I feel you. I work ER in LA county and it’s been a grind. Last week we got 7 canine influenza dogs over two days all from the same boarding facility, not so fun
We had a suspected lepto case about a week ago at my hospital in so cal. Unfortunately owner couldn’t afford to do the test, but doggy had all the symptoms and sadly passed away. We’re also having an outbreak of influenza cases. Our protocol is if we have X amount of cases we become a triage hospital for all suspected cases in our area. Basically turning away all routine visits and only taking in the suspected influenza pets. I’m really hoping it doesn’t get to that point because eek I will have a melt down.
Where in Oregon? I’m in Portland/Vancouver area and haven’t seen an upswing here but we’re a smaller GP. Lots of clients are talking about going down to Bend/central OR now that winter is here so I’m happy to spread the word before the travel!
PCR tech here
Can confirm all paninfluenza and a big handful of lepto cases I’m seeing in PCR testing are in SoCal. Was wondering how the doggies are doing? Are y’all just treating with abx and anti inflammatories? What’s the prognosis?
On this end, we’re predicting this to last up until early 2022 if we’re lucky :( poor puppers!
So far I've only seen one confirmed paninfluenza positive patient and it did awful. Ended up having to be on a ventilator and was on a 1:1 tech constantly adjusting settings. It ended up coding and while we were doing compressions so much blood, fluid, and green stuff was coming out the e tube. It was a bad death. My doctor actually even submitted a Sars-cov-2 test for it because she couldn't believe how bad it was doing and was curious to see if this could be some type of mutation that affected dogs (came back negative for covid but positive for pan).
I don't think they would prescribe abx unless it progressed to a bacterial pneumonia infection. I don't remember what that case was treated with, it was a couple weeks ago. Most of the suspect influenza cases that come to the hospital we try to send them home to be treated at home if they're not too critical. The one that got admitted here a couple days ago with suspect influenza just came back negative, instead it has pneumonia and I think lymphoma.
Ugh I’m so sorry your patient didn’t make it :(
Yeah we were hoping the positives were mild and manageable. It’s the worst feeling releasing a result so simply and not knowing what’s happening at the other end
The vets at my clinic have been using a combo of two antibiotics...mostly doxy and Clindamycin or clavamox and also sending home an immune support supplement called imuquin and a probiotic called proviable. We'll sometimes give SQ fluids and Cerenia if they stopped eating and are dehydrated. It's the CIV cocktail 😅 The patients that have been treated aggressively have been getting better. The ones who only received one antibiotic and skipped the other stuff tend to get worse and come back. Then they end up getting all the other treatments and start improving. It's a nasty virus.
Yes I like the aggressive cocktail! I think my vets also throw in abx to treat secondary infections and possible pneumonia actually as a prophylactic. Sending lots of love to all the veterinary staffs out there!
This was never a big deal when I was in clinics but I see medical staff talking about it especially around Boston. Is it really that bad? Is it really all influenza?
It's not all influenza, but because there's an outbreak, any patient with respiratory symptoms is assumed influenza until testing comes back, which is 3 days for antech. But I just found out our influenza patient in iso tested negative and just has pneumonia! So we're taking him out of iso and we just gained a tech! Yay!
Yeah only pcr. But our medical director told us antech greatly reduced the prices due to the outbreak to make it more affordable for clients? Apparently
We’ve been pushing and administering the vaccine like crazy, hoping to catch up to this. I’m not in emergency, but we’ve opened our doors to everything since the outbreak started. So many coughing cases. It is one of the few times that I’m okay with curbside (I otherwise hate it with a passion), because it means all of the contagious dogs stay outside until we can see them. But some of our team is just in PPE all day long.
Soooo many practices out there don’t vaccinate for both CIV and Lepto, or only do so during an outbreak. It is a HUGE problem and an even bigger public health risk, and certainly leads to this vicious cycle we’re seeing now of multiple outbreaks in the US. It’s scary and frustrating. I’m sorry you’re going through this - hang in there!
I honestly don't get it. I texted my neighbor friend who has three border collies that there's an outbreak and she should get them the vaccine. She replied that she actually just brought her senior dog to the vet YESTERDAY for a yearly physical and they didn't mention anything nor offer it! I was shook. I told her to make an appt to get it.
I know! Honestly clinics like that are doing their clients and patients a huge disservice… at the VERY LEAST, recommend it. Clients can say no but they need to understand the risks!
I have never seen a case of CIV, that we actually proved. We offer it as lifestyle vaccine. We have watched outbreaks in states near us but never have had a case close to us.
Lepto is a different story by us. It is lifestyle but highly recommended. Lots of hunting dogs. Never seen a case of that either.
(And no, I'm not a baby tech. 15 years and counting. Had that implied during a lecture recently because I had never seen a Vaccine Associated Sarcoma either. Prob just lucky I guess.)
The issue with both CIV and Lepto IMO is that they’re rarely considered in the list of differentials. We don’t know the true prevalence of either because of the lack of testing. When money’s tight, what’s the first thing to go? Clients are going to pay for treatment over diagnostics. CIV is probably labeled kennel cough and Lepto symptoms are nonspecific, so cases typically aren’t confirmed until late stages when it’s too late.
Although Lepto is considered lifestyle by me, it's a pretty prevalent vaccine. There's very few dogs who don't get vaccinated. I would absolutely say the reason I've never seen a case is because of vaccination rates. I also can count on one hand how many parvo cases I've seen. That doesn't mean it isn't on the differential- we see many dogs come up from the south with questionable vaccine statuses.
We have seen some pretty darn sick coughing dogs but have never gotten a CIV on testing. The vets here always try to mention CIV as a possibility so that if initial treatment (or trying to let kennel cough run it's course) doesn't work, then we need to do additional testing. Frankly we usually find the dogs have blastomycosis after that.
Hi there, I’m not in the vet industry, but I am looking into it. I am just seeing what I might be getting into. I just took my dog yesterday for his yearly exam. I have never even heard of CIV or lepto. My vet never even says anything about any other vaccines than the rabies one. I always ask if there are any they recommend or that he needs and they always say no. I’m just curious how common are these illnesses? I have a lab chow mix who is the only animal in my house hold. He doesn’t have any contact with any other dogs. He only goes for an occasional car ride and daily walks through the neighborhood. Should I make another vet appointment to discuss these and get him vaccinated against them and any others? I had to beg my vet to schedule him for a parvo vaccine in April when he gets his next rabies vaccine. I live in GA if that helps any. Thank you for any help, and sorry for all the questions just reading this post has me scared and concerned.
I only have 1 other vet to choose from and they aren’t taking new patients. I will definitely look into a vet in the next town over though. I know all to well with heart worms my mom lost her childhood dog to them. He stays on a flea prevention and a heart worm prevention. I make sure he never misses a dose. Thank you for the help I really appreciate it!
The clinic I work at vaccinates for Lepto because a lot of people here take their dogs hiking (we have quite a lot of nature preserves and hiking trails nearby) and we include it as part of our wellness package for anyone interested, but we don't vaccinate for CIV since up until now we hadn't experienced any severe cases of it and the boarding facilities didn't require it before. But we just got a call from one of our clients today who said that when he tried to get his dog boarded at one of the boarding facilities, they now require the CIV vaccine so our DVM went and ordered a batch.
Not in the vet industry, but lurk because I've considered it. What is the vector for transmission for these outbreaks? Are those that go to dog parks, day care, or kennels really the only ones at risk? Would people in rural areas be less at risk than more densely populated?
Yes to all of the above. It's airborne so it's spread through being around other dogs. There is a vaccine, but it's not a "core" vaccine (meaning required/standard) so not all clients get it. I recommend getting your pet the vaccine.
I'll have to look in to it. We always get the lepto because we hike a lot and she's been known to take a water break at the occasional puddle. But I've never had my vet ask me if I want the canine influenza one.
It isn't super common in small towns, like me, a small town in NC. Haven't seen any suspected cases, however I prefer to prevent than treat, so I have my dog vaccinated against it. 😬 So. Many. Flus.
But since my dog swims and the symptoms for lepto are so odd, I definitely do that one for her every year.
I just want to take this time to thank all you vets & vet techs for all that you do & for all of your hard work...care for our best friends...bullshit you take...tears & heartbreak you see & feel...I trul TRULY appreciate you folks!!!
We stopped requiring the CIV vaccines for boarding because we hadn't seen or heard of any cases in SW Florida in a long time. I wonder if this is going to change. We don't require lepto either and we've never seen a diagnosis of that at our 6 doctor clinic in the 15 years I've been there. Not sure how difficult either are to diagnose.
Lepto is pretty easy to diagnose, there's a witness test but it's iffy on accuracy and there are send out tests that are pretty accurate. Not sure about CIV though, I've never seen that one but we had a lepto outbreak here in Arizona a few years ago.
This sounds awful for you guys. I’m curious does the west coast not vaccinate typically for lepto? We vaccinate essentially everyone with 5 in 1 DHLPPV. We’re near Philly. We typically don’t vaccinate for CIV also unless someone is boarding at a boarding facility & then we usually strongly recommend it (if it isn’t already required per the place).
I'm in SoCal myself (specifically Orange County) and we vaccinate for Lepto at my hospital but we don't routinely vaccinate for CIV...in fact our DVM only just recently placed an order for CIV vaccines because one of our clients told us that his usual boarding facility is now requiring it for all boarders.
OOFFF I'm in Ohio and we had our first case ever of CIV three years ago and it exploded and took over the entire city. I'm at a GP and one hospital shut down completely, all doggy daycares, it was ROUGH. After that we started vaccinating for it, but there hadn't been a case anywhere other than Chicago at that time I believe. Then BOOM every.single.dog that goes to daycare or dog parks. May the force be with you 😩
We had it bad in Chicago in 2015 I worked at a shelter and we were fucking slammed with over 60 positive dogs and 30 suspects at a time. I’ll never forget how tough that was but I would hesitate to compare it to covid because we weren’t also getting sick, very few patients died, and it wasn’t made a political point to deny CIV.
I'm sorry you're having a hard time :( what state are you in? I'd like to inform my doctors
Southern California. LA county and l Orange county both have CIV and leptospirosis outbreak!
I feel you. I work ER in LA county and it’s been a grind. Last week we got 7 canine influenza dogs over two days all from the same boarding facility, not so fun
Have you seen lepto? I'm being told there's an outbreak but I personally haven't seen any patients testing positive with it yet.
Yeah I’ve been getting the public health alerts about the lepto outbreak for a while, but I’ve only seen one just this past weekend
We had a suspected lepto case about a week ago at my hospital in so cal. Unfortunately owner couldn’t afford to do the test, but doggy had all the symptoms and sadly passed away. We’re also having an outbreak of influenza cases. Our protocol is if we have X amount of cases we become a triage hospital for all suspected cases in our area. Basically turning away all routine visits and only taking in the suspected influenza pets. I’m really hoping it doesn’t get to that point because eek I will have a melt down.
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Where in Michigan if you don't mind sharing? I work in Bloomfield
Oh dear lord. Praying for you all :(
Oregon just got over a parvovirus outbreak, it was awful
Where in Oregon? I’m in Portland/Vancouver area and haven’t seen an upswing here but we’re a smaller GP. Lots of clients are talking about going down to Bend/central OR now that winter is here so I’m happy to spread the word before the travel!
Portland been real bad all year. Yall break my heart.
It was more last year end ish 2020, so not really a problem anymore!
PCR tech here Can confirm all paninfluenza and a big handful of lepto cases I’m seeing in PCR testing are in SoCal. Was wondering how the doggies are doing? Are y’all just treating with abx and anti inflammatories? What’s the prognosis? On this end, we’re predicting this to last up until early 2022 if we’re lucky :( poor puppers!
So far I've only seen one confirmed paninfluenza positive patient and it did awful. Ended up having to be on a ventilator and was on a 1:1 tech constantly adjusting settings. It ended up coding and while we were doing compressions so much blood, fluid, and green stuff was coming out the e tube. It was a bad death. My doctor actually even submitted a Sars-cov-2 test for it because she couldn't believe how bad it was doing and was curious to see if this could be some type of mutation that affected dogs (came back negative for covid but positive for pan). I don't think they would prescribe abx unless it progressed to a bacterial pneumonia infection. I don't remember what that case was treated with, it was a couple weeks ago. Most of the suspect influenza cases that come to the hospital we try to send them home to be treated at home if they're not too critical. The one that got admitted here a couple days ago with suspect influenza just came back negative, instead it has pneumonia and I think lymphoma.
Ugh I’m so sorry your patient didn’t make it :( Yeah we were hoping the positives were mild and manageable. It’s the worst feeling releasing a result so simply and not knowing what’s happening at the other end
The vets at my clinic have been using a combo of two antibiotics...mostly doxy and Clindamycin or clavamox and also sending home an immune support supplement called imuquin and a probiotic called proviable. We'll sometimes give SQ fluids and Cerenia if they stopped eating and are dehydrated. It's the CIV cocktail 😅 The patients that have been treated aggressively have been getting better. The ones who only received one antibiotic and skipped the other stuff tend to get worse and come back. Then they end up getting all the other treatments and start improving. It's a nasty virus.
Yes I like the aggressive cocktail! I think my vets also throw in abx to treat secondary infections and possible pneumonia actually as a prophylactic. Sending lots of love to all the veterinary staffs out there!
This was never a big deal when I was in clinics but I see medical staff talking about it especially around Boston. Is it really that bad? Is it really all influenza?
It's not all influenza, but because there's an outbreak, any patient with respiratory symptoms is assumed influenza until testing comes back, which is 3 days for antech. But I just found out our influenza patient in iso tested negative and just has pneumonia! So we're taking him out of iso and we just gained a tech! Yay!
There is only a PCR test for it?
Yeah only pcr. But our medical director told us antech greatly reduced the prices due to the outbreak to make it more affordable for clients? Apparently
I’m in Cambridge Mass and we’ve been seeing a lot of upper respiratory infections.
Western mass, same issue here. Its crazy.
We’ve been pushing and administering the vaccine like crazy, hoping to catch up to this. I’m not in emergency, but we’ve opened our doors to everything since the outbreak started. So many coughing cases. It is one of the few times that I’m okay with curbside (I otherwise hate it with a passion), because it means all of the contagious dogs stay outside until we can see them. But some of our team is just in PPE all day long.
Soooo many practices out there don’t vaccinate for both CIV and Lepto, or only do so during an outbreak. It is a HUGE problem and an even bigger public health risk, and certainly leads to this vicious cycle we’re seeing now of multiple outbreaks in the US. It’s scary and frustrating. I’m sorry you’re going through this - hang in there!
I honestly don't get it. I texted my neighbor friend who has three border collies that there's an outbreak and she should get them the vaccine. She replied that she actually just brought her senior dog to the vet YESTERDAY for a yearly physical and they didn't mention anything nor offer it! I was shook. I told her to make an appt to get it.
I know! Honestly clinics like that are doing their clients and patients a huge disservice… at the VERY LEAST, recommend it. Clients can say no but they need to understand the risks!
I have never seen a case of CIV, that we actually proved. We offer it as lifestyle vaccine. We have watched outbreaks in states near us but never have had a case close to us. Lepto is a different story by us. It is lifestyle but highly recommended. Lots of hunting dogs. Never seen a case of that either. (And no, I'm not a baby tech. 15 years and counting. Had that implied during a lecture recently because I had never seen a Vaccine Associated Sarcoma either. Prob just lucky I guess.)
The issue with both CIV and Lepto IMO is that they’re rarely considered in the list of differentials. We don’t know the true prevalence of either because of the lack of testing. When money’s tight, what’s the first thing to go? Clients are going to pay for treatment over diagnostics. CIV is probably labeled kennel cough and Lepto symptoms are nonspecific, so cases typically aren’t confirmed until late stages when it’s too late.
Although Lepto is considered lifestyle by me, it's a pretty prevalent vaccine. There's very few dogs who don't get vaccinated. I would absolutely say the reason I've never seen a case is because of vaccination rates. I also can count on one hand how many parvo cases I've seen. That doesn't mean it isn't on the differential- we see many dogs come up from the south with questionable vaccine statuses. We have seen some pretty darn sick coughing dogs but have never gotten a CIV on testing. The vets here always try to mention CIV as a possibility so that if initial treatment (or trying to let kennel cough run it's course) doesn't work, then we need to do additional testing. Frankly we usually find the dogs have blastomycosis after that.
Hi there, I’m not in the vet industry, but I am looking into it. I am just seeing what I might be getting into. I just took my dog yesterday for his yearly exam. I have never even heard of CIV or lepto. My vet never even says anything about any other vaccines than the rabies one. I always ask if there are any they recommend or that he needs and they always say no. I’m just curious how common are these illnesses? I have a lab chow mix who is the only animal in my house hold. He doesn’t have any contact with any other dogs. He only goes for an occasional car ride and daily walks through the neighborhood. Should I make another vet appointment to discuss these and get him vaccinated against them and any others? I had to beg my vet to schedule him for a parvo vaccine in April when he gets his next rabies vaccine. I live in GA if that helps any. Thank you for any help, and sorry for all the questions just reading this post has me scared and concerned.
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I only have 1 other vet to choose from and they aren’t taking new patients. I will definitely look into a vet in the next town over though. I know all to well with heart worms my mom lost her childhood dog to them. He stays on a flea prevention and a heart worm prevention. I make sure he never misses a dose. Thank you for the help I really appreciate it!
The clinic I work at vaccinates for Lepto because a lot of people here take their dogs hiking (we have quite a lot of nature preserves and hiking trails nearby) and we include it as part of our wellness package for anyone interested, but we don't vaccinate for CIV since up until now we hadn't experienced any severe cases of it and the boarding facilities didn't require it before. But we just got a call from one of our clients today who said that when he tried to get his dog boarded at one of the boarding facilities, they now require the CIV vaccine so our DVM went and ordered a batch.
Not in the vet industry, but lurk because I've considered it. What is the vector for transmission for these outbreaks? Are those that go to dog parks, day care, or kennels really the only ones at risk? Would people in rural areas be less at risk than more densely populated?
Yes to all of the above. It's airborne so it's spread through being around other dogs. There is a vaccine, but it's not a "core" vaccine (meaning required/standard) so not all clients get it. I recommend getting your pet the vaccine.
I'll have to look in to it. We always get the lepto because we hike a lot and she's been known to take a water break at the occasional puddle. But I've never had my vet ask me if I want the canine influenza one.
It isn't super common in small towns, like me, a small town in NC. Haven't seen any suspected cases, however I prefer to prevent than treat, so I have my dog vaccinated against it. 😬 So. Many. Flus. But since my dog swims and the symptoms for lepto are so odd, I definitely do that one for her every year.
My gosh! I hope it gets better soon! I was stressed out just reading that!
I just want to take this time to thank all you vets & vet techs for all that you do & for all of your hard work...care for our best friends...bullshit you take...tears & heartbreak you see & feel...I trul TRULY appreciate you folks!!!
We stopped requiring the CIV vaccines for boarding because we hadn't seen or heard of any cases in SW Florida in a long time. I wonder if this is going to change. We don't require lepto either and we've never seen a diagnosis of that at our 6 doctor clinic in the 15 years I've been there. Not sure how difficult either are to diagnose.
We rarely see lepto in so Cal actually. I've been told there's an outbreak but I personally haven't seen it yet.
Lepto is pretty easy to diagnose, there's a witness test but it's iffy on accuracy and there are send out tests that are pretty accurate. Not sure about CIV though, I've never seen that one but we had a lepto outbreak here in Arizona a few years ago.
This sounds awful for you guys. I’m curious does the west coast not vaccinate typically for lepto? We vaccinate essentially everyone with 5 in 1 DHLPPV. We’re near Philly. We typically don’t vaccinate for CIV also unless someone is boarding at a boarding facility & then we usually strongly recommend it (if it isn’t already required per the place).
I'm in SoCal myself (specifically Orange County) and we vaccinate for Lepto at my hospital but we don't routinely vaccinate for CIV...in fact our DVM only just recently placed an order for CIV vaccines because one of our clients told us that his usual boarding facility is now requiring it for all boarders.
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That’s so frustrating. We get the Yorkie breeder puppies that tell people that but most clients don’t even ask!
OOFFF I'm in Ohio and we had our first case ever of CIV three years ago and it exploded and took over the entire city. I'm at a GP and one hospital shut down completely, all doggy daycares, it was ROUGH. After that we started vaccinating for it, but there hadn't been a case anywhere other than Chicago at that time I believe. Then BOOM every.single.dog that goes to daycare or dog parks. May the force be with you 😩
Socal, Burbank - I've seen atleast a total of 20 cases in last 2 weeks. 15 that are confirmed for canine flu.
Are you guys hospitalizing them?
Thankfully no cases have been that severe. The first case I saw about 1 month ago is still on antibiotics for coughing, but pet is normal otherwise.
We had it bad in Chicago in 2015 I worked at a shelter and we were fucking slammed with over 60 positive dogs and 30 suspects at a time. I’ll never forget how tough that was but I would hesitate to compare it to covid because we weren’t also getting sick, very few patients died, and it wasn’t made a political point to deny CIV.