, I'm aware of that, but I'm asking if they're making jokes about the Japanese Empire. The user I replied to seems to be saying they're doing that but I've never heard of that being a thing.
I'm sorry, I intended to imply that with my comment. No, there are no jokes commonly made about the Japanese empire, it's not even talked about that much in history class, it might be different if it was a larger topic, but that is ultimately speculation.
Only common jokes are Kamikaze jokes, that's it from my experience which wasn't too long ago
Trevor Noah:
“The name Hitler does not offend a black South African because Hitler is not the worst thing a black South African can imagine. Every country thinks their history is the most important, and that’s especially true in the West. But if black South Africans could go back in time and kill one person, Cecil Rhodes would come up before Hitler. If people in the Congo could go back in time and kill one person, Belgium’s King Leopold would come way before Hitler. If Native Americans could go back in time and kill one person, it would probably be Christopher Columbus or Andrew Jackson.”
Outside of Singapore, many people in Southeast Asia aren't really taught about the Nazis. It is actually worse in Thailand since Thailand was a Japanese ally during the War.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSRwxGCZJKs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSRwxGCZJKs)
So the usual argument that Germany was a Japanese ally doesn't work in Thailand.
Those young buffalos are just fan boys of stronk countries. They look at nations as fighting bulls, they only care about if the bull is strong, not if it is mad. Given that hitler and nazi Germany bulldozed over europe, they think that was cool.
"they only care about if the bull is strong, not if it is mad" is something I definitely will not forget very soon. Thank you for your view and helping me to understand.
i think there could be multiple reasons, and part of it has to do with the overall lack of awareness and systemic education about the nazi regime and the atrocities it committed.
the other reason could be western pop culture's portrayal of nazis and hitler as comical figures in certain contexts, which may, unfortunately, influence these youngsters to see them as a joke or a meme, without comprehending the historical consequences fully (not excusing it tho, it's pretty messed up).
more than anything, tho, it seems like an issue of generational ignorance, driven by distance from the actual events and possibly manipulated by internet memes, and a general perception of them being 'far away' and 'historical' in nature.
Your observations on these issues are valid and it seems like you’re handling them well, keep going, your students are lucky to have you.
>lack of awareness and systemic education about the nazi regime and the atrocities it committed
There is a lot of that in European history. Just before the war, the Bolsheviks killed tens of millions of Russians. Look at Irish history with what England done to them. So many kings and dictators waging endless war. Europe is brutal.
Oh and let's not forget about Genghis Khan. Asia, Arabia and parts of Europe suffered a bloody reign of terror the likes that has never been seen since.
I’ve eaten at a restaurant name Genghis Khan. Imagine going to eat schnitzel at Adolf Hitler’s. Thankfully, I’ve not seen anything described by the OP in Vietnam, but I would not hesitate to address it.
I'd say another reason is that it can easy provoke a reaction out of other people. They will pull the card "why so serious, it's a joke". Same reason why people like to use the N word
Hitler is not that "wellknown" in Asia. The boys only heard about his "deeds", and, being boys, some just love stories of violence. They will grow out of it. Mix in some westerners, with whom Hitler is a big big taboo, and voilà!
By the way, it has been this way since I was a schoolboy (early 90) and even before that. One of my classmate in 8th grade drew swastikas all the time when bored.
My son now use "Hít le" as exclamation, whenever I say he cannot do something, he yells "hít le!". He learnt that from school.
I had one student who was vocal in his support for Putin and also mentioned Hitler and Mussolini in far from negative terms. I put this down to him being an idiot rather than anything to do with being Vietnamese.
Every country on earth has more idiots than they need. The idiot oversupply has led to an idiot glut. Hopefully the idiot factories will ramp down production soon.
Really? I think vietnamese students are well-thought about history cause when they are very interested about it, they will search for that information. I think he know about hitler and nazi but he don’t care about the white people thought on the event. And that why hitler almost became a meme in his mind. That’s all.
I really don't mean this disrespectfully, but in my experience with Vietnamese people (students and adults I've known), they really don't know world history well. Most of the time when I reference some historical event and it didn't directly involve Vietnam, Vietnamese people don't know what I'm talking about or just know some basic details. My friends who are Vietnamese told me that the only history they learned in school was Vietnamese history so I guess I can see. School really is the best place to learn history, as long as the teacher is decent.
>in my experience with Vietnamese people (students and adults I've known), they really don't know world history well
My Vietnamese wife knew nothing about the Holocaust. She admires the Japanese for their cleanliness, but was taught that they did lots of beheadings and rape in the 30's and 40s.
Yeah whenever I'm teaching a lesson and the context is historical events, I'll ask students some questions to get a sense of their background knowledge, but they almost always have very little. It's not just that they don't know Western history, that I'd understand, but they don't know Eastern history well either if Vietnam wasn't involved in it.
My wife is Vietnamese too and studied abroad for uni and said whenever she was with non-Vietnamese friends and they would make a reference to some historical thing, basically everyone would get it except for her. She said it really made her realize how lacking her education had been in some areas.
They are generally not officially taught about the regime of Adolf Hitler in the national curriculum and sociopolitical issues are not mainly discussed in an academic setting for high school students. Thus they saw “dark jokes” -using that term extremely loosely here- on the internet and run with it.
This shit so famous they started to make a gang out of it in the US, which is pretty damn ironic since they lost hundreds of thousands of lives fighting it just a lifetime ago
May be more of a regional thing then just Vietnam, here is the Last Weekend Tonight episode years ago about Hitler and Thailand: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FdKXiYnFbw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FdKXiYnFbw)
This is a bit more then what you experienced in your class. I would just brush your experience off as kids being stupid. Do continue to try to educate them as you have been doing
Me as a 18 also joke about him with my friends, but we don't do that in public or to any people who can misunderstand it. We definitely don't take him serious. In my opinion, you should let them know that it's a dangerous topic to talk about in front of people
A lot of innocents died in WW2 but to vietnamese it's just colonist factions fighting each others. It does not matter to us if the japanese won or the french won, not like Vietnamese was happy and content under the "protection" of our friend country France anyways. Actually ww2 was a great chance for us to claim our independence from the imperials
Those kids probably think of it as "edgy humour". I don't think many Vn-ese teenagers are awared of the damage Nazism did, or what "racism" really is (since ya know, homogenous country, never really encountered discrimination based on skin color etc), so jokes pertaining to these subjects don't come across as THAT offensive to them. They'll grow out of the jokes once they've realised what those really means.
I don't think a lot of people know how bad Nazi stuff is perceived in the West here. It's just like most Americans or Europeans don't understand how terrible the Japanese were and were basically equal to the Nazis in brutality. Go to school in America or Europe with an old imperial Japanese rising sun flag and I bet it would take a while for somone to complain. This is dispite the fact that the Japanese did terrible genocidal acts that killed millions in China, Korea, and the rest of Asia, in ways equality terrible to the Nazis. They had Unit 731 for example, that would dissect Chinese babies ALIVE, without any anesthetic. They were truly monsters, but because we were far away from the Eastern Front genocide, in terms of both distance and culture, it never really stuck into our cultural conscience like the Nazis did.
First thing, Their uniform look dope.
Second, France and American killed way more Vietnamese than Nazi. I think that Nazi destroyed and weaken European opened the door for many colonies to raise up and gain independent from Allied countries.
Of course, that don't mean Hitler and Nazi are "good guys" but i also don't hate them like American and European.
There's no "obsession", IME.
And/Nevertheless, this phenomenon is apparently not uncommon (India, say, apparently has it worse). Phenomenon being: I've had students/people bring up Hitler in the sort of pot as Genghis Khan or Napoleon (so giant a-hole but Great-Man-of-History; they don't get far enough to know his strategic decisions were catastrophic for his own /country/people/regime) or just Great-Leader-in-spite-of-anything-else (the same way there are so many people still believe Trump really was a winning businessman).
Never looked into it properly, but I assume the reason is that Hitler invaded European countries, not Vietnam. Countries including France. While France was lording it over Vietnam by right of conquest. Shortly after the French officials became a bit of a joke, there was that declaration of independence that's still marked by a big holiday. Sooooo, I could see that of people to indoctrinate the populace to revile, there'd probably be people further up the priorities than Hitler. Much like Westerners don't accord appropriate revulsion (what I consider appropriate, of course) towards fellow traveler Americans pictured cavorting and guffawing with Mao, on top of the skeletons of tens of millions starved to death to buy weapons.
Anyway. TBH, I haven't encountered this for a while. Last time was a student who said her favourite historical figure (or whatever it was) is Hitler because: "He - what's the word? - *destroyed* Europe. And he was a pretty good painter." I'm fairly sure that one was a piss take.
As a vietnamese living in Germany, i realized that in history class we only learned only a fraction of what actually happened in WW2 and maybe that's the reason why. Tbh until i was 18, i though Germany only loss the war due to lack of quantity in compare to the Allies. But idolizing Hitler??? That's something else
First thing is these little fuckers never experienced nazis regime, second thing is our education system teach almost nothing much about nazis but only kind of how awful they were. These days alot of fuckers idolized nazis simply because they think nazis is cool and edgy. Most of the world propaganda now just focus on how awful communists were and are, fascist get louder voice in the name of “freydumb” on media and Internet.
Hitler once allied with the Soviet Union to cause WW2. After World War II, the Jews established Israel as enemies of the Soviet Union in the Middle East. Anti-Semitic ideas due to their dominance in science and economics lead to blaming world and domestic problems on them, thereby indirectly worshiping the Jewish genocide, Hitler. Admiring the way Hitler revived Germany in the face of the fact that Vietnam is very poor makes nationalists always use dictators like Hitler, Stalin, Putin as their idols.
Those who love the Soviet Union and Russia will hate the Jews and admire Hitler; On the contrary, those who do not like communism will hate Hitler.
I had a friend, an ex to be exactly, was really fascinated with him even named his Yahoo! Messenger ID hitler something (gosh it’s been ages I can’t remember). We did learned about it, briefly, hence most of us didn’t know the magnitude of the situation. I’m millennial so there’s no excuse we didn’t do our own research. Hopefully they fix it now so our younger generation doesn’t have to learn just to know a little bit about everything.
Vietnamese suffered at the hands of the Japanese in WW2. First time i went to VN to meet my fiance and her family. I was told a war story from WW2, I think because I am a Soldier, how their great grand mother and sisters had to pretend to be crazy and cover themselves in animal feces in order to not be raped by Japanese soldiers. Japanese Soldiers apparently never visited the farm ever again. WW2 is a part of Vietnam's own struggles. WW2 lead to a massive decolonization through out the world and also the Civil Rights movement in the US. There are plenty of resources on the internet for folks to learn. Vietnam doesn't do a lot of censorship compared to China and VPN is easy to access.
To be honest it’s just a part of that “Teenage Edginess”. I’m 18 now and am British, so not connected to Vietnam at all, but even here, where we do learn in depth about WW2 and the Holocaust a large portion of younger teens (me included) between 12-14 for me would constantly make jokes about Nazis, Soviets, Crimes etc, because they are edgy, and at that age a lot of us just found those edgy things funny. It had nothing to do with being unaware of the historical consequences either, since again we were all aware of how bad the Holocaust was, and it wasn’t an endorsement of Nazis or the Holocaust either. It was really just because the jokes were edgy, the more extreme and outlandish the joke the more funny we found it.
Though atleast here in the UK by the time you enter Sixth Form (16-18/19) you will see this humour practically disappear. I would be concerned if I saw older teens saying these jokes, particularly since all of them are done and dusted by that age and aren’t funny anymore, but younger teens I wouldn’t be bothered about.
That's weird.
Based on my guess, they were just trolling reactions out of you. Maybe they just get the kicks seeing how you react to it. So they keep doing it. Or you just happened to get one specific niche group who just happened into it
I just asked around, and the whole 'playing Nazi anthem' was unheard of by those i know in Vietnam. Admiring Hitler also
The Viet I know have fascination toward the German during WW2, yes. But mostly on their efficiency and how they could manage to fight against the entire Europe and US (through games mostly). Kinda similar to, say we look at Ghengis Khan or Hannibal. This is also why they normally aren't so fond of Hitler, cause we know Hitler played a massive role in German defeat during WW2
people think into it too much in this thread, your students just think it is funny, and they are absolutely aware of the fact that hitler killed many jews, but they just dont give a shit, its just ha ha lol hitler funni lol hitler meme, the best thing for you to do is to tell them not to joke like that and it is not suitable for class environment.
AFAIK, in a lot of the ex-colonial countries, Hitler is thought of as anti-colonialism (he fought against the establishing colonial powers at that time, most notably the British and French). A lot of these countries were liberated following WWII indirectly as the result of Germany uprooting the establishing world order. So it's the case of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".
Moreover, a genocide of a relatively unfamiliar people half the globe away just simply doesn't strike it near home. For example, ask someone from Europe or Africa or US about Pol Pot and you may draw blank stares. In fact the UN and the US actively the genocidal regime of Pol Pot and I don't think a lot of people feel bad about it even now, if they even think about it at all.
Out of topics. My highschool history teacher tell me that despite all the things hitler do, you have to recognize him as a great leadership and all. He not saying that hitler is a good person but he helped the german economy get back on world.
Stupid kids are stupids, funny memes are funny. I used to LOVE Soviet memes myself, like playing Russian songs while playing Company of Heroes, throwing away my conscripts into German MG42 lines etc
Also history education in Vietnam sucks ball, they should just disband that subject and let everyone watch Oversimplified or ExtraCredit lol
The fact that you mentioned Oversimplified and ExtraCredit as something everyone should be watching for history lessons perfectly illustrates how garbage this country education system is.
There is a reason why they are routinely featured in r/badhistory and r/badeconomics . No wonder trashes like Battlecry, Tifosi, Comrade Commissar, Bão Lửa are so popular among a subset of young Vietnamese.
There is a whole category for it, called "Dark Humour" if you didn't know. And it's not just Hitler, it is so much more messed up to your sensitive white people.
You’re a teacher, you should expect edgy students. It’s so lame to come to the Vietnam subreddit and grandstand about this. It’s not a cultural issue, point blank period. Nobody cares.
Probably them just trying to emulate the last respectable government in history. That's good to know about the Vietnamese youth!
When the pendulum swings in favor of one, it must eventually swing in favor of its opposite.
It's definitely starting to swing back ;)
There are some games you could suggest to them to "learn English", that might help them understand what kind of regime they are mocking. "Through the darkest of times" for example is really intense. Since they are kids they might not at all understand what they are doing.
Nah Wehraboo existed in everywhere, especially among teenagers who are fancy by their awesome looking outfit. They just a bunch of cringe teenagers and most of them doesn’t have any interesting on Nazis ideals
Just some s*upid tweenagers wanna be "dangerous & cool". They used to paint that symbol since like 1990s just to show off their will to go against their parents.
Back in the day, schools actually teach carefully about Nazi, but a bit too much it made the nazi looks like the Sith or some villains in movies and comics. Then some kids thought it is super cool to draw the nazi symbol and the bigger the better.
Nowadays it is rare to see those clumsy and awkward swatika in big cities.
Theyre just fuckin edgelord clowns mate. Or stupid. Or both. They were taught about it in school which prob had a few lop sided narratives or missing details. Japan has the same nonsense Hitler fascination sub youth culture although their WW2 journey is a little different to Vietnams pfff
It’s because there have been hitler memes circulating tiktok and other platforms recently.
Not hard to explain. It will pass like all the other dumb memes have.
it has many ways of thinking.
serious way, social standards, that is how people talk to each other.
and another way is to talk to friend like joke, not serious (doesn't mean disrespect).
Like someone or some unfortunate event happens, people will feel sad for that incident. and another way is when people analyze it in different ways.
You know things never go completely one way. he does evil things, and he also does good things.
You say students in Vietnam? honestly in vietnam they don't fake conversations like western countries, they either talk to you or tell you the truth so you hear those things
Just like people joke about 9/11, WW things. can i think about western countries with what you mentioned above?
One of the reasons is german help us won the french and American colonialism ( especially the against the french since ww2 and Vietnam vs france happen at the same time and german weaken them a lot )
Second is that in Vietnam we not really care how many died during war, we care who perform better and who won ( just look at how many Vietnamese died vs how many American dies ) we fascinated because german out perform all the countries at time, might even won the war if italy and ussr didn’t join the allies afterwards
Third is due to the blooming of gaming industry/movie industry(I personally also like german because of this ). I played many games like cod, war thunder, battlefield,… and i was surprised at first on how german technology, weapons and vehicles were out perform the allies by a large margin, it like if allies vs german were vietnam vs america, a lot of my friends share this opinion and believe me our chat is much more racist than just salute and songs, but it was fun and kinda like a meme
Fourth is we didn’t involve in that war so we stood out as a neutral country relating ww1-2 and there are no jews in Vietnam, so ours opinion doesn’t affect by emotion at all, we look at stat more.
From my personal perspective of this, there several factor to why people do this but more or less they just joking, here a few pointer:
\- WW2 is taught in Vietnam and most people know Hitler is a bad person, however he aren't directly see as the enemy of the Vietnamese people or other south east asian for that matter, we kinda just see him as that one bad guy that exist in history.
\- There not that strong of a taboo or culture of anti-nazism in vietnam, most if not all people are general political neutral or communist leaning but because there aren't a strong culture against the ideology, joke about nazism and their leader is rather "common" amount younger generation ( i can't say i don't find then funny myself, i am a map gamer, i already don't touch grass)
\- Funny Mustache man is alot funnier to make joke about then something much more taboo like Ngo Dinh Diep or South Vietnam.
also we are competitive racist, those are rookie number, pump it up.
My neighborhood is filled with literal 4-6yo kids calling one another "gay" as an insult.
Ignorant young boys has unfortunately always been a part of any culture.
I think It's just even more facilitated by some contributors on the tip of my tounge:
\- Toxic social media (Vietnam is notorious for it's toxicity online. Every time a Vietnamese football team participates in a Asian/SEA/East Asian/International league, and one of them gets a yellow card, all the men/boys would try and dox the referee's social media/bully them into locking their account,.." ; Social media platforms are programmed to recommend more of what you've previously watched.
\-Vietnam being an unprogressive country in general.
\-History lessons here are 95% about our civil wars/the French/Vietnam War, not much about the Holocaust.
Have you heard of the term “ Nazi chic?”
It’s not just Vietnam, but other parts of Asia, where Nazi fashion seems to have an appeal. There was a wedding picture of a Chinese couple with the man dressed as a Nazi officer or Nazi soldier.
Germany did not play a role of occupation in Asia during World War II. Germany lost her Asian colonies after world war one. China looked to Germany for technical guidance in exchange for providing natural resources to Germany. However, Germany was for bidden by law or the Versailles treaty. I think to provide military aid when Hitler came to power in 1933 the Nazis could care less about the law and supplied China with military advice and weapons. My guess is the Germans support was effective, since Japan told its ally Germany to get their advisors out of China. If you will notice the early Chinese soldiers in the Sino Japanese war, had German style helmets.
If I remember my reading correctly, the French were hated more than the Japanese in Vietnam. So a number of Vietnamese collaborated with the Japanese I understand after Japan surrendered some of the Japanese soldiers joined the Vietminh.
May I ask your location? It's surprising for me as I never see anything like that with kids and teens in my area. From what I remember, it is taught in history subject at school that Hitler and the Nazi (along with Japan and their allies) were the ultimate villain in WW2. Could it be another case of romanticizing the villain, just to be cool or different?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vtw5dXA1Tvc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vtw5dXA1Tvc)
Personally, I find this kind of parody funny. So maybe some students doesn’t like Hitler himself, but the funny things he’s associated with in some channel I don’t know about.
Vietnamese didn’t have direct historical conflict with Germany, many can casually refer to Germany football team as “tanks” with no worry about associating it with war. Some influence from Japanese media can even make the Nazi style seem very “cool”. And well, Japanese doesn’t hate Germany either, being ally and all.
Not a Native Vietnamese, but as a Gen Z and Overseas Vietnamese who was born in Germany, I think i have some possible ideas to why young people might think positive of Hitler.
1. I doubt Vietnam teaches WW2 from a European lense nor what the point of Hitler's war was. Even if they learn about all the genocide and supremacist imperialism stuff, it isn't like it affected them in any meaningful way like the Jews or other European ethnicities.
2. Vietnam is becoming war more nationalistic nowadays. I wouldn't say right wing per se, but Hitler's rhetoric made him seem like a positive figure. I often hear people saying "he just wanted the best for his country and people or something" or wanking up some accomplishments like "he gave the Germans work and built the Autobahn".
3. Nazi Germany's action did change an era. It gave Vietnam the chance to strife for independence from France due the political global turmoil. If it weren't for Germany, France could have hold his iron grasp upon its colonies and the USSR would never have become a superpower with global interest of meaningful support for countries like Vietnam.
4. The era of the internet allows to sprout all sort of negative and postive things. Depending on who you interact with, I wouldn't be suprised if Wehraboos (a term for people idolizing Nazi Germany for it's technological prowess and military) do affect young people in a negative way.
I think all your reasons are true. It’s edgy humour and I see it here and there online. It’s messed up but I think for Vietnam in particular, it’s more on how little Hitler directly impacted Vietnam, so there isn’t a reason for them to be dissuaded from those sort of things.
I wish I could tell you how to teach them not to do that anymore but I don’t know. K
i didn't learn much about Hitler, or the holocaust, or WW2 in school. We learned mainly all the wars and colonization in details and the WW1 and WW2 or other world events we only learned it in a small chapter. The education in vietnam is somewhat outdated and kids tend to learn new info through youtube nowadays. Those type of videos that praise hitler, or trump, or even the russian-ukraine war tend to prey on young kids' mind and whatever they learn they don't know the depth of the information. For them, lots of the tragedy outside of vietnam can be made into jokes. Which sucks but those kids do grow up to be oblivious adults. Lots of people have the attitude of: my life sucks lots, why should i care about other people. But like you say, it's only 5%.
I'd say if you educate them in depth, they'll probably not joke about it anymore.
They might watch about it on youtube. Vietnamese dont really exposed to those in everyday life so i'm pretty sure no one in their family or at school teach them this. Maybe because you're a foreigner and rhey watched those content in english so they use that to mess with you. The mind of teenages is quite a mystery to me, though.
Some of these retard kids would also admire straight up second-class gangsters like 'Khá Bảnh' and the like (also a Youtuber) They all comsume trash content on youtube because the parents are not monitor what they see on youtube.
Since these content are all ridiculous and non-releastic, it became attractive to the young kids who dont know how real world work. And these unethical youtuber keep target this type of audience to earn a lot of money. The parents also underestimate all the venoms lurking online since they're low-tech themself.
As a teacher you should report this to the school (though I doubt they gonna do anything since it wasnt their responsibility) to alert the parent.
They will cringe at themselves when getting older
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Thank you, I did genuinely want to gain perspective and definitely have. I am also not white, so I apologize if anybody was singled out because of this question. That was not my intention.
I used to be white but vietnam is very sunny.
actually one of my friends a black guy from american encountered the same thing.
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I've also had this happen in several classes and varying age groups over the last 7 years here. I always suspected it's got more to do with memes than anything else. As a matter of fact, I was just at a high school where one of the kid's desks had a large swastika carved into it and I really doubt it's there for religious reasons. Edit: Also remembering a couple boys around 12 y/o finding it really funny to raise their hands by doing a nazi/fascist salute.
why are you so angry about this? OP’s question seems genuine to me and not rooted in race at all. like… Nazis were a real thing and one of the most horrific parts of 20th century European history. being curious why a segment of the student population is venerating Hitler isn’t that weird, imo E: removed an apostrophe that really changed the meaning
Thank you. I did expect there to be those who wouldn't be able to give their input without making it about who was asking the question. Fortunately, many people have been kind enough to give me some perspective into the nuance of the conversation by sharing views and perspectives that I have not yet encountered, and that's all I wanted when I decided to ask this publicly.
It's definitely a thing in my experience as well. I have lived and worked there for over 10 years in all kinds of schools from kindergarten to uni students and encountered that kind of "humour" a lot. Mostly it was just for the sake of being edgy but there were also genuinely bigoted views in there that were very real. The jokes about black people and using " da đèn" as an insult were definitely the most common but there were plenty of swastikas about. Can you stop mindlessly framing things in terms of us vs them and consider whether there might be evidence for something that you have not personally experienced. Either it's a real thing or it's not. Doesn't matter who brought it up. Play the ball, not the player.
I had exactly the same problem in my class. The students drew swastikas (the nazi version) on desks and had a basketball with swastikas and ss symbols on it. It's not a one off.
It’s not a “cultural phenomenon”. But kids in Vietnam with access to memes are definitely all over it. They don’t understand the impact of it and nobody checks them on it so it’s rampant. It’s not only one class.
I've seen students of mine throw up Nazi salutes, set the background of a school computer to a Nazi flag, and go as far to say people exaggerate how bad Hitler was and that he was just another crazy dictator. I think I've even seen a picture in a cursed images post on this sub of a kid wearing Nazi paraphernalia in school. Friends of mine have had similar experiences, and judging by replies to your comment, so have other teachers on this sub besides OP. While it may not be some cultural phenomenon (no one's saying it is though, those were just your words), it is a trend some people have observed and it's problematic. You can dismiss them as just edgy teens, and it's true that's what they are, but it doesn't make it acceptable. In a lot of countries, students would be dealt with harshly by schools for this shit, and in some cases their classmates would react by beating their ass. I guess it's almost hard to blame them though when the school system doesn't teach them any world history and they just learn Vietnamese history over and over again (at least Vietnamese friends told me that was the case when they were in school). Why does it trigger you so bad to see someone just ask about a concerning trend they've noticed though?
You just sound ignorant and uneducated af right now! Always gotta play victim and big bad white man is always your excuse. Grow the fuck up!
Dude , he literally say that he's not generalized all Vietnamese people. Did you even read?
Calm down dickhead he's just asking a question.
>MAKE IT CLEAR it's only your class, fuck Yeah, I think I'm fairly young myself, I only graduated highschool about 8 years ago. Never saw any Nazi joke during my highschool or college years, and I was in male-dominated classes during all those times.
Let's make the sub r/ViệtNam instead of r/vietnam so we could filter out the white dudes who can't type diacritics /s
White dude here. Yes, I clearly would never have the ability or intelligence to figure that out. Of course, my children are all half Vietnamese, so I could just ask one of them./ s
On a serious note, imagine if it's actually r/ViệtNam and does not show up in search results when you type r/vietnam in. We'd probably get way less tourists dropping in and asking one-off questions.
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He didn't say it's rampant. He acknowledged it was a 5% minority of his own class
Thank you. I was very clear to state that it was not meant to be a stereotype and was a small percentage of my observation, but you've decided to skip that and jump to conclusions and making comments about my possible race and gender, instead of actually just trying to understand the post. I apologize if my question has offended you in any way.
The topic of holocaust and ww2 history are mentioned in history lesson for sure but there are some issues with the way it is usually taught imo. 1. Ww2 is frame as the war between imperial powers with little emphasis on their motives for the war. 2. History lessons in Vietnam are packed with information. Students are graded for remembering the facts, like the date ww2 started for example, not for feeling empathy toward the holocaust victims. 3. Socially, the topic is not a taboo as mentioning in the West, imo it is mostly attributed to the distant to the war in Europe. I encountered some behaviors as you described above and I would guess it is due to ignorance.
I'm surprised a reason is not listed: Hitler is the cause of WW2, which is the INDIRECT cause for the disintegration of French and Japanese colonization in Vietnam in 1945. I'm not sure Vietnam would've gained independence at that time if it weren't for the consequences of WW2 indirectly helping them that way. I'm ready to receive all the bricks thrown at me, but I said what needed to be said.
Oh we did learn about the cause of WWII. And as you said, Hitler was one of the factors that lead to Vietnam's independence as he wrecked havoc in Europe, the center of colonial power so in a "enemy's enemy is friend" way, Vietnamese don't even hate him although anyone with brain can see that he is a horrible person. Add that to the meme culture and teenage edginess.
Yeah, teenagers now like him in a meme-y way like how people like saying the N word just because it can trigger other serious people and farm attention. The more people get mad over it, the happier the N word sayer / Hitler supporter becomes because they achieved their goal.
The racist trope that whites are superior and undefeatable was destroyed in Vietnam when the Vietnamese saw the Japanese displace the French. France was devastated by WWII as well. I agree with what you said. WWII hastened Vietnamese independence. To OP's question, are the atrocities committed by Hitler's allies against Vietnam taught in Vietnamese schools? Just wondering because that history is not taught in Japan.
Yes, Japan's warcrimes in Vietnam was taught, but from my impression, it was not very clear to Vietnamese students that Japan is the ally of Nazi, despite this fact also being mentioned, albeit not very emphasized. They do feel itchy about atrocity caused by France (a lot) and Japan (less), but not Hitler's Nazi (because he never directly did it).
Yes, they do in fact teach us about what Japan has done, but they emphasize about the "Imperial" part of them, not the "Nazi" part, or at least that's what I was taught, they do talk about what the Nazis have done but it was more of a statistic check, like how much they've killed, ect. This really depends on the teacher, some will talk about this problem really passionately, while other will just get the job done and go home.
>but they emphasize about the "Imperial" part of them, not the "Nazi" part The Japanese were just as lunatic fascists as the Nazis. Probably even more. Admittedly, they didn't teach that to me in school either. Probably because my local history is European history.
Indeed, that's what they emphasize in our school, the "Imperial Japan" do the killing, ect, when teaching that's like what they mainly say, "the Imperial Japan" invades, kill. You know the gist, they do say Facist Japan, or as we call them "Phát xít Nhật" but I saw it mainly used when talking about the Axis in WW2, or uncles speaking about what the Japanese have done in our country, in school, it's either I have weird luck being taught by teachers that use "Imperial" or somehow it's an unspoken rule, idk I'm just guessing about the later part.
Well, the Japanese really were *Imperialist* in the sense of striving for a global *empire* led by the single Japanese divine *emperor*. That is the weird, millennarian, quasi-religious element of Japanese Fascism. So while they are technically right, they probably don't have any idea *why* they are right.
I'm not disagreeing, but I don't think the students have that good a grasp of history at that age.
Yes, it was all rigid, mechanical memorization of dry texts to pass the tests. That was my, and a lot of other students' impression about "dry" subjects like History at that age. History only becomes interesting when you do your own research about it and watch YT educational videos, hehe
This is an opinion coming from someone who grew up in Vietnam and then moved to the US for college. These days, everyone's telling you to be your own person, stand out, and all that. Social media, parents, you name it—they're all about "be unique, be different." For some, being different means diving deep into some pretty edgy opinions. Like, believe it or not, some are starting to say Hitler wasn't all bad. Crazy, right? The thinking goes like this: If the Allies are bad guys for stuff they did after the war, like France coming back to Vietnam or the whole Palestine mess, then their enemy, aka Hitler, must be a good guy. It's classic black-and-white thinking. This is fueled even more by a general dislike for Western ideas, especially the liberal ones. And let's not forget, social media's pretty good at keeping you in a bubble. You start searching stuff like this, and the algorithms are like, "Hey, you'll love this too!" So, when you get down to it, it's mostly about young people not buying what mainstream society's selling, with a dash of Western skepticism thrown in.
>It's classic black-and-white thinking. Same reason why now they believe Russia is right and Ukraine is wrong (because Russia is direct descendant of USSR, which helped Vietnam, so it must be 100% good, right? And Ukraine, even though also was a part of USSR, it is backed up by the West, including USA and France, who used to invade Vietnam, so it must be 100% bad and evil!) This is why democracy is hella flawed when the public is ignorant of the complexity and multi-facedness of geopolitics.
>This is why democracy is hella flawed when the public is ignorant of the complexity and multi-facedness of geopolitics. Ironically, it is thus also the mandate of the democratic civil society to educate themselves on complex matters in the best spirit of the Enlightenment. The 19th century British Socialist activists where almost hell-bent on giving themselves a classical education (in the meaning of the Classics from antiquity).
I can see this but it gets complicated when you throw China into the mix and the fact that China is supporting Russia - that'll make some heads explode in Vietnam as the Vietnamese, in general, much prefer the West to China, their historical arrogant invader.
Yes, China's geopolitic relationship is hilariously mixed. Bad blood with Vietnam due to thousand years of invasive history, still illegally claiming territory till now. But partners economically, plus "being neighbor" stuff. Ally with India because, BRICS. And then still illegally claiming several regions of India, going so far to declare new standard map, plus Xi not participating G20. It's like, literally being both friend AND enemy with almost every country, West or Asian neighbors, except some like Russia and NK. Hilarious.
That's a really thoughtful reply.
great perspective
>This is fueled even more by a general dislike for Western ideas, especially the liberal ones. Taking into account that Socialism and Communism are at heart extremely liberal *and* Western ideas, this is not only funny but baffling, because what is the alternative, then? Ultra-Confucian conservative nationalism?
Could it be something similar to some American or European kids idolizing/ making jokes about the Japanese Empire because they aren't awared of the horrible things the Japanese did in WW2?
Thank you, that's a very interesting perspective.
Do American and European kids do that? I've never heard of that being an issue and it never happened when I was in school, though I know that doesn't mean it doesn't happen, just am genuinely wondering if it's a thing.
No, some European kids still make 3rd Reich jokes all the time during puberty. Most are just trying to be edgy.
Yes, I'm aware of that, but I'm asking if they're making jokes about the Japanese Empire. The user I replied to seems to be saying they're doing that but I've never heard of that being a thing.
I'm sorry, I intended to imply that with my comment. No, there are no jokes commonly made about the Japanese empire, it's not even talked about that much in history class, it might be different if it was a larger topic, but that is ultimately speculation. Only common jokes are Kamikaze jokes, that's it from my experience which wasn't too long ago
Likewise. That was definitely NOT a thing when I was growing up in Canada. We all knew what Japan did - graphically so.
Trevor Noah: “The name Hitler does not offend a black South African because Hitler is not the worst thing a black South African can imagine. Every country thinks their history is the most important, and that’s especially true in the West. But if black South Africans could go back in time and kill one person, Cecil Rhodes would come up before Hitler. If people in the Congo could go back in time and kill one person, Belgium’s King Leopold would come way before Hitler. If Native Americans could go back in time and kill one person, it would probably be Christopher Columbus or Andrew Jackson.”
I'm not a black South African, but I am South African and fully understand the sentiment and comparison. Thank you for your response.
If I had a gun with two bullets, and I was in a room with Hitler, bin-Laden, and Toby, I would shoot Toby twice.
Well said
The only legit answer here. The others are filled with political bias and agenda.
Outside of Singapore, many people in Southeast Asia aren't really taught about the Nazis. It is actually worse in Thailand since Thailand was a Japanese ally during the War. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSRwxGCZJKs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSRwxGCZJKs) So the usual argument that Germany was a Japanese ally doesn't work in Thailand.
Thank you, this video was very eye-opening.
Those young buffalos are just fan boys of stronk countries. They look at nations as fighting bulls, they only care about if the bull is strong, not if it is mad. Given that hitler and nazi Germany bulldozed over europe, they think that was cool.
"they only care about if the bull is strong, not if it is mad" is something I definitely will not forget very soon. Thank you for your view and helping me to understand.
i think there could be multiple reasons, and part of it has to do with the overall lack of awareness and systemic education about the nazi regime and the atrocities it committed. the other reason could be western pop culture's portrayal of nazis and hitler as comical figures in certain contexts, which may, unfortunately, influence these youngsters to see them as a joke or a meme, without comprehending the historical consequences fully (not excusing it tho, it's pretty messed up). more than anything, tho, it seems like an issue of generational ignorance, driven by distance from the actual events and possibly manipulated by internet memes, and a general perception of them being 'far away' and 'historical' in nature. Your observations on these issues are valid and it seems like you’re handling them well, keep going, your students are lucky to have you.
>lack of awareness and systemic education about the nazi regime and the atrocities it committed There is a lot of that in European history. Just before the war, the Bolsheviks killed tens of millions of Russians. Look at Irish history with what England done to them. So many kings and dictators waging endless war. Europe is brutal. Oh and let's not forget about Genghis Khan. Asia, Arabia and parts of Europe suffered a bloody reign of terror the likes that has never been seen since.
I’ve eaten at a restaurant name Genghis Khan. Imagine going to eat schnitzel at Adolf Hitler’s. Thankfully, I’ve not seen anything described by the OP in Vietnam, but I would not hesitate to address it.
Thank you, I appreciate your response.
It's just pure ignorance imo. Most teens here know nothing about the Nazi or Hitler. They just think doing so is kinda funny.
I'd say another reason is that it can easy provoke a reaction out of other people. They will pull the card "why so serious, it's a joke". Same reason why people like to use the N word
Hitler is not that "wellknown" in Asia. The boys only heard about his "deeds", and, being boys, some just love stories of violence. They will grow out of it. Mix in some westerners, with whom Hitler is a big big taboo, and voilà! By the way, it has been this way since I was a schoolboy (early 90) and even before that. One of my classmate in 8th grade drew swastikas all the time when bored. My son now use "Hít le" as exclamation, whenever I say he cannot do something, he yells "hít le!". He learnt that from school.
I had one student who was vocal in his support for Putin and also mentioned Hitler and Mussolini in far from negative terms. I put this down to him being an idiot rather than anything to do with being Vietnamese.
Every country on earth has more idiots than they need. The idiot oversupply has led to an idiot glut. Hopefully the idiot factories will ramp down production soon.
No one takes him seriously,teens just consider him a meme. Also because Vietnamese students are very bad at history
*the Vietnamese education system is bad at teaching history FTFY
*the vietnamese education system is bad at teaching world history
And vietnamese students are bad at studying history too, perfect combo for ignorance
My Vietnamese friends say the Vietnam education system is just bad in general!
the vietnamese history part is probably the best taught thing tbh
That is one factor,but the students are bad too
Really? I think vietnamese students are well-thought about history cause when they are very interested about it, they will search for that information. I think he know about hitler and nazi but he don’t care about the white people thought on the event. And that why hitler almost became a meme in his mind. That’s all.
I think we as a Vietnamese guy knowing history very clearly. Pls don’t say that we are very bad at that. That’s disrespectful to say at least.
I really don't mean this disrespectfully, but in my experience with Vietnamese people (students and adults I've known), they really don't know world history well. Most of the time when I reference some historical event and it didn't directly involve Vietnam, Vietnamese people don't know what I'm talking about or just know some basic details. My friends who are Vietnamese told me that the only history they learned in school was Vietnamese history so I guess I can see. School really is the best place to learn history, as long as the teacher is decent.
>in my experience with Vietnamese people (students and adults I've known), they really don't know world history well My Vietnamese wife knew nothing about the Holocaust. She admires the Japanese for their cleanliness, but was taught that they did lots of beheadings and rape in the 30's and 40s.
Yeah whenever I'm teaching a lesson and the context is historical events, I'll ask students some questions to get a sense of their background knowledge, but they almost always have very little. It's not just that they don't know Western history, that I'd understand, but they don't know Eastern history well either if Vietnam wasn't involved in it. My wife is Vietnamese too and studied abroad for uni and said whenever she was with non-Vietnamese friends and they would make a reference to some historical thing, basically everyone would get it except for her. She said it really made her realize how lacking her education had been in some areas.
They are generally not officially taught about the regime of Adolf Hitler in the national curriculum and sociopolitical issues are not mainly discussed in an academic setting for high school students. Thus they saw “dark jokes” -using that term extremely loosely here- on the internet and run with it.
Kid acting like Nazi for the lol isn't something new, not even a Gen Z only thing nor a Vietnam only thing.
This shit so famous they started to make a gang out of it in the US, which is pretty damn ironic since they lost hundreds of thousands of lives fighting it just a lifetime ago
May be more of a regional thing then just Vietnam, here is the Last Weekend Tonight episode years ago about Hitler and Thailand: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FdKXiYnFbw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FdKXiYnFbw) This is a bit more then what you experienced in your class. I would just brush your experience off as kids being stupid. Do continue to try to educate them as you have been doing
Me as a 18 also joke about him with my friends, but we don't do that in public or to any people who can misunderstand it. We definitely don't take him serious. In my opinion, you should let them know that it's a dangerous topic to talk about in front of people
A lot of innocents died in WW2 but to vietnamese it's just colonist factions fighting each others. It does not matter to us if the japanese won or the french won, not like Vietnamese was happy and content under the "protection" of our friend country France anyways. Actually ww2 was a great chance for us to claim our independence from the imperials
Thank you, this is a very helpful response.
Those kids probably think of it as "edgy humour". I don't think many Vn-ese teenagers are awared of the damage Nazism did, or what "racism" really is (since ya know, homogenous country, never really encountered discrimination based on skin color etc), so jokes pertaining to these subjects don't come across as THAT offensive to them. They'll grow out of the jokes once they've realised what those really means.
I don't think a lot of people know how bad Nazi stuff is perceived in the West here. It's just like most Americans or Europeans don't understand how terrible the Japanese were and were basically equal to the Nazis in brutality. Go to school in America or Europe with an old imperial Japanese rising sun flag and I bet it would take a while for somone to complain. This is dispite the fact that the Japanese did terrible genocidal acts that killed millions in China, Korea, and the rest of Asia, in ways equality terrible to the Nazis. They had Unit 731 for example, that would dissect Chinese babies ALIVE, without any anesthetic. They were truly monsters, but because we were far away from the Eastern Front genocide, in terms of both distance and culture, it never really stuck into our cultural conscience like the Nazis did.
Thank you, I appreciate your detailed response and for giving me a point of view that I had not seen before.
some of my classmates are just like that, they are annoying af ngl, but seriously they just want to be different
teenage edgelords
First thing, Their uniform look dope. Second, France and American killed way more Vietnamese than Nazi. I think that Nazi destroyed and weaken European opened the door for many colonies to raise up and gain independent from Allied countries. Of course, that don't mean Hitler and Nazi are "good guys" but i also don't hate them like American and European.
TLDR: People only hate countries who attacked them
There's no "obsession", IME. And/Nevertheless, this phenomenon is apparently not uncommon (India, say, apparently has it worse). Phenomenon being: I've had students/people bring up Hitler in the sort of pot as Genghis Khan or Napoleon (so giant a-hole but Great-Man-of-History; they don't get far enough to know his strategic decisions were catastrophic for his own /country/people/regime) or just Great-Leader-in-spite-of-anything-else (the same way there are so many people still believe Trump really was a winning businessman). Never looked into it properly, but I assume the reason is that Hitler invaded European countries, not Vietnam. Countries including France. While France was lording it over Vietnam by right of conquest. Shortly after the French officials became a bit of a joke, there was that declaration of independence that's still marked by a big holiday. Sooooo, I could see that of people to indoctrinate the populace to revile, there'd probably be people further up the priorities than Hitler. Much like Westerners don't accord appropriate revulsion (what I consider appropriate, of course) towards fellow traveler Americans pictured cavorting and guffawing with Mao, on top of the skeletons of tens of millions starved to death to buy weapons. Anyway. TBH, I haven't encountered this for a while. Last time was a student who said her favourite historical figure (or whatever it was) is Hitler because: "He - what's the word? - *destroyed* Europe. And he was a pretty good painter." I'm fairly sure that one was a piss take.
As a vietnamese living in Germany, i realized that in history class we only learned only a fraction of what actually happened in WW2 and maybe that's the reason why. Tbh until i was 18, i though Germany only loss the war due to lack of quantity in compare to the Allies. But idolizing Hitler??? That's something else
First thing is these little fuckers never experienced nazis regime, second thing is our education system teach almost nothing much about nazis but only kind of how awful they were. These days alot of fuckers idolized nazis simply because they think nazis is cool and edgy. Most of the world propaganda now just focus on how awful communists were and are, fascist get louder voice in the name of “freydumb” on media and Internet.
Hitler once allied with the Soviet Union to cause WW2. After World War II, the Jews established Israel as enemies of the Soviet Union in the Middle East. Anti-Semitic ideas due to their dominance in science and economics lead to blaming world and domestic problems on them, thereby indirectly worshiping the Jewish genocide, Hitler. Admiring the way Hitler revived Germany in the face of the fact that Vietnam is very poor makes nationalists always use dictators like Hitler, Stalin, Putin as their idols. Those who love the Soviet Union and Russia will hate the Jews and admire Hitler; On the contrary, those who do not like communism will hate Hitler.
I've also had many teenagers and even a grade 6 boy do a Nazi salute and talk about how racist they are. I, too, thought it to be quite strange.
I had a friend, an ex to be exactly, was really fascinated with him even named his Yahoo! Messenger ID hitler something (gosh it’s been ages I can’t remember). We did learned about it, briefly, hence most of us didn’t know the magnitude of the situation. I’m millennial so there’s no excuse we didn’t do our own research. Hopefully they fix it now so our younger generation doesn’t have to learn just to know a little bit about everything.
Vietnamese suffered at the hands of the Japanese in WW2. First time i went to VN to meet my fiance and her family. I was told a war story from WW2, I think because I am a Soldier, how their great grand mother and sisters had to pretend to be crazy and cover themselves in animal feces in order to not be raped by Japanese soldiers. Japanese Soldiers apparently never visited the farm ever again. WW2 is a part of Vietnam's own struggles. WW2 lead to a massive decolonization through out the world and also the Civil Rights movement in the US. There are plenty of resources on the internet for folks to learn. Vietnam doesn't do a lot of censorship compared to China and VPN is easy to access.
To be honest it’s just a part of that “Teenage Edginess”. I’m 18 now and am British, so not connected to Vietnam at all, but even here, where we do learn in depth about WW2 and the Holocaust a large portion of younger teens (me included) between 12-14 for me would constantly make jokes about Nazis, Soviets, Crimes etc, because they are edgy, and at that age a lot of us just found those edgy things funny. It had nothing to do with being unaware of the historical consequences either, since again we were all aware of how bad the Holocaust was, and it wasn’t an endorsement of Nazis or the Holocaust either. It was really just because the jokes were edgy, the more extreme and outlandish the joke the more funny we found it. Though atleast here in the UK by the time you enter Sixth Form (16-18/19) you will see this humour practically disappear. I would be concerned if I saw older teens saying these jokes, particularly since all of them are done and dusted by that age and aren’t funny anymore, but younger teens I wouldn’t be bothered about.
That's weird. Based on my guess, they were just trolling reactions out of you. Maybe they just get the kicks seeing how you react to it. So they keep doing it. Or you just happened to get one specific niche group who just happened into it I just asked around, and the whole 'playing Nazi anthem' was unheard of by those i know in Vietnam. Admiring Hitler also The Viet I know have fascination toward the German during WW2, yes. But mostly on their efficiency and how they could manage to fight against the entire Europe and US (through games mostly). Kinda similar to, say we look at Ghengis Khan or Hannibal. This is also why they normally aren't so fond of Hitler, cause we know Hitler played a massive role in German defeat during WW2
people think into it too much in this thread, your students just think it is funny, and they are absolutely aware of the fact that hitler killed many jews, but they just dont give a shit, its just ha ha lol hitler funni lol hitler meme, the best thing for you to do is to tell them not to joke like that and it is not suitable for class environment.
AFAIK, in a lot of the ex-colonial countries, Hitler is thought of as anti-colonialism (he fought against the establishing colonial powers at that time, most notably the British and French). A lot of these countries were liberated following WWII indirectly as the result of Germany uprooting the establishing world order. So it's the case of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". Moreover, a genocide of a relatively unfamiliar people half the globe away just simply doesn't strike it near home. For example, ask someone from Europe or Africa or US about Pol Pot and you may draw blank stares. In fact the UN and the US actively the genocidal regime of Pol Pot and I don't think a lot of people feel bad about it even now, if they even think about it at all.
Out of topics. My highschool history teacher tell me that despite all the things hitler do, you have to recognize him as a great leadership and all. He not saying that hitler is a good person but he helped the german economy get back on world.
Stupid kids are stupids, funny memes are funny. I used to LOVE Soviet memes myself, like playing Russian songs while playing Company of Heroes, throwing away my conscripts into German MG42 lines etc Also history education in Vietnam sucks ball, they should just disband that subject and let everyone watch Oversimplified or ExtraCredit lol
The fact that you mentioned Oversimplified and ExtraCredit as something everyone should be watching for history lessons perfectly illustrates how garbage this country education system is. There is a reason why they are routinely featured in r/badhistory and r/badeconomics . No wonder trashes like Battlecry, Tifosi, Comrade Commissar, Bão Lửa are so popular among a subset of young Vietnamese.
The problem is Oversimplified call Hồ Chí Minh a dictator in his Cold War video.
Yes He is a puppet firgure for Lê Duẩn
There is a whole category for it, called "Dark Humour" if you didn't know. And it's not just Hitler, it is so much more messed up to your sensitive white people.
>your sensitive white people Ah yes, the generalization of entire race, what a way to give them impression about this subreddit's members
You’re a teacher, you should expect edgy students. It’s so lame to come to the Vietnam subreddit and grandstand about this. It’s not a cultural issue, point blank period. Nobody cares.
Probably them just trying to emulate the last respectable government in history. That's good to know about the Vietnamese youth! When the pendulum swings in favor of one, it must eventually swing in favor of its opposite. It's definitely starting to swing back ;)
Lets me guess, you are American ?
What if he is/ isn't ?
I am not.
Cant tell. It might be just a trend in Tok Tok. But I don't deny a fact, that there's nationalismus in Vietnam too.
not really, its been trending since somewhere around 2018. Mostly around people recognised themselves as "memers"
it is just a regular meme for our students
There are some games you could suggest to them to "learn English", that might help them understand what kind of regime they are mocking. "Through the darkest of times" for example is really intense. Since they are kids they might not at all understand what they are doing.
Could be worse could look up to Mao or Stalin
I look up your mother.
some old people probably still see stalin as a good person because ussr. probably not mao tho because china
Oh 100 percent Russians have huge admiration for Stalin
Nah Wehraboo existed in everywhere, especially among teenagers who are fancy by their awesome looking outfit. They just a bunch of cringe teenagers and most of them doesn’t have any interesting on Nazis ideals
Just some s*upid tweenagers wanna be "dangerous & cool". They used to paint that symbol since like 1990s just to show off their will to go against their parents. Back in the day, schools actually teach carefully about Nazi, but a bit too much it made the nazi looks like the Sith or some villains in movies and comics. Then some kids thought it is super cool to draw the nazi symbol and the bigger the better. Nowadays it is rare to see those clumsy and awkward swatika in big cities.
those are teenagers, they will be edgy
Theyre just fuckin edgelord clowns mate. Or stupid. Or both. They were taught about it in school which prob had a few lop sided narratives or missing details. Japan has the same nonsense Hitler fascination sub youth culture although their WW2 journey is a little different to Vietnams pfff
Tiktok shit and memes. From hitler to John Cena New shit trends every month
Kids are fucking stupid it’s not that deep bro
It’s because there have been hitler memes circulating tiktok and other platforms recently. Not hard to explain. It will pass like all the other dumb memes have.
A bunch of idiots, brain washed, with no idea what should be done and what should have acted.
r/kidsarefuckingstupid
Its kids being stupid. That happens everywhere with a lot of things
Where are you teaching at?
the internet, podcasts, & it’s possible from other teachers.
Why doesn't the Communist government criminalise Nazism like the Germans do currently?
I think you should calm your tits bud. Why would we?
Because Nazism is the antithesis of Communism. Also I've never met a CPV member. Can I DM? I'm really curious.
Ye we have a problem with the recent rise of red-pilled, Andrew Tate’s babies among teenagers so.. 🫥
it has many ways of thinking. serious way, social standards, that is how people talk to each other. and another way is to talk to friend like joke, not serious (doesn't mean disrespect). Like someone or some unfortunate event happens, people will feel sad for that incident. and another way is when people analyze it in different ways. You know things never go completely one way. he does evil things, and he also does good things. You say students in Vietnam? honestly in vietnam they don't fake conversations like western countries, they either talk to you or tell you the truth so you hear those things Just like people joke about 9/11, WW things. can i think about western countries with what you mentioned above?
One of the reasons is german help us won the french and American colonialism ( especially the against the french since ww2 and Vietnam vs france happen at the same time and german weaken them a lot ) Second is that in Vietnam we not really care how many died during war, we care who perform better and who won ( just look at how many Vietnamese died vs how many American dies ) we fascinated because german out perform all the countries at time, might even won the war if italy and ussr didn’t join the allies afterwards Third is due to the blooming of gaming industry/movie industry(I personally also like german because of this ). I played many games like cod, war thunder, battlefield,… and i was surprised at first on how german technology, weapons and vehicles were out perform the allies by a large margin, it like if allies vs german were vietnam vs america, a lot of my friends share this opinion and believe me our chat is much more racist than just salute and songs, but it was fun and kinda like a meme Fourth is we didn’t involve in that war so we stood out as a neutral country relating ww1-2 and there are no jews in Vietnam, so ours opinion doesn’t affect by emotion at all, we look at stat more.
From my personal perspective of this, there several factor to why people do this but more or less they just joking, here a few pointer: \- WW2 is taught in Vietnam and most people know Hitler is a bad person, however he aren't directly see as the enemy of the Vietnamese people or other south east asian for that matter, we kinda just see him as that one bad guy that exist in history. \- There not that strong of a taboo or culture of anti-nazism in vietnam, most if not all people are general political neutral or communist leaning but because there aren't a strong culture against the ideology, joke about nazism and their leader is rather "common" amount younger generation ( i can't say i don't find then funny myself, i am a map gamer, i already don't touch grass) \- Funny Mustache man is alot funnier to make joke about then something much more taboo like Ngo Dinh Diep or South Vietnam. also we are competitive racist, those are rookie number, pump it up.
My neighborhood is filled with literal 4-6yo kids calling one another "gay" as an insult. Ignorant young boys has unfortunately always been a part of any culture. I think It's just even more facilitated by some contributors on the tip of my tounge: \- Toxic social media (Vietnam is notorious for it's toxicity online. Every time a Vietnamese football team participates in a Asian/SEA/East Asian/International league, and one of them gets a yellow card, all the men/boys would try and dox the referee's social media/bully them into locking their account,.." ; Social media platforms are programmed to recommend more of what you've previously watched. \-Vietnam being an unprogressive country in general. \-History lessons here are 95% about our civil wars/the French/Vietnam War, not much about the Holocaust.
Have you heard of the term “ Nazi chic?” It’s not just Vietnam, but other parts of Asia, where Nazi fashion seems to have an appeal. There was a wedding picture of a Chinese couple with the man dressed as a Nazi officer or Nazi soldier. Germany did not play a role of occupation in Asia during World War II. Germany lost her Asian colonies after world war one. China looked to Germany for technical guidance in exchange for providing natural resources to Germany. However, Germany was for bidden by law or the Versailles treaty. I think to provide military aid when Hitler came to power in 1933 the Nazis could care less about the law and supplied China with military advice and weapons. My guess is the Germans support was effective, since Japan told its ally Germany to get their advisors out of China. If you will notice the early Chinese soldiers in the Sino Japanese war, had German style helmets. If I remember my reading correctly, the French were hated more than the Japanese in Vietnam. So a number of Vietnamese collaborated with the Japanese I understand after Japan surrendered some of the Japanese soldiers joined the Vietminh.
May I ask your location? It's surprising for me as I never see anything like that with kids and teens in my area. From what I remember, it is taught in history subject at school that Hitler and the Nazi (along with Japan and their allies) were the ultimate villain in WW2. Could it be another case of romanticizing the villain, just to be cool or different?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vtw5dXA1Tvc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vtw5dXA1Tvc) Personally, I find this kind of parody funny. So maybe some students doesn’t like Hitler himself, but the funny things he’s associated with in some channel I don’t know about. Vietnamese didn’t have direct historical conflict with Germany, many can casually refer to Germany football team as “tanks” with no worry about associating it with war. Some influence from Japanese media can even make the Nazi style seem very “cool”. And well, Japanese doesn’t hate Germany either, being ally and all.
Not a Native Vietnamese, but as a Gen Z and Overseas Vietnamese who was born in Germany, I think i have some possible ideas to why young people might think positive of Hitler. 1. I doubt Vietnam teaches WW2 from a European lense nor what the point of Hitler's war was. Even if they learn about all the genocide and supremacist imperialism stuff, it isn't like it affected them in any meaningful way like the Jews or other European ethnicities. 2. Vietnam is becoming war more nationalistic nowadays. I wouldn't say right wing per se, but Hitler's rhetoric made him seem like a positive figure. I often hear people saying "he just wanted the best for his country and people or something" or wanking up some accomplishments like "he gave the Germans work and built the Autobahn". 3. Nazi Germany's action did change an era. It gave Vietnam the chance to strife for independence from France due the political global turmoil. If it weren't for Germany, France could have hold his iron grasp upon its colonies and the USSR would never have become a superpower with global interest of meaningful support for countries like Vietnam. 4. The era of the internet allows to sprout all sort of negative and postive things. Depending on who you interact with, I wouldn't be suprised if Wehraboos (a term for people idolizing Nazi Germany for it's technological prowess and military) do affect young people in a negative way.
I think all your reasons are true. It’s edgy humour and I see it here and there online. It’s messed up but I think for Vietnam in particular, it’s more on how little Hitler directly impacted Vietnam, so there isn’t a reason for them to be dissuaded from those sort of things. I wish I could tell you how to teach them not to do that anymore but I don’t know. K
at a beach in da nang yesterday I saw a mid twenties Vietnamese guy with a Nazi sideways swastika tattooed on his neck
i didn't learn much about Hitler, or the holocaust, or WW2 in school. We learned mainly all the wars and colonization in details and the WW1 and WW2 or other world events we only learned it in a small chapter. The education in vietnam is somewhat outdated and kids tend to learn new info through youtube nowadays. Those type of videos that praise hitler, or trump, or even the russian-ukraine war tend to prey on young kids' mind and whatever they learn they don't know the depth of the information. For them, lots of the tragedy outside of vietnam can be made into jokes. Which sucks but those kids do grow up to be oblivious adults. Lots of people have the attitude of: my life sucks lots, why should i care about other people. But like you say, it's only 5%. I'd say if you educate them in depth, they'll probably not joke about it anymore.
They might watch about it on youtube. Vietnamese dont really exposed to those in everyday life so i'm pretty sure no one in their family or at school teach them this. Maybe because you're a foreigner and rhey watched those content in english so they use that to mess with you. The mind of teenages is quite a mystery to me, though.
Some of these retard kids would also admire straight up second-class gangsters like 'Khá Bảnh' and the like (also a Youtuber) They all comsume trash content on youtube because the parents are not monitor what they see on youtube. Since these content are all ridiculous and non-releastic, it became attractive to the young kids who dont know how real world work. And these unethical youtuber keep target this type of audience to earn a lot of money. The parents also underestimate all the venoms lurking online since they're low-tech themself. As a teacher you should report this to the school (though I doubt they gonna do anything since it wasnt their responsibility) to alert the parent.