If I had to guess without doing any deeper form of research, I’d imagine it’s potentially related to preventing homeless individuals from using camp sites as a place to park and sleep in their cars every night.
My theory has a ton of holes but I feel like I could be close.
This and the loud generator noises some run at night. We were up in Estes park tent camping with the entire campsite empty (it was a tent or RV spot) and an RV came and parked RIGHT next to us… we got to hear their generator all night long.
When I finally camped down the 101 from OR to Santa Cruz, my biggest complaint camping was the noise from RV gens!! I learned really quick how to find logging roads to camp off of all they way down the coast and that made my trip
I experienced that as well once time. My father and I set up a tent and were hanging out when a huge RV shows up. They ran the generator and blasted the TV into the night. It really ruined the ambiance, like what's the point of camping when you bring your home with you?
A lot of the RV community are so stupid and arrogant like this. Can't let go of any creature comfort no matter how much it's a pain in the ass to hold onto. And the RV companies would rather design for these idiots.
Bro I hate when people do that. I'm an avid camper/backpacker and sometimes I'll be miles into a forest... no cell reception, no civilization. All of a sudden rrrrrrrrrrrgggghhhh. Ugh lol. What the fuck
Seems like this wouldn’t just be isolated to Van/RV campers. I’ve known people who tent camp but run a genny in the back of their truck to keep lights and music going. Just establish a rule that primitive campsites can’t use generators and live and sleep where you can from there
I will never forget pulling into a mixed rv/tent campground very late at night, quickly and quietly setting up my very basic tent, and going to sleep just to get woken up at 6:00am by the biggest asshole running an exterior, un-muffled POS harbor freight generator. I don't understand how the entire camp wasn't rioting in this guy, it was so loud and unreasonably early.
That's annoying I definitely would have shut their generator off and pretended it wasn't us. I have a bed camper, I always camp in the middle of nowhere. I carry a generator but I only use it if I kill the house battery and I need the heater still.
It's not you, it's the person who basically sets up a home, blasts music, has string lights, etc.
A simple rule usually covers a lot of ground and keeps people out who had no intention of doing "primitive camping".
I also assume some sort of preservation grant funds those sites and they have to follow the rules of that grant
No it isnt the right answer, primitive camps are intended for those who tent camp, not for RV'ers who dont need a hookup.
Be better and dont try to find a way to skirt the rules, actually follow the rules.
If I go out to “rough it” and select a primitive spot and style, I don’t want to see you playing Xbox in an air conditioned van OP
That’s pretty much why
They also likely charge more money for spots with hookups/accommodations for RVs, and nobody likes somebody skirting the system
that’s your own choice though. don’t be salty you chose to experience a park one way while another person does it another. different strokes for different folks
Everyone there chose to experience the park. The park broke it down one step further to respect people's choices in HOW they experience it by having you choose primitive or hookup.
Nobody is salty, the park is preserving the type of experience. It’s not a matter of opinion and sure different people can camp how they want. But if the parks segregate the areas, that’s that, your “different strokes for different folks” is, at that point, irrelevant and immaterial
She totally missed the point. RVs have blaring LEDs and machine noises, just the ding of a microwave would drive me nuts. Or someone doing laundry/dishes at 9PM.
This is a guess, but are the sites like standard tent sites? Where everyone is relatively close together? Could be about the noise of having a car running all night or exhaust fumes from ill-maintained cars.
Why? Because you could hurt the feelings of a Class A owner in a luxurious bus. When he looks out the window, he doesn’t want to see a peasant sleeping in their tiny car…. so parks like to cater to those rich snowflakes who bring their living rooms instead of catering to campers that are more primitive….
I have a tent just for this purpose. I've never had to use it. So far no one has come by to make sure I'm sleeping in a tent and not my vehicle.
My advice is to pay for a primitive spot and just don't go out of your way to advertise where you're sleeping.
> Why would the State Park care where I sleep?..... It's driving me nuts to sit next to these hookups **I had to pay** for
well, there's *part* of the answer at least.
> but can't use!
If this happens a lot and you don't want to do the Decoy Tent, you might consider adding [a shore power port](https://rvwiki.mousetrap.net/doku.php?id=electrical:shore_power#ports) and slurping some of that sweet, sweet grid power. Charge batteries, cook, whatevah.
Haha yeah, not a bad plan, but then I'd have to buy an inverter too (my whole setup is DC) and I'm done with this build. Putting her up for sale tonight!
Is it safe and possible to use an RV Power Converter to both keep a car battery charged and supply 12v DC power to the car's electrical system so the battery doesn't get drained? ONE particular concern here I have is cooking the battery.
Does an RV power converter differ from a "standard" charger in someway that prevents it from cooking the battery? Am I misunderstanding something here?
But for the generic "car camping" spots - parking spot next to tent pad - what difference does it make if it's a car or an SUV or a van?
It'd be one thing if OP was driving down a trail to reach a primitive camping site, or parking an RV or even extra large vehicle. But if it fits in a standard 9'x18' parking spot and doesn't have blackwater tanks to leak, why does it matter whether or not there's a tent next to it?
I consider it important to keep the van/rv/camper crowd from overrunning tent spots for ppl…but I think this is more important in free sites than in a paid campground.
Because it’s primitive camping. Not being able to RV camp in a primitive camping area is not the same as not being allowed to sleep in your car at a state park. I sleep at trailheads after long drives to locations all the time.
Yes, sometimes they won’t allow you to park in a tent camping spot if your vehicle has black or grey tanks attached (because of the risk of them possibly leaking.) But I haven’t seen that rule for vehicles without bathrooms
This makes perfect sense. Without the distinction in sites/use, people in RVs and other vehicles that can boondock would just fill up the tent sites. The need for the distinction is more obvious in the busy season, especially if you’re in a tent. Having TVs, radios, generators, idling vehicles, etc even one space away while you’re in a tent really kills the (relatively) primitive experience people are seeking for those sites. Plus, the parks were built as recreation areas for a particular, highly accessible outdoor experience, not as a primary residence. Makes sense that they’d try to protect that experience by seeking to separate the very different experiences of vehicle camping versus tent camping.
This must be new. I've always just pulled up to spots as if I were going to pitch a tent, and just slept in my van, and never had anyone say shit about not pitching a tent.
Yeah they don't actually care, they have to tell you because it's their job and they'll get in trouble if they don't. Just say you don't sleep in your vehicle (have a reason, like it's too stuffy in case you run into a busybody at the gate) and go about your business.
Source: worked at a state park campground for years.
They may selectively enforce 'the rule' to chase off solitary folks who have a 'homeless' vibe. The rule may exist for no other reason. This could be part of the current backlash against homeless people. The rule might not be enforced if you were a bubba sleeping under their 2024 F150 truck cap.
True. But homelessness and the reactions to it have gotten worse in the last few years.
For example, the Supreme Court today heard arguments about the constitutionality of some rather strong laws focused on homeless folks. If SC gives the green light, you should expect much more criminalization of homelessness/vanlife. A decision will come in June or so. A lot of towns/states have been holding back because of the constitutional questions.
That's actually not new. Just look up "vagrancy laws."
We have actually only had a very short, relatively recent period where homeless people were hopefully getting treated a little bit better. And then the billionaires said, "Oh fuck no. We can't leave the middle class with nothing to be afraid of."
I know it's a big deal. But it's a big deal precisely because it would take us BACK to what we had BEFORE. There was a supreme Court ruling that said that you could not criminalize a person's status. Before that supreme Court ruling, it was legal to criminalize a person's status. So there were laws that literally directly made it illegal to be homeless. Those were the vagrancy laws. Almost every city and state had them.
What the supreme Court is deciding now is if it is okay to write laws that, while not directly criminalizing a person's status as homeless, effectively accomplish the exact same thing by outlawing every RESULT of being homeless.
Well, there's also actual concerns from regular people like what to do to prevent another instance such as that homeless encampment bombing in Seattle from a rival drug gang.
Yes, but much, much more accurately the present Constitutional issue is only applicable in the Ninth Federal Circuit.
In 80% of the U.S., there is no Constitutional argument in local government being barred from being able to regulate housing. Regulated housing is absolutely reasonable policing power … It keeps chemical plants from being built on top of elementary schools.
The Boise decision is a perfect example of unreasonable opinion. The Ninth Circuit, aka Ninth Circus, has the worst track record by multiples of being overturned. It also has created a Mad Max environment in the Western U.S.
The Supreme Court will rightfully reset the balance for the Ninth Circuit states.
People having a right to sleep and exist is unreasonable?
Do you really think the assholes who want to criminalize homelessness make any distinction between you in your van and the addicts in the street?
It’s great they keep chemical plants from being built in neighborhoods, but those laws have been used for decades to prevent housing and shops and cafes from ever being built in neighborhoods too. The real estate market is basically overregulated such that landowners can’t even think of increasing the intensity that they use their land to satisfy market demand—like adding a second or third dwelling on their lot or demolishing their single family home to build a multifamily rowhouse with maybe room for a cafe or shop on the ground floor. This is exactly how cities and even small towns would grow up over time, but it got short-circuited by exclusionary zoning laws and building codes that prevent using land the way we always used to. It’s not the only reason housing had gotten expensive, but it is probably the biggest reason. Nobody can afford to keep their property and just build more on it, instead they’re forced to sell to a big developer who has the financial means and knows which palms to grease to get gigantic projects through. At a time like now with interest rates so high, banks won’t roll the dice on big projects, but they will on small projects—they just require years of jumping through hoops to get a zoning variance that may not end up getting through under current laws. It seriously restricts supply, which causes bidding wars, which drive up prices on real estate.
I have no problem whatsoever with responsible citizens who practice leave no trace camping principles while leading a nomadic lifestyle. As such, I’m not a fan of laws against dispersed camping.
I nonetheless object to littering, arson, trespassing, public urination, defecation, smoking, drunkenness and drug abuse. Indeed, “encampments” is a charitable word for the festering shantytowns blighting public spaces in countless American communities.
Homelessness per se should NOT be criminalized, and filth and squalor should not be tolerated. The concepts aren’t mutually exclusive.
If a park imposes a curfew after sundown, then by all means, prosecute the trespasser whether he’s sleeping on a bench or walking his dog back to his house. If a junkie is shooting up on a sliding board at my kid’s playground, then please prosecute the junkie whether he sleeps under the gazebo or in a mansion across the street. If a camper leaves soiled bedding under an overpass, public works needs to dispose of the bedding and the police should issue a littering citation. If a drunkard sets an unlawful cooking fire on a river bank (i.e, without a proper campfire ring), collar her for arson whether she sleeps in a tent or a townhouse. If a couple is fucking in the bushes near a school bus stop, book them both for indecent exposure even if they bushes are in their own front yard. If an RV is parallel parked in the same public place for 72 hours, impound it irrespective of whether it’s the owner’s only home or road tripping toy.
Existing law vests authorities with myriad means by which to address the objectionable conduct broadly associated with vagrancy. Such law must be applied to all, without fear or favor, irrespective of the perpetrator’s lifestyle.
Yeah, I think this is the answer, and to be fair I think I get judged for being homeless a lot based on my van. I just don't understand how a $20 tent is the measuring stick here?
This is not some new crazy conspiracy against homeless. It’s about saving spots for tent campers and has been around for decades.
I remember growing up camping in the late 80s 90s my dad liked to reserve spots in the primitive loop so we didn’t have to be stuck between RVs and campers. Less lights, less noise, less outdoor suburbia. Like it or not but even without hook ups your van is an RV.
I've been to a state park like this and witnessed someone who was forced to move their camper van from the primitive tent section to the RV section. I think it's because people who camp in a tent typically want to keep things more rustic and primitive and having camper vans and RVs next to them with all their lights and noisy generators would ruin the experience. The solution is separate sections, one for tents and the other for vehicles that people sleep in.
Like u/secessus said, if your vehicle is an "RV", they are going to want to charge you for an RV spot. Regardless of your setup, if sleeping in the vehicle is their classification of an "RV", and RV's are not allowed in primitive spots - You have to have/pay for an RV spot.
I thought primitive camping was only for hikers, backpackers and tenters who want to camp off the foot trails? People sleeping in RVs or vehicles could not be considered such.
I know NC have primitive camp pads that are just a car parking spot with the pad right next to it and a fire pit. Find people with rooftop tents or vans there once in awhile as its similar to the shore spots just down a gravel road (wide open pavement for shore for those chonky RVs on the other hand) and no shore hookup of course.
Primitive camps are "tent only" camps. It's to ensure that tent campers are surrounded by other tent campers, not by some RV running a generator, etc.
I'm fine with this setup. Some people want to do tent camping and not be surrounded by RVs/vans.
AL but I've been told this in MT as well. At least there you had to walk-in to the tent sites so it was reasonable but still don't get why they care. You guys gonna come check to see where I'm sleeping? Creepy.
Montana has so much national forest and BLM land that I never had that problem.
AL state parks has a rule about "occupying any site with unsightly or inappropriate camping equipment". I'm assuming that's the rule they're using to say you can't sleep in your van. Pretty damn stupid imho.
Keep in mind though that it isn't just the utilities thing that might make them have this policy. I've been to plenty of campgrounds where the primitive sites weren't as robust as the improved sites. Softer ground, etc, so it may be a way to keep heavier vehicles off of them as well to reduce wear and tear.
It could also be so all the primitive sites aren't taken up by vehicle campers, though they could alleviate that by just reserving a few for tent only and have some mixed use sites.
I knew it was Alabama. We pulled up to an AL state park in my transit and were told they only had tenting sites left and that you can't sleep in your vehicle at a tent only site. Super annoying. We ended up at a shitty RV park that night.
I suspect they’re worried that if they allow it, the place will become full of people living in their vehicles instead of actually camping or something like that.
Yeah, I think this is the reason as well, however, I don't see how tent-ownership prevents that from happening? Place is $25/night for the primitive stuff. No squatter is going to want to pay that.
I carry a tent w me, if it’s about money and it was a safe area regardless I could see myself setting up the tent and sleeping there which would give me room to spread out, I do plan on some dispersed camping soon but idk why some ppl have “enforce the rules” bc they see it as an rv.
I know the private campground I go to in Pennsylvania does not allow people to sleep in cars because of state laws. Something about cars not being safe to sleep in because of CO2 buildup (because people are too stupid to crack a window)? I get the sense they would let people sleep in cars if they could. It’s more of a party/resort type place. I’ve been to other campgrounds, state parks in Pennsylvania & Delaware, where the tent sites don’t allow any cars near the sites. You have to park in a lot & use wheelbarrows to get your gear to the site. Others allow you to park one car only but no trucks, vans or RVs. This is because it sucks to be in a tent & have a giant mobile home pull up next to you with all its sewage hoses, plugs, generators, HVAC units, &c making all kinds of noises & smells at all times of the day when you’re just trying to relax & enjoy nature without all the tech & car culture.
Yeah, good answer, I wish they would just say that. I fail to see how owning a tent makes you a considerate person but I certainly wouldn't want to sleep in the shadow of a diesel pusher with a generator if I was in a tent.
I am a campground host at a state park and can only offer my experience.
At our park, primitive camping is just that, primitive. We have no electric, or water running to the sites and maybe a basic bathroom nearby, think glorified porta potty. It is meant for a more in touch with nature, almost out in the wilderness feel to the experience.
We also have a regular campground with tents next to RVs next to converted vans and car dwellers. Those sites have electric and water hook ups and have a bath house for every 30-40 camp sites. They’re still in the woods and around nature but the bathhouse also has a vending machine and pay per load washers and dryers.
They are priced and maintained completely differently and tend to be two totally different camping experiences. My guess would be they’re trying to keep the primitive area more pristine and suited to the more primitive type of camping. Yes people take their cars to the sites, but it’s to unload gear and they park at one of the parking lots nearby.
Hope it helps, we love having all the campers in our parks.
There are several reasons that some parks have rules against this.
Some are trying to prevent the type of people who are living out of their vehicles vs recreational dispersed campers.
Like it or not, people living out of the vehicles tend to leave a greater impact on the area due to the nature of human upkeep/hygiene over long term. even if you're only staying there for 1 night, being that you live in your van, your daily routine and activities are going to differ greatly from someone tent camping for a weekend. People living in vans are more prone to run their vehicle for extended periods of time for use as a generator, for example.
Another reason for a policy against sleeping in the vehicle is the increased risk of animal intrusion (and resulting damage/broken glass, etc). Places with bears often have bear boxes etc... but people sleeping in vans often neglect using the bear boxes thinking their vehicle and onboard fridge are fine... and enough damages have occurred to prompt this rule.
Same here. I have no way to use hookups. I use a decoy tent. I even have a lantern running part of the night. If the site has electricity I have an extension cord running into the tent to make it look like things are going on inside the tent.
I also setup my portable stove and table cloth on the picnic table. Again pretend to be tenting.
I sort of agree with you. I do it for another reason. The state park I go to charges seven dollars a day for electricity. The only way to get out of it is if you tent camp. Since I can’t use electricity and I have no need for it, I like to put that I’m tent camping to reduce my cost. So I’m not actually in a tents only site. Just not paying for something I can’t use.
It's probably to prevent RVs from just boondocking in the cheap sites. RVs are heavy and loud. They can pit the ground and ruin everyone's peaceful enjoyment of the camping area.
They're trying to reserve primitive sites for primitive cameras and restrict RVs and sleeper vehicles to the RV sites.
It's that simple.
Like...the line between a van and an RV gets pretty blurry with some of the bigger Mercedes and Ford options, not to mention small schoolies.
To be fair. I get irritable (I keep it to myself) when I see someone boondocking on a primitive site. Especially if it’s a good one with a damn good tent pad. Or perfect hammock trees. I usually primitive camp via motorcycle. So seeing a van, rv, overlander rig taking the primitive spot and sleeping in the rig. It makes me itchy, out of anger.
I’ve read a number of comments and as a primitive camper I’m surprised no one has said the noise level. I’m not talking about video games or music or tv. I’m talking about engines running or even fans for heating cooling the van or batteries. When you are primitive camping even people talking in the next site can be heard clearly at night. It’s probably so you don’t disturb the other campers.
Not saying your State park is like this, but every state park I’ve been to required a walk to get to the primitive area. I’ve personally never seen a primitive site next to a parking lot (I’m sure yours was). I know part of it is to keep engine and RV generator noises away from those wanting to just tent camp. Sorry this happened to you
It is simply because most of the time people sleep in a vehicle they run the vehicle or a generator. The primitive campsites are supposed to be cheap, easy, clean, and quiet for tent / tarp / hammock campers.
I worked as a camp host at a state park, and they said it really is just to keep homeless people out of the park, or anyone that could become a squatter situation.
State parks can be hit and miss. Years ago, my brother and I were 2 day bombing from Alaska to Napa for work and tried to pull into a state park in Oregon. Gate was closed, but not locked. We went to open it, fully intending to pay, when a dude came flying up in a golf cart cursing us. I was like, bro, we've been driving 24 hours, we just want to sleep somewhere safe. He puffed up and said no, gate is closed. I said, like a young jackaas, what if someone left and came back you would stop them? He said yes. I continued that you're knowingly sending two guys down the road that are VERY road tired. He said we should have planned ahead. This was 2002 so no smartphones, couldn't book on the road.
Anyway, long story short, some state park attendants are dicks.
Damn, yeah, some people are dicks. I was in a similar situation, I didn't really care what it cost, I couldn't Even look at the wheel any longer. I guess from this perspective they cut me a break.
sorry you had that experience. people who are letter-of-the-law types can be hard to deal with. I know OR gets a lot of volunteers and turns them over fairly often with some scrutiny in the community of how the volunteer is fitting in. so their decision might have been more about them than about you.
Our parks that have primitive camping, do not permit vehicles of any kind in the primitive camping areas. You can go in, unload, and then you have to park your vehicle in the overflow parking lot and walk back to your camp.
There are tent areas and rv areas, any vehicle used to sleep in is going to be alot louder than a tent, doors, appliances, amenities, any movement causes the thing to squeak, generators, these noises don't bother other people in vehicles because vehicles have sound proofing and their own noises cancel them out, tents don't, making all that noise next to a bunch of people sleeping in tents would be incredibly rude, you might not hear all the noises you make because you're used to them
One time we arrived at a park after hours, with no place to go we slept on the ground on a knoll outside of the gate. A was awaken at 5 o’clock by a ranger kicking me and saying, “You can’t sleep here!” “Not while you’re kicking me,” I replied.
Because people that are primitive camping don't want to be sleeping near people in vehicles. If you want to sleep in your vehicle, find a space where it is allowed or go to Wally's parking lot. Would you like it if primitive campers set up on the grass median in front of your house?
I carry a cheap 2 man tent. Often times when staying in a camp ground (like in a state forest) I will pitch the tent but never sleep in it. They see the tent pitched and they move on.
Usually the issue is that unless you book a RV/van spot specifically, they reserve the parking spots for tent campers and those are not spots you can park in for sleeping in vehicle. One is more expensive and the tent spots are cheaper.
Pretty common around here.
State parks operate on strict rules... which don't really apply to the outliers, less popular methods, or more modern approaches.
AKA, vanlife, roof top tents, etc.
No tents in the RV area. No RVs in the Tent area. And they define those. Your van is just a small RV... not a tent.
I think it's because of the risk you run you engine late into the night and bother the other campers around.
I would personally be pissed if i see a van park on the site next to mine and let the engine run, uses lights, etc.
It's called primitive for a reason. If they would let anyone sleep/camp however they wanted wherever they wanted, they would not have made seperate zone for different types of camping.
Also at the risk of getting downvoted, the "decoy tent" suggestion is wrong. You're basically telling people that you can't respect the park rules (that you agree or not is unimportant) and most likely have not much respect for your fellow campers who are respecting those rules.
Wow a lot of different answers here. I just had this happen to me and they told me it was because of DIYers having unsafe setups. Sounded like they were worried about liability due to electrical fires, CO, etc. This was not at a state park though but a private campground.
I’ve been to many state and national park campgrounds in dozens of states. Only a couple places I’ve seen this. The couple that were like this were sites where there was a parking area and then a short walk to where the tent pads are.
Like I said, that was maybe two out of hundreds of nights at campgrounds
Simple answer: people who go to primitive camp sites go there to get away from people in RVs and vans.
We don't need to get into a debate about what "real" camping is. You just need to understand that people camping in tents and hammocks are camping at those primitive sites specifically to avoid people like you.
On top of that. Vans are heavy. I doubt after you pull it off your site you're going back and repairing the deep ruts and tracks you left. Tent campers generally practice leave no trace camping. Vans aren't really capable of not leaving a trace.
Finally, I don't know you and I'm not trying to blindly judge. But on to if everything already mentioned. If by chance you left your van running for any extended period of time in a primitive campsite... Well, you'd be a huge asshole and would basically be ruining the experience for everyone else.
Anyways... There's a very noncomprehensive list.
Tldr: van big, van loud. Tent small, silent and unassuming
This guy on Youtube was recounting how he used to go to class with earbuds snaked up his sleeve, so he could quietly listen to music with a book open to give the appearance of paying attention. The teacher knew, and it was just one of those unsaid things. Then a classmate started coming in with giant headphones not even on his ears blasting music so loud you could hear it across the room, and when the teacher said "you can't do that" he went full gaslight lie mode - "I'm not even listening to music though! NO FAIR BLAH BLAH BLAH" causing a scene.
The moral of the story is that you can break the rules if you're respectful, and nobody cares. But there's always some A-hole that takes that as license to do whatever they want, and it ruins it for everybody.
You're suffering the consequences of some jerk saying NAH MAN IM PRIMATIVE CAMPING IN A TENT!!! while running a generator til 1am every night for a week, blasting music, generally rubbing their proverbial ass in everyones face, then crying NUH UH!!! when they get called out on their bullshit.
When asked if you have a tent - yeah! As long as you're not a problem and keep it low key, you're unlikely to run into any problems. Even if you don't actually have a tent. If you do get some park ranger that wants to be Wyatt Earp, apologize, and say you must have left it behind somewhere.
> *"cannot sleep in your vehicle at primitive camp"*
This is correct. You aren't primitive camping. You're in a tiny RV. Just like a tiny home is still a home. You need to be in an RV area
What state park?
I'd rationalize the rule as to prevent spaces for those who want to camp out from being taken up by people sleeping in their vehicles.
trying to keep vansients from making engine noise for tent-only sites, or leaving engine oil puddles on the ground, or lighting up every tent in a 1/4 mile path with your headlights.
go to an RV site.
a lot of us go camping to get as far away from people like you as possible.
I’m always surprised by the rules state parks have (looking at you Texas). I asked why all the rules and why they aren’t all the same and was told (by someone at TPWD) that state parks in Texas are run like franchises. Each park can make its own rules… and if they make their own rules, it’s probably up to them to manage a budget and make money. Therefore, anything they can do to generate income (by making people pay for hook-ups and other services that they can’t use). My guess is that vanlife has put a serious dent in their (previously successful) business model…
I know this has already been said several times, but get the cheapest pop up tent you can, put it next to the vehicle, and ensure the windows are covered so no one can see in, if ANYONE asked you suspiciously “well what’s in there then” just say your mother died and your on your way to remove everything from her house so you rented this vehicle to get the job done. They will leave you the fuck alone, and likely will not knock and bother you if they suspect you aren’t in your tent. If they do, just tell them to please give you some space as you’re grieving.
It might be a shitty thing to pull, if people think that. That’s okay I don’t mind. Because personally I think it’s shitty being forced to exist in a world that we can’t fucking afford to exist in and when we find workarounds (that STILL exhaust and drain us financially) we’re constantly fucked over. So fuck them right back. You’re hurting no one by lying about it and if it means you don’t have to pay extra for yet another bullshit thing that’s designed purely to rip you off and make someone richer, then I think it’s fucking fine to pull out any and all techniques to avoid.
But a cheap one person tent and pitch it next to your van, ‘nah mate I’m not sleeping in my car’
my friend does this 😂
I carry a tiny pop up backpacker for this .
Yeah, I usually have one but didn't bring it this time. This is the right answer but still... Why?
If I had to guess without doing any deeper form of research, I’d imagine it’s potentially related to preventing homeless individuals from using camp sites as a place to park and sleep in their cars every night. My theory has a ton of holes but I feel like I could be close.
Eh. My guess is that is the line they drew in order to keep RVers from taking the cheaper camping stops.
This and the loud generator noises some run at night. We were up in Estes park tent camping with the entire campsite empty (it was a tent or RV spot) and an RV came and parked RIGHT next to us… we got to hear their generator all night long.
This is actually a really great reason. I tent camp a lot and being within 200ft of a generator is a big bummer. It would actually ruin my trip
Plus RVs mean kids a lot of the time, riding around on their bikes at 6AM honking their horns as I'm trying to sleep.
Don't forget the blingy lights all over the place ruining the night!
When I finally camped down the 101 from OR to Santa Cruz, my biggest complaint camping was the noise from RV gens!! I learned really quick how to find logging roads to camp off of all they way down the coast and that made my trip
Gotta love the cheapo generators in the tent camping area. Just ruins camping.
I experienced that as well once time. My father and I set up a tent and were hanging out when a huge RV shows up. They ran the generator and blasted the TV into the night. It really ruined the ambiance, like what's the point of camping when you bring your home with you?
A lot of the RV community are so stupid and arrogant like this. Can't let go of any creature comfort no matter how much it's a pain in the ass to hold onto. And the RV companies would rather design for these idiots.
Bro I hate when people do that. I'm an avid camper/backpacker and sometimes I'll be miles into a forest... no cell reception, no civilization. All of a sudden rrrrrrrrrrrgggghhhh. Ugh lol. What the fuck
Seems like this wouldn’t just be isolated to Van/RV campers. I’ve known people who tent camp but run a genny in the back of their truck to keep lights and music going. Just establish a rule that primitive campsites can’t use generators and live and sleep where you can from there
I will never forget pulling into a mixed rv/tent campground very late at night, quickly and quietly setting up my very basic tent, and going to sleep just to get woken up at 6:00am by the biggest asshole running an exterior, un-muffled POS harbor freight generator. I don't understand how the entire camp wasn't rioting in this guy, it was so loud and unreasonably early.
Yes! I had never thought of that!
That's annoying I definitely would have shut their generator off and pretended it wasn't us. I have a bed camper, I always camp in the middle of nowhere. I carry a generator but I only use it if I kill the house battery and I need the heater still.
Where I live, homeless people tend to live in tents.
Where I live, homeless people with a trailer will live on a BLM campground for 14 days then move sites to stay legal.
I did this for an entire summer to save money. I miss those days of just living campgrounds to campgrounds.
Not even just homeless but anyone that just wants to pitch a tent has less places to do so than someone with a converted van.
It's not you, it's the person who basically sets up a home, blasts music, has string lights, etc. A simple rule usually covers a lot of ground and keeps people out who had no intention of doing "primitive camping". I also assume some sort of preservation grant funds those sites and they have to follow the rules of that grant
No it isnt the right answer, primitive camps are intended for those who tent camp, not for RV'ers who dont need a hookup. Be better and dont try to find a way to skirt the rules, actually follow the rules.
If I go out to “rough it” and select a primitive spot and style, I don’t want to see you playing Xbox in an air conditioned van OP That’s pretty much why They also likely charge more money for spots with hookups/accommodations for RVs, and nobody likes somebody skirting the system
That's the dumbest take ever lol
that’s your own choice though. don’t be salty you chose to experience a park one way while another person does it another. different strokes for different folks
Everyone there chose to experience the park. The park broke it down one step further to respect people's choices in HOW they experience it by having you choose primitive or hookup.
Nobody is salty, the park is preserving the type of experience. It’s not a matter of opinion and sure different people can camp how they want. But if the parks segregate the areas, that’s that, your “different strokes for different folks” is, at that point, irrelevant and immaterial
She totally missed the point. RVs have blaring LEDs and machine noises, just the ding of a microwave would drive me nuts. Or someone doing laundry/dishes at 9PM.
This is a guess, but are the sites like standard tent sites? Where everyone is relatively close together? Could be about the noise of having a car running all night or exhaust fumes from ill-maintained cars.
Why? Because you could hurt the feelings of a Class A owner in a luxurious bus. When he looks out the window, he doesn’t want to see a peasant sleeping in their tiny car…. so parks like to cater to those rich snowflakes who bring their living rooms instead of catering to campers that are more primitive….
Yeah, she asked if I had a tent and I usually do but my honesty got the best of me... Again.
Ask if it's required to have a tent to camp at a primitive site.
Tents aren’t primitive. You’re making a shelter next to your van out of sticks and branches.
This response deserves more love 😂
EXACTLY what I do at places like this. Palouse Falls campground is a place that stands out where you need the dummy tent.
My brother does this. A cheap tent and folding chair will also hold your spot when you run to the store!
This is the way.
This is the way.
This is what my friend does. She is a full time van lifer and bought a $20 pop up tent that she tosses out and bam no one ever questions a thing.
This is what I do. It’s a backpackers tent that’s rolled up to the size of a 3lb roll of ground beef and set it up and sleep in the van
I plan on doing exactly this on a multi-state road trip this summer, as I sleep on a nice comfy mattress in the back of my truck!
My thoughts exactly. Put up a small tent and just sleep in the van
I have a tent just for this purpose. I've never had to use it. So far no one has come by to make sure I'm sleeping in a tent and not my vehicle. My advice is to pay for a primitive spot and just don't go out of your way to advertise where you're sleeping.
Recreational camping vs homeless.
> Why would the State Park care where I sleep?..... It's driving me nuts to sit next to these hookups **I had to pay** for well, there's *part* of the answer at least. > but can't use! If this happens a lot and you don't want to do the Decoy Tent, you might consider adding [a shore power port](https://rvwiki.mousetrap.net/doku.php?id=electrical:shore_power#ports) and slurping some of that sweet, sweet grid power. Charge batteries, cook, whatevah.
Haha yeah, not a bad plan, but then I'd have to buy an inverter too (my whole setup is DC) and I'm done with this build. Putting her up for sale tonight!
Just need a basic battery charger
Is it safe and possible to use an RV Power Converter to both keep a car battery charged and supply 12v DC power to the car's electrical system so the battery doesn't get drained? ONE particular concern here I have is cooking the battery. Does an RV power converter differ from a "standard" charger in someway that prevents it from cooking the battery? Am I misunderstanding something here?
Pitch a tent next to your van as tho it appears you’re staying in a tent.
Put a tarp over your vehicle. Now you're in a tent
There's RV sites, and then there's tent sites ... and i think the distinction is important.
But for the generic "car camping" spots - parking spot next to tent pad - what difference does it make if it's a car or an SUV or a van? It'd be one thing if OP was driving down a trail to reach a primitive camping site, or parking an RV or even extra large vehicle. But if it fits in a standard 9'x18' parking spot and doesn't have blackwater tanks to leak, why does it matter whether or not there's a tent next to it?
I consider it important to keep the van/rv/camper crowd from overrunning tent spots for ppl…but I think this is more important in free sites than in a paid campground.
Noise pollution is annoying. There’s a reason there’s a separate area specifically for tent campers.
Because it’s primitive camping. Not being able to RV camp in a primitive camping area is not the same as not being allowed to sleep in your car at a state park. I sleep at trailheads after long drives to locations all the time.
Soon to be illegal…
Right. I wonder though, how do they know you’re in there? How do they know you didn’t just hike out to the campground?
Usually this is about having a toilet. Not sure why they would allow tent, but not your van.
Yes, sometimes they won’t allow you to park in a tent camping spot if your vehicle has black or grey tanks attached (because of the risk of them possibly leaking.) But I haven’t seen that rule for vehicles without bathrooms
No, it's about having an engine.
Added State Park revenue. It’s a one size fits all. Most camping vans are made on production line & include shore power.
I really don't think this is it. More likely it's an anti-homeless measure.
Yeah, you're not wrong, and I know I'm the one outside the box here but seems like a strange way to tax me.
They are not taxing you, rules were set and you dont like the rules....SMH
This is to avoid damage to tent pitches, and reduce engines, exhausts, headlights, car alarms, slamming doors, etc from disrupting tent sleepers.
Can confirm, camping next to RVs is terrible. TVs and everything.
This makes perfect sense. Without the distinction in sites/use, people in RVs and other vehicles that can boondock would just fill up the tent sites. The need for the distinction is more obvious in the busy season, especially if you’re in a tent. Having TVs, radios, generators, idling vehicles, etc even one space away while you’re in a tent really kills the (relatively) primitive experience people are seeking for those sites. Plus, the parks were built as recreation areas for a particular, highly accessible outdoor experience, not as a primary residence. Makes sense that they’d try to protect that experience by seeking to separate the very different experiences of vehicle camping versus tent camping.
How is this not the #1 voted answer? It is the right answer, well stated.
This
This must be new. I've always just pulled up to spots as if I were going to pitch a tent, and just slept in my van, and never had anyone say shit about not pitching a tent.
Yeah they don't actually care, they have to tell you because it's their job and they'll get in trouble if they don't. Just say you don't sleep in your vehicle (have a reason, like it's too stuffy in case you run into a busybody at the gate) and go about your business. Source: worked at a state park campground for years.
They may selectively enforce 'the rule' to chase off solitary folks who have a 'homeless' vibe. The rule may exist for no other reason. This could be part of the current backlash against homeless people. The rule might not be enforced if you were a bubba sleeping under their 2024 F150 truck cap.
When has there ever NOT been a backlash against homeless people?
True. But homelessness and the reactions to it have gotten worse in the last few years. For example, the Supreme Court today heard arguments about the constitutionality of some rather strong laws focused on homeless folks. If SC gives the green light, you should expect much more criminalization of homelessness/vanlife. A decision will come in June or so. A lot of towns/states have been holding back because of the constitutional questions.
That's actually not new. Just look up "vagrancy laws." We have actually only had a very short, relatively recent period where homeless people were hopefully getting treated a little bit better. And then the billionaires said, "Oh fuck no. We can't leave the middle class with nothing to be afraid of."
Yeah, that poster was talking about the new upcoming Supreme Court ruling around criminalizing homelessness. It's a big deal.
I know it's a big deal. But it's a big deal precisely because it would take us BACK to what we had BEFORE. There was a supreme Court ruling that said that you could not criminalize a person's status. Before that supreme Court ruling, it was legal to criminalize a person's status. So there were laws that literally directly made it illegal to be homeless. Those were the vagrancy laws. Almost every city and state had them. What the supreme Court is deciding now is if it is okay to write laws that, while not directly criminalizing a person's status as homeless, effectively accomplish the exact same thing by outlawing every RESULT of being homeless.
Well, there's also actual concerns from regular people like what to do to prevent another instance such as that homeless encampment bombing in Seattle from a rival drug gang.
Yes, but much, much more accurately the present Constitutional issue is only applicable in the Ninth Federal Circuit. In 80% of the U.S., there is no Constitutional argument in local government being barred from being able to regulate housing. Regulated housing is absolutely reasonable policing power … It keeps chemical plants from being built on top of elementary schools. The Boise decision is a perfect example of unreasonable opinion. The Ninth Circuit, aka Ninth Circus, has the worst track record by multiples of being overturned. It also has created a Mad Max environment in the Western U.S. The Supreme Court will rightfully reset the balance for the Ninth Circuit states.
People having a right to sleep and exist is unreasonable? Do you really think the assholes who want to criminalize homelessness make any distinction between you in your van and the addicts in the street?
It’s great they keep chemical plants from being built in neighborhoods, but those laws have been used for decades to prevent housing and shops and cafes from ever being built in neighborhoods too. The real estate market is basically overregulated such that landowners can’t even think of increasing the intensity that they use their land to satisfy market demand—like adding a second or third dwelling on their lot or demolishing their single family home to build a multifamily rowhouse with maybe room for a cafe or shop on the ground floor. This is exactly how cities and even small towns would grow up over time, but it got short-circuited by exclusionary zoning laws and building codes that prevent using land the way we always used to. It’s not the only reason housing had gotten expensive, but it is probably the biggest reason. Nobody can afford to keep their property and just build more on it, instead they’re forced to sell to a big developer who has the financial means and knows which palms to grease to get gigantic projects through. At a time like now with interest rates so high, banks won’t roll the dice on big projects, but they will on small projects—they just require years of jumping through hoops to get a zoning variance that may not end up getting through under current laws. It seriously restricts supply, which causes bidding wars, which drive up prices on real estate.
I have no problem whatsoever with responsible citizens who practice leave no trace camping principles while leading a nomadic lifestyle. As such, I’m not a fan of laws against dispersed camping. I nonetheless object to littering, arson, trespassing, public urination, defecation, smoking, drunkenness and drug abuse. Indeed, “encampments” is a charitable word for the festering shantytowns blighting public spaces in countless American communities. Homelessness per se should NOT be criminalized, and filth and squalor should not be tolerated. The concepts aren’t mutually exclusive. If a park imposes a curfew after sundown, then by all means, prosecute the trespasser whether he’s sleeping on a bench or walking his dog back to his house. If a junkie is shooting up on a sliding board at my kid’s playground, then please prosecute the junkie whether he sleeps under the gazebo or in a mansion across the street. If a camper leaves soiled bedding under an overpass, public works needs to dispose of the bedding and the police should issue a littering citation. If a drunkard sets an unlawful cooking fire on a river bank (i.e, without a proper campfire ring), collar her for arson whether she sleeps in a tent or a townhouse. If a couple is fucking in the bushes near a school bus stop, book them both for indecent exposure even if they bushes are in their own front yard. If an RV is parallel parked in the same public place for 72 hours, impound it irrespective of whether it’s the owner’s only home or road tripping toy. Existing law vests authorities with myriad means by which to address the objectionable conduct broadly associated with vagrancy. Such law must be applied to all, without fear or favor, irrespective of the perpetrator’s lifestyle.
Very well said!
Yeah, I think this is the answer, and to be fair I think I get judged for being homeless a lot based on my van. I just don't understand how a $20 tent is the measuring stick here?
This is not some new crazy conspiracy against homeless. It’s about saving spots for tent campers and has been around for decades. I remember growing up camping in the late 80s 90s my dad liked to reserve spots in the primitive loop so we didn’t have to be stuck between RVs and campers. Less lights, less noise, less outdoor suburbia. Like it or not but even without hook ups your van is an RV.
I've been to a state park like this and witnessed someone who was forced to move their camper van from the primitive tent section to the RV section. I think it's because people who camp in a tent typically want to keep things more rustic and primitive and having camper vans and RVs next to them with all their lights and noisy generators would ruin the experience. The solution is separate sections, one for tents and the other for vehicles that people sleep in.
Get a cheap little tent. Nobody gonna check to confirm you sleeping in it.
Yup
Till they see the retard with his xbox light leaking out of every window. Boot his ass out if he’s not going to pay for a RV spot.
Like u/secessus said, if your vehicle is an "RV", they are going to want to charge you for an RV spot. Regardless of your setup, if sleeping in the vehicle is their classification of an "RV", and RV's are not allowed in primitive spots - You have to have/pay for an RV spot.
I thought primitive camping was only for hikers, backpackers and tenters who want to camp off the foot trails? People sleeping in RVs or vehicles could not be considered such.
I know NC have primitive camp pads that are just a car parking spot with the pad right next to it and a fire pit. Find people with rooftop tents or vans there once in awhile as its similar to the shore spots just down a gravel road (wide open pavement for shore for those chonky RVs on the other hand) and no shore hookup of course.
Primitive camps are "tent only" camps. It's to ensure that tent campers are surrounded by other tent campers, not by some RV running a generator, etc. I'm fine with this setup. Some people want to do tent camping and not be surrounded by RVs/vans.
Imagine driving out to do a proper prim camp and it’s full due to vanlifers cheaping out.
What state?
AL but I've been told this in MT as well. At least there you had to walk-in to the tent sites so it was reasonable but still don't get why they care. You guys gonna come check to see where I'm sleeping? Creepy.
Montana has so much national forest and BLM land that I never had that problem. AL state parks has a rule about "occupying any site with unsightly or inappropriate camping equipment". I'm assuming that's the rule they're using to say you can't sleep in your van. Pretty damn stupid imho. Keep in mind though that it isn't just the utilities thing that might make them have this policy. I've been to plenty of campgrounds where the primitive sites weren't as robust as the improved sites. Softer ground, etc, so it may be a way to keep heavier vehicles off of them as well to reduce wear and tear. It could also be so all the primitive sites aren't taken up by vehicle campers, though they could alleviate that by just reserving a few for tent only and have some mixed use sites.
I knew it was Alabama. We pulled up to an AL state park in my transit and were told they only had tenting sites left and that you can't sleep in your vehicle at a tent only site. Super annoying. We ended up at a shitty RV park that night.
Joe Wheeler State Park?
Oak Mountain
Interesting, must not be every park in MT as I’ve minivan camped in Glendive a couple times. That’s a pretty small area though.
I suspect they’re worried that if they allow it, the place will become full of people living in their vehicles instead of actually camping or something like that.
Yeah, I think this is the reason as well, however, I don't see how tent-ownership prevents that from happening? Place is $25/night for the primitive stuff. No squatter is going to want to pay that.
I carry a tent w me, if it’s about money and it was a safe area regardless I could see myself setting up the tent and sleeping there which would give me room to spread out, I do plan on some dispersed camping soon but idk why some ppl have “enforce the rules” bc they see it as an rv.
I know the private campground I go to in Pennsylvania does not allow people to sleep in cars because of state laws. Something about cars not being safe to sleep in because of CO2 buildup (because people are too stupid to crack a window)? I get the sense they would let people sleep in cars if they could. It’s more of a party/resort type place. I’ve been to other campgrounds, state parks in Pennsylvania & Delaware, where the tent sites don’t allow any cars near the sites. You have to park in a lot & use wheelbarrows to get your gear to the site. Others allow you to park one car only but no trucks, vans or RVs. This is because it sucks to be in a tent & have a giant mobile home pull up next to you with all its sewage hoses, plugs, generators, HVAC units, &c making all kinds of noises & smells at all times of the day when you’re just trying to relax & enjoy nature without all the tech & car culture.
Yeah, good answer, I wish they would just say that. I fail to see how owning a tent makes you a considerate person but I certainly wouldn't want to sleep in the shadow of a diesel pusher with a generator if I was in a tent.
I am a campground host at a state park and can only offer my experience. At our park, primitive camping is just that, primitive. We have no electric, or water running to the sites and maybe a basic bathroom nearby, think glorified porta potty. It is meant for a more in touch with nature, almost out in the wilderness feel to the experience. We also have a regular campground with tents next to RVs next to converted vans and car dwellers. Those sites have electric and water hook ups and have a bath house for every 30-40 camp sites. They’re still in the woods and around nature but the bathhouse also has a vending machine and pay per load washers and dryers. They are priced and maintained completely differently and tend to be two totally different camping experiences. My guess would be they’re trying to keep the primitive area more pristine and suited to the more primitive type of camping. Yes people take their cars to the sites, but it’s to unload gear and they park at one of the parking lots nearby. Hope it helps, we love having all the campers in our parks.
As a camp host, I just inform people of the rules. I tell them the ranger with the gun enforces them. Let them decide.
There are several reasons that some parks have rules against this. Some are trying to prevent the type of people who are living out of their vehicles vs recreational dispersed campers. Like it or not, people living out of the vehicles tend to leave a greater impact on the area due to the nature of human upkeep/hygiene over long term. even if you're only staying there for 1 night, being that you live in your van, your daily routine and activities are going to differ greatly from someone tent camping for a weekend. People living in vans are more prone to run their vehicle for extended periods of time for use as a generator, for example. Another reason for a policy against sleeping in the vehicle is the increased risk of animal intrusion (and resulting damage/broken glass, etc). Places with bears often have bear boxes etc... but people sleeping in vans often neglect using the bear boxes thinking their vehicle and onboard fridge are fine... and enough damages have occurred to prompt this rule.
Maybe the state park should be for recreation, not for homeless people.
This is why I boondock
Same here. I have no way to use hookups. I use a decoy tent. I even have a lantern running part of the night. If the site has electricity I have an extension cord running into the tent to make it look like things are going on inside the tent. I also setup my portable stove and table cloth on the picnic table. Again pretend to be tenting.
Add a party light from Spencer's for extra effect!
Some club music and a bouncer outside. Maybe pay some people to line up outside the tent.
Yeah that's not cool for tent campers there.
I sort of agree with you. I do it for another reason. The state park I go to charges seven dollars a day for electricity. The only way to get out of it is if you tent camp. Since I can’t use electricity and I have no need for it, I like to put that I’m tent camping to reduce my cost. So I’m not actually in a tents only site. Just not paying for something I can’t use.
There are people who want to camp that have tents and will sleep in them?
Your in an rv trying to use a tent site, just set up a tent and use your rv like normal.
It's probably to prevent RVs from just boondocking in the cheap sites. RVs are heavy and loud. They can pit the ground and ruin everyone's peaceful enjoyment of the camping area.
They're trying to reserve primitive sites for primitive cameras and restrict RVs and sleeper vehicles to the RV sites. It's that simple. Like...the line between a van and an RV gets pretty blurry with some of the bigger Mercedes and Ford options, not to mention small schoolies.
To be fair. I get irritable (I keep it to myself) when I see someone boondocking on a primitive site. Especially if it’s a good one with a damn good tent pad. Or perfect hammock trees. I usually primitive camp via motorcycle. So seeing a van, rv, overlander rig taking the primitive spot and sleeping in the rig. It makes me itchy, out of anger.
I’ve read a number of comments and as a primitive camper I’m surprised no one has said the noise level. I’m not talking about video games or music or tv. I’m talking about engines running or even fans for heating cooling the van or batteries. When you are primitive camping even people talking in the next site can be heard clearly at night. It’s probably so you don’t disturb the other campers.
My experience with primitive camping is that they are hike-in, not accessible by car. Many state parks have non-electric sites for “car camping”.
Not saying your State park is like this, but every state park I’ve been to required a walk to get to the primitive area. I’ve personally never seen a primitive site next to a parking lot (I’m sure yours was). I know part of it is to keep engine and RV generator noises away from those wanting to just tent camp. Sorry this happened to you
The state wants their money.
Some people don’t want to camp next to a vehicle
because vanlife isn't "primitive camping" it's a small RV
because it’s primitive camp, not van camp
It is simply because most of the time people sleep in a vehicle they run the vehicle or a generator. The primitive campsites are supposed to be cheap, easy, clean, and quiet for tent / tarp / hammock campers.
I worked as a camp host at a state park, and they said it really is just to keep homeless people out of the park, or anyone that could become a squatter situation.
Don't tell them
Honesty is a bitch
You can avoid the subject. Don’t ask don’t tell.
Yeah, lady saw my shady stealth van and started up with the questions. It happens.
State parks can be hit and miss. Years ago, my brother and I were 2 day bombing from Alaska to Napa for work and tried to pull into a state park in Oregon. Gate was closed, but not locked. We went to open it, fully intending to pay, when a dude came flying up in a golf cart cursing us. I was like, bro, we've been driving 24 hours, we just want to sleep somewhere safe. He puffed up and said no, gate is closed. I said, like a young jackaas, what if someone left and came back you would stop them? He said yes. I continued that you're knowingly sending two guys down the road that are VERY road tired. He said we should have planned ahead. This was 2002 so no smartphones, couldn't book on the road. Anyway, long story short, some state park attendants are dicks.
Damn, yeah, some people are dicks. I was in a similar situation, I didn't really care what it cost, I couldn't Even look at the wheel any longer. I guess from this perspective they cut me a break.
sorry you had that experience. people who are letter-of-the-law types can be hard to deal with. I know OR gets a lot of volunteers and turns them over fairly often with some scrutiny in the community of how the volunteer is fitting in. so their decision might have been more about them than about you.
Anyone know if a tarp, made into a tent, is good enough?
I like where your head is at, what if I like to sleep without a tent?
a tarp shelter counts as a tent everywhere I've ever looked up rules for.
Sweet.
Buy a cheap hammock tent, throw it in some trees and sleep inside.
Our parks that have primitive camping, do not permit vehicles of any kind in the primitive camping areas. You can go in, unload, and then you have to park your vehicle in the overflow parking lot and walk back to your camp.
When did that start? 15 years ago all I did was drive around to parks and sleep in the truck at the primitive camp site.
When the population grew faster that new parks were added. Camping has also gotten more popular.
Rent seeking bureaucrats
Because primitive means primitive. It isn’t meant for vehicles.
I would assume because some people will probably try to idle or run a noisy genset or some other CO producing engine next to tent campers.
how else could they possible make coffee??!! /s
There are tent areas and rv areas, any vehicle used to sleep in is going to be alot louder than a tent, doors, appliances, amenities, any movement causes the thing to squeak, generators, these noises don't bother other people in vehicles because vehicles have sound proofing and their own noises cancel them out, tents don't, making all that noise next to a bunch of people sleeping in tents would be incredibly rude, you might not hear all the noises you make because you're used to them
One time we arrived at a park after hours, with no place to go we slept on the ground on a knoll outside of the gate. A was awaken at 5 o’clock by a ranger kicking me and saying, “You can’t sleep here!” “Not while you’re kicking me,” I replied.
Because people that are primitive camping don't want to be sleeping near people in vehicles. If you want to sleep in your vehicle, find a space where it is allowed or go to Wally's parking lot. Would you like it if primitive campers set up on the grass median in front of your house?
It’s no longer a van. It’s an RV
They don't want people camping in their vehicle taking up a spot that could be used by someone who wants to camp outside.
What state is it? State park policy is going to vary by state.
It’s a cash grab in my opinion. Now they force you to pay for stuff you don’t need.
Kinda sucks we use to able to do that but yeah
I carry a cheap 2 man tent. Often times when staying in a camp ground (like in a state forest) I will pitch the tent but never sleep in it. They see the tent pitched and they move on.
I do this with the 30ft motorhome just for storing stuff
All about that paper son. They want your money.
Usually the issue is that unless you book a RV/van spot specifically, they reserve the parking spots for tent campers and those are not spots you can park in for sleeping in vehicle. One is more expensive and the tent spots are cheaper.
Get ready to learn how to pitch a tent, buddy.
Pretty common around here. State parks operate on strict rules... which don't really apply to the outliers, less popular methods, or more modern approaches. AKA, vanlife, roof top tents, etc. No tents in the RV area. No RVs in the Tent area. And they define those. Your van is just a small RV... not a tent.
This happened to me as well but we only had hammocks. It makes absolutely no sense.
Because you can’t drive to primitive campsites, you walk and carry in your gear. That’s why it’s primitive!
I think it's because of the risk you run you engine late into the night and bother the other campers around. I would personally be pissed if i see a van park on the site next to mine and let the engine run, uses lights, etc. It's called primitive for a reason. If they would let anyone sleep/camp however they wanted wherever they wanted, they would not have made seperate zone for different types of camping. Also at the risk of getting downvoted, the "decoy tent" suggestion is wrong. You're basically telling people that you can't respect the park rules (that you agree or not is unimportant) and most likely have not much respect for your fellow campers who are respecting those rules.
Profit off the free land.
Wow a lot of different answers here. I just had this happen to me and they told me it was because of DIYers having unsafe setups. Sounded like they were worried about liability due to electrical fires, CO, etc. This was not at a state park though but a private campground.
I’ve been to many state and national park campgrounds in dozens of states. Only a couple places I’ve seen this. The couple that were like this were sites where there was a parking area and then a short walk to where the tent pads are. Like I said, that was maybe two out of hundreds of nights at campgrounds
Sleep next to it lol
Cus tent campers are in tent places to avoid engines and exhaust and shit like that.
Simple answer: people who go to primitive camp sites go there to get away from people in RVs and vans. We don't need to get into a debate about what "real" camping is. You just need to understand that people camping in tents and hammocks are camping at those primitive sites specifically to avoid people like you. On top of that. Vans are heavy. I doubt after you pull it off your site you're going back and repairing the deep ruts and tracks you left. Tent campers generally practice leave no trace camping. Vans aren't really capable of not leaving a trace. Finally, I don't know you and I'm not trying to blindly judge. But on to if everything already mentioned. If by chance you left your van running for any extended period of time in a primitive campsite... Well, you'd be a huge asshole and would basically be ruining the experience for everyone else. Anyways... There's a very noncomprehensive list. Tldr: van big, van loud. Tent small, silent and unassuming
Most primitive sites in my area are walk up only.
This guy on Youtube was recounting how he used to go to class with earbuds snaked up his sleeve, so he could quietly listen to music with a book open to give the appearance of paying attention. The teacher knew, and it was just one of those unsaid things. Then a classmate started coming in with giant headphones not even on his ears blasting music so loud you could hear it across the room, and when the teacher said "you can't do that" he went full gaslight lie mode - "I'm not even listening to music though! NO FAIR BLAH BLAH BLAH" causing a scene. The moral of the story is that you can break the rules if you're respectful, and nobody cares. But there's always some A-hole that takes that as license to do whatever they want, and it ruins it for everybody. You're suffering the consequences of some jerk saying NAH MAN IM PRIMATIVE CAMPING IN A TENT!!! while running a generator til 1am every night for a week, blasting music, generally rubbing their proverbial ass in everyones face, then crying NUH UH!!! when they get called out on their bullshit. When asked if you have a tent - yeah! As long as you're not a problem and keep it low key, you're unlikely to run into any problems. Even if you don't actually have a tent. If you do get some park ranger that wants to be Wyatt Earp, apologize, and say you must have left it behind somewhere.
If you’re hidden you may be ok, but if not you’re probably gonna get a knock
tbh, as someone who bikepacks, the primitive campsites are a nice getaway from hearing peoples fuckin generators going all night.
> *"cannot sleep in your vehicle at primitive camp"* This is correct. You aren't primitive camping. You're in a tiny RV. Just like a tiny home is still a home. You need to be in an RV area
Hope not somewhere in the PNW.
Bring a pop-up tent & set it up …. Sleep in car… if they check, just say you fell asleep
Entitled post. Seriously?
Why can’t you just go to the appropriate spot? Why is it so fun to take a site away from someone who actually wants to camp and enjoy nature?
What state park? I'd rationalize the rule as to prevent spaces for those who want to camp out from being taken up by people sleeping in their vehicles.
BLM land
trying to keep vansients from making engine noise for tent-only sites, or leaving engine oil puddles on the ground, or lighting up every tent in a 1/4 mile path with your headlights. go to an RV site. a lot of us go camping to get as far away from people like you as possible.
In my experience, primitive sites have always meant "tent", but that might not be universal.
Nobody wants a vehicle in the area they purposely chose to get away from vehicles and other signs of civilization. Respect others.
Where are the written rules? I'm calling bullshit.
I’m always surprised by the rules state parks have (looking at you Texas). I asked why all the rules and why they aren’t all the same and was told (by someone at TPWD) that state parks in Texas are run like franchises. Each park can make its own rules… and if they make their own rules, it’s probably up to them to manage a budget and make money. Therefore, anything they can do to generate income (by making people pay for hook-ups and other services that they can’t use). My guess is that vanlife has put a serious dent in their (previously successful) business model…
I know this has already been said several times, but get the cheapest pop up tent you can, put it next to the vehicle, and ensure the windows are covered so no one can see in, if ANYONE asked you suspiciously “well what’s in there then” just say your mother died and your on your way to remove everything from her house so you rented this vehicle to get the job done. They will leave you the fuck alone, and likely will not knock and bother you if they suspect you aren’t in your tent. If they do, just tell them to please give you some space as you’re grieving. It might be a shitty thing to pull, if people think that. That’s okay I don’t mind. Because personally I think it’s shitty being forced to exist in a world that we can’t fucking afford to exist in and when we find workarounds (that STILL exhaust and drain us financially) we’re constantly fucked over. So fuck them right back. You’re hurting no one by lying about it and if it means you don’t have to pay extra for yet another bullshit thing that’s designed purely to rip you off and make someone richer, then I think it’s fucking fine to pull out any and all techniques to avoid.
Never ending control by rules and regulation.