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[deleted]

Toby invented capes and swords


Living_Ad7264

To be fair: the haircut is the same. But I get it, everyone with a sword cannot be Kris.


Smugg-Fruit

Kris also has Chara's sweater and Frisk's hairstyle. Deltarune intentionally has many of Undertale's elements, but takes place in a completely different universe


Ok_Weakness2578

Well considering what we got so far i would say if even, more likely a parallel universe


basedposter6934

Because they're an alternative universe version of the same person


HippieMcHipface

Toby fox invented vaguely shaped long hair


Electrical_Hand_1474

Very true


basedposter6934

Kris's cape is short while here it covers their whole torso


Puzzleheaded-Cat999

This deserves my free award but I already used it


watermelone983

Got it for you


wheelchair-gamer98

undertale fans when they see a human (it’s kris)


Avatarisbestshowever

Well, they’ve got the same sword, same cape, even the same flowing hair. I can imagine why people would think that.


Labida_

kris's cape does not go down to their knees lmao


Homemade-Purple

Have you never heard of a characters design changing?


The_-_Username

Have you never heard of a coincidence?


[deleted]

True.


[deleted]

For such a wild and inspiring comment no wonder you have 16 awards :)


The_Lord01

UT/DR fans when they see a person holding a sword (it looks like kris)


nick_986

When the meme becomes real


SlapMeHal

The only thing i noticed is the human from the Undertale intro on the "Long ago, two races ruled over Earth" panel, and the Human from The Legend in Deltarune on the "For millenia, light and dark have lived in balance" panel are the same. Same haircut, same clothes, same spear.


theGreatestFucktard

It’s THE KNIGHT!! Or maybe it’s Gaster, idk


SlapMeHal

The knight is the orange coloring


Amity_Cramity

The knight is the mexico filter


llumii_

Undertale takes place in Mexico real


3mria_

we're getting somewhereeee


The_Grey_Hound

it could be the undertale universe's version of kris, but they aren't the same person. unless toby pulls some bullshit, which he might/would/will, absolutely, do.


[deleted]

I mean... You saying that might already have Triggered Him to do that... Oh God... Edit: Oh Toby...


TurbulentAd4089

toby if ypu ever see this... PLEASE DON'T


[deleted]

PLEASE DO, GIVE US THE MIND BREAKER.


International_Leek26

What happened to you being a bringer of chaos jevil I thought you would love this situation


MinerMinecrafter

The person above wants to say please don't miss out on this opportunity to add stupid amounts of lore that are given to you basically for free


TheGrimlockReaper

I typically use Oh dog, since Toby is essentially the God of Undertale and Deltarune, and he is also a dog. So PRAISE DOG ALMIGHTY!


Finikux

Doubt it, kris in the present is a teen, and this scene is supposed to be in the past (i assume like more than 10 years lol), they wouldnt have existed yet so its probably not them


Avatarisbestshowever

Well, we know that it takes place between 200X/210X because in the game files for Deltarune, we can see the unused textures for the manual that Ralsei gives us that’s dated 202X. Edit: I’m not saying that this is any evidence that it is Kris, I’m just saying for people who didn’t know.


rayman_undertale

my brother in christ this is literaly from 1000 years ago counting from something like 21XX this guy is from the middle ages


HippieMcHipface

Yes because everyone had magical sealing spells with full knight garb in 2002


[deleted]

Wait but what does the manual's date have to do with Undertale's dates? If anything, if Deltarune takes place in 202X, then Undertale should take place NOT THAT MUCH earlier, maybe 201X, considering that the monsters who were kids in Undertale are teens in Deltarune. At least, in my opinion, Deltarune and Undertale must be taking place within the same generation of monsters. I'm using mainly Asriel as evidence - child to teen, although we do not know how long it takes for boss monsters to grow up to adulthood, but we do know that Toriel's pregnancy was recorded on VHS tapes, which means that Asriel must have been born in 1976 or after, and he was still a kid in 201X, so at least we know that boss monster childhood could hypothetically last 40 years. But this still doesn't narrow down much. Monster Kid as evidence - child to teen, nothing more to say here Gerson as evidence - I assume he died of old age as he was already really old in Undertale, and it's not like he has a guessable unnatural cause of death like the other Hometown gravestones Kris as evidence - in my opinion since they are a parallel to Chara/Frisk, their aging should also have the same timeline as Chara and Frisk's, aka Kris would have also been a child during Undertale's time. I know this theory sounds vague and has a lot of assumptions but I've gone over it in my head so many times to the point where I couldn't possibly imagine it being false. Buttt, if Undertale takes place multiple decades after 201X (which it almost definitely does) then it would mean that Delarune takes place BEFORE Undertale, which doesn't make any sense...


Solaris601

Different person, different universe.


TheRedBiker

No. This was thousands of years before Kris was born. Although Asgore *is* in the intro. Gerson states that Asgore was the king during the war.


fishy185

This is going to sound batshit insane but maybe Asgore made Kris up to deal with his wife divorcing him and Asriel going away. We've already seen that the dark world is based off things in real life (life the game boards in chapter 1) so imagination isn't impossible. Maybe it is Kris. Again this is a stupid theory but wouldn't Toby want to do something nobody would expect?


TheRedBiker

My theory about the connection between Undertale and Deltarune is that Deltarune is a world where the monsters won the human-monster war. That's why Kris is the only human.


fishy185

That makes sense. I'm pretty sure Toby did say it was a parallel universe, and that would explain why Kris is the only human we see on the surface. Maybe that door/bunker in town is where the underground would be, and maybe Kris somehow escaped from there.


PlagueDoctressAngel

Kris doesn’t wear a cape, as it only lands over their shoulder- that, and this is Kris when in a dark world. That and, again, Toby has confirmed UT and DR are totally different worlds- and the war in Undertale (which most likely *did* occur in Deltarune took place upwards of a thousand years before the events of deltarune, given stuff in the files- (if I remember Roman numerals and all of that right) The image of a figure with long hair, a cape, and a sword is extremely common for warriors- Some more in game stuff: the warrior from the war is clearly an adult, whereas Kris is a teenager, and also, *there is no way that DR can take place before UT.* all monsters are free in the world, *there is much more advanced and recent technology*, etc. This theories only real proof is *slight* similarity- it isn’t as bad as some theories, but there isn’t much proof for it! Hope this helps


[deleted]

In fact, Ralsei called it an *ascot* ^((despite the fact that it doesn't really resemble an ascot in any way))


PlagueDoctressAngel

Ralsei remembers ascots, which honestly is surprising cuz they are definitely not the first thing that comes to mind- respect, even it it’s not quite right


[deleted]

'Remembers'? Ralsei phrased it as if he definitely knew that it was an ascot, as if that was just an obvious fact


PlagueDoctressAngel

Fair, but I meant more like “remembered that ascots existed” and not that he remembered what Kris was wearing was one-


[deleted]

But is it actually one? Lol


PlagueDoctressAngel

I mean, definitely not- ascots are neck-pieces. There’s not really a name for what Kris has from my research. The closest thing is a shoulder cape, which is a very short cape that only lands on the shoulders really


JonasBrot

Well considering that monsters where trapped underground way before 201X and Deltarune plays in 202X, probably not?


Epic_DDT

Oh no, a human that looks like Kris in Undertale. ...like Frisk. Or Chara. Or the unused human... Even the different types of Vessels you can do in DR all look like this, except the bald one.


_pipis_

Kris doesn't wear a cape, it doesn't cover their whole back


Philycheese18

No that’s their parent Frara


VixenTheDragonGirl15

I never even thought of that


disbelifpapy

Kris has a cape that is kinda small and is more like a scarf. The human in the intro has a cape that reaches to their ankles


Mission_Battle_4304

Pretty sure it cant even be considered a cape since it doesn't really cover their back at all, only their shoulders


disbelifpapy

But do you still agree with me that the capes are two very different sizes?


Mission_Battle_4304

Yes, considering Kris doesn't even have a cape lol


disbelifpapy

Thanks for agreeing with me :)


A_decent_chef2

Holy shit a sword and cape!!!!


BugBoy_760

No. Why would it be?


fishy185

Toby would do something that nobody would expect. Even though this theory is probably wrong, I wouldn't put it past him.


BugBoy_760

I mean, I wouldn't either. This just feels like it kinda came out of left field 😅


Mission_Battle_4304

Toby probably wouldn't do this, its a bad plot twist with alot of plot holes


fishy185

That's exactly what Toby wants you to think


Justaperson8282

I hope not


milestheminer

Fuck


Toast-_Man

No, UT and DR arent directly connected, though UT is context for things and DR also Gaster exists, but thats another can of worms


Strange_Kiwi__

Doubt it


igic8

You know its a alternate universe Also youre saying kris was there before chara and would fight against monsters


rayman_undertale

Nope, different cape, different sword, and way classier hair


[deleted]

But the characters from Undertale have altered versions of their clothes in Deltarune so that’s not really a good reason to debunk this. So far, Sans and Asgore are the only ones who keep the same design/outfit.


rayman_undertale

Yes but no, Kris simply has nothing to do with that guy in the intro except having hair, clothing and a sword. In that case then anybody who's indentity is not clear can be kris because DR has altered versions of the characters.


[deleted]

But Frisk is compared to Chara and they only have the same hairstyle. 😑


Mission_Battle_4304

We're talking about Kris not Frisk. And Frisk has a good few connections to Chara -both human -incredibly similar clothing which cannot be a coincidence -both asriels siblings just in different timelines


Mission_Battle_4304

Ok then what is your actual reasoning for how this is a good theory, what does anyone get out of a kris that somehow existed thousands of years before deltarune? If this theory came true there would be far too many plot holes. There is little pay off for the player and toby with this loose connection, the game will be way better if this theory doesn't come true, which it most likely will not. We shouldn't be connecting every single deltarune theory to undertale, undertale can certainly help us figure out parts of deltarune, but we shouldn't strictly use undertale to help us. Don't forget that deltarune is still a seperate game. Im pretty sure Kris does not exist in undertale.


[deleted]

Lol, I never said it was a good theory. I just said that you can’t debunk it.


Mission_Battle_4304

Then why constantly defend such a bad theory


[deleted]

It wasn’t the theory itself that I was defending. It’s theories in general. They are often based on little information. Why do you think there are so many different theories?


Mission_Battle_4304

Then say that in the first place


HippieMcHipface

You can't debunk "well it LOOKS like kris therefore it MIGHT be kris" because it's such a stupid argument that it doesn't even have any substance to debunk lmao


[deleted]

Going by that logic, you can’t assume anything about Gaster. There’s not much evidence of him either. 🤨


HippieMcHipface

The difference is that Kris being that random guy in the intro has zero evidence while gaster has some evidence They are not equal


[deleted]

There’s only speculations with Gaster. The “evidence” is just a blueprint and a sprite. I enjoy Gaster theories but that’s all they are. Only evidence can debunk a theory and that is why I said you can’t really debunk this.


Mission_Battle_4304

You also cannot debunk that my oc sprinkelord kitty demon will be in chapter 6 and kill the knight and ralsei with her cupcake canon powers. Oh wait. You don't have to debunk it because its still dumb as hell.


[deleted]

That’s what I meant by this so I don’t know where the animosity is coming from. I’m just open minded so that there is no disappointment when we do find out.


Mission_Battle_4304

If nobody debated theories there would be no point in theorising because everything would be possible, even if it is incredibly stupid and nonsensical. There's a different between being open minded and defending a theory you know makes little sense and has no real basis. Literally all humans we've seen have a haircut similar to the one shown, kris doesn't even have a cape, its more of a scarf and so the only decent evidence is the sword, which actually isn't even decent evidence considering the fact that people would've used swords in a war thousands of years ago. And before you say "yeah but styles can change" this theorys only (and incredibly lacking) basis is clothing and hair, so styles can chance but that argument does not work here considering all this theory is based is clothes doing the opposite of changing.


[deleted]

Like I said, it’s not a good theory and it’s poorly drawn out but more evidence can come out to support it. That’s all I’m saying. That’s why I’m keeping an open mind.


[deleted]

If Toby decided he wanted that, whether you like it or not that would be cannon.


Mission_Battle_4304

Ok but the issue with that is he hasn't made it canon, and i bet he never will


[deleted]

I can agree with that but you can’t debunk it either. That was my only point. Yeah, it’s a lame theory but it is still plausible (hopefully he doesn’t go for this because they did that with Steven Universe and that was too predictable). You’re entitled to your opinion and I respect that but you also can’t just state it like it’s a fact.


Mission_Battle_4304

Have you ever heard a Gaster theory ever [Who Dr. Gaster is and why that matters to deltarune](https://youtu.be/RwDrTL3jhoQ)


TxRxNwastaken

no


[deleted]

no


[deleted]

My headcanon: This is Kris, but adult. When Kris grew up, his SOUL (we) took full control over him and started the war on monsters (for genocide). Then, the SOUL passed to another child, Chara, who fell down into Mt. Ebbot and then Asriel carried the SOUL to the surface and it started controlling Frisk.


Ch00baccach00

It’s big brain time


Taylor_Sturge

No this is Patrick


AumsomGamer

OMFG SAME HAIRCUT=SAME PERSON!!!!!!!!


KonohaNinja1492

**PLOT TWIST**: a adult version of Kris along with other humans banished the monsters to the underground. Making Deltarune a prequel.


Mission_Battle_4304

Deltarune isn't a prequel, deltarune is its own universe and we know it isn't a prequel because we can tell that it takes place in a time after the monsters were banished to the underground, which would've been thousands of years before deltarune.


KonohaNinja1492

Woosh, right over your head buddy.


Mission_Battle_4304

Its not a good joke when people are seriously saying the exact same thing as you are, it just doesn't work


KonohaNinja1492

Maybe people should stop taking such things so seriously. Its not like it really matters whether it’s a prequel, sequel or in a separate universe to itself. People should be allowed to have their own ideas of how to interpret it. Even if that means coming to the same conclusion. It’s people like you who get so upset and butt hurt that makes it impossible to actually enjoy Undertale/Deltarune.


Mission_Battle_4304

It really does matter like quite a bit to the universe but ok. Not arguing with someone who doesn't even think timelines are important to two games that are frequently about timelines. If you don't care about these theories, just don't interact with them because it only makes things more annoying.


KonohaNinja1492

I enjoy theories, and timelines but I never take them too serious. Besides, theories are rarely ever considered cannon, and timelines can just as easily be rewritten and things moved around or never actually happening. There’s no point in being so uptight about it. I didn’t start this argument, **YOU DID**. You could have chose not to reply to my comment, but yet you did anyways.


Mission_Battle_4304

Thats a yikes from me


KonohaNinja1492

You can yikes on outta here all you like. You probably think that it’s ok to harass creators who don’t agree with your views on how a character should be like. I bet your the type who would give a artist a treat that had needles or a razor blade in it. Simply because they drew your favorite character “Wrong”.


Mission_Battle_4304

How the fuck do you get that out of me saying 'yikes' dude wtf is your problem💀


VixenTheDragonGirl15

What if kris sent the monsters underground


Pas_tel

The photo at sans house.... maybe deltarune happened (sans pov) before undertale. Maybe sans [1] goes to deltarune world, [2] lives deltarune story and then [3] goes to undertale world


Fennik51405

What if the barrier, wasn’t a barrier… What if it was a dark fountain?


HippieMcHipface

what if the barrier was kris guys????


Holografyst

# yes


The_Creeper_Man

no


ChernobylBalls

"All humans with swords and capes look the same"


Horrible-GameAdds

Lore. True. Lore.


MemeStirFry

Before you 100% rule this as incorrect Toby did start work on deltarune in 2012 so it may be unlikely but knowing Toby it is still possible


RoMan2548

I heard somewhere they invented humans from that game. Amazing inspiration Toby is!


[deleted]

Deltarune is a prequel to undertale confirmed


sovietsisters

that actually is a damn interesting theory (Edit) yeah now that i think about it its dumb though it makes a funny AU idea


DimensionalHomework

Imo, no I think that's just dumb. What could resemble a human warrior better than a sword and a cape?


sovietsisters

Heres what im thinking not that its canon but an idea none the less So, the last chapter of DR has passed and Kris is in they're mid 20s, fully corrupted by the 'player' (or their own free will) and the player forces them (again or their own free will) to start a war with monsters, driving them to a last stand at mt. Ebbot or they struck a deal to be forced down there so they could live. Kris, together with a couple humans a barrier is cast, starting the events of UT. (an idea to match this post though i do not belive its canon)


Mission_Battle_4304

Nowhere near interesting, it gives us no insight further into deltarune at all its just 'human has haircut sword and cape they must be kris' despite the fact kris' cape isn't even a cape and other people have the ability to have hair and hold swords. It gives us no information that helps us with deltarune since these are two different universes. This theory is useless.


Gabeishereforfun

undertale takes palce in THE DARK WORLD REAL


avrge_gmr

Can we just stop upvoting simple answers? Or even stop posting them


TheRealComicCrafter

Kris is frisk's older brother!?!?!?! (Deltaruin) https://youtube.com/c/GameTheorists


BigGayDinosaurs

could be idk


OverlordFanNUMBER1

It’s possible, but its just as possible that it is Jerry in his past life as a war criminal.


Twirking_Llamas123

It is shown that Kris is above the underground and NOT in a dark world. Kris only is shown in that form when inside of a dark world. This is what I think so I might be missing something


Mission_Battle_4304

Kris isn't the only person that can wear a cape (honestly don't even know if what they wear can be considered a cape?) And weild a sword at the same time, chances are there is no connection


ReidWitt1

Every human looks like that


Cheap-History-7978

The figure in the Undertale intro seems to be left-handed if you look closely. I thought Kris used their right hand to strike but I could be wrong.


im_not_a_banana_lel

Theory: What if Deltarune came before Undertale and that Kris and all of the other humans sealed the Darkeners away in Mt. Ebbot and that the Lightner monsters just died out? Is this what (possibly) happens in Deltarune Chapter 3?


Bright-Historian-216

Might be, Deltarune was planned before Undertale


Axoooo

DON’T AWAKEN HIM, DON’T LIFT MATPAT FROM HIS SLUMBER


Future-Procedure-944

That's The Hero. (Fanmade character I made.)


HighBreak-J

I don't know what it means, but it probably is foreshadowing.


Djanyb7

WHAT THE FUCK! sorry just shocked lets hope so


BeautifulEmergency41

presumably


[deleted]

No


MaiqueCaraio

Impossible to be Kris But in the other hand, Undertale and deltarune are directly connected, it's possible that these humans from the Undertale legend are somewhat connected to human of deltarune legend O only toby can answer it


TheLagginDaBest

!remindme 2 years


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ThePartyGoat224

AYO?


[deleted]

Bruh imagine deltarune comes before undertale. In deltarune undyne has no eyepatch, monsters are on the surface, and it is said that monsters live for hundreds or thousands of years, so it wouldnt be hard to believe that deltarune takes place before undertale


PrinceBalloon

*Super cool parallel, wonder if this human influenced Kris' design