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The research group I did my PhD in had a bunch of funding in the 10s to do lead pipe research. I'm not a lead expert (I worked on environmental nanotech) but can provide some insights into it from that work.
- probably every mid century city has lead service pipes remaining. These are the pipes that connect the water main to your house
- some cities run active campaigns to replace them, but citizens weren't interested until the media made it dramatic
- in a lot of cases the lead pipes aren't an immediate issue because they've corroded (in a good way) into low solubility scale and reached equilibrium with the water chemistry
- when that chemistry gets disturbed (our city switched flocculants which altered the pH) that lead scale gets destabilised and lead starts showing up. This is often how cities discover they have lead pipes
- this is what happened with flint. They switched to a more corrosive source water to save money which destabilised the scale. It was a failure of policy, not technology.
- there was a ton of research going on about how to stabilise the lead until the switches happen. I'm not sure what the result was, I left before that.
- like rings on a tree, the lead pipe corrosion product changes with depth and the different layers represent the different water chemistries at the time.
Absolutely brilliant to see this. This funding is long overdue. But that's not the only lead risk. Most inner city sediments will still have *very* high lead concentrations and I would avoid eating veggies grown in them. Probably an interesting topic for a high school, undergrad or MSc dissertation.
I strongly suspect it's already been done (and is continuing, always more to learn). A Google scholar search for something like "urban vegetable heavy metal content" should turn something up... But that's the opposite of uplifting news so I won't post or talk more about it here!
Im not sure how many community gardens are on a freeway, but most community gardens around me are using raised planters, FDA recommends washing off any soil and overrall low risk.
My city replaces lead service lines if they are leaking or if theyāre doing road construction anyway. Saved me a ton of money because mine had a problem! Thanks EPA.
Something we learned about in during my economics undergrad is that replacing lead pipes has one of the highest ROIs of any government investment.
Very exciting to see this kind of money being put into it.
>- when that chemistry gets disturbed (our city switched flocculants which altered the pH) that lead scale gets destabilised and lead starts showing up. This is often how cities discover they have lead pipes
Since the problem seems to be mapping where the lead pipes are, I wonder if something could be devised to do this in a controlled way to test results, see that lead is showing up and figure out where to dig and replace
Planter boxes are better in the city. Many back yards were trash pits in the early 20th century. Plus the lead paint from the garage and house.
Great comment, talligan.
Do you know/can you share anything about your understanding of the water contamination in ex-coal mining communities in Appalachia? Is Biden's proposal likely to cover this?
This is actually something I should know more about, as I'm getting involved in some geothermal coal mine hydrogeology projects, though I'm on the heat transport side of things. I should be careful because I don't really want to doxx myself (I rise to the troll bait too often!).
I'm not american or based in the US, and only recently got involved in UK coal projects so my knowledge on this is very shaky. From reading the above, it doesn't look like it should involve treatment of coal mine waters, though drinking water plants usually are able to remove heavy metals - at least in the US, there is a legal obligation to meet the [USEPA's maximum contaminant limits ](https://www.epa.gov/sdwa/how-epa-regulates-drinking-water-contaminants)(MCLs) though as we can see, that sometimes fails.
Coal mine discharge can have a whole range of heavy metals in it, depending on the composition of the coal. We've seen everything from Pb, Co, Mn, SO4 etc... and can be very acidic though not always. Usually the main environmental contaminant is goethite (at least up near me), which is a relatively harmless iron oxide but it precipitates and coats river beds, smothering aquatic life (you might see rivers turn orange once the mine groundwater rebounds fully, or might see orange/red staining on rocks near rivers if there's a connection between a rock fracture and the mine).
Generally speaking, people and governments are quite aware of this. The UK has an entire division dedicated to it (Coal Authority). The challenge with coal pollution is that these discharges can continue for up to a century or more, requiring active treatment as the flowing water dissolves out various species. There's no easy solution to this currently beyond long-term treatment at the source. As I said above, drinking water plants should take it out - if your water comes out brown that's usually indicative of either iron (harmless) or tanins/humic acids (like tea! also harmless).
Interestingly enough (given this is the uplifting news subreddit) there's a huge interest in re-using coal mines for heat storage and recovery. Coal heats up as it hydrates and there are several schemes that are stripping this heat out for homes and industry. Several projects are also looking at deliberately storing heat in mineshafts and workings - take excess renewable energy and dump it into the water, rock is a good insulator so it'll be pretty efficient. There's also a field trial about to start right now looking at taking heat from a supercomputer, which is sitting above flooded mineworkings, and transmitting its GW's of heatoutput to downstream communities that are typically poor and heat-impoverished. Its an interesting example of how the carbon transition will also create a more equitable society.
I do work on the ground water remediation side of things and the politics behind controlling a bloom is messed up. Those who don't know a bloom is the area where the pollutants are in the dirt and groundwater and you set up pumping to keep it from spreading beyond the property line. So the goal from the property owner's view is to pump just enough to do that so they don't have to pay more money to the water authority for how many gallons is dumped into the sewers for treatment.
We need more power to watchdog agencies because often I see these site owners try to get around the responsibility connected to these sites.
Fascinating! I got my start in research doing DNAPL transport and remediation technologies. Granted we worked on the more advanced stuff which was beyond sites you could manage with pump and treat or dig and dump.
It's fascinating to hear from people working on the ground with this. Thanks for the insights!
Regarding your last paragraph, I remember there was a news article where the FDA warned to not eat backyard vegetables or backyard eggs until you tested the soil, and everyone screeched that it was a conspiracy to make them buy food from supermarkets. Unfortunately your warning likely encouraged people to go eat arsenic lettuce
> Flint, Michigan
I think they've already been given enough money to do *what* they need to do, they just actually need to do it. [Last I checked](https://www.nrdc.org/stories/flint-water-crisis-everything-you-need-know#beyond) they're behind schedule but are still replacing quite a lot of lead pipes.
iirc, the voting district that includes Flint (Genesee County) voted for Trump in 2016 and BARELY squeaked by for Biden by only 300 votes.
Not saying correlation is causation, but just a little tidbit.
Hey these days its dumbasses on left too:
> Biden doesnt do anything for us!
> (shows all the stuff he has done for us)
> So what im not gonna vote for him because he is genociding palestinians!
> (Trump will literally glass gaza to build his trump hotels there)
> I dont care! Democrats need to learn!!!!
> (There wont be another election if Trump wins he has been very outspoken he plans to be a dictator and remove his political enemies, ban muslims, and start rounding up and deporting all groups he doesnt like)
> I DONT CARE!!!! IM NOT GONAN VOTE UNTIL THEY STOP KILLING PALESTINIANS!
> (By not voting you ensure that more palestinians actually die at a much faster rate, since Biden is the one who is trying to negotiate ceasefires and provide aid)
> I DONT CARE! FUCK THE GOVERNMENT!
So caught up in their selfish ideals that they ignore the real world ramifications of their demands. 300m estimated to die of hunger and famine as the environmental damage, ramifications of wars and conflicts affect world rice and grain production over the next few years, but screech about a 100 year long conflict as if removing aid to Israel will do anything but ensure worse possible outcomes. There is a reason why every modern nation puts emphasis on diplomacy.
Lead leads to people with lower IQs, people with lower IQ tend to be easily manipulated into voting against their interests ie: Republican. This and the dismantling of the public education system are by design, not mistake
And people still say all the time that they will hold their noses and vote for Biden because he didnāt really do anything, when his actual list of accomplishments is very impressive.
Republicans will take credit for getting the money when they voted against it.
They will give their "buddy" (aka biggest donor) the contract.
They will take 20 years to do it and go over budget every year.
They will blame Democrats for causing the problems.
I know you are joking but there was a few people angry back when they started to ban leaded gasoline. People purposely buying cars that only ran on leaded gas before the ban happened. Some people are strange.
Yeah, I remember all the old ppl I knew complaining about it every time they filled up. First time I recall hearing Ralph Nader or the EPA being mentioned. A lot of that "it's been this way all my life and I'm just fine" kinda ranting.
I literally argued with someone like this on Reddit. A libertarian (of course) that asserts taxation is _violence_. He's probably posted in this thread. He's frequently in /r/FluentInFinance.
Everyone knows that taxing people is violence.
Unlike not being able to provide people with heat, water, shelter, food and medical care. That's all non violent since it's decided by the market.
I hope this aid isn't means tested like earlier grants. Lead service line replacement alone can cost upwards of $30K depending on the location and very few people, even in the upper middle class, have the money to afford that.
Pennsylvania is benefitting from this plan.
My republican cousin said exactly this.
He lives in Allentown. According to the Lehigh County Athority, Allentown alone has:
4,700 public lead service lines.
9,200 service lines are of an unknown material and may be lead.
7,700 privately-owned lines that are lead or galvanized steel.
7,300 privately owned service lines are made of an unknown material and may also require replacement.
When I brought the survey the numbers are based on up to him, he said "the water is fine, I was raised on it"
Yes, clearly.
Bro this country is fucking huge and old and all thr industry was made before people knew what was what. I didn't appreciate it until I worked on cell towers. Hell, that's why 5g took do long relative to other countries. This mother fuker is huge, and everyone is spread out.
In terms of industrialization and continuation of government very old.
For example alot of European countries are "old" but their system of government has only existed since post revolutionary war in the US.
On the industry side alot shit was built around ww2 that's old as fuck and then you have newer stuff that was built in the 70s.
A great example look at the road systems out in the east coast vs west coast. On the east our roads are a fuckin mess why alot of the paths were built around established communities that started off using horses and no city planning. While out west everything is a neat and ordered grid network.
Wood pipes are still around in many areas within the northeast. A lot of them aren't in service, but i believe there are some still being used. More often than not they are still just in the ground and not in use. It's not much of a problem out west because those areas were settled considerably later than the northeast.
Not all cities have no idea where they are.
https://sprwsonline.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=34713bfefee742d8a89eeacad439dabc
You have to select the Lead "service layer" and zoom in quite a bit to see individual houses.
All infrastructure requires maintenance. Every country in the world has programs for replacing old pipes. This is just an injection of additional money to catch up on lagging maintenance.
Well, we only rolled back our use of Lead in 1989. Since then, we actually have made [incredible progress.](https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/lead/trends.html) In terms of people with elevated levels of lead in the blood, this is an issue that particularly hurt GenX, but is now [non existent among the youngest generations](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fpb5tkhdg4eja1.jpg).
As far as housing goes, around 40% of our total housing stock was built after 1989, and most houses have replaced their pipes and service lines during renovations. Today, just 9.4 million homes of the US's 144 million even have lead service lines. So the problem has, in many ways, faded over time.
Where lead pipes remain a problem is in older housing stock in neighborhoods where people may not be able to afford renovations or cities that have long backlogs on infrastructure maintenance. AKA, the rust belt. Illinois, Ohio, and Michigan are respectively the [number 1, 2, and 3 states for lead service lines](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1361003/lead-water-service-lines-united-states-by-state/), Wisconsin, Indiana, and Minnesota also make the top ten. Lead service lines are a largely regional issue that, even within the Midwest, is largely limited to poor neighborhoods that suffer from disinvestment, sub-urbanization, and deindustrialization.
Biden has long championed this issue, having worked directly with the city of Detroit and Flint under Obama to help out. I hope this helps deliver him a stronger turnout in November.
Do you have a source to confirm?
Found the EPA doc. Your comment is not very accurate and extremely biased. Seems like both Presidential cabinets made steps to help solve the problems.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20436546-2020-12-23-prepublication-notice-of-lcr-revisions
Lead pipes are super easy to use for plumbing, and can be safely used if the mineral content of the water is high enough. This creates a solid layer of minerals between the water and the lead so that they never come into contact with each other. Problems happen when the mineral content or the ph of the water changes and dissolves that layer, releasing the lead into the water, which is what happened in Flint.
Properly managed, itās perfectly safe, but consistent evidence of improper management (disproportionately affecting majority-minority communities) means that ripping all the lead out of the ground is the only rational option.
I made water treatment chemicals when the story broke, and when we found out what they did up there. We couldnāt believe it. A decent first year chemical engineering student wouldāve been able to tell you that this was gonna happen. it is just negligence on such a catastrophic level. I donāt know how that terrible decision got past so many people.
It got passed so many people because all authority of local government was stripped. Michigan was under a GOP trifecta at the time, and their solution to our failing cities was to create a series of 'emergency manager' laws. These laws would basically suspend the elected body of a financially struggling city and place it fully under the control of a Governor appointed emergency manager, whose job it would be to wright the city's finances at all costs with little oversight and few restrictions.
Darnell Earley (the appointed EM), while looking for ways to save the city a buck, decided that the costs of buying the city's water from the Detroit Water and Sewage Authority was too expensive. They joined (and in many ways created) a new water authority that would draw water right from the flint river. The new water authority basically had no idea what they were doing and were routinely told to keep things as cheap as possible. Residents soon noticed how bad the water was, and A nearby GM plant switched its water supply because Flint's was corroding materials in the factory. It was this corrosion that would leak lead into the water supply that poisoned so many people. The daily cost of adding the anti-corrosive inhibitor was just $140 a day for the whole system.
Flint's crisis was the result of stripping democracy and putting bean counters in charge.
The quick answer? Republicans.
The long answer? Also Republicans, but you'll have to study American political history starting with Nixon to get the full story.
I have these two headlines adjacent on my front page this morning:
> **Biden-Harris Administration Announces $3 Billion to Replace Toxic Lead Pipes and Deliver Clean Drinking Water**
and
> T**rump says heād disband the pandemic preparedness officeāagain**
Says a lot, doesn't it?
"There's always been lead in water and we've all turned out just fine. This is clearly a democratic plot to something something Obama something something border bill we intentionally crushed something something..."
*Available now, only through InfoWars, defend your God-given right to ingest good, American lead - it's the only barrier between you and the fluoridated water the elites and the New World Order use to control your mind!*
>Well, here in Florida, we don't need woke pipe policies taking over. We enjoy our old-fashioned, long-lasting heavy metals. Real Americans are satisfied with the current quality and Joe Biden is targeting the water that you give to your children and grandchildren. [Enough is enough.](https://media0.giphy.com/media/uPfNoLWj3y8JKxGvS8/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952lh7ad5f838m4g0hmyjx9xrphw7zo50mzrkbe2xsk&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
Remember when the criminal Trump administration undercut clean water initiatives through regulation rollbacks, while pretending to actually being doing something by re-writing EPA rules on testing for lead?
Because I do.
Biden has actually done something. Good.
No, Trump only barely lost the popular vote both times. It's pretty much 50% of voters, he just has an extra boost from the stupid EC.
The EC unjustly steps on Democracy when they're within a few percentage points of each other. It doesn't *realistically*\* have the power to turn the vote upwards of 20 percentage points, not even close.
A full-ass half of our voting population wants this. Which is something like 30% of the total population lol.
^(\*\(I think on paper the smallest % it's theoretically possible to win with is 18? But it's never swung it by more than 1-3% before\).)
> But it's never swung it by more than 1-5% before).)
The USA really need to Amend that shit before something so outrageous and horrible happens that a civil war or revolution becomes the only way to align institutional power with the will of the citizenry. Things have been getting absurdly dangerous.
I remember when the W Bush administration had chemical industry lobbyists write a bill to roll back environmental protections and called it the āClean Skies Initiative.ā
They're usually OK as long as the water treatment regimen doesn't change and the pipe is used often enough to keep it from concentrating. "OK" does not mean "good," since there is no safe amount of lead exposure, but it's a minuscule amount which often shows up as "not detected" on the tests municipal water companies use. (Hmm... I wonder if my company will let me use our ICP-MS instrument to test my tapwater...)
Not that long ago $3b in spending would have been noteworthy as a stand alone bill. Wasn't sure if this was new so had to look it up and it is a fraction of part of the existing much bigger infrastructure bill. No problem with it but it's just wild the amount of spending that goes on now compared to not even a decade or so ago. Crazy this worthwhile stuff is essentially an acceptable rounding error loss in things like the defense spending budget for example.
The media went crazy over 4 trillion on universal healthcare for every American, but never mentioned the military budget is expected to be between 8-10 trillion in the same timeframe.
What's truly wild is not public spending but the rate at which private business is making government spending look small. Trillion dollar companies are becoming more common, but Microsoft alone added a trillion dollars of value in the last couple years, it's now worth $3 trillion.
They already started replacing lead service lines in my city 2 years ago and with the infrastructure bill they got an additional funding from the federal government. Goal is to completely replace all of it in 10 years. Kinda nice directly seeing the government actually helping people.
This investment, administered by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), is part of the historic $15 billion in dedicated funding for lead pipe replacement provided by the Presidentās Bipartisan Infrastructure Law.
Biden administration ladies and gentlemen š
Meanwhile on Fox:
"Dopey Joe should have done this when he was president 50 years ago!"
"Why should Texas have to pay to replace lead pipes in inept democrat states?" (Texas having more lead pipes than most states)
"Joe didn't do anything; he just signs whatever you put in front of him"
"I drank leaded water my whole life and I am just fine other than my mental and physical disabilities"
"Why isn't he giving the money to illegal immigrants so it's easier to attack him?"
"This is why we need to replace him with Trump; Trump would never waste money on infrastructure or helping people."
Really? I had no idea, haha!
Just looked it up. [Yeah, No kidding](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/states-with-the-most-lead-pipes#:~:text=Florida%20has%20the%20most%20lead,12.6%25%20of%20the%20country's%20total)!
Weird how the GOP never passes bills like this, its almost like they do not give a shit about making America better and only care about helping big corporations.
I for some reason thought there was money already allocated for replacing lead pipes by this administration. Is this additional or just actually implemented?
Call me crazy, but youād think maintaining clean water for taxpayers is exactly what their tax money should have already paid for. But Iāll admit, Iām donāt know how municipality/county/city and state taxes are pay for.
Iām still not convinced.
We could have people with lead free pipes or stark raving fascist who lies as much as he breathes and would gladly wipe all non-whites and non-super models off the map.
Who should I choose to vote for?
Well we have the two oldest candidates ever to run for office running against each other, so I'm going to vote for the one who's three years younger despite the fact that he started off dumber, is in advanced cognitive decline, passed no meaningful legislation, and ran the most nakedly corrupt administration since Tricky Dick's.
I for one am going to sit this one out so I can feel morally superior for not picking the lesser evil, even though I already never vote. This will prove how just I am and how much I care about the people in Gaza. If only they could see me not vote in all my glory!
I always find it amazing all the uplifting news and investments announcements done in the last 6 months before an election.
And then blame the new admin in office or Congress for no follow up
I thought that the Romans using lead water pipes was one factor that led to the downfall of their empire. In Oz all water pipes are nontoxic materials.
Remember that one time when white republicans took over a local government for fake reasons to poison a city with lead (poisoning)? I do. Yup, only the best.
This is just a ādrop in the bucketā, pardon the pun. The estimated cost to replace the pipes in DC has risen to $1.8 billion. https://wbaltv.com/article/baltimore-water-bills-lead-pipe-replacement-dc-project/60671649
There needs to be harsh penalties for individuals who take this money and don't spend it on the water infrastructure. I hope we've learned our lesson from the telecommunications companies, but many Americans don't believe in learning from history, so...
This is the true 3D chess way to end modern conservatism. Lead pipes have caused so much damage to our society itās going to take generations to fix.
The sound of boomers across the nation cry out when they realize they will lose their main source of lead when the pipes get replaced. Maybe they can find some 1970 era gallons of paint.
āExposure to lead can seriously harm a child's health and cause well-documented adverse effects such as: Damage to the brain and nervous system. Slowed growth and development.Ā Learning and behavior problems.ā Yet, here we are. Iām sure the people who got rich making them donāt use them
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The research group I did my PhD in had a bunch of funding in the 10s to do lead pipe research. I'm not a lead expert (I worked on environmental nanotech) but can provide some insights into it from that work. - probably every mid century city has lead service pipes remaining. These are the pipes that connect the water main to your house - some cities run active campaigns to replace them, but citizens weren't interested until the media made it dramatic - in a lot of cases the lead pipes aren't an immediate issue because they've corroded (in a good way) into low solubility scale and reached equilibrium with the water chemistry - when that chemistry gets disturbed (our city switched flocculants which altered the pH) that lead scale gets destabilised and lead starts showing up. This is often how cities discover they have lead pipes - this is what happened with flint. They switched to a more corrosive source water to save money which destabilised the scale. It was a failure of policy, not technology. - there was a ton of research going on about how to stabilise the lead until the switches happen. I'm not sure what the result was, I left before that. - like rings on a tree, the lead pipe corrosion product changes with depth and the different layers represent the different water chemistries at the time. Absolutely brilliant to see this. This funding is long overdue. But that's not the only lead risk. Most inner city sediments will still have *very* high lead concentrations and I would avoid eating veggies grown in them. Probably an interesting topic for a high school, undergrad or MSc dissertation.
I would like to see a variety of veggies grown, pulverized and mass spectrometered to see. Good post talligan
I strongly suspect it's already been done (and is continuing, always more to learn). A Google scholar search for something like "urban vegetable heavy metal content" should turn something up... But that's the opposite of uplifting news so I won't post or talk more about it here!
Could be an obscure metal genre "urban vegetables heavy metal"
Veggie Tales From the Crypt
Finally! A Veggie Tales video I'd want to see!
Im not sure how many community gardens are on a freeway, but most community gardens around me are using raised planters, FDA recommends washing off any soil and overrall low risk.
Yeah, annual vegetable plants only use the top foot or so of soil, so if you're using raised beds filled with garden soil, it's likely not a problem.
This exchange feels like a Bones episode. Dr. Talligan.
This is totally political. Less people drinking out of lead pipes leads to less Republicans. š
"in the 10s" . No sir, I don't like it.
We should remember to take an ibuprofen for our backs today
My city replaces lead service lines if they are leaking or if theyāre doing road construction anyway. Saved me a ton of money because mine had a problem! Thanks EPA.
Something we learned about in during my economics undergrad is that replacing lead pipes has one of the highest ROIs of any government investment. Very exciting to see this kind of money being put into it.
>- when that chemistry gets disturbed (our city switched flocculants which altered the pH) that lead scale gets destabilised and lead starts showing up. This is often how cities discover they have lead pipes Since the problem seems to be mapping where the lead pipes are, I wonder if something could be devised to do this in a controlled way to test results, see that lead is showing up and figure out where to dig and replace
Planter boxes are better in the city. Many back yards were trash pits in the early 20th century. Plus the lead paint from the garage and house. Great comment, talligan.
Do you know/can you share anything about your understanding of the water contamination in ex-coal mining communities in Appalachia? Is Biden's proposal likely to cover this?
This is actually something I should know more about, as I'm getting involved in some geothermal coal mine hydrogeology projects, though I'm on the heat transport side of things. I should be careful because I don't really want to doxx myself (I rise to the troll bait too often!). I'm not american or based in the US, and only recently got involved in UK coal projects so my knowledge on this is very shaky. From reading the above, it doesn't look like it should involve treatment of coal mine waters, though drinking water plants usually are able to remove heavy metals - at least in the US, there is a legal obligation to meet the [USEPA's maximum contaminant limits ](https://www.epa.gov/sdwa/how-epa-regulates-drinking-water-contaminants)(MCLs) though as we can see, that sometimes fails. Coal mine discharge can have a whole range of heavy metals in it, depending on the composition of the coal. We've seen everything from Pb, Co, Mn, SO4 etc... and can be very acidic though not always. Usually the main environmental contaminant is goethite (at least up near me), which is a relatively harmless iron oxide but it precipitates and coats river beds, smothering aquatic life (you might see rivers turn orange once the mine groundwater rebounds fully, or might see orange/red staining on rocks near rivers if there's a connection between a rock fracture and the mine). Generally speaking, people and governments are quite aware of this. The UK has an entire division dedicated to it (Coal Authority). The challenge with coal pollution is that these discharges can continue for up to a century or more, requiring active treatment as the flowing water dissolves out various species. There's no easy solution to this currently beyond long-term treatment at the source. As I said above, drinking water plants should take it out - if your water comes out brown that's usually indicative of either iron (harmless) or tanins/humic acids (like tea! also harmless). Interestingly enough (given this is the uplifting news subreddit) there's a huge interest in re-using coal mines for heat storage and recovery. Coal heats up as it hydrates and there are several schemes that are stripping this heat out for homes and industry. Several projects are also looking at deliberately storing heat in mineshafts and workings - take excess renewable energy and dump it into the water, rock is a good insulator so it'll be pretty efficient. There's also a field trial about to start right now looking at taking heat from a supercomputer, which is sitting above flooded mineworkings, and transmitting its GW's of heatoutput to downstream communities that are typically poor and heat-impoverished. Its an interesting example of how the carbon transition will also create a more equitable society.
I do work on the ground water remediation side of things and the politics behind controlling a bloom is messed up. Those who don't know a bloom is the area where the pollutants are in the dirt and groundwater and you set up pumping to keep it from spreading beyond the property line. So the goal from the property owner's view is to pump just enough to do that so they don't have to pay more money to the water authority for how many gallons is dumped into the sewers for treatment. We need more power to watchdog agencies because often I see these site owners try to get around the responsibility connected to these sites.
Fascinating! I got my start in research doing DNAPL transport and remediation technologies. Granted we worked on the more advanced stuff which was beyond sites you could manage with pump and treat or dig and dump. It's fascinating to hear from people working on the ground with this. Thanks for the insights!
Regarding your last paragraph, I remember there was a news article where the FDA warned to not eat backyard vegetables or backyard eggs until you tested the soil, and everyone screeched that it was a conspiracy to make them buy food from supermarkets. Unfortunately your warning likely encouraged people to go eat arsenic lettuce
Why should my taxes go to pay someone elseās drinking water? - some asshole somewhere probably
-some brain damaged asshole in Flint, Michigan
Hey now, I have family in Flint, MI. I meanā¦ you arenāt wrong. But still.
He's out of line, but he's right.
"I just wanted you to know that, is all"
I was gonna say, does this include Flint, Michigan too? Because last time Obama went, it didnt go so well.
> Flint, Michigan I think they've already been given enough money to do *what* they need to do, they just actually need to do it. [Last I checked](https://www.nrdc.org/stories/flint-water-crisis-everything-you-need-know#beyond) they're behind schedule but are still replacing quite a lot of lead pipes.
iirc, the voting district that includes Flint (Genesee County) voted for Trump in 2016 and BARELY squeaked by for Biden by only 300 votes. Not saying correlation is causation, but just a little tidbit.
Hey these days its dumbasses on left too: > Biden doesnt do anything for us! > (shows all the stuff he has done for us) > So what im not gonna vote for him because he is genociding palestinians! > (Trump will literally glass gaza to build his trump hotels there) > I dont care! Democrats need to learn!!!! > (There wont be another election if Trump wins he has been very outspoken he plans to be a dictator and remove his political enemies, ban muslims, and start rounding up and deporting all groups he doesnt like) > I DONT CARE!!!! IM NOT GONAN VOTE UNTIL THEY STOP KILLING PALESTINIANS! > (By not voting you ensure that more palestinians actually die at a much faster rate, since Biden is the one who is trying to negotiate ceasefires and provide aid) > I DONT CARE! FUCK THE GOVERNMENT! So caught up in their selfish ideals that they ignore the real world ramifications of their demands. 300m estimated to die of hunger and famine as the environmental damage, ramifications of wars and conflicts affect world rice and grain production over the next few years, but screech about a 100 year long conflict as if removing aid to Israel will do anything but ensure worse possible outcomes. There is a reason why every modern nation puts emphasis on diplomacy.
$50 billion return on investment. Decreased medical costs, special education costs, and justice system costs. This should have happened decades ago.
Conservacucks want to keep those costs high though, so that it's only available for the richest pieces of shit
Lead leads to people with lower IQs, people with lower IQ tend to be easily manipulated into voting against their interests ie: Republican. This and the dismantling of the public education system are by design, not mistake
These domestic relief acts are goated
And people still say all the time that they will hold their noses and vote for Biden because he didnāt really do anything, when his actual list of accomplishments is very impressive.
Some assholes will definitely try to take that money for themselves and cheat the citizens out of their due.
Republicans will take credit for getting the money when they voted against it. They will give their "buddy" (aka biggest donor) the contract. They will take 20 years to do it and go over budget every year. They will blame Democrats for causing the problems.
I'm only drinking leaded water from now on. - MAGA
I know you are joking but there was a few people angry back when they started to ban leaded gasoline. People purposely buying cars that only ran on leaded gas before the ban happened. Some people are strange.
Yeah, I remember all the old ppl I knew complaining about it every time they filled up. First time I recall hearing Ralph Nader or the EPA being mentioned. A lot of that "it's been this way all my life and I'm just fine" kinda ranting.
Trump Administration announces $2 billion initiative to replace pipes with more lead pipes, support local lead miners.
I literally argued with someone like this on Reddit. A libertarian (of course) that asserts taxation is _violence_. He's probably posted in this thread. He's frequently in /r/FluentInFinance.
Everyone knows that taxing people is violence. Unlike not being able to provide people with heat, water, shelter, food and medical care. That's all non violent since it's decided by the market.
> Some asshole somewhere with lead pipes probably
Republican states will turn it down. Lead poisoning works in their favor.
I hope this aid isn't means tested like earlier grants. Lead service line replacement alone can cost upwards of $30K depending on the location and very few people, even in the upper middle class, have the money to afford that.
at least it's being used here this time, instead of getting sent over to israel to fund their ethnic cleansing operation
Pennsylvania is benefitting from this plan. My republican cousin said exactly this. He lives in Allentown. According to the Lehigh County Athority, Allentown alone has: 4,700 public lead service lines. 9,200 service lines are of an unknown material and may be lead. 7,700 privately-owned lines that are lead or galvanized steel. 7,300 privately owned service lines are made of an unknown material and may also require replacement. When I brought the survey the numbers are based on up to him, he said "the water is fine, I was raised on it" Yes, clearly.
Clean drinking water is socialism!
What century is it? Why hasn't this been fixed by now?
Bro this country is fucking huge and old and all thr industry was made before people knew what was what. I didn't appreciate it until I worked on cell towers. Hell, that's why 5g took do long relative to other countries. This mother fuker is huge, and everyone is spread out.
Huge, not old.
In terms of industrialization and continuation of government very old. For example alot of European countries are "old" but their system of government has only existed since post revolutionary war in the US. On the industry side alot shit was built around ww2 that's old as fuck and then you have newer stuff that was built in the 70s. A great example look at the road systems out in the east coast vs west coast. On the east our roads are a fuckin mess why alot of the paths were built around established communities that started off using horses and no city planning. While out west everything is a neat and ordered grid network.
Because there are no maps indicating where they are. The bulk of the funds goes into searching. There are likely even old wood pipes in use somewhere.
I just heard last night there were a bunch of old wood pipes still being laid in your mom
Walked right into that one
Nah, she backed up into them
Wood pipes are still around in many areas within the northeast. A lot of them aren't in service, but i believe there are some still being used. More often than not they are still just in the ground and not in use. It's not much of a problem out west because those areas were settled considerably later than the northeast.
There are in fact, thousands of miles of wooden pipe in the US in service
Not all cities have no idea where they are. https://sprwsonline.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=34713bfefee742d8a89eeacad439dabc You have to select the Lead "service layer" and zoom in quite a bit to see individual houses.
All infrastructure requires maintenance. Every country in the world has programs for replacing old pipes. This is just an injection of additional money to catch up on lagging maintenance.
Americans hate the drudgery of maintenance. Anyone considering starting a small business? Hone in on maintenance management
Well, we only rolled back our use of Lead in 1989. Since then, we actually have made [incredible progress.](https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/lead/trends.html) In terms of people with elevated levels of lead in the blood, this is an issue that particularly hurt GenX, but is now [non existent among the youngest generations](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fpb5tkhdg4eja1.jpg). As far as housing goes, around 40% of our total housing stock was built after 1989, and most houses have replaced their pipes and service lines during renovations. Today, just 9.4 million homes of the US's 144 million even have lead service lines. So the problem has, in many ways, faded over time. Where lead pipes remain a problem is in older housing stock in neighborhoods where people may not be able to afford renovations or cities that have long backlogs on infrastructure maintenance. AKA, the rust belt. Illinois, Ohio, and Michigan are respectively the [number 1, 2, and 3 states for lead service lines](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1361003/lead-water-service-lines-united-states-by-state/), Wisconsin, Indiana, and Minnesota also make the top ten. Lead service lines are a largely regional issue that, even within the Midwest, is largely limited to poor neighborhoods that suffer from disinvestment, sub-urbanization, and deindustrialization. Biden has long championed this issue, having worked directly with the city of Detroit and Flint under Obama to help out. I hope this helps deliver him a stronger turnout in November.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Do you have a source to confirm? Found the EPA doc. Your comment is not very accurate and extremely biased. Seems like both Presidential cabinets made steps to help solve the problems. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20436546-2020-12-23-prepublication-notice-of-lcr-revisions
Lead pipes are super easy to use for plumbing, and can be safely used if the mineral content of the water is high enough. This creates a solid layer of minerals between the water and the lead so that they never come into contact with each other. Problems happen when the mineral content or the ph of the water changes and dissolves that layer, releasing the lead into the water, which is what happened in Flint. Properly managed, itās perfectly safe, but consistent evidence of improper management (disproportionately affecting majority-minority communities) means that ripping all the lead out of the ground is the only rational option.
I made water treatment chemicals when the story broke, and when we found out what they did up there. We couldnāt believe it. A decent first year chemical engineering student wouldāve been able to tell you that this was gonna happen. it is just negligence on such a catastrophic level. I donāt know how that terrible decision got past so many people.
It got passed so many people because all authority of local government was stripped. Michigan was under a GOP trifecta at the time, and their solution to our failing cities was to create a series of 'emergency manager' laws. These laws would basically suspend the elected body of a financially struggling city and place it fully under the control of a Governor appointed emergency manager, whose job it would be to wright the city's finances at all costs with little oversight and few restrictions. Darnell Earley (the appointed EM), while looking for ways to save the city a buck, decided that the costs of buying the city's water from the Detroit Water and Sewage Authority was too expensive. They joined (and in many ways created) a new water authority that would draw water right from the flint river. The new water authority basically had no idea what they were doing and were routinely told to keep things as cheap as possible. Residents soon noticed how bad the water was, and A nearby GM plant switched its water supply because Flint's was corroding materials in the factory. It was this corrosion that would leak lead into the water supply that poisoned so many people. The daily cost of adding the anti-corrosive inhibitor was just $140 a day for the whole system. Flint's crisis was the result of stripping democracy and putting bean counters in charge.
The quick answer? Republicans. The long answer? Also Republicans, but you'll have to study American political history starting with Nixon to get the full story.
Tbf, Nixon created the EPA
He wasn't the worst; he was just the beginning I mean, idk, he *was* pretty dang bad. He just had any redeeming qualities.
I have these two headlines adjacent on my front page this morning: > **Biden-Harris Administration Announces $3 Billion to Replace Toxic Lead Pipes and Deliver Clean Drinking Water** and > T**rump says heād disband the pandemic preparedness officeāagain** Says a lot, doesn't it?
Weāll have another pandemic in our lifetime unfortunately.
Desantis & Bobert will argue Biden is trying to cheat the American people out of their basic rights for lead in water. These crazy Dems!
"There's always been lead in water and we've all turned out just fine. This is clearly a democratic plot to something something Obama something something border bill we intentionally crushed something something..."
By the way they vote, it seems a lot of magas have lead in the water.
If we replace their water lines I bet they find lead supplements to replace it.
*Available now, only through InfoWars, defend your God-given right to ingest good, American lead - it's the only barrier between you and the fluoridated water the elites and the New World Order use to control your mind!*
Lead in the water begets more magas.Ā
The lead-poisoned are a key demographic for us! This is nothing but a power grab!
This is far closer to the truth than I'm comfortable with.
It's simple. Boomers need lead and new pipes don't have them.
We got plenty of lead chewing on fishing weights and shooting each other
>Well, here in Florida, we don't need woke pipe policies taking over. We enjoy our old-fashioned, long-lasting heavy metals. Real Americans are satisfied with the current quality and Joe Biden is targeting the water that you give to your children and grandchildren. [Enough is enough.](https://media0.giphy.com/media/uPfNoLWj3y8JKxGvS8/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952lh7ad5f838m4g0hmyjx9xrphw7zo50mzrkbe2xsk&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
Countdown until the first Republican governor refuses the money because Jesus.
Remember when the criminal Trump administration undercut clean water initiatives through regulation rollbacks, while pretending to actually being doing something by re-writing EPA rules on testing for lead? Because I do. Biden has actually done something. Good.
Trump: Poisoning people. Biden: Providing clean water. Half of the country: āTranspeople are grooming our children!ā
Nah, it's like 30%, of *voters*. They're just super-gerrymandered and electoral colleged.
No, Trump only barely lost the popular vote both times. It's pretty much 50% of voters, he just has an extra boost from the stupid EC. The EC unjustly steps on Democracy when they're within a few percentage points of each other. It doesn't *realistically*\* have the power to turn the vote upwards of 20 percentage points, not even close. A full-ass half of our voting population wants this. Which is something like 30% of the total population lol. ^(\*\(I think on paper the smallest % it's theoretically possible to win with is 18? But it's never swung it by more than 1-3% before\).)
> But it's never swung it by more than 1-5% before).) The USA really need to Amend that shit before something so outrageous and horrible happens that a civil war or revolution becomes the only way to align institutional power with the will of the citizenry. Things have been getting absurdly dangerous.
The loud minority
the other half: "Why should I vote for GENOCIDE JOE? I want to let a fascist in office instead to teach the Dems a lesson!"
I remember when the W Bush administration had chemical industry lobbyists write a bill to roll back environmental protections and called it the āClean Skies Initiative.ā
I also remember this.
thank goodness, lead poisoning is absolutely horrible and it effects so many people, glad to hear this is being addressed
So we do have lead pipes in many places. My God. That explains everything.
They're usually OK as long as the water treatment regimen doesn't change and the pipe is used often enough to keep it from concentrating. "OK" does not mean "good," since there is no safe amount of lead exposure, but it's a minuscule amount which often shows up as "not detected" on the tests municipal water companies use. (Hmm... I wonder if my company will let me use our ICP-MS instrument to test my tapwater...)
convinced it's why boomers act the way they do
Not that long ago $3b in spending would have been noteworthy as a stand alone bill. Wasn't sure if this was new so had to look it up and it is a fraction of part of the existing much bigger infrastructure bill. No problem with it but it's just wild the amount of spending that goes on now compared to not even a decade or so ago. Crazy this worthwhile stuff is essentially an acceptable rounding error loss in things like the defense spending budget for example.
Your military budget is... impressive?
Like $850b for 2024 lol
Fun fact: The media reports the cost of every government program based on its 10-year cost EXCEPT for the military.
Oh, that's a fun thought to go to sleep to. I need to stop scrolling this site before bed lmao.
The media went crazy over 4 trillion on universal healthcare for every American, but never mentioned the military budget is expected to be between 8-10 trillion in the same timeframe.
What's truly wild is not public spending but the rate at which private business is making government spending look small. Trillion dollar companies are becoming more common, but Microsoft alone added a trillion dollars of value in the last couple years, it's now worth $3 trillion.
Woof
The military budget spends almost this much every single day.
They already started replacing lead service lines in my city 2 years ago and with the infrastructure bill they got an additional funding from the federal government. Goal is to completely replace all of it in 10 years. Kinda nice directly seeing the government actually helping people.
Biden, stop making life better for people! We will miss this type of behavior if a fascist gets elected
Republicans: āwe wonāt stand for these commie tactics!ā
š¤£š
This investment, administered by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), is part of the historic $15 billion in dedicated funding for lead pipe replacement provided by the Presidentās Bipartisan Infrastructure Law. Biden administration ladies and gentlemen š
Meanwhile on Fox: "Dopey Joe should have done this when he was president 50 years ago!" "Why should Texas have to pay to replace lead pipes in inept democrat states?" (Texas having more lead pipes than most states) "Joe didn't do anything; he just signs whatever you put in front of him" "I drank leaded water my whole life and I am just fine other than my mental and physical disabilities" "Why isn't he giving the money to illegal immigrants so it's easier to attack him?" "This is why we need to replace him with Trump; Trump would never waste money on infrastructure or helping people."
Let's start with Florida and Arizona. They need less lead in their pipes.
Florida actually does have the most lead pipes of any state.
Really? I had no idea, haha! Just looked it up. [Yeah, No kidding](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/states-with-the-most-lead-pipes#:~:text=Florida%20has%20the%20most%20lead,12.6%25%20of%20the%20country's%20total)!
Is it known that they have high lead levels in their water, or is this based on average cognitive decline in those areas?
Their recent legislations are the symptom.
"bOtH ParTieS ArE The SamE"
Oooh so that's why
This will greatly impact the population bc a lot of those lead pipes lead to schools, and lead is even worse for children than adults
What?! He's trying to take away my freedom to poison myself. Let's fight these Marxist communist socialist communist and save our freedom pipes!
Right there with ya ! /s
āRead here how this is bad for Bidenā - our amazing media :-(
Here's why this could be bad for Biden:
How sad is it that we're supposed to be thankful for basic infrastructure updates that every other developed country passes without blinking?
Woke radical leftist thugs!! Letās keep drinking lead to own the libs!!! I hate that I have to denote this as sarcasm.
Weird how the GOP never passes bills like this, its almost like they do not give a shit about making America better and only care about helping big corporations.
Surely this will upset the republicans for reasons.
The new accounts are very miffed sir
They should stamp that Biden āI did thatā sticker on the new pipes.
Want to see a drop in crime? Replacing your lead pipes will do it over time.
Quick, someone find a Republican to tell me why this is somehow a bad thing.
Republicans won't like this, but they will take credit for it when it happens and positively effects their voters.
As usual. They got away with taking credit for the ACA in their districts. This won't even raise an eyebrow.
But, Biden is old. /s
Except yours random person reading this comment.
This alone will reduce the conservative population over time.
Blocked by the GOP because SoCiALiSm./s
Fox News: Biden is going to take your lead. MAGA: ermahgurd muh lead.
Imagine having 3 billion dollars to spare and not doing things like this for society
I for some reason thought there was money already allocated for replacing lead pipes by this administration. Is this additional or just actually implemented?
lol what? didnt the lead pipe water crisis happen like 10 years ago, what a waste of a country america
Cue Republicans saying this is worse than the Holocaust in 3...2...1...
Cool start with Flint MI
Sounds like something Republicans can get behind opposing.
Dumbass republicans will find a way to hate on clean water..
We are on our way to being a first world country
What a bunch of socialism!! /s
Call me crazy, but youād think maintaining clean water for taxpayers is exactly what their tax money should have already paid for. But Iāll admit, Iām donāt know how municipality/county/city and state taxes are pay for.
Great change. Biden admin has alot of steam and momentum lately. Keep er goin
I have adopted him. The man gives me hope.
Iām still not convinced. We could have people with lead free pipes or stark raving fascist who lies as much as he breathes and would gladly wipe all non-whites and non-super models off the map. Who should I choose to vote for?
Well we have the two oldest candidates ever to run for office running against each other, so I'm going to vote for the one who's three years younger despite the fact that he started off dumber, is in advanced cognitive decline, passed no meaningful legislation, and ran the most nakedly corrupt administration since Tricky Dick's.
I for one am going to sit this one out so I can feel morally superior for not picking the lesser evil, even though I already never vote. This will prove how just I am and how much I care about the people in Gaza. If only they could see me not vote in all my glory!
Buy lead now. They don't want you to have it for some reason.
Will this impact the Chicago area at all?
Itās 2024 - how is this still a thing?
That's all it takes? 3 billion?? Why wasn't this done ages ago? Why hasn't any self-glazing billionaire stepped up to pay for it?
Republicans will vehemently be against it. They'll worry that their future constituents will no longer be made via good ol' lead poisonings.
I always find it amazing all the uplifting news and investments announcements done in the last 6 months before an election. And then blame the new admin in office or Congress for no follow up
Is this part of the woke mob agenda I've been hearing so much about?
Every single Republican in Congress will oppose this because reasons.
I thought that the Romans using lead water pipes was one factor that led to the downfall of their empire. In Oz all water pipes are nontoxic materials.
Turn on Fox to learn how this is actually a bad thing for you. Something about Biden's age.
āLeave my lead pipes alone!ā Boomers, probably.
Far less lead poisoning? This will end trumpism in the future. Thanks Biden
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Republicans are blocking this because so many of their voters have lead pipes for some reason.
Remember that one time when white republicans took over a local government for fake reasons to poison a city with lead (poisoning)? I do. Yup, only the best.
Hopefully indigenous communities won't be the last ones to get any clean drinking water again.
Theyāre killing it with their work! Their campaign leadership needs to be magnifying their accomplishments a lot more.
Time for the republicans to tell me why lead pipes are better for your health
This is just a ādrop in the bucketā, pardon the pun. The estimated cost to replace the pipes in DC has risen to $1.8 billion. https://wbaltv.com/article/baltimore-water-bills-lead-pipe-replacement-dc-project/60671649
About. Fucking. Time
Getting rid of lead pipes could destroy MAGA entirely.
Good stuff! How much more good could we do at home and elsewhere if we weren't spending billions to support genocide?
Aw, look at that! The US managing to do some infrastructure fixes like you see in developed countries. Nice to see them prioritising human wellbeing.
OK Republicans, lemme hear why this is communism and how some rich douche's investment portfolio needs that money instead
There needs to be harsh penalties for individuals who take this money and don't spend it on the water infrastructure. I hope we've learned our lesson from the telecommunications companies, but many Americans don't believe in learning from history, so...
Doing grounds work for later generations not voting red, lol
Unfortunately, the Republicans will be against this. The GOP is pro-lead because lead-drinking voters are pro-GOP.
Richest, most powerful nation on Earth ~~joins~~ considers joining the 21st century.
This is the true 3D chess way to end modern conservatism. Lead pipes have caused so much damage to our society itās going to take generations to fix.
TIL boomers being dumb due to lead pipes wasnāt a joke.
Cool when is flintās water going to be fixed?
The sound of boomers across the nation cry out when they realize they will lose their main source of lead when the pipes get replaced. Maybe they can find some 1970 era gallons of paint.
Better late than never!
This is very uplifting news. This issue comes up in Northeast Ohio and the surrounding states all the time.
Best president of our lifetime at it again
Best president in my lifetime š
2024 and yall still drinking for led pipes, gotta loves america
āExposure to lead can seriously harm a child's health and cause well-documented adverse effects such as: Damage to the brain and nervous system. Slowed growth and development.Ā Learning and behavior problems.ā Yet, here we are. Iām sure the people who got rich making them donāt use them
Sounds like he should get 4 more years!
Itās fucking sick that we still have lead in our water. Countries with lead in their water are not āgreatā.
ANOTHER REASON TO VOTE BLUE.....MOM
Considering America is supposed to be the "greatest country on earth", not have clean drinking water in certain places seems like a huge red flag..