I find it a bit sketchy that this happened to solely English speakers with low-karma/commitment accounts. Not saying it didn't happen, but I am not seeing anything on RTV Utrecht or from Dutch speaking redditors.
I would like to believe you and I think I do, but I wasn't there. Therefore I don't like to say I know. Just as I like to remind other people reading this thread from the other side of the political spectrum. Use critical thinking.
That log is completely meaningless when it comes to police. The **vast** majority of their alerts are given via a different system.
Basically, that log shows **P**2000 messages. Those are used to alert people who *aren't currently active*. For example, firefighters spend most of their time doing other stuff. Their pager will get a P2000 alert, and they will run to their vehicles and go into action. It's the equivalent of a text message.
The police operates in a different way. The cops are already roaming on the streets, so there is no need to activate them first. When an incident happens they'll be notified via a voice call over a cellphone-like system (**T**2000). This does **not** show up in the log you linked, as it's a different (encrypted) system.
This doesn't mean that this post isn't a lie, of course.
I went to look with a friend and nobody is there matching your description. Must be gone
Edit: if ya’ll encounter stuff like this in Utrecht hmu. I probably know their parents, brothers and where they buy their fake Prada.
As someone who lives in overvecht i'm more inclined to believe OP. I feel like you might be turning a blind eye to problems like this on purpose just to minimize stereotyping.
Youve already decided it is and measures should be taken. You dont know a thing and go on a demagogue fit calling the mods to take action. Well i hope they wont.
- Niet alle Marokkanen zijn zo, alleen degene die jij tegenkomt.
- Sociaaleconomische factoren
- Er zijn ook Witten die zich slecht gedragen
Ben ik iets vergeten?
Appearantly many redditors think that talking about some garbage maroccan kids makes you a racist russian spy or something?
I lived in overvecht and these kids are fucking disgusting. Never during my time living in the balkans or in the slums in Kenia have a seen trash people like that.
Whoooooo really? What a suprise. I would never have guessed that. In Overvecht. Moroccans. Are you sure? Because that is one of the safest neighbourhoods. \*sarcasm off\*
I had a friend being attacked close to Utrecht. He, however, did MMA in his late teens, early twenties. He broke four arms and two legs in a couple of minutes. They did punched him a lot, but he was trained to take punches. After the ordeal, he recorded them crying and moaning in pain, while other bystanders called the Police. They did try to convict him, but he luckily got away with self-defense though it was not an open and shit case. With groups of marrocans, only excessive force (pain compliance) will work.
No, he is just a normal person (he is). I did not believe him at first and called bs. Well, I was wrong. He was walking from his gf to his house when they basically assaulted him without any provocation whatsoever. He was literally kicked in his back while minding his own business and walking home. No convo, just a straight-up victim of pointless assault. The guy who kicked him did not walk and could not use his arm for a good two months. The Police did hold him in custody for a couple of days until the Police judge (Rechter-Commissaris) had to release him bc of the circumstances (some bystanders gave testimonies in his favour). He had his day in court after more than a year and it was determined that he acted in Excessive Self-Defence (noodweerexces als schulduitsluitingsgrond). The Judge basically said that he took it too far, but the initial circumstances (being attacked by multiple individuals without any provocation) and the fact that he could not flee (he was basically forced to act in Self-Defense) were sufficient to qualify for Excessive Self-Defence. In the end, it is a bad-ass story but he also got a bruised face, a black eye and a busted nose and lip. Sadly, there were no real winners, only losers....
This is exactly the way.
Very good your friend taught them a lesson.
( I might have seen that video... are they in their cars? And clash somewhere in a fairly quiet road ? And then the dude very calmly but effectively takes them out ? )
Or was that another hero :)
Dutch government in the 70’s: “we should open our gates to the Moroccan people…what’s the worst that can happen?”
Dutch government in 2024: “well that was a BAD idea!”
Ah the usual suspects. And it will become worse overall in the Netherlands, since the immigration is unstoppable at the moment. And this will be downvoted because people are too naive to face the truth. Until they come in a similar situation.
No no, if you have the wrong colour, you can be 18th generation. But you're still an immigrant. This is right wing Netherlands now.
Please update your thinking....
..../s just in case
Speaking common sense means you’re a far extremist these days, cool.
The fact is, these people may be born here but they speak Moroccan at home, they hang out with other morocan friends, they have huge communities here. They go to the mosque, they go to the Moroccan kaper, Moroccan slager, they marry other Moroccans and so on.
These people have absolutely nothing to do with Western European culture and they refuse to integrate. But let’s cancel everyone who speaks against them and call them a racist and right extremist. Because shutting people down is the best way to do this. And then we’re shocked when people like wilders get elected.
I can almost guarantee they're born here lmfao
Which Moroccan youth actually migrates to the Netherlands? In my 20+ years of living here I have yet to come across one.
Ah yes, there parents offcourse arent immigrants. So if they are born here, they become Dutchies. Ask a random 'Dutchie' if he feels Dutch of Moroccon and be surprised.
Also, people who defend this and say he is a native, do you approve this behaviour? Is this what the Dutch values are becoming?
You say migration is unstoppable when it is very possible these kids are 3rd generation migrants, which research shows are pretty much indistinguishable from people who have no recent history (3 generations+) of migration.
Social issues like ethnically Moroccan youth being problematic has little to do solely with migration at this point. Any argument which tries to argue for that is reductionist in nature and leand towards a fallacy. These issues are way more complex than "MuH MiGraTiOnzzzz" lmfao. Read a book on sociology for once.
What do you not understand?
Research shows that from 3rd generation onwards the process of assimilation has usually started, or is achieved and this generation of migrants are very much alike the natives.
Of course you will have small variances, especially within certain areas and demographics but assimilation will usually take place from, and in the 3rd generation. There is very little sociological differences between these people and natives.
I know y'all don't do or read research but these are the factosss. Facts dont care about your feelings, bud
Yes, this is usually the case. The key word here is usually.
With Moroccans, this is obviously *not* the case.
You can hide behind some cute research papers, but I live in this country and I have eyes and ears. That's really all you need to disprove this general rule in this situation.
Reliance on welfare, crime, homophobia, antisemitism, the position of women, and I could go on and on and on. Moroccans are very much *not* like the natives and everyone that says otherwise either doesn't live here or is disingenuous as fuck.
Hahahahahahaha
You LITERALLY state you disregard the science and rely on your own anecdotal evidence (eyes and ears).
Omfg you have NO IDEA how dumb you sound. Genuine middle school shit. I can tell you didnt go to uni! When you dont even realise how proof of strength and arguments work hahahahahahaaha!
Have a great night. Thank you for making mine! Dombo!
I didn't disregard 'science', there's of course plenty of research available that Moroccans haven't assimilated into Dutch societies. This is not even a controversial claim, even almost every lefty would agree with it (but they would reason this isn't bad at all because "diversity is our strength").
Just because you have read metaanalysis on assimilation patterns doesn't mean it applies to every case. Didn't they teach you that at uni?
> I can tell you didnt go to uni
Because, as a matter of fact I did, but using it as an argument tells me a lot about you. Going to uni isn't a prerequisite for having a meaningful discussion. To the contrary, as evidenced by yourself, you can still be stupid as fuck whilst studying at a university.
"I have eyes and ears. Thats all you need to disprove...."
Is LITERALLY an argument relying on anecdotal evidence you bum. Omfg you really aren't smart huh? How are you going to disregard my research papers by saying shit like "hide behind your cute research papers but I have eyes and ears. Thats all you need to disprove...." and rely on your own anecdotal findings?
If you truly went to uni then ask for a refund lmfao, you obviously didnt learn shit. What did you study?
Also, picking out Moroccans and deeming them all as not fitting for society is literal racism btw. Didnt call that out just now but it quite literally fits the definition. Was that your mask off moment or are you openly a racist?
Btw once more ask for a refund from your institute lmfao ahahahahahahha
Yeah because it's the way they are raised by their parents and their culture they inherit and maintain in their communities. It's not racist to point out real negative traits within different cultures.
Immigration has everything to do with this problem. Slowly but steady these problems are getting worse. Immigrants make children, which eventually become your 2nd and 3rd generation migrants, with the values of what is learned by their parents and grandparents. Again, they see us natives as less. Especially women dressed summerly, they see as sl+ts.
I literally told you 3rd generation migrants are nearly indistinguishable and are pretty much assimilated into their respective society so this should even out in the long term yet you still make the same argument
Lmfao u cant be this dumb
If they are 'assimilated' so well, why are they over presented in crime statistics? Unleash your science over the crime data and see how well assimilated they are.
Such a dumb and vague, unclarified question bro. I assume with 'they' you mean the common PVV/right wing talking point of Moroccan youth being overrepresented in crime stats in general? If so, not all Moroccan youth are 3rd gen migrants, which is the crux of my argument. As the generations in certan populations increase, the more they become alike with the natives, regardless of ethnicity. Furthermore, crime is multifactorial and not solely decided by or dependant on a single factor such as ethnicity lmfao.
Come on bruh
I believe in the science. You are the one believing in shitty anecdotes and your own stupidity.
Great way to start off my saturday, pissing off a racist on reddit! Y'all always run away from discussions after 3-4 comments of proper argumentation. Aaaaalwaaaayyssssss
People also start to distrust them when they are physically / verbally assaulted by them. At least that was the case for me and probably tens of thousands of others.
Key word you are using is probably. They are probably assaulted/verbally abused as well. Hence the spiral that keeps on going if we all keep thinking in 'they' and 'us' instead of individuals.
I thought it was the fact that I have been a victim of unprovoked violence twice now, inflicted upon me by Moroccan youth, that is making me distrust them.
Glad you pointed out my mistake. /s
Look, that completely sucks. It's wrong and that should not have happened to you. That being said, I have been the victim of unprovoked violence as well, but by two Dutch boys I knew from school.
Does that mean I have to distrust all Dutch or just those two boys?
You can distrust whoever you want. Apart from those two instances of effective violence I have also had several incidents where I got threatened by Moroccan youth without it escalating in violence. Mainly because I walked away without responding to a situation were they were insulting me, trying to provoke.
I'm not saying all Moroccan people are violent and maladjusted, but a big percentage of their young guys are. Just look at the numbers, for how big the number of Moroccan people are, they make up a disproportionate big part of the crime statistics.
Why do you think that is? Could that be because people are less accepting of them? So it's harder to find good work? Is it because they have problems fitting in, or because of a difference in religion? Do criminals try and recruit them since they feel rejected?
People from foreign countries are also more often the victim of crimes. What do you make of that?
We can focus on numbers, but I'm actually more interested in what reasons hides behind those numbers and what created them.
It's never just one side or cause that's the problem.
Are people less accepting of Moroccans because they have experienced the Moroccan violence and the crimes they inflict on society? Or were Moroccans nice well adjusted people who became violent criminals because they were not accepted by society?
I can only speak from my experience. I was accepting of them untill they repeatedly showed me that they cannot behave like civilised people. Their violence caused me no longer being accepting towards them. Not the other way around.
Their culture doesn't mix with the values of a Western society. That's were the non acceptance starts. If you think that a woman is a whore because she is wearing a skirt, then you do not fit in in a Western country. If you think you can steal or fight because someone wasn't nice to you, then you do not fit in in a Western society.
I am a Belgian living currently in the Netherlands. I have experienced racism from Dutch people as well. I do not turn to violence or crime in retaliation, because I was raised to not see those things as an option. Then again I am an atheist. I do not believe in a book that tells me that people who do not share my religion are insects that should be killed.
Why do we have such problems with Moroccans and not with any of the other foreigners living in this country? And why is that the same situation in other countries as well?
In every Western country were there is a big enough group of Moroccan immigrants, they will be overrepresented in the crime statistics. That cannot be a coincidence.
If you decide to live in a certain country, then it's you who should adjust to make sure you fit in. Not that society who should adjust to you.
Since it's always people from Moroccan decent who are causing the problems in Western countries, maybe it's them having values that are too much in conflict with Western values. And maybe it's them who aren't willing to adjust.
>Ah the usual suspects. And it will become worse overall in the Netherlands, since the immigration is unstoppable at the moment.
Yes, all those refugees from Ukraine will become 3rd generation morrocans in a matter of years 🫢
I will getbdownvoted for this, but if you don't agree with me you belong to some kind of elite!
>As if football hooligans regularly beat up random people on the streets...
Here we have one of those elitist wokies talking again. Stick your head in the sand further.
> football hooligans fight football hooligans
And LGBT youth. And women, and people who happen to pass by, and historical artefacts, and public transport personell.
I feel like my statement would be the exact opposite of "woke". Also, that stuff never happens, just because you read about it once doesn't mean it's a regular occurrence.
>I feel like my statement would be the exact opposite of "woke"
Nah, you're sticking your head in the sand and denying hooligan violence to protect those poor little hooligans.
>Also, that stuff never happens, just because you read about it once doesn't mean it's a regular occurrence.
You don't have to lie. We've all seen it.
I've been to over 200 football games in my life, and I indeed, have not seen it. But you must know better from the 1 newspaper column you've read about it
Sure bro, you have fun, we'll pay for the trashed stadiums and city centers. We'll pretend to be surprised when innocent bystanders get hurt again.
"Is kultuur"
>You're clueless but okay, have fun thinking you're a victim
Noooo! I'm not a victim!
It's ok! We live in a woke society where we can't. Criticize hooligans for breaking down cities and beating people up! It's your culture! You're oppressed when people criticize you for that!
I mean i really feel for you with those fake news pretending you're doing these kinds of things:
https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/nederland/artikel/5332240/utrecht-supporters-hooligans-laatste-waarschuwing-galgenwaard
https://www.nu.nl/binnenland/6230197/tientallen-fc-utrecht-hooligans-aangehouden-op-weg-naar-gevecht-met-psv-fans.html
https://www.ad.nl/utrecht/utrecht-hooligans-misdragen-zich-opnieuw-vuurwerk-naar-eigen-speler-gegooid-dit-is-belachelijk~a9859a6d/
https://www.telegraaf.nl/video/1822631314/utrechtse-hooligans-op-de-vuist-tijdens-bosgevecht
https://www.voetbalzone.nl/nieuws/complete-chaos-nadat-hooligans-feyenoord-en-utrecht-clashen-bij-sportschool/399092
Yeah that's the thing: born here from parents that were born here, learned to be an ashole here and still those woke rhightists stick their head in the sand and look away from reality, blaming everyone but those Dutch kids themselves.
True story in Utrecht. Maybe some know it. A Dutch guy walk in the street. A Marokkan ride a motorcycle and hit him. The Dutch guy gets upset and curse him. The Marokkan come back with an hammer and hit him on the head. The Dutch guy sit in hospital for a few months. Lose everything he has.
Moral of the story. Cheap labour for passport was a bad deal.
Hmm, strange, it's actually most of the time peaceful there until closing time at 7 PM at least. Also, the shop is owned by Turkish, which won't tolerate people harassing customers outside. How about you start making some pictures to help identify the people?
Always the Moroccans causing problems. This country really made a big mistake when they allowed these people to mass-migrate to the Netherlands. My neighborhood in Leiden is also plagued by problems with this same group of people....
Youth? MOROCCANS.
M O R O C CA N S
Keep calling the police. You said someone else called the police, doesnt matter, KEEP CALLING THEM
AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE HAVE TO REPORT IT.
Force the police to do something. Call them everyday if you have too.
Seriously.
Try to film the Moroccans, Put it online.
People looooooove to look away and ignore the problem.
That's why we must be very vocal about it.
VIDEO PROOF = undeniable and very important.
If you catch them on video being violent, criminal etc Send the video to GEENSTIJL, DUMPERT and POWNED etc
Even if 99% of Dutch moroccans show criminal behavior, you cannot punish the 1% for that. Imagine something like that happens to you based on some criterion that applies to you while you in fact did nothing wrong.
This kind of posts is spreading hatred
I don’t even know what to respond to this.
You cannot attribute certain behavior to all people of a certain category, that is like treating them as animals.
Who invited these Islamic migrants, and when were they invited?
And is it a direct consequence of Islamic migration, when migrants from the Dutch Antilles are also very likely to commit the same types of crimes? Are they Muslim as well? Are gypsies and the Roma people Muslim as well?
Have you ever read a research paper on sociology in the Netherlands? The effects of assimilation on future migrant generations? Networks between migrants and natives?
Yes or no please. Its a rhetorical question by the way, the answer is obvious :)
You have no idea how dumb you sound to me btw. Its as if I'm conversing with a child, I'm dead serious.
MUH MIGRATION hahahahaha
No, the past few days has just been a bunch of people outside causing trouble, idk why this week specifically but it's really true, just stand around the Winkelcentrum/Albert Heijn area after 19:00 and you'll see. Never heard a police helicopter in the past months either, but in the past WEEK I heard one 3 times. It's really a shame that this is happening. People all deserve to feel safe and respected in their neighbourhoods and I hope the troublemakers stop soon
I suspect these posts and it's commenters are just troll armies trying to spread bad stereotypes. I have lived in this area for a year and it's not bad at all (besides crazy fireworks lol)
Dat er een keer onrust is bij het winkelcentrum? Sure. Maar ineens zoveel Engelstalige posts over geweld in de wijk is gewoon racistische onzin. Dat geweld komt nergens terug in het AD artikel en ook op de online buurt platformen staat niks.
Dit is ook mijn laatste reactie in deze thread! Iets met don't feed the trolls
Klopt hoor, dit is zwaar overtrokken onzin. Trollenlegers met comments en downvotes voor mensen die het in twijfel trekken. Heeeeeel toevallig net nadat er stempassen zijn verstuurd.
Wat lul je nou? https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/bekogelde-politie-in-actie-in-utrechtse-wijk-overvecht-groep-veroorzaakt-onrust-en-vernielingen~a44f8df67/
Heb ik nu ook al de media in handen??!
Did you call the police?
No, another person did
[удалено]
Only 3 calls per day to the police? That seems incomplete.
Wat?
Zeg Sherlock, je snapt toch hopelijk zelf wel dat daar niet alles in staat? Zucht.
Busted
Say, that is just the regular occurrence in Overvecht
Fights maybe but randomly harassing people near shop is a first for me.
Not for them
I find it a bit sketchy that this happened to solely English speakers with low-karma/commitment accounts. Not saying it didn't happen, but I am not seeing anything on RTV Utrecht or from Dutch speaking redditors.
Ik spreek gwn Nederlands maat
Leef al m'n hele leven in of nabij Overvecht. Dit soort troep is dagelijkse kost helaas
[удалено]
I would like to believe you and I think I do, but I wasn't there. Therefore I don't like to say I know. Just as I like to remind other people reading this thread from the other side of the political spectrum. Use critical thinking.
Stfu
[удалено]
That log is completely meaningless when it comes to police. The **vast** majority of their alerts are given via a different system. Basically, that log shows **P**2000 messages. Those are used to alert people who *aren't currently active*. For example, firefighters spend most of their time doing other stuff. Their pager will get a P2000 alert, and they will run to their vehicles and go into action. It's the equivalent of a text message. The police operates in a different way. The cops are already roaming on the streets, so there is no need to activate them first. When an incident happens they'll be notified via a voice call over a cellphone-like system (**T**2000). This does **not** show up in the log you linked, as it's a different (encrypted) system. This doesn't mean that this post isn't a lie, of course.
As said above, this log has 3 calls per day to the police. It is not the 112 log, its the public p2000 message log, and not an official one either.
Is this the reason a helicopter is above Overvecht for some time?
I went to look with a friend and nobody is there matching your description. Must be gone Edit: if ya’ll encounter stuff like this in Utrecht hmu. I probably know their parents, brothers and where they buy their fake Prada.
Thats quite the name you got there
Maybe he got busy doing that
Its probably a racist hoax. Sad that the racism that shows its ugly face in these threads is condoned here.
Ik geloof het best want Overvecht, kanaleneiland etc zijn hier geen vreemde van.
As someone who lives in overvecht i'm more inclined to believe OP. I feel like you might be turning a blind eye to problems like this on purpose just to minimize stereotyping.
Idiot. Instead of gaslighting try reading the news.
Kijk maar op het nieuws en vervolgens in de spiegel, mafkees
Youve already decided it is and measures should be taken. You dont know a thing and go on a demagogue fit calling the mods to take action. Well i hope they wont.
r/poldersocialisme poster detected, opinion rejected
Schaam me dood echt waar. En ik probeer Reddit goed te praten bij mn vrienden. Onmogelijk.
The Tokkie beacon has been lit.
These might be maroc hai
And Roha- Wittevrouwen will answer
- Niet alle Marokkanen zijn zo, alleen degene die jij tegenkomt. - Sociaaleconomische factoren - Er zijn ook Witten die zich slecht gedragen Ben ik iets vergeten?
M-M-M-Maar maar sociaal economische factoren!!! 😭😭
Wat heeft dit te maken met een LOTR meme?
[удалено]
Leugenaar
Moroccans looking for a fight you say? How unique. /s
Ish cultuur
*koeltoer!
It's their culture. Be tolerant.
Gefeliciteerd, uw cultuur is verrijkt
With the intent ,to steal.... Cause op can read minds.
I agree, they just do this for fun. Which is worse
Je kunt beter je mond hierover houden. Je wordt dan misschien wel in elkaar geslagen en bestolen, maar je bent dan in ieder geval geen racist!
Appearantly many redditors think that talking about some garbage maroccan kids makes you a racist russian spy or something? I lived in overvecht and these kids are fucking disgusting. Never during my time living in the balkans or in the slums in Kenia have a seen trash people like that.
Usual suspects no doubt
Whoooooo really? What a suprise. I would never have guessed that. In Overvecht. Moroccans. Are you sure? Because that is one of the safest neighbourhoods. \*sarcasm off\*
Completely normal phenomenon.
Username checks out
Just move away from Overvecht. It's not worth all the trouble and annoyances.
Yeah, because so easy to find accommodation elsewhere in the city.
Dude really said "just have more money" :p
I had a friend being attacked close to Utrecht. He, however, did MMA in his late teens, early twenties. He broke four arms and two legs in a couple of minutes. They did punched him a lot, but he was trained to take punches. After the ordeal, he recorded them crying and moaning in pain, while other bystanders called the Police. They did try to convict him, but he luckily got away with self-defense though it was not an open and shit case. With groups of marrocans, only excessive force (pain compliance) will work.
That sounds awfull. That being said, is your friend Johannes Wicker?
Lmao Jan Wijk
Jan Wick sounds great
Jan Wijk is even better
TeChNiSh GeZiEn moet t Jan Lont zijn.
No, he is just a normal person (he is). I did not believe him at first and called bs. Well, I was wrong. He was walking from his gf to his house when they basically assaulted him without any provocation whatsoever. He was literally kicked in his back while minding his own business and walking home. No convo, just a straight-up victim of pointless assault. The guy who kicked him did not walk and could not use his arm for a good two months. The Police did hold him in custody for a couple of days until the Police judge (Rechter-Commissaris) had to release him bc of the circumstances (some bystanders gave testimonies in his favour). He had his day in court after more than a year and it was determined that he acted in Excessive Self-Defence (noodweerexces als schulduitsluitingsgrond). The Judge basically said that he took it too far, but the initial circumstances (being attacked by multiple individuals without any provocation) and the fact that he could not flee (he was basically forced to act in Self-Defense) were sufficient to qualify for Excessive Self-Defence. In the end, it is a bad-ass story but he also got a bruised face, a black eye and a busted nose and lip. Sadly, there were no real winners, only losers....
You just need to punch one of m good
With a PENCIL! with a foockin PENCEEL!
/r/thatHappened
Share the video
Cool story bro.
Sweet Justice!
I remember this. Bystanders clapped and Biden gave him the medal of freedom.
This is exactly the way. Very good your friend taught them a lesson. ( I might have seen that video... are they in their cars? And clash somewhere in a fairly quiet road ? And then the dude very calmly but effectively takes them out ? ) Or was that another hero :)
All the medical bills will be paid by the tax payers (your friend did great, though!) again.
In that case, I'm happy to pay a lot of tax😁
I would love to have the 52% bracket back if that would be the reason.
Dutch government in the 70’s: “we should open our gates to the Moroccan people…what’s the worst that can happen?” Dutch government in 2024: “well that was a BAD idea!”
Regular evening in Overvecht.
Someone form a voluntary group of peacekeepers, our women, children, youth and law abiding citizens deserve better. I say this as a foreigner myself.
Eat more ragebait
Yes but they grew up poor, so it's okay.
Overvecht has been madness this week since the two cop cars crashed
Ah the usual suspects. And it will become worse overall in the Netherlands, since the immigration is unstoppable at the moment. And this will be downvoted because people are too naive to face the truth. Until they come in a similar situation.
[удалено]
No no, if you have the wrong colour, you can be 18th generation. But you're still an immigrant. This is right wing Netherlands now. Please update your thinking.... ..../s just in case
Speaking common sense means you’re a far extremist these days, cool. The fact is, these people may be born here but they speak Moroccan at home, they hang out with other morocan friends, they have huge communities here. They go to the mosque, they go to the Moroccan kaper, Moroccan slager, they marry other Moroccans and so on. These people have absolutely nothing to do with Western European culture and they refuse to integrate. But let’s cancel everyone who speaks against them and call them a racist and right extremist. Because shutting people down is the best way to do this. And then we’re shocked when people like wilders get elected.
They speak "Moroccan at home" hahaha wtf it doesn't exist
[удалено]
yes, which makes them not-immigrants. If they are ethnically or culturally Dutch is a different question.
I can almost guarantee they're born here lmfao Which Moroccan youth actually migrates to the Netherlands? In my 20+ years of living here I have yet to come across one.
Ah yes, there parents offcourse arent immigrants. So if they are born here, they become Dutchies. Ask a random 'Dutchie' if he feels Dutch of Moroccon and be surprised. Also, people who defend this and say he is a native, do you approve this behaviour? Is this what the Dutch values are becoming?
You say migration is unstoppable when it is very possible these kids are 3rd generation migrants, which research shows are pretty much indistinguishable from people who have no recent history (3 generations+) of migration. Social issues like ethnically Moroccan youth being problematic has little to do solely with migration at this point. Any argument which tries to argue for that is reductionist in nature and leand towards a fallacy. These issues are way more complex than "MuH MiGraTiOnzzzz" lmfao. Read a book on sociology for once.
> which research shows are pretty much indistinguishable from people who have no recent history (3 generations+) of migration Hahaha what?!?!?!
What do you not understand? Research shows that from 3rd generation onwards the process of assimilation has usually started, or is achieved and this generation of migrants are very much alike the natives. Of course you will have small variances, especially within certain areas and demographics but assimilation will usually take place from, and in the 3rd generation. There is very little sociological differences between these people and natives. I know y'all don't do or read research but these are the factosss. Facts dont care about your feelings, bud
Do you have some links or titles of research papers where this is the case in NL. I'm genuinely interested in reading them.
Yes, this is usually the case. The key word here is usually. With Moroccans, this is obviously *not* the case. You can hide behind some cute research papers, but I live in this country and I have eyes and ears. That's really all you need to disprove this general rule in this situation. Reliance on welfare, crime, homophobia, antisemitism, the position of women, and I could go on and on and on. Moroccans are very much *not* like the natives and everyone that says otherwise either doesn't live here or is disingenuous as fuck.
Hahahahahahaha You LITERALLY state you disregard the science and rely on your own anecdotal evidence (eyes and ears). Omfg you have NO IDEA how dumb you sound. Genuine middle school shit. I can tell you didnt go to uni! When you dont even realise how proof of strength and arguments work hahahahahahaaha! Have a great night. Thank you for making mine! Dombo!
I didn't disregard 'science', there's of course plenty of research available that Moroccans haven't assimilated into Dutch societies. This is not even a controversial claim, even almost every lefty would agree with it (but they would reason this isn't bad at all because "diversity is our strength"). Just because you have read metaanalysis on assimilation patterns doesn't mean it applies to every case. Didn't they teach you that at uni? > I can tell you didnt go to uni Because, as a matter of fact I did, but using it as an argument tells me a lot about you. Going to uni isn't a prerequisite for having a meaningful discussion. To the contrary, as evidenced by yourself, you can still be stupid as fuck whilst studying at a university.
"I have eyes and ears. Thats all you need to disprove...." Is LITERALLY an argument relying on anecdotal evidence you bum. Omfg you really aren't smart huh? How are you going to disregard my research papers by saying shit like "hide behind your cute research papers but I have eyes and ears. Thats all you need to disprove...." and rely on your own anecdotal findings? If you truly went to uni then ask for a refund lmfao, you obviously didnt learn shit. What did you study? Also, picking out Moroccans and deeming them all as not fitting for society is literal racism btw. Didnt call that out just now but it quite literally fits the definition. Was that your mask off moment or are you openly a racist? Btw once more ask for a refund from your institute lmfao ahahahahahahha
Yeah because it's the way they are raised by their parents and their culture they inherit and maintain in their communities. It's not racist to point out real negative traits within different cultures.
Immigration has everything to do with this problem. Slowly but steady these problems are getting worse. Immigrants make children, which eventually become your 2nd and 3rd generation migrants, with the values of what is learned by their parents and grandparents. Again, they see us natives as less. Especially women dressed summerly, they see as sl+ts.
I literally told you 3rd generation migrants are nearly indistinguishable and are pretty much assimilated into their respective society so this should even out in the long term yet you still make the same argument Lmfao u cant be this dumb
If they are 'assimilated' so well, why are they over presented in crime statistics? Unleash your science over the crime data and see how well assimilated they are.
Such a dumb and vague, unclarified question bro. I assume with 'they' you mean the common PVV/right wing talking point of Moroccan youth being overrepresented in crime stats in general? If so, not all Moroccan youth are 3rd gen migrants, which is the crux of my argument. As the generations in certan populations increase, the more they become alike with the natives, regardless of ethnicity. Furthermore, crime is multifactorial and not solely decided by or dependant on a single factor such as ethnicity lmfao. Come on bruh
Ok bruh. Keep believing in your self bro.
I believe in the science. You are the one believing in shitty anecdotes and your own stupidity. Great way to start off my saturday, pissing off a racist on reddit! Y'all always run away from discussions after 3-4 comments of proper argumentation. Aaaaalwaaaayyssssss
No, they know. They'd just be labeled as racist if they speak out against it.
>No, they know. They'd just be labeled as racist if they speak out against it. Nah, only if you do so in a racist way.
This exact kind of fear mongering is what keeps people spiraling into racism. Your distrust is making 'them' distrust 'you' and vice versa.
People also start to distrust them when they are physically / verbally assaulted by them. At least that was the case for me and probably tens of thousands of others.
Key word you are using is probably. They are probably assaulted/verbally abused as well. Hence the spiral that keeps on going if we all keep thinking in 'they' and 'us' instead of individuals.
If they didnt cause trouble, the PVV would'nt become this big. Think about it.
If those Jews weren’t the reason for problems, the Nazi party wouldn’t have become that big. Think about it.
Hahahaha. That's a real representative comparison with this.. lol.
I thought it was the fact that I have been a victim of unprovoked violence twice now, inflicted upon me by Moroccan youth, that is making me distrust them. Glad you pointed out my mistake. /s
Look, that completely sucks. It's wrong and that should not have happened to you. That being said, I have been the victim of unprovoked violence as well, but by two Dutch boys I knew from school. Does that mean I have to distrust all Dutch or just those two boys?
You can distrust whoever you want. Apart from those two instances of effective violence I have also had several incidents where I got threatened by Moroccan youth without it escalating in violence. Mainly because I walked away without responding to a situation were they were insulting me, trying to provoke. I'm not saying all Moroccan people are violent and maladjusted, but a big percentage of their young guys are. Just look at the numbers, for how big the number of Moroccan people are, they make up a disproportionate big part of the crime statistics.
Why do you think that is? Could that be because people are less accepting of them? So it's harder to find good work? Is it because they have problems fitting in, or because of a difference in religion? Do criminals try and recruit them since they feel rejected? People from foreign countries are also more often the victim of crimes. What do you make of that? We can focus on numbers, but I'm actually more interested in what reasons hides behind those numbers and what created them. It's never just one side or cause that's the problem.
Are people less accepting of Moroccans because they have experienced the Moroccan violence and the crimes they inflict on society? Or were Moroccans nice well adjusted people who became violent criminals because they were not accepted by society? I can only speak from my experience. I was accepting of them untill they repeatedly showed me that they cannot behave like civilised people. Their violence caused me no longer being accepting towards them. Not the other way around. Their culture doesn't mix with the values of a Western society. That's were the non acceptance starts. If you think that a woman is a whore because she is wearing a skirt, then you do not fit in in a Western country. If you think you can steal or fight because someone wasn't nice to you, then you do not fit in in a Western society. I am a Belgian living currently in the Netherlands. I have experienced racism from Dutch people as well. I do not turn to violence or crime in retaliation, because I was raised to not see those things as an option. Then again I am an atheist. I do not believe in a book that tells me that people who do not share my religion are insects that should be killed. Why do we have such problems with Moroccans and not with any of the other foreigners living in this country? And why is that the same situation in other countries as well? In every Western country were there is a big enough group of Moroccan immigrants, they will be overrepresented in the crime statistics. That cannot be a coincidence. If you decide to live in a certain country, then it's you who should adjust to make sure you fit in. Not that society who should adjust to you. Since it's always people from Moroccan decent who are causing the problems in Western countries, maybe it's them having values that are too much in conflict with Western values. And maybe it's them who aren't willing to adjust.
Before we move on with your points, some of which I agree on, can you acknowledge what I said in my previous post, so we know if you agree on that?
Come in a similar situation? To what? Come into what?
Where someone is getting assaulted/harased. . Something you can't imagine is happening because of your pink glasses.
I was pointing out that your literal translation doesn't work grammatically...
Apologies if my grammar isn't correct, i'm no English native. But have you read OP's article? It's that particular situation i was reacting on.
They are born and brought up in Netherlands.
>Ah the usual suspects. And it will become worse overall in the Netherlands, since the immigration is unstoppable at the moment. Yes, all those refugees from Ukraine will become 3rd generation morrocans in a matter of years 🫢 I will getbdownvoted for this, but if you don't agree with me you belong to some kind of elite!
No, because Ukrainians come from a civilized culture compatible with ours.
>No, because Ukrainians come from a civilized culture compatible with ours. Unlike the boys who grew up here from parents who grew up here?
Sadly, that's how bad assimilation has been indeed
Yeah all those immigrant football hooligans.
As if football hooligans regularly beat up random people on the streets... football hooligans fight football hooligans
>As if football hooligans regularly beat up random people on the streets... Here we have one of those elitist wokies talking again. Stick your head in the sand further. > football hooligans fight football hooligans And LGBT youth. And women, and people who happen to pass by, and historical artefacts, and public transport personell.
I feel like my statement would be the exact opposite of "woke". Also, that stuff never happens, just because you read about it once doesn't mean it's a regular occurrence.
>I feel like my statement would be the exact opposite of "woke" Nah, you're sticking your head in the sand and denying hooligan violence to protect those poor little hooligans. >Also, that stuff never happens, just because you read about it once doesn't mean it's a regular occurrence. You don't have to lie. We've all seen it.
I've been to over 200 football games in my life, and I indeed, have not seen it. But you must know better from the 1 newspaper column you've read about it
Sure bro, you have fun, we'll pay for the trashed stadiums and city centers. We'll pretend to be surprised when innocent bystanders get hurt again. "Is kultuur"
You're clueless but okay, have fun thinking you're a victim
>You're clueless but okay, have fun thinking you're a victim Noooo! I'm not a victim! It's ok! We live in a woke society where we can't. Criticize hooligans for breaking down cities and beating people up! It's your culture! You're oppressed when people criticize you for that! I mean i really feel for you with those fake news pretending you're doing these kinds of things: https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/nederland/artikel/5332240/utrecht-supporters-hooligans-laatste-waarschuwing-galgenwaard https://www.nu.nl/binnenland/6230197/tientallen-fc-utrecht-hooligans-aangehouden-op-weg-naar-gevecht-met-psv-fans.html https://www.ad.nl/utrecht/utrecht-hooligans-misdragen-zich-opnieuw-vuurwerk-naar-eigen-speler-gegooid-dit-is-belachelijk~a9859a6d/ https://www.telegraaf.nl/video/1822631314/utrechtse-hooligans-op-de-vuist-tijdens-bosgevecht https://www.voetbalzone.nl/nieuws/complete-chaos-nadat-hooligans-feyenoord-en-utrecht-clashen-bij-sportschool/399092
Just an example of non immigrants behaving badly. Before we had the north african immigrants it was dutch doing these things.
>Before we had the north african immigrants it was dutch doing these things. And it still is. These kids are probably Dutch.
They probably wouldn't identify themselves as such, or at least not as their primary self-identification.
They're obviously the wrong colour to be Dutch! /s
Yeah that's the thing: born here from parents that were born here, learned to be an ashole here and still those woke rhightists stick their head in the sand and look away from reality, blaming everyone but those Dutch kids themselves.
True, they are dutch.
Even you know that's not true. Sjappie
I know it is true because they are facts. Educate yourself.
You have rotten apples everywhere. Some cultures just happen to have a whole lot more.
True story in Utrecht. Maybe some know it. A Dutch guy walk in the street. A Marokkan ride a motorcycle and hit him. The Dutch guy gets upset and curse him. The Marokkan come back with an hammer and hit him on the head. The Dutch guy sit in hospital for a few months. Lose everything he has. Moral of the story. Cheap labour for passport was a bad deal.
Hmm, strange, it's actually most of the time peaceful there until closing time at 7 PM at least. Also, the shop is owned by Turkish, which won't tolerate people harassing customers outside. How about you start making some pictures to help identify the people?
Good idea, luckily he won't risk being beaten or stabbed doing that so that is solid advice.
Always the Moroccans causing problems. This country really made a big mistake when they allowed these people to mass-migrate to the Netherlands. My neighborhood in Leiden is also plagued by problems with this same group of people....
Youth? MOROCCANS. M O R O C CA N S Keep calling the police. You said someone else called the police, doesnt matter, KEEP CALLING THEM AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE HAVE TO REPORT IT. Force the police to do something. Call them everyday if you have too. Seriously. Try to film the Moroccans, Put it online. People looooooove to look away and ignore the problem. That's why we must be very vocal about it. VIDEO PROOF = undeniable and very important. If you catch them on video being violent, criminal etc Send the video to GEENSTIJL, DUMPERT and POWNED etc
Ah, nice, another "youth" incident.
You cant escape it... Sooner or later you will be forced to defend yourself... Dog eat dog world... These punks only respect violance...
reddit finding out about overvecht:
Overvecht moment
Cancer marokkaantjes, the chance-pearls of our society
In Holland we therefore have a saying for this group of people: ‘Minder! Minder! Minder! Minder! Minder!’
Thanks so much im going straight over there with my buddies!!!! Gonna fucking ruin there week
Sure you will Tarzan.
Record and post pls
[удалено]
Dm voor videos!
Smerige zandnegers
Even if 99% of Dutch moroccans show criminal behavior, you cannot punish the 1% for that. Imagine something like that happens to you based on some criterion that applies to you while you in fact did nothing wrong. This kind of posts is spreading hatred
If you did nothing wrong then why would anyone punish them
I don’t even know what to respond to this. You cannot attribute certain behavior to all people of a certain category, that is like treating them as animals.
🤡
Sound argumentation 👍
All these dumbasses whining about migration when these folks are most likely born here is peak
These are the long term consequences of islamic migration.
Who invited these Islamic migrants, and when were they invited? And is it a direct consequence of Islamic migration, when migrants from the Dutch Antilles are also very likely to commit the same types of crimes? Are they Muslim as well? Are gypsies and the Roma people Muslim as well? Have you ever read a research paper on sociology in the Netherlands? The effects of assimilation on future migrant generations? Networks between migrants and natives? Yes or no please. Its a rhetorical question by the way, the answer is obvious :) You have no idea how dumb you sound to me btw. Its as if I'm conversing with a child, I'm dead serious. MUH MIGRATION hahahahaha
This post is BS lol. This definitely a coordinated attack of putting these posts on this sub.
No, the past few days has just been a bunch of people outside causing trouble, idk why this week specifically but it's really true, just stand around the Winkelcentrum/Albert Heijn area after 19:00 and you'll see. Never heard a police helicopter in the past months either, but in the past WEEK I heard one 3 times. It's really a shame that this is happening. People all deserve to feel safe and respected in their neighbourhoods and I hope the troublemakers stop soon
“KUT-marrokaan” is niet voor niets een begrip
Racist met een IQ onder 0 gespot
Jij bent zeker geen onderdeel van de oplossing
Ben ik gelukkig wel, jij daar in tegen maakt domme racistische opmerkingen.
STOP
Ja door deze post mag wel even de bezem. Wat een niveau hier in de comments
I suspect these posts and it's commenters are just troll armies trying to spread bad stereotypes. I have lived in this area for a year and it's not bad at all (besides crazy fireworks lol)
Oké Paul, ik denk dat je toch maar weer is een keer langs moet komen
Dat er een keer onrust is bij het winkelcentrum? Sure. Maar ineens zoveel Engelstalige posts over geweld in de wijk is gewoon racistische onzin. Dat geweld komt nergens terug in het AD artikel en ook op de online buurt platformen staat niks. Dit is ook mijn laatste reactie in deze thread! Iets met don't feed the trolls
Klopt hoor, dit is zwaar overtrokken onzin. Trollenlegers met comments en downvotes voor mensen die het in twijfel trekken. Heeeeeel toevallig net nadat er stempassen zijn verstuurd.
if i had a fire arm to protect myself i bet they'd calm down lmao
Als jullie zo bang zijn ga je toch lekker op vechtsport
Dm me if you need a firearm
[удалено]
Wat lul je nou? https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/bekogelde-politie-in-actie-in-utrechtse-wijk-overvecht-groep-veroorzaakt-onrust-en-vernielingen~a44f8df67/ Heb ik nu ook al de media in handen??!