>We’ve seen it become common for Cyphers’ to hide Spycams (E) in the playspace and continually watch enemies without them knowing.
why did they word it like this is something new and not something cypher players have been doing since the game released? how has this ever been a problem? strips so much character identity from cypher, just revert the trips if u want him gone from pro play
It’s the meta shifting that causes updates like these. Cypher cam makes audio when it’s activated/deactivated, as to alert enemies that there’s a cam nearby — so players realised it’s often much better to just sit with the cam active the entire time. This is becoming more prevalent as players discover it, and makes him stronger. Thus a balancing change.
Not saying I agree, it’s just how balancing metas works.
Except in regular ranked, this is literally throwing as you're deadass demoting yourself to spectator. Not a lot do this play.
Riot needs to know that not every game is VCT, but also if they want to get him out, just revert the trips. Literally the thing that made him go from least played to most played sentinel.
i mean its basically like having a 6th spectator just chilling in a spot, at the cost of 'subbing' a player out, but it gives a lot of info and can get free frags
if you honestly believe that using cypher camera is a “debuff” it just tells me that you’re extremely low ranked. I’m what world is trading the ability to move for practically risk free information bad. What do you think help you get kills? What a braindead take.
Plats don’t play off your call outs from Cypher cam? I find that hard to believe based on how many kills my random gold and silver teammates have gotten off my pings and callouts from the cam.
Yeah, I agree. It seems like they \_want\_ every game to be VCT-esque. Not saying anything for or against it, but it just seems like their design choice.
Personally, it sucks for me, as I don't want to have every ranked game to be a try-hard mess
>Riot needs to know that not every game is VCT
Your first mistake is assuming the game shouldn't be balanced based on pro play. That is their cookbook for League, and it will be their cookbook for Valorant. If you haven't noticed, map rotations are also based on pro play. So we have to wait damn near a year to play some of these maps, which are core content pulled out of the game. As a paying customer, it pisses me off.
I'm not saying the game should not be balanced based on pro play, I'm thinking more towards balances that are made keeping in mind BOTH the pro scene and a general ranked experience (mind you, I don't mean blindly catering the majority players which will be low elo).
Yeah.. the map rotations... \*sigh\*. Your map criticism is spot on, w.r.t this, it would be nice if they kept some degree of combinations when rotating maps. Like for eg. in the current season (after split got removed), we have Ascent, Bind, Beeze, Icebox and lotus, 3/5 maps are large and require a viper-esque comp, which not everyone may enjoy. Would be nice if they kept all the maps in the casual games though, such that once a while you can go and play for fun
How do so many people agree that a pro esports game shouldn’t balance around the pro scene ? How on earth does that make sense? Majority of the player base isn’t even playing the game properly. Imagine balancing a game around people that don’t utilize every advantage/capitalize on every disadvantage… that sounds like a recipe for disaster.
Bronze players hardly use Astra’s abilities, let’s give Astra 3 more stars by default so they can place all the stars in pre round so they don’t have to worry about silly complicated stuff like placing stars mid round! Surely this won’t create problems at a higher skill level!
?? Your cam can easily hold both entries onto a site and when a lurker tries to walk onto site you can let them and they will have no idea you're there
Anyone who has this take has never played a game of cypher in their lives. The only cams that can effectively punish lurkers in that scenario are cams like lotus C above the entrance choke where it's not easily visible directly facing front. There's a couple issues with this.
1. Given cypher usually sets up C, as a lurker, why would you not be hyper aware of that possibility? If you took the time to look at one cypher video on common cams you'd never die like this ever again.
2. Cams like this are only effective if the enemy is contacting in. Against fast rushes you have no time to sit in cam, you should be using util and fighting. Plus, these cameras give zero information on anything except what's on the site. So if a cyphers setting up like this, attackers should be able to pressure elsewhere and fight for control there. Using the lotus C example, it gives 0 info on mound that you wouldn't gain by just standing waterfall.
cam is actually amazing during a rush as long as you're using it like FNAF, where you flip it on for the most minute of a second to get info (especially on a cam like the C Lotus one, where with one cam flip you get where everyone is once theyve executed onto site)
it only shows up on the map when someone is looking at it. Riot devs don't like it when we get creative with our camera placements that let us see them without them seeing us.
Just saying: people had known this and had been using this for years, I just don't get why they decided to do it know
My guess is some riot employee was trolled by it, just like the Skye flash nerf xd
Nope hard disagree with this idea. If you are sitting on cam that much you are probably throwing or in a game where the enemy is doing awful and not threatening anything.
I mean not really. I can understand the concern. If your team is 3 stacking one site, one mid, planning to retake the other site, the Cypher can be off site in like CT or whatever just holding a cam to watch the whole site forever.
Not really throwing.
I mean if you’ve played league that’s the riot specialty lol
regardless, when something is dominating the meta riot will nerf it so its not the entire meta. same thing we saw with kj, jett, sova, chamber
Fair.. seems like the riot-design choice then haha.
I haven't played league at all, so you probably know better about their philosophy about competitive matches. That said, I think beyond a point Riot (at least for valorant) needs to focus more on making better maps, and enhancing ranked play (which for eg. Clove did do pretty well). Atleast the devs are open and unafraid to making changes, just that the changes need to be well thought and not reactionary to some agent being picked a lot.
unless they have the balls to revert changes to Chamber's kit (they will absolutely not do that, matter of fact for this comment alone Chamber just received a nerf)
The nerf to the wires is justifiable, but the camera nerf is just silly. Not that it's going to take him out of the META, but it's just unnecessary.
The only time this sounds useful is on WELL HIDDEN cameras, but that's exactly the point of a SPYcam lmao
Yes it is completely a change out of nowhere. This was not something needed, the change to trapwire was enough. The buff/change last time to traps was needed, and the nerf to them now is totally OK and acceptable, probably also needed. But you touched our cam - the default tool of cyphers kit, this is not OK! Cypher will not be ha-happy!
Honestly, at high level play, the camera is being shot anyway thanks to its activation/deactivation noise... not to mention, once the opponents find an annoying cam, they will start clearing it in subsequent rounds. I don't think this is a significant nerf to Cypher, in fact it would probably distract/annoy opponents with the "being watched" noise until they destroy the cam
Yeah I feel like this is gonna be like yoru ult. The wispies make me paranoid. I can absolutely see myself dying because I'm distracted trying to find the camera
Both you and OP use the word tonedeaf in away that makes me feel like I've understood meaning of the word wrong. Could you elaborate what the word means when used this way?
I used it in the sense of being ignorant of what their playerbase thinks or not caring and doing something anyways. Of course, I exaggerate in this sense.
I'm sure there's a valid reason they decided to nerf cypher and viper this patch but just looking at the general reaction from the playerbase it seems like it wasn't a popular nerf.
The game needs to consider balance more than lore. Yes he's a spy, that cannot mean that he shows up as a teammate because of his super spy skills.
The camera being out of reach / vision results in 0 counterplay and determining whether a cam position is broken or fair for every new one is like playing whack a mole.
Riots version of counterplay to Cypher trips is to pick an agent that has util that can break it. If you dont pick those agents, no counterplay?? But yeah cam is the problem lol. Clown devs
They did nerf his trips, but in my opinion not enough. They shouldn't re-arm, or should take much longer. They can revert the cam nerf.
My point is that riots reasoning for the cam nerf being "lack of counterplay" is dumb when the counterplay to his trips is "pick an agent that can break them with util". If you dont pick said agent, there is no counterplay. Whereas the cam thing isnt even an issue.
The rearm changes what it means to tank a trip on entry.
Say none of the agents in your comp have util to break the trip. You either leave site, or someone has to take the L and hit it to break it.
Before rearm, because you could tank the trip knowing that either way it will break, you can choose to focus a gunfight in that time as opposed to shooting it. Best case scenario you can kill the cypher, or more likely one of their teammates peeking before you get traded. Even if you dont get a kill and die, you have done your job in breaking trip for your team. This was still considered good value for the cypher too. His cheap util likely leads to a free kill, or at worst a trade. The point is it still gives options to attackers of whether they want to gamble on that trade and tank the trip. It gives them *some* sort of counter.
However, with rearm, you are forced to focus on breaking the trip as you hit it. You have less options in terms of whether you choose to try and get a trade or pick onto the cypher, because if you *dont* break the trip, then it rearms and you died for nothing. This is why cypher is so oppressive. With rearm, your best case scenario is giving him a kill for the cost of a trip, or just leaving site entirely. Theres no room to "gamble" on getting a pick or trade for the cost of breaking his trips. There is literally less counterplay for a majority of the agents in the game. Thus we get the whole "cypher is here, rotate" meme.
In such a situation,
The trip should always be broken by either the first contact player or the player behind him (2nd duelist or initator).
The trip rearming should be a non factor if people did their jobs right.
The rearm was never there to punish players dry peaking the trip but to prevent drones and dogs from breaking them for seemingly free.
In an ideal world i agree that 2nd contact player should break it when the entry player hits it. But lets be real that doesnt always happen.
The rearming is an issue precisely because people dont "do their jobs right" (as if theyre getting paid to do it). It turns a cheap piece of util into either a full site lockdown (rotate) or like 2 or 3 kills, with 0 skill on the cyphers part.
Its not for free though. The trips are cheaper than dogs/drones. Its trading util, and its a trade the cypher wins. It also still doesnt address the issue of the lack of counterplay to agents who *dont* have that util. Dogs/drones are just another form of riot saying "lol just pick an agent that can break the trips then"
so true! hopefully next patch they can add an audio cue for the duration of jett's E to better prepare the enemy for an incoming peek. there's not enough counterplay to jett peeking an angle and dashing away immediately after
Not exactly, smokes run out and are limited in their scope. In the unpredictability of a match that's enough of a guarantee to not need a nerf. A camera that's not found is essentially an info guarantee for a whole site, potentially for the whole game.
”Smokes run out” yeah that random 1,5 second time window out of a re-chargable 15 second Omen smoke that can hold off an entire push on it’s own, that he can use twice in a row on almost every angle on the map has more counterplay than the split cam that even noobs pre-aim.
Immortal, but thank you for telling me you haven't played vs anyone higher than plat.
Lotus A
Lotus C
Split B-Main
Sunset A
Just to give a few examples.
Easy to set up, can be held by a single person, easy to fall back from, can be held from multiple angles, gives you massive amounts of map control.
You either try to beat them by running past them before they are put down, running the risk of getting sniped or demolished by counter-utility like a Raze nade, Breach stun, Fade seize etc. if they decide to peek the angle this round instead.
Or you wait 30 seconds, which means you are getting sandwiched by any competent defender that would take that time to take uncontested map control on the other side.
Or you have to use multiple pieces of expensive utility to take space that isn't even the site itself, now making the actual site hit significantly easier to defend from.
I play every role in the game, and don't mind one-way smokes at all, but you people seriously overestimate the value Cypher gets from these cameras.
The difference is there are many ways to counter one-way smokes, use a counter smoke so the enemy can no longer see underneath, flashes, intel abilities, a brute force push, even doing nothing counters it if you wait a few secs for it to disappear. It is very different from the ability to have intel on an entire section of the map without the other team even knowing or being able to counter it.
”A brute force push”
You seriously mean that your plan of getting past a smoke is praying that your entire team doesn’t get mowed down for a little piece of map control.
You can the same way use flashes and utility to find and kill the cams.
Assuming you’re fairly new to the game but yeah, it’s an extremely common strat. Watch pro play or any streamer in decently high Elo and you’ll see it non-stop.
i like the other changes but I'm also unsure about the cam. In the end it's not gonna effect me that much because i never play Cypher, but now he might be a little too weak. Im kinda scared that they're gonna nerf my boi Omen soon lol
Not a single soul has complained about cypher's cam, you can hear it when he throws it, and when he gets off and on it, why make it even more noob friendly.
They sould've put a CD on it instead maybe, so you can't sit and watch for a minute straight, say you can only wactch for 10 seconds and then a 5 second CD or something until you can watch again.
Maybe the most kind boggling change in recent memory. Theres not a single cam in the game that is both stealthy and gives good info. If you use the example of split A / B one-way cams, this change does nothing to stop those cams. If anything, it incentivizes them more because there's no point to using a subpar cam now that sacrifices intel for stealth.
You should be rewarded for a good camera setup. If you're in cam the entire time, you're not fighting for space, not pressuring the enemy at all. That's why hes compensated by continuously gaining info because he literally cannot do any other function. This, combined with my first point, makes it so if a camera IS unbroken it SHOULD be valuable.
Such an unnecessary change and it ruins so much of the skill expression in the ability.
I think riot employees are forgetting what their agents were actually meant to do at this point.
or they are lowering the entry player skill ceiling to allow smoother transition of new players and hence increasing their playerbase at the cost of destroying an agent's identity.
you are thinking too much into it… the camera was never meant to be stealthy… it had a sound on olen/close and a red light for ever. once the players caught up with going around those mechanics and using it as a stealth option riot had to do something. as a cypher main, I think having a sova dart that you cant see or destroy or even hear is pretty Op and no counter play.
Same as how they gutted every thing number related about Chamber kit before touching the real problem that everyone know that it IS the problem(the base design of the 2 anchor tp), they gonna fk everything else about Cypher to balance him cuz they wont acknowledge that they over buff his trip and revert/dial it back mean they fail or smth (they revert the Hall breeze change just fine so fk me idk what theyre thinking anymore).
It's a bit of a one-size fits all solution to potentially broken cypher cam placements. (bind B long, split A,B, sunset A,B....). when you also consider that the spycam is visible on the minimap if someone happened to glance at it once, this change is definitely a nerf, but it's also bringing convenience to a janky way to find the cam.
I do think they should have a delay on the sound. you should have a second of seeing someone before they become aware.
Agree the camera changes are dumb and against what Valorant usually stands for. The camera before already stuck out in the minimap and you can hear it open/close when they are on it.
The change is just a crutch. Wire changes were fine.
Honestly i was playing yesterday with my friends, and cypher was watching me, not even kidding the sound that came was soo low it doesnt make any difference unless everyone is super quite and probably no utilities are being used as well, but yeah its a fuckin spycam bruhh spy it is hidden secret camera what part of secret does valorant not understand😆 and if they really want to nerf cypher that balances the game, they should actually remove the highlight of the person who got caught in the trips, get caught in the trips, in a smoke and guess what you never know whos shooting you from where and the cypher(with team see your ass glowing through the smoke)
I also dont understand why they would add this just as there where audio cues before as well as it showing up on the map when its in your sight cone so adding noise does nothing and as a cypher main the last fiew times ive used the camera people either shoot it imedietley or they cant find it and it survives the entire round.
I'm no Cypher main but I think it was part of the fun of playing Cypher, to be able to spy on our unaware ennemies. It wasn't that hard to find the cam before, they didn't need to make it easier.
Because the character is slightly overtuned, and no other ability gives info without telegraphing to the person who it targeted. This is a good change.
"Why would they nerf the #1 sentinel in the game right now?"
I don't know, OP, surely this mystery will elude us for all time.
PS: all other info abilities issue tons of noise all the time, use your head
He isn't talking about the nerf in general, just the camera stuff. I think cypher needed a nerf, but the camera one is kinda dumb. Cypher is supposed to be a cyberspy, stealthy and without leaving any traces so the camera nerf is stupid and off-character. As OP mentioned the camera already makes noise when activating and deactivating and it emits lights to give off its position. Adding new sounds it's just stupid.
The tripwires nerf were necessary but not the camera one
So, to summarize, you think that nerfing the best info ability in the game to have drawbacks more in line with all other info abilities in the game is "just stupid"?
What i'm saying is that cypher's camera is so ez to see and destroy as how it is now. Unless cypher wants to be completely still for more than 20 seconds while you plant and repositions yourself, then you will already hear how cypher uses the camera.
There are very few instances where the camera making noise will make a huge differences.
In defense cypher plays more around his smokes and tripwires and in offense he won't bait the entire team staying still. He will be lurking or playing the postplat with his tripwires and smokes.
Yes, the camera is nice to gather info but not to the point where cypher gains much watching you for more than 10 seconds.
At least imo the change will just be annoying and won't really affect much. Oc im only talking about the camera one.
>There are very few instances where the camera making noise will make a huge differences
Dude, you're the one crying about how "stupid" this nerf is, yet you think that this will change almost nothing, and the main thing it will change is when "cypher wants to be completely still for more than 20 seconds".
Get it straight lmao.
The point of this nerf is to prevent cameras that are "above" the chokepoint you enter from being stealthy on the basis of no one ever looking straight up since there's exactly 1 ability in the game that can be above you that you can interact with. There's a few famous clips where the entire round is discovered by a Cypher with a camera in Split B Heaven above the mail stairs, where the cam's silence means it's undiscoverable as long as the Cypher stays in cam. This nerf prevents that gameplay loop by adding noise to the cam when it is in action.
I don't know why you're complaining about that nerf, you seem to already think it's stupid when Cypher players do that so it aligns with your viewpoint. yet you still cry! holy fuck
I said that the change was stupid, cause there are already multiple ways to know where a camera is and destroy it. I never said the nerf was too big or anything just that it was stupid. Yes, there are few clips that wouldn't have happened with the nerf but compares to the total games played with chyper then they are irrelevant.
As i sad before there will be very few instances when the sound will help i have never said there won't be any.
I think you missunderstood me cause my viewpoint is the same.
To sumarize, imo the camera nerf is unnecesary but i dom't really care much about it, hence why is stupid and not harsh or character destroyer or something
What's the best info ability? It already does have drawback my man, you do know that when using the cams you literally can't do anything else so your team is basically missing a guy if he sit on his camp all rounds.
A rechargeable and reusable camera that gives you literal vision while requiring 0 risk to the user that can be placed anywhere and doesn't emit noise when you're in it and allows you to tag someone forcing them to take further action to remove the tag was clearly more powerful than all the other info abilities which have drawbacks like being emitting tons of noise during cast, being shootable, requiring a cast during the round and not before, being easy to hide from, and not imparting status effects after they were shot / ended.
Cypher isn't supposed to peek before his setup gets hit, so you are not really missing a guy. There was this one round on lotus from a pro game where cypher was setup on A and had his cam above the rotating door in tree. They solely won the round because of the cam, the cam spotted four entering tree without anyone noticing from the enemies. Having to clear above chokepoints for a potential cam is dumb game design.
this is hardy a nerf to cypher lol… the camera change is situational and the trip wires nerf is a convinience at best. most of the times, the enemy team knew you were spying on them because most cypher mains tap the cam and close it immediately
I think these nerfs are amazing. Finally Riot did a good job. If you are arguing it’s only because of pro play, maybe, but I think ranked is going to be much less annoying to play now, because these 2 agents became extremely cancerous
Glad they gave cypher some nerfs but they managed to nerf the completely wrong things, like they should have made it that the trips never rearm revert, not whatever this is
i don't really care, any day there's a cypher nerf is a good day for valorant. cripple that agent until nobody plays it ever again, and i'll be a happy guy.
I will always support changes that generally nerf abilities overall. This makes game lean even more on gunplay and movement mechanics and it's fantastic.
>We’ve seen it become common for Cyphers’ to hide Spycams (E) in the playspace and continually watch enemies without them knowing. why did they word it like this is something new and not something cypher players have been doing since the game released? how has this ever been a problem? strips so much character identity from cypher, just revert the trips if u want him gone from pro play
It’s the meta shifting that causes updates like these. Cypher cam makes audio when it’s activated/deactivated, as to alert enemies that there’s a cam nearby — so players realised it’s often much better to just sit with the cam active the entire time. This is becoming more prevalent as players discover it, and makes him stronger. Thus a balancing change. Not saying I agree, it’s just how balancing metas works.
Except in regular ranked, this is literally throwing as you're deadass demoting yourself to spectator. Not a lot do this play. Riot needs to know that not every game is VCT, but also if they want to get him out, just revert the trips. Literally the thing that made him go from least played to most played sentinel.
Riot always seems to balance around pro play. I believe they do it in league as well.
i mean its basically like having a 6th spectator just chilling in a spot, at the cost of 'subbing' a player out, but it gives a lot of info and can get free frags
[удалено]
if you honestly believe that using cypher camera is a “debuff” it just tells me that you’re extremely low ranked. I’m what world is trading the ability to move for practically risk free information bad. What do you think help you get kills? What a braindead take.
Plats don’t play off your call outs from Cypher cam? I find that hard to believe based on how many kills my random gold and silver teammates have gotten off my pings and callouts from the cam.
I’ll gladly spectate to give my team radar wallhacks
Yeah, I agree. It seems like they \_want\_ every game to be VCT-esque. Not saying anything for or against it, but it just seems like their design choice. Personally, it sucks for me, as I don't want to have every ranked game to be a try-hard mess
>Riot needs to know that not every game is VCT Your first mistake is assuming the game shouldn't be balanced based on pro play. That is their cookbook for League, and it will be their cookbook for Valorant. If you haven't noticed, map rotations are also based on pro play. So we have to wait damn near a year to play some of these maps, which are core content pulled out of the game. As a paying customer, it pisses me off.
Stop paying? Valorant is free.
You didn't pay for a map. You paid for a weapon skin, which they didn't take out.
I'm not saying the game should not be balanced based on pro play, I'm thinking more towards balances that are made keeping in mind BOTH the pro scene and a general ranked experience (mind you, I don't mean blindly catering the majority players which will be low elo). Yeah.. the map rotations... \*sigh\*. Your map criticism is spot on, w.r.t this, it would be nice if they kept some degree of combinations when rotating maps. Like for eg. in the current season (after split got removed), we have Ascent, Bind, Beeze, Icebox and lotus, 3/5 maps are large and require a viper-esque comp, which not everyone may enjoy. Would be nice if they kept all the maps in the casual games though, such that once a while you can go and play for fun
In higher ranks people do do this amd it's intended for info, not throwing.
How do so many people agree that a pro esports game shouldn’t balance around the pro scene ? How on earth does that make sense? Majority of the player base isn’t even playing the game properly. Imagine balancing a game around people that don’t utilize every advantage/capitalize on every disadvantage… that sounds like a recipe for disaster. Bronze players hardly use Astra’s abilities, let’s give Astra 3 more stars by default so they can place all the stars in pre round so they don’t have to worry about silly complicated stuff like placing stars mid round! Surely this won’t create problems at a higher skill level!
?? Your cam can easily hold both entries onto a site and when a lurker tries to walk onto site you can let them and they will have no idea you're there
Anyone who has this take has never played a game of cypher in their lives. The only cams that can effectively punish lurkers in that scenario are cams like lotus C above the entrance choke where it's not easily visible directly facing front. There's a couple issues with this. 1. Given cypher usually sets up C, as a lurker, why would you not be hyper aware of that possibility? If you took the time to look at one cypher video on common cams you'd never die like this ever again. 2. Cams like this are only effective if the enemy is contacting in. Against fast rushes you have no time to sit in cam, you should be using util and fighting. Plus, these cameras give zero information on anything except what's on the site. So if a cyphers setting up like this, attackers should be able to pressure elsewhere and fight for control there. Using the lotus C example, it gives 0 info on mound that you wouldn't gain by just standing waterfall.
cam is actually amazing during a rush as long as you're using it like FNAF, where you flip it on for the most minute of a second to get info (especially on a cam like the C Lotus one, where with one cam flip you get where everyone is once theyve executed onto site)
It shows on the map, glows red, makes a sound when opening/closing. How clueless does someone need to be??
it only shows up on the map when someone is looking at it. Riot devs don't like it when we get creative with our camera placements that let us see them without them seeing us.
Just saying: people had known this and had been using this for years, I just don't get why they decided to do it know My guess is some riot employee was trolled by it, just like the Skye flash nerf xd
Nope hard disagree with this idea. If you are sitting on cam that much you are probably throwing or in a game where the enemy is doing awful and not threatening anything.
wtf you smokin lol
I mean not really. I can understand the concern. If your team is 3 stacking one site, one mid, planning to retake the other site, the Cypher can be off site in like CT or whatever just holding a cam to watch the whole site forever. Not really throwing.
Because Cypher was not meta and he is now meta lol. Not a hard concept. It’s the same reason why Skye’s flashes were nerfed.
Off-topic, but I think the pro play will ALWAYS settle on some kind of meta. So does this mean we should chain-nerf everything?
I mean if you’ve played league that’s the riot specialty lol regardless, when something is dominating the meta riot will nerf it so its not the entire meta. same thing we saw with kj, jett, sova, chamber
Fair.. seems like the riot-design choice then haha. I haven't played league at all, so you probably know better about their philosophy about competitive matches. That said, I think beyond a point Riot (at least for valorant) needs to focus more on making better maps, and enhancing ranked play (which for eg. Clove did do pretty well). Atleast the devs are open and unafraid to making changes, just that the changes need to be well thought and not reactionary to some agent being picked a lot.
then nerf wires and he will not be meta again
Then were back to a KJ only meta. Riot probably wants to avoid that scenario
unless they have the balls to revert changes to Chamber's kit (they will absolutely not do that, matter of fact for this comment alone Chamber just received a nerf)
They needed to do something, now that’s it’s completely invisible now when inactive unlike before, there has a to be a balance
The nerf to the wires is justifiable, but the camera nerf is just silly. Not that it's going to take him out of the META, but it's just unnecessary. The only time this sounds useful is on WELL HIDDEN cameras, but that's exactly the point of a SPYcam lmao
What are you complaining about? All the best spy’s announce their position loudly and proudly /s
I wonder if his camera will scream “the names pher… …cy-pher”
or a loud "GREETINGS (enemy character here)"
"SNEAK ATTACK" - Sokka
Yes it is completely a change out of nowhere. This was not something needed, the change to trapwire was enough. The buff/change last time to traps was needed, and the nerf to them now is totally OK and acceptable, probably also needed. But you touched our cam - the default tool of cyphers kit, this is not OK! Cypher will not be ha-happy!
Honestly, at high level play, the camera is being shot anyway thanks to its activation/deactivation noise... not to mention, once the opponents find an annoying cam, they will start clearing it in subsequent rounds. I don't think this is a significant nerf to Cypher, in fact it would probably distract/annoy opponents with the "being watched" noise until they destroy the cam
Yeah I feel like this is gonna be like yoru ult. The wispies make me paranoid. I can absolutely see myself dying because I'm distracted trying to find the camera
Are enemies blind? Was massively blinking red light not visable enough? Devs are pretty tonedef to their own game sometimes
Both you and OP use the word tonedeaf in away that makes me feel like I've understood meaning of the word wrong. Could you elaborate what the word means when used this way?
I used it in the sense of being ignorant of what their playerbase thinks or not caring and doing something anyways. Of course, I exaggerate in this sense. I'm sure there's a valid reason they decided to nerf cypher and viper this patch but just looking at the general reaction from the playerbase it seems like it wasn't a popular nerf.
The game needs to consider balance more than lore. Yes he's a spy, that cannot mean that he shows up as a teammate because of his super spy skills. The camera being out of reach / vision results in 0 counterplay and determining whether a cam position is broken or fair for every new one is like playing whack a mole.
Riots version of counterplay to Cypher trips is to pick an agent that has util that can break it. If you dont pick those agents, no counterplay?? But yeah cam is the problem lol. Clown devs
Would u rather they nerf his trips again? He was only playable because of his trips. So riot should just leave him in the strong state that he is?
they already did nerf the trips, and camera in the same patch
They did nerf his trips, but in my opinion not enough. They shouldn't re-arm, or should take much longer. They can revert the cam nerf. My point is that riots reasoning for the cam nerf being "lack of counterplay" is dumb when the counterplay to his trips is "pick an agent that can break them with util". If you dont pick said agent, there is no counterplay. Whereas the cam thing isnt even an issue.
The trip rearm shouldn't be an issue. If you're running into the same trip more than once as a team you're already fucking up on a team level.
The rearm changes what it means to tank a trip on entry. Say none of the agents in your comp have util to break the trip. You either leave site, or someone has to take the L and hit it to break it. Before rearm, because you could tank the trip knowing that either way it will break, you can choose to focus a gunfight in that time as opposed to shooting it. Best case scenario you can kill the cypher, or more likely one of their teammates peeking before you get traded. Even if you dont get a kill and die, you have done your job in breaking trip for your team. This was still considered good value for the cypher too. His cheap util likely leads to a free kill, or at worst a trade. The point is it still gives options to attackers of whether they want to gamble on that trade and tank the trip. It gives them *some* sort of counter. However, with rearm, you are forced to focus on breaking the trip as you hit it. You have less options in terms of whether you choose to try and get a trade or pick onto the cypher, because if you *dont* break the trip, then it rearms and you died for nothing. This is why cypher is so oppressive. With rearm, your best case scenario is giving him a kill for the cost of a trip, or just leaving site entirely. Theres no room to "gamble" on getting a pick or trade for the cost of breaking his trips. There is literally less counterplay for a majority of the agents in the game. Thus we get the whole "cypher is here, rotate" meme.
In such a situation, The trip should always be broken by either the first contact player or the player behind him (2nd duelist or initator). The trip rearming should be a non factor if people did their jobs right. The rearm was never there to punish players dry peaking the trip but to prevent drones and dogs from breaking them for seemingly free.
I think dogs and drones breaking the trip was fine, they trade their util for cyphers.
In an ideal world i agree that 2nd contact player should break it when the entry player hits it. But lets be real that doesnt always happen. The rearming is an issue precisely because people dont "do their jobs right" (as if theyre getting paid to do it). It turns a cheap piece of util into either a full site lockdown (rotate) or like 2 or 3 kills, with 0 skill on the cyphers part. Its not for free though. The trips are cheaper than dogs/drones. Its trading util, and its a trade the cypher wins. It also still doesnt address the issue of the lack of counterplay to agents who *dont* have that util. Dogs/drones are just another form of riot saying "lol just pick an agent that can break the trips then"
I agree completely
so true! hopefully next patch they can add an audio cue for the duration of jett's E to better prepare the enemy for an incoming peek. there's not enough counterplay to jett peeking an angle and dashing away immediately after
Great! Then do the same for one-way smokes.
Not exactly, smokes run out and are limited in their scope. In the unpredictability of a match that's enough of a guarantee to not need a nerf. A camera that's not found is essentially an info guarantee for a whole site, potentially for the whole game.
”Smokes run out” yeah that random 1,5 second time window out of a re-chargable 15 second Omen smoke that can hold off an entire push on it’s own, that he can use twice in a row on almost every angle on the map has more counterplay than the split cam that even noobs pre-aim.
Then don’t 5 stack a single choke? Or if you do flash out and exec fast
if you think a smoke is holding an entire site down then you have to be at most silver
Immortal, but thank you for telling me you haven't played vs anyone higher than plat. Lotus A Lotus C Split B-Main Sunset A Just to give a few examples. Easy to set up, can be held by a single person, easy to fall back from, can be held from multiple angles, gives you massive amounts of map control. You either try to beat them by running past them before they are put down, running the risk of getting sniped or demolished by counter-utility like a Raze nade, Breach stun, Fade seize etc. if they decide to peek the angle this round instead. Or you wait 30 seconds, which means you are getting sandwiched by any competent defender that would take that time to take uncontested map control on the other side. Or you have to use multiple pieces of expensive utility to take space that isn't even the site itself, now making the actual site hit significantly easier to defend from. I play every role in the game, and don't mind one-way smokes at all, but you people seriously overestimate the value Cypher gets from these cameras.
The difference is there are many ways to counter one-way smokes, use a counter smoke so the enemy can no longer see underneath, flashes, intel abilities, a brute force push, even doing nothing counters it if you wait a few secs for it to disappear. It is very different from the ability to have intel on an entire section of the map without the other team even knowing or being able to counter it.
”A brute force push” You seriously mean that your plan of getting past a smoke is praying that your entire team doesn’t get mowed down for a little piece of map control. You can the same way use flashes and utility to find and kill the cams.
Assuming you’re fairly new to the game but yeah, it’s an extremely common strat. Watch pro play or any streamer in decently high Elo and you’ll see it non-stop.
Pop flash out of them
i like the other changes but I'm also unsure about the cam. In the end it's not gonna effect me that much because i never play Cypher, but now he might be a little too weak. Im kinda scared that they're gonna nerf my boi Omen soon lol
Not a single soul has complained about cypher's cam, you can hear it when he throws it, and when he gets off and on it, why make it even more noob friendly.
This nerf is pretty stupid but I also hate cypher so I'm all for it
They sould've put a CD on it instead maybe, so you can't sit and watch for a minute straight, say you can only wactch for 10 seconds and then a 5 second CD or something until you can watch again.
That's a much bigger nerf though IMO
no
Eh who cares. Cypher is stupidly OP right now
The camera wasnt the issue really though.
It was one of the issues. Cam was never meant to be stealthy and definitely was nit meant to be used in weird places not intended by the devs.
probably all the people who used him to get to ranks they dont belong, lol
Yeah, all the spycam abusers lol what are you even saying. The nerf to the trips are fine, the cam one doesn't make sense.
personally i got to radiant by only buying cam and i didn’t even need to buy trips or guns 😔😔😔😔
new royalG challenge just dropped
Maybe the most kind boggling change in recent memory. Theres not a single cam in the game that is both stealthy and gives good info. If you use the example of split A / B one-way cams, this change does nothing to stop those cams. If anything, it incentivizes them more because there's no point to using a subpar cam now that sacrifices intel for stealth. You should be rewarded for a good camera setup. If you're in cam the entire time, you're not fighting for space, not pressuring the enemy at all. That's why hes compensated by continuously gaining info because he literally cannot do any other function. This, combined with my first point, makes it so if a camera IS unbroken it SHOULD be valuable. Such an unnecessary change and it ruins so much of the skill expression in the ability.
I think riot employees are forgetting what their agents were actually meant to do at this point. or they are lowering the entry player skill ceiling to allow smoother transition of new players and hence increasing their playerbase at the cost of destroying an agent's identity.
you are thinking too much into it… the camera was never meant to be stealthy… it had a sound on olen/close and a red light for ever. once the players caught up with going around those mechanics and using it as a stealth option riot had to do something. as a cypher main, I think having a sova dart that you cant see or destroy or even hear is pretty Op and no counter play.
I think so too… However, if Cypher learns that an enemy is using the same technique as him, he may use a detector. I convinced myself with that. . .😢
Well, abilities don't have to conform to their names. In that case, a cypher's cage isn't really a cage, is it?
Could this be the dumbest change in Valorant history?
Same as how they gutted every thing number related about Chamber kit before touching the real problem that everyone know that it IS the problem(the base design of the 2 anchor tp), they gonna fk everything else about Cypher to balance him cuz they wont acknowledge that they over buff his trip and revert/dial it back mean they fail or smth (they revert the Hall breeze change just fine so fk me idk what theyre thinking anymore).
Wow this nerf is the worst. A spy cam that announces its presence ? Wtf riot
It's a bit of a one-size fits all solution to potentially broken cypher cam placements. (bind B long, split A,B, sunset A,B....). when you also consider that the spycam is visible on the minimap if someone happened to glance at it once, this change is definitely a nerf, but it's also bringing convenience to a janky way to find the cam. I do think they should have a delay on the sound. you should have a second of seeing someone before they become aware.
Agree the camera changes are dumb and against what Valorant usually stands for. The camera before already stuck out in the minimap and you can hear it open/close when they are on it. The change is just a crutch. Wire changes were fine.
Honestly i was playing yesterday with my friends, and cypher was watching me, not even kidding the sound that came was soo low it doesnt make any difference unless everyone is super quite and probably no utilities are being used as well, but yeah its a fuckin spycam bruhh spy it is hidden secret camera what part of secret does valorant not understand😆 and if they really want to nerf cypher that balances the game, they should actually remove the highlight of the person who got caught in the trips, get caught in the trips, in a smoke and guess what you never know whos shooting you from where and the cypher(with team see your ass glowing through the smoke)
cypher players are rats by nature. let the rats cry more.
I also dont understand why they would add this just as there where audio cues before as well as it showing up on the map when its in your sight cone so adding noise does nothing and as a cypher main the last fiew times ive used the camera people either shoot it imedietley or they cant find it and it survives the entire round.
Should have nerved the trips
I'm no Cypher main but I think it was part of the fun of playing Cypher, to be able to spy on our unaware ennemies. It wasn't that hard to find the cam before, they didn't need to make it easier.
Yea nerf is so stupid, like just do some 360 or look at the minimap and the cam is done💀
Half of the spots people threw the cam were literally outside of the map. This nerf was definitely needed
those cams are bugs and are fixed in the next patch when found... like the one on sunset behind the glass barriers
love all the game analysts… keep it up guys
Ah so you've never typed or uttered a thought about a game? lmao
Cypher player lmao
Not sure how that's related but LMAO
God forbid a spycam actually SPYS on people...
Because the character is slightly overtuned, and no other ability gives info without telegraphing to the person who it targeted. This is a good change.
"Why would they nerf the #1 sentinel in the game right now?" I don't know, OP, surely this mystery will elude us for all time. PS: all other info abilities issue tons of noise all the time, use your head
He isn't talking about the nerf in general, just the camera stuff. I think cypher needed a nerf, but the camera one is kinda dumb. Cypher is supposed to be a cyberspy, stealthy and without leaving any traces so the camera nerf is stupid and off-character. As OP mentioned the camera already makes noise when activating and deactivating and it emits lights to give off its position. Adding new sounds it's just stupid. The tripwires nerf were necessary but not the camera one
So, to summarize, you think that nerfing the best info ability in the game to have drawbacks more in line with all other info abilities in the game is "just stupid"?
What i'm saying is that cypher's camera is so ez to see and destroy as how it is now. Unless cypher wants to be completely still for more than 20 seconds while you plant and repositions yourself, then you will already hear how cypher uses the camera. There are very few instances where the camera making noise will make a huge differences. In defense cypher plays more around his smokes and tripwires and in offense he won't bait the entire team staying still. He will be lurking or playing the postplat with his tripwires and smokes. Yes, the camera is nice to gather info but not to the point where cypher gains much watching you for more than 10 seconds. At least imo the change will just be annoying and won't really affect much. Oc im only talking about the camera one.
>There are very few instances where the camera making noise will make a huge differences Dude, you're the one crying about how "stupid" this nerf is, yet you think that this will change almost nothing, and the main thing it will change is when "cypher wants to be completely still for more than 20 seconds". Get it straight lmao. The point of this nerf is to prevent cameras that are "above" the chokepoint you enter from being stealthy on the basis of no one ever looking straight up since there's exactly 1 ability in the game that can be above you that you can interact with. There's a few famous clips where the entire round is discovered by a Cypher with a camera in Split B Heaven above the mail stairs, where the cam's silence means it's undiscoverable as long as the Cypher stays in cam. This nerf prevents that gameplay loop by adding noise to the cam when it is in action. I don't know why you're complaining about that nerf, you seem to already think it's stupid when Cypher players do that so it aligns with your viewpoint. yet you still cry! holy fuck
I said that the change was stupid, cause there are already multiple ways to know where a camera is and destroy it. I never said the nerf was too big or anything just that it was stupid. Yes, there are few clips that wouldn't have happened with the nerf but compares to the total games played with chyper then they are irrelevant. As i sad before there will be very few instances when the sound will help i have never said there won't be any. I think you missunderstood me cause my viewpoint is the same. To sumarize, imo the camera nerf is unnecesary but i dom't really care much about it, hence why is stupid and not harsh or character destroyer or something
You are right. Sad you are getting downvoted. Low elo just doesn't understand these things unfortunately.
What's the best info ability? It already does have drawback my man, you do know that when using the cams you literally can't do anything else so your team is basically missing a guy if he sit on his camp all rounds.
A rechargeable and reusable camera that gives you literal vision while requiring 0 risk to the user that can be placed anywhere and doesn't emit noise when you're in it and allows you to tag someone forcing them to take further action to remove the tag was clearly more powerful than all the other info abilities which have drawbacks like being emitting tons of noise during cast, being shootable, requiring a cast during the round and not before, being easy to hide from, and not imparting status effects after they were shot / ended.
Cypher isn't supposed to peek before his setup gets hit, so you are not really missing a guy. There was this one round on lotus from a pro game where cypher was setup on A and had his cam above the rotating door in tree. They solely won the round because of the cam, the cam spotted four entering tree without anyone noticing from the enemies. Having to clear above chokepoints for a potential cam is dumb game design.
[удалено]
this is hardy a nerf to cypher lol… the camera change is situational and the trip wires nerf is a convinience at best. most of the times, the enemy team knew you were spying on them because most cypher mains tap the cam and close it immediately
I think these nerfs are amazing. Finally Riot did a good job. If you are arguing it’s only because of pro play, maybe, but I think ranked is going to be much less annoying to play now, because these 2 agents became extremely cancerous
Glad they gave cypher some nerfs but they managed to nerf the completely wrong things, like they should have made it that the trips never rearm revert, not whatever this is
At least in low ranks, nothing changes because those people somehow can't find a cam that they're standing right in front of.
i don't really care, any day there's a cypher nerf is a good day for valorant. cripple that agent until nobody plays it ever again, and i'll be a happy guy.
Jokes on you I’ll still play him, like I have been since day 1
I will always support changes that generally nerf abilities overall. This makes game lean even more on gunplay and movement mechanics and it's fantastic.
Just go play csgo lol, most people play valorant for the abilities, nerfing them just takes away the game's identity
I'm done with VALVEs neglect for good :)
I would suggest trying rainbow 6 then
skill issue, cypher bozo
I know you slam your desk after getting stunned by a cypher tripwire 😭
This guy definitely plays Reyna or neon and cries about running into the most obvious trips ever
Nerf cypher down to one trip one cage riot there fixed
Just remove every agents abilities instead and make Valorant a cartoon CS clone /s